WEBVTT - Rerun: The Dangers of Public WiFi 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.720 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.160 Jonathan Strickland. I am an executive producer with I Heart 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.560 Radio and I love all things tech. And originally I 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.520 had intended to bring you a third installment on our 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:29.880 home theater basics, but stuff got got piled up. I 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.080 had to record episodes of a couple of other podcasts, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.760 one of which is a spooky podcast that will be 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.080 coming out later this year. UH can't say a whole 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.560 lot about it, except it's not twelve days of Halloween 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:48.239 and it's not fourteen days of Halloween somewhere in between. Anyway, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.080 Because of that, I got a little bit behind. So 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.720 we're going to have a rerun today of an episode 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:59.440 that published on Christmas Day in two thousand nineteen. UH 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.440 Spend guest Shannon Morrise joined the show to talk about 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.000 the dangers of public WiFi. So I hope you enjoy 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.920 this episode. Let's sit back and listen. There's a topic 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.680 that I really wanted to cover because as I record this, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.640 we're in the holiday season. A lot of people are traveling, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.679 They're going through airports, maybe you're visiting family and occasionally 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.200 you need to find a place to be elsewhere, like 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.080 maybe a coffee shop or something. That typically means we're 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.160 carrying our devices with us, and then we want to 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:35.319 connect to different networks. But that might not always be 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.240 a great idea, and so I decided I was going 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.840 to do an episode all about the best ways to 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.880 browse the Internet with privacy and safety in mind, going 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.280 from the least private and the least secure to perhaps 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.120 the most private and most secure. And then I thought, hey, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.680 you dumb, dumb You know people who are extremely well 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.440 versed in this topic, and that's why I invited my 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.800 good friend, the phenomenal Shannon More to join this episode 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.720 to come back. So welcome back to Tech Stuff, Shannon. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.240 Thank you so much. Jonathan. I'm so excited to be 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.600 back on the show. How are you doing. I'm tired. 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:13.520 But it's at the end of the year, so that 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.720 always happens, right like, And here's the thing, you know, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.240 Shannon can tell you. In fact, we were just talking 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.639 about it before we went on to the record that 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.360 the tech journalists life does not get easier at the 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.960 end of the year because you immediately turn around and 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.120 head off to Vegas for ce S and that's where 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:38.080 you're gonna be in early January, as I understand it, right, Shannon, Yes, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.320 I will. I'll be there all week covering everything over 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.880 on my channel, so make sure to link everybody to 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.440 my channel later, absolutely, because I ain't going folks. So 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.200 Shannon's your your your destination for finding all the really 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.240 cool stuff. And uh, Shannon, I can say from experience 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.960 because I've watched her work does amazing work. Not just 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.840 at c yes, but we were, but particularly like under 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.560 a high stress situation like c e S, certain people 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.440 can light up under the camera. And uh, I'm frankly 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.160 envious of your ability to do so. So um, that's 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.880 me be nice. Yeah, well, I mean I could be 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.960 more caddy about it, but I'm gonna be nice. The 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.400 Caddy would be like, how dare she? How dare she 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.680 show me up? But no, we're gonna talk about browsing safely. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.760 So the first thing I wanted to do before we 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.960 get into the spectrum of browsing the Internet, because you 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:39.520 could argue that there's like the least safe, secure, naive 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.839 way to do it to what is perhaps the most 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.680 secure but not perfect. There's no perfect solution spoiler alert. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:48.920 Before we get into any of that, I wanted to 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.640 talk about some stats, and these come from a few 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.080 different sources. Uh. One was a survey that was conducted 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.280 by one World Identity back in about public wi fi. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.600 So this was just asking people about their perception and 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.000 their use of public WiFi. And Shannon, I kind of 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.960 wanted to get your reaction to this because being someone 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.720 who has been so entrenched in data security in the 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.719 hacker culture in you know, everything from how do we 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.839 make these systems more secure, to the white hat approach 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.720 of how do we find any vulnerability so that they 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.880 can be patched, to even the black hat culture where 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.359 people are exploiting this for their own gain. I wanted 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.440 to see what you thought about these stats. So the 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.360 first one was they asked a question to people in 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.320 the United States, in Germany and in France, and the 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.679 question they asked was do you ever use unsecured public 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:50.679 WiFi networks in the United States? So nearly half said, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.520 you know, if there's no other option, sure, I'll do it. 