WEBVTT - "I Don't Feel Like a Boy, I Am a Boy" 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:33.116 Pushkin m and so I picked Penelope up, basically picked 0:00:33.156 --> 0:00:36.556 myself up, and moved moved us into Penelope's room. When 0:00:36.556 --> 0:00:39.116 we sat on the floor cross legged, and I looked 0:00:39.116 --> 0:00:45.796 into Penelope's eyes and I asked this question, what's really wrong, baby? 0:00:46.476 --> 0:00:53.596 Why are you so angry? Just that? What's wrong? And 0:00:53.636 --> 0:00:56.276 why are you so angry? And it was it was 0:00:56.276 --> 0:01:00.996 a million dollar question. Penelope opened up in a way 0:01:01.036 --> 0:01:06.316 I'd not seen ever, eyes filled with tears, and Penelope 0:01:06.396 --> 0:01:14.556 said the most like phenomenal words I'd never even considered. Mama. 0:01:14.996 --> 0:01:19.036 Everyone thinks I'm a girl, and I'm not. I am 0:01:19.116 --> 0:01:23.156 a boy. Jody Patterson remembers sitting there on the ground 0:01:23.196 --> 0:01:25.956 with Penelope, who was just shy if three years old 0:01:25.956 --> 0:01:29.476 at the time. Jody was filled with a mix of emotions, 0:01:30.076 --> 0:01:33.276 grateful that her child felt comfortable sharing his true gender 0:01:33.316 --> 0:01:36.476 identity with her, but also fearful of all the unknowns 0:01:36.476 --> 0:01:39.956 and changes that lay ahead for her son. What Jody 0:01:40.036 --> 0:01:43.596 didn't anticipate, however, were the changes she would undergo as well. 0:01:44.876 --> 0:01:48.636 If my daughter was actually my son, what else in 0:01:48.636 --> 0:01:52.636 the world don't I know? It felt like there's a 0:01:52.636 --> 0:01:54.836 lot that I had not learned and so I went 0:01:54.836 --> 0:01:57.996 on to quest to learn more, and that learning not 0:01:58.116 --> 0:02:00.196 only gave me insight to my son and to the 0:02:00.316 --> 0:02:04.716 millions of trans people that exist, but also to myself. 0:02:08.596 --> 0:02:12.276 On Today Show, a mother discovers herself after her son 0:02:12.396 --> 0:02:16.716 shows her how I'm maya Shunker and this is a 0:02:16.756 --> 0:02:19.476 slight change of plans, A show about who we are 0:02:19.556 --> 0:02:31.036 and who we become in the face of a big change. 0:02:36.116 --> 0:02:38.796 Jody Patterson grew up on New York's Upper West Side 0:02:38.836 --> 0:02:42.596 in a family of black activists. Doctor Martin Luther King 0:02:42.676 --> 0:02:46.556 Junior named Jody's grandmother Miss Revolution for her work in 0:02:46.596 --> 0:02:51.036 the segregated South. Jody's uncle was a legendary poet and musician, 0:02:51.196 --> 0:02:54.796 Gil Scott Heron. Her father started the first black brokerage 0:02:54.836 --> 0:02:57.636 firm on Wall Street, and her mother opened a private 0:02:57.676 --> 0:03:01.836 school for black families in Harlem. Jody was surrounded from 0:03:01.836 --> 0:03:05.036 an early age by people who pushed against the status quo, 0:03:05.396 --> 0:03:07.636 and she was eager to pass that ethos on to 0:03:07.796 --> 0:03:12.956 her own children. Today, Jodie's mom to five kids, but 0:03:13.036 --> 0:03:15.716 we started our conversation by talking about what life was 0:03:15.756 --> 0:03:19.196 like for her. Just before Penelope, who now goes by Pinell, 0:03:19.636 --> 0:03:23.236 arrived on the scene. Jodie had two little kids already, 0:03:23.436 --> 0:03:26.196 a boy and a girl, and on paper, at least, 0:03:26.236 --> 0:03:28.356 her life was filling up with all of the things 0:03:28.356 --> 0:03:31.116 she had hoped for. We were living in the heart 0:03:31.156 --> 0:03:33.236 of New York City, in the Soho right the heart 0:03:33.236 --> 0:03:36.036 of the heart of the world. We had a lot 0:03:36.076 --> 0:03:39.996 of resources, a lot of love, we had beautiful home, 0:03:40.796 --> 0:03:47.276 We traveled a lot, and at the same time it 0:03:47.316 --> 0:03:51.476 was a really confusing time, really confusing time for me. 0:03:51.516 --> 0:03:56.116 I didn't know enough, not nearly enough. Yeah, what did 0:03:56.116 --> 0:04:00.676 you feel