1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day three d 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: and five since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Today's 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: main story healthcare workers are among the first prioritized to 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: receive a vaccine, but some are refusing to get inoculated. 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: We look at why vaccine reluctance extends even to those 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: in the medical profession. But first, here's what happened in 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: virus news today. The US will require proof of a 8 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: negative COVID nineteen test before allowing visitors to fly into 9 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: the country from other nations. That's in an effort to 10 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: help airlines regain at least some of their most lucrative 11 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: international travel. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Tuesday said it approved the new anti pandemic measure that 13 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: will take effect on January. It requires travelers to receive 14 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: a test within three days before leaving for the US 15 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and provide written documentation of a negative result. Japan extended 16 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: its state of emergency beyond the Tokyo region, encompassing an 17 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: area that accounts for more than half of its economy. 18 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: It's one of several countries where the virus has made 19 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: a comeback in winter months. Tokyo cases hit a record 20 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: last Thursday. The situation has revived questions about whether it's 21 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: safe to hold even a limited version of the postponed 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: Olympics in less than two hundred days. Finally, Sweden is 23 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: tightening the screws after taking arguably the world's off this 24 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: approach to handling the coronavirus pandemic. Under a new law 25 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: that runs through September, the government can now find or 26 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: close businesses that fail to follow restrictions like visitor caps. 27 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: It's a departure from relying mainly on recommendations and trusting 28 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: people to follow them. With the health care system under 29 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: increasing to rest and death surging, some say it was 30 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: too little, too late, and now for today's main story, 31 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: most states have prioritized healthcare workers in their vaccination programs, 32 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: but across the country, vaccine providers are finding that some 33 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: of those workers don't want the shot. Nurses and firefighters 34 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: are among those questioning it's safety after approval in record time. 35 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: I spoke with reporter ALICEI. Young, who reports that reluctance 36 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: to get the shot that could end the pandemic goes 37 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: well beyond anti vax activists who's about unproven theories on 38 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: social media. The reluctance of some healthcare workers to receive 39 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: a COVID nineteen vaccine may be surprising too many listeners. 40 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: What have been some of the reasons that they've given 41 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: as to why they're unwilling to take it. Some medical 42 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: professionals are saying that they support vaccines, They support measles 43 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: vaccines and uh the annual flu shot, but they say 44 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: that they're leery of the science behind this one because 45 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen vaccinations were developed in such a short 46 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: amount of time. It can take about a decade or 47 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: more for a typical vaccine to go from research to market. 48 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: They're also afraid that it hasn't been tested long term. 49 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: They're worried about if they have pre existing conditions or 50 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: if they have um an immune disorder that causes their 51 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: immune system to just blow up. Now, I'd like to 52 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: dig into some of these things that you've just mentioned 53 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: in terms of the development of these vaccines and even 54 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: perhaps some of the technology that these vaccines utilize, because 55 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: it seems that some have cited the technology behind the 56 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: MODERNA vaccine and the Fiser vaccine the m RNA technology 57 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: as some of the causes of their suspicions. I mean, what, 58 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: what's the rationale there? Well, in a typical vaccine, what 59 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: you're using is a dead piece of the virus or 60 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: a very small amount of active virus. With the m RNA, 61 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: it actually goes into the body and causes a change, 62 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: a brief change. And folks who object to that say, 63 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: this technology is just two untested and once you put 64 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: this thing in your body, there's no knowing what it 65 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: can do. And they believe this, you know, with reason 66 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: or without reason, it's what they believe. You know, these 67 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: vaccines were developed at a remarkably fast pace, um the 68 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: fastest ever really, but you know, given that Fiser and 69 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: Moderna and and certainly other companies working on vaccines have 70 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: attempted to provide some sort of guarantees or safeguards that 71 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: might help ensure that consumers feel that these vaccines are safe. 72 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: And so I was wondering if you might unpack what 73 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: types of either testing was conducted before the vaccines were approved, 74 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: or some of the other methods that these companies took 75 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: to try and alleviate these fears. There's a lot of misinformation. 76 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: They're about the vaccines. One person we interviewed said, well, 77 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: it was never tested on mice, and vaccines are tested 78 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: on mice for a reason. In fact, the pharmaceuticals tested 79 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: the components not only on mice, but also monkeys and 80 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: more than seventy five thousand human beings. And when we're 81 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: talking about the medical professionals, as you say, who are 82 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: unwilling or have expressed a reluctance to take this vaccine, 83 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean, what specifically group of folks are we talking 84 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: about here. Are we talking about nurses, physicians, or are 85 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: we talking about kind of a broader definition of medical professionals. 