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Speaker 1: Brand goes respond to the bar now, he he goes, Okay,
Speaker 1: bart al and it's and it never occurred to me
Speaker 1: at what I thought? I told Brent this yesterday. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, they got bared hols in Canada and
Speaker 1: they're over there trying to They're just trying to flag
Speaker 1: me down. Finally Gary walks over to me and he's like, Clay,
Speaker 1: did you not hear us? Did that? Here's Alan pressure Colin.
Speaker 1: It was just like, why didn't you hear? And then
Speaker 1: I told him I'm literally deaf in my right here.
Speaker 1: It was like he was getting mad at me for
Speaker 1: not being a walk but I was in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host of the
Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into
Speaker 1: the world of hunting the Icon and North American wilderness.
Speaker 1: There we'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also
Speaker 1: bring you into some of the wildest country on the
Speaker 1: planet chasing. British Columbia is an incredible place to hunt
Speaker 1: black bear. In May of nineteen just recently, we were
Speaker 1: in British Columbia at the camp of Jeff Lander and
Speaker 1: Primitive Outfitting. In this conversation, Jeff and I are joined
Speaker 1: by Jeff's longtime friend and got Gary Hillshirt. Gary is
Speaker 1: a veteran mountain hunter. He's had a lot of experience
Speaker 1: hunting both black and grizzly bears, and Jeff is a
Speaker 1: longtime outfitter and veteran northern hunter, and Jeff has had
Speaker 1: some incredible experiences with black and grizzly bears. On this podcast,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about stock and bears. So this is
Speaker 1: a spotting stock hunt that we're on and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of misconceptions about stock and bears, basically that it's easy,
Speaker 1: and we go through many examples of things that happened
Speaker 1: on this hunt that really surprised actually all of us,
Speaker 1: and so we're gonna talk about this specifics of stalking
Speaker 1: black bears. We also dive into some of the bear
Speaker 1: conflicts that these guys have been just an arms reach
Speaker 1: away from in British Columbia with a black bear, malley
Speaker 1: and some grizzlies stuff. So you're gonna enjoy this podcast
Speaker 1: with Jeff and Gary and British Columbia. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. We are in the wild places
Speaker 1: of British Columbia, Canada. I cannot give specific details where
Speaker 1: this camp is, but we're at the camp of Jeff
Speaker 1: Lander and Primitive Outfitting British Columbia. We're here this week
Speaker 1: hunting the giant black bears of the far North. Um.
Speaker 1: So I have his guest today, Jeff Lander and his
Speaker 1: good buddy and God. And uh, I'll let you introduce
Speaker 1: Gary Jeff, but Gary Hillsher but Jeff before we'll introduce
Speaker 1: Gary first. Well, Gary and I have been guiding together
Speaker 1: twenty something years now, so real quickly. The first time
Speaker 1: I met Gary, tax german friend of ours, just up
Speaker 1: for going on a sheep hunt, and he shows up
Speaker 1: at the coffee shop. How do you remember these things
Speaker 1: on his on his crotch rocket, Oh, with a very
Speaker 1: bright jacket, very bright fluorescent jacket and lightning bolts cut
Speaker 1: into the side of his head. No way, So I
Speaker 1: thought my friend Harley was messing with me with some
Speaker 1: some dude who who knows. I mean, it was weird.
Speaker 1: But he lost a bed at work and had to
Speaker 1: cut cut lightning bolts and his head. So I can't
Speaker 1: believe we've been married for this long, I know, No,
Speaker 1: Gary and I have. Yeah, we've done done a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff together and gone through some good times and
Speaker 1: crazy times. And yeah, so so he's been he's been
Speaker 1: guiding for you here at your bear camp for Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how long when did that start? Thirteen years ago?
Speaker 1: Thirteen years ago? Then before is Alberta with white tail?
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, so in an area that I didn't never
Speaker 1: even step foot in, I had rifle tags and he
Speaker 1: ran it up in northern Alberta, okay, way north. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so Gary's a Gary's a god and he GUIDs all
Speaker 1: over the place. Yeah, so what about you introduce yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well the best thing about you is you're married to
Speaker 1: in our Kansas absolutely a good one now started ninety four,
Speaker 1: I think, um in the avanton Boson for white tail.
Speaker 1: So in Alberta you can buy individual tags versus BC,
Speaker 1: you've gotta buy a actual hunting area. So when you're
Speaker 1: a young person trying to get into the outfitting game,
Speaker 1: Alberta was perfect because you could buy one tag or
Speaker 1: fifty tags, but you could. That was prime time for
Speaker 1: Canadian white tail hunting early nineties. Absolutely, the evanton Boson
Speaker 1: was the destination before quality deer management started happening in
Speaker 1: the state side. So yeah, um yeah, so it's been uh,
Speaker 1: it's been a long time, but and so currently primitive
Speaker 1: outfitting you got, so you started out with white tail,
Speaker 1: but now you're primarily guiding moose, mule deer, and black bear,
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, it was white tails. Then
Speaker 1: I got into mule deer in southern Alberta. I had
Speaker 1: about six or seven years of waterfowl in central Alberta. Um,
Speaker 1: but then waterfall and muled, you're kinda there's a conflict there.
Speaker 1: I mean as far as the same timing when the
Speaker 1: birds are coming on at the same time we're hunting
Speaker 1: muled here. So but I sold all my Alberta stuff
Speaker 1: to buy here, and then I slowly bought back what
Speaker 1: I had in Alberta. Yeah. Yeah, So we're gonna do
Speaker 1: We're gonna do another podcast on this trip where we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about like the just the full gamut of
Speaker 1: of black bear hunting and what we're doing this week.
Speaker 1: But on this podcast specifically, I want to want I
Speaker 1: want to talk about with you guys, is stalking black bears?
Speaker 1: Stalking bears? So uh, for people that listen to this
Speaker 1: podcast a lot, a lot of times, we have these big,
Speaker 1: like roundtable discussions where it's just we're just talking about
Speaker 1: general things, but then we have these like pretty specific
Speaker 1: topic based podcasts and so UM, so that's why what
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you guys about today. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've been hunting with Gary now for three days, and uh,
Speaker 1: we've learned a ton. Um in my experience with black
Speaker 1: bears is this is the first spotting stock, traditional archery
Speaker 1: western black bear hunt that I've done. So I've hunted
Speaker 1: in BC a couple of times, hid in the Western
Speaker 1: US several times for black bear, uh for with with
Speaker 1: a rifle, and that's hard enough. On this hunt. Because
Speaker 1: of well many reasons, I chose to bring the stick
Speaker 1: bow out here. Jeff is a big time traditional archer,
Speaker 1: that's all he does. And so um uh the name
Speaker 1: it was Outfits, primitive, outfiting. So how could I bring
Speaker 1: anything but the tread bow. And so this is a
Speaker 1: big this is this is kind of like another checkbox
Speaker 1: type hunt for me, really, and I've I've killed spotting
Speaker 1: stock bears in Arkansas with the tread bow. Um. But
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions about stock
Speaker 1: and these bears, just in general and the general hunting world.
Speaker 1: Let me just start off with with the The general
Speaker 1: conception perception is that bears are stupid, bears are easy
Speaker 1: to stock and bears can't see. That's a that's a perception.
Speaker 1: And but what we have seen in the last three days, Gary,
Speaker 1: is that uh there there well, and not just the
Speaker 1: last three days. But they're harder stock than you think.
Speaker 1: I mean, they really are, and there's there's several reasons
Speaker 1: for that. But Jeff, if you had to describe what
Speaker 1: it takes. And again, we're trying to, especially with the
Speaker 1: stick boat, we're trying to get inside of twenty yards
Speaker 1: and I heard Gary say many times this week it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty not easy, but doable to get inside of
Speaker 1: fifty even with most animals. But closing that distance down
Speaker 1: to twenty and under, Yeah, I mean you're you're up
Speaker 1: in his is grill big time. And you gotta do
Speaker 1: a lot of things right, I gotta have a lot
Speaker 1: of things going for you. But Jeff, how would you
Speaker 1: describe stalking black bears? What what does it take? You
Speaker 1: gotta know one to move and no one to stop, basically,
Speaker 1: so um and Gary's experiences are different. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: you said this is the you know, the time you're
Speaker 1: gonna do it, because you would have been probably tagged
Speaker 1: out by now if you rifle one thing. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's good or bad. That one is huge.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I mean I think what most folks who
Speaker 1: come up here are confused. I know last week, Um,
Speaker 1: when I when I start like, I close the distance
Speaker 1: and I close it fast. And even if I'm wide
Speaker 1: open to these bears and he's walking away or his
Speaker 1: heads down or he's not looking, I bug because part
Speaker 1: of the issue up heres wind. Wind can kill you,
Speaker 1: and it can change very quickly as well as you
Speaker 1: saw in fields or on the you know, in the
Speaker 1: meadows or on the logging roads or whatever. It's never
Speaker 1: a consistent in your face spent two So when when
Speaker 1: the moment is right, you better capitalize on that moment.
