1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Thank you Moe Raka for being here. Oh hold on, 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: oh a bigger name online. 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 2: Three. 4 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: My husband Alex is calling, hold on? What hey? 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: Hi? 6 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: How are you. 7 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: I? 8 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: I'm doing the podcast with mo Rocca. Say hi to moy. 9 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Hi Alex, good to talk. 10 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: Did you call when I was doing Kesha as well? 11 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: It's cold, perfect time. It is all right. I love you. 12 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: I'll call you back. Say bye to MOI I was 13 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: a T and T a sponsor. No, not at all. Hi, 14 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: it's Elvis. Thank you for listening to my podcast. This 15 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: is podcast number two. Hopefully there'll be three and four 16 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: and five and six. If you missed podcast one with Kesha, 17 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: roll back and listen to it. We talked about spaceships, 18 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: we talked about a ghosts and she played with a 19 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: dead man's skull. Today's gonna be a little different. This 20 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: is gonna be a little different podcast with someone I'm 21 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: fascinated with, Mo Raka. I've been witnessed to Morocca since 22 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: god back in the days. He was on MTV and 23 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: VH one in those remember the eighties documentaries and things 24 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: like that, And then I noticed Moroka on CBS Sunday Morning. 25 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: He also does a lot of work with CBS Television 26 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: and now he has his own podcast, his own podcast 27 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: called Mobituaries, which is fascinating for some reason it maybe 28 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: he'll explain in a few minutes. Growing up watching his 29 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: father become so exhilarated reading obituaries in the newspaper every day, 30 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: he in the beginning felt it odd, and then he 31 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: discovered there's a whole story to be told about people 32 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: who have left us, but their legacy lives. And he 33 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: goes to find those legacies and puts it in a 34 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: great Moroca storytelling way. And you're gonna hear that, I promise. 35 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: He's such a sweet guy. I'm fascinated by each and 36 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: everything he says. He's the smartest person I know, the 37 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: host of his very own, huge award winning podcast, Mobituaries. 38 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: Let's listen in to Morocca Moroka. Thank you for being here. 39 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: I always love to be with you. 40 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Elvis, thank you for having me our second guest on 41 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: my podcast. What's the name of my podcast? We have 42 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: a name, right, what's the name of it? 43 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 2: Thinking out loud, I'm torn about being second because, on 44 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: the one hand, I'm like, who was. 45 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: First, Kesha? 46 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: Kesha was first? Okay, and she's got a symbol in 47 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: her name. I don't have that, I mean, right, because 48 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: she's so Tollerci. 49 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: Well, we have to add a symbol. By the end 50 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: of this podcast, we'll have a symbol added to your name. 51 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: She little Moroccas. 52 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: Now Mo Raka has a podcast out called Mobituaries, and 53 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about this on our show before. I just 54 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: couldn't wait to get you back to go a little 55 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: deeper into this. 56 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: You were dying to have me back for this exactly. 57 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: Growing up fascinated with obituaries, and you got that from 58 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: your father, as I recall, right, tell the story. 59 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 2: Well, my father, that was his favorite section of the newspaper. 60 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: I grew up outside of Washington, d C. There were 61 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: two daily newspapers when I was little, the Washingtonton Posts 62 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: in the Washington Star. And he would say, oh boy, 63 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: the obituaries is my favorite section. And he would say 64 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: it like that because he was not gloomy at all. 65 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: And I think he liked the obituaries because a well 66 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: written obituary is a real ride. You can really get 67 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: lost in it. It can be really exhilarating, and I 68 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: think it's like a like a trailer for an Oscar 69 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: winning biopic. It has that kind of sweep, you know, 70 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: coming this fall, the trials, the tribulations, the ups, the downs, 71 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: you know. 72 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: And there's something to be said for the fact that 73 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: this person just passed away. So there's an energy there, yes, 74 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of family members and friends 75 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: and colleagues hopefully are grieving, so that person is still 76 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: somewhat a little alive when you read that obituary. 77 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: That's a great point. It's well, it's also right, it's 78 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: like a first draft of that person's history, because I 79 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: think that there I'm not sure that I've seen any 80 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: corrections issued for obituaries, unless so're for major figures. But 81 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: I do think that newspapers, even the New York Times, 82 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: get a lot of things wrong in these obituaries because 83 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: you're talking to overwrought, highly emotional relatives sometimes and you know, 84 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: there's only so much fact checking you can do because 85 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff there's not, you know, public 86 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: record for. 87 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, you go down the list of all of 88 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: the different episodes of mobituaries and it's just a wide 89 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: variety of people who were very famous, people you've never 90 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: heard of, and also concepts that have died or products 91 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: that faded away. In deciding how to come up with 92 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: these different facets of history to put on your Mobituaries podcast, 93 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: how did you decide, Okay, it should be beyond people, 94 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: it has to be things as well, like what was 95 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: your first your first thing that you had on mobituaries. 