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Speaker 1: Cool Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're twice a week reminder that Margaret still doesn't know

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Speaker 1: how to introduce her show. I am your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 1: and this is a rerun episode, and we are rerunning

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Speaker 1: Lakota Resistance to the American Empire because people have some

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Speaker 1: incorrect ideas about what this country was built on and

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Speaker 1: is still doing. And we need to remember that even

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Speaker 1: as this country gets into a new version of worse

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Speaker 1: and we have to fight against the new version of worse,

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Speaker 1: we can't romanticize the past of this country, and instead

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Speaker 1: we have to romanticize people who rebel and resist things

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Speaker 1: like it. So here's the rerun. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: Cool People, Did Cool Stuff, your weekly reminder that people

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Speaker 1: can do good things as well as bad things. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I do the bad thing good good things because bad

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Speaker 1: things have happened. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy and with

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Speaker 1: me as my guest is Miriam.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Miriam.

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Speaker 1: Miriam is one of our favorite guests.

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Speaker 2: We don't have favorites, but you're my favorite podcast to

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Speaker 2: come on.

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Speaker 1: Oh and your favorite podcast to come On is produced

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Speaker 1: by none other than Sophie Lichterman.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's me Hi.

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Speaker 1: And it is audio engineered by Ian Hi Ian Hian.

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Speaker 2: We remember to do it this time. It's important to

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Speaker 2: say hi to Ian. We almost forgot last time, and

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Speaker 2: then last episode had so much genocide in it.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman,

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Speaker 1: and you can now find the theme song in full

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Speaker 1: to only about a minute and a half long, on

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Speaker 1: on women's band camp.

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Speaker 2: So good, I know.

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Speaker 1: I was like, and people are like every now and

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Speaker 1: then people ask like, what's the deal with the theme music?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I wanted something that sounded really

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Speaker 1: funny when contrasted to the shit I'm gonna be talking about.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you a true story about Unwoman that

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Speaker 2: makes me super happy?

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: A while ago, I was I was working in a

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Speaker 2: museum that incorporated a lot of like historical building, and

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Speaker 2: some ghost hunters came to like film a TV show

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Speaker 2: or something, and they were like skulking around the historical

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Speaker 2: building hunting ghosts. It was a it was a whole thing.

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Speaker 2: But I was musing on like my social media about

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Speaker 2: how fun it would be to prank them, and this

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Speaker 2: ended up with Unwoman recording a ghostly like a ghostly

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Speaker 2: old timey version of Rick Astley's Never Going to Give

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Speaker 2: You Up, with the idea being that I would conceal

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Speaker 2: a small speaker somewhere to like draw the ghost hunters

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Speaker 2: to this like eerie music that when they got very

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Speaker 2: close they wit realize was Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give

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Speaker 2: You Up, which I did not end up doing because

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Speaker 2: I think that ghost hunters were like out of the

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Speaker 2: building by the time this idea had been hatched and

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Speaker 2: this recording had been made. But Unwoman is a fucking delight. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the first times I saw I I have

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Speaker 1: not on a woman for a while, but during the

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Speaker 1: Oakland General Strike of twenty eleven, there was un Woman

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Speaker 1: with a cello performing for the people like locked to

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Speaker 1: a bank. It was so good.

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Speaker 2: Got the fucking best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is part two of our four part

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Speaker 1: on Lakota resistance to the American Empire. And this first

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Speaker 1: week we're talking mostly about the nineteenth century. Next week

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the twentieth century. Mostly. There's a

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Speaker 1: whole there's so many centuries that happened in the past.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that there's many twenty of them?

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Speaker 2: Century takes about a week in my experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. God, i'd be so far into the

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Speaker 1: past anyway. Sometimes I think about, like how i haven't

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Speaker 1: even been doing the show for two years, but I'm like,

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Speaker 1: it's so much stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really, like you've covered a lot. Yeah, and you're

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Speaker 2: not going to run out.

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Speaker 1: No, that's the other thing. I'm not worried.

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Speaker 2: But what if you talk about all the cool people

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Speaker 2: who have ever happened, We'll just have to make some more. Well.

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Speaker 1: It's like even like like one of the reasons you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been I've been intending to do this episode for

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Speaker 1: a long time because I specifically want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the American Indian Movement because I've done so many things

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Speaker 1: about radical late sixties early seventies social movements in the

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Speaker 1: United States, and I'm like, I've gone through so many

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Speaker 1: and there's still so many more in the American Indian Movement.

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Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to like really take my time

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Speaker 1: and like dig into.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I don't think I've heard you

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Speaker 2: touch on it in any of your other episodes, not.

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Speaker 1: As much so, But that's not what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: this week, where we're talking about that was a teaser. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about how the Black Hills is about

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Speaker 1: to be invaded by Custer and some other motherfuckers because

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Speaker 1: there's gold in it, and what a treatyse matter when

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Speaker 1: there's gold and people. I love how people talk about

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Speaker 1: this like that's like a human condition, you know. But

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Speaker 1: like all of the indigenous voices at the time are like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck is wrong with these people? Do they

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Speaker 1: not know what an agreement is? We had an agreement?

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Speaker 1: Does that is that like a Do they just not

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Speaker 1: know what that word means? Like it's their word, it's

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Speaker 1: in English.

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Speaker 2: Right, this this whole treaty signing thing was something like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not that people were like wildly perfect and peaceful

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Speaker 1: and whatever, you know, strange romanticization. People want to make

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Speaker 1: it right.

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Speaker 2: We're not like you don't need to like make this

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Speaker 2: into an imaginary utopia to be like, it's pretty fucked

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Speaker 2: up to sign a treaty and then six years later

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Speaker 2: to be like, oh, we've just new information has come

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Speaker 2: to light which makes our promises trash.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally turns out we were white.

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Speaker 2: Therefore we were white people.

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Speaker 1: The whole toxes are actually trash. It's really on you

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Speaker 1: for not recognizing that. Oh god. Uh So there are

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Speaker 1: two kinds of officers in the US Army at this time.

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Speaker 1: There's guys like Custer who are just rotten to their

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Speaker 1: fucking core, right, and then there are these like high

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Speaker 1: minded noble guys who have complicated feelings about it all

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Speaker 1: and want to be gentlemanly, improper and polite and even

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Speaker 1: want to respect the treaties. But orders are orders. The

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Speaker 1: guy in charge of this campaign, General George Crook, he's

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Speaker 1: in the latter camp. This is not better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was gonna say, if the end result is massacres,

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Speaker 2: I don't really care how bad the person doing it

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Speaker 2: feels about it.

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Speaker 1: Doing what you know to be wrong, is it better

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Speaker 1: than doing wrong because you think it's right.

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Speaker 2: It might be wor parguably worse. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, look there's scales of that, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we all participate in capitalism and we know it's bad,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so I think everyone knowing that it's

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Speaker 1: bad is a good step, right, But when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the kinds of crimes that this man is going

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Speaker 1: to directly oversee, like now, fuck him. So he gave

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Speaker 1: this famous answer. He was asked Basically, he's like, is

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Speaker 1: it hard for you to gear up to go to

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Speaker 1: another Indian war? And his quote is, yes, it is hard,

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Speaker 1: but sir, the hardest thing is to go and fight

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Speaker 1: those whom you know are in the right.

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Speaker 2: Oh if only there were an alternative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the military. That's that's lawful neutral right there.

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Speaker 1: You know, which is the same as lawful evil. Because

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Speaker 1: lawful evil.

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Speaker 2: You, I believe you have an essay called lawful Ain't Good,

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Speaker 2: which I quote at at times in gaming circles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my theory is that there's only eight eight alignments

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Speaker 1: because lawful good is a contradiction. It makes me really popular.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you can tell we had cool childhoods.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. We didn't meet at a steampunk convention.

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Speaker 2: We didn't. We met in the parking lot of a

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Speaker 2: steampunk convention.