Speaker 1: So my approach and Gary's is probably different. But I
Speaker 1: try to get within sixty seventy yards as fast as
Speaker 1: I can in the wide open and then stop and whatever.
Speaker 1: And um, you're dealing with bears that that are looking
Speaker 1: over their shoulders for grizzlies. I mean I've seen seven
Speaker 1: this week. Um they don't like them, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so they're tiggy to begin with. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: move move fairly quick and and that let me stop
Speaker 1: on that point right there, because that is something that's
Speaker 1: very different than stalking an ungulate, is that like these
Speaker 1: bears we've been seeing there out in the middle of
Speaker 1: the field with their head in the grass, and they
Speaker 1: are they're not a prey animal. They don't have eyes
Speaker 1: on the sides of their head, they don't quite have
Speaker 1: the prifeal vision, well, they don't have near the perfeal
Speaker 1: vision of an ungulate. And so like, if that bears
Speaker 1: butt is towards you and his head is in the grass,
Speaker 1: you can move fast towards him. They're they're not they're
Speaker 1: not you know you do that on a deer. I
Speaker 1: mean he's gonna he's got a routine where every fifteen
Speaker 1: seconds he's lifting his head and getting it basically a
Speaker 1: three and sixty degree view around him. That's the one
Speaker 1: place that the bear is weak is you know, he's
Speaker 1: a predator. He's got eyes on the front of his head.
Speaker 1: And so that key right there. I think it's significant
Speaker 1: when you can move move fast, you get busted if
Speaker 1: you did that with a deer. Yeah, but you'll notice
Speaker 1: too when you're watching them that they are i mean
Speaker 1: they're swinging their heads and they're they're keeping tabs of
Speaker 1: what's going on around them. While see in some of
Speaker 1: the places you've been that notoriously where you've been hunting
Speaker 1: is big grizzly country. Yes one in particular who's there
Speaker 1: pretty much every year, and so they're casual. But you
Speaker 1: watch them mostly through a scope or through good binoculars,
Speaker 1: and they're swinging their heads and they're looking. They're looking
Speaker 1: at the edges there. They know what's around them. They
Speaker 1: do and a lot of times with mostly the big boars,
Speaker 1: and it's what gets them killed. Is there cocky and
Speaker 1: you know that the sows and the smaller boars will
Speaker 1: just fly off, you know, wherever they're at if they
Speaker 1: see something. But sometimes there's big boars. They're aggressive. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll tolerate you to a certain point, mostly during the rut,
Speaker 1: and if you get aggressive with them as well, that's
Speaker 1: what gets them killed because they they're proud that when
Speaker 1: you say you get aggressive with let let them see you.
Speaker 1: If he's with a sow, we we wollf at and
Speaker 1: we do what they do And a lot of times
Speaker 1: they come back for that second look, which is what
Speaker 1: gets them to narrow and do them right. This time
Speaker 1: of year, we're dealing with bears are feeding coming right
Speaker 1: out of the den. Um. You know, they're powering up
Speaker 1: because they haven't eaten in five right, So now they're
Speaker 1: not quite as aggressive, No, but they also are They're
Speaker 1: pretty protective of their prime feeding spots, so they can be.
Speaker 1: But it's yeah, um, so these bears, and I thought
Speaker 1: that was a good point, and I wouldn't have thought
Speaker 1: of it. I'm owned until you said it the other day.
Speaker 1: But these bears are edgy not because of hunting pressure.
Speaker 1: They're edgy because there's a First of all, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of black bears here. I mean we're seeing we're
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of bears. I told I told Brent,
Speaker 1: we're seeing as many bears here on spot and stock
Speaker 1: hunt typically as we would on a good baited hunt
Speaker 1: in Canada. Really, I mean seeing seven or eight bears
Speaker 1: a day. Um. And that's some of that's just driving
Speaker 1: down the road and seeing one across the road. But
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of bears, a lot of big
Speaker 1: black bears, but also a wad of grizzly bears. So
Speaker 1: these bears are constantly on edge. Yesterday we I stalked
Speaker 1: a bear that we didn't fully, we hadn't really gauged
Speaker 1: him that much. We didn't know if he was a
Speaker 1: shoot or not. But we went ahead and they sent
Speaker 1: me around and I got way out from the guys
Speaker 1: while they were on one side of the field, and
Speaker 1: I got with him, probably thirty to forty yards of
Speaker 1: this bear. And uh, we're not sure if the wind
Speaker 1: got me or what happened, but I think he may
Speaker 1: have heard me. Gary. I walked underneath one of these
Speaker 1: big fur trees. It had rained, and so it was
Speaker 1: it was pretty pretty quiet everywhere else, but just the
Speaker 1: way I had to go, I had to walk into
Speaker 1: this fir tree where it was dry, and I mean
Speaker 1: I was Indian tiptoe and and uh, I stepped on
Speaker 1: one little stick and uh, I couldn't even see the bear.
Speaker 1: But after I stepped on my stick, I slowed down
Speaker 1: and I saw the bear's head raised up. And I
Speaker 1: think he heard that stick and thought I was a bear.
Speaker 1: He didn't hear that stick and think I was a man.
Speaker 1: He heard a stick and thought I was a bear,
Speaker 1: and I was like a bear coming And he didn't
Speaker 1: booger off too bad, but he it changed his trajectory
Speaker 1: and he moved out of the way, and I mean
Speaker 1: it was just kind of like, jeez, I thought this
Speaker 1: was gonna be a little easier than this. And bear
Speaker 1: just put a run in another bear about a half
Speaker 1: an hour earlier and put that bear up a tree
Speaker 1: in front of us. Right. He was jittery already, came
Speaker 1: right out and did that. Was pretty cool. Yeah, Gary,
Speaker 1: what so let's say you're you're you're taking somebody, what
Speaker 1: do you You gave me some instruction when uh when
Speaker 1: when we first met earlier this week, Uh, what would
Speaker 1: you tell a guy that was spotting the stalking bears
Speaker 1: out here? I think Jeff answered that, Um yeah, same
Speaker 1: thing with Jeff said, you know when they're um covered
Speaker 1: the distance fast. Over the years, we've had a lot
Speaker 1: of guys because of deer hunting, you know, that's mainly
Speaker 1: what they've done. Where they um they moved so slow
Speaker 1: and everything's um indicated for how they move in and
Speaker 1: the wind changes so fast here so many times that
Speaker 1: uh yeah, cover that first whatever x amount of hundreds
Speaker 1: of yards and down to that sixty seventy yard distance
Speaker 1: with that fifty yard distance, uh as fast as you
Speaker 1: can so um, you know, before the wind changes, especially
Speaker 1: where we were in that field. I mean, that feels
Speaker 1: hard to hunt regardless we've got it done there. You know,
Speaker 1: quite a few times there's certain parts that field are
Speaker 1: so so hard to hunt because the wind is swirling
Speaker 1: right and um um yeah, those bears I mean, like, well,
Speaker 1: like most animals, their noses are amazing, even if it
Speaker 1: looks like they're not paying attention. What's cool is when
Speaker 1: I get to sit back, Um, I like a lot
Speaker 1: of guys, I gotta go in with them, and you're
Speaker 1: doing the stalks yourself with that, which I think is awesome. Um.
Speaker 1: We get to see what the bear does and you
Speaker 1: get to see that head come up constantly, even what
Speaker 1: like you said, it's not really it looks like it's
Speaker 1: not really looking, but man, it's wind checking. And you
Speaker 1: can a lot of times kind of see them smacking
Speaker 1: their lips and I think they're almost i don't know,
Speaker 1: tasting the wind or something looks weird, um, but just
Speaker 1: checking that out right. Um. Um, like Jeff said, because
Speaker 1: of just a lot of the bears and a lot
Speaker 1: of the grizzly bears around them. Um, you know, who
Speaker 1: knows what goes on for the things we don't see
Speaker 1: who knows how many of those uh those big boars,
Speaker 1: how many cubs they kill? Um and and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that goes down that you just you know,
Speaker 1: most people never never ever get to see. So they're
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of want to edge. But even like
Speaker 1: the big boar we did a stock on yesterday, you know,
Speaker 1: everything went. I honestly thought you were at least going
Speaker 1: to get a shot, you know, and perfect spot, perfect
Speaker 1: uh ditch that we were in on the old logging road,
Speaker 1: and and for that thing to just kind of step out.
Speaker 1: And sometimes they don't do that either, by the way,
Speaker 1: I mean, and look back and and and and see.
Speaker 1: Let me tell a cameraman, you know, I'm like, are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? Let's talk about that situation specifically. I've
Speaker 1: got I've got two other stories from this week that
Speaker 1: I want to talk about. But we saw this bear
Speaker 1: from probably close to half mile away on our road.
Speaker 1: We're driving down a logging road. See a bear kind
Speaker 1: of through the trees, long before we saw the truck.