96 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: So I think that they're two sort of main criteria, 97 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 2: and I think you must appreciate this as well, that 98 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: it has to be interesting to me, because the audience 99 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: can sniff out if it's really not. They can tell 100 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: if you're faking it, especially right and when it's just 101 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: audio and you're just hearing, you're really focused on it, 102 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: So it has to really get me in the gut. 103 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: But I also think in everything there has to be 104 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: an element of surprise. So I think the surprise could 105 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 2: be that it's a seemingly silly subject like sitcom characterists 106 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: that have died, but then it ends up being surprisingly 107 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: not profound, but you know, a little more substantific. It's 108 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: more of sort of like, oh, that's interesting that creative 109 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: choice that Gary Marshall made on Happy Days to kill 110 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: off the oldest brother, Chuck Cunningham. Because the fonds is 111 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: becoming really popular, and they didn't need the older brother anymore, 112 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: because why would Richie ask his older brother for advice 113 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: on dating girls when he's got the Fonds living in 114 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 2: the garage out back. Or surprise, you know, sort of 115 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: between episodes within an episode, or you know, an episode 116 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: about the death of a kind of banana which has 117 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: a lot of serious stuff about it, but it's also 118 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: kind of fun. I end up singing, yes, we have 119 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: no bananas with Andre de Shields. But then the next episode, well, 120 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: one of the next episodes was really serious about a 121 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: dancer who was from the original cast of Cats who 122 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: died from AIDS, and I had a very personal connection 123 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: to Cats. So I think it's all about keeping people 124 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: a little bit off balance, surprising them because that they 125 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: know exactly what they're going to get. I don't think 126 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: that's interesting. 127 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: Well, another thing to think about here is, you know, 128 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: in our business, in broadcast, if do they still call 129 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: it broadcast under we call it broadcast anymore. 130 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: I'm a fan of broadcasting. 131 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: You I'm me too. Yeah, And you go back to 132 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: the There is a broadcaster genius, man Paul Harvey, right, 133 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: he used to have Paul Harvey. The rest of the 134 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: story where he would talk about without using names, this 135 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: person who was born in Oklahoma, who dated this woman. 136 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: They had to divorce each other, and he went on 137 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: to this other woman and the invented doctor Pepper. His 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: name was doctor Pepper. And that's the rest of the story. 139 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, he would take you to this story. Then 140 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: you're like, who is he talking about? And at the 141 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: end he would like, just am you never knew there 142 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: was a doctor Pepper. By the way, there was not 143 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: a doctor Pepper. It wasn't I don't think. 144 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: It's not not in the Waco area at all. You know, 145 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: maybe there was, but. 146 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: It was fascinating. Theater of the mind is what it was. 147 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: And I find obituaries it totally scratches that itch for me. 148 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: Well, I love that, and I'm always i mean talking 149 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: about it just a scratch. I mean that's how I 150 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: look at it too, sort of. You know. Sometimes it's 151 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: a subject that I actually want to spend my time 152 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: learning about. So I think, well, I want to do 153 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: an episode on this because I know nothing about it 154 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: and I've always wanted to and now it's a good 155 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: time to learn. But can I just ask you about 156 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: you know, when we were talking about the word broadcasting. Yes, 157 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: a while to really sort of think about the word itself, that, 158 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: you know, broadcasting as opposed to narrow casting because the 159 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: world is so adomized now. Everything is so split up, 160 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 2: like you know, everyone's watching something different, listening to something different. 161 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: There are no water cooler conversations in the way there. 162 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: Used to be. 163 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: But you're a broadcaster, right, so you can't like, is it? 164 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: Don't you do? You love? I know I do the 165 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: creative challenge of trying to get as many people into 166 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: the tent as possible. 167 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, yeah. You know, we know that we have 168 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: this massive pool to go swimming in, right, but we 169 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: know that if we talk about this or that, or 170 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: we forget to talk about that or this, the pool 171 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: decreases because they lose interest. Right, So we find it 172 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: a challenge every day to try to remain as broad 173 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: as possible, and so we can scoop Actually, yeah, scoop 174 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: the uh what was the word I heard it from 175 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: the other day, scoop the spectrum. It is what it is. 176 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: We want to get as many people who listen without 177 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: offending too many people. It's a weird balance, it's. 178 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: A really weird balance, but it's also a really cool 179 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: creative challenge of how you keep everyone in without it 180 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: just becoming bland, because then no one will be interested. 181 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: You know, I have this roommate I had in college. 