1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. One of our previous episodes that got a 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: very quick name drop in our most recent installment of 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Unearthed was Christine de pisign so I thought we would 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: bring out our episode on her as Today's Saturday Classic. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: This originally came out September fifth, twenty eighteen. Enjoy Welcome 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Hello, and Welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. Christine de Pisan pretty much 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: frequently summed up as a late medieval writer, but the 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: word writer just does not encompass everything that she did 11 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: at all. She wrote all kinds of verse. She wrote 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: military manuals and treatises on war and peace and the 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: just governance of a nation. She wrote an autobiogra in 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: the form of an allegory. She was the official biographer 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: of King Charles the Fifth of France, and she wrote 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: the only popular piece of writing that praised Joan of 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: Arc while Joan of Arc was still living. She also 18 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: wrote the Book of the City of Ladies, which is 19 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: a compilation of notable women from history, literature, and mythology. 20 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: That was one part of her very active participation in 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: an ongoing debate in medieval France about the nature of 22 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: women and their representation in history and literature, something we 23 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: still discussed today, and until Christine got involved, this argument 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: had mostly been more exclusively really been going on among men. 25 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: So she was pretty great, we're gonna talk about it today. 26 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Christine de Paizsan was born in Venice, Italy, in thirteen 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: sixty four. Her father was Tamaso di Benvenuto di Pazzano, 28 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: or Thomas of Pissan, who was a government advisor and 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: a professor there and not long after Christine was born, though, 30 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: he was a pointed to the court of Charles the 31 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: fifth of France to serve as the king's medical adviser 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: and astrologer, or his medical astrologer. These two things were 33 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: pretty tightly connected at that point. When Christine was three 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: or four, she and the rest of the family joined 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: her father in France. Her father was a humanist and 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: a highly educated man, and he made sure all of 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: his children were educated. He gave Christine the same education 38 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: that he gave to his sons. Growing up in the 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: court of Charles the fifth also gave Christine and her 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: siblings access to extensive libraries and numerous prominent scholars. Charles 41 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: the Fifth was nicknamed Charles the Wise, and he surrounded 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: himself with cultured, educated people, and he assembled an incredible 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: library at the Louver. So by her early teens, Christine 44 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: was well read and well educated, and the breadth of 45 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: her reading was just incredible. It set her up to 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: write about everything from love to military strategy later in 47 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: her life. When she was about fifteen, a marriage was 48 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: arranged for Christine. It was to court notary Etienne Duquestell, 49 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: who was about twenty five. The same year that they 50 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: got married, Etienne was appointed court secretary in spite of 51 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: her youth when they got married and the difference in 52 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: their ages, Christine described this marriage as a very happy one. 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: They had three children together, two sons and a daughter, 54 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: and Etienne encouraged Christine to continue her studies after she 55 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: got married and became a mother. But things started going 56 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: downhill for Christine and her previously happy family. In thirteen eighty, 57 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: Charles the Fifth died of an abscess at the age 58 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: of forty two, and he was succeeded by his son, 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: Charles the sixth. We actually did a podcast on Charles 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: the sixth in August of twenty seventeen. He was the 61 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: one who initially showed a lot of promise as a leader, 62 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: but then developed cycles of terrifying and violent psychosis when 63 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: he reached his early twenties. When Charles the fifth died, 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: though Charles the sixth was only a lie, so his 65 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: uncles were doing most of the actual ruling and all 66 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: the political back and forth in court, Christine's father lost 67 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: his position at Tienne still had his post as secretary, 68 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: but he was being paid a lot less, so the 69 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: family fell into financial difficulty, and that was compounded when 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: Christine's father died sometime in the late thirteen eighties. Then 71 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: Christine's husband died suddenly in thirteen ninety, possibly due to 72 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: plague while he was away from home on a mission 73 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: for the crown. So at the age of twenty five 74 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: or twenty six, after ten years of marriage, Christine was 75 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: a widow with children to support because of her father's death. 76 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: She also needed to support her elderly mother, and the 77 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: family had taken in a niece as well. It does 78 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: appear that in all of this Christine had inherited some property. 