Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: From Marhard where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Love Love.
Speaker 3: I'm Caroline Heind of blomgg's world headquarters in New York.
Speaker 4: Now I'm Ed Lodlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Coming up, we'll break down to t SMC's first quarter
Speaker 3: earning support. This is the company scales up profit, but
Speaker 3: scales back. It's outlook for a chip market expansion.
Speaker 4: Plus, Google fires twenty eight employees after they were involved
Speaker 4: in protests against Project Nimbus to provide Israel's government and
Speaker 4: military with AI and cloud services. Will bring you the details.
Speaker 3: And Cisco's plan for keeping AI systems safe from attack
Speaker 3: artificial intelligence itself. Of course, we'll discuss the company's new
Speaker 3: safeguarding approach and so much more throughout this app. At first,
Speaker 3: and we check in on these markets and actually a
Speaker 3: little bit of optic in the NASZAC in some of
Speaker 3: those technology stocks to say we're up about five tens
Speaker 3: per percent.
Speaker 1: Now elsewhere, we've sort of been trending water.
Speaker 3: We'd been digesting what has been quite a harsh sell
Speaker 3: off throughout the week in stocks and indeed in bonds
Speaker 3: as we really start to digest just two cuts for
Speaker 3: the rest of the year, if that coming from the
Speaker 3: Federal Reserve tenure yields still up again four basis points
Speaker 3: four point six three is kort of where we currently
Speaker 3: are standing. We lost some of our technology. We'll get
Speaker 3: it back in a minute. We're currently seeing the vics
Speaker 3: on the downside, though, so some of that volatility that
Speaker 3: we've seen in the fear index in that gauge just
Speaker 3: dampening down. We're down just about seventeen level. Remember we
Speaker 3: spike to nineteen on the back of geopolitical risks at
Speaker 3: the beginning of this week.
Speaker 1: Move on, have a little look at what's happening in
Speaker 1: the world of.
Speaker 3: Crypto, because we had been, in fact seeing a bit
Speaker 3: of a rebound. We're up almost five percent on the day,
Speaker 3: but look we're still languishing out about a sixty three
Speaker 3: sixty four thousand dollar level. We dig into crypto a
Speaker 3: little bit more in a moment, and what are you
Speaker 3: watching on the micro.
Speaker 4: Well, we are going to look at alphabet pairent of Google.
Speaker 4: The shares a higher half percent they have been down
Speaker 4: earlier in the session. Very shortly in the program, we're
Speaker 4: going to go to our reporter davely Album and find
Speaker 4: out about these jobs that were cut or the firing
Speaker 4: as a result from the protests. Very well read Bloomberg,
Speaker 4: Terminal and online. A lot of interest in that story.
Speaker 4: The chip sector is the main focus of readers again
Speaker 4: this Thursday. Let's start with TSMC. It's now down on
Speaker 4: the ADR's three point eight percent have been much lower,
Speaker 4: giving us a maintenance of that capex guidance. Very strong
Speaker 4: in AI, weakness in smartphones. Remember this is the world's
Speaker 4: biggest contract manufacturer of semiconductors. And then a Bloomberg exclusive,
Speaker 4: Micron is softer half a percent. Bloomberg reporting that it's
Speaker 4: going to get about six point one billion dollars in
Speaker 4: grants from the US government as part of the Chips Act.
Speaker 4: Grants only, but there's a loan component as well, and
Speaker 4: it could come as soon next week. There's a lot
Speaker 4: to discuss, and for that we go to Bloomberg's Ian King,
Speaker 4: who leads our semiconductor coverage. Let's start with TSMC. The
Speaker 4: world pays attention at the moment when TSMC gives US numbers.
Speaker 4: We learned that AI is strong, high performance computer is strong,
Speaker 4: potentially smartphone is weak. What was your takeaway?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, that's absolutely right. They've confirmed basically the
Speaker 5: fears and hopes of everybody who's watching semiconductors right now.
Speaker 5: Smartphones were down steeply, and people will be concerned that
Speaker 5: that to read on Apple and what's happening to the iPhone,
Speaker 5: particularly in China. On the flip side of that, HPC
Speaker 5: high performance computing, which is obviously in video, AMD and
Speaker 5: all of the very large, very expensive chips were strongly.
Speaker 3: Pair that then with the news that we had with
Speaker 3: ASML yesterday and the fact that chip equipment perhaps isn't
Speaker 3: so in demand.
Speaker 1: What ISSMC really trying to signal here?
Speaker 5: What they're trying to signal really is you know that,
Speaker 5: as usual, they have the best read on what's going on,
Speaker 5: and they're really confirming what's going on in terms of
Speaker 5: these end market forces. We've been waiting for the smartphone
Speaker 5: market to come back for a long time. It is
Speaker 5: coming back in China, but unfortunately it's coming back for
Speaker 5: chips that are probably being made outside the Western ecosystem.
Speaker 5: So that's a concern there for the geopolitics, ASML is
Speaker 5: a longer term read on the confidence of a small
Speaker 5: group of companies, doesn't have as much of an indication
Speaker 5: on what's happening in the short term.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about Micron and Bloomberg's reporting that it will
Speaker 4: get six point one billion grant allocation from the Chips
Speaker 4: Act to build capacity in the United States. There's a
Speaker 4: loans component as well. The sources are telling us this
Speaker 4: we get announced next week. What do we know about
Speaker 4: the package Micron's been awarded.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, as ever, the companies want more, They
Speaker 5: want as much as they can probably get. This is
Speaker 5: being seen as roughly what commensurate with sort of microns
Speaker 5: role in the value chain here. Remember they make memory chips.
Speaker 5: That production, as with advanced logic, has been moving to
Speaker 5: East Asia for the last few decades. This is the
Speaker 5: Biden administration saying, hey, we haven't forgotten about memory. That's
Speaker 5: important to You need that in your phone, you need
Speaker 5: that in your data center. So they're enabling Micron to
Speaker 5: at least bring some production back to this country.