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Speaker 1: That's right where Miriam was dressed up as steampunk im

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Speaker 1: a goldman giving a pretty good labor speech. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Uh did you know that I got in trouble with

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Speaker 2: the operator of that steampunk convention because I got people

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Speaker 2: riled up about the fact that he was holding conventions

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Speaker 2: at non union hotels.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, hell yeah, good, which is a say no

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Speaker 1: matter what culture or subculture you're in, you can do

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Speaker 1: fun things with it.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you can function up anywhere. People won't stop you.

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Speaker 2: That's not true. People will try to stop you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you can function up anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, crime is legal. You can just do

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Speaker 1: anything you want.

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Speaker 2: Sort of all right, So neither of us are lawyers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, but we are your lawyer anyway. In

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Speaker 1: the Black Hills, all sorts of bands and tribes and

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Speaker 1: folks are gathering forces to unite against this invasion that

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Speaker 1: they know is coming. White historians call it the largest

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Speaker 1: gathering of Native American people in history up to that point.

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Speaker 1: Indigenous scholars are like, no, we've had bigger.

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Speaker 2: You just weren't around people were gathering. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sitting Bowl had a vision of blue jacketed soldiers falling

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Speaker 1: from the sky into his camp. Sometimes I see it

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Speaker 1: phrased as like like grasshoppers, and so he's like, this

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Speaker 1: is coming. So the indigenous rebels they attack.

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Speaker 2: Which the light grasshoppers. That's like a image of like

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Speaker 2: and of like a devastation, right, because these those like

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Speaker 2: grasshoppers swamps that would fall out of the sky would

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Speaker 2: like eat everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Leave bare ground in their wake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is pretty fucking accurate. What happens. So the

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Speaker 1: indigenous rebels attack the invaders, and there are several successful battles.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The one that's in the history books is called the

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Speaker 1: Battle of Greasy Grass, only it's not under in history books.

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Speaker 1: Under that name, there's a river that the Lakota called

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Speaker 1: Greasy Grass, the Americans call Little Big Horn. This is

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Speaker 1: the battle on Yeah, this is the single greatest victory

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Speaker 1: in the Indian Wars for the good guy side. Urman

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Speaker 1: Custer is in charge of the seventh Cavalry and he

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Speaker 1: sees this huge indigenous village and he's like, fuck yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's go kidnap everyone there. Let's just like like fuck

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Speaker 1: it up. You know, we'll like we're like going to

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Speaker 1: kidnap everyone and then we'll take all the non combat

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Speaker 1: and hostages and force their warriors to surrender. And also

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Speaker 1: he's a mass rapist and I'll talk about that more later,

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Speaker 1: and this would have been a massacre. He's like, let's

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Speaker 1: go massacre this village basically, and the rest of the

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Speaker 1: army was like, hey, Custer, you should like wait for

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Speaker 1: everyone else. And Custer's like whatever, man, I got this shit.

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Speaker 1: Fuck you dad. You know.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, I mean not awesome what he wanted to do,

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Speaker 2: but like awesome that he didn't wait for backup.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. It's the same fucking thing that Fetterman

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Speaker 1: did a fun like, yeah, he had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: orders like don't leave the group and don't whatever you do,

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Speaker 1: don't go over this hill. And he's just like, put

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Speaker 1: their butts I can see there.

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Speaker 2: Buts I mean, and I mean Fetterman even more so,

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Speaker 2: was like I only need like eighty guys, like, don't

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Speaker 2: even send me more guys. And the American Army in

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Speaker 2: this case is like, customer, you're literally sending you more guys.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, but I want to do murder now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's getting dark. I don't know what time

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Speaker 1: of day it was. He had crow scouts with him,

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Speaker 1: and the crow were on the US side during most

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Speaker 1: of this because two generations prior to the Lakota kicked

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Speaker 1: them out of where they were living, so they're kind

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Speaker 1: of mad, you know. And one of his crow scouts

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Speaker 1: is a guy named half yellow Face who was like, yo,

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Speaker 1: Custer as a bad call. You shouldn't do that. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: he said you and I are going home today by

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Speaker 1: a road we do not know.

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Speaker 2: And that is a very very cool way to try

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Speaker 2: to advise your shitty boss not to do this shitty thing.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna die if we do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that was the problem. Maybe he was a

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Speaker 2: little too a little too flowery in his language. I know,

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Speaker 2: it was the nineteenth century, you know, but maybe Cosler

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Speaker 2: wasn't quite literate enough for that metaphor and he needed

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Speaker 2: a like, yeah, you're gonna die real hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would not have listened, he was no, he

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Speaker 1: absolute would not have listened. And so they just wildly

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Speaker 1: underestimated the numbers and the prowess of indigenous warriors, and

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Speaker 1: the seventh Cavalry was wiped out. Custer had his last stand,

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Speaker 1: and he did what he should have done way earlier,

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Speaker 1: which is die.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No one knows exactly how his day went. There's lots

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Speaker 1: of stories around it, but no one knows exactly because

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Speaker 1: all of his buddies also.

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Speaker 2: Died, right because he The thing about getting all your

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Speaker 2: buddies killed is there's no one left on your side

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Speaker 2: to tell you the story of how cool you looked

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Speaker 2: when you died, And it's yeah, and everyone's just going

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Speaker 2: to be like, yeah, probably pissed his pants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that guy he got shot in the chest. He

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Speaker 1: also had a bullet and his skull. That was probably

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Speaker 1: after he died. That was probably a like, let's just

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Speaker 1: fucking make this is Custer. We should work at me.

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Speaker 2: You want to make sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so died the man that Vine Deloria Junior called

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Speaker 1: the Eichmen of the Plains because he was following a

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Speaker 1: policy of genocide from his higher ups. General Sherman wrote, quote,

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Speaker 1: we must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even

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Speaker 1: to their extermination men, women, and children. During an assault.

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Speaker 1: The soldiers cannot pause to distinguish between male and female,

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Speaker 1: or even to discriminate against age.

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Speaker 2: Sounds about right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Custer was also a serial rapist of indigenous women,

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Speaker 1: by all accounts, including the accounts of his own men.

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Speaker 1: They didn't phrase it that way, but they described it,

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Speaker 1: so it makes it extra nice that the Cheyenne account

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Speaker 1: of the battle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was one thing, you promised me three wounds.

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Speaker 2: I've heard about two. I would like to hear about

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Speaker 2: the other way Custer died. Please.

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Speaker 1: Cheyenne account of the battle says that it was a

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Speaker 1: woman named Buffalo caff Road woman who knocked him off

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Speaker 1: his horse before he died.

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Speaker 3: Fu.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she absolutely was present in the battle. You know,

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Speaker 1: she fought as alongside her. Her husband Black Coyote, fought

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Speaker 1: alongside her in that battle. Also, they brought war journalists

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Speaker 1: with them while they were like let's go massacre these people,

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Speaker 1: like like like an associated Press guy was just with them, just.

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Speaker 2: Like to to let everyone know how how well this

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Speaker 2: was going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he died too.

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Speaker 2: I a thing that I heard and this is something

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Speaker 2: I like learned very recently. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: if you also learned this in your research, was that

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Speaker 2: the women present at the Battle of Little Big Horn

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Speaker 2: stab custers through like once he had been killed, stabbed him,

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Speaker 2: I think, like through the ear drums with their needles,

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Speaker 2: saying like like you will like basically next time you'll

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Speaker 2: listen good something like that, or you like you will listen,

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Speaker 2: you'll like you will hear us. Basically I could be

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Speaker 2: totally butchering that story.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean good, And like you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of accounts of the battle, but I have no

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Speaker 1: reason to no particular reason to doubt the Shian versions

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Speaker 1: or other versions of it, like and there's like all

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Speaker 1: these things that people tried to be like he died nobly,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't. He just wrote off to go get murdered,

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Speaker 1: and he got him murdered.

