WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - July 19th, 2024 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.760 This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.520 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.720 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:25.720 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.720 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend podcast. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.400 That Chair J. Powell dominates our first hour thanks to 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.840 an exclusive conversation with Carlisle's David Rubinstein this past week, 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.640 and also because of another Bloomberg Business Week exclusive and 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.600 cover story with Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, who was 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.960 asked about keeping Chair Powell should Trump find himself back 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.120 in the White House. All of that to come in 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:51.840 just a moment. 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.560 We also leaned on one individual to tie up the 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.400 Bloomberg world of markets, business, and yes, lots of politics. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.760 Stefan Sielig, under Secretary of Commerce for International Trade at 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.040 the US Department of Commerce during the Obama administration, stop 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.200 by to help us make sense of it all he did. 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.920 Indeed, all that to come, we begin with former President 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.360 Donald Trump. It was one week ago that an assassination 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.200 ATTEP was made on his life. This past week, the 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.920 former president announced Jade Vance as his vice president and 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.520 running mate, and officially became the Republican Party's candidate for president, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.959 all happening at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:33.320 There is no victory in winning for a half of em, 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.440 So tonight, with faith and devotion, I proudly accept your 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.399 nomination for President of the United States. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.800 Donald Trump is also the cover story for the August 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.040 issue of Bloomberg Business Week, just out on newstands, online 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.720 and on the Bloomberg Business we Go. Editor Brad Stone, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.880 alongside Bloomberg White House correspondence Nancy Cook, Joshua Green and 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.960 Mario Parker, sat down with the former president at mar 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.040 A Lago for an exclusive interview to learn more about 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.680 the policies that may come should he be elected to 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.560 a second term, everything from Texas to Tara s Fedjow, Jpowell, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:09.720 Taiwan and more. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.320 Here's Bradstone, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, on how the 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.560 interview with Donald Trump all came together. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.600 You know, earlier this year we knew that we would 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:25.079 be covering a momentous campaign Business Week. Obviously it's our 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.480 lane is business and the global economy, and so we 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.840 reached out to both campaigns and we told each candidate 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.320 that we wanted we asked for an interview focusing on 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.520 business and the economy, and the Trump campaign responded first 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.320 and they were willing to do it. We went down 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.919 to mar A Lago on June twenty fifth. I went 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.680 with our White House colleagues, Mario Parker, Josh Green, Nancy Cook. 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.560 We visited mar A Lago early, I guess late in 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.720 the morning on a Tuesday. It's off season, so it's 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.080 very quiet there and Palm Beach and up mar A Lago. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:05.760 You know what can I do? It was you know, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:06.440 it's it's. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.480 A little bit of what you imagine, a little bit 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.840 of that, uh, you know, that Trump style luxury that 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.919 one might be familiar with from his buildings and and 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.359 the and the former casinos. Lots of monuments to Trump 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.600 in the in the clubhouse where we were, like birthday gifts, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.360 balloon towers in the bathrooms, like lots of momento Trump 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:29.480 focused mementos. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:30.400 Uh. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.880 And then the candidate himself came in and. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.760 As I wrote, you know, was was was personable, you know, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.200 tries to be charming. I mean, it's interesting because you 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.040 put him in front of a camera or a crowd, 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.320 and you know he's not the biggest fan of the media, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:45.160 but he was. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:46.760 You know, he wanted to do this. 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:48.920 I think the cover of a magazine and the cover 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.080 of BusinessWeek means something to him, and he wanted, you know, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:54.920 he wanted to get his message across. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.760 You know what's interesting too, Brad, I think about the 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:02.200 interview in Trump's policies taking greater urgency are becoming even 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.880 more important to know in detail if you consider the 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:06.680 events of the last couple of weeks. I'm thinking about 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.600 President Biden's debate performance not so great as we know, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.760 the assassination attempt over the weekend and subsequent supercharge momentum 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:15.760 that has come to the Trump campaign as a result. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.560 We really want to understand these policies and some of 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:21.880 the kind of cues he has given. Maybe over the 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.960 last couple of months, you guys wanted to dig deeper. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:26.720 Yeah, I mean there are two things, you know. 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.760 One is it's a pretty vague set of policy proposals 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.440 you talk about. He talks about higher tariffs, lower taxes, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.400 stopping immigration at the border, but at the same time 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.800 he's targeting inflation. So you know, one, I think because 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.960 these are vague, broad brushstrokes, it has allowed proxies to 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.760 come in with things like Project twenty twenty five or 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.120 this independent white paper that suggested he could curtail the 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.720 independence of the Federal Reserve, and there's been some confusion there, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.960 and in our interview he kind of tried to try 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.320 to walk that back and disavow some of these other projects. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.919 The other thing is that there are some contradictions in 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.240 his plan. I mean, if you're attacking inflation, then increasing 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:13.719 tariffs or shrinking the labor pool through harsher restrictions on 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.880 immigration is not conventionally the way to do it. And 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.760 so you know, we talked to a lot of independent 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.119 economists in the story that point that out. 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:21.680 You know. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.440 As for pushing and pressing Trump on that, it was 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.800 interesting he kept bringing up William McKinley, the twenty fifth president, 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.360 a fellow Ohio, and I might add who's probably most 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.479 known for he was assassinated early in a second term. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.479 But he thinks that people are discounting the wisdom of 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.640 tariffs that you could drive not just revenue, but tougher 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.400 negotiations with your partners and in a sense that he 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.480 thinks it will all pencil out. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.560 In the end, even though the campaign does. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.479 Not really talk about how they would you account for 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.280 the increase of the deficit that would come from things 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.919 like permanently reducing the corporate time Brad. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.680 Everything ties back to economics and business, no question, and 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.680 even foreign policy. And I'm curious about what you learn 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.839 about his views regarding Taiwan, what he said about Ukraine, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.880 and sort of what surprised you about those. 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.839 Well, I mean his riff on Taiwan was shocking in 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.560 the moment and shocking as I reflect on it. I mean, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.680 he basically said that Taiwan is a you know, a 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.480 US ally. He said that Taiwan has stolen our chip business, 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.880 that they should be paying us for protection, that it's 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.720 thousands of miles away and very close to China, and 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.920 he called it the apple of She's I so probably 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:48.200 unsettling for Taiwan partisans as it relates to Ukraine, things 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.480 like Iran and Israel. I mean, he spins, you know, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.600 a scenario where he doesn't think that the conflicts that 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:59.039 are happening now would be occurring if he were still president. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.320 And of course you can argue with that, but he 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.479 traces it back to Iran and you know some of 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.720 the sanctions there that were then lifted, you know, in 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.200 the nuclear agreement, and he just believes that America's enemies 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.560 have been empowered after he left office. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.720 I am curious as you guys were talking to Donald Trump, Brad, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.040 at any point did he did you get a feeling 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.120 he didn't want to go to certain areas or was 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.040 he pretty much an open book when it comes to 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.960 maybe his policies, his economic policies during a second term. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.840 Yeah, I don't recall anything any topic being off limits. 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.120 I would say that, you know that there were certain 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.120 areas where we pressed, you know, the economic impact of tariffs, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.680 who he would bring into his administration, where you know, 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.960 I think we probably ended up hitting the limit of 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.640 his current thinking. At the time, he hadn't picked a 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.120 vice presidential candidate. Obviously we pressed him on that. He 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.920 wasn't willing to go there yet. Now, of course we 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.960 know it's JdE Evans, but I mean, look, this was 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.840 supposed to be a forty five minute interview, and Jason Miller, 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:04.920 the campaign chair, he tried to end it a couple 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.640 of times, and President Trump kept talking to us, so 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.200 there was a lot in his mind and nothing that 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:11.119 was really off limits. 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.000 One thing I am curious. I feel like Donald Trump 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.320 is somebody that you know, we've seen a lot in 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.040 the media. You know, you think about The Apprentice, I 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:19.920 think about when he used to go on David Letterman 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.120 and he was fixing the ice skating rink here in 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.200 New York City. Like, there's just kind of a bigger 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.600 than life kind of individual, larger than life individual. What 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.600 was he like face to face? And you know, we 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.440 know we've seen him in sometimes debate or other you know, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.840 he's very combative, he's very you know, going talking to 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.439 a crowd. What was he like face to face? 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:42.400 As I said before, I mean, I think you get 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.640 a different Trump in a crowd or in front of 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.520 a camera, and in the smaller and the smaller setting, 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.880 he's a little bit more solicitous. And it really struck 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.640 me that he's quite absorbed with who likes him and 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.520 who doesn't, and who's on his team and who isn't. 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.400 So as an example, Carol I showed him a copy 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.520 of last month's Bloomberg Business Week with Bernard Arnault all 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.839 the time and he's and and he you know, he 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.400 sat with us for a little bit and then and 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.839 this was before the interview, and then during the interview, 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.320 maybe like fifteen minutes in, he kind of stopped and said, 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:23.199 by the way, you know your previous cover candidate did. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.160 I'm I'm friends with him. 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.240 I'm curious if he's friends with if he said he 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.600 was friends with me. So he wanted to know whether 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.800 one of the wealthiest people in the world, mister Arnaut, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:35.760 was a Trump supporter. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.679 Essentially, That's how I interpreted it. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.319 And you know, we published a transcript and you can 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:41.400 see the whole conversation. 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:43.880 But I think that was what surprised me. 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:48.440 You know that he's quite interested in in who's his 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.120 supporter and who is right. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.280 You were in Paris for that interview with Bernard Arnaut, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.240 so remind everyone, did he say anything about the former president? 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:56.800 Did not come up? 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:57.960 Come up. 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.160 But but you know, when when up with President Darnau 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.440 did open some a factory I think it was in 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.720 Texas and appeared with President Trump. 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.319 Hey to that end, I'm wondering about how the thinking 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.080 around this piece changed over the last few weeks and 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.840 really over the last few days, as it was going 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.360 to print because you mentioned you did this in late June. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.360 That was before the disastrous debate for President Biden. It 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.800 was also before he had picked a running mate, and 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.440 it was also, of course before what happened on Saturday 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.240 with the assassination attempt. So talk a little bit about 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.880 how you're thinking around the piece changed before publication and 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:36.840 since you did the interview. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.200 Yeah, tim not much changed. 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.920 You know, this was a cover story about the candidate 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:48.200 and his plan for the economy and for American business. 