Speaker 3: And we've heard time and time again from the CEO
Speaker 3: Motor really talking about you need to make it worth
Speaker 3: my while though I could be building manufacturing abroad for
Speaker 3: much cheaper, where in the US is he going to
Speaker 3: be putting it? And really does it make economic sense?
Speaker 5: It makes economic sense if you get the government subsidies.
Speaker 5: What Sanjay has said all along, as you pointed out,
Speaker 5: and a lot of his colleagues have said the same thing.
Speaker 5: The government here needs to do the bare minimum, which
Speaker 5: is to close that gap in terms of what it
Speaker 5: costs between the US and places like Singapore, South Korea,
Speaker 5: Taiwan where those facilities are currently being made with a
Speaker 5: lot of government support, with tax regimes, with all of
Speaker 5: these things which helped large capital projects like that. He's
Speaker 5: looking at upstate New York, and he's looking at the
Speaker 5: home base of Micron, which is in Boise, Idaho.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Ian king always on for us. We so appreciate
Speaker 3: the analysis when it comes thick and fast across the
Speaker 3: trip sector.
Speaker 2: Meanway.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, let's get to Huawei.
Speaker 3: Let's release its latest series of smartphones today, sustaining its
Speaker 3: momentum after that breakthrough Mate sixty, Remember that device that
Speaker 3: helped erode Apple's dominance over in China.
Speaker 1: In that high end segment.
Speaker 3: Now the poorer seventy smartphone series starts at seven hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty dollars, then goes up from them, matching in fact,
Speaker 3: the price point of an iPhone fifteen n.
Speaker 4: All right. Coming up on the program, Google fires employees
Speaker 4: staging protests from California to New York over a contract
Speaker 4: with Israel. We can have that report next. A quick
Speaker 4: check on Trump Media and Technology shares hire fourteen percent
Speaker 4: in the session, adding to the gains of yesterday. Class
Speaker 4: expect trading. There's a lock up until September. A lot
Speaker 4: of activity in warrants market. This is the Spack one
Speaker 4: oh one. We're seeing a big deer, now a big rebound.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg technology. Time for Talking tech. And in
Speaker 4: the news, Elon Musk is apologizing for incorrectly low severance packages.
Speaker 4: The Testa CEO made the rare apology via email and
Speaker 4: said it has come to his attention that some severance
Speaker 4: packages were incorrectly low and it will be corrected immediately.
Speaker 4: The news comes after Tesla slashed global headcomt by more
Speaker 4: than ten percent as the ev baker struggles with slowing
Speaker 4: demand for electric vehicles. Plus, Apple CEO Tim Cook is
Speaker 4: meeting Singapore's incoming Prime Minister at the tail end of
Speaker 4: his most extensive Southeast Asia tour in years. There's the
Speaker 4: company searches for new growth markets and manufacturing locations to
Speaker 4: offset headwinds in China. The trip could pave the way
Speaker 4: for a more aggressive sales campaign in a densely populated
Speaker 4: region where Android phones from Samsung, Chaomi and the Oppo
Speaker 4: dominate the market. And Delivery said orders return to growth
Speaker 4: with a two percent increase in the first quarter, driven
Speaker 4: by strong progress in the food delivery company's international segment.
Speaker 4: Users place seventy three point five million orders in the
Speaker 4: first quarter. The London based company kept its guidance for
Speaker 4: the year unchanged.
Speaker 1: Carro.
Speaker 3: Now, there's another story that we're currently following ed and
Speaker 3: Google has fired twenty eight employees after they were involved
Speaker 3: in protests against a one point two billion dollar joint
Speaker 3: contract with Amazon to provide the Israeli government and military
Speaker 3: AI and cloud services.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: The protests took place across Google offices in New York
Speaker 3: and Seattle and California, and were led by the No
Speaker 3: Tech for Apartheid organization. Google said physically in other employees
Speaker 3: work and preventing them from accessing our facilities is a
Speaker 3: clear violation of our policies and completely unacceptable behavior. Joining
Speaker 3: us nay now A please to welcome Davey Albert, who
Speaker 3: has helped report on this very sensitive story ultimately daily.
Speaker 3: And the protests came a day before an all important
Speaker 3: Israeli government approval right for a five year strategic plan
Speaker 3: to transition to cloud. It's called Project Nimbus, and this
Speaker 3: was sensitive for certain employees.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I mean especially in the in the midst
Speaker 6: of the war between.
Speaker 1: Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 6: Employees have really been activated about this issue and have
Speaker 6: been organizing to try to protest the way that their
Speaker 6: work contributes to tools that would then serve the Israeli government,
Speaker 6: which again is engaged in war. And so they say
Speaker 6: that they have a right to you know, ban to
Speaker 6: get and object to this use of their work, and
Speaker 6: that US labor law actually protects them from sort of
Speaker 6: consequences from the company, discipline from the company, because they
Speaker 6: believe they are within the rights to come together over
Speaker 6: this issue.
Speaker 4: Davey, in your story, you present a very clear chronology
Speaker 4: of what happened and the perspective of both sides of
Speaker 4: the situation. When I put on social media you were
Speaker 4: coming on the show. One of the questions I got
Speaker 4: most commonly was could you tell us a bit more
Speaker 4: about the roles of those that were fired, what we
Speaker 4: know about those specifically, because it was quite a broad
Speaker 4: protest and we're saying less than fewer than thirty people
Speaker 4: actually lost their jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So from the workers we spoke to, several of them
Speaker 6: were software engineers, some of them worked on cloud, and
Speaker 6: there were even some employees who were involved in speaking
Speaker 6: out against Project Nimbus who work for DeepMind, which is
Speaker 6: Google's AI lab. You know, these these workers tend to
Speaker 6: not have specific visibility into exactly what Israel is doing
Speaker 6: with their technology because these contracts are so siloed and
Speaker 6: workers don't you know, directly work on on the tools
Speaker 6: that the Israeli government might use, but they build the
Speaker 6: tools that the Israeli government can then use for any purpose.