Speaker 1: There's a bear on the road. We say, Gary backs
Speaker 1: the truck up. We get out of the truck wins,
Speaker 1: hitting us dead in the face. Everything's perfect. Bears walking
Speaker 1: down the road towards us. We closed the distance quickly.
Speaker 1: We couldn't even see the bear. I mean, so we're
Speaker 1: moving as fast as we can walk, you know, And
Speaker 1: we get to probably a hundred and fifty yards and
Speaker 1: we see the bear and he's kind of in the
Speaker 1: ditch and there's a there's a drain that there's a
Speaker 1: low spot in the road with a culvert in between
Speaker 1: us and the bear. Later we ranged it and we
Speaker 1: were a hundred yards away from the bear. Jeff. He
Speaker 1: was kind of off in the ditch, and I mean,
Speaker 1: we're in the chips man. He doesn't see us. He's
Speaker 1: got his head in the grass, winds in our face.
Speaker 1: We get two hundred yards and and so we got
Speaker 1: brand as a caraman Gary there and they're in the ditch.
Speaker 1: Gary's crouched. Brent has the camera up on a tripod,
Speaker 1: which that later we're learning we're gonna have to get lower.
Speaker 1: But I mean, they were the least of my concerns
Speaker 1: in terms of busting this bear. Well, when I left
Speaker 1: out with them and dropped in this ditch, to bear
Speaker 1: couldn't even see me. When I popped out of the ditch.
Speaker 1: I was gonna be probably under fifty yards from the bear.
Speaker 1: And I get down on the ditch and start coming
Speaker 1: back up the other side, and I mean, just thinking
Speaker 1: this is about to happen, and there they start calling
Speaker 1: me off. I kind of peeked back around and there.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they whistled at me or it
Speaker 1: was just like, what what are we doing here? Guys?
Speaker 1: And obviously you know the bear spooked he and they said, Gary,
Speaker 1: what did he do? Well, I'll just look back at
Speaker 1: us and and and you guys weren't moving. No. I
Speaker 1: mean usually in that case that that shouldn't happen, but
Speaker 1: it did. That's just the way it go was right,
Speaker 1: look back at us and and um yeah, and just
Speaker 1: realize something's not right, and then slowly walked off. And
Speaker 1: then when you came back up, then we got to
Speaker 1: watch it go into a cot and slow right down,
Speaker 1: and you could even hear a wolf from the cot
Speaker 1: a little bit right. And and the cool part of
Speaker 1: that story is that the other group of guys we
Speaker 1: told them to try to go after the bear, probably
Speaker 1: the same bear, and they got three stocks on it.
Speaker 1: For whatever reason. He's a big, big boar Um, he
Speaker 1: just really jiggy for whatever reason, maybe he did the
Speaker 1: same thing to these times. And they going on it
Speaker 1: three times with a compound, you know what, thirty seven
Speaker 1: forties something like all and the um and the hunter
Speaker 1: was at full draw and the bear didn't eve give
Speaker 1: him one second to shoot. Now that's kind of a
Speaker 1: rare situation. I mean, for whatever reason, when the winds
Speaker 1: in your face. But uh, because four street guys are
Speaker 1: back there, it just goes to show you that what
Speaker 1: what it taught me is that you just can't take
Speaker 1: anything for granted. I mean, whatever animal you're stalking to,
Speaker 1: you better put your as we say, the triple snake
Speaker 1: on them, right, I mean, because you know what, like this,
Speaker 1: I would be surprised if I see a bigger bear
Speaker 1: than that one on this hunt, you know. I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's like and not that we were taking it nonchalant,
Speaker 1: because we weren't at all. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: we just assumed that this wouldn't be a problem, and
Speaker 1: it was, and so you know, I mean, it just
Speaker 1: it just all all of us were like, well, we
Speaker 1: should have done this, you know, we should have set
Speaker 1: up behind the brush pile or you know, and I mean,
Speaker 1: you just learned something. But and that wasn't the only
Speaker 1: time that we spooked to bear by sight this week.
Speaker 1: And obviously our situation is a little bit different because
Speaker 1: we've got three guys, big camera and so I mean
Speaker 1: we're a lot of sense. Typically on a well, if
Speaker 1: your hunt in Canada, you gotta have a guide, if
Speaker 1: you're an American hunting here, so I mean, usually there's
Speaker 1: gonna be two guys. Um. But Gary, the first bear
Speaker 1: that we saw this week, we were hunting. We walked
Speaker 1: into a field. Man, the hunting here is incredible. The
Speaker 1: first place we went, first day we were here, we
Speaker 1: got here like three o'clock in the afternoon, and by
Speaker 1: five o'clock we were hunting. Gary took us to this
Speaker 1: this big field and uh, we popped up over this
Speaker 1: little ridge and man, there was a big bear feeding
Speaker 1: at four hundred yards. There was a bear directly in
Speaker 1: front of us, probably at well he was kind of
Speaker 1: around the bend, but at three yards. And there was
Speaker 1: another bear over here at probably three hundred yards. I
Speaker 1: mean it was just like that's affter. You drove back
Speaker 1: grizz with two cups, right. Yeah. The first bear that
Speaker 1: we the first bear encounter that we had was it
Speaker 1: looked like a big, big mama griz. Well she had cubs.
Speaker 1: It was a female, but it wasn't a small griz. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw her from the road. Um, but we're trying
Speaker 1: to decide which bear to go after, and we could
Speaker 1: tell one was pretty big, but one was in kind
Speaker 1: of a better place to stalk. So we said, well,
Speaker 1: let's just let's just ease down in there. And uh,
Speaker 1: that bear was a hundred fifty yards away I think
Speaker 1: hunt maybe maybe a hundred and twenty, and uh, we
Speaker 1: kind of peeked out around the edge and uh, glass
Speaker 1: this bear and the wind was good. He threw up
Speaker 1: his head, looked at us and just moved into the
Speaker 1: timber like they do, kind of just tiptoe and off.
Speaker 1: I was shocked, And I think you were too, Gary,
Speaker 1: weren't you. Yeah, I'm not what I was for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean it didn't even it just it broke the
Speaker 1: stereotype of what you typically think about bears. But I
Speaker 1: think the reason for that was too is as uh
Speaker 1: as we're discussing this, is that there's there was so
Speaker 1: many bears, well not so many, but three bears there
Speaker 1: and that bigger boar being down the field, which we
Speaker 1: eventually went after. Um, they're a little more on edge
Speaker 1: when you have that many bears around. Um yeah, usually
Speaker 1: it's not quite that difficulty. No, they've been seeing us.
Speaker 1: It seems like this year or more whatever it made
Speaker 1: us because it's so concentrated. As far as the food,
Speaker 1: it's so concentrated. There's I mean, who knows what we're
Speaker 1: not seeing, you know, so they're probably so Yeah. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of snow up in the high country,
Speaker 1: right and that we had a long winter. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a long winter, and I think, um war
Speaker 1: as we could probably be hunting a little bit higher
Speaker 1: right now, and not just the way the years go, right. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, any bear that salad is probably down either
Speaker 1: along the railway tracks feeding or in these abandoned farm
Speaker 1: fields or along the old logging roads, which is basically
Speaker 1: right out down here, right. We've already driven up wants
Speaker 1: to check things out and U um yeah, and we're
Speaker 1: just snowed in up top right now. And if you
Speaker 1: were not that snowed in right So, Um, just a
Speaker 1: lot more bears concentrated, and I'm for sure that's what
Speaker 1: making am a little more jiggier on the edge, right,
Speaker 1: and we've already seen him. So that just shows you
Speaker 1: that there's all these factors inside of inside of hunting
Speaker 1: these bears that maybe you wouldn't necessarily think about. I mean,
Speaker 1: like the fact that these bears are concentrated, it's gonna
Speaker 1: make them more more skittish out of humans, but of bears.
Speaker 1: And like that bear when he saw that, the first
Speaker 1: bear hundred twenty yards away, I mean, I don't he
Speaker 1: probably didn't think we were humans. Maybe he did. He
Speaker 1: just saw something that wouldn't have elk standing on the
Speaker 1: edge of a field, kind of a blob. It was
Speaker 1: just like m hmm, maybe that's you know, maybe I
Speaker 1: thought we were grizzly. I don't know, but he moved off.
Speaker 1: Let me take the conversation here to just for people
Speaker 1: that maybe I don't know a lot about bears, or
Speaker 1: or maybe they do. But bear eyesight, they say it
Speaker 1: is really equivalent to ours. They see color. You know,
Speaker 1: Ungulus don't see color. Bears see color because from a
Speaker 1: biological perspective, they've got to be able to tell the
Speaker 1: difference between a ripe berry and an unripe berry. That's
Speaker 1: the way I've heard it described. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like they need that color differentiation to be able to
Speaker 1: pick their food. I mean that's probably the only reason.
