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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever. You have me,

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Speaker 2: Lauren Zima and Chris Harrison coming to you today with

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Speaker 2: a little playbook on.

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Speaker 3: How to know who your real friends are.

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Speaker 2: This topic was spurred for us by Amy Robock and TJ.

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Speaker 3: Holmes talking about something that we definitely can relate to.

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Speaker 2: They went on their podcast and talked about their quote,

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Speaker 2: fake former colleagues from ABC who they say ghosted them

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Speaker 2: after their scandal. They were talking on their podcast, which

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Speaker 2: is also here on iHeartRadio, and Roeboch said, quote Amy said,

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Speaker 2: we went back to work for two days after that

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Speaker 2: tabloid that shall not be named released those photos of

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Speaker 2: their private relationship. And she said there wasn't anyone catching

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Speaker 2: us cheating. That's not what happened. But we came back

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Speaker 2: for those two days were arounded by support, she said.

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Speaker 2: But then Holmes interjected to say that their former colleagues

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Speaker 2: were being fake. Some of it was BS, he said,

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Speaker 2: and Robox said, yeah, once it was clear that we

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Speaker 2: weren't coming back, I never heard from most people again.

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Speaker 1: The gravy train stopped. People quit coming to the table, Babe.

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Speaker 2: I want to go to you first because I think

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Speaker 2: obviously with what we went through, we saw a lot

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Speaker 2: of this just years ago ahead of Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 2: so we can definitely relate, and you know, we really

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Speaker 2: need to like just speak to them at some point

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Speaker 2: and kind of you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just give them a little Let's have a mutual

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Speaker 1: pod where we all just talk it.

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Speaker 3: What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think when you go through any extraordinary event,

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Speaker 1: it puts pressure on those relationships and you find out

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Speaker 1: who your real friends are on a much deeper serious level.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this when your dad died.

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Speaker 1: You find out who really is there, who's really vested

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Speaker 1: in you, who really cares about you. And it's not

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Speaker 1: the people that'll bring the cast role on Tuesday. It's

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Speaker 1: who's going to show up on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday of

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Speaker 1: the following week and the years that follow and when

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Speaker 1: we went through what we went through the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a reckoning, right, It's a garage sale in your

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Speaker 1: personal life. You go through this, by the way, when

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Speaker 1: you go through a divorce, when you have kids and

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Speaker 1: you're going through divorce and you've made so many friends

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Speaker 1: because of your kids and sports and you know, neighborhood friends,

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Speaker 1: and then you realize, well, they weren't really with you

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Speaker 1: because you they were with you for your wife or

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Speaker 1: the kids or whatever it was.

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Speaker 2: And so or if they're the type of friend who

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Speaker 2: like chooses the other person, you know, well they weren't

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Speaker 2: really your friends. Yeah, and so sometimes people make people choose.

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Speaker 1: There are many stages in life, and so I'm glad

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Speaker 1: Amy and TJ spoke about this because it's something that

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Speaker 1: should be relatable to all of us, because we will

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Speaker 1: all go through this at some point in our lives,

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Speaker 1: when you transition out of one thing into another in life,

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Speaker 1: especially when it is on a massive scale. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: when Lauren and I went through what we went through,

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Speaker 1: same thing where there was a reckoning of there were

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Speaker 1: those that stood beside us. There were those that called

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Speaker 1: us immediately and spoke publicly or even privately, and they've

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Speaker 1: never left our side and to this day they're right

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Speaker 1: by our side. They're in that fox hole with you.

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Speaker 1: But when the bullets start flying, as I like to say,

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Speaker 1: you find out who will stay in that fox hole

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Speaker 1: and who will really take the bullets for you. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of people won't And let me just say

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Speaker 1: in their defense, because yeah, some of them are just

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Speaker 1: bottom feeders and they're just trying to attach to a

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Speaker 1: good thing when things are going good. But you can't

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Speaker 1: always in their defense, You can't always expect people to

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Speaker 1: go through everything with you. That's kind of a selfish,

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Speaker 1: narcissistic trait of like, this is big for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: going through something traumatic, Therefore you should care and go

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Speaker 1: through it with me.

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Speaker 3: Now, the people that people got their own stuff going

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Speaker 3: on here. Yeah, people have.

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Speaker 1: Their own shit and they have their own stuff to

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Speaker 1: do with, and you can expect them to understand the

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Speaker 1: depths of what you're feeling. No one could ever understand

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Speaker 1: what we were going through and what we were feeling

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Speaker 1: in those moments. The people that loved us most dove

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Speaker 1: in to try to figure that out. No one could

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Speaker 1: really know what you were going through when your dad died.