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Speaker 2: Just losing real hard sometimes gets romanticized as dying nobly,

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Speaker 2: like you know, have like that like that poem where

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Speaker 2: the guys on horses ride against tanks in the Crimean

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Speaker 2: War whatever, and it's like it's not necessarily heroic to

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Speaker 2: lose real heart, Like sometimes you're just sometimes you're just

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Speaker 2: custom and you just suck and you die real hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, die like he lived shitty. Another guy who fought

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Speaker 1: in that battle is a man named Black who's most

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Speaker 1: famous these days for his book Black Elk Speaks, which

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Speaker 1: was hugely influential on me when I was like a

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Speaker 1: baby anarchist, and he's gonna he's sort of a background

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Speaker 1: guy through a lot of this, no good deed goes unpunished,

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Speaker 1: and the reprisals from the destruction of a serial rapist

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Speaker 1: genocider continue to this day. America has not gotten over

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Speaker 1: the fact that some lady fucking killed a rapist who

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Speaker 1: didn't consider her human.

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Speaker 2: A rapist who didn't consider her human who nobody on

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Speaker 2: the American side particularly liked anyway. Yeah, Like everybody was like, man,

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Speaker 2: that guy's a real piece of shit, and then some

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Speaker 2: Indigenous people kill him and were like, hey, that was

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Speaker 2: our piece of shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Basically, so the US more or less declares

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Speaker 1: the eighteen sixty eight treaty, which they've already broken the

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Speaker 1: shit out of, invalid, and they were like, but we

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Speaker 1: want to do it sort of paperworky. So they demand

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Speaker 1: that the reservation give up the Black Hills and a

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Speaker 1: ton of other land, all with like right of way

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Speaker 1: through everything for roads and shit. Anyone who doesn't agree

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Speaker 1: can fucking starve. Red Cloud was forced to sign, as

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Speaker 1: were the other chiefs who weren't at war, and twenty

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Speaker 1: two point eight million acres were seated, which is a

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Speaker 1: third of the total, but the best third of this

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Speaker 1: particular reservation, and the remaining folks are forced to live

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Speaker 1: in like clearcut areas and places that have already been

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Speaker 1: resource extracted. There's absolutely no way that this could be legal.

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Speaker 1: Three quarters of the men could not have signed this

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Speaker 1: agreement because they didn't show up because they were at.

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Speaker 2: War, right because they were actively fighting to defend that land.

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Speaker 1: Right, and the signatures that do appear were coerced at gunpoint.

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Speaker 1: But law is only a cudgel in the hands of

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Speaker 1: the powerful and has never been anything but that. Sitting

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Speaker 1: Bowl and some other war chiefs and their warriors retreated

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Speaker 1: north into Canada, while Crazy Horse, Heat Dog, Little big Man,

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Speaker 1: Iron Crow and a few of the other war chiefs.

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Speaker 1: In the end, they decided surrender. Basically, they were like, like,

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Speaker 1: I suspect it wasn't like I'm a die if I

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Speaker 1: don't surrender. It was like all my people are going

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Speaker 1: to die.

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Speaker 2: The people that I'm responsible for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they were promised that they could

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Speaker 1: live like on good hunting reservations and shit if they

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Speaker 1: would just surrender.

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Speaker 2: And we've definitely got reason to trust those promises at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 1: As soon as they show up to surrender in Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: the US pretended like they had never made the offer.

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Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, and I can understand, like why

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Speaker 2: you would, I mean, that's like that was the only

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Speaker 2: thing on the table, right.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, because again it wasn't just for them, it

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Speaker 1: was for the people that they're responsible for. And Crazy

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Speaker 1: Horse spent four months living in like sort of captivity

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Speaker 1: on a reservation and then he was arrested. He tried

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Speaker 1: to resist, and he was stabbed to death with bayonet.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of versions of how he died. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a specific really reason to believe any of them.

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Speaker 1: Is a lot of arguing about it, So I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna go with he tried to resist and he was

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Speaker 1: stabbed at death bayonnuts.

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Speaker 2: I mean, even whatever, whatever the particular account of his

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Speaker 2: death is, he tried to resist and was murdered by

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Speaker 2: the US Army seems to sum it up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Spotted Tail one of the war leaders who'd signed

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Speaker 1: away the Black Hills. He's living large. He has a

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Speaker 1: three story house, and he starts demanding well, he's been

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Speaker 1: demanding tribut because it's chief, but he starts demanding tribute

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Speaker 1: that of his subordinates. That is like, as far as

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Speaker 1: I can tell, new and not part of tradition. He

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Speaker 1: starts demanding women, sometimes including I believe married women, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not certain. But so his cousin crow Dog, was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna fucking kill you, and then

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Speaker 1: killed him. Okay, Yeah, that is one of the three

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Speaker 1: motives that has been presented for crow Dogs. Killing of

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Speaker 1: Spotted Tail. Another is an argument over like a specific

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Speaker 1: one of the women who has taken a tribute, which

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Speaker 1: might have been Crowdog's family. Another is that crow Dog

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Speaker 1: was like doing the US's dirty work to break up

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Speaker 1: the power of the chiefs by killing Spotted Tail. I

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Speaker 1: find the first argument most convincing, and the historians that

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Speaker 1: I've read, who, Yeah, I find it most convincing that

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Speaker 1: it was like you have fucking you're a cellar piece

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Speaker 1: of shit. You gotta fucking go.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't. I mean one one of the one of

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Speaker 2: the many terrible things about state repression is that it

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Speaker 2: turns any internal conflict into like somebody doing the dirty

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Speaker 2: work of the state, right, like totally and like which

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's that what you made a convincing

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Speaker 2: case that this that crow Doog had a legitimate grievance

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Speaker 2: and reason to.

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Speaker 1: Kill this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and without the US government being ye behind that?

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what the US government also is

404
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: behind isn't behind our ads? Some of them government no

405
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Speaker 1: government not only make it better?

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Speaker 3: Are the ones that we personally approve.

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Speaker 1: Ye, Well, did you know that we're an ad supported podcast?

408
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: Unless you have cooler zone media, in which case you

409
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Speaker 1: just get to hear us talk about ads all the

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Speaker 1: time and hopefully it's entertaining for you. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I would do if we didn't have ads, because

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Speaker 1: I like doing my weird transitions.

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Speaker 2: You're so good at it now, Yeah, you can just

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Speaker 2: do the weird transitions and then not play any ads.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's also kind of what we're doing sitting here,

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Speaker 2: since it's it's not your job to actually put the

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Speaker 2: ads in there.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever feel tempted to do that in conversation

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Speaker 2: if there's an awkward pause? Because if you, if you do,

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Speaker 2: you've been podcasting too much and you should take a break.

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Speaker 1: Know what I do is I do transitions while I'm

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Speaker 1: like in meetings, I'm like speaking of and then like.

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Speaker 3: Robert Evans, Robert Evans does this in real life. Oh,

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Speaker 3: it's social, especially under the influence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, If Robert Evans is getting sponsored while just

427
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Speaker 2: hanging out under the influence, more power to him.

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Speaker 1: I know, if people want to, I'll shout out fucking

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Speaker 1: ship in the middle of a conversation.

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Speaker 2: I'll just I'll product place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, Gray, here's some ads and we're back, and

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Speaker 1: so there's this whole big thing. There's a hole to

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Speaker 1: do about this murder, because I mean, it is a murder.

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Speaker 1: Whatever whether or not it's justified, it's not really going punished.

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Speaker 1: And so the federal government is like, what, why can't

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Speaker 1: we punish it? And they're like, because it's indigenous sovereignty.

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Speaker 2: And there's none of your fucking business.

438
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: So then the federal government is like, what if it

439
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: becomes our business by when we passed the Major Crimes Act. No,

440
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: And so this gives them jurisdiction over like fifteen specific

441
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: major crimes that happen on reservations and it's just all

442
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: part of stripping away. And so this is the like

443
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: it does kind of like fuck spotted tail, but like whatever,

444
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: the government was going to do bad shit no matter what.

