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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Hello everyone, It's me James today and I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by three guests or members of the Southeast Alaska Indigenous

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Speaker 2: trans Boundary Commission. What we're talking about today is accepting

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Speaker 2: indigenous leadership on issues of climate change and issues of

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Speaker 2: more broadly ecological damage. And specifically we're discussing an emergency

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Speaker 2: declaration that they recently released about the state of the

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Speaker 2: Pacific salmon population. If I'm not mistaken, so I'm going

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Speaker 2: to ask each of them to introduce themselves. If you

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Speaker 2: could give us your name and any relevant affiliations that

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Speaker 2: you think listeners should know, that would be one.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 4: My name is Kirby Muldeau. My ancestral name is Hopwellasa.

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Speaker 4: I am from the jimsand people in what is now

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Speaker 4: known as Northwest British Columbia, Canada. My mother is Jim Shann,

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Speaker 4: my father is Gigxan, and I am from wilp we Get,

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Speaker 4: which is the house of the Night Drummer from the

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Speaker 4: Fireweed Plan. I am also an independent consultant and contractor

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Speaker 4: and I look forward to our discussion today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 6: I am Louis Wagner Junior from Metlakatla, Alaska, and I'm

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Speaker 6: Cake Woody of the Brown Bear Plan from Cape Fox,

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Speaker 6: sanw Kun.

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Speaker 5: And I have.

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Speaker 6: Lived in Metla Catla my whole life of seventy five years.

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Speaker 6: And we're connected to the Unuch River through my grandmother

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Speaker 6: and she was born at Cape Fox. And we've been

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Speaker 6: on the Unich River ever since I was big enough

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Speaker 6: to go with my older brother and so I've been

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Speaker 6: up there since like nineteen sixty wow. And my brothers

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Speaker 6: was up to close to twenty years before that. So,

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Speaker 6: but our family has always been on the Unich River

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Speaker 6: to harvest. Had the fish camp up there and and

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Speaker 6: we'd fish the uligans, bring the uligans home to the

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Speaker 6: to the people, and the catch can Saxsmon Metal Catline.

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Speaker 6: Then people would send them out to the west coast,

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Speaker 6: so we're very connected. We go up to the Unich

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Speaker 6: in the spring for ooligan and the fall for hunting.

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Speaker 6: Now they used to do the salmon up on the

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Speaker 6: river with the fish camp. I served on our community

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Speaker 6: council for from two thousand and two, but I think

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Speaker 6: twenty fifteen in there, and now i'm their tribal rights

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Speaker 6: representative for the community and I report back to our

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Speaker 6: council after each of our meetings.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much. And Guy, would you like to

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Speaker 2: induce yourself.

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Speaker 7: Yes, my name is Guy Archibald. I'm the executive director

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Speaker 7: of the Southeast Alaska Indigenous trans Boundary Commission. We were

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Speaker 7: formed about nine years ago by a commission of fifteen

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Speaker 7: sovereign tribes in Southeast Alaska reacting to you know, a

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Speaker 7: huge amount of mind development and further potential mind development

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Speaker 7: going on in the transound watersheds that drain from British

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Speaker 7: Columbia to Alaska. I used to work at the mines.

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Speaker 7: I'm an environmental chemist by trade. I helped tribes monitor

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Speaker 7: their own environments and their food security through science. And yeah,

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Speaker 7: I'm looking forward to this discussion as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fantastic set for all of you, Thank

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Speaker 2: you very much. So I think we should begin because

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Speaker 2: maybe people may have missed the extent and the severity

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Speaker 2: of the emergency with salmon populations and so preps. We

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Speaker 2: could start up by explaining like how it was. It

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Speaker 2: seems like Louis, you have a lot of experience there,

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Speaker 2: and then what has caused things to be at a

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Speaker 2: situation they're at now. Would that be a good way

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Speaker 2: to go about it.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that would be a good way.

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Speaker 6: Where we are at now on the salmon is that

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Speaker 6: Bruce Jack Mine started on the river and none of

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Speaker 6: us knew about it until way late summers around the

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Speaker 6: mid nineties, nineteen nineties and by two thousand, especially in

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Speaker 6: the spring when we'd be up there, that oligans were

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Speaker 6: starting to disappear, and then then the fall moose hunting,

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Speaker 6: the salmon were disappearing, and there's a lot less bears

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Speaker 6: in moose now where the river along the river bank

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Speaker 6: would be full of the parts of the fish that

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Speaker 6: bears didn't eat, there would be so many bears in

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Speaker 6: fish and now you don't smell any of that.

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Speaker 5: But and it's really affected the king salmon.

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Speaker 6: They completely disappeared for at least six years that my

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Speaker 6: son and I noticed they spawn up on the river there,

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Speaker 6: and as we always pay attention, we check on the

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Speaker 6: main spawning stream of Kingsbury where they spawn. And the

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Speaker 6: last three years we've been starting to see some come back,

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Speaker 6: and that bruce jack mine which fawned out later. They

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Speaker 6: were putting their tailings into a lake up on the

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Speaker 6: mountain there, and then you know, as they filled it

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Speaker 6: up and the rain filled it up, the overflow came

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Speaker 6: down into the river. And the river is so shallow,

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Speaker 6: it's only a few inches deep, and it's it's not

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Speaker 6: very wide. It's it's the smallest river out of the

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Speaker 6: Stakeen and the Takou there, and so any pollution in

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Speaker 6: that river will completely kill it off. The salmon runs

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Speaker 6: their way down from what we've seen through the years.

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Speaker 6: But you know, it's also the wildlife that's disappearing with it, because.

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Speaker 5: There's the feet isn't there.

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Speaker 6: There's not the amount of seagulls, a lot less seals

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Speaker 6: and sea lions.

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Speaker 5: It's effecting on the food chain everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I spent a little bit of time in

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Speaker 2: You're part of the world, just packcrafting and hiking and things,

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Speaker 2: and certainly it's a it's a very beautiful place, but

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Speaker 2: it's a very like a fragile one too. As you've

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Speaker 2: explained that these mines can very quickly have this effect

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Speaker 2: that cascades at the ecosystem. Could you explain a little

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Speaker 2: bit of the role that salmon play not just in

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Speaker 2: the in the provision of food for the for the

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Speaker 2: animal life of the area, but also like the role

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Speaker 2: they played traditionally in provisioning and feeding indigenous people.

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Speaker 6: Well, yeah, we you know, we put up as much

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Speaker 6: sock day as we can and then then king salmon

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Speaker 6: then a lot of it we'll fish and get during

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Speaker 6: the winter to eat, you know, and just get them

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Speaker 6: fresh because they don't keep as well in the freezer.

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Speaker 6: But as indigenous, you could, you know, look in our

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Speaker 6: pantry and see we've lived the same life as I

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Speaker 6: grew up with my parents and grandparents. Nothing has changed

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Speaker 6: for us. We've taught our children the same way how.

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Speaker 5: To harvest and take care of the fish.

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Speaker 6: Back in the fifties, when his little kid in Mettle,

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Speaker 6: cat Alaska, hardly anyone if.

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Speaker 5: They even had a refrigerator.

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Speaker 6: They didn't have freezers, so they had to smoke the

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Speaker 6: fish really hard, and they put them in those things.

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Speaker 6: They're like four gallon coffee cans too, with newspaper on

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Speaker 6: the bottom and on top. Then they would keep through

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Speaker 6: the winter, they wouldn't wouldn't get moldy. So that was

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Speaker 6: the the main staple for the for the whole year.

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Speaker 2: Is it the situation now that like people just can't

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Speaker 2: rely on salmon as a staple food because of the

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Speaker 2: mining tailings reducing the population.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, without any hardy, any king salmon coming in. There's

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Speaker 6: you know, a few from the hatchery out there, but

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Speaker 6: they even in Ketchcan they've closed the King salmon derby

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Speaker 6: for I think it's into its fourth year now.

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Speaker 5: So it's just.

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Speaker 6: That that other big mine goes in the river will

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Speaker 6: be destroyed and it's going to flow all the way

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Speaker 6: out into into the ocean here into Clarence Straits and

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Speaker 6: Dicks and Entrance. There's been no avoiding it. It's got

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Speaker 6: nowhere else to go with that comes straight out to

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Speaker 6: the West Beam Canal and then East Beam Canal.

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Speaker 5: Keb.

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Speaker 2: I know you're you're not quite in exactly the same place,

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Speaker 2: but can you explain the situation with the salmon population

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Speaker 2: where you are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe I'll give a little more context to that.

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Speaker 4: I live in Northern British Columbia, Northwest British Columbia on

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Speaker 4: the on the in the Skina River watershed, and over

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Speaker 4: the past probably thirty or forty years, we've seen an

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Speaker 4: extreme decline in salmon, specifically sake and king salmon as

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Speaker 4: you guys call it. We call them spring salmon over here.

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Speaker 4: But we've seen an extreme decline in returns. And you know,

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Speaker 4: we've we've stopped a lot of our commercial fisheries and

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Speaker 4: our food fisheries until which time we feel that the

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Speaker 4: the returns are sufficient enough so that we can continue

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Speaker 4: to harvest. So we've got the Taii Test Fishery at

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Speaker 4: the mouth of the Schena, and they do a count

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Speaker 4: every year throughout, starting in the spring and throughout most

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Speaker 4: of the summer. They do a test fishery and they

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Speaker 4: estimate the amount of salmon that are returning. And we

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Speaker 4: do not fish, as I said, commercially or for food

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Speaker 4: until we feel that the numbers are sufficient that have

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Speaker 4: gone past that fishery. There are many obstacles that face

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Speaker 4: salmon today, most of which are a result of human activity. Logging, mining,

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Speaker 4: commercial fishing, oil and gas, and we all have to

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Speaker 4: take a little bit of responsibility for that because we

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Speaker 4: all enjoy those resources and we use them. And I've

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Speaker 4: always said to people that we can't mine our way

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Speaker 4: out of this global warming and climate change. We have

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Speaker 4: to learn how to we have to learn how to

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Speaker 4: use less. And as I said, you know, mining, obviously

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Speaker 4: it's it's a it's a big concern, but there's also logging,

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Speaker 4: there's oil and gas, as well as commercial fishery. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that happen out in open

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Speaker 4: waters in the North Pacific that can be changed fairly easily.

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Speaker 3: You know. They there's a fishery right now.

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Speaker 4: I believe it's an area one oh four, a fishery

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Speaker 4: that is targeting.

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Speaker 3: Pink salmon.

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Speaker 4: But by our estimation and by estimations from Alaska fisheries,

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Speaker 4: they are the bycatch for Skina salmon. Skina sakey salmon

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Speaker 4: that are returning to the Skina is about four hundred

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Speaker 4: and seventy thousand. Now, these are sakey that are a bycatch.

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Speaker 4: We're not asking this fishery to stop, We're asking this

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Speaker 4: fishery to be more of a terminus fishery, which means

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Speaker 4: that they better target the pink salmon. So right now

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Speaker 4: they're fishing in open waters approximately half the fleet. From

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Speaker 4: what I understand, we're not asking this fishery to stop.

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Speaker 4: We're asking them to move inside so that skin and

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Speaker 4: sawkey can go past this fishery. And right now we

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Speaker 4: are just barely making our escapement every year that make

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Speaker 4: it up into the headwaters where they can spawn. And so,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of different ways we can

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Speaker 4: address the issue of salmon declining in numbers. There's some

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Speaker 4: low hanging fruit, there's a lot of other things that

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Speaker 4: are going to take a lot of time to enforce.

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Speaker 4: But I'm hoping as transboundary nations, we can come together

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Speaker 4: to work towards making sure that salmon have a fighting chance.

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Speaker 4: Salmon are very resilient. They're a keystone species, and they're

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Speaker 4: a good indicator of the health of the environment and

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Speaker 4: surrounding areas as well as the water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's an excellent summary. Thank you, and

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Speaker 2: preps guy, you have a little bit more experience on

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Speaker 2: the industrial side of thing, I guess can you explain

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Speaker 2: how it is that I'm on the Facebook because Louis

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Speaker 2: was saying the tribal nations weren't aware that this mine

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Speaker 2: in one case, with these certainly like these other practices, right,

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Speaker 2: some of which are sort of very nebulous, like global warming,

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Speaker 2: others which are specific like this socce bycatch and the

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Speaker 2: forestry with the nations in question here, the people who's

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Speaker 2: ancestral and current homeland this is happening on not consulted

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Speaker 2: or was there insufficient explanation of the consequences when these

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Speaker 2: with these mines and forestry operations were opened.

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Speaker 7: Certainly, especially early on, you know, to this day and

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Speaker 7: to this day, the right of free entry, which means

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Speaker 7: somebody could be setting pretty much anywhere in the world,

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Speaker 7: get on the internet and claim a mine claim without

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Speaker 7: any kind of notification to the landowner or surface owner

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Speaker 7: by swiping a credit card.

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Speaker 8: Oh well, so there's no.

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Speaker 7: Even requirement for notification on that. And you know, early on,

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Speaker 7: the mining companies, you know, they do a investor press

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Speaker 7: here's that they're doing in Las Vegas and New York

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Speaker 7: and this and that, and then they attempt to come

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Speaker 7: into the communities with that presentation, and what they might

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Speaker 7: call meaningful engagement is actually one it's completely one sided.

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Speaker 7: It's not respectful of the process within that tribe or

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Speaker 7: that community, and it's completely tone deaf. And so what engagement,

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Speaker 7: what consultation does happen is incredibly inadequate.

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Speaker 8: To make matters.

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Speaker 7: Worse, the South, the Alaskan tribes are landless communities. We

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Speaker 7: don't have jurisdiction over a land area. And great work

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Speaker 7: is being done, though we're not starting from zero here.

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Speaker 7: First nations out on the land through landguardian programs and

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Speaker 7: more doing great work. Southeast tribes monitoring. You know, they're

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Speaker 7: ecosystems and food security and fish consumption and all that

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Speaker 7: great science and information, but we do need to incorporate one.

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Speaker 7: We need to recognize that we can't manage a complex

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Speaker 7: organism such as a watershed by dividing it down the

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Speaker 7: middle under two different jurisdictions. We have to I don't

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Speaker 7: say move the border, we basically have to erase it.

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Speaker 7: And we need to treat that ecosystem as a whole.

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Speaker 7: Climate change is having a huge impact the chinook or

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Speaker 7: the king salmon or the spring salmon. They're the largest,

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Speaker 7: so they have the largest egg, they have the less

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Speaker 7: surface area and the environment to absorb oxygen, so they're

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Speaker 7: kind of an indicator of the first you have a problem,

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Speaker 7: you're kind of red flag going up, you know, in

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Speaker 7: your network, complex ecosystem and both Caribbean. Right, we're right,

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Speaker 7: it's the crash of the entire network that we're seeing.

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Speaker 7: Salmon is just an indicator of that. But we're seeing

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Speaker 7: it across the board. And it's unfortunate because here, especially

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Speaker 7: right now in southeast Alaska. I live in Juno, Alaska.

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Speaker 7: Prior to European contact, there was probably five times the

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Speaker 7: population living here than there is now. You look at

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Speaker 7: maps of the old village there everywhere, and they've been

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Speaker 7: there for tens of thousands of years. They managed to

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Speaker 7: do it sustainably, do it with bounce, do it with

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Speaker 7: effective you don't really call it in management, but in

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Speaker 7: engagement with nature. And so here we are kind of

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Speaker 7: on the front lines of it. And strangely enough, we

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Speaker 7: have the solution and people who have within their oral

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Speaker 7: history the stories of my grading due to climate change,

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Speaker 7: of adjusting their life due to climate change. It's in

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Speaker 7: the history or you know, the current oral history. And

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Speaker 7: so when we're looking when we say unify here, there's

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Speaker 7: a great voice and indigenous people too if there is,

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Speaker 7: and it's hard to justify with mining, I'm just going

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Speaker 7: to say that because it's an inherently extractive down to

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Speaker 7: the last profitable dollar industry. It's not sustainable. It's it's

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Speaker 7: reducible constantly as it operates, and now it's being used

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Speaker 7: to justify climate change. Adjusting to climate change is now

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Speaker 7: being used to justify more mining, which again, as usual,

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Speaker 7: is going to fall on the backs of the local

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Speaker 7: people and communities and indigenous people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's shocking. The similar to issues that we see

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Speaker 2: where I live, which is at the other end of

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Speaker 2: the United States too, on its southern border, where the

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Speaker 2: Colorado River is a binational river, right, which is managed

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Speaker 2: by two countries kind of in aggressive competition, and we're

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Speaker 2: seeing the same thing here at the.

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Speaker 8: Justification Front Staates.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yea, yes, yes, and all of them have competing.

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Speaker 2: I was rafting the Colorado River last year, and I

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Speaker 2: have paddled the Colorado River. But they change in that

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Speaker 2: river ecosystem that I've seen, and I've only lived in

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Speaker 2: the US for fifteen years. It is remarkable and I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine what it's like over seventy five years, and

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Speaker 2: the same thing with mining. Actually we're seeing the justification

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Speaker 2: of very damaging lithium mining rights and then being told

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Speaker 2: that this is a solution to climate change and whilst

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Speaker 2: also destroying these ecosystems. If people think it's just an

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Speaker 2: issue that affects one group of people in one group

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Speaker 2: of the part of the world, it's not. It's it's

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Speaker 2: very universal. And that's just in the United States. We

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Speaker 2: see the same thing places I've traveled for work in

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Speaker 2: East Africa, South America. I wonder then if we could

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Speaker 2: talk about the value of accepting indigenous leadership when it

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Speaker 2: comes to addressing I think we began addressing that in

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Speaker 2: Guy's comment very well, but perhaps one thing we could

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Speaker 2: talk about when we talk about that is I think

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Speaker 2: when people think about specifically British Columbia and Alaska, they

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Speaker 2: people will use the term like frontier or wilderness a lot, right,

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Speaker 2: which erases the fact that, as Guy mentioned and both

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Speaker 2: of you have shared with us, that people have been

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Speaker 2: living there for tens of thousands of years in a

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Speaker 2: way that was sustainable, right, Like, these weren't places without

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Speaker 2: human beings, It wasn't empty land, and it was just

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Speaker 2: land that wasn't inhabited by people of European ancestry, and

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Speaker 2: so when we talk about how to go forward with

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Speaker 2: this land, why it's important to listen to the people

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Speaker 2: who have always been there, you said, A good framework.

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Speaker 6: All we have is our stories and how how we

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Speaker 6: grew up with the old folks.

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Speaker 5: And we're lucky to have a rowboat and.

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Speaker 6: Pair of oars back in back in the fifties, still

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Speaker 6: late fifties, some of the people started being able to

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Speaker 6: get a little three horse Johnson something like that.

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Speaker 5: And that was a lot of power. But we also

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Speaker 5: the glaciers have.

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Speaker 6: Melted away up on the Unich River there, so that

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Speaker 6: really affects affecting the amount of water flowing. The level

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Speaker 6: of the water very important to a lot of us.

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Speaker 6: Yet to live live the way of life that we've

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Speaker 6: always lived.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, all the testimony that I have.

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Speaker 6: Done as not serious because I don't have a college

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Speaker 6: education like that.

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Speaker 5: It's just that's that's what they want. I mean, the

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Speaker 5: people they learn from school books.

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Speaker 6: Now, but they've never lived a life and been on

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Speaker 6: all these different areas, the beaches, you know, and we

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Speaker 6: have all our seasons. Every season, we have something to

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Speaker 6: look forward to it like right after I'll start with

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Speaker 6: the spring on the uligans, and and then seaweed and

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Speaker 6: king salmone is a big, big thing to go after.

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Speaker 6: And then we have you know, the summer and then

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Speaker 6: then to fall.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Also we have the greens called asparagus. While asparagus or

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Speaker 6: or harvesting all the time we our our children that

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Speaker 6: we've we have they all know how to do it,

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Speaker 6: where to go. So we've been continued doing in our

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Speaker 6: teaching on our our side, or just they don't want

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Speaker 6: to take us serious, I guess anyway. So I've been,

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Speaker 6: you know, been to a lot of meetings and talked

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Speaker 6: about a lot of this stuff here, and it's just

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Speaker 6: it's going to be a shame if we just keep

357
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Speaker 6: losing everything. We're getting very close salmon and I are

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Speaker 6: getting a lot less and a commercial fishing in my

359
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 6: whole life. And and then later as the kids got older,

360
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Speaker 6: we went into tenderings. We just had family aboard, and

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Speaker 6: you know, we would get loads after loads through the

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Speaker 6: seventies into the eighties in nineties, and then pretty soon

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Speaker 6: you could see the Sainters are coming in with less

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Speaker 6: and less fish and just ulligan alone and been fifteen

365
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Speaker 6: years up there for the Ouligan in the spring and

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Speaker 6: get out of school for a little while and to

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Speaker 6: go up the river ours from Metal Catalan. The last

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Speaker 6: got to up to the Unique River a little over

369
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Speaker 6: one hundred miles, so we have a two hundred mile

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Speaker 6: round trip to get up there and back. And there's

371
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Speaker 6: no safe harbor there. It's wide open to the weather.

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Speaker 6: So you have to really best to learn from somebody

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Speaker 6: who's been up there a few times, and you know,

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Speaker 6: they know where you can maybe duck out of for

375
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Speaker 6: a safe spot and easy to get hurt on the

376
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Speaker 6: river because they're so shallow.

377
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Speaker 5: Yeah, we lost the fifteen.

378
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Speaker 6: Years on the river, that's what it was due to

379
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 6: weak runs and they disappeared for a while. They were

380
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Speaker 6: going up to other streams to get clean water, even

381
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Speaker 6: on like I'll reveal a good gato on Ketchgan Island.

382
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Speaker 6: They went up there one year and there was really

383
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Speaker 6: good run. But then they'll go through Beam Canal and

384
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Speaker 6: the other streams when they have to. Oh, you know,

385
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 6: they're pretty smart. They don't have to go back to

386
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Speaker 6: the same river all the time. We'd have to go

387
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 6: through the canal and check the other places where they

388
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 6: might go up, but with the salmon, they need that

389
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 6: clean river because they won't go up any other river,

390
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 6: and their numbers really really have dropped. Used to see

391
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Speaker 6: king salmon, you know, probably as far as I could reach,

392
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Speaker 6: which is about six feet and spawners in the river,

393
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Speaker 6: and three years ago they were maybe long as one arm.

394
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Speaker 6: I couldn't find any real big ones in there. But

395
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Speaker 6: it was good to see some of them coming back.

396
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Speaker 6: But that won't last long things continue to go the

397
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 6: way they are.

398
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very sad to hear it like this. Yeah,

399
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: this these changes you've seen. I suppose so preps you

400
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: could explain to us, like there's this emergency declaration that's

401
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: been made, right, and we've heard and Louis explain very eloquently,

402
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: how this, how he's seen this decay over his life,

403
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: and how can like accepting this leadership? Right, there's this

404
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 2: emergency that's been declared. I guess, like it, is it possible?

405
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 2: You said Simon were very resilient and said the Oligan

406
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 2: were very smart. Can things return to the way they

407
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: work and we at least stop things getting worse?

408
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 4: And how Yeah, you know, I think our relationship with

409
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: the environment is broken I'm a communications specialist. That's that's

410
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 4: what I do. So I am all about relationships. Now

411
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 4: when I talk about relationships, I'm just I'm not taughtking

412
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: just about relationships with our fellow human beings. But I'm

413
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 4: talking about relationships with the land, the water, the air,

414
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 4: and I like to simplify it for people. I always

415
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 4: tell people, you know, when you're in a relationship with

416
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: a significant other or or a pet. You know, a

417
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 4: lot of people have pets. It's it's a reciprocal relationship.

418
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: There's a lot of give and take and there's a

419
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: lot of compromise.

420
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 9: And as as a young boy and growing up in

421
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 9: in Gigxan Territory and in Jimsand Territory, I was always

422
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 9: taught that you only took what you needed, and you

423
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 9: didn't you didn't take any more, and you respected all

424
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 9: living things.

425
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Speaker 7: You know.

426
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Speaker 4: I don't mean to pick on anybody, but sport fishing

427
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: is against our laws. You know, we don't play with fish.

428
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: It's it's it's just something we do not do. And

429
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 4: when I'm talking about our relationship with with all living things,

430
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: you know, the land, the water, the swimmers, the two legged,

431
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: the four leged, the ones fly. Our relationship with them

432
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: is broken. You know, we used to harvest a lot

433
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 4: more than we do now. You know, in the skin

434
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: of watershed, you know, we used to harvest seals. We

435
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 4: used to harvest, you know, a lot more things other

436
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: than just salmon. And what we've done over the last

437
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: fifty or so years has put so much pressure on

438
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: salmon that they just can't sustain it.

439
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: You know.

440
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 4: You know, I might not be very popular for saying this,

441
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 4: but you know, we used to eat a lot more seals,

442
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 4: and I think we should commercialize a seal hunt and

443
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 4: sell those products so that people can make money and

444
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: people can be fed. I'm not blaming the seals for

445
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: or the decline in salmon. There's a lot of factors

446
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: at play when it comes to the decline in salmon.

447
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 4: But what I'm trying to explain is that our relationship

448
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 4: with the environment is broken, and we need to fix it,

449
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: and and it's out of balance right now, and we

450
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 4: need to bring it back to balance, and we just

451
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 4: need to consume less.

452
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: Certainly, Yeah, and does that I'm curious that that sort

453
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: of like heavy emphasis on salmon is that because it

454
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: was very commercial, so people would be able to harvest

455
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: just as salmon and sell it as opposed to harvesting

456
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: these other animals that they were harvesting before.

457
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: I think, I think salmon were very plentiful, right.

458
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 4: You know, you hear stories about when when the Europeans

459
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: first arrived, you know, they could I've heard stories of them,

460
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: you know, putting a bucket into the water and pulling

461
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 4: the bucket out and it would be just full of salmon. Right,

462
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: So I thought, I think that, you know, there there

463
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: was a mentality that, you know, the resource was infinite, right,

464
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 4: it would last forever. I think that was the mentality.

465
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: And so they just harvested it, harvested as much as

466
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: they could, as fast as they could, and scent it

467
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 4: around the world. And you know, if any of your

468
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 4: listeners haven't tasted salmon, it's it's one of the most

469
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: flavorful things you've ever you will ever taste. And it's

470
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 4: it's the best meat in the world on the planet

471
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 4: for you in terms of nutrients and and such, and

472
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's totally natural, and yeah, it's just

473
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: all around good for the environment.

474
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: You know, it.

475
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 4: Feeds the birds, the two legs, the four legs. It

476
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 4: even feeds plants, you know, and it's it's so resilient,

477
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: and we just need to give salmon a chance and.

478
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: Figure out a way forward where we.

479
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: Can have a reciprocal relationship with salmon and the environment.

480
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and preps like a very conc creat steps. Like

481
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: a lot of our listeners are not in the areas

482
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: where you are, but they could be all over the world, right,

483
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: But are there things they could do to show solidarity,

484
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: to give you support? How can they help?

485
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 7: Well, I would encourage encourage everybody to you know, visit

486
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 7: our website and and kind of understand what we see

487
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 7: as a pathway forward for remedying this. You know, it's

488
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 7: it's you shouldn't come to the table to complain about

489
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 7: a problem unless you have a remedy proposed here.

490
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 8: And and that's what we're trying to do.

491
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 7: We're trying to take that knowledge that it is in

492
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 7: you know, Louis and just in the Unich and the

493
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 7: knowledge in every little stream, even the knowledge within the genetics,

494
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 7: that fine grain of every salmon that goes up every

495
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 7: little stream, and get that incorporated into you know, the uh,

496
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 7: you know, into an engagement proplem sys that ultimately the

497
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 7: way we've been doing it is a failed experiment.

498
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 8: We can call that now.

499
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 7: Because these methods we put in to try to protect

500
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 7: wild salmon, we've seen nothing but wild salmon decline. You

501
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 7: asked if salmon are resilient, They very much are. They

502
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 7: very much are resilient. There's reason there's five species of

503
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 7: salmon here is because of all the upheaval, seismic upheaval

504
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 7: living on the Pacific rim. They're very resilient to the

505
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 7: occasional large impact. Just like you and me, though, we're

506
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 7: very unresilient to constant pressure and stress. You know what

507
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 7: it does to your digestive system, nervous system, everything, your

508
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 7: family life. It's the same for these ecosystems. It's not

509
00:33:52,120 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 7: the occasional huge impact, it's the continuous stress. And this

510
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 7: area was not it's not really pristine. It was highly

511
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 7: modified by the people and actively engaged with their environment.

512
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 7: They enhance salmon streams and resting pools, They built clam gardens,

513
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 7: They move trees and vegetation around, you know, enhance beaches,

514
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 7: and it was very active. And we can incorporate that

515
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 7: knowledge into how we move forward on a lot of

516
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 7: these things.

517
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 8: And we need to do that.

518
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

519
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: Well, when people ask me what they can do, I

520
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 4: respond by saying, what you can do is change your habits. Now,

521
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: a lot of people think that this climate change problem,

522
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 4: resource extraction, et cetera, it is too big.

523
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: For us to tackle, but actually it's not.

524
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 4: You know, if we all do a little bit and

525
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: just change our habits, we can make huge change. You know,

526
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: I always think about, you know, in British Columbia and

527
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 4: in canadaa gosh about you know, forty years ago they

528
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: brought in a law stating that everybody had to wear

529
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 4: seat belts. There was huge backlash. Nobody wanted to wear

530
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: a seat belt. They weren't used to it right, But

531
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: after a while, you know, nobody, nobody even bothered to

532
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 4: complain about it.

533
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: We just do it.

534
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 4: Whenever I get into my vehicle. Now it's second nature

535
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: to put my seat belt on. I don't even think

536
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: about it. It's done.

537
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 5: Now.

538
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 4: If we can all just look at some of the

539
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: habits that we have, whether it's you know, using too

540
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: much water, maybe some wasteful practices, you know, driving when

541
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 4: we don't need to drive. Maybe maybe we can walk

542
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 4: a little more often, and maybe we can bike a

543
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: little more often, just really look at what actions you're

544
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: taking daily that maybe attributing to climate change and global

545
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 4: warming and trying to change one habit, and when you've

546
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 4: got that habit, change change another one. And you know,

547
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 4: I think over time we can we can fix this.

548
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: But it's going to.

549
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 4: Take a concerned effort by everybody on this planet, and

550
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: more so by some of us who are a little

551
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: more privileged I guess, to be able to change our habits.

552
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 3: Thanks.

553
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was very very well said. And

554
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: do you have anything to add.

555
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 6: Louis, Yeah, I appreciate what Kirby said earlier on O.

556
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 5: We're connected to the land.

557
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 6: And everybody's grandmother was your grandmother when I was growing up.

558
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 6: As long as you were, you know, you paid attention

559
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 6: and you would help. I remember when in the fish camp,

560
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 6: grandmother brought my friend and myself into the smokehouse and

561
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 6: they had they had a fish that was just put in,

562
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 6: the salmon that was in the middle, and the finished

563
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 6: salmon that was ready to come out on the end.

564
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 6: And you know, they would only tell you once. They said,

565
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 6: you can eat all you want, but if you waste

566
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 6: one piece. You were never welcomed in the smokehouses again,

567
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 6: so they didn't waste time, and they told it would

568
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 6: tell the children when they get too loud, your children

569
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 6: are to be seen but not heard. And just like that,

570
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 6: they never stopped teaching. It was I wish I could

571
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 6: remember more from a long time ago, but I was

572
00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 6: lucky that they treated you know, whatever friend I had,

573
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 6: their their grandparents were were mine that just learned how

574
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 6: to get bark off the cedar tree, and so you

575
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 6: don't kill the cedar tree from my friend's grandmother. I

576
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 6: never forgotten. When my wife wanted to go out and

577
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 6: get get some bark, she was surprised. I told her

578
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 6: I know how to do it, and so we would.

579
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 6: We went out and got it. But just things like

580
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 6: that is.

581
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 5: We just try not to.

582
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 6: Leave a footprint when when we left our insights or

583
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 6: any camp areas.

584
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 5: I just wanted to add that thank.

585
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: You, thank you. It's very insightful. So talking of leaving

586
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: a footprint, I think perhaps the last thing I want

587
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: to talk about is mind tailings and the way that

588
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: because of some of these minds. So there are some

589
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 2: I guess minds that people want to build. Some minds

590
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: of people have already built, right I was reading on

591
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: your website about tailing dam and what that is and

592
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: what that does and what that might mean for protecting

593
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: the ecosystem. So can you explain what a tailing stam

594
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: is and what a tailing stamp failure is.

595
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 6: I just I learned a little bit on a meeting

596
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 6: up and Anchorage on the form on the Alaska Environment,

597
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 6: and they had scientists there that we're speaking, and this

598
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 6: is a few years ago now, and they talked about

599
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 6: every mind that's in place is poisoning the rivers to

600
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 6: this day and it will always poison because it doesn't

601
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 6: stop bleeding out of there.

602
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 5: Wherever they were mining.

603
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 6: That was very interesting, and they had just started to

604
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 6: do some water sampling and we were trying to do

605
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 6: that and this year we were finally able to do

606
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 6: something with that. We got to start with this guy

607
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 6: there and looking forward to get water samples come fall

608
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 6: at moose hunting time and we'll have to see how

609
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 6: many he would like to have this time.

610
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 5: I just know, no, it's not good. It's poisonous.

611
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 6: The water used to be that beautiful bluish glacier water

612
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 6: coming down through the river there and not seeing that anymore,

613
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 6: so I want to get first water for coffee, I'll

614
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 6: go to the side mountain where I know it's clean and.

615
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 5: Come and coming off the mountain. Things like that we

616
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 5: have to watch out for, you.

617
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 7: Know, specifically to a tailings dawn. That's just the containment

618
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 7: structure for a tailing's dump. They may columns, tailings disposal

619
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 7: facilities or storage facilities, but they're never coming back for them.

620
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 8: It's a dump.

621
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 7: It's permitted, just as any municipal landfill would be. British

622
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 7: Columbia tends to use what they call some aqueous tailings disposable.

