1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast, and welcome 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: to another bonus episode of the Psychology of Your Twenties. 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: This is a special mini series we're running within the 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: podcast where we break down psychology concepts, theories and figures 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: which have become vastly popular beyond the psychology space, especially online, 10 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: and we essentially give you the real facts and we 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: mythbust some of the bogus information and ideas we have 12 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: about these things or which are kind of promoted in 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: online spaces. We've done dopamine, We've done Maslow's hierarchy of needs. 14 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: We have mythbusted the legend that our frontal lobe develops 15 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: at twenty five. We've done personality tests. But today we 16 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: have the big kahuna of all episodes when it comes 17 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: to psychology law. We are going to talk about none 18 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: other than the infamous, the notorious, the famous, the well 19 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: known Sigmund Freud. The figure that I think has come 20 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: to define modern psychology more than any other figure, maybe 21 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: more than any other concept, and has also prompted a 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: lot of misconceptions about psychology and the field of therapy 23 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: in general. I'm not going to waste any time because 24 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: we have a lot to talk about. This man, the man, 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, got up to so many things 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 1: during his life, and his legacy is almost as big 27 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: as what he actually did. And I'm just going to 28 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: tell you this episode takes turns that you will never believe. 29 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: Cocaine is mentioned, Feminism, weird sexual beliefs he had. There 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: is a lot to discuss, so let's get into it. 31 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: So let's start with the basics. Who was Sigmund Freud. 32 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: If you had never heard of him before, what would 33 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: you need to know? So Sigmund Freud is, as I 34 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: alluded to, just like the grandfather of modern psychology. He 35 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: created an entire new perspective on the human mind, human emotions, 36 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: human souls, and it's called psychoanalysis. More on that later. 37 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: Before he became the creator of psychoanalysis and the famous 38 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: name and figure of today. He was born in eighteen 39 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: fifty six in what was then the Austrian Empire. At 40 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: the time, Austria was very much the center of psychological 41 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: thought and research. It was where so many major figures 42 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: were teaching learning. Being born, his family later moved to Vienna. 43 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: That's where he spent most of his life and his career. 44 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: I was literally in Vienna last week and I didn't 45 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: go to the Freud Museum, and I knew it was there, 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: and I was just kicking myself. I just didn't have time. 47 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: I went cycling and I went on a wine tour instead. 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: So definitely a lot of fun, but yeah, I didn't go. 49 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: And apparently it's amazing, and apparently it's literally his offices 50 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: with his original couch, with his original carpeting, furnishing. If 51 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: you look up a photo of Freud's office, it's very distinct. 52 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: But just a reason to go back to Vienna, I guess. 53 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: But he lived there. He lived in Austria. He lived 54 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: in Vienna with his family, with his daughter up until 55 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: his death. More on her later. But he didn't start 56 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: out doing psychology as we know it today. He didn't 57 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: start out thinking the things that he went on to think. Obviously, 58 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: he actually trained as a doctor and he began his 59 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: professional life in neurology. He was medically trained. He was 60 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: very interested in the nervous system in the brain. He 61 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: wanted to help people with things like epilepsy, with forgetfulness, 62 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: coordination issues. But he became very interested in patients who 63 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: they had physical symptoms, but they didn't have a physical explanation. 64 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: So they had things like paralysis, like pain, feinting, distress, compulsion, 65 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: speech difficulties, all these other things, and physicians of the 66 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: time couldn't account for them medically. They couldn't account for 67 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: them really, they didn't think about them as emotional either, 68 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: and so at the time he was working in specifically 69 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: in neurology. But back then psychiatry, neurology, psychology, they weren't 70 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: really divided up in the way they are today. It 71 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: was just kind of one big pot of things to 72 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 1: do with the body and the brain and the mind. 73 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: And many of the symptoms that they were observing, which 74 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: were physical but also emotional in nature, they just got 75 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: grouped together and they were given a specific diagnosis of 76 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: hysteria or hysteria, depending on how you pronounce it. This 77 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: is a term that we would not use today, right, 78 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: We wouldn't say that somebody has hysteria. It's very loaded 79 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: with gendered assumptions about women's bodies, women's emotions, credibility. In fact, 80 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: about eighty percent of the people who were diagnosed with 81 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: hysteria were women, and even the symptoms, the way that 82 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: it was described was gendered, so it included things like 83 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: wanting to have too much sex as a woman, but 84 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: equally not wanting to have any sex at all, relationship 85 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: to satisfaction, sadness in the home, but then also enthusiasm, 86 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: being too passionate. That was another criteria. So not the 87 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: nioicest or the most accurate or the most helpful of 88 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: diagnosis that you could get at the time. But Freud 89 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: saw this and he wanted to understand this label and 90 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: the suffering beneath it in a way that was just 91 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: a bit more articulate and structured and organized and went 92 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: deeper than that current level for his time. The way 93 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: he went about this was really scientific. I think that's 94 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: a very crucial part. You know, when we look at 95 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: his work and some of the things that he does, 96 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a second, we often look 97 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: at it through the lens of the time period that 98 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: we are in now. Where we're kind of like, that's 99 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: probably not okay, that's probably not scientific, But we need 100 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: to understand where he was at. You know, he was 101 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: operating before there was any kind of brain imagery, before 102 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: there was any kind of you know, modern trauma science. 