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: She was entitled some of her late husband's salary as well, 80 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: but actually getting any of this became this really complicated 81 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: legal tangle that was exacerbated by the fact that she 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: was a woman, which made it a lot harder for 83 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: her to advocate for herself in all of these matters. 84 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: Was eventually resolved after about fifteen years, but that did 85 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: not help her at all in the meantime. Yeah, fifteen 86 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: years is a long time to have financial struggles while 87 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: you try to get what is due to you, right, 88 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: That's a long time to have to deal with them. 89 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: Christine did have other family that she could have gone 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: to live with, or she could have remarried. Either of 91 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: those would have been the typical course of action for 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: a woman in her situation, but she didn't want to 93 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: do that, in part because she was so heartbroken following 94 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: the death of her husband, so she decided to try 95 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: to earn a living as a writer. This is kind 96 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: of a theme on the show. We've done a number 97 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: of previous episodes about women who decided to earn a 98 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: living by writing. This is because for big chunks of history, 99 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: writing has been one of a very few available options 100 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: for women from the more affluent social classes to try 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: to earn their own money. At the same time, writing 102 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily totally acceptable, and sometimes it was only possible 103 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: while writing under the name of a man. But for 104 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: a particular social class it was one of a very, 105 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: very few options. But there is a really big difference 106 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: between Christine de Paizan and other women that we've talked 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: about on the podcast who decided to earn their own 108 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: money as writers. She lived before the invention of the 109 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: printing press. There were multiple printing methods in use in 110 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: Asia long before this, but in the West, Johann Gutenberg 111 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: is credited with developing a press that used movable type 112 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: sometime in the early to mid fourteen hundreds. Christine died 113 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: long before Gutenberg printed his Bible and long before the 114 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: printing press revolutionized the way publishing worked in the West. 115 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: So unlike the other women that we've talked about on 116 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: the show who made their living by writing, she was 117 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: not writing books to sell to the masses or through subscriptions. 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: There wasn't a mass distribution method that was efficient at all. 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: To sum it up, Christine de Pizon was going to 120 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: try to make a living as a writer of medieval 121 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: illuminated manuscripts. The very few people who earned a living 122 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: writing at this point were doing so by writing commissioned 123 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: works for wealthy patrons. It was virtually unheard of for 124 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: a woman to go out seeking patrons, but Christine did. 125 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: It definitely helped that she had so many connections from 126 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: having grown up connected to the royal court and from 127 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: being the widow of a court secretary. It also helped 128 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: that she started out writing the kinds of pieces that 129 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: were really popular at the time, including lyric poems and allegories. 130 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: Love poems were especially popular, and Christine had a lot 131 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: to draw from. She really channeled her grief over her 132 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: husband's death into a lot of her early work, and 133 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: she called her happier love poems written during this time, 134 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: singing joyously with a sad heart. Her first commissions were 135 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: short pieces for members of the French nobility, or she 136 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: would dedicate a poem to someone who would then give 137 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: her a gift as a gesture of thanks. In less 138 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: than a year, her work was being passed around and 139 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: read outside of France. By fourteen oh three, she had 140 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: written enough poems to turn them into a collection that 141 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: was one hundred ballad verlais erndou and those are three 142 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: different poetic forms. She also made ends meet by doing 143 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: transcriptions and illustrations of other people's work. In May of 144 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: thirteen ninety nine, while she was still writing the poems 145 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: that would later become that first collection, she also wrote 146 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: an eight hundred and sixty verse poem called The Letters 147 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: of the God of Love or the Letters of Cupid, 148 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: written in the form of a letter to Cupid during 149 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: a spring festival. Although sometimes it's translated as a letter 150 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: from Cupid. There's a lot of variety in how people 151 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: approach her work and translating it. In this work, women 152 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: from a range of social classes, married and unmarried, describe 153 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: a number of insults and degradations that they have experienced 154 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: in their lives. And these insults and degradations are not 155 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: just from knights and nobles and other real life men, 156 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: or from the general expectations of society. They're from works 157 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: of literature, including Roman de la Rose or The Romance 158 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: of the Rose. Roman de la Rose was a very long, 159 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: incredibly popular, and widely read poem about love. According to 160 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: the Letters of Cupid, it was one of the things 161 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: that was causing offense to women. The conclusion of this 162 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: poem wasn't about love at all. It was about deception 163 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: and unscrupulous men taking advantage of women's trust. Letters of 164 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: Cupid seems to have spawned a literary quarrel, Or if 165 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: it didn't start that quarrel, it was at least written 166 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: two years before the quaral started in fourteen oh one. 167 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: And we're going to get to that after we first 168 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: pause for a little break from one of the sponsors 169 00:09:51,920 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: that keeps us going. When GUILLLM. De Laurie started writing 170 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: Romando la Rose in the late twelve thirties, it was 171 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: supposed to explore the whole art of love, so poem 172 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: that was deeply connected to the traditional poetic forms and 173 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: the themes of courtly love that were a huge part 174 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: of medieval European literature. If you have read medieval European literature, 175 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: you will recognize these things. This poem is a dream 176 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: allegory that tells the story of a man in a 177 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: walled garden who's trying to get to a rose, and 178 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: that rose symbolizes love. Along the way, he meets characters 179 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: like beauty and generosity, and honesty and chastity. He's also 180 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: shot by Cupid's arrows and the rose is given more 181 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: and more protection, and those allegorical characters like beauty and 182 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: generosity coach him in a very courtly way in the 183 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Pursuit of Love. Guillum died around twelve seventy eight, and 184 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: about forty years later Jean de Muenz decided to add 185 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: to the poem, and it's this additional material that was 186 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: at the heart of the quarrel of the Rose. Written 187 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: in a very body suggestive style in Jean de Mouen's edition, 188 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: the narrator goes on a lengthy battle before calling on Venus, 189 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: who represents carnal love, to set fire to the castle 190 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: where the rose is being sheltered and then pluck it. 191 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: There is a lot of violence and deception involved, and 192 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: it is basically the opposite of the tone in the 193 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: first part of the poem. Jean de Muen's ending to 194 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: the Roman de la Rose was at the heart of 195 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: a multi year literary quarrel among the French court. Two 196 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: years after Christine de Pisan criticized it and her Letters 197 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: of Cupid, another Jeanne Jean de Montroyx, wrote an essay 198 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: praising the body violent ending. So it's not one hundred 199 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: percent clear whether he had read the Letters of Cupid, 200 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: but she definitely made this point before he wrote his 201 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: defense of this poem. The text of the essay has 202 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: not survived until today, but concurring with his opinions were 203 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: Gontier Cole and his brother Pierre. Jean de Montroux and 204 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: Gontier Cole were both secretaries to Charles the sixth and 205 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: Pierre was the canon of Notre Dame. After reading this 206 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: essay in fourteen oh one, Christine wrote Jean a lengthy 207 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: letter taking apart all of his points. She pointed out 208 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: not only the poem's graphic, suggestive language and its violence 209 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: and deception, but also the fact that a lot of 210 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: the most negative allegorical characters were depicted as women. She 211 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: made it very clear that she did not think that 212 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: the second part of Roman de la Rose was worth 213 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: the giant heaps of praise that he had given it 214 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: in this essay. Really, she did not pull any punches 215 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: with this. Here is something she wrote in this letter quote, 216 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: It truly seems to me that, in view of the 217 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: aforementioned arguments and many others, this work should more fittingly 218 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: be engulfed in a shroud of flame than crowned with laurel. 219 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: Even though you call it quote a mirror of the 220 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: good life, an example to all classes for political self 221 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: conduct and for living religiously and wisely. On the contrary, 222 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: begging your pardon, I say that it is an exhortation 223 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: to vice that encourages a dissolute life, a doctrine of deceit, 224 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: a path to damnation, a purveyor of public defamation, a 225 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: cause of suspicion and distrust, a source of shame to 226 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: many people, and perhaps a seed of heresy. This led 227 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: to a whole series of exchanged essays and letters, with 228 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Jean y'osson, Chancellor of the University of Paris, taking Christine's 229 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: side in the debate. Although a lot of the debate 230 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: was about the poem's more graphic content and its treatment 231 