you didn't know enough about? Probably myself. I 0:04:00.716 --> 0:04:09.676 was still feeling unaccomplished, unsure, not quite satiated, like there 0:04:09.756 --> 0:04:13.436 was just a want for more and I couldn't put 0:04:13.436 --> 0:04:17.876 my hand on it. It definitely was not lack of love, 0:04:19.676 --> 0:04:21.836 but I still couldn't figure out why, with all of 0:04:21.876 --> 0:04:27.916 this stuff that we had beautiful, healthy children, beautiful access 0:04:27.956 --> 0:04:33.156 to the world, beautiful home, why I was feeling not 0:04:33.436 --> 0:04:39.996 quite full. When you first found out that you were 0:04:40.036 --> 0:04:45.196 pregnant with Canell, what dreams did you have for your baby? Well, I, 0:04:46.956 --> 0:04:48.796 from when I was a kid, I always wanted to 0:04:48.836 --> 0:04:51.476 be a mother. The three things I wanted to be 0:04:51.516 --> 0:04:57.036 were a mother, a businesswoman in a suit and a teacher. 0:04:58.076 --> 0:05:00.796 So having children was something that I've always wanted, and 0:05:01.276 --> 0:05:05.596 I was so excited to be pregnant for the third time. 0:05:06.876 --> 0:05:10.516 I was also thinking, Gosh, you're already so blessed, maybe 0:05:11.196 --> 0:05:14.236 maybe there are no more blessings coming. So I was 0:05:14.276 --> 0:05:19.836 fearful that this wouldn't be a perfect baby. Yeah, I know, 0:05:19.876 --> 0:05:22.036 it's one of those things I always think of, how 0:05:22.076 --> 0:05:24.196 can I be blessed again? How can God give me 0:05:24.236 --> 0:05:26.436 one more blessing? And so I'm always I was very 0:05:27.316 --> 0:05:33.196 nervous around that. And then I was excited because I 0:05:33.356 --> 0:05:37.396 really loved the two children I had, and I was 0:05:37.436 --> 0:05:42.716 expecting this one to be just as freaking phenomenal. So 0:05:43.116 --> 0:05:46.276 the biggest feeling was excitement. I would have to say, 0:05:47.316 --> 0:05:50.236 and the doctor tells you that you're having a girl, right, 0:05:50.796 --> 0:05:54.796 do you have any visions of what that would look like? Oh? 0:05:54.876 --> 0:05:58.876 I was so excited. You know, I come from four girls, 0:05:58.996 --> 0:06:00.716 or four of us, so I have three sisters and 0:06:00.916 --> 0:06:04.476 my mom has sisters, and I just love the women 0:06:04.476 --> 0:06:07.236 in our family. I was so excited to have a girl. 0:06:07.396 --> 0:06:11.596 I had all these girl names. Big sister Georgia was excited, 0:06:11.996 --> 0:06:16.156 sort of to have a sister a little jealous, She's like, 0:06:16.196 --> 0:06:20.436 you know, this could ruin my whole princess thing. But 0:06:21.116 --> 0:06:24.276 this just the idea of all the rituals that we 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:26.156 would be doing together. We did a lot of hair 0:06:26.276 --> 0:06:30.236 rituals in my family. We did a lot of quiet 0:06:30.316 --> 0:06:33.116 private time with just the girls and the women in 0:06:33.156 --> 0:06:35.916 my family. We have a lot of auntie celebrations with 0:06:35.996 --> 0:06:42.236 just women. So there was like this real anticipation of 0:06:42.436 --> 0:06:47.716 raising and spending time with and building up another strong, 0:06:48.876 --> 0:06:52.476 confident woman because I think the world needs more of that. 0:06:52.676 --> 0:06:54.796 And so this was like, not only was I going 0:06:54.836 --> 0:06:57.716 to have another blessing in the family, but like another 0:06:57.756 --> 0:07:00.236 gift to the world, Right, That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, 0:07:01.196 --> 0:07:04.996 it wasn't long before you realize that Kennel was different 0:07:05.076 --> 0:07:07.956 from your other kids. When was the first time you 0:07:07.996 --> 0:07:12.116 realize that that's something? So, you know, once we got 0:07:12.156 --> 0:07:17.756 home and brought baby Penelope home, Penelope was just bubbly, 0:07:17.916 --> 0:07:21.676 I mean, tons of smiles. Sometimes we'd you know, panel 0:07:21.716 --> 0:07:25.156 would crawl up onto the dishwasher and like sit inside 0:07:25.156 --> 0:07:29.676 the dishwasher. There was just Penelope was so phenomenal as 0:07:29.716 --> 0:07:32.796 a baby. Everything you would want to see moving and 0:07:33.196 --> 0:07:37.396 physical and smiley and inquisitive even as a little child. 