Speaker 6: There's been prior reporting that, you know, the cloud services
Speaker 6: that the Israeli government uses is on their own instance,
Speaker 6: private instance of Google Cloud, and so from that perspective,
Speaker 6: you know, employees can't see inside of that cloud that's
Speaker 6: on Israeli soil and being used by Israeli government. But
Speaker 6: these employees have in obviously following the news and believe
Speaker 6: that their work may be not so in a straight
Speaker 6: direct line, but still does contribute significantly to the way
Speaker 6: that the technology that Israel is now using and deploying
Speaker 6: in the war with Gaza.
Speaker 3: When you say Gaza actually not quite right, the war
Speaker 3: between Israel and Hamas. Of course, Hamas deemed of course
Speaker 3: a an issue a terrorist organization by the EU and
Speaker 3: the United States. Davey, I'm really interested in perhaps is
Speaker 3: this a tone shift in any way coming from the
Speaker 3: very leadership of Alphabet and indeed Google. I mean, so Nopitchai,
Speaker 3: how much has he had to weigh in here and
Speaker 3: decide what the outcome is.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it absolutely is a shift in tone. For so long, really,
Speaker 6: the founding culture of Google has been, you know, to
Speaker 6: foster this sense of open debate and employees are encouraged
Speaker 6: to speak out about anything really having to do with
Speaker 6: their work. Those were in the early days, but then
Speaker 6: over the years employees have really started to ban together
Speaker 6: over important social issues. You know, in twenty eighteen or so,
Speaker 6: there was organizing around sexual harassment allegations from leadership at
Speaker 6: the company and sort of the way that they wanted
Speaker 6: women to be able to speak out about their experiences,
Speaker 6: so there was a walkout from employees around that issue,
Speaker 6: and other issues have also galvanized these employees, you know,
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty, with the killing of George Floyd and
Speaker 6: organizing around the Black Lives Matter protests, that was another issue.
Speaker 6: But this really has emerged as a particularly sensitive point
Speaker 6: for Google, this particular issue with Israel, and the company
Speaker 6: appears to be sending a message that they aren't going
Speaker 6: to tolerate this kind of workplace activism anymore.
Speaker 4: Davey, you talked about how that the workforce has been galvanized.
Speaker 4: You note in the final paragraph of your report that
Speaker 4: despite the response from Google, many employees feel that they're
Speaker 4: getting support. Is that happening contemporary eraneously and is there
Speaker 4: any sense that these strikes or sit ins will continue
Speaker 4: or if this is the end of it now? It's
Speaker 4: hard to say.
Speaker 6: Google sent a very strongly worded message to all employees,
Speaker 6: essentially saying this is not this is not something they
Speaker 6: will tolerate, that it is against company policy. At the
Speaker 6: same time, you know, we've heard from employees who have
Speaker 6: been keeping an eye on the internal messaging that's been
Speaker 6: happening at the company, and several people are actually quite
Speaker 6: upset by this move from the company, and maybe it'll
Speaker 6: take a while for them to do another action, but
Speaker 6: it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Speaker 1: This could continue on for many more months.
Speaker 4: We showed Google's full response and communication at the top
Speaker 4: of the segment, and you can go and read Davey
Speaker 4: and Julia's story and see it in Writing for Yourself
Speaker 4: on bloomberg dot com. Bloomberg's Davy outur thank you harnessing
Speaker 4: the power of AI to keep AI software safe from attack.
Speaker 4: That's the promise of Cisco's latest product, Hypershield. I want
Speaker 4: to go straight to Cisco's exiti Vice president and general
Speaker 4: manager of Security and Collaboration G two Patel. This is
Speaker 4: classic Cisco, right. You want to do more on services
Speaker 4: and software, but just explain the technology you're going to use.
Speaker 4: AI is the defense tool against an attack on AI infrastructure.
Speaker 7: Well, security is actually one of the most pressing issues
Speaker 7: of our time, and AI is actually being weaponized quite
Speaker 7: a bit by malicious actors, so it only makes sense
Speaker 7: for us to also use AI effectively to provide machine
Speaker 7: scale defenses to organizations.
Speaker 2: So we launched what I.
Speaker 7: Would call probably one of the most consequential innovations in
Speaker 7: the history of Cisco in the area of cybersecurity in
Speaker 7: the past forty years, and it's called Cisco Hypershield. And
Speaker 7: our goal over there is to fundamentally re imagine security
Speaker 7: for this AI world web at AI scale, because it's
Speaker 7: very hard to go out and handle these threats at
Speaker 7: human scale GJU.
Speaker 3: It's been interesting because time and time again people have
Speaker 3: come on saying, look, with AI as the aggressor, we
Speaker 3: can also use AI as the protector. You really talk
Speaker 3: about this being a radically new approach. How is it radical?
Speaker 3: How is it that new from what's already.
Speaker 1: On the market.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's important because you need to make
Speaker 7: sure that there's a certain set of building blocks that
Speaker 7: are built on top of which you can build these solutions.
Speaker 7: And we now have some very advanced technologies around hardware acceleration,
Speaker 7: around AI that can allow us to build these very
Speaker 7: sophisticated capabilities.
Speaker 2: There's many examples.
Speaker 7: I'll give you one particular one the amount of time
Speaker 7: that it takes from when a vulnerability is announced in
Speaker 7: the market, two when an exploit happens by malicious actors
Speaker 7: is now down to single digit days, and I think
Speaker 7: I wouldn't be surprised if it goes down to hours
Speaker 7: or minutes in the next few in the near future.
Speaker 7: And so what we've done is we've actually seen that
Speaker 7: the amount of time it takes to patch that infrastructure
Speaker 7: is actually still twenty two to forty five days.
Speaker 2: So you've got this massive.
Speaker 7: Gap from when an exploit happens and how long it
Speaker 7: takes to patch the infrastructure.
Speaker 2: We've solved that problem because what.