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: and depiction of women, it was also connected to overall 232 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: concerns of poetic style and language and whether it was 233 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: appropriate for a formal work of verse to include that 234 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: kind of subject matter. Christine's argument also connected to the 235 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: idea that Jean de Muen had a responsibility as a 236 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: writer with an audience, and that was a responsibility not 237 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: to go sneaking a bunch of misogyny into a work 238 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: under the trappings of formal poetry and courtly love. Christine 239 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: also thought that writers should be creating work that would 240 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: improve society, not make it worse, and they especially shouldn't 241 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: be making society worse by using respectable poetic forms to 242 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: degrade women. I feel like I have lived through this 243 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: exact same argument on the internet over and over for 244 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: the last entire history of the Internet. Yeah, that seems 245 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: accurate to me. By the time this was all said 246 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: and done, Christine had written almost as much on the 247 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: subject as all of the other people involved combined. She 248 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: wrote in a very self deprecating, self effacing way, and 249 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: as with her other works, she wrote in Middle French 250 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: while the men were writing in formal Latin. Her tone 251 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: was often like, I know, I'm only a woman, and 252 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: I'm not nearly so learned as you, sir, but I 253 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: think I have some experience with this, and here is 254 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: why the end of Romando la Rose is sexist garbage, 255 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: deserving no praise at all. She also collated all the 256 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: exchanged letters in fourteen oh two, and she delivered them 257 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: to the Provost of Paris and Charles the sixth wife 258 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: Isabeau of Bavaria. Asking for their support. She brought the 259 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: receipts directly there she did. The Quarrel of the Rose 260 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: also led to Christine writing her most famous work, The 261 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: Book of the City of Ladies. Like Romandela Rose, this 262 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: is a dream allegory. It's one with Christine as a character. 263 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: It begins with the character Christine studying and she finds 264 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: book after book, all of them written by men, describing 265 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: women as wicked and full of vice. The character Christine 266 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: finally becomes convinced if so many great and educated men 267 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: have written so many negative things about women, then surely 268 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: those things must be true. She goes so far as 269 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: to ask God God, how he could have made something 270 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: as terrible as women, and to wish that she had 271 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: instead been a man, since, according to all this literary 272 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: evidence in front of her, women were worthless and men 273 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: were great. The character Christine is then visited by three 274 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: ladies Reason, Rectitude, and Justice, who offer her comfort and 275 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: reassurance that all these things she has been reading against 276 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: women are indeed false. They say that they have been 277 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: charged with traveling the earth to help people get back 278 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: on the right path. They charge Christine with building a 279 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: city quote, so that from now on, ladies and all 280 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: valiant women may have a refuge and defense. Christine and 281 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: the Three Ladies go on to build a city together, 282 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: along the way, picking apart various attacks on women and 283 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: pointing out hypocrisies, like, for example, how Avid's portrayal of 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: women was degrading, but the man himself was a vain philanderer. 285 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: And while building this city, Christine and the Three Ladies 286 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: talk about a long list of mythical and historical women, 287 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: including the Amazons, Zenobia, Sappho, and the biblical figures of Sarah, Rebecca, 288 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: and Ruth. The Three Ladies go on to tell Christine 289 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: about queens and princesses, and women's scholars and poets. The 290 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: book's third section is all about saints and other holy women, 291 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: and they also talk over a lot of more general questions, 292 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: like why there aren't women arguing in the courts of 293 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: law and whether a woman has ever invented anything new. 294 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: The Book of the City of Ladies was a work 295 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: of literature created intentionally to offer a positive portrayal of 296 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: women and to offset widespread depictions of women as weak, deceptive, 297 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: and moral. To counteract depictions of women as deceptive and unfaithful. 298 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: It offers examples of chastity, constancy, and faithfulness in love. 299 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: To counteract depictions of women as deceptive and dishonest, it 300 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: offers examples of integrity, honesty, and good It also points 301 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: out in numerous places is how there are fewer examples 302 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: of women as scholars and leaders because women had fewer 303 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: opportunities to get the education that they needed to become 304 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: scholars or the experience they needed to become leaders, and 305 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: among other things, the book explicitly advocates for girls to 306 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: get the same education as their brothers. The Book of 307 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: the City of Ladies wasn't the first book to compile 308 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: the biographies of real and mythical women into one volume. 