623
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 7: They need to keep oxygen from the tailings because otherwise

624
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 7: they're going to oxidize. They're going to create acid mind drainage,

625
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 7: dissolve all of these heavy metals into the salmon streams

626
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 7: and basically a large risk, a large threat. We live

627
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 7: in a rainforest, so that water beunce is very critical

628
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 7: and it's almost impossible to do in a time of

629
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 7: climate change. They're wanting to maintain three meters of water

630
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 7: on top of these tailings in perpetituity. I mean, at

631
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 7: what point in perpetituity does any certainty of your predictions

632
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 7: completely break down? And they require massive amounts of water treatment.

633
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 7: And it's not just the tailings, it's the waste rock

634
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 7: in Louis's Unich River, it's not just the Bruce Jack.

635
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 7: But now now they're permitting the Escape Creek, an open

636
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 7: pit and already permitted but not yet built as the KSM,

637
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 7: which would be one of the top five largest open

638
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 7: pits in the world on a small water shed with

639
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 7: incredibly low hardness of water, meaning it cannot absorb any

640
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 7: kind of change of pH or acid and is home to,

641
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 7: you know, the spawning and rearing grounds and genetic diversity

642
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 7: of Pacific salmon, and in the long run, the only

643
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 7: way we're going to keep salmon from extinction as well,

644
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 7: as Kirby says, kind of help, you know, change our

645
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 7: attitude with this world. But we have to maintain that

646
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 7: genetic diversity that's spawn in all of those little tiny

647
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 7: streams throughout the coast and far into British Columbia. We

648
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 7: need that genetic versity. Salmon are incredibly resilient, but we

649
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 7: also can't know completely ignore our part in disrupting the

650
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 7: natural cycles here, and as they pointed out, they are

651
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 7: incredibly disruptive. I did you know, I want to say that,

652
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 7: you know, Louis mentioned how they're not listening. He's not

653
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 7: listened to, and that story can be multiplied in every

654
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 7: community and tribe throughout the Pacific Northwest and probably the

655
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 7: entire United States about the world. But that's what we're

656
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 7: trying to remedy here, trying to let's all get together.

657
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 7: Let's ignore that border. We find out in these meetings

658
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 7: like our summit, that were actually related, some of us

659
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 7: were related to one another. And look at this in

660
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 7: the big picture.

661
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 8: Holistic way.

662
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 7: You have to look at big things like climate change

663
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 7: and natural ecosystems and complex mining that just gets bigger

664
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 7: and bigger just due to economy of scale. They might

665
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 7: the good stuff a long time ago. They took the

666
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 7: chocolate chips out of the chocolate chip cookie. Now they're

667
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 7: going after the baking soda, and that creates exponential moral waste.

668
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, because there's less of the stuff they're looking

669
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: for and more of the waste.

670
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 8: Wow. Yeah.

671
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: I've certainly spent some time around some abandoned mines in Alaska,

672
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: and it's it's wild to see this massive intrusion and

673
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: then abandonment and just sort of complete sort of obligation

674
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: of the responsibility for the damage that it's done.

675
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 7: I look at the climax lived of a mine and Leadville, Colorado.

676
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 8: It's a good example. Been there too, Yeah, maybe you've

677
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 8: seen that.

678
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: I've raced my bike up there a couple of times.

679
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, it has to work there.

680
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: Oh well okay, yeah, yeah, wow, that is a and

681
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: the impact that it's had on that town of the mining.

682
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 2: It's all it's a process that hurts almost everyone above

683
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: from the people who owned mining companies right, Like, it

684
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: doesn't benefit as many as many people as it in

685
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 2: the long run, it hurts.

686
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 7: I think you're going towards benefits, and there should be

687
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 7: equitable benefits. But the benefit, the first cut of the

688
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 7: pie is the environment itself. They have it not only

689
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 7: has to just be maintained and sustained, it has to

690
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 7: actually benefit at this point if we're going to avoid

691
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 7: large scale collapse and u But there's ways of doing that,

692
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 7: and part of that is giving Indigenous people a strong

693
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 7: save consent the new laws. You know, Canada ratified the

694
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 7: United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. BC

695
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 7: has implemented that through the Declaration on the Rights of

696
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 7: People's Act, they're supposed to respect, you know, these traditional territories.

697
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 7: Regardless of the land status of Alaska tribes, they certainly

698
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 7: have an obligation to respect the First Nations and the

699
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 7: ends heeded territories of the First Nation people in British Columbia.

700
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 7: That's clear by law, and the Supreme Courts have expanded

701
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 7: it to people that no longer live in Alaska if

702
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 7: they still have that direct connection to their traditional territories

703
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 7: within I'm sorry, British Columbia. And so we're going to

704
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 7: use that to make sure that Louis and everybody is.

705
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 8: Heard and.

706
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 7: Get that knowledge as part of and not just the knowledge,

707
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 7: but the act of participation. That's part of the benefit

708
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 7: sharing if indeed anything happens. But at this point, we

709
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 7: just need so much more restoration before we damage it further, quite.

710
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, of course, So you spoke about this large

711
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: open pit mind, and it's something people can do if

712
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: they want to. I'm guessing it would be optimal for

713
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: them not to open another massive open pit mind days

714
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: of something people could do to help maybe make that

715
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 2: a process that you know, where Indigenous people listen to

716
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: and not just mining interests.

717
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 8: Well, this indeed is for me, and I'll be quit.

718
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 8: I think, you know.

719
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 7: Unfortunately, the engaging with the process, with the recognition that

720
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 7: the process is broken, but engaging it to the maximum

721
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 7: extent you can to try to get your word out

722
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 7: there and influence decision makers.

723
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 8: You got to at least do that.

724
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sure Kirby has stood the lines out there

725
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 7: in British Columbia.

726
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 8: I'm sure he can speak to it.

727
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: Please, do you, Kob?

728
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, if you're If you or your listeners

729
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 4: haven't heard of the term indigenous science, I would like

730
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 4: to introduce that Indigenous science is a distinct, time tested

731
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 4: and methodological knowledge system that can enhance and complement Western science.

732
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 4: Now I've introduced this many times. It's by no means

733
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 4: did I invent this at all, but I've been introduced

734
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 4: to it about a year ago and I've been using

735
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 4: it a lot now. In many instances, indigenous science is

736
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 4: thousands of years old, whereas Western science. In some areas,

737
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 4: such as British Columbia, Canada, where we've only you know,

738
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 4: been in contact with European settlers for just over five

739
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 4: hundred years, indigenous science is much much older.

740
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: It's as I said earlier.

741
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 4: It's it's time tested and the knowledge is immense, and

742
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 4: you know that alone should give a lot of credence

743
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 4: to to the knowledge and the science of Indigenous peoples.

744
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's an excellent consideration. And we had

745
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: an episode this week at you spoke of indigenous medical technologies,

746
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: and I think it's important to recognize these things are

747
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: on a par with like European Western medical technologies, right

748
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: as opposed to be different from, but have them on

749
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: the same level and the same with the science that

750
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: you mentioned. I think that's an excellent point too.

751
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 7: I have to chime in because I had that point

752
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 7: of view. Sometimes I have to laugh because what is

753
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 7: at least sixty five percent of all pharmaceuticals are derived

754
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 7: from natural plants that the Indigenous people and full knowledge

755
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 7: for a long time, and that information wasn't necessarily transferred

756
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 7: in the nicest manner often, so I need to acknowledge that.

757
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

758
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, every time we take an aspirin, we're benefiting from

759
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: indigenous science, right, Indigenous medical technologies.

760
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, and those technologies are incredible the hell about because

761
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 7: just a prime example, it's it's an incredible study in

762
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 7: the morphology of the mouth of helibate, the habits of

763
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 7: a helibate, and they can design the hook to target

764
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 7: very specifically the size of the helibate, so they're not

765
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 7: getting the big breeders and this and that, and just

766
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 7: the amount of observation adjustment engineering that goes into a

767
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 7: helibateocause in itself very credible. The Western people when they

768
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 7: moved in and at least here on the coast, they

769
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 7: looked at the way the clink at height and Shimshei

770
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 7: and people were harvesting fish with beach traps and beach

771
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 7: nets and whatnot, and they copied that fish wheels and

772
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 7: they copied that technology. But then they took it to

773
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 7: the massive extreme and just took everything out of the rivers.

774
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 7: But they used indigenous technology to do it, ironically enough,

775
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 7: so we can turn that around. You know, we can

776
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 7: use that technology to turn this around. And there's no

777
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 7: reason why we shouldn't this thanks point.

778
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: Is there anything you each would like to leave our

779
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 2: listeners with, maybe a place they can find you online,

780
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: a way they can show support and something like that.

781
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 6: A little bit that I didn't mention those I'm also

782
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 6: I'm Simpson and Clinkett My grandfather and great grandfather. It

783
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 6: came from Hartley Bay when Mettle Catla was built by

784
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 6: them and eighteen eighty seven, I believe and their boat

785
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 6: builders that they sold their rowboats up and down the coast.

786
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 6: But yeah, I couldn't spend enough time with my grandfather.

787
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 6: He was good to just you never stopped learning from

788
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 6: all of our elders. I just wanted to throw that

789
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 6: in there.

790
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much. How about you, Kevy,

791
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 2: anything you'd like to leave people with.

792
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 3: I just want to leave people with it thought.

793
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 4: You know, as I said earlier, look at look at

794
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 4: the habits that you can change that are the low

795
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 4: hanging fruit. And I'd also like them to, you know,

796
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 4: think about how they can change. Think about holding your

797
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 4: elected officials accountable. I'm not sure what it's like where

798
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 4: you're from, but you know a lot of our elected

799
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 4: officials they like to talk, but they don't like to

800
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 4: do anything.

801
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 3: So actions speak louder than words.

802
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 4: Hold your elected officials accountable every time you see them,

803
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 4: ask them what they're doing about protecting wild salmon.

804
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: Thanks, thank you guy, and think from you.

805
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 7: Okay, Yeah, Quickly along the lines of what Kirby was saying,

806
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 7: I mean, recognize that the metals that are necessary to

807
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 7: support our lifestyle are already there. They're in our walls,

808
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 7: in our cars, in our computers. The idea that we

809
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 7: need more of these metals in our lives is just

810
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 7: the idea that we need more stuff in our lives,

811
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 7: and that addiction is what's strangling this planet. And so

812
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 7: Louis I mean sorry, Kirby's you know advice is you know,

813
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 7: is very strong. But if you want to follow along,

814
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 7: go to www. Dot s e I t C dot

815
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 7: org o rg SO, Southeast Alaska Indigenous trans Boundary Commission

816
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 7: s C I T S. We're just getting started and

817
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 7: so there should be some incredible stories along the way.

818
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 4: One last thing I'd like to say is that we

819
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 4: really need to consider the circular economy right now. We

820
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 4: live in a society where we throw oh way so

821
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 4: many things.

822
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 3: You know.

823
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 4: I think about vehicles that go to the junkyard and

824
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 4: they're crushed, you know, like we should be taking those

825
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 4: vehicles apart, using the parts that we can, instead of

826
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 4: just crushing it into this big, massive rock that we're

827
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 4: eventually going to need to dismantle again sometime in the future.

828
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 4: We should be doing that now, and if there are

829
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 4: any good parts in that vehicle, then they should be

830
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 4: put back into circulation.

831
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:31,959
Speaker 10: Yeah.

832
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 2: I think that's an exa point.

833
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 8: Yeah. They are elements after all.

834
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 6: Yeah.

835
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they're already broken down into the elements, right,

836
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 4: and we're just crushing them back into a big rock again,

837
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 4: and then we're gonna have to take them out into

838
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:46,919
Speaker 4: the elements again.

839
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we run aft have to dig out of

840
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: the ground. It's very sad to think that, like the

841
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: same desire. A colleague and I spent some time reporting

842
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 2: on the civil warm in Myanmar last year, and that's

843
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: the same thing. It's people trying to extract rare earth metals,

844
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 2: and then it's it's people dying in the environment being

845
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 2: damage because of it. And it's I think Curve made

846
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: excellent point that like if we don't you know, those

847
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: things are already there, and guys said it, like in

848
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: our walls and in our computers and things, and we

849
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: could do so much better to use the ones we

850
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: have rather than consistently damaging people on the planet to

851
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 2: dig up more.

852
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 8: Respectful. Yeah, be respectful.

853
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: Thank you so much all of you for giving me

854
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 2: some of your afternoon and sharing your time with our listeners.

855
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: I know they would really appreciate it, and I do

856
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: you too. Hello, Welcome to It could Happen here a

857
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: podcast which only has one button, and it's edited by

858
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: Danil using a ten year old Logitech Experts control. That's

859
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: a submarine joke for those of you who have not

860
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: been following h Today, I'm joined by Alex and Tom,

861
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 2: both of them graduate students in the UC system, and

862
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: we're talking about this this really obscene charge of assault

863
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 2: that some graduate students are facing after they disrupted an

864
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 2: alumni event in San Diego. Hi, Alex and Tom, if

865
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: you had to introduce yourselves a little bit, as far

866
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 2: as you feel comfortable.

867
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 11: Hi, Jan Sure, thanks for having us back. My name

868
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 11: is Alex. I'm a graduate student at University of California,

869
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 11: San Diego. Some of you have been listening since November.

870
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 11: My remember when I first came on the show to

871
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 11: tell you about our strike. And I guess we're going

872
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 11: to give some interesting updates since then.

873
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 12: I'm also graduate student you see, San Diego. I'm in

874
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 12: pretty my program. I've been here for a while, change

875
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 12: apart which very cool.

876
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think to start out with we

877
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 2: should just explain, Well, we'll explain what happened in detail

878
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: at the event in a bit, but can you just

879
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: explain what these charges that people are facing are and

880
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 2: how they found out that they have been charged with

881
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 2: assault after doing something which was not violent in the

882
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: first place.

883
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

884
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 11: Absolutely, So, the most sort of recent thing that's happened

885
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,479
Speaker 11: is is and we'll talk about the details in the moment,

886
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 11: but as James alluded to, we held a peaceful protest

887
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 11: back in May related to a number of violations of

888
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 11: our most recent collective bargaining agreement, which I'll also be

889
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 11: happy to go into detail on, and in response to

890
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 11: what was, by all accounts, by what I witnessed by

891
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 11: everyone else that I've talked to, was a completely peaceful protest,

892
00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 11: the university has decided to allege that sixty seven graduate students,

893
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 11: including by our account eighteen who were either not present

894
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 11: or not involved, are going to be charged under the

895
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 11: student conduct process with committing a physical assault, as well

896
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 11: as charges for disruption and a vague assertion that we

897
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 11: were threatening the health and safety of others. These are

898
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 11: quite serious allegations. They do carry potential sanctions up to

899
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 11: long term suspension. And expulsion from the university, right.

900
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I think people like the exposure for

901
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: graduate students is so high, right, Like, if you are

902
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: on the job market, you know that this could set

903
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: back your progress. Already very challenging job market, its suspension

904
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 2: or expulsion presumably could have long term consequences for your

905
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: employability and something that like I think I spent the

906
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: better part of eight years at UCSD. You've invested a

907
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: lot of time, you get paid like shit, and if

908
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: you then get nothing out of it, that is potentially devastating.

909
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 12: For each individualness. This is absolutely devastating. These are careers

910
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 12: I've invested, you know, a minimum of seven years at

911
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 12: least Humanities Fund. There's so many of us more. But

912
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 12: it's also never stating for the university itself because these

913
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 12: students that are being charged by from virtually having program

914
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 12: on fact that so many of them are working in

915
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 12: very prestientious, high powered laboratories, have you know, fellowships and scholarships.

916
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 12: So this is really a bad look for the university

917
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 12: as well to you know, potentially have sixty seven graduate

918
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 12: students under these charges.

919
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally sixty seven.

920
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 8: It's funny.

921
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: I've been sixty eight, we could have. It's there's when

922
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: I like, I don't know when I hay sixty obviously

923
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 2: I think of like nineteen sixty eight. And it's remarkable.

924
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: This is a university at one point somewhat self immolated,

925
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: you see in Project Vietnam War, and now we are

926
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 2: like I had a reputation for radicalism, and now here

927
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 2: we are charging people for walking onto a stage and shouting.

928
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about that they're walking onto

929
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 2: a stage and shouting? Can you maybe give us an

930
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: account of the events and then we'll talk about maybe

931
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: how those have been represented in the process. That makes sense.

932
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, sure. So this particular protest took place at an

933
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 11: awards ceremony, very sort of fancy, sort of annual event

934
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 11: that the university hosts where they give awards to various

935
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 11: alumni and kind of as a sort of fundraising opportunity

936
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 11: as well. And what the protest to the form of

937
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 11: was that a number of graduate student workers walked on

938
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:06,439
Speaker 11: stage uninvited and began giving speeches and holding signs demonstrating

939
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 11: the ways in which and informing the audience of the

940
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 11: ways in which that our contracts have not been upheld

941
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 11: since we signed them in December. The ways in which

942
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 11: the university is circumventing some of the raises that we

943
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 11: were promised for our research and teaching, and the ways

944
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 11: it is trying to sort of prevent those things from

945
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 11: being resolved in the sort of normal channels that you

946
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 11: go through with these sort of these sort of union

947
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 11: and contract administration things. And that's been I'm gooing for

948
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 11: i suppose six months now, with relatively little process. So

949
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 11: that demonstration took place about up until the time that

950
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 11: some local police officers arrived, and at that time the

951
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 11: demonstration was fully compliant with those orders, and the police

952
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 11: officers noted such and theirs, which I was able to

953
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 11: retrieve from the city. And then after that the demonstration

954
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 11: continued outside of the venue of the event, where people

955
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 11: were still able to you know, make a decent amount

956
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 11: of noise and raise their grievances despite the walls separating

957
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 11: the group from the alumni inside. And it certainly did

958
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 11: get some attention, since we were in touch after that

959
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 11: with people who were sort of relatively high up in

960
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 11: a number of university and alumni centric offices and who

961
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 11: were surprised to hear of the things that we were

962
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 11: alleging and wanted to hear more and be able to

963
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 11: raise those issues further up into the university. So these

964
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 11: charges certainly did sort of come as a shock, given

965
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 11: that at first a lot of people at the event

966
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 11: seemed receptive in a way, though certainly not all, but

967
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 11: some were certainly receptive to our concerns and what we

968
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 11: had to say.

969
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 12: A couple of interesting details there. The first one of

970
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 12: this that the immediate in participate in this event was

971
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 12: actually the news that Chancellor Bridey Coles Law was in attendance,

972
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 12: and this was only a week or two after they

973
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 12: become public knowledge that he had received a five hundred

974
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 12: thousand dollars arrays as an effort to keep him in

975
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 12: the university, which raises a salary to more than a

976
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 12: million dollars and I think makes him the fourth highest

977
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 12: paid university chancellor or president or in the United States.

978
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 12: So we presented him with an award for UCS these

979
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 12: most overpaid workers, and that was sort of our rationale

980
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 12: before doing this specific event. And the other thing is

981
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 12: that when the police arrived, they actually gave no verbal

982
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 12: orders for us to clear out. As soon as we

983
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 12: saw them. We peacefully started to leave the stage, and

984
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 12: they stood there as well. Their rests were made, now,

985
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 12: interviews were orders were shouted. They remained on site for

986
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 12: the duration as we stood outside picking. There were no reinforcements,

987
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 12: There were no swat teams, and we're just one or

988
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 12: two squad cars. The police typically are known for having

989
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 12: outside responses to minor problems, but the fact that they

990
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 12: did not have any kind of aggressive response to this

991
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 12: indicate to us that they were was entirely peaceful events.

992
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the dispatch looks don't show them having any

993
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 2: concerns about violence or responding to to any like real violence,

994
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 2: of them seeing any violence responding to it, right.

995
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,439
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I was able to grab those in the Yeah,

996
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 11: it's difficult to say because it looks like maybe two

997
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 11: people called nine on one, even though three.

998
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 12: It was three.

999
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had no violence.

1000
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, two said there was no violence. That third person

1001
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 11: said they had secondhand reports that we had pushed the

1002
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 11: chancellor off the stage, which we have video of that

1003
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 11: very definitely not happening. He stood next to the graduate

1004
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 11: students and then of his own initiative, turned and walked

1005
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 11: off the stage. So the only allegation that's documented in

1006
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 11: real time of any violence occurring was one admittedly secondhand,

1007
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 11: and two is disproven conclusively by the available video.

1008
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 2: Right, and that video is online right, like it's been posted. Yeah,

1009
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 2: it's easy to find.

1010
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 11: There's that particular one that really easily disproves it. There's

1011
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 11: a video link for the union uploaded it, so I

1012
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 11: can we can drop that in the show notes second,

1013
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 11: send that too.

1014
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, We'll make sure we do that. And likewise,

1015
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 2: the pra that this publicly available, folks could go see it.

1016
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: All Sandy pras are publicly available. We have like a

1017
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: lot of evidence that no one was finally assaulted. What

1018
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 2: is the university alleging that was done? And I guess

1019
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: that they claiming what do they claim the student workers did?

1020
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 5: Well?

1021
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 11: The closest thing that we can find so in a

1022
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 11: you know, in the documentation that each person was given

1023
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 11: about the charges that they face, the closest thing we

1024
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 11: can find to a description that seems to imply assault

1025
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 11: was that someone claimed to have seen the chancellor. The

1026
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 11: word they use was bumped, which doesn't even necessarily imply

1027
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 11: intentionality in my mind. And and really the way that

1028
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 11: I read that sentence is that, you know, possible the

1029
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 11: stage was a little crowded and someone might have bumped

1030
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 11: into him. But I don't even recall ever seeing that happen.

1031
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 11: I haven't talked to anyone who recalls seeing that happen,

1032
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 11: anyone who was in our group or not. But other

1033
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 11: than that, the rest of the report is really just

1034
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 11: full of descriptions of how they they I don't even

1035
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 11: think they talked to anyone who said they were scared

1036
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 11: of us. They just said people might have been scared

1037
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 11: of us. It's very strange.

1038
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 12: The report reads like a propaganda from the class for

1039
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 12: it's pearl clutching of the highest order. Some champagne glasses

1040
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 12: were broken.

1041
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 8: Uh.

1042
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 12: The event itself cost over one hundred thousand dollars to

1043
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 12: set up, with many different caterers and vendors, somebody who

1044
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 12: all the way from Switzerland where the event. And actually

1045
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 12: these aren't made up quotes from the report, you know.

1046
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 12: And during event itself, it's ironic because I was at

1047
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 12: the event as we, you know, indeterminate and out of

1048
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 12: other dual students, and we actually were assaulted by members

1049
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 12: of the crowd who would come up and put their

1050
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 12: arms on their hands on our shoulders and how us

1051
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 12: puss why people hate unions and you know, hey, I

1052
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 12: brought my nine year old grandmother to this and I

1053
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 12: have some you know, fifty million dollars ranch, and I'm

1054
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 12: being honored for this. People pumping my trust, people pumping

1055
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 12: other people's trusting fingers on our faces and telling us

1056
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 12: to really ruined their special night. And our response was,

1057
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 12: do you know, I think that our need to pay

1058
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 12: branch and our theater, ourselves is a little bit more

1059
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 12: important than your special night at the at the museum

1060
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,560
Speaker 12: by the ocean with the glasses of champagne.

1061
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's not like it was even a

1062
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 2: All that was happening was that people who had given

1063
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 2: them money or the who they want them to, who

1064
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: do they want to get money from, were being made

1065
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 2: to feel special. It wasn't as if you even interrupted

1066
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: like a like a meeting or a function of the university.

1067
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 2: And unless we consider the function of the university these days,

1068
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 2: seems to be to get money and then distribute it

1069
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 2: to people in positions of power in the university. So

1070
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 2: given that right that this was an event, I guess

1071
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 2: which reinforced the people who have authority in the university.

1072
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 2: It's interest to what's not interesting. It's upsetting to look

1073
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 2: at the nature of the process that these sixty seven

1074
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 2: people are facing, because it's not that they're not being

1075
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 2: accused in a court of doing a crime. They're being

1076
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: accused by the university in the university of breaking the

1077
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 2: conduct rules of the university. So the university is like,

1078
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 2: it's all parties apart from the defendant. Right, it's a judge,

1079
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,480
Speaker 2: it's a jury, it's a prosecuting lawyer and the executioner.

1080
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 2: So can you yeah, go ahead.

1081
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 12: And I'll just say something about that. You know that

1082
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 12: this was very much calculated on the part of the

1083
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 12: university to charge us as under the student crime Dutch

1084
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 12: violation because of they're charging us as students. They're not

1085
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 12: charging us as workers. If we have workers, we would

1086
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 12: have representation in our meetings that would be part of

1087
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 12: that litigation process. But as as students, the contexts of

1088
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 12: the labor five that is for the entire event is

1089
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 12: relevant that it can be divorced from that and treated

1090
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:16,799
Speaker 12: the music coage. To charge undergraduates who are are drinking

1091
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 12: in their terms sexually harassing their peers from their classes

1092
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 12: is not something that is in my view appropriate at

1093
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 12: all to apply to a labor dispute, which is what

1094
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 12: this was.

1095
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I think the only time I've been party

1096
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 2: to these proceedings is when an undergraduate did physically assault

1097
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 2: someone who I was teaching with. But it's not a

1098
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 2: normal procedure by any means, and certainly to use against

1099
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 2: grad students are very clearly taking part in a labor action.

1100
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 2: I think it's very telling that the university is kind

1101
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 2: of using one system to circumvent the fair bargaining and

1102
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 2: the unfair labor practices and all the things that they

1103
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 2: seem really like, they seem almost like inexplicably committed to

1104
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 2: not sticking to the contract, even though they got a

1105
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 2: contract that was largely favorable to them and not as

1106
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 2: much as people had wanted at the start of the strike.

1107
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: So how does it work from here? Like, what does

1108
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 2: this process look like?

1109
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 11: Well, to start with, each of us has an individual

1110
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 11: meeting with a representative of the university, and at that meeting,

1111
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 11: we essentially have the response, the option to either accept

1112
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:37,679
Speaker 11: responsibility for all the charges against us, or to say

1113
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 11: that we do not accept that responsibility and want to

1114
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 11: continue the process forward, at which point they will they

1115
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 11: will schedule or attempt to schedule a conduct review board

1116
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 11: meeting where I believe three representatives from who have been

1117
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 11: sort of predetermined to serve on these conduct review boards

1118
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 11: will judge the weight of the evident in a preponderance

1119
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 11: of the evidence standard, and at that point then the

1120
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 11: Office of Student Conduct, if you are found responsible, I

1121
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,480
Speaker 11: believe that office is then what decides what the sanctions

1122
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 11: are that you will face. So this this is a

1123
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 11: bit of an unprecedented process, at least for us we actually,

1124
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 11: I believe, and I want to clarify some numbers. I

1125
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 11: think I said sixty seven graduate students earlier, they were

1126
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 11: actually fifty nine from this event who were charged, and

1127
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:36,759
Speaker 11: that sixty seven comes from a to who were charged

1128
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 11: for a protest related to the university's attempt to fire

1129
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 11: workers for striking, which is still ongoing. That protest took

1130
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 11: place in January, and there that conduct process for those

1131
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 11: eight workers has not yet resolved as we speak today

1132
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 11: on June twentieth, So it's not clear how they are

1133
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 11: going to manage the logistics of trying to charge six

1134
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 11: fifty nine workers in a single case. It could, assuming

1135
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 11: they follow their entire procedures by the book, and don't

1136
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 11: dismiss any charges. It could take more than a year

1137
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 11: to resolve this situation, Jesus.

1138
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 2: And for people who have like they're either defending or

1139
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: advancing to candidacy or these are all things you can

1140
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 2: do within grad school people who aren't familiar where you

1141
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 2: sort of level up your grad student status.

1142
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:24,680
Speaker 8: I guess.

1143
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 2: Are people able to do that?

1144
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 11: Yeah, Luckily this does not restrict your academic advancement. It

1145
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 11: can potentially if it goes from quarter to quarter, they

1146
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 11: can potentially put I believe, holds on registration. But I

1147
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 11: think that's only if you don't sort of carry out

1148
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 11: your sanctions, assuming your sanction is not suspension. I could

1149
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 11: be a time correct if I'm wrong on that. But

1150
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 11: what still could be the case is that you could

1151
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 11: you know, and could well be the case for me

1152
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 11: that I defend before the conclusion of this process, but

1153
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 11: it could still end up is something that would be

1154
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 11: on a contact record that could be released in certain

1155
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 11: employment situations. So even if you are able to escape

1156
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 11: the process, so to speak, it is not necessarily not

1157
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 11: going to follow you after that point.

1158
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 12: By all indicators from those who have already had their

1159
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 12: first meeting on asking you know, need accept responsibility and

1160
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 12: of course states that no, we die foundations against us.

1161
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 12: But it seems as if the Office of Student Conduct

1162
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 12: is quite over poles by this. People have been trying

1163
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 12: to schedule a meeting to have not gotten responses from

1164
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:45,799
Speaker 12: the office.

1165
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 3: Uh.

1166
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 12: The office then gets back to them a week or

1167
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 12: two later with you know, openly one or two options.

1168
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 12: The really calculated evil of this it means charges dropped

1169
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 12: on the very last day of the quarter, which means

1170
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 12: that at least in the Arts and Humanities, most of

1171
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,879
Speaker 12: us are going out of town or are conducting research

1172
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 12: or are on on fellowships, so we're not around to

1173
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 12: respond to these. And I think that that was a

1174
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 12: decision that was purposefully made, but you know, to to

1175
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 12: process this is the sheer number of students involved in

1176
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:32,480
Speaker 12: this is stidering, and I think that the office offices

1177
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 12: are really struggling. The other thing that I will say

1178
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 12: is we have it from informal channels that this is

1179
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 12: something that is being directed from the very top, which

1180
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 12: is the same from the Chancellor's office, that this is

1181
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 12: not something that you know, in partial observers, you know,

1182
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 12: made of something that the chancellor himself is directing.

1183
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, giving a chance to with

1184
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 2: there it also like it just put me in mind

1185
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 2: of twenty ten when I don't think either of you

1186
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 2: were at UCSD, but for those of us who were,

1187
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 2: and there's a film about it actually called Dear White People,

1188
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 2: But there was a party where people wore blackface and

1189
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: this happened I think through a fraternity that was associated

1190
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 2: with the university, and getting the university to do anything

1191
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:26,839
Speaker 2: disciplinary about that required hundreds off not thousands of people

1192
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 2: to go on strike, to march, to occupy the Chancellor's complex,

1193
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 2: and to like physically demand action for weeks and weeks

1194
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: if not months from the Chancellor's system, right like, and

1195
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 2: still it was extremely unsatisfactory process. The resolution was with

1196
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:47,799
Speaker 2: extremely unsatisfactory. But I guess that there's.

1197
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 12: A contemporaneous incident happening right now. I don't know other depils,

1198
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:59,600
Speaker 12: but impers individual was video or video fakes themselves progressing

1199
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 12: screen with his professor and making low comments and a

1200
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 12: whole variety of really massosionistic behavior. Apparently this is his

1201
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 12: story to restraining or that he's received. But as a

1202
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 12: univers is concerned, this is still the case that's that's

1203
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:21,640
Speaker 12: moving through it. It doesn't pear have had any any sanctions.

1204
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 12: Stories of sexual assaults, as you said, of racist harassment

1205
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 12: that I really don't know, actually parted the student last

1206
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 12: summer for very threatening behavior and the very nuxt square

1207
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 12: he was in my class.

1208
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's yeah. The only thing that sort of

1209
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 2: they've jump to defend is capital, I guess, or in

1210
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 2: this case the sort of administrators of the university. And

1211
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 2: so this this could potentially play out for months. What's

1212
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:01,599
Speaker 2: the and it seems like everyone has accepting responsibility such

1213
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 2: a strange word, because like, what's what happened is what's

1214
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 2: a question? Really not who's responsible for it? So much? Right,

1215
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 2: Like you can accept responsibility for doing what was a

1216
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 2: protected First Amendment activity, but like you obviously can't accept

1217
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:21,559
Speaker 2: responsibility for assault if you didn't assault somebody. But given

1218
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 2: that no one.

1219
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 12: If sixty seven students had assaulted chance sort of.

1220
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 11: You would think that national Yeah, that would have been yeah,

1221
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 11: that would have been something I think.

1222
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a beat down. But that didn't happen.

1223
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 2: So what's the plan for defense, I guess is each case,

1224
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 2: like an individual case, can they mount. Can people mount

1225
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,640
Speaker 2: a joint defense like the j twenty one people did

1226
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 2: in DC? Do we know yet? How does this work?

1227
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 11: I'm not sure we entirely know yet. I think the

1228
01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 11: university can make the decision to consolidate cases that share evidence.

1229
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 11: I don't believe they've made that determination yet. I think

1230
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 11: what they are trying to do now, and this sort

1231
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 11: of leads into another part that I think represents a

1232
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 11: degree of sort of apathy, border on bordering on cruelty

1233
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 11: of this process is that we've identified at least eighteen

1234
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 11: graduate students who were either not physically present at all

1235
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,679
Speaker 11: or had merely registered for the event without even knowing

1236
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 11: that this would take place, and those people have all

1237
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 11: been charged with the exact same things that everyone who

1238
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 11: was intentionally part of the protest has been. So we

1239
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 11: think that we're at the individual stage where they are

1240
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 11: trying to kind of they know that they they're well

1241
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 11: aware that they caught a bunch of people that had

1242
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 11: no involvement in this. But we think that we're using

1243
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 11: really these individual meetings to figure out who those people

1244
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 11: are to the best of their ability, and perhaps further

1245
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 11: down the line, they may decide to try to consolidate

1246
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 11: these cases to expedite the process. But it's it's hard

1247
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,880
Speaker 11: to say for sure. The again, this the the important

1248
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 11: aspect of this process is the fact that almost every

1249
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 11: element of it, in every step and how that is

1250
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,799
Speaker 11: carried out, is entirely at the discretion of a handful

1251
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:22,799
Speaker 11: of university administrators. There's no real appeal outside of the system,

1252
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 11: there's no real accountability outside of the system, so they

1253
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:32,639
Speaker 11: can simply implement these things, you know, as as they

1254
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 11: see fit.

1255
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: I mean this there was.

1256
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 11: When this eventually first broke there were some former graduate

1257
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 11: students who run on an old radical uc Twitter account

1258
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 11: who shared some write ups from cases of sit ins

1259
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,720
Speaker 11: that were charged under the same process, I believe at

1260
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 11: Berkeley a couple of years ago, and in that one

1261
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 11: the administrators at the Berkeley campus actually went as far

1262
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 11: as to edit the code of conduct during the process.

