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Speaker 1: This podcast is presented by Pacific Office Automation, proud partner

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Speaker 1: of the Arizona Cardinals. Learn more at Pacificoffice dot com.

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Speaker 1: Into the uptime for the touchdown, Hollywood Brown has been spectacular.

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Speaker 2: Honor to the five and end of the end zone

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Speaker 2: for the touchdown.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cardinals Underground, presented by Pacific Office Automation. Visit

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Speaker 1: Pacificoffice dot com.

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Speaker 3: Problem solved touchdown, Tyler Murray. That defender is in multiple pieces.

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Speaker 4: All that was nasty right there right.

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Speaker 1: The latest news and notes from the insiders who cover

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Speaker 1: the team.

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Speaker 4: Break it On, Break it On, tuckdown Saving Hollin slammed

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Speaker 4: the ground by fooda baker like a torpedo.

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Speaker 3: He came flying into the backfield, h skirting nobody.

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Speaker 1: Here's Paul calvic.

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Speaker 3: You know, sometimes things are so obvious that even you're

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Speaker 3: eighty three year old mother can watch football and come

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Speaker 3: up with an astute observation. Paul calvicre Darren Urban looking

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Speaker 3: perplexed and confounded.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, my mom's not eighty three, so this doesn't help.

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Speaker 3: No, it would be from Costa Calvic in the local

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Speaker 3: see normally Danny Surrek. My mom really just watches PBS. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So for her to actually turn on something other than PBS,

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Speaker 3: it's usually and typically only a forty nine Ers game.

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Speaker 3: And her conclusion when I called her the other night

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Speaker 3: was you, oh, Paul, your team gave the Niners a

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Speaker 3: lot better game than the Cowboys. And I said, you

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Speaker 3: know what, Mom, you're darn toot and they did absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Now what does that worth? What does that mean? I

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Speaker 3: don't know exactly, Probably nothing, But I'm just saying that

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Speaker 3: sometimes things are so obvious that they can be discerned

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Speaker 3: by those who are just casual observers of the sports.

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Speaker 4: See. It's funny. I never knew your mom was a

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Speaker 4: ex reporter, but that sounded like all the reporters you

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Speaker 4: always imitate, So I'm assuming she used to do that.

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Speaker 3: Well, my range of in persons is not Frank CALLI

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Speaker 3: and os. Thanks Darren, appreciate that. Okay. You know I

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Speaker 3: am somewhat limited in my scope of voices. I get it, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I mean you want me to do my New England

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Speaker 3: guy you know told me, you know, I mean I

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Speaker 3: could do Maybe. That's about it. That's about it, Danny,

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Speaker 3: Are you okay? Danny?

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Speaker 2: By the way, I'm I'm just enjoying this. I'm taking

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Speaker 2: it all in.

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Speaker 3: I'm just I want to make sure you're not there's

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Speaker 3: so many people on the injured list. I want to

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Speaker 3: make sure you're not on the injured list over here

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Speaker 3: with like a foot or feet injury.

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Speaker 2: After Sunday, no, I'm I am feeling a lot better. Look.

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Speaker 2: We stepped up for one of our own from Ron

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Speaker 2: Wolfley who was unable to be part of the broadcast

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Speaker 2: dealing with personal matter, and so you stepped up last minute,

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Speaker 2: did a great job doing color with Dave Pash. I

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Speaker 2: stepped up in heels sideline. Thank you doing sideline.

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Speaker 4: I did nothing different.

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Speaker 2: You did nothing different, Darren. We want to ask you

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Speaker 2: doing anything different. So so yes, I was not expect

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Speaker 2: to be on my feet in heels for nine nine

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Speaker 2: and a half hours. So by the end of the game,

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Speaker 2: I was recording something postgame and I took my shoes off,

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Speaker 2: so I was standing barefoot on the grass, which actually

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Speaker 2: felt amazing. I know that field is disgusting. Don't want

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Speaker 2: to clean my feet when I got home while the

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Speaker 2: spit and sweat and everything.

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Speaker 3: That's sorry you and strength coach Buddy Morris. No, will

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Speaker 3: not wear shoes on the grass garrison.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like it was actually painful too. I was cramping

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Speaker 2: in my feet. It was actually painful, like to curl

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Speaker 2: my toes because then it was like difficult to uncurl

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Speaker 2: my toes. But I am feeling a lot better now.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for checking in. But yes we are. You know,

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Speaker 2: thoughts and prayers and all of that with Ron wolf

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Speaker 2: Lee and his family at the moment, no.

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Speaker 3: Question, obviously, and we wish wolf all the best, and

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Speaker 3: you know, we'll see if he's there this weekend in

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Speaker 3: LA for the Rams game. I will say, at the

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Speaker 3: end of that game, I'm sitting in that chair and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what am I doing here? The gravity of

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Speaker 3: it all, sitting in Wolfe's chair, in his spot doing

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Speaker 3: his job. And by the way, no one gives better

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Speaker 3: job security to NFL analysts than yours, truly in my

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Speaker 3: fill in job. But just the gravity of all hit

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Speaker 3: me as to why we all took on different roles, because,

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Speaker 3: as wolf let it be known through Dave Pass and

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Speaker 3: he said it was okay to mention on the air,

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Speaker 3: he lost his younger brother over the weekend. And I've

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Speaker 3: known Dale since twenty five years plus, so it's and

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Speaker 3: he has the same passion for life and zeal for

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Speaker 3: football that Ron and his older brother Craig do. So

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Speaker 3: it runs in the family, right, And.

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Speaker 2: That's you know. I would wear heels and do sideline

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Speaker 2: every game of the week if that's what it took

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Speaker 2: to help out Ron and his family, and help out

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Speaker 2: the rest of our broadcast team and step up when

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Speaker 2: it was needed.

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Speaker 3: So I did look down there late in the game.

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Speaker 3: I said, oh boy, yeah, I see what she means

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Speaker 3: by you know. But then I also said, I hope

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Speaker 3: a play doesn't come Danny's way because I don't know

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Speaker 3: what your dexterity and es capability is in heels.

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Speaker 2: Sankfully of all heels to wear, this will mean nothing

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Speaker 2: to you, guys. That was the thickest heel that I had,

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Speaker 2: like a block heel, So it was the most comfortable

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Speaker 2: of the heels I could have worn. Thank goodness, I

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Speaker 2: almost didn't wear You look confused. I almost didn't wear

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Speaker 2: those shoes like Almas wore a skinnier heel, which would

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Speaker 2: have been a lot more painful to be on my feet,

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Speaker 2: like sinking into the grass.

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Speaker 4: Well, ultimately, your dexterity in those heels were going to

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Speaker 4: be a big deal now when Paul was wearing the

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Speaker 4: heels and he got knocked over earlier in the season,

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Speaker 4: you were wearing heels right because you didn't get out

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Speaker 4: of the way.

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Speaker 3: If only I could blame it on the heels, honestly,

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Speaker 3: it's probably more old age.

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Speaker 2: Honestly. The only play it wasn't close, but that I

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Speaker 2: was kind of like, oh, I am I need to

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Speaker 2: kind of back up, was that big James Connor run,

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Speaker 2: which ended up being the final play for him because

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Speaker 2: he hurt his knee, which we'll talk about, i'm sure

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Speaker 2: coming up on this podcast, But that play happened right

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Speaker 2: in front of me. That was kind of the only

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Speaker 2: one that I was like, oh, better back up.

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Speaker 3: How about we talked about it in three two one.