103 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: It was pre randomized control groups, pre developmental psychology, pre 104 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: ethics bodies, and it was born out of the context 105 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: of Victorian era assumptions about sex, gender, class, family respect rules. 106 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: Were talking here about somebody who was very radical for 107 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: his period of time. He was also deeply limited by it. 108 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: But the thing is is that we couldn't have gotten 109 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: to where we were without him. Like he really pushed 110 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: the needle, He really tried things. He really attempted to 111 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: construct what we now call a method or a hypothesis 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: or a sample size or an intervention. So what was 113 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: he actually doing? What was what was he actually trying out? 114 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: That was so quote unquote radical, So early on he 115 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: was influenced by this one case, and this was really 116 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: what kind of pushed him into doing more scientific things. 117 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: It was the case of Bertha Pappenheim. She's also known 118 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: as Anna Oh, so that was her pseudonym that he 119 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: wrote about her as Anna oh, and she was experiencing 120 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: like really distressing symptoms. She was experiencing paralysis, hallucinations, visual disturbances, confusion, 121 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: and at the time she was also looking after her 122 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: die father. Freud was very close to this case. He 123 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: was a medical student at the time. He was watching it. 124 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: He wrote so much about it because it suggested that 125 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: physical seeing symptoms might be connected to emotional experiences, and 126 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: he kind of put that forward. He goes, you know, 127 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to find a parasite, We're trying to find 128 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: something that's wrong with her brain. We're trying to explain 129 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: this through all these different avenues. Did anybody just think 130 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: to ask her about how she's coping with her dad? 131 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: Did anybody just think to go into her childhood and 132 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: her early memories with her father and how they might 133 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: be making this particularly distressing? And this really shaped what 134 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: became psychoanalysis, the talking cure. Essentially, what Freud said was 135 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: that human pain is like kind of like a parasite 136 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: in the body that needs to be extracted. Talking through 137 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: emotionally charged memories, revealing a emotionally charged moments, being honest 138 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: about your feelings and about your past, you know, digging 139 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: below the surface of human desire and human thought. That 140 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: is what allows that extraction, that is what helps ease 141 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: physical symptoms. I also want to say side note, Anna Oh, 142 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: back to her. She yes in Freud's work was written 143 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: under a pseudonym. But Bertha, the woman who was Anna Oh, 144 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: she actually went on to become a very famous writer. 145 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: She was a very very well known social worker. She 146 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: was a very well known feminist. She was a major 147 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: figure in German Jewish women's welfare and did a lot 148 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: of activism. So a little bit of a side note 149 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: for the history of this. She was also pretty incredible. 150 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: So then Freud moved on. He went to Paris and 151 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: he studied under a very famous neurologist called Jean Martin Charcotte. 152 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: I always butcher the French. I'm sorry if you're French. 153 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: Oh you speak French. I know that sounds That's probably 154 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: not how it's said, but look it up John Martin 155 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: Jacott in Paris, and this is when he started learning 156 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: about things like hypnosis and interrogation and suggestion to help 157 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: patients access memories or feelings that were buried very deep 158 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: in the unconscious mind. Over time, though, he kind of 159 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: moved away from that. This was his first kind of 160 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: step towards modern practices. He moved away from hypnosis in 161 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: particular because he realized, you know, it just didn't work 162 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: for everybody. It also wasn't entirely accurate, and he wanted 163 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: something that felt a little bit less stressful, and so 164 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: he developed a now very famous method called free association. 165 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: This is a very important term, one of the terms 166 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: most associated with Freud. Free association. It was a method 167 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: where he essentially found ways to get patients to say 168 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: whatever came to mind, whatever memories they were thinking, even 169 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: if it was embarrassing, irrelevant, repetitive, strange. He wanted it 170 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: to just come out. He just wanted them to just 171 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: spill their guts. Basically, he also did dream analysis, so 172 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: he really felt that our memories and our pain and 173 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: our trauma and what was bothering us was revealed through 174 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: dreams because that was when the subconscious mind is most relaxed. 175 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 1: But at its simplest form, all of these methods of 176 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: psychoanalysis and psychoanalysis was this theory that underneath our conscious thoughts, 177 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: our conscious patterns, our conscious behaviors are these wishes and 178 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: these fears and these conflicts and these memories and defenses 179 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: that we don't fully recognize that are seeping through. And 180 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: once you discover those influences, once you tear apart those conditions, 181 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: I guess that is when you can help somebody with 182 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: their conscious problems, with their everyday issues. Today, like the 183 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: idea that talking about your feelings might help you, or 184 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: thinking about your past might help you, or thinking about 185 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: your unconscious motivations might help you as pretty obvious, but 186 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: back then it wasn't, and Freud helped move western mental 187 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: health care towards this idea that again physical or behavioral 188 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: symptoms have a psychological emotional meaning, and if you were 189 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: to listen carefully to somebody's inner world, you could help them. 190 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: And that's where that's where what he did was very 191 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: very powerful. Should also be said he did some other 192 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: things he tried in order to access the unconscious mind 193 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: or the pre conscious mind. He experimented with a lot 194 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: of ways of doing this. Cocaine was the other one. 195 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: He Freud in the early days of his career loved cocaine. 