1263
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 2: Surely you're not responsible for like x post facto edits

1264
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 2: of the code of conduct or were they.

1265
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 11: They were, Well, this was primarily in you know, in

1266
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 11: all fairness, if they deserve any of this was that

1267
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 11: particular incident was kind of a logistical thing. So it

1268
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 11: was it was whether or not certain aspects of the

1269
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 11: process could be waived or could be could be extended.

1270
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 11: The deadline could be extended, and someone who didn't have

1271
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 11: the authority to extend it did And when they were

1272
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 11: called on that, they edited the code of conduct after

1273
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 11: the fact to say that, Okay, a designee can extend

1274
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 11: the deadline for you know, how this process proceeds. So

1275
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 11: it wasn't that they invented a rule to charge someone

1276
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 11: under but they did edit their own due processes they

1277
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:51,679
Speaker 11: went along.

1278
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so you're you might be up against a

1279
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 2: moving target.

1280
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 8: So to speak.

1281
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 2: Did they identify everybody like did? Because I'm assuming people

1282
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 2: didn't use their legal names to register, Like, how were

1283
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 2: they able to identify some of the people to clearly

1284
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 2: the people who were just there as undergraduate alumni and

1285
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 2: happened to be graduate students probably did use their real names.

1286
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 2: But do you know how else said in five people.

1287
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,240
Speaker 11: Well, I think they did. You know some people did?

1288
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:21,680
Speaker 11: I I assume that I was taught you with my

1289
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 11: real name on the registration and that was simply because I,

1290
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 11: you know, some some people decided to use different names.

1291
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:36,080
Speaker 11: I U decided, after weighing the frozen cons that I

1292
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 11: decided that it was. You know, I figured that there

1293
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 11: might be it might be a worse situation if that was,

1294
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 11: you know, unraveled, and I didn't think that. Obviously I

1295
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 11: had no plans of assaulting someone, and I did not

1296
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,759
Speaker 11: assault anyone, So yeah, I had no reason to expect

1297
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 11: that perhaps I needed to take that level of precaution

1298
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 11: with this kind of a peaceful protest action. But we

1299
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 11: believe that they merrily got the names of who did

1300
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 11: who who they'd sided charge from simply registration lists. But

1301
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 11: again the fact and there was a sign in at

1302
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 11: this event where you picked up a name tag, and

1303
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 11: you know, it was kind of a gate. You couldn't

1304
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 11: really get in without doing that. But they still gave

1305
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 11: charges to people who actually, we know for a fact

1306
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 11: were not physically present and have been able to prove

1307
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 11: that they were not physically present. So it doesn't seem

1308
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 11: that they even bothered to consult, at least initially, the

1309
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 11: actual sign in list of people who actually showed up

1310
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 11: and checked in, which is also a bit strange. But yeah,

1311
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:41,080
Speaker 11: it seems to be a very haphazard process so far.

1312
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 11: There are people who have been charged who weren't there.

1313
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 11: There are people who were there who haven't you know,

1314
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 11: necessarily been identified at this point in time. So it's

1315
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 11: it's it's a little bit of a mystery.

1316
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 12: Yeah, and we'd love to find out too, because you know,

1317
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 12: it's day for some for some reason, we're able to

1318
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 12: determine use seen union lists will be a massive.

1319
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then already it seems like an unfair labor

1320
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 2: practice and a violation of like First Amendment rights and

1321
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:18,560
Speaker 2: protected First Amendment speech, and jeez, it's yeah, it just

1322
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 2: seems that they're sort of half passing this thing which

1323
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 2: could have devastating consequences for some people, and they they've

1324
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 2: they've just kind of thrown a wide net and sort

1325
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 2: of I guess trying to work out after the fact

1326
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 2: what to do with this. Has it had like a

1327
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 2: chilling effect on on campus organizing on protesting their ongoing

1328
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 2: contract violations.

1329
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 12: No, you can't stare us with sticking the union. Ironically,

1330
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:53,520
Speaker 12: as many listeners ably aware from listening to earlier episodes

1331
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 12: of your podcast, you know, they have a lot of

1332
01:24:55,600 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 12: tension on campus between the socials, ACI answers and the

1333
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 12: stand you know, getting back to the strike and even

1334
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 12: and they have actually gotten are substantially worse in the

1335
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 12: last couple of months based on the vacancy elections that

1336
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 12: are in Peopril. This ironically seems to be a huge

1337
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 12: miscalculation on the part of the university because a lot

1338
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 12: of those issues that they haven't gone away have been

1339
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 12: absolutely subsumed in the you know, the injury to one's

1340
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 12: an injury of mentality, so that there's a great amount

1341
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 12: of solidarity. But going into the summer, I don't think

1342
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 12: any work around campus really expected.

1343
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's excellent, that's great to hear. So talking of solidarity,

1344
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 2: I guess what can people do to help, Like it

1345
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 2: seems like do you have a legal defense fund? And

1346
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 2: if you're even allowed to have a lawyer? Is there

1347
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 2: something they can sign? Is there someone they can write

1348
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 2: to go ahead?

1349
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 12: Absolutely?

1350
01:25:58,040 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 8: So there is a.

1351
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 12: Petition around for a kind of students, faculty and community members.

1352
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:10,639
Speaker 12: The address to that is bit dot l Y slash

1353
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 12: U c SB drop the charges.

1354
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 11: One word all lowercase, all our case, Yeah, anything else

1355
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 11: like you would you plan like marches and pigots and

1356
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 11: stuff as the process continues that people could join. Yeah, definitely,

1357
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 11: And and if if you sign that petition, that's one

1358
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 11: way where so the petition sort of has the dual

1359
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 11: goal of of sort of getting you know, demonstrating uh

1360
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 11: to the administration that there's a wide level of awareness

1361
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 11: of this issue and concern over this issue, but also

1362
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 11: to make sure that anyone who wants to be involved

1363
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 11: in any way that they're able to support us, will

1364
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 11: be able to be kept in the loops. So if

1365
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 11: you use an email the address that you actually read

1366
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 11: when you sign the petition, you will certainly hear about

1367
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 11: any actions that we have. We are still very much

1368
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 11: in the early planning stages. As as Tom alluded to earlier,

1369
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 11: there is you know, a certain as there appears to

1370
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 11: be a certain aspect of strategizing here where the charges

1371
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 11: were given right at the point where campus becomes the

1372
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 11: least populated potentially of any time throughout the whole year

1373
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,240
Speaker 11: except perhaps Christmas. But you know, there's still plenty of

1374
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 11: graduate students here. They are all, you know, just as

1375
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 11: shocked as we are to see this unfolding. So I

1376
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 11: think we can definitely plan for, you know, some kind

1377
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 11: of actions to take place this summer.

1378
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 8: Nice.

1379
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, and maybe we'll get some more student conduct.

1380
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 2: Violations, yeah, he be good. If alumni, if if people

1381
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 2: are alumni, Like I know a decent number of UC

1382
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 2: alumni listen, and they reached out when we talked about

1383
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 2: the strike that it would be great if those people

1384
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 2: could leverage that status because they U SEE goes hard

1385
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 2: on alumni for donations and they've stopped calling me now

1386
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 2: they know I'm poor. But I think those of you

1387
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 2: who the u SEE is still calling for the nations,

1388
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:07,840
Speaker 2: you know, that would be a good time to raise

1389
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 2: this or you know, you can email or whatever, an

1390
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 2: email the alumni office. But yeah, it's this is obscene

1391
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 2: and ridiculous and obviously like a continuation of union busting

1392
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:23,839
Speaker 2: and their fundamental refusal to acknowledge student workers as workers

1393
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:28,600
Speaker 2: apparently and only see people as students. And so, is

1394
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 2: there anything else you want people to know about this?

1395
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 2: You anything else you'd like people to do to show

1396
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 2: solidarity before we wrap up?

1397
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 11: I think the big thing is just, you know, sign

1398
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 11: the petition that will help you, you know, kind of

1399
01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 11: stay in the loop, especially if you're kind of in

1400
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 11: the local area and are able to join us in

1401
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 11: solidarity for any protests. Yeah. Again, if you're a UC

1402
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 11: alum of any kind, certainly make your thoughts known to

1403
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 11: UCSD because apart from I would say that the two people,

1404
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 11: the two groups of people who have the most power

1405
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 11: to act in decent numbers in the situation our professors

1406
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:09,120
Speaker 11: in alumni and and so that would be Yeah, like

1407
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 11: what you said, that's a huge a huge would be

1408
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 11: a huge point of support. Other than that, I think

1409
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 11: just the way, you know, I've I've been here for

1410
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 11: almost six full years now, and you know I've four

1411
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 11: of those were without a union. I'm a student researcher,

1412
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 11: so our union is brand new, and you can go

1413
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,160
Speaker 11: back to November episode to hear that whole story. But

1414
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 11: my point is that, you know, before we had this

1415
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 11: kind of network and this kind of collective organization to

1416
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,880
Speaker 11: protect our rights, a lot of you know, I've seen

1417
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 11: a lot of friends who, through no fault of their own,

1418
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 11: ended up in some kind of you know, one sided

1419
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 11: process where it's them versus the bureaucracy, whether that's you know,

1420
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:56,360
Speaker 11: they're a bad relationship with their professor or or you know,

1421
01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 11: any number of things that might have come up along

1422
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 11: the way help issues leading to lower you know, not

1423
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 11: not finishing work on time and you know, getting on

1424
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 11: the bad side of advisors or anything like that. You know,

1425
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,560
Speaker 11: it is very easy in the status quo of the

1426
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 11: way the large university works to fall through the cracks

1427
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 11: and to have a bureaucracy act in secrecy to just

1428
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 11: simply kind of remove you without anyone really saying a word.

1429
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,599
Speaker 11: So I think the most important thing is to keep

1430
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 11: eyes on this, to make sure the university knows that

1431
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:29,920
Speaker 11: people are watching. That they can try to bring this

1432
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 11: process against us, but it is not going to be

1433
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 11: a pleasant experience because you know, the public and and

1434
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 11: the the the workers here in the community here are

1435
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 11: going to be watching and they're going to be supporting us.

1436
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,680
Speaker 11: So I think just just keep keep an eye on

1437
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 11: the situation if you can, if it's something that that

1438
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 11: you're interested in and able to do, and that that's

1439
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:53,280
Speaker 11: really the biggest way I think to support us.

1440
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 12: I will also say that if you are a U

1441
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:01,759
Speaker 12: see men in the state line and you see San Diego,

1442
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 12: the easiest way to prevent future alumni events from being

1443
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 12: disrupted actually out of the contract.

1444
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 2: Yes, that would be a fantastic idea. Yeah, I do

1445
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 2: know several professors listen, so it's time to do something. Hopefully, Yeah,

1446
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 2: hopefully they will do something in solidarity. But I know

1447
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 2: a few of them listen and have reached out before. Well,

1448
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:28,799
Speaker 2: thank you very much. I'm sorry this shit is happening

1449
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:33,400
Speaker 2: to you. We will keep people updated as the long

1450
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 2: process continues. But yeah, I hope, I hope you can

1451
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:38,720
Speaker 2: enjoy your summer without teaching a little bit, without this

1452
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 2: hanging over you.

1453
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 11: We'll try it. That's kind of my motivation is they

1454
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 11: you know, they're using it as a little bit of

1455
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 11: a psychological warfare in terms of live organizing. So I

1456
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 11: will just simply choose not to let it bother me,

1457
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 11: at least as much as I can.

1458
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, thank you very much, Thanks James, thank you.

1459
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,599
Speaker 10: Welcome to take It Happened Here, a podcast that now

1460
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 10: more than ever, is about things falling apart. It's been

1461
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 10: roughly one year since the DABS decision has annihilated what

1462
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:28,080
Speaker 10: was left of the protection for legal abortions in this country,

1463
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:35,080
Speaker 10: and things have gotten enormously worse in ways that most

1464
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 10: people are essentially attempting to ignore or hide from. There are, however,

1465
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 10: a lot of people who cannot essentially run from the

1466
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 10: absolute horror that has been unleashed in this country. And yeah,

1467
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 10: I'm going to be talking today and tomorrow with one

1468
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 10: of those people who is Crystals has the triple crown

1469
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:59,879
Speaker 10: of abortion work of being an abortion worker, a union organizer,

1470
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 10: and on the on the board of an abortion fund. Yeah,

1471
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 10: welcome to the show, Crystal, and I'm sorry.

1472
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 13: You're sorry, thank you, thank you so much. Mea, it's

1473
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 13: really nice to be here again. I had a lot

1474
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 13: of fun last time, and it's nice to be talking

1475
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 13: to you again, even though I only have really horrible Yeah,

1476
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 13: thanks to say for the most part though, there are

1477
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:30,000
Speaker 13: some good things, but it's mostly really awful.

1478
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 10: Yeah. So I guess, I guess that's where I want

1479
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 10: to start, is it's well, okay, I think I'm pretty

1480
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 10: sure that so the day this is coming out, it's

1481
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 10: going to be I think two days before the anniversary

1482
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 10: of Dobbs, and I wanted to, I guess first just

1483
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 10: ask what it's been like emotionally before we get to

1484
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 10: the sort of like more material consequences of it, if

1485
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 10: that's all right.

1486
01:33:57,200 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 13: Yeah, So, as abortion worker, this has been an incredibly

1487
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 13: difficult year. And that's that's with the context that things

1488
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 13: were not good before last June twenty fourth, twenty twenty two,

1489
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 13: things were not good before then, so you know, we

1490
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:19,880
Speaker 13: were we were really running up against this this impending

1491
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,920
Speaker 13: decision that we knew was going to happen, and then

1492
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 13: it ended up happening, and then it was really horrible.

1493
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 13: And honestly, it's been horrible every single day since, and

1494
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 13: it's just gets more horrible every single week. And that's

1495
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:38,479
Speaker 13: you know, I sound so negative saying that, I know,

1496
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 13: but I just know that I'm saying that knowing that

1497
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 13: there's so many amazing people who are doing like abortion

1498
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 13: advocacy and abortion care work and offering abortion services and

1499
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 13: practical support for abortion, and it has just been an

1500
01:34:55,680 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 13: incredibly heavy year for us. We've seen, we've all witnessed

1501
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 13: a lot in the last year, and we're all carrying

1502
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 13: a lot, and it's it's it's just hard. And I'm

1503
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 13: really grateful for everyone that I work with and that

1504
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:19,479
Speaker 13: I'm in community with, but it's it's been traumatizing. I

1505
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,640
Speaker 13: know that, you know, it's really easy to say. I

1506
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 13: think like, oh, you know, this is traumatic, and that's traumatic,

1507
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 13: But I don't know what else, what other word to

1508
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 13: use to having to having had witnessed everything that we've

1509
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:36,559
Speaker 13: witnessed in the last year and to know that there's

1510
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:38,800
Speaker 13: no end in sight. It is incredibly traumatic. It's like

1511
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:41,360
Speaker 13: a national trauma. We're all sharing it together.

1512
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, I guess we should get into sort of

1513
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 10: what the things that you've been seeing have looked like.

1514
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 10: And I think one of the best ways to do this,

1515
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 10: I think is by just talking about like what the

1516
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:58,959
Speaker 10: process is like of trying to get someone in abortion,

1517
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 10: because it's gotten so much harder and so much more dangerous.

1518
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 8: Very rapidly.

1519
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1520
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:10,960
Speaker 13: Absolutely, the things have changed a lot in the last year,

1521
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,679
Speaker 13: because you know, if we're if we're starting from when

1522
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 13: things really hit the fan June twenty fourth, twenty twenty two,

1523
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 13: even though things were getting worse before that, because you know,

1524
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 13: for example, there was the band in Texas that started

1525
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 13: on September first and in twenty twenty one, so that

1526
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:31,599
Speaker 13: you know, things I saw a lot in my head.

1527
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 13: If I can point like when did I really know

1528
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 13: that we were we were fucked and we were going

1529
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 13: to like we were going to see the worst outcome,

1530
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 13: I would say on September first, twenty twenty one.

1531
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 5: But.

1532
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:49,000
Speaker 13: We saw the initial trigger bands go into effect immediately

1533
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 13: after the Dobbs decision, So you know, like for example, Texas,

1534
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 13: the bands went into effect immediately. There were other states

1535
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:58,440
Speaker 13: that it was a little bit more delayed, like for example, Ohio.

1536
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 13: And then there's also been a lot of back and

1537
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 13: forth because some states and which they're having bands now

1538
01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 13: those are currently paused and they're being worked through the

1539
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 13: legal system, and o there are new bands. There's pretty

1540
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 13: much been a new band, it feels like pretty much

1541
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,040
Speaker 13: every week, to the point where I know that I

1542
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 13: just named a couple of states just now, and just

1543
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,719
Speaker 13: to be cautious, I just want to say that, you know, look,

1544
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:22,960
Speaker 13: you can go to like abortionfinder dot org or I

1545
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:25,719
Speaker 13: need ana dot Com and like look up your state

1546
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:28,679
Speaker 13: to see, you know, if you have access in your state.

1547
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 13: It changes so frequently that you really do have to

1548
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 13: kind of rely on those reliable websites like abortion Finder

1549
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 13: and I need an a to really make sure that

1550
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 13: you're up to date. So you know, don't like if

1551
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:42,479
Speaker 13: I mentioned a state, you know, just it might have

1552
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 13: been there might have been something in effect months ago

1553
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:46,679
Speaker 13: and I'm just like alluding to it. So just definitely

1554
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 13: rely on those resources that exist to see what's up

1555
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 13: to date now. But yeah, things have been incredibly back

1556
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 13: and forth for a lot of states in the last year.

1557
01:37:55,640 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 13: And it's it's just there are holes in access, deserts

1558
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 13: and access that just keep widening and widening and widening.

1559
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:08,880
Speaker 13: The most devastating being recently this This was just this

1560
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 13: was a really bad day for for me and and

1561
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 13: a lot of my coworkers when there was the vote

1562
01:38:16,240 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 13: in Florida, and and the Florida Band is not yet

1563
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 13: an effect, but we'll eventually be going into effect. And

1564
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:28,719
Speaker 13: and that was really like one of the last places

1565
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 13: that you could access an abortion in the Southeast. So

1566
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:34,360
Speaker 13: now when you look at a map, which I do

1567
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 13: a lot, I I now have to look at a

1568
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:41,680
Speaker 13: map every single day for work and look at like

1569
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 13: you know, individual state maps, and like I'm on Google

1570
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 13: Maps constantly. But there there's there are places where you

1571
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 13: have no choice but to travel to get an abortion

1572
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 13: or access abortion services online if that is possible for you,

1573
01:38:56,520 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 13: and you know there there are resources available where if

1574
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 13: you as an individual need an abortion and you keep

1575
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:10,200
Speaker 13: looking and you search and you reach out to people,

1576
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 13: those resources are out there, you know. So practical support

1577
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 13: groups exist, funding exists, Clinics and service providers will bend

1578
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 13: over backwards to get you to your appointment and help

1579
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:26,240
Speaker 13: you access these services, so you know there is help

1580
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:31,440
Speaker 13: out there, but it is it's really difficult, and it's

1581
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 13: it takes a lot of work to access an appointment.

1582
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:41,959
Speaker 13: So everything's it takes longer to get to an appointment,

1583
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 13: it takes you have to travel further, you end up

1584
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:47,519
Speaker 13: paying so much more money, Like everything is just so

1585
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 13: much more expensive than it was a year ago, because

1586
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 13: now you're not just paying, you know, for the procedure

1587
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 13: cost and then maybe like a little bit of gas

1588
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 13: money to the appointment. You're having to figure out plane tickets, hotels,

1589
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,479
Speaker 13: ask money for whatever, like really long distances. I've seen

1590
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 13: patients driving twelve hours to get to an appointment. Yeah,

1591
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:12,040
Speaker 13: And I can talk more about like what that process

1592
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:13,680
Speaker 13: looks like too, but I guess I just wanted to

1593
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 13: give like a general overview of it's just getting harder

1594
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 13: to access, longer distances traveling, and and and more expensive.

1595
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,800
Speaker 13: And luckily there is people. There are people there to

1596
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 13: help and there is support, but it requires a ton

1597
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 13: of work, a ton a ton of work in order

1598
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 13: to make sure that people are getting the health care

1599
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:38,800
Speaker 13: that they need.

1600
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:44,519
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I guess, well, Okay, two things. One, I

1601
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 10: want to I want to start the abortion fund plug

1602
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 10: like right here, because you know, yeah, yeah, as the

1603
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 10: cost of this increase is that means, you know, like

1604
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 10: abortion funds need more money in order to be able

1605
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,800
Speaker 10: to keep doing this because every dollar of it they

1606
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,880
Speaker 10: don't have is you know, potentially is like I'm not

1607
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 10: even touched, Like is another person who's not gonna be

1608
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 10: able to get an abortion?

1609
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:11,400
Speaker 13: Yeah, every every dollar matters. Yeah, And and I know

1610
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:13,280
Speaker 13: that I feel like a lot of leftists sometimes get

1611
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:15,960
Speaker 13: a little tired of hearing about, oh, donate to your

1612
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:18,840
Speaker 13: abortion foot, donate to an abortion fund, because like they're like, oh, this,

1613
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:23,439
Speaker 13: this is not radical. But abortion funds are the only

1614
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:27,759
Speaker 13: way in which abortions are happening right now because it costs,

1615
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:29,840
Speaker 13: like you might have to spend like two thousand to

1616
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:32,200
Speaker 13: three thousand dollars on a person sometimes in order to

1617
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 13: make sure that they get healthcare. And that's just one person.

1618
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 13: So the only reason that abortions are still happening is

1619
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:42,120
Speaker 13: because one people are putting that work in and make

1620
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 13: sure that they happen, and like, you know, those people

1621
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 13: are amazing and also pay, like people seeking healthcare are amazing.

1622
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:52,040
Speaker 13: They're incredibly brave to be doing what they're doing, to

1623
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:54,599
Speaker 13: be working so hard to get healthcare, to be navigating

1624
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 13: all of these obstacles that you have to be like,

1625
01:41:56,240 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 13: that's what you have to be strong to do that.

1626
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 13: That's an incredibly brave thing to do, having to fly

1627
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 13: in an airplane if you've never flown before to access

1628
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:06,599
Speaker 13: health care that you know you need. Like you're you're

1629
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 13: being really strong and you're being amazing, but you don't

1630
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 13: you shouldn't have to do that. And so it's a

1631
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,840
Speaker 13: lot of money. So thank god that the money is there,

1632
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:19,880
Speaker 13: because if the money wasn't there, then people would not

1633
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 13: be able to be helped. So I know that, like

1634
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:23,760
Speaker 13: you know, oh, donate to abortion fund, don'tate to an

1635
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 13: abortion pun but really, like if you want people to

1636
01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:29,640
Speaker 13: continue to get abortions now, not just waiting until like

1637
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 13: November in an election, then you need to make sure

1638
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:33,800
Speaker 13: that the money is there for people to do that

1639
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:35,120
Speaker 13: because it is expensive.

1640
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:37,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, we're talking to something like two or three thousand dollars, right,

1641
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 10: Can you person listening to this, could you right now

1642
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:44,680
Speaker 10: spend three thousand dollars or something and be fine?

1643
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 3: Right?

1644
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:48,519
Speaker 10: And the answer is probably not, but and you know,

1645
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:50,639
Speaker 10: and there's a there are like a lot of people

1646
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 10: in this country who need abortions, who are like way

1647
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:54,800
Speaker 10: less well off than you are, Like that is a

1648
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:56,640
Speaker 10: shit tone of like that that is a lot of

1649
01:42:56,640 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 10: money for me, like podcaster, that is, you know, a

1650
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:04,760
Speaker 10: crippling amount of money for a lot of the people

1651
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 10: who need this. And I don't know, I mean, I

1652
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:12,400
Speaker 10: think there's something really bleak about the where society is structured,

1653
01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:15,000
Speaker 10: where your freedom and your bodily autonomy are dependent on

1654
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:20,240
Speaker 10: having money. But that's basically where we're at, right Like

1655
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:23,880
Speaker 10: that's 'eah's that's the way the system works right now.

1656
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 13: And yeah, there's a part of me that like doesn't

1657
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 13: want to lean in and like I mean, like you know,

1658
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:30,800
Speaker 13: I'm I'm a socialist. I don't want to be like, oh,

1659
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,120
Speaker 13: you know, money, money, money, but like that is the

1660
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:36,760
Speaker 13: only reason people are getting healthcare is because there is

1661
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:40,720
Speaker 13: money available, and people are banding together to pool that

1662
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:42,960
Speaker 13: money to make it available to people who need it.

1663
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 13: So I'm just like, thank god, I'm so glad because

1664
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 13: otherwise I would not be able to get people to

1665
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 13: their appointments. And I can like talk out that process too,

1666
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 13: like you know, what does it look like now?

1667
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, let's yeah, let's actually go through this.

1668
01:43:58,520 --> 01:43:58,760
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1669
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 13: I want to start off with like what I was

1670
01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 13: when I started. So I've been working in abortion care

1671
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 13: for six years now, and when I started, I was

1672
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:12,120
Speaker 13: working in a call center and I would schedule appointments.

1673
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:16,280
Speaker 13: So I would get a call and I'd collect information

1674
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 13: and I would book the appointment and i'd say, you know,

1675
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,800
Speaker 13: thank you for as you know, for reaching out to

1676
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:25,559
Speaker 13: us for your services, and we will see you at

1677
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,440
Speaker 13: your appointment. And you know, the calls were long because

1678
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 13: you know, we'd have to work out financial assistance. And

1679
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:35,559
Speaker 13: then also abortion care is often just like a really

1680
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 13: intimate type of healthcare to be accessing, so there's a

1681
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,840
Speaker 13: lot of factors sometimes to discuss with the person that

1682
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:46,880
Speaker 13: was accessing services, and it could be really complicated with

1683
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:50,599
Speaker 13: all of those factors. So you know, like it's always

1684
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 13: been pretty labor intensive to schedule someone sometimes, but it

1685
01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:01,599
Speaker 13: was it was fairly you know, fairly short phone call

1686
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:03,559
Speaker 13: for the most part most of the time, and then

1687
01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:05,360
Speaker 13: you just get somebody scheduled and then you move on

1688
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:09,360
Speaker 13: and you schedule someone else. And that was six years ago.

1689
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:12,720
Speaker 13: For me. And I'm not saying that more difficult situations

1690
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:17,120
Speaker 13: didn't come up, because of course abortion access was not

1691
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:20,719
Speaker 13: good six years ago either, but the way in which

1692
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:24,240
Speaker 13: it's changed is so marked, and I feel like there's

1693
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 13: so many people have witnesses where it went from from

1694
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:33,840
Speaker 13: that to it taking weeks to work with one individual

1695
01:45:34,160 --> 01:45:36,800
Speaker 13: to get them to an appointment because there is no

1696
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:46,479
Speaker 13: clinic within eight hours driving distance to them, and so

1697
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,160
Speaker 13: the whole intake process and the whole just like getting

1698
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 13: the funds together, I guess I'll just walk you through

1699
01:45:51,080 --> 01:45:53,320
Speaker 13: it because I just I don't even know how else

1700
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:57,439
Speaker 13: to relate. So let's say, just like hypothetically, you know,

1701
01:45:57,479 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 13: you're an individual who is living in a band state

1702
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:04,479
Speaker 13: and they're the closest actual brick and mortar abortion clinic

1703
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:08,280
Speaker 13: to is nine hours away, which is the situation for

1704
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,080
Speaker 13: so many people that I talk to and that are

1705
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 13: living in the United States. And let's say you don't

1706
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 13: have a car, and you have children, and you don't

1707
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:21,120
Speaker 13: want everybody to know your business, so you like, you

1708
01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:23,000
Speaker 13: don't want everybody in your family knowing that you need

1709
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 13: an abortion and that you're looking for that type of

1710
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:27,840
Speaker 13: health care, so you're trying to do what you can

1711
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:32,240
Speaker 13: by yourself, and you're googling, and you're looking at different resources.

1712
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:37,280
Speaker 13: And what I witness a lot as a healthcare worker

1713
01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:40,000
Speaker 13: helping someone through this process is there's a lot of

1714
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 13: dead ends when people are trying to find someone that

1715
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 13: can provide them with those abortion services. They you know,

1716
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:47,920
Speaker 13: they're looking at the clinics that are close to them,

1717
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 13: and they're seeing that they're nine hours away and they

1718
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 13: can't get to them. They're looking up fight tickets and

1719
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 13: they're seeing it's like eight hundred dollars for their and

1720
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:56,080
Speaker 13: back and they can't afford that on top of the

1721
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:59,439
Speaker 13: procedure cost. And let's just say hypothetically they're early in

1722
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 13: the pregnancy and the procedure might cost maybe four hundred,

1723
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 13: five hundred and six hundred dollars, which is still a

1724
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:07,640
Speaker 13: lot of money. That's still a lot of money, So

1725
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 13: I don't want to pretend like that's not But on

1726
01:47:11,439 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 13: top of that, then there's also the plane tickets, trying

1727
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:17,280
Speaker 13: to find a way to the airport and all of that,

1728
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 13: and they're just reaching a lot of dead ends like

1729
01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:22,479
Speaker 13: I can't possibly go here, and I can't possibly go here,

1730
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 13: and okay, like maybe I can go online and order

1731
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 13: some medication, but it might not arrive for several weeks,

1732
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 13: and what if it doesn't arrive? I mean, that's like

1733
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:33,840
Speaker 13: a really scary thing to be doing, like knowing you

1734
01:47:33,880 --> 01:47:37,639
Speaker 13: need healthcare and knowing that you're relying on the mail

1735
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:40,600
Speaker 13: and like hoping that you get your packet and that

1736
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,600
Speaker 13: you can trust wherever you're purchasing the medication from. And

1737
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:45,840
Speaker 13: if you can't even really like let's say that you're

1738
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 13: you're further along and you may be are like twenty weeks,

1739
01:47:51,080 --> 01:47:53,920
Speaker 13: and your options are incredibly more limited, and you're paying

1740
01:47:53,960 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 13: a lot more if you don't have insurance coverage with

1741
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 13: most people don't, so you're paying like maybe up to

1742
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:04,360
Speaker 13: on like two thousand and three thousand, four thousand for

1743
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:09,519
Speaker 13: a procedure. And you just need help, and you need

1744
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:12,200
Speaker 13: to ask for help, which is already like a not

1745
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:15,040
Speaker 13: a good spot to be in because you're accessing health

1746
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,040
Speaker 13: care and you have no choice but to ask for

1747
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 13: help and you shouldn't have to.

1748
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:22,440
Speaker 10: That's really fucking hard, right, Like I mean, I think

1749
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:24,920
Speaker 10: on an intellectual level, I think everyone has an experience

1750
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:26,240
Speaker 10: which is how hard it is to ask for help

1751
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:29,840
Speaker 10: for stuff that's like incredibly minor, and then you're doing

1752
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:37,439
Speaker 10: this for a really intimate, like healthcare decision, Yeah.

1753
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 13: Like super personal, like your decision might be based on

1754
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 13: like a bunch of factors that are just like really

1755
01:48:42,280 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 13: personal for you. And you wish you didn't have to

1756
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:46,639
Speaker 13: tell people, or you wish you didn't have to talk

1757
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 13: to so many people about an appointment because you know,

1758
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,240
Speaker 13: for most healthcare appointments, even though healthcare in general is

1759
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:55,519
Speaker 13: not easy to access, you just call and you schedule

1760
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 13: the appointment and maybe you have to pay a copay

1761
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:00,960
Speaker 13: and that's annoying, and then maybe the appoint is four

1762
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 13: months out and that's awful too, But you know, it's

1763
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:11,479
Speaker 13: this just makes everything worse for the individual. So let's

1764
01:49:11,479 --> 01:49:13,040
Speaker 13: just say, like, you know, they keep trying, and they

1765
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 13: keep trying, and they keep looking, and you know, let's

1766
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 13: say they get to me, and I'm somebody who I do.

1767
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:21,880
Speaker 13: I do scheduling now for patients who need to travel,

1768
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 13: and I help them get financial assistance for the cost

1769
01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 13: of travel and for their appointment. So a lot of

1770
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 13: times when I get in touch with someone, they've already

1771
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:35,720
Speaker 13: encountered so many dead ends. And when I am not

1772
01:49:36,160 --> 01:49:39,559
Speaker 13: the dead end. They're filled with so much relief that

1773
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:42,479
Speaker 13: a lot of times this happens almost every day now,

1774
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,560
Speaker 13: someone will get in touch with me and they'll just

1775
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:49,840
Speaker 13: start crying when I tell them that I can help them.

1776
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 13: And that is not a good feeling, because I feel

1777
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:56,240
Speaker 13: like maybe in like other types of work, or maybe

1778
01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:59,519
Speaker 13: even like before, like maybe years ago, like when somebody

1779
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:02,639
Speaker 13: was like great, it might feel good, like, oh, I'm

1780
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,880
Speaker 13: so glad I can help them. But when someone who

1781
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:09,519
Speaker 13: is like a caregiver, a worker, somebody who needs health

1782
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 13: care and they're scared and they're crying out of relief,

1783
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:15,559
Speaker 13: it does not feel good. It makes me feel really

1784
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,759
Speaker 13: horrible because they have already been robbed of their dignity

1785
01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:22,000
Speaker 13: by the time that I talk to them, and I

1786
01:50:22,040 --> 01:50:26,760
Speaker 13: hate that. It's just it's disgusting that they've already been

1787
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:32,760
Speaker 13: put in this situation that is dehumanizing, and I just

1788
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 13: it doesn't feel good when they cry in relief. It

1789
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:39,800
Speaker 13: just does not feel good. So, just continuing this the

1790
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:44,320
Speaker 13: tale of you know, this patient accessing an appointment. So

1791
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 13: so let's say you know they can get an appointment

1792
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,559
Speaker 13: in a clinic, it's not in their state because there's

1793
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:51,639
Speaker 13: no it's not legal to provide an abortion in their state,

1794
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:57,639
Speaker 13: so they have to travel two states away and get

1795
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 13: to the clinic. So the flight tickets are eight hundred

1796
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 13: dollars and the cost of the appointment is four hundred.