Speaker 1: But bears sea color pretty much equivalent to us. Their
Speaker 1: eyesight is uh a lot like ours binocular vision. Um,
Speaker 1: they even have depth perception like ours. But because they're
Speaker 1: not a prey animal and they don't have that really
Speaker 1: heightened flight response to danger like a deer. A lot
Speaker 1: of times people perceive bears is having bad eyesight, which
Speaker 1: really a lot of times they just don't care. Like
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing. Like a lot of times
Speaker 1: a bear he probably sees you or perceives that something
Speaker 1: is over there, but he just doesn't care. And so
Speaker 1: people go, well, bears are half blind, but they're really
Speaker 1: not blind. So in a situation like this where the
Speaker 1: bears are heightened because of gre is because a lot
Speaker 1: of black bear, then all of a sudden, I mean
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is they see just fine. Any thoughts
Speaker 1: on that yet? No, I agree with you. Yeah, they do.
Speaker 1: They see Uh yeah, I think they see as well
Speaker 1: as we do for sure. Um. And that's a good
Speaker 1: good way to put it. I mean what you just
Speaker 1: said there, I mean is kind of new to I
Speaker 1: haven't heard it that way, you know, as far as uh, um,
Speaker 1: color and and and yeah that's interesting. Um, but no
Speaker 1: they see and I think you're right they don't. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they just don't care, you know, the bigger ones don't.
Speaker 1: Except for the one last night he did care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it as close. Um yeah, yeah, So I mean this
Speaker 1: time of year, you're you know, we're just dealing with
Speaker 1: him coming out. I mean last week I literally was
Speaker 1: seeing bears that could not stand for more. In about
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, they laid down, drooling. They just came out
Speaker 1: of the den. Every bear that we've shot so far
Speaker 1: has hair between his toes and his claws. You know,
Speaker 1: he has been walking along at least on anything hard. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a it's it's a rifle rifle hunter's
Speaker 1: dream here, a stick bows nightmare. But when you get
Speaker 1: it done with a stick, it's you know, like we
Speaker 1: had a young guy shoot one here a couple of
Speaker 1: nights ago at twelve yards. You know, that bear never
Speaker 1: looked up feeding walked right into him. So each bear
Speaker 1: is different, and when it comes together, it's pretty pretty
Speaker 1: awesome because they're up close and personal and and uh
Speaker 1: if they want, they can bat you around pretty quickly. Well, Jeff,
Speaker 1: tell us the story about the bear you encountered last night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just in another another area, another zone from um,
Speaker 1: we have the guy's covered, So I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: when the hunters covered here, because we killed out two
Speaker 1: bears on Sunday night. So just be checking out another
Speaker 1: zone with with Dave, my friend Dave from Alaska. And yeah,
Speaker 1: he just he was just a really big black bear
Speaker 1: and he uh, it was raining and came through that
Speaker 1: stretch and there was a big fresh pile. I hain't
Speaker 1: been anything there the last couple of days. Big fresh
Speaker 1: pile went up and hung out until the rain let
Speaker 1: off and came back. So he's probably a hundred yards
Speaker 1: and I at first I thought he was a grizzly
Speaker 1: m because he just had a big hump on him.
Speaker 1: But he was black, and no, I just yeah, it
Speaker 1: worked out. You rushed in. I'm just like you said,
Speaker 1: you you saw him he ran yeah, yeah, and closed
Speaker 1: the distance to fifty Yeah, he was he had his
Speaker 1: head away from me and he was kind of over
Speaker 1: the edge a little bit, and so I was able
Speaker 1: to move close one spot where he was probably twenty
Speaker 1: five yards and I had to get around this willow
Speaker 1: and risk it when he had heads down, which I
Speaker 1: got around him and got to eighteen. But he's over
Speaker 1: the edge and I could just see the top of
Speaker 1: his back and maybe four inches from the top. No
Speaker 1: shot and then uh and then at that point I
Speaker 1: realized that he was he was. He was really big.
Speaker 1: And then I had my bow up. I had to
Speaker 1: take one step up to get the shot to get clear,
Speaker 1: and he just turned and looked and saw me and
Speaker 1: he scdaddled very quickly, so he just bolted. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: He did not know what I was. The wind was good,
Speaker 1: no idea, just knew something was there real close to him.
Speaker 1: And thankfully he ran the other way and it was
Speaker 1: all down willows and like a beaver pond. And as
Speaker 1: he's on in a way, I just like, wow, that
Speaker 1: that is a giant, you know. Yeah. I mean he
Speaker 1: couldn't move very fast like some of these younger bears.
Speaker 1: They can haul, you know, they can grip and go,
Speaker 1: but he was struggling to get across here. So that
Speaker 1: was great. Spooked to him out of there. But he
Speaker 1: didn't know what I was, and there's not much green
Speaker 1: over there. Um, yeah, it's just and that's the first
Speaker 1: stock I've had myself, well second in eight years, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I see a lot of these things. We
Speaker 1: stuck a lot, and we we shoot a lot of
Speaker 1: them and never had much of a desire because I've
Speaker 1: ship shot quite a few of them with my stickboat,
Speaker 1: but kind of got the fire. It's it's cool being
Speaker 1: close to these and these things or majestic animals in
Speaker 1: the world they live in every day, you know. And
Speaker 1: I stopped doing two bears killing two bears because a
Speaker 1: lot of folks would kill one. They just want to
Speaker 1: kill another one, not taking into account what that bear
Speaker 1: has gone through. The spect factor was not there. I
Speaker 1: mean not with every guy. I'm not saying every guy's
Speaker 1: like that or a person is like that, but they're
Speaker 1: not they they're not everywhere. And to get that size,
Speaker 1: like what Frank shot the other night, you know, that's
Speaker 1: probably I don't know, I'd say seven eight year old bear,
Speaker 1: maybe younger. He was young, but some of the big
Speaker 1: big bears were killing or in that ten year and older,
Speaker 1: and uh, you got to give him respect. I mean
Speaker 1: they what they I mean, they're getting dragged out of
Speaker 1: their dens by wolves in the winter. It's known thing.
Speaker 1: Mostly the young bears. They're find a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: bear claws and the wolf's cat. We got a lot
Speaker 1: of wolves around here, and you know, it's mandatory that
Speaker 1: every one of my hunters has a wolf tag because
Speaker 1: we're killing them if we can. And we go very often.
Speaker 1: I've seen two this last week, but usually we can
Speaker 1: go season and not but that chance of for fifty
Speaker 1: bucks a wolf stands out there. Even it's the bow hunters.
Speaker 1: There's no messing around with the bow. It's like you
Speaker 1: grab your guys going and you shoot. And we've had
Speaker 1: them shot guys life size and which is hilarious because
Speaker 1: their hides are brutal. I mean, but you know, we
Speaker 1: take it for granted up here, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people can't shoot wolves, and a lot of people in
Speaker 1: the West don't like wolves. I mean, they're part of
Speaker 1: the Canadian experience, just as important as anything else, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't think, let me think about this before I
Speaker 1: say it. I'm pretty sure that I have never seen
Speaker 1: a wolf in Canada. All that I mean, I've hunted
Speaker 1: a lot in Canada. I do not think i've ever
Speaker 1: seen a wolf limonas in Canada. The only wolf I
Speaker 1: seene was in Ottaho. That just shows you how elusive
Speaker 1: they are because they're everywhere. Oh yeah, but there, you know,
Speaker 1: besides the mature board grizzly, they are the smartest critter
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, they have to be. Are they smarter
Speaker 1: in a wild hog? Jeff? Everybody talking about how smart
Speaker 1: or smart wild I would attest the fact that wild
Speaker 1: big boar hogs are very smart because they elude me
Speaker 1: big time or smell me. So but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: so they probably they are. They are m m well.
Speaker 1: And and then so you said they're evading to get
Speaker 1: to that ten year old range. They've they've evaded wolves,
Speaker 1: they've evaded predation by black bears. They've also avoided getting
Speaker 1: killed by a grizzly, which probably would be I mean,
Speaker 1: grizzlies aren't like seeking out black bears to kill them,
Speaker 1: but they would. I mean, the opportunistic omnivores, they would.
Speaker 1: They'd kill a cub if they could in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1: And then conflicts inside of feeding and stuff. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's black bear fatalities by grizzlies probably fairly common, And
Speaker 1: I bet you vice versa. You think some of the
Speaker 1: black bears get the griz of a grizzly running from
Speaker 1: a big black bear. Really, yeah, So I think in
Speaker 1: a lot of these big mature for black bears are
Speaker 1: tore up like they've gotta be fighters to live. So
Speaker 1: I think I don't think these these big bore black
Speaker 1: bears are running from grizzlies. I think they hold their
Speaker 1: own I really do. Yeah, And I used to think
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't be in the same vicinity, but then
Speaker 1: I've seen them many times. You know, elk here, grizzly here,
Speaker 1: black bear here, guy shoots black bear, the other two runaway. Whatever.
