WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Leon Thomas Talks 'Mutt,' Acting, Music, Working With Drake, Ye, SZA , 'Quiet On Set,' + More 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:05.360 Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.240 Everybody is the j n V. 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.240 Jess Hilarious, Chelamaane the guy. We are the Breakfast Club 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.000 Laura La Rossa Field in for just today. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:13.960 We got a special guest in the building. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.000 Yes, indeed we have the brother Leon Thomas. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 Welcome, Bro. It's good, it's good. Hey y'all feeling how 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:18.400 you feeling? 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:19.840 Bless Black and Holly favorite Leon. 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.840 You are by far the greatest new male R and 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.239 B singer doing it today. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:25.520 Man, thank you so much. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.120 That shouldn't even be up with debate. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.280 Man, Man, I really appreciate that. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:30.320 Man, how do you receive it? 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.159 I mean, you know, to be honest, I try to 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.559 just take it one step at a time, you know, 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.760 I try to stay humble with everything. But I'm glad 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.559 to be a new voice in R and B. You know, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.360 it's a genre that I love. You know, I'm trying 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:48.479 to bring back live musicianship, real songs. You know, writing 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.880 with the team that I have has been in an 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.800 amazing pleasure and you know, just bringing like that that 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.080 organic feeling back to the live stage is like a 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:56.800 big thing for me. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.960 You know, one of your biggest fans who's a produce. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.880 Sit up here. He put us on to you years ago. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:04.720 His name is Brandon, but he's actually this is the 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.560 funniest thing. He's actually in Africa right. 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.679 Now, really Vietnam. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.640 But he's a huge fan of y'alls. He goes to 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.240 all your shows and all your concerts. Put us on 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:14.640 to you early, but he would have he would have 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:15.360 loved to see you here. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:16.920 For people that. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.399 Don't know Leon Thomas, you know you started on Broadway. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.200 Tell everybody how you got your start and your way 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.040 into being this R and B star. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.960 Well, listen, I grew up in New York, started on Broadway. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.080 Out here. I did three Broadway plays from Lion King 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.160 the Carolina changed the color purple. You assembled like, yeah, yeah, 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.800 I was resembled in Lion King. And then you know, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.920 I started booking movies and TV show. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.360 But how how was that? I just took my kids 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.440 to see it. It was insane. I was that training 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:43.000 because it's. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.280 A lot of shows, a lot of people. 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:46.520 In his lives. So you can't mess up. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:48.680 No, no, you can't mess up. It's eight shows a week. 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:50.600 I was ten years old when I did my first 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.240 Broadway play. Shout out to my mom and my family 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.040 for you know, supporting me through that whole journey. And 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.800 and yeah, man, I went from being a regular kid 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.480 to starring on Broadway and a matter of months. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.640 You know, Now, how was that because it's it's not 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.560 the typical thing New York kids do, right, So you're singing, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.280 you're dancing, you're doing it. So how did you get 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.400 it to that point of no, because you don't go 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.920 I don't know anybody it went to Brow It's very 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:15.639 different kids. 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:20.760 I don't know. I had a couple of homies who 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.600 ended up in different plays, but for the most part, yeah, yeah, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.440 it was definitely like a bit of an anomaly for 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.000 my neighborhood in Brooklyn. It was. It was kind of 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.959 weird explaining it to my homies at school, like, yeah, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.480 I was just doing the show last night. They're like, 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:32.320 what was going on? 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.440 Yeah, yeah, we're not from New York, from the hoods 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:38.000 of New York. 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:44.080 Okay, But no, it was definitely a real pleasure, you know. 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.079 But but but from there, I ended up doing a 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.320 lot of TV and film. You know. I shot my 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.200 first movie out here with Robin Williams and Terrence Howard 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.920 called August Rush which was an amazing pleasure, and that 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:56.959 kind of brought me into a lot of a lot 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:02.240 of TV after that with Nickelodeon and Victoria Victorious. Yeah yeah, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.919 Ariana Grande and you know, that was a big journey. 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.520 That was the number one show on the network at 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.320 the time. We were beating out American Idol, and it 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.000 was a way for the rest of the world to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.840 kind of really tap into who I am as a creative. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.640 But it it took years of really honing in on 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.040 who I am as an artist to get to this point, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.800 producing and writing for a bunch of different artists, winning 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:29.600 a Grammy, working with Sissa and Babyface, Drake, a bunch 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.880 of different people. It's been a real actually produced for Drake. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.200 But but you know, shout out to him and yeah, 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.080 allegedly man, but you know, from me, I don't think 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.320 there's anything wrong with it either. But it was a 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.080 blessing to I mean, it's interesting because I'm an artist 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:45.920 and people see me as a singer, they kind of 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.520 forget that I also produced a lot of big records. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.160 You know, my production game is pretty tight. So but yeah, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:53.960 all purpose. 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.000 Lyrics like that of a rap But that's why when 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.440 I see Freddie Gibbs on your records, but it makes 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:00.520 so much it SEMs to. 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.760 Be anybody from Victoria's absolutely man. You know, I chop 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.320 it up with Ari Avan, Joe Gia is a really 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.760 good friend of mine. You know, Matt Bennett, a lot 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:12.320 of the casts. We all hang out and do lunch. 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.760 It's kind of like my last two years of high 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.359 school were with them, so that's like my graduating class. Essentially. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.000 We were all in school together, so you know, we filmed, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.720 but we also went to school, so those are It 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.000 was my really good friends. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.000 To Victoria and her mom. I did a host of 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:28.760 the New Year's Eve specially with them for real. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:30.400 Oh that's dope, that's dope. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:31.760 People. You ever wrote for Ariana? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.880 Yeah? Actually I worked with her on her first album. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.360 That was my first time going number one with an album. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.279 I did about like four songs on her first album, 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.240 Yours truly Wow. So that was a real, real pleasure. Yeah. 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.440 I was about to say like how did you know 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.120 so young? And like just being like Okay, I can act, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:51.720 I can dance, I can sing, but I can also 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.400 go produce over here, like how because a lot of 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.560 people wait to diversify until they're like, you know, exposed. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:58.400 I mean, shout out to Jermaine Duprix. He used to 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.960 have this YouTube series called Living of Life. It was 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.520 a Jermaine Dupris and Brian Michael Cox, and they were 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.840 always in the studio like filming their process, and you know, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.680 I saw them being rich black men, you know, also 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.120 being able to be creative every day, and I wanted 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.160 to kind of recreate that lifestyle for myself. Ryan Leslie 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.040 as well, like seeing a lot of his YouTube videos 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.920 inspired me to you know, open up logic and try 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:20.799 to produce myself. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.279 You know, did you know you always wanted to be 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.039 an R and B singer? Like it was that the 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.960 goal as a kid growing up, always want to be 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:27.320 an actor. Like and when did you pivot? When he 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:28.919 was like, this is what I want to do. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:34.880 Listen. I feel like I did this role with Catherine Bigelow. 