1797
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:08,879
Speaker 13: So already that's twelve hundred dollars, which luckily, I am

1798
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:12,760
Speaker 13: so grateful and glad that I have the ability to

1799
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:15,960
Speaker 13: arrange financial assistance for that, and I can work with

1800
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:21,759
Speaker 13: individuals to do that. Thank thank the Lord, like they honestly,

1801
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 13: I shouldn't, no, not thank the Lord, thank the people

1802
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:28,200
Speaker 13: the Lord. Yeah, yeah, like thank these people so much.

1803
01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:31,639
Speaker 13: I'm just like so glad they exist and they're there

1804
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:34,599
Speaker 13: and that they're such hard workers. Oh my god. But yeah,

1805
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:36,800
Speaker 13: So that's twelve hundred dollars that we can that we

1806
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:39,880
Speaker 13: can look into covering so that way the person pays

1807
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:42,240
Speaker 13: whatever they are capable of paying, even if that's nothing,

1808
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 13: because you know, some of these people like like they're

1809
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:49,120
Speaker 13: living paycheck to paycheck because they're taking care of their

1810
01:51:49,160 --> 01:51:52,720
Speaker 13: children and like their family is coming first. That is

1811
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 13: what is happening, is they are taking care of their

1812
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:58,160
Speaker 13: family and they are being a good caregiver. So the

1813
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:00,760
Speaker 13: you know, the money is going to food on the tape.

1814
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,479
Speaker 13: So that's that's like twelve hundred dollars. But then there's

1815
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:06,120
Speaker 13: a couple other things you have to factor in, is

1816
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:08,080
Speaker 13: like does this person need a hotel because that can

1817
01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:10,639
Speaker 13: be an additional what like one hundred and two hundred

1818
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:15,400
Speaker 13: depending And does this person have a car? Can they

1819
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:19,120
Speaker 13: pay for the gas money, especially if they're driving, because

1820
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 13: like let's say they can get to an airport, but

1821
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 13: the airport is still two hours away. You still need

1822
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:26,639
Speaker 13: gas money. You still have to park at the airport.

1823
01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:29,840
Speaker 13: You gotta pay for airport parking. And then you get

1824
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,599
Speaker 13: on the air You get on the airplane and you

1825
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 13: fly over to the state where your appointment is. You

1826
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 13: get off the airplane, and then there is surge pricing

1827
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:42,600
Speaker 13: for Lyft and Uber and let's say the Uber, it

1828
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:44,800
Speaker 13: can be anywhere from like maybe fifty dollars or one

1829
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 13: hundred dollars depending on what's going on. And that is

1830
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:50,639
Speaker 13: just more money that needs to be spent.

1831
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 10: The fact, the fact that they're going to hit by

1832
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:56,120
Speaker 10: fucking Uber surge prices is so monstrous.

1833
01:52:57,120 --> 01:53:00,120
Speaker 13: Yeah, And like airports in general, like like getting out

1834
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:02,759
Speaker 13: out of an airport using a ride shair is pretty terrible,

1835
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,639
Speaker 13: but yeah, you got to pay the surge pricing, so

1836
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:08,559
Speaker 13: and then you get to the clinic and then you

1837
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:10,800
Speaker 13: have your services, which is just really like when you're

1838
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:13,200
Speaker 13: accessing healthcare. I mean, we're all we all access healthcare.

1839
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 13: We're all human beings who need health care. Like, you

1840
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,520
Speaker 13: really want to be able to focus on that appointment

1841
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:21,280
Speaker 13: and the care you're getting, But at this point, they've

1842
01:53:21,280 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 13: already traveled, like they've been on a journey. So they

1843
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:26,040
Speaker 13: arrived to the appointment and get the health care that

1844
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:28,280
Speaker 13: really should have been what they should have been able

1845
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:31,759
Speaker 13: to focus on, and then they got to go back,

1846
01:53:32,040 --> 01:53:33,519
Speaker 13: so then they got to do the whole thing. They

1847
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 13: got through, go through airport security, get back, get the

1848
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:38,280
Speaker 13: uber from the airport, and then let's say they have

1849
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:41,040
Speaker 13: a two hour flight back, and that's I mean, that

1850
01:53:41,080 --> 01:53:43,400
Speaker 13: could be done all than one day, but sometimes it

1851
01:53:43,479 --> 01:53:46,559
Speaker 13: can't be, Like sometimes it's just not possible to do

1852
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:49,559
Speaker 13: all that in one day. And that's like another obstacle

1853
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 13: that I come across is that a lot a lot.

1854
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:54,479
Speaker 13: I would say, most of the patients I talk to

1855
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:57,600
Speaker 13: are already parents, so they're like, I have to be

1856
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 13: back that evening because I don't have childcare overnight, Like

1857
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:05,559
Speaker 13: I don't have overnight childcare. So then I'm like trying

1858
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:11,639
Speaker 13: to get them back the same evening because because they're

1859
01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:13,760
Speaker 13: a parent, and then like, can you imagine just like

1860
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 13: you know, just like imagine your own parents, like your

1861
01:54:17,120 --> 01:54:20,519
Speaker 13: own like mom just like zipping away for one day

1862
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:23,759
Speaker 13: to go get like a really simple health care procedure,

1863
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:25,760
Speaker 13: and then they have to like rush back and you're

1864
01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:29,560
Speaker 13: already in bed, and it's just so stressful. It's so

1865
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 13: stressful for the for the parent, for any any family

1866
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:36,800
Speaker 13: members that might be like kind of like sharing this

1867
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:40,720
Speaker 13: whole stressful experience with them, any friends, any loved ones.

1868
01:54:40,800 --> 01:54:42,160
Speaker 13: And it's just you have.

1869
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:43,360
Speaker 10: To find time off too.

1870
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:48,120
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, I didn't even get into that. Yeah, so

1871
01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:49,760
Speaker 13: I don't know, like I just I said a lot

1872
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:51,640
Speaker 13: of numbers just now, so I know, I started off

1873
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:53,240
Speaker 13: with twelve hundred, and then I tacked on a a

1874
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 13: bunch of extra things. Oh and I didn't mention that

1875
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 13: you're gonna have to eat that day, you know, like, yeah,

1876
01:54:56,920 --> 01:54:59,760
Speaker 13: you're in another state and you have to get food.

1877
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:04,360
Speaker 13: So like it easily for one person starts racking up

1878
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 13: until like over two thousand and that's why abortion ones

1879
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:14,440
Speaker 13: are really important. But that's also that's a lot. That's

1880
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 13: a lot, and that's a lot on top of like

1881
01:55:18,080 --> 01:55:24,760
Speaker 13: an intimate healthcare appointment. And you know, just just outlining

1882
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:29,760
Speaker 13: how much someone has to do to get to an appointment,

1883
01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:32,720
Speaker 13: there's even a couple other factors to consider too, because

1884
01:55:33,200 --> 01:55:36,520
Speaker 13: a lot of these people who are having to fly

1885
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 13: or drive these long distances to their appointment, they would

1886
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:44,320
Speaker 13: have never been in that situation otherwise. So you know,

1887
01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:46,680
Speaker 13: these are individuals who have never flown on a plane before,

1888
01:55:46,680 --> 01:55:48,560
Speaker 13: maybe because like they've just never been in a situation

1889
01:55:48,640 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 13: in which they needed to fly on a plane. They've

1890
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 13: always been able to drive to like vacations and everything,

1891
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:55,920
Speaker 13: like you know, like oh, family vacation, you drive maybe

1892
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:57,880
Speaker 13: like four hours and you know, you have fun, and

1893
01:55:57,920 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 13: you just don't want to go on a plane. It

1894
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:01,520
Speaker 13: makes you nervous. That's a lot of people live like that.

1895
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:03,880
Speaker 13: So all of a sudden, these people have no choice, like, oh,

1896
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:05,800
Speaker 13: you have to get on a plane and otherwise you're

1897
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:08,800
Speaker 13: gonna have to drive twelve thirteen hours. So they get

1898
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 13: on a plane and they're scared because they've never done

1899
01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:12,560
Speaker 13: it before. Because they're already stressed out that they're going

1900
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:16,880
Speaker 13: to a doctor's appointment, They're already stressed out that they're

1901
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 13: relying on basically strangers to get them there, which is

1902
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:22,480
Speaker 13: that's like a whole other topic is like you have

1903
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:25,839
Speaker 13: to rely on strangers, and that's you know, people shouldn't

1904
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 13: have to do that. And then also you have to

1905
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:34,000
Speaker 13: navigate an airport. So a lot of my job has

1906
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,560
Speaker 13: become looking at maps, Like I'm looking at a map,

1907
01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:38,360
Speaker 13: like how far away is this someone from a clinic?

1908
01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:40,600
Speaker 13: How far away are they from an airport? You know,

1909
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:43,240
Speaker 13: can they go here? Can they go here? But I'm

1910
01:56:43,240 --> 01:56:45,560
Speaker 13: also on the phone with people kind of describing how

1911
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 13: airports work, like here's what airport security looks like. People

1912
01:56:49,160 --> 01:56:51,240
Speaker 13: are afraid of TSA, and I don't blame them. I

1913
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:55,080
Speaker 13: fucking hate TSA. They're always passholes. Fuck them. They make

1914
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:58,440
Speaker 13: everything worse. You got to go through TSA and you

1915
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:00,520
Speaker 13: gotta yeah, I gotta know how to get your tickets,

1916
01:57:00,520 --> 01:57:02,080
Speaker 13: and you got to know how to where, you know,

1917
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:04,280
Speaker 13: to get to a terminal. A lot of people don't

1918
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:06,240
Speaker 13: like if you've never flown before, they might not know

1919
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:09,520
Speaker 13: that they're supposed to get on that little training you know,

1920
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:11,440
Speaker 13: you know what I'm talking about, Like you will train,

1921
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:13,520
Speaker 13: you go to your terminal, and like a lot of

1922
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:16,560
Speaker 13: people don't know that, and all of a sudden they

1923
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 13: have to find out really fast and I have to

1924
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 13: explain it. And that's part of their abortion care. Part

1925
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:25,400
Speaker 13: of people's abortion care is now talking them through an airport,

1926
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:35,920
Speaker 13: and that that has sucks. That's become like the daily experience.

1927
01:57:36,760 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 13: That's become the daily experience where it's like, yeah, six

1928
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:41,160
Speaker 13: years ago, these used to be like, Okay, I'm gonna

1929
01:57:41,160 --> 01:57:43,400
Speaker 13: bookr appointment. You're going to come in. Your appointment's going

1930
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:45,880
Speaker 13: to be maybe like I don't know, five hours, and

1931
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:48,480
Speaker 13: then you and then you leave and you drive home

1932
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 13: and maybe you're only driving like thirty minutes, maybe an hour,

1933
01:57:52,680 --> 01:57:56,360
Speaker 13: maybe two hours. And now we're having people who you know,

1934
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:00,440
Speaker 13: flights or it's a twelve hour drive, who are a

1935
01:58:00,520 --> 01:58:03,520
Speaker 13: flight there, who are a flight back. The flight lands

1936
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:05,960
Speaker 13: at like midnight, you know, like and then your kids

1937
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:10,640
Speaker 13: are in bed, and it's like it's so much and

1938
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:17,320
Speaker 13: you can see why people give up, and people are

1939
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:24,640
Speaker 13: giving up. In fact, the numbers are the numbers are

1940
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:29,560
Speaker 13: hard to hear. I know that there was a study

1941
01:58:29,560 --> 01:58:31,760
Speaker 13: that showed that in the first six months after the

1942
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 13: DABS decision, thirty six thousand people who wanted an abortion

1943
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:38,080
Speaker 13: couldn't get one, and that is only in the first

1944
01:58:38,440 --> 01:58:41,200
Speaker 13: six months, So I'm sure that that number is much

1945
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,920
Speaker 13: I'm like dreading seeing new numbers, but I'm sure the

1946
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:46,960
Speaker 13: number is much higher now. So when you're faced with

1947
01:58:47,040 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 13: all of this, people do give up because it is

1948
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:54,360
Speaker 13: too much, which is the whole point of all of

1949
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:56,440
Speaker 13: the bands and everything that's happened. The point was to

1950
01:58:56,440 --> 01:58:59,160
Speaker 13: make people give up. And I think that a lot

1951
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:02,880
Speaker 13: of leftists maybe don't want to acknowledge that people are

1952
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:08,320
Speaker 13: giving up. They want to believe that people will keep

1953
01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 13: trying and they'll find those resources and they will get

1954
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 13: to the appointments because help is available, but not everyone

1955
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:17,800
Speaker 13: finds the help that is out there, and not everyone

1956
01:59:17,800 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 13: can make it work. Like there's a lot of reasons

1957
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:24,360
Speaker 13: why people can't do this ridiculous thing I just described.

1958
01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 2: And.

1959
01:59:26,440 --> 01:59:30,360
Speaker 13: Then as abortion care workers, we see them give up.

1960
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:34,360
Speaker 13: And I think that's kind of been the biggest one

1961
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 13: of the biggest changes for me is just how often

1962
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:39,480
Speaker 13: I see people give up and just having to witness

1963
01:59:39,480 --> 01:59:40,920
Speaker 13: that because it's like, well, what does it mean when

1964
01:59:40,920 --> 01:59:43,640
Speaker 13: someone gives up? What does it mean when someone stops

1965
01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:46,560
Speaker 13: trying to get the healthcare that they're looking for? They're

1966
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:50,640
Speaker 13: changing their entire plans, like you know, because like everyone,

1967
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:53,560
Speaker 13: not everyone, but a lot of people have like ideas

1968
01:59:53,560 --> 01:59:55,760
Speaker 13: of what they're doing with their life, and they're like,

1969
01:59:55,800 --> 01:59:58,200
Speaker 13: I want to have this many kids, I want to

1970
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:01,520
Speaker 13: have them at these times, and I want to be

1971
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:03,600
Speaker 13: with this person, or I don't want to be with anyone,

1972
02:00:03,880 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 13: and I want to work this job and go to

1973
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:09,520
Speaker 13: the school or whatever. You know, you're making plans and

1974
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 13: then all of a sudden, because of this situation, you

1975
02:00:11,800 --> 02:00:17,680
Speaker 13: have to change your plans. And there's even worse things

1976
02:00:17,720 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 13: happening than that. But I think that that's bad enough,

1977
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:24,840
Speaker 13: is that you can't get what you need and you

1978
02:00:24,920 --> 02:00:32,640
Speaker 13: just have to just change your life and accept defeat

1979
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:35,560
Speaker 13: and take a path that you did not want to take.

1980
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:40,320
Speaker 13: And it's fucking sad. And it's more than sad sad

1981
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:41,960
Speaker 13: as an understatement, I don't know what word it is.

1982
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:45,800
Speaker 13: It's horrible because this has been taken from them, The

1983
02:00:45,880 --> 02:00:50,040
Speaker 13: choice has been taken from them completely, and that's that

1984
02:00:50,160 --> 02:00:52,280
Speaker 13: is going to have effects that we are going to

1985
02:00:52,280 --> 02:00:56,120
Speaker 13: see for decades to come, and that's kind of hard

1986
02:00:56,120 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 13: to wrap your brain around, like what does it mean

1987
02:00:57,800 --> 02:01:02,240
Speaker 13: for that and tens of thousands of people to not

1988
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:05,280
Speaker 13: have had the health care that they need. It means

1989
02:01:05,280 --> 02:01:08,440
Speaker 13: that we're going to see like the negative health effects

1990
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:10,360
Speaker 13: for years to come because that is a lot of people.

1991
02:01:11,120 --> 02:01:12,840
Speaker 13: That is a lot of that's a lot of people,

1992
02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 13: and that's going to impact people in really long term

1993
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:19,480
Speaker 13: ways for a really long time. And knowing that is

1994
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:22,640
Speaker 13: really I don't know, words are kind of failing me. Yeah,

1995
02:01:22,680 --> 02:01:27,680
Speaker 13: it's like it's like beyond traumatic, beyond Yeah, I'm sure

1996
02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:30,200
Speaker 13: there will be studies in years from now, I'm sure,

1997
02:01:30,280 --> 02:01:33,960
Speaker 13: but like it's been a year and I can say,

1998
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:36,120
Speaker 13: like it's those it's gonna the data is going to

1999
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:38,520
Speaker 13: be really bad. The data is going to be really

2000
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:41,080
Speaker 13: bad based on everything that I've already seen.

2001
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:47,000
Speaker 10: So suffering is not something you can quantify. And you know,

2002
02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:51,720
Speaker 10: the amount of human suffering that's been unleashed by this is, yeah,

2003
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 10: like one of the worst crimes that's happened in the century,

2004
02:01:56,080 --> 02:01:58,640
Speaker 10: full of like unspeakable crimes.

2005
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:03,440
Speaker 13: And this looks different for each individual, you know, because

2006
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 13: it's just the whole the whole. It's autonomy. You're losing

2007
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:09,680
Speaker 13: control over your life and your body, and your family

2008
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:13,200
Speaker 13: and your and there's just so many things, and it

2009
02:02:13,240 --> 02:02:16,320
Speaker 13: looks different for each person. So for some people it's

2010
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:18,240
Speaker 13: like you have to just fucking change everything that you're

2011
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:21,000
Speaker 13: fucking doing. You can't control your life or your body.

2012
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:24,120
Speaker 13: And then for other people it can be even worse

2013
02:02:24,200 --> 02:02:30,320
Speaker 13: than that. Where where you are, you're risking death because

2014
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:33,680
Speaker 13: pregnancy is incredibly dangerous. So there are people who who

2015
02:02:33,720 --> 02:02:38,200
Speaker 13: are putting themselves in really dangerous situations with their pregnancies,

2016
02:02:38,200 --> 02:02:39,920
Speaker 13: and they're being denied the care that they need. So

2017
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:44,720
Speaker 13: you see people who are being forced to risk their

2018
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,240
Speaker 13: life because they can't get the care they need, and

2019
02:02:47,520 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 13: people are losing their body parts and their fertility. Because

2020
02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:54,680
Speaker 13: recently I read a story and then there's these horror

2021
02:02:54,720 --> 02:02:57,800
Speaker 13: stories every day, which I like, I read them because

2022
02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 13: I want to know everything that's happening, but I also

2023
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:01,760
Speaker 13: am so resentful that like every day there's like a

2024
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:06,840
Speaker 13: new like horror story about these services. But recently there

2025
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:09,240
Speaker 13: was someone there was somebody who wasn't able to get

2026
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 13: timely abortion care it had to continue pregnancy, ended up

2027
02:03:12,240 --> 02:03:16,800
Speaker 13: losing her uterus, even though she did not she wanted

2028
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:19,440
Speaker 13: to have more kids. She like wanted to continue having children.

2029
02:03:19,560 --> 02:03:21,320
Speaker 13: So all of a sudden, because she couldn't get an abortion,

2030
02:03:21,440 --> 02:03:23,360
Speaker 13: she couldn't continue to expand her family in the way

2031
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:23,920
Speaker 13: that she wanted.

2032
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:27,560
Speaker 10: She sterilized effectively, Yeah, exactly, like by the state.

2033
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:34,320
Speaker 13: Which yeah, so it's the suffering is is so different

2034
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:38,360
Speaker 13: for each individual and so intimate to them there, and

2035
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:40,200
Speaker 13: it's it's going all the way up to like just

2036
02:03:40,240 --> 02:03:45,240
Speaker 13: like state mandated, just like body horror basically, and and

2037
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:49,200
Speaker 13: it's deadly. It's really deadly, which is hard to talk about.

2038
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:52,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, you know, just having said that, should

2039
02:03:52,840 --> 02:03:57,600
Speaker 10: we talk a little bit about Gabriela Gonzalez and how

2040
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:00,800
Speaker 10: you know, the other thing about abortion care is that

2041
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:04,720
Speaker 10: it's not just that pregnancy is dangerous physically, it's that pregnancy,

2042
02:04:04,720 --> 02:04:08,920
Speaker 10: like pregnancy is really dangerous socially because you know, we

2043
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:13,560
Speaker 10: live in an incredibly patriarchal society, and that means patriarchal

2044
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:15,760
Speaker 10: violence is a real threat.

2045
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:22,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, and this is always this Unfortunately, one component of

2046
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:28,560
Speaker 13: abortion care is it often involves interpersonal violence or more

2047
02:04:28,640 --> 02:04:30,920
Speaker 13: you know, a lot of people say domestic violence and

2048
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:34,160
Speaker 13: it's because a lot of partners will try to control

2049
02:04:34,760 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 13: someone through through pregnancy and it's a tactic of abuse

2050
02:04:39,720 --> 02:04:43,400
Speaker 13: that that does come up. And if somebody does get

2051
02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:46,880
Speaker 13: pregnant while they are in that kind of relationship, and

2052
02:04:48,680 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 13: that's that's a big thing. You know, a lot of

2053
02:04:51,320 --> 02:04:53,880
Speaker 13: times they it makes sense that if they're trying to

2054
02:04:53,880 --> 02:04:58,200
Speaker 13: get away from someone that you know, they don't want

2055
02:04:58,240 --> 02:05:01,840
Speaker 13: to continue the pregnancy. So and then that might be

2056
02:05:01,840 --> 02:05:05,400
Speaker 13: something that the partner might be intimately involved in where

2057
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:07,440
Speaker 13: either they know about it or they don't know about it,

2058
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:09,040
Speaker 13: and if they know about it, they could be pressuring

2059
02:05:09,040 --> 02:05:12,640
Speaker 13: the individual. It's unfortunately something that is often a component

2060
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:16,080
Speaker 13: of this healthcare is that that is a factor that

2061
02:05:16,120 --> 02:05:20,400
Speaker 13: the person seeking healthcare is dealing with. So in terms

2062
02:05:20,440 --> 02:05:24,320
Speaker 13: of and all of this is I'm like, this is

2063
02:05:24,360 --> 02:05:28,680
Speaker 13: all really really triggering stuff too, and so trigger warning.

2064
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:33,280
Speaker 13: But with Gabrielle A Gonzalez, that was something that happened.

2065
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:36,000
Speaker 13: I think it was in it was in May. I

2066
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:38,400
Speaker 13: remember it was in mid May. Because the news hit

2067
02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:43,720
Speaker 13: it hit hard for us for like a lot of

2068
02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:47,240
Speaker 13: abortion care workers and practical support you know, advocates, because

2069
02:05:48,000 --> 02:05:52,440
Speaker 13: it's the thing that we we try so hard to

2070
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:56,440
Speaker 13: keep our patients safe. When they disclose things to us,

2071
02:05:56,520 --> 02:06:00,440
Speaker 13: you know they we the patient safety is the number

2072
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:04,040
Speaker 13: one priority. And the fact of the matter is these

2073
02:06:04,120 --> 02:06:07,280
Speaker 13: bands make it harder for people to access the services safely.

2074
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:10,520
Speaker 13: So in the case of Gabriella Gonzalez, I just want

2075
02:06:10,520 --> 02:06:14,160
Speaker 13: to say her name. She was a mother of three children.

2076
02:06:14,840 --> 02:06:17,360
Speaker 13: She was twenty six years old when she was murdered

2077
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:21,520
Speaker 13: by her ex partner after she accessed an abortion in

2078
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 13: another state. So she was located in Texas, she had

2079
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:30,200
Speaker 13: to travel to Colorado to get an abortion, and when

2080
02:06:30,200 --> 02:06:35,320
Speaker 13: she came back, unfortunately, she was murdered by her ex.

2081
02:06:36,800 --> 02:06:43,840
Speaker 13: And just like a couple, just like a couple of

2082
02:06:43,880 --> 02:06:48,360
Speaker 13: things on that is. It's just if you are trying

2083
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:50,880
Speaker 13: to be discreet and you're trying to take care of

2084
02:06:50,920 --> 02:06:54,040
Speaker 13: your health care, it's hard to keep things private if

2085
02:06:54,040 --> 02:06:58,000
Speaker 13: you have to fly to another or drive to another state.

2086
02:06:58,440 --> 02:07:04,040
Speaker 13: It's just this situation is is just so much more

2087
02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:06,480
Speaker 13: complicated than it would be if you could access those

2088
02:07:06,520 --> 02:07:10,080
Speaker 13: services at home or near where you are. It's easier

2089
02:07:10,080 --> 02:07:15,320
Speaker 13: to keep that information private, it's easier to handle that

2090
02:07:15,360 --> 02:07:21,080
Speaker 13: situation in a timely way. So I feel like I mean,

2091
02:07:21,120 --> 02:07:25,960
Speaker 13: our country is failing everyone pretty much. But I'm torn

2092
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:30,440
Speaker 13: apart and devastated and this was this news hit so

2093
02:07:30,520 --> 02:07:37,080
Speaker 13: hard to learn about Gabriella Gonzalez and what happened to her,

2094
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:42,600
Speaker 13: and knowing that, you know, we try so hard to

2095
02:07:42,720 --> 02:07:49,120
Speaker 13: keep our patients safe and being careful about communications, being

2096
02:07:49,280 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 13: careful about what we hand patients, even like there are

2097
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:55,400
Speaker 13: sometimes like it's like, well, I cannot give you any handouts,

2098
02:07:55,480 --> 02:07:57,440
Speaker 13: So here's how we're going to provide you the information,

2099
02:07:58,680 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 13: because it's you know, people can't even have that information

2100
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:05,200
Speaker 13: on their phone or or in their purse on their person,

2101
02:08:05,960 --> 02:08:08,240
Speaker 13: and trying so hard and then just having like the

2102
02:08:08,280 --> 02:08:11,560
Speaker 13: state defy you in every way, and and it's just

2103
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:14,560
Speaker 13: really it's trapping people in the in this these violent

2104
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:18,959
Speaker 13: situations that you say, I mean, these situations have always existed,

2105
02:08:19,360 --> 02:08:23,560
Speaker 13: but ever since these abortion bands went into effect, it

2106
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:25,320
Speaker 13: is made them even even more dangerous.

2107
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:28,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I mean, you know, and I think in

2108
02:08:28,720 --> 02:08:32,000
Speaker 10: terms of just sort of getting at what the people

2109
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:34,440
Speaker 10: who support this stuff believe, like they know about this,

2110
02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:36,800
Speaker 10: like this is this is what they want to happen, right,

2111
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:39,360
Speaker 10: Like this is you know, this is this is what

2112
02:08:39,400 --> 02:08:42,200
Speaker 10: this is what this is what it actually means to

2113
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:45,040
Speaker 10: have an ideology that's based on patriarchal control. Is this

2114
02:08:45,120 --> 02:08:48,160
Speaker 10: ship yep, it's this like this is this this violence

2115
02:08:48,200 --> 02:08:50,560
Speaker 10: and that like this kind of coercion is what they want.

2116
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,400
Speaker 10: These are also you know, like again these are there's

2117
02:08:52,400 --> 02:08:54,040
Speaker 10: a reason. These are also people who want to end

2118
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:58,040
Speaker 10: out fall divorce, right, like they like their entire ideology

2119
02:08:58,200 --> 02:09:01,800
Speaker 10: is based on men being able to and flip violence, yep.

2120
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:05,240
Speaker 13: And and you know, and these are what pro life people.

2121
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:08,320
Speaker 13: And you know, gabriel A Gonzalez was a mother of

2122
02:09:08,400 --> 02:09:12,160
Speaker 13: three children. She was a mother and her children needed

2123
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:17,520
Speaker 13: her and now she's gone. And and I feel like

2124
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:23,680
Speaker 13: the abortion bands and the like the demolition of abortion

2125
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:26,600
Speaker 13: services in the United States has led to this situation

2126
02:09:26,840 --> 02:09:29,360
Speaker 13: and will continue to lead to more situations like this.

2127
02:09:29,840 --> 02:09:34,840
Speaker 13: And they're all devastating and and I hate it. I

2128
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:40,960
Speaker 13: just it's fucking awful. It's so fucking bad. And I

2129
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:42,800
Speaker 13: know that, like, like where do I go from there

2130
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:47,520
Speaker 13: after saying like the worst in.

2131
02:09:47,440 --> 02:09:52,200
Speaker 10: The world, and then yeah, I don't know, I mean,

2132
02:09:52,320 --> 02:09:54,120
Speaker 10: I guess I guess the thing I can say after that,

2133
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:56,960
Speaker 10: right is like, if you want to live in a

2134
02:09:57,000 --> 02:10:04,160
Speaker 10: world that is not just utterly controlled by the most

2135
02:10:04,160 --> 02:10:07,840
Speaker 10: evil people who've ever lived by, you know, that is

2136
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:11,960
Speaker 10: defined by enormous entries of human suffering. Like these people

2137
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:17,760
Speaker 10: their politics, to logistical support networks, their parties, like the

2138
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 10: entire political apparatus that is doing it needs to be

2139
02:10:20,400 --> 02:10:24,120
Speaker 10: completely destroyed, like like raised to the ground in a

2140
02:10:24,160 --> 02:10:28,600
Speaker 10: way that it like literally can never recover. And that

2141
02:10:28,720 --> 02:10:31,040
Speaker 10: is the thing that is possible, right it is, it

2142
02:10:31,080 --> 02:10:33,640
Speaker 10: is possible to completely destroy political movements. It is possible

2143
02:10:33,680 --> 02:10:36,760
Speaker 10: to just drive them so far underground that people forget

2144
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:40,000
Speaker 10: they even existed. And you know, and then that has

2145
02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:43,800
Speaker 10: happened to movements before that were you know, as powerful

2146
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:47,640
Speaker 10: as this one. So it can be done. It's just

2147
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:52,560
Speaker 10: it requires, you know, I mean, it requires a level

2148
02:10:52,600 --> 02:10:55,120
Speaker 10: of political will that most that you know, a politicians

2149
02:10:55,120 --> 02:10:57,680
Speaker 10: don't give a shit about because this is not something

2150
02:10:57,720 --> 02:10:58,760
Speaker 10: that affects them.

2151
02:10:59,080 --> 02:11:01,440
Speaker 13: Speaking of politicians, it's not giving a shit. Going back

2152
02:11:01,440 --> 02:11:04,160
Speaker 13: to like, you know, the initial reflection on like, you know,

2153
02:11:04,240 --> 02:11:07,600
Speaker 13: it's it's been a year since Roe v. Way was

2154
02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:12,840
Speaker 13: overturned in the Dobbs decision, and what has happened, Like

2155
02:11:12,920 --> 02:11:17,640
Speaker 13: what have the politicians done to alleviate all of this

2156
02:11:17,840 --> 02:11:20,920
Speaker 13: suffering that you know, I've been talking about, and it's

2157
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:24,400
Speaker 13: it's very little. Like the biggest win that we've had

2158
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:29,680
Speaker 13: is mif a pristone not being banned, which is horrible

2159
02:11:29,720 --> 02:11:32,400
Speaker 13: because like, oh and then that was that whole yeah thing,

2160
02:11:32,520 --> 02:11:34,440
Speaker 13: that whole step, but that's like a whole other thing.

2161
02:11:34,560 --> 02:11:39,560
Speaker 13: But that is such a blique win, especially since it's

2162
02:11:39,600 --> 02:11:42,200
Speaker 13: not even gone and we're going to see this issue

2163
02:11:42,200 --> 02:11:45,840
Speaker 13: come back with mif a pristone. And and that's another

2164
02:11:45,880 --> 02:11:49,400
Speaker 13: thing too, because if that does happen, like misapristal is amazing,

2165
02:11:49,400 --> 02:11:55,080
Speaker 13: and misa prostal is very effective, and taking mesaprostal only

2166
02:11:55,400 --> 02:12:00,560
Speaker 13: for abortion is effective, but it's also more symptomatic and

2167
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:03,080
Speaker 13: given just like you know, like we were talking about

2168
02:12:03,120 --> 02:12:07,440
Speaker 13: people like just people being exposed to violence, people having

2169
02:12:07,440 --> 02:12:10,760
Speaker 13: to act doing just like moving mountains and having to

2170
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,400
Speaker 13: cross mountains and go on a journey to get these

2171
02:12:14,640 --> 02:12:19,280
Speaker 13: abortion services and literally what can be often a thirty

2172
02:12:19,320 --> 02:12:23,520
Speaker 13: minute to an hour appointment if you're you know, lucky.

2173
02:12:23,520 --> 02:12:25,879
Speaker 13: It's not always like that, but anyways, like these services

2174
02:12:25,880 --> 02:12:27,880
Speaker 13: aren't complicated, like you know, like it's not like a

2175
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:33,400
Speaker 13: like these y, yeah, we have the technology, Like like

2176
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:36,200
Speaker 13: to get medication, you just go and you get the medication.

2177
02:12:36,240 --> 02:12:37,560
Speaker 13: They tell you how to take the medication, and they

2178
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:39,400
Speaker 13: make sure they can prescribe you the medication. You get it.

2179
02:12:39,480 --> 02:12:42,160
Speaker 13: It's not like that can be like a fifteen minute appointment.

2180
02:12:42,320 --> 02:12:46,840
Speaker 13: And then if you're if you're like under a certain

2181
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:50,080
Speaker 13: gestational age, a first time master abortion can be only

2182
02:12:50,120 --> 02:12:52,879
Speaker 13: like five minutes. Like this, This is not complicated healthcare.

2183
02:12:53,080 --> 02:12:57,600
Speaker 13: This is very simple healthcare. And you're adding all these

2184
02:12:57,640 --> 02:13:00,160
Speaker 13: extra factors in so when you're when you have to

2185
02:13:00,200 --> 02:13:03,160
Speaker 13: prescribe someone in medication that is more symptomatic, which is

2186
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:07,040
Speaker 13: just adding like it's just one more complication. And the

2187
02:13:07,120 --> 02:13:10,040
Speaker 13: attack on abortion services has always been death by a

2188
02:13:10,080 --> 02:13:14,560
Speaker 13: thousand cuts, and this is just like one more cut

2189
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:16,600
Speaker 13: that we really really do not need. So but that

2190
02:13:16,760 --> 02:13:19,240
Speaker 13: was a win and and and it's like that is

2191
02:13:19,280 --> 02:13:22,120
Speaker 13: such a shitty win. And then you have some states

2192
02:13:22,120 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 13: that are becoming like sanctuary states where they're like, you

2193
02:13:24,680 --> 02:13:27,080
Speaker 13: know where I hate I hate saying that word. I'm

2194
02:13:27,080 --> 02:13:29,800
Speaker 13: so sorry. I didn't mean to say sanctuary states because

2195
02:13:29,840 --> 02:13:32,480
Speaker 13: it's really not that, but they're saying like we're a

2196
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:34,400
Speaker 13: safe place for you to get an abortion and we're

2197
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:36,600
Speaker 13: never we're always gonna have abortion services. And it's like,

2198
02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:40,040
Speaker 13: what does that mean if you have so many patients

2199
02:13:40,040 --> 02:13:42,640
Speaker 13: traveling from other states that you're booking five weeks A.