0:07:38.796 --> 0:07:42.316 But I think the first time when I started to 0:07:42.396 --> 0:07:48.156 see that there was a energy and Penell that was 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:53.796 not settled was around the first birthday. You know, you're 0:07:53.796 --> 0:07:55.396 you're trying to learn so much about your kid in 0:07:55.436 --> 0:07:57.596 the beginning, your baby in the beginning. But by birthday 0:07:57.676 --> 0:08:03.316 number one, I knew something was different. You know, Penelope 0:08:03.436 --> 0:08:08.876 was not comfortable with physical touch. So even putting on 0:08:08.916 --> 0:08:12.636 a diaper needed two parents. I'd have to just like 0:08:12.756 --> 0:08:15.116 call in for backup. We'd have to have people hold 0:08:15.276 --> 0:08:18.156 the baby down so that Mama myself could put the 0:08:18.196 --> 0:08:22.276 diaper on. Penelope was not a certain point, became less 0:08:22.276 --> 0:08:28.076 snuggly with me. Penelope would push me away and say, no, Mama, no, 0:08:30.076 --> 0:08:32.796 I'm not talking to you, which mean I'm not talking 0:08:32.876 --> 0:08:37.556 to you. Penelle wanted to be abound big brother and 0:08:37.636 --> 0:08:40.516 dad way more than me, and I was not used 0:08:40.516 --> 0:08:43.116 to that. All my kids are really snuggly with me 0:08:43.156 --> 0:08:47.196 in the beginning, and so Penelope was rejecting mama, rejecting 0:08:47.196 --> 0:08:50.556 mama's touch, And then it became a little bit more 0:08:51.196 --> 0:08:57.476 layered than that. It would be rejecting dresses, rejecting hair brushing, 0:08:57.876 --> 0:09:04.076 rejecting certain shoes, rejecting toothbrushes. Penelope never wanted to use 0:09:04.556 --> 0:09:08.556 Penelope's toothbrush. Penelope wanted to use big brother's toothbrush. Same 0:09:08.596 --> 0:09:13.636 thing with dips, shirts, jeans. So we had this toddler 0:09:13.716 --> 0:09:18.156 running around the house with big brothers clothes draping off 0:09:18.196 --> 0:09:21.556 of baby Penelope, and it was the only those are 0:09:21.596 --> 0:09:23.636 the only things that could make a Penelope happy. There 0:09:23.716 --> 0:09:25.796 was nothing that would see the Penelope more than putting 0:09:25.796 --> 0:09:32.276 on big brothers T shirt. And then eventually, by the 0:09:32.276 --> 0:09:35.516 second year of Penelope was a bully at home and 0:09:35.916 --> 0:09:40.076 at the playground, so pushing siblings around, pushing kids at 0:09:40.076 --> 0:09:44.876 the playground, stomping, screaming. We did a whole year of 0:09:44.916 --> 0:09:52.156 just screaming, screaming, screaming, then reoccurring nightmares the monster's going 0:09:52.236 --> 0:09:56.236 to get me, mama, Then writing fingernails until the fingers 0:09:56.236 --> 0:10:00.756 are bloody. You know, it was sort of it was 0:10:00.796 --> 0:10:06.516 progressing more so than temper tantrum. You know, when you 0:10:06.556 --> 0:10:08.996 have a mother of multiple temper tantrums don't get you, 0:10:09.196 --> 0:10:12.516 they don't frazzle you too much. But this was much 0:10:12.556 --> 0:10:15.636 more than a temperate tantrum. This was a heavy, heavy child. 0:10:16.796 --> 0:10:19.236 So most of that year, that second year was frustrating. 0:10:19.276 --> 0:10:20.836 We couldn't get out of the house. I couldn't get 0:10:20.836 --> 0:10:23.556 to work, I couldn't get the kids to school. I 0:10:23.596 --> 0:10:28.516 was feeling very frustrated with the way I was mothering. 