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.479 She's an Oscar Award winning director, but I had to 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.920 cut my dreads for it, and that was kind of 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.600 like my last straw in acting. You know. I did 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.240 this role for Detroit and I felt like, you know, 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.479 I need to kind of tap back into who I 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.320 am as an artist. And you know, grew my dreads back, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.520 really got into my internal self, meditating, really like tapping 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.800 into who I am as a human being, and a 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.520 lot of great music came out of that. You know, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.280 I always I wanted to be uh a singer, but 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.680 I knew for a fact I needed to really present 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.000 myself as who I truly was. It's so easy to 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.800 play a character when you're always acting. You know, I 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.040 needed to come to the world as my true self. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.640 Now you are timas the third Yeah, first to leon 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.919 to have any background in music, not really. 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.720 You know, but my grandfather. I didn't get a lot 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.919 of time with my grandfather, but but my dad always 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:28.640 told me that he was a real lover of music. 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.360 And my dad sings, but he's an assistant principal now. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.720 But my grandfather, who actually recently just passed, God bless 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.600 his soul, John Anthony, was an opera singer and was 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.159 on Broadway and Hello Dolly, and used to be the 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.680 music director for One Life to Live out Here in 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.160 New York all of the soap operas back in the day. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.279 So you know, I was definitely surrounded by music just 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.480 through through my mom and her side of the family 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.760 was musician. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so so so my 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.280 mom John Anthony, she she had a club day being 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.640 in New York, used to play it, used to be 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.240 the house band for the World Trade Center, you know, 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.640 played a lot of the big clubs out here, and 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.200 I just grew up backstage with her and you know, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.000 just really hanging out, you know, learning, learning music. So 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.920 what was so the Black Rock Coalition. There was clubs 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.800 like CBGB's and a rare of different clubs where it 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.480 was kind of awkward at a certain point in the 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:28.080 nineteen eighties where you know, rock was created by us, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.280 but there was definitely elements of prejudice within that genre. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.560 And all of the black rock stars decided to come together, 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.240 you know, the cats from Living Color, a bunch of 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.400 them just all came together to really protect each other 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.720 through through through moments of you know, turmoil, through through 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.960 that season of the eighties and early nineties, and it's 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:49.880 just good to have each other's back, especially in the 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.400 genre where you're not always celebrated. 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:52.520 When you were on. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.600 The like the sets when you like even with like 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.680 Victoria's and stuff like that, was your mom and like 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.520 your parents there often oh yeah, my mom on they 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.480 talked a lot about that too, Like parents were close. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.720 Now they were there, they were there. You know, my 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.280 mom was never like a mamager like over my over 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.520 my shoulder kind of mom. But she was also very 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:16.160 protective of my piece and met health and sure that 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.880 just like in a good, good space while I'm while 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.440 I'm trying to create something timeless and you know, shout 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.160 out to her always, you know, crean safe spaces for 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.080 me throughout that journey, you. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:27.520 Know, from getting slimmed. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.320 It was definitely nuts, definitely nuts, you know, seeing seeing 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.800 how definitely it's definitely definitely insane. 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:40.800 Don't say that. Definitely nuts. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.040 Yeah, I know, I know, you know it's crazy. It's 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.920 crazy because you know, I just saw the dock not 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.600 too long ago. It's not the eye opening and and 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.439 a lot of my castmates we we hopped on a 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.280 zoom call. We all wanted to talk about it. I mean, 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.200 luckily during during our seasons it was it was very 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.960 wholesome and sip. But you know, shout out to anybody 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.320 who dealt with anything bad. I mean, I you know, 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.120 my heart definitely goes out to them. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:09.800 Did you have a childhood growing up like were you 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.640 able to do things that normal kids did or was 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.760 it always I'm on set, I'm working. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.480 Yeah, I mean, you know, to be completely real with you, 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.400 I had a great childhood. My mom made sure that, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.720 you know, I had a good group of friends. I 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.200 went to public school up until my last two years 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.920 of high school. You know, I feel like having that 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.520 grounded energy was definitely important for even me as a 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.520 songwriter and a producer now and an artist. You know, 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.719 I feel like, you know, I come from a very 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.040 human place. It's not like I try to detach from 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.640 who I am organically. You know. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.240 The thing I love about your music too is number 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:48.960 one I can tell you, Ben, you got a sense 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:49.480 of freedom. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:50.000 Yeah. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.400 So did that come with money or does that come 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.520 with just how you came up? You know, with your 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.120 mom doing music? So you always felt free as an artiste? 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.480 Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the greatest thing 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.520 about being an artist is at it's a It's a 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.480 great representation of being a free black man, you know, like, 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.120 you know, being able to wear what I want, you know, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.080 say what I want on on record is really important 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.920 to me. You know. I try to stay as grounded 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.080 and as real to who I am as I can be. 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.040 I mean, I think it's it's it's really easy to 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.480 want to be an artist and play a character who 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.800 you think people want you to be. But I'm doing 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.440 my best to just like kind of just say what 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:27.400 I want, do what I want. 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.080 You know, when you come up with songs with like 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.840 I like feelings on Silent with I Love Valle, but 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.240 songs like that, like when I listen to it, each 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:35.920 time I get something different from it. So the first 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:37.400 time I listened to I was like, oh, this is 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.559 like guys just being like we keep her feeling to herself. 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.160 And then the second time I listened, I'm like, this 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.240 is the trauma that they deal with because like he 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.480 mentions PTSD and a bunch of other things, like how 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.199 do you first of all, sitting back you wrote that, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.920 sitting back and writing with him, how do you be like, Okay, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.760 here's all the things that we want people to get 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.800 when they hear this, or do you guys just write 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.960 and whatever people get they get like where you dealing 0:10:59.960 --> 0:11:01.040 with something yourself then? 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.959 Or you know, the way I wrote that record was 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.959 really interesting. I was in I was in Italy actually, 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.719 I was working with Ya and Todd Dollars on the 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.959 Vultures one project, and we were at the Medici estate, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.920 which is really beautiful four seasons that they have out there, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.960 beautiful garden, and I'm listening to the instrumental from Conductor 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.480 walking through the Garden and I just had some lyrics 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.800 kind of you know, bubbling up in my head. Went 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.360 back and we recorded it, but I think it was 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.040 one of those moments that it was just kind of 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.400 stream of consciousness. I didn't really think too hard on 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.920 my sections. That was like my second take that you're 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.480 hearing there. It wasn't like me like kind of really 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.400 punching in a bunch of different ideas. It was just 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.640 kind of flowing. And when Wilee heard it, that was 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.400 probably the hardest verse to get because we did probably 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.760 we did like five sessions to get that one verse. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.160 But Yo, he's so talented and seeing how he crafted 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360 his verse, I mean he would do like five bars 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.120 at the time, and he really cared about the poetry 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.040 of it all, you know, And it's why I really 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.640 respect him as an artist. 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.120 He's just a true lyricist. 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.040 You signed the time, Yeah I am yeah, okay, yeah yeah, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:15.199 easy money and uh, it's in conjunction with Motown Records 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.000 and just you know, between legacy and a new imprint. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.040 I think it's been really cool to to kind of 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.040 break around in R and B right now. It's been 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:23.679 a real special thing. 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.240 Do I feel like mot Town Records is doing enough 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.679 for you? I don't know why Leon Thomas is not 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.080 in heavy rotation on every radio station off the planet. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.040 Whatever that button is that they need to push, it 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:35.440 needs to be pushed. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.080 No, I appreciate it. Man. Well, I feel like opportunities 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.000 like this are really helpful. I feel like radio stations 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.840 are definitely looking at at platforms like this to say, okay, yeah, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.839 we feel comfortable, you know, trusting this new name and 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.760 new face. You know, I've been doing this a long time, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.160 but I still look at this as a new artist 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.480 journey because I really just started like taking the artist 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.760 journey serious these these last five years. So I'm really 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.760 thankful for the growth. I'm thankful for the wins. And 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.679 there's you know, it's people working really hard at those 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.880 labels with actually a lot of underfunding and collapsing of 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.199 of uh you know, labels into one. It's it's it's 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:14.880 just a lot of work and a lot of people 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.080 are losing jobs, so people are afraid to push that button. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.440 Sometimes it could be the demise of their entire you know, careers. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.040 So I really respect the work that they're doing. I 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.959 just know that this year is going to be really 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.520 special for me man. I mean, I've been doing a 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.560 lot of praying and manifesting for just new things, and 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.360 you know, this was definitely on my bucket list. So 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:33.840 I'm just appreciative to be here. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.480 Really, have any program directors the DJ's approached you and said, hey, 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.239 if you slide me this under the table. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:44.800 Nah, Nah, definitely, Yeah, I got a new HOMIEI homie. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.280 We got to congratulate you on your GRAMM. Yeah, we 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.360 tell everybody that we helped with that because we played 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.360 Snooze every morning four times. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.760 Did you wrote Snooze produced on Snooze? Man? First of all, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.040 let's clear this up. Shout out to Scissors for writing that. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.079 We were producing in a separate room and she heard 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.720 the instrumental and was like, yo, what is that? And 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.680 you know there is something that I do where I 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.800 like take my voice and I chop it up like 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.800 a sample because clearance samples is really expensive and cuts 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.360 into the publishing, so rather than it's like actually doing 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.040 a sample, I'll just you know, sing a little something, right. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.520 So she really liked that and then took it into 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.160 the other room and wrote an amazing song and being 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.520 a part of the production on that with Babyface legendary 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.400 baby Face was a true pleasure man. I mean it 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.760 was a real journey to see that song go from 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.480 like a crowd favorite to a Grammy Award winning R 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.640 and V song. Man, that was that was definitely life 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:40.280 changing for me. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.400 You got a deduction team, right, Yeah. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.680 Yeah, the Rascal was me, Me and and Chris tians Man. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.200 We've been working together since we were like eighteen, so 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.920 it's really cool to see the growth. I mean we 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:52.680 started off, you know, a little shaky when it came 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.920 to production, but it's nice to see us, you know, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.200 really develop into the producers we are now. We had 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.040 great mentors. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.720 Man, You have such you have such big moments. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.680 Like I thought I was tripping, but you just said 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.560 these last what like five years is when you feel 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:04.960 like things. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.160 That are really moving for you as an artist. 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.040 Yeah, Because I'm like, I know you outside of being 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.200 an artist, but you have such big moments even before 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.680 that and during that, but it's like, I don't know, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.600 like when do you feel like things started like to 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.440 click finally where people were like, oh, shoot, Leon like 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:20.600 we get it now. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.560 It's really interesting. I like to call it the Drake 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.760 effect when I was working When I was working with Drake, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.200 all of a sudden, label executives who have known me 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.400 for years were like, eh, I think you could be 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.240 an artist, you know, And I was like, okay, So 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.000 I kind of peeped that and I said, okay, well 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.320 let's just start. Let's start kind of building this out. 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.400 But I knew I wanted that that same formula that 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.960 Drake had with a little Wayne and and you know, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.160 working with Todd dallas signe was a really smart move, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.480 not only because he's just an amazing artist, but because 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.440 it was just nice to have a mentor who had 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.360 done it already. So he's he's just like kind of like, yo, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.400 try this, make sure the look as this, or you know, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.360 even when it came to the music, like here's how 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:07.000 you really format an album, and you know, I'm definitely 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:08.680 doing a lot of studying, you know, shout out to 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.560 Todd dallas On for sure. He definitely you know saw 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.240 something in me that a lot of label executives were 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.120 not sure about, and it's cool to see it developing. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:17.480 How did you? 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:19.440 How did you me? 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.760 I was actually working on his album as a producer 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.240 on featuring Todd Dallas Sign. I was like one of 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.040 I think nine producers on a song with Kanye and 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:29.960 Thundercat and a bunch of other people. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.000 Nine producers on one record. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.840 Yeah, because it's like it was when it it was 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.000 like point five, Like I was just there out of 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.760 this or that vocal and like some bass or something. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.680 And then but but he had everybody play like their 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.000 unreleased records and I played them some of my first 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.000 album as like demos, and Todd was like, yo, you 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.480 really You're really tight, you know as an artist, he 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.080 was like man, And he was originally trying to record 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:56.720 one of the songs that I had, but I was like, nah, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.440 I want you to feature on it. And uh. Over 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.360 the years became really good friends. I was working with 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.600 them a lot and just kind of developed into a 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.960 into a whole situation with Sean Baron. Sean Barron is 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.280 the guy who officially like put it all together with 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.880 easy Money in Motown. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.800 Is it tough navigating because people are getting to know 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.199 you now and there Airboy's fall in love with your 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.800 music now, and like you have such a close association 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.560 with Drake, you have to like pick and choose where 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.880 you go musically and what you do musically with who 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:22.600 you know. 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.679 Honestly, can you work with Kendrick Lamar if you wanted to? 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that's what she's asking. I mean, 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.879 the way, the way I really look at it is 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.560 just like on a political level, I make R and B. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.720 You know, obviously I make hip hop too, but I'm 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.720 really focused on my artist's journey. So I mean, Kendrick 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.240 is such a huge artist. I don't really foresee us 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.280 working together in the near future. And even with Drake, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.119 you know, I still want to take my steps to 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.119 really build on my own two feet as an artist. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:51.880 So I'm doing what i have to do right now 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.199 to really like grow my own business. Touring is a 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.080 big thing for me. I'm really focused on that. I'm 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.359 hitting the road all this year and working on more records. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.439 So I mean, shout out to everybody, but I'm definitely 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:04.040 focused on me. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:05.960 I want to ask you a buggess question about the 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.240 production before we get into both of these great albums. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.600 But you when you are part of the Rascals, Yeah, 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.200 if you all produced, but then you write, how do 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.399 y'all do you get another check for writing? Is that 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:17.200 two different checks? 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:22.280 Or you know, publishing is interesting because you want to 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.080 leave room for the artist. But I would definitely ask 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.359 for more percentages if we were really heavily involved in 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.000 the writing as well. But it's it's it's just an 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.639 interesting thing, you know. I try to we try to 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.560 keep it pretty even on the most part when it 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.560 comes to production, especially if everybody who's in the room 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:40.719 from the beginning of the record. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.760 What if it's your pin, it's everybody's production with your 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:45.320 pin or. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.560 I mean it's like fifty to fifty, so you know, 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.800 you have the first fifty is the production side, and 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.040 the way I look at it is melody and drums, 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.000 you know, uh, And then the second fifty is, you know, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.520 just the writing side, and it's just based off of 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.160 how much you ended up writing of the song. Because 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.720 a lot of artists are very involved with their storyline 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.040 and lyrics and hook ideas. So I have no problem 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.000 splitting that twenty five there. And then if I got 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.119 fifteen on the production or twenty five on the production. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:15.399 Now I got fifty percent of a record. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.520 Y'all talk about that while y'all doing its. 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.119 Trust me, we've definitely been through some things, you know, 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:30.040 after the fact that people get amnesia. But I think, 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 you know, it's it's really easier when you figure that 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.159 out the day it happens. You know. We used to 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.120 have split sheets there at the studio, which I thought 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.239 was a really good practice, but we kind of let 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:42.600 go of that. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.400 So talking about your phone and just in your notes, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.480 be like I put this there, Like, how do you 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:46.919 keep up? 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:47.560 Because you just eat. 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.240 It's just way easier and I think smarter to just 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.000 split everything even you know, if you can. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:56.720 Doing that though, people want to keep it thinking. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.159 Yeah, yeah, I mean some artists with us, they are 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.040 especially if you write and producing the song. 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.919 You know, how is it with Kanye when you do 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:03.879 splits and stuff like that? 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.720 Oh lord, it's a little interesting, man, But you know, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:09.760 shout out to him. I feel like that experience was 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.879 like more so just school for me on a production level. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.280 I've never seen anybody be so magical with their imagination. 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.120 He would have these ideas and It was so cool 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.679 to see teams of people make that a reality. And 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.399 I think that's what I could take from that. I mean, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.159 publishing is important, but you know, it's the it's the 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.560 true life experience from from seeing a free black man 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.560 put stuff together was like, really tight. 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.640 How old were you when you realize Vibes Don't Lie? 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.480 One of my favorite records, When you first realized Vibes 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:41.840 Don't Live? 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.240 I think that was that was definitely early twenties. I 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.680 think LA is filled with facades and people who are 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.400 pretending to be something they aren't, people who moved from 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.679 their hometown and create a whole new persona. So I 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.719 think for me, just really studying folks, especially a lot 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.280 of them. I mean, you deal without their you know, 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.119 it's really important to study their actions and out their words. 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.280 I love the fact that you are encouraging women women 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.800 to keep their pussy healthy. 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.280 Did you ever want to be a collegist? 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:12.359 No? 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.520 No, no, no, I wasn't on the list. I just listen, Yeah, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.000 I just listen. I just listen. Man. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.439 So they tell you, like, HEYY is not feeling the 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:22.800 best of this. 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.359 No, I mean, I just think balance is a conversation 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:36.520 you know, I just listencause. 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:35.040 You was very very specific. He said, uh, she only 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:35.640 drink water. 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.360 She keep that pussy healthy. 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.240 Sat on Twitter, you'd be talking crazy like that, but 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.159 you sing it so people can't be you had that 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.119 conversation in real life, which your home, like you're not 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:46.399 your home. 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.320 Honestly, I'm just big on shock value. I think songs, 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.439 especially R and B songs, have gotten a bit not boring. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.680 But I think we've we've kind of already hit the 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.200 golden era of R and B. So I'm just finding 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.480 new ways to make people's years, you know, perk up 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:05.840 and their minds move. I think social media and podcasts 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.440 are really interesting to me. You know, these phone mics 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.879 bring out so many conversations, and I think as an 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.800 R and B artist, I want to find ways to 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.639 let that live on the record, and it doesn't always 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:18.920 have to be like verbatim of what I'm going through 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.119 in real life. I think it's important to create the drama. 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.199 You know, I kind of see music as you know, 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.959 script and the score. So sometimes the records are just 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.080 like really good dramatizations of like what I'm seeing, don't 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:34.399 you never think. 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.760 Everybody, but but like, w how does that go for 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:38.600 you now? 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:40.680 I mean I don't think. I don't think it's now. 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.240 Expecting you to be like, all right, here's the check, 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:44.800 Like how do you because you got the songs? 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:46.960 Like yeah, yeah, you know, I definitely got the songs. 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.119 But I think it's just important to be honest with 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.240 your partner, you know, communicate. But but I think it's 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.480 it's a it's a pretty interesting conversation. I try to 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.040 stay out of if I don't have to. You know 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.520 what I'm saying. No, I don't even know what that is. 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.080 You put me all right now at a little. 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.240 Bit, a little wax on it, a little pinky, put 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.440 the pinky inside of hold on, jump you got something? 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.800 Try to putting in his health. It should be you listen. 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.439 You should do it on yourself. I don't know where you. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:21.080 Do. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.800 That is nothing that South Carolina the same road thing 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:25.280 that they do. 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:26.000 It doesn't. 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:27.320 I do not try that. 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:29.200 He that doesn't. 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:31.919 Your mom never told you that you guys to make 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.560 it go drink ginger ales. 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.680 Were talking about ginger up everything, not ear wax. Don't 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:38.160 listen to him. 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.280 That's why you say, that's what's crazy. 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:51.119 Locomol used to be like go get some ginger and 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:51.560 lay down. 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:56.360 Wow about We love ginger ale around here. 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:01.159 One thing I don't respect is what you did on 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:01.880 how fast though? 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:03.919 What's up? What's up on? 