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Speaker 1: The people that loved you most figured it out and

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Speaker 1: they stayed with you to learn that. But you can't

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Speaker 1: expect everybody. And when you're on set for Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 1: they're at GMA, there's people in the green room, they

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Speaker 1: come into your dressing room because you're surviving every day.

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Speaker 1: There's people I traveled with, I took care of their kids,

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Speaker 1: I helped them on day to day life.

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Speaker 3: You know, I would get a.

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Speaker 1: Bar set up in paradise or at a bar set

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Speaker 1: up when we're quarantined when we were shooting Clayer season

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Speaker 1: because we're stuck, and so I had a burger and

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Speaker 1: a bar come in. And everyone loves you in.

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Speaker 3: Those moments you're trying to keep treat the crew.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to treat the crew, You're trying to take

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Speaker 1: care of everybody, and everyone's like, oh, we love you, bro,

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Speaker 1: we love you bro. And you think in those moments

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Speaker 1: they would never leave you, Well they will.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've made such a good point in the

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Speaker 2: word reckoning or the phrase garage sale, Yeah, are really applicable.

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Speaker 2: There's friends in your life that are friends for a

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Speaker 2: reason and friends for a season, right, Like some of

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about is just the natural flow, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's something we can't get upset about. Like

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Speaker 2: if you move, you're going to hold onto some friends

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Speaker 2: long distance and some you won't. And it's not that

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Speaker 2: anything bad happened or that there's any anger or malice

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Speaker 2: there It's just you have to have a certain level

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Speaker 2: of depth of friendship to overcome when when things get harder,

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Speaker 2: when it's not convenient or easy friendship. But then there's

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Speaker 2: like a tragic case or where something horrible happens, and

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Speaker 2: that's a different story, and that's kind of what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about with us or with my dad and that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing. And what I'm looking for in those

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Speaker 2: moments is I don't necessarily need people to, like publicly

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Speaker 2: as you're saying, go through it with you or stand

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Speaker 2: beside you, like I mean, I know that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we didn't. Really The problem with what happened was that

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Speaker 2: at that time, anybody who said anything in your defense

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Speaker 2: was going to get railed. The same was going to

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Speaker 2: significantly suffer, And we didn't want anyone to.

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Speaker 3: Lose jobs or get in trouble for standing up and defending.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't expect that from people. I appreciate it,

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Speaker 2: and I knew who our real friends were, the people

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Speaker 2: who were like reaching out just to us directly, the

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Speaker 2: people who stuck out to me, or the people who

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Speaker 2: didn't reach out behind the scenes at all, like who

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Speaker 2: you know, it's really telling if someone only reaches out

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Speaker 2: and supports you.

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Speaker 3: Publicly but not privately, right, yes.

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Speaker 2: And then a whole other level is the people who

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Speaker 2: took advantage of the moment and who maybe you thought

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Speaker 2: were your friend and who like slammed you and took

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Speaker 2: advantage of getting their name in the headlines and made

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Speaker 2: the moment about them.

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Speaker 3: That's really the worst kind of person, And that's someone.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking that too. It's the people that were jealous,

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Speaker 1: the people that tug on your cape and take try

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Speaker 1: and take advantage of a moment that that happened.

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Speaker 2: But I think some of what Amy and TJ are

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Speaker 2: talking about here isn't like specific to our business. It's

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Speaker 2: sometimes your work friends are not your life friends. And

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Speaker 2: I think we have a lot of mentality, Like business

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Speaker 2: culture is like your work family, and maybe.

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Speaker 3: It used to be a little different years ago.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to my mom about this, because we're two

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Speaker 2: different generations obviously, Like our businesses used to be, like

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Speaker 2: maybe you worked for your neighborhood furniture store and you

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Speaker 2: might work somewhere for decades and those people really were

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Speaker 2: kind of your family. I think now a lot of

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Speaker 2: people work for really big corporations, and you hear this oh,

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Speaker 2: our work family thing, but it's like the reality is

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Speaker 2: that company would fire you if they needed to, and

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Speaker 2: there's not as much loyalty, and the camaraderie is more

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Speaker 2: like for image purposes than it is real. And that's

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Speaker 2: not to say you won't find work friends, but I

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Speaker 2: think when you leave a job, if you walk away

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Speaker 2: with like one or two really good friends from that,

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Speaker 2: that's great.