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Speaker 3: Because it is official. He's on the injured reserve. So

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Speaker 3: the next time we're going to be able to see

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Speaker 3: James Connor will be week ten against at Length. In

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Speaker 3: the earliest week your list, yep, and so quantified the loss, Darren.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there are running backs on this roster and

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Speaker 3: then there's James Connor.

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Speaker 2: I just know the moment that James Connor the injury

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Speaker 2: was listed, Darren was shaking his head thinking to himself,

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Speaker 2: I told you so.

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Speaker 4: Oh, how so, I don't know if I would have

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Speaker 4: said it. I told you so. I mean unfortunately. You know,

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Speaker 4: James Connor is a guy that gets banged up. I

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Speaker 4: love how he played. It was funny because on that

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Speaker 4: run I wanted to be able to I was waiting

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Speaker 4: for our social media team to tweet out the video

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Speaker 4: because it was such an amazing run and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to talk about how incredible it is to watch that

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Speaker 4: guy on a play by play basis what he does,

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Speaker 4: and that that run kind of encapsulated everything he's about

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Speaker 4: in terms of going hard, making everything he can out

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Speaker 4: of whatever's there. And he should have been brought down

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Speaker 4: to the backfield and he wasn't, and he ends up

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Speaker 4: gaining thirty five yards and he he he, you know,

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Speaker 4: gets undercut at the and yet it got lost real

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Speaker 4: quick because then all of a sudden he comes out

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Speaker 4: and he's banged up and he can't go back in.

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Speaker 4: And I was watching him through the binoculars and he

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Speaker 4: came back out and he had his helmet on and

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Speaker 4: he was clearly lobbying to go back in. They wouldn't

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Speaker 4: let him go back in, and eventually he just disappeared

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Speaker 4: from the sideline. And now we know they're not even

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Speaker 4: gonna let him play, so I think emotionally it's just

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Speaker 4: a killer.

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Speaker 3: And when he did leave the sideline, because twice he

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Speaker 3: went into the locker room, he was jogging at a

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Speaker 3: pretty good clip. It wasn't like he was illing and

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Speaker 3: ailing and hobbling.

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Speaker 2: And then afterwards he was warming up and doing some

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Speaker 2: short little sprints on the sideline but never went back in.

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Speaker 4: Wow, okay, yeah, So I mean, not only do you

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Speaker 4: lose a good player, but you're losing an emotional leader.

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Speaker 4: And let's face it, that's one of the positions that

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Speaker 4: everybody's kind of been wondering about anyways, in terms of

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Speaker 4: the depth, I mean, Keyanta Ingram hasn't played two weeks

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Speaker 4: in a row because of his neck. You've got a

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Speaker 4: rookie Imari de Mercado who's basically and he looked okay

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Speaker 4: yep in the game. But then beyond that, you have

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Speaker 4: some veterans who are on the practice squad or picked

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Speaker 4: off off waivers, and it's like, well, you know, exactly

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Speaker 4: where are you're going to go now?

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's a two time Pro Bowl running back

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Speaker 3: who arguably was having a third Pro Bowl caliber season.

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Speaker 3: He's number two and twenty plus yard runs in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: He's top ten, and rushing yards he's top five and

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Speaker 3: yards per carry. He never goes down at first contact,

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Speaker 3: which was part of that thirty five yard run. He

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Speaker 3: easily could have been taken down. Most running backs would

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Speaker 3: have been taken down off left tackle. He stays on

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Speaker 3: his feet, reversus field, comes all the way to the

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Speaker 3: right sideline, and then as the speed to leave guys behind,

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Speaker 3: and then also the maneuverability to get by a final guy.

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Speaker 3: But that's when he got knocked up into the air.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, just the way, the violent way in which

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Speaker 3: he went up in the air looked like that leg

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Speaker 3: just swung around, almost like an open gate.

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Speaker 2: And I was rewatching this earlier today, actually on the

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Speaker 2: ALL twenty two, and I couldn't tell if it do

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Speaker 2: look like either way it might be that right knee,

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Speaker 2: because that's the one you're talking about, Paul, that kind

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Speaker 2: of swung when he was literally horizontal. I couldn't quite tell.

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Speaker 2: And maybe if we get a chance to see him

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Speaker 2: around the locker room or ask him, I couldn't tell

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Speaker 2: if it was that final hit that kind of sprung

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Speaker 2: him in the air or the second tackle that he

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Speaker 2: kind of evaded. Looked like maybe when he planted that

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Speaker 2: right leg, it just kind of buckled in a little

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Speaker 2: and he had like a little spring when he came

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Speaker 2: back up. So I'm not sure which part of that

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Speaker 2: play was where he hurt his knee. Again, it looks

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Speaker 2: like his right and we don't have confirmation of that

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Speaker 2: right now. The other thing you're losing is that the

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Speaker 2: run game has from James Connor has really been the

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Speaker 2: only consistent part of your offense. When you're looking at

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Speaker 2: individual play, Hollywood Brown has week after week been a

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Speaker 2: bigger target, continued to be kind of that go to

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Speaker 2: player for Josh Dobbs. We've seen big plays out of

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Speaker 2: Michael Wilson. Hasn't been consistent. Whether that's on Wilson, whether

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Speaker 2: that's on Dobbs, whether that is how the game plan

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Speaker 2: was structured or how the game is unfolding. Michael Wilson

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Speaker 2: hasn't been a big time player consistently. Neither has Ron

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Speaker 2: dall Moore. When Keanta Ingram was playing, he was not

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Speaker 2: finding positive yardage when he had the ball. The first

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Speaker 2: three four weeks, we saw josh shab use his legs.

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Speaker 2: He was he had one yard I believe, on three

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Speaker 2: carries in Sunday's game. So it's really only been James

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Speaker 2: Connor that week after week has consistently been the bright spot,

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Speaker 2: no matter the situation for the offense. And now you

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Speaker 2: lose that.

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Speaker 4: The big run actually perked up his stats up until

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Speaker 4: that point. I think he end up with six carries

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Speaker 4: in the game. His first five didn't generate a whole lot,

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Speaker 4: not through lack of effort, but obviously that last run

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Speaker 4: really made a difference. But that happens with all running backs.

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Speaker 4: And the question now becomes I think one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons Joshua Dobbs has been so effective is because of

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Speaker 4: the run game. Is because they the Cardinals were the

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Speaker 4: leading play action team in the league. You know, is

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Speaker 4: who they have back there? Is that going to be

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Speaker 4: enough of a threat to make that work as much?

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Speaker 4: You know, these are the questions that you have to ask.

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Speaker 4: And as the injuries pile up, and I know, like

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Speaker 4: Jonathan Gannon's like, look, we're not gonna injuries happen to everybody.

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Speaker 4: They are what they are, But you you lose Connor

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Speaker 4: on offense, you lose everybody on defense. It feels like

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Speaker 4: at this point, I mean, if you go back and

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Speaker 4: look at who the starters were supposed to be on

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Speaker 4: defense going into the year, have they lost They They're

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Speaker 4: without like five of them right now, right.

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Speaker 3: And that's the horrible thing. I know. We sat here

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Speaker 3: on Cardinals Underground, brought you by Pacific Office Automation, I

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Speaker 3: think it was towards the end of camp, and we

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Speaker 3: just said, all right, the way the depth charts shaking out,

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Speaker 3: the way the starters are, okay, you know what, this

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Speaker 3: team can compete the first string, the starters can compete.

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Speaker 3: The real issue would be and most teams deal with

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Speaker 3: that unless you're extremely lucky. The issue is going to

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Speaker 3: be if you start getting into the second and third

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Speaker 3: layer of the depth, and now you're there, especially on defense,

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Speaker 3: arguably your top three defensive lineman, Buddha Baker the heartbeat

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Speaker 3: of the defense one more game at least to sit out.