196 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: He loved using it, he loved prescribing it, he loved 197 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: giving it away. He thought it not only lowered inhibitions, 198 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: so allowing for greater free association. But he also called 199 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: it the miracle drug for depression and other mood disorders, 200 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: and he wrote this massive, massive paper called uber drug 201 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: because of course he spoke German about it, and it 202 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: was like it like went the equivalent of like viral, 203 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: like back in the day. A lot of people were 204 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: reading this. And then he went back on that later 205 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: in his life he was like, I think cocaine is awful. 206 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: I would not prescribe it. I do not use it. 207 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: The reason why he accidentally, well accidentally. I don't think 208 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: he intended this to happen, which is why it was 209 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: an accident, but he did. He got one of his 210 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: best friends addicted to cocaine, like seriously dependent, and he 211 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: saw this man suffering with addiction, and he saw him 212 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: like his life just like be derailed, and he was like, okay, 213 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: so maybe that's not the solution. Let's talk about some 214 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: of his other famous ideas and other famous things associated 215 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: with Freud, one of them being him and his couch. 216 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: I think it is the typical image of Freud to 217 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: have him in a chair, his patient laying on their 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: back on a couch, reciting their dreams being asked about 219 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: them mother and their father whilst he takes notes being 220 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: shown in blots and asking them, you know, what do 221 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: you see here? Is that accurate? Yeah, there is actually 222 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: a big grain of truth to this idea. Freud did 223 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: use a couch as apparently in the museum that I 224 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: didn't see, but apparently the couch is there. He did 225 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: ask patients to speak freely. He did interpret dreams slips 226 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: of the tongue and as Freudian slips childhood memories. But 227 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't as freestyle as we think, so he wasn't 228 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: just like come in and just chat about it. He 229 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: had a very strict set of questions. He had certain criteria, 230 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: he had theories, he had structures. He also had this 231 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: method of sitting out like directly out of the line 232 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: of sight of the patient because he helped well. He 233 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: believed it helped them speak more freely. He believed it 234 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: was important to not feel like there was somebody analyzing you, 235 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: even if that is what was happening. He kept very, 236 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: very diligent case notes. And the other part about Freud's 237 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: method was that he was really aware of the role 238 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: of something called transference. This is the idea that feelings 239 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: from early relationships parents, siblings, even early romantic relationships can 240 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: be replayed in the therapy relationship. So, for example, a 241 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: patient might experience a therapist as rejecting or critical, or 242 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: companting or maybe authoritative, not because of what the therapist 243 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: is doing in the room, not because they are rejecting 244 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: them or judging them, not because they are critical, but 245 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: because of old relational patterns that are being activated or 246 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: reactivated through the interaction. A therapist can feel like a 247 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: parent or a teacher at times, which is not what 248 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: we want them to feel like. And Freud was very 249 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: aware of that. This was one of his biggest contributions 250 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: that I don't think many people talk about, in which 251 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't get much credit for. He recognized that therapy 252 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: is not just confined to a discussion about the patient's 253 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: life outside of the therapy room. What is happening in 254 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: the therapy room, how they see the therapist, the relationship 255 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: between the person trying to help in the person needing help, 256 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: and all the baggage that they come in with as 257 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: individuals becomes a huge part of that work and becomes 258 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: a huge part of whether somebody's therapy or treatment is successful. 259 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: So that's how he went about treatment. Beyond that, what 260 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: were his actual core theories? Something interesting that is still 261 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: very common for psychologists these days to do less. So 262 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: then it was very common was that they would practice 263 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: and they would help people, and then they would also 264 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: research and they would contribute ideas. So they'd spend kind 265 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: of fifty to fifty of the time seeing clients, seeing patients, 266 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: having that exposure to real people, and then and the 267 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: other amount of the time hypothesizing writing articles. They weren't 268 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: doing experiments on the grand scale that we would now 269 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: expect in psychology. They were just kind of theorizing based 270 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: on what they saw. This is what Freud's core theories are. Firstly, 271 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: we have briefly mentioned the idea of conscious pre conscious 272 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: and the unconscious mind, and how psychoanalysis is really concerned 273 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: with the unconscious mind and what's going on in that 274 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: kind of labyrinth. This is often explained and you would 275 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: have seen it using the Iceberg metaphor. So if you've 276 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: ever seen when you were in high school or in UNI, 277 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: or just literally your workplace or like therapist's office, an 278 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: Iceberg that says, you know, the conscious mind is the 279 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: top and then all that's below is the pre conscious unconscious. 