Speaker 7: We can do now is within minutes, have a shield
Speaker 7: that can put in front of infrastructructure that has not
Speaker 7: been updated, that has not been patched, so that you
Speaker 7: can protect the organization from critical infrastructure attacks that might
Speaker 7: happen to hospitals or financial services organizations and so on.
Speaker 4: You talk u about the building blocks, what we're talking
Speaker 4: about is data centers, rows and rows of service stacks.
Speaker 4: And we know that that infrastructure build out is happening.
Speaker 4: It's happened, and the spend is committed for more of it,
Speaker 4: is the spend committed to hypershield? Is anyone actually buying
Speaker 4: this service from you in parallel with that infrastructure build out?
Speaker 7: Well, This was the first day that we announced it
Speaker 7: to our customers. We had about we had many of
Speaker 7: the leading chief information security officers over here in the
Speaker 7: UK where we announced this product, and the most common
Speaker 7: phrase that I heard was this is completely game changing.
Speaker 7: And in fact, one of the customers told me I'd
Speaker 7: like to have two and so I think if you
Speaker 7: care about cybersecurity and if you care about your critical
Speaker 7: infrastructure being protected, it's going to be very obvious for
Speaker 7: you to make sure that you can allocate some focus
Speaker 7: on something like Cisco hypershield. And the reality is is
Speaker 7: this is the only one in the market. There's no
Speaker 7: one else who quite handles the problem the way that
Speaker 7: we are over here.
Speaker 3: Of course, all of this is surrounding the partnership and
Speaker 3: increasing partnership that you've been talking through with in Video.
Speaker 1: How integral is in Video's practice beIN within this.
Speaker 7: And the way that we think about this is you
Speaker 7: have to work with the ecosystem at large rather than
Speaker 7: being completely kind of a wall garden. So and Video
Speaker 7: is a very important player in AI, and we want
Speaker 7: to make sure that we partner with them so that
Speaker 7: we can build security specific models. We actually take our
Speaker 7: technology and optimize it for their GPUs and so we
Speaker 7: will continue to work with Nvideo and others in video.
Speaker 7: We've enjoyed a great partnership with them already and this
Speaker 7: one just extends that further.
Speaker 3: GD what in video offers is expensive, and everyone's been
Speaker 3: talking about the rush to harness chips, to harness energy,
Speaker 3: the expense that's coming in this new world of general
Speaker 3: to aire.
Speaker 1: How expensive?
Speaker 3: What can you price point your new AI cybersecurity prevention.
Speaker 7: App So the way that we are going to go
Speaker 7: out and price this is by workload. We haven't announced
Speaker 7: the exact pricing yet. This is going to be general
Speaker 7: availability around the August timeframe, and so between now and
Speaker 7: August we will make sure that we actually have more
Speaker 7: information on pricing. But our philosophy is the price for
Speaker 7: mass market, right. We want to make sure that we
Speaker 7: have high unit volume so we can get to many,
Speaker 7: many customers within a very quick amount of time.
Speaker 4: So you see, there is a human safety net element
Speaker 4: of this. You're not handing over complete control to the
Speaker 4: defense of critical infrastructure. Just explain the safety net.
Speaker 7: The way I think about this is humans are always
Speaker 7: apprehensive of something automated taking over and so remember the
Speaker 7: day's ed when you actually had to update your iPhone
Speaker 7: and you would actually back it up three times before
Speaker 7: you started updating it. Now you don't worry about it
Speaker 7: because there's that trust that gets built over time. And
Speaker 7: so what we've done is we've actually made sure that
Speaker 7: customers have the option of having a human in the loop,
Speaker 7: so if you do want to auto update your systems,
Speaker 7: that you actually have the ability to make sure that
Speaker 7: that can be approved by you and it doesn't happen automatically,
Speaker 7: but when you feel comfortable, you have the option of
Speaker 7: having that be completely transparent to you so that you
Speaker 7: can then start focusing on higher order bid items.
Speaker 4: Tit. You've used the word customers a lot. We just
Speaker 4: have thirty seconds, but just explain who the market is here.
Speaker 4: The users you're selling to.
Speaker 2: Our market is.
Speaker 7: Every large organization, mid sized organization and small organization that's
Speaker 7: interested in making sure that they can protect the data
Speaker 7: centers from attacks from a cybersecurity standpoint at aiscale.
Speaker 4: G two.
Speaker 3: So great to spend some time with you live from
Speaker 3: your garage.
Speaker 1: We joke you're actually at the McLaren Center over in
Speaker 1: the UK. We've got some nice parts in the background.
Speaker 3: So is Goo Executive vice president and general manager of
Speaker 3: Security and Collaboration Cheta Fintel.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the day of the announcement.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed Ludlow here in San
Speaker 4: Francisco and.
Speaker 1: Karen Hyder in New York.
Speaker 3: Let's get you a quick check on these markets because actually,
Speaker 3: well still the economic data comes strong.
Speaker 1: Ah, there you are, Joel. Nice to see you, our for.
Speaker 3: Mour manager, just shining a light on some of our
Speaker 3: market check. I want to go back though to the
Speaker 3: macro for a moment, because before we get into the
Speaker 3: individual names, I want to shine light the fact that
Speaker 3: we have been seeing overall the Nasdaq on the higher
Speaker 3: side of things, are up about five tens aer percent
Speaker 3: of there or thereabouts. We've also seen, of course, an
Speaker 3: introduction to the bomb market just selling a little bit.
Speaker 3: We seeing a bit of a sell off. We seem
Speaker 3: to be wanting to commit to some of the individual
Speaker 3: names that are on the move today. So I'm going
Speaker 3: to shine a light on Netflix earnings coming thick and
Speaker 3: fast after the bell, up six tens of a percent.