Speaker 1: But um, Gary tell us about the We talked about
Speaker 1: this a lot this week, Jeff, uh the the common
Speaker 1: theme that you hear from outfitters and stuff. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean even a lot of the old school outfitters that
Speaker 1: are like are amazing. I mean, growing up and not
Speaker 1: knowing so much about this stuff, I'd always hear all,
Speaker 1: if you're seeing grizzlies, are not gonna see blocks and all.
Speaker 1: My goodness, I mean, at least in this area. That's
Speaker 1: been including in my own hunting career when I used
Speaker 1: to grizzle beer hunt as a kid. Um that was
Speaker 1: proven so wrong. I've been on avalone shoots and seeing
Speaker 1: you know, um, three black bears, four black bears out
Speaker 1: there feeding in a big giant Grizzli and don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, are all aware of each other and they
Speaker 1: give each other space, but they're out. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the only green in the country. And uh, it's not
Speaker 1: like the grizzlies pushing off the block service first. And
Speaker 1: we got video here over the years. Actually here has
Speaker 1: proved it anywhere else. Um in one of the areas
Speaker 1: we we hunt where Jeff was saying earlier, and that's
Speaker 1: not the only experience where um, this boar, I mean,
Speaker 1: this grizzlies out and it's not a big grizz but
Speaker 1: that's not the point. It's still a three four year
Speaker 1: old grizzly bear. And you know those black bear walks
Speaker 1: out and puts a run on it. Now once they
Speaker 1: kind of sniffed each other out. Because the people that
Speaker 1: were there with us had an amazing evening. The grizzly
Speaker 1: came back out no different. When we were hiking out
Speaker 1: last night, we actually saw an other bear that we
Speaker 1: wanted to stalk. Two nights ago, I'm closer to my
Speaker 1: truck there right, And it was the bigger bear. It
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, a shooter, we thought, and and uh
Speaker 1: and also the smaller bear comes out and they didn't
Speaker 1: see each other, but they definitely winded each other pretty quick,
Speaker 1: and that smaller bear put a round on the bigger
Speaker 1: bear and then they kind of tried to figure things out. So, um,
Speaker 1: it's amazing how I don't know why that's such. That's
Speaker 1: one of those wives kills. I mean, the first thing,
Speaker 1: the first day we were here, we saw that disproved
Speaker 1: because we well, over the course of two days we
Speaker 1: saw that big sal grizz with the two cubs, the
Speaker 1: tasty freeze as they call it. And then the very
Speaker 1: next day and the I mean probably within thirty feet
Speaker 1: of where that grizz was there was a sound. But
Speaker 1: then we went just a hundred yards on the rod
Speaker 1: and there was another grizzly with a club right there
Speaker 1: and so there and they knew each other, was there
Speaker 1: for sure, you know, yet they're they're feeding around, so like, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: that's definitely one of those things that's a misconception. You
Speaker 1: know that abot grizzly bears around there's no block bears around.
Speaker 1: But the whole grizzly thing adds a dimension of this
Speaker 1: hunt that, uh, I would have only experienced in Alaska,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean in Alaska you're constantly aware of grizzlies,
Speaker 1: you know, and wouldn't carry handguns in Alaska. So I
Speaker 1: remember Jeff on the hunt of Alaska. One time I
Speaker 1: went on a hunt and I just left my my
Speaker 1: pistol at home or at at the tent on accident,
Speaker 1: and man, I was like paranoid. That whole hunt here
Speaker 1: we can't carry because we're in Canada. Um. But the
Speaker 1: grizz adds just a super cool dimension to this hunt.
Speaker 1: And talking about stalking black bears, um twice. Now, we've
Speaker 1: been hunting this big field that you guys have said
Speaker 1: it is typically holding a big grizz and I'm over
Speaker 1: there bear crawling to stalk on these bears for like
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty yards. I'm on my hands and knees,
Speaker 1: you know, with the tread bow in one hand, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking what am I gonna do? And I slip
Speaker 1: up on Mama grizz about fifteen yards away when she
Speaker 1: steps out into the field, and uh it adds a dimension.
Speaker 1: It's a whole dimension to the even a stock, because
Speaker 1: the idea of the stock is that you're slipping along quiet.
Speaker 1: When you're a grizzly bear country and you're a hiker,
Speaker 1: they're like, we're bells on your shoes, you know, like
Speaker 1: make noise, let them know you're there. When you're stalking,
Speaker 1: you're not making any noise. Now, Gary is like he
Speaker 1: doesn't pay much attention to him or Jeff, are you
Speaker 1: paranoid at all about grizzlies. That's that's the wrong word.
Speaker 1: I think you have to be. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: bought these uh these e bikes, these Trek e bikes
Speaker 1: us last year. They were new last year, and I
Speaker 1: honestly have changed my tune on those on some of
Speaker 1: the places we hunt, because you know, it's curvy, it's rolling,
Speaker 1: you've got log box, and you know you can be
Speaker 1: on something very very quickly, which we did last year
Speaker 1: on a couple you know, four year olds. But you
Speaker 1: gotta get him a healthy Uh Yeah. So you're saying
Speaker 1: you could be cruising along not making making very little
Speaker 1: noise on that e bike. Come around a log pile
Speaker 1: and there's a grizz there and bam, he just yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the big boards probably not. They wrote up
Speaker 1: on when last week at thirty yards or thirty five
Speaker 1: yards where you were hunting, past where you were at
Speaker 1: up More fields. I mean he was in the ditch.
Speaker 1: All he saw it was his home. He just lifted
Speaker 1: his head and stared at him. And this is my
Speaker 1: other guy, Ryan and his hunters, they just kind of
Speaker 1: I want Tom quickly turned around got out of there.
Speaker 1: But the other to just if that was a sow
Speaker 1: with young cups, likely you're going to have an encounter
Speaker 1: very quickly. So, um, I think it makes you better hunter.
Speaker 1: I think you're more aware. I know as a guy,
Speaker 1: I'm way more aware. Um. Even Gary this started carrying
Speaker 1: his gun everywhere most places. Gary doesn't really you know,
Speaker 1: he figures that nothing's going to happen, and you know
Speaker 1: it's not. Is a self medic. So we need to
Speaker 1: hear a few stories about that too. Well, we got
Speaker 1: a lot of Gary stories, but that's for another podcast. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta have a healthy respect for him. You know,
Speaker 1: I got a mid I'm one of those guys just
Speaker 1: take it for granted and it's just not cool. I
Speaker 1: have been charged a few times to um to basically
Speaker 1: point blank range, you know, And and again I got
Speaker 1: a mit. Back then I kind of thought it was
Speaker 1: a joke. But let's just face it, there's there's human
Speaker 1: lives here involved. There's families, there's kids, and over the
Speaker 1: years I'm in in the community, I'm not referring to
Speaker 1: hear right here, but um, we've lost acquaintances, right and
Speaker 1: the pre uh percussions of that just right down through
Speaker 1: I'm like a gain family, children, wives, et cetera. Is
Speaker 1: huge And for whatever ridiculous reason, you know, I just
Speaker 1: never thought that way. Um. You know, I've been charged
Speaker 1: off of a moose kill, not only that that moose
Speaker 1: is dead, on a totally different hunt with with a
Speaker 1: grizzly bear hunter just going into set up for the evening,
Speaker 1: and and umm, it is not at all referring to
Speaker 1: what most clients will or will not do. But as
Speaker 1: arrogant this may sound, I got to realize, I don't
Speaker 1: know you, and you could be the world's greatest hunter,
Speaker 1: but I gotta still taking consideration that I don't know
Speaker 1: your reaction to a charge down to maybe ten fifteen
Speaker 1: five yards And in a few times that I have
Speaker 1: been point blank charge. I'm not about bluff charge. You
Speaker 1: learned to read that over the years. But a few
Speaker 1: times I've been point blank chard arched. Um, my hunters
Speaker 1: have lost it. And these are good guys, these are
Speaker 1: good human beings, you know what I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: absolutely lost it. And then um, and I've given me
Speaker 1: the gears like why didn't you shoot? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: there's so much a goal through a guide said, we
Speaker 1: gotta learn a really really respect each other. Like you know,
Speaker 1: I gotta put myself in your shoes where you're coming from,
Speaker 1: and and the and the clients gotta put themselves in
Speaker 1: the guide shoes. Well, first of all, you're paying X
Speaker 1: amount of dollars back when it was open for this
Speaker 1: hot I don't want to shoot because if I shoot, um,
Speaker 1: this almost through your head. And you know what a
Speaker 1: second right. But again, my hunters and in the times
Speaker 1: I've been charged, have lost it. And in hindsight, Um, regardless, Um,
Speaker 1: you know how strict they are, which is whatever it is.
Speaker 1: You know, the laws here in BC right now with
Speaker 1: grizzy bear hunting be shut down. Um, human life is
Speaker 1: far more important than any animal life, any animal for
Speaker 1: that matter, And I should have shot, I should have shot.