445
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: So right, and the government having a federal jurisdiction over

446
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: major crimes on Indian land will surely they will care

447
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 2: about all of those major crimes and there will not

448
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 2: later be an epidemic of missing and murdered Indigenous women

449
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: that the federal government doesn't give a shit about.

450
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: Hooray, sorry, no, no, I just that's something I'll shout

451
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: out earnestly. There's a ways to there's like groups that

452
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: you can follow that talk about the missing and murdered

453
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: Indigenous women, and it is a yeah, the bad stuff continues.

454
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, spoiler alert, none of this goes none of this

455
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: ends in the United States being great.

456
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: Well, that's because we're not done yet. Well in the

457
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: United States, get a little done Margaret. No, no, no, But

458
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: the space that the US currently occupies, I still have

459
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: a lot of hope for Oh yeah, no, me too.

460
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: The blackails are stolen at this point gold mines open.

461
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: The eighteen eighty Congressional record reads, I'm talking about this quote.

462
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: An idle and thriftless race of savages cannot be permitted

463
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: to stand guard at the treasure vaults of the nation,

464
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: which hold our gold and silver. The prospector and minor

465
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: may enter, and, by enriching himself, enrich the nation and

466
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: bless the world by the results of his toil.

467
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: Oh, shut the fuck up. I know what, bro, You're

468
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: just reading a quote. I'm not talking to you.

469
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I know. But it means that this

470
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: is Protestant work ethic genocide.

471
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: Right, And it's also like I love how it's like

472
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: these people aren't even greedy. Oh that's going to be

473
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: It's like more the criticism that has It's like, you know,

474
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: when you're like so racist that like you take the

475
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: flaws of your own society that like are recognized as flaws, right,

476
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: Like greed is a concept that people like have in

477
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: the Unite in like white among white people in the

478
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: United States, So like, don't be greedy. That's a bad thing.

479
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 2: And then they're like, man, fuck these people, they're not

480
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: even greedy. We should kill them? About it?

481
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: You in two paragraphs. So this isn't enough. Of course

482
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: stealing you know this, this par doesn't work ethic genocide.

483
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: The government has to wipe out the buffalo too, because

484
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: they don't want anyone to be able to hunt them. Basically,

485
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: they don't want indigenous people to continue to live as

486
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: indigenous people or like in traditional ways.

487
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: You know, when you're so racist, you you wipe out

488
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: an entire environmental biome.

489
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, already scarce. By eighteen eighty three, the last

490
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: herd of the northern bison is wiped out by the government,

491
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: and in eighteen eighty one, the sun dance is forbidden,

492
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: which is a plain's traditional ritual of self sacrifice the

493
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: very important part of a lot of different traditions, and

494
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: the hatred of plains people was also anti communism in

495
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: name decades before the first Red Scare. One senator said

496
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: that it was the indigenous people's communism and holding lands

497
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: in common that was holding them back and said, quote,

498
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: there is no selfishness, which is at the bottom of civilization.

499
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, I okay. First of all, like

500
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 2: I am, I'm like struggling to construct some kind of

501
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: like hipster joke about like, oh, yeah, I was anti

502
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: communist before Karl Marx even wrote the Communist Manifesto. Yeah,

503
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: or I guess Carl Marks had written the Communist Manifesto.

504
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: Well, but they certainly were already doing that thing.

505
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. But there's also Yeah, it's like you're just taking

506
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: things that are normally regarded as flaws and vices and

507
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: you're like, they don't even do selfishness. They're not even greedy,

508
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: like what just like pick anything you would normally say

509
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: to be like insulting about another person. You're like, they

510
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: don't even cheat on their wives like what. Like it's

511
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: just like like you're just saying flaws as like a

512
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: total lack of lack of flaws as reasons. Not that

513
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm saying like anybody is flawless, but you know what

514
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: I mean, Like they're they're pointing out like a shitty

515
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,239
Speaker 2: thing to be like greedy or selfish and being like, well,

516
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: they're not greedy, you're selfish. Guess we better kill them

517
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: and take their shit.

518
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: And to be clear, I agree that selfishness is at

519
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: the bottom of civilization, but that's a distinct my own

520
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: negative feelings about civilization.

521
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: You do live in the woods with your dog.

522
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and again it's definitions of things. And I

523
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: also want to point out that it would be generally

524
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: dangerous to specifically take Western European concepts and apply them

525
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: wholeheartedly to different indigenous groups. It is absolutely true about

526
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: things like being held in common and them not being capitalist.

527
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely it would be a I don't want to apply.

528
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: To totally, Like I'm not trying to like put.

529
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: No none of us, like giving them a hammer and sicks.

530
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: I'm one hundred percent sure that there were, you know,

531
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: people that there have been people in every civilization, every culture,

532
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: every community, every house, like every every group of people

533
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: bigger than one person who is like you've got somebody

534
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: there who's the selfish piece of piece of shit.

535
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: You know, you don't put them in charge of everything,

536
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: and you try not.

537
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: To put them in charge of everything and give them

538
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: a lots of guns and eighty guys. But like, it's

539
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: it's just so fascinating to me that like, in this

540
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: racist conception of indigenous people that like white Americans are

541
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: coming up with, they are saying things that would normally

542
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: be how you would say somebody is cool, Like oh yeah,

543
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: real selfless guy would be normally a thing you'd say

544
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: about a great person.

545
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Not in the Protestant worth ethic land.

546
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, not if they're doing it, and not if they're

547
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: doing it on land that we want, right.

548
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, And while we're talking about communism or while

549
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: it's the.

550
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: Are you gonna work the industrial workers of the world

551
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: into this story?

552
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: Yes, but it wasn't on purpose. But what I'm going

553
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: to say is, right.

554
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: Now, who's got the bingo cards?

555
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: So we're into the eighteen eighties and labor movement in

556
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: the US is starting to pick up and starting to

557
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: kick ass. You want to know what the eighteen eighties

558
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: radicals had to say about indigenous resistance?

559
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: I beg that it was bad.

560
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Nothing. I can't find anything.

561
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: Woh, that's bad.

562
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: Actually that is bad. That's what I'm saying bad Now.

563
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm certain it exists. I have not read every piece

564
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: of eighteen eighties thing I but I talked to my

565
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: like signal chat of history nerds, and I like, the fuck.

566
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: Am I not doing any signal chat of history nerds.

567
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: We'll talk about this later.

568
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: That's the most unkind thing you've ever said to me.

569
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: We'll about this later. And what I do know is

570
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: that in Mexico, we've talked about this before on the show,

571
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: indigenous folks and anarchists are already working together like ten years,

572
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: twenty years before this to resist the state and doing

573
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: all this like amazing shit. In Mexico, you have the

574
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: black indigenous anarchist Lucy Park, who's doing stuff in Chicago,

575
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: but this is not This is not tied into her indigenousity,

576
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: and she is mostly tied into the labor movement of

577
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: European immigrants. A couple decades later, the Industrial Workers of

578
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: the World, Thank You, are founded in part by Lucy Poling.

579
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: I knew it would fight for anti racist unionism with

580
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: all sorts of folks and this will include doing a

581
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: lot of like organizing in the mines in the Southwest

582
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: with a lot of indigenous people and indigenous miners. But

583
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: it is that is decades later. By and large, the

584
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: thing that European radicals were doing in the US was colonizing.

585
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: They were settling. And this was the era of utopian politics,

586
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: the idea that anarchists and socialists and communists and shit

587
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: would find quote empty areas and set up utopian societies.

588
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: A bunch of these happened every now, and the people

589
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: ask her, like, when am I going to cover this

590
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: or that one on the show? And I'm like, never

591
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: been quite sure because I'm kind of like, I think

592
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: they're bad, Like I think that it's cool people doing

593
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: bad things, you know. Yeah, And more or less all

594
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: of these fail. A couple weeks earlier, I should this out.

