WEBVTT - Can you Game a Dog Show? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.240 Guess what will? What's that? Man? Go? Time for a 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.520 pop quiz? So I want to read you a line 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:07.040 from a story I read this week and have you 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.639 guess what it's about. All right, go for it. So 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.959 here goes This is from the Chicago tribunes Rex hop Key, 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.560 and he writes, we are so far gone, so consumed 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.320 by political correctness, that unwanted and potentially dangerous outsiders are 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.520 poised to put one of our most cherished institutions at risk. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.680 Any ideas what he's talking about, I kind of don't 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.760 want to say. He's talking about cats were More specifically, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.120 he's talking about how cats are non dogs, as he 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.040 calls them, got to make an appearance at Westminster's dog 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.480 show this year. Wow, so they were actually I don't 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.760 believe this. This gotta be a story. Yeah, it's true 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.160 that they were. Actually Forty designer breeds like Twiggers and Bengals, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.360 all displayed at the Meet the Breeds event a few 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.839 days before the dog show, which of course caused some 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.960 commotion from purism can. In fact, an a k C 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.920 spokeswoman had to defend the inclusion, and she clarified it 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.400 for a Washington Post reporter by saying cats or pets too, 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.080 but they're not dogs. That's not that's not the point. Yeah, 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.480 but the whole thing made me realize I know nothing 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.560 about America's greatest dog show, and I started wondering how 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.000 did dog shows get their start, and why are they 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.480 so important to breeders? And most importantly, are there ways 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:35.319 for an outsider a game of dog show. Let's dive in. Hey, 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.880 their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.000 Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.319 man Gueshop Ticketer and behind that soundproof glass wearing the 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.840 most stylish top hat I think I've ever seen, as 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.240 our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. And today we're going 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.640 to be talking dog shows, not just how they got started, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.120 but how you can try to game them. But before 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.320 we dive in, I wanted to just thank our listeners 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.160 again for all the fun emails and messages were getting 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.880 and voice messages on our hotline. And there was one 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.040 that came in that was talking about our Weird College 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.720 Classes episode we did just a few weeks ago, and 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.560 I thought this was pretty great. It's from Catherine and 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.120 grape Vine, Texas and it says. I just finished your 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.959 podcast about college classes. You mentioned a wine appreciation class 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:18.919 in Ohio, and I had to tell you it isn't 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.600 the only one around. The decade ago, my brother took 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.680 a course like that at the University of Houston, and 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.200 my parents weren't happy and thought it would be a 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.160 total joke. Instead, he turned out to be really good 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.680 at tasting and raiding the wine, where he went on 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.840 to take a course and and study to become a 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.640 Somalia I love. He went on to judge for the 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.520 wine show for the Texas Rodeo, which I didn't know 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.080 that existed last year alone. It included twenty eight hundred 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:48.880 of entries from approximately twenty different countries, including Australia, Austria, France, Italy, Japan, Peru, 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.000 South Africa and Spain. I guess some of those weird 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.760 random classes can really pay off. Uh, this is pretty great, 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.200 So thank you so much Katherine for a for sending 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.079 this in. I guess these classes can lead to big things, definitely, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.160 But you guys keep the emails coming. Part time genius 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.040 at how stuff Works dot com or you can call 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.399 us on our seven fact hot line one eight four 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:13.560 four pt. Genius. It is still seven, right, seven, that's excellent, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.760 all right, all right, on to our main topic. You know, Mango, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.040 I know you and I both had dogs growing up, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.359 and and my family just got a new pup. Yeah, Noodles, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.560 that's right, Noodles Pierson getting the shout out on today's program. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.520 But you know, before we were coming on for the show, 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.680 you were telling me that you were pretty dog obsessed 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.560 as a kid. Yeah. I mean, I've always loved dogs, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.560 but in second or third grade, I watched this PBS 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.160 series with my mom called All Things Bright and Beautiful, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.360 which is about this country veterinarian named James Harriet, and 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.880 watching it convinced me I needed to be a vet. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.400 Like he drove around the country in this classic old 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.200 car and he had this dog riding shotgun and he 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.480 helped animals, so it all seemed kind of lovely and 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.920 ideal to me. And this was maybe a year or 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.520 two before we got a dog. In fact, I'm not 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.360 sure if I ever told you this, but my my 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.960 school had this encyclopedia of dog breeds that I found 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.320 hidden in the back corner somewhere, and I totally monopolized, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.520 like i'd return it and then immediately signed it out again. 