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.280 Thirty two percent actually said I prefer using public WiFi 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.760 to using my cellular plan. Uh. Person sumably because they 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.640 would not be billed for data usage right because they're 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.920 using WiFi instead of their cell data only said they 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.200 never did it. One percent said they do it, but 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.760 only with a VPN. But we'll cover VPNs a little 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.400 bit later. So, Shannon, you've you've talked with hackers. What 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.120 do you think their reaction initially would be hearing that 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.680 nearly fifty of people in the United States said yeah, 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.599 you know, if there's no other connection, I'll I'll connect 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.920 to public WiFi, and another thirty two percent and I said, oh, heck, yeah, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.880 sign me up. Well, I'm definitely in the one percent 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.840 of only with a VPN, and and that's assuming that 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.680 I have absolutely no other option. So I'm kind of 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.360 a mix of the and the one percent, but only 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.520 only if I have a vp n UM. I would 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.640 say from my experience, all of my friends would probably 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.000 not be surprised by the tent that prefer public WiFi 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.760 over their cellular plants, specifically because of what you said, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.320 they'll be able to save money, especially if they don't 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.560 have an unlimited plan through their mobile carriers. So in 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.320 that way, it makes sense, uh that say yes, if 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:15.240 there's no other option, there's always another option. Come on, folks, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.279 what are you doing? Where are you at? Yeah? I 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.080 mean we we have such good cellular coverage now there's 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.240 always another option, even if you just have three G 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.520 like that's manageable from most tasks. So what what are 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.039 they doing? I'm just my draw My job kind of 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:33.960 dropped a little bit when I heard that number. I 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.800 just thought it was I thought that I'm doing a 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.240 much better job of educating people about the importance of 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.200 not using public WiFi, and apparently I'm not doing my 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.919 job as well as I should have been, or or 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.400 the people who are already kind of hip to it 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.960 are the ones watching you, going yeah, she gets it, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.760 she knows, and the people who need to see it 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.080 are like what's on the masked Singer today or whatever? 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.640 You know, Like so, yeah, I I look at this 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.400 and I think, man if I were a black hat, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.359 I would just be doing the Mr Burns excellent. Just 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.440 you're over and over again just drooling at that opportunity, 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:16.480 because you know, public WiFi is definitely the most dangerous 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.160 option you can pick when you're talking about protecting your 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.120 own privacy and security, especially if you're not doing something 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.440 like using a VPN. UH spoiler alert will talk more 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.200 about that in a second. And so knowing that you're 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:34.680 your opportunity for targets is so vast has got to 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:39.480 be incredibly encouraging to someone who is ready to exploit that. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.320 And that's really, you know, that's what we're trying to 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.680 protect everyone against, is you know, it's the likelihood of 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.760 you running into these situations is not necessarily high on 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.480 a day to day basis, but the opportunity is so 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.880 huge that you need to take it into account no 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.800 matter where you happen to be. So you you want 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.640 to make yourself the hard target. You want to be 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.880 the person that makes people work really hard to get 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:05.880 access to your data. You don't want to be the 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.520 easy target, because the easier target you are, the more 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.960 often you're going to be targeted. You don't want that. No, no, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.559 And I was actually talking to a co worker today 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.680 and I said, honestly, when you look at data security, 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.040 even when you're talking like you always get naysayers who 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.800 will say, oh, sure you can use this, but it 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.400 doesn't protect you against everything, And they may technically be right, 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.160 but my answer is the harder you make it. Effectively, 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.360 what that means is you're making it more expensive for 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.920 someone to successfully target you. So if you price yourself 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.760 out where it would cost them more to break your security, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.880 then they would get from whatever they took from you. 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.880 You win, because no one's going to lose money on that. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.240 Uh exactly. It's when you've made it so convenient that 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.920 it's like it's like it's like when someone says about 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.160 a sale, I would lose money if I didn't buy that. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.480 That's when you're in Yeah, yes, exactly, it's they're looking 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.800 for the bargain deal. And a lot of times when 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.960 a black hat is looking at public WiFi as a 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.000 way to access information, they're in tending to profit off 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.360 of that information, whether by stealing an idea, identity, or 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.160 reselling that data on the black market, like on the 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.600 dark web. So making yourself the hard target is absolutely 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.520 crucial to helping to protect you. Yeah. And and just 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.880 so that you guys out there, no, I mean I 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.000 mentioned the United States numbers. It's not like Germany and 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.600 France were shining examples of data privacy and security among 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.800 the public. In Germany, in fact, of respondents said they'd 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.960 used unsecured, unsecured public WiFi over their cellular data, So 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.720 it was even a larger percentage than the United States. 