Speaker 3: We're expecting about a fourteen percent increase in revenue for
Speaker 3: its fiscal first quarter. Netflix juggernaut faces a high barbow
Speaker 3: after one hundred and twelve billion dollar rally. We've got
Speaker 3: emphasis on the downside after its numbers. Of course, Indian
Speaker 3: key player in the technology space, actually underwhelming when it
Speaker 3: came to overall revenues. We're looking at MicroStrategy up more
Speaker 3: than six percent, some of the individual crypto names doing
Speaker 3: well ed Why because crypto is bouncing on the day
Speaker 3: at least, although we see and of course some profit
Speaker 3: taking of late.
Speaker 4: All right, let's keep the conversation going around cryptso and
Speaker 4: bringing Thomas Perfumo crack in head of strategy to mass.
Speaker 4: I have been invited to not one, but two bitcoin
Speaker 4: harving parties tonight. Whether I go to either of them
Speaker 4: remains to be seen. But it got me thinking that
Speaker 4: for many this is something that is interesting to be celebrated,
Speaker 4: you know, it's coming in the calendar. For others they
Speaker 4: focus on the supply mechanics of what it does to
Speaker 4: the market. Where do you focus your attentions?
Speaker 8: So for me, I think of the takeaways for the
Speaker 8: bitcoin having and falling into two different spectrums. Firstly, it
Speaker 8: underpins why we believe bitcoin is the soundest form of money.
Speaker 8: There's a whole host of reasons why on the demand
Speaker 8: side of teams like global liquidity, twenty four seven, three
Speaker 8: sixty five, market access, permission, permission lists and so ship resistant,
Speaker 8: like all these nice qualities for why bitcoin served as
Speaker 8: a good form of money. But on the supply side,
Speaker 8: you know, how reliably can you plan around a currency
Speaker 8: and bitcoin because of the having, you know that there's
Speaker 8: only ever going to be twenty one million bitcoin in existence,
Speaker 8: and so on. The second part of the takeaway here
Speaker 8: is that this Bitcoin having in particular, you know, we
Speaker 8: celebrated every roughly four years, but this one is the
Speaker 8: most symbolic, in my opinion, in bitcoin's history and even
Speaker 8: looking forward, because at a time when you have people
Speaker 8: who are looking at their conventional currencies, inflation, interest rates,
Speaker 8: and the economic environment that they live in, they see
Speaker 8: this alternative form of currency, Bitcoin, and it's something that
Speaker 8: has this really crisp story, this idea that as of tomorrow,
Speaker 8: when the having takes place, ninety four percent of all
Speaker 8: bitcoins that will ever exist will have been mined, and
Speaker 8: less than one percent. We'll see less than one percent
Speaker 8: inflation in the circulating supply of bitcoin going forward, so
Speaker 8: that's a really powerful story I think for people, yes,
Speaker 8: and why they're having is so.
Speaker 4: Important tom Us, there will be a big section of
Speaker 4: our audience watching thinking what has this got to do
Speaker 4: with me? Is there a chance that they wake up
Speaker 4: in global financial markets? The world has been changed by
Speaker 4: this harving.
Speaker 8: No, the having in of itself isn't going to be
Speaker 8: a cataclysmic event. We're not talking about a raptor here.
Speaker 8: But what it is doing is it's reinforcing the narrative
Speaker 8: of bitcoin as sound money, and in our opinion, the
Speaker 8: adoption of bitcoin and of crypto takes time. This is
Speaker 8: something that is a very innovative technology. It's very different
Speaker 8: from how people use money today. And so this is
Speaker 8: something that's going to take place over five, ten years,
Speaker 8: twenty years, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And you're going to think of it as.
Speaker 8: Almost like a change in culture and a change in
Speaker 8: understanding of how people transact with one another. And so
Speaker 8: when we think about this having in particular, nothing super special,
Speaker 8: but again like an important milestone, particularly in this time
Speaker 8: and age, and we love to celebrate it.
Speaker 3: Thomas, I want to get a glimpse of what you're
Speaker 3: seeing in this unique position over at kracken at the moment.
Speaker 3: Because yes, the reason many have said that this harving
Speaker 3: is unprecedented is because where crypto has been priced at before,
Speaker 3: where Bitcoin has been at all time highs, that hasn't
Speaker 3: happened before in the other times.
Speaker 1: But there has been money taken off the table of late.
Speaker 3: Why has there been new money just trying to resettle
Speaker 3: when we have this risk occurrence, we've had geopolitical tensions,
Speaker 3: Why do we suddenly see such a fallen price.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there's definitely a lot of volatility when it
Speaker 8: comes to bitcoin in general. I wouldn't say that we've
Speaker 8: reached any kind of peaks. So historically, if we look
Speaker 8: at prior all time highs, we start to see these
Speaker 8: massive sessions of all time highs, so like fifteen twenty
Speaker 8: all time highs within a single month on a day
Speaker 8: to day basis, and that's when you see in the
Speaker 8: volatility peak to one hundred percent or so. With bitcoin,
Speaker 8: we've only seen a handful of all time highs in
Speaker 8: the last month. It is a little bit of head
Speaker 8: of schedule versus the other three having events we've seen,
Speaker 8: but nothing crazier out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2: Yet, what I like to.
Speaker 8: Think about when it comes to the price action, is
Speaker 8: it's a momentous occasion. You will come in, they see
Speaker 8: the price level, they're like, I want to participate, and
Speaker 8: you get a little bit of that momentum play. But
Speaker 8: we still have a lot of new entrants coming into space.
Speaker 8: The Bitcoin ETF for example, twelve billion dollars a new
Speaker 8: NetFlow coming into the cryptocurrency sector.
Speaker 2: A whole lot of people are.
Speaker 8: Coming in, signing up for accounts and buying bitcoin for
Speaker 8: the first time. So this is just something you have
Speaker 8: to kind of space out over the long term, and
Speaker 8: you're going to have these ups and downs along the way.
Speaker 3: More broadly, how have you been thinking about that new
Speaker 3: inflow into Bitcoin coming into other parts of the crypto ecosystem.
Speaker 3: What's been interesting is perhaps and the other old coins,
Speaker 3: we've just seen a churn a movement within it, rather
Speaker 3: than perhaps money coming into Bitcoin and then going, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm going to play in their worlds of Salona. Now,
Speaker 3: what do you think about that movement coming from Bitcoin
Speaker 3: eight into the other or coins.