280 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: That was Freud's idea, and he again believed that there 281 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,239 Speaker 1: was this large amount of what influenced our behavior and 282 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: our attitudes and our personality and who we were that 283 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: we could not touch or even feel or or kind 284 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 1: of see. Now, there are certain aspects of this that 285 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: aren't accepted in modern psychology, but the broader idea that 286 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: mental processes happen outside of our conscious awareness is pretty 287 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: widely accepted. Cognitive psychology, social psychology, and neuroscience, trauma therapy, 288 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: like all those things, they all recognize this as an 289 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: important thing and something that does occur. Tix to Freud, 290 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: he was the one who kind of started that. Another 291 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: major contribution is Freud's structural model of the mind. He 292 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: believed that the mind wasn't just made up of conscious, 293 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: pre conscious, unconscious or subconscious. It was made up of 294 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: the id, the ego, and the super ego. We have 295 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: spoken about this at length on the podcast before, but essentially, 296 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: the term ego, the way that we use the word ego, 297 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: is not as Freud initially thought of it, As you know, 298 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: it has been misunderstood him. Well, we'll start with the 299 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: ID first, So the ID the ego of the super ego. 300 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: The ID is the instinctual, impulsive part of your mind. 301 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: It is the part of you that wants immediate satisfaction. 302 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: It's associated with pleasure, aggression, hunger, sexuality, desire. It doesn't 303 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: care about consequences, it doesn't care about what is socially acceptable. 304 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: It just wants, It craves. The superego is the opposite. 305 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: It represents internalized rules, morality, guilt, ideals, expectations. It's the 306 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: part of you that it's critical, that is overly cautious, 307 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: and the ego sits between them. Ego doesn't mean arrogance 308 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: for him. Ego meant self awareness, balancing. It meant the 309 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: brain's ability in the part of our brain that negotiates 310 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: between desire and morality, reality and consequences. So if the 311 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: ID wants something immediately and the super ego shames you 312 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: for wanting to them, the ego is the part that's 313 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: trying to manage the conflict in a way that allows 314 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: us the person, to function. And I think that captures 315 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: something very recognizable in us as humans. We often experience 316 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: a conflict between what we want, what we think we 317 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: should want and what reality allows for or what is 318 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: deemed acceptable. Another key contribution beyond the ear, the sub ego, 319 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: the ego, and the unculture prin Oh my god, so 320 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: many unconscious preconscious subconscious. He had a lot of terms, 321 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: is his idea of psycho sexual development. Now, this is 322 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: one of Freud's most famous and most controversial ideas, and 323 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: you have definitely heard of it before. Definitely. There are 324 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: too many pop culture references to count at this stage. 325 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: Freud proposed that this is the part you may not 326 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: have heard of, I will say. Freud proposed that children 327 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: move through different stages of development. There is the oral, 328 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: the anal, the phallic, latency and denital stages graphic, but 329 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: he believed that unresolved conflicts at each of these stages 330 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: shapes our personalities as adults. For example, he argued that 331 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: if a child experienced frustration or over indulgence during the 332 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: oral stage, which centers on feeding and sucking, they might 333 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: become overly dependent on habits like smoking or overeating or 334 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: nail biting later in life because that is how they 335 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: learned to suit themselves during the anal stage, which focuses 336 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: on toilet training, so it's not all sexual intimate. Overly 337 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: strict parenting in the anal stage might produce somebody who 338 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: is very orderly, who is a perfectionist, very controlling, and 339 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: lacks parenting during the stage means that somebody becomes messy 340 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: or impulsive. And he believed that these kind of unresolved tensions, 341 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: which he called fixations, would leave a lasting imprint on 342 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: how people think, how people behave, how they relate to 343 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: others as adults. This is also where the famous Oedipus 344 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: complex comes in in Freud's theory. During the phallic stage, 345 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: a young child, it gets a bit weird from here, 346 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: just a heads up. A young child, he believed, develops 347 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: unconscious feelings of desire for the opposite sex parent, and 348 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: therefore a sense of rivalry with the same sex parent 349 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: to win the opposite sex parents attention. Now he focused 350 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: specifically on boys. He argued that boys unconsciously desire their 351 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: mother and see their fathers as rivals and fear punishment 352 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: from him. He also believed that this process was important 353 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: for the development of the super ego. Then that essentially 354 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: resolving this is what allows us to understand what is 355 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: right and that incest is not okay. There's also the 356 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: female version of this, which is the elektra complex. I 357 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: think it goes without saying it's not entirely accurate, if 358 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: not accurate at all, it's very heteronormative. He Freud was 359 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: known to make a lot of things unnecessarily about sex, 360 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: including child development, which is obviously a little bit odd, 361 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: not a little bit, it's quite odd that he was 362 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: very fixated on this, But yeah, he made a lot 363 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: of things about sex that didn't need to be about sex, 364 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: like parental conflict or you know, growing up, or being 365 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: a teenager or being a messy person. You know, has 366 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: nothing to do with sex and all these things, but 367 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: he really made it so. And this is an example 368 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: of that. The last famous theory of his we're going 369 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: to talk about today is the idea of defense mechanisms. 