0:10:28.556 --> 0:10:30.636 I couldn't figure it out. Trying to fix it, and 0:10:30.636 --> 0:10:34.796 I couldn't figure it out. Yeah, you were in problem 0:10:34.836 --> 0:10:39.396 solver mode, right, I said, more nap time, more love, 0:10:39.836 --> 0:10:42.476 more hugs and kisses, more story time. I even talk 0:10:42.516 --> 0:10:45.116 out dairy. I said, maybe it's about the diet. Maybe 0:10:45.156 --> 0:10:48.316 this is all just a dairy allergy. Anything that I 0:10:48.316 --> 0:10:50.436 could think of, everything that my mom did that I 0:10:50.436 --> 0:10:54.196 thought was great parenting, everything that my grandmother did that 0:10:54.236 --> 0:10:57.716 I thought was great parenting, and nothing was working. So 0:10:58.636 --> 0:11:02.476 I was I was angry. Yeah, yeah, no, I completely 0:11:02.516 --> 0:11:05.116 understand that, and I would just feel so defeated, you know, 0:11:06.316 --> 0:11:10.396 because you were so experimental with your approaches. At some 0:11:10.436 --> 0:11:14.556 point you realize that while you're able to pacify Penell 0:11:14.596 --> 0:11:18.916 at times and force obedience at other times, there's perhaps 0:11:18.916 --> 0:11:23.476 something deeper going on, because Penell still seems so troubled 0:11:23.836 --> 0:11:27.996 day to day, right, And so there's this one night 0:11:28.156 --> 0:11:32.476 where you decide to engage differently, where you carve out 0:11:32.516 --> 0:11:37.316 some one on one time. It was this summer, the 0:11:37.396 --> 0:11:41.116 end of the summer, and you know, Penelope was just horrendous, 0:11:42.076 --> 0:11:46.796 knocking over things, pushing big brother, screaming, and so I 0:11:46.796 --> 0:11:51.556 picked Penelope up, basically picked myself up, and moved us 0:11:51.556 --> 0:11:54.196 into Penelope's room. When we sat on the floor cross legged, 0:11:54.716 --> 0:11:59.076 and I looked into Penelope's eyes and I asked this question, 0:12:00.116 --> 0:12:07.836 what's really wrong baby? Why are you so angry? Just that? 0:12:08.396 --> 0:12:11.396 What's wrong? Why are you so angry? And it was 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:16.196 it was a million dollar question. Penellope opened up in 0:12:16.236 --> 0:12:19.596 a way I had not seen ever, eyes filled with tears, 0:12:20.476 --> 0:12:27.356 and Penelope said the most like phenomenal words I had 0:12:27.436 --> 0:12:32.636 never even considered. Mama, everyone thinks I'm a girl and 0:12:32.796 --> 0:12:39.316 I'm not. I am a boy. And what was your 0:12:39.316 --> 0:12:46.036 initial response to that? No words? I really thought Penelle 0:12:46.036 --> 0:12:49.716 was gonna say, I hate you, the stupid family. I 0:12:49.916 --> 0:12:54.236 you know, this sucks, something like very typical of a 0:12:54.356 --> 0:12:57.796 three year old, almost three year old. But when Penelope 0:12:57.796 --> 0:13:00.356 said I am not a girl, I'm a boy, Wow, 0:13:00.396 --> 0:13:05.756 I just, you know, kind of stumble the way I'm 0:13:05.756 --> 0:13:07.716 stumbling now. I did not know what that meant. And 0:13:07.756 --> 0:13:10.636 then I quickly try to pull some things out of 0:13:10.316 --> 0:13:15.076 the mother rolodex because I have great mothers to rely on, 0:13:15.156 --> 0:13:20.356 So go into my mother rolodex and I'd think, oh, oh, oh, okay, 0:13:20.556 --> 0:13:24.876 she this is my thought. She is a feminist, she 0:13:25.396 --> 0:13:30.036 is tough, she wants to be seen like her brothers. Oh, 0:13:30.036 --> 0:13:35.716 I get it. She's like, she's going to be maybe 0:13:35.756 --> 0:13:38.156 a lawyer. These are the things I'm thinking. Literally, in 0:13:38.396 --> 0:13:41.836 split seconds, I thought that, in those split seconds, that 0:13:41.876 --> 0:13:44.836 I was dealing with a girl who wanted to be 0:13:45.036 --> 0:13:49.396 seen as tough, a girl who recognized the inequality in 0:13:49.436 --> 0:13:53.276 this world and didn't want to have second best, wanted 0:13:53.356 --> 0:13:57.876 to be seen as lead character. And so I, you know, 0:13:57.916 --> 0:14:04.076 almost like raised the fist in solidarity with this girl 0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:06.916 that I thought I was looking at. And you said 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:08.916 that you felt this was a parenting failure. Can you 0:14:09.116 --> 0:14:13.236 say more about that? I grew up with great stories 