Speaker 8: Yeah, these rotations ebb and flow, and it depends on
Speaker 8: the trend at the time. And so when we see
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty For example, we had that momentous occasion
Speaker 8: called de five Summers, so everyone was going and playing
Speaker 8: around with ethereum tokens, and the reason was because you
Speaker 8: had the maturation of those applications that had been invested
Speaker 8: in back in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, so they were launching.
Speaker 8: You started to see the application and the network FECs
Speaker 8: built up from there, and then that led into rotation
Speaker 8: into bitcoin, etc. Here we have the having event, the
Speaker 8: US Bitcoin etf as the catalysts for people getting interested
Speaker 8: in so bitcoin comes first.
Speaker 2: As far as other alternative.
Speaker 8: Currencies, whether they're tokens or other layer ones like solana ethereum.
Speaker 8: A lot of that's driven by whatever application exists that
Speaker 8: people are starting to really adopt early on. And one
Speaker 8: of the interesting things, in my opinion, is that the
Speaker 8: last cycle back in twenty one, you had tens of
Speaker 8: billions of dollars come into the space to develop new
Speaker 8: projects and whatnot. We're talking at this point about three
Speaker 8: years of maturation, and so that investment cycle, we kind
Speaker 8: of have these dark horses. We don't know exactly what
Speaker 8: application is going to come out, but we're really excited
Speaker 8: about it, and some stuff that's proliferating right now would
Speaker 8: be things around like GameFi in the crypto space. So
Speaker 8: we'll have to see from bitcoin where it goes come back.
Speaker 3: It's been too too long time us for FuMO of
Speaker 3: Atkrack and he's head a strategy.
Speaker 1: We thank him for talking all things crypto with us.
Speaker 3: Now let's talk all things IPOs because we've started to
Speaker 3: get a few more. The CEO of I Bought A,
Speaker 3: Brian Leach, is joining us straight from the New York
Speaker 3: Stock Exchange.
Speaker 1: Why have you decided that.
Speaker 3: For your business model, which is all about giving cash
Speaker 3: back rewards when you're purchasing groceries, maybe even your gas,
Speaker 3: Why is it now the time to show your technology
Speaker 3: solution on the public markets?
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 9: We think it's the perfect time because our mission is
Speaker 9: make every purchase rewarding. Sixty percent of Americans are living
Speaker 9: paycheck to paycheck, Seventy five percent are financially insecure. We've
Speaker 9: given away one point eight billion dollars to help people
Speaker 9: make those ends meet.
Speaker 2: We've also gotten.
Speaker 9: To a point in our company where we've built out
Speaker 9: a large network and are beginning to see those network effects.
Speaker 2: We've had six straight quarters where.
Speaker 9: We've been profitable on an adjusted ebit our basis cash
Speaker 9: flow positive, net income positive, so we feel it's a
Speaker 9: great time to come to the markets, raise some money,
Speaker 9: and invest even more in our platform.
Speaker 4: One of our social media editors, DM Martine, poses a
Speaker 4: big picture question for you around extreme couponing. She is
Speaker 4: a self confessed I bought a user. Is that a
Speaker 4: story you're telling the street that it made economic difficulty
Speaker 4: or how consumers behave extreme couponing's coming back.
Speaker 9: It's true that there are certain people who we like
Speaker 9: to think of as professional savers head on our platform.
Speaker 9: Our direct to consumer app has fifty million registered users,
Speaker 9: many of them are proud extreme savers.
Speaker 2: However, it's also important to note.
Speaker 9: That we power the first ever manufacturer offer cash back
Speaker 9: program for Walmart, for Dollar General, for Family Dollar, for Kroger,
Speaker 9: and these are much more everyday purchases occurring from people
Speaker 9: with a lot broader type of background, not all of
Speaker 9: whom are shopping to the sale. They're encountering these offers
Speaker 9: as they're searching for products online, as they're building a basket,
Speaker 9: and we're able to move markets for the largest brands
Speaker 9: in the world. So it's a combination. But I do
Speaker 9: think that in environments that are like this one inflationary
Speaker 9: as well as every day environments, it's always something that's relevant.
Speaker 9: You know, people shop for groceries one point six times
Speaker 9: a week. Eighty seven percent of Americans use at least
Speaker 9: one coupon a year on their groceries, so it's not
Speaker 9: a discretionary category and it's relevant in all climates.
Speaker 3: You took a risk coming to the market at this moment,
Speaker 3: and it looks like it's going to be paying off.
Speaker 3: Your shares indicated at one hundred and seven hundred and
Speaker 3: twelve being reported at the moment.
Speaker 1: You priced at eighty eight.
Speaker 3: So having marketed below that, there's been real interest in
Speaker 3: your company.
Speaker 1: Tell us the marketing pitch now.
Speaker 3: Because you are very integral within a relationship to Walmart,
Speaker 3: can you therefore get other big grocery stage practitioners on board.
Speaker 3: Can you white label for others out there at the moment?
Speaker 9: Absolutely, Caroline, We've already begun to build a network with
Speaker 9: Walmart at the center. They are strategic investors in Ibada,
Speaker 9: but we also have Kroger Dollar, General Family, Dollar, Exxon
Speaker 9: Shell and app Card, which represents over three hundred other
Speaker 9: grocery retailers using our network to pull in rewards content on.
Speaker 2: A white label basis.
Speaker 9: We think that that's going to be a very broad
Speaker 9: and attractive network, and it's really a network effect business.
Speaker 9: The more of these publishers sign up, the more we're
Speaker 9: able to attract advertisers to bring offers in, the more
Speaker 9: we're able to fulfill our mission on behalf of the
Speaker 9: end consumer, which is to make every purchase rewarding.
Speaker 4: Brian, what's the Ibada AI story.
Speaker 2: That's right?