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:04.679 People? In Honda? 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:09.040 No, No is one of the most reliable. I love 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.280 a good Honda. My dad has a Honda. I love Hondas. 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.639 Here's the deal. It was a quick bar, you know. 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.000 I was just in the booth wildy. I don't really 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:18.520 have a problem with it. I think it was just 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:20.760 more so I was just flowing, you know. And and 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.479 I'm I'm big on not doing too many edits, like 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:25.480 like when I when I record a record, it's like, 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:27.520 what's coming to my mind on the first or second 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.760 take is what's it's going to be there, you know. 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:32.000 And I like to stand on my my you know, 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:34.000 first mind. And it was more so just talking about 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.239 the competition being slower than I am because moving at 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.119 such a fast paced uh you know. The metaphor was 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.200 about that. It had nothing to do with Honda, but Honda, 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:45.080 you know, compared to a Lamborghini, is pretty you know, 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:45.600 pretty slow. 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:50.240 No, civics are more reliable civics to stick with you, 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:50.720 like her bees. 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:52.880 Bro. Yeah, what was your first car. 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:54.320 My first car was Bene. 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:57.680 Okay, you've been getting money for We just talked about 0:24:57.680 --> 0:24:58.399 his career. 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:03.800 Ultimately, like, no, no, no, that was my first one. 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:08.480 Yeah, did your therapist really tell you that you're too detached. 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:10.520 You don't commit? 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.919 Nah, I think I think you know that bar for me. 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:18.560 I have a co writer, Busy Krug, and he lives 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.840 in Miami, great rapper. That was a bar that came 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:24.480 from him. He's very deep into therapy. But I'm glad 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:26.719 that we talked about it on record because I mean 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.400 it's something that I definitely did try out over the pandemic, 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:31.199 and it's something that I actually really respect you a 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.240 lot for a champion, you know. But but but yeah, 0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:35.960 that was a that was a bar from Busy. But 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:37.480 I thought it was important to add in there. 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.040 You know, don't try to blame Busy now, Nah. 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:42.560 I mean it's you know, that's my co writer, you know, 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:44.159 shout out to him, you know what I'm saying. Like, 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.479 we we write a lot of our songs together, and 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.800 I really respect a lot of a lot of the 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.760 perspectives he brings to a lot of my poignant records. 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:51.960 You know. 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.440 Yeah, some great bars for Dancing with When I listen 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.880 to Dancing with the Demons, do you. 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.360 Ever get like Miguel references sometimes. 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.720 Absolutely listening, I'm like, oh. 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:04.959 My gosh, Like I wonder if like that, Like, are 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:05.920 y'all do you know him? 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:06.200 Yeah? 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:07.679 Yeah, that's like my big bro. We actually did a 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:09.679 movie together. He was in Detroit when I had to 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.160 cut my hair for he was. He was an amazing, 0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:18.520 amazing mentor for me for some years. And you know 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:21.240 that bridge between R and B and rock and roll, 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:24.639 He's traveled across that bridge many a time. I definitely 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:27.000 look up to him when it comes to that. And 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.320 you know, for me, because I played multiple instruments, you know, 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:33.600 I definitely try to just embody a lot of that energy. 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.200 But but I think we both have the same influences 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:36.600 as well. 0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:40.000 I agree with Lauren on that Miguel to me before 0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:44.280 you was the last great R and B male R 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.000 and B singer. To me, I'm just talking about the 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:49.280 new guy, right, Yeah, you know I'm talking about he 0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:52.560 was the last one, uh to me. And I felt 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:54.119 the same way when I heard Dancing with the Demons. 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:55.600 I feel like I feel like you're talking to yourself 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:56.080 on that record. 0:26:56.280 --> 0:27:01.399 I am, I am, you know it was MI. I 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:03.960 was microdosing on shrooms for a lot of like those 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:07.120 batch of records, and it's it's it's like a very 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:09.679 interesting thing because it connects your neuro pathways in a 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.360 certain way and and you kind of start looking inward 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.960 a lot more. And you know, that record was was 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:18.720 was definitely like an internal conversation. Just on wax. 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:21.040 You said you can't seem to save yourself or never 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:24.440 learn to ask for help, going out all night searching 0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:27.480 for a feeling. Mm hm, So so what what what 0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:28.960 have you learned to ask for help? 0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:31.159 And so what I thought, because I took it as 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:33.280 it wasn't talking about a woman at. 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:37.199 Some point, well, I mean it's it's it's interesting for me, 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.879 like that record. When I wrote it, I wrote it 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.679 in two different days. The first day I was, you know, 0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.320 micro dosing on shrooms, so it's a bit of a haze. 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.080 The next day I listened to it and I was like, man, 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:49.480 this is really poignant stuff. I mean, it's just really 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:52.919 talking about being up all night and searching for a feeling, 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:55.960 and it's trying to fill voids. I feel like as uh, 0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:58.360 you know, when you're in your single journey, you can 0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:00.359 you can try to fill a void with a with 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:04.480 a stranger, and that's not always very healthy. And it 0:28:04.520 --> 0:28:06.919 could be fun. It could be fun, for sure, But 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.639 but but and then especially when you're when you're in 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:11.960 the limelight. The second verse is more so talking about 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:15.040 being in the limelight and trying to fill voice. Nobody 0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:18.040 really talks about the darkness that comes with the flashing lights. 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:21.359 And yeah, that that that record was very deep and 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.400 very personal for me. You know, I'm glad that people 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:24.080 resonate with it. 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:25.800 You said never learned to ask for help? 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:30.400 Yeah, well, I mean I think it's It's really interesting 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:35.040 because one of the experiences I had with therapy was 0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:37.800 I was with a therapist and I'm talking about all 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:39.680 this deep stuff in my life and you know, trying 0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:41.600 to unpack things, and at the end of it, he's like, 0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:44.760 have you ever been to a basketball game courtside? What's that? 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:45.040 Like? 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.080 He just started asking like all this stuff about like 0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:51.320 like being being famous essentially, And I don't know. It 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:53.400 was just like an awkward moment for me, a place 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:56.440 where I thought I could be safe in that one instance. 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:58.840 Since then, I've found a really good therapist. But in 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:00.719 that moment, it was that finely one of those things 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:04.200 where it's like, damn, it's hard to ask for help 0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:06.000 because even when you ask for it, sometimes you don't 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:06.760 get the right kind. 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.160 I think when you're a black man, especially a black 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:12.680 man in your position, it's hard to find culturally competent 0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:15.880 therapist because there's a lot of things that you're going 0:29:15.960 --> 0:29:19.320 to deal with that you're going to want somebody to understand. 0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:23.160 Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, man. But you know, 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.560 shout out to the great therapists out there, you know, definitely, 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:29.400 it's definitely an amazing journey that that I'm trying to 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:32.040 dig back into a lot more as as I continue 0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:32.920 to grow as a human being. 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.440 Now you're talking about micro dosin on shrooms, But what 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.120 does that put your mind? And do you always do 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:38.240 that to produce and write? 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:42.320 Nah? Nah, I mean, I think I think for this 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:47.200 this album, it was an interesting opportunity to kind of unplug. 