Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever. You have me,
Speaker 2: Lauren Zima and Chris Harrison coming to you today with
Speaker 2: a little playbook on.
Speaker 3: How to know who your real friends are.
Speaker 2: This topic was spurred for us by Amy Robock and TJ.
Speaker 3: Holmes talking about something that we definitely can relate to.
Speaker 2: They went on their podcast and talked about their quote,
Speaker 2: fake former colleagues from ABC who they say ghosted them
Speaker 2: after their scandal. They were talking on their podcast, which
Speaker 2: is also here on iHeartRadio, and Roeboch said, quote Amy said,
Speaker 2: we went back to work for two days after that
Speaker 2: tabloid that shall not be named released those photos of
Speaker 2: their private relationship. And she said there wasn't anyone catching
Speaker 2: us cheating. That's not what happened. But we came back
Speaker 2: for those two days were arounded by support, she said.
Speaker 2: But then Holmes interjected to say that their former colleagues
Speaker 2: were being fake. Some of it was BS, he said,
Speaker 2: and Robox said, yeah, once it was clear that we
Speaker 2: weren't coming back, I never heard from most people again.
Speaker 1: The gravy train stopped. People quit coming to the table, Babe.
Speaker 2: I want to go to you first because I think
Speaker 2: obviously with what we went through, we saw a lot
Speaker 2: of this just years ago ahead of Amy and TJ,
Speaker 2: so we can definitely relate, and you know, we really
Speaker 2: need to like just speak to them at some point
Speaker 2: and kind of you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just give them a little Let's have a mutual
Speaker 1: pod where we all just talk it.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Well, I think when you go through any extraordinary event,
Speaker 1: it puts pressure on those relationships and you find out
Speaker 1: who your real friends are on a much deeper serious level.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this when your dad died.
Speaker 1: You find out who really is there, who's really vested
Speaker 1: in you, who really cares about you. And it's not
Speaker 1: the people that'll bring the cast role on Tuesday. It's
Speaker 1: who's going to show up on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday of
Speaker 1: the following week and the years that follow and when
Speaker 1: we went through what we went through the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's a reckoning, right, It's a garage sale in your
Speaker 1: personal life. You go through this, by the way, when
Speaker 1: you go through a divorce, when you have kids and
Speaker 1: you're going through divorce and you've made so many friends
Speaker 1: because of your kids and sports and you know, neighborhood friends,
Speaker 1: and then you realize, well, they weren't really with you
Speaker 1: because you they were with you for your wife or
Speaker 1: the kids or whatever it was.
Speaker 2: And so or if they're the type of friend who
Speaker 2: like chooses the other person, you know, well they weren't
Speaker 2: really your friends. Yeah, and so sometimes people make people choose.
Speaker 1: There are many stages in life, and so I'm glad
Speaker 1: Amy and TJ spoke about this because it's something that
Speaker 1: should be relatable to all of us, because we will
Speaker 1: all go through this at some point in our lives,
Speaker 1: when you transition out of one thing into another in life,
Speaker 1: especially when it is on a massive scale. And yeah,
Speaker 1: when Lauren and I went through what we went through,
Speaker 1: same thing where there was a reckoning of there were
Speaker 1: those that stood beside us. There were those that called
Speaker 1: us immediately and spoke publicly or even privately, and they've
Speaker 1: never left our side and to this day they're right
Speaker 1: by our side. They're in that fox hole with you.
Speaker 1: But when the bullets start flying, as I like to say,
Speaker 1: you find out who will stay in that fox hole
Speaker 1: and who will really take the bullets for you. And
Speaker 1: a lot of people won't And let me just say
Speaker 1: in their defense, because yeah, some of them are just
Speaker 1: bottom feeders and they're just trying to attach to a
Speaker 1: good thing when things are going good. But you can't
Speaker 1: always in their defense, You can't always expect people to
Speaker 1: go through everything with you. That's kind of a selfish,
Speaker 1: narcissistic trait of like, this is big for me. I'm
Speaker 1: going through something traumatic, Therefore you should care and go
Speaker 1: through it with me.
Speaker 3: Now, the people that people got their own stuff going
Speaker 3: on here. Yeah, people have.
