WEBVTT - Cruising 101 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.840 Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:08.160 queer sex, filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:12.400 If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.000 offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:20.040 discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:20.599 Gabe. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.120 Yes, Chris, tell me about your hottest cruising experience. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.440 I've got to say I once was very curious about 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.480 the Blue Store rip and I had never been there before, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.080 and everybody was like, oh, the video boosts at the 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:35.760 Blue Store, and I was like, well, let me go 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.000 try a piece of queer history. I went downstairs to 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.320 the video booths and there was nobody. There was like 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.880 me and this older guy who had clearly also taken 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:46.960 his lunch break. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.920 To go to the bus. And I was like, all right, baby, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.840 it's you and me. Guy. Let's it. We're either staring 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.920 at a screen or we're gonna make the most of this. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:56.760 And it was one of those things where it was 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.600 like neither of us were what the other one was 0:00:58.600 --> 0:00:59.880 looking for, but we were like this could be. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.040 Yeah. It was like a really good. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.240 Hookup did in an exchange a name, didn't exchange number, 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.920 like absolutely nothing, and then we just left and I 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:07.920 never saw that personally again. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.160 It was really it was fun, how about you. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.360 It was late one night and I was headed to 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.560 a friend's house to stay in the city. I'm supposed 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.880 to going to Brooklyn and there's this like hot guy 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.960 who's like on the other side of the door, and 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.720 like we're making eyes at each other, making eyes. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.440 There's a door between you, well. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.959 You know, like the subway door, and then see yeah, yeah, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.360 So like I'm like looking over and I like, I 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.319 I'm like, it's kind of hot. Two stops and then 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.360 he comes and sits in front of me. He starts adjusting. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.560 I started adjusting. We start playing with each other with 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.720 the with with ourselves, and uh, finally he just like 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.520 motions for me to get off the train. We get 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.840 off the train and we like hook up on the 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.680 train platform. We don't say a word this entire time, 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:56.920 and then wait for the next train that was coming 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.160 in like six minutes. Get on the train. He gets 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.320 off of the next time. I give a little nod 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.559 and uh, yeah, I'm tracking hot. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.400 I am coming into this episode like a cruising novice 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.520 like I need a cruising one O one, you're like 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.720 grad school Like ready, h for. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.760 Sure she holds multiple degrees in cruising. Okay, that is amazing. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:19.600 That's a great story. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.280 Not gonna lie every time I get on the train 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.560 and I'm hoping he's on it, just to like for 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:24.639 a repeating. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.639 Whenever I revisit the Blue Store, I hope that man 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.160 in his suit is there as well. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.919 No, I love that. That is really really incredible. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.240 Yeah, we all know that Sniffy's and the Pandemic kind 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.400 of ignited a gay cruising renaissance in cities around the world. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.360 But where did cruising begin and how has it changed 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:43.840 over time? 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.840 Well, this week we welcome writer and activist Leo Herrara 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.720 to talk about his new manual and a Log Cruising, 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.960 which offers amazing advice to make cruising easier, whether you're 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.280 a beginner or you're like me, a season pro. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.280 Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.000 I am Gabe Goonsilers, I'm Chris Patterson rosso each week 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.720 weeks for the Sublime world of Queer Sex, cruising and Relationship, where. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.000 We talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask them questions, 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.720 swap sex stories, share intimate revelations. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.560 A lot of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.760 This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:17.040 library or the airport. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.720 I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here, Damn. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.200 So I was like the neighborhood slot, and I took 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:22.840 pride in that. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.640 I was so afraid but yet so intrigued. And the 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.320 more I gave to him, the more you could take. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.720 If you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:33.600 moral deficit. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.080 I think if you're a gay or career person on 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.080 Instagram or Twitter, you definitely have seen our first guest work. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.760 Leo Herredra is a Mexican writer, activist, and filmmaker best 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.880 known for his viral essay Means that explored queerness, race, 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:48.920 and disease. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.720 Not to mention his incredible Herrara Words substack, where he 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.680 publishes long form essays on queer culture and sex. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.680 Leo's latest project is a new manual called Analog Cruising, which, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.360 opinion every Cruising Confessions listener and Sniffy's user. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.880 Should probably read for sure. Welcome Leohredra. How are you 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.360 And I'm going so good, Thank you so much for 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:10.960 having me. So glad you're here. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:13.360 Let's pretend I have been living under a rock for 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.760 the past thousand years. Uh, And I asked you what 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.080 cruising is. How would you give us, like a very 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.279 base simple definition of cruising. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.719 Cruising is when two people look at each other and 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.080 know they're going to have sex and then have sex. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:34.279 It's a really simple note. Yes, simple, Yeah, truly one 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.560 of the oldest art forms. I mean, the beauty is 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.120 in the simplicity, right, Yeah, I like that. And it 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:40.600 seems like. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.840 The eyes and eye contact is maybe like part of 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:47.640 the vocabulary or nonverbal language of cruising. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.000 Eye contact is the mother tongue. Everything starts with eye 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.800 contact and then builds from there. So you start by 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.640 looking at one another. And as most game I know, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.480 if you're in a crowded you can look around and 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.480 you will spot out the other gay just by the 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.479 way that you guys look at each other. If you 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.640 look away and then look back and you're still looking 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.039 at one another, that is a whole romance novel waiting 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.720 to happen right in that split second. Gay men are 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.039 so good at nonverbal communication. Because we've had to do 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.280 it for so long for safety issues. Once we learn 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.040 to sort of harness that for sexual issues, it sort 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.839 of opens. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.520 Up this entire different world for us. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.719 Whether it's park cruising, cruising someone on a subway, in 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.760 a dark room at a sex club, at a bath house, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.080 there's sort of different rules of engagement for each of 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.880 those spaces, but they always always start off with eye contact. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.520 So, thinking about cruising, what do we know about where 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:43.080 it started? 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.680 You know, it's one of those things where, because there's 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:52.039 so little historical records about gay culture, we're never really 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.839 gonna know. But my thought about that is it's probably 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.520 when two cavemans saw each other and look down and 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.480 they're like that, it's a huge cave mancock, and then 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:02.440 they dragged each other. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.960 To a cave and then had sex before language. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.280 Began, and then they probably had you know, a little 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:09.640 like drawings up on a cave men. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.240 Well, I love those are proto only fans. Those drawings 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.039 were only fans before we knew what it was. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.679 It's great, it's amazing totally. 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.159 And so we have some records, Unfortunately a lot of 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.919 them are police records of you know, sting operations, and 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.440 things like that. When you're studying queer history, you have 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.400 to sort of read between the lines of certain things. 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.480 But what's interesting to me is that cruising is ingrained 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:33.960 in the gay DNA. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.640 So almost the history. In a way, it's valuable, but 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:38.640 you don't need. 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.640 To know it to go cruising. It's just something that 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.200 you can sort of instinctively pick up because it's basically 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.800 all instinct. I'm also curious why like parks and public 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.800 places became sort of the focal point for cruising, and 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:53.400 whether or not that has a lot to do with 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:59.120 like police persecution or the persecution of queer spaces, especially 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.839 like mid twentieth century, right. I mean, the reason that 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.479 those parks exist is because that's all we had, you know, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.920 before queer bars were a thing, or before they were 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.800 allowed to be legal, which hasn't been that long. I mean, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.000 people would cruise, you know, neither Coliseum or in you know, 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.680 when Aversta Park in San Francisco or the Rambles in 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.800 New York. A lot of black and brown men would 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.200 go to Prospect Park, to the Veil of Cashmere, which 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.679 is one of my favorite names of any cruising area. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.760 So that's sort of you know, they're just born out 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:35.520 of necessity, but they're also you know, born out of adventure. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.920 How many married men who were secretly gay would take 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.160 a walk in the park, you know, after dinner time, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.000 and so a lot of those spaces are created by 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.880 a community that just needed to find each other for 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.120 sexual and just communal reasons. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.120 I live across the sea from Prospect Park. I have 0:07:52.200 --> 0:08:02.000 been there. I bet you it's wonderful. I'll save. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:05.960 It's definitely been great for that because you can sort 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.080 of check in when you're going to be there, which 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.920 I love. I love that feature actually where you can 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.640 sort of like I'm going to be there at twelve 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:12.120 forty three. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.280 You're a prompt girly. 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.240 You're like, look, we got the audition at eight, we 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.960 got it. Yeah, I'm going to be in the veil 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.680 Kashmir as seven. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.080 You can veil me and it will be fantastic. It 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:25.040 will be great. Yeah. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.160 So it's like, it's interesting, how cruising sort of you know, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.160 we had a very hyper focused on only digital tools 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.120 for so long, and we're sort of seeing that pendulum 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.320 go back to where we're experiencing sort of a hybrid 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.360 cruising word incorporates a little bit of digital elements to it, 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.439 but at the end of the day, you're still stucking 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.079 dick at apart and it's still beautiful. 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:45.360 Yeah. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.959 Back in the early days, pre internet, when I was cruising, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.079 I like had all these skills, and then we sort 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.440 of got away from that, and then like when cruising 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.199 started started happening it again, I was like, oh, I 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.280 don't have these skills anymore. I don't know how to 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.120 look at someone and get the okay and walk with 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.520 them and do the thing, and like, you know, I've 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.320 sort of had forgotten that, and you know, now that 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:05.920 I'm doing it again, it's like, Oh, it's kind of 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.200 like old hat. It's like getting on a bicycle again. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:09.800 They're all in there, all those skills. 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.160 And even learning about where to find cruising spots is 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.840 so interesting because the idea, right is that these spaces 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.640 are somewhat secretive. It's word of mouth, it's passed along 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.679 through through gay channels. I remember the first cruising spot 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.280 I ever learned about was in college and I was 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.120 like freshly out. I was like nineteen or twenty, and 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.160 it was this park about like a mile away from 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.520 my campus in Providence, and it was a park where 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.160 you knew people were cruising, and you knew when you 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:35.800 were getting to the cruising spot because there'd be like 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.520 little used condoms on the ground. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.840 Tall. Yeah, but I had to drive to get there. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.200 So I remember driving my friends to this park, or 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.839 my friend's car to this park. I went alone, and 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.080 I parked and I went and I did my thing, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.480 and I like made furtive eye contact with someone and 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.440 I got a little scared and I left and then 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.360 I went back and then I had a really fun time. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.320 And when I got back to my friend's car, the 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.480 car wasn't working anymore. So I was like stranded in 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.120 a known cruising spot in Providence, and I was like, 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.160 who am I going to call to come pick me up? 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.960 Outside this gay cruising park lo and behold another cruiser. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.800 A man driving a truck was driving by and he's like, hey, buddy, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:16.959 you need car help, And I was like yeah, and. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.920 Then we hooked up in his truck. Before it was wild. 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.480 Honestly, it felt like I was living a porno and 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.199 I was like, oh, but this can be life. 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.200 Like you can live a little fantasy at the park 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:26.760 if you want too. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.240 And that's what makes cruising so exciting because you never 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.840 know what narrative you're gonna get. Yeah, use this digital 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.000 narrative machine that you're like, oh, I'm into this, and 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:39.480 I'm into that. You're gonna go here, and you're gonna 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.160 go to that. Please don't gost me or please show 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.560 it me when you show up at a park and 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.600 when you're doing like cruising on a subway, like you 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.400 literally don't know what that story arc is gonna be. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.040 And even when it's not good, you know, knock on 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.880 wood and you're still safe. You know, even when it's 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.120 not fantastic, even if you don't get late, it's always 0:10:58.160 --> 0:10:58.959 such a story. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.479 Yeah, and even when it's tragic. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.160 It's always a fantastic part of the things that sort 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.680 of mold you as a gay person. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.800 How have you seen sort of cruising evolve. I guess 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.439 over the past twenty thirty years. In particular, I think. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.679 It evolves in the way that we do use technology. 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.240 But also one of the biggest watershed moments was the 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.640 release of Prep in twenty thirteen and how that sort 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.280 of started to lift the stigma that a lot of 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.560 these spaces had for such a long time. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.960 You know, bathhouses were closed because of aids. There was 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.440 this stigma attached to it. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.080 When I started going to dark rooms and sex clubs 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.120 in the early in two thousand and five, you know, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.679 when I was twenty something, there was still a lot 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.640 of stigma. People were really really scared of those places, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.760 and older men had dealt with such a traumatic experience 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.120 through the crisis that they just weren't There was so 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.679 much shame attached to them and so much fear, And 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.960 so now that we've sort of lifted it, you can 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.760 see that these spaces are gradually filling up with younger 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.600 men that are very curious about them, and filling up 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.040 with older men who removed themselves from them for so long. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.600 So that's one of the biggest parts of how it's changed. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.040 But the wonderful part about cruising is that it never 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.440 really changes. It is such a constant in our community. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.080 It sort of adapts to the culture, and it adapts 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:25.720 to the safety of everything, and it adapts to laws. 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.600 But it's still two men looking at each other being like, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.560 I'm gonna suck that dick. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:33.120 Happen, it doesn't matter. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.960 I think it's such a beautiful part of our culture 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.000 because it takes us back to such a primal place, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.000 and it's also a litmus test of how we're doing politically, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.040 how we're doing medically, how we're doing socially. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:52.839 It's it's it says a lot to. 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.000 Me that we're even having a conversation like this for 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.360 ag n Apple Sniffy's, because for so long most gay 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:03.480 men ninety nine percent of their hookups were digital. There's 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.640 so many more doc rooms at parties. There's so much 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.880 more value attached to a bath house, for example, like 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.600 the EMPOS outbreak, when we really learned how dependent we 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:14.640 could be on them to get our vaccines and to 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:15.920 get our safe sex information. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.720 I actually got my empox vaccine at a mobile vaccine 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.880 truck that showed out, showed up right outside of a 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.640 sex party, and I was like, oh, this is easier 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.200 than trying to sign up on the City of New 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:28.400 York's website. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:29.719 Like I just had to go to. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.920 The sex party and it was an increasing was great. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.840 I made friends in line, like it was a great time, 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.439 and the nurses were sitting there like this is the 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.480 most people we've seen show up to one of these 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.160 mobile vans. And I think a lot of times people 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.400 think that sexual community or sexual subcultures are just solely 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.680 focused on sex, but there's also a care element and 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.360 a community element that I think is so interesting. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.840 And those spaces can exist without a care element, Like 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.000 a lot of all cruising areas and all cruising interactions 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.280 depend on a bay level of respect and consent and 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.439 excitement and pride in who you are and what your 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.360 needs are. So you can't go into a cruising space 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.240 feeling terrible about yourself, not being able to look at 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.839 someone in the eyes, caring a lot of shame about 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.680 what you're doing because it's not sexy, nobody wants. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:20.200 To fuck back up. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.400 You really need a level of base pride in your 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.680 culture and your community to enjoy those spaces. The queens 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.680 that have the best time, that are proud to be 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.520 there and having a good time. Even if you're not 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.280 having sex, you're making friends and you're just gathering a 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:36.440 story to tell later on. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.560 So I'm wondering how did people share cruising spots or 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.680 tips or etiquette, or like even learn how to cruise 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.840 with each other pre internet? 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.600 So cruising is one of our oldest forms of oral histories. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.880 So it was just something that somebody told somebody else 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.320 who told somebody else, who told somebody else. When we 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.720 were able to get you know, classifi as in newspapers 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.600 and use codes, we did have ways to sort of 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.400 communicate that with each other. But one of the most 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.160 interesting parts about cruising is that it's so instinctual. So 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.280 when you go into a park and you see the 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.960 little nooks and crannies and you see somebody standing there, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.040 you're gonna be like, Oh, that's an interesting thing over there. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.800 I wonder what's happening there? Why is there a guy 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.000 just standing there? And so a lot of our cruising 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.560 spots and a lot of the way that cruising evolves 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.320 is instinctual and like the most minimal word of mouth, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.160 because we needed to protect ourselves from the law and 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.960 from queer bashings and the politics of our own culture. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.480 Is so interesting to me, like the sort of languages 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.760 that surround cruising, both verbal and nonverbal, are constantly evolving 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.600 and really just depend on like who's the person you hear? 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:51.640 Yeah? Right? 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.120 I learned how to cruise from you outside. We were 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:56.920 standing outside waiting to be left from the in from 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.840 the studio. Chris turns to their left, sees this man 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.000 walking down the sidewalk and goes ooh, he looks yummy. 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.560 The man approaches us Christs and not avert their eyes. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.240 The entire time passes us. Chris turns looks at it 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.480 like waiting for him to look back, and I was like, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.200 maybe I need him to look back for you. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.960 That was that was like masterclass outside the. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.840 Whole world is then that waiting of are they going 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.080 to turn back? And that moment that they do is 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.360 one of the most exciting things that can happen to you. 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:30.080 I get such a rush from it, like get yeah. 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.600 I Like, I'm a sober person, so I don't get 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.360 a lot of highs these days, so like this is 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:36.240 my new high. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.600 Just like getting the look back in the smile and 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.120 then that's it. I just sort of going my way. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.400 I have no intention of poking up. I just want 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:43.320 to get the look back. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.360 There's a dopamine explosion, says hey, you should probably pay 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:49.000 attention to that. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:50.520 Yeah, I mean, the joke's on your brain because you're 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:51.200 not going to appropriate. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.480 But still so thinking about the danger of cruising, right, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.840 we look at like these police raids, how has it 0:16:57.920 --> 0:16:59.520 changed from the past to the present. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.680 You know, I think we'd like to tell ourselves that 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.640 everything's totally fine, but as we know, police presence and 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.920 queer culture is always going to have a really terrible relationship. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.000 But even our bars, you know, are still dealing with 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.520 raids and parties get shut down all the time for that, 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.840 so we always have to be really hyper aware of that. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.879 And as soon as we, you know, drop that vigilance, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.560 that's when we're really going to get in trouble. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.160 So the first rule in my park. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.160 Cruising guide is to inform yourself on the police activity 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:31.840 in the area. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:33.960 And sometimes it just takes. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.200 One toddler to pick up a dirty condom and that 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.879 Karen mom is going to run to that park, you know, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.119 to the police, and then they're gonna mow down all 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.560 the bushes, and that happens all the time. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.760 To be honest, I kind of love the danger. The 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.200 thrill of kind of getting hot is kind of really 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.760 hot to me, and like the urgency of having to 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.760 get off so I can get out, so I you 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:56.960 know what I mean, Like I kind of love that. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.760 Yeah, yeah, So that's interesting because to me, I'm the opposite. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.560 I hate the idea of getting caught, so and every 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.600 every cruising area is going to have a different element 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.280 of that danger because it is such a dopamine rush 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.320 to be like, oh my god, what if somebody comes up? 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.040 But there's you know, there's different levels of rushes to 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.520 each space and sort of one of the one of 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.720 the most exciting parts is figuring out, like what is 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.440 the thing that turns you on the most about cruising 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.359 and about being sort of exposed to the elements or 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.920 exposed to other people. That's the beauty of these cruising 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.800 areas is that they are made to be able to 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.199 see out and not and for the outside to not 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.720 see in. So most cruising areas are not going to 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.600 be very you know, they're not going to be about 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.000 exposure and exhibitionism. But one of the things that I 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.240 do remind people when I'm doing I'm working on my 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.359