2200
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:44,640
Speaker 14: Yeah, well they won't and it's like they won't fucking

2201
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:46,960
Speaker 14: fund it, right, Like, yes, this is the thing that

2202
02:13:47,000 --> 02:13:49,960
Speaker 14: like I'm just like unbelievably fucking angry about, right is it,

2203
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:54,240
Speaker 14: like you know, daubs in terms of just the raw

2204
02:13:54,440 --> 02:13:57,400
Speaker 14: sort of politics of it, right, in terms of pure

2205
02:13:57,400 --> 02:13:59,320
Speaker 14: getting votes, this is the best thing that's ever fucking

2206
02:13:59,320 --> 02:14:00,680
Speaker 14: happened in the DEM Party.

2207
02:14:00,920 --> 02:14:03,360
Speaker 10: Right, they have been reaping the fucking electoral rewards for this.

2208
02:14:03,680 --> 02:14:08,120
Speaker 10: And what have they been fucking doing for fifty goddamn years,

2209
02:14:08,160 --> 02:14:11,520
Speaker 10: like nothing? Right, and this and this is something that like, Okay,

2210
02:14:11,560 --> 02:14:12,760
Speaker 10: you know, if if if you look at the way

2211
02:14:12,800 --> 02:14:15,800
Speaker 10: the right has been like fucking dealing with this, right,

2212
02:14:15,880 --> 02:14:18,760
Speaker 10: it's at every single step, right, you know, they they're

2213
02:14:18,760 --> 02:14:22,680
Speaker 10: constantly involved in lawsuits, they they're they're constantly pushing the

2214
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:25,800
Speaker 10: boundaries and doing literally whatever they can within the within

2215
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:27,360
Speaker 10: and without the bounds.

2216
02:14:27,120 --> 02:14:27,400
Speaker 2: Of the law.

2217
02:14:27,480 --> 02:14:27,560
Speaker 11: Right.

2218
02:14:27,600 --> 02:14:29,600
Speaker 10: I mean, we've talked about the sort of vigilante campaigns, right,

2219
02:14:29,600 --> 02:14:31,840
Speaker 10: but like you know, they're like doing things like like

2220
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:33,560
Speaker 10: like you know, I mean the one of the classic

2221
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:37,040
Speaker 10: ones is requiring like facilities that do abortions to have

2222
02:14:37,080 --> 02:14:39,280
Speaker 10: like a specific length of hallway or like like with

2223
02:14:39,400 --> 02:14:42,240
Speaker 10: a different Yeah, and like they've been doing all this

2224
02:14:42,320 --> 02:14:44,400
Speaker 10: fucking legal bullshit to make it as hard as as

2225
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:47,160
Speaker 10: humanly possible. Right, is there a Democrat version of this?

2226
02:14:47,320 --> 02:14:47,600
Speaker 3: No?

2227
02:14:47,600 --> 02:14:49,240
Speaker 10: No, they fucking they came to the height of min

2228
02:14:49,440 --> 02:14:51,440
Speaker 10: Like even even the states that have the ship, it's

2229
02:14:51,520 --> 02:14:53,960
Speaker 10: like they're they're not fucking funding it, right, It's like

2230
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:55,800
Speaker 10: they're not they're not fucking paying like they they they're

2231
02:14:55,800 --> 02:14:57,600
Speaker 10: ship that they could be doing, and they just they

2232
02:14:57,600 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 10: don't care because this is this is a you know,

2233
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:01,360
Speaker 10: this is a very seeing They can trot out in

2234
02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:03,400
Speaker 10: their fucking fundraising meetings and they can get people to

2235
02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:06,120
Speaker 10: vote for them, but they're not gonna they're not gonna

2236
02:15:06,120 --> 02:15:08,200
Speaker 10: wage this kind of campaign that the Republicans have been like,

2237
02:15:08,200 --> 02:15:10,440
Speaker 10: they're not gonna wage a pro access campaign on the

2238
02:15:10,480 --> 02:15:13,040
Speaker 10: scale at all, Right, but they're not gonna not gonna

2239
02:15:13,040 --> 02:15:14,840
Speaker 10: wage on the scale the Republicans have been doing to

2240
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:18,600
Speaker 10: like make sure that you fucking can't get these services.

2241
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:23,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's like these blue states they're not safe, and

2242
02:15:23,680 --> 02:15:27,000
Speaker 13: there's like the ridiculous there was like stockpiling mesapostal or

2243
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:29,080
Speaker 13: whatever some states were saying they were doing. And it's like,

2244
02:15:29,120 --> 02:15:31,760
Speaker 13: if you're really looking out for people and you're really

2245
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:37,120
Speaker 13: trying to defy these awful human rights violating laws, then

2246
02:15:37,320 --> 02:15:39,320
Speaker 13: send the medication to band states.

2247
02:15:39,760 --> 02:15:42,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean I help patients.

2248
02:15:41,760 --> 02:15:48,440
Speaker 13: In band states, like don't abandon Texas, don't abandon Louisiana

2249
02:15:48,480 --> 02:15:53,280
Speaker 13: and Mississippi, like help them because like where are they going.

2250
02:15:53,400 --> 02:15:58,080
Speaker 13: They're going to blue states. Like there's like there's like

2251
02:15:58,160 --> 02:15:59,880
Speaker 13: a ripple effect. And I feel like I talked about

2252
02:15:59,880 --> 02:16:02,640
Speaker 13: this last time when I was on talking to you,

2253
02:16:03,120 --> 02:16:06,520
Speaker 13: where Okay, you can't get these healthcare services near you,

2254
02:16:06,600 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 13: so you go somewhere else, and the people locally can't

2255
02:16:09,480 --> 02:16:11,440
Speaker 13: get those services, so then they have to travel further

2256
02:16:11,440 --> 02:16:13,880
Speaker 13: and there's like this ripple effect to the point where

2257
02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:16,160
Speaker 13: like I'm sure that like blue states are seeing more

2258
02:16:16,680 --> 02:16:18,560
Speaker 13: appointments than ever. And I know for a fact like

2259
02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:21,840
Speaker 13: here in Pennsylvania, here in Pittsburgh, where literally we're seeing

2260
02:16:21,840 --> 02:16:24,080
Speaker 13: we're always seeing people in Ohio just because they'll even

2261
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:27,120
Speaker 13: though abortion is legal in Ohio. It's just there's a

2262
02:16:27,160 --> 02:16:30,760
Speaker 13: lot of restrictions there, so it's a little tricky. But

2263
02:16:30,840 --> 02:16:33,840
Speaker 13: then there's like West Virginia and like Kentucky and Tennessee,

2264
02:16:34,320 --> 02:16:38,600
Speaker 13: and you're seeing so many more patients so you're booking

2265
02:16:38,600 --> 02:16:41,600
Speaker 13: out further. And it's like if you're let's say you're

2266
02:16:41,680 --> 02:16:44,160
Speaker 13: eight weeks and you find out, so if you're eight

2267
02:16:44,160 --> 02:16:48,760
Speaker 13: weeks pregnant, then you're you've only missed your period like

2268
02:16:48,800 --> 02:16:51,320
Speaker 13: for like a couple of weeks. It's really like, you know,

2269
02:16:50,959 --> 02:16:53,240
Speaker 13: you can find out you're eight weeks, right, You're like,

2270
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:58,000
Speaker 13: you just found out, really, and you call somewhere near

2271
02:16:58,080 --> 02:17:00,400
Speaker 13: you to get an appointment, but the appointment is five

2272
02:17:00,440 --> 02:17:02,080
Speaker 13: weeks away, so all of a sudden, you go from

2273
02:17:02,120 --> 02:17:05,200
Speaker 13: eight weeks to thirteen weeks. It's like, what the heck.

2274
02:17:05,280 --> 02:17:10,680
Speaker 13: It's like yeah, like it's totally different options, like and

2275
02:17:10,800 --> 02:17:12,840
Speaker 13: that's happening in blue states, and it's like, so this

2276
02:17:12,920 --> 02:17:19,840
Speaker 13: is impacting literally everyone, but no politicians or even like

2277
02:17:19,879 --> 02:17:24,199
Speaker 13: big talking heads are really doing anything about it because

2278
02:17:24,200 --> 02:17:27,959
Speaker 13: it just gets worse. There's just more bands constantly.

2279
02:17:28,280 --> 02:17:29,800
Speaker 10: And I want to talk a bit about this the

2280
02:17:29,840 --> 02:17:32,720
Speaker 10: sanctuary bullshit too, because I like this is like a

2281
02:17:32,760 --> 02:17:35,920
Speaker 10: third fucking issue that we've seen politicians be like, oh,

2282
02:17:35,959 --> 02:17:37,720
Speaker 10: we're a sanctuary state. It's like, yeah, okay, Like I

2283
02:17:38,160 --> 02:17:40,760
Speaker 10: remember when I was doing fucking anti ice raids stuff, right,

2284
02:17:41,040 --> 02:17:42,400
Speaker 10: do you know? Do you do you know how much

2285
02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:45,040
Speaker 10: how much time we fucking spent trying to stop raids

2286
02:17:45,240 --> 02:17:48,160
Speaker 10: like ice raids in saying in quote unquote sanctuary states,

2287
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:50,720
Speaker 10: Like it's bullshit. It's always been fucking bullshit. They don't

2288
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:54,240
Speaker 10: mean it, and you know, all of the fucking like

2289
02:17:54,840 --> 02:17:57,160
Speaker 10: this is the sanctuary state thing is just like a

2290
02:17:57,200 --> 02:17:59,920
Speaker 10: thing that they fucking say so that they can you know,

2291
02:18:00,160 --> 02:18:02,120
Speaker 10: just sort of like like rally the based support and

2292
02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:04,680
Speaker 10: like build towards whatever presidential run they're going to do

2293
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:09,360
Speaker 10: in twenty like thirty two whatever. And it doesn't. It's

2294
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:13,000
Speaker 10: not it's not helping people and it's just not going to.

2295
02:18:13,840 --> 02:18:16,080
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's not. It's it's not a strategy that works.

2296
02:18:16,400 --> 02:18:20,400
Speaker 13: And I mean it's just entirely selfish. It's it's it's

2297
02:18:21,040 --> 02:18:24,680
Speaker 13: it's rage inducing because it's you know, how do I

2298
02:18:24,720 --> 02:18:27,640
Speaker 13: feel as an abortion worker. You know, it's been a

2299
02:18:27,720 --> 02:18:31,600
Speaker 13: year since Robi Way was overturned, and I have to

2300
02:18:31,600 --> 02:18:36,360
Speaker 13: witness all of this needless suffering and trauma and people's

2301
02:18:36,480 --> 02:18:40,879
Speaker 13: safety being compromised and people being hurt and people giving

2302
02:18:40,920 --> 02:18:44,680
Speaker 13: up and and then these politicians are not doing anything.

2303
02:18:45,560 --> 02:18:48,360
Speaker 13: I am so I'm full of so much anger that

2304
02:18:48,440 --> 02:18:52,120
Speaker 13: it's it's sometimes numbing, Like sometimes I'm just so angry

2305
02:18:52,640 --> 02:18:55,840
Speaker 13: that I kind of feel nothing like it kind of

2306
02:18:55,879 --> 02:19:00,840
Speaker 13: like it's like it's so far down the spectrum that

2307
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:03,520
Speaker 13: I like just it just turns into like a non

2308
02:19:03,560 --> 02:19:06,959
Speaker 13: emotion basically, like so much anger that it's blinding and

2309
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:12,200
Speaker 13: feels like nothing, And I don't even know what. I

2310
02:19:12,240 --> 02:19:13,440
Speaker 13: don't even know what to do with it other than

2311
02:19:13,480 --> 02:19:16,640
Speaker 13: focus into just like continuing to provide healthcare where it's like, oh,

2312
02:19:16,640 --> 02:19:18,120
Speaker 13: I'm so angry and I'm so mad and I feel

2313
02:19:18,200 --> 02:19:20,440
Speaker 13: so terrible. I Am going to make sure that this

2314
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:22,760
Speaker 13: person gets an abortion. Like that's what I can do.

2315
02:19:23,320 --> 02:19:25,840
Speaker 13: I can I can get people to an appointment, and

2316
02:19:26,800 --> 02:19:30,000
Speaker 13: I don't I want to do more. I want to

2317
02:19:30,400 --> 02:19:34,080
Speaker 13: go and and just like raise everything to the ground

2318
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:36,720
Speaker 13: and be like, like you were saying, but I can't

2319
02:19:36,760 --> 02:19:38,000
Speaker 13: be the only one doing that, Like we all have

2320
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:41,520
Speaker 13: to do yeah, like we all have to raise everything

2321
02:19:41,560 --> 02:19:44,720
Speaker 13: in the ground because this is so untenable and so

2322
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:52,600
Speaker 13: unfair and and is creating such a huge ripple of

2323
02:19:52,680 --> 02:19:55,240
Speaker 13: suffering that we're all going to be experiencing for decades.

2324
02:19:55,360 --> 02:19:59,560
Speaker 13: And I'm really bitter about it. I'm super angry and

2325
02:19:59,640 --> 02:20:06,199
Speaker 13: super bitter, and and it's not going to get better too,

2326
02:20:06,800 --> 02:20:11,040
Speaker 13: it's not I have to be honest about that, because

2327
02:20:11,080 --> 02:20:12,760
Speaker 13: if I'm not, then I'm not going to be prepared.

2328
02:20:13,680 --> 02:20:17,600
Speaker 13: But we're going to continue to see these bands, They're

2329
02:20:18,120 --> 02:20:21,080
Speaker 13: not going away right now. Then if a person issue

2330
02:20:21,080 --> 02:20:27,240
Speaker 13: is going to come back and we're going to keep

2331
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:29,520
Speaker 13: seeing it and it's spreading, and you know, I know

2332
02:20:29,560 --> 02:20:33,640
Speaker 13: that that's like a whole other topic too, but the

2333
02:20:33,720 --> 02:20:38,200
Speaker 13: ripple effects are really immense. And every time someone is hurt,

2334
02:20:39,400 --> 02:20:42,080
Speaker 13: well every individual, like when I heard that thirty six

2335
02:20:42,120 --> 02:20:46,240
Speaker 13: thousand number, that really hurt, yeah, because you know, I

2336
02:20:46,280 --> 02:20:48,000
Speaker 13: know how many patients I've seen in the last year,

2337
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:50,480
Speaker 13: and it is it's less than thirty six thousand. So like,

2338
02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:52,880
Speaker 13: every time I help someone, I'm so happy and I'm like, yes,

2339
02:20:52,959 --> 02:20:56,000
Speaker 13: you know, I helped this person get healthcare, I'm really happy.

2340
02:20:56,040 --> 02:20:57,640
Speaker 13: And then I look at that thirty six thousand number

2341
02:20:57,640 --> 02:20:59,400
Speaker 13: and I'm like, oh my god, there are so many

2342
02:20:59,440 --> 02:21:02,040
Speaker 13: other people who were not able to find help. And

2343
02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:04,480
Speaker 13: I'm and I don't like, like I said, like, I

2344
02:21:04,480 --> 02:21:07,720
Speaker 13: don't even feel good when someone is like thanking me

2345
02:21:08,200 --> 02:21:15,039
Speaker 13: and they oftentimes people will say, people will say to me,

2346
02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:18,960
Speaker 13: I hear this almost every day. You have no idea

2347
02:21:19,959 --> 02:21:22,320
Speaker 13: how grateful and thankful I am. And it's like, I

2348
02:21:22,360 --> 02:21:26,520
Speaker 13: really don't. I don't know because I'm not in your shoes.

2349
02:21:27,080 --> 02:21:33,000
Speaker 13: And I feel I'm and I'm sorry that I that

2350
02:21:33,360 --> 02:21:37,280
Speaker 13: you had to come to me like this, like I'm sorry,

2351
02:21:37,360 --> 02:21:40,680
Speaker 13: I feel I'm so sad in like such a deep

2352
02:21:40,959 --> 02:21:46,240
Speaker 13: visceral way that when someone is saying like you'll never

2353
02:21:46,280 --> 02:21:48,320
Speaker 13: know know how thankful I am that they just weren't

2354
02:21:48,320 --> 02:21:51,520
Speaker 13: able to go to their local doctor's office or even

2355
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:54,440
Speaker 13: have the medication mail to them and and have it

2356
02:21:54,480 --> 02:21:56,080
Speaker 13: like come in like two days and just take it

2357
02:21:56,120 --> 02:21:58,120
Speaker 13: and follow up with the doctor on the phone if needed,

2358
02:21:58,160 --> 02:22:01,320
Speaker 13: you know, something super simple which would make sense. And

2359
02:22:01,520 --> 02:22:05,360
Speaker 13: I am just I'm I just I hate it. I

2360
02:22:05,360 --> 02:22:07,879
Speaker 13: fucking hate it. I just keep coming to that. I'm like,

2361
02:22:07,920 --> 02:22:11,560
Speaker 13: this is so bad, this is so bad. I'm gonna

2362
02:22:11,640 --> 02:22:15,240
Speaker 13: keep doing it, but it sucks.

2363
02:22:15,959 --> 02:22:20,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, we're gonna talk more about this next episode, and

2364
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 10: also how the things that we're seeing in abortion care

2365
02:22:22,879 --> 02:22:26,480
Speaker 10: have been spiraling out and spreading to other sectors of

2366
02:22:26,520 --> 02:22:29,840
Speaker 10: the healthcare system, including trends healthcare. But in the meantime,

2367
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:32,720
Speaker 10: we have an enormous number of links to different abortion

2368
02:22:32,840 --> 02:22:37,400
Speaker 10: funds and various abortioned worker groups who also need your support,

2369
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:41,560
Speaker 10: So yeah, please support them, and yeah, so that that's

2370
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:43,760
Speaker 10: gonna be the next episode is because again again like

2371
02:22:43,760 --> 02:22:46,959
Speaker 10: this this isn't a you know, once you have like

2372
02:22:47,000 --> 02:22:48,879
Speaker 10: an evil like this has been unleashed into the world,

2373
02:22:49,080 --> 02:22:51,480
Speaker 10: it doesn't just stay in one place, right, It keeps moving,

2374
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:54,879
Speaker 10: It keeps going after different people, it keeps expanding, and

2375
02:22:54,920 --> 02:22:57,119
Speaker 10: it keeps just rippling through the world. And so we're

2376
02:22:57,120 --> 02:22:59,720
Speaker 10: goen we talking about that, We're gonna be talking about yeah,

2377
02:23:00,600 --> 02:23:03,480
Speaker 10: you know, I mean, the fights that abortion workers have

2378
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:06,720
Speaker 10: been having, and then we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna

2379
02:23:06,760 --> 02:23:08,640
Speaker 10: give you a brief bit of hope at the end

2380
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:11,760
Speaker 10: of what you can do, because like, fuck it, the

2381
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:13,800
Speaker 10: world does not need to be like this, Like this

2382
02:23:13,959 --> 02:23:16,240
Speaker 10: is not you know, I mean, there's there's the old

2383
02:23:16,280 --> 02:23:18,640
Speaker 10: David Graber lines like that is the ultimate hidden truth

2384
02:23:18,680 --> 02:23:20,680
Speaker 10: of this world is that it is something that we

2385
02:23:20,760 --> 02:23:23,160
Speaker 10: make and could just as easily make differently.

2386
02:23:23,640 --> 02:23:24,920
Speaker 13: Let's do it. Let's make it different.

2387
02:23:25,000 --> 02:23:27,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, let's fucking do that. It's not let's not let's

2388
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:31,640
Speaker 10: not make a fucking immense engine of human suffering. Yeah,

2389
02:23:31,879 --> 02:23:34,560
Speaker 10: before we go for this episode, Uh, do you have

2390
02:23:34,560 --> 02:23:36,760
Speaker 10: stuff that you want to plug in terms of like

2391
02:23:36,879 --> 02:23:39,320
Speaker 10: abortion fund links, in terms of resources.

2392
02:23:39,720 --> 02:23:42,240
Speaker 13: Yeah, absolutely, so, I know that I was talking about

2393
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:47,000
Speaker 13: just abortion funds in general. So find your local abortion fund,

2394
02:23:47,840 --> 02:23:50,119
Speaker 13: go to abortion funds dot org, and you know whatever

2395
02:23:50,160 --> 02:23:53,600
Speaker 13: your local abortion fund, support it. And if you feel

2396
02:23:53,920 --> 02:23:57,160
Speaker 13: like you you know your local abortion fund, like you've

2397
02:23:57,200 --> 02:23:59,080
Speaker 13: been supporting them or they get a lot of support

2398
02:23:59,120 --> 02:24:03,280
Speaker 13: and you want to support maybe like funds elsewhere that

2399
02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:06,720
Speaker 13: are doing doing the good work, then I would recommend

2400
02:24:07,040 --> 02:24:10,840
Speaker 13: the Texas Equal Access Fund, the T Fund in Texas.

2401
02:24:11,720 --> 02:24:15,760
Speaker 13: They are being so amazing and I love them. And

2402
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:19,200
Speaker 13: also I know that the Chicago Abortion Fund is a

2403
02:24:19,320 --> 02:24:23,840
Speaker 13: huge fund, but I just I love them so much,

2404
02:24:23,920 --> 02:24:26,879
Speaker 13: so I just they can't have enough money. Just go

2405
02:24:27,000 --> 02:24:31,119
Speaker 13: donate too, They're so amazing. So Texas Equal Access Fund,

2406
02:24:31,200 --> 02:24:35,400
Speaker 13: the T Fund, the Chicago Abortion Fund, they're doing such

2407
02:24:35,440 --> 02:24:38,360
Speaker 13: important work. So you know, if you if you're looking

2408
02:24:38,400 --> 02:24:40,320
Speaker 13: for someone outside of your local abortion fund which you

2409
02:24:40,360 --> 02:24:42,480
Speaker 13: should be supporting, then also check them out as well.

2410
02:24:42,959 --> 02:24:43,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2411
02:24:43,200 --> 02:24:45,680
Speaker 10: So, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. We

2412
02:24:45,720 --> 02:24:47,880
Speaker 10: will be back tomorrow. We will be talking more about this.

2413
02:24:47,920 --> 02:24:51,040
Speaker 10: We'll be talking about what you can do. And yeah,

2414
02:24:51,120 --> 02:24:55,160
Speaker 10: until then, donate to your abortion funds and yeah, make

2415
02:24:55,280 --> 02:24:57,280
Speaker 10: make make the lives of the people who did this

2416
02:24:57,320 --> 02:25:16,640
Speaker 10: fucking miserable and destroy their political power. Yes, welcome, Dick,

2417
02:25:16,680 --> 02:25:19,760
Speaker 10: it happened here. The podcast for the situation continues to worsen.

2418
02:25:21,440 --> 02:25:25,480
Speaker 10: The thing that is worstening today is the rights war

2419
02:25:25,520 --> 02:25:28,760
Speaker 10: and abortion, which they are winning and are continuing to win,

2420
02:25:29,760 --> 02:25:33,600
Speaker 10: is not contained to simply abortion. It has been spreading.

2421
02:25:33,640 --> 02:25:35,880
Speaker 10: It has been getting worse. And yeah, with me to

2422
02:25:35,920 --> 02:25:39,560
Speaker 10: talk about it is Crystal, who once again is an

2423
02:25:39,560 --> 02:25:42,920
Speaker 10: abortion worker and abortion union organizer and on the on

2424
02:25:42,959 --> 02:25:45,880
Speaker 10: the on the board of a bail fund, not bail fund,

2425
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:47,680
Speaker 10: Jesus Rist. Sorry, I'm getting my I'm getting my getting

2426
02:25:47,680 --> 02:25:50,400
Speaker 10: my funds crossed in my mind on the board of

2427
02:25:50,440 --> 02:25:53,880
Speaker 10: a of a of a Jesus Christ.

2428
02:25:54,640 --> 02:25:57,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, sorry, sorry, I probably shouldn't have said that.

2429
02:25:57,400 --> 02:25:59,440
Speaker 10: No, no, no, no, this is this is entirely my fault

2430
02:25:59,480 --> 02:26:02,039
Speaker 10: because we've been doing so much bail fun stuff that.

2431
02:26:02,760 --> 02:26:03,760
Speaker 13: I mean, they're both good.

2432
02:26:04,080 --> 02:26:05,959
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's like when my brain thinks fund, it just

2433
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:07,560
Speaker 10: goes to it just goes to bail fund.

2434
02:26:07,600 --> 02:26:08,760
Speaker 13: Now all things that are good.

2435
02:26:08,840 --> 02:26:11,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, abortion funds that one. You know, we could just

2436
02:26:11,200 --> 02:26:12,360
Speaker 10: leave that and screw it, you know.

2437
02:26:13,320 --> 02:26:15,080
Speaker 8: It, Well, we'll leave We'll.

2438
02:26:14,800 --> 02:26:21,760
Speaker 10: Leave me doing that in we'll do it live rip

2439
02:26:21,800 --> 02:26:22,280
Speaker 10: and hell.

2440
02:26:22,920 --> 02:26:23,760
Speaker 8: Guy who said that.

2441
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:31,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Crystal, welcome back. Yeah, glad to be

2442
02:26:31,440 --> 02:26:32,160
Speaker 10: talking to you again.

2443
02:26:32,480 --> 02:26:36,320
Speaker 13: Love suffering. I love talking about pain and suffering and

2444
02:26:36,400 --> 02:26:39,040
Speaker 13: also the good work that we are doing to mitigate it,

2445
02:26:39,080 --> 02:26:40,680
Speaker 13: but also pain and suffering.

2446
02:26:40,840 --> 02:26:45,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, so I guess yeah, I think we should

2447
02:26:45,280 --> 02:26:48,320
Speaker 10: start with sort of I don't know what frame it

2448
02:26:48,360 --> 02:26:49,879
Speaker 10: as a contagion is the right way to do it.

2449
02:26:49,920 --> 02:26:52,360
Speaker 10: I think it's probably not. But the way that the

2450
02:26:52,440 --> 02:26:55,480
Speaker 10: sort of the ripple like where where where are the

2451
02:26:55,520 --> 02:27:00,840
Speaker 10: sort of ripples of uh of of the sort of

2452
02:27:00,879 --> 02:27:03,600
Speaker 10: anti portion movements advance have been going.

2453
02:27:05,240 --> 02:27:07,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, because you know, if we're talking about you know,

2454
02:27:07,560 --> 02:27:10,440
Speaker 13: it's been a year since the jobs decision and Roe

2455
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:12,959
Speaker 13: v Way was overturned. You know what does that mean?

2456
02:27:13,120 --> 02:27:16,280
Speaker 13: What does that imply? What would have been the what

2457
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:18,480
Speaker 13: has been in kind of like the aftermath of that.

2458
02:27:19,879 --> 02:27:22,320
Speaker 13: The one thing is that, you know, the strategies to

2459
02:27:22,400 --> 02:27:25,920
Speaker 13: get to that point worked. And I really hate saying

2460
02:27:26,879 --> 02:27:28,920
Speaker 13: like in terms of like they won or we lost,

2461
02:27:29,040 --> 02:27:32,920
Speaker 13: because we're all we're in America, we're all losing. We're

2462
02:27:32,959 --> 02:27:35,520
Speaker 13: all losing here except for the fascists.

2463
02:27:35,600 --> 02:27:38,560
Speaker 5: But so.

2464
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:43,920
Speaker 13: We we have we're seeing a lot of bad things

2465
02:27:43,920 --> 02:27:47,959
Speaker 13: happening because of the job's decision. And that's those strategies

2466
02:27:48,040 --> 02:27:50,600
Speaker 13: worked in our current political environment to get us to

2467
02:27:50,640 --> 02:27:54,560
Speaker 13: that point. And and I mentioned before you know it's

2468
02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:57,440
Speaker 13: death by a thousand cuts is kind of like one

2469
02:27:57,440 --> 02:27:59,599
Speaker 13: of the ways in which you can describe the strategies

2470
02:27:59,640 --> 02:28:06,160
Speaker 13: like NonStop bands, NonStop restrictions just a constant onslaught. Basically

2471
02:28:08,480 --> 02:28:11,879
Speaker 13: bands that are their copycat legislation. You know, they're they're

2472
02:28:11,920 --> 02:28:14,560
Speaker 13: being pumped out. People can just like literally plug in

2473
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:17,400
Speaker 13: the templates and share them and it can be applied

2474
02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:20,440
Speaker 13: to a number of different things in different states and

2475
02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:26,760
Speaker 13: and copy copycat legislation. So it worked, and where we're

2476
02:28:26,800 --> 02:28:31,560
Speaker 13: we are because that strategy worked and did not get

2477
02:28:31,680 --> 02:28:35,119
Speaker 13: enough resistance, not enough was done to combat that strategy

2478
02:28:36,120 --> 02:28:40,280
Speaker 13: on the left with Democrats, and it immediately spread to

2479
02:28:40,360 --> 02:28:44,480
Speaker 13: the next autonomy based issue because and not saying that

2480
02:28:44,520 --> 02:28:48,400
Speaker 13: it didn't start before that, because you know, these fascists

2481
02:28:48,400 --> 02:28:51,760
Speaker 13: have been going after all kinds of issues of autonomy

2482
02:28:51,920 --> 02:28:56,320
Speaker 13: for decades, abortion being one of them, you know, prison,

2483
02:28:57,560 --> 02:29:00,800
Speaker 13: prison abolition being one of them, and then also trans

2484
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:04,959
Speaker 13: healthcare and just you know LGBT in general, but like

2485
02:29:05,080 --> 02:29:08,960
Speaker 13: specifically trans healthcare that we have been seeing, we are

2486
02:29:09,000 --> 02:29:12,680
Speaker 13: seeing a lot of the same restrictions and bands UH

2487
02:29:12,720 --> 02:29:16,400
Speaker 13: spreading to that very quickly, like faster than I. I mean,

2488
02:29:16,440 --> 02:29:17,920
Speaker 13: like I knew things were bad. You would think that

2489
02:29:17,959 --> 02:29:21,680
Speaker 13: I would just like you know, expect the worst. But

2490
02:29:21,760 --> 02:29:24,200
Speaker 13: like I, I didn't think that we would see the

2491
02:29:24,280 --> 02:29:29,119
Speaker 13: legislation for the anti trans health UH healthcare and gender

2492
02:29:29,120 --> 02:29:32,680
Speaker 13: firming services legislation move as fast as it has, like

2493
02:29:32,760 --> 02:29:35,520
Speaker 13: I should have and I didn't, And it's been incredibly fast,

2494
02:29:36,400 --> 02:29:41,160
Speaker 13: and it feels so similar and I should I don't

2495
02:29:41,160 --> 02:29:43,320
Speaker 13: even want to say it feel similar. It is. It's

2496
02:29:43,400 --> 02:29:45,360
Speaker 13: when I when I'm seeing it happen, I'm like, this

2497
02:29:45,520 --> 02:29:48,360
Speaker 13: is the same thing. They're using trap laws, which are

2498
02:29:48,760 --> 02:29:53,280
Speaker 13: laws that so uh, target actual providers. I mean, I

2499
02:29:53,280 --> 02:29:55,480
Speaker 13: guess you can't really call them trap laws because abortion

2500
02:29:55,520 --> 02:29:56,240
Speaker 13: providers in that.

2501
02:29:56,320 --> 02:29:59,360
Speaker 10: But there's the whole trap thing which not going to

2502
02:29:59,400 --> 02:29:59,840
Speaker 10: get in WITHO.

2503
02:30:01,080 --> 02:30:08,879
Speaker 13: Yeah yeah, abortion services, but yeah. But uh, it's the

2504
02:30:08,920 --> 02:30:13,000
Speaker 13: same like type of restrictions and bands, and we're seeing

2505
02:30:13,000 --> 02:30:16,360
Speaker 13: them spread to those kinds of health care services, so

2506
02:30:16,440 --> 02:30:20,359
Speaker 13: it's impacting other types of health care services. And it's

2507
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:23,480
Speaker 13: I and I'm seeing a lot of the same legal

2508
02:30:23,520 --> 02:30:25,440
Speaker 13: back and forth where it's like, oh, this law went

2509
02:30:25,480 --> 02:30:28,680
Speaker 13: into effectively, for example in Florida, and oh now it's

2510
02:30:28,680 --> 02:30:32,760
Speaker 13: being challenged in court, so it's it's not being it's

2511
02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:35,240
Speaker 13: not enforced right now, so it kind of go back

2512
02:30:35,320 --> 02:30:39,320
Speaker 13: goes back to the way it does before, which I mean,

2513
02:30:39,360 --> 02:30:44,240
Speaker 13: it's always good to see a restriction temporarily paused in

2514
02:30:44,280 --> 02:30:47,600
Speaker 13: a band temporarily paused because that relief is needed. I

2515
02:30:48,360 --> 02:30:51,320
Speaker 13: see that in abortion care. Like when when there is

2516
02:30:51,640 --> 02:30:54,720
Speaker 13: a band that is temporarily reversed by the courts, it

2517
02:30:54,840 --> 02:30:59,080
Speaker 13: is like, thank thank god, I'm so happy, you know,

2518
02:30:59,200 --> 02:31:02,520
Speaker 13: we get some really we can we can see people

2519
02:31:02,600 --> 02:31:06,240
Speaker 13: for their healthcare services tomorrow. However, that back and forth

2520
02:31:06,400 --> 02:31:10,760
Speaker 13: is incredibly confusing and creates confusion and chaos on a

2521
02:31:11,680 --> 02:31:13,800
Speaker 13: like on a mass scale, because it's like can I

2522
02:31:13,840 --> 02:31:16,160
Speaker 13: access these services? Can I not access these services? Can

2523
02:31:16,240 --> 02:31:17,880
Speaker 13: I get these services in the stage where I have

2524
02:31:17,879 --> 02:31:20,840
Speaker 13: to travel out of state? It's more than like the

2525
02:31:20,959 --> 02:31:24,320
Speaker 13: individual can keep up with and confusion is the point.