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Speaker 3: We'll see what happens after that. And now James Connor

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Speaker 3: the heart beat of the offense. To your point, Danny,

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Speaker 3: I mean, look to talk about whether the offense is

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Speaker 3: going to have to adapt one of the favorite words

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Speaker 3: from Jonathan Gannon, out of necessity, let me ask you this,

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Speaker 3: and it's complete conjecture, but it's never stopped me from

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Speaker 3: posing the question before. Paul, you're deep in your own

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Speaker 3: end right before halftime. You use a quarterback dive to

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Speaker 3: get out of harm's way a little bit, but you're

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Speaker 3: still backed up right in front of the goal line.

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Speaker 3: You decide to go to the air. Suboptimal result, pick

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Speaker 3: six eleven yards and all of a sudden boom, Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: is the lead going into half. If James Connor is available,

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Speaker 3: are they going to the air? Is that? Did they

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Speaker 3: even take that risk of putting the ball up? And

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Speaker 3: then conversely, you have the fourth and one in Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: second sixteen and Josh Dobbs on a keeper doesn't go

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Speaker 3: so well. And Drew Petzing talked about that earlier today

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Speaker 3: as of this recording, and there was a safety in

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Speaker 3: the sea gap the way he explained it, and then

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Speaker 3: a linebacker had sniffed it out. Well, if number six

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Speaker 3: is out on the field, how many of those guys

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Speaker 3: in the front seven would have most have their eyes

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Speaker 3: on James Connor instead.

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Speaker 2: Of Dobbs And even if James doesn't have the ball.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking on that fourth and one you could fake

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Speaker 2: a hand off the opposite direction, right, because they probably

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Speaker 2: would have if you could fake it enough right, there's

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Speaker 2: a chance they would have followed James, and that would

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Speaker 2: have allowed Dobbs to have room to get that yard.

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Speaker 2: I do think that that's a question. It's unfortunate because

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Speaker 2: we just we won't know, right, But you would think

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Speaker 2: that in those two specific examples, that's a good point, Paul,

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Speaker 2: that things could have been very different if you had

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Speaker 2: James Connor out there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, even on that fourth and one, forgetting about

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Speaker 4: what he might have been in terms of a distraction

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Speaker 4: or even an option for that carry. I just like

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Speaker 4: the idea of James Connors a pulling guard in front

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Speaker 4: of Josh Dobbs, Yeah, making a block Like I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I will go back to the pass. I agree, obviously

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Speaker 4: if you have James Connor that could change some things

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Speaker 4: down there. I don't have a problem with that play call.

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Speaker 4: And as we go through it in real time, it

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Speaker 4: looked like Zach Pascal should have had a pass. It

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Speaker 4: looked like Josh Dobbs threw it a little high. Then

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Speaker 4: we find out later the pass was intended for Hollywood

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Speaker 4: Brown and I haven't had a chance to see it,

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Speaker 4: but somebody who did get a chance to see it

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Speaker 4: said that Hollywood was actually open where he was supposed

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Speaker 4: to be, and that actually would have worked out well. Now,

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Speaker 4: if that means that Pascal was in the wrong place

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Speaker 4: or whatever, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But it sounds like Pascal was in the wrong place.

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Speaker 4: And if that's true. I have a hard time with

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Speaker 4: a play call blaming the play call. I have a

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Speaker 4: hard time blaming the quarterback. I mean again, not that

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Speaker 4: I'm out there to try and blame everybody, but if

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Speaker 4: you're running a certain play and it's working up to

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Speaker 4: the point where the one receivers jamming it.

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Speaker 3: Up or what I I mean, as the play happened,

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Speaker 3: and as day Passion was calling the play and we're

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Speaker 3: up there in the booth, and it's Shakespearean tragedy, right,

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Speaker 3: and Davey's like, oh no, the worst possible scenario. Right

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Speaker 3: before the.

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Speaker 4: Half, especially after a fourth down stop at the goal line.

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Speaker 3: My initial reaction was just like, wow, that ball came

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Speaker 3: out hot. That was a fastball, that was and Pascal

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Speaker 3: he did not get his head around or his arms

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Speaker 3: up in time. Well, guess what it wasn't intended for

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Speaker 3: Pascal's intended for the second layer in Hollywood Brown. Hence

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Speaker 3: maybe the velocity on the pass because it wasn't supposed

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Speaker 3: to go five yards, supposed to go more like fifteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so but either way, what ninety seconds to go

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Speaker 3: in the half? You have the lead. Well, I mean

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Speaker 3: your punter had been you know, this is the point

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Speaker 3: Kyle Anibosch made on Red Sea Report. Your punter had

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Speaker 3: been crushing it.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Kvb's old school. What he's always going to talk

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Speaker 4: about defense and punning whatever. Here's the thing. You go

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Speaker 4: through the what they had been. At one point, the

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Speaker 4: Cardinals used up their time their timeouts to try and

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Speaker 4: get the ball back. Then the Bengals get really close,

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Speaker 4: they use the timeouts, knowing that, okay, if they end

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00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 4: up scoring here, we're going to have time to do something.

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Speaker 4: So they had already stopped the clock, but the Bengals

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Speaker 4: hadn't used any timeouts. So if you just go and

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Speaker 4: run it up the middle three times and give yourself

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Speaker 4: to the three yard line, the Bengals are going to

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Speaker 4: get a short field. No matter how good gillickn punch

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Speaker 4: it with, you know, with a chance to score again.

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Speaker 4: And I think that was kind of Again, I don't

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Speaker 4: have a huge issue with the play call to pass it.

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Speaker 4: I have an issue with the execution, and you know

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Speaker 4: that always goes into it. But I'm not first half.

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Speaker 4: Obviously it was worst case scenario. But I just I

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Speaker 4: don't have a problem with a play call, especially now

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Speaker 4: knowing what happened. And I don't have a problem with

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Speaker 4: I mean, I have a problem if Zach Pascal isn't

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Speaker 4: in the right place, but I don't have a problem

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Speaker 4: with the rest of it. But I get it. But

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Speaker 4: if he had nailed Hollywood Brown for fifteen yard play,

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Speaker 4: it'd be like, Okay, this is the offense we're seeing

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00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 4: and they're playing with I mean.

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Speaker 3: And as for the quarterback keeper on fourth and that

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00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 3: got snuffed out.

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Speaker 4: That one, I have a little bit more of an issue.

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Speaker 3: And sniffed out. I mean, Drew Petsen was somewhat honest

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00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 3: with the media and then he said, yeah, those are

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00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 3: the kind of play calls that keep me up at night. Yeah,

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00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,440
Speaker 3: I dot gun, I do goot gun. I do ask

366
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 3: myself if a play like that is a little too

367
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Speaker 3: predictable in the moment. What I don't like about the

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00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 3: play call itself is just that any play in that

369
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,439
Speaker 3: situation a shotgun. So instead of fourth and one plus,

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Speaker 3: it's fourth and five plus B. It's just a slower

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Speaker 3: developing play. And when a defense is ready to come

372
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Speaker 3: off the ball with a vengeance on fourth and one,

373
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Speaker 3: and guess what, there's a turnover on downspending on this snap.

374
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Speaker 3: If you have a slow developing play, I just it

375
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Speaker 3: just gives the defense too much time.