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.000 And the United States it was that it said, oh yeah, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.200 I've got a choice, I'll use public over my cellular data. 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.400 In Germany it was fort um and and said they 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.400 would use it if they could not get a cellular option. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.319 And then in France it was closer to what the 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.280 United States said, said they preferred using public WiFi to 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.840 using their cellular data, and forty percent said they'd used 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.480 it if they couldn't get any other option. So again 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.080 that mirrored very closely what the folks in the United 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.960 States said. So this is a trend that goes beyond 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.800 the US. I know that because I'm centered in the US, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.559 I often get very US centric, And I also tend 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:34.360 to harp on how American citizens in particular seemed to 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:39.680 come across to me as being security illiterate for in 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.640 a in large part, I mean, I just see it 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.560 all the time, But I don't know if it's not 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.200 exactly reassuring to see that that way in other parts 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.800 of the world. That doesn't fill me with confidence. I 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.000 think a lot of times people either don't know where 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.960 to look for the information, for accessible information that's that 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.920 that's explained in a way that is it's scary, or 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:06.079 doesn't you know, create create emotions of paranoia or just 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.400 close people down so that they just get lose interest insecurity. Uh. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.160 And you also have a lot of folks out there 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.120 that just don't care. But I think a lot of 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.840 people do care, they just don't know where to look 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.360 for this kind of information. So I'm glad that you, Jonathan, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.000 as well as myself on my channel, we're putting that 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.600 information out there in a way that's easy to understand, 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.520 and I'm hoping that even if it just helps one 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.760 person understand a little bit better security and privacy, hopefully 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:38.320 we change that percentage over time. Absolutely, I agree. I think, uh, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.640 it can be one of those situations where you get 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.679 overwhelmed by the scope of something. And when you get overwhelmed, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.439 it's almost like there's a defense mechanism in your brain, right, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.160 It's like this is too hard, so I can't worry 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.000 about it. And I have seen this in action when 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.440 trying to tell people about like password managers, for example, 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.760 and lead shut down. They have no interest. They get 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.360 glassy eyed, and they just say, well, I don't see 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.640 what the point is on I try to explain the point. 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.120 But as after that point, it's just it's just like 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.679 talking through talking through the air. They just don't want 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.640 anything to do with it. And and as someone who 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:20.160 relies heavily on a password manager like it is, it's 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.360 it's fundamentally one of the most important tools in my 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.559 toolbox to make certain that I don't do rookie mistakes 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.600 like using the same password for multiple accounts. Right because 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.920 as as we'll discuss as we get into this discussion 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.280 about safely browsing the Internet, one of the big dangers 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.559 is that if you, through accident or or your tricked 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.480 or whatever, if you somehow share your log in information 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.560 for one service. Let's say that you have one service 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.160 that isn't using uh secure encryption for some reason. First 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.880 of all, don't do that, But if you are, if 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.440 you're using that same password anywhere else, it's like you 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.880 just handed a skeleton key to somebody, because now they 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.880 can access everything you've used that password with. I mean, 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.160 this is this is blatantly obvious. So that's why it's 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.240 so important to have unique, strong passwords for all the 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.240 different services you use. That way, if one if worst 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:22.319 case scenario one gets compromised, it doesn't compromise everything else. Yes, absolutely, 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.160 I'm glad you mentioned that because the more different things 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.040 that you use that help your security and privacy, every 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.040 single step you take absolutely helps. And that's just one 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.959 of the many steps that you can take. Every single 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.080 consumer in the world does not have to take all 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.520 of these steps all at once, because that would be 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.920 quite mind boggling. But if you do take steps towards 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.200 these over time, you can increase your privacy and security 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.160 two fold times fold. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, I mean 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.880 and and and to be fair, like like I'm going 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.760 to be upfront guys, like I used to be the 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.559 dude who had like three passwords and for everything. Yeah, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.439 I was like that for years until until I finally 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.160 like woke up to how dangerous that was. I was 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.880 fortunate in that I was never knowingly anyway targeted for 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.920 a specific like intrusion. Uh, as far as I know, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.760 I never none of my stuff ever got compromised because 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.680 of that. Stuff has been compromised because of data breaches 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.600 that are beyond our control. But we're really focusing on 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.760 the stuff that we as end users can do to 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.000 improve our security as best we can knowing that we 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.479 live in a world where that's just one point of vulnerability. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.840 That's one point of attack, but it's it's one that 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:42.160 we have some control over another. Another scary statistic, or 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.000 at least I thought it was scary, is that Kaspersky 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.400 did a UH survey back in ten and are They 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.960 did an analysis of thirty two million hot spots, hot 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.440 spots being points of contact where your device connects over 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.880 to the Internet at large, and a hot spot can 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:03.400 be everything from the router in a like a coffee 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.640 shop to your own cell phone you might be using 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.400 that as a portable hot spot. Out of the thirty 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.480 two million hot spots they examined, one quarter of them 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.600 had no encryption in use at all, meaning everything is 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.320 being sent in plain text, which means that if anyone 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.440 has any method of eavesdropping on those communications, they see 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.440 it all, which again blows my mind that there would 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.400 be that many networks that have no encryption in place 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:39.200 at all, not even bad encryption. Yeah, that's a very 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.040 scary number. That's extremely high and is a lot higher 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.880 than what I thought it would be. UH. If if 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.360 they're not using any sort of encryption whatsoever, for a 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.160 hot spot. That means that anybody within that vicinity, within 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.440 range of that device would be able to see everything 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.640 you're doing. It's very, very mind boggling, and this is 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.440 one of the reasons why I wanted to have you 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.920 on the show because we say these things, right, we 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.320 say that when you use public WiFi, you're using if 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.400 you're using an unsecured public WiFi hot spot, especially one 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.040 that is unencrypted, that you are in danger of this. 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.400 And a lot of people say, all right, but exactly 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.960 what's going on? Right? How are they doing this? And 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.080 it's that there are various pieces of software out there 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.880 that allow people who are who get onto a network 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.000 to monitor traffic that's going across that network. I mean, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:39.040 their entire groups out there that make different software and 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:44.840 hardware uh solutions to do just this. Right. Yeah, not 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.640 gonna lie. Um. I used to solder and sell some 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.840 of these products at a company that I used to 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.720 work with called hack five. So I'll definitely share some 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.360 of that information once we get closer to those those 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.560 topics with today's discussion. But yeah, those products exist, They're 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.439 very inexpensive, and some of the software is free, and 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.440 there's tutorials made by yours truly on YouTube that show 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.360 you how to use these things. It's definitely a thing 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.560 that pretty much anybody can introduce themselves to and then 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.639 they will be able to see what's going on on 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.520 a network. And there are different reasons to even do this. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.960 There's obviously there's the nefarious ones that were concerned about, 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.280 but there's also like if you're a network administrator, being 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.320 able to do things like monitor network traffic and see 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.960 points of congestion education as well. Yeah, there's like there's 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.680 there are legit reasons to use that sort of technology 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.800 that don't that don't immediately point to to the to 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.960 the road of I'm here to steal all your infos. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.720 It's like there's stuff that where this is used in 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.480 quote unquote legitimate purposes. I mean like packet sniffers. That's 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.439 something that sounds like it's underhanded and shady, but they 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.200 were invented not to try and sniff out what's someone 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.720 else was doing, but literally to help network administrators see 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.200 how network how network traffic was moving across so that 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.600 they could make sure that everything was working properly. So 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.399 but it doesn't mean that you can't think a tool. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.600 A tool is either a tool or a weapon, depending 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.399 upon how you want to use it. And so the 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.560 same stuff that was used to help networks is also 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.720 used to exploit them. Um, exactly, you could say the 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.639 same thing about a kitchen knife. I mean kitchen knives 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.040 to to you know, cut up fruits and veggies. Some 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.119 nefarious people might use one to murder somebody part of me. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.479 But I used the exact same sort of analogy except 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.359 when I was talking to someone earlier today. But it 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.040 was a hammer. But same thing, Like a hammer is 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.359 either something that you're using to to build stuff with 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.199 or it could be used to bludgeon somebody. And it 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.960 all comes down to it's not that the tool itself 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.280 is bad, it's the intent and use of the person 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.119 wielding that tool. And the same is true of technology. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.320 Uh So, one other stat that I wanted to mention 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.919 that's pretty alarming. Norton found out this was in so 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:09.400 it's a few years ago, but Americans had had their 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.200 email hacked at some point, and that twelve percent had 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.800 their financial data stolen while they were shopping online, and 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:23.240 that in four million people globally had been a victim 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.439 of some sort of cyber crime, and that kind of 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.359 shows us the scale of why this is an important topic. 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.480 It's not just because the opportunity is there, it's because 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.840 people are actually actively taking advantage of those opportunities, and 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.639 you could be the victim of one of those actions 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.280 if you're not careful. And we love you absolutely, we 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.160 do love you very much. I'm kind of I'm kind 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.080 of thinking that all of those numbers have probably increased 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.040 given that it's been about four years since they were 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.800 they analyzed the data and had those those too sticks available, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.960 because in the past couple of years we've seen hacks 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.600 go from a few hundred million people to almost a 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:13.320 billion people get hacked online. So it's entirely possible that 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.399 those numbers have increased quite a bit since, especially in 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.159 the realm of the mobile app becoming king right, because 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.280 there's there's such a proliferation of apps out there that 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:31.840 either through a conscious effort, are creating vulnerabilities or because 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.840 of poor design, create vulnerabilities that can later be exploited. 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.320 You know, we've seen so many examples of that where 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.920 an a p I didn't take everything into account and 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.000 then someone was able to exploit it, famous one being 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.640 Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, where you had an app that 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.760 if you installed the app, like you would voluntarily install 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.760 it within your Facebook and you're voluntary lee sharing your 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.520 own information. All of that is fine, right if you've 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.879 agreed to do it such a good not a good idea, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.359 such a good example, good example, Yeah, good example, not 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:09.280 a good idea to do. But it's fine if you 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.280 if you are knowingly doing that, that's fine. But the 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.679 problem that the Cambradge Analytica story brought to bears that 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.399 they took advantage of a loophole in Facebook's API and 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.000 they were able to to phish out a ton of 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.320 information about all the contacts of the people who had 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.040 installed the app. These are people who did not, uh, 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.359 you know, give permission to share their information, but the 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:36.760 app collected all that information regardless. And that's where we see, like, 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:41.760 you know, there were countless victims of this app because 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.480 none of them opted in to share that information. It 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.160 was just taken from them. And uh, that's just one 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.399 little example of the world we live in where you know, 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.320 even when you are being careful, there are there are 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.840 these opportunities for your information to get out there, which 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:00.840 is why we're like this is why you need to 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.600 take the steps necessary to protect yourself as best you can, 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.080 because we live in a world where there are numerous 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.720 attack vectors that point back to us. All right, I 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:16.919 mean just mid December, the New York Times discussed location 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.600 tracking on phones and how ping pings to local towers 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.760 can basically give you a map of a certain phone 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.000 I D and you can track that and figure out 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.080 who that phone belongs to based on what residents and 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.480 what office they go to every day. It's extremely scary, 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.919 and the more information we have about it as consumers, 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.200 the better we can protect ourselves. Yeah, and again, like, uh, 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:43.240 back to what you were just saying, Shannon, Facebook send 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.440 a letter to Congress just a couple of days before 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.880 we record this episode where they said, yeah, even if 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.720 you opted out of location tracking, we actually know where 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:58.280 you are, partly because of the information people are voluntarily sharing. 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.920 Like if I tag If I take a photo while 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.679 I'm at a party and I tagged the location and 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.520 I tag people are in the photo, well, I'm voluntarily 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.000 sharing a lot of information. Maybe those people haven't given 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.920 me permission to do that, but I'm I'm sharing the information. 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.840 So yeah, of course, Facebook knows where I am, when 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.119 I when I'm there, and who I'm with because I 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.720