2526
02:31:24,440 --> 02:31:28,600
Speaker 13: So like when I'm seeing some of these bands related

2527
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:32,160
Speaker 13: to trans health services, I'm like, Okay, you know, I'm

2528
02:31:32,160 --> 02:31:34,680
Speaker 13: glad that I'm pretty sure. I have to admit I

2529
02:31:34,680 --> 02:31:36,360
Speaker 13: have not read the news in the last couple of days,

2530
02:31:36,400 --> 02:31:38,160
Speaker 13: so I don't know if this has been walked back,

2531
02:31:38,200 --> 02:31:40,760
Speaker 13: but it seems like Florida has some relief right now.

2532
02:31:41,200 --> 02:31:43,600
Speaker 13: But I just know what that mass confusion looks like

2533
02:31:43,680 --> 02:31:46,560
Speaker 13: for individuals, And I'm like, this is so similar. Oh

2534
02:31:46,560 --> 02:31:49,560
Speaker 13: my god, this is this is the same type of fight.

2535
02:31:49,800 --> 02:31:50,840
Speaker 13: This is the same fight.

2536
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:55,840
Speaker 10: And and I think, you know, because like this is

2537
02:31:55,840 --> 02:31:59,600
Speaker 10: also another thing with the media is just just like

2538
02:31:59,720 --> 02:32:03,880
Speaker 10: act of accomplices, Like this is this is a kind

2539
02:32:03,879 --> 02:32:09,800
Speaker 10: of thing where like it is really easy to look

2540
02:32:09,840 --> 02:32:12,000
Speaker 10: at this and go like they're doing this on purpose

2541
02:32:12,040 --> 02:32:14,360
Speaker 10: so they can generate fucking horror stories, which I don't

2542
02:32:14,360 --> 02:32:15,800
Speaker 10: think is why they're doing it. I think they're doing

2543
02:32:15,840 --> 02:32:18,280
Speaker 10: it because they're transphobed. But you know, like one of

2544
02:32:18,280 --> 02:32:21,840
Speaker 10: the one of the things is very that's just fucking

2545
02:32:21,879 --> 02:32:25,760
Speaker 10: awful about this stuff is that like the people who

2546
02:32:25,800 --> 02:32:28,760
Speaker 10: are reporting on this don't understand how these laws work.

2547
02:32:29,400 --> 02:32:31,560
Speaker 10: And so you know, like I mean, like I this

2548
02:32:31,640 --> 02:32:33,880
Speaker 10: is my job, right, Like I cover this for a living,

2549
02:32:34,400 --> 02:32:36,800
Speaker 10: and I will read a report about something and I

2550
02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:39,279
Speaker 10: can't tell what the law does because the person writing

2551
02:32:39,920 --> 02:32:43,600
Speaker 10: the fucking there's the stupid ass journalists who they've hired

2552
02:32:43,640 --> 02:32:45,760
Speaker 10: who like have never talked to a transperson in their life,

2553
02:32:46,040 --> 02:32:48,879
Speaker 10: and like are only tangentially aware of what the law is,

2554
02:32:49,280 --> 02:32:52,880
Speaker 10: like like the concept of the law is something they

2555
02:32:52,879 --> 02:32:55,880
Speaker 10: were introduced to two years ago. Like they don't fuck

2556
02:32:55,920 --> 02:32:57,720
Speaker 10: they don't fucking know what these bills do, right, so

2557
02:32:57,720 --> 02:32:59,400
Speaker 10: you have to like go actually read the bill, But

2558
02:32:59,440 --> 02:33:01,440
Speaker 10: that doesn't help because you know this this is yeah,

2559
02:33:01,440 --> 02:33:02,760
Speaker 10: this is like this is I think a very similar

2560
02:33:02,760 --> 02:33:06,120
Speaker 10: strategy of like there's there's this way in which like

2561
02:33:06,320 --> 02:33:11,680
Speaker 10: constant onslaught constant sort of confusion, constant terror. And also

2562
02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:15,199
Speaker 10: you know and the way that the strategy right now

2563
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:18,160
Speaker 10: that that is being sort of relied on the stop

2564
02:33:18,240 --> 02:33:20,640
Speaker 10: this stuff is to the courts that that is very

2565
02:33:20,640 --> 02:33:23,760
Speaker 10: similar to what the entire struggle over abortion wies look like.

2566
02:33:23,920 --> 02:33:26,720
Speaker 10: And you know, we know how that ended it. It

2567
02:33:26,760 --> 02:33:30,320
Speaker 10: doesn't It didn't work, and it's not going to work

2568
02:33:30,360 --> 02:33:33,720
Speaker 10: with with with transpertes either, and like it, and and

2569
02:33:33,800 --> 02:33:35,640
Speaker 10: you know, and I think something that like we're we're

2570
02:33:35,680 --> 02:33:38,240
Speaker 10: going to see more of as you know, because like

2571
02:33:38,240 --> 02:33:40,440
Speaker 10: a water some of these bands will be struck down,

2572
02:33:41,160 --> 02:33:42,560
Speaker 10: but you know you're gonna get the abortion thing where

2573
02:33:42,560 --> 02:33:44,800
Speaker 10: it's like okay, so you like one bag gets struck down,

2574
02:33:44,800 --> 02:33:46,440
Speaker 10: so they pass another one. Then you just keep passing

2575
02:33:46,480 --> 02:33:48,600
Speaker 10: them until they can find one that their fucking judges

2576
02:33:48,640 --> 02:33:49,760
Speaker 10: will make.

2577
02:33:49,879 --> 02:33:52,560
Speaker 13: Yeah, and they like reintroduce bills that are like practically

2578
02:33:52,560 --> 02:33:54,640
Speaker 13: the same thing but like slightly different, and they just

2579
02:33:54,680 --> 02:34:01,600
Speaker 13: like retry stuff after doing like political shenanigans and and

2580
02:34:01,600 --> 02:34:04,160
Speaker 13: and we're still we're still doing the legal back and

2581
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:06,280
Speaker 13: forth approach. And abortion care like it's still the same thing,

2582
02:34:06,400 --> 02:34:10,480
Speaker 13: like it hasn't changed. And seeing that also happen, it's like, well,

2583
02:34:10,560 --> 02:34:13,360
Speaker 13: people need health care now, like with abortion care and

2584
02:34:13,400 --> 02:34:17,440
Speaker 13: trans healthcare, it's like you need that health care when

2585
02:34:17,480 --> 02:34:21,960
Speaker 13: you need it, like right now today tomorrow, and when

2586
02:34:22,000 --> 02:34:25,320
Speaker 13: there is confusion and this back like the because the

2587
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:29,320
Speaker 13: courts take forever like it, it's and it changes a lot,

2588
02:34:29,360 --> 02:34:31,240
Speaker 13: and it's confusing when you see the news stories like

2589
02:34:31,280 --> 02:34:34,680
Speaker 13: you were saying, So it's interfering and lowering the quality

2590
02:34:34,680 --> 02:34:37,920
Speaker 13: of accessing like lowering the quality of that healthcare and

2591
02:34:37,959 --> 02:34:40,080
Speaker 13: accessing that health care like the experience of accessing that

2592
02:34:40,120 --> 02:34:45,160
Speaker 13: health care now like today. And it's it's cumulative because

2593
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:49,160
Speaker 13: like you, you lose the ability to keep track of

2594
02:34:49,240 --> 02:34:50,680
Speaker 13: what you have the right to do and what you

2595
02:34:50,720 --> 02:34:55,160
Speaker 13: don't and and these are these are the same, like

2596
02:34:55,160 --> 02:34:57,760
Speaker 13: they are issues of controlling your life and your body

2597
02:34:58,920 --> 02:35:01,760
Speaker 13: and of privacy is well, you know, your ability, it's

2598
02:35:01,760 --> 02:35:05,880
Speaker 13: like your business. It's your body, and the state is

2599
02:35:05,879 --> 02:35:10,640
Speaker 13: getting in the way. And and it hurts so much

2600
02:35:10,760 --> 02:35:15,480
Speaker 13: to see this happening to even more people, because it's

2601
02:35:15,680 --> 02:35:18,760
Speaker 13: it's hard enough watching what happens to people who need

2602
02:35:18,760 --> 02:35:22,160
Speaker 13: abortions and seeing what they go through, and then having

2603
02:35:22,160 --> 02:35:24,880
Speaker 13: to see even more people who are also trying to

2604
02:35:24,920 --> 02:35:28,000
Speaker 13: access healthcare to help them have control over their lives

2605
02:35:28,000 --> 02:35:32,160
Speaker 13: and their bodies also having that, you know, having that

2606
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:35,280
Speaker 13: impeded and and and and taken away from them too

2607
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:37,920
Speaker 13: with a different type of health care, and seeing like

2608
02:35:38,120 --> 02:35:41,400
Speaker 13: that is just like, oh my god, Like not only

2609
02:35:41,480 --> 02:35:46,360
Speaker 13: were we able, we were not able to maintain these

2610
02:35:46,400 --> 02:35:51,520
Speaker 13: services in this country, and we're also seeing it happened

2611
02:35:51,520 --> 02:35:55,119
Speaker 13: to another type of health care. And and another thing

2612
02:35:55,200 --> 02:35:58,680
Speaker 13: too is like abortion providers are also trans healthcare providers.

2613
02:35:58,680 --> 02:36:02,000
Speaker 13: Like yeah, it's it's like body stuff. It's like you know,

2614
02:36:02,240 --> 02:36:05,520
Speaker 13: like it's they're they're like often the same building.

2615
02:36:05,680 --> 02:36:09,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, like plant planned parenthood does both. Yeah, people who

2616
02:36:09,160 --> 02:36:11,119
Speaker 10: get runs through your planned parenthood.

2617
02:36:10,760 --> 02:36:13,959
Speaker 13: Because and a lot of independent clinics to a lot

2618
02:36:13,959 --> 02:36:17,080
Speaker 13: of independent abortion providers also provide trans healthcare as well.

2619
02:36:17,480 --> 02:36:21,279
Speaker 13: And gender hormones, uh, gender hormone. I keep saying gender hormone,

2620
02:36:21,560 --> 02:36:27,160
Speaker 13: even though that doesn't make any hormone therapy services and

2621
02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:29,520
Speaker 13: gender for me, I feel like I'm like combining those together.

2622
02:36:29,600 --> 02:36:32,119
Speaker 13: But they offer both.

2623
02:36:32,879 --> 02:36:35,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, But but that also means that like if you

2624
02:36:35,480 --> 02:36:38,360
Speaker 10: if if you knock out a clinic for like for

2625
02:36:38,520 --> 02:36:40,800
Speaker 10: one of the reasons, you've also knocked out the services

2626
02:36:40,800 --> 02:36:43,480
Speaker 10: for everyone else too, righte. So like it's you know,

2627
02:36:43,680 --> 02:36:46,160
Speaker 10: and I think this is something that's very important about

2628
02:36:46,240 --> 02:36:48,000
Speaker 10: the way the right seas is that the right seas

2629
02:36:48,080 --> 02:36:53,360
Speaker 10: this has the same fight very clearly, and that I

2630
02:36:53,400 --> 02:36:56,960
Speaker 10: don't know. I mean, I think I think in terms

2631
02:36:56,959 --> 02:37:00,160
Speaker 10: of the people who actually do organizing, I think it's

2632
02:37:00,200 --> 02:37:02,520
Speaker 10: it like it's understood that it is the same fight,

2633
02:37:02,560 --> 02:37:04,959
Speaker 10: but I don't think it is as much in the

2634
02:37:05,040 --> 02:37:08,200
Speaker 10: general republic, even though the like for the people you're

2635
02:37:08,240 --> 02:37:13,160
Speaker 10: fighting against, they are you know, incredibly like viscerally and

2636
02:37:13,160 --> 02:37:18,880
Speaker 10: disturbingly clear about like what they want to do and

2637
02:37:18,920 --> 02:37:22,280
Speaker 10: about the fact that you know, like destroying people's autonomies

2638
02:37:22,280 --> 02:37:25,680
Speaker 10: and using the state to take control of me just

2639
02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:28,560
Speaker 10: like literally physically take control of their bodies and define

2640
02:37:28,760 --> 02:37:31,240
Speaker 10: what they are, which is something they do, like you

2641
02:37:31,280 --> 02:37:32,440
Speaker 10: know what I mean, then this is this is this

2642
02:37:32,440 --> 02:37:35,280
Speaker 10: is the thing that's been happening in these anti transpils too,

2643
02:37:35,360 --> 02:37:38,680
Speaker 10: is like they've been like like legally defining what a

2644
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:43,080
Speaker 10: woman is by like reproductive apparatuses and stuff like that.

2645
02:37:43,720 --> 02:37:49,800
Speaker 13: Yeah, and that that's disgusting and and and it makes

2646
02:37:49,840 --> 02:37:53,120
Speaker 13: me feel just like disgusted as like just like seeing

2647
02:37:53,120 --> 02:37:54,560
Speaker 13: that because like I feel like I don't even like

2648
02:37:54,760 --> 02:37:58,000
Speaker 13: fit some of the criteria that no as a says woman.

2649
02:37:58,160 --> 02:38:00,440
Speaker 13: I feel like it like and I'm just like oh

2650
02:38:00,440 --> 02:38:05,000
Speaker 13: my god. And we're also like we're punishing people for

2651
02:38:05,360 --> 02:38:09,760
Speaker 13: not having like perfect health and like perfect pregnancies and

2652
02:38:10,680 --> 02:38:13,039
Speaker 13: being born into the body that you know what I mean,

2653
02:38:13,080 --> 02:38:15,720
Speaker 13: Like people are being punished for not being the ideal

2654
02:38:16,160 --> 02:38:19,800
Speaker 13: cause like and I've asked, I've like stupidly asked this

2655
02:38:19,840 --> 02:38:24,080
Speaker 13: out loud, where I'm like, you know, I've asked out loud,

2656
02:38:24,200 --> 02:38:29,600
Speaker 13: like why are these bands so restrictive where people who

2657
02:38:29,640 --> 02:38:33,039
Speaker 13: are pregnant and you know, like they're just not having

2658
02:38:33,400 --> 02:38:37,199
Speaker 13: a perfect pregnancy, like there are complications like which which happened,

2659
02:38:37,560 --> 02:38:39,400
Speaker 13: and they're like being punished for not having the perfect

2660
02:38:39,400 --> 02:38:42,280
Speaker 13: pregnancy by these laws, like these abortion restrictions. And I'm

2661
02:38:42,320 --> 02:38:44,520
Speaker 13: like why would they do that, Like why like how

2662
02:38:44,560 --> 02:38:47,480
Speaker 13: can you not know that pregnancies go wrong? And how

2663
02:38:47,480 --> 02:38:49,320
Speaker 13: would you not know that? And then somebody said to

2664
02:38:49,400 --> 02:38:51,680
Speaker 13: me they were like, well, you know, like E've was

2665
02:38:51,760 --> 02:38:55,200
Speaker 13: punished with the ability with dangerous pregnancies, like if you

2666
02:38:55,240 --> 02:38:58,560
Speaker 13: look at their religion, like it was a punishment. So

2667
02:38:58,640 --> 02:39:00,800
Speaker 13: I'm like, yeah, like they're they just believe we should

2668
02:39:00,800 --> 02:39:03,320
Speaker 13: be like punished for not being born in the right body,

2669
02:39:03,600 --> 02:39:08,400
Speaker 13: not having the perfect pregnancy, not wanting a pregnancy, you know,

2670
02:39:08,480 --> 02:39:12,400
Speaker 13: like you're being punished for not and having the ideal

2671
02:39:12,480 --> 02:39:16,840
Speaker 13: because they believe that it is a it's a punishment

2672
02:39:17,080 --> 02:39:18,760
Speaker 13: just like in I guess I'm trying to think of

2673
02:39:18,800 --> 02:39:20,879
Speaker 13: the word like naturally intrinsically or something. I don't know,

2674
02:39:22,280 --> 02:39:25,640
Speaker 13: and I don't subscribe to that ideology, but it's being

2675
02:39:25,640 --> 02:39:26,440
Speaker 13: forced on us.

2676
02:39:26,520 --> 02:39:29,039
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, And I mean I think there's this way

2677
02:39:29,080 --> 02:39:31,160
Speaker 10: in which people have people have this tendency to conceive

2678
02:39:31,440 --> 02:39:35,320
Speaker 10: of like neoliberalism, right specifically as this thing that's about

2679
02:39:35,360 --> 02:39:38,920
Speaker 10: like the retreat, the retreat of state power, and that's

2680
02:39:38,959 --> 02:39:41,840
Speaker 10: never been what it is, right what Like you know,

2681
02:39:41,879 --> 02:39:44,000
Speaker 10: if you if you look at what neoliberalism actually looks like,

2682
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:46,880
Speaker 10: it's fucking abortion bands, right, Like the people who are

2683
02:39:46,879 --> 02:39:49,480
Speaker 10: pushing that are the people who push Reagan into office.

2684
02:39:50,040 --> 02:39:52,760
Speaker 10: The actual point of the state in neoliberalism and this

2685
02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:55,000
Speaker 10: and you know, and this is one that's incredibly compatible

2686
02:39:55,120 --> 02:39:57,680
Speaker 10: with the sort of like with the sort of religious

2687
02:39:57,680 --> 02:39:59,800
Speaker 10: fascists that they allied themselves with in order to come

2688
02:39:59,800 --> 02:40:03,160
Speaker 10: into power. Right, the way that's actually manifested is is

2689
02:40:03,280 --> 02:40:06,680
Speaker 10: just through the state directly taking control of your body.

2690
02:40:07,080 --> 02:40:09,760
Speaker 10: Because you know, like people, people aren't actually fucking natural

2691
02:40:09,800 --> 02:40:13,520
Speaker 10: market subjects. They're not Like a woman is not as

2692
02:40:13,560 --> 02:40:16,400
Speaker 10: as these like stupid assholes always insist is like, oh,

2693
02:40:16,520 --> 02:40:18,840
Speaker 10: someone who gives birth, Like no, that's just like not true.

2694
02:40:18,840 --> 02:40:21,680
Speaker 10: That's not true. It's not and so and because it's

2695
02:40:21,720 --> 02:40:24,200
Speaker 10: not right. But people, because that's the image that they

2696
02:40:24,280 --> 02:40:26,880
Speaker 10: have to like force you into. The only way they

2697
02:40:26,879 --> 02:40:28,800
Speaker 10: can do that is by using state violence to physically

2698
02:40:28,800 --> 02:40:30,440
Speaker 10: take control as your body and shape you into the

2699
02:40:30,480 --> 02:40:31,320
Speaker 10: thing that they think you are.

2700
02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:35,800
Speaker 13: Yep, yep. And and they're like none of this stuff

2701
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:39,720
Speaker 13: is siloed, like you know, like pregnancy is related to abortion,

2702
02:40:39,800 --> 02:40:43,400
Speaker 13: care is related to just like trans care is like

2703
02:40:43,440 --> 02:40:47,320
Speaker 13: embedded in all of that as well. Uh, trans people

2704
02:40:47,360 --> 02:40:50,720
Speaker 13: get pregnant and have abortions. And also in terms of

2705
02:40:50,760 --> 02:40:54,840
Speaker 13: hormone therapy more like you know, like people besides trans

2706
02:40:54,920 --> 02:40:57,600
Speaker 13: people need hormone therapy as well. Like, like none of

2707
02:40:57,600 --> 02:41:00,800
Speaker 13: these things are a silo by themselves. They're all kind

2708
02:41:00,840 --> 02:41:04,959
Speaker 13: of embedded together, and the effect of that is that

2709
02:41:05,000 --> 02:41:07,760
Speaker 13: it's kind of become impossible to be a doctor and

2710
02:41:07,800 --> 02:41:11,920
Speaker 13: a healthcare provider for a lot of these services because

2711
02:41:11,959 --> 02:41:15,120
Speaker 13: they're so entwined and because like you know, we all

2712
02:41:15,520 --> 02:41:18,320
Speaker 13: we have our bodies, and like our bodies aren't in

2713
02:41:18,480 --> 02:41:21,959
Speaker 13: separate like can take our body parts, aren't in separate containers,

2714
02:41:22,000 --> 02:41:24,200
Speaker 13: Like they're all like we're like all connected, Like it's

2715
02:41:24,240 --> 02:41:27,080
Speaker 13: all connected, and you can't really have one without the other.

2716
02:41:27,680 --> 02:41:33,400
Speaker 13: And now we're seeing doctors who can't safely do there

2717
02:41:33,680 --> 02:41:35,879
Speaker 13: what they have to do, like provide like the healthcare

2718
02:41:35,959 --> 02:41:41,240
Speaker 13: to like appropriate medical standards within these laws that exist.

2719
02:41:41,480 --> 02:41:44,080
Speaker 13: So you see doctors who are like, wow, I can't

2720
02:41:44,080 --> 02:41:47,640
Speaker 13: actually perform the healthcare that I need to perform without

2721
02:41:47,760 --> 02:41:50,600
Speaker 13: potentially losing my license, so I'm just going to leave

2722
02:41:50,600 --> 02:41:53,400
Speaker 13: the state. So you see a lot of doctors. Uh,

2723
02:41:53,440 --> 02:41:55,640
Speaker 13: there's been a lot of news stories about doctors, particularly

2724
02:41:57,000 --> 02:41:58,680
Speaker 13: the ones that I've seen. I'm sure that there's other

2725
02:41:58,720 --> 02:42:01,480
Speaker 13: types of doctors too, but like you know, obstetricians and

2726
02:42:02,000 --> 02:42:07,240
Speaker 13: obgyns who are leaving states because they cannot safely practice

2727
02:42:07,800 --> 02:42:11,160
Speaker 13: the medicine as it's as you know, as science and

2728
02:42:11,240 --> 02:42:14,720
Speaker 13: medicine wants them to, you know that without risking losing

2729
02:42:14,760 --> 02:42:17,080
Speaker 13: their license. So they're just leaving and these are states

2730
02:42:17,080 --> 02:42:19,560
Speaker 13: that need those doctors. I mean, there's a lot that

2731
02:42:19,600 --> 02:42:23,080
Speaker 13: can be said about maternal and infomortality rates in the

2732
02:42:23,160 --> 02:42:25,840
Speaker 13: United States. So the fact that you have obg i

2733
02:42:25,959 --> 02:42:30,800
Speaker 13: ns like fleeing states, and I'm sure these are states

2734
02:42:30,840 --> 02:42:34,760
Speaker 13: that need those doctors and have low standard like low

2735
02:42:35,640 --> 02:42:40,840
Speaker 13: or have just like low quality outcomes or like bad

2736
02:42:40,879 --> 02:42:45,360
Speaker 13: outcomes when it comes to maternal and infomortality. And you're

2737
02:42:45,400 --> 02:42:47,119
Speaker 13: seeing this and it's like, well, this is just making

2738
02:42:47,160 --> 02:42:50,199
Speaker 13: all kinds of health care worse, Like it's becoming less

2739
02:42:50,320 --> 02:42:52,640
Speaker 13: safe to just be pregnant in general, even if you

2740
02:42:52,640 --> 02:42:56,560
Speaker 13: are caring and delivering a pregnancy in these states. And

2741
02:42:56,640 --> 02:42:58,880
Speaker 13: I'm sure that you're going to see this also happen

2742
02:42:59,280 --> 02:43:02,560
Speaker 13: because of these trans healthcare bands and say you're going

2743
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:05,160
Speaker 13: to see doctors fleeing in areas in which those doctors

2744
02:43:05,160 --> 02:43:08,160
Speaker 13: are needed because they are risk of losing their license

2745
02:43:08,160 --> 02:43:09,560
Speaker 13: and not being able to practice.

2746
02:43:10,640 --> 02:43:10,879
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2747
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:12,880
Speaker 10: And another thing I think that's very similar between these

2748
02:43:12,879 --> 02:43:14,840
Speaker 10: two things is like there's just not that you know,

2749
02:43:15,120 --> 02:43:18,080
Speaker 10: we've we've talked about this more broadly, like in a

2750
02:43:18,080 --> 02:43:19,400
Speaker 10: lot of the and and a lot of the comforts

2751
02:43:19,440 --> 02:43:21,760
Speaker 10: are like I've done on the show about labor stuff,

2752
02:43:21,959 --> 02:43:26,600
Speaker 10: my healthcare. Labor is that like just everywhere, even even

2753
02:43:26,600 --> 02:43:28,600
Speaker 10: in even in sectors where like there's no there's no

2754
02:43:28,640 --> 02:43:31,280
Speaker 10: sort of legal threat, right, there's They're just massive labor

2755
02:43:31,320 --> 02:43:35,120
Speaker 10: shortages because these these for these for profit healthcare companies

2756
02:43:35,240 --> 02:43:37,840
Speaker 10: are you know, don't want to fucking bring in another

2757
02:43:37,840 --> 02:43:39,840
Speaker 10: person on a shift because that costing more money and

2758
02:43:39,840 --> 02:43:43,080
Speaker 10: that's less money than they can pocket. And you know,

2759
02:43:43,200 --> 02:43:45,880
Speaker 10: and yeah, and and and and but and both both

2760
02:43:45,959 --> 02:43:50,560
Speaker 10: abortion services and trans healthcare are fields. I mean there

2761
02:43:50,600 --> 02:43:54,600
Speaker 10: are just there's just not that many people. Like they're

2762
02:43:54,640 --> 02:43:57,440
Speaker 10: just like the the the numbers are so small that

2763
02:43:57,520 --> 02:44:00,360
Speaker 10: like like I can I can ask my friends and

2764
02:44:00,400 --> 02:44:03,640
Speaker 10: they know like every provider in the city.

2765
02:44:02,920 --> 02:44:08,160
Speaker 13: Yep, oh yeah, and it's like two providers, yeah, like

2766
02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:09,879
Speaker 13: like two places to get hormones.

2767
02:44:10,040 --> 02:44:12,240
Speaker 14: It's like and and this and and again this isn't

2768
02:44:12,240 --> 02:44:13,960
Speaker 14: like I live in Chicago, right, this is a place

2769
02:44:14,000 --> 02:44:16,800
Speaker 14: where it's like it's pretty easy to get hormones, right

2770
02:44:16,800 --> 02:44:18,160
Speaker 14: compared to I mean this is this is like one

2771
02:44:18,200 --> 02:44:21,160
Speaker 14: narratively yeah, well but I mean like genuiney like this

2772
02:44:21,240 --> 02:44:22,360
Speaker 14: is a this is the thing we you know, this

2773
02:44:22,440 --> 02:44:23,600
Speaker 14: is like if you want to get like look at

2774
02:44:23,600 --> 02:44:26,240
Speaker 14: other parallels. Right, this is like Chicago has always been

2775
02:44:26,320 --> 02:44:29,119
Speaker 14: I mean not always, but for I mean like half

2776
02:44:29,160 --> 02:44:31,400
Speaker 14: a century, probably longer than that, has been a place

2777
02:44:31,440 --> 02:44:34,760
Speaker 14: where people like trans people from around the country, particularly

2778
02:44:34,760 --> 02:44:38,680
Speaker 14: from the South, have like uprooted their lives and fled

2779
02:44:38,720 --> 02:44:40,440
Speaker 14: to because it was a place where you could actually

2780
02:44:40,480 --> 02:44:44,520
Speaker 14: get care and you know, but like but even here,

2781
02:44:44,680 --> 02:44:46,120
Speaker 14: it's fucking hard as ship.

2782
02:44:46,400 --> 02:44:48,560
Speaker 13: Like yeah, it's really.

2783
02:44:48,280 --> 02:44:49,959
Speaker 10: Hard, and you know, and and a lot like the

2784
02:44:50,120 --> 02:44:52,640
Speaker 10: like like my one of one of the local clinics

2785
02:44:52,680 --> 02:44:54,960
Speaker 10: has been on strike for months and months and months

2786
02:44:55,000 --> 02:44:58,400
Speaker 10: because they're the place that they work for, like slash

2787
02:44:58,440 --> 02:45:01,320
Speaker 10: a bunch of services, and so in this like this

2788
02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:04,640
Speaker 10: this kind of struggle is you know, like this is

2789
02:45:04,680 --> 02:45:06,320
Speaker 10: this is the thing that's happening in places where it's

2790
02:45:06,440 --> 02:45:10,480
Speaker 10: even where it's legal, and then suddenly the state bans it,

2791
02:45:10,520 --> 02:45:13,640
Speaker 10: and suddenly, you know, people are leaving the field, people

2792
02:45:13,640 --> 02:45:15,959
Speaker 10: are leaving states. Becomes even harder, the services that already

2793
02:45:16,000 --> 02:45:18,120
Speaker 10: exist just even more over tax and it's just like

2794
02:45:18,160 --> 02:45:22,360
Speaker 10: it's the exact same like collapse just like rippling through

2795
02:45:22,400 --> 02:45:23,320
Speaker 10: the entire sector.

2796
02:45:24,520 --> 02:45:30,200
Speaker 13: And none of these jobs pay a lot either, Like yeah,

2797
02:45:30,240 --> 02:45:34,360
Speaker 13: like I just in general, like I'm sure, like I'm

2798
02:45:34,360 --> 02:45:37,480
Speaker 13: not citing a specific job, but I'm sure that's there

2799
02:45:37,520 --> 02:45:42,840
Speaker 13: are abortion providers like who are like medical assistants and

2800
02:45:42,920 --> 02:45:46,320
Speaker 13: hormone therapy like medical assistants that are making like fifteen

2801
02:45:46,400 --> 02:45:50,200
Speaker 13: bucks an hour, which is ridiculous considering you're also being

2802
02:45:50,240 --> 02:45:56,240
Speaker 13: threatened with violence. You're also having to deal with patients

2803
02:45:56,280 --> 02:46:00,080
Speaker 13: who who are also experiencing the same national health crisis

2804
02:46:00,120 --> 02:46:03,120
Speaker 13: that you are, Like you're experiencing it together, Like this

2805
02:46:03,200 --> 02:46:05,280
Speaker 13: is something like it's not like, oh, I'm suffering by

2806
02:46:05,320 --> 02:46:08,480
Speaker 13: myself as a worker, or oh, these patients are suffering

2807
02:46:08,520 --> 02:46:10,360
Speaker 13: as individual I mean they are suffering into visual but

2808
02:46:10,400 --> 02:46:12,480
Speaker 13: you know, like they're not suffering alone as individuals. They're

2809
02:46:12,520 --> 02:46:16,720
Speaker 13: experiencing like the same sort of like grief is like

2810
02:46:16,720 --> 02:46:18,440
Speaker 13: a lot of the other people who are accessing the

2811
02:46:18,440 --> 02:46:21,280
Speaker 13: same services as them. And it's like, while we are

2812
02:46:21,360 --> 02:46:28,920
Speaker 13: all in this sinking boat together, and and it's so

2813
02:46:29,160 --> 02:46:34,440
Speaker 13: hard to recruit into these roles, so like we need

2814
02:46:34,480 --> 02:46:39,720
Speaker 13: more more abortion care and trans health providers, and it's

2815
02:46:39,760 --> 02:46:42,279
Speaker 13: hard to get people to commit to that when you

2816
02:46:42,280 --> 02:46:46,000
Speaker 13: you can't live on that and you can't sustain that,

2817
02:46:46,200 --> 02:46:47,800
Speaker 13: like you can't stay in that job and keep doing

2818
02:46:47,840 --> 02:46:52,520
Speaker 13: it for years when you're literally being like you're you're

2819
02:46:52,560 --> 02:46:56,240
Speaker 13: you're being traumatized, you're experiencing suffering, You're witnessing suffering.

2820
02:46:56,400 --> 02:46:58,800
Speaker 10: No, I mean that I'm killed like that, that's a

2821
02:46:58,879 --> 02:47:01,680
Speaker 10: real thing that happens to threatened. Yeah, like.

2822
02:47:03,800 --> 02:47:07,840
Speaker 13: Just like like violent threats are something that both types

2823
02:47:07,879 --> 02:47:12,560
Speaker 13: of health services have in common now, which is so depressing,

2824
02:47:13,160 --> 02:47:17,960
Speaker 13: but uh, it's we're all we're all being threatened by

2825
02:47:18,200 --> 02:47:20,920
Speaker 13: by the right and by fascists. Like I try to

2826
02:47:20,959 --> 02:47:24,080
Speaker 13: like sometimes it's like the right conservatives, I'm like, they're fascists.

2827
02:47:24,160 --> 02:47:25,720
Speaker 13: They're there, it's fascism.

2828
02:47:25,959 --> 02:47:27,800
Speaker 10: There's literally like a lot of these people like to

2829
02:47:27,879 --> 02:47:29,879
Speaker 10: show up to this stuff. It's it's like it's literally

2830
02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:31,879
Speaker 10: the same groups as proud boys who show up to

2831
02:47:31,920 --> 02:47:34,360
Speaker 10: like different things over and over again, and they get

2832
02:47:34,360 --> 02:47:38,680
Speaker 10: relabeled by the media as like concerned parents or like

2833
02:47:39,000 --> 02:47:42,280
Speaker 10: the Christian outreach groups, depending on like what thing they're at.

2834
02:47:42,360 --> 02:47:45,200
Speaker 10: It's like, okay, these no, like these are fascists who

2835
02:47:45,200 --> 02:47:48,520
Speaker 10: tried to overthrow the governments and seize power like this,

2836
02:47:48,520 --> 02:47:49,920
Speaker 10: this is this, this is three years ago.

2837
02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:53,440
Speaker 13: Like come on, yeah, like these are people who are

2838
02:47:53,480 --> 02:47:58,200
Speaker 13: actually they are ruining the lives of my loved ones

2839
02:47:58,240 --> 02:48:00,720
Speaker 13: and people in my community, like my neighbors like they

2840
02:48:00,720 --> 02:48:05,080
Speaker 13: are ruining my and my neighbors' lives like actively in

2841
02:48:05,160 --> 02:48:09,880
Speaker 13: ways that are just getting worse. So it is one

2842
02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:15,320
Speaker 13: fight I really want everyone to realize that. I feel

2843
02:48:15,360 --> 02:48:19,720
Speaker 13: like it is being realized more and more now. But

2844
02:48:20,120 --> 02:48:22,160
Speaker 13: you know, the more people who learn it, the better

2845
02:48:23,640 --> 02:48:28,120
Speaker 13: and the ways in which just I just feel like

2846
02:48:28,200 --> 02:48:33,920
Speaker 13: the DABS decision and the overturn of Robi Wade meant

2847
02:48:33,959 --> 02:48:37,039
Speaker 13: more than just people couldn't get abortions. I think it's

2848
02:48:37,600 --> 02:48:40,240
Speaker 13: just the destruction of healthcare in general in this country

2849
02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:45,800
Speaker 13: and it turned it into like just like a mad

2850
02:48:45,879 --> 02:48:49,560
Speaker 13: dash to do the exact same thing to health services

2851
02:48:49,560 --> 02:48:50,560
Speaker 13: that trans people need.