309 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: Giovanni Boccaccio's Concerning Famous Women was written about thirty years 310 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: before that and was the only major work at the 311 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: time to do so. Concerning Famous Women was one of 312 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: Christine de Paisan's inspirations, but The Book of the City 313 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: of Ladies was Europe's first book of this type to 314 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: be written by a woman from a woman's perspective. Christine 315 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: de Paisan took a copy of this book to Isabe 316 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: of Bavaria, just like she had all of those letters. 317 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: There's an illustration of that encounter of Christine delivering her 318 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: book to Isabee. In fourteen oh five, Christine wrote a 319 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: follow up to the Book of the City of Ladies 320 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: that was called The Treasure of the City of Ladies, 321 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: also sometimes known as the Book of the Three Virtues. 322 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: It's a conduct manual for women, which in some ways 323 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: is really conventional as the Book of the City of 324 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: Lady was when it comes to things like the treatment 325 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: of marriage and gender roles. It assumes that marriage and 326 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: motherhood are how the world works for women, and it 327 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: advises women on how to get the best and most 328 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: satisfying lives for themselves within that world. There is a 329 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: lot about duty and virtue, but at the same time, 330 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: the Book of the Three Virtues also points out that 331 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: expectations placed on women were impossible to live up to, 332 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: and rather than being framed as this is how you 333 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: should conduct yourself because it's what God wants and what 334 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: your husband expects, it's more like, this is how you 335 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: should conduct yourself to get the best possible place for 336 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: yourself in the situation that you're in. It's more about 337 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: women improving their quality of life than about women living 338 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: up to social expectations. And there's also a lot of 339 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: encouragement for women to be self sufficient, whether they are 340 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: a widow pondering remarriage or a married woman considering how 341 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: much of a role to play in the management of 342 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: her household. I read one description of this book as 343 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: I was researching this that called it Machiavelli for medieval 344 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: French women. Like Christine's other writing, the Book of Virtues 345 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: is steeped in a sense of Christian virtue and piety. 346 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: This probably offered her some protection as an incredibly outspoken 347 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: woman who was pointing out and contradicting sexism and misogyny 348 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: over and over and over again. That made it kind 349 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: of hard to criticize what she was doing without also 350 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: looking like you were criticizing Christian values. I mean, she 351 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: did get criticism, but this buffered it a little. Christine 352 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: de Paisan didn't only address women in her writing about conduct. 353 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: Her Moral Teachings was a collection of advice written in 354 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: verse for her son Jean Duquastell as he was leaving 355 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: to go to England to be fostered, and she also 356 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: wrote a lot of advicement for kings and nobility, and 357 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: we're going to talk more about that after a quick 358 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: sponsor break. By the time Christine de pisign wrote the 359 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: Book of the City of Ladies, she had become well 360 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: known enough that she was getting commissions for work that 361 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: were well outside of those popular poetic forms that we 362 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: talked about earlier. Philip, Duke of Burgundy, commissioned her to 363 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: write a biography of his brother Charles the Fifth, in 364 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: whose court she had grown up. He made that commission 365 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: in fourteen oh four. The One Hundred Years War was 366 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: going on during the entirety of Christine's life, and much 367 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: of her work turned toward issues of war and peace. 368 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: After the death of Philip the Bold in fourteen oh four, 369 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: his son John, also known as John the Fearless, became 370 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: the Duke of Burgundy, and his ongoing dispute with Louis, 371 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: Duke of Orleans prompted Christine to write to both of 372 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: them to advocate for peace and to remind them to 373 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: their duty to their people not to go to war 374 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: at their expense. This, unfortunately did not work. The Armagnac 375 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: Burgundian Civil War started in fourteen oh seven, and that 376 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: lasted for almost thirty years. In fourteen ten, she published 377 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: a book on military leadership and tactics called The Book 378 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: of Deeds and Arms of Chivalry. This was yet another 379 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: totally unexpected thing for a woman to be doing, so 380 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: much so that people thought she might have just copied 381 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: an earlier military manual and other books of strategy to 382 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: do it. A later editor even edited her name out 383 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: of it and made it look like it was written 384 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: by a man. But this was Christine's own original work. 385 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: It was a product of her extensive study of history 386 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: and strategy and tactics, and all of that extensive reading 387 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: she had done in the Court of Charles the Fifth. 