Speaker 1: I didn't. Nothing happened. But uh, it's gotta be going
Speaker 1: through your head too now, even more so than before
Speaker 1: that man, you shoot a guzly where you got a
Speaker 1: pretty tough road to the government. That is that true? Yeah, there,
Speaker 1: it's like a murder investigation. Wow, you know, but I've
Speaker 1: instructed my guys that, you know, if if, if it's
Speaker 1: a serious charge, like Schneider and Brian Call had a
Speaker 1: charge two years ago on a moose hunt, and I
Speaker 1: think they should have killed that because the way he
Speaker 1: was looking, he was not afraid of I'll deal with
Speaker 1: the government whatever. But life is, you know, to be
Speaker 1: afraid of losing or for me losing my license, or
Speaker 1: these guys losing their privileges to guide, because if you
Speaker 1: shoot a bear in that split second of not you know,
Speaker 1: if you don't and he's on you, Um, it's it's ugly, right.
Speaker 1: But yet these black bears could kick your tail as
Speaker 1: quickly as any griz as I can. And it's amazing
Speaker 1: how the heart rate is different from a big black
Speaker 1: bear versus a big grizzly, yet the consequences could be
Speaker 1: the same. That crossed my mind last night. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: daves and it's raining. He can't even see me, and
Speaker 1: I'm just standing there looking at you know. I mean
Speaker 1: if that thing said, I mean, yeah, the most predatory
Speaker 1: black bear predatory black bear encounters or or situations probably
Speaker 1: have been in BC. Mm hmm probably. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: kind of shooting off the hip there. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: we had we had one, you know, yeah, do you
Speaker 1: want to tell us about that? I mean, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: he Uh, these guys are residents. I've known him for
Speaker 1: a long time and we're moose hunting. I had clients
Speaker 1: in and we're way down on in my area of
Speaker 1: very remote we have we won't get there. We can't
Speaker 1: get there now because of the snow. But he they've
Speaker 1: been down there eighteen years and they've always had bears
Speaker 1: that would come in and around because it's their camp.
Speaker 1: But so my moose hunters left on a Wednesday. We
Speaker 1: killed a big ball. Some mistakes were made, no doubt.
Speaker 1: I was concerned, um, without the you know a little.
Speaker 1: I was concerned about the scent and garbage control. The
Speaker 1: moose was dragged right into camp four wheelers. You know,
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of things adding up to it,
Speaker 1: and I had a young couple in the gal was
Speaker 1: the age of my daughters or my oldest daughter anyway,
Speaker 1: so I wanted to get her out of there. I
Speaker 1: just had a bad feeling, and so I said, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna butcher this moose and I'm gonna take my
Speaker 1: truck down park it, which we did. So I got
Speaker 1: her out of there, got her down here, and her
Speaker 1: husband's stayed for another day or two. Anyway, they left
Speaker 1: on a Wednesday, Tuesday. My two guides took their sons
Speaker 1: out and they killed a bull themselves. They had to
Speaker 1: draw tag as residents, and then they took that back home.
Speaker 1: Didn't come back there as it came back Friday, and
Speaker 1: their pelican cooler was out in this common area. So
Speaker 1: you had cooked tent and two sleeping tents. They're all
Speaker 1: five ft ten ft apart from each other. And the
Speaker 1: pelican was pulled out with a big tooth mark in it.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So they pulled it back in and and uh,
Speaker 1: I went to bed. Paul, Paul and Dave great guys,
Speaker 1: great guys. But anyway, so Paul heard something in the
Speaker 1: cook tent. He said, Hey, Dave, I think there's a bear.
Speaker 1: And before he even got in the cook tent, that
Speaker 1: bear was through the wall tent. That was well with
Speaker 1: most wall tents after the first year. The zipper doesn't
Speaker 1: work me, it's just notorious. They don't. So it flew in,
Speaker 1: hit him on his cot, started his feet ripped and
Speaker 1: just to clarify, this is a black bear, three pound bore,
Speaker 1: black bear, well fit. This isn't the grids. He's predatory,
Speaker 1: this guy. And so he ripped his calf off his
Speaker 1: leg like literally bit tore this guy's on his cot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did he even have a chance to get up, No,
Speaker 1: he's asleep. Basically he was still awake. Everyone else's asleep.
Speaker 1: Did they have guns close by? Yeah, it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: He was on him. And then so we've got to
Speaker 1: realize the seventeen year old son was in there. Dave's
Speaker 1: eighteen year old son was in there in each corner
Speaker 1: of this huge it's about the size of different different different, yeah, different,
Speaker 1: Dave and uh, yeah, So he grabbed him and then
Speaker 1: he just kind of worked his way up rips cat.
Speaker 1: He's screaming now and uh and and moved up to
Speaker 1: his legs, was biting and he had a bunch of
Speaker 1: puncture wounds in his thigh and then a big tear
Speaker 1: across his chest. I mean, you couldn't have a more
Speaker 1: perfect tattoo. I mean, it's this thing is awesome. I
Speaker 1: mean five right across, and so Dave wakes up, grabs
Speaker 1: his gun. I don't know if I don't think it
Speaker 1: was loaded. This is all happening. The boy's reaction were different.
Speaker 1: The one thought it was a dream and just pulled
Speaker 1: his sleep bag over his head and was trying to
Speaker 1: wake up. And the other kid was, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: was waking up and watching. Anyway, So Dave shot the bear.
Speaker 1: The bears on top of Paul. Paul's bear hugging it,
Speaker 1: trying to push it off. So the bullet went through
Speaker 1: the bear and took his elbow out. So now he's
Speaker 1: dropping the f bombs. You you blew my f and
Speaker 1: elbow off, And meanwhile the bear is going to town
Speaker 1: right hits him again, and then the bear gets off.
Speaker 1: He gets off. Paul goes to the corner, goes underneath
Speaker 1: the kids caught. He's trying to get out now out
Speaker 1: of the tent, goes along the back side of the wall.
Speaker 1: Tent knocks the woodstove over, so now we got smoke billowing.
Speaker 1: He jumps on top of the other kid in his cot.
Speaker 1: He's under sleep bag, it's on top. He's trying to
Speaker 1: get out. And then he goes out of the corner
Speaker 1: and then exits, goes to the other tent where there
Speaker 1: was two guys, walks in. Does you turn watks back out?
Speaker 1: The bears have been shot twice. Believe it's twice? Want to?
Speaker 1: I think it was twice. And then Dave now is
Speaker 1: out in that little a little common area and the
Speaker 1: bears wheezing and you know what I mean, he's his
Speaker 1: lungs are filling. He goes back into the original tent.
Speaker 1: The eighteen year old boy had a defender shot again.
Speaker 1: The guy who was attacked is telling him how to
Speaker 1: load it, how to jack it in, and you know,
Speaker 1: shoot it. I mean, as he's tore up and so boom,
Speaker 1: he shoots a bear. Bear drops right next to the
Speaker 1: bears a five gallon propane tank. Mhm, I have the picture.
Speaker 1: I'll show it. It's insane. And then the bear died,
Speaker 1: and then I had then and it was years ago,
Speaker 1: and that was it was a two hour I don't
Speaker 1: have to drive out of there. In course, they got
Speaker 1: Global Star, which sucks compared to Ridium, so they can't
Speaker 1: get out. They can't get a signal. So Dave throws
Speaker 1: Paul in his truck and he tells the two his
Speaker 1: two friends, and then the two boys keep calling, keep
Speaker 1: calling until you get through, telling to meet us. Met
Speaker 1: him down kind of by those log box over here
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the main logging road. That's where
Speaker 1: the ambulance was. I'm in Calgary because I'm starting MULED here.
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for landing to fly in from Arkansas. I
Speaker 1: got a call from Jared wilkeson good friend of mine.
Speaker 1: He's with BC Wildlife Federation. He goes, did you hear
Speaker 1: about the attack on the river, And immediately I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: because no one's down there. Did I just say the river?
Speaker 1: I did, didn't I? Anyway? Whatever, it's a big, big area,
Speaker 1: so yeah. So I called him and he uh, the
Speaker 1: phone answered, but no one said hello. I could just
Speaker 1: hear him telling the doctor do not amputate my arm.
Speaker 1: I had quick Copenhagen two years before. I drove straight
Speaker 1: to seven leven about two cans. I just sat there.
Speaker 1: Might have bad bottle, bottle of whiskey. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty pretty crazy and it changed this
Speaker 1: guy's life, like I said, when I used to take
Speaker 1: this first ground at it, you know, and and like
Speaker 1: and I don't know more. I just want to state
Speaker 1: that that uh um, you know, his whole life has
Speaker 1: been changed, right as he machinists by trade or what
Speaker 1: was he again? It works at the lumber yard and
Speaker 1: you know he I mean, he couldn't do his job,
Speaker 1: and he's gone through X amount of um plastic surgery
Speaker 1: or a reconstructive surgery and rehab and and and that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you know, and so um, it's not
Speaker 1: a joke, you know, that said. I just want to
Speaker 1: stay too though, like you know, as they give crazy
Speaker 1: stats about everything nowadays, he had a better chance of
Speaker 1: being struck by lightning to be attacked by a bear.