595
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: At the end of the last episode on it could

596
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: happen here. Mia Wong covered really well how the colonized

597
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: and oppressed so quickly become the colonizers and oppressors. Like

598
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: how Irish Americans, Eh, I told you I'd bring in

599
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: Irish Americans in told Irish Americans were so fucking shitty.

600
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: On colonization and race issues in the United States right

601
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: and continue to be unfortunately, even while the Irish who

602
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: stayed in Ireland are consistently the only large population of

603
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: white people who aren't wildly fucking embarrassing right now.

604
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: It's true.

605
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: And in short, you've got a ton of communities that

606
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: sometimes rule, like the Quakers and the anarchists and shit

607
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: out there grabbing land like everyone else.

608
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

609
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: Once indigenous people got more caught up into the capitalist system,

610
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: they were more involved in the anti racist unions and

611
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: in the modern political climate, there's a great deal of

612
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: overlap between indigenous environmentalists and leftist and anarchist communities. Is

613
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: Land back and decolonization and become more and more central

614
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: to leftist anti authoritarian analysis.

615
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: But it's often just lip service, though I know it's

616
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: something that I see a lot of.

617
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.

618
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not trying to be to be like

619
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: too overly critical, but I see a lot of verbal

620
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: attention paid to the idea of like doing land acknowledgments

621
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: versus you know, material change being pushed for.

622
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm speaking mostly with my experiences in kind of a

623
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: direct action environmental movement which has become more and more

624
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: indigenous lad and more and more like working hard to

625
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: adopt a decolonial framework, and I and just to continue

626
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, No, it's totally out there. That's

627
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: the culture that I'm more steeped in direct action wise.

628
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: But I think you're right.

629
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: No, And if you're talking if we're talking about people

630
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 2: who are actually like doing the direct action, then like, yeah,

631
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: I think that's true. Yeah, not talking about my uh

632
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: my favorite people to organize with. When I talk about

633
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 2: the people who love to do land acknowledgements and don't

634
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: love to do anything of material help.

635
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of complicated conversations about around

636
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: the politics of land acknowledgments. And I'll just point that

637
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: out without weighing in. I just try and kind of

638
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: keep on top of what's happening with it. But it's

639
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: so back to the nineteenth century, too early to insert

640
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: a plug for going to landback dot org and giving

641
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: them some money. No, you're never too ever ever to Yeah.

642
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: If you've ever done a land acknowledgment, go to land

643
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: back dot or some money.

644
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: And it's not inherently bad, it's just like it's complicated.

645
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: No, No, it's a good thing to do land acknowledgments.

646
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: It should be accompanied by action, and in this that's

647
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: an action you can do while you listen to this podcast. Yeah,

648
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: I mean you can do a lot of actions while

649
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: you listen to this podcast.

650
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm not your dad.

651
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you not to you know,

652
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 2: do anything else.

653
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: But you've heard it here first, Miriam, is your dad?

654
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm not your dad, but you know

655
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 2: I can't check. I'm not going to verify that.

656
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I won't do a paternity test for

657
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: everyone in the country, like I keep trying to get

658
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: you to do.

659
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 2: Not until we're on live TV.

660
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: All right, fine, all right. In eighteen eighty seven, Congress

661
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: passed the DAWs Act, designed to destroy indigenous methods of

662
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: land allocation by giving every male one hundred and sixty acres,

663
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: with all the surplus going to the government to be

664
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: distributed among white settlers. The surplus is most of the land.

665
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: The Lakota refused the allotment Act successfully until I think

666
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: about nineteen sixteen to World War One. By eighteen eighty nine,

667
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: the government is like, can we please have no.

668
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: Well, hang a note a note about those allotments that

669
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: I think is really important. The acreage given to people

670
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 2: is not always or even I think usually contiguous. Oh shit, really,

671
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: so like when you have one hundred and sixty acres,

672
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 2: it could be like you have ten acres over here

673
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: and like four over there, and like it's very far away,

674
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 2: and like you can't work with that, right, it's not

675
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: practical or even really possible to like use that land

676
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: if it's spread out like that, And so that makes

677
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: it easy for that land to be gradually sold off

678
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: to white people, because that's really the one of the

679
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: only ways to like survive off of it in a

680
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: lot of contexts.

681
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: No, that makes sense, and yeah, there's a lot of it.

682
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: This weird thing where like, oh, we're going to force

683
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: you all to be farmers, but you also can't be farmers.

684
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: We actually just wanted to starve to death.

685
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: We're going to force you to be farmers on shitty,

686
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: non arable land that is non contiguous. Yeah, not where

687
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: you live.

688
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. By eighteen eighty nine, the government was like, can

689
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: we please have nine million of your remaining acres? And

690
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: Red Cloud and Sitting Bowl are like, what each shit

691
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: fuck you?

692
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: But since you asked so nicely.

693
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, to quote sitting bowl directly, who said a little

694
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: bit more eloquently than the words I just put in

695
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: his mouth. When the white people invaded our Black Hills country,

696
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: our treaty agreements were still in force, but the Great Father,

697
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: the President of the United States, ignored it. Therefore, I

698
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: do not wish to consider any proposition to seed any

699
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: portion of our tribal holdings to the Great Father. My

700
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: friends and relatives. Let us stand as one family as

701
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: we did before the white people let us astray, and

702
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: so the land didn't sell. So the US was like,

703
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: uh fine, Yeah.

704
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 2: They were like, okay, we respect, we respect your No.

705
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 2: If there's one thing we know how to do here

706
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: in the United States, it's take no for an answer.

707
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they just took it instead. Once again, they

708
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: ignored the eighteen sixty eight treaty and President Harrison divide

709
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: up the reservation into seven smaller reservations with like with

710
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: lots of land that's no longer in it at all.

711
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: The Oglalla people were forced onto the Pine Ridge Reservation,

712
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: which is going to be central to the more of

713
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: the story next week, and everyone is forced to abandon

714
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: their language in old ways and send their kids to

715
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: boarding schools and it's just more fucking genocide. Fewer and

716
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure most people listening no, but like boarding schools

717
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: in this context is like oh yeah, yeah, child sized

718
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: concentration camps. Yeah. And it's specifically this is the this

719
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: is the era of what it's always been the are

720
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: This is the era of kill the Indian to save

721
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: the man. This is the era of like, we will

722
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: strip away your culture, we will send you, will make

723
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: sure you never learn your language.

724
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: What what organization better to trust your children with? The

725
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: Catholic Church?

726
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Fewer and fewer folks are able to remain traditionalists

727
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: aka still doing shit the way that they've always done it.

728
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: It's also this division of their land. It's about American

729
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: fucking politics. I like, the Republicans were losing control over

730
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: the government and they were like, well, what if we

731
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: made some new states, like a couple of Dakota's like

732
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: named after the people were getting rid of, like we

733
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: could hold on the power for a little bit longer.

734
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: And over I hadn't even you know that, I know.

735
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: I like this one came out of left field when

736
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: I when I learned this because I'm like, over all

737
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: the Republicans in the nineteenth century are like usually the

738
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: the better side, right, Like they're on like better has.

739
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: Anyone who's ever argued with an idiot Republican knows, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

740
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: But they were also the party of big business and

741
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: monopolies and like anti populist, and they were the most

742
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: aggressive against indigenous people because you can't win with an

743
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: American political party.

744
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah they're bad American political parties. They're yeah yeah. Any

745
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: any that are good kind of fizzle out around the

746
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: attempting to get somebody elected to local office.

747
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, point. But you know what is good unreservedly

748
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: and wholeheartedly, I can say products. Yeah, the concept of stuff,

749
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: love a product. The accumulation of stuff pretty.

750
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: Never steered us wrong before.

