WEBVTT - Teachers Experiment With Alternatives to Letter Grades

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, March four. I'm Oscar Ramires from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Educators have been experimenting with new grading systems since before

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic, but when everything switched to remote learning and

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<v Speaker 1>students were having a tough time keeping up, many teachers

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<v Speaker 1>did away with the traditional A to F grades. Some

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<v Speaker 1>experiments included relaxing penalties for late or incomplete work and

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<v Speaker 1>retaking exams once an understanding of the material had been established.

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<v Speaker 1>Valerie Strauss, education reporter at the Washington Post, joins us

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<v Speaker 1>for the hunt for a fairer grading system. Thanks for joinings, Valerie,

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<v Speaker 1>glad to be here, Thanks for having me. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about this interesting thing that's going on in

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<v Speaker 1>schools with teachers across the country. Educators are starting to

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<v Speaker 1>experiment with a more tolerant grading system. They're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>maybe do away with the A to F letter grades.

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<v Speaker 1>And what we saw during the pandemic was also pretty

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<v Speaker 1>interesting too. You know, we saw the huge disruption that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was really tough just to do regular assignments

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<v Speaker 1>get the grading done effectively. So a lot of teachers

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<v Speaker 1>were kind of just doing like pass or fail grades,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, different things. They were experimenting with a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. But it seems that this movement has continued

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<v Speaker 1>really and they're just looking for different ways to grade students,

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<v Speaker 1>making sure that at least the student is learning the

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<v Speaker 1>material that's cheap among everything there. So Valry, how is

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<v Speaker 1>this working out? It's an experiment that started in a

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<v Speaker 1>number of places well before the pandemic and then was

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<v Speaker 1>really been spurred on by the pandemic because, as you said,

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<v Speaker 1>kids weren't learning, and it was very difficult to give

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<v Speaker 1>grades based on the traditional metrics because kids weren't going

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<v Speaker 1>through the regular learning process. It's not so much that

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<v Speaker 1>they're getting rid of the A, B, c's and d's

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<v Speaker 1>and f it's that they are just trying to experiment

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<v Speaker 1>with what goes into those grades and trying to make

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<v Speaker 1>them more equitable. For as far as I remember, I

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<v Speaker 1>went to school a long time ago, and it's still

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<v Speaker 1>true that most teachers give grades that in food behaviors

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<v Speaker 1>and behaviors mean or include things like when do you

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<v Speaker 1>turn in an assignment? And offers the opportunity to do

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<v Speaker 1>extra credit to show motivation and things that don't really

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<v Speaker 1>show that you know what, that you know the material,

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<v Speaker 1>that you master the material. And for many teachers, what

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<v Speaker 1>they've realized is that it's inequitable for a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>kids whose home lives are very difficult, who can't get

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<v Speaker 1>homeworka in on time, or for kids who work slower,

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<v Speaker 1>who kids need more time, kids who need more time

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<v Speaker 1>to process things and work them through. And what they

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<v Speaker 1>realized is that putting these behaviors into the grade that's

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to just show academic progress doesn't really make sense

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<v Speaker 1>and is inequitable. So the move is to separate the

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<v Speaker 1>behaviors from that letter grade. And it's also to try

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<v Speaker 1>to make students own their learning a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>instead of always giving them assignments that they have to

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<v Speaker 1>learn how to give assignments to themselves, give deadlines to

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<v Speaker 1>themselves so they get things done. It also these experiments,

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<v Speaker 1>there's not just one, but there's a number of them,

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<v Speaker 1>but they also include having students have the opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>redo material, to read tests, to read papers so that

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<v Speaker 1>they actually learn what they're supposed to know. And in

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<v Speaker 1>some places that have been experimenting with it, they're finding

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<v Speaker 1>it's very very interesting and successful and other chief places

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<v Speaker 1>are very nervous about trying it. They think that they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to short change kids by not you know, instilling

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<v Speaker 1>in them behaviors that everybody thinks kids should have. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of contention about it in districts around

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<v Speaker 1>the country, right, yeah, I mean on that front, right,