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Speaker 3: Not everybody who is your work friend is going to

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Speaker 3: stay your real friend.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important that and this is a good

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Speaker 1: exercise in life to take stock in life of who

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Speaker 1: you are pouring your life and love and emotion into.

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Speaker 1: Are they really there for you? Are they really that

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Speaker 1: into you? No? But are they really that good of friends?

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Speaker 1: And I think it's important that you don't exaggerate in

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Speaker 1: your own mind and your own heart of what these

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Speaker 1: people really do mean to you, because, like you said,

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Speaker 1: especially what you know you find out in these businesses

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Speaker 1: is that sure everybody's friendly. And the executives that we were, look,

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Speaker 1: I was with people that would tell me they love

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Speaker 1: me every day at the network, at the studio, So bro,

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Speaker 1: we love you. We'll always take care of you. You know,

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Speaker 1: you do everything for us. You've taken all the bullets,

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Speaker 1: You've done this. We love you, We love you. Those

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Speaker 1: people are nowhere to be found and they will fire you,

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Speaker 1: sell you, trade you for a bag of catfish if

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Speaker 1: it helps them. That's the business. And so I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that TJ and Amy brought this up. But I hope

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Speaker 1: that they brought it up not to be bitter about it,

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Speaker 1: but to just say, hey, this is something that happened

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Speaker 1: to us, because it happens to everybody in their life

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Speaker 1: at some point in some way, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a really monumental important thing to learn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, TJ said, quote, we get it to a certain degree.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's trying to hold on to their job. They don't

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Speaker 2: want to be seen as being an ally of the

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Speaker 2: two people that ABC News doesn't like. We get it

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Speaker 2: to a certain degree. We stayed away from some of

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Speaker 2: our former colleagues because we were so worried about them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's look, I could you don't want

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Speaker 2: to we would do that. Yeah, we did because we

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Speaker 2: didn't want people's jobs to be affected. I mean when

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Speaker 2: we went through everything, you were so I don't even

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Speaker 2: know how many times you said like you didn't you

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Speaker 2: just wanted the show to be okay because you didn't

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Speaker 2: want people lose their jobs. Yeah, And you know what's

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Speaker 2: sticking out to me too, And it's a similarity between

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Speaker 2: my dad and you.

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Speaker 3: Is also time Like that is what's a little weird.

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Speaker 2: Is it's sort of easy to say, oh, your work friends,

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Speaker 2: Like it's easy to say what I just said, your

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Speaker 2: work friends aren't your real friends. But when you have

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Speaker 2: longevity at a place, like you'd been at the show

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Speaker 2: for twenty years. My dad had been at his law

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Speaker 2: firm for like thirty years, so you do think at

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Speaker 2: a certain point, like we're friends, right, I've known you

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Speaker 2: twenty years that I've heard about your kids growing up?

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Speaker 2: And what was that like for you? Because I don't

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Speaker 2: have that same like I'll talk about my dad' stuff

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Speaker 2: in a minute, but what was the What was it

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Speaker 2: like with somebody who maybe you weren't best friends with

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Speaker 2: but you'd known them twenty years at the show and

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Speaker 2: were there people who didn't who disappointed you like that?

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Speaker 1: Yes, there were people that disappointed me. You know what.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot of people that I helped kind

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Speaker 1: of bring up in the business, and I fought form

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Speaker 1: and I really tried to teach them, and because I

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Speaker 1: loved being a mentor in that world and have watched

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Speaker 1: young people grow up, because again we're a victim of

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Speaker 1: our own success over there. So we'd been together so long.

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Speaker 1: People had started on the show as interns or pas

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Speaker 1: or what have you, that's like the lowest level of production,

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Speaker 1: and moved into really great roles. And so to watch

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Speaker 1: them on that ride, to support them and help them,

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Speaker 1: you know, fight the fight and what can be a

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Speaker 1: very tough, cruel business, and then to kind of have

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Speaker 1: them turn their back on you in a very grand way.

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Speaker 1: Some were very public. There was there was kind of

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Speaker 1: one public thing that happened that I was really disappointed

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Speaker 1: in everybody, but like t like TJ just said, I

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Speaker 1: also kind of understand because when you're a drowning person

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Speaker 1: and if you try to help that person, they'll drag

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Speaker 1: you down too. I think everybody saw me as well.