182 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: He's super genius or in Eisenberg, he's so smart, and 183 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: he went and he's an English professor now you see Irvine, 184 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: And we had this conversation and he said, you know, 185 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: I could be teaching little seminars about super specific topics, 186 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: but he loves teaching these broad based English literature courses 187 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: where there are students that might be science majors, math majors, 188 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: and this may be the last English course they ever take. 189 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: But it's his job to keep them all in the 190 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 2: tent and keep them all interested. It's just a different 191 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: challenge than if you have an audience that comes in 192 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: that already knows they're interested in exactly what you're doing. Anyway, 193 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: I just love, I love the challenge of keeping as 194 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: many people in as possible. 195 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: Go to any high school in America and you'll see that, 196 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: just like the college system, they have curriculum that is 197 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: very specific, very very narrow and deep. When I went 198 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: to high school, it was math, it was English, it 199 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: was science. Now they break down science into fifteen different genres. 200 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: You can choose which science you want to study. So 201 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: I think, in my opinion, it's good to have a 202 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: mixture of both. 203 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely you want to go, yes, exactly, between electives and 204 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: main courses, between like cheerios, and then the super specific 205 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: serial like that's in that variety pack, like the really 206 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: really one that's super specific. 207 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of cereals, he's not here. Scotty b who 208 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: sits in the studio that he has a podcast called 209 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: serial Killers where he and Andrew, who you met on 210 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: the way up. They review new cereals, breakfast cereals, and 211 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: they bring old school cereals out of the off the 212 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: shelves and it's just a podcast about cereals. 213 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: What's the latest hot pick? 214 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: Well, no, I tasted one today. It's a cereal from 215 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: Mexico called It's Churros and it taste like little churros. 216 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: I love Mexican coke as in Coca Cola because it's 217 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: less sweet, it's a little milder. So I hope that 218 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: this Mexican chudral cereal is churro cereal. 219 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: It's it's hard to say that. 220 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little bit hard to say that. I'm 221 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 2: hoping that it's the American version of it. They it 222 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: would there'd be way too much sugar, it would be 223 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: too sweet. 224 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: It wasn't too sweet. I kind of liked it. It 225 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: is like I said, it is from Mexico. Yeah, imported cereal. 226 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: But the point of this is deep and narrow. Is 227 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: this topic on this podcast that actually has a lot 228 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: of fans? 229 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: Oh my god, and I love that in this they 230 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: should have called this episode breakfast bad certain anyway, why 231 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: not cereal coming from Mexico? Sorry, I'm with you, which 232 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: is not appropriate. It's so appropriate Columbian, so I can say. 233 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: This is handed to me. Doctor Charles Taylor Pepper was 234 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: born December eighteen thirty from Big Spring, Virginia. So there 235 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: was a doctor Pepper. How he's mixed into the story 236 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: and the legacy, I don't know. Maybe that should Doctor 237 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: Pepper is still around, so it does not qualify for 238 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: a obituary podcast. 239 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder what his specialty was this, doctor Papper? 240 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: Do we know surgeon? He was a surgeon? Okay, all right, 241 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: I'm a Pepper, Y're a Pepper work, So I'm going 242 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: to there was another episode you had the station wagon. 243 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: Uh huh, yes, yeah, the station wagon is well, I 244 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: would say that's that's another major factor for me. And 245 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: what I decide what topic I want to do is 246 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: you know, we talked about scratching an inch, a feeling 247 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: in your gut. It's a kind of warmth and the 248 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: station wagon, and I think I'm pretty good at identifying 249 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: this a subject a person that will make people go 250 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: all and feel warm like John Denver was that way. 251 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: I think I think it worked in doing a mobituary 252 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: about him. But the station wagon I think gets people 253 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: in the same way because I think we associate it 254 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: with larger families, with growing up and with the time 255 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: where there were no safety precautions. None would be in 256 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: the way way back, darting around like pinballs. 257 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: Right, well, dad's smoking a cigarette in the front, right exactly, 258 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: We're all gonna die, yes, yes. 259 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: Exactly, and those wide turns and just being thrown. So 260 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: I decide against the walls, which I loved, especially after 261 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: a pizza party. 262 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Yes, we had Spunky the dog in the back of 263 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: our station wagon. Did you really going through the mountains 264 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: of New Mexico toward Colorado? Spunky was in the back 265 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: then there was the luggage in that back square area. 266 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: And then Travis mcmhanon and I were in the back 267 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: seat and day front. I heard Spunky in the back 268 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: of the station wagon moaning and groaning, like what what 269 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: do we do? We gotta let Spunky out. 270 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: Sorry, were you in the way back or were you 271 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 2: in the back sheet? 