Speaker 1: But for whatever, you know, you still gotta respect him,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to put a fear in people's
Speaker 1: hearts that you know, every bear we see here is
Speaker 1: gonna come out. You know, I've never had to pull
Speaker 1: the trigger yet on a bear, right, so I mean
Speaker 1: on being charged or bluff charged or whatever. And uh,
Speaker 1: but it can happen. To add this back into stock
Speaker 1: on bears, though you're exactly right about the statistic that
Speaker 1: you know, you'd be, you'd be higher probability to be
Speaker 1: instruct my lightning, but his bear hunters we are in
Speaker 1: a whole other category. I mean, that's a statistic of
Speaker 1: all people on the planet. I mean typically. I had
Speaker 1: a buddy tell me that twenty one year old kid,
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, and we were talking about bear
Speaker 1: tax or something, and I was like, I was kind
Speaker 1: of the same way, just like, I mean, it didn't
Speaker 1: even cross my mind. And he said, Clay, do you
Speaker 1: realize that you, of all people, probably have you know,
Speaker 1: higher odds have been attacked by a bear just because
Speaker 1: of you're around it. How many times you're hunting them
Speaker 1: off the ground? Was you know? And I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're probably right, But now you're right though, Gary,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no reason to fear them, but massive
Speaker 1: reason to respect them. We'll put massive. Yeah, we're much
Speaker 1: higher odds than people living in downtown Vancouver. Yeah, it'll
Speaker 1: never happen there, so yeah, I know, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I keep Yeah, Atlantic gets mad at me. I said,
Speaker 1: that's probably how it's gonna be That's how you're gonna go.
Speaker 1: Probably gonna be a grizzly and it's gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: I won't be paying attention. I hope not. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: aware what's going on. You know, we'll see hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds between jeff I and Ryan by the time this,
Speaker 1: you know, our our five six weeks is done here,
Speaker 1: you know. Um yeah, we'll see a lot a lot
Speaker 1: of bears and you're tracking I mean bears, and it's
Speaker 1: just part of the game, you know. I've I've said
Speaker 1: before that probably the most dangerous thing that we do
Speaker 1: as bear hunters, as tracking bears. I mean, I've never
Speaker 1: once had a close encounter with a wounded bear, but
Speaker 1: that's probably the most vulnerable situation because you are a
Speaker 1: little bit out of your element. You've already killed an animal,
Speaker 1: and so you're not in sneak mode anymore. You're halfway
Speaker 1: celebrating because you've you feel like you've taken an animal.
Speaker 1: I mean, most of the time you're tracking anim what
Speaker 1: do you think you're gonna find it? And it's gonna
Speaker 1: be dead, and so you know, you're you're in a
Speaker 1: different mode than before the kill, and uh yeah, I've
Speaker 1: thought about that more and more as I've as I've
Speaker 1: hunted more and more. It's like, if there was a
Speaker 1: place where you probably had higher odds of taking a
Speaker 1: bear charge, it could be on a wounded animal. Well,
Speaker 1: and my whole, my whole view has changed since what happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, Like I'm not as aggressive. Like if you
Speaker 1: had a boar and a sow and they went into
Speaker 1: the thick brush before I would charge and a wolf
Speaker 1: and have my hunter right behind me because he'll face off.
Speaker 1: You know, he'll be in there, like what's going on.
Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore because it's stupid. Basically, I
Speaker 1: think about it, and my boss just called me stupid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wasn't talking about you, Gary necessarily, but we both
Speaker 1: do it. It was effective, but they're aggressive. I've had
Speaker 1: a vehicle charge by an aggressive boar black bear with
Speaker 1: a sow, and and now we're we're resort more to
Speaker 1: predator calls. Mostly later we get a lot more brush,
Speaker 1: a lot more jungle as it grows, and you don't
Speaker 1: really you have to pull him out. And so now
Speaker 1: we're pulling him out with with the pressure calls a
Speaker 1: little phelps call, Hey, this is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a segue here, but pred your call. So yesterday they're
Speaker 1: all the way across the field, Brent and Gary, and
Speaker 1: I'm stalking and we don't have any communication of the
Speaker 1: just line of sight. And every now and then I
Speaker 1: threw up my binos and we'll be trying to get
Speaker 1: some information from them about where this bear was. And
Speaker 1: I ducked into the timber and they were seeing a
Speaker 1: bear that I wasn't seeing, and they were like, how
Speaker 1: we're gonna get his attention? And uh, Gary goes, well,
Speaker 1: I'll predator call at him. And so they're just I guess,
Speaker 1: just wearing this predator call out over there. I just
Speaker 1: blew it a few times. Yeah, and I don't hear
Speaker 1: the predator call. And then Brent goes, well, clayo respond
Speaker 1: to a bared owl. If I bared owl at him,
Speaker 1: he'll respond, and uh so Gary goes, okay, bart awl
Speaker 1: at him. So he's and it never occurred to me
Speaker 1: at what I thought. I told Brent. This's yesterday. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, they got bared owls in Canada, and
Speaker 1: then over there trying to they're just trying to flag
Speaker 1: me down. Finally, Gary walks over to me and he's like, way,
Speaker 1: did you not hear us? Here's alan pressure colin a
Speaker 1: little bit, a little bit. Yeah, he did, he did.
Speaker 1: It was it was it was like, why didn't you hear?
Speaker 1: And then I told him I'm literally deaf? Am I
Speaker 1: right here? No? No, no really, it was like it
Speaker 1: was like it was getting mad at me for not
Speaker 1: being a walk but I was in a wheelchair. I said, Gary,
Speaker 1: in my right ear, I have lost like sixty of
Speaker 1: my hearing. I cannot hear of my right here. But
Speaker 1: I did hear the bar down and then he felt bad.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I know I've seen it a hundred times.
Speaker 1: He takes it serious. I like it, man, you know, really,
Speaker 1: when you're when you're with the god, I want a
Speaker 1: god that's got an opinion and it's got what wants
Speaker 1: you to do stuff. Because I've been with him that
Speaker 1: that don't you know they're just kind of there to
Speaker 1: appease you so you don't lack opinions usually. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm getting better though, I know, I just don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've grown up a little bit. It's taking me fifty
Speaker 1: some years, but I'm growing up dating opinions though I
Speaker 1: don't get paid enough to do this job. No, we did.
Speaker 1: We did. Uh. At one point yesterday we were looking
Speaker 1: at a bear and Gary had the buyos and at
Speaker 1: the time I had forgot my bonos and and uh,
Speaker 1: and I said that that bear is walking away from
Speaker 1: us and he said, he said, no, it's not Clay.
Speaker 1: And I said, Gary, the bear is walking away from us,
Speaker 1: and he said, no, it's not. And I mean I
Speaker 1: was confident. I said that bear is walking away from me.
Speaker 1: I honestly thought that Jeff told you to do something
Speaker 1: to get a reaction. Not I thought you were messing
Speaker 1: with me. And then he was like, looked at the
Speaker 1: buyos and I was like, the bears walking towards us.
Speaker 1: So usually right, Usually, yeah, he's usually right. I've learned that. Well,
Speaker 1: all this talk about like bear attacks and stuff, I
Speaker 1: think it's relevant. It's a relevant conversation with stocking bears
Speaker 1: on the ground. I mean, and it's really not something
Speaker 1: that bear hunters are really thinking about too much, but
Speaker 1: they probably shouldn't. Things they do that you need to
Speaker 1: pay attention to, right, like when you're when we're close
Speaker 1: to him, like let's say, a sal with a cub
Speaker 1: she's making a bunch of racket whatever whatever. But there's
Speaker 1: different you know, popping to the teeth, hitting their things.
Speaker 1: But ironically, the last, usually the last thing they do
Speaker 1: before it's going to be a situation is yawn. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they open their mouths, and that's when they're to their
Speaker 1: breaking point. It's bizarre. Yeah, And you know, obviously with
Speaker 1: sALS of cubs where we might take some photos, but
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't mess around too much with them.
Speaker 1: Even though style black bear isn't necessarily going to finish
Speaker 1: out an attack like like a like a grizzly, But
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's things that they do that and
Speaker 1: mostly those boards. They start popping their shoulders walking, you know,
Speaker 1: just like they know you're there. Their posturing like any
Speaker 1: other thing, like a grouse that you see puffing up,
Speaker 1: and so there's ways to read them too. That's enough,
Speaker 1: We've got to back out of here. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: this is he's pretty serious. Yeah, we'll see if he's
Speaker 1: with this with this girl, you know he's and see,
Speaker 1: I think these BC bears are probably different than I
Speaker 1: don't know, for whatever reason, it seems like and I
Speaker 1: think I'm going with just statistics that I've heard, seems
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of predatory bear attacks here. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. For some reason, I feel like these
Speaker 1: these black bears are slightly different than black bears into
Speaker 1: the places. There's some places. I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 1: I've been told that actually a few times. I mean,
Speaker 1: like in Arkansas, we have a for for the areas
Speaker 1: that do have bears. I mean, we've got some places
Speaker 1: that very small places that might be equivalent to the
Speaker 1: very population here. Let's just say like there's a small
Speaker 1: really well you know, habit areas with good habitat. And
Speaker 1: I mean there hadn't been a bear attack in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: I mean I think one two or three summers ago,
Speaker 1: a bear drugs somebody out of a tin or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, but it didn't nothing ever happened. It was
Speaker 1: almost like a curious young bear or something. But I mean,
Speaker 1: we just don't have these problems. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot. I mean really there's few between.