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Speaker 2: And going off that I mean the killer following up

377
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 2: that is the following drive. The Bengals got the ball

378
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Speaker 2: their own sixteen seventeen. They're following drive scored a touchdown

379
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 2: the third for Jamar Chase ate up nine minutes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny because we were talking to Nick Rollis

381
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 4: this week and he I mean, technically, the Bengals had

382
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 4: one explosive play in that game. One. Now, they had

383
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Speaker 4: a couple of nineteen yard plays, but those all their

384
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 4: top plays were passes, and in the NFL, it's if

385
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Speaker 4: it's not twenty yards, is not thought of it as explosive.

386
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Speaker 4: So they only give up. Now, it was a big one.

387
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 4: It was that bomb where they blew the zone coverage,

388
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 4: and I'm not denying that.

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Speaker 3: By the way, there was a next gen stat on

390
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Speaker 3: that I have right here. The sixty three yard strike

391
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 3: traveled fifty eight point one yards in the air of Burrows,

392
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Speaker 3: longest completion by air distance of his career, and Jamar

393
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 3: Chase reached a top speed of twenty one point five

394
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 3: four miles per hour, this sixth fastest speed by a

395
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Speaker 3: ball carrier this season and the second fastest of his career.

396
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Speaker 4: It was a gorgeous play by both of them, But

397
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,360
Speaker 4: it's it's kind of where this catch twenty two comes in,

398
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 4: like you want to limit the explosive plays. Like I

399
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 4: got a question in the mailbag week somebody was upset.

400
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 4: I don't understand it. I don't understand why they play off.

401
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 4: I don't understand why they play off while.

402
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 3: They play off talking about the cushion at the.

403
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 4: Cushion because they don't want to get beat deep And

404
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 4: you can say what you want, Like his point was

405
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 4: like Key Trout, Clark and Marco Wilson can play press coverage.

406
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, are you sure about that? Like, do you

407
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 4: do you want them playing press against Jamar Chase? Like,

408
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't know if that's the best thing.

409
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 4: We talk about it all the time. It's really hard

410
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 4: in this league to have nine minute drives or twelve

411
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 4: to fifteen play drives. And that's what beat them the

412
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 4: other day. And that's you gotta figure out. I mean,

413
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 4: if the other team doesn't make any mistakes, it's it is.

414
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 4: It's gonna be death by a thousand paper cuts.

415
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 3: But and we talked about during the game, right Daniels said,

416
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 3: Burrow is just giving what the Cardinals give him. He's

417
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 3: looking at Jamar Chase as his number one option, not

418
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 3: a surprise, but he's especially looking at him because a

419
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 3: lot of times there's eight to twelve yards of cushion

420
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Speaker 3: and if you're just gonna let him make the short

421
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 3: catch and a lot of times and this is what

422
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 3: Jonathan Gannon said on his TV show going Againstzach Taylor.

423
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 3: He said he's very creative getting his top weapons in space,

424
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 3: creative ways getting them the ball. So you saw Jamar

425
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: Chase on fly sweeps and then getting the ball. You

426
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 3: saw him in the middle of trips receivers sort of

427
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: in a semi diamond type thing, and the two guys

428
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 3: are running an interference in front of him, and he's

429
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 3: catching it and now he has blockers. So you saw

430
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 3: a lot of different ways what we didn't see, at

431
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 3: least to my eye, and you watch the all twenty

432
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,439
Speaker 3: two sounds like Danny is, we didn't see a lot

433
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 3: of the press man that Darren talks about with maybe

434
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 3: help over the top the bracket, help over the top

435
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 3: of safety. Whereas okay, there's no t Higgins. I'll let

436
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 3: sixteen catch as many balls as he wants, whatever his

437
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 3: name is, that's great, but we're gonna do everything we

438
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 3: can to take Jamar Chase out of the game. And

439
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 3: that's where JG got animated and irritated after the game

440
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 3: with himself, with himself at your question, which was do

441
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 3: us give us a dratic reenactment? What was the question

442
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 3: by Danny?

443
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 2: The question before was about the secondary and Jamar Chase,

444
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: and my follow up question to that was Marco Wilson

445
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 2: traveled with Jamar Chase. It was the first time all

446
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 2: season we'd seen a cornerback travel, which is something we

447
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 2: talked about. Kee Troll Clark and Marco Wilson had been

448
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: staying on their sides given Kee Troll played. He didn't start.

449
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: It wasn't Tonio Hamilton. It was an interesting game in

450
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 2: the secondary for a lot of reasons. But I asked

451
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: j G about Marco traveling and that's all I phrased

452
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: it as, and JG he wasn't heated, but he was passionate.

453
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: He I don't think he looked at any reporter. He

454
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 2: looked straight ahead from the podium, and you could tell

455
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 2: as he continued on about that play and defending Jamar Chase,

456
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 2: the play of the DB's not just Marco Wilson. He

457
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: was passionate. He took a lot of the blame and

458
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: responsibility on himself, and he was saying, you can't let

459
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 2: their best player be their best player, and that's what

460
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: they did. And he caught himself from saying an F bomb.

461
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: I think when he said it's my fault, looked like

462
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 2: he was gonna pause out, Yes, just the F I mean,

463
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 2: And I understand it was even though they might not

464
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: have had what are considered chunk plays, it looked like

465
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase was always open. It looked like he was

466
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: having no problem not only catching the ball but getting

467
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: a few extra yards.

468
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: He tweeted out a picture of himself in a seven

469
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 3: to eleven. Did he not always open?

470
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: Yeah? And that's the thing is, as we talked about it,

471
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: before you knew the Bengals were gonna need to get

472
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: right game, they entered the game at one in three

473
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: that that Burrow Chase connection had not been there. Now,

474
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 2: this was the healthiest Joe Burrow had been with that

475
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: calf injury he's been nursing. Jamar Chase hadn't found the

476
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: end zone. Joe Burrow had zero touchdowns in three of

477
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: the four games entering Sunday's matchup against the Cardinals. And

478
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: that was, unfortunately, the time that the Bengals at least

479
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: those two got their connection and got hot and got rolling,

480
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: and Jamar Chase ended up with three touchdowns. And that's

481
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: not just on Marco Wilson. It seems like Chase was

482
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: running wherever he wanted all over that secondary.

483
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 4: Let's be fair here. The seven to eleven wasn't really

484
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 4: a shot at the Cardinals. Let's remember that in the

485
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 4: days preceding the game, he let all the Bengals writers

486
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: know that he was always effing open, So that I

487
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 4: think that was a callback to that rather than what

488
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 4: happened against the Cardinals. I will also say.

489
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: Him playing it into existence right what he said after

490
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 3: the Tennessee loss.

491
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 4: I will also say that that moment when Jonathan Gannon

492
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 4: was talking to all of us, but off of Danny's question,

493
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 4: sitting in almost the exact same seat that I sat

494
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 4: in in two thousand and six when Danny Green was

495
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 4: up there against the Bears, there was a hint of that.

496
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 4: There was the calm beginning, and then as he was

497
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 4: talking about a subject that was really aggravating him, the

498
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: emotion started a climb at Now, Jonathan Gannon was able

499
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: to hold on a lot better than Denny Green was

500
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: able to. There was no hitting of the podium, same

501
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 4: podium by the way, um or and and he did

502
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 4: prevent himself from, you know, using any foul language, which

503
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 4: Denny was not able to do that night. But but

504
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 4: I did feel like like he started, he was like, yeah,

505
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 4: they had a guy with a lot of catches and

506
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 4: a lot of yards and a lot of touchdowns. And

507
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 4: the more he went, you could just hear it in

508
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: his voice. The irritation grew and grew and grew.

509
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: Darren said that as we were then walking into the

510
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: locker room to me, he made that comparison of oh,

511
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: this is what it felt like. Look, it was a

512
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: good question. I stand and he wasn't not that that

513
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: passion wasn't towards me. I absolutely understand that.