Speaker 1: Their own shit and they have their own stuff to
Speaker 1: do with, and you can expect them to understand the
Speaker 1: depths of what you're feeling. No one could ever understand
Speaker 1: what we were going through and what we were feeling
Speaker 1: in those moments. The people that loved us most dove
Speaker 1: in to try to figure that out. No one could
Speaker 1: really know what you were going through when your dad died.
Speaker 1: The people that loved you most figured it out and
Speaker 1: they stayed with you to learn that. But you can't
Speaker 1: expect everybody. And when you're on set for Amy and TJ,
Speaker 1: they're at GMA, there's people in the green room, they
Speaker 1: come into your dressing room because you're surviving every day.
Speaker 1: There's people I traveled with, I took care of their kids,
Speaker 1: I helped them on day to day life.
Speaker 3: You know, I would get a.
Speaker 1: Bar set up in paradise or at a bar set
Speaker 1: up when we're quarantined when we were shooting Clayer season
Speaker 1: because we're stuck, and so I had a burger and
Speaker 1: a bar come in. And everyone loves you in.
Speaker 3: Those moments you're trying to keep treat the crew.
Speaker 1: You're trying to treat the crew, You're trying to take
Speaker 1: care of everybody, and everyone's like, oh, we love you, bro,
Speaker 1: we love you bro. And you think in those moments
Speaker 1: they would never leave you, Well they will.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: You know, you've made such a good point in the
Speaker 2: word reckoning or the phrase garage sale, Yeah, are really applicable.
Speaker 2: There's friends in your life that are friends for a
Speaker 2: reason and friends for a season, right, Like some of
Speaker 2: what you're talking about is just the natural flow, and
Speaker 2: I think that's something we can't get upset about. Like
Speaker 2: if you move, you're going to hold onto some friends
Speaker 2: long distance and some you won't. And it's not that
Speaker 2: anything bad happened or that there's any anger or malice
Speaker 2: there It's just you have to have a certain level
Speaker 2: of depth of friendship to overcome when when things get harder,
Speaker 2: when it's not convenient or easy friendship. But then there's
Speaker 2: like a tragic case or where something horrible happens, and
Speaker 2: that's a different story, and that's kind of what you're
Speaker 2: talking about with us or with my dad and that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And what I'm looking for in those
Speaker 2: moments is I don't necessarily need people to, like publicly
Speaker 2: as you're saying, go through it with you or stand
Speaker 2: beside you, like I mean, I know that, you know,
Speaker 2: we didn't. Really The problem with what happened was that
Speaker 2: at that time, anybody who said anything in your defense
Speaker 2: was going to get railed. The same was going to
Speaker 2: significantly suffer, And we didn't want anyone to.
Speaker 3: Lose jobs or get in trouble for standing up and defending.
Speaker 2: So I didn't expect that from people. I appreciate it,
Speaker 2: and I knew who our real friends were, the people
Speaker 2: who were like reaching out just to us directly, the
Speaker 2: people who stuck out to me, or the people who
Speaker 2: didn't reach out behind the scenes at all, like who
Speaker 2: you know, it's really telling if someone only reaches out
Speaker 2: and supports you.
Speaker 3: Publicly but not privately, right, yes.
Speaker 2: And then a whole other level is the people who
Speaker 2: took advantage of the moment and who maybe you thought
Speaker 2: were your friend and who like slammed you and took
Speaker 2: advantage of getting their name in the headlines and made
Speaker 2: the moment about them.
Speaker 3: That's really the worst kind of person, And that's someone.
Speaker 1: I was thinking that too. It's the people that were jealous,
Speaker 1: the people that tug on your cape and take try
Speaker 1: and take advantage of a moment that that happened.
Speaker 2: But I think some of what Amy and TJ are
Speaker 2: talking about here isn't like specific to our business. It's
Speaker 2: sometimes your work friends are not your life friends. And
Speaker 2: I think we have a lot of mentality, Like business
Speaker 2: culture is like your work family, and maybe.
Speaker 3: It used to be a little different years ago.
Speaker 2: I've talked to my mom about this, because we're two
Speaker 2: different generations obviously, Like our businesses used to be, like
Speaker 2: maybe you worked for your neighborhood furniture store and you
Speaker 2: might work somewhere for decades and those people really were
Speaker 2: kind of your family. I think now a lot of
Speaker 2: people work for really big corporations, and you hear this oh,
Speaker 2: our work family thing, but it's like the reality is
Speaker 2: that company would fire you if they needed to, and
Speaker 2: there's not as much loyalty, and the camaraderie is more
Speaker 2: like for image purposes than it is real. And that's
Speaker 2: not to say you won't find work friends, but I
Speaker 2: think when you leave a job, if you walk away
Speaker 2: with like one or two really good friends from that,
Speaker 2: that's great.