Speaker 1: And it's usually in places that are populator, Yeah, like parks,
Speaker 1: provincial parks, federal parks. I mean that's where actually more
Speaker 1: hot springs. Yeah, we're more of the really serious attacks
Speaker 1: ever happened than in the hunting community or what we're
Speaker 1: doing right, Like, hands down, that's actually probably where of
Speaker 1: them happened. That's how that's how drastic it is, where
Speaker 1: bears get used to humans and being around humans and
Speaker 1: then just you know, something goes Yeah they're feeding them
Speaker 1: and uh and yet you know that's what certain people
Speaker 1: want you to believe, this whole Walt Disney thing, right,
Speaker 1: and that's that's where the attacks hoppen, when you start
Speaker 1: messing with them like that around here, like it's far
Speaker 1: and far and new, but a few between. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: never I mean we've had a few it, you know,
Speaker 1: after they've been shot that you know, like you're saying
Speaker 1: you're tracking them and you're not really paying attention. All
Speaker 1: sudden they stand up and they're right right there to
Speaker 1: finish them off. But not very only aggressive behavior we've
Speaker 1: had is in the rut. Yeah have you ever been
Speaker 1: how many times have you been charged by gris or
Speaker 1: have you? I don't think I have. All my guides
Speaker 1: do yeah, yeah, or have yeah? Yeah, I've had some
Speaker 1: close encounters with them, but no, I haven't had to
Speaker 1: trying to think. No, I haven't had to kill any
Speaker 1: Usually Gary's the one who gets taken the church. He he,
Speaker 1: he kind of likes it, gets a kick out of it. No, No,
Speaker 1: I've been I've been fortunate. But you know, my other guy, Aaron,
Speaker 1: he's had oh he's a multiple on the river, you
Speaker 1: know during grizzly hunting. You know, usually those situations happen
Speaker 1: in the fall, cal calling from moose come in, or
Speaker 1: a dead moose or a grizzly that gets arrowed. You know,
Speaker 1: two years ago, the last year that we had tags,
Speaker 1: my blo hunter hit one close and when he was
Speaker 1: taken off, Aaron shot him, but he just winged him
Speaker 1: on the shoulder and that things spotted and came right
Speaker 1: at him and he had to kill him. But by
Speaker 1: and large it's been you know, lots of black bear
Speaker 1: false charges and aggressive but nothing that that have felt
Speaker 1: things were getting out of control. But you know, I
Speaker 1: mean we take a very I mean, when a moose
Speaker 1: is down, you have one guy who is standing there.
Speaker 1: You have to you have and there's probably not gonna
Speaker 1: be any situation. But you hear these stories of you know,
Speaker 1: the bears that are coming in. Last year, they were hungry,
Speaker 1: very few berries and and you know there alright. So yeah,
Speaker 1: hey in closing, talking about the nitty grittyest spotting stock
Speaker 1: black bear hunting, trying to get close archer equipment. Gary,
Speaker 1: we'll start with you. What what are you gonna say? What?
Speaker 1: What are your what are your top tips hot tips
Speaker 1: for stocking black bears? What would you say? Yeah? Close
Speaker 1: that this It's like we spoke about it. Clothes as
Speaker 1: fast as you can. The wind changes. There's certain areas
Speaker 1: of wind doesn't change like on the old logging road.
Speaker 1: It's so consistent there. I mean, I love that spot,
Speaker 1: including u higher, but we didn't have snow. You have
Speaker 1: the you know the wind, you're fair. But when you
Speaker 1: start hunting these fields in the corners and in the
Speaker 1: down draft coming in the evening, you figure just keeps
Speaker 1: some coming down, get the win your favor and go
Speaker 1: on them. Uh getting on them. But uh, um man
Speaker 1: just swirls in those back corners, right, and we've experienced
Speaker 1: that already a few times. Um yeah, pay attention to them,
Speaker 1: like you know, um maker moves and they're not looking
Speaker 1: at you, and they're like you'd stalk any animal when
Speaker 1: they're um not you know, looking at you and facing away.
Speaker 1: Um and man, they're hearing. It's a lot better than
Speaker 1: people think. I remember, I'm not dealing this on a
Speaker 1: rifle hunt or even so much on compound. But wouldn't
Speaker 1: like with you want to get in within twenty yards. Um,
Speaker 1: you can't make anything. You cannot make literally mistake and
Speaker 1: it will happen. I mean, I know, well you know,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're gonna get one. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're just smarter. They're smarter than you think. So don't
Speaker 1: just take it for granted. Well there's another big bear.
Speaker 1: I can just walk up to it. They get big
Speaker 1: for reason. They're not stupid. And um, you know, do
Speaker 1: that stock like you wouldn't you know, the most hardest
Speaker 1: hunt is white till that you ever see it. I
Speaker 1: think that's that's the thing right there. That Um, and
Speaker 1: again not that I've taken anything for granted, but you
Speaker 1: gotta stock these bears like you're stuck in stocking an antelope.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's gotta be the mentality. It's like
Speaker 1: you can't give him anythings, right, you know, do your
Speaker 1: draw I've had we've had perfect situations where everything's worked out,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about strictly both hunts right here. And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm telling the hunter to draw. I need to go,
Speaker 1: so I can only hold for thirty seconds, So what
Speaker 1: let down? If that's all you can hold, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's better. And he draws on the you know when
Speaker 1: they look at you, well, no, they're they're gone, They're
Speaker 1: they're done. Even though it's forty yards away, they're looking
Speaker 1: at you come to draw. I mean they're gonna notice
Speaker 1: that movement, right, So yeah, just take don't take it
Speaker 1: for granted, especially if you know you really want to
Speaker 1: go after a bigger bear. Bigger they are, the smarter
Speaker 1: they are, and um, and yeah, do it like you're
Speaker 1: hunting elk, like you're hunting a white you know. And
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason too. This is a little
Speaker 1: bit confusing to people. Is on a bated black bear hunt.
Speaker 1: Movement and scent pretty much mean nothing Canada. But when
Speaker 1: he doesn't know that there's a human involved, it's a
Speaker 1: whole another ball game. And I think that's the that's
Speaker 1: the contradiction that people have because you know, go to
Speaker 1: you go to Canada and abated black bear hunt. You
Speaker 1: could stand up and I mean movement sound and even
Speaker 1: human scent is not the limiting factor. But buddy, when
Speaker 1: you're trying to slip up on one out in his element,
Speaker 1: it's a whole another whole other game. Jeff hot tip.
Speaker 1: One thing you could tell I'm fading into the bush
Speaker 1: for the last time before you see me on the
Speaker 1: stalk and you say, clay X, do this. What do
Speaker 1: you say? Two things? I would take your first opportunity, Like,
Speaker 1: if you're in your if you're in your comfortable range,
Speaker 1: shoot you got the shots. Don't don't wait for him
Speaker 1: to Second of all, if he does bolt, move up
Speaker 1: because big boars. Often we'll go into the bush and
Speaker 1: turn around and see what's going on. Okay, so moving
Speaker 1: on him. They're cocked And would you say, like, don't
Speaker 1: I mean, just like run up there. I wouldn't run
Speaker 1: up there. But he's not necessarily gonna just bail into
Speaker 1: the next county he wanted. If he doesn't smell, he
Speaker 1: doesn't really know what you are. But he's cocky arrogant
Speaker 1: enough that he'll usually come and see what's going on,
Speaker 1: and you can and often you can move in closer
Speaker 1: and if you get a second opportunity. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good tip. That was lost to you. Yeah, where the
Speaker 1: bear comes back out five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: an hour later in the same spot. Right, so especially
Speaker 1: it's a big bear. It's the bear you want, right
Speaker 1: and you're excited about Yeah, go go step back up,
Speaker 1: keep the wind you're facing. There's a good chance he
Speaker 1: might come back out. Yeah. Yeah, they're cocky. Just get
Speaker 1: some killed. Yeah it does. Yeah. Hey, that's some awesome information.
Speaker 1: And uh, we're gonna do We're gonna do a couple
Speaker 1: more podcasts are here in British Columbia. This is the
Speaker 1: fourth day, so we got a couple of days left
Speaker 1: to hunt. But thank you guys. Ton. Yeah. Man, well
Speaker 1: it keeps the wild places wild because that's where the
Speaker 1: bears live. Yeah,