272 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: No, I was in the back seat. Then comes the 273 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: luggage and Spunky was in the way back. 274 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: The back seat was really boring. I'm surprised that you 275 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: weren't in the way back. 276 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: It's just the way it worked. And for some reason 277 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: Spunky ended up in the way back. We could even 278 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: touch Spunky because those were like the limousines at the time. 279 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: They were, you know, fifty feet long. So anyway, Spunky 280 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: was making noises. I kept saying, Dad, you gotta gotta 281 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: pull over. He didn't, and Spunky exploded in the back 282 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: of our station wagon. She didn't die, no, yeah, diarrhea 283 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: thing and it hit the back of my head, the 284 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: back of Travis McMahon said, the back of my mom's 285 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: perfectly quaffed hair, in the back of my dad, and 286 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: all the way up to the front of the car. 287 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: That's my station wagon story. We all have one. If 288 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: you're old enough, you have a station Wagon story. But 289 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: to say goodbye and offer it its own obituary, I 290 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: think it's excellent job. 291 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: I love that people really responded to the number of 292 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: the memories, the depth of people's memories, and their attachment 293 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: to the station Wagon. I'm surprised it hasn't made a comeback, 294 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: and under a different name it will. 295 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: So I look at other characters that you've you've done, 296 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: like Laura Brannigan, not a character but an artist. 297 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: I loved doing Laura Brannigan a obituary for her. We're 298 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: very proud of that one because well, one of the 299 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: things that was interesting and frankly eerie about it is 300 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: that year, I guess twenty nineteen, the Saint Louis Blues 301 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: hockey team was on this kind of miraculous winning streak. 302 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 2: They went from last in the NHL and they would 303 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: end up winning the Stanley Cup for the first time 304 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: in their fifty year history, going from last place to 305 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: winning the whole thing after they adopted Gloria as their 306 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: theme song. But the reason I wanted to do this 307 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: was I loved that song growing up, like a lot 308 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: of people, but I noticed in the press coverage about 309 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: the Saint Louis Blues, about the hockey team, that there 310 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: were fans that were asking for Laura Brannigan to show 311 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: up and sing the song. They didn't realize she died, 312 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: And I thought, this is an example of someone who 313 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: had been a huge deal at one point and then died, 314 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: and she died really young, and she just sort of 315 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: faded for memory right away, I mean. And so there 316 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: definitely was space to do this because people hadn't thought 317 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: of her in a long time. They'd forgotten that she died, 318 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: they ever knew she died, but they still loved that song. 319 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: So it was a perfect kind of combination of factors there. 320 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: So when you go to select your victims, when you 321 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: go to select your either personalities or historical figures or items, 322 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: what is the checklist you go down? 323 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: So I think the checklist is it helps very much 324 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: if I have a personal connection to it or a 325 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: personal ane personal desire to know more so, whether it's 326 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: because I have some history with the subject, or there's 327 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: something that I really have always wanted to know and 328 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: it grabs me on an emotional level. I think that 329 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: there is some sort of element of surprise there, and 330 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: I think it also helps and you can do this 331 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: with any subject if there's a way to move beyond 332 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: that person at different points in the episode to talk 333 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: about kind of the larger issues or that person's Like 334 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 2: with Benedict Arnold, the whole idea was he had been 335 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: a hero before he was a trader, and so this 336 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: was an opportunity at different points in the episode to 337 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 2: spend a couple of moments talking about other people that 338 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: were heroic before they were traders, Like Felipe Petin had 339 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 2: been this hero in World War One in France and 340 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: then he was a Nazi collaborator during World War Two. 341 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: He went from being you idolized in a great here 342 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 2: road to being a scoundrel. Peanuts have went from being 343 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: a favored snack to getting kicked out of schools and 344 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: off of airplanes like the actual snack. So they went 345 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: sort of from hero to villain. And I'm not judging 346 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 2: there's a good reason that people that you know, there 347 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: are peanut allergies. Satan before Satan was cast out into hell, 348 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: was you know, Lucifer was you know, was he was 349 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 2: like besties with God. So anyway, so there was it was, 350 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: so it was a good opportunity to kind of look 351 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: at So so that's that's the fun of doing a 352 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: longer form podcast. 