751
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: I see no reason why it would. Now here you

752
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: go and we're back. So things are looking real bad

753
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: for folks out west. The new reservations aren't big enough

754
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: to support a nomatic hunting lifestyle. The land is really

755
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: shit for crops. The government isn't giving them nearly as

756
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: much food and food and tools as they promised. They're

757
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: just trying to kill them, all right, They're just trying

758
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: to fucking and people are really fucking down and out

759
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: when a great shaman stepped onto the scene out West

760
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: further West with a new religious practice designed to unite

761
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: the indigenous people, stopping their intertribal and inter nation war,

762
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: designed to usher in a golden era of peace and

763
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: reunite people with their dead loved ones. The Ghost Dance

764
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: and the Ghost Dance is complicated and interesting. It is

765
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: almost certainly a product of syncretism, the fusing of Christian

766
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: especially Catholic beliefs with local practices. The thing that comes

767
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: up constantly on the show probably deserves a Bingos Square

768
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: right next to the industrial workers of the world. It's,

769
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: at the same time entirely indigenous. It does not tie

770
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: into the larger church ructure from Europe at all, and

771
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: it is developed out of traditional practices, but it takes

772
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: theological concepts from Christianity. There's this Northern Paiute guy named

773
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: Wovoka or Jack Wilson when he's dealing with white people,

774
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: and he was schooled in Christian theology as a kid,

775
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: but he is at his heart a traditionalist. He's also

776
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: renowned for his supernatural powers. Specifically, he can control the

777
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: weather during a solar eclipse. He has a vision and

778
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: as a vision of the resurrection of the dead and

779
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: the departure of white people from North America. All folks

780
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: had to do was live right peacefully, by and large,

781
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: and perform a new dance, the Ghost Dance. There's more

782
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: to it than that. About like, in the sort of

783
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: theological framework that is built out of this, half the

784
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: country would belong to indigenous folks under Wovoka, the other

785
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: half would belong to white people under the president out

786
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: yeast Jesus is mentioned. But like all religious stuff, sounds

787
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: silly when you take out of context. And I believe

788
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: very strongly in judging religions not on their stated set

789
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: of beliefs, but rather what their institutions do and what

790
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: their practitioners do. And the Ghost Dance was a traditionalist

791
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: revival that united various tribes and nations in the hope

792
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: of reversing colonization. So fuck you.

793
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

794
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: It spread across the country, and it helped unify groups

795
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: of groups of people and helped people cope with just

796
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: the incredible amount of trauma that they've been living through.

797
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: And it came to the Lakota people and a lot

798
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: of them were into it, especially traditionalists. This was not

799
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: like universal there are people who are like some traditionalists

800
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: are like, now we're not into this, you know, like

801
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: because it is well, it syncratic and it has like

802
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: all of these other.

803
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: Did you already say what what group the originator of

804
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: this was? You did? See?

805
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, roughly was now northern California. I believe the US

806
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: freaks the fuck out over Ghost Dance. This is like

807
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: Satanic panic times a million. Yeah, and the thing that

808
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: they're freaked out by is a almost completely pacifist, heavily

809
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: Christian influenced movement. You think that the US government would

810
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is what we want, but they

811
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: hated it because it threatened to reverse genocide and cultural erasure,

812
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: because it was traditionalist and it united all the indigenous people.

813
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: You know.

814
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: Also, and there's like some stuff that people talk about

815
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: how like people say that wearing the ghost shirt from

816
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: the dance makes you immune to bullets, and so like

817
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: that belief or the like gets to the white people

818
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, fuck, they're gonna attack us, you know.

819
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: And there's some talk about this leading to armed resistance

820
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: against the Americans, but most of that talk is coming

821
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: from the aforementioned Americans. Oh that's interesting, Yeah, it is

822
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: a resistance movement, but it is a peaceful resistance movement,

823
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: and it is about let's live, right, you know. Thousands

824
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: of troops are mobilized and sent to like the Lakota specifically, just.

825
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, cartoonishly evil the United States again.

826
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's like all of these there's even some

827
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: like ID ended up writing them into the script. But

828
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: there's like occasional like I remember it's the Bureau of

829
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: Indian Affairs at this point, but there's like occasional like

830
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: government people who are part of this and like priests

831
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: and shit who are like no, it's fine, they're not

832
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: just leave them alone. It's fine, you know. And these

833
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: are not the voices that get listened to, right, the

834
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: US is like, we never do that. Yeah, no, totally.

835
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: They go to arrest sitting bowl basically because he's a

836
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: traditionalist and he's associated with ghost dancing. So they're like, sorry,

837
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: but we got take you to jail just just to

838
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, just we're gonna show up with like a

839
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: fuck ton of guys and some machine guns just to

840
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: take you to jail, just to jail. Don't worry.

841
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: That's the normal way people get arrested, right.

842
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, I'm like thinking about the times

843
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: I got arrested. There were a lot of cops when

844
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: I got arrested, but I've.

845
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: Been arrested a few times and there were no machine

846
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: guns in any of them.

847
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally, and so oh god, they might have

848
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: been cannon with grape shot. I don't want to like

849
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: get my.

850
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: Machine anywhere arrest or sitting bulls.

851
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: No no, I sitting bulls. Yeah no. If they had

852
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: cannon and grape shot at my arrest, I hop back

853
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: into my time machine and to be all.

854
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: Say, I'm surprised I haven't heard that story before.

855
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I haven't come out of the time traveler yet.

856
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: Oh no, wait, I was trying to convince everyone I'm

857
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: a vampire has been around for a long time. I'm

858
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: gonna keep my story straight. I'm gonna convince anyone of

859
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: any bullshit plausible.

860
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: All of those those tin type photographs you have of

861
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: yourself should uh yeah, should help with that.

862
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 1: Exactly very few people who are born it is, say

863
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: one believe.

864
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so unbelievably credible.

865
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: I threw the bomb at Haymarket. That's the rumor I've

866
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: been trying to spread. I like it that's a good one.

867
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: I mean you, I mean and this is this is

868
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: more a function of your having been a cool a

869
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: cool punk for like a lot of your life. But

870
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: like you have enough stories, then it's like a little

871
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: plausible that like, wait a second, is she telling me

872
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,479
Speaker 2: like three hundred years worth of stories of just trying

873
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: to make it sound like she had a super wild

874
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: teens to twenties?

875
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, yeah, like it's nineteen eighties eight, not seventeen eighties.

876
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: Don't worry, I got it.

877
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 3: I got accused of being a vampire in high school.

878
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 3: But that's because Twilight was popular and I was pale.

879
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, and Sparkle was that person hitting on you?

880
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: Because I think that's what was happening with Twilight.

881
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: Who knows could certainly not me as a teenager would

882
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 1: not have known if someone was hitting on name. That's

883
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: that's exactly my point.

884
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: I was, like, who knows, I barely tell if somebody's

885
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 2: hitting on me right now?

886
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: Now enough, all right? So they show up to arrest

887
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: sitting bowl, and these are Indian bureau cops, which is

888
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: they are other Indigenous folks who are now working for

889
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: the US government, which is like one of the things

890
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: actually that we have talked about, for example, is that

891
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: one of the reasons, like the British Empire, you know,

892
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: conquered half the fucking world, and they had like a

893
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: smaller standing army than like anyone else because they got

894
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: the indigenous people various places to become their cops, right, right,

895
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: And so when they first just show up to arrest

896
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: Sitting Bowl. There's a bunch of different versions of the story,

897
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: but the one that I find most you know, the

898
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: one I'm telling and the one that feels the most

899
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: accurate to me. They show up to arrest him, and

900
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: he's like fine, like fuck it, I'm like fifty six

901
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: or whatever, I'm not looking for trouble. I'll come with you.

902
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: And his son is like what, no, fuck that. And

903
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: then the other version is he's like stalling. He's like, oh,

904
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: let me get my things, which is fine too. Like,

905
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, he could resist arrest as much

906
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: as he wants. I don't care. Like I'm pro him,

907
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: you know.

