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Speaker 1: Now on Bloomberg with about the government. What are the

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Speaker 1: political reality The president has been increasingly frustrated. I want

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Speaker 1: to try to cut through the noise politically. This is devastating.

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Speaker 1: Sound on with ken the insiders, the influencers, the insiders.

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Speaker 1: There is no secret that I care a lot about

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Speaker 1: the consumers. There are real questions about did tech we

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Speaker 1: still have more leverage to me as with the Harraffs.

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Speaker 1: I think we could do with a little less drama

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Speaker 1: from the white He's sound on with Kevin's he related

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg nine one and one oh five point seven

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Speaker 1: a m h D two Bosom. All the trade talks

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Speaker 1: are underway China delegation from China meeting earlier today with

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Speaker 1: top Trump administration officials. As the China trade talks continue

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Speaker 1: to escalate, we're following that as well as the Fed.

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Speaker 1: What did Fed share Powell have to say about interest rates?

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get into what the central bank policymakers have

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Speaker 1: to say in the midst of all of this volatility

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Speaker 1: impacting market because of trade policy. And oh yeah, that

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Speaker 1: looming partial government shutdown. Less than one week until President

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Speaker 1: Trump delivers his State of the Union address. Rescheduled UH

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Speaker 1: and less than about two and a half weeks until

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Speaker 1: the deadline for another potential government shutdown. All Star Panel Today,

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Speaker 1: we've got Sarah mc gregor are Bloomberg News Economics editor,

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Speaker 1: as well as Raj Shaw. He is the former deputy

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Speaker 1: assistant to President Trump and the White House Deputy Press Secretary.

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Speaker 1: He just left the administration. We're gonna talk all things

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Speaker 1: Trump World with him and Democratic strategist Richard Fowler. He

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Speaker 1: also is with us for the hour protesters protesters protesting

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Speaker 1: against Chinese President she Jing Ping police were brought in.

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Speaker 1: There was a handful of a kerfuffle. I guess is

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Speaker 1: the word? Is that even the right word? As the

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Speaker 1: trade talks between the world's two largest economies, the United

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Speaker 1: States and China UH continued UH, this time the latest

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Speaker 1: round happening here in Washington, d C. The backdrop to

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Speaker 1: all of this the ongoing developments that we've covered and

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Speaker 1: talked about with Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications giant that the administration,

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Speaker 1: well they say there's stealing secrets from the US and

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Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Stephen Manuition is hopeful, optimistic even that the

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Speaker 1: administration will get some type of breakthrough to better protect

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Speaker 1: US intellectual property from company from US companies and businesses

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Speaker 1: against China. With me here in studio who covers all

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Speaker 1: of this on a busy day, and we're grateful that

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Speaker 1: she's here. Sarah McGregor, Bloomberg News Economic Policy Team Leader.

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Speaker 1: I thought the scene outside was on this freezing cold

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Speaker 1: day was maybe a good illustration of where things are.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe the kool, as you said, outside the hotel,

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Speaker 1: is the trade delegation headed to the White House and

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Speaker 1: the talks today could have been seen perhaps as an

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Speaker 1: ominous sign. But I do think you know, we haven't heard,

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Speaker 1: at least publicly if any of the sides walking out.

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Speaker 1: As far as we know, the U. S And China

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Speaker 1: are still talking right now. They're going to head into

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Speaker 1: a dinner tonight. Some of these high level officials, people

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Speaker 1: like USTR, Robert Lightheiser, Leo Chu, the Chinese trades are

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna be watching. Really all eyes are on

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Speaker 1: tomorrow Trump is supposed to meet with the Chinese trade negotiator,

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Speaker 1: So we're really gonna be trying to look out at

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Speaker 1: at Twitter or if there's any sort of public statement

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Speaker 1: by Trump to see what how he thinks the toxic.

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of ways to look at this, right.

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Speaker 1: The first is, is everybody gonna be on the same

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Speaker 1: page From the US delegation. We all know that Bob Lightheiser,

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Speaker 1: the Trade Representative, and Treasury Secretary Minution and Peter Navarro,

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Speaker 1: they haven't always spoken from the same political playbook. Democrats

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Speaker 1: say that's a bad thing folks who support this administration,

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Speaker 1: and Republicans say, well, hey, wait a minute, it's the

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Speaker 1: good cop bad cop are of the deal type of strategy.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna ask Raj Shaw later in the program, former

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Speaker 1: White House Deputy Press secretary, about his take on the

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Speaker 1: strategy behind all this. But I would argue that if

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Speaker 1: your President Trump and you're looking at market volatility, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to have this blow up in your face. No, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because we just had a tweet from Trump

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Speaker 1: talking about some of the gains in the markets today. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that. I mean, I'll look forward

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Speaker 1: to to what Roger will say, But I do think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the baseline for for talks this week at least,

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Speaker 1: is really not any expectation that a deal is going

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Speaker 1: to be signed, sealed and delivered, but maybe just some progress.