0:14:13.276 --> 0:14:17.996 of great women, Shirley Chisholm, Billy Jean King, Nina Simone, 0:14:19.156 --> 0:14:24.276 my Angelou was our neighbor, and those stories of those 0:14:24.316 --> 0:14:28.396 women helped me to be this woman. And those stories 0:14:28.556 --> 0:14:31.116 are part of my story, and so I was really 0:14:31.116 --> 0:14:36.796 excited to have my daughters raised around powerful women. And 0:14:36.836 --> 0:14:39.476 so I thought, oh shit, did I not tell the 0:14:39.556 --> 0:14:42.396 Shirley Chisholm story to Penelope? Did I not raise this 0:14:42.516 --> 0:14:46.156 kid on all of the strong, bold women that have 0:14:46.476 --> 0:14:50.556 changed America for the better. And I was thinking, Oh, 0:14:50.596 --> 0:14:53.396 maybe I didn't tell enough of the stories of women 0:14:53.476 --> 0:14:57.836 and aunties and that female perspective that is so important, 0:14:58.236 --> 0:15:04.996 that female energy. You know, I thought I had dropped 0:15:04.996 --> 0:15:10.516 the ball on feminism and therefore this girl didn't want 0:15:10.516 --> 0:15:16.316 to be a girl. And I was also thinking of 0:15:16.356 --> 0:15:21.396 it from a self centered perspective, as most of us do. Right, 0:15:21.436 --> 0:15:23.996 It's also like very typical. This is something to do 0:15:24.076 --> 0:15:27.396 with me. What Pannella is saying about him? Is it 0:15:27.436 --> 0:15:30.356 really about me? So when Pannell says I don't want 0:15:30.396 --> 0:15:32.596 to be a woman, I'm not thinking what did I 0:15:32.636 --> 0:15:35.236 do to set up this child? Why does he not 0:15:35.276 --> 0:15:37.636 want to be? Like? Don't you want to be like me? Exactly? 0:15:39.516 --> 0:15:42.196 I thought my life was pretty darn good as a 0:15:42.236 --> 0:15:44.796 black woman. You know a lot of people think differently, 0:15:44.796 --> 0:15:48.676 Like they don't know, maybe maybe folks think that black 0:15:48.716 --> 0:15:51.396 woman is bottom of the barrel. I'm actually and the 0:15:51.436 --> 0:15:55.436 women in my family actually think of it as the epitome. 0:15:55.756 --> 0:15:57.836 We want to be black women, we are excited to 0:15:57.876 --> 0:16:01.396 be black women. And so when this black child said 0:16:01.556 --> 0:16:04.156 I'm not a girl and I don't want to be 0:16:04.196 --> 0:16:08.636 a woman, I thought I had failed. And I said, 0:16:09.916 --> 0:16:14.076 you know, however you feel inside, baby, it's fine if 0:16:14.116 --> 0:16:16.076 you feel like your brothers, go ahead and act like 0:16:16.116 --> 0:16:18.476 your brothers. And so I said, look, you know you're 0:16:18.516 --> 0:16:22.356 perfect the way you are. Your body is perfect, you 0:16:22.396 --> 0:16:28.756 are phenomenal. And that that that language was absolutely not 0:16:30.116 --> 0:16:32.996 landing well on Penelope. When I said your body is 0:16:33.036 --> 0:16:34.716 perfect and you are perfect, and I love you just 0:16:34.836 --> 0:16:37.876 as you are, he looked at me again with this 0:16:38.116 --> 0:16:41.556 anger because I wasn't getting it, you know, when someone 0:16:41.596 --> 0:16:44.396 doesn't see you and you're trying so hard to explain 0:16:44.516 --> 0:16:47.636 yourself to them. He gave me one more shot and 0:16:47.676 --> 0:16:53.396 he said, Mama, no, I don't feel like a boy. 0:16:53.556 --> 0:16:58.396 I am a boy. And that was the last that was, 0:16:58.716 --> 0:17:01.076 you know, that was I had to get it on 0:17:01.116 --> 0:17:04.636 that point. I had to get it to not get 0:17:04.636 --> 0:17:08.956 it at that and that moment would have been so 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:13.316 many backward steps. In that moment when he said I 0:17:13.396 --> 0:17:16.516 don't feel like a boy. I am a boy. What 0:17:16.676 --> 0:17:20.356 I did know was that we were talking about something 0:17:20.796 --> 0:17:24.796 more than an emotion. It was an identity that we 0:17:24.796 --> 0:17:30.876 were talking about. And so once Penelope said I don't 0:17:31.356 --> 0:17:33.596 feel like a boy, I am a boy, I really 0:17:33.636 --> 