0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:49.400 I mean, I wasn't doing as many shows around that 0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:52.920 time too, so it was really helpful to to kind 0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:54.680 of just get into my own head and try to 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.560 figure out who I am. You know, I definitely did 0:29:57.600 --> 0:29:59.320 a lot of manifest and a lot of just like 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:01.720 writing who I wanted to be as a human being 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:05.040 around that time, a lot of journaling, you know, and 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:07.640 looking back at that season in my life, it was 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.240 it was a journey for me to evolve into who 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.360 I am right now. I wouldn't suggest people just go 0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:16.320 super crazy on shrooms or anything, but I think microdosing, 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:18.440 you know, a small amount could be healthy if you're 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.800 trying to just find yourself, you know, And at that time, 0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:23.080 I was trying to find myself, you know. 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:24.040 Yeah, microdose. 0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:27.040 Yeah, I don't really do nothing for me do it 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:29.080 just makes me it feels like everything is an HD. 0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:32.440 Right, Yeah, But I mean if you got real things 0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:34.120 that you're trying to deal with internally, I think it 0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:35.800 can you know, put that in HD as well. 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:36.560 In Washington. 0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:39.160 Yeah, now see that that I mean, you know, I 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:42.000 feel like I need to go down and live some 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.080 more life before I really hit that that that will 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.760 Smith journey. You know, he always talks about eye and stuff, but. 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:49.080 You only do it when it calls you. 0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:51.080 Yeah, exactly, Like for me, I was calling me for 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:53.480 like six I say, about six years, seven years it 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:53.840 was calling me. 0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:55.120 I did it for the first time last year. 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:57.400 Oh wow, wow, wow, how was that for you? 0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:00.520 Incredible? I did a three day, three day journey man. 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.760 Yeah, yeah, my boy, his dad runs like a whole 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:07.640 situation and I think Mexico or something, uh for like 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:09.120 ayahuasca and stuff. So I don't know. 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:11.360 Maybe one day you said you were trying to find yourself. 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:12.360 Did you find yourself? 0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:12.920 Yeah? 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:14.600 But I mean I feel like that's a constant journey. 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:17.720 That's like the whole part of finding yourself. You realize it. 0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:21.160 It never stops because we're always evolving, you know. But 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:23.200 it's it's great that I was able to do it 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:25.200 through music. That that that was like a version of 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:27.360 musical therapy for me. And I'm glad that people are 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:28.360 resonating with it, you know. 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:31.960 And I love how you're normalizing dogs on but I'm 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:35.160 not a dog anymore. There is a young, unhealed version 0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:38.040 of me that would have really appreciated that that record, 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:41.840 because you make it sound so fun. It's almost like 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:46.840 women are just gonna bring you in, like me domesticate you. 0:31:46.920 --> 0:31:47.200 Nah. 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:49.920 I mean, I was really just documenting what I saw, 0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:56.080 but nah, nah nah, it's definitely it's definitely to me. 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.840 You post, you know, post breakup where where I just 0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:04.480 had to I just had to figure it out. But 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:06.600 I think that's all a part of living, you know. 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:11.000 Do you get nervous though this was a post breakup album. Yeah, 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:13.520 this is a post breakup album. So this is me documenting, 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.320 you know, finding myself. First off, like you know, you 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:18.640 you're you're kind of broken after that, and then you 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:20.320 got to you gotta put the pieces back together. 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:21.120 Her fault. 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.160 Yes, No, that's not her faults, our fault. 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:26.240 It's her fault that you ended up being a dog. 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:27.280 You went through your whole figure. 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:32.080 Wait, so when you did Electric Dust, you said that 0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:34.400 you were happily single during that project too. 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:36.320 Yeah, you saw the relationship after that. 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:38.960 Here's a deal. When I was when I was making Mutt. 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.400 When I was making Mutt, it was at the same 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:46.960 time that I had released Electric Dust. Like I started 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.200 Mutt at the exact same time that I was releasing 0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:53.360 the Electric Dust. So we were at our tail end 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:56.840 when I was doing how Fast of our relationship and 0:32:56.880 --> 0:33:01.120 then everything after that was breakup. So the first record 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.600 was like the only season where we were still together, 0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:06.680 and then like after that was me just kind of 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:10.200 you know, coming through my brain trying to figure things out, 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:12.560 nights in La wilding out, you know what I'm saying. 0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:15.520 But I think it it all turned into great music, 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:17.400 So you know, I'm glad I'm here to tell the story. 0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:18.320 Did a woman ever tell you that? 0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:18.560 For real? 0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:20.120 Like, take your time? Don't you rushing? 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:24.360 Yeah? Well, I mean, you know, I don't know. I 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:26.840 think that's a that's a that's an interesting bar because yeah, 0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:28.840 yeah it was. It was definitely a time, you know, 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:31.000 take your time. That's low down baby. 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:31.360 Yeah. 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:33.720 I think I think everybody should go through their whole phases, 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.120 men and women. You should go through that phase where 0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:38.840 you get to just be free and be who you 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:40.920 are or who you want to lay down. 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:42.760 We get it, that whole phase with brothers Man's. 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.960 Yeah, it's nasty that. 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.480 You're super famous. Your face, everything about your super recognizable. 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.160 So how do you like? I don't know if you 0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:52.760 out the whole phase yet or not, but yeah, yeah, 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:55.600 how how did you because we hear about you? 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:58.120 Yeah? Yeah, No, I mean I think it's just important 0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.480 to really stay focused on being grounded and nice to 0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:04.040 people and communicate, you know, that was the biggest thing. 0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:07.800 But I'm definitely in the journey of you know, trying 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:09.719 to find my person right now. I know that may 0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:12.040 sound corny to certain people, but I think, you know, 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.960 for me, I've seen so many examples of a huge artists, 0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:19.360 very rich people who don't necessarily have love and a 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:22.560 support system around them outside of their family, and I 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:24.400 want to build that for myself in my thirties. You know, 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:26.560 I'm thirty one right now, so I'm looking forward to 0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:29.640 like having that. You know, at the end of it all. 0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:30.800 You got about five more years. 0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:33.440 Yeah, yeah, but I mean, you know, when trying to 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:35.479 figure it out, Yeah, when I find the right person 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:36.760 on that down. 0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:38.319 It's gonna be hard for you to find that right 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.040 person because of who you are, you know what I'm saying, Like, 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:42.680 I know my woman for twenty six years, they've been 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:43.200 with this woman for. 0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:44.680 What thirty thirty is, you know what I mean. 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:47.560 It's like it's gonna be hard for you just because 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:49.040 you are Leon Thomas. 0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:50.359 You don't even know if girls like you for you 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:50.719 for real? 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:54.919 Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'll figure it out. Yeah. 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.239 I think it's very commendable too that on the song 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.480 safe Place, you let the person you're deal with No 0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:01.600 this isn't a safe place. 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:07.919 Yeah, yeah, I mean I think knowing that I wasn't 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.120 necessarily ready to settle down. I think that conversation definitely 0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:12.759 came up a lot during I guess you were calling 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.600 my whole face, you know, just understanding like, yo, I'm 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.520 I'm not trying to settle down. This is a this 0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:20.279 is a fun place, you know. This is a time 0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:23.480 period where I'm just figuring me out. Work is crazy, 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:27.040 it's ecnic, you know. And I think having that conversation 0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:31.360 was important to to, like you said, just avoid people 0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:33.759 not understanding what it was at the time, you. 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:35.759 Feel, Lauren, Like if you when you're a woman and 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.000 a guy comes you and the guy says, I'm a dog, 0:35:38.000 --> 0:35:39.839 I'm a mutter a god said, look baby, we can 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:40.160 kick it. 0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:41.200 But just in the same place. 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:43.480 I think it depends on the type of woman you are. 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:46.000 You know, she's that person, she's the one. 0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:54.000 That tells don't listen to them, don't listen to them, No, 0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:58.600 you are lying. I think that you can appreciate honesty, 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:00.799 but I also think that the honest it's unrealistic on 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.320 both sides, because eventually, if you're spending enough time together 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:05.839 regardless of what space is not you kind of get 0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:07.680 in the habit even if you're not attached. 0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:09.680 No, not of lying, but like of wanting to be 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:10.360 with that person. 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:11.239 Yeah, yea. 0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:14.239 Then emotions and feelings come that you both said in 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:17.080 the beginning, weren't it doesn't work out, the safe space 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:20.560 becomes it's exploding it like everybody's all over the place emotions. 0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:23.040 That's something I didn't really you know, identify in the song. 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.440 But yeah, she's it's a person because you're honest in music. 0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:28.720 But it's difficult to be face to face with somebody 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:30.840 and be like it's very it's very difficult. 0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:34.520 It's very difficult. But I try, you know, I really 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:36.080 try my best to be as honest as I can, 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:40.080 you know. But yeah, those are hard conversations, man. You know, 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.400 I can't sit here and say I've always done it 0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:45.400 right or I'm perfect or anything. But I try. I 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:47.840 try to be like real, you know. I try to 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:50.880 explain myself. But even when you explain yourself, sometimes wires 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.719 get crossed, you know. So I'm packing it and communicating, 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:54.839 you know, it's an important thing. 0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:57.279 Later on, No woman won't hear that after she just 0:36:57.320 --> 0:36:57.960 lets you hit ro. 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:00.839 Yeah, it's yeah, it's not as a woman ever said 0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:02.880 that to you when you were trying to like create, 0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:04.520 Like all right, maybe this is like a thing. 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:06.839 She's like, Yo, remember I. 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:07.520 Don't want to do that. 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:11.600 Yeah. Actually yeah yeah. In my in my early twenties, 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:15.239 I was talking to this amazing artist and yeah, she 0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:18.000 was just like listen baby, the same safe place kind 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:20.640 of thing. You know, anybody know now She's like, no, no, no, 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:22.200 I don't think you can tear it up a little bit. 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:24.640 Yeah no, no, no. It was all good for me at 0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:25.440 that point. 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:29.680 A little bit. 0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.239 But yeah, yeah, you know, it was definitely you know, 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:35.080 it was definitely a realization for me. I was like, oh, 0:37:35.320 --> 0:37:36.960 it can happen on that side too. I was like 0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:40.359 twenty maybe twenty one, you know. Yeah, yeah, so I 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.919 was like real young, you know, green Like, oh okay, alright, cool. 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.239 So you're all looking for a relationship now if the 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:46.680 right person. 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.200 Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely I'm definitely in that mode right now. 0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:52.320 Are you would you date other like artists, celebrities or 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:53.919 do you like, how does that work? 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:54.399 Are you doing? 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:56.680 It's just tactic. I mean, you're kind of inviting the 0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:59.759 media into your life, like the one safe place you have. 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.880 But I mean, who knows if I really catch a 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:05.640 vibe with somebody who happens to be fan. I mean, 0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:07.440 I don't really care about that side of things, you know. 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:09.359 I've been in the game a long time. I've met 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:12.080 some beautiful women who are amazing artists. But it's just 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.480 about the human being, you know, And it can be 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:17.960 tough to to really build something if both of your 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:21.319 schedules are super hectic. So I don't know. 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.560 Even that's difficult though, because you could be dating a 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:27.120 female artist who may be using you for your pen using. 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:30.840 For you never know, You never know. But I mean, regardless, 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:33.279 I feel like there's it doesn't matter. There's always an 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:36.520 ebb and flow of like people using you for something. 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.239 You know, it's it's a given take no matter how 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:41.280 you really look at it. I think it's just important 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:44.120 to at least be with somebody who genuinely cares and 0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:47.520 unpacking enough to get behind the facade. That is the 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.400 first six month filter I like to call it, when 0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:53.279 people are acting all upright and righteous. You know, after 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:56.240 those six months you can really usually unpack and find 0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:58.560 like a good idea of who that person is. 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:00.080 So what does a safe place look like? 0:39:00.120 --> 0:39:03.799 For Leon Thomas, A safe place, you know, for me 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.880 is being able to be honest with that person. And 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.920 I'm goofy in real life, you know, so I want 0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:13.840 to have fun. You know, life can be kind of serious, 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:15.719 So so I like my partner to be able to 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:17.840 have a good time with me, you know, watch movies, 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:20.440 go kick it, run around, you know, like like be 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:21.360 a big kid with me. 0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:23.719 You also, you had an interesting line in the song 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:26.319 where in a Safe Place where you say you put 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:28.000 that on your trauma, and like. 0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:30.160 Trauma is something that we're all trying to heal. 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.160 From, right Like you like a badge honor almost, like 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:34.920 you put that on my mom, put that on my 0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:36.160 mom on the home. 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:38.400 Why do you put that on the trauma? Like what 0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:38.879 does that mean? 0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:41.880 I mean, I think it all kind of plays into 0:39:42.320 --> 0:39:46.040 the reasoning for why it's not a safe place, you know. 0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:48.280 But but but it was a bit of a badge 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:51.560 of honor in that record for sure, for sure, because 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:55.080 I think we should we should be able to wear 0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:58.400 our traumas in a way of being survivors of epic 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:02.080 things and being able to move move past that and 0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:04.719 evolve from that. You know, m. 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:06.960 Well, let's you want to get into a joint. 0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:08.760 I don't want to ask him a question too about 0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:12.160 another record on far Affetched. Yeah, you said, because he 0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:14.319 was having a big conversation to speak about tricking, because 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:15.919 you know, Skip Bail is a legendly Oh my god, 0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:18.680 over somebody one point five and you say paid for 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:22.000 my mistakes and benzes and diamonds too, fifty fronted like 0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:24.840 you was my artist. Five g's just across the Atlantic. 0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:26.560 We sat in silence for almost two hours. 0:40:27.239 --> 0:40:28.680 Yeah, that's a horrible BACA. 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:32.040 Quarter million dollars. Yeah, benzes and diamonds. 0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:35.399 Well, listen, when I wrote that record, it was not 0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:38.400 for me. That was not a joint that I was 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:40.839 originally gonna use for me. It was for somebody really 0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:42.960 famous and really rich. But I just love the way 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:44.560 it sounded, and I was like, well, you know what, 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:46.920 I love to speak in a world where I can 0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:49.160 actually afford that, why not let's manifest that. 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:51.799 Don't you feel as an R and B artist though, 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:53.759 when you write records for other people, but then you 0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:57.200 sing to yourself, you're setting an expectation that's not real 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:57.719 for you. 0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:00.320 Because if I'm here, it's. 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.759 It's hard, you know, like like I mean, I look 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.439 at artists like Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osmore really wasn't eating 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:10.800 thats like, but it's like it's it's so funny because 0:41:10.800 --> 0:41:16.279 like in like in and well accidentally but but but 0:41:16.320 --> 0:41:18.480 the whole thing is is that in rock and roll 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.000 and pop, they get to live in these fantasy worlds. 