370 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: Let's have a palette, cleanse up from talking about oralphallic, anal, 371 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and talk about something else. Defense mechanisms 372 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: were in part his He started this idea. They were 373 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: further developed by his daughter. Defense mechanisms. If you know 374 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,479 Speaker 1: this term, you've probably heard it before. They are ways 375 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: that the mind protects itself from anxiety, conflict, shame, or 376 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: emotional pain by using methods of denial, projection, rationalization, repression, 377 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: and displacement to kind of shield us, to kind of 378 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: put a buffer or a barrier between us and the 379 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: raw feeling. Essentially, it's just the ways that each of 380 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: us tries to deal with discomfort in a unique way 381 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: to ourselves and our history. A simple explanation is that 382 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: maybe you feel hurt, but instead of admitting that someone 383 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: has hurt you, you become rude and dismissive towards somebody 384 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: else in order to regain a sense of power. That's displacement. 385 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes someone who has been repeatedly romantically rejected will claim 386 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: that they hate relationships. They just don't see the point. 387 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: You know, love is lame, Monogamy is un natural. You know, 388 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: people who are in relationships are cringe. This is another 389 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: defense mechanism. It's called reaction formation, where somebody responds with 390 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: the radical opposite of what they are really feeling and 391 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: what they really want in order to conceal their true desires. 392 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: Another example, you fail a job interview. You fail a 393 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: job interview, you really wanted it, and then you find 394 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: all the reasons to believe that the job would have 395 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: sucked anyways, instead of just feeling unhappy about it, you 396 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: start convincing yourself. You know, I would have been miserable. 397 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: I didn't like that guy who interviewed me. You know, 398 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: I actually didn't really want that job. That's rationalization, creating 399 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: a more acceptable explanation to protect yourself from disappointment, rejection, 400 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: or vulnerability. Defense mechanisms are not automatically bad, and they 401 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: can really protect us from the emotional intensity of certain scenarios. 402 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: The problem with defense mechanisms comes from when they become 403 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: rigid and they stop us from seeing reality. Clearly. This 404 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: is when they become maladaptive. Maladaptive being something that is 405 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, unhelpful for your functioning 406 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: and your survival. Now, like I said, Freud had this 407 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: initial idea, but it was his daughter Anna Freud who 408 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: developed this more systematically and who gave words to what 409 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: he was trying to describe. Anna is a really important 410 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: part of this episode because she became a very well 411 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: known psychoanalyst in her own right. She is especially associated 412 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: with child psychoanalysis, with ego psychology, with ways of human 413 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: coping with child development, and this still shapes how clinicians 414 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: think about psychology to this day. Now, her relationship with 415 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: her father was really complicated by modern standards. She was 416 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: insanely devoted to him, She worshiped him, She worked very 417 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: closely with him, She cared for him during his illness. 418 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: She also underwent an analysis with him. He formed some 419 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: of his ideas based on his relationship with his daughter. Now, 420 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: this is the guy who created the Oedipus and the electrocomplex, 421 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: so you can see why that's a little bit weird 422 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: that his daughter was also not just a patient but 423 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: a case study for him. He provided her with yeah, 424 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: with treatment and interventions, and took notes on her own behavior. 425 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: That's pretty unethical today. Actually, it was probably very unethical 426 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: back then, and it was. When you think about Freud's work, 427 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: a lot of what he talked about may have come 428 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: from his relationship with his own daughter, which is a 429 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: little bit weird. But Anna did like went on and 430 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: was very very successful, and she built really incredible institutions. 431 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: She worked with children affected by war. She helped basically 432 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: establish childhood trauma, or the treatment of children with trauma 433 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: and PTSD as its own kind of clinical thing. She 434 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: was very interested in children, She was very interested in 435 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: their emotional lives. So her relationship with her father, aside 436 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: the influence that she's had is positive and is remarkable 437 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: and is an important part of this discussion of like 438 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: Freud's legacy. Obviously, she acted of her own accord, she 439 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: is her own person, but there is a legacy to 440 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: this that I think does continue to be quite positive. 441 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: And Anna's work going on from her father's is a 442 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: big contribution. Okay, let's take a short break here and 443 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: when we return, let's talk a little bit more about 444 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: his legacy and what psychologists think of him these days. 445 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: So stay with us. So Freud's influence is enormous, but 446 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: so are the problems with his work. Now, his theories 447 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 1: weren't evidence based in the way that we would want today. 448 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: You know, he didn't use random says, he didn't do 449 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: control trials, he didn't do an intervention in no intervention condition. 450 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: He developed many of his ideas through, as we said, 451 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: case studies, in clinic observations, theoretical reasoning. This doesn't automatically 452 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: mean that his theories are worthless. They're not, because we 453 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: still use a lot of the ideas today. But it 454 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: does mean that they weren't tested using the kinds of 455 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: methods that we would expect. Now, his theories were also 456 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: because of this, and in addition to this, very difficult 457 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: to falsify. This basically means that they were hard to 458 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: prove wrong. Now this sounds like a really good thing, 459 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: but in the field of psychology, falsifiability is one of 460 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: the most central principles that separate science from pseudoscience. Basically, 461 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: you have to present a hypothesis or an idea that 462 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: if there was proof to the contrary is in, you 463 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: could find it and you could make an argument for it. 464 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: This is to ensure that you know, research isn't just 465 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: being created based on a closed belief system. I'm going 466 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: to explain this a little bit better. Let's give the 467 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: example of the Oedipus complex. If somebody doesn't seem to 468 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: have an oedipisk complex, that might be seen as proof 469 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: that the Oedipists complex doesn't exist, because here are all 470 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: these people who aren't romantically attracted to their own fathers. 471 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: But Freud's theories would say that is not true. They do. 472 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: It's just that their desire is buried even deeper than 473 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: expected in their in their own conscious It's that they 474 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: just don't admit it. It's not that the idea is false, 475 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: it's that this person is just concealing that desire. So 476 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: you can see how a lot of his ideas of 477 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: the unconscious make it very easy to dis prove what 478 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: he's saying, because he can always just say, well, their 479 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: coping mechanisms are shielding them from accessing this. Their memory 480 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: or their feelings are repressed more than you can imagine, 481 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: and nothing that I can do can get them up, 482 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: but those feelings are definitely still there. The other thing is, 483 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, if a patient agreed with Freud's interpretation of 484 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: their problems, that's evidence that his interpretations are correct. But 485 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: if a patient rejected his ideas. If a patient said, hey, 486 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: I actually don't think that I have an issue with 487 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: my parents. I actually don't think I had an issue 488 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: in childhood. I really had a happy childhood. Like I 489 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: really disagree with you, he would say, well, that's because 490 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: you have resistance. That's because of our therapeutic relationship. It's 491 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: because you don't trust me. My theory is correct. Your 492 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: memories are the ones that are incorrect. Your resistance to 493 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: therapy is what's making you not believe. So as a 494 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: result of this, a lot of people have suggested that 495 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: psychoanalysis is a bit of a pseudoscience. That's part of 496 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: a much broader debate. But it's important to say a 497 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: lot of people don't agree with psychoanalysis. They don't think 498 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: that every single problem has this weird, unconscious origin. Sometimes 499 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the explanation is just a little bit more clear. That's 500 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: for another time. I'm not going to touch that anymore, 501 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: because I know people have opinions. Another thing to note 502 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: about how applicable his theories are. Freud developed most of 503 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: his theories, as I said, from a small group of patients, 504 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: But these patients weren't an accurate sample of people living 505 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,959 Speaker 1: across the world. They weren't even an accurate sample of 506 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: people living in Europe or in Vienna. The majority of 507 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: his patients were middle class women of high income, the 508 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: majority across his entire career. So that makes our ability 509 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: to generalize what he was saying difficulty. His theories probably 510 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: don't reflect every single individual in the world. They don't 511 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: reflect different cultures, they don't reflect how different societies operate. 512 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: They reflect the world around him. When he was writing, 513 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: which was very patriarchal, which was Victorian European, deeply classed 514 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: and deeply shaped by restrictive ideas about sexuality, gender and race, 515 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: even religion. You know, his ideas about women in particular, 516 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: You know, they haven't aged very well. One in particular 517 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: is another theory that I didn't mention before but is important, 518 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: which is seduction theory. Early in his career, Freud argued 519 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: that some of his patients symptoms, especially what was then 520 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: called hysteria, could be traced back to childhood sexual abuse 521 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: or unwanted sexual experiences. He was like, these women are 522 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: crazy because at some stage in their past somebody did 523 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: something to them that they didn't want to happen. Now, 524 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: that is an incredibly layered statement. That is, there is 525 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that is wrong, made some stuff 526 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: that is you know, most of it's wrong. Actually saying that, oh, 527 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: this woman is hysterical because of trauma a kind of 528 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: belittles the trauma and makes it seem like, well, she's 529 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: disturbing everybody else and that's the problem, rather than what's 530 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: happened to her. B doesn't necessarily help them with that trauma. 