2852
02:48:50,959 --> 02:48:57,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, so fun another one of the parts of this fight,

2853
02:48:57,640 --> 02:49:00,800
Speaker 10: and I think the part of this fight that is

2854
02:49:00,879 --> 02:49:05,480
Speaker 10: the least popular in terms of like who will actually

2855
02:49:05,600 --> 02:49:11,120
Speaker 10: back you, which is both like healthcare workers both doing

2856
02:49:11,160 --> 02:49:15,000
Speaker 10: abortion care and who during trans healthcare fighting what is

2857
02:49:15,080 --> 02:49:18,680
Speaker 10: essentially like a three way war where they are they

2858
02:49:18,680 --> 02:49:21,040
Speaker 10: are under assault from the right and from the state

2859
02:49:21,080 --> 02:49:23,720
Speaker 10: who are trying to criminalize the healthcare that they provide

2860
02:49:24,160 --> 02:49:27,400
Speaker 10: and you know, directly target them through trap laws and

2861
02:49:27,440 --> 02:49:30,760
Speaker 10: through that. I don't we need to figure out what

2862
02:49:30,879 --> 02:49:34,400
Speaker 10: their name for the version of the anti translorts. But

2863
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:37,160
Speaker 10: you know, so they're being specifically targeted by the state,

2864
02:49:37,240 --> 02:49:40,600
Speaker 10: and then they're also fighting a conflict with their own

2865
02:49:40,600 --> 02:49:44,200
Speaker 10: employers and whether that's whether that's private healthcare providers or

2866
02:49:44,280 --> 02:49:47,040
Speaker 10: that's NGOs who are you know, don't want to pay

2867
02:49:47,040 --> 02:49:51,039
Speaker 10: them shit, you know, our funnel are funneling all of

2868
02:49:51,040 --> 02:49:55,960
Speaker 10: this fucking money into paying somebody's fucking dipshit cousin like

2869
02:49:56,120 --> 02:49:59,520
Speaker 10: three hundred thousand dollars a year to be like the

2870
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:07,119
Speaker 10: device executive director of like policy marketing or something. And yeah,

2871
02:50:07,160 --> 02:50:08,600
Speaker 10: and and and the way, the way in which you

2872
02:50:08,640 --> 02:50:10,520
Speaker 10: know this this is this has turned into a union

2873
02:50:10,600 --> 02:50:16,520
Speaker 10: struggle that is deeply like it kind of in a

2874
02:50:16,520 --> 02:50:19,520
Speaker 10: lot of ways, deeply unpopular among liberals because they just

2875
02:50:19,840 --> 02:50:26,080
Speaker 10: don't they don't see like healthcare providers as workers.

2876
02:50:26,320 --> 02:50:32,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, it has been such a strange experience union organizing

2877
02:50:33,080 --> 02:50:39,240
Speaker 13: and and and contract negotiating during a national health crisis.

2878
02:50:39,240 --> 02:50:41,840
Speaker 13: And after the fall up Ruby Wait, it was so like,

2879
02:50:42,120 --> 02:50:44,200
Speaker 13: you know, ruby Wait is overturned and we got to

2880
02:50:44,200 --> 02:50:46,440
Speaker 13: go to the barging table, and that's where money and

2881
02:50:46,520 --> 02:50:50,240
Speaker 13: it's it's it's definitely it's it's it's really hard because

2882
02:50:50,320 --> 02:50:53,600
Speaker 13: this stress is so compounded for all of the workers.

2883
02:50:55,080 --> 02:51:00,360
Speaker 13: And I know I've had uh peers in the kemmunity

2884
02:51:00,440 --> 02:51:03,879
Speaker 13: and the abortion providing and abortion advocacy community say things like,

2885
02:51:04,160 --> 02:51:06,000
Speaker 13: you know, you expect a snake to be a snake,

2886
02:51:06,200 --> 02:51:09,240
Speaker 13: Like you know that the right is going to attack

2887
02:51:09,320 --> 02:51:12,680
Speaker 13: you and the fascists are going to do whatever they

2888
02:51:12,720 --> 02:51:15,720
Speaker 13: can to take away your right to autonomy and privacy.

2889
02:51:17,200 --> 02:51:19,840
Speaker 13: But it hurts a lot more. Like personally, I think

2890
02:51:19,920 --> 02:51:22,920
Speaker 13: it hurts so much more. And it's been so painful

2891
02:51:23,000 --> 02:51:25,360
Speaker 13: in the last year to see the ways in which

2892
02:51:25,640 --> 02:51:27,400
Speaker 13: the people on our side, the people who have the

2893
02:51:27,400 --> 02:51:29,520
Speaker 13: same goals as us, ultimately like of like, you know,

2894
02:51:29,640 --> 02:51:31,800
Speaker 13: we want people to have abortions and we want people

2895
02:51:32,240 --> 02:51:36,640
Speaker 13: to access health care, and they are to have them

2896
02:51:36,720 --> 02:51:40,119
Speaker 13: hurt you, yeah, because yeah, because like they're not supposed

2897
02:51:40,120 --> 02:51:45,000
Speaker 13: to be snakes, And it hurts. It hurts a lot more.

2898
02:51:45,800 --> 02:51:49,680
Speaker 13: And a lot of the same people don't. I feel

2899
02:51:49,680 --> 02:51:53,039
Speaker 13: like they're the same kind of folks who didn't understand

2900
02:51:53,040 --> 02:51:57,080
Speaker 13: the immediacy of needing to protect because so you know, LGBT,

2901
02:51:57,440 --> 02:51:59,959
Speaker 13: I feel like we should have gone harder for the tea,

2902
02:52:00,680 --> 02:52:02,680
Speaker 13: you know, like all these years, like how long has

2903
02:52:02,760 --> 02:52:05,920
Speaker 13: we have we had the acronym lgbt and like, and

2904
02:52:05,959 --> 02:52:08,400
Speaker 13: it's like this whole time, it's like we like we

2905
02:52:08,760 --> 02:52:11,600
Speaker 13: could have seen this coming. We shouldn't. It was like

2906
02:52:11,640 --> 02:52:13,200
Speaker 13: it clearly was like the same with Roe v wa

2907
02:52:13,280 --> 02:52:15,640
Speaker 13: where it's like they are coming for Roe v Wade,

2908
02:52:16,000 --> 02:52:18,000
Speaker 13: this is coming. We could have done so much more

2909
02:52:18,040 --> 02:52:20,680
Speaker 13: to prepare. And I feel like in the a lot

2910
02:52:20,720 --> 02:52:22,560
Speaker 13: of the same way, the same people who are like

2911
02:52:22,879 --> 02:52:25,920
Speaker 13: devaluing the labor who didn't do enough to protect abortion

2912
02:52:26,000 --> 02:52:27,680
Speaker 13: services are the same people who didn't do enough to

2913
02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:29,720
Speaker 13: protect just like trans people in general.

2914
02:52:30,080 --> 02:52:33,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I think there's like there's I think there's

2915
02:52:33,000 --> 02:52:35,160
Speaker 10: definitely a sort of expendability thing there too, right, I

2916
02:52:35,200 --> 02:52:38,280
Speaker 10: mean this is something that it's like very explicitly in

2917
02:52:38,320 --> 02:52:43,400
Speaker 10: the two thousands, like the sort of I don't know

2918
02:52:43,440 --> 02:52:45,640
Speaker 10: what the technical term for them is, but like big.

2919
02:52:45,480 --> 02:52:49,320
Speaker 13: Gay, like you know, the big big abortion and big gay.

2920
02:52:49,560 --> 02:52:53,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, well the big the big sort of like LGBTQ

2921
02:52:53,760 --> 02:52:58,680
Speaker 10: like NGOs. Right, You're like human rights campaign like groups

2922
02:52:58,720 --> 02:53:02,120
Speaker 10: like that very explicitly made a decision in the two

2923
02:53:02,120 --> 02:53:07,119
Speaker 10: thousands where they were like, Okay, we're gonna drop our

2924
02:53:07,240 --> 02:53:10,920
Speaker 10: demands for stuff like trans healthcare and trans recognition in

2925
02:53:11,800 --> 02:53:14,039
Speaker 10: order to sort of build a broader base to get

2926
02:53:14,160 --> 02:53:16,160
Speaker 10: like gay marriage and shit. And that that was a

2927
02:53:16,240 --> 02:53:19,520
Speaker 10: very expos decision that they made, and you know, and

2928
02:53:19,560 --> 02:53:21,680
Speaker 10: it worked for them, right, Like yeah, like we got

2929
02:53:21,680 --> 02:53:22,840
Speaker 10: gay marriage, right.

2930
02:53:22,680 --> 02:53:23,199
Speaker 8: Well we didn't.

2931
02:53:23,200 --> 02:53:23,879
Speaker 13: Well we didn't.

2932
02:53:23,920 --> 02:53:26,520
Speaker 10: Actually we got through the fucking courts, not through like

2933
02:53:26,560 --> 02:53:30,240
Speaker 10: the legal process, right, and it took ages too, but

2934
02:53:30,280 --> 02:53:31,720
Speaker 10: like yeah, but like that was you know, and like

2935
02:53:31,760 --> 02:53:33,800
Speaker 10: they they eventually sort of came back around him, were like,

2936
02:53:33,840 --> 02:53:37,160
Speaker 10: we're trans allies. But then you know, all of the

2937
02:53:37,240 --> 02:53:40,000
Speaker 10: shit was happening. I mean, so this has been going

2938
02:53:40,040 --> 02:53:43,560
Speaker 10: on since like twenty like twenty sixteen, right is like

2939
02:53:43,600 --> 02:53:48,000
Speaker 10: the first like the first bathroom bills start, and you know,

2940
02:53:48,200 --> 02:53:51,160
Speaker 10: I mean it was over half a decade where things

2941
02:53:51,200 --> 02:53:54,680
Speaker 10: could have been done and they just weren't. And you know,

2942
02:53:54,879 --> 02:53:57,040
Speaker 10: like it's it's the it's the same thing, like like

2943
02:53:57,400 --> 02:54:01,560
Speaker 10: people just get used as like people's health just gets

2944
02:54:01,560 --> 02:54:03,520
Speaker 10: in their bodies get used as bargaining chips.

2945
02:54:03,840 --> 02:54:04,120
Speaker 11: Yep.

2946
02:54:04,680 --> 02:54:07,039
Speaker 13: And I feel like in these all of these situations

2947
02:54:07,040 --> 02:54:10,080
Speaker 13: that we're talking about, it's not looking out for the

2948
02:54:10,080 --> 02:54:14,560
Speaker 13: most vulnerable because so if you're talking about you know,

2949
02:54:14,680 --> 02:54:18,520
Speaker 13: healthcare and I don't want to say women's rights. I

2950
02:54:18,560 --> 02:54:21,240
Speaker 13: mean it used to be women's rights, and then now

2951
02:54:21,280 --> 02:54:24,960
Speaker 13: it's just like you know, like abortion access and you're

2952
02:54:25,000 --> 02:54:27,959
Speaker 13: not looking like who needs this the most, and you're

2953
02:54:28,000 --> 02:54:30,480
Speaker 13: not looking out for the most vulnerable. And part of

2954
02:54:30,520 --> 02:54:32,760
Speaker 13: that part of it in terms of abortion services is

2955
02:54:33,440 --> 02:54:35,800
Speaker 13: the compromising, you know, compromising on bands like, oh, a

2956
02:54:35,840 --> 02:54:38,600
Speaker 13: fifteen week abortion ban is reasonable. No it's not. No

2957
02:54:38,720 --> 02:54:41,840
Speaker 13: abortion of ban is reasonable. But so that's what abortion services.

2958
02:54:41,879 --> 02:54:46,240
Speaker 13: And then with the fight for queer liberation, you know,

2959
02:54:46,280 --> 02:54:49,200
Speaker 13: who's the most vulnerable will trans people have been the

2960
02:54:49,200 --> 02:54:52,000
Speaker 13: most vulnerable and not looking out for them? And then

2961
02:54:52,120 --> 02:54:54,520
Speaker 13: the frontline workers, Like who's the most vulnerable when it

2962
02:54:54,520 --> 02:54:57,560
Speaker 13: comes to people doing this work providing these services? The

2963
02:54:57,600 --> 02:55:01,040
Speaker 13: frontline workers, the people who don't who don't make much

2964
02:55:01,040 --> 02:55:03,720
Speaker 13: who you know, the people who aren't managers or CEOs

2965
02:55:05,320 --> 02:55:07,560
Speaker 13: and I mean like you know, senior management and CEOs

2966
02:55:07,600 --> 02:55:12,280
Speaker 13: and things like that, are are They're in different situations

2967
02:55:12,280 --> 02:55:14,640
Speaker 13: than the people who are answering the phone and scheduling

2968
02:55:14,680 --> 02:55:17,120
Speaker 13: and talking to the patients and taking their blood pressure

2969
02:55:17,640 --> 02:55:24,480
Speaker 13: and giving them their medication. And yeah, it's just not

2970
02:55:24,600 --> 02:55:28,080
Speaker 13: looking out for the people in the most vulnerable situations.

2971
02:55:27,640 --> 02:55:30,520
Speaker 13: It's killing us. It's literally killing us.

2972
02:55:30,520 --> 02:55:31,000
Speaker 8: You have to.

2973
02:55:32,560 --> 02:55:38,320
Speaker 13: It's just so much focus on the wrong things when

2974
02:55:38,320 --> 02:55:40,760
Speaker 13: we really should be focused on the most vulnerable all

2975
02:55:40,800 --> 02:55:41,160
Speaker 13: around it.

2976
02:55:41,360 --> 02:55:44,520
Speaker 10: And I think also like the extent to which all

2977
02:55:44,560 --> 02:55:47,120
Speaker 10: of these struggles are labor struggles, right, I mean, this

2978
02:55:47,200 --> 02:55:48,840
Speaker 10: is one of the things about trans healthcare as we

2979
02:55:48,920 --> 02:55:52,360
Speaker 10: talked about it that much, is that, like I think

2980
02:55:52,360 --> 02:55:55,800
Speaker 10: this is sort of a product of like the kinds

2981
02:55:55,840 --> 02:56:00,240
Speaker 10: of trans people who get representation. But you like, I

2982
02:56:00,240 --> 02:56:01,400
Speaker 10: think there's a lot of people who think that, like

2983
02:56:01,400 --> 02:56:04,560
Speaker 10: the average transperson is like a fucking tech worker in California,

2984
02:56:04,560 --> 02:56:07,680
Speaker 10: And it's like no, like the like the the the

2985
02:56:07,360 --> 02:56:11,440
Speaker 10: the the actual like median trans person like works at

2986
02:56:11,440 --> 02:56:14,879
Speaker 10: a works at a EPs warehouse or you know, it's

2987
02:56:14,920 --> 02:56:17,800
Speaker 10: like a vet tech or like you know, does all

2988
02:56:17,840 --> 02:56:20,760
Speaker 10: of this shit that you know works like just really

2989
02:56:20,800 --> 02:56:25,160
Speaker 10: shitty service jobs and like you know, the stuff for

2990
02:56:25,240 --> 02:56:27,720
Speaker 10: like like I mean struggles like we're not even having

2991
02:56:28,360 --> 02:56:30,960
Speaker 10: because we're we've been like kicked all the way back

2992
02:56:31,000 --> 02:56:34,200
Speaker 10: down to like can we legally exist? But like you know,

2993
02:56:34,240 --> 02:56:39,440
Speaker 10: things like like people getting housing right, like that that

2994
02:56:39,520 --> 02:56:41,800
Speaker 10: kind of stuff, like those are labor struggles. The struggle

2995
02:56:41,800 --> 02:56:46,160
Speaker 10: for abortion is is also labor struggle because like again,

2996
02:56:46,240 --> 02:56:49,000
Speaker 10: like you can't fucking have abortions without workers who do

2997
02:56:49,040 --> 02:56:51,520
Speaker 10: the abortions. Like they don't, they don't just magically spring

2998
02:56:51,920 --> 02:56:54,800
Speaker 10: fully formed from like the mind of an ngo.

2999
02:56:55,160 --> 02:56:58,680
Speaker 13: Like and also like I mean you need you need

3000
02:56:59,080 --> 02:57:02,519
Speaker 13: labor protections in order to access healthcare. It's just a fact. Yeah,

3001
02:57:02,600 --> 02:57:05,520
Speaker 13: like you know, because that's just yet another obstacle that

3002
02:57:05,560 --> 02:57:09,040
Speaker 13: patients are experiencing, is getting off work. Like yeah, you

3003
02:57:09,120 --> 02:57:11,720
Speaker 13: got kids and you got to like fly to like

3004
02:57:11,760 --> 02:57:15,200
Speaker 13: across the country to access healthcare services, and you got

3005
02:57:15,240 --> 02:57:18,800
Speaker 13: to recover from those healthcare services, and it's like you

3006
02:57:18,840 --> 02:57:20,720
Speaker 13: got to have PTO and like how many people don't

3007
02:57:20,760 --> 02:57:20,959
Speaker 13: have that?

3008
02:57:21,600 --> 02:57:23,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, And it works the other way too, right, where

3009
02:57:23,800 --> 02:57:26,200
Speaker 10: like like this is the thing we've been seeing with Starbucks.

3010
02:57:26,240 --> 02:57:27,920
Speaker 10: We've been seeing this as at Google too, people trying

3011
02:57:27,920 --> 02:57:31,760
Speaker 10: to unionize. Is like having healthcare is a is a

3012
02:57:31,840 --> 02:57:35,160
Speaker 10: thing that your your work uses and like hangs over

3013
02:57:35,200 --> 02:57:38,039
Speaker 10: your head like to control you. And this has been

3014
02:57:38,040 --> 02:57:40,400
Speaker 10: an explicit thing. Like Starbucks specifically did this thing where

3015
02:57:40,400 --> 02:57:42,400
Speaker 10: they're like, well, if you try to unionize, like we

3016
02:57:42,400 --> 02:57:44,280
Speaker 10: can't guarantee you're gonna have like we're gonna like get

3017
02:57:44,280 --> 02:57:45,320
Speaker 10: ready your trans healthcare.

3018
02:57:45,720 --> 02:57:46,400
Speaker 13: Oh jesus.

3019
02:57:46,720 --> 02:57:48,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, and like you know, like this kind of like

3020
02:57:48,680 --> 02:57:51,480
Speaker 10: you know that that's like them just like dropping the

3021
02:57:51,560 --> 02:57:54,160
Speaker 10: mask and saying the quiet part loud, but like you know,

3022
02:57:54,640 --> 02:58:00,160
Speaker 10: like people's people's access to healthcare is an enormous and

3023
02:58:00,200 --> 02:58:03,840
Speaker 10: busting tactic. So it's it's literally just like on both

3024
02:58:03,879 --> 02:58:06,000
Speaker 10: sides of the struggle like it is.

3025
02:58:06,680 --> 02:58:06,960
Speaker 3: It is.

3026
02:58:07,040 --> 02:58:09,160
Speaker 10: It is just at all levels of labor struggle, and

3027
02:58:09,200 --> 02:58:11,520
Speaker 10: it's not thought of like that.

3028
02:58:13,200 --> 02:58:15,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, and again, like I know, I brought up silos

3029
02:58:15,320 --> 02:58:18,560
Speaker 13: before in terms of like types of healthcare, but the

3030
02:58:18,600 --> 02:58:21,600
Speaker 13: same silos. It's kind of like a liberal it's like

3031
02:58:21,760 --> 02:58:25,480
Speaker 13: liberal siloing where you're separating the issues and you can't.

3032
02:58:26,560 --> 02:58:31,120
Speaker 13: They're all connected. Abortion care, pregnancy care, raising your families,

3033
02:58:32,280 --> 02:58:37,760
Speaker 13: police violence, prison abolition, trans healthcare, labor rights, unionizing, they're

3034
02:58:37,800 --> 02:58:43,280
Speaker 13: all connected, and we don't connect the dots enough. I

3035
02:58:43,280 --> 02:58:45,440
Speaker 13: think in this country, at least the people who have

3036
02:58:45,520 --> 02:58:49,400
Speaker 13: power don't. And I think the separation of these issues

3037
02:58:49,440 --> 02:58:55,160
Speaker 13: has has really hurt us. And we're stronger together, you know,

3038
02:58:55,240 --> 02:58:59,240
Speaker 13: safety and solidarity and all that. So if we if

3039
02:58:59,280 --> 02:59:03,560
Speaker 13: every abortion care worker and abortion volunteer, abortion advocate, and

3040
02:59:04,440 --> 02:59:07,760
Speaker 13: you know, a queer liberation advocate, trans health advocate, just

3041
02:59:07,800 --> 02:59:14,080
Speaker 13: transliberation advocate, union organizer, no union member, even if you're

3042
02:59:14,160 --> 02:59:17,920
Speaker 13: like working for if you're a plumber. You know, if

3043
02:59:17,959 --> 02:59:20,920
Speaker 13: we all can identify that we have are it's all

3044
02:59:20,959 --> 02:59:26,000
Speaker 13: one fight and it's all connected, will be better off

3045
02:59:26,040 --> 02:59:26,360
Speaker 13: for it.

3046
02:59:26,480 --> 02:59:30,600
Speaker 10: So yeah, if we can. Yeah, And I think something

3047
02:59:30,640 --> 02:59:34,080
Speaker 10: that's also is really important is that like I mean

3048
02:59:34,080 --> 02:59:36,000
Speaker 10: this is historically, like you know, if you want to

3049
02:59:36,000 --> 02:59:38,360
Speaker 10: look at how working classic wents are defeated, it's you

3050
02:59:38,400 --> 02:59:43,760
Speaker 10: pick people off by finding something that you know, like

3051
02:59:43,800 --> 02:59:45,959
Speaker 10: for example, like like one of one of the ways

3052
02:59:46,000 --> 02:59:48,240
Speaker 10: you can sort of beat a worker's movement is by

3053
02:59:49,120 --> 02:59:52,080
Speaker 10: like that movement not dealing with the sort of rapid

3054
02:59:52,120 --> 02:59:54,879
Speaker 10: patriarchy and the movements. And you know, you can radicalize

3055
02:59:54,879 --> 02:59:57,400
Speaker 10: people to the right by just sort of like by

3056
02:59:58,000 --> 03:00:00,360
Speaker 10: like doing sort of missagist politics, or you can do

3057
03:00:00,400 --> 03:00:02,520
Speaker 10: the thing that like the you know this is this

3058
03:00:02,600 --> 03:00:05,320
Speaker 10: is the sort of the Christian democratic strategy in uh,

3059
03:00:05,680 --> 03:00:09,520
Speaker 10: like in Europe was you know, they they they recognize

3060
03:00:09,520 --> 03:00:15,039
Speaker 10: that the workers roupments like weren't really like organizing women

3061
03:00:15,080 --> 03:00:17,040
Speaker 10: in any substantive way, and so they you know, they

3062
03:00:17,040 --> 03:00:19,480
Speaker 10: were able to create this massive sort of anti communist

3063
03:00:19,640 --> 03:00:24,920
Speaker 10: like like center right bulwark against like organized labor by

3064
03:00:24,959 --> 03:00:27,920
Speaker 10: like actually organizing women, right, and you know, and this

3065
03:00:27,959 --> 03:00:30,279
Speaker 10: is this is something that they sort of do everywhere,

3066
03:00:30,280 --> 03:00:32,520
Speaker 10: which is like yeah, like if if if, if you,

3067
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:34,879
Speaker 10: if you aren't fighting all of these things at the

3068
03:00:34,879 --> 03:00:37,680
Speaker 10: same time and conceptualizing you at the same time, like

3069
03:00:37,800 --> 03:00:39,640
Speaker 10: you will get you will get picked apart one by

3070
03:00:39,640 --> 03:00:43,480
Speaker 10: one in your individual struggle and movement will collapse and die.

3071
03:00:43,640 --> 03:00:47,040
Speaker 10: And that's really hard. And you know, like the deck

3072
03:00:47,080 --> 03:00:49,280
Speaker 10: has been stacked against us, but that that's that's the

3073
03:00:49,320 --> 03:00:52,600
Speaker 10: cards that we have, and yeah, we have to deal

3074
03:00:52,680 --> 03:00:54,160
Speaker 10: with them.

3075
03:00:53,920 --> 03:00:57,680
Speaker 13: And to to like be a little bit to look

3076
03:00:57,680 --> 03:00:59,600
Speaker 13: more like on the positive side, because like you know,

3077
03:00:59,600 --> 03:01:03,040
Speaker 13: it's like, yeah, we've had our asses kicked and we've

3078
03:01:03,080 --> 03:01:07,640
Speaker 13: lost so much. We have lost so much, We've lost

3079
03:01:07,680 --> 03:01:10,400
Speaker 13: so many of our basic human rights in this country.

3080
03:01:11,480 --> 03:01:14,440
Speaker 13: But like abortions are still happening, and TRANSHLTH is still

3081
03:01:14,440 --> 03:01:17,920
Speaker 13: being provided, and there are communities looking out for people

3082
03:01:17,920 --> 03:01:21,320
Speaker 13: who are in need of these services and in need

3083
03:01:21,360 --> 03:01:25,120
Speaker 13: of safety because like it's not just about the basic

3084
03:01:25,120 --> 03:01:27,880
Speaker 13: health services, but you know, you have to be safe. Well,

3085
03:01:28,320 --> 03:01:31,120
Speaker 13: you know, if you're pregnant and you need healthcare, you

3086
03:01:31,120 --> 03:01:32,520
Speaker 13: want to be safe. And then also if you're like

3087
03:01:32,520 --> 03:01:36,240
Speaker 13: a trans individual and you don't feel safe, it's helpful

3088
03:01:36,240 --> 03:01:40,680
Speaker 13: to have those organizations there. Yeah, exactly, That's totally what

3089
03:01:40,720 --> 03:01:45,360
Speaker 13: I have in mind. And on the right side, like

3090
03:01:45,640 --> 03:01:50,160
Speaker 13: that is like those are still being like the healthcare

3091
03:01:50,240 --> 03:01:53,879
Speaker 13: is still being provided even if it has been decimated

3092
03:01:54,040 --> 03:01:56,640
Speaker 13: and people are having to move mountains in order to

3093
03:01:56,640 --> 03:01:58,720
Speaker 13: get there. You know, abortions are happening, and every day

3094
03:01:59,440 --> 03:02:03,080
Speaker 13: I'm still do and I'm still getting people abortions. There

3095
03:02:03,120 --> 03:02:06,640
Speaker 13: are workers who are helping people get the health care

3096
03:02:06,640 --> 03:02:10,920
Speaker 13: that they need, the hormones that they need, and there

3097
03:02:10,920 --> 03:02:14,840
Speaker 13: are people like you know, teaching defense and security and

3098
03:02:15,160 --> 03:02:19,480
Speaker 13: working together. And we need to continue to do this

3099
03:02:19,520 --> 03:02:23,200
Speaker 13: because I you know, I am really angry and I

3100
03:02:23,240 --> 03:02:27,680
Speaker 13: am really just fucked in the head now because of

3101
03:02:27,720 --> 03:02:30,400
Speaker 13: everything that I've experienced and had to witness, and it's

3102
03:02:31,040 --> 03:02:35,879
Speaker 13: soul crushing, but I just keep doing it because that

3103
03:02:36,080 --> 03:02:37,039
Speaker 13: it just needs to happen.

3104
03:02:37,440 --> 03:02:37,760
Speaker 8: Like this.

3105
03:02:38,240 --> 03:02:43,640
Speaker 13: People need this healthcare, people need this information. People need

3106
03:02:43,640 --> 03:02:46,720
Speaker 13: to be connected safety and solidarity, and I just you know,

3107
03:02:46,760 --> 03:02:48,840
Speaker 13: we have to keep going, like you know, so we

3108
03:02:48,920 --> 03:02:51,800
Speaker 13: have to defend the workers providing these services. We have

3109
03:02:51,920 --> 03:02:56,720
Speaker 13: to defend people accessing these services, whether it's abortion or

3110
03:02:56,760 --> 03:03:01,879
Speaker 13: trans health, and we need to just keep doing it

3111
03:03:01,920 --> 03:03:05,000
Speaker 13: no matter how awful we feel. And you know, this

3112
03:03:05,040 --> 03:03:08,879
Speaker 13: has been an incredibly hard year and I have had

3113
03:03:08,920 --> 03:03:12,360
Speaker 13: conversations that I never would have wanted to have ever

3114
03:03:13,000 --> 03:03:14,360
Speaker 13: and that are hard to carry with me. And I'm

3115
03:03:14,360 --> 03:03:16,560
Speaker 13: going to carry these conversations. You know, these memories are

3116
03:03:16,600 --> 03:03:17,800
Speaker 13: like in my head now and then I have them

3117
03:03:17,800 --> 03:03:21,360
Speaker 13: for the rest of my life maybe, and they're they're

3118
03:03:21,360 --> 03:03:23,640
Speaker 13: in my head, you know, they're there. I've it's happened.

3119
03:03:24,240 --> 03:03:28,160
Speaker 13: And I'm just really grateful for the other people doing

3120
03:03:28,200 --> 03:03:32,840
Speaker 13: this work and that they're there and that I'm not

3121
03:03:32,879 --> 03:03:35,920
Speaker 13: the only one feeling this way, and that we have

3122
03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:39,039
Speaker 13: each other's backs and that we we do have the

3123
03:03:39,040 --> 03:03:40,720
Speaker 13: same fight. Like knowing that we have the same fight,

3124
03:03:40,760 --> 03:03:46,040
Speaker 13: I'm like, you know that solidarity means means everything right now,

3125
03:03:47,680 --> 03:03:49,680
Speaker 13: because it's more than just like winning or losing, Like, yeah,

3126
03:03:49,720 --> 03:03:52,440
Speaker 13: we've we've lost a lot, and we're continuing to lose

3127
03:03:52,440 --> 03:03:57,200
Speaker 13: a lot, but we're all still here and we all

3128
03:03:57,200 --> 03:04:03,200
Speaker 13: still need. We still need, like we need to just

3129
03:04:03,360 --> 03:04:06,240
Speaker 13: take care of ourselves and each other still. So I'm

3130
03:04:06,280 --> 03:04:08,040
Speaker 13: going to keep doing this work. I know that other

3131
03:04:08,080 --> 03:04:10,800
Speaker 13: people are going to keep doing this work, and I

3132
03:04:10,840 --> 03:04:13,640
Speaker 13: know that there will always be help available. Whether you know,

3133
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:15,879
Speaker 13: finding it is one thing, but I know that it

3134
03:04:15,920 --> 03:04:19,480
Speaker 13: will always be there, and I try to take solace

3135
03:04:19,560 --> 03:04:24,119
Speaker 13: in that because this is this is a collective trauma

3136
03:04:25,120 --> 03:04:28,039
Speaker 13: that our generation is going to see out for the

3137
03:04:28,040 --> 03:04:29,760
Speaker 13: rest of our lives, and it's going to bleed into

3138
03:04:29,800 --> 03:04:33,200
Speaker 13: the next generation. And there's a lot I hope for,

3139
03:04:34,000 --> 03:04:36,480
Speaker 13: you know, before I die, there's a lot I hope

3140
03:04:36,480 --> 03:04:40,720
Speaker 13: to see. So I hope that I see it to

3141
03:04:40,800 --> 03:04:42,200
Speaker 13: end this on a positive note because I know at

3142
03:04:42,200 --> 03:04:44,720
Speaker 13: the very beginning, I know, like when we first started

3143
03:04:44,760 --> 03:04:47,520
Speaker 13: talking Mia, I saw we wanted to end in a

3144
03:04:47,560 --> 03:04:51,120
Speaker 13: positive note. So that involves me sharing like the thing

3145
03:04:51,160 --> 03:04:55,720
Speaker 13: that cheers me up the most and that like pushes

3146
03:04:55,760 --> 03:04:58,760
Speaker 13: all the right buttons for me. But there have been

3147
03:04:58,840 --> 03:05:02,680
Speaker 13: some good things terms of like abortion access in the

3148
03:05:02,760 --> 03:05:07,240
Speaker 13: last six months, So I want to share that it

3149
03:05:07,280 --> 03:05:15,200
Speaker 13: all starts. It starts with partners Clinic uh. They Partner's

3150
03:05:15,200 --> 03:05:19,320
Speaker 13: Clinic is an ull trimester clinic in in Maryland and

3151
03:05:19,440 --> 03:05:24,039
Speaker 13: they opened this year and they were doing fundraising, and

3152
03:05:24,080 --> 03:05:27,760
Speaker 13: first of all, they're amazing. They're an amazing team of workers,

3153
03:05:28,680 --> 03:05:33,920
Speaker 13: amazing abortion providers. I love Partners Clinic there. I just

3154
03:05:33,959 --> 03:05:37,960
Speaker 13: I could not, I cannot praise them enough. And they

3155
03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:40,600
Speaker 13: they were fundraising to open their clinic and have everything

3156
03:05:40,600 --> 03:05:42,680
Speaker 13: that they need and you know, you know, have money

3157
03:05:42,720 --> 03:05:46,360
Speaker 13: for staff and everything. And it was picked up by

3158
03:05:47,320 --> 03:05:51,960
Speaker 13: prison Culture, uh more commonly that's like her online handle.

3159
03:05:52,000 --> 03:05:53,800
Speaker 13: A lot of people like know her as prison Culture,

3160
03:05:53,840 --> 03:05:58,840
Speaker 13: but Mariamikaba and she started fundraising for them, and she

3161
03:05:59,720 --> 03:06:02,600
Speaker 13: was a to help so much that they surpass their

3162
03:06:02,600 --> 03:06:06,280
Speaker 13: goal and they opened and now we have another all

3163
03:06:06,280 --> 03:06:10,240
Speaker 13: trimester abortion clinic in the United States, staffed by the

3164
03:06:10,240 --> 03:06:15,800
Speaker 13: most compassionate, amazing, hardworking individuals. And that cheered me up

3165
03:06:15,840 --> 03:06:21,760
Speaker 13: so much because I obviously love Mary Amacaba and prison abolition.