0:17:37.276 just listened for a long time. We must have been 0:17:37.276 --> 0:17:39.556 in that room for about an hour or so, and 0:17:39.716 --> 0:17:42.436 Panelle really just told me about how he saw life, 0:17:42.796 --> 0:17:46.716 how he felt inside, what he was experiencing, none of 0:17:46.756 --> 0:17:50.036 which I knew. He said, Mama, I love you, but 0:17:50.076 --> 0:17:53.436 I don't want to be you. I want to be Papa. 0:17:54.636 --> 0:17:57.316 He said, I don't want tomorrow to come because tomorrow 0:17:57.356 --> 0:18:02.036 I will look like you. I want a doctor to 0:18:02.116 --> 0:18:04.676 make me a peanut. Mama, Can a doctor make me 0:18:04.716 --> 0:18:08.036 a peanut? Here's a kid who was very aware his 0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:11.476 body at that time was the culprit. At that moment, 0:18:11.516 --> 0:18:16.716 at almost three, Panel's body was the enemy. And I 0:18:16.796 --> 0:18:20.316 understood how deep that was, and I understood how painful 0:18:20.356 --> 0:18:26.516 that must feel. But he was confiding in me, which 0:18:26.716 --> 0:18:29.676 was the most beautiful thing and most courageous thing. He 0:18:29.676 --> 0:18:32.196 confided in me, and he said, will you helped me, Mama? 0:18:32.676 --> 0:18:37.356 And I said yes, saying yes was a yes, an 0:18:37.396 --> 0:18:41.556 overarching yes. It wasn't yes to any one particular next step, 0:18:41.596 --> 0:18:45.276 because I didn't know what the hell, what the hell 0:18:45.316 --> 0:18:48.076 were the next steps? But I was saying yes to him, 0:18:48.316 --> 0:18:54.076 Yes to his life. Yeah. Yeah. When we were talking. 0:18:54.076 --> 0:18:57.236 When I was listening to him, there was a river 0:18:57.396 --> 0:19:02.116 behind us, and it was moving with such depth, and 0:19:03.276 --> 0:19:07.316 the force of the river that I could hear felt 0:19:07.396 --> 0:19:10.636 like the urgency of the life in front of me. 0:19:11.236 --> 0:19:14.516 It was a connection that I'll never forget. And Penelope 0:19:15.156 --> 0:19:19.716 talking about his life, it was, it was happening. It 0:19:19.756 --> 0:19:21.796 wasn't like I could stop Penelope being who he was. 0:19:22.076 --> 0:19:24.836 It was in motion, and he needed me to be 0:19:25.116 --> 0:19:27.836 with him in motion. And then it struck something in 0:19:27.916 --> 0:19:34.116 me that was so primary that if I had not 0:19:34.156 --> 0:19:37.156 said ye, as tip Penelope, I would have been saying 0:19:37.156 --> 0:19:40.676 no to even myself. That that moment when your child 0:19:41.356 --> 0:19:47.756 is you is life and there's no half stepping. You 0:19:47.876 --> 0:19:52.116 just gotta go all the way. You cannot tiptoe. And 0:19:52.196 --> 0:19:58.476 so I jumped in, We'll be right back with a 0:19:58.516 --> 0:20:14.716 flight change of plans. I'm talking with Jody Patterson, a 0:20:14.796 --> 0:20:18.036 mother activist and author of the book The Bold World 0:20:18.476 --> 0:20:22.556 and memoir of family and transformation. Her son Pannell, came 0:20:22.556 --> 0:20:25.156 out to Jody as transgender more than a decade ago, 0:20:25.596 --> 0:20:28.476 when he was nearly three years old. I wanted to 0:20:28.516 --> 0:20:30.476 know what the days and weeks were like for Jody 0:20:30.676 --> 0:20:35.956 after that pivotal moment with Pannell. There's so much crying 0:20:36.316 --> 0:20:38.796 that is that comes with this, Like when you raise 0:20:38.836 --> 0:20:45.836 a kid who's different, the NonStop angst of a parent 0:20:46.236 --> 0:20:49.116 is real. So I was, you know, spending a lot 0:20:49.116 --> 0:20:51.316 of time on the couch crying, spending a lot of 0:20:51.316 --> 0:20:55.396 time in the bed crying, and it was getting to 0:20:55.476 --> 0:20:58.916 the point where it was overriding other things, overriding my 0:20:59.316 --> 0:21:03.076 ability to be there for all the children, be there 0:21:03.116 --> 0:21:06.636 for my husband, be there for the daily tasks that 0:21:06.716 --> 0:21:08.836 needed to get done. And so one day I was 0:21:09.436 --> 0:21:12.836 