86 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: I have a sprinkling of physicians who uh, myself and 87 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: my colleagues spoke to UM and they say, one said, 88 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: there's no need for the vaccine at all, that there 89 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: are over the counter drugs that they've been happy with 90 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: to treat the virus when it does pop up. One 91 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: operator of a nursing home Pruitt Health, which is one 92 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: of the nation's largest family operated nursing home Change, told 93 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: me that it's it's a lot of medical assistance, the 94 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: certified UH nursing assistance, who are saying, now, uh, these 95 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: folks tend to not be college educated, they're working for 96 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: low pay, long hours. Some have said they are African American, 97 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: and they are skeptical of what this drug contains. UM. 98 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: They point to the test keg Uh syphilis experiment UM 99 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: as a reason for their mistrust. Now, is there any 100 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: kind of data available in terms of, say, the percentage 101 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: or proportion of medical professionals or healthcare workers who aren't 102 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: willing to be vaccinated. I haven't found any reliable data 103 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: that show how many medical professionals want nothing to do 104 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: with this, And I think that's for a couple of reasons. Um, 105 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: we're so busy surveying the general population. Number one and 106 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: sixty of the general population says that they wanted Among 107 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: the professionals who are saying no, Also, they don't want 108 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: their names necessarily linked to this in print or anywhere else, 109 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: for fear of UM being made an example of, or 110 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: maybe for fear of losing their jobs. Now in the 111 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: vaccine rollout, UM, certainly there have been these attempts, as 112 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: we've already discussed, to you know, showcase the solid science 113 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: behind the vaccines, the safety behind the vaccines. But in 114 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: terms of perhaps encouraging these healthcare professionals or medical professionals 115 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: to receive the vaccine. Are there any types of incentives 116 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: that organizations, or even say the CDC has done to 117 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: try and encourage this particular group to receive the vaccine? Remember, 118 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: the federal government left vaccinations to the states to sort out, 119 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: and now states are kind of wringing their hands pulling 120 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: out their hair with this effort, although most of them 121 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: say that they're starting to get it under control. The 122 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: federal government has suggested for employees, say of a nursing home, 123 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: who are saying no thank you, to hold a pizza 124 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: party or offer some kind of raffle incentive to get 125 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: folks more interested in this, which is to me, is 126 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: kind of an interesting approach when you're talking about something serious, 127 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: something so serious, to say, hey, maybe a pizza party 128 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: will help. On that note, on more of the say 129 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: risk issue, Can a medical professional be fired for refusing 130 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated? Yes, a medical professional can be fired, 131 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: But there's a couple of components to this. Workers can 132 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: cite a disability or a religious belief, and that brings 133 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: us into the reasonable accommodation territory. So in this case 134 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: you would have to say I object to this because 135 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: I have a disability and it's going to be made worse. 136 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: So then your employer needs to turn around and said, okay, 137 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: well can you work from home or can you mask 138 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: constantly and take other steps? And this is where it 139 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: can get harry in court in the US Eighth Circuit 140 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: Court of Appeals took the case of an employee. She 141 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: was a medical employ who said no to a rebella 142 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: vaccine that was required by her employer. She was dismissed. 143 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: She said that she had allergies and sensitivities and was 144 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: afraid of a reaction. So the court took a look 145 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: at this and determined that what she had was quote 146 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: garden variety allergies and basically they told her get lost. 147 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: So that was a health her firing as a health 148 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that going forward, you know, 149 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: as vaccine roll out continues and ramps up, is there 150 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: more that can be done to shore up confidence either 151 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: amongst these healthcare professionals or even amongst the general population 152 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: that these vaccines are indeed safe. I don't know about 153 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: medical professionals, although some have said they're just taking a 154 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: weight and see attitude that they're not necessarily constitutionally against 155 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen vaccine. They say that they don't want 156 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: to be the guinea pigs, So the wait a couple 157 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: of weeks or a couple of months, um see if 158 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: there's any widespread reported problems so far as your basic 159 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: folks who don't want anything to do with it. It 160 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: was suggested to me by an immunization professional yesterday that 161 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: it can't be overstated how important that your local pastors 162 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: or even your local sports heroes, maybe not like your 163 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: NFL guy or your NBA guy or your women's soccer professional, 164 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: but people in the community whom people look up to 165 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: for them to get out and say, look, I took 166 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: it and I'm okay, and you should too. That was 167 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: a lease, young, And that's it for our show today. 168 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: For coverage of the outbreak from one bureaus around the world, 169 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: visit Bloomberg dot com slash coronavirus and if you like 170 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: the show, please leave us a review and a rating 171 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the best way to 172 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: help more listeners find our global reporting. The Prognosis Daily 173 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: edition is produced by top for foreheads Magnus Hendrickson and 174 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: me Laura Carlson. Today's main story was reported by Elise Young. 175 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: Original music by Leo sidrin. Our editors are Rick Shine 176 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: and Francesca Levi. Francesco Levi is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. 177 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.