Speaker 9: AI is critical to the future of Ibada. We are
Speaker 9: really helping to create a next generation platform for what
Speaker 9: we call performance marketing, meaning we don't charge for impressions
Speaker 9: and clicks. We only get paid when our clients sell
Speaker 9: a product. They want to put the right offer with
Speaker 9: the right amount in front of the right consumer at
Speaker 9: the right time. Gone are the days of your grandmother's coupon.
Speaker 9: This is not a one size fits all solution. The
Speaker 9: level of sophistication we have is because forty five percent
Speaker 9: of our eight hundred employees are technologists and we've been
Speaker 9: doing AI for years, using it to find personalization algorithms,
Speaker 9: machine learning, and we'll continue to invest.
Speaker 3: In that ED, we want to be thank you. I
Speaker 3: bought a CEO Ran Leach, thank you so much. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: coming up, well, we're going to be talking to a company, ED.
Speaker 3: Who are we gonna be speaking with?
Speaker 4: The Maving Clinic CEO Kate Ryder. Big expansion on a
Speaker 4: fertility program, really impoort New York City conversation is coming
Speaker 4: up next Carriage and stock Marketing news.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a company that you know we're just
Speaker 3: talking about IPOs. There one that opod not long ago,
Speaker 3: not more than a few years ago, is thinking about
Speaker 3: actually going private twenty three and meters speaking with Jaki
Speaker 3: of course, the woman behind this business that more than
Speaker 3: almost fifty percent reports that look, she's not liking it
Speaker 3: being undervalued in the public markets.
Speaker 1: We see a pop on the idea that it might
Speaker 1: be taking private. This is Groom Meg.
Speaker 3: Technology, New York Tech Unicorn Maven Clinic, it's the largest
Speaker 3: virtual clinic for women and family health announced that there's
Speaker 3: expanding it's award winning fertility and family building program. The company,
Speaker 3: which is founded back in twenty fourteen, it's raised three
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars. They're about investors including General Catalyst, Sequoya
Speaker 3: Looks Capital, to name but a few, and well peace
Speaker 3: to welcome to the show. Mavin Clinic founder and CEO
Speaker 3: Kate Ryder for more and Kate, You've got more than
Speaker 3: two thousand clients using your product, and I want to
Speaker 3: understand when you go to them and say, this is
Speaker 3: the benefit that you're going to garner by offering this,
Speaker 3: what is it?
Speaker 10: Well, you know, clients right now are really interested in
Speaker 10: supporting their working families, and so I think it's been
Speaker 10: you know, COVID was certainly a moment where working families
Speaker 10: were really stretched. And I think in general, women's health,
Speaker 10: whether it's fertility, whether it's pregnancy, menopause, is just an
Speaker 10: area that has been so underfunded, underserved from an experience standpoint,
Speaker 10: that employers really lean in to support these journeys.
Speaker 1: And so they can do that with MEMN so.
Speaker 3: They can understand that they get talent talent acquisition to
Speaker 3: have retention of gen z and millennial. But already statistics
Speaker 3: you give clients like this is the return on investment
Speaker 3: you get when bringing in Mayven Clinic.
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, I mean fertility and maternity as a bundle
Speaker 10: are often one of the top health care costs that
Speaker 10: employers face and so with us, we're a triple bottom
Speaker 10: line business. Number One, we can reduce costs and one
Speaker 10: of the most costly areas of healthcare. Number two, we
Speaker 10: can help attract and retain some of the most important talent.
Speaker 10: I mean, forty five percent of workers say that they
Speaker 10: really look for the fertility benefits and family building benefits
Speaker 10: at companies today to see how they're going to be
Speaker 10: cared for. And number three, from an equity lens and
Speaker 10: a health equity lens, you know, employers can really lean
Speaker 10: in here and solve some of I think our healthcare
Speaker 10: system's biggest challenges when it comes to supporting you know,
Speaker 10: women and families on these journeys.
Speaker 3: Challenges being where do I get this sort of advice?
Speaker 3: How do I get it for both men and women?
Speaker 3: And indeed, how do I get the right, truthful, right
Speaker 3: advice The business that you'll building, I mean, Boyce is
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: We have been through some different economic environments. How is
Speaker 1: it going.
Speaker 3: How you seeing adoption in the US and indeed from
Speaker 3: international businesses.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, we grew our revenue to ninety five percent
Speaker 10: last year, and so even though it was a year
Speaker 10: where I think there was a lot of uncertainty about
Speaker 10: the macroeconomy. This is still an area where employers and
Speaker 10: health plans are really leaning in because again there's just
Speaker 10: so much catch up to do. Twelve percent of our
Speaker 10: member base is international, and so that's another big area
Speaker 10: that we're seeing continued growth in. You know, the a
Speaker 10: multinational is looking to bring again that equitable lens to
Speaker 10: family building and across the world. It's you know, that's
Speaker 10: really different whether you're in a public system, what the
Speaker 10: regulations are, and so how do you how do you
Speaker 10: bring that same access to everybody? And so you know,
Speaker 10: we work, we were we were we were talking with
Speaker 10: our client Amazon about our global family building benefit with
Speaker 10: them and our partnership over the summer, and so we
Speaker 10: work with a lot of companies like that.
Speaker 3: Having birthed in the UK and the US, I can
Speaker 3: attest the slightly different talking about your business stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, we just had a border on they've just gone public.
Speaker 1: How much all the.
Speaker 3: Companies that are invested in you, the VS see saying
Speaker 3: hey you ordering so what with a ninety five percent
Speaker 3: increase in revenue last year that you were able to say, look,
Speaker 3: we're almost profitable, we should be going.