514
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 4: And Mark Brown when he asked Denny the question about

515
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 4: the six rox scross from tournaments, that was a fine

516
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 4: question as well.

517
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: Little do I know that I am the reason behind

518
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: of folk Tales.

519
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: And here's the exact quote, by the way transcribe. You

520
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: can't let their best player beat you. And that's what

521
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: we just did. That falls solely on me, and we

522
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: can't let that happen again. Point blow. That's the game

523
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: right there. You let their best player beat you. I'm

524
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 3: pissed off about that. It's my fault.

525
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was the heated part, Like the calm part

526
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 4: was before that. That all was the heated part.

527
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: And by the way, as we're doing this Cardinal's Folk

528
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: Tales and there's a lot of Dennis Green and this

529
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: whole Kurt Warner renaissance thing, and we're going through all

530
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: the postgame radio interviews and jim O. Mahunterra myself have

531
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 3: noticed a pattern with Denny Green, and it's based on

532
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: a pattern I had where we do the postgame Raider

533
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 3: interview back in the day, and I'd always say last

534
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: question for the head coach Dennis Green, I'd recap it

535
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: and I use the words last question eight times out

536
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: of ten. He had something left to say that he

537
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: hadn't got in yet and it had nothing to do

538
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: with my question. But goll darn it, he was gonna

539
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 3: make his point because he had something in mind that

540
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: he was gonna vent about.

541
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 4: Okay, now we're getting off topic. But if we're talking

542
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 4: about Denny Green and again, and.

543
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 3: How many coaches do that, I guess is what I'm saying.

544
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: The application to today is that some coaches they have

545
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 3: something in mine They're just waiting for a moment where

546
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 3: they can make that point, and sometimes it has to

547
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 3: do the question. And sometimes Denny was like like.

548
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 4: Obviously, Gannon's response was directly on point. The year when

549
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: we were in training camp with Denny in two thousand

550
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 4: and six, the year with the Monday Night meltdown. That

551
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: was also the year they had drafted Matt Liner yep

552
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 4: and Matt Lioner. In those days, rookie contracts were not slotted,

553
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 4: and Matt Liner we got a couple weeks into training camp,

554
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 4: and it was right before the New England Patriots. The

555
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 4: Cardinals were going to travel to New England to play

556
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 4: the Patriots in the second week of the preseason, and

557
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: Matt Lionert had not signed yet. It turned out that

558
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 4: this whatever day we were talking, we got Denny at

559
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: lunchtime after the morning practice. Lionard ended up agreeing to

560
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 4: his contract later that day. I think I think Denny

561
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: knew that I was closed. The rest of us really didn't.

562
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 4: The question from somebody in the cores was how the

563
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 4: toe injury was or Antonio Smith or Carlos Dansby or something.

564
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 4: That was the question. The answer ended up being, well,

565
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 4: Antonio Smith is working really hard to get back on

566
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 4: the field because he knows it's important to play against

567
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: the Patriots this weekend. You know who else is playing

568
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: against the Patriots this weekend? Kurt Warner. Kurt Warner knows

569
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 4: this is an important game, and Tom Brady that he

570
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 4: that's an important game. You know who's not going to

571
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 4: play in this game? Matt Liner and Matt Line, and

572
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: it would just went on and on and on. It

573
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 4: was this soliloquy basically of like how dare this kid

574
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: not be signed and in camp practicing by now.

575
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring us back real quick.

576
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 4: Oh so that was great.

577
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: No, that was great. Truth while I sorry, that's okay,

578
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: that was awesome.

579
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 3: Well, really care While.

580
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: I appreciate and understand a head coach, especially right after

581
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: the game, you don't have time to look at the

582
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: film obviously yet, but to I really do appreciate when

583
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: a head coach at the podium is accountable and takes

584
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: responsibility and you're not throwing your players under the bus

585
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,239
Speaker 2: before you can rewatch everything. Marco Wilson knows how his

586
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: play was, and he knows because when he had reporters

587
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: waiting for him at his locker postgame, he didn't talk.

588
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: And I don't think Marco Wilson is at least I

589
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: don't think so. Do you think any differently? I don't

590
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: think Marco Wilson has ever not talked when the media

591
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: has been waiting for him after a practice or game.

592
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 4: I think generally Marco has been available. I don't know

593
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 4: if the days he's had bad games, if we've always

594
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 4: wanted to talk to him. It was clear I was

595
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 4: one of the people waiting for him. He was getting

596
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: dressed everybody. The way it usually works is these guys

597
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 4: are getting dressed and usually they have and they're in

598
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 4: their locker with their backs to us while we're all waiting,

599
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: and then they turn around and they either know they

600
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: know you're there, usually say hey, can I get a second?

601
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: And I'd like to say, like Antonio Hamilton, I went

602
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 4: up to him one on one and obviously he wasn't

603
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: thrilled with how that game went either, and I said, hey,

604
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: ham I said, do you got a second? And he

605
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: looked at me and he's like, I'd rather not, and

606
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 4: he paused and he goes but what he got, Because

607
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 4: that's kind of how it works, Uh, Marco. Marco got

608
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 4: dressed and he never faced us, and he kind of

609
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 4: moved off to the side so he didn't actually have

610
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 4: to make eye contact with anybody, and then walked out

611
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: the door, so nobody even got a chance to say anything.

612
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: And again it's these guys have the right to do

613
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: what they want.

614
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

615
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: I mean, you are supposed to be available after games

616
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: for comment, and I understand, and in some ways that

617
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 4: is a comment when you're that frustrated.

618
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: Right, That was the point I was trying to make,

619
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: and I will like to go.

620
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: Back and even though Marco was traveling a chunk of

621
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 4: that game, it wasn't all on him by any stretch.

622
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 4: There were a number of catches Jamar Chase caught in

623
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 4: zone coverages where Marco had nothing to do with the play,

624
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 4: including that bomb that had He was on the other

625
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 4: side of the field. He had nothing to.

626
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: Do with that.

627
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: But it's it obviously resonated with him, and it's good

628
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 4: that JG said, hey, we have to be better and

629
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: as coaches.

630
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: But you know, so here's the other next gen stat.

631
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: I just called it. Jamar Chase finished with a career

632
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: high fifteen catches, one two three touchdowns. Chase was targeted

633
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 3: on seven of nine routes against man coverage, hauling in

634
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: six catches for fifty nine yards and two touchdowns, and

635
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: he leads the NFL with the X number of yards

636
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 3: over expected against man coverage since twenty twenty one, So

637
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: he excels against man. To your point, there were plenty

638
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: of instances where he made catches against zone. Well, it's

639
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: definitely part of the game plan.

640
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: And there was one play you mentioned he got six

641
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 4: catches for two touchdowns. One of those touchdowns was man

642
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: and it was Marco following him in the end zone,

643
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 4: but there was little and it Burrow moved a little

644
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 4: bit to give him some freedom, but Marco Wilson was

645
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 4: asked to cover Jamar Chase out to the left and

646
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 4: all the way back across for there was no pressure.

647
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 4: I am not putting that at Mark.