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:50.080 That didn't change. You know. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.800 What we did have to reconsider was the timing, just 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.080 because you know, this is a little bit right off 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.360 the current events of last weekend, and we didn't we 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.720 didn't want it to get lost in the you know, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.040 well deserved attention that was coming to you know, the 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.320 incident in Pennsylvania. I mean, yeah, obviously it could have 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.680 affected it a whole lot more, and thank heavens, it didn't. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.440 But if anything, I think maybe the importance of the 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:17.600 story went up. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.920 Just because you know, Trump was already. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.720 To my mind, feeling a lot of momentum on June 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.120 twenty fifth. It seemed to me that he had a 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.199 bounce in his step and as Carol, as you said, 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.400 you know, recent events over the past few weeks have 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.520 transpired to at least make it appear that he has 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:36.600 the momentum. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.880 Right now coming into the GOP convention. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.080 As I say in the editor's note, a lot can change. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.760 It's July, but this is why we think that the 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.680 time is right for more attention on his economic agenda. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.959 Hey, you talk about momentum behind Trump, a lot of attention. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:58.520 He is getting momentum around from folks in Silicon Valley. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.800 You understand the tech community so well, having spent so 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.360 many years covering it and writing about it. Having said that, 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.920 whether it's Elon Musk and some other entrepreneurs out of 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.280 Silicon Valley, seems like he's getting a fair amount of love, 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.160 but not from corporate America. And that is something we've 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.120 been talking about, certainly among the publicly held companies. You 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.400 guys talked a little bit about that. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.400 Yeah, and let me say two things. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.480 One, I do think we're hearing some loud voices from 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.600 Silicon Valley that are in Trump's camp, but there's no 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.440 real telling whether that's. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.040 Some minority or a majority. 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.440 I think that there's a risk calculation that investors and 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.400 entrepreneurs engage in in tech. And you know, and the 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.800 risk calculation here is if you support Trump any wins, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.120 you know, you're on the right side of a president 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:51.000 who remembers his friends and enemies. And if if Biden wins, 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.080 that support, you know, doesn't necessarily make a difference. And 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.079 so I think that and what you're seeing in the 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:01.680 business community now is and I I quote some folks 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.160 saying this is, you know, there's a lot of fear. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.480 You might not think that Donald Trump deserves the second term, 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.880 but being overt about it and getting on his enemies lists, 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:13.839 you know, might end up hurting you. So if you're 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.400 a big public CEO, you know, you might have a 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.040 fiduciary duty dear shareholders to kind of keep your nose 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:21.880 down right now. 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.439 And I think that's a little bit of what we're 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:25.680 seeing in the business community. 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.760 Interesting, Hey, Brad, One thing that we've been talking a 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.400 lot about, and it's also getting a lot of attention 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.640 outside the newsroom, is the transcript of the interview with 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.760 the former president and the Republican nominee. Because you and 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.200 the team over at Bloomberg business Week fact checked the 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.800 transcript and I encourage everybody to check it out online 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:49.200 because it has sort of hyperlinks to footnotes that include 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.120 context and information and a lot of numbers based on 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.600 what the the former president said. Talk a little bit 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.840 about that process, because that's not something that we see 0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:58.960 with every interview. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:13:59.840 No, it's not. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.920 And by the way, I think we would do that 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.160 for other interviews with other presidential candidates too, So it's 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.360 not anything special or unique for Donald Trump. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.959 But look, I mean this was a ninety minute conversation. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.560 You know, there were parts of his answers and also frankly, 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.040 parts of our questions that we thought deserved either more 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.960 context or correcting the public record. This is also something 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.680 that we've seen other news organizations do. I think it's 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.400 a great way to add just extra context for our readers, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:35.480 but along the way offering the candidate's remarks in a 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.600 totally transparent form. So in my mind, it was sort 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.800 of the best of both worlds. It was not an 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.040 easy task. It's a ninety minute conversation that covered a 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.200 lot of ground, and so kudos to my colleagues. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.280 In the Washington DC Bureau who did the hard work. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.160 I just want to confirm you did not go home 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:51.920 with a maga hat. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:52.160 Right. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.880 So at the end of the he had his aide 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.640 Steven Miller, go out of the room during the interview 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.880 to come back with the ha that said Trump was 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.640 right about everything, and he was crowing about the hat. 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.400 And as I said, he was bragging about a bunch 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.400 of things, and he tried to give it to us. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:08.680 At the end. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.120 Then we politely declined and cocher diet coke coke. Yeah, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.920 he did go on his ref about thin people not 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:16.880 drinking diet coke. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:22.240 Okay, all right, Bradstone, incredible your second monthly issue and 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.760 an incredible cover story that is, of course the editor 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.960 of Bloomberg Business Week, Bradstone. Check out the new issue 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.120 of Bloomberg Business Week on newsstands, catch it online and 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.960 on the Bloomberg So appreciated so many different aspects. Our 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.680 team has been all over the different pieces of it. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.040 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.320 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.520 on Apple car Play and then brout Auto with a 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.240 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.080 We have leaned on our next guest many times throughout 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.160 the global pandemic, in the days following the murder of 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.560 George Floyd, throughout the twists and turns of the twenty 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.920 twenty presidential rate, and so much more. He's someone who's 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.040 worked in leadership roles in both the private and public sectors, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.640 including a nearly thirty year career on Wall Street, which 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.000 is why we love talking about about so much of 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.160 what is the Bloomberg world. His former Undersecretary of Commerce 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.320 for International Trade at the used Department of Commerce that 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.160 was during the Obama administration, headed up the International Trade Administration. 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.160 I could go on, but then we would be done. 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.640 Let's get to it. Stefan Sielig is back with us, 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.560 managing partner and founder of Bridge Park Advisors, the financing 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.960 advisory firm here in our Bloomberg studio. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:30.680 This environment, I'm not. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.160 Quite sure where to start, but it does feel like 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.480 politics is the right place to start in terms of 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.760 what might happen in November. Does it matter who ultimately 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.280 is in the White House come November? 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.720 You know, Look, I think it depends on what the 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.720 issue is, right and so some of the things we've 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.040 talked about in the past, like China, this is one 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.080 topic where maybe the only topic where Democrats and Republicans 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.640 seem quite aligned, which is getting tougher on China. I'm 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.600 not sure policies will be radically different between a Trump 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.160 and a potentially Abiden iministration. I think the deficit ain't 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.760 gone down with either president. I think defense spending is 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:10.000 going up with either president. I think as a result 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.600 of that, from an economic perspective, I'm not sure there's 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.760 going to be a ton of difference. I think from 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:19.320 a political perspective, clearly President Trump is going to be 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.959 much more isolationist. He is going to have much stricter 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.640 immigration policies, and he is going to spend a lot 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.560 of money. And so I think what all that does, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.840 which is why you're seeing the steepening of the yield curve, 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:33.920 the so called Trump trade that you've talked about in 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.159 the strengthening of the dollar, is you know, those are 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.520 all going to be quite inflationary, especially if he adopts 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.840 some of these more aggressive tarror proposals that he's talked 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.639 about both with China and in imports, which could be 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.080 Trumpian hyperbole, right, but if it does happen, that inflation 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.800 is going to go up dramatically and. 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.280 Can you play that out for us because I don't 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.160 think I think there's times in terms of I think 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.520 of voters who are just trying to pay their bills 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.359 at this point. But how would that potentially play out 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.879 and impact the US economy and US citizens. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:10.640 Well, tariffs are nothing else other than taxes, right, They're 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.480 taxes on goods, and unfortunately they're quite regressive because the 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.320 people that are impacted most are you know, the folks 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:21.080 that are paying their bills every month in groceries and 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.520 car payments and everything else, and so prices will go up. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.919 There was not a very significant impact in the Trump 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.240 original set of tariffs because they were not that significant, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.359 and President Biden obviously kept them largely in place. So 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.040 the real question is he going to be much more 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.240 aggressive in the next term and if that is going 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.960 to happen. You know, some economists are talking about one 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.440 hundred basis point two hundred basis point increases in inflation, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.119 let alone about the impact and the slowing of the 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.080 economy overall. 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.760 You talk to CEOs all the time in your position 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.520 at Bridge Park Advisors. What are they telling you? 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.320 Well, look, before we talk about the CEO perspective. In 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.360 a moment, I almost have a counterintuitive point of view, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:06.080 which is the strengthening of Trump from this horrific assassination 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.960 attempt could in fact have an opposite of the Trump trade, 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.560 which is this could be maybe an accelerant to having 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.600 a change Democratic ticket. Really and if that were to 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.280 be the case, just based on the poll numbers, you'd 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.439 actually argue for taking the opposite side of that trade, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.719 because now Biden looks so much weaker than even he 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.639 did after the debate that that may force Democratic leadership 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.159 and the President himself to really re evaluate whether or 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.199 not he wants to stay in And I have no 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.440 perspective on whether that is going to be the case 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.960 or not, but it is interesting that the strengthening of 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.200 Trump could have that potential outcome. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.240 Do you realistically see a scenario in the next few 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:48.760 weeks where there is a change at the top of 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.320 the ticket. I mean, the President did reiterate he's in 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:51.840 it to win it. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.800 Yeah, we've all heard the same thing. On the one hand. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.480 On the other hand, despite which you may think about 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.560 the President some of his policies, I believe he is 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.960 a true patriot and he wants to do the right 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.080 thing for the country, and if he becomes convinced that 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.000 he is not going to be able to beat Donald Trump, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.680 he may change his mind, because at the end of 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:16.399 the day, this is not just a narcissistic decision. It 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.679 is a decision that many people believe is going to 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.399 fundamentally affect and I'm sure he does the direction of 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.600 this country. Going back to your question about CEOs, what 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.160 I would say is, first of all, most fortune five 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.639 hundred CEOs are Republicans, So I don't know poles have 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.960 been taking seventy five percent are Republicans. You're starting with 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:41.320 a base that most CEOs of big companies would vote 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.520 for Trump kind of along party lines on the one hand. 