3166
03:06:21,959 --> 03:06:26,600
Speaker 13: I know, I'm a prison abolitionist, so seeing her like

3167
03:06:27,520 --> 03:06:30,360
Speaker 13: seeing her see how the issues are connected that they're

3168
03:06:30,400 --> 03:06:35,360
Speaker 13: like that, you know, they go together, and organizing for

3169
03:06:35,560 --> 03:06:37,959
Speaker 13: that on top of the work that she is already

3170
03:06:38,000 --> 03:06:42,000
Speaker 13: doing for abolition. I was just like so happy to

3171
03:06:42,080 --> 03:06:49,520
Speaker 13: see that. And on the topic of all trimester abortion clinics,

3172
03:06:50,120 --> 03:06:53,720
Speaker 13: there is another one opening up as well, and this

3173
03:06:53,800 --> 03:06:56,600
Speaker 13: cheers me up immensely as well. They are called the

3174
03:06:56,800 --> 03:07:00,560
Speaker 13: Valley Abortion Group. They're not open yet, they're currently unraising.

3175
03:07:00,760 --> 03:07:04,520
Speaker 13: I could probably send you the link to post maybe. Yeah,

3176
03:07:04,600 --> 03:07:07,880
Speaker 13: so they're not open yet, but you know, they're getting there.

3177
03:07:07,959 --> 03:07:10,480
Speaker 13: And they're called the Value Abortion Group. They're gonna be

3178
03:07:10,480 --> 03:07:13,400
Speaker 13: another ultrimester clinic and they're going to be located in

3179
03:07:13,440 --> 03:07:16,000
Speaker 13: New Mexico and they're I just want to point out

3180
03:07:16,000 --> 03:07:18,680
Speaker 13: that their acronym is VAGE, which I just I think

3181
03:07:18,760 --> 03:07:19,880
Speaker 13: is really important to point out.

3182
03:07:20,040 --> 03:07:20,240
Speaker 5: Hell.

3183
03:07:20,360 --> 03:07:24,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, so you know, we saw Partners open and that

3184
03:07:24,320 --> 03:07:25,840
Speaker 13: was amazing, and now we're going to have another one

3185
03:07:25,840 --> 03:07:28,920
Speaker 13: opening up and that's amazing. So, you know, love and

3186
03:07:28,920 --> 03:07:32,680
Speaker 13: support for Value Abortion Group because honestly, the more we

3187
03:07:32,720 --> 03:07:35,560
Speaker 13: need a abortion clinics period, like we need more of them,

3188
03:07:36,120 --> 03:07:41,240
Speaker 13: but especially all trimester, especially now that these bands have

3189
03:07:41,280 --> 03:07:44,720
Speaker 13: been pushing people further and further along into the pregnancy

3190
03:07:44,879 --> 03:07:47,480
Speaker 13: before they can access these services. It's so important for

3191
03:07:47,520 --> 03:07:49,440
Speaker 13: them to exist. And on this topic, I also want

3192
03:07:49,480 --> 03:07:52,400
Speaker 13: to bring up that you know, there are stories out

3193
03:07:52,440 --> 03:07:54,840
Speaker 13: there of people who it takes them six months to

3194
03:07:54,879 --> 03:07:58,080
Speaker 13: get an abortion appointment. Six months, Chris, I just want

3195
03:07:58,080 --> 03:08:00,160
Speaker 13: to bring that up because that's happening. Because I know

3196
03:08:00,200 --> 03:08:02,560
Speaker 13: that I've said like five weeks a lot while we're talking,

3197
03:08:02,600 --> 03:08:04,800
Speaker 13: but like it takes some people six months. So it's

3198
03:08:04,840 --> 03:08:08,000
Speaker 13: really important for these ultrimester abortion clinics to exist and

3199
03:08:08,400 --> 03:08:12,760
Speaker 13: for us and the communities that we're part of to

3200
03:08:13,200 --> 03:08:16,760
Speaker 13: welcome them with open arms and like big love. And

3201
03:08:17,120 --> 03:08:19,800
Speaker 13: also on the same topic of good news things that

3202
03:08:19,879 --> 03:08:23,880
Speaker 13: cheer me up, prison abolition, abortion access, all of these

3203
03:08:23,879 --> 03:08:29,520
Speaker 13: good good topics, prison culture Mary Macaba is now fundraising

3204
03:08:29,720 --> 03:08:34,200
Speaker 13: for another abortion practical support group, and I have to

3205
03:08:34,240 --> 03:08:36,480
Speaker 13: mention this up because mention this because this fundraising is

3206
03:08:36,480 --> 03:08:39,760
Speaker 13: happening right now. So if you go to prison Cultures Twitter,

3207
03:08:39,959 --> 03:08:42,160
Speaker 13: she's like fundraising for it every single day, but she

3208
03:08:42,280 --> 03:08:47,600
Speaker 13: is fundraising for the Online Abortion Resource Squad, So Online

3209
03:08:47,640 --> 03:08:52,080
Speaker 13: Abortion Resource Squad or OARS for short. What they are

3210
03:08:52,400 --> 03:08:55,400
Speaker 13: is they are a entirely volunteer organization, which is why

3211
03:08:55,400 --> 03:08:57,320
Speaker 13: they need to pay them for their labor. This is

3212
03:08:57,320 --> 03:09:04,480
Speaker 13: really important work that monitors, moderates, and provides quality posts

3213
03:09:04,520 --> 03:09:08,400
Speaker 13: on our abortion was our slash abortion. How should I

3214
03:09:08,480 --> 03:09:12,920
Speaker 13: read that? So basically our slash abortion. So the reddit

3215
03:09:13,400 --> 03:09:18,560
Speaker 13: the subreddit for just abortion on Reddit, which I think

3216
03:09:18,560 --> 03:09:21,240
Speaker 13: that like when I immediately say that, some people might

3217
03:09:21,280 --> 03:09:26,800
Speaker 13: not realize how important that is. But as these bands

3218
03:09:26,840 --> 03:09:29,920
Speaker 13: have just spread and gotten worse and the abortion access

3219
03:09:29,920 --> 03:09:33,360
Speaker 13: doesorts have widened, it is so important for people to

3220
03:09:33,400 --> 03:09:36,160
Speaker 13: be able to access quality information, and a lot of

3221
03:09:36,160 --> 03:09:39,400
Speaker 13: people go to Reddit, Like so many people go to

3222
03:09:39,440 --> 03:09:42,959
Speaker 13: Reddit to find out information. So like the daily page

3223
03:09:43,040 --> 03:09:46,520
Speaker 13: hits for our slash abortion is just up and up

3224
03:09:46,560 --> 03:09:49,599
Speaker 13: and up and up. And there's a group of volunteers

3225
03:09:50,160 --> 03:09:54,959
Speaker 13: that you know, like donate their their their hours, their

3226
03:09:55,000 --> 03:09:59,480
Speaker 13: free time, you know, their energy to to give people

3227
03:09:59,760 --> 03:10:02,680
Speaker 13: the answers that they're looking for and to like walk

3228
03:10:02,720 --> 03:10:05,480
Speaker 13: them through a process. Because a lot of people, you know,

3229
03:10:05,480 --> 03:10:07,320
Speaker 13: they want to help, so they post links. So they're like, oh,

3230
03:10:07,360 --> 03:10:10,240
Speaker 13: you you're in a band state and you can't access services,

3231
03:10:10,280 --> 03:10:12,560
Speaker 13: so they just post a link to I don't know,

3232
03:10:12,640 --> 03:10:16,119
Speaker 13: like aid access. But it's more than it's not that easy,

3233
03:10:16,200 --> 03:10:18,000
Speaker 13: Like you can't just like give somebody a link to

3234
03:10:18,040 --> 03:10:20,360
Speaker 13: aid access and be like here's your abortion. No, like

3235
03:10:20,400 --> 03:10:22,400
Speaker 13: you need to ask questions. You need somebody to assist

3236
03:10:22,400 --> 03:10:25,000
Speaker 13: you follow up questions if something doesn't work, like oh

3237
03:10:25,000 --> 03:10:26,840
Speaker 13: my god, the payment's not working, like you need help?

3238
03:10:27,320 --> 03:10:30,879
Speaker 13: And or is the online Abortion Resource Squad. They go

3239
03:10:30,920 --> 03:10:33,000
Speaker 13: into our abortion every single day and they make sure

3240
03:10:33,000 --> 03:10:37,360
Speaker 13: that people get help. And they've been doing this labor

3241
03:10:37,400 --> 03:10:41,360
Speaker 13: for free, and now prison culture is helping them basically

3242
03:10:41,360 --> 03:10:43,560
Speaker 13: get them, get them paid, get them money, get them,

3243
03:10:43,640 --> 03:10:46,400
Speaker 13: get them make it so that way they can do that,

3244
03:10:46,600 --> 03:10:50,760
Speaker 13: like you know, they don't have to, you know, find

3245
03:10:50,760 --> 03:10:53,920
Speaker 13: different options for employment. You know, they don't have to

3246
03:10:54,080 --> 03:10:57,960
Speaker 13: struggle to get by like they they there's money sustaining them.

3247
03:10:58,080 --> 03:10:59,480
Speaker 13: So that way they can make sure that people have

3248
03:10:59,520 --> 03:11:02,240
Speaker 13: their questions answered all day and that is so important.

3249
03:11:02,400 --> 03:11:06,160
Speaker 13: Like I just like, I just I never thought, like

3250
03:11:06,200 --> 03:11:08,959
Speaker 13: if you had asked me, like like seven years ago,

3251
03:11:09,240 --> 03:11:12,360
Speaker 13: if I thought people posting on Reddit would be life saving,

3252
03:11:12,760 --> 03:11:18,120
Speaker 13: I would have totally like just not taken that seriously.

3253
03:11:18,200 --> 03:11:20,440
Speaker 13: But now I'm like, I'm like, oh my god, people

3254
03:11:20,440 --> 03:11:22,920
Speaker 13: are flocking to Reddit every day to try to find

3255
03:11:22,920 --> 03:11:24,760
Speaker 13: out how to get an abortion, and there are people

3256
03:11:24,879 --> 03:11:28,000
Speaker 13: volunteering their time to get them quality answers and make

3257
03:11:28,000 --> 03:11:29,440
Speaker 13: sure that they get the care that they're looking for.

3258
03:11:29,920 --> 03:11:36,360
Speaker 13: And I love that. I love that an abolitionist, like

3259
03:11:36,400 --> 03:11:39,240
Speaker 13: a prison abolition police in prison abolitionists, has identified that

3260
03:11:39,320 --> 03:11:43,640
Speaker 13: this is a significant need that people in these different

3261
03:11:43,640 --> 03:11:47,680
Speaker 13: communities that are typically like a little bit siloed are

3262
03:11:48,560 --> 03:11:51,760
Speaker 13: supporting each other's causes. I think that abolition and abortion

3263
03:11:51,879 --> 03:11:58,080
Speaker 13: go hand in hand. And this just cheers me up immensely.

3264
03:11:58,120 --> 03:12:01,680
Speaker 13: And the fact that like there are resource hubs online

3265
03:12:01,879 --> 03:12:05,840
Speaker 13: that are that are like that are coming to bat

3266
03:12:05,959 --> 03:12:09,680
Speaker 13: you know, like, oh, this horrible thing has happened. Roe

3267
03:12:09,760 --> 03:12:12,600
Speaker 13: v Wade has been overturned, and what are we gonna do?

3268
03:12:12,640 --> 03:12:16,040
Speaker 13: And it's like, well, go go answer people's questions on Reddit,

3269
03:12:17,920 --> 03:12:21,080
Speaker 13: and yeah, so I wanted to share that because I

3270
03:12:21,120 --> 03:12:26,760
Speaker 13: said a lot of sad stuff about how horrifying and

3271
03:12:26,800 --> 03:12:29,680
Speaker 13: traumatic and this all is and how there's so much

3272
03:12:29,720 --> 03:12:33,000
Speaker 13: human suffering. So it's just because of that, I just

3273
03:12:33,080 --> 03:12:36,280
Speaker 13: I also wanted to to take time to say, like, hey,

3274
03:12:37,080 --> 03:12:39,600
Speaker 13: there are people making sure that people get care. There

3275
03:12:39,640 --> 03:12:45,800
Speaker 13: are amazing people you know working to get people paid

3276
03:12:46,240 --> 03:12:49,720
Speaker 13: and get people funding and make it so that way

3277
03:12:49,760 --> 03:12:53,000
Speaker 13: this work is sustainable, because like sustainability is its own thing,

3278
03:12:53,120 --> 03:12:59,039
Speaker 13: Like yeah, who like it? Is hard to fight against fascism,

3279
03:12:59,160 --> 03:13:04,840
Speaker 13: Like it's we're being we're having our are basic human

3280
03:13:04,920 --> 03:13:08,720
Speaker 13: rights violated on a daily basis, and we are being dehumanized,

3281
03:13:08,800 --> 03:13:14,600
Speaker 13: and that is incredibly difficult to fight constantly on top

3282
03:13:14,640 --> 03:13:17,640
Speaker 13: of having to pay your bills and you know, like

3283
03:13:17,800 --> 03:13:19,480
Speaker 13: deal with whatever the heck's going on in your life.

3284
03:13:20,240 --> 03:13:24,720
Speaker 13: So I'm just like, I'm really grateful for Mary Micaba

3285
03:13:24,879 --> 03:13:27,160
Speaker 13: and everyone who has helped her. I'm really grateful for

3286
03:13:28,360 --> 03:13:34,520
Speaker 13: Partners and Value Abortion Group BADGE, and I am really

3287
03:13:35,120 --> 03:13:39,240
Speaker 13: grateful for the Online Abortion Resource squad Ors and all

3288
03:13:39,240 --> 03:13:43,760
Speaker 13: of their amazing volunteers. And I hope that like, if

3289
03:13:43,800 --> 03:13:48,360
Speaker 13: somebody is feeling helpless and and like feeling like they

3290
03:13:48,360 --> 03:13:52,879
Speaker 13: don't know what to do in these really scary times,

3291
03:13:52,920 --> 03:13:57,640
Speaker 13: they can look toward, like look to to these examples

3292
03:13:57,680 --> 03:14:01,240
Speaker 13: and be like, well, I can I can provide good

3293
03:14:01,240 --> 03:14:06,199
Speaker 13: information to people. I can share donation opportunities or donate myself,

3294
03:14:06,360 --> 03:14:13,640
Speaker 13: and I can uplift this stuff and recognize how valuable

3295
03:14:14,959 --> 03:14:18,480
Speaker 13: even posting online can be sometimes because I posting online

3296
03:14:18,560 --> 03:14:20,360
Speaker 13: usually not a good thing. But you know, if you

3297
03:14:20,400 --> 03:14:24,640
Speaker 13: are helping somebody get healthcare and you're utilizing like you know,

3298
03:14:25,080 --> 03:14:30,560
Speaker 13: a popular platform to spread that information. You're you're you're

3299
03:14:30,560 --> 03:14:32,600
Speaker 13: doing a great job, and you deserve all the shout outs.

3300
03:14:32,640 --> 03:14:36,120
Speaker 13: So yeah, so yeah, those are some really those that's

3301
03:14:36,160 --> 03:14:38,720
Speaker 13: what's cheering me up in the year twenty twenty three.

3302
03:14:39,040 --> 03:14:45,800
Speaker 13: As I approach like June twenty fourth, the anniversary, I'm like,

3303
03:14:45,840 --> 03:14:51,240
Speaker 13: oh my god, everything's really awful, but this, this is

3304
03:14:51,240 --> 03:14:52,160
Speaker 13: what's cheering me up.

3305
03:14:53,200 --> 03:14:57,480
Speaker 10: So yeah, I don't know. Well, okay, I guess I

3306
03:14:57,480 --> 03:14:59,640
Speaker 10: do know why this is spontaneously leapt to my head

3307
03:14:59,640 --> 03:15:01,840
Speaker 10: when the thing that I the thing that I always

3308
03:15:01,840 --> 03:15:05,560
Speaker 10: think about is that there's a Zappatista slogan that goes

3309
03:15:05,600 --> 03:15:09,720
Speaker 10: to pot of lives. The struggle continues, and yeah, I mean,

3310
03:15:09,959 --> 03:15:12,879
Speaker 10: I don't have anything else. It's you know, but I

3311
03:15:12,879 --> 03:15:16,760
Speaker 10: mean that struggle. Look like the thing about this right

3312
03:15:16,840 --> 03:15:20,920
Speaker 10: like there there's a reason that it's a like they

3313
03:15:20,959 --> 03:15:23,119
Speaker 10: have to spend all of this effort on it because

3314
03:15:23,400 --> 03:15:27,160
Speaker 10: there is actually a struggle, and the fact that they

3315
03:15:27,200 --> 03:15:29,240
Speaker 10: have to they spend so much effort, so much resources,

3316
03:15:29,360 --> 03:15:30,720
Speaker 10: so much of their time, and so much of their

3317
03:15:30,760 --> 03:15:34,600
Speaker 10: power on this, like is also proof of their weakness,

3318
03:15:34,640 --> 03:15:36,680
Speaker 10: that this is not something that they can do just

3319
03:15:36,760 --> 03:15:38,920
Speaker 10: sort of neutrally right, and it's it's something that can

3320
03:15:38,959 --> 03:15:42,720
Speaker 10: be stopped, it can be rolled back. And yeah, I

3321
03:15:42,760 --> 03:15:45,840
Speaker 10: mean the the fact that it is a struggle like

3322
03:15:46,400 --> 03:15:50,080
Speaker 10: in and of itself like implies that they're wrong in

3323
03:15:50,160 --> 03:15:52,960
Speaker 10: in and of itself, demonstrates that we are also still fighting,

3324
03:15:53,200 --> 03:15:55,760
Speaker 10: and we are going to continue fighting and one day

3325
03:15:55,760 --> 03:15:57,120
Speaker 10: we are going to beat these fuckers.

3326
03:15:57,600 --> 03:16:01,200
Speaker 13: Yep, I believe it. I mean, like, yeah, I'm like

3327
03:16:01,240 --> 03:16:05,160
Speaker 13: talking openly and honestly about the toll of the human suffering.

3328
03:16:05,320 --> 03:16:07,760
Speaker 13: But I believe that we can stop this if we

3329
03:16:07,920 --> 03:16:11,600
Speaker 13: if we keep going, and I I hope I see

3330
03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:15,200
Speaker 13: that in my lifetime. And I uh, and I think

3331
03:16:15,400 --> 03:16:17,720
Speaker 13: it's it's a sada shakuri. I think where is where

3332
03:16:17,720 --> 03:16:23,680
Speaker 13: there's oppression, there is resistance that that that makes me

3333
03:16:23,720 --> 03:16:27,680
Speaker 13: feel better, you know, like because which ah, God, God,

3334
03:16:27,800 --> 03:16:30,400
Speaker 13: just like I know is speaking of liberals, there's I

3335
03:16:30,440 --> 03:16:33,720
Speaker 13: just don't understand the take where it's like, oh, these

3336
03:16:33,720 --> 03:16:35,720
Speaker 13: red states are getting what they deserve. Texas is getting

3337
03:16:35,760 --> 03:16:38,000
Speaker 13: what the deserves, Florida is getting with what they deserve,

3338
03:16:38,040 --> 03:16:42,440
Speaker 13: and it's like no, like they they're being oppressed and

3339
03:16:42,480 --> 03:16:46,000
Speaker 13: they are fighting their oppression. And I love people in

3340
03:16:46,040 --> 03:16:50,080
Speaker 13: those states, and I love the people fighting, and I

3341
03:16:50,320 --> 03:16:51,680
Speaker 13: I just I don't know how you can look at

3342
03:16:51,680 --> 03:16:53,520
Speaker 13: that and not be filled with like love and awe,

3343
03:16:54,640 --> 03:16:56,400
Speaker 13: just like in the way that I'm filled with like

3344
03:16:56,440 --> 03:17:00,320
Speaker 13: love and awe when I see like how hard people

3345
03:17:00,400 --> 03:17:03,480
Speaker 13: are working to navigate these barriers and to access the

3346
03:17:03,480 --> 03:17:05,600
Speaker 13: health care that they need. Like, I'm just like, you

3347
03:17:05,640 --> 03:17:09,200
Speaker 13: are being so brave, you are You're so strong to

3348
03:17:09,280 --> 03:17:13,640
Speaker 13: do this, and like not everyone is seeing it, you know,

3349
03:17:13,680 --> 03:17:16,400
Speaker 13: because like these are like you know, private like journeys

3350
03:17:16,400 --> 03:17:19,040
Speaker 13: to get healthcare, but like I'm seeing it, and I'm like, God,

3351
03:17:19,080 --> 03:17:21,200
Speaker 13: these people are so amazing, and people are fighting so

3352
03:17:21,320 --> 03:17:23,920
Speaker 13: hard and they are continuing to struggle and they're not

3353
03:17:23,959 --> 03:17:26,760
Speaker 13: giving I mean, some people are giving up because like

3354
03:17:26,920 --> 03:17:29,320
Speaker 13: the state is like forcing it on them, but like

3355
03:17:29,360 --> 03:17:32,840
Speaker 13: a lot of people aren't giving up. And I am

3356
03:17:33,440 --> 03:17:38,640
Speaker 13: I'm constantly in awe about that because yeah, yeah, it's

3357
03:17:38,640 --> 03:17:41,039
Speaker 13: a lot of witnessing human suffering and people suffer, but

3358
03:17:41,120 --> 03:17:43,400
Speaker 13: also it's witnessing a lot of people be really strong

3359
03:17:43,800 --> 03:17:49,720
Speaker 13: and really fight and for what they deserve. And I'm

3360
03:17:49,720 --> 03:17:51,880
Speaker 13: so glad I get to witness that too, even though

3361
03:17:51,920 --> 03:17:54,840
Speaker 13: I wish you no I didn't have to see all

3362
03:17:54,879 --> 03:17:59,560
Speaker 13: the suffering, but you know, I'm really grateful to see

3363
03:17:59,600 --> 03:18:07,200
Speaker 13: the struggle too. I love human beings and I'm just

3364
03:18:08,520 --> 03:18:10,920
Speaker 13: we're awesome, like we I mean, a lot of us aren't,

3365
03:18:10,959 --> 03:18:15,120
Speaker 13: but the rest of us are oks putting up a

3366
03:18:15,120 --> 03:18:18,680
Speaker 13: good fight. So I think we can win. I think

3367
03:18:18,680 --> 03:18:19,160
Speaker 13: we can win.

3368
03:18:19,560 --> 03:18:21,480
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3369
03:18:21,600 --> 03:18:23,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, So I know we've talked about a few links.

3370
03:18:23,879 --> 03:18:26,360
Speaker 10: Do you have anything else that, any other links that

3371
03:18:26,400 --> 03:18:28,320
Speaker 10: you want to talk about to send people to?

3372
03:18:29,040 --> 03:18:31,600
Speaker 8: So yeah, Jesus.

3373
03:18:31,400 --> 03:18:33,440
Speaker 10: Christ, do you have anything else you want to send

3374
03:18:33,480 --> 03:18:35,879
Speaker 10: people to so that they can help support the struggles

3375
03:18:35,879 --> 03:18:36,440
Speaker 10: that are going on.

3376
03:18:38,600 --> 03:18:40,320
Speaker 13: I don't think I have any additional ones I want

3377
03:18:40,360 --> 03:18:43,880
Speaker 13: to give right now. I think that the ones that

3378
03:18:43,920 --> 03:18:47,879
Speaker 13: I've brought up like deserve all of the attention right now.

3379
03:18:48,120 --> 03:18:50,160
Speaker 13: So I'm just gonna like say him again. So I

3380
03:18:50,200 --> 03:18:53,760
Speaker 13: know previously I mentioned the Texas Equal Access Fund the

3381
03:18:53,800 --> 03:18:57,040
Speaker 13: T Fund, and Texas is doing a lot right now,

3382
03:18:57,800 --> 03:19:00,320
Speaker 13: and honestly, the other Texas funds are too. Was just

3383
03:19:00,360 --> 03:19:04,080
Speaker 13: like the one that I see the most. Chicago Abortion

3384
03:19:04,240 --> 03:19:10,240
Speaker 13: Fund is doing amazing work right now. Partners Clinic, which

3385
03:19:10,280 --> 03:19:14,160
Speaker 13: is located in Maryland, like shout out to their team.

3386
03:19:14,320 --> 03:19:18,520
Speaker 13: I love them so much. They are they they are

3387
03:19:18,600 --> 03:19:22,960
Speaker 13: like the light in the darkness. Right now, Valley Abortion

3388
03:19:23,080 --> 03:19:27,920
Speaker 13: group Badge, which will hopefully be opening I don't know

3389
03:19:27,920 --> 03:19:30,080
Speaker 13: when they're opening, but I'm looking forward to them opening

3390
03:19:30,120 --> 03:19:33,280
Speaker 13: so much in New Mexico. And and then the online

3391
03:19:33,440 --> 03:19:38,279
Speaker 13: Abortion Resource squad Ors, the Saints of our Slash Abortion,

3392
03:19:38,879 --> 03:19:42,600
Speaker 13: Like I just I want to like shout them out

3393
03:19:42,879 --> 03:19:45,720
Speaker 13: with this like platform that I have right now, So

3394
03:19:45,879 --> 03:19:48,480
Speaker 13: Google all them, check them out, click the links, and

3395
03:19:48,520 --> 03:19:51,879
Speaker 13: then of course, you know, again your local abortion fund,

3396
03:19:52,040 --> 03:19:55,640
Speaker 13: like it just just don't get tired of hearing donate

3397
03:19:55,680 --> 03:19:57,360
Speaker 13: to your local abortion fund, just like say it again,

3398
03:19:58,000 --> 03:19:59,480
Speaker 13: just like right out on the back of your eyeballs.

3399
03:20:01,120 --> 03:20:04,760
Speaker 13: It's that. That's that's what we getting. That's what's getting

3400
03:20:04,760 --> 03:20:10,560
Speaker 13: people health care right now, people who can't wait. So yeah,

3401
03:20:10,600 --> 03:20:14,280
Speaker 13: I just like uplifting all those things again. Like I'm

3402
03:20:14,320 --> 03:20:18,000
Speaker 13: sure like there are there are a lot of amazing

3403
03:20:18,000 --> 03:20:21,760
Speaker 13: groups doing work. I could probably like take like an

3404
03:20:21,800 --> 03:20:25,039
Speaker 13: hour listing all of them, but uh, like right now,

3405
03:20:25,240 --> 03:20:29,120
Speaker 13: those are the ones where I'm like, hell, yeah, this

3406
03:20:29,240 --> 03:20:29,960
Speaker 13: is amazing.

3407
03:20:31,600 --> 03:20:39,280
Speaker 10: So yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you again so much

3408
03:20:39,400 --> 03:20:41,680
Speaker 10: for for coming and talking with us.

3409
03:20:41,680 --> 03:20:42,119
Speaker 8: About this.

3410
03:20:44,360 --> 03:20:48,320
Speaker 13: Yeah. I love talking about all of the pain and suffering.

3411
03:20:48,520 --> 03:20:51,480
Speaker 13: And you know, catch me outside screaming at the sky

3412
03:20:51,560 --> 03:20:55,519
Speaker 13: and shaking my fist and drinking a lot of mimosas.

3413
03:20:56,280 --> 03:20:57,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, in the next couple of weeks.

3414
03:20:58,800 --> 03:21:01,160
Speaker 13: This is a rough This is rough month. This is

3415
03:21:01,160 --> 03:21:06,160
Speaker 13: a rough month. I'm not happy to be here, but

3416
03:21:06,840 --> 03:21:11,240
Speaker 13: I'm happy about some things. Just this is not It's

3417
03:21:11,240 --> 03:21:13,080
Speaker 13: been a hard year. It's been a really hard year.

3418
03:21:16,360 --> 03:21:17,840
Speaker 13: But I'm happy to be on this podcast.

3419
03:21:19,720 --> 03:21:23,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I hope all of you, in literally whatever

3420
03:21:23,440 --> 03:21:29,560
Speaker 10: way you can, like do something to make this better,

3421
03:21:30,640 --> 03:21:34,560
Speaker 10: because we all owe it to each other, and we

3422
03:21:34,640 --> 03:21:37,160
Speaker 10: owe it to everyone who has to live under the

3423
03:21:37,200 --> 03:21:40,920
Speaker 10: system that you know, like hasn't built in our name

3424
03:21:41,360 --> 03:21:44,880
Speaker 10: to do something and not to just sort of sit

3425
03:21:44,959 --> 03:21:47,560
Speaker 10: back and let this just let the engine to suffering

3426
03:21:48,040 --> 03:21:49,400
Speaker 10: keep rolling over more people.

3427
03:21:50,040 --> 03:21:52,600
Speaker 13: And even small things are valuable too. I feel like

3428
03:21:52,640 --> 03:21:53,880
Speaker 13: a lot of I've known a lot of people who

3429
03:21:53,920 --> 03:21:55,960
Speaker 13: are like, you know, like, oh, you know, I got

3430
03:21:55,959 --> 03:21:57,880
Speaker 13: a lot going on and I can't I don't know

3431
03:21:57,920 --> 03:21:59,480
Speaker 13: how to. I just can't help that much. And it's

3432
03:21:59,480 --> 03:22:01,520
Speaker 13: like even the little things you do are meaningful, Like

3433
03:22:02,440 --> 03:22:06,680
Speaker 13: even like ten dollars is like like somebody who's traveling's lunch,

3434
03:22:06,800 --> 03:22:10,560
Speaker 13: you know, Like that's a big deal. So don't don't

3435
03:22:10,640 --> 03:22:13,880
Speaker 13: undersell the little things that you can do. Even little

3436
03:22:13,879 --> 03:22:16,600
Speaker 13: things are really meaningful right now, like what you have

3437
03:22:16,640 --> 03:22:21,720
Speaker 13: the capacity for. No one's gonna I'm not gonna shake

3438
03:22:21,760 --> 03:22:27,240
Speaker 13: a stick at it. I think any contribution is incredibly valuable,

3439
03:22:27,280 --> 03:22:28,160
Speaker 13: no matter how small.

3440
03:22:28,320 --> 03:22:31,800
Speaker 10: So unless you're rich, Yeah, unless you're rich, which can unless.

3441
03:22:31,520 --> 03:22:34,120
Speaker 13: You're rich, than what are you doing? Like why So

3442
03:22:34,360 --> 03:22:36,119
Speaker 13: there are some people I'm like, why are they like,

3443
03:22:36,320 --> 03:22:40,199
Speaker 13: oh oh oh, while I'm here, while I'm actually speaking

3444
03:22:40,200 --> 03:22:42,879
Speaker 13: of rich while I'm on a podcast, and we can

3445
03:22:42,879 --> 03:22:45,840
Speaker 13: talk about things like people who can help, like I'm

3446
03:22:45,879 --> 03:22:48,640
Speaker 13: thinking about like Taylor Swift right now, Like Taylor Swift

3447
03:22:48,640 --> 03:22:51,080
Speaker 13: can probably donate so much money to abortion funds right

3448
03:22:51,120 --> 03:22:55,360
Speaker 13: because like she's touring right now, and she's she's having

3449
03:22:55,360 --> 03:22:57,280
Speaker 13: all these concerts and various parts of the world, and

3450
03:22:57,320 --> 03:23:02,040
Speaker 13: those hotel prices are going up like crazy. So like

3451
03:23:02,440 --> 03:23:05,400
Speaker 13: I know that she had a concert in Chicago recently,

3452
03:23:05,879 --> 03:23:08,800
Speaker 13: and there the Chicago Abortion Fund was like trying to

3453
03:23:08,840 --> 03:23:12,000
Speaker 13: book hotels for traveling abortion patients. So patients who are

3454
03:23:12,120 --> 03:23:16,040
Speaker 13: traveling from band States to get abortion services in Chicago,

3455
03:23:16,080 --> 03:23:18,640
Speaker 13: and they were paying like way more for the hotel

3456
03:23:19,560 --> 03:23:23,520
Speaker 13: hotel costs because of the local Taylor Swift concert. And

3457
03:23:23,560 --> 03:23:25,960
Speaker 13: it's like, Taylor Swift, donate to abortion funds. What are

3458
03:23:26,000 --> 03:23:30,160
Speaker 13: you doing? You're driving out hotel prices for patients. Just donate,

3459
03:23:30,240 --> 03:23:33,560
Speaker 13: donate to abortion funds, Taylor Swift. So that's what I

3460
03:23:33,760 --> 03:23:36,040
Speaker 13: just wanted to add that, or any artists who's driving

3461
03:23:36,080 --> 03:23:39,560
Speaker 13: up hotel praces. Come on, people need health care. What

3462
03:23:39,600 --> 03:23:40,080
Speaker 13: are you doing?

3463
03:23:43,320 --> 03:23:47,080
Speaker 10: What wonderful system that we live in. Wonderful opportunity in

3464
03:23:47,120 --> 03:23:49,240
Speaker 10: this generation to make it not be like that?

3465
03:23:50,600 --> 03:23:53,840
Speaker 13: I know, right, Like I resent having to ask, but

3466
03:23:54,000 --> 03:23:54,480
Speaker 13: still ye.

3467
03:23:56,000 --> 03:23:58,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, so I guess that's that's my that's my closing message.

3468
03:23:59,720 --> 03:24:01,840
Speaker 10: Go out into the world and make the world not

3469
03:24:02,000 --> 03:24:02,840
Speaker 10: fucking like this.

3470
03:24:03,280 --> 03:24:05,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, can we not?

3471
03:24:05,720 --> 03:24:08,879
Speaker 10: Yeah?

3472
03:24:08,959 --> 03:24:12,119
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3473
03:24:12,200 --> 03:24:14,080
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3474
03:24:14,680 --> 03:24:17,160
Speaker 13: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

3475
03:24:17,280 --> 03:24:19,959
Speaker 6: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3476
03:24:19,959 --> 03:24:23,080
Speaker 6: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3477
03:24:23,120 --> 03:24:26,280
Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can

3478
03:24:26,320 --> 03:24:27,720
Speaker 6: find sources for it could happen here.

3479
03:24:27,800 --> 03:24:32,280
Speaker 13: Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.