648
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: That wasn't That wasn't my point of I know, but

649
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: people I don't. I don't want it to say, Okay, well,

650
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase having the game he did fall solely on

651
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: Marco Wilson. That wasn't the point. The point was we'd

652
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: seen a different game plan, yeah, from the beginning from

653
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: this coaching staff that we hadn't seen when you are

654
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: already facing Look, Jamar Chase is a great receiver. I'd

655
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: asked this leading up to that game, right to Nick Rowlis,

656
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: that you face good receivers every week. It's not just

657
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase, like there's a challenge every week. My point being,

658
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: when it was Ceedee Lamb with the Cowboys, when it

659
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: was you know, John Dotson with Washington, whatever it might be,

660
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: we weren't seeing any sort of dB travel with one

661
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 2: receiver the way we were seeing Marco Wilson. Now, look,

662
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: does that correlate less about Marco Wilson in the matchup

663
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: with Jamar Chase and more about the fact that key

664
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: Trell Clark didn't start, and so you wanted Marco Wilson,

665
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: who's been playing more defensive snaps than Antonio Hamilton. Like,

666
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: there could be a lot of that we don't know

667
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: about that went into that decision of having Marco travel

668
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: with Jamar Chase.

669
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 4: Well, and you also didn't have Jalen Thompson the entire

670
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 4: second half, yep. And he's a big part of their

671
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 4: past coverage.

672
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: Big part of the communication in the pass coverage. I

673
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: just had one of the questions I asked Jonathan Gannon

674
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: after the game, was the sixty three yard strike? Was

675
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: that Jamar Chase beating coverage or was that a busted coverage?

676
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: And he actually answered, he said that was not a

677
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: busted coverage and to answer, so he beat coverage on that,

678
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: and whether it was Andrea Sacherat or whomever was trailing

679
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase by a good margin. Obviously, we just read

680
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 3: you the stat The dude was running twenty one point

681
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: five miles an hour. He can move, he can scoot

682
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: and when Jalen Thompson isn't back there. Who knows would

683
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: the result have been different. All we do know is

684
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 3: that Jalen Thompson and Buddha Baker out of your secondary.

685
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: I mean there's just no there's no replacing that.

686
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: The good thing is, I guess we just talked all

687
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: about James Connor going on IR. Jalen Thompson didn't go

688
00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 4: on IR.

689
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: So good point.

690
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 4: Now does that mean he's playing this week?

691
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: He didn't even come back out of the locker room

692
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: second half. I didn't sit back.

693
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: On the side feeling super optimistic because.

694
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: Guess who's had big games against the Cardinals secondary in

695
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: the past? Cooper Cup. Noah, he's back. Well, he they

696
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 3: shut him down the first game of last year or

697
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: twenty one maybe twenty one, that was his NFL Offensive

698
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: Player of the Year campaign, where in fact there was

699
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: one game where he.

700
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 4: Had like four catches for like thirty yards.

701
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 3: Or and it was twenty one. It was the first

702
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: meeting because I remember Jalen Thompson played really well in

703
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: that game. Yes, because I remember using on the air

704
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: the headline after this game is the cup is empty

705
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: because he didn't do much, but he ended up one

706
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: hundred and forty five catches that year, second all time

707
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: by the way, and one forty seven yards were receiving

708
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, that was second all time, and

709
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: you could argue his worst game of the year was

710
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: against the Cardinals. That first game against the Cardinals cost

711
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: him a two two thousand yard receiving season just two

712
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: years ago. He only played eight games last year because

713
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: he was injured. That actually happened against the Cardinals against

714
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 3: Marco Wilson of memory serves on the Rams sideline last

715
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 3: year because Sean McVay was hot about that. He thought

716
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 3: it was a late hit and so anyway, he came

717
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: back last week. He had eight catches in that game.

718
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 3: They missed, They missed a couple of deep shots, if

719
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 3: you hear Matthew Stafford and Cooper Cup say it. So

720
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: there hell been on making sure that they get that

721
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: chemistry down this week. But he's still had eight for

722
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: one to eighteen on the opening drive, which was an

723
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: opening touchdown drive the Rams against the Eagles last week,

724
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: he had five catches for fifty six yards. So and Pokinacoua,

725
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 3: they said he had a down game. He had seven

726
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 3: catches for seventy one. So you've got a Rams top

727
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 3: five passing game coming in in this game against the

728
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 3: Cardinals secondary, against the Cardinals banged up defense. I mean, Danny,

729
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: you know almost saying is if you end up on

730
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: the sideline, do not wear the heels because you'll be

731
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: walking and down the sideline quite a bit.

732
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: No, I will be packing accordingly. I will plan just

733
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: in case we need to step up and fill in.

734
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 2: You would hope the way that I don't want to

735
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: make this comparison now that I've started, you would hope

736
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: the way that the way that the Bengals use the

737
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: Cardinals matchup as a quote get right, You would hope

738
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: maybe the Cardinals, especially the secondary defense as a whole,

739
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: coming off that Bengals game, could use a get right

740
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: game against the Rams. And I know that's not a

741
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: fair comparison of the Bengals being healthier and starters, and

742
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: it's about finding that connection. And in terms of the

743
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 2: Cardinals situation, it's majority of your bigger players on defense,

744
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 2: your starters are hurt, and I understand that's a different comparison,

745
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: But to come off the way that you did, if

746
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: you're the Cardinals defense, you have to come out ready

747
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: to have guns blazon against this Rams team and try

748
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: and turn things around. And the fact that as good

749
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: as Cooper Cup is, you just proved it's possible to

750
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: shut him down.

751
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: It's it's gonna be fascinating to me. Like, like I said,

752
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 4: Jalen Thompson didn't go on ir but that doesn't necessarily

753
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 4: mean he's gonna play this week. We'll have to see

754
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: what kind of and if he's hurt, that changes the perspective.

755
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 4: But like had Jalen Thompson stayed healthy, does Key Truck

756
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 4: Clark play last week? Which was a surprising thing for everybody,

757
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: And then asking Nick Rolis this week and he said,

758
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 4: Antonio Hamilton will continue to get reps. Now, if Jalen

759
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 4: Thompson is down, you're gonna need Keith truck Clark and

760
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 4: Antonio Hamilton and Marco Wilson. They're all gonna play.

761
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: And maybe Garrett Williams dot dot dot.

762
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 4: Maybe I still think that's probably not We're not there yet.

763
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 4: By the way, we didn't say anything, Danny.

764
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 3: We've called this so he beat L a week between

765
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 3: the Diamondbacks and the Cardinals. It's beat L a week.

766
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: And if you look at the Rams. Per your point

767
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 3: over there, Danny beat a bowl is what I would

768
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: say about the Rams. I mean they're starting a line

769
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 3: as multiple undrafted players and a rookie, even though Matthew

770
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 3: Stafford has put together really good numbers so far, so

771
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 3: that a bull reference a defensive line as I ignore

772
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: that with two undrafted starters, right, they got a fourth

773
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 3: round pick all around Aaron Donald and then the secondary.

774
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: They hit the reset button. They have three starters, really

775
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 3: getting the first significant NFL action, especially when you consider

776
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: that that there are two starting corners for a long time,

777
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: have been two draft picks, two Day three draft picks,

778
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: Darien Kendrick around six corner, Kobe Durant around four corner.

779
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: They signed the veteran Marko Welson. Yeah, so I mean

780
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 3: it's uh, you know, I mean, so we'll see. I mean,

781
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: it's definitely there's definitely opportunity at so far. Put it

782
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 3: that way.

783
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: The quarterback is very different this week. Even a hurt

784
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, who was quote unquote immobile, is still more mobile,

785
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: I would argue than a Matthew Stafford. So Joe Burrow

786
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: was getting the ball out and I don't I don't

787
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: know the updated time, but before Sunday's game, he was

788
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 2: getting the ball out in two point four seconds, which

789
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: was second fastest in the league. I don't think that

790
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: Matthew Stafford. I don't know where he falls on that list,

791
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: but my point being that he typically doesn't get the

792
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: ball out as quickly. He's not as mobile, he's not

793
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: going to extend the plays the same way as Joe Burrow.