908
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pro sitting Bull, and I'm pro resisting arrest.

909
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: If that's a decision you're willing to make for yourself.

910
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: Your dad has now told you the listener to resist

911
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 1: arrest because we are a lawyer, but we are your lawyer.

912
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: We're not yours, and we're not a lawyer.

913
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: But hell, I am your dad, the lawyer, and I'm

914
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: here to say yeah.

915
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: So a bunch of his supporters surround the hundred plus

916
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 1: troops which showed up to arrest Sitting Bul, and there's

917
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: like maybe the sun shoots like blah blah blah blah blah.

918
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: A firefight breaks out. Sitting Bull is shot by a soldier,

919
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: supposedly by accident, and he dies. In the ensuing battle,

920
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: eight cops and eight resistors, including Sitting Bull, die And

921
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: just because there's no other good place to shoe in,

922
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: shoehorn in this quote by Sitting Bull that I like,

923
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it here.

924
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 2: Every time you've stopped to read a quote, the quote

925
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: has been fucking incredible. So yeah, I'm here for it.

926
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: What treaty that the whites have kept has the Red

927
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 1: man broken? Not one? What treaty that the white man

928
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: ever made with us? Have they kept? Not one? When

929
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: I was a boy, the Sioux owned the world, the

930
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: sun rose and said on their land, and they sent

931
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today?

932
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?

933
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: What white man can say I ever stole his land

934
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: or a penny of his money? Yet they say I

935
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: am a thief. What white woman, however, lonely, was ever

936
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: captive or insulted by me? Yet they say I am

937
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: a bad Indian? What white man has ever seen me drunk?

938
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: Who has ever come to me hungry and unfed? Left unfed?

939
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: Who has ever seen me beat my wives or abuse

940
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: my children? What law have I broken? Is it wrong

941
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: for me to love my own? Is it wicked for

942
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: me because my skin is red because I am Lakota,

943
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: because I was born where my father died, because I

944
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: would die for my people in my country. And yeah, yeah,

945
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: he didn't steal shit. So ghost dancers wildly impoverished Lakota

946
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: folks trying to figure out how to fucking survive. They

947
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: have some guns because they hunt.

948
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 2: It's the nineteenth century. Everybody has a gun.

949
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know how gun control really exists in

950
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: this country only for marginalized folks. Yes, the US was like,

951
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: oh shit, we can't let have these, We can't let

952
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: these people who rely on hunting have guns.

953
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: We can't let these people were trying to kill have guns.

954
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So there's a camp of people on the

955
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: Wounded Knee River. It's December twenty ninth, nineteen eighty. It's

956
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: about three hundred people. They're mostly Mini Kanju Lakota with

957
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: some fugitives from the Hunk Papa Lakota, which is Sitting

958
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: Both people who fled after his murderers show up and

959
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: are like, give up your guns, you ghost dancers, you

960
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: evil scary ghost dancers, and best again a million versions

961
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: of what's about to happen. They go around and they're

962
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: like and some people are like, yeah, we've got some

963
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: guns here, just like some guns. And they're like, all right,

964
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: we're searching your shit. And then they like search and

965
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: they find some more guns, and they're like mostly just

966
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: old like shitty hunting rifles and stuff, right, And so

967
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: most of the people end up disarmed. And there's one man.

968
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: His name is Black Coyote, and there are a couple

969
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: accounts of who he was. He was definitely young, he

970
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: was probably deaf. He might have been the deaf mute

971
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 1: son of Sitting Bull, but I don't believe that that's

972
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: the case. I believe he was a mute. Sorry, I

973
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: believe he was deaf, but not mute. And I don't

974
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: believe he was the son of sitting Bowl, just out

975
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: of Most of the versions of the story do not

976
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: present him that way. But he doesn't know what the

977
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: fuck is happening, and he doesn't speak English as far

978
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: as I canna understand either, and so he's like, what

979
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: the fuck is happening, and he's like waving his gun around.

980
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: He's like, you can't have this gun. It costs me

981
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: a lot of fucking money, right, But he's not saying

982
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: in English, and the soldiers probably wouldn't have cared anyway,

983
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: and they're like, he's like, you gotta give me money

984
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: for this gun. You can't just fucking have it.

985
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 2: You know.

986
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: There is a struggle where they try to take the gun.

987
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 1: The gun goes off. I don't believe it hits anyone.

988
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: Full support if he just also was like fuck you

989
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: and shot them again, whatever, But all accounts say that

990
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 1: this was an accidental discharge, if it was him who

991
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: fired the first round at all. However, it's started, the

992
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: army opened fire. Sometimes it's called a battle, sometimes it's not,

993
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: And basically.

994
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 2: One side is being disarmed, like in the process of

995
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: being disarmed. Battle seems like a right, real that's a

996
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: real choice to call out a battle.

997
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: The only reason that I sometimes like I have some

998
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: sympathy for it it is to be like to not

999
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: just present people as victims.

1000
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: Totally and like people can fight back, yeah, you know,

1001
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: and but like still like calling it a battle like

1002
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: that both sides came equally armed.

1003
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so this gets framed as the deadliest mass

1004
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: shooting in US history, and I think that that is

1005
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: a reasonable thing to say about it, because it is

1006
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: a mass shooting and is the largest one in US history. Yeah,

1007
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: and it's a massacre. I've read one hundred and fifty

1008
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: three and I've heard three hundred Indigenous people were killed.

1009
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: Twenty five US soldiers got got. Most versions agree that

1010
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: most either all over, most of the soldiers died from

1011
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: friendly fire because they didn't like start off in battle lines.

1012
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: They just were like shooting, you know, and they were like, ah, whatever,

1013
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: and they're just like shooting in the crowd and there's

1014
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 1: like cannons of rape shot and shit on the fucking hills,

1015
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: like shooting into it all and like and then even

1016
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,439
Speaker 1: after the initial whatever, they are chasing people down and

1017
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: murdering non combatants and infants and shit in the snows.

1018
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: It's you know, at the end of December, like for

1019
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: miles around, they just do. It's bad, really bad. Is

1020
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: this a twenty of the soldiers we're given the medal

1021
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: of Honor.

1022
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 2: Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, I think that is a fact

1023
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: that I knew at some point. It's just this isn't

1024
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: like a real piece of shit country. We got a

1025
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: real piece of shit nation. I don't want to say

1026
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 2: country because I feel like that could mean like the space,

1027
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 2: but nation, the political entity, real piece of shit, and

1028
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think it's as good.

1029
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 1: No, not not into it. I'm not excited whenever people

1030
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, but you wouldn't be here one for them, Like, okay.

1031
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a

1032
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:04,479
Speaker 2: lot of things, like.

1033
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: Or maybe I would and I just would be fine,

1034
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: or maybe I wouldn't. I don't fucking care whatever, Like.

1035
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: That's a that's a weird argument that brings into question

1036
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: a lot of things about causality that you, as a

1037
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: time traveler, are much better rept to speak on than me.

1038
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Black Elk was also at this and a bullet

1039
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: grazed his head, but he survived. There's no justice for it,

1040
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: of course.

1041
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. When when twenty people are being given the medal

1042
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 2: of honor, I doubt that the other people they are

1043
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: being prosecuted for their crimes.

1044
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think later eventually the government like apologized or

1045
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: like one hundred years later, but they still didn't rescind

1046
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: medals of honor. You know, folks suffered.

1047
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: Badly, and I'm sure there's like elementary schools named after

1048
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 2: those guys or some shit.

1049
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: Probably, I don't know. Oh, it's also it was the

1050
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: seventh Cavalry. It was the same unit that like got

1051
00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: more or less wiped out in Custer's Last Stand and

1052
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: h and so it was like, this is part of

1053
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: why they're like fucking revenging and shit, you know, gotcha.