sitting on this couch, on my couch just crying, I 0:21:12.876 --> 0:21:17.996 mean like really sobbing, curled up. Then of all, the 0:21:18.036 --> 0:21:23.196 kids were at school, and my my sister friend, who 0:21:23.236 --> 0:21:24.836 was like an auntie to the children, was sitting on 0:21:24.836 --> 0:21:26.436 the couch next to me, and she usually just let 0:21:26.476 --> 0:21:29.076 me do what I you know, needed to do, which 0:21:29.156 --> 0:21:31.876 was cry, But this one day in particular, she just 0:21:31.916 --> 0:21:38.916 looked at me, calmly and quietly but very clearly said 0:21:38.956 --> 0:21:45.396 to me, you know, Jody, big girls we cry and 0:21:45.556 --> 0:21:51.196 type at the same time, you know. And as I 0:21:51.236 --> 0:21:53.116 looked at her, because it was first of all, I'd 0:21:53.116 --> 0:21:55.516 never heard anything like it, so it wasn't like, you know, 0:21:55.956 --> 0:21:59.756 a catchphrase, big girls cry and type at the same time. 0:22:01.436 --> 0:22:04.556 And it took a second, but she never explained it. 0:22:04.596 --> 0:22:07.836 I just understood it. So it's a phrase that comes 0:22:07.876 --> 0:22:09.796 at a time. It's a South and phrase and it 0:22:09.836 --> 0:22:13.076 probably was, you know, birthed when women were typing on 0:22:13.156 --> 0:22:17.076 typewriters and were asked to do things at the desk, 0:22:17.156 --> 0:22:20.756 assisting people on typewriters. But they were also activists, they 0:22:20.756 --> 0:22:23.836 were also mothers, They were also leaders in their community, 0:22:23.836 --> 0:22:25.396 and they had a lot to be pissed off about, 0:22:25.476 --> 0:22:27.596 a lot to be scared about. And so you have 0:22:27.716 --> 0:22:29.996 to get through the day, but you're gonna cry and 0:22:30.036 --> 0:22:32.436 type at the same time. And remember this is ten 0:22:32.516 --> 0:22:34.796 years ago, so we don't have we didn't have the 0:22:34.996 --> 0:22:39.196 understanding of the language. We didn't have trends, icons, living, 0:22:39.276 --> 0:22:41.836 we didn't have Janet Mock, we didn't have posed, we 0:22:41.836 --> 0:22:45.876 didn't have any of the understanding. So the next several 0:22:45.996 --> 0:22:50.156 weeks which turned into several months, which turned into many months, 0:22:50.876 --> 0:22:56.276 I just typed away at my computer and google transgender 0:22:57.156 --> 0:23:00.316 and then I would squirrel through anything that came up, 0:23:00.436 --> 0:23:05.476 whether it was like doctors in the field, hypotheses, theories, 0:23:05.796 --> 0:23:12.476 you know, peer groups, parents, organizations. That those those weeks 0:23:12.476 --> 0:23:18.876 of just like exploring the World Wide Web were dark 0:23:18.916 --> 0:23:20.796 in a sense because they were mostly at night. I 0:23:20.876 --> 0:23:25.076 was hiding away from everyone. It's a strange time, strange time, 0:23:25.316 --> 0:23:32.076 very um, very very inward. I didn't have a network 0:23:32.116 --> 0:23:35.436 of people then to talk to. And then some in 0:23:35.476 --> 0:23:39.636 some moments, I would have these like moments of like light, 0:23:39.956 --> 0:23:46.076 like total optimism. And I stumbled upon a video of 0:23:46.116 --> 0:23:48.956 this little girl named Jazz, who is a young trans 0:23:49.036 --> 0:23:52.116 kid at the time, little girl, and I just deep 0:23:52.196 --> 0:23:56.076 dived into her story and her family. You organized a 0:23:56.236 --> 0:24:01.276 family movie night around Jazz's story, right, Yeah. We're sitting 0:24:01.316 --> 0:24:03.836 on the couch and it's you know, a few, I 0:24:03.836 --> 0:24:09.396 think three of the youngest kids, and we're watching as 0:24:09.436 --> 0:24:13.756 his family really just be proud to be a trans family. 0:24:14.916 --> 0:24:20.396 And Jazz is being bubbly and you know, so outgoing, 0:24:20.556 --> 0:24:23.756 and she's loving being a trans kid, and Panela looks 0:24:23.756 --> 0:24:27.156 at me for the first time and says, Mama, I'm 0:24:27.276 --> 0:24:34.516 trans too, like Jazz. Mama, I'm trans like Jazz, first time, 0:24:34.596 --> 0:24:38.996 first time ever putting word to how he was inside 0:24:39.396 --> 0:24:42.236 and how he is as a person. And it was 0:24:42.276 --> 0:24:45.436 this kid, you know, that he saw on the computer. 