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.640 And I don't even know why. I mean, maybe it 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:11.760 was because I figured, like a good vet needed to 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.760 start studying dog breeds early. But you know, at a 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.320 certain point, after like five or six weeks of my 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.640 name being the only one on the library card, the 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.680 librarian gently took me aside and let me know I 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:23.720 should probably let someone else check it out, like she 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.800 was very sweet about it. Library cards. I haven't thought 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.520 so like the things in the back of the books. 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:30.960 Haven't thought about that a long time. All right, Well, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.719 you know, since today's episode is all about dog shows, 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:35.560 I'm curious to hear from you, like, have you ever 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.000 gone to a dog show? No? I mean that's what's funny, 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.200 is that, as obsessed as I was, and as much 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.920 as I love dogs, I've always thought dog shows were 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.279 next level, like just a step too far. And obviously 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.280 that idea has certainly been helped by things like Best 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.760 in Show, which is an hysterical movie, but it's certainly 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.240 influences the way we think about dog shows too. Yeah, 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.279 and I don't love the pageantry and it's so ostentatious, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.279 and so you know that writer Gia Tolentino, who I love. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.800 She wrote the story about the Westminster Dog Show for 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.520 The New Yorker and in the opening scene, this is 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.240 the scene she walks into. She sees uh tall fluffy 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.200 dog strode genially around the room. I'm going to need 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.520 you to stay away from my setup. One handler histed 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.719 another as they power walk towards the staging area, wearing 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.080 sequin accented suits. Like, clearly Best and Show didn't have 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.839 to try that hard to mock some of what goes on. Wow, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.880 that's crazy. And and speaking of Best and Show, I 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.359 do remember reading and this is really no shock to 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.680 me but that none of the dog shows would let 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.240 Christopher guests film his mockumentary there, so he basically had 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.359 to build and recreate a massive dog show just for 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.920 the movie. And it's such a great movie. But let's 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.080 get back on track here, because you know, Noodles has 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.440 a dog show to win, so we need to figure 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.800 out how to game one. So before we start talking 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.080 about how to run the tables, you know, why don't 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.000 you walk us through a quick history of dog shows. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.960 You you you had the honor being assigned to looking up 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.320 the history of dog shows. That's all yours. Yeah, no problem. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.799 So Westminster is America's oldest dog show that's still around today. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.040 It is massive, like it's the only one that gets 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.960 broadcast for two nights on TV. And it's actually the 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.760 second oldest continuously held sporting competition in the US. It's 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.240 been going on since eighteen seventy seven. Wow, that's remarkable. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.400 I actually didn't have any idea how old it was. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.400 I did know what the oldest continuous sporting event was. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.120 Do you hapen to know what it is? It's the 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.880 Kentucky Derby. It's actually right around this time. I guess 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.480 it's only probably a year or so before Westminster. Yeah, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.840 that's right. But what's funny is that Westminster has been 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.279 a hot ticket from the start, and apparently people have 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.119 just always been crazy for dogs. There's this great book 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.880 called Show Dog by Josh Dean, and he talks about 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.479 the dogs at the first Westminster and actually, let me 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:40.640 read this quote just to show you how excited people 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.960 were about the first show. Among the top attractions of 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.680 that debut show were two stag hounds from a pack 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.840 owned by the then dead General George Custer, to deer 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.800 hounds bread by a queen Victoria of England, reported to 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.240 be worth fifty dollars each and it's two legged dog 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.520 said to be a veritable biped and possessing almost human intelligence, right, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.479 I know, And it was the place to be like. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.200 A New York Times story reported that the gentleman who 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.160 served as ticket sellers could not make change fast enough 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.800 to suit the impatience of the throng that was continually 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.880 clamoring for admittance. Wow, now I do feel like we 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.720 should be clear. Westminster wasn't America's first dog show. I 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:19.800 mean we we just noted that it's the oldest one 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.520 in the US that still exists today. There was one 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.400 in Chicago before that, and then of course, well before that, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.840 Crufts in Birmingham, England, and that have been going on 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.240 since Victorian times, you know. And in fact, that's probably 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.080 why these dogs shows are so you know, pageanty. I 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.320 guess it's it's it's kind of recreating that spirit maybe. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.720 But what's funny to me is that dog shows aren't 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:44.880 officially called dog shows. They're known as conformation. That's so weird. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.320 And apparently when a dog makes it to the finals 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.920 in a dog show, it's not actually competing against the 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.520 other dogs for Who's the most Beautiful? Yeah, that's right. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.560 It's actually something I didn't know before we were doing 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.679 the research for this episode. So unlike a beauty pageant 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.200 where people are competing against one another, here every dog 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.880 is being judged against how well it conforms to their 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.720 own A k C. Standards. So it isn't that this 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.640 first place terrier is more beautiful than a Great Dane. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.920 It's that the terrier is closer to being a perfect 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.840 ambassador of its breed, you might say, then, than a 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.640 great Dane was. And so, you know, but it accentuates 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.920 what dog shows are really about, and that's breeding, you know, 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.000 or more specifically, it's all about creating the most perfect 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.320 pure bread possible, which you know, this is why winning 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.400 is such a big deal, and the stud fees that 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.840 come with winning are just outrageous. Yeah, and of course 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.440 there are health complications that come with breeding pure breads, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.880 as anyone with a cursory knowledge of the Habsburgs or 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.360 any royal dynasty will tell you. Yeah, and we'll get 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.400 to some of that dark breeding stuff later. But you know, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.960 what might be my favorite fact that I learned about 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.080 Westminster this week? What's that so every year, the winner 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.320 and their dog they get to eat a victory meal 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.200 at Sardi's, you know that the legendary restaurant in New York. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.959 And there's this cute tradition. But but if someone pointed 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.400 out in two thousand and twelve, it also was this 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.439 massive health code violation. You know, you'd have the Pekinese 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.880 eating dice chicken at your table and lapping it off 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.400 the fine china, and so this was a real problem. 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.560 And so the whole thing put Mayor Bloomberg and the 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.520 city in a bind because you know, he obviously wanted 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.600 sanitary restaurants, so there was all this stress over what 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.400 to do, and there was pressure from diners and so 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.120 finally he and the city health commissioner got together and 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.679 they came up with this plan. So what they decided 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.560 is that the winner of the Westminster they also get 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.600 a one night exemption from the health commissioner to eat 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.760 dinner out in New York City. Is and this crazy, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.840 I mean, it's such a strange and gaping loophole, but 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.280 they managed to keep this tradition alive at least for 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.960 one pure bred dog a year. Well, I love that. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.840 It's so ridiculous. And speaking of food, there's this really 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.120 fun article in the Washington Post by Karen Brouillard called 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.480 Things I Learned covering Westminster, and there were a number 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:53.199 of things in it that I hadn't realized or read 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.040 anywhere else, like this makes sense to me now. But 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.960 there are three different bathroom designations for the dogs. There 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.640 there's a I see men's room dog area, a women's 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.319 room for the female dogs to relieve themselves, and then 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.560 there's one specifically for female dogs and heat. And at 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.640 first I was wondering, like, why have all these separate 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.400 but equal bathrooms. I know, I mean, they're just dogs, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.400 but but the reason is none of the male dogs 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.360 are neutered, and so because this is all about breeding 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.120 and breeding more pure breads and the stud fees like 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.600 you don't want a dog mounting another dog on a 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.920 bathroom break. Before you started this story, you were saying 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.280 this was related to food. How's this related to food? Well, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.720 I'm getting there, but first I've had another weird fact 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.400 that I hadn't thought about. So Brullard also talks about 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.520 why male dogs dominate these dog shows, and while some 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.480 breeders think it's because male dogs tend to be more beautiful. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.600 Brulard points out that this isn't exactly true and and 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.520 that it actually comes back to breeding. So if your 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.280 most beautiful female dogs are meant for breeding and you're 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.040 making tons of money off the puppies, then they're probably 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.240 going to be pregnant during the dog show season and 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.400 unable to compete on the circuit that gets you there. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.600 So female dogs are out of disadvantage and can't really 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.480 lean in. But that food fact, this is gonna be 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.240 another breeding fact. I'm guessing no, but it is the 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.199 funniest thing for Lar talks about her piece to me 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.400 and lose and that's the dry cleaners seemed to hate 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.920 dog handlers because they're always stuffing meat into their pockets. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.040 That's a great sentence like this one top handler was 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.480 talking about how she makes all these specialty treats for 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.120 her dogs and and that they're extra garlicky and dried 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.920 out and whatnot. But she'll also just use hot dogs, 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.120 so at any moment, she'll have a hot dog or 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.319 two down her bra Another great sentence. But I mean 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.920 this is like a known trick, and and she'll also 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.760 have meat treats in her pockets and sometimes melted cheese 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.000 and and all that forgotten food like gets stinky and 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.040 it's a hassle to deal with. And if you have 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.320 such a hassle that she and her dry cleaner eventually 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.520 had to break up because of it. I mean, I'm 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.400 not quite sure how you forget that there's a hot 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.600 dog and your bra melted cheese either way, but that 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:57.880 is a good fact, I'll give it to you. It 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.360 took you a while to get to that one. That 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.600 that is good. You know, it's interesting to learn that 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.280 handlers are basically like jockeys. I mean, these these top 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.319 dog owners are they're scouting and using the best handlers 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.800 to get a competitive edge, and they just want the 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.480 judges to notice their dogs. Yeah, it's it's a totally 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.360 fascinating job. And the handless story I liked the most 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.920 was about this poodle handler CAUs Osaka, who apparently lives 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.840 in Delaware, which you know, gives me extra prize. But 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.400 he's apparently the Michelangela pool grooming. I don't know anything 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.160 about this person, So what's his story? Yeah, so it's crazy. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.599 As a teenager, he was showing a Doberman at a 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.800 show in Japan, and this legendary judge who I've never 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.920 heard about. Her name's and Rogers Clark. She and her 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.320 husband were there and and they spotted him and noticed 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.199 his talent, and they basically said, like, if you want 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.960 to be a great handler, come with those to the US. 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.080 So at nineteen years old, cause who spoke zero English 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.040 and hadn't really traveled like, he just up and moved 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:54.880 in with the Clarks and and learned the art of 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.360 the poodle. And now he's undeniably the best poodle groomer 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.680 and handler in the world. But what makes him so 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.840 great isn't that he's won so much, or that he's 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.480 a perfectionist like and he has a perfectionist like he 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.160 brushes each of his twenty poodles every night, which you 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.360 can take anywhere from five minutes to half an hour 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.880 per dog. Plus he crumps their hair as he does it. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.520 But what makes him so great is that he's insanely humble, 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.160 Like here's a quote from Josh Dean thirty years later, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.120 causes unequivocally the top poodle groomer and handler in America? 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.040 How long did it take him to become good? Still? 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.439 I am no good? He said, you're the best there is, 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.480 aren't you. People think so, but I don't think. I 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.480 think learning never ends, he said, especially with poodles. Wow, well, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.600 I mean, I do know that a good handler can 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.000 certainly put a bigger spotlight on your dog, just in 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.720 reading up about this. And they're also good at scouting 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.199 the judges and masking certain defects, and so you know, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.920 they'll use different leased tricks to compensate for dog's wonky 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.600 gate or you know, they're like zhibit dogs from certain 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.760 angles just to try to get that vantage. Well, what's 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.480 that mean? Like certain angles? Well, there's something out side 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.680 wheeling where you bring the dog in from an oblique 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.240 angle so that the judge won't see like a minor 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.600 defect in the dog. And they're they're all kinds of 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.240 tricks like this. But you know, with so much money 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.720 and pride on the line, some dog owners will choose 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.280 to go beyond just hiring a great handler, and they 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.560 veered to the dark side and they'll actually play dirt, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.920 evenive or not. But before we get into the juicy 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.800 evil side of dog shows, why don't we take a 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:32.840 quick break for a quiz. So our guest today as 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.920 an award winning photographer and an animal activist who first 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.600 caught our eye with this incredible series. This is the 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.000 one where she took flower crowns and put them on 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.720 pit bulls, you know, to help them get adopted. It 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.880 was just a beautiful series. Still does these today. She's 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.840 done a ton of other wonderful work, and we'll talk 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.560 to her about that. But Sophie Gammon, welcome to Part 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.720 Time Genius. Hi, thank you for having me well, and 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.520 today's show, we're talking about dog shows for most of 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.640 the show, but you know, we're fascinated by this variation 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.920 on this the doggie pageant scene, and I just it 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:05.560 was funny. We were talking to you before you came 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.880 in today, a little bit about how you got into 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.000 shooting these doggie pageants and then the pit bulls, and 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.000 so tell us a little bit about how you did 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.720 get into this to begin with. When I actually first 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.560 moved to New York from Europe, um, I kind of 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.040 left my job, my family, my friends, everything behind. I 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:26.320 just brought a husband with me, which was helpful, I 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.640 guess technically he brought me. But so I arrived here 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.040 and I had nobody, nothing to do, and I it 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.640 was a way for me to reinvent myself, which was fantastic. 