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.359 On the other hand, for this particular candidate, in the 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.640 conversations I've had, I don't see much enthusiasm. For one, 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.919 I don't think they appreciate his style. Two is some 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:59.840 of these policies. CEOs are not isolationists, they are not xenophobic, 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.800 they are not protectionists. They don't like tariffs, and so 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.240 they don't like all of the social policies that are 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.560 being talked about, for example, LGBTQ rights, and so while 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.320 I think on the one hand, you know, many of 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.520 them are seeing the writing on the wall and as 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.479 a result not standing up and lining behind President Biden. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.640 On the other hand, I don't think there's a lot 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.320 of enthusiasm for this particular president as much as there 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:33.600 is enthusiasm for traditionally central centrist Republican policies as a 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.440 way to drive corporate profits in corporate prosperity. 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:37.240 You know. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:38.920 One of the things that we've been talking a lot 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.639 about is kind of the establishment. Folks in Silicon Valley 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.240 are really in kind of the venture startup world, and 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.960 they're backing of Donald Trump and JD. Vance. It seems 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.040 like at this point, why do you think that they 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.399 appeal to them? Is it tax like? What is it? 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.760 Well, part of it is JD. Vance. You had a 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.440 job in Silicon Valley for a while, and so I 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.280 think there is a little bit of a connection that 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.320 he has personally with some of those folks. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.440 But Peter til and Elon, we're backing Trump. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:09.320 For a long time. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.639 Yeah, And I would say, frankly, Carrol, those are not 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:17.920 really representative of the Fortune five hundred establishment traditionally. Now 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.800 it may be the New World Order, but it certainly 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.960 wasn't the world order of the last you know generation. 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.639 Well, is it important to make that distinction because it's interesting. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.000 They're in the headlines a lot, sure, but they're. 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.840 In the headlines a lot because of you know, the 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.320 huge you know, wealth and success of Elon Musk and 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.240 a number of other folks that like to you know, 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.680 comment on this. But traditionally, corporate CEOs are going to 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:46.639 be much more reticent for making public political, you know, statements, 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.640 because it's kind of not their lane and not their job. 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:51.520 So as a result of that, you kind of have 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.439 the squeaky reel sort of phenomenon where you have folks 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.000 like Bill Ackman that like to comment on these things, 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.159 and Elon Musk because of X and other things, that 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.920 likes to comment on these things. We're traditional corporate executives, 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.800 I think, because you know, their customers and their clients 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.960 are both Republicans and Democrats, are quite chary about being 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:12.879 as vocal. 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:15.400 Hey, we well, speaking of that, we did just speak 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.960 to Kara Murphy over at Kestra Investment Management, and she 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.439 encouraged our listeners and our viewers to look beyond the 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.920 election and argued that who's in the White House really 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.080 doesn't matter when it comes to financial markets. That said, 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.679 we spoke to Read Hoffman, the LinkedIn founder and billionaire, 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.800 about six weeks ago over in at our San Francisco conference, 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.919 and he said it absolutely does matter because he's concerned 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:42.399 about a lack of stability as a result of a 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.360 Trump presidency. What side are you on? Does it matter 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:46.280 who's in the White House? 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.720 You know, I think, of course it matters, But you 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.040 also have to have to ask that question in conjunction 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.080 with what happens to the Congress, and is it going 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.200 to be a divided government or not a divide of government, 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.080 because that is a natural check in balance UH that 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.760 I think will cause some of them more extreme outcomes 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:08.320 from UH taking place. But what I would say is, 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:12.880 you know, the United States position in the world will 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.919 clearly be different between these two governments. And you know 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.040 President ex president former President Trump and President Biden have 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:27.960 a different worldview in terms of cooperation internationalism versus isolationism, 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:32.760 and that is going to impact not only the citizenry, 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:37.240 but impact businesses in many respects. And so I don't 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.680 think it can be ignored. I am not quite as 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:44.800 alarmist as some folks in terms of the end of 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:47.680 democracy and civil war and some of the other things 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.600 that you know, some people are talking about. On the 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:53.040 one hand, I do think, you know, this is an 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:57.960 important election and we need to be rightly talking about 0:24:58.000 --> 0:24:58.480 the issues. 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.679 Someone do you feel like you worked than the government 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:02.960 the Obama administration? Do we still have checks and balances? 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.600 Obviously our system hasn't changed. What has changed, Carol is 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.240 we used to govern from the middle, and now we're 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:13.240 governing from the extremes in both parties, and that is 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.320 what creates a lot of I think these tensions and 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:19.160 a lot of our ineffectiveness in terms of our ability 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.879 to implement any policies. And I think, frankly, and this 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:24.800 is my personal point of view, until we get back 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:26.000 to the middle, we're going to have a lot of 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:28.320 We're going to have some real issues because that's what 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.879 creates the animosity and the ability to collaborate. And you know, 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.720 when President Biden was in the Senate, he was you know, 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.960 notoriously well known and rightly so for actually being being 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:43.800 able to collaborate across the aisle. And you don't see 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:45.800 that from either party at the moment. And I don't 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.320 see that changing with this election in either direction. 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:50.879 You did say until we get back to the middle, 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.560 which strikes me as really optimistic. Do you see within 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:56.720 I mean, it's not an. 0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:59.120 I think he said he was an optimist within our lifetime. 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:01.800 Do you get back to the you know, you know, 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.639 I don't know, Tim, You may as well be hopeful 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:06.240 because it's better than the other choice. 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:07.440 Yeah, that's fair. 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:10.840 Your clients, what do they ask you most about? 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.320 Well, you know, I think at the moment, as you 0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:15.880 as you rightly said, there was a whole conversation around 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:17.439 what was going to happen on the top of the 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:23.840 Democratic ticket than the implications of the assassination attempt, clearly, 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.199 But I think there's still a lot of uncertainty in 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:30.360 the economy. And you know, you guys spend a lot 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.400 of time, understandably talking about the markets, but the markets 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:37.040 and the real economy are divergent. And the fact is 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:40.359 is that despite being at all time highs in the 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:45.280 equity markets, you know, consumer sentiment is not high. Savings 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:49.440 are being depleted, Inflation is going up, Costs to consumers 0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:52.359 are going up. Car payments, mortgage payments are are higher 0:26:52.440 --> 0:26:55.480 because of interest rates, and that's creating a real sense 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:59.880 of a you know, lack of prosperity with most American 0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:04.160 households and households, Carol, you know this, households don't own 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:06.960 a lot of stock, right, so that all of that 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:09.240 good stuff that we talk about in the equity markets 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:14.240 really doesn't impact households traditionally, and even that high equity 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:17.480 market guys talk about this all the time. It's really technology. 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:20.120 And it's not just technology. It's a handful of companies 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:21.439 in the technology sector. 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.400 Why do you think that so much America is struggling 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:26.720 at a time when the economy is so good for 0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:27.439 so many people. 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:29.320 Well, I don't know, Tim, is it's so good for 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:32.080 so many people's there's a real wealth gap, and it's 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:34.760 good for a lot of I think your listeners who 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:38.440 occupy a certain economic position in this country, and I'm 0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:40.680 not so sure it's so good for so many people. 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.040 A lot of people are struggling, and that is why 0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:49.400 this populism that President Trump and jd. Vance espouse has becoming, 0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:52.439 has become so popular. And I think, you know, we 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:54.719 can't ignore that, and you know, we can all have 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:58.199 stylistic concerns and concerns about some of their policies, but 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.679 the people, the Americans that they are talking to, really 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:05.400 feel what they are they are trying to address. 0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:08.080 Yeah, I think it explains very much the political environment 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:09.560 that we are, not just in the United States, but 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:12.399 really globally right in terms of people not feeling that 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:13.520 they're doing better. 0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:16.720 For sure, and you know, Brexit, the elections in France, 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.919 et cetera, et cetera. I mean this is a global phenomenon. 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.840 Thank you, as Oweys Stefan Seelik, his magic partner at 0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:23.800 Bridge Park Advisors. 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:33.879 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.160 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play 0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:40.040 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.320 also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:47.040 York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.520 On inflation, we in the first quarter, we didn't make 0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:55.200 any more progress. The second quarter, actually we did make 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:58.480 some more progress. We've had now three better readings, and 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:00.960 if you average them, it's that's a pretty good pace. 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.080 That's Federal Reserve Chair J Powell talking with David Rubinstein 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:07.480 this past Monday at an Economic Club of Washington luncheon event. 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:10.120 It was just about a week and a half ago 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:12.600 that Chair Powell was up on Capitol Hill for two 0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:16.560 days of congressional testimony that was followed by cooling inflation data. 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.480 It all comes ahead of another FOMC meeting at the 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:20.360 end of this month. 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:23.600 In David's conversation fed Share, Powell declined to give any 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.640 guidance on the timing of interest rate moves. That kind 0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:28.800 of makes sense, right, Carol, that's not surprising. 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:29.720 Yeah, no, absolutely. 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:32.240 He did though, say that the most recent CPI data 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:36.160 quote do add somewhat end quote to confidence that inflation 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.560 is heading down to the central banks two percent goal 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.800 and that labor markets are now in a quote better place. 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:42.040 Right. 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:44.600 We got another kind of confirmation of that as jobless 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:47.440 claims were ticking up, So again some softening in the 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.200 labor market, not coming undone, but nonetheless some softening. 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:50.680 Well. 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:54.280 The conversation, though on Monday, also touched on the assassination 0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:57.680 attempt on Donald Trump and whether J. Powell would serve 0:29:57.720 --> 0:30:01.200 another term as Federal Reserve chairman if Donald Trump is 0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:03.400 back in the White House. All of this, we do 0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:07.200 want to point out happening before the Bloomberg headlines and 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:11.160 Bloomberg Business recover story on Donald Trump saying he wouldn't 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.720 seek to remove Powell before his term ends in twenty 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:14.480 twenty six. 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:17.520 Now, let's get to our conversation with David Rubinstein, who 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:19.880 is a co founder of the private equity firm Carlisle, 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.960 also a Bloomberg host. For more on his talk with 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:24.200 FED chair j Powell. 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:28.880 Well, I am the chairman of the Economic Club of Washington, 0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:33.360 and in that capacity I often interview government leaders and 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:37.160 business leaders. And Jay Powell and had been somebody i'd 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.560 interviewed before. He had worked at my firm a number 0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:42.400 of years ago, while before he was at the FED. 0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:45.320 And so we worked out a date that I would 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.000 do this interview today, and we had about seven hundred 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:50.360 people there and obviously a live TV audience. 0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.720 David, we were chuckling the whole time. I mean, this 0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:57.040 was like a really a Powell that you don't see 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.160 at press conference, as a Powell that you don't see 0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:01.080 every day. It's clear that you too are familiar with 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:03.360 one another. What did you want to get out of 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.400 the interview? Because we know that he's not going to 0:31:05.400 --> 0:31:11.920 give us any indication about a rate path he established 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:13.280 that at the top of the interview. What did you 0:31:13.320 --> 0:31:14.040 want to get out of it? 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.120 Well, I think it's always good to humanize well known 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:21.080 people and people can understand them better and the way 0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:24.360 they make decisions and the way they kind of handle 0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:27.880 their job. And I thought humanizing him would be always good. Clearly, 0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:29.520 when you're a chairman of the FED, you talk in 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:31.760 what I've often called Fed speak, which is to say, 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:33.960 it's very difficult for the average person to understand it. 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:36.400 But Jay does a better job than some of his 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:39.240 predecessors and speaking in common English because he's not a 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:42.720 trained economist, and I just thought giving people an update 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:46.479 on his perspectives on the economy would be a good thing. 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:48.360 I mean, obviously, as you point out, he's not going 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:51.320 to announce at an interview with me that he's lowering 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:51.880 interest rates. 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:52.719 You can't expect that. 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:55.120 But I think he gave a pretty good description of 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:58.160 how they decide to lower interest rates or increase interest rates, 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.760 and I thought it was informative, and therefore I thought, 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:02.800 you know, he accomplishes his goal, which is the kind 0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:04.680 of you know, show people how he makes decisions. And 0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:07.160 I accomplished my goal, which is kind of humanized the 0:32:07.240 --> 0:32:08.760 Chairman of the FED a little bit more than maybe 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:09.600 he otherwise would be. 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:12.240 Well, David, help us understand your relationship. You mentioned that 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:14.080 you guys do go back years. Of course, he was 0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:15.880 a partner at the Carlisle Group before he went into 0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:19.400 public service. I'm wondering if you're in touch with him 0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.160 regularly now, if you consider him a friend, Just give 0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:23.640 us an idea of your relationship with him. 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:26.080 I wouldn't say I'm in touch with him regularly when 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:29.160 you're a chairman of the FED. You know, I think 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.160 it's somebody like me doesn't want to be calling him 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.960 up all the time, and you know, I don't want 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:36.520 to look like I'm trying to get information from him. 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.880 And he worked at Karloff for years. Well, I wouldn't 0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:41.640 say I was his closest friend or vice versa. So 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:45.840 I know him reasonably well. I've interviewed him I think 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:48.560 three times or four times at the Economic Club in Washington, 0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:51.160 and I have a good relationship with him. But I 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:53.800 wouldn't say we're, you know, close as a friends. But 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.880 I certainly like him and admire what he's done for 0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:58.280 the country and the job that he's had. 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:00.480 You know, what's interesting too, and something we've talked a 0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:03.000 lot about David is you know, the neutral rate and 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:07.760 what he thinks about that two percent goal that the 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:10.840 Federal Reserve has. He said, the neutral rate is probably 0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:14.520 higher today. Monetary policy is restrictive, but not severely restrictive. 0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:16.600 I am curious how you see things. Do you think 0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:18.800 the neutral rate doesn't make sense anymore, that it does 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.720 need to be higher? And what is your expectation or 0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:23.240 what you think the Fed should be doing when it 0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:24.760 comes to interest rates right now? 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:28.120 Well, I think the country will do much better off 0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:30.800 listening to j Pal's hues on where the interest rate 0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:33.640 should go than probably my views on interest rates. But 0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:36.080 I think that's a general sense that the market is 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:40.520 believing that there will be a cut, and I think 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:42.680 Jay made it clear that he doesn't listen to a 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:46.080 political situation. So I have said in speeches that I 0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:48.560 thought it would be unlikely that the Fed would want 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:51.720 to cut during a presidential election period of time. But 0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:53.520 I think he's made it clear that that's not his 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.000 view or the view of the FOMC, that if they 0:33:56.000 --> 0:33:58.640 think the data warrants a cut, they will have a cut, 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.040 and therefore the FED could do something at the end 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:02.840 of July when they meet, or they could do something 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:06.239 again when they meet in September. And my guess is 0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:12.240 that some time before the FED meets after the election, 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:14.680 they will do something that'd be my current thinking. The 0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:17.920 economy could change, and obviously data is everything, but right 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.959 now the markets are anticipating, and I think the FED 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:24.520 is not shutting down the idea that something could happen 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:26.000 before the election. 0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:28.680 Before the election, okay, do you think that the election 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:31.279 in any way sways I mean, we're all human, right, 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.880 and we can say we're very objective, but we're human 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:35.799 and impacted by lots of things that are going on 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:38.319 in this world. Do you think that j Powell and 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:41.239 policymakers at the FED might be swayed a little bit 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.520 of small influence when it comes to the November election 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:44.400 presidential election. 0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:46.120 I think the. 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:50.080 FED, everything Jay says, is that they don't really pay 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.800 attention to the election dates. And I think right now, 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.440 since so many people pay attention to the markets and 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.439 the interest rates where they are, that I think that 0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.000 the will do what the data suggests is appropriate. And 0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:04.799 when the data gets to the point where they see 0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:07.759 inflation more or less getting the two percent and the 0:35:07.800 --> 0:35:09.080 economy softening a bit. 0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:10.200 I suspect they. 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:12.839 Will not wait until after the election because they don't 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:15.120 want to be seen as political and therefore, while they 0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:18.160 might be criticized by some for lowering interest rates before 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.279 the end of the before the election's over, I just 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:24.600 think the Fed has given enough signals, including today, that 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:26.319 they're not going to worry about the election. They'll do 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:27.880 what the data suggests is appropriate. 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:29.840 I do wonder, David, as you said, you've talked with 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:33.440 Jay Powell several times, certainly in this format. So monetary 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:36.560 policy obviously in the economy first and foremost, and there 0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:38.520 are certain things that Jay Powell will go you guys 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.240 laugh about some of the things he will obviously not reveal. 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.839 But having said that, at the end of the conversation, 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:45.879 when it comes to the things the Bloomberg audience cares 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.960 so much about in terms of monetary policy and the economy, 0:35:49.080 --> 0:35:51.160 what was your key takeaway from j Powell? 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.120 My key takeaway from the interview and with my discussion 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:56.879 with him, is that he's a man who's very much 0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.839 on top of the data. He enjoys the job, not 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:02.799 worn out by it, doesn't say, well is to me, 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:05.400 I have got all this pressure on my shoulder. I 0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:06.759 think he can deal with it quite well. 0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:07.279 He's used to it. 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:09.120 He's been in the chair for quite some time. I 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.640 think he's reasonably happy now with where the economy is. Remember, 0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:15.720 we didn't go into the hard landing that everybody was predicting. 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.160 People thought there would be a recession that last year 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.720 or this year. That didn't happen. So whoever gets credit 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.160 for it, the FED deserves some share of that credit 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:26.279 because they manage the economy into a really nice soft 0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:29.200 landing so called and so right now, while unemployment is 0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.120 going up, I don't think it's going up by such 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.520 on a level that's scaring people. I think the markets 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:36.239 are in pretty good shape and the economy is in 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:37.120 pretty good shape. 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:40.160 He didn't want to comment on the market, the idea 0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:44.400 of the so called Trump trade returning after this horrific event. 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:47.359 He was clear about that up on top and I'm 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.320 at the top of the interview. But I'm curious about 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:51.800 your view and what you think is being priced into 0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.600 markets right now, David, the Fed chair not weighing in, 0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:57.000 but politically, what is being priced in right now? 0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:00.719 Well, clearly the events, no doubt scared a lot of 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:03.759 people about the violence that is still prevalent in this 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:08.799 country in many areas. Unfortunately, and so fortunately, we did 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:14.280 not have an assassination, though one person did die tragically 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:17.440 and another person still in the hospital for the wounds 0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:22.239 that that person suffered as well. Sad situation. Obviously, the 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:24.800 investigations will figure out what the federal what the Secret 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:27.279 Service could have done differently or better. I'm not an 0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:29.160 expert in that area, so I just can't say what 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.960 they will find. But clearly, you know, we have an 0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:34.440 eliminated violence from our political situation. 0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:38.239 Unfortunately, David, you've served in the federal government. You were 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:40.960 chief counsel to the US Senate Judiciari's Committee sub committee 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:44.160 back in the seventies, Deputy Assistant to the President for 0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:47.960 Domestic Policy during the Carter administration. The democracy has faced 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:50.880 other heavy periods before. It feels rather heavy today. Is 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:52.720 there something different this time around? 0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:53.640 You are? 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.760 I feel like it's safe to say, a student of history, 0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:58.960 you respect past leaders and what they've done. How do 0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:02.240 you make sense of this particular political and historical period. 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:06.120 Well, it's difficult to really put it in context right now. 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.799 Because you can't really tell what the historical impact it 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:11.840 is till many years afterwards. But right now the country 0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:16.000 seems to be fairly bitterly divided between the Democrats and Republicans. 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.239 And it wasn't the case fifty years ago or so. 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:21.920 When John Kennedy ran for president against Richard Nixon in 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:25.239 nineteen sixty, they campaigned in most of the states because 0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:27.319 they didn't know how the states would go. Now the 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:29.920 country's fairly divided, so we know how almost all the 0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:31.919 states are going to go. They're only five or six, 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.120 maybe seven states where it's a kind of a swing state. 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.359 So it's much different than it used to be. The 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:40.279 tensions between both sides seem to be much greater than 0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:43.480 they used to be. Bipartisanship is something that is not 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:46.120 as common as it used to be in Washington, d C. 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:48.960 So I don't know whether the events of this weekend 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:52.440 will scare people into saying we should try to be 0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:57.960 less i'd say violent in our rhetoric and less condemning 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:02.399 of other sides. President Trump has suggested that he would 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:05.480 make a more unifying speech than otherwise was going to make, 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.280 and I think President Biden's speech last night was designed 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:11.320 to also have a unifying impact. Whether we can unify 0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:14.120 our country in a way like this that way I 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.160 think we should, I don't know, but it will probably 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:18.920 have some beneficial impact, though obviously the events were tragic. 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:23.000 David, are you optimistic given the heated political environment right now? 0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:27.680 I'm optimistic that the country is in reasonable shape economically 0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:30.880 politically we can do more than we should than we 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:32.760 have been doing to kind of bring the country together, 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.319 and that part the jury is still out, but I'm 0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:38.280 hopeful that that while the events were tragic over the weekend, 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:41.320 that they'll have some beneficial impact in getting both sides, 0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:44.560 Democrats and Republicans to try to work together more cooperatively. 0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:47.680 J Powell said to you, predictions are very difficult, especially 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:50.560 about the future. When you think about the future for 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:53.759 the United States politically, economically, what's top of mind and 0:39:54.239 --> 0:39:56.520 curious if you have any plans to maybe want to 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:57.520 be at the Federal Reserve. 0:39:57.600 --> 0:39:59.400 You guys talked about if it's a good job. 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:04.000 Well, I think it's really hard to kind of say 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:06.480 that all of a sudden, we're going to eliminate all 0:40:06.480 --> 0:40:08.920 the schisms that we've had in the last couple of years. 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:11.080 Clearly there are a lot of tensions between the two 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:15.480 side political sides. J Powell has been appointed by a 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:18.680 Republican president and reappointed by democratic president, and he's done 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:20.439 a really good job of kind of walking a fine 0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:22.480 line of not trying to be seen as political or 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:24.520 democratic or Republican. I think he deserves a lot of 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:25.120 credit for that. 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:25.560 Well. 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:27.239 I think he's done a good job. I remember, this 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.640 is not a job that anybody really thinks it is 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:33.399 an easy job. Many people who have emerged from the job, 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:38.120 you know, are generally applauded after they've served, but when 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:41.360 they're serving, very often they get criticized by both sides. 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:43.560 And it's hard to be chairman of the FED. And 0:40:43.600 --> 0:40:46.239 in fact, as one chairman of the FED once said, 0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:49.280 William mc chesney Martin, my job is to take away 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:51.759 the punch bowl at the party, which is to say, 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:54.600 take away all the fun that you would you would 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:56.520 want to get. And so that's the job of the 0:40:56.560 --> 0:40:58.279 chairman of the Fed, is to take away the punch bowl. 0:40:58.320 --> 0:40:59.719 And people don't like that. 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:00.520 Absolutely. 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:02.680 David Rubinstein, thank you so much. Busy day for you 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:05.120 and so appreciate checking in with you. Bloomberg host and 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:08.200 Carlile co founder and co chair David Rubinstein. You can 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:11.160 catch his show and conversation with Jay Powell July twenty 0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:13.399 fourth at nine pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg TV. 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:14.440 This is Bloomberg. 0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:18.640 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:21.920 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.160 on Apple car Play and ed Broight Auto with a 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:29.720 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube plenty. 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:31.960 Hen our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg 0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:36.000 Business Week, including a retired NASA astronaut on sharing space 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:38.480 and the privatization of space travel. 0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:41.439 Plus the Porsche's first nine to eleven hybrid that comes 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:44.719 with more power, speed and a start button and a 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:46.959 one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars price tag. 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:48.879 And I got to tell you something. Hannah Elliott, who 0:41:48.880 --> 0:41:51.719 reviews cars for Our World, she loved it all right. 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:54.120 First up this hour the Great Space Race, which when 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:56.080 it comes up, a lot of people probably think of 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.640 the billionaires, you know, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson. 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:02.600 There is a different kind of space race though, happening, 0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:05.320 and that is the race to fill low Earth orbit. 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:06.799 We're talking about satellites. 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:10.160 Originally, launching satellites was the role of governments, but with 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:13.160 the number of satellites orbiting the Earth commercial or otherwise 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:16.279 expected to quadruple in the coming years, it's become an 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:17.880 increasingly commercialized venture. 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:21.280 That is the focus of the new HBO documentary Wild 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:22.920 Wild Space. Take a listen. 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:27.759 You've heard about the billionaire space race. This isn't that movie. 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:31.759 We're in the midst of a revolution in space. It's 0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:32.760 like the Wild West. 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:36.279 The era of governments controlling this stuff is over. 0:42:36.760 --> 0:42:39.240 At Disastrospace, I run a secret rocket company. 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:43.240 Chris is living embodiment of Silicon Valley. 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:46.400 I'm a scientist and he is a capitalist. 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:48.840 We're trying to build Tanasa at one one million to 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:49.680 the budget. 0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:51.160 And people take it really seriously. 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:53.480 Right if you're declaring to the world the have a 0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:56.000 product that works, a bit of bloody work. Now, I 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.000 started rocket Lab in two thousand and six. 0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:01.560 You could not have a more online background for starting 0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:02.440 Arriger company. 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:05.680 No university education, no airspace background. 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:07.200 It's a company. 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:10.920 Peter's rocket is a very high performance machine, but it's 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.400 expensive to build. We often get accused of building priorities 0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:15.160 or more like a Ford, how much more an high 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:15.880 volume product. 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:19.040 If Peter's not right, Peter loses. 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:23.040 If I'm not right, I adapt we hit something. 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:25.680 I'm not built. 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:27.080 I'm going to crucify head. 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:32.480 The fabric of our civilization runs on the satellite. 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:34.080 There is a lot of money. 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:34.440 To be made up. 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:36.640 There is now open to the business. 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:40.319 Nothing's writing on this set of things, like our right 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:41.040 to privacy. 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:44.640 There are commercial companies that have nothing to do with governments, 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.200 snapping pictures day after day in the power of. 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:48.640 The world falling into the wrong hands. 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.960 So now you have thousands of satellites which themselves are 0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:53.399 potentially weapons. 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:57.520 And whoever controls space may very well control the future 0:43:58.440 --> 0:43:59.160 of humanity. 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:05.120 That's the new HBO documentary Wild Wild Space, which premiered 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.480 last Wednesday on the streaming service Max. The documentary is 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:12.440 inspired by Bloomberg BusinessWeek feature writer Ashley Vance's book When 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.680 the Heavens Went On Sale, The Misfits and Geniuses Racing 0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:18.720 to put Space within Reach. Ashley is also the author 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:21.919 of the first Elon Musk biography ever written. It's called 0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:25.840 Elon Musk Tesla SpaceX and The Quest for a Fantastic Future. 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:29.480 He joined us alongside Oscar winning director Ross Kaufman, who 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:32.080 directed Wild, Wild Space, among other films. 0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:36.720 Well, I'd done the Elon Musk biography, which came out 0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:41.640 around twenty fifteen, and was not a space nerd going 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:44.680 into that, but SpaceX was my favorite stuff to report on. 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:47.399 And then right when I finished the book, pretty much 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:51.560 because I think SpaceX had proven some things out and 0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:55.400 commercial space felt real, there were these rocket and satellite 0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:57.520 companies that suddenly were popping up, not just in the 0:44:57.640 --> 0:44:59.680 United States but all over the world, and everyone thought, oh, 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:01.960 be the next deal on Musk and whatever. 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:03.200 You know, people thought, maybe you. 0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:05.319 Can actually make a go of this, and so I 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:07.880 just kind of caught the bug, and I spent a 0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:11.279 couple of years going literally all over the world trying 0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:14.799 to find the most interesting stories, and so, you know, 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:17.200 a bunch of those went into the book, and then 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:20.160 and then started filming a bit along the way. 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:23.279 Just because I had this access to these rooms. 0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:25.040 You don't usually get to have a camera, and we 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:28.080 kind of caught the companies young enough where you were 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.359 able to like be in the Michigan control and film 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:33.799 these things that you never ever get to see when 0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:34.799 a rocket blows up. 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:36.960 And that's what I was amazing about. I'm like, well, 0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:39.120 wait a minute, how the heck did they like? I 0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:41.040 was like, where there was the footage with somebody else, 0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:42.520 but you were filming it all along? 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.240 Yeah, I mean some of this, you know, I credit 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.719 companies were giving us this access and seeing this risk. 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:52.040 Astra Space is one of the main companies in the film. 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.839 The CEO Chris Camp we had this arrangement early on 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.000 when the cup, when it was really five people in 0:45:58.040 --> 0:45:59.560 a garage. He said, look, if you want to go 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:03.080 on this, you can tell the truth whatever happens, good 0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:05.400 or bad, and come with us all the way to 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:07.759 orbit for the first time. And that ended up being 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:12.160 this very winding road. And to Chris's credit, he did 0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:14.040 let me do what he said, and. 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:16.040 You feel it, Ross, come on in. So how did 0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:18.719 you come into the picture. And when you also were 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:20.799 able to finally like see some of this stuff that 0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:24.000 Ashley had you know, filmed, were you like, oh my god, 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:24.520 a gift? 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:28.239 Well it was really I mean, first of all, I 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:31.120 got a call from HBO and they said, hey, Ross, 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:34.880 we have this documentary footage. It wasn't a documentary. 0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:37.600 Yet it's footage that this author. 0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:41.760 From Bloomberg filmed, and it's kind of all over the place, 0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:44.880 be honest with you, And they said, we'd love for 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:46.040 you to come in, take a look at some of 0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:47.880 the footage, and then see if you feel like you 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:49.600 can make a movie out of it in some way, 0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:52.279 shape or form. And so I went in and I 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:54.960 didn't realize no one had told me there was about 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:55.759 three hundred. 0:46:55.520 --> 0:46:56.160 Hours of it. 0:46:56.680 --> 0:46:58.399 So it was a little I was like, Okay, well 0:46:58.440 --> 0:46:59.959 this is a bit more of a job than I thought. 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:03.280 And so but I screened the footage with my editor, 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:05.120 and some of. 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.920 The footage was incredible. I mean being in those. 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:11.000 Rooms where rockets crash and it was really it was. 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:11.920 It was incredible. 0:47:12.239 --> 0:47:16.040 And then some of the footage was really not it 0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.280 was it was funny. We really had to really gut 0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:19.280 through it all and. 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:21.399 Try to figure out what I love. 0:47:21.480 --> 0:47:24.040 And I said this before, is that when you first 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:27.360 started shooting Ashley, the footage is not very good because 0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:29.319 you didn't really know how to film the people. But 0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:33.240 as you progress, as the years went by, the footage 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:36.440 got better because you and so and it mirrored how 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:40.759 the companies functioned right, and it really like stylistically it 0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:41.360 was perfect. 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:43.879 But who could have ever thought that anyway? So that's 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:45.080 kind of how I got involved. 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:47.040 At what point, Ross, did you did you sort of 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:49.279 have the story come into place. 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:52.200 About five minutes before we finished editor. 0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:56.040 Because because it is it really is. It's it's not 0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:58.319 you're not telling it. You're sort of telling a story 0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:00.880 in real time. I mean, you know this stuff is. 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:02.879 You can check the stock prices of some of these 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:06.719 companies today. Still you might not want to exactly for 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:10.440 some of them, but you follow the process from essentially 0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:12.719 from birth all the way to going public during this 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.360 this crazy run up during like with SPACs and COVID, 0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:17.040 Like when when did you figure out the story? 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:20.960 Well, we were literally shooting until maybe a month before 0:48:20.960 --> 0:48:21.759 we finished editing. 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:22.000 Wow. 0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:24.840 Yeah, things are happening. And that's the beauty of verite documentaries. 0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:27.680 You're following things as they're progressing, right. I mean this 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:30.759 kind of film kind of stops. It doesn't end, you 0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:32.280 know what I mean, I mean the film itse OpenDS. 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:34.440 But the problem like, all right, we have to stop 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:37.360 filming at some point, and this is the film. So 0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:39.600 it's that's kind of what I love about this kind 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:42.040 of filmmaking is fly on the wall filmmaking. You don't 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:44.160 really you get in that edit room and that's where 0:48:44.160 --> 0:48:45.440 you craft the story. 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:49.040 Well, Ashley is an incredible storyteller, and we've been very 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:51.000 lucky to have him here at Bloomberg and be able 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.359 to talk to him about all of his stories on 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:56.520 space and whatever you're working on. Having said that, how 0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:58.560 was it to see kind of the book come to 0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:02.160 life and what was important to you in telling these stories? 0:49:02.600 --> 0:49:04.560 It was really cool, as ross was saying, you know, 0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:06.680 I had never made a film before. I just had 0:49:06.680 --> 0:49:09.520 this idea, this would be a cool thing to try 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:11.480 to do a movie in a book. At the same time, 0:49:11.520 --> 0:49:14.640 it turns out I bit off more than I could chew. 0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:17.320 And look, I mean, ross has won an Academy Award. 0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:19.360 It was amazing to have him come on. And so 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:22.120 you know, he came on with fresh eyes. I'd spent 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:24.759 years reporting on these subjects. You start to lose a 0:49:24.760 --> 0:49:27.799 little bit of perspective of what the wider world knows, 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.000 what they don't know, what's what's going to appeal And 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:34.200 so Rossie got through the book, he'd gone through the 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:37.680 footage and as you as you guys saw a lot 0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:40.880 of this stories. This group of friends who were at 0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:43.799 NASA Ames which is the NASA Silicon Valley Center in 0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.840 their twenties. They had this guy, Pete Warden, who was 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:51.680 the head. He's this iconoclastic brigadier general who wanted. 0:49:51.560 --> 0:49:53.400 There's a dad and the grandfather and the uncle all 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:54.400 rolled right. 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:56.920 He brought it all these young kids and wanted them 0:49:56.960 --> 0:49:59.360 to do weird stuff in space like go show that 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.600 NASA can be better, was basically it. And so I 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:06.000 think Russ got into a lot of that part of 0:50:06.000 --> 0:50:08.120 the story and that sort of ends up becoming the 0:50:08.200 --> 0:50:10.600 heart and so no, it was really gratifying. 0:50:10.120 --> 0:50:13.120 To see it come out of the book and to see. 0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:16.120 How another storyteller what they were interested in and how 0:50:16.120 --> 0:50:17.160 they told it well. 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:19.520 Actually certainly a prominent part of the film, but it 0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:21.480 also focuses on three founders. 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:22.399 We've mentioned some of them. 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:25.960 Peter Beck of Rocket Lab, Chris Camp of Astra, and 0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.400 Will Marshall of Planet Labs. Coming in from a perspective 0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:32.319 of somebody outside of the industry as a filmmaker, I mean, 0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:34.560 are there three more perfect characters who you could put 0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:36.600 on the screen and follow I mean, these guys are 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:39.399 truly well it was for. 0:50:39.360 --> 0:50:45.040 Different reasons, absolutely, but there's this unifying principle that we 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:47.600 kind of came up with at a certain point very 0:50:47.600 --> 0:50:50.040 early on, and it kind of everything kind of fell 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.520 into place. The principle was, like, I love found families, 0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:55.640 and all my films they end up being these crazy 0:50:55.680 --> 0:51:00.719 families that are and in this case, this this Brigadier 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:03.400 General Pete Warden brought in these young people and they 0:51:03.480 --> 0:51:06.440 became this little found family and I was like, that's 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:08.879 kind of what I love like And there was love there, 0:51:08.960 --> 0:51:12.080 their friendship. There's love and that's kind of a big 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:15.760 part of this film, and people just have a great time, 0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:18.000 like it's this is a really funny film. 0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:18.960 It's a bit of a romp. 0:51:19.280 --> 0:51:21.880 And but so bringing these people together, figuring out the 0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:24.839 characters because the Ashley's book is it's got more than 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.400 three or four characters, right, you know, like multiple multiple 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:31.040 characters and companies. So that was, you know, just trying 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:32.719 to figure out who do we follow. Well, that was 0:51:32.760 --> 0:51:35.560 the principle that we went with and I think it worked. 0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:35.960 Yeah. 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:38.440 I do feel like the three main characters are kind 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.279 of you know, Friday and Id Ego. 0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:40.640 And Super Ego. 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:42.400 Hope we can talk about that just a moment to 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:46.200 think archetypes. Did you guys agree though? These were the 0:51:46.200 --> 0:51:48.200 three characters, these were the three companies you had to 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:49.040 tell the story about. 0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:51.319 I think there were a lot of discussions along the way, 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:53.359 but we never had really I don't ever remember any 0:51:53.440 --> 0:51:54.880 fights or disputes or anything. 0:51:54.880 --> 0:51:57.680 I think, yeah, well, I'm just to say very clearly 0:51:58.000 --> 0:52:00.279 like I had a couple of things going. I mean, 0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:03.000 one and nothing is about space, and two Ashley is 0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.480 an incredible person to work with. The book was amazing, 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:07.160 So it was it was kind of scenes. 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:17.920 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:52:18.040 --> 0:52:20.839 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.920 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Ada. You 0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:27.239 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:31.400 New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:34.400 We're back talking with a couple of the folks behind 0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.680 Wild Wild Space. It's a new HBO documentary. As we mentioned, 0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:40.880 the film follows entrepreneurs of three companies. One of those 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.760 is Astra Space. And here's the co founder of Astra 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.160 Chris Kemp counting down to a launch. 0:52:47.040 --> 0:52:51.520 This is our last day in our launch window. We're 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:54.120 going to get it this time. Hey, it's gonna happen. 0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:55.720 It's gonna happen. 0:52:55.960 --> 0:53:03.040 So too, County County down ten ban Hey seven six, 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:08.200 five four three two one. 0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:21.839 Go well that one obviously, I'm go say for those 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:25.319 listening on radio, the launch finally went off. In case 0:53:25.360 --> 0:53:26.040 you were wondering. 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:28.640 That's from Wild Wild Space, the new documentary premiering at 0:53:28.680 --> 0:53:30.920 nine pm tonight, Wall Street Time on HBO. 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.160 All right, let's get back to Ashley Vance, features writer 0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:35.880 at Bloomberg business Week, author of the first Elon Musk biography, 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:39.640 Elon Musk, Tesla, SpaceX and The Quest for a Fantastic Future, 0:53:39.680 --> 0:53:42.080 and a producer of the film and with US Academy 0:53:42.080 --> 0:53:44.480 Award winner Russ Kaufman. He is the director of Wild 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:47.120 Wild Space and earlier film of his Born Into Brothels, 0:53:47.160 --> 0:53:50.120 won the Oscar for Best Documentary two thousand and five 0:53:50.160 --> 0:53:52.480 as well as the Emmy for Best Documentary two thousand 0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:54.880 and five. And he's been taking pictures in the studio 0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:56.800 and we're assuming they're going to be killer pictures. We 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:58.359 all want copies of them. We're just going to put 0:53:58.400 --> 0:53:59.960 it out there, maybe get us an academy. 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:02.839 It's a lot of pressure, pressure, all right. 0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:05.600 So actually tell us, I keep saying the id ego 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:09.279 and super ego. You do have three main characters and 0:54:09.400 --> 0:54:10.879 companies that are profiled. 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:13.600 Tell us about tell us about them. 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:14.160 Yeah. 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:16.120 Well, Chris camp who we got to see in the clip. 0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:19.800 I always thought of him as this archetype of Silicon 0:54:19.920 --> 0:54:24.520 Valley almost. He's this unbridled ambition, this person who will 0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:29.040 stop it and nothing to achieve his goals. He's, as 0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:32.640 we mentioned in the film, he's a capitalist and quite driven. 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:35.400 We have this guy, Will Marshall, who is the founder 0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:38.719 and CEO of Planet Labs. I've known him forever. We 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.239 describe him as a space hippie in the film. I 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:44.680 think that's fair. He's always tried. He kind of came 0:54:44.719 --> 0:54:46.840 from this university background where he was trying to do 0:54:46.920 --> 0:54:50.440 good in space. They've created all these imaging satellites that 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:53.759 track rainforest and the movement of refugees and things like that. 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:56.280 And then we've got Peter Beck who comes from New Zealand. 0:54:56.520 --> 0:54:59.120 It's probably one of the most incredible stories you'll ever hear. 0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:04.200 College education. He's self taught in aerospace, which does not happen, 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.640 you know, just so people know a PhD at the 0:55:08.760 --> 0:55:11.799 least to do this. And you know, these days, rocket 0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:16.000 Lab is the really after SpaceX is really the most 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:20.279 legit rocket company there is. And Peter is just that 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:24.960 archetypal engineer. I mean he is he is rockets called 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:26.960 to him. He has to build things with his hands. 0:55:27.000 --> 0:55:29.000 This is what he was put on Earth to do. 0:55:29.120 --> 0:55:31.319 And he's possessed and all that. And then some of 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:34.640 these characters, we see them, these things get challenged over 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:35.239 over time. 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.000 You know, well, Marshall. 0:55:37.200 --> 0:55:39.400 Starts as a space hippie, still still is one, but 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:41.160 planet goes public during all this. 0:55:41.320 --> 0:55:42.960 It does a lot of deals with governments. 0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:48.279 It's it's satellites sit in this weird place between nonprofit 0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:51.200 and and not spying but kind of watching everything that 0:55:51.320 --> 0:55:53.960 happens for governments. And so, you know, I think the 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:55.239 film gets into some of that. 0:55:55.520 --> 0:55:57.680 Yeah, talk a little bit about that tension Ross, because 0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:01.360 that's that's something that is certainly notable. Is this idea 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:05.080 of optimism an opportunity among the characters. But at the 0:56:05.120 --> 0:56:10.520 same time, this idea of democratizing imaging of every single thing, 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:14.759 every single day on Earth is something that if not 0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:19.840 used correctly and in the hands of somebody with ulterior motives, 0:56:20.040 --> 0:56:21.279 isn't necessarily a good thing. 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:22.160 Absolutely. 0:56:22.880 --> 0:56:25.560 I mean it's like anything. I mean, look at the Internet, right, 0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.520 people went in with the best intentions and doesn't always 0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:34.120 work out. Individuals are flawed. It's gray area. These companies 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:39.600 have to make money. It's a slippery slope, and you know, 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:43.359 we're kind of dependent on these individuals hoping that they 0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:47.360 will do the right thing. But when it comes to 0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:51.399 the bottom line, you know, even the best intentions can 0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:56.040 sometimes go awry. So it's a I feel like this 0:56:56.120 --> 0:56:59.160 film also sheds light on a lot of the issues 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:01.880 that we are not only facing, but we will face. 0:57:02.760 --> 0:57:04.160 I got to tell you, one of the things that 0:57:04.239 --> 0:57:06.719 kind of blew my mind is just how crowded it's getting. 0:57:06.719 --> 0:57:08.759 I know, Bloomberg has done some reporting on this, and 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:11.279 you think about, you know, all of these satellites that 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:15.160 are you know, floating around and I do wonder kind 0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:17.600 of how you were thinking about that, and do we 0:57:17.680 --> 0:57:19.400 need to be worried? Do we need to clean it up? 0:57:19.440 --> 0:57:21.880 It's something you guys bring up in the film. 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.080 I thought about it a lot, and part of the 0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:26.960 reason I went into this book and the film was 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:29.480 I'm a nerd, so I'm interested in the stuff. But 0:57:29.520 --> 0:57:31.000 I thought like the rest of the world wasn't paying 0:57:31.040 --> 0:57:33.600 a lot of attention to what's going on. Again, I 0:57:33.600 --> 0:57:36.320 think the film is funny. I tend to be pretty 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:39.760 optimistic about things, but we do raise these these questions. 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:43.480 Most people have not paid attention as we've gone from 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:46.840 two thousand satellites in orbit to very quickly ten thousand, 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:48.200 and we're heading to one hundred thousand. 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:51.000 There is because they're going up every day. 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:52.680 They're going up, you know, are often. 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:54.560 It used to be a rocket went up once a 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:57.560 month and that was pretty good, and SpaceX is going 0:57:57.640 --> 0:58:01.400 almost every two days now, and we really are on 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.680 this exponential curve with the number of satellites that are 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:06.920 going up. So the question is, you know, are humans 0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:09.880 every time humans find some new place that's interesting, they 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:12.320 want to go. Usually some bad things start to happen 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:13.120 pretty quickly. 0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:16.000 And this is our last. 0:58:15.960 --> 0:58:19.200 Not even pristine anymore, but our last bit of new 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:21.800 territory to barge into, and so, you know, are we 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:25.080 going to repeat all the mistakes we've made here on Earth? 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:27.600 Are we going to do something different? All these companies 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:31.000 and governments and actors are incentive to make this work 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:34.680 because the second something blows up and creates a bunch 0:58:34.720 --> 0:58:37.720 of debris, none of this stuff can operate. 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:37.800 It. 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:39.000 It's bad for everybody. 0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:41.080 But we have to be worried about that right now. 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:43.960 If you think about defense, right people. 0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:46.200 Make mistakes, and we show in the movie you know Russia, 0:58:46.280 --> 0:58:48.360 So Russia's the wild Guard and all this. Their space 0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:52.560 programs in the decline, but they're very proud and nation 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:54.640 and they have this great space history. They shot a 0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:56.680 missile a couple of years ago at one of their 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:59.520 own satellites just to remind everybody that they can do that. 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:02.720 And so so yeah, so people can have the best intentions, 0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:04.760 but that doesn't always mean it's gonna work out. 0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:07.960 Well, what after you coming in? Ros says sort of 0:59:08.000 --> 0:59:10.920 a newbie when it comes to space. What what was 0:59:10.960 --> 0:59:13.320 the thing that you took away that kind of keeps 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:13.880 you up at night? 0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:17.640 Oh, there's so much. 0:59:17.920 --> 0:59:20.920 Yeah, and this idea of private individuals kind of pulling 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:26.959 the strings listen to space debris. Just the idea that 0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:30.600 I mean, I read the other day that if America 0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:34.680 for some reason, our internet goes out, we lose GPS, 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:39.440 we lose satellites, there's no real backup plan. It's one 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:43.479 of those things where who knows what could go down 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:46.800 if you know, one of these worst case scenarios happened. 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.080 The fact that there's no real backup plan, that's kind 0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:52.320 of one of the most frightening. 0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:52.360 Things to me. 0:59:52.520 --> 0:59:54.760 Have you seen Leave the World Behind with Jillia. 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:56.959 Roberts, Oh my god, Yes, it's. 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.120 Kind of when things go astray and all the tesla's 0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:00.320 it's not a document. 1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:02.520 Are on the highway, all coming to one space. 1:00:02.920 --> 1:00:04.640 Yes, definitely see that movie. 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:07.200 It just reminds us how dependent we are on all 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:09.320 those satellites and all this connectivity. 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:11.480 Hey, Ashulely, I wanted to ask about Elon Musk because 1:00:11.520 --> 1:00:13.760 the film is not about Elon, but there are some 1:00:14.120 --> 1:00:15.920 references to him, and you see him a little bit. 1:00:16.600 --> 1:00:19.360 I was thinking, you know, with SpaceX being so successful 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:23.040 at what these companies want to do, is there any 1:00:23.120 --> 1:00:26.680 chance that there's room for more than just SpaceX, Because 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:28.440 make no mistake, they're the best at it. 1:00:28.720 --> 1:00:30.920 Yeah, it's an open question. I mean, they're the world's 1:00:30.960 --> 1:00:34.000 biggest rocket maker. And the world's biggest satellite maker. So 1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:36.920 that's a problem for some of these other companies. Lots 1:00:36.960 --> 1:00:39.600 of people try look, rocket Lab and Peter Beck in 1:00:39.640 --> 1:00:42.760 this film are very legit. They they just had their 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:45.600 fiftieth launch. They did that faster than SpaceX. They got 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:46.760 they got to fifty fist. 1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:47.520 Did they become a tesla? 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:49.360 I mean, no, SpaceX, excuse. 1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:49.880 Me, people, way to go. 1:00:49.960 --> 1:00:51.640 The next rocket they're trying to make is a very 1:00:51.680 --> 1:00:53.560 direct competitor to the Falcon nine. 1:00:53.680 --> 1:00:55.440 I have a ton of faith. 1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:57.320 That Peter Beck will figure out whatever he puts his 1:00:57.400 --> 1:01:01.000 mind to, but SpaceX is clear they're the dominant force. 1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:03.800 I would say rocket Lab, I would imagine that those 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:06.280 two companies are the ones to stay for a long time. 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:10.080 I am curious when you guys do a documentary film 1:01:10.160 --> 1:01:12.840 like this, is there is it a three or four 1:01:12.840 --> 1:01:15.200 hour film when it gets cut down or right from 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:17.960 the get go, Ross you're keeping it kind of lean 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:18.320 and mean. 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:21.720 Well, I always like to kind of make a film 1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:24.680 whatever length it kind of needs to be. It sort 1:01:24.720 --> 1:01:26.720 of speaks to us in a way throughout the edit, 1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:29.360 but we knew very clearly this was a feature documentary. 1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:32.439 Hover around ninety minutes. I always like to make it 1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:36.040 as short and effective and efficiently as possible. 1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:37.560 So there wasn't severe editing at the end. 1:01:37.880 --> 1:01:41.800 There is always severe editing every moment. But yeah, like 1:01:41.920 --> 1:01:44.560 but we're like surgeons by the end. We're cutting out 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:47.360 every frame, like every frame that makes sense to cut out. 1:01:47.760 --> 1:01:50.440 It's really I love the process. With an incredible editor, 1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:53.400 patient porter on this film. I producer Jay Callen. It 1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:54.280 was just a great team. 1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:56.200 So all right, just got about a couple of minutes. 1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:59.080 I am curious, we are curious. What do you want 1:01:59.120 --> 1:02:00.960 people or why do you want them to watch it? 1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:02.480 And what do you want them to take away? Let 1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:03.800 me go to you first ross. 1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:07.080 You know, I like to go into these movies without 1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:10.479 any really preconceived notions going in, and I even don't 1:02:10.480 --> 1:02:12.840 even like to think about what people will take away 1:02:12.880 --> 1:02:14.720 from it at the end. I just want people to 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:19.280 go in see this movie, try to just understand. One 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:20.600 of the things I like to do is just trick 1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:24.160 people into caring, so in a way through great characters, 1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:26.440 great stories. That's kind of what I love to do. 1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:29.640 And then the information and you know, all the different 1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:34.680 all the different issues and problems Hopefully through these characters, 1:02:34.840 --> 1:02:36.600 they will come to a place where they care about 1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:38.560 the issues that these characters care about. 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:40.720 You told stories, and you gave us a lot to 1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:42.840 care about. How about for you, Ashley, what do you 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:43.800 want people to come away with? 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.960 Well, look, for sixty years, space was dominated by a 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:50.240 handful of governments. Almost any story you've ever seen about 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:53.360 space revolves around that. It's some courageous pilot, it's some 1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:55.880 genius in a room solving a problem. 1:02:56.320 --> 1:02:57.400 Pr film, I think is the. 1:02:57.320 --> 1:02:59.760 First ever look at the reality of what space is 1:02:59.840 --> 1:03:01.680 like now, which is this is a business. 1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:03.720 It's full of real humans. 1:03:03.800 --> 1:03:08.480 There's struggle, there's comedy, there's tragedy, there's pride, there's ego, 1:03:08.680 --> 1:03:11.480 all of that, and so you know, I really, honestly 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:13.680 I cover this stuff all the time for many years. 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:16.320 I think this is the first true look at what 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:19.600 modern space looks like, and it's amazing. 1:03:19.800 --> 1:03:21.400 Modern space also means there's going to be a lot 1:03:21.440 --> 1:03:24.040 more companies. I mean already there were a lot. 1:03:23.960 --> 1:03:25.760 Right that is absolutely we're kind of in this weird 1:03:25.840 --> 1:03:28.560 period where the first wave there's a few going bankrupt, 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:31.960 but there's already many many rocket startups coming to replace 1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:34.480 them and so yeah, I mean we're in the very 1:03:34.480 --> 1:03:36.880 first innings of where all this is going as far 1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:39.080 as commercial space is disconcerned. 1:03:39.360 --> 1:03:42.920 Well, congratulations guys, thank you so much. We enjoyed watching it. 1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:45.840 And good luck and it's making its debut. Wild Wild 1:03:45.960 --> 1:03:50.080 Space a new HBO documentary, premiering nine pm tonight, Wall 1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:51.160 Street Time on HBO. 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:52.200 So check it out, everybody. 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:52.520 Yeah. 1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:55.240 The film based on Ashley Vance's book When the Heavens 1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:58.200 Went On Sale, The Misfits and Geniuses racing to put. 1:03:58.080 --> 1:03:59.080 Space within reach. 1:03:59.080 --> 1:04:02.880 He's also features at a Bloomberg BusinessWeek also with us 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:07.920 Ross Kaufman Academy Award winner, the director of Wild Wild Space. 1:04:08.040 --> 1:04:11.040 Check out the film tonight at nine pm. 1:04:11.120 --> 1:04:12.320 We watched, We loved. 1:04:12.440 --> 1:04:13.880 It's very, very incredible. 1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:18.400 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 1:04:18.440 --> 1:04:21.680 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:24.800 on Applecarplay and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:28.240 app or watch us live on YouTube. 1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:31.120 Sticking on the topic of space, this hour, our next 1:04:31.120 --> 1:04:33.240 guest sure knows a lot about it. She has spent 1:04:33.280 --> 1:04:36.320 more than four thousand hours in space and been part 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:39.480 of three NASA missions, including a six month mission to 1:04:39.520 --> 1:04:42.360 the International Space Station that launched one day after her 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:43.440 fiftieth birthday. 1:04:43.840 --> 1:04:46.880 Now retired Catherine Coleman breaks down the insights she found 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:50.320 essential to her success. It's all in her book Sharing Space, 1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:54.360 An Astronaut's Guide to Mission Wonder and Making Change. She 1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:57.200 joined me along with Bloomberg's Katie Graefeld in. 1:04:57.160 --> 1:04:59.440 Some ways now by being a retired astronaut, I get 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.480 to go out and talk a lot and talk about 1:05:02.480 --> 1:05:04.440 my experiences, and I am somebody that actually kind of 1:05:04.480 --> 1:05:07.560 processes their life through talking, you know, with others, and 1:05:07.600 --> 1:05:11.560 makes decisions that way. And it's I think what needed 1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:13.360 to be in the book, you know, sort of got 1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:16.160 brought together by going out and doing these talks and 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:20.800 looking out into audiences in realizing what was essential. Like 1:05:20.840 --> 1:05:24.680 I remember one one group of women, they were all 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:28.600 like seniors in college, being courted at the very big 1:05:28.640 --> 1:05:33.120 computer conference basically being their speaker and realizing this was 1:05:33.160 --> 1:05:35.240 an audience of about one hundred young women, all in 1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:39.400 computer science and engineering, and realizing that this is them, 1:05:39.520 --> 1:05:42.200 they are the future. And I have only like twenty 1:05:42.240 --> 1:05:44.560 minutes to impart to them things. I think they really 1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:47.560 need to know so little moments like that I think 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:48.520 really led to the book. 1:05:48.600 --> 1:05:49.920 Well, I want to talk a little bit about your 1:05:49.960 --> 1:05:53.120 career because it's been it's been so interesting. I mean, 1:05:53.480 --> 1:05:57.760 a PhD from UMass Amhurst, you went to MIT Ratzi 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:01.120 was sort of your introduction into service. It sounds like, 1:06:01.760 --> 1:06:04.760 can you start, like, give us the abridge version of 1:06:04.760 --> 1:06:07.200 how you found yourself, how you were able to become 1:06:07.240 --> 1:06:08.640 an astronaut. 1:06:08.480 --> 1:06:09.120 What was it like. 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:12.160 It's one of the two main reasons that I wrote 1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:15.000 the book was that you're up there. And it's not 1:06:15.120 --> 1:06:17.120 just about the floating. You know, you see my hair 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:19.800 be big and we're floating around. It's about the fact 1:06:19.840 --> 1:06:22.960 that you fly from place to place. It's the only 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:25.360 way to get around, and it kind of reminds you 1:06:25.400 --> 1:06:28.160 that you're in a place that almost nobody else is in. 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:31.240 All the rules are different, which is extremely important for 1:06:31.320 --> 1:06:33.280 science and all the stuff we can learn up there. 1:06:33.440 --> 1:06:35.840 And at the same time, it's also a human thing 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:38.040 to realize that you are one of In this case, 1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:40.960 right now, there's thirteen let's see twelve people up in 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:44.320 space on different space stations as we speak, and they're 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:45.160 at the very edge. 1:06:45.560 --> 1:06:50.120 I literally cannot imagine it. And I always wonder how 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:53.200 people prepare themselves for things. How do you even prepare 1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:56.800 for an experience that you know you've never had before? 1:06:56.840 --> 1:07:00.400 I mean, what is the physical reality of training look 1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:02.320 like to get ready to be in space? 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:05.840 I think there's that all that practicing. It's the reality 1:07:05.880 --> 1:07:07.480 of needing to be as safe as you can be. 1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.000 Spaceflight will never be safe, but we need to be 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:12.400 as safe as we can. And that means you, as 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:14.840 a crew member, being able to do your part. You know, 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:16.800 if this happens, we need to do this. If there's 1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:19.360 a fire alarm, you need to you know, don your 1:07:19.720 --> 1:07:22.440 mask and get to the main computer and you know, 1:07:22.440 --> 1:07:25.280 and take the certain steps. And so we practice those things, 1:07:25.320 --> 1:07:27.880 we drill them, and we're also of course graded and 1:07:27.960 --> 1:07:32.240 watched and observed, and that adds that extra tension that 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:35.280 helps you make the mistakes that you might make on 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:38.520 the real day when that stress comes from seeing actual 1:07:38.560 --> 1:07:41.280 smoke or realizing you might need to lose leave the 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:44.560 space station really quickly. So we do practice all those things. 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:47.920 We've got great smart instructors. But then it is really 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:51.400 just amazing to then be up there and be able 1:07:51.440 --> 1:07:53.720 to operate, and I think also to be able to 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:56.880 be sort of mentally present as a human. That's a 1:07:56.920 --> 1:07:59.760 really another big important part to think about before you go. 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:02.640 Yeah, and I'm again so many things that I can't 1:08:02.640 --> 1:08:06.120 imagine about what you just said. Seeing smoke in space 1:08:06.720 --> 1:08:09.960 and being able to control oneself is pretty remarkable. And 1:08:09.960 --> 1:08:12.520 I'm curious what it's like coming back because you see 1:08:12.520 --> 1:08:15.760 clips on YouTube sometimes with astronauts coming back from space 1:08:15.800 --> 1:08:18.479 and they forget that they're in zero there. Now there's 1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:20.960 gravity on Earth and they you know, they drop whatever 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:23.839 they're holding because they expected to just you know, float 1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:27.120 by them. I mean, have you had any experiences like that? 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:29.080 What does the return trip actually look like? 1:08:29.479 --> 1:08:33.519 Well, it's but I would say the words sad, wild, 1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:36.559 and then just nice to be home. I really didn't 1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:38.800 want to leave, you know, it was it takes a 1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:40.479 couple of months to get good at the work up 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:43.360 there about not just understanding how to keep everything in 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:46.040 its place and do all the experiments and get more done. 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:48.640 It really has about a month long learning curse. You 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:50.760 just want to stay and get more done. And I 1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.479 felt like my family would be there when I got home, 1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:55.600 and so I wanted to stay, so it was a 1:08:55.600 --> 1:08:58.640 little sad. It is as Scott Kelly, who was I 1:08:58.720 --> 1:09:01.280 was on a crew with Scott, and he talked to 1:09:01.320 --> 1:09:03.519 us before we came home and talk to us about 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:05.640 what landing was like. You said, it's the best e 1:09:05.840 --> 1:09:09.639 ticket ride you will ever go. Where I mean you're 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:12.519 coming down and I mean spacecraft are built this way 1:09:12.640 --> 1:09:15.920 where we haven't a blative shield under the spacecraft. That 1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:18.920 means it's supposed to actually burn up, and pieces of 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:21.879 burning spacecraft are supposed to go buy the windows. 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:23.120 Wow. 1:09:23.360 --> 1:09:25.679 And so knowing that is very comforting, I mean actually 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:27.960 having it narrated and understanding what's happening. And he's like, 1:09:28.160 --> 1:09:31.160 and then parachute opening and he looks at me. He 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:35.200 goes Coleman, set a timer. Parachute opening because you need 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.680 to make sure that you are not talking because it 1:09:38.760 --> 1:09:41.880 is so abrupt, And then that capsule is spinning and 1:09:42.080 --> 1:09:44.879 swinging and it is really wild, and then it settles 1:09:44.880 --> 1:09:48.280 down and then you're just watching the watching the sort 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:50.840 of the feet clocked down and realizing you're just going 1:09:50.880 --> 1:09:53.759 to hit the ground with a really big, solid funk, 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:55.360 and you just hope you're not going to get dragged 1:09:55.360 --> 1:09:56.720 around by that parachute. 1:09:56.880 --> 1:09:58.439 Hey, Katie, I'm wondering if you can talk to us 1:09:58.439 --> 1:10:01.360 a little bit about the way that borders kind of 1:10:01.400 --> 1:10:04.680 melt in space. And the reason I'm bringing this up 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:10.320 is because you know the ISS, for example, US Space Agency, 1:10:10.720 --> 1:10:15.240 ros Cosmos, Russian Space Agency, European Space Agency, Japan, Canada. 1:10:15.520 --> 1:10:18.160 Oftentimes you're with people from all over the world as 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:22.960 an astronaut, and although countries might not get along on 1:10:23.000 --> 1:10:26.920 the ground, sometimes you're getting along in space. And I'm 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:31.600 wondering what your experience was seeing the world kind of 1:10:31.640 --> 1:10:32.960 come together in space. 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:36.320 Being part of you know, not just the mission up there, 1:10:36.439 --> 1:10:39.760 but the getting ready. It's been my experience that, you know, 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:42.000 the governments say this is what we're going to do together, 1:10:42.080 --> 1:10:45.080 and there's formal agreements, but it is the people that 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:48.479 really bring the mission together and make it happen, because 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:52.000 it happens by having dinner with each other, by going 1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:55.240 for walks, by saying, what's your family like? Can I 1:10:55.280 --> 1:10:59.519 meet your family? And that's really what brought our crew together. 1:10:59.840 --> 1:11:02.800 And so being up there, especially in times like these, 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:06.200 all I can say is from what I understand, everyone 1:11:06.280 --> 1:11:08.479 is doing their job and not and that means on 1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:11.400 the ground. That means the crew up in space and 1:11:11.479 --> 1:11:14.200 not even thinking about not doing their job, because the 1:11:14.240 --> 1:11:17.360 mission itself is really really clear. Up there. You are 1:11:17.400 --> 1:11:20.840 together as a crew keeping each other safe. And you know, 1:11:21.080 --> 1:11:23.000 down here on the ground, we don't always agree with 1:11:23.000 --> 1:11:26.080 each other. Hear all about it on your show. I mean, 1:11:26.080 --> 1:11:28.840 it's and it's not easy, and sometimes you just have 1:11:28.920 --> 1:11:31.479 to like put the things you can't agree about they're 1:11:31.920 --> 1:11:33.880 they're not part of the mission right now, which is 1:11:34.320 --> 1:11:36.200 in our case down here figuring out how are we 1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:38.519 going to make sure everybody can live safely down here 1:11:38.600 --> 1:11:39.000 on Earth. 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:41.719 What do you make of the rise of private enterprise 1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:45.360 companies like SpaceX and certainly Boeing to a lesser extent, 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:48.360 supplanning a lot of what NASA has historically done. 1:11:48.720 --> 1:11:51.400 The more the more the merrier, not to trivialize it, 1:11:51.479 --> 1:11:54.519 but more people in the game, bringing their ideas, their 1:11:54.640 --> 1:11:56.839 new ways to do things and doing them in concert. 1:11:57.160 --> 1:11:59.479 We talk about these companies as if they're alone, but 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:03.519 are often doing things with NASA for NASA, and I 1:12:03.560 --> 1:12:06.520 think you know each of these we talk about the billionaires, 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:08.880 but each of them has a vision, and they have resources, 1:12:09.120 --> 1:12:11.240 and they have, you know, a vision of how to 1:12:11.280 --> 1:12:14.320 pave the way to space for more people, And each 1:12:14.320 --> 1:12:17.439 of those visions I find to be valuable. And I 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:19.600 like to look more at the substance than at the 1:12:19.960 --> 1:12:23.600 people there, and just to see what they're accomplishing, and 1:12:23.680 --> 1:12:25.439 I like what each of them are doing. The more 1:12:25.479 --> 1:12:28.840 people you bring up on orbit, the more people get 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:31.800 that view and understand actually the magnitude of what we 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:32.280 can do. 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:35.000 One thing we wanted to talk about is Mars, and 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:41.080 we mentioned Elon Musk's lifelong dream is to colonize Mars. 1:12:41.320 --> 1:12:46.320 What are your thoughts on colonizing Mars or actually putting 1:12:46.400 --> 1:12:47.320 humans on that planet. 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:51.680 Eventually, absolutely, we will be doing that, and I think 1:12:51.720 --> 1:12:54.200 it's a good time for everybody to be thinking about 1:12:54.200 --> 1:12:57.639 it and how to do it and even thinking, you know, 1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:00.640 I like to think about settling Mars. Swich to me 1:13:00.680 --> 1:13:03.719 and pop implies more like having a plan and going 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:08.280 there together. And you know, for one country to be 1:13:08.400 --> 1:13:11.280 the only country there doesn't seem like the right thing 1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:13.880 to me. And I think that comes from that view 1:13:13.920 --> 1:13:16.040 from the space station of looking back at the Earth, 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:20.559 and you talked about dissolving borders. When I look back 1:13:20.600 --> 1:13:23.439 there I see. First of all, I feel very close 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:27.080 to home. But second I see that everyone could be 1:13:27.160 --> 1:13:30.760 and actually is so connected if only they knew how 1:13:30.800 --> 1:13:33.960 much we could accomplish more together. And that includes doing 1:13:33.960 --> 1:13:35.840 the most important thing I think we'll do, which is 1:13:36.520 --> 1:13:38.960 colonizing and going off and settling on Mars. 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:42.360 Very very cool. Thank you so much for sharing some 1:13:42.439 --> 1:13:46.000 of your journey with us. You can read more about 1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:49.320 Katie Coleman's journey in her new book out today. It's 1:13:49.320 --> 1:13:53.720 called Sharing Space, An Astronaut's Guide to Mission Wonder and 1:13:54.080 --> 1:13:55.120 Making Change. 1:13:55.439 --> 1:14:03.240 This in this Business Week, you're listening to the Bloomberg 1:14:03.320 --> 1:14:07.080 Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:09.960 pm Eastern on Apple car Play and Android Auto with 1:14:10.000 --> 1:14:13.000 the Bloomberg Business Ad. You can also listen live on 1:14:13.040 --> 1:14:16.360 Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say 1:14:16.439 --> 1:14:19.000 Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:23.920 From Space Exploration to exploring the first Porscha nine to 1:14:23.920 --> 1:14:25.000 eleven hybrid. 1:14:25.080 --> 1:14:28.040 Yeah yeah you heard that right, Yeah, I would you. 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:32.800 Both, Yeah, exactly right. Back in May, Porscha unveiled the 1:14:32.800 --> 1:14:35.120 first hybrid version of its most famous sports car, the 1:14:35.200 --> 1:14:38.280 nine to eleven. It is the Carrera GTS with a 1:14:38.439 --> 1:14:41.240 newly developed three point six leader six cylinder engine with 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:45.400 a single electrically driven turbocharger say that five times fast, 1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:49.439 and an in transmission electric motor that reduces lag times 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:52.479 to nil as the car sprints forward. I sound like 1:14:52.520 --> 1:14:53.520 I'm Hannah Elliot. 1:14:53.320 --> 1:14:55.160 I was going to say, reading her words, we know 1:14:55.280 --> 1:14:57.720 all that thanks to Hannah Elliott. It also comes with 1:14:57.760 --> 1:14:59.880 a whopping price tag of just about one hundred and 1:15:00.040 --> 1:15:04.120 sixty five thousand dollars, so not cheap, but it's a Porsche, 1:15:04.120 --> 1:15:06.599 so you wouldn't expect it to kind of be, you know, 1:15:06.680 --> 1:15:10.000 affordable to many people. And for those Porsche files worried 1:15:10.040 --> 1:15:12.600 about the electrification that could spell the end of the 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:15.880 nine to eleven, don't worry about it, so says Bloomberg 1:15:15.880 --> 1:15:18.920 News auto columnist Hannah Elliott, who recently took the car 1:15:18.960 --> 1:15:19.800 out for a spin. 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:22.360 There were a lot of nine to eleven lovers and 1:15:22.400 --> 1:15:26.559 porshapurists who were a very reticent about the idea of 1:15:27.000 --> 1:15:32.439 electrifying their beloved six cylinder engine. You know, Porsche made 1:15:32.479 --> 1:15:36.080 that engine famous in nineteen sixty three, and I myself 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:40.000 was hesitant. You know, you don't know what to expect. 1:15:40.200 --> 1:15:44.400 Porsche actually removed a turbo charger from this engine, and 1:15:44.439 --> 1:15:48.320 then it made the existing turbocharger larger and then added 1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:50.719 an electric motor. So there's a lot going on under 1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:53.160 the hood, and you know, we kind of didn't know 1:15:53.200 --> 1:15:55.000 what to expect. But I'm happy to report to you 1:15:55.200 --> 1:15:59.719 that the Carrera nine to eleven GTS hybrid is really, 1:16:00.680 --> 1:16:04.560 and honestly it was in a good way, very unremarkable. 1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:08.679 It's got about sixty horse power more than the previous version, 1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:11.040 and it's a little bit faster. But you know what, 1:16:11.680 --> 1:16:13.679 at the end of the day, you'd be hard pressed 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:16.400 as I was, to even tell any difference between a 1:16:16.479 --> 1:16:19.519 hybrid nine to eleven and the standard nine to eleven 1:16:19.520 --> 1:16:19.920 that we love. 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:23.360 Hey, Carol's fighting me because she wants she wants to 1:16:23.400 --> 1:16:25.960 ask another question. You know what, Carol, go ahead, No, 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:27.000 oh god, we just. 1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:28.679 This is what happens your voices a little. 1:16:28.920 --> 1:16:30.800 This is what happens when Hanna Elliott comes on. It's 1:16:30.800 --> 1:16:32.600 like we just we fight each other. We get to 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:33.959 talk to but go ahead. 1:16:33.720 --> 1:16:35.760 And ask another the pedal to the metal and how 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:38.160 did it feel? And where did you ride it? 1:16:38.720 --> 1:16:39.120 Drive it? 1:16:39.479 --> 1:16:43.439 Okay, So I drove it on a track in Spain, which, yes, 1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:46.200 it does sound very glamorous, and of course it was great. 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:48.760 But Spain is also a really great place to drive 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:51.800 cars right now because the weather's fabulous and you can 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.160 these automakers can get the tracks there for pretty cheap, 1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:57.840 so they just have journalists come out to these Spanish 1:16:57.880 --> 1:17:00.400 tracks and you spend the day driving around. 1:17:00.640 --> 1:17:03.200 Yeah, but Hannah, watch out for the olive trees. Okay, 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:04.479 well this. 1:17:05.200 --> 1:17:07.800 It's interesting that you say that, because this was a 1:17:07.880 --> 1:17:12.640 really interesting track. It's it had some sort of inclines, 1:17:12.680 --> 1:17:16.040 it had banking, it was over three miles long, so 1:17:16.080 --> 1:17:20.280 it was a really tricky track, and the car handles 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:21.720 it's so fabulous. 1:17:21.800 --> 1:17:21.960 You know. 1:17:22.040 --> 1:17:24.559 This is why we no one loved the nine to eleven, 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:29.519 and it's also why Porsche was so hesitant to do anything. 1:17:29.400 --> 1:17:30.320 To this car. 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:33.439 This is the crown jewel of the brand and it 1:17:33.600 --> 1:17:38.400 engenders such a fervid fan base that anything that would 1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:42.919 change the amazing handling, the amazing breaking, just the amazing 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:47.280 power delivery, it would It's kind of dangerous, you know. 1:17:47.360 --> 1:17:49.360 You think you don't want to change something if it's working, 1:17:50.000 --> 1:17:53.640 But I have to say, truly that from a driving perspective, 1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:59.240 this hybrid, new hybrid variant, it's great. It's you know, 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:02.080 Porsche didn't want I want to tell me how many 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:03.880 more miles per gallon we're going to get out of 1:18:03.920 --> 1:18:07.880 the car. I think it's pretty negligible. Really, Yeah, this 1:18:07.960 --> 1:18:10.879 is an interesting thing. You know, you make a hybrid 1:18:10.960 --> 1:18:14.280 in order to help meet CO two in emission standards, 1:18:14.320 --> 1:18:17.679 which is for sure true, but Porsche is also saying, look, 1:18:17.720 --> 1:18:20.240 we're actually getting a little bit more horsepower, a little 1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:23.519 bit more speed out of combining the electric motor and 1:18:23.560 --> 1:18:26.040 the turbocharger. So it's kind of a win win. 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:28.120 Yeah. 1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:31.640 I will say though, the biggest change for me, we're 1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:33.720 changes in the cabin and I don't know if you 1:18:33.760 --> 1:18:34.960 guys want to talk about that. 1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:38.639 Ye're not, but go there right, like it's so iconic, 1:18:38.720 --> 1:18:41.280 right you get inside a Porsche, right, the dios and 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:43.439 so and so forth, tell us what the experience was like, 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:45.480 because it sounds like that's where you were a little disappointed. 1:18:45.880 --> 1:18:49.080 So this is where I was really surprised. The car 1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:52.240 itself in terms of driving, it's very well within the 1:18:52.280 --> 1:18:54.680 Portue nine to eleven lineup. It's not the fastest but 1:18:54.680 --> 1:18:57.599 it's in the middle. It's in the middle inside though, 1:18:57.680 --> 1:19:00.360 this is really the first nine to eleven to have 1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:04.519 a button to start the car, rather than the sort 1:19:04.560 --> 1:19:07.160 of faux key fob that you go to turn on 1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:09.479 the left side, which is a really signature touch for 1:19:09.520 --> 1:19:11.639 a nine to eleven. Now they've put a button there, 1:19:12.360 --> 1:19:16.519 and Porsche has also removed all of the analog gauges. 1:19:16.560 --> 1:19:20.280 You know, Porsia has this signature five gauge set up 1:19:20.320 --> 1:19:23.240 behind the steering wheel with the techometer right in the middle. 1:19:23.640 --> 1:19:26.479 They've done away with that. Now it's screens, you've got 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:29.759 a push button start, and they also remove the back seat. 1:19:30.360 --> 1:19:34.559 Now that's now available as a no cost option. But 1:19:35.320 --> 1:19:37.719 people who really love the nine to eleven and spend 1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:40.000 a lot of time in that cabin, whether they're commuting 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.400 to work or driving it on the weekends, you're going 1:19:42.439 --> 1:19:45.160 to notice. I think the biggest change that you will 1:19:45.160 --> 1:19:46.639 notice is inside the cabin. 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:49.720 Does it feel like when you drive it that you're 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:50.719 driving a hybrid? 1:19:51.920 --> 1:19:52.000 No? 1:19:52.640 --> 1:19:53.439 And you know why. 1:19:54.160 --> 1:19:58.080 I First of all, there's no electric only range. You 1:19:58.120 --> 1:20:00.639 know how some plug in hybrids you can I've an 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:04.800 electric only mode for a few miles. This Caarra GTS 1:20:04.920 --> 1:20:07.240 doesn't have that. You don't even plug it into charge. 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:10.080 This is a mild hybrid, so all of the energy 1:20:10.280 --> 1:20:12.639 is being transferred under the hood. You're not input you're 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:16.080 not plugging in, and you're not driving in electric only mode. 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:19.799 So honestly, you will be pretty hard pressed to feel 1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:23.320 any difference in terms of ooh am, I driving a hybrid, 1:20:23.479 --> 1:20:26.120 other than maybe you could feel that it's a little 1:20:26.120 --> 1:20:29.599 bit faster if you're doing like if you're burning rubber 1:20:29.680 --> 1:20:31.960 from zero to sixty miles an hour, it is about 1:20:32.040 --> 1:20:35.000 point three seconds faster, so you'll feel it in that way. 1:20:35.240 --> 1:20:38.479 But just from a regular driving perspective, honestly, you're not 1:20:38.520 --> 1:20:39.799 going to feel any difference. 1:20:39.920 --> 1:20:41.920 Scale of one to ten, what do you give it? 1:20:42.800 --> 1:20:43.000 Oh? 1:20:43.040 --> 1:20:45.160 I give it eight eight. 1:20:45.280 --> 1:20:47.920 I like hybrids, Yeah, I think you know what I 1:20:48.040 --> 1:20:50.760 think hybrids. We used to think they were a bit 1:20:50.800 --> 1:20:54.880 of just a bridge technology while we all accelerated toward 1:20:54.960 --> 1:20:59.320 electric vehicles. But I have to say now, the idea 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:02.360 of some of these sports cars becoming hybridized where you 1:21:02.439 --> 1:21:05.040 kind of get the best of both worlds, it does 1:21:05.160 --> 1:21:08.640 make sense. And you know, as we're seeing EV sales 1:21:09.200 --> 1:21:13.280 sort of slow down a little bit. Obviously they're still growing, 1:21:13.320 --> 1:21:16.439 but just not as such at such a quick rate. 1:21:17.400 --> 1:21:20.479 The hybrids, to me are looking really interesting because, like 1:21:20.520 --> 1:21:22.760 I said, it does kind of combine the best of 1:21:22.800 --> 1:21:25.519 both worlds. You get the pure power and really quick 1:21:25.600 --> 1:21:29.480 acceleration of a electric battery, but you also get that tangible, 1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:32.360 really fun driving feeling of internal combustion. 1:21:33.080 --> 1:21:37.120 You contrast it with the actid Martins dvantage that you 1:21:37.200 --> 1:21:41.240 recently had on track as well. Why was this so different? 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:42.759 Three words? 1:21:43.120 --> 1:21:44.040 Four wheel drive? 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:45.679 That's why. 1:21:45.920 --> 1:21:48.920 I mean, it's just so much more predictable, and I'm 1:21:48.960 --> 1:21:52.479 the first to admit it makes me think I'm a 1:21:52.479 --> 1:21:54.640 better driver than I really am. The car is a 1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:55.479 lot more controlled. 1:21:56.240 --> 1:21:56.479 Wow. 1:21:56.600 --> 1:22:00.080 What I also love is you called it exuberant, go 1:22:00.080 --> 1:22:01.519 out of the gate. It sounds like you just had 1:22:01.600 --> 1:22:04.519 a blast driving it around, and it sounds like more 1:22:04.560 --> 1:22:07.240 to come. So good, so good, so good. 1:22:07.320 --> 1:22:08.600 It's a great way for us to wrap up on 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:09.200 our Friday. 1:22:09.479 --> 1:22:12.280 Hey, if you ever want us to come on one 1:22:12.320 --> 1:22:15.080 of these trips to Spain or like around the track, Yeah, 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:16.120 just just let us know. 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:18.840 Okay, I Hey, if you want to go on the 1:22:18.880 --> 1:22:20.960 next one, beat my guest I'll sit in the corner 1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:22.920 and drink some quart or something. 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:27.400 Okay, deal, done, done, Hanna Elliott, You well have a 1:22:27.400 --> 1:22:28.000 great weekend. 1:22:28.040 --> 1:22:30.080 She is auto column at the Bloomberg Pursuits. 1:22:30.120 --> 1:22:33.200 Check her out on Twitter, on x, on Bloomberg dot com, 1:22:33.240 --> 1:22:34.559 and of course, at the Bloomberg Tournaino. 1:22:35.920 --> 1:22:39.719 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. I'll ale Apple 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:43.519 and Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:46.800 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on 1:22:46.880 --> 1:22:50.240 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the 1:22:50.280 --> 1:22:53.240 Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every 1:22:53.280 --> 1:22:56.880 weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg journalone