388 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: It covers all the military technology of the time as 389 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: well as tactics and strategy, and it makes a case 390 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: that peace is preferable to war, but sometimes as own 391 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: only attainable through war. She fills out her discussion of 392 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: all of this with examples from military history. She also 393 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: walks through the idea of just war, a war fought 394 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: to keep law and justice, to defend the people from 395 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: injury or oppression, or to reclaim stolen land. The book 396 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: discusses how the people fighting in the war should conduct 397 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: themselves justly, and then once the war was over, it 398 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: was incumbent on the ruling class to rule the people 399 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: in a just way. In spite of the questions about 400 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: whether Christine, who after all was a mere woman, had 401 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: just copied this book from someone else, this book was 402 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: translated into English and it became one of the first 403 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: books printed in England after William Caxton established a printing 404 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: press in Westminster. He printed it as The Fate of 405 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: Arms and Chivalry in fourteen eighty nine. We haven't really 406 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: touched on all of Christine's work because she was prolific. 407 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: Between thirteen ninety nine and about fourteen fifteen, she wrote 408 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: twelve major works totally more than a thousand pages. She 409 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: also worked directly with the scribes and illuminators who created 410 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: the finished manuscripts of her work. Throughout she was an 411 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: advocate for women as well as for justice and for peace. 412 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: She also paid careful attention to the need to improve 413 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: the lives of the poor, while also trying to encourage 414 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: a sense of charity among her readers who were likely 415 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: to be wealthy, since people in the lower class typically 416 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: were not literate. Outside of the world of her writing, 417 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: she was also very savvy. She was invited to several 418 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: royal courts outside of France, but she preferred to stay 419 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: in her adopted homeland. And she also had to be 420 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: very strategic to provide for her children in a world 421 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: where money and family and political connections were extremely important. 422 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 1: I mean, she was making the ends meet through all 423 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: of her writing, but that's not the same thing as 424 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: providing for the future of your children in this world. 425 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: She had no dowry for her daughter, but was able 426 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: to negotiate a place for her at the Royal Dominican 427 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: at Poissi and as a companion to Charles the sixth 428 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: daughter Marie. She also negotiated for her son to be 429 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: fostered with John Montague, the third Earl of Salisbury, with 430 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: the hope of ensuring him a political future. This second 431 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: part led to a whole complicated negotiation with King Henry 432 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: the Fourth to get her son back after John Montague 433 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: was a co conspirator and an uprising against him. Though 434 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: that's a whole huge drama of international intrigue in which 435 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: she had this ongoing, careful negotiation with a king to 436 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: get her son to return to France. As we noted earlier, 437 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: England and France were at war throughout Christine's entire life. 438 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: The Battle of Agincourps in fourteen to fifteen was a 439 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: massive defeat for France, and not long afterward Christine joined 440 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: her daughter at the convent in Poisi. She mostly stopped writing, 441 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: at least for public view. Around that same time, she 442 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: did come out of retirement for one last work, though. 443 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: Christine's last known piece of writing was about Joan of Arc, 444 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: and it was written to honor her after the French 445 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: victory at Orleons in fourteen twenty nine. Like we said 446 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: at the top of the show, this is the only 447 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: major work written to celebrate Joan of Arc during her lifetime. 448 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: And we don't know exactly when Christine died, but it 449 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: was sometime around fourteen thirty one in Poisi, France. I 450 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: find the whole idea of building a whole city where 451 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: the ladies can find comfort and refuge to be very comforting, 452 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: and I am glad that Christine did it. I want 453 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: to make a joke, but I think it belittles thinks, 454 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna refrain. Okay, thanks so much for joining 455 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us 456 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: a note our email addresses History podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, 457 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, 458 00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.