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Speaker 1: I just got to stay away from that. I got

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Speaker 1: to save my own job. And there was there was

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Speaker 1: some animosity that had grown between me and the losses,

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Speaker 1: and so I think these people were like, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to keep my head down and stay the course.

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Speaker 1: And so interestingly enough, and I'll be interested to know

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Speaker 1: if this happens with TJ and Amy. Time can often

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Speaker 1: heal a lot of those wounds. And there are people

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Speaker 1: that have later come out and said, you know, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I wish I had spoken up. You know, now that

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Speaker 1: I have reflection upon that time, you know, I really

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Speaker 1: feel bad about leaving you or not saying something.

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Speaker 3: And it's easy to get caught up in the pac mentality.

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Speaker 1: And I tell them thank you. I love that, but

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Speaker 1: I also understand because you have to always remember the

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Speaker 1: moment and have some grace and compassion for what everybody

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Speaker 1: was dealing with in that moment, because again later we think, oh,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad, or that wasn't that crazy, Why

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Speaker 1: didn't you say something? You got to remember that moment

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Speaker 1: and how crazy it was, because it was just as

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Speaker 1: crazy for them, and so you got to have a

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Speaker 1: little compassion and grace as far as that goes to.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I felt like that in my marriage,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I got divorced. You've got to give

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Speaker 1: people the grace to be like it's confusing for them too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had friends like apologize to me later and

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Speaker 2: say I wasn't really there for you when your dad died,

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Speaker 2: Like I gave you a card right when it happened,

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Speaker 2: but I wasn't there for you. And I have no anger.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, we were like twenty two

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Speaker 2: years old, Like nobody understood it and nobody got it.

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Speaker 1: I think is emotionally are they equipped to come to you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I do have some resentment about like certain family

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Speaker 2: members who I don't think we're there for my family,

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Speaker 2: who should have known better, who were adults.

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Speaker 1: Like.

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Speaker 2: And you know my dad's I mentioned my dad's company

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Speaker 2: where he worked.

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Speaker 3: He was there for thirty years, And I.

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Speaker 2: Do think one thing my dad did was he spent

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Speaker 2: so much time where he worked because he wanted to

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Speaker 2: provide a good life for his family, and he didn't

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Speaker 2: really invest in that many friendships, Like he had work

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Speaker 2: and he had his family, and that was all of

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Speaker 2: his time. And I do think he thought the people

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Speaker 2: who he worked with were his friends. I have not

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Speaker 2: heard from any of those people since the funeral, not ones,

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Speaker 2: and that blows my mind when I think about it,

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Speaker 2: because I watched them stand up there and talk about him,

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Speaker 2: and I put together my twenty one year old self

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Speaker 2: with the help of a friend, cried over putting togethers

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Speaker 2: sorry the slideshow of his life, and you know, it

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Speaker 2: was a lot of work stuff and that was his

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Speaker 2: time away from his kids and everybody who I met

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Speaker 2: who he worked with. One thing did make me really

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Speaker 2: happy was like they knew so much about me because

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Speaker 2: they were like, oh, all your dad did.

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Speaker 3: Was talk about you guys.

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Speaker 2: But they didn't reach out, you know, they didn't check

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Speaker 2: on us. And that was like a learning moment for me,

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Speaker 2: and a lesson. I kind of wish I'd remembered a

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Speaker 2: little harder when we went through everything, which is like

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Speaker 2: you might think that these people are your friends, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes when I connective.

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Speaker 3: Thread the job or whatever it is, or maybe they had.

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Speaker 2: Their own issues or resentments, like that goes away and

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Speaker 2: maybe part of it wasn't real, you know, it just

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Speaker 2: it shines a light.

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Speaker 3: And to me, I think, you know.

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Speaker 2: As we're all operating different friendships in our life, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I get the I you know, I've got kids to

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Speaker 2: provide for and I have my own job to worry

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Speaker 2: but I get that.

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Speaker 3: But I will say, you want to be able to.

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Speaker 2: Lay your head on the pillow at night and think

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Speaker 2: I did the right thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I.

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Speaker 2: Think in your situation, there were some people, and those

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Speaker 2: were the people who later reached out back to you

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Speaker 2: who looked back and thought I didn't do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: I should have stood up.

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Speaker 2: For him, like the behind the scenes people who didn't

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Speaker 2: have to stand up for you publicly but should have

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Speaker 2: stood up for you behind the scenes, or the people

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Speaker 2: who should have reached out more they knew that they

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Speaker 2: didn't do the right thing there.