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Speaker 1: And I think that from that, you know, we might

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Speaker 1: see whether the US is sort of tempering its expectations

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Speaker 1: if it starts to talk more about the buy side

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Speaker 1: trying to buying more goods rather than really committing them

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Speaker 1: to some deep structural changes to its economy, which is

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Speaker 1: ultimately what the US wants. Sarah McGregor, Bloomberg News Economic

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Speaker 1: Policy team leader. I think that that really illustrates and

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Speaker 1: captures where we're at, because if it isn't seen by

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Speaker 1: the market as a sign of progress, I think then

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Speaker 1: it would essentially be a step backward. And we're just

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Speaker 1: around the corner from March one, which is when the

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Speaker 1: President has said he's going to raise tariffs on the

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Speaker 1: two hundred billion dollars worth of goods that have already

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Speaker 1: been tariffs. So we're kind of at this key crucial moment.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to mix up the

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Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle, but we're going to get to

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Speaker 1: this later in the hour. But when you have the

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Speaker 1: backdrop of the domestic negotiations going on with the partial

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Speaker 1: government shutdown and not to mention the debt ceiling, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of puzzle pieces here that I think a

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Speaker 1: win for not even a win, but as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: trending in the right direction with China would help President Trump. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, And I think that you know, these

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Speaker 1: talx this week might prove to be a bit anticlimatic,

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Speaker 1: and that you know, a statement as sort of something

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Speaker 1: that that just says they agreed to more talks, that

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Speaker 1: there has been progress. That would definitely appease the markets.

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Speaker 1: Of course, if there's a breakdown or any indication that

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Speaker 1: the sides are not willing to meet again or to

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Speaker 1: move forward, that would, um obviously would be pretty quick

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Speaker 1: deterioration of what's happening. So I do think just them

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Speaker 1: still talking in optimistic, sort of happy clappy language about

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Speaker 1: each other would be enough. Kind to be honest, I

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Speaker 1: usually like to keep my opinion out of things, but

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Speaker 1: like candidly, at least they're talking. I wish that the

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Speaker 1: US and China trade talks, that there were more better

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Speaker 1: similarities on the international front than what's going on with

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Speaker 1: the shutdown. But I want to play for you. Sarah McGregor,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Economic Policy team leader, a SoundBite from the

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Speaker 1: other day with Larry Cudlow, The President Chief Economic Advisor

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Speaker 1: about what he says about the ongoing US trying to

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Speaker 1: tradelocks here trade talks. Say that ten times fast folks

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Speaker 1: trade talks. Here's Larry Cudlow the other day to take

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Speaker 1: a lism. The scope of these talks will be the

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Speaker 1: broadest and deepest in US China history. We've never had

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Speaker 1: anything this comprehensive. And I regard that as a as

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Speaker 1: a big plus. So even the White House is saying

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Speaker 1: they're talking, and that's a good thing. And they're talking,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know what exactly they're going to agree to,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a month from now, two months from now,

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Speaker 1: or two years from now. Yeah, And we actually ran

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Speaker 1: a pretty interesting story. I thought this great story, a

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Speaker 1: great story, uh this week about how you know, China

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Speaker 1: might take a page out of Nancy Pelosi's playbook and

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Speaker 1: sort of the shutdown, and you know, the Democrats refused

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Speaker 1: to give into Trump and eventually he relented when sort

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Speaker 1: of the economic impact, the impact on the workers really

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Speaker 1: start to dig in. You know, we saw La Guardia

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Speaker 1: uh stop taking flights. You know, this is when it

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Speaker 1: really started to and to the rubber hit the road

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Speaker 1: in terms of um the shutdown having an impact, and

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Speaker 1: you know, China might be looking at that as they

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Speaker 1: come this week and thinking maybe we can call him nothing.

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Speaker 1: That the story also points out is that the U.

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Speaker 1: S could essentially say, well, deuces, because if you're going

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Speaker 1: to do that, China, look at your long term growth.