Speaker 3: Not everybody who is your work friend is going to
Speaker 3: stay your real friend.
Speaker 1: I think it's important that and this is a good
Speaker 1: exercise in life to take stock in life of who
Speaker 1: you are pouring your life and love and emotion into.
Speaker 1: Are they really there for you? Are they really that
Speaker 1: into you? No? But are they really that good of friends?
Speaker 1: And I think it's important that you don't exaggerate in
Speaker 1: your own mind and your own heart of what these
Speaker 1: people really do mean to you, because, like you said,
Speaker 1: especially what you know you find out in these businesses
Speaker 1: is that sure everybody's friendly. And the executives that we were, look,
Speaker 1: I was with people that would tell me they love
Speaker 1: me every day at the network, at the studio, So bro,
Speaker 1: we love you. We'll always take care of you. You know,
Speaker 1: you do everything for us. You've taken all the bullets,
Speaker 1: You've done this. We love you, We love you. Those
Speaker 1: people are nowhere to be found and they will fire you,
Speaker 1: sell you, trade you for a bag of catfish if
Speaker 1: it helps them. That's the business. And so I'm glad
Speaker 1: that TJ and Amy brought this up. But I hope
Speaker 1: that they brought it up not to be bitter about it,
Speaker 1: but to just say, hey, this is something that happened
Speaker 1: to us, because it happens to everybody in their life
Speaker 1: at some point in some way, and I think it's
Speaker 1: a really monumental important thing to learn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, TJ said, quote, we get it to a certain degree.
Speaker 2: Everybody's trying to hold on to their job. They don't
Speaker 2: want to be seen as being an ally of the
Speaker 2: two people that ABC News doesn't like. We get it
Speaker 2: to a certain degree. We stayed away from some of
Speaker 2: our former colleagues because we were so worried about them.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's look, I could you don't want
Speaker 2: to we would do that. Yeah, we did because we
Speaker 2: didn't want people's jobs to be affected. I mean when
Speaker 2: we went through everything, you were so I don't even
Speaker 2: know how many times you said like you didn't you
Speaker 2: just wanted the show to be okay because you didn't
Speaker 2: want people lose their jobs. Yeah, And you know what's
Speaker 2: sticking out to me too, And it's a similarity between
Speaker 2: my dad and you.
Speaker 3: Is also time Like that is what's a little weird.
Speaker 2: Is it's sort of easy to say, oh, your work friends,
Speaker 2: Like it's easy to say what I just said, your
Speaker 2: work friends aren't your real friends. But when you have
Speaker 2: longevity at a place, like you'd been at the show
Speaker 2: for twenty years. My dad had been at his law
Speaker 2: firm for like thirty years, so you do think at
Speaker 2: a certain point, like we're friends, right, I've known you
Speaker 2: twenty years that I've heard about your kids growing up?
Speaker 2: And what was that like for you? Because I don't
Speaker 2: have that same like I'll talk about my dad' stuff
Speaker 2: in a minute, but what was the What was it
Speaker 2: like with somebody who maybe you weren't best friends with
Speaker 2: but you'd known them twenty years at the show and
Speaker 2: were there people who didn't who disappointed you like that?
Speaker 1: Yes, there were people that disappointed me. You know what.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of people that I helped kind
Speaker 1: of bring up in the business, and I fought form
Speaker 1: and I really tried to teach them, and because I
Speaker 1: loved being a mentor in that world and have watched
Speaker 1: young people grow up, because again we're a victim of
Speaker 1: our own success over there. So we'd been together so long.
Speaker 1: People had started on the show as interns or pas
Speaker 1: or what have you, that's like the lowest level of production,
Speaker 1: and moved into really great roles. And so to watch
Speaker 1: them on that ride, to support them and help them,
Speaker 1: you know, fight the fight and what can be a
Speaker 1: very tough, cruel business, and then to kind of have
Speaker 1: them turn their back on you in a very grand way.