Speaker 10: Public or you're like, no, no, wait, wait this up, well
Speaker 10: not this year, but you know, I think that it's
Speaker 10: certainly where we would like to end up. You know,
Speaker 10: for us, we're really lucky to have a board that
Speaker 10: really sees the long term and so we're certainly headed
Speaker 10: in that direction. But I think we there's just there's
Speaker 10: a lot of products we're still launching at the moment,
Speaker 10: and you know, the markets are different these days than
Speaker 10: they were three years ago, and so we would you know,
Speaker 10: we're holding ourselves to a very high standard so for
Speaker 10: when we get to the public markets will continue to
Speaker 10: grow versus I think what's happened in the past with
Speaker 10: some companies where after the six month b lockup ends,
Speaker 10: you know, the share price kind of falls.
Speaker 1: And what about competition?
Speaker 10: Competition? I mean, honestly, our biggest competition is still the
Speaker 10: status quo.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 10: There there it's hard to change a build a category
Speaker 10: and change mindset and you know, that's what we've been
Speaker 10: working on for ten years. And I feel like five
Speaker 10: percent and run the way into the product romot. But
Speaker 10: but yeah, I would say satus Quo is the biggest,
Speaker 10: the biggest challenge, and it's something that you know as
Speaker 10: we continue to see more brand awareness and more celebrities
Speaker 10: and more member stories around why fertility benefits matter, why menopause, pregnancy, pediatrics.
Speaker 10: You know that that's that's that's really helpful.
Speaker 1: It takes a while.
Speaker 3: It's just shift a mindset. We thank you for coming
Speaker 3: on talking all about it. As new products get rolled out,
Speaker 3: name in clinic founder and CEO, Kate Rider, we thank her.
Speaker 1: Congress it's on fast track.
Speaker 3: To approve a bill aimed at forcing TikTok's Chinese parent
Speaker 3: that's White Dance to divest it's controversial ownership stake or indeed,
Speaker 3: you know, we'll have to see an exit of the business.
Speaker 3: Let's bring in Bloomberg's Alex Brunker for all the details. Now,
Speaker 3: this suddenly injects new life into this conversation we're having
Speaker 3: a lot a month or so ago. The how is
Speaker 3: looking at fast tracking it by tying it to well
Speaker 3: relief or money towards Ukraine and indeed towards Israel.
Speaker 1: Correct, that's exactly right.
Speaker 11: We had a prior bill that did basically the same
Speaker 11: thing that this one looks to do pass in the
Speaker 11: House already. It ran into some pushback from senators who
Speaker 11: thought that the timeline for divestiture was too short.
Speaker 1: So what House Speaker.
Speaker 11: Mike Johnson has done is basically put this in a
Speaker 11: wrapper with really key items like aid for Ukraine and
Speaker 11: aid for Israel, things that appeal to both sides of
Speaker 11: the aisle, and made some of those changes. They've extended
Speaker 11: the deliberation period for a divestiture to kind of satiate
Speaker 11: some of the concerns from key senators.
Speaker 1: So we do.
Speaker 11: Expect this to be voted on on Saturday. We do
Speaker 11: believe that this will pass the House again in this
Speaker 11: wrapper of bills, and in a very DC fashion the
Speaker 11: Senate and Joe Biden said they would both quickly take
Speaker 11: this effort up if it passes the House on Saturday.
Speaker 4: I think there's just still so many questions how this
Speaker 4: would work, whether it's next month, next year. You make
Speaker 4: a really interesting observation in your Tech Daily that the
Speaker 4: concern is Chinese interference, which is you write, is largely
Speaker 4: hypothetical at this point. So TikTok's face with a divest
Speaker 4: or ban. You and I reported last month of the
Speaker 4: month before that the company's position is we're just not
Speaker 4: going to do it.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 11: They will push for legal challenges before this becomes a
Speaker 11: divestiture situation. Byte Dan certainly does not want to actually
Speaker 11: carve out this really valuable asset, and I do expect
Speaker 11: that in that year long almost a year that they
Speaker 11: would have to fight this or figure out some kind
Speaker 11: of separation, they will be fighting tooth and nail. We've
Speaker 11: heard from the company that they plan on leaning into
Speaker 11: a First Amendment argument. I'm sure that both them and
Speaker 11: their supporters will be picking apart the specific language of
Speaker 11: the bill because ed as we wrote back then, this
Speaker 11: still remains a really unprecedented situation to have such a
Speaker 11: large consumer tech company actually forced to separate from its
Speaker 11: owner by any country, particularly the US, where the social
Speaker 11: media industry kind of has its home.
Speaker 4: In TikTok's competitors, and what if there's a ban. You
Speaker 4: cite some data for the Center for Economic Policy Research
Speaker 4: that you'd literally have to pay college students, as an example,
Speaker 4: to delete the app from their phone.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 11: They say fifty nine dollars a month or over seven
Speaker 11: hundred dollars a year is what you'd have to pay them.
Speaker 11: That's no small dollar amount for a college student.
Speaker 1: But this ban is actually.
Speaker 11: Not going to be paying its users to relinquish TikTok.
Speaker 11: It's almost a payment in kind. Congress is saying we'll
Speaker 11: protect you from this kind of invisible existential threat of
Speaker 11: China and their potential influence or data hoovering capabilities. So
Speaker 11: I do expect that folks could be pretty upset. But
Speaker 11: with the new deadline, there's an important distinction in timing.
Speaker 11: Had the original bill passed along this same timeframe, had
Speaker 11: sent it, passed the bill and Biden signed it into law,
Speaker 11: that deadline for a divestiture would have come right around
Speaker 11: the election. With this extension and timing, this actually pushes
Speaker 11: that decision into the next presidential administration past the election.
Speaker 11: And I'm sure that politicians don't want to be making
Speaker 11: the argument right around election day to their important young
Speaker 11: constituents why they shouldn't be, you know, looked at negatively
Speaker 11: if they in fact voted to pass this bill.
Speaker 3: Alex Brunke bringing it to us and in her Tech Daily,
Speaker 3: go read it.
Speaker 1: We thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, that does it for this incredibly busy edition of
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Technology Yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, lots of recap in the podcast. You know where
Speaker 4: to find it. On the Bloomberg platforms, as well as
Speaker 4: on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart. From New York City and
Speaker 4: San Francisco, this is Bloomberg technology.