531 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: It just gives them a label without exploring how to 532 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: move past what they've experienced. The biggest issue, see, was 533 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: that a lot of these women were like, that didn't 534 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: happen to me, Like that, you're trying to dismiss me 535 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: by saying this thing happened to me, and I'm saying 536 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: that it didn't, and so you can't just dismiss me 537 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: and say, oh, well, she's a victim of this and 538 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: that's why she's behaving that way when I'm telling you 539 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And he'd be like, well, it's just 540 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: because you don't remember it. And that is a really 541 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: really messed up situation to put somebody in. And he 542 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: I don't really have words to describe, like how I'm 543 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: sure you understand the layers of inaccuracy and the layers 544 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: of complexity and the layers of just ridiculousness that is 545 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: associated with that in many ways. You know, it's interesting 546 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: because you see where he's getting at. And I hate 547 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: to even say that, but he was like, you know, 548 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: emotional trauma creates physical reactions, but the and creates real 549 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: pain later in life, and I'm seeing that in certain 550 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: patients and hopefully we can get them some help with that. 551 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,439 Speaker 1: But he he wasn't He didn't have that delicate gentleness 552 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: towards it that you should have. And again he also 553 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: tried to falsify people's memories and say, you know, this 554 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: is what's happening. He later actually kind of moved away 555 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: from that. He had all these other ideas about like, oh, 556 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: women who have sexual desire, it's because of again, because 557 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: somebody has sexually assaulted them, and all these weird feelings, 558 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: and I don't think Freud came close to recognizing like 559 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: the impact that that had and the impact that comes 560 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: from talking about that and comes from just kind of 561 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: experimenting with ideas and theories around that with real people 562 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: like that is deeply harmful. It's very complex. The main 563 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: issue I think with a lot of his theories, and 564 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: it keeps coming back to this, is that they were 565 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: incredibly speculative. They were also incredibly high stakes. They speculate 566 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: over very serious, very impactful issues with people's lives. Sometimes 567 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: he gets it right, but sometimes he doesn't, and getting 568 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: it wrong was very very harmful. And it's important that 569 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: when we hear Freud's theories today, especially some of his 570 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: theories around sex and around false memories, and around the 571 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: pre conscious and the unconscious and around all these things, 572 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: we take it at face value and understand, you know, 573 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: how much we've developed psychology and how much we've developed 574 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: our understanding of the mind and trauma from where he 575 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: was acting in the late eighteen hundreds, early kind of 576 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, So beyond his theories, what was he actually 577 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: like as a person? Freud was famously very ambitious, very ambitious. 578 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: He was very stubborn, He was very bold, and he 579 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: was apparently very aware of his own importance. He inspired 580 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: a lot of deep loyalty in some people, accultish following, 581 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: and strong opposition in others. His professional relationships in Particula 582 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: were very dramatic, like very gossip girl esque, very very dramatic, 583 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: partly because psychoanalysts and psychoanalysis as a field became a 584 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 1: movement during that time. It was like a cult. He also, 585 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: as the founder of that movement, was very protective. He 586 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: guarded membership very very closely, and he did not respond 587 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: well when others disagreed, Which is funny because he wrote 588 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: all about how the way we behave as representative of 589 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: our it and our ego and our super ego and 590 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: our impulses and our desires, and yet he really couldn't 591 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: get his under control. For example, he had some very public, 592 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: pretty major disagreements with people like Carl Jung and Alfred Adler, 593 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: who we mentioned all the time on the podcast. Adler 594 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: who was very famous at the time and still is 595 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: for his ideas of the inferiority complex birth order theory. 596 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: If you've ever heard about the eldest daughter syndrome, Alfred 597 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: Adler is who you have to thank for that one. 598 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: He talked a lot about personality psychology as well. They 599 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: had a massive falling out, and I love the drama 600 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: of this. I love the drama that these two like 601 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: psychological figures were like gossiping about each other and writing 602 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: hit pieces and like little snarks in their papers. And 603 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 1: he broke away from Freud. He was a psychoanalyst, partly 604 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: because he thought Freud placed too much emphasis on sexuality 605 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: and unconscious desire. He was a lot more Adler was 606 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: a lot more interested in striving and social belonging and 607 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: positive psychology and helping people overcome things and overcome insecurity. 608 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: You know, where Freud really wanted to look backwards and 609 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: to uncover hidden childhood conflicts. Adler was like, I'm focused 610 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: on the future. I'm interested in goals. I'm interested in 611 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,879 Speaker 1: social context. I'm interested in meaning and how people find 612 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: their place in the world. Even after he died, Alfred Adler, 613 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: even after he died, Freud made really awful public comments 614 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: about him. So here's this guy who's like the grandfather 615 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: of psychology, and psychology is meant to help people, and 616 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: he was messy. He he got into some trouble. He 617 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: also had a big fight with with Youjung. He had 618 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: a big fight. He fought with with everybody. Again, a 619 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,439 Speaker 1: lot of the time, the criticism was like, you make 620 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: things too sexual, dude, Like you're you make things weird. 621 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 1: A lot of these men were like, we you're not 622 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: actually that focused on helping people. You just want to 623 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: dig into the into their past, and each professional split, 624 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: each argument fragmented psychoanalysts into into like different disciplines and 625 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: into different versions of what it meant. Freud was also 626 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: very influenced by his own experiences, as we all are. 627 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people like to think 628 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: of him as this impartial genius who was making states 629 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: about the human condition that were universal. But he experienced 630 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of social and political upheaval during his time. 631 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: You know, the decline of the Austrian Hungarian Empire. He 632 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: lived through the First World War, through economic instability, rising 633 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: anti Semitism in Europe, and this really shaped the intellectual 634 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: climate in which he worked in and his real emphasis 635 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: on aggression and desire and conflict and irrationality and the like. 636 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: The animalistic nature of the human soul was probably because 637 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: he was witnessing a lot of violence and a lot 638 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,240 Speaker 1: of destruction. And he was Jewish as well. He was Jewish, 639 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: he was living in Europe during a period of growing 640 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: anti Semitism. He was acutely aware of the impact of 641 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: prejudice and exclusion and political instability. The Nazis literally burnt 642 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: his books like they he was like on their hit list, 643 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: and so it's important to see him as part of 644 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: that as well, and to not try and that he 645 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: was this human. He was human. He was just one 646 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 1: guy who had a lot of ideas that were really 647 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: informed by his own experiences and his own hurts and 648 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: his own trauma. And he wasn't the god that I 649 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: think a lot of people think he was. He was very, 650 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 1: very complex, and so I think that's where I stand 651 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: personally with his legacy. He pushed psychology forward, there is 652 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: no doubt like anytime you go into a therapist's office, 653 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: something they do, some part of their practice, something they 654 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: have learned was because of Freud and because of how 655 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: he saw the therapeutic relationship between client and therapist. He 656 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: also really expanded how we think about trauma. I know, 657 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: I said he did so controversy, but really a lot 658 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: of people weren't talking about it until he did. Even 659 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: if he spoke about it in a way that wasn't 660 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: particularly delicate, again, it was of the time, and he 661 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: really encouraged the exploration about hidden emotional lives. He really 662 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: was like he really wanted he was get curious. He 663 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: wanted people to be curious about people's emotions, and he 664 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: really wanted to get to know people as complex individuals, 665 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: which was very different from how psychology operated. So we're 666 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 1: going to give him big, big ticks for that. He 667 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: was also very flawed. He had a lot of blind spots, 668 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: many blind spots, and that is the duality of Freud. 669 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: And it's funny that the very thing he was trying 670 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: to point to for his entire career, which is like 671 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: humans are these complex things. There's a battle between good 672 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: and evil. There's a battle between unconscious and conscious, between 673 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: id and super ego, between reality at your current moment 674 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: and your part Like can you see where I'm getting? Like? 675 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: He represented that as a person in probably one of 676 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: the greatest ways. So it's almost a little bit poetic, 677 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: isn't it. It's almost a little bit poetic who he 678 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: was as a person that he was. He represented his 679 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: work so deeply that he was his own attitude, in 680 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: his own way of operating, in his personality was like 681 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: the caricature of the theories and the ideas that he 682 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: was exploring. Oh my god, guys, that would be such 683 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: an interesting essay, right, I don't know. Am I going 684 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: off on a tangent here? Yeah? I am, Okay, back 685 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: to the thing. I just think that'd be so interesting. 686 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: Freud's personal life as a manifestation as a representation of 687 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: his work would be such an interesting PhD topic. God, 688 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: I wish I could do that. If you want to 689 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: use that, go ahead, please do and send me the 690 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: paper when you're done in like three years with that. 691 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: But that is all we have on Freud. I know, 692 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: I said a bonus shorter episode. I'm like have been 693 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: speaking for like an hour. So thank you if you 694 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: have made it this far, I hope you have learnt 695 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: something about this mystical man. I hope you enjoyed this episode. 696 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: Oh I'll also say he has a great great granddaughter. 697 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: Freud's great great granddaughter has a podcast. Yeah, and it's 698 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: called Fashion Neurosis and she literally had like Charlie XCX on. 699 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: So another interesting part of his legacy. His daughter is 700 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: a podcaster. No, not his daughter, his great great granddaughter 701 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,320 Speaker 1: is a podcaster. So there you go. Maybe we should 702 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: have her on. Maybe I'll reach out to her actually 703 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: and just be like I. She probably doesn't want to 704 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: talk about her great great great great great great grandfather. 705 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: But very interesting tidbit. Thank you to our researcher Libby 706 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: for helping us with this episode. Also, everybody say congrats. 707 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: I know I was just speaking about PhDs, but Libby 708 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: just finished up three months in Australia doing PhD research 709 00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,879 Speaker 1: and she's coming to the tail end and we're very 710 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: very proud of her and she is a hidden force 711 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 1: behind this podcast. So everybody say congratulations to Libby in 712 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: the comments below. If you learn something new about Freud, 713 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: also leave that if you're listening on Spotify in a 714 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: comment below. Make sure that you are following us on 715 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: Instagram at that Psychology podcast. You can also watch episodes, 716 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: not this one though, because this is a bonus episode, 717 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: but all our other episodes on Netflix, and you can 718 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: follow us on substack for our Study of the Week group. 719 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,760 Speaker 1: It is a series where I break down one academic 720 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,919 Speaker 1: article into a five minute read for you once a week. 721 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,959 Speaker 1: But God, until next time. This has been a big 722 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: episode and I really enjoyed it. We will talk very 723 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: very soon. Thank you for listening. Be safe, be kind, 724 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: be gentle to yourself. Yeah. Talk later.