Speaker 1: Some were very public. There was there was kind of
Speaker 1: one public thing that happened that I was really disappointed
Speaker 1: in everybody, but like t like TJ just said, I
Speaker 1: also kind of understand because when you're a drowning person
Speaker 1: and if you try to help that person, they'll drag
Speaker 1: you down too. I think everybody saw me as well.
Speaker 1: I just got to stay away from that. I got
Speaker 1: to save my own job. And there was there was
Speaker 1: some animosity that had grown between me and the losses,
Speaker 1: and so I think these people were like, look, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to keep my head down and stay the course.
Speaker 1: And so interestingly enough, and I'll be interested to know
Speaker 1: if this happens with TJ and Amy. Time can often
Speaker 1: heal a lot of those wounds. And there are people
Speaker 1: that have later come out and said, you know, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I wish I had spoken up. You know, now that
Speaker 1: I have reflection upon that time, you know, I really
Speaker 1: feel bad about leaving you or not saying something.
Speaker 3: And it's easy to get caught up in the pac mentality.
Speaker 1: And I tell them thank you. I love that, but
Speaker 1: I also understand because you have to always remember the
Speaker 1: moment and have some grace and compassion for what everybody
Speaker 1: was dealing with in that moment, because again later we think, oh,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad, or that wasn't that crazy, Why
Speaker 1: didn't you say something? You got to remember that moment
Speaker 1: and how crazy it was, because it was just as
Speaker 1: crazy for them, and so you got to have a
Speaker 1: little compassion and grace as far as that goes to.
Speaker 1: And you know, I felt like that in my marriage,
Speaker 1: you know, when I got divorced. You've got to give
Speaker 1: people the grace to be like it's confusing for them too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had friends like apologize to me later and
Speaker 2: say I wasn't really there for you when your dad died,
Speaker 2: Like I gave you a card right when it happened,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't there for you. And I have no anger.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, we were like twenty two
Speaker 2: years old, Like nobody understood it and nobody got it.
Speaker 1: I think is emotionally are they equipped to come to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I do have some resentment about like certain family
Speaker 2: members who I don't think we're there for my family,
Speaker 2: who should have known better, who were adults.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: And you know my dad's I mentioned my dad's company
Speaker 2: where he worked.
Speaker 3: He was there for thirty years, And I.
Speaker 2: Do think one thing my dad did was he spent
Speaker 2: so much time where he worked because he wanted to
Speaker 2: provide a good life for his family, and he didn't
Speaker 2: really invest in that many friendships, Like he had work
Speaker 2: and he had his family, and that was all of
Speaker 2: his time. And I do think he thought the people
Speaker 2: who he worked with were his friends. I have not
Speaker 2: heard from any of those people since the funeral, not ones,
Speaker 2: and that blows my mind when I think about it,
Speaker 2: because I watched them stand up there and talk about him,
Speaker 2: and I put together my twenty one year old self
Speaker 2: with the help of a friend, cried over putting togethers
Speaker 2: sorry the slideshow of his life, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was a lot of work stuff and that was his
Speaker 2: time away from his kids and everybody who I met
Speaker 2: who he worked with. One thing did make me really
Speaker 2: happy was like they knew so much about me because
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, all your dad did.
Speaker 3: Was talk about you guys.
Speaker 2: But they didn't reach out, you know, they didn't check
Speaker 2: on us. And that was like a learning moment for me,
Speaker 2: and a lesson. I kind of wish I'd remembered a
Speaker 2: little harder when we went through everything, which is like
Speaker 2: you might think that these people are your friends, but
Speaker 2: sometimes when I connective.
Speaker 3: Thread the job or whatever it is, or maybe they had.
Speaker 2: Their own issues or resentments, like that goes away and
Speaker 2: maybe part of it wasn't real, you know, it just
Speaker 2: it shines a light.
Speaker 3: And to me, I think, you know.
Speaker 2: As we're all operating different friendships in our life, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get the I you know, I've got kids to
Speaker 2: provide for and I have my own job to worry
Speaker 2: but I get that.
Speaker 3: But I will say, you want to be able to.
Speaker 2: Lay your head on the pillow at night and think
Speaker 2: I did the right thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I.
Speaker 2: Think in your situation, there were some people, and those
Speaker 2: were the people who later reached out back to you
Speaker 2: who looked back and thought I didn't do the right thing.
Speaker 3: I should have stood up.