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.600 But it's so interesting in R and B and hip hop, 0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:26.200 it's it's like, so it has to be so really 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:29.960 based and it's like, nah, I think it's important for 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.640 us to be able to imagine and dream and create 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:37.239 worlds that don't exist sometimes because I think that won't 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.719 stifle new artists from continuing to do the same thing, 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:43.879 like dream up the biggest thing. You know. Drake even 0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:45.319 said in some of his bars back in the day 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:47.759 he was talking about rolls voices and Bentley's and shit 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:50.480 he just didn't have you know at the time. So 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.160 it's essentially me doing the same thing. And I always 0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:58.240 speak you know, future future focused, you know, abundance mindset. 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:00.360 You know, I'm trying to build a world where you know, 0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:02.000 I can definitely definitely afford that. 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:03.839 So why not so you would trick, you would give 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:04.040 a girl. 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:06.919 You know what, That's not how I be spending my money, 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:10.799 Charlot Mane, but just the fact that I could afford it. 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:14.320 You know, let's go in Lucid Dreams, you talk about 0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:16.320 just significant other leaving things behind. 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:18.080 Yeah, that was a that was a fun record with 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:19.440 Massego after a breakup. 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.760 Why do you think that topic is taboo? 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:25.359 I don't really consider it taboo necessarily, but I think 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:29.120 it's just like it's just funny because for me, I 0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:30.799 was living with my ex for like a couple of years, 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:33.680 so she just had like a closet filled with clothes 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:36.319 at my crib and it had been like a year 0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.279 and a half since we were broken up, so we 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.200 were we were in the in the studio talking about 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:44.200 different things. Uh. The guitarist and producer on that song 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:48.920 Freaky Rob his girl left a flat screen at the 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:51.360 house that he had to use to watch Netflix, and 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:53.560 he was like, man, when's she gonna take this flat screen? 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:56.800 And uh, you know, Massego also had a similar situation 0:42:56.960 --> 0:42:59.239 like that at his crib with the couch. So we 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:01.560 were all just kind of using all of our different 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.799 experiences putting it into a song, and you know, just 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:05.279 locking it in. 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:06.480 It's different when it's closed. 0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:08.720 Yeah, did you clear you cleared out the yeah, definitely 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:10.480 clears out the Yeah, yeah, clear out the closet. 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:12.120 Did you move out of the apartment or you just 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:12.840 cleared out the closing. 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:14.719 Nah, I'm still at the crib, you know what I mean, 0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:17.400 still at the crib. You know, there's definitely a certain 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.480 interior design choices I'm gonna switch up. 0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:23.480 So but it's like real recent yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:25.840 You think these labels know how to market R and 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:27.359 B nowadays, especially Male RB. 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:30.400 I think it's it's kind of it's kind of interesting 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:32.960 because we used to have one O six in park. 0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:36.000 We used to have like a different perspective on R 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:38.440 and B, and I feel like the fantasy could be 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.520 alive in a different way. You know, a lot of 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:44.560 the music is driven by culture recently, which I think 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.200 is dope. But but but R and B is definitely 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:49.480 a place of fantasy, you know, Jodasy in the desert 0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:51.680 and leather, like, you know, it's like it's like a 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:54.359 very ethereal place sometimes when you really look at it. 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:56.760 So I think it's really tough for labels to find 0:43:56.800 --> 0:44:00.600 that that balance and especially because most and b artists 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:04.560 are like really inspired by by alternative music. So you know, 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:08.360 you got you know, your babies of Scissor and of 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:11.879 you know, Brand and Miguel even and it's it's kind 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:13.560 of hard. It's not the same thing they used to 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:15.040 have to market and a lot of those same. 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.359 Executive as options, right because you think about it, before 0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:20.080 the label gave people what they wanted to hear, oh 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:21.440 for sure, But now it's like you put out an 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:23.040 album and it's almost like they wait to see what's 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.640 on connects first, exactly what connects We're gonna go with Mutt, 0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:27.760 you know, dance with Demons connects. 0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:29.759 So I think you give people of an option and 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:30.799 allow people to pick their. 0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:32.279 Own when they connect, they still don't know what the 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:32.719 hell to do. 0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:36.279 Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's tough. It's tough, man, 0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:38.960 it's tough. I definitely don't envy their seat right now, 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:43.480 trying to figure out how to navigate through nine different platforms, uh, 0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:46.279 social media, a TikTok that's about to go away in 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.439 a couple of months, and like Frank McCort, you think, so, Frank, 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:53.040 all right, bet, But regardless of ship's fucking nuts, like 0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:55.799 everybody trying to figure it out. Like it's really hard, 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:57.520 it's really hard to deal with, you know. 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.640 So yeah, and it I don't feel like it's a 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:04.160 separation either, right because if I look at Leon Thomas, 0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:06.600 he looks like a rapper cunty, you know what I mean, 0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:08.360 Like like there there used to be a look to 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:09.120 R and B sing. 0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:12.279 But your aesthetic is like fashion your shows, like the lighting. 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:13.440 I don't know if you did that a purpose, but 0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:15.040 like the light shoes and stuff like that, it all 0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:18.000 gives like an art creative like it's the vibe. 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:20.040 But like, yeah, I'm. 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.600 Saying what I want. No, I mean, I'm doing what 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:25.280 i want. Man, you know, I'm really just I'm really 0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:27.880 just rocking, you know. I mean I think for those 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:29.680 of us out there in the R and B world 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:31.319 who want to have, you know, the six pack and 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:33.359 do the gy rating and the baby oil and shit, 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:37.480 like you know, do you think? But no, But what 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:39.479 I'm saying is is that like like like the whole 0:45:39.600 --> 0:45:43.239 vibe of it is is is a that's its own thing. 0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:46.520 I think what I'm creating creatively is my own world 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:49.120 and it's it's it's rooting and rock and roll. It's 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.360 rooting and doing what I want to do, you know, 0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:55.000 and and I'm I'm glad I have the creative control 0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:56.440 to go there. You know. 0:45:56.640 --> 0:45:59.000 That's the beauty of R and B artists though, because 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.360 there's so many RNs B artists that are just ugly, 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:06.000 but their music is so good that women love them. 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:07.719 I mean like actually ugly, not. 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:12.760 Just like cosmetically challenged cosmetically, but they get on stage 0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:15.360 and they do that the deflexing and the singing, and 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:17.200 women they freaking mind. 0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:19.799 Right right, right, right, right right. What you're not calling 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:21.400 I was about to say, I'm. 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:25.640 Like beauty because there's so many ugly not at all. 0:46:25.560 --> 0:46:28.480 For sure, It's not my place to say, for real, 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:29.439 la is the ugly? 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:32.080 All right? Thank you, thank you, Lauren. 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:33.719 Can we get into a song of that album? 0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:35.680 What you want to would be amazing this morning? 0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:36.560 What you want to hear? Right now? 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:38.279 Let's play? Yes it is? It would be really cool? 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:40.480 All right, Well, let's get into it right now. Yes 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:42.600 it is. The album is out right now, make sure 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.440 you pick it up. And we appreciate you for joining us. 0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:46.000 Thank you so much for having me. Man, it's a 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:46.839 big opportunity. 0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:47.799 Thank you so much. 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.040 It's Leon Thomas the album What is out Now, and 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:51.680 it's The Breakfast Club, Good Morning. 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:53.800 Wake that ass up in the morning. 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:54.920 Breakfast Club