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Speaker 1: And the good thing is, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: I know you and I can put our head down

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Speaker 1: on the pillow and know that we did do the

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Speaker 1: right thing through that whole situation. We didn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: try to burn Rome down. We didn't try to take

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Speaker 1: anybody personal down. And I think the takeaway from all

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Speaker 1: of this is, and we always talk about, be careful

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Speaker 1: of what defined you in this world. Be careful if

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Speaker 1: it's your job, be careful what you know, what defines

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Speaker 1: who you are. But also be careful who defined you

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Speaker 1: and who you really put your stock in, and who

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Speaker 1: really is the sum total of you. The people that

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Speaker 1: are closest to you, you know, think long and hard

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Speaker 1: about who those people are, what they represent, and what

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Speaker 1: they give you and what you give them. And this

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Speaker 1: goes both ways. Who are you to them? Are you

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Speaker 1: a good friend? Are you that person? Are you that

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Speaker 1: mentor are you the person that'll go the extra mile?

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Speaker 1: Are you the person that when they just lost their

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Speaker 1: mom or dad you really were there for them. You

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Speaker 1: know this isn't just on everybody else. You are a

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Speaker 1: part of this as well. Are you that good of

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Speaker 1: a human being? But I guess the takeaway is because

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Speaker 1: ful of not only what defines you, but who.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the simple test for me is this friend, this partner,

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Speaker 2: whoever it is. Are they making you better? Are you

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Speaker 2: making them better? Are you both challenging each other to

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Speaker 2: be better? Are they like growing you as a person

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Speaker 2: and not in like a distinct let's have a talk

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Speaker 2: about this way. But like I surround myself, my friends

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Speaker 2: are all honestly like really and we've stayed friends because

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Speaker 2: they're all super smart, driven, loving women like in their

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Speaker 2: careers and being moms, And so they make me better

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Speaker 2: just in who they are and in all the conversations

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Speaker 2: we have, not in like an overt way, but in

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Speaker 2: all the things we talk about, in the perspectives that

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Speaker 2: they give me.

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Speaker 3: So Yeah, you know, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I just thought of something. You know, my late great

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Speaker 1: grandmother always used to say, Chris, surround yourself with people

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Speaker 1: who are greater, equal, or greater than you, and people

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Speaker 1: that will help you grow. It's kind of what you

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Speaker 1: were just saying. And what I realized as I look back,

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Speaker 1: is I away from that in my professional life. I

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Speaker 1: was not around good people in my professional life, and

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Speaker 1: I think I got caught up in the machine. I

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Speaker 1: got caught up in the glitz and the glamor of

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Speaker 1: it all, and I didn't look at what was really important,

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Speaker 1: and so I didn't surround myself with people that are

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Speaker 1: equal or better than me as human beings. They weren't

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Speaker 1: good people. And I think that's why I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: about what we're doing now with Merritt Street, is we

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Speaker 1: have surrounded ourselves with people who are equal or better

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Speaker 1: and good people. And I look back and I'm like, damn,

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Speaker 1: you know what that's on me?

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Speaker 2: No, But look you also again, you had kids in

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Speaker 2: a family, and you had a job, and I think

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Speaker 2: you love the fans. That's the thing is, it's like

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Speaker 2: very much everybody who watched the show that was always

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Speaker 2: such a good relationship for you, and I think, I

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Speaker 2: really think that's what kept you at the show as

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Speaker 2: long as it did.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm speaking for you for sure.

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Speaker 1: That connection and that love and the joy that you

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Speaker 1: know as you walk through an airport that everybody seemed

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Speaker 1: to have, you know, it's what it was, that connective tissue.

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Speaker 3: For so many relationship people.

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Speaker 1: Great people and a lot of people. Again, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people I did work with were very wonderful and

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Speaker 1: our good friends.

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Speaker 2: But you're right as we walk into Merit, that's something

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Speaker 2: you and I like why we signed on with Merret

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Speaker 2: really early. We talked about like whoa, We didn't know

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Speaker 2: it could be like this, Like these people are all

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Speaker 2: they all seem to be really good people in Hollywood

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Speaker 2: that's hard to come by, so we are super excited

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Speaker 2: for all that's to come. Hope this has given everybody

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Speaker 2: a little perspective today. Please feel free to dm us

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Speaker 2: with your thoughts or more, and as always, we love

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Speaker 2: talking to you guys, and we will talk to you

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Speaker 2: next time because we have a lot more to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most

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Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a

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Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you

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Speaker 1: next time.