Speaker 2: For him, like the behind the scenes people who didn't
Speaker 2: have to stand up for you publicly but should have
Speaker 2: stood up for you behind the scenes, or the people
Speaker 2: who should have reached out more they knew that they
Speaker 2: didn't do the right thing there.
Speaker 1: And the good thing is, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I know you and I can put our head down
Speaker 1: on the pillow and know that we did do the
Speaker 1: right thing through that whole situation. We didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: try to burn Rome down. We didn't try to take
Speaker 1: anybody personal down. And I think the takeaway from all
Speaker 1: of this is, and we always talk about, be careful
Speaker 1: of what defined you in this world. Be careful if
Speaker 1: it's your job, be careful what you know, what defines
Speaker 1: who you are. But also be careful who defined you
Speaker 1: and who you really put your stock in, and who
Speaker 1: really is the sum total of you. The people that
Speaker 1: are closest to you, you know, think long and hard
Speaker 1: about who those people are, what they represent, and what
Speaker 1: they give you and what you give them. And this
Speaker 1: goes both ways. Who are you to them? Are you
Speaker 1: a good friend? Are you that person? Are you that
Speaker 1: mentor are you the person that'll go the extra mile?
Speaker 1: Are you the person that when they just lost their
Speaker 1: mom or dad you really were there for them. You
Speaker 1: know this isn't just on everybody else. You are a
Speaker 1: part of this as well. Are you that good of
Speaker 1: a human being? But I guess the takeaway is because
Speaker 1: ful of not only what defines you, but who.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the simple test for me is this friend, this partner,
Speaker 2: whoever it is. Are they making you better? Are you
Speaker 2: making them better? Are you both challenging each other to
Speaker 2: be better? Are they like growing you as a person
Speaker 2: and not in like a distinct let's have a talk
Speaker 2: about this way. But like I surround myself, my friends
Speaker 2: are all honestly like really and we've stayed friends because
Speaker 2: they're all super smart, driven, loving women like in their
Speaker 2: careers and being moms, And so they make me better
Speaker 2: just in who they are and in all the conversations
Speaker 2: we have, not in like an overt way, but in
Speaker 2: all the things we talk about, in the perspectives that
Speaker 2: they give me.
Speaker 3: So Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I just thought of something. You know, my late great
Speaker 1: grandmother always used to say, Chris, surround yourself with people
Speaker 1: who are greater, equal, or greater than you, and people
Speaker 1: that will help you grow. It's kind of what you
Speaker 1: were just saying. And what I realized as I look back,
Speaker 1: is I away from that in my professional life. I
Speaker 1: was not around good people in my professional life, and
Speaker 1: I think I got caught up in the machine. I
Speaker 1: got caught up in the glitz and the glamor of
Speaker 1: it all, and I didn't look at what was really important,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't surround myself with people that are
Speaker 1: equal or better than me as human beings. They weren't
Speaker 1: good people. And I think that's why I'm so excited
Speaker 1: about what we're doing now with Merritt Street, is we
Speaker 1: have surrounded ourselves with people who are equal or better
Speaker 1: and good people. And I look back and I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: you know what that's on me?
Speaker 2: No, But look you also again, you had kids in
Speaker 2: a family, and you had a job, and I think
Speaker 2: you love the fans. That's the thing is, it's like
Speaker 2: very much everybody who watched the show that was always
Speaker 2: such a good relationship for you, and I think, I
Speaker 2: really think that's what kept you at the show as
Speaker 2: long as it did.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm speaking for you for sure.
Speaker 1: That connection and that love and the joy that you
Speaker 1: know as you walk through an airport that everybody seemed
Speaker 1: to have, you know, it's what it was, that connective tissue.
Speaker 3: For so many relationship people.
Speaker 1: Great people and a lot of people. Again, a lot
Speaker 1: of people I did work with were very wonderful and
Speaker 1: our good friends.
Speaker 2: But you're right as we walk into Merit, that's something
Speaker 2: you and I like why we signed on with Merret
Speaker 2: really early. We talked about like whoa, We didn't know
Speaker 2: it could be like this, Like these people are all
Speaker 2: they all seem to be really good people in Hollywood
Speaker 2: that's hard to come by, so we are super excited
Speaker 2: for all that's to come. Hope this has given everybody
Speaker 2: a little perspective today. Please feel free to dm us
Speaker 2: with your thoughts or more, and as always, we love
Speaker 2: talking to you guys, and we will talk to you
Speaker 2: next time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.