353 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: Have you ever been digging into the meat and potatoes 354 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: of a person and you find yourself emotionally, emotionally stabbed? Like, 355 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: oh my god? Have you ever have you ever done 356 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: a obituary about someone and you actually became emotional over it? 357 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good Yeah, I hit a nerve for you. Yeah, 358 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: oh boy. I think the Laura Anagan was that way 359 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: because I think we found the producer, Alison Byrne, found 360 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: a recording, a phone recording of her having a conversation 361 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: with someone that had become a friend of hers who 362 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: was running her fan club, I think, and and Laura 363 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: basically was she was talking about the Titanic theme song 364 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: and how Selene Dionne had obviously sung it to phenomenal success, 365 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: and Laura was basically saying, Ah, if only I'd had 366 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 2: a chance to sing that, and I could you know that? 367 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 2: To me, I found that very poignant, like the idea 368 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: of I just want the chance to show what I 369 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: can do. And I've certainly felt like that. I think 370 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: I felt like that at times so I found that 371 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: very sympathetic. 372 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, you gotta be careful assuming someone's alive when 373 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: they're not. I mean, if you haven't heard their name 374 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: tossed around for a while, it's good to check before you. 375 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: For instance, we were on our show talking about actor 376 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: Avagoda Ada used to be on Barney Miller Fish and 377 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: he no offense and he almost looked like he was 378 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: dead when he was alive. It's just the way he looked. 379 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: He's had the baggy eyes whatever. 380 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: And we worked at CBS. I take no offense. 381 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: Okay, whoops. So I assumed he had passed away and 382 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: we were talking about, oh, he was a character fish 383 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: and then Barney Miller a great, great actor, great character 384 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: actor or whatever, and uh, I basically pronounced him dead 385 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: on our show and we moved on. That afternoon, I 386 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: went to Barnes and Noble, the one that used to 387 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: be up here, Lincoln, Lincoln, cetera. He was in the 388 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: he was there. He was alive. A Vagoda was alive, 389 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: and we all assumed he was dead. And obviously, thank 390 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: god our show wasn't. Wasn't his cup of tea? Can 391 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: you imagine waking up and hearing you're dead and crazy. 392 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think, you know, there's a story that 393 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true that Alfred Nobel, the 394 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: guy for whom the Nobel Prize is named, that his 395 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 2: death was misreported, and the first line basically said Alfred 396 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: Nobel the inventor. I'm gonna get this wrong, but I 397 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: think it was the inventor of dynamite, because he made 398 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 2: his fortune and explosives, and he was so appalled that 399 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,239 Speaker 2: that was his legacy, that he wasn't dead that he 400 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: then endowed the Nobel Peace Prize and prizes because as 401 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 2: a way of saying like, oh my gosh, like this 402 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: is not what I want my life to be, kind 403 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: of like an Ebenezer Scrooge type thing seeing the future 404 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 2: and going Okay, I've got to change this. 405 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: Do you ever go look, do you ever choose personalities 406 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: from history that very extremely popular? Do you ever go 407 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: because you found oh we just found out something about 408 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: Joan Crawford that no one knows. Wait till we talk 409 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: about this in an Hermo bit. 410 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, first of all, I think it's important to 411 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 2: keep people in, to throw in a couple of really 412 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: big names, and it's interesting I don't do it thinking, Okay, 413 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: we're going to do it because we because we have 414 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: we have this thing that no one knows. We didn't 415 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: with John Denver, we actually didn't have something that no 416 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 2: one knew. But I also do I'm going to sound 417 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: really pretentious here, but that the son Thai musical Sunday 418 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: in the Park with George there's this line, everything you do, 419 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: let it come from you, then it will be new. 420 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: And I really do believe that. 421 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: I love that. 422 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: Say it again, everything you do, let it come from you, 423 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: then it will be new. So don't go, uh, it's 424 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: already been done. Somebody else did it. Well, no, you 425 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: didn't do it, So if you do it, it will 426 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 2: be different. Now I'm not saying remember that like Hollywood, 427 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 2: lord knows. Like remember there was that year where there 428 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 2: was like four different movies about asteroids, thing more than 429 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 2: five about volcanoes. I'm not sure that everyone doing their 430 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: own volcano movie was in fact, you know, bringing something 431 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: new to it. But but I think in this kind 432 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 2: of a medium and podcasts, where you're not working with 433 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: an army of people, you know, it's a lot of work, 434 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: but it's also gonna end up being more personal. And 435 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: and uh so, yeah, so I don't. I don't. I 436 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: don't feel the pressure that, Okay, we can't do this 437 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: person because this person is so well known, and the 438 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: only way to do it is if we have you know, 439 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: some you know, hidden tape that reveals that they had 440 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: a secret life. I don't think that's true. But I 441 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 2: think the more you get into it, you'll you'll find 442 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: something you know. And I do think it's important to 443 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 2: have some big games. 444 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: So if I rolled through a New York Times this 445 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: Sunday to the obituary column or they some of them 446 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: are just short blurbs. They just have name, address, phone 447 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: number or whatever. I mean, just like the bare minimum. 