794
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: So maybe this pass rush from the Cardinals can be

795
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: a little more effective. Maybe you can blitz and the

796
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: way that it didn't really make sense against the Bengals

797
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: who were getting the ball out so quickly. I think

798
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: that's an opportunity that wasn't really there before that could

799
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: be there now. And if you're the offense, if your

800
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 2: offensive corner drew Pensying, you got to find a way

801
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: to get Josh jobs running again, because if you're not

802
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: going to have James Connor, Josh Dobbs has been getting

803
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: the second most rushing yards per game behind James Connor,

804
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: So you got to find a way to have some

805
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: space for him so that you can rely on that

806
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: mobility from your quarterback in a way you were not

807
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: able to against Cincinnati.

808
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: I mean Joe Burrow with a calf injury out rush.

809
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: Josh Dobbs correct, because I mean all you have to

810
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 3: do is look, was late third quarter, was first and ten,

811
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 3: and Joe Burrow ran for that first down. He realized

812
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: the defense had their backs to him, and he ran

813
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,479
Speaker 3: eleven to twelve. The yards picked up the first down,

814
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: and at that point, I think on the air, I

815
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: went with sandbagger. I mean what he was saying during

816
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 3: the week about, oh, I can't run and I can't

817
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 3: steal those first downs with my legs like I used

818
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: to be able to. I mean, that's like Larry Fitzgerald

819
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: the first time he woned the Pebble Beach proram going

820
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: in with a handicap of like twenty. Okay, we're talking

821
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: total sandbagger here. What Joe Burrow did to the Cardinals

822
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: defense because he was obviously nimble enough to extend plays

823
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: and buy time, and he.

824
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 4: Wasn't on the injury report, and we all wondered about that,

825
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 4: and I guess there was a reason he wasn't on

826
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 4: the injury report.

827
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 3: And here's the thing too, I mean, you can try

828
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: and bring the blitz, but the veteran quarterbacks know what

829
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: they're looking at. Once again, going back to the latest

830
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: Cardinals folktales, Kurt Warner used to beg defensive coordinators to

831
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: blitz him. He could read it instantly and then he

832
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: was guaranteed to have an open man, at least in

833
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: his mind. And that's the risk reward when you go

834
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: against a Joe Burrow, the highest paid player in the league,

835
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: or Matthew Stafford in his mid thirti and he's seen

836
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: everything you get, so boom, he's going to find a

837
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: guy if you're bringing the numbers after him. So you

838
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: better pick your spots and you better get home because

839
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: you try that, like for example, the end of last

840
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 3: season against Tom Brady, and Tom Brady was like Peyton

841
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 3: Manning at the end of his career. If you get

842
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 3: close enough, he's just gonna go down. But Cardinals really

843
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: couldn't get that close to Tom Brady before he was

844
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: able to read, react, discern, and deliver the ball, you

845
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 3: know last year. Yeah, so you can say, oh, that's Brady,

846
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: what's that guy that game? But they didn't get to him.

847
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: It's really my point that so we'll see, we'll see

848
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: point well, we'll see you know what you know by

849
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: the way just for the snark right there. You know,

850
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to retaliate by that's taking this

851
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: moment to point out that the Paully Pigskin breakout players

852
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: of Camp Boll shined in Week five? Did they not? What?

853
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: What do you mean?

854
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: Both?

855
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: Because your list was seven.

856
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 3: I whoodled him down to two and by August first,

857
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 3: the aute offense, I got so much heat. I whittled

858
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 3: it down to an offensive and defensive breakout player at

859
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: Camp won a Mari de Mercado and Dante Stills respectively.

860
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 3: And where were both guys in that game? Obviously, Amari

861
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 3: de Mercado has already gotten his.

862
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 4: Mention forty yards in a touchdown.

863
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: There you go. And the defensive stats, uh, here they

864
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 3: are in Dante Stills, he had the sack and the

865
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: shout out from Dave Pash in honor of Dale Wolfley,

866
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: but he also had six tackles. He had two tackles

867
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 3: for loss and a quarterback hit for the six round

868
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: rookie out of West Virginia, Dante Stills.

869
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 4: So there, if you're getting good production from a six

870
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: round pick, and with de Mercado an undrafted rookie, that's

871
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 4: again I.

872
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: Think, I mean, where's the big feature? Let the Rooks

873
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: cook on Azycardinals dot com. When is that coming?

874
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 4: It's tougher when Ketro Clark apparently loses his playing time.

875
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 3: Maybe sync it up with the return Garrett Williams and.

876
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: Michael Wilson didn't get any targets.

877
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: Okay, so they did they take Michael Wilson out of

878
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 3: the game? Did they see his previous game? And we're

879
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 3: giving extra defensive attention to number fourteen or Drew Petsy

880
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: was asked that question midweek and he said, well, just

881
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 3: the way the Reids went, just the way the game went,

882
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: and we I did ask that was my final question

883
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 3: to Jonathan Gannon right after the game in the radio interview,

884
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 3: and he said, no, obviously not by design. It's just

885
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 3: sort of the way you know, the game went. And

886
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: he didn't get any targets to the very end, and so.

887
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 4: It's look, it is going to happen. The number of

888
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 4: people over the years that would be like, why aren't

889
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: you targeting Larry Fitzgerald fifteen times a game?

890
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know where you're going after this,

891
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: but I do.

892
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: I know hang On doesn't matter because she's going a

893
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: different direction point.

894
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: Being of when you're talking about being targeted late in

895
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: the game, I do think we should mention the classic

896
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: by the Bengals. Oh yes, with that was my point was,

897
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: if you guys wanted to keep talking Cardinals, we could

898
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 2: wait until the end. But I thought that it was

899
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: really classy, just the way Kwame Laster the second was recognized.

900
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: He was elevated from the practice squad because starting Bengals

901
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: receiver Tie Higgins was ruled out of the game with

902
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: a ribs injury. kJ was involved in the coin toss

903
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: and then once the game was already put away, the

904
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: fight would ended up being the final throw for the

905
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 2: Bengals offense. It was a designed play and it went

906
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: to kJ and so he got to have a catch

907
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: in State Farm Stadium. Although his father, the late Kwame Laster,

908
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: a long time starting safety for the Cardinals, one of

909
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: the most beloved in the organization, he was involved in

910
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 2: Big Red Rage, He was involved in all sorts of things,

911
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: not just on the field but throughout other parts of

912
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: the organization. But to have that full circle moment, to

913
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: get to play against the organization that you grew up

914
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: watching your dad play for postgame, Bengals coach Zach Taylor

915
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: gave a game ball to Kwame last of the second

916
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: and not only that, but gave a little background on

917
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: Kwame himself to the rest of the team on just

918
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: the career he had, the type of person he won

919
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: so just I thought it was really special and really

920
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: classy the way the Bengals handle that situation so beautifully.

921
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: And I do think we should also promote the folk

922
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: Tales episode that we did last year on Kwame Lassiter

923
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: and his legacy, which was really beautifully well done, really well.

924
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,479
Speaker 3: Said Danny. It's really well encapsulated right there, and there's

925
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 3: no doubt. I mean, Kwami Laster one of the great

926
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 3: all time Arizona Cardinals, not just a player, but a personality.

927
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 3: I mean, just always positive, always energetic, always funny, self deprecating,

928
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: I mean just wonderful, such a wonderful spirit to have

929
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: been around all those years.