1054
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to take revenge for that time we

1055
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: charged headlong into a thing no everybody told us not

1056
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: to do and got our asses handed to us. We

1057
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: must take revenge, yeah, for our mistake.

1058
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone killed a serial rapist and now we have

1059
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: to go murder entire villages of people to prove that

1060
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: we're the good guys.

1061
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: It's a real, real, strong sense of justice at work. Obviously,

1062
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: folks suffered badly. People died of tuberculosis, cooped up into

1063
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 2: towns with no amenities, They were forbidden from sweat, lodges,

1064
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: bead work, rituals.

1065
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: Of all kinds. Their children were stolen into boarding schools.

1066
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: It took until nineteen twenty four for Indigenous Americans to

1067
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: get American citizenship. This is of course, also a trap

1068
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: to steal all the remaining land. In nineteen twenty seven,

1069
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore was announced by President Coolidge. In nineteen thirty four,

1070
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: the Indian Reorganization Act with pass that gave people the

1071
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: right to live in worship traditionally and give the reservations

1072
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: a certain amount of self governance. This supposedly nice thing

1073
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: also sucked. It was done for bad reasons. To quote

1074
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: the book In the Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter

1075
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: Matheson quote. The traditional forms of tribal government were replaced

1076
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: by Indian chartered corporations, complete with constitutions set up for

1077
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: their benefit under the auspices of the Bureau of Indian Affairs,

1078
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: and an intensely democratic people was subjected to the und

1079
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: democratic decisions of so called tribal councils that mostly reflected

1080
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: the wishes of the white man's church and state. While

1081
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: some tribal councils were and are strong and constructive in

1082
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: forwarding the best interests of their people, too many others

1083
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: became tame puppet governments. For the BIA and the Black

1084
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: Hills is now watched over by four great white heads

1085
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: carved into a holy mountain. Those mountains are in turn watched.

1086
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: Like a fucking like bullshit like novelty roadside attraction is

1087
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: basically what Mount Rushmore is like. That was a not

1088
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: only like a vandalism of a sacred site on land

1089
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 2: stolen through genocide, but just real bad art.

1090
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: Y also no just gaudy and it's and yeah, truly

1091
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: fuck it. And those foreheads are in turn watched over

1092
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: by a fuck ton of security less people determined that

1093
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: maybe the mountain will look better without them there.

1094
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe a big guillotine. They're on the lookout

1095
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: for big guillotines over there.

1096
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: John fire Lame Dear said what Mount Rushmore means is quote,

1097
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: it means that these big white faces are telling us, first,

1098
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: we gave you Indians a treaty that you could keep

1099
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: these black hills forever, as long as the sun would shine,

1100
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: in exchange for all the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana. Then

1101
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: we found the gold and took this last piece of

1102
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: land because we were stronger, and there were more of

1103
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: us and than there were of you, and because we

1104
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: had cannons and gatling guns while you hadn't even progressed

1105
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: far enough to make a steel knife. And when you

1106
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to leave, we wiped you out. And those

1107
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: of you who survived we put on reservations. And then

1108
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: we took the gold out a billion bucks, and we

1109
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: aren't through yet. And because we like the tourist dollars too,

1110
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: we have major sacred Black Hills into one vast Disneyland.

1111
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: And after we did all this, we carved up this mountain,

1112
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: the dwelling place of your spirits, and put our four

1113
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: gleaming white faces here. We are the conquerors. So completely

1114
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: unrelated to that, you see the clip of the Israeli

1115
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: media of settlers there saying that they should level the

1116
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,479
Speaker 1: Gaza strip and turn it into an amusement park.

1117
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 2: What an unrelated and gas story and yeah, random story.

1118
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like history is important to learn from.

1119
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: Yayh well that's part two.

1120
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: You're not yeah that that's part two. Yep, Okay, you're

1121
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: gonna you're gonna make me wait a week. Make Usually

1122
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 2: usually when we like do a cliffhanger at the end

1123
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 2: of an episode, it's fake, it's fiction. Yeah, but Martyred

1124
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: is genuinely gonna leave me hanging until next week. I know,

1125
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: I know that the listeners are always in that position,

1126
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 2: but like in this case, it affects me.

1127
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: I know, you were supposed to be the privileged one

1128
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: and here you are. I'm so sorry, Miriam. And if

1129
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: you want a spoiler for it, dear dear listener, you

1130
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: can go read about a Peltier and the support campaign

1131
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: and the campaign to get him freed. He's been in

1132
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: prison for almost fifty years and he shouldn't be and

1133
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that's happening now that also,

1134
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: I think that people should pay attention to and remember

1135
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: that it. Yeah, this is I don't know, I don't

1136
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: have a good rousing conclusion.

1137
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think like it whether it sounds kind

1138
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 2: of like you're going is to say, like, I don't know,

1139
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: maybe I'm putting words in your mouth where I thought

1140
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 2: you were going, is like the one of the biggest

1141
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 2: lies of American history about colonization is that like we

1142
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: did it and it's done, and like we did do it,

1143
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: and it is and it has been done. Like those

1144
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: crimes happened and those people are dead and those atrocities

1145
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: were committed. But like, colonization is not a static fact.

1146
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 2: It is it is something that can be undone, which

1147
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 2: I think we talked about at the end of the

1148
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 2: episode last week because it's kind of the only thing

1149
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 2: you can say at the end of something like this totally.

1150
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: And then you know, it's also worth looking at the

1151
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: world at where so it's also happening and look to

1152
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: see what you can do to talk about it, to

1153
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: support people who are fighting it, and to fight it

1154
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: because that's just bad.

1155
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're we're taking a bold anti genocide stance

1156
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 2: over here. You would think that wouldn't be a bold stance,

1157
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: like fucking non controversial, right, You would think, what a.

1158
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: Weird fighting And yet I I mean, clearly I'm the

1159
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: party most affected by all of this, but it's really

1160
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: weird to just suddenly be like, wait, I'm used to

1161
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: having like kind of wild beliefs that most of the

1162
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: people around me don't support. But there's some I thought

1163
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: we agreed on, you know, like no genocide, collective punishment bad.

1164
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: I thought we all knew that.

1165
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: I thought we were against bombing hospitals as like a

1166
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 2: species Yeah, yeah, totally. That is what felt like a

1167
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: species wide thing. It should be the ex exception the

1168
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,919
Speaker 2: people who are like, that's good anyway whatever. Yeah, those

1169
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 2: people we shouldn't hang out with. Yeah, anyway, go to

1170
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 2: m ap dot or dot slash, dot slash. You can't

1171
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 2: ad a fuck saying a URL is hard medical aid

1172
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 2: for Palestinians. Go there, give them money.

1173
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck, and support people who are. If you're not

1174
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: doing some of the direct action that's happening where you live,

1175
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: support the people who are doing it. Boost voices, and

1176
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: don't let people make this into what it's not about.

1177
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: Don't let people either claim that it's anti semitic to

1178
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: fight on behalf of Palestinian people, and also don't let

1179
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: actual anti Semitic ideas creep into the people around you.

1180
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: Both of those. But you know, if anybody says you're

1181
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 2: being anti semitic for saying that it's not good to

1182
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 2: bomb hospitals, tell him your dad, Miriam, who is also

1183
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: your lawyer, said that they were wrong.

1184
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we'll see you all the area.

1185
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: Miriam is dead dy.

1186
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. You're gonna have You're so glad you're

1187
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: not on social You're gonna be so glad you're not

1188
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: you're not on Twitter because you just said that you

1189
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: didn't know when people are gonna hit on you. It's

1190
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: so many people would hit on you based on this.

1191
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: Miriam is daddy. It is known.

1192
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it made a terrible mistake, not the first, won't

1193
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 2: be the last.

1194
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: All right, see everyone next week.

1195
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

1196
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1197
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and fool Zone Media,

1198
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 3: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us

1199
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 3: out on the iHeartRadio app, app a podcast, or wherever

1200
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts.