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Speaker 1: They were taken by total surprise, and at that particular time,

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Speaker 1: it was the largest turkey poaching ring in the country.

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Speaker 1: On this second episode in our Secret Agent Man series,

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Speaker 1: we're going deep into the trenches of the dark Side

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Speaker 1: with undercover Ohio wildlife agent Artie Stewart to get the

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Speaker 1: full story on Operation Redbud, which at the time was

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Speaker 1: the largest turkey poaching sting in US history. RT is

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Speaker 1: gonna cruise us around in the poach coach while video

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Speaker 1: and over one hundred illegal turkey kills. How would you

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Speaker 1: like to see that on a VHS tape. He'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the incredible al hooting of his number one target

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Speaker 1: and take us right into the courtroom where defense lawyers

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Speaker 1: tried to discredit his character with accusations regarding drugs and alcohol. Well,

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Speaker 1: here from Darth Vader, Bill Clinton, and get the details

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Speaker 1: of the coordinated bust involving twenty six men and over

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Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy five wildlife violations in Morgan County, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: If you skip this story, you're just playing Yeller. I

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Speaker 1: really doubt you're gonna wanna miss this one. He was

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Speaker 1: laying on her back, leaning up against that tree. Pieces

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Speaker 1: you one of my best friends of their rare and

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Speaker 1: I'm going and I knew it was getting close to

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Speaker 1: the cop to the end, you know, and I'm thinking, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my name is Clay Nukelem. And this is the Bear

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Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search

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Speaker 1: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the

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Speaker 1: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land.

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Speaker 1: Presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged as

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Speaker 1: the places we explore. It was in the early nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties and the wild turkey hunting revolution of America was

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Speaker 1: in full tilt. As bird numbers skyrocketed, with one hundred

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Speaker 1: year peak population numbers across the country, Game call companies

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Speaker 1: seemed to be rising up out of the ground. Every

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Speaker 1: home had a VCR, and like never before, you could

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Speaker 1: rent in twenty four hour segments turkey hunting videos that

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Speaker 1: showed unprecedented excitement. America was hooked on turkey hunting, and

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Speaker 1: as the cultural value of the turkey went up, it

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Speaker 1: caused a quake, a philosophical rift, a division in rural

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Speaker 1: communities across the country, splitting fathers and sons, putting neighbors

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Speaker 1: against neighbors. It caught good men and bad men alike,

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Speaker 1: and many turned to the dark side, which is always

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Speaker 1: looking for recruits. Many became turkey hunting outlaws. It is

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Speaker 1: useless with all combined strength we can bring order to

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Speaker 1: the galaxy. These outlaws began to cheat the system, hunting

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Speaker 1: before season, trespassing, killing exorbitant numbers of turkeys. They weren't

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Speaker 1: just cheating others, they were cheating themselves, causing a disturbance

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Speaker 1: in the wildlife galaxy. There are varying degrees of lawbreakers,

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Speaker 1: and law enforcement is dedicated to stopping all levels. Our

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Speaker 1: beloved North American model of wildlife conservation only works if

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Speaker 1: we a the law. In Morgan County in southeast Ohio,

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Speaker 1: numerous informants had reported to the Ohio DNR about a

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Speaker 1: gang of turkey slaying ruffians who touted killing unbelievable numbers

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Speaker 1: of turkeys. They didn't know if the numbers were true,

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Speaker 1: but if they were, they had to be stopped. There

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Speaker 1: was only one thing left to do, and I'll give

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Speaker 1: you one guess who they sent into the ring of fire. RT. Stewart,

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Speaker 1: also known as Bob Thomas, the number one suspect in

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Speaker 1: the case, was believed to be killing over fifty turkeys

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Speaker 1: each spring, and the second suspect, who was thought to

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Speaker 1: be his protege, was probably killing just as many. In

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Speaker 1: the early spring of nineteen RT infiltrated this ring to

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Speaker 1: see if the informants information was correct. Little did he

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Speaker 1: know that the operation would have him living full time

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Speaker 1: undercover for fifteen months. They called it Operation Redbud and

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Speaker 1: RT was the lead man on the case. Here's how

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Speaker 1: it started. I want to make one note about this episode.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna hear a lot of bleeping. It was very

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Speaker 1: difficult in this interview to not use the actual names

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Speaker 1: of these guys, but we didn't want to put it

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Speaker 1: in the episode. So there's lots of bleeping. So Old

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Speaker 1: Phil Taylor had to do what he had to do.

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Speaker 1: Bear with us we were given. I was given two

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Speaker 1: individuals that was notorious for taking multiple turkeys, and the

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Speaker 1: intelligence provided to us was that it was a hung

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Speaker 1: out and was a manager of a bar and he

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Speaker 1: lived up over top of it. I drew around there.

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Speaker 1: I have a band at the time, and I had

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Speaker 1: it stuff for all kind of turkeys, props, spurs and

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Speaker 1: tales and had him hidden obviously. So I went there

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Speaker 1: one in there one afternoon and made a tactical air

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Speaker 1: right off the bat. But it helped in a sense.

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Speaker 1: I always try to go to if you got a

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Speaker 1: name of a local person that sent you to him,

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Speaker 1: that helped. If you just come out of blue knocked

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Speaker 1: on their door or something whatever, however he did your

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Speaker 1: approach and you just knocked on the door and say so,

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Speaker 1: you know, and introduced yourself, it's kind of suspicious. So

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Speaker 1: I'd always go to yard seal or stuff like that

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Speaker 1: in the local area. I'd even pitch you up pick hikers.

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Speaker 1: If somebody pitchhiking, you just get me a name with

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Speaker 1: somebody in that community. And if they knew him, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't even better, you know. But I would go to

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Speaker 1: these yard seals, get a name and ask him, you know,

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Speaker 1: get talking and they say, you know, something like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he lives right up there, you know, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's your name? So if I had a gold knock

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Speaker 1: on the door, I said, hey, Jim down there, what's

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Speaker 1: your name. He told me he's a big hunter, he

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Speaker 1: knew gym. Yeah, So that broke topping into a social connection,

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Speaker 1: even if it's a distant Yeah, this particular day that

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Speaker 1: how coincidental it could have ever been, I do not know.

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Speaker 1: But at the time I've seen an ad. A guy

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Speaker 1: in Mcconnellsville was selling tools. So I called him up,

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Speaker 1: told him I was gonna be down there and looking

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Speaker 1: replacing the hunt. I said, I've stopped by air and

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Speaker 1: look at your stuff. And he said, well, I can't

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Speaker 1: say afternoon, I'm gonna be busy, and I said, okay.

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Speaker 1: I said, well, maybe I'll stopped by some other time.

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Speaker 1: He said all right, and he said where are you from?

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Speaker 1: And I said, I'm from Marysville, you know, for a

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Speaker 1: portrayed to be from. So I go in this bar

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Speaker 1: and all the locals come through the back nbeknownst to me,

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Speaker 1: I come through the front tactical air, you know, because

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Speaker 1: everybody comes through the front. Everybody in the bar automatically

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Speaker 1: looks you know, you know, ain't from around here because

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Speaker 1: he's coming in the front door. That was a bad move.

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Speaker 1: But anyhow, so we're sitting there talking. I'm at the

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Speaker 1: end of the bar and I got a hat on,

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Speaker 1: got a turkey on it. Camouflage and it was a

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Speaker 1: bartending and we get to talking and uh, he was

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Speaker 1: very approachable. Now did you know this was your target? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I knew this was my target. He was easy to connected.

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Speaker 1: He said, to go buy something from that. I went

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Speaker 1: to the bar. I went to bright. I went to

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Speaker 1: the bar to hang out. That was my goal to

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Speaker 1: go there to hang out. Well, based on the information

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Speaker 1: he shared that day, I was pretty sure that we're

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Speaker 1: on the right track. And I used to teach it

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Speaker 1: Hawking College and we're not very far from Hawking College,

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Speaker 1: and I know some of them people from Morgan County

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Speaker 1: went to Hawking College. So here I am, you know,

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Speaker 1: knowing that there's allowed to be people there might know me. Well. Guests,

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Speaker 1: what the shift changes? Guy comes in and uh he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: he said, I know. You said your artis story and

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'm going, oh, my land, this is

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Speaker 1: in front of your target, guy target. This guy uses

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Speaker 1: your real name. First day bad and now I'm going no,

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Speaker 1: but I should Uh, I think you might be mixing

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Speaker 1: up somebody else. I said, was he handsome, had a

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Speaker 1: lot of money? And he goes name handsomebody wasn't didn't

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Speaker 1: ever much? What ain't me off, well, did you recognize

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Speaker 1: the guy? Okay, but I would. He knew who I was,

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Speaker 1: and he said you were a turkey bow hunt for

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Speaker 1: turkey and I did, yeah. And I used to teach

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Speaker 1: archery one of the things that taught. Apparently I hadn't

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Speaker 1: even archer class. But anyhow, the thing that saved me

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Speaker 1: that day was when I told that I said, my

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Speaker 1: name Bob Thomas, and this guy set beside me says,

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Speaker 1: you have a Marysville I want. Yeah, I said, I

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Speaker 1: talk to you on the phone today. You're donna look

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Speaker 1: at some tools. I said, yeah. I said, you told

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Speaker 1: me he was gonna be busy. Here you are you

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Speaker 1: drunk sitting in the barrow with it? Just it is perfect? Perfect?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how else? I mean? You know this guy

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Speaker 1: basically was a local confirmed I wasn't who the bartender

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Speaker 1: thought it Wow, at this talent. I had his stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, stuff might work out like that and it

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Speaker 1: and from that day on I was never questioned. Arties

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Speaker 1: deep Dives Undercover were full of wildly close calls with

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Speaker 1: resolutions that will leave you scratching your head pondering your philosophy.

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Speaker 1: On Quinci DNS. On this first meeting, with Target number two.

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Speaker 1: His fake identity was confirmed by a complete stranger, which

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Speaker 1: solidified his almost blown cover. The meeting with this guy

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Speaker 1: went so well that that very night they went groundhog

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Speaker 1: hunting together, and before you know it, a few mornings later,

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Speaker 1: Target number two invited r T or Bob Thomas as

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Speaker 1: he's known, to go turkey hunting, and it was long

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Speaker 1: before the season opener in Ohio. Operation Red Bud was on.

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Speaker 1: We go hunting that next morning and his raining. But

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Speaker 1: we're driving around road hunting as we're coming down this

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Speaker 1: road and we turned left and it's probably about fifteen

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Speaker 1: or twenty turkeys on the left hand side the route,

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Speaker 1: which means you've got to shoot time. We get to him.

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Speaker 1: Dad ran on my side road and he gives me

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Speaker 1: a gun to shoot him, shoot him. I just pulled up.

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Speaker 1: I aimed at one, but off of it, but the

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Speaker 1: overspray hit at one in the back, so I just

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Speaker 1: ant out with truck, went and got it and thrown

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Speaker 1: the back took all. You know. That was the only

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Speaker 1: time they ever killed anything illegal, really, and uh I

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Speaker 1: was in like flint oh Man, because he'd seen you

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Speaker 1: kill one right out of the truck and had it

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Speaker 1: had the estate on that try, and he would have

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Speaker 1: shot it, you know, but when he run across the road.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm supposed to be a poacher too, so

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Speaker 1: he was good. He handed it to me. What you

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Speaker 1: gotta do, You gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I shot it, killed it. That was the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the relationship right there. This was the only illegal animal

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Speaker 1: Art ever killed himself. And once you see how many

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Speaker 1: illegal hunts ARTI was on, you'll see how hard he

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Speaker 1: worked not to kill. He said. This was the beginning

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Speaker 1: of their relationship. If you remember, from the first episode

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Speaker 1: in the Secret Agent Man series, Art got extremely close

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Speaker 1: with one of the outlaws. This was him. This is

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Speaker 1: Target number two. Many of the outlaws RT chased. He

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Speaker 1: despised them because of their despicable actions and the wider

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Speaker 1: dis capability of their lives and character. He lived with

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Speaker 1: these folks and saw how they treated their families, their neighbors,

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Speaker 1: and strangers. But Target number two would prove to be different,

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Speaker 1: and later Urt would become so close to him that

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Speaker 1: he wished he could warn him that he was an

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Speaker 1: undercover agent. We also learned on episode one that this

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Speaker 1: is fairly common amongst undercover agents that they begin to

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Speaker 1: empathize with the people they're chasing, and hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to take a minute to bring up something to you.

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Speaker 1: On these episodes, I'm only able to cover a very

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Speaker 1: small section of Artie's career, and in this case, he's

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Speaker 1: basically busting a band of recreational turkey poachers. However, many

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Speaker 1: of his cases involved the commercialization of wildlife, involving the

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Speaker 1: illegal sell of enormous amounts of fish caught on Lake

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Speaker 1: Erie and the illegal selling of large quantities of wild

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Speaker 1: game meat to restaurants in Cincinnati. These are extremely serious

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Speaker 1: crimes that required extreme measures to bust these criminals. Don't

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Speaker 1: think for a second that these undercover stings were on

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Speaker 1: rinky dink wildlife violators. You've got to check out the

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Speaker 1: book about Urt called Poachers Were My Prey by Chip Grows.

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Speaker 1: Once Urt and the guys knew their leads were legit

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Speaker 1: and they had the makings of a case, RT rented

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Speaker 1: a residence and took up living full time in the community.

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Speaker 1: When you're that deep into these communities, did you were

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Speaker 1: you surprised at how much I legal activity was going

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Speaker 1: on or was it kind of isolated and there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of like law abiding people around. It was

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Speaker 1: just these like tight little groups, tight little group, a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of law abiding people that didn't

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Speaker 1: really like it, and they may have been some ones

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Speaker 1: that called in complaints. There was a lot of people

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Speaker 1: there that did not agree with water. They didn't know

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Speaker 1: that it was going on to a magnitude of that level,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure work, but they knew stuff was going on

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Speaker 1: even when it was some of them guys. When somebody

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Speaker 1: come rent, don't say that he don't like what we do.

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Speaker 1: So they knew that the society wasn't all four them.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they thought society was. Most of the society

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Speaker 1: was okay with what they were doing. That's a very

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Speaker 1: interesting point to consider, what is the socially acceptable amount

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Speaker 1: of law breaking in a nation, of region and a

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Speaker 1: group of friends in a family. It's really easy for

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Speaker 1: our doctrine to get challenged when we look at our

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Speaker 1: lives without a filter of justification. I think most of

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Speaker 1: us would say our goal is to abide by the law.

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Speaker 1: But do you roll through stop signs on country roads?

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Speaker 1: Do you drive seventy five in a seventy mile per

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Speaker 1: hour zone? Have you ever stept a single toe on

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Speaker 1: land you didn't have permission to be on. Every one

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Speaker 1: of us believes there is some gray in the law,

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Speaker 1: but there also has to be a clear black and

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Speaker 1: white section, and these guys were in the deep black.

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Speaker 1: Operation Redbud was originally designed to catch two men, and

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Speaker 1: at this point Urt has only made contact with one

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Speaker 1: of them, which is target number two. But the web

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Speaker 1: of criminal activity began to grow very quickly. This next

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Speaker 1: story shows that growth and all the different ways that

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Speaker 1: undercover work can get rooted out by the bad guys.

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Speaker 1: We was in there one night in the bar and

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Speaker 1: we ended up meeting two individuals. They just talked about

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Speaker 1: shooting the deer the night before. And now I've never

259
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Speaker 1: met him before, never seen him before, so they said

260
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Speaker 1: they just come from the butcher shop picking it up.

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Speaker 1: So we get to talking to him and then we

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Speaker 1: told him we know been hunting with do you know? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, where's this big deer at And he sits

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Speaker 1: out the back of truck. So we went out there

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Speaker 1: and confirmed it. You know, they had they post one

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Speaker 1: the night before. Well good, you know. A couple of

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Speaker 1: days later we was in there and he was bragging

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Speaker 1: about how good he could shoot the one guy out

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Speaker 1: law and the other guy was bragging a boy him too. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're so good, let's go. I'll drive. Got a gain,

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Speaker 1: you got one, so give us two twenty swift. I

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Speaker 1: think it was with one bullet the ware. We go,

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Speaker 1: we fight here and he loses the bullet and we're

274
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Speaker 1: in the process, I'm laughing at this guy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm dying leaving and you got He said, I'm want

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Speaker 1: to knock you in the head when I slewer up.

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Speaker 1: You know it was this, It's always on videotape. And

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Speaker 1: he ends up killing a deer, so that now we're

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Speaker 1: in good with these guys. And then it just mushroom

280
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Speaker 1: there with other people bid involved, it just mushrooms. But

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Speaker 1: now it really got interested. We're in the bar the

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Speaker 1: next night. These two guys that we were out with

283
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Speaker 1: the night before are complaining that somebody called into the

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Speaker 1: game ward and turned to me in and that and

285
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Speaker 1: their questioning me and my buddy. Oh, thinking y'all turned

286
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Speaker 1: them in. This is a serious conferenation. This is serious.

287
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Speaker 1: We know we're the only ones that was with him. Yeah,

288
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Speaker 1: you know, but y'all hadn't done it and we have

289
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Speaker 1: done the news to us too. Yeah. Well, this again

290
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: is how things worked. I had contacted my supervisor and

291
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Speaker 1: of him. The names of these individuals are supervisor context

292
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Speaker 1: the radio room to get backgrounds on them. What that

293
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Speaker 1: particular time, Our radio room just had a divider between

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Speaker 1: the division and Wildlife Parks and sees that nature and

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Speaker 1: Department of Transportation. What do you call? Right, These guys

296
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Speaker 1: had a relative or kin folk that worked for the

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Speaker 1: Department of Transportation. They heard us on our radios running

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Speaker 1: these guys information. Wow, they heard you. No, No, they

299
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Speaker 1: heard our supervisor because you called in. I called a

300
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Speaker 1: supervisor and supervisor does that. And they were running it

301
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Speaker 1: over the radio, which was a private conversation because he's

302
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Speaker 1: on the telephone. But this guy in the next booth

303
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Speaker 1: could hear and he knows it. He calls mourns. It

304
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Speaker 1: just shows you how tight these communities are. Yes, absolutely,

305
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Speaker 1: And they told us that that we got a friend

306
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Speaker 1: that works for the Department Transportation. They have a running

307
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Speaker 1: our names today and well on the person we've been

308
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Speaker 1: with is you. Maybe they're talking about the night you

309
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,160
Speaker 1: shot the dyer before did you do anything that night?

310
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Speaker 1: We thought about that too. I said, well, it's probably

311
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Speaker 1: where it comes from. You know, what was the able

312
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Speaker 1: to convince him? What wasn't us? It was it was

313
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: could have shot the whole thing right down to two

314
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 1: right there. A ground nesting bird can find uncountable ways

315
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Speaker 1: to die, and and undercover operation it's kind of the

316
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 1: same way. It's like a little baby quail navigating the drought, disease,

317
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,200
Speaker 1: coyotes and hawks. There's a thousand ways to die, even

318
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Speaker 1: fescue invasion. As a timeline update, RT spends the spring

319
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Speaker 1: of n hunting with Target number two while gathering an

320
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Speaker 1: assortment of other outlaws into the operation. All of these

321
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Speaker 1: events he's filming in the poach coach, his four wheel

322
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Speaker 1: drive undercover van, and the hidden cameras on his person.

323
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Speaker 1: Later they'd learned that target number two was killing this

324
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Speaker 1: many turkeys. Target number one, well, RT was playing his

325
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: cards conservatively, and the whole spring of ninety five he

326
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 1: never even met Target number one. He didn't want to

327
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Speaker 1: push it. So RT goes through the next eleven months

328
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Speaker 1: hanging out with Target number two until the late winner

329
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Speaker 1: of n when in February, Target number two stay with

330
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Speaker 1: me finally introduces Bob Thomas RT to target number one.

331
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Speaker 1: Finally we get to to come on, well what me

332
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 1: till he go up to his house my land. He

333
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: that he's got turkey tails and stuff hanging everywhere everywhere,

334
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 1: and then in everything, I always consider myself be a

335
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 1: good turkey hunter in a pretty decent car. But I

336
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: had to act like I didn't know what I was

337
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 1: doing that much, you know, I couldn't be better than them. Yeah,

338
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 1: so obviously I put him on a pedestal right off

339
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 1: the bat, you know, with all this stuff. So he said,

340
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: what do you do on Tuesday? Nothing, Let's go hunt.

341
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 1: So you came in and you just you just kind

342
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: of doted on him and just put the charm on.

343
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 1: And I've been hanging with for a year and he's like,

344
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 1: I want to take you hunting. Yeah, two days after

345
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 1: I met him with hunt. Do you find a lot

346
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: of a lot of these guys are pretty inviting to

347
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 1: have you come hunt with him? I think so after

348
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: you meet a certain criteria, after you after you confirm

349
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 1: or convince who you really are. Yeah, it takes the

350
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: fear away from him. And I think back then they

351
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 1: had no idea that the Division Wildlife even had an

352
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: under cover unit or cover people. With RT being as

353
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: instinctively good as he was, and the newness of the

354
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: task force in Ohio, these guys were like deer in

355
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: the spotlight, poaching pun intended. You can only imagine, after

356
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Speaker 1: nearly a year of trying to meet target number one,

357
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: how exciting it must have been to meet this guy

358
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 1: and would two days be hunting with him. Let the

359
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 1: good times in the v HS tapes role. So they

360
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: invited me to eventually to go to West Virginia. So

361
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: we went out the next back up. We went out

362
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Speaker 1: the next morning. Killed a turkey. He killed one. He

363
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: killed Were you sitting right beside him? Yeah? Video at

364
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: audio and I had a video. I had a hidden

365
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: video in my turkey best it only had maybe an

366
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: hour of battery time. I still got the best. And

367
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: I had a spatial compartment back there, and that's where

368
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: I carry my recorder. And then I had a camera here,

369
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: so if I took my pot put my hand in

370
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: my pocket, I can pretty much direct wherever at camera

371
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: wanted to go. Say. But then I also later on

372
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: started carrying a little eight millimeter camera for after the

373
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Speaker 1: with it, not during the event. So every morning when

374
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Speaker 1: we go hunting. We hunted just about every morning after

375
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Speaker 1: I met him. I'd always have to go have me

376
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Speaker 1: a bowel movement, okay, And that was went because if

377
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: I turned it on before I went hunting, time to

378
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: get out there where that everything is going on in

379
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: your battery life, and your machine would go dead. I

380
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't get nothing. So I'd wait till we get to

381
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: the woods, and I'd always have to go have about

382
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: movement from during that time, man, I would turn on

383
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: the Uh, so that way I do. I had a

384
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: good hour working. Yeah, so you need to kill a

385
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: turkey within an hour, yeah, and normally we did. Normally

386
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 1: we did. Really, so how many turkeys did you film

387
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: him killing or were you with him when he killed

388
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: in that time span from February till we shut it down,

389
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: maybe forty to sixty. Really, you were there forty to

390
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: sixty illegal kills with this target individual. And it's all preseason.

391
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: These guys are getting a big head start. And this

392
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: is only like in two or three townships. So you

393
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: take guys that's waiting for turkey season legitimately, and you

394
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: go out there to where you think you got some turkeys,

395
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: and you go out there and you ain't got nothing.

396
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: We don't wipe them out. Yeah, that's a lot of

397
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: turkeys you take out too, or three township? What techniques

398
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: did this guy used to not get caught? Like, did

399
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: he did he hide guns in the woods? Did he

400
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: have people drop him off? Was or did he just

401
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: drive out in park and go turkey hunting and then

402
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: come back and throw the bird in the truck and

403
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: go home above pretty much all the bow depending on

404
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 1: our location, pretty much all the boa. We but we

405
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: never did hide a gun in the woods and pick

406
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: it up, you know, or anything like yet. But uh,

407
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: we go out and call and then soon we shot,

408
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: you know, we'd grab it and take off, you know.

409
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: So so there was no elaborate ruse of how they

410
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: were killing that many turkeys. They just kind of way

411
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: to drive rude and hit the alcohol man he could

412
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: call alcohol. He al with mouth, Yeah, do you out

413
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: with your mouth? I can't do that, but he could. Man,

414
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: it was it was good. I was first more in

415
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: the herd. I was like, holy, holy, it's really absolutely.

416
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: I have a deep, deep theory that uh, usually if

417
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: anybody can barrod alcohol real good, they're probably gonna be

418
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: a really good turkey hunter. I want to clarify here

419
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: you can be a good turkey hunter without having a

420
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: good natural voice. Al hoot. But I've never met someone

421
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: with a great hoot that wasn't a good turkey hunter.

422
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: And this is important bear grease stuff from episode number two.

423
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: I think we probably need to have a national bear

424
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: grease virtual owl hooting contests. I might work on that.

425
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: I was interested in learning more about this Target number one.

426
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: I pride as much out of our tea as I could,

427
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: and later art would tell me that this guy was

428
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: suspected in some other very serious, non related wildlife crimes,

429
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: stuff that isn't worthy of mention on a classic program

430
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: like this one. The point is these guys were pretty rough,

431
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: and I'd like to highlight the distinction between Target one

432
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: and two. Artie spoke highly of the way Target number

433
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: two treated his family, his work ethic, in his general

434
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: demeanor towards people. He was just misguided when it came

435
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: to game laws. But here's RT talking about Target one.

436
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: He was very good at what he did calling. He

437
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: was excellent caller, and he in turkeys ah my, but

438
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: al hoot, and he was I was very impressed and

439
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: and following him through the woods. I was impressed. He

440
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't walk on the trail. You know how you walk

441
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: down trails. You know, he wouldn't walk on the trail.

442
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: It was always off to the off in the brush.

443
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: That ain't stop because animals walk down him trail sometime.

444
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 1: But if you're walking off in the bush, you know,

445
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: not on them trail, you're gonna you know, you won't

446
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: be spotted or run into somebody. You can hide. There's

447
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: a lot of factors that he was had a lot

448
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: of good wood since which impressed me. But he had

449
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: no knowledge of how to how I used to do

450
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: tax drmy work back in the day in the seventies,

451
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: and I mount I would skin these turkeys out to

452
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: make rugs, and he liked that. You know, RT was

453
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: the taxidermist too. Man that and the poach coach. He'd

454
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: have been a good friend to have around. I wanted

455
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: to ask RT about one of the most bizarre parts

456
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: of these stories. On most cases, he openly carried video

457
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: camera and filmed their illegal hunts, and these criminals were

458
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: okay with it. Our t must have been a wizard. Oddly,

459
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: Brent Reeves initially introduced himself to me offering his services

460
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: as a professional videographer. That is a true story. For years,

461
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Brent filmed me when I was doing stuff for Bare

462
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: Hunting magazine, and I've always been suspicious of it, and

463
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: those overalls there's a lot of room in there for

464
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: hidden cameras. Sometimes it's the biggest secrets are hidden in

465
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: plain sight. You got these guys to trust you so

466
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: much that you were like, hey, let's make a video.

467
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: Because that was in the nineties, was when people started

468
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: getting affordable home video cameras and people were starting to

469
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: film hunts, and everybody was wanting to film their hunt.

470
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: And so here you are, undercover wildlife agent and you're like, hey, well,

471
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: what I mean. How I got him to do that

472
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: was I had him filmed me for you know what

473
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I mean filming the hunt today. But you

474
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: do the filming, and if I went my way, boy,

475
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I want to I want to be in front of

476
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: the camera, you know, which is that what I wanted?

477
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: You know. So we've done this several times, but on

478
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: this particular day, we always narrated her hunt and he

479
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: was talking about it. He said, said, we had to

480
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 1: do Kiki run today because we bust them up in

481
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: February or early March, and then we call him back.

482
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: We had these two turkeys. News, yeah, we got to

483
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: and he holds them. I think it's both Jake's. He's

484
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: holding them both up, and he said, just get out

485
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: of here for the game ward to come right on.

486
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, I think, and I'm thinking, buddy, you ain't

487
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: got no idea. Archie said in the first episode that

488
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: chasing meant for this period of his life replaced his

489
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: love of chasing animals. It was stuff like this that

490
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: had to be a major dopamine drop. He knew that

491
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: in court this type of evidence would be unbeatable. All

492
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: he needed now was a lot more of it, and

493
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: oh would he ever get it? Here's an interesting part

494
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: of Arties ruse. What about his choice of weapon. We

495
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: continued hunting, and I hunted with a twenty two rifle.

496
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: And my excuse for that one. I had a ten

497
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: twenty two ruger with a scoope on him. And they said,

498
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: what come you use that? And I said, COVI, don't

499
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: crack very loud, and I said, got scoop on and

500
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: I'll shoot him in hidden. I'll be like a shotgun. Oh, yeah,

501
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: I never thought about that. But it also helped me

502
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: miss Ethan, which I did because you you, you hunt

503
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: with these guys for too long. You don't miss many

504
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: birds with a shotgun. No, no, And if a bird

505
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: comes in on your side, you know, shoot it. If

506
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: it comes in on my side and I don't shoot

507
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: at it, something wrong with the shot gun. Your chance

508
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: of hitting that birder if you miss that bird, you

509
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: know more than once, that's uh, It's like, why is

510
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: this guy missing this? Right exactly? So I used the

511
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: torn two for that purpose. Was if I missed, wasn't

512
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: that hard to explain? And I did miss too the time,

513
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: but they never questioned me missing. It gave him a

514
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: good excuse to miss. That's really pretty brilliant. And that's

515
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: interesting because it sure seems like Brent Reeves misses a

516
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: lot too. Anyway, the old twenty two and the twenty

517
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: two mag used to be I don't know if it

518
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: is anymore the poaching weapon of choice back in the day,

519
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: so Urt was even breaking the law by the type

520
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: of gun he was using to kill the legal turkeys. Man.

521
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: This dude was a bad poacher. But let's carry on

522
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: with Operation Red Bud, I have a question for it.

523
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: Do poachers get jealous? So you you hunt with him

524
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: for as many as forty two sixty illegal hunts over

525
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: in one spring from February twill turkey se I mean,

526
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: y'all hunted every day then, and so you were just

527
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: his buddy, You were his running around with. How did

528
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: that hurt his feelings? I don't think so. Now I'd

529
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 1: go back with him everyone once in a while with him,

530
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: but I mean, not hang out. Won't you getting jealous? Didn't?

531
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: It was the mentor as well, So it was kind

532
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: of cool that you were hunting with the guy and

533
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: y'all both had this friend and we all had Yeah,

534
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: and and I hung out with which I did not

535
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: hang out with. I hung out with in a whole

536
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: different type of relationship. Again, Artie is emphasizing that he

537
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: didn't just hang out much with Target one, but his

538
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: relationship with Target two was different and more personal. So

539
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: now Artie has let's just say, around fifty documented illegal

540
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: turkey kills with target number one and another fifty plus

541
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: with Target number two. So what's he gonna do? Now?

542
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: They've got to shut these guys down. And I want

543
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: to hear about the actual bust. You now have all

544
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: this evidence, you got video, you got your testimony against

545
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: the guy, You got everything against this target subject. And

546
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: what what what happens? Now? We have enough on everybody,

547
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: including a whole lot more than what we had anticipated.

548
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: Now we now have enough on this guy. We need

549
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: to shut her down and keep things from getting carried away.

550
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: We can't. We cannot let it go another year as

551
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: much stuff as they're killing. And we were able to

552
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: justify to extending it to the following spring. We were

553
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: we accomplished our goal. We have him, we have good

554
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: testament or good evidence. Time to take him down. I

555
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: think they ended up taking him down like um first

556
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: of June, right after Turkey Sha, you know May Turkey.

557
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: They had a oh man, I think they had like

558
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 1: forty or sixty game wardens involved in it. Really, So

559
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: tell me about the actual bust. What did they do? Well,

560
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: we have a command center and they call you in

561
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: the uniform personnel. I don't I'm not involved. I'm out

562
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: of the picture. But I'm at a command center in

563
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: case they have questions in regards to the search warrants

564
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: and things that nature. So they send out notication for

565
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: all the uniform personnel to come to a certain location

566
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: at a certain time, not knowing what they're getting into,

567
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: and uh, the day before, that's when we give them

568
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: the breakdown on what we've been doing. What's going on.

569
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: This is the first time you've broken cover to these

570
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: guys and you say, you say, hey, I've been undercovered

571
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: with this guy for two years. We have this evidence.

572
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: He's killing these turkeys, that's where he lives, that's who

573
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: he is. And now does does the bust have to

574
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: be correspond Like, if you're gonna bust one guy, you

575
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: gotta bust another guy at the same time. Everything has

576
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: to be coordinated. So they had a team, you know,

577
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: the search team, recording team, and he about each team

578
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 1: had five to six guys on him, and at seven

579
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: thirty a m. It was coordinated. That was seven a m.

580
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: That's when everybody knocked on the door at the same time.

581
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: During those search warrants, they would get phone calls from

582
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: other guys and our eyes wouldout answer the phone and

583
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: then say, hey, the keyboardon is here. Yeah, we know

584
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: we're here. So our game wardens, our officers was in

585
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: the house and they would answer the phone and so

586
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: would would these wildlife poachers usually I guess they would

587
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: give up without a fighter, and it would it would

588
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: just be kind of they were busted. Uh, Yeah, they

589
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: were taken. They were taken by total surprise. Probably. I

590
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: think we ended up the resting twenty six that day people.

591
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: That's a major it was, and at that particular time,

592
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: it was the largest turkey poaching ring in the country

593
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: at that time. I don't know what's happened since. But yeah,

594
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: we even had H. J. H the editor of National

595
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation. He come up went on the raid

596
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: with them, did he really? So? They told him about

597
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: the raid before. They didn't tell him about it till

598
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: that day, but they invited him up that we're going

599
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: to have a major turkey hunting event. So they were

600
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: wanting to make a national spectacle and you were the

601
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: point man. Man, how many turkeys do you think we're

602
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: killed in that web of twenty six men people? I

603
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know if it's all men as all men turkeys

604
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: and deer, I don't know. I'm just guessing. I know

605
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: I was involved in at least a hundred just in

606
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: two spring with two people. There are other undercover guys

607
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: working different people. No, well, I was working on them all.

608
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: But that's why I say it mushroom. From the spring

609
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: of one of those to the spring of the following year,

610
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: I had a whole season there, a whole year to

611
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: get hooked up with everybody else in the poaching wagon.

612
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: You were just, yeah, yeah, it was just it was

613
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: very difficult to keep it all together. Sometimes. Well, I

614
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: couldn't do it today, but back in the time, I

615
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: could look at a shotgun. You hand me shotgun and

616
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: look at it. I can remember that serial number. I'd

617
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: write it the mud to someplace if I needed to

618
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: go back later to day or next day or whatever,

619
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, the night or whatever. Again, I've wrote it

620
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: into different numbers on different spots in the dust on

621
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: my van. Once I wrote it down, I don't have

622
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: to remember no more. I go to something else. In

623
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: cred Edible talk about falling into a brood of vipers.

624
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: I have no mercy for intentional wildlife violators taking excess game,

625
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: and RT didn't either. However, remember that Art is a human,

626
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: and he's deep undercover interacting with these guys their families,

627
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: and he's actually developed some respect for Target two outside

628
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: of his poaching. I want to ask Artie a question,

629
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: and this shows you just how personal things had gotten.

630
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: So what if, what does it feel like to work

631
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: on something that intimately getting involved in these people's lives

632
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: and then seeing them all busted. I couldn't sleep the

633
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: night before knowing that in the morning his I know

634
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: what his future is. It was difficult to just know that,

635
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, if it's been for a year and a half. Here,

636
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: I've been hanging out with a buddy of mine that, uh,

637
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: he's going to jail on the morning, and it was

638
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: it was difficult. One was in Western and him and

639
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: I was hunting beautiful, Born and beautiful, probably about nine

640
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: thirty or ten o'clock to ageting. Some was up someone

641
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: just shining too was kind of slow. So I had

642
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: a big globe tree there and he was laying on

643
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: her back, leaning up against that tree, and he'd land

644
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: on that side and the land on this side. And

645
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: he says, you are the best things happened to me

646
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: in years. You're one of the best friends I've ever had.

647
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: And now I'm going And I knew it was getting

648
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: close to the coming to the end, you know, and

649
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, man, So there again, I think about telling

650
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: him it was difficult on that particular case, and that

651
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: was unusual though for your career to be that close

652
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: to somebody. Never was that close to nobody. Ever, You're

653
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: one of the best friends I've ever had, he said.

654
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: That's tough, especially when you know it's a lie, or

655
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: at least mostly a lie. RTI said, he and this

656
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: guy could have been friends in real life, but it

657
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: was real life for this other guy. I want to

658
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: step into one of the most interesting parts of this story,

659
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: the trial, and I'd like to say this overall project

660
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: was incredible work by RT and the whole team at

661
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: the Ohio d n R. However, inside the judicial system,

662
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: catching people doing a crime and convicting them are often

663
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: two different things. All these guys now have to go

664
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: to court and they're innocent until proven guilty. Oh man,

665
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: this is gonna be fun. And our boy RT is

666
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: the pivotal witness on the stand. What happened to these

667
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: guys so that the main target we took him. Yeah,

668
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: we took him down, and they all play not guilty,

669
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: which is normal. But then they found motion for discovery,

670
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: which is part of the system. I'm not sure if

671
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: you know what the courts systems are. You know your

672
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: initial periance. I found plead guildy not guilty. Whatever, plead

673
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: not guilty to gain an attorney. Attorney called foul's emotion

674
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 1: for discovery. That entitles them to know what we have.

675
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: That's when we present all the video tapes and to them,

676
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: not in court, but just like to their attorney. But

677
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: we wouldn't let them have the tapes. They were permitted

678
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: to view the tapes with the prosecutor, not with the clients,

679
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: not with anybody else, and they weren't allowed to have

680
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: the tapes. So once they've seen all these tapes and

681
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: all this evidence, they're wanting to make deals. But one

682
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: guy pleads not guilty and wants to go to trial.

683
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: So here we go to trial. By that time they

684
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: make me cut my hair I had. I looked like

685
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: ZIZI talk. They called me the missing link when it's

686
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: working with them because I'm pretty nasty and uh, I

687
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: never will forget it. When I walked in, I'd shaved

688
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: up and had suit and tie on everything. I walked

689
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: in and walked right basta defending his attorney, and I

690
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: heard him say is that him? And he looked and

691
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: I heard him saying, I don't know I was cleaned

692
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 1: up that much. He wasn't sure. He didn't even recognize

693
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: this is is somebody that he was one of them that

694
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: telling me about that we his friend worked for the

695
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: Department of Transportation. Yeah, I hung out. He didn't recognize

696
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: in court and you had to testify, you have to

697
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: speak someone the courts witness staff radar. So your covers

698
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: and all twenty five of them were standing in the

699
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: courtroom and chairs behind here. Oh wow, so now everybody

700
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: knows your whole two years being undercover with these guys

701
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: is busted. Boy, that's an awkward feeling. I bet there

702
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: was on one side and we had throughout the throughout

703
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: the courtroom. There was probably a dozen officers. Are our

704
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: officers in there, and all the bad guys were on

705
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: the left side and all the good guys are on

706
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: the right. But we had officers scattered out because we

707
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: didn't know what was you know, we didn't what would

708
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: transpar there. You remember all those hunting videos our teammate, Well,

709
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: it's time for their debut. Get the popcorn out because

710
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: the judge and jury are about to watch them. You know,

711
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: that's when the cross cure, you know, had his opportunity

712
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: to do examine and he's that's when he started presenting

713
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: some of these videos to the jury. And this is

714
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: the first time some of their clients, some of these

715
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: guys had seen the video and they'd heard about him,

716
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: but they had not seen him. I was watching the video.

717
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: Whenever I was watching the video of some of this stuff,

718
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 1: it was taking place on the client. I can see

719
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: them talking to each other like we're screwed. So he

720
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: had a big name, and he was a big timber

721
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: cutter and had a big name in that county. He

722
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: thought that and this is what the prosecutor thought or

723
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: said to us, was that he thought that he had

724
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: such a name that the people in that community do

725
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: you know we had it was socially accepted of what

726
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: they did, and they would they would they would not

727
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: find him guilty, really did. He didn't think the jury

728
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: would find hilty. That's why he went to court. Actually

729
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: he didn't think the jury. But this is like a

730
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: wealthy guy and his family, his family was his family.

731
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: He was. They actually thought that they could discredit me

732
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: and thought that the jury would find them not guilty,

733
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: even though they did commit some of this stuff. Unfortunately,

734
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: having a big name often goes a long way in

735
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: jury trials and small communities, or sometimes you don't even

736
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: have to have a jury. Do you remember from episode

737
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: three of bear Grease, when James Lawrence was working as

738
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: a game warden and he arrested the county judge's son

739
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: Spotlight and Deer while drunk, and the guy got off

740
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: scott free. James couldn't take the silver spoon politics, and

741
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: it ended up being what pushed him away from the job. Anyway,

742
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: James and I are still a little bit upset about that.

743
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Back to our t though, talk about a tense situation.

744
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what is going through these guys minds

745
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: seeing RT the wild man poacher who drove the poach

746
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: coach now on the stands shaven with a suit and

747
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: tie on, showing these hunting videos. It's probably what a

748
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: buck there feels like when you're at full drawing grunt

749
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: stop him in the string drops. All these guys were thinking,

750
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: old man, we're in trouble now, and this first court

751
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: case would decide the outcome in the future of all

752
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: these other guys too. This one was big, and the

753
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: defendants lawyers were gonna try to discredit r. T in

754
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: his character. All I've got to say is good luck

755
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: with that. And hey, as a slight warning, there are

756
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: some drug and alcohol references in this next section. So

757
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: they had me on witness stand and they's asking me

758
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: all clinic and they had a jury, had a jury.

759
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: They said, uh, we'll give you an example. Some of

760
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: the questions was did you ever buy my client alcohol? Yes, sir?

761
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: Why did you buy him alcohol? Said? Well, might turn

762
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: to buy you know, And I'm looking over at them guys,

763
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: some of the guys on those things, Well that makes sense,

764
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm saying. I mean, the

765
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, why is that you buy him alcoholis well,

766
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: might turn them by. He said, uh, you ever smoke

767
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: dope with my client? Yes, sir. And see what he

768
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: was trying to do was catched me in a lie.

769
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, had I said no to either one of

770
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: them or some of the other ones that he asked.

771
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: He had twenty five other people there that he would

772
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: probably called a cause this witness prove that I lied.

773
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: So their their defense was to discredit me. That was

774
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: one of their defense. So you had to tell the truth.

775
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: So when you when you talked about him. They knew

776
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: you were telling the truth because you told on yourself

777
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: that's right and there, and he couldn't he couldn't call

778
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: anybody or to say yeah, he did do that. We

779
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: were there. Let me ask you, and if you don't

780
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: want me to put this on there, I won't. What

781
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: about now? You said you smoked dope with him. That's

782
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: kind of comical because when he was putting up drywall

783
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: and they smoked dope all the time, marijuana, putting up drywall,

784
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: smoking it, you know, and they handed it to me

785
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: and I just put it to my mouth, and that's

786
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: it's comical because I'm putting in hell, did you? I

787
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: didn't serious, I'm serious. But you told the jury that

788
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: you smoked dope with him. And I explained myself. I said,

789
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: they passed it around when I was hanging draw one

790
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: one day and I put it to my mouth and

791
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: I acted like in hell and held my breath and

792
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: I handed it off to him. And you know what

793
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: their defense attorney says, Oh, he said, you're so like,

794
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: you're like our president, and hell are you smoked it?

795
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: Beating in hell? And I said, you got her? That

796
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: was right? During that time. It was learned something from

797
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: both slip really and I thought that's the best defense

798
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: I could have said, was what he just said, Yeah, yeah,

799
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: so you know things like that. Really didn't, I really didn't.

800
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: I was the only time I was ever confronted with

801
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: having to use it because I told him, you know,

802
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: and being on my age, which was at that time

803
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: probably been about thirty seven, I told him I I

804
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: smoked about when I was younger, but I said it.

805
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: I just didn't. It just don't agree with me, so

806
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: they didn't question it. Now, if I had been twenty

807
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: one twenty two, you ain't got enough experienced. But you

808
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: were just so you were just so believable. You know.

809
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: What's interesting to me and goes back to the complexity

810
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 1: of the place that you had to live in, because

811
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you you were really good

812
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: at telling the truth too. That was you're good at

813
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: telling a lie and good at telling the truth, uh

814
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: the lie. I would usually try to keep my stories

815
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: of whatever the story may be, was as close to

816
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: my upbringing and my experiences in my real world. Just

817
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: maybe change tell the story, you know, but I don't

818
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: have to give details, you know, as who who when

819
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: it was or when it was you know how it was.

820
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: And it was very convincing, because I'm not lie. If

821
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 1: somebody else asked me a question, you know, a month

822
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: later about that same topic, same thing. Yeah, oh man,

823
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: where do we start from here? For those of you

824
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: who might be too young to remember, On March twenty

825
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: nine nine, when the arc tall Governor Bill Clinton was

826
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: running for president, he lit up the nation in a

827
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: press conference when the reporter asked him if he'd ever

828
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: smoked marijuana. This is what he said. I experimented with

829
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it

830
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: and didn't inhale and never try it again. The catchphrase

831
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: I didn't inhale became a world famous phrase. Make an

832
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: artis response brilliant and relevant and true, and it worked

833
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: magic on the jury. If this rt was honest about

834
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: this bad stuff, we know we can trust what he

835
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: says about these poachers. And as for the truth of

836
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's statement, I don't know. And this is a

837
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: true story, true story. Boys. Did you know that my dad,

838
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: Gary Believer Knewcom, went to high school with Bill Clinton

839
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: in Arkansas and that my grandmother was good friends with

840
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's mother, But I hope you don't get the

841
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: wrong impression of the old believer Gary Nucom. He made

842
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: a living off staying sober from drugs and alcohol in

843
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: the midst of a wild time, even when he served

844
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and the trend was to stay stoned. And

845
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: he taught me that it's cool to stand against the trends.

846
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: And I'm teaching my sons and daughters the same thing.

847
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: And I'll also let you in and an odd Arkansas

848
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: phenomena that we all know. It's not spoken about much,

849
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: but even if you disagree with the Clinton's politically here,

850
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: it's taboo to speak too negatively in public about Arkansas's

851
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: number one son. So I'm not I think it'd actually

852
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: be pretty interesting to have Bill Clinton on the Burgarase podcast.

853
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: You never know, But I want to now take another

854
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: slight side step and ask our t something I told

855
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: you you'd hear Darth Pader and Bill Clinton. You didn't

856
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: believe me, did you? In this situation, you on this

857
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: court stand, and all these guys that you've been that

858
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: you have video on, that you've been building relationship with

859
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: years you're busting, did you ever feel h fear for

860
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, not there, not there because I knew that.

861
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: You know, I was protected with my guys. But boy,

862
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: looks could kill I was dead. Yeah, you know some

863
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: of them. Some of them are pretty rough, some of them.

864
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: Some of them, uh. Giving an example, you know, high

865
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: the state of a high as long as uh, it's

866
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: legal to record a conversation as long as one person

867
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: in the conversation knows it's being recorded. Right, So you

868
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: can't leave a recorder like in a car and two

869
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: guys talk. But if you're recording someone, I know it's

870
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: being recorded. Therefore it's legal. Understood. Well, this particular, one

871
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: particular night, we got back to the club we've been

872
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: out shooting deer. We got back to the clubhouse. I

873
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: forgot to turn the recorders off, and the door was

874
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: open on the side van and the picture comes out

875
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: that side van. Well, we didn't know it at the time,

876
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: and I was inside the building and that two of

877
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: these guys were outside and they were talking about killing

878
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: this guy because he's one it turned to be in

879
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: and we got this. They're they're planning the killing. They're

880
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: gonna kill the guy. They're gonna kill him. That they're

881
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: standing outside my van. And I got the video on him.

882
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know I had it on say, I've forgotten

883
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: all about it. So now we hear this conversation, We're going, oh, man,

884
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: we can't use this at the court at all because

885
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: they don't know it's being recorded. But man, here we

886
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: got a situation where we know about it, the plan

887
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: planning of a murder to commit murder, and we know

888
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: about it, but it's not legal. So this was one

889
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: time we get my boss out of bed, like three

890
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: or four o'clock in the morning. We this is something

891
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: that the boss gets paid the big MUCKs to make

892
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: this kind of decision, and it took the burden off us,

893
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: you know, took the liability off us. So we called

894
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: him up, explained to him. We got with him the

895
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: next day and showed him the tape somewhere. Somehow he goes, well,

896
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: I don't know what he did. I don't know what

897
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: he did, but he said, let's let it ride. They

898
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: were they were serious. They were absolutely serious, and they're

899
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 1: gonna kill a guy for turning them in. And here

900
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: you are an undercover agent who is deep inside there.

901
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: They'd have killed you. Oh, absolutely, there's no question. The

902
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: two guys that was talking about it. Absolutely. That just

903
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: goes to show you the guys he was dealing with

904
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: were often hardened criminals beyond poaching. And I want to

905
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: say something here. This really goes to show you how

906
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: much that we as a society value wildlife. Really, how

907
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: much Hunter's value wildlife. RT is risking his life in

908
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: the name of the North American model. It's just an

909
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: interesting thought. But I'm dying to know what this jury decided.

910
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the courtroom with the clean shaven

911
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: suit wearing civilized truth telling, non in haling RT. Stewart.

912
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: So the jury or the judge presented to the jury

913
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: their responsibility. They went in. We figured probably be the

914
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: next day, you know, before we partything. When we was

915
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: back in the prosecuting office back there, it was probably

916
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: seven o'clock and they had they made a decision. We're

917
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: going to the prosecutors said, that's good that if they

918
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: made a decision, is certainly that's good in our favorite.

919
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: We went back in. They found it guilty the next day,

920
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: all twenty five of them, their attorney at contact the prosecutor,

921
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: wanting to make deals. Had they have found him not guilty,

922
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: would have probably had more trial, So I think they

923
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: were That's why they were all there. They wanted to

924
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: see what was going on. And they was wanting to

925
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: see if they found him not guilty, because that meant

926
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: the If he found not guilty, that everybody, everybody. But

927
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: when he got so, what was the what what happened

928
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: to that guy? Did he go to jail? Did he

929
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: get fined big time? Probably lost his hunting license. Without

930
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: looking at the records, I did not recall how much

931
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: jail he went. Pretty confident he did go to jail,

932
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: fine big time. I think he may have even lost

933
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: the vehicle. The butcher lost all of these equipment, he

934
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: had a regular butcher shop, lost these souls, everything because

935
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: he was cutting up all these dear lost the hunting

936
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: license for life. And I think we'd put leans on

937
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: their houses until they paid the fine. Yeah, so they

938
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 1: really put the clamp on. Yeah, it's shut them down,

939
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: It's shut him down. Mission accomplished. Operation Redbud was complete

940
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: and resulted in twenty six criminals convicted of over two

941
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five wildlife violations. RT and his team's

942
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: work on this case was brilliant and I can't say

943
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: enough how important this type of work is in preserving

944
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: the integrity of the North American model of wildlife conservation.

945
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: We've got one more episode with rt and it's a due.

946
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: We're gonna dive into all the wild situations in which

947
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: Rtie used his instincts to stay out of trouble. It's

948
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: gonna be good. Thank you so much for listening to

949
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: Bear Greads. I can't thank you enough, but I will

950
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: ask of you a favorite. Share our podcast this week

951
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: with your in laws and outlaws, your friends and foes,

952
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: with neighbors and strangers. And if you're looking for some

953
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 1: great deals on first light gear saving up to off

954
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: and lots of stuff in the Mediator store, We've got

955
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: a giant Black Friday sale that starts on November. Everything's

956
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: early these days, and don't forget to pick up one

957
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: of those sweet Bear Grease or Believer hats. Hey. We're

958
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: gonna get back with the old Standard Render Crew next week,

959
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to catch up with him. And

960
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what Brent Reeves has say

961
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: for himself now