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.320 But I only had the camera and that kind of 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.280 became my way in and very quickly I realized I 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.520 was more drawn to photographing dogs than people. So I 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.640 was like, Oh, I'm just gonna do a project on dogs, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.000 and it really snowballed from there. That was almost like 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.520 seven years ago, and now I'm a full time dog 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.160 artist slash activist and all the good stuff that comes 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.200 with Wow, that's great. Today's show was really about dog shows, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.080 but we're fascinated by this variation. You covered the doggie 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.240 pageant and so as an outsider, it looks a little 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.200 like a dog show meets toddlers and try and so 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.640 can you tell us a little about dog pageants? Yeah? 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.320 So I come across that group of people in New 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.040 York um that have mostly like chihuahuas or small breed 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.560 dogs that they carry around in their purses and they 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.080 dress them up. I was looking for people who looked 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.440 like their dogs and and then I bumped into that 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.560 scene and I was like, holy moly, I have to 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.400 do something. So I guess my first contact with that 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.600 scene was this is kind of crazy and pathetic. It's 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.280 gonna make great photos, Let's go for it. And then 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.880 you know, I started meeting these people and seeing their 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.280 routine and the relationship they had with their dogs. And 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.920 as a photographer, you know, you're trying not to judge. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.400 You go in as a witness and you want to document. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.040 So I was trying really hard to do that. So 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.240 there's this very active group. They're trying to raise money 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.840 for rescues through all these events, and which is fantastic, um, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.120 but mostly it's about you know, kind of spotlight and 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.600 being on the catwalk with your dog. And so I 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.040 always say, you know, it's like, really the child pageant. 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:06.880 You think it's about the kids, but it's really about 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.560 the moms, let's be honest. So a lot of it 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.679 was just you know, single ladies in their forties, fifties, 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:18.080 sixties that have this amazing intense relationship with their dog. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.399 The dog is really like a spouse at that point. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.240 It's insane the relationship they have. And and so they 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.600 go through these fashion shows and the pageants where you know, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.320 they work on their skills together and outfits matching outfits. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.520 It's just a crazy subculture that that really fascinated me. 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.399 Is that hard to photograph dogs and clothing? No, I 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.480 actually have a series that I call dog Vogue, and 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.800 I worked with a local pet s cuterier who basically 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.280 create these amazing outfits for these chihuahuas in that scene. 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.760 I mean, some of these people buy outfits that are 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.600 worth like a thousand dollars covered in sources, crystals, like 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.160 those outfits are sometimes works of art, like really, so 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.720 it was actually really interesting for me to photograph that 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.240 fashion aspect of it. Um, some dogs loved the attention, 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.480 sometimes were miserable, let's be honest, but most of them 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.359 actually it's part of their routine. You know. When my 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.320 work came out about the pageant, I got a little 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.960 bit of hate mail sometimes or hateful comments on social media, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.840 and mostly people are like, how dare you It is 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.600 so unnatural to dress up dogs and all that? And 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.800 my answer is always like, oh, because you think it's 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.240 natural for dogs to like sniffle bombs at the airport 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.000 or guides the blind, of course not. You know, that's 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:36.240 just exactly you know, we created dogs a certain way, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.240 We created breeds, shape, sizes, skills, We invented all this 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.000 from maybe the wolf. Maybe we you know, it's very 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:48.440 unclear the exact origin, but throughout artificial selection, we completely 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:53.919 manufactured engineered this animal slash companion. They love the reward, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.919 they love the attention. They want to make us happy, 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.199 and that's how it's been for millionaire Why not? And 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.200 you talk about that a little bit on your website. Thought, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.000 I thought that was really interesting, basically saying, we are 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.199 the reason that dogs are around, right, We've created this, 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.880 and so because of that, we now have a responsibility 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:15.000 as humans to care for these absolutely. Thinking a little 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.200 bit about your work, you know with the pit bulls 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.080 and the rescue animals, um talk a little bit about 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.520 that and what you've seen happening in the rescue world. 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.280 I think if I try to look back at it 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.840 a little bit, I would say, for years, you know, 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.800 we we displayed shelter dogs as these miserable, sad, filthy, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.880 sick creatures that needed to be saved. We've all seen 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.720