448 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: And some of them are actually written. I mean, they 449 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: have editorial staff that will write. 450 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: They have great writer. 451 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: Do you read New York Times obituaries every week? 452 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 2: I don't read them as religiously as I probably should. 453 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: So I'll scroll through sometimes and then I'll select a 454 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: few to read. I should read them more, probably, And 455 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: I do know that the writers there, I know a 456 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: few of them that they have a surprising amount of 457 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: leeway because I mean, there's so many people dying all 458 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 2: the time that they can't do full out articles for 459 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: each one, and so the writers can go to the 460 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: editor and say, you know, this person died, and it 461 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: doesn't have to be this person died yesterday. It can 462 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 2: be this person died a month ago, and I really 463 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: want to do something on one of my friends who's 464 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: a writer over there. His first obituary was on the 465 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: actor who played doctor Bombay on Bewitched. 466 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: Oh my god, do you remember his name? 467 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of the actor. But this 468 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: writer said, you know, I want to do this, and 469 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: it was published, like I think, like more than a 470 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: month after that actor died, you know, which is fine, 471 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: But so listen, it's a very popular section. It used 472 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: to be fun intended a real graveyard. I mean, like 473 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 2: you did not want to be an obituary writer. It's 474 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: where you were put out to pasture. Now a lot 475 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 2: of journalists, print journalists, you know, really want to work 476 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: on that section because it's like you're working for every 477 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: section in the newspaper. You're working for business, you're working 478 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: for sports, you're working for entertainment. Because it depends on 479 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: who dies. 480 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: And of course it goes back obviously I'm making assumptions here. 481 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: It goes back to your love of history. 482 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 2: It totally does because it's also I think I think 483 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: you know Don Hewitt, who created sixty Minutes. I can't 484 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 2: remember the exact quote, but I think he said, every 485 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: story has to be about someone. You don't do a 486 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: story about a topic. Now do as you pointed out, 487 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: Tod do the station Wagon. But I look at the 488 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: station Wagon as a character, almost like as a person. 489 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 2: So an obituary is traditionally about a person, and so 490 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 2: it's a great history lesson on that person and all 491 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: the things that are attached to it. 492 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: I think, do you enjoy interviewing people? 493 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: Yes, I do. There are times in the middle of 494 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: an interview I'm going right to the negative where I 495 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: kind of go where I think and I hope you 496 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 2: don't feel I know, I hope you don't feel that 497 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 2: way right now. But there are times in interviews where 498 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: I think, my god, this is work. I think I 499 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: do think that. 500 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: But then you just got to like blame them. It's 501 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: not your fault. You're brilliant, and exactly remind them of that. 502 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: I make sure to always do that. But but it 503 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: is worth it. 504 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 2: I mean, some of my favorite pieces I've done and 505 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: I'm not being quite here. I really can't think of 506 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: specific examples they have turned out well, and I thought, 507 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, that's that's pretty surprise. Seeing piece in 508 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: the middle of that interview, I wanted to just just 509 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: drown myself. I mean, it was so tough. Yeah, I think. 510 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, it's great if you really connect with somebody, right. 511 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: If you have a personal interest in what they're all about. 512 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: And this is why, this is why I love your interviews, mo. 513 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: I always feel the best interviewers are the ones who 514 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: inject themselves into the interview. And if you said something 515 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: it reminds me of a story about when I was 516 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: a kid with a station wagon, I feel like, well, okay, 517 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: there's a conversation here. Rather than me just asking questions, 518 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: you give me a yes, no answers. You inject yourself 519 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: into interviews with a very very very brilliant wit about you, 520 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: and you definitely always come across as seeming genuinely interested 521 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: in what they're saying. And there's a beauty to that. 522 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's something you study or learn, it's 523 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: something you just have or you don't. 524 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I think that one 525 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: of the things that has served me well that I 526 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 2: sort of figured out along the way, and that you 527 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 2: certainly know is is I think the power of sort 528 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 2: of disarming someone. So you know that, especially with actors 529 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 2: when they entertainers, when they come into an interview and 530 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: they either had the story ready to go, or the 531 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: pitch ready to go, or the persona ready to go. 532 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: Just pricking it a little bit. And I don't mean 533 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: taking the piss out of somebody that's not other people 534 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: are really great at that. That's not my style, but 535 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 2: just kind of disarming them a little bit. 536 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. 