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<v Speaker 1>meeting deadlines, having things done properly, proper formatting, that stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to carry over into college where a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of those rules are stricter even and in the workplace,

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<v Speaker 1>right there are deadlines that need to be met. So

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<v Speaker 1>I guess some of some of the opposition to some

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<v Speaker 1>of this, uh is that you're not instilling those in

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<v Speaker 1>the kids with their school work. And so what does

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<v Speaker 1>this look like in practice? You had an example from

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<v Speaker 1>a pe teacher for a teacher those teaching a AP class,

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<v Speaker 1>and instead of doing this one point scale, which you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all the way up to sixty points, right is a

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<v Speaker 1>failing grade. Still, they do something more on a fifty

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<v Speaker 1>point scale where each you get ten points for each

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<v Speaker 1>of the letters A through F. You know, so you

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<v Speaker 1>kind of there's less of a chance to be an

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<v Speaker 1>outright fail grade. Well, absolutely, when you think about it,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, I went to school a lifetime ago

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<v Speaker 1>and never thought about this, But it is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>crazy for one letter, the F to have sixty points.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you are a student who you know has

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<v Speaker 1>trouble with motivation and your first big test is a

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<v Speaker 1>you get a fifty on it, that's really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>come back from. So a kid who doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of motivation might decide they're not even going to try.

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<v Speaker 1>But a kid who knows that they can go back

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<v Speaker 1>and try again to learn the material and do better

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<v Speaker 1>is advantaged by a system that doesn't place so much,

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't have that one point system, and a system

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<v Speaker 1>allows you to redo things to show that you know

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<v Speaker 1>what you know. The bottom line for teachers is is

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<v Speaker 1>that they want kids to learn, and so what is

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<v Speaker 1>the best system to show that they have that they

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<v Speaker 1>have mastered the material? So um, you know they don't.

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<v Speaker 1>They do an interesting thing though, too, with some of this. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>Let's say you need to retake an exam or redo

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<v Speaker 1>an assignment. A lot of this has to do with

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<v Speaker 1>the teacher kind of meeting with the student one on one.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me what you did wrong, tell me that you

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<v Speaker 1>learned from this. Now you get another crack at the assignment.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's an important part of it. At least there's

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<v Speaker 1>an understanding and you can kind of glean a little

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<v Speaker 1>more if the student did, you know, master the subject,

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<v Speaker 1>things like that. But that also points to teachers being

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<v Speaker 1>overworked as well and having needing more time to do

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of this one on one stuff. Absolutely, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's why a lot of teachers are upset about it,

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<v Speaker 1>nervous about it and pushing back against it. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of teachers have a lot of students. Class sizes can

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<v Speaker 1>be very large, and they see that they don't have

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<v Speaker 1>the time to do so much one on one that

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<v Speaker 1>they would like to do, and they don't have time

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<v Speaker 1>to remake tests and come up with new assignments. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I asked some teachers who have been doing this about that,

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<v Speaker 1>and they say that can be an issue, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>also true that they have they're using the time they

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<v Speaker 1>spent doing other things doing this now, so they've learned

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<v Speaker 1>to sort of change their their work flaw. It Also,

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<v Speaker 1>those does speak to teachers who say that small class

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<v Speaker 1>sizes are important. Right there, this's that more individualized at

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<v Speaker 1>tension that they get. I mean, all of this is

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<v Speaker 1>a very interesting concept. And you know, whatever we can

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<v Speaker 1>do to make sure that children are learning the subjects,

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<v Speaker 1>the mastery of the subjects is very important. There's obviously

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of conversations going on about parents input and

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<v Speaker 1>teacher input and what the kids are learning. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's an ongoing thing and we'll see if any of

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<v Speaker 1>these do gain traction. Valerie Strauss, Education Report at the

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for having me. I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been

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<v Speaker 1>reopening America. Don't forget the difference today's big news stories.

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<v Speaker 1>You can check me out in the Daily Dive podcast

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<v Speaker 1>every Monday through Friday. So follow us on I Heart

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<v Speaker 1>Radio or wherever you get your podcast