0:24:45.596 --> 0:24:49.076 Just it just you know, this is why representation matters. 0:24:49.156 --> 0:24:52.196 It's like a catchphrase, representation matters. And then when you 0:24:52.236 --> 0:24:55.756 actually realize that the only time your kid has seen 0:24:56.356 --> 0:25:00.156 themselves on a screen is once, and it lights your 0:25:00.236 --> 0:25:03.876 kid up. You want that, You want more of that. Yeah, 0:25:04.036 --> 0:25:08.716 you're navigating this moment where you're trying to educate yourself 0:25:08.756 --> 0:25:12.276 on every thing there is to know about being transgender. 0:25:12.676 --> 0:25:16.116 You're also protecting your child right and you're trying to 0:25:17.196 --> 0:25:21.956 bring others in the family on board. Well, what inspires you, Jody, 0:25:22.196 --> 0:25:28.036 to to get to action in all this like fear, anxiety, 0:25:29.476 --> 0:25:35.076 complete and utter, like gut wrenching fear. I am terrified, 0:25:36.316 --> 0:25:43.996 and that energy is absolutely understandable. It has earned skepticism 0:25:44.036 --> 0:25:47.156 of this country, of these politics, of these folks in 0:25:47.676 --> 0:25:52.516 official positions to make laws. I am and that that's so, 0:25:52.596 --> 0:25:56.716 that energy of fear is natural and normal. And actually 0:25:56.756 --> 0:26:00.276 a healthy response to the environment, and I turn that 0:26:00.436 --> 0:26:06.116 energy into activism. So I don't It's not that I'm 0:26:06.116 --> 0:26:09.436 not scared. It's not that I don't think about folks 0:26:09.436 --> 0:26:13.956 that are killing black trans people. But I take that 0:26:13.956 --> 0:26:19.196 that inner fear and I turn it into outward action. 0:26:19.716 --> 0:26:24.036 And you very quickly become Pannell's lead supporter an advocate 0:26:24.236 --> 0:26:28.516 when it comes to getting the family and community on 0:26:28.556 --> 0:26:34.196 board with his true gender identity. You craft letters to 0:26:34.276 --> 0:26:38.156 your community and you have Panell participate in that process. 0:26:38.836 --> 0:26:40.676 Can you tell me more about what that experience was 0:26:40.716 --> 0:26:44.636 like and how it changed your relationship with Panell? If 0:26:44.636 --> 0:26:46.596 it did change it it did, You're right, I mean, 0:26:46.636 --> 0:26:48.636 it's funny. I just I didn't think about it being 0:26:48.636 --> 0:26:51.196 a turning point in our relationship. But when you say 0:26:51.236 --> 0:26:56.676 it that way, it actually was. We became partners in 0:26:56.716 --> 0:27:00.396 the sense that we were working towards a shared common goal. 0:27:01.556 --> 0:27:03.836 You know, usually it's like top down authority, parents, that's 0:27:03.876 --> 0:27:08.276 the agenda, and the kids until you you know, finish college, 0:27:09.196 --> 0:27:12.476 you're growing along with your parents' agenda more so than not. 0:27:12.956 --> 0:27:15.956 And so this was the first time when Penelope and I, 0:27:16.036 --> 0:27:19.956 when my child and I were going on a path 0:27:19.996 --> 0:27:22.276 that it was a shared agenda and actually an agenda 0:27:22.356 --> 0:27:26.116 that the child had set. There's a moment when the 0:27:26.196 --> 0:27:30.076 kid takes a lead, because only only the individual self 0:27:30.156 --> 0:27:36.596 knows itself. So I allowed that understanding of what the 0:27:36.676 --> 0:27:38.596 goal was to be set by Penelope, and then I 0:27:38.676 --> 0:27:41.716 navigated the details of that, and so it looked like, 0:27:41.796 --> 0:27:47.396 you know, writing a letter to the family announcing penelas 0:27:47.436 --> 0:27:52.596 a boy, asking for their respect and their love and 0:27:52.636 --> 0:27:56.836 their support, and also stating that if they weren't ready 0:27:56.876 --> 0:28:00.956 to give those things love and support, then they could 0:28:00.956 --> 0:28:02.796