537 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: I mean like when the actress Eva Marie Saint, who's 538 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: in two of the greatest movies ever made, on the 539 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: Waterfront and north By Northwest, somebody had said, oh, she's 540 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 2: not a great interview. I hate even saying that because 541 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: she's such a great woman and I still want to 542 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: do her. And I noticed that she was born on 543 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 2: July fourth, and I thought, oh, that's kind of fun. 544 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: And so the first thing I said to her is 545 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: what was it like having a July fourth birthday growing up? 546 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: And then she was so surprised and that and she 547 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: went and she lit up, and she said, it was wonderful. 548 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: When I was a little girl, my father told me 549 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: that the fireworks were for me, and she immediately we 550 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: were off to the races. Like she she wasn't she 551 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: wasn't thinking, Okay, I'm gonna have to trot out the 552 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 2: Hitchcock story for north By Northwest, the Brando story for 553 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: on the Waterfront, and so it was just this is 554 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 2: going to be loose and we're just having a conversation. 555 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, which leads me to this. 556 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: You know, I'm speaking in paragraphs, which I don't like 557 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: when I'm in conversations with somebody. So I just want 558 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: to I want to sort of tell you right now that. 559 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: I was making in paragraphs. You know. 560 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: It's interesting. 561 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: I was. 562 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: I was with a friend the other day. There were 563 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: a group of us and I like this person, this 564 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: theirfle but I was like, this person's really irritating me. 565 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: And then the other friend later said, oh, it's it's 566 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: because he doesn't understand how to have a conversation where 567 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: it's like one line, one line, one line, one line. 568 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 2: He only knows how to speak in paragraphs. And I said, yeah, 569 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: that was what was driving me crazy. But we're in 570 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: an interview here. So paragraphs are okay. 571 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: Well, I could see how you know, there are different 572 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: types of conversations. One is like a tennis match where 573 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: you rally your ball, my bile, you're all libel. But 574 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: it's okay to have a beginning, of middle and an 575 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: end to a thought. I think it's a story. You 576 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: are a storyteller, and that's that's part of your curse. 577 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: Yes, but perhaps and look if we were at a 578 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: coffee right now and I was telling you a story, 579 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: or you were telling me a story hopefully as well, 580 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: then we could be speaking in paragraphs. 581 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: But what if. 582 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: Every time I asked you something and then you answered, 583 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: or I answered, You asked me something, I answered, and 584 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: there was a story attached to it, with a name 585 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: and an anecdote. I mean, you'd want to kill yourself. 586 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: Not at all are people who do that? And it's 587 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 2: really annoying, like, oh, this coffee is great, Oh yeah, 588 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 2: this coffee is good. When I was in Costa Rica 589 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine, I had coffee and it was 590 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 2: a rappic God that was a really really interesting blah 591 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 2: blah blah, And then you just want to say, why 592 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 2: did I even mention the coffee. 593 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: Well, so do you think that's a do you think 594 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: that's a fault? I mean a faulty, a fault. 595 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: And I hate to come here and be criticizing people anonymously. 596 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: I just give me a list of names of people 597 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: who do this. Go to out them right now out there. 598 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: I want to give their phone numbers so that you 599 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: can text them and say stop speaking in paragraphs and 600 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: having an entire history and anecdote, you know, attached to everything. 601 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: It is eight thirty in the morning, we're having coffee, 602 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 2: just catching up. 603 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: But I'll give you a good example of where there's 604 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: before I forget because I'm brain dead. Moving from the 605 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: BlackBerry to the iPhone. On the BlackBerry, which had the 606 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: quirity keyboard and you can actually feel the button pushing down, 607 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: I would write paragraphs. When I got the iPhone, it 608 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: was lol, it was interesting. So I easier. 609 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: It's easier to take. 610 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: I know, but I missed that BlackBerry feeling. I miss 611 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: being able to emote, I miss being able to. 612 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: Expand. Okay, that's fine. I mean I just remember when 613 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 2: I first moved to New York and I was auditioning 614 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: for musical theater and there was a vocal coach, and 615 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: she was really sought after. She was very very good 616 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 2: named Annie Lebau, and I had to come up with 617 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: I was auditioning for character roles, like wacky second banana roles. 618 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 2: And I started singing from a song, a song from 619 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: that Bud Frump from How to Succeed in Business with 620 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: that really trying saying, and I was doing it super charactery, 621 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: really laying it on thick. And she stopped playing the 622 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 2: piano and she whipped her head around towards me, and 623 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: she said, be easy to take, and it's bad into 624 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: my memory. 625 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: That's the best advice ever. 626 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: And she said, easy to take. People will get it. 627 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: They're gonna get it. You don't have to cram it 628 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: down their throats anyway. I'm just thinking about that. 629 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: No, it's like we need to give people a little 630 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: more credit. 631 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: Yes, the audience will get it. Like like I'm playing 632 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 2: a nerd. Well, okay, we get it. You're a nerd. 633 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: You have a nerd essence. I'm talking about myself right here. 634 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 2: Don't need to like like really like like just lay 635 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 2: it on thick. And so I don't know, I mean 636 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 2: I think like and this anyway, I guess. I guess 637 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 2: in the podcast, I'm trying. Maybe it's an age thing also, 638 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: just trying to it's hard work and all that, but 639 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: like letting the audience come to you. 640 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: See. For instance, you and I are from but we're 641 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: about the same age. I'm a little older probably, Okay, yeah, yeah, 642 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: So when you mentioned doctor Bombay on Bewitch, I'm thinking automatically, Okay, 643 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: who in our audience has no frigging clue who that 644 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: is calling doctor Bombay? How old are you? There's someone 645 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: here in the studio thirty three, thirty three do you 646 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: know who doctor Bombay is? From Bewitch? They don't get it. 647 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: It's okay, doctor Bombay. 648 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: And it was a really it actually was. It was 649 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: a really minor character. And I, frankly, I don't really remember. 650 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: And I watched it all the time. I remember, I 651 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 2: watched it and reruns all the time. I don't remember. 652 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: I remember. And Dora and I used to confuse, and 653 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: Dora with Clara I would get confused. Yeah, and Clara 654 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: and Clara I confuse And uh, and what's his name? 655 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 2: Who we all love? Who apparently was an impossible person 656 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 2: to deal with? Derwood Dagwood, No no, no, no, no. 657 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: Paul Land, Yeah, yeah, did you read his biography? You 658 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 2: got to read that? 659 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: Is it? 660 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: Was it a memoir or is it it was? 661 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: I think it was more biographical because it was it was. 662 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: It was definitely they're telling the to you on pauland 663 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,479 Speaker 1: it was kind of funny. 664 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting people like Paul and Lynn 665 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 2: and Charles Nelson Riley and I've read his two Yeah, 666 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: Charles Nelson Riley. Well, Charles Nelson Riley, I think was 667 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 2: had a much more. I mean, you know, I think 668 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: pauland it was his his end was very, very sad, 669 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: but you know, I think Charles Nelson Riley managed to 670 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: and they both had great careers. 671 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, well ended that. But I have to go back 672 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: to a well, I have to go back to follow 673 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: up on a question I asked you earlier. I asked 674 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: you about interviews. Yeah, do you enjoy doing interviews? My 675 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: point is in obituaries, you're basically interviewing someone who's dead. 676 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: I think part of it, I feel like you're getting 677 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: you go out and get the answers that you feel 678 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: they would give you if you were speaking with them. 679 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 2: You know, I had not thought of that and I 680 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: really will take that as a great compliment, and I 681 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 2: really appreciate it because I'd never thought of that, but 682 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: giving them a chance to tell their story, and you know, 683 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 2: I've only thought about it in very tangential ways, Like 684 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 2: I did think, without sounding too pleased with myself, that 685 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 2: boy John Denver would like this. I think he'd be 686 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 2: And it wasn't. We didn't canonize him. We didn't canonize him. 687 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 2: We talked about his own frustration with not being taken seriously, 688 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 2: his great disappointment, like his devastation at not being asked 689 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: to be part of We Are the World when he 690 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: had been, you know, a celebrity who was one of 691 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 2: the first to really put world hunger kind of on 692 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 2: the map, as as you know, the first celebrity to 693 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 2: do that and then was only a few years later, 694 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: was considered too out of it to passe to be 695 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: asked to be part of this song that had forty 696 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 2: different singers. They could have made space for him, so 697 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 2: all that we included, but I do think that he 698 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 2: would say thank you for for you know, sticking up 699 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: for me, or at least telling my story. 700 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: I love it. Podcasts. There's billions of them. The one 701 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: I insist you listen to his obituaries. Thank you, Thank 702 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: you for all you give us, because it goes way 703 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: beyond mobituaries. Thank you for being here, Morocca, thank you, 704 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. I'm honored to have you here. 705 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: My second podcast with Melrocco. That was fabulous. Make sure 706 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: you subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening to Thinking 707 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: out Loud. By the way, who came up with that name? 708 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: Is that the name of my book? What's my idea 709 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: to call it? Thinking out Loud? But I'm taking credit 710 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: for it. Until next time, Thank you for listening, Feel 711 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,919 Speaker 1: free on your own think out Loud. Thinking out Loud 712 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: is hosted by me Elvis Duran. The podcast is produced 713 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers are Andrew mcglsi 714 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 1: and Katrina Norvel. Special thanks to David Katz, Michael Kindheart, 715 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: and Caitlin Madore. Thinking out Loud is part of the 716 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeartRadio. For more, rate review 717 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: and subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode, 718 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Elvis Durant.