930
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: Agreed, And we did last year. We did a great

931
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 4: folk Tales episode, Last's Less Legacy, which you can find

932
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 4: on YouTube, that kind of encapsulated all that based around

933
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 4: his four interception game that helped the Cardinals get to

934
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 4: the playoffs back in nineteen ninety eight. And speaking of

935
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 4: folk tales, this week, we have a new episode out

936
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 4: Renaissance Man, which is all about Kurt Warners. We know

937
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 4: how Kurt finished up, and that's a small part of this,

938
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 4: but most of this episode is going to be about

939
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 4: how he came to Arizona hoping to restart his career

940
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 4: and because of the Matt Lioner situation in his own play,

941
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 4: it almost ended before any of those last three years

942
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 4: got him to the Hall of Fame. And that's what

943
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 4: this focus is on, is his ability to come back

944
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 4: from what seemingly looked like a dead career in Arizona.

945
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 3: You know what's somewhat ironical if you will to bring

946
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: it back Danny to right here in today was I

947
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: was so prepared if Josh Doabbs went out and torched

948
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: the Bengals defense to go with a Kurt Warner career

949
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 3: comparison hot take at age twenty eight. Both come out

950
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: of nowhere and they come on the NFL scene. So

951
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: where does the stocks stand right now on Josh Doabbs.

952
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 3: Where are we on exactly what he's capable of? Right

953
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 3: What was our discussion this time last week? What's the upside?

954
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: What's the ceiling. Well, how much did that performance against

955
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 3: the Bengals bring everyone back down to earth a little bit?

956
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: I mean partially, But I don't necessarily think that the

957
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: progression we saw week after week, the performance we saw

958
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: from Josh Dobbs was a fluke like that doesn't seem

959
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 2: like the you know, it wasn't who Josh Dobbs is

960
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: or can be. I do think that it's fair to

961
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: say that when you're looking at expectations or the ceiling

962
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: week to week, it's different expectations in somebody like a

963
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: Kyler Murray. Absolutely, with just the experience and all of

964
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: that that goes into that. But I'm not too down

965
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: on what we saw from Josh Dobbs per se. Look,

966
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: it wasn't a great performance that That's not what I'm

967
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: trying to take away from. But I still think that

968
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: we've seen that he is capable of leading this offense

969
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 2: with who they have. Again, this was before James Conna

970
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: got hurt, but but who who they have on this

971
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 2: team that he can keep them in games.

972
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 4: I I am in no way willing to make a

973
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 4: comparison with Josh Dobbs and Kurt Warner at this point.

974
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 4: I'll leave that to Paul. But having gone through all

975
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 4: this old tape and I remember this stuff, but going

976
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 4: through the old archives of Kurt Warner, Kurt, Kurt had

977
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 4: a few clunkers in there.

978
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: He did he Oh yeah, Kurt.

979
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 4: Kurt was one of those guys with like he could

980
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 4: come in, you're like feeling really good, and then he

981
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 4: turned the ball over five times in one game, and

982
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 4: he's like, what just happened?

983
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 3: So he had ten fumbles in the first three and

984
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: a half games of two thousand and six when he

985
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: got he first got replaced with.

986
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 4: Them all, let's make that clear. But yes, he fumbled

987
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 4: the ball ten times, and.

988
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: Obviously their difference was he had two MVPs at that

989
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: point in a Super Bowl ring.

990
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 4: And so my point with Dobbs is this, though, like

991
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 4: what if we're going to expect him to be perfect

992
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 4: after that first game and like it's only going to

993
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 4: go up. That's that's not realistic and it's not fair.

994
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 4: He does not It's not like he's got the greatest

995
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: show on turf offense around him. Now you lose James Connor,

996
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 4: it's going to be difficult, and it would be difficult

997
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 4: if Kyler Murray was out there, which I know everybody's

998
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 4: wondering about and I don't. Right now, we still don't

999
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 4: have any answers.

1000
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: No idea, that timeline, no idea. I'm still sticking to

1001
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: my prediction that I've been going with ever since April

1002
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: around Easter time. I've just said Halloween, give or take

1003
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 3: a week, and that's strictly a guess. That's all I've

1004
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 3: gone with. I'm not deviating from that.

1005
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 4: We're approaching Halloween.

1006
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: We are not sure I'm feeling about it, but I

1007
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 3: am sticking to it. That's fair at this point.

1008
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 4: At least you're willing to put yourself out there. That's

1009
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 4: what they're eight different picks to click in training kit.

1010
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 3: It's you know, and we can qualify you know. I'm

1011
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 3: not saying necessarily he's going to start around Halloween. Maybe

1012
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: that's just when he gets activated off the list. So

1013
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 3: I'm giving myself some leeway in some room to work

1014
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: in there, like true journalist does.

1015
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: Stuff like spooky season. I gotta say, Paul, from what

1016
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: I've heard from rumors around the building. Oh no, So

1017
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,959
Speaker 2: Wednesdays are the day that that's when Josh Dobbs talks

1018
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: to the media at the podium. I am not in

1019
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: there because that's when I typically do my sideline exchange

1020
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: interview out on the field, and practice is ending. So

1021
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 2: I asked around because last Cardinals on the Ground, which

1022
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: we recorded on Tuesday, you said the time had come

1023
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: that you were going to ask Josh Dobbs if you

1024
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: believed in aliens a UFOs, and I asked around, and

1025
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 2: apparently you did not ask two reasons.

1026
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 3: One, I got roped into doing interviews in the locker room,

1027
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 3: so I was not able to be in two places

1028
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 3: two places at one time. But but I did also

1029
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 3: make the mistake, and it is a mistake of expecting

1030
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 3: to beat the Bengals and then have you know, the

1031
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 3: mood be really good after a win. Hence maybe more

1032
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: appropriate for an off the wall Question's fair, You're never

1033
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: guaranteed to win. And what's even worse is he went

1034
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: on a podcast with Cam Hayward, his former teammate in Pittsburgh,

1035
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: and I believe Cam Hayward just asked him the same question.

1036
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 2: Hayward is seen the Cardinals underground, He's still your question.

1037
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: It was like late last week Cam Hayward posted his

1038
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 3: own podcast.

1039
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: Should we insert that sound right here?

1040
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: I didn't hear the answer. I just saw a quick

1041
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: breakdown rundown of what was covered with Josh Dobbs, and

1042
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 3: I said, no, get on that, Cody, not my alien's question.

1043
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: Please know. So I might throw it out there this

1044
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 3: week just because I better, because the clock really is

1045
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 3: ticking at this point, even though it might be inappropriate

1046
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 3: in the face of the box. It is a it

1047
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: is a vaccine.

1048
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 4: Since not only lost, but Josh Dobbs coming off his

1049
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 4: worst game in a month.

1050
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, you're right. So you know, tread Lightley,

1051
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: it's the whole risk reward. What am I doing on

1052
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: fourth and one? Here? What am I doing? What am

1053
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: I doing backed up against my own goal line? Do

1054
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 3: I dare throw it or not? So you know, it's

1055
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: there's always that's fair, the process of contemplating if it's

1056
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 3: worth it or not. So we'll see, we'll see exactly.

1057
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 3: You know, he's a veteran and he shakes off these games. Right,

1058
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: he's already moved on, you know, he's moved on to

1059
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 3: the U. L. A. Rams. So here we go. That'll

1060
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 3: uh that is the next stop, right, the Rams, and uh,

1061
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: we'll see how that goes. Sean McVay. I'm not even

1062
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 3: gonna mention the record, Sean McVay is against the against

1063
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 3: the Cardinals. That has to stop, that has to stop.

1064
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 3: We'll see if it stops on Sunday as someone please

1065
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: stop me from talking on this edition of Cardinals Underground

1066
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: brought you by Pacific Office Automation