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Speaker 1: A lot of economist questioning whether or not China can

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Speaker 1: hold on to their long term growth model. And then

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Speaker 1: of course President she will say, well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be president for life. So it's this whole,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's fascinating because there's so many different moving

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Speaker 1: parts all of that. Uh. Coming up, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about the FED rate and then more on the shutdown

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Speaker 1: and Nancy Speaker Pelosi with Sarah Gregor, Bloomberg News economic

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Speaker 1: policy team leader and the former White House Deputy Press

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Speaker 1: Secretary with US in Studio Russia. Listening to our first segment,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get him away in with Richard Fowler, Democratic strategist.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Sireli. You're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Sound On with Kevin Surreally on Bloomberg one and one

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Speaker 1: oh five point seven of m h D two. Bottom

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Speaker 1: are growth has slowed in some major foreign economies, particularly

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Speaker 1: China and Europe. There is elevated uncertainty around several unresolved

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Speaker 1: government policy issues, including Brexit, ongoing trade negotiations, and the

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Speaker 1: effects from the partial government shutdown in the United States.

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Speaker 1: That was FED shared from Rome Powell earlier today speaking

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Speaker 1: at the Center at the Federal Reserve. UH Sarah McGregor

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Speaker 1: covers all things FED and economic trade policy. She's Bloomberger

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Speaker 1: News Economic Policy team leader. So we just heard from FED. Sheharepal,

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Speaker 1: what did you make of his remarks today, particularly as

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Speaker 1: he cites all of these geopolitical events events contributing to

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Speaker 1: the volatility in the markets. So I think, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: the main takeaway from from the meeting today and from

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Speaker 1: what FED Chairman Powell told us, is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: he pretty much signaled that the Federal Reserve is sort

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Speaker 1: of done raising interest rates at least for a while.

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Speaker 1: It's been on this tightening, steady march of a tightening

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Speaker 1: cycle since the end of and it sort of looks

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Speaker 1: and both of these are quite as substantial pivot away

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Speaker 1: And I think why what a lot of Americans will

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Speaker 1: probably remember is um Donald Trump sort of urging the

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Speaker 1: Federal reserved to to do this, to try and take

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Speaker 1: another look at its tightening path. Of course, the Federal

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Speaker 1: Reserves independent, so it's not doing it because Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: told them too, but it certainly might make the White

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Speaker 1: House happy. Yeah, definitely what we'll ask for some reaction

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Speaker 1: coming up just a second. But the bottom line last,

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Speaker 1: I mean, earlier we were talking about the U. S.

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Speaker 1: China trade talks. We get this breather as you call it,

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Speaker 1: from fed Share Pal. What does that mean for folks?

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Speaker 1: Bottom line, I mean, as Pal today said, the economy

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Speaker 1: is in a good place. So this isn't stopping a

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Speaker 1: tightening cycle because he sees some major economic risk. He

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Speaker 1: did talk about trade since we were discussing that earlier,

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Speaker 1: that as you know, if these trade talks are prolonged,

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Speaker 1: it could create a lot more uncertainty and business investment

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Speaker 1: could suffer. But the bottom line, I think is Pal's

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Speaker 1: not putting Americans unnoticed that the economy is in a

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Speaker 1: in a terrible spot, and that's why they're taking these

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Speaker 1: these new sort of um analysis of their fed their

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Speaker 1: rate hiking hiking cycle. But you know, they are being

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Speaker 1: more cautious, and so I think that that is a

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Speaker 1: change from what we heard at the last meeting in December.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Sarah McGregor, Bloomberg News Economic policy team leader,

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Speaker 1: one of my good friends here in the Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: room and one of the hardest working colleagues I have

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Speaker 1: in the Washington You're thank you for being so generous

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Speaker 1: this evening with your time. Appreciate you helping us translate

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Speaker 1: these important economic issues. I want to bring in Raj Shah,

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Speaker 1: former White House Deputy Press Secretary and informal advisor to

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Speaker 1: President Trump's reelection campaign. He also just signed with Ballard

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Speaker 1: Media Group chair, your chair of that UH and and

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Speaker 1: Democratic Strategists m. Richard Fowler, who is a good friend

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Speaker 1: of the program. We appreciate both of you coming on. Roch.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with you. So we just heard

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Speaker 1: from Sarah about all of these different economic pieces. Now

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Speaker 1: we didn't touch on the shutdown. Well we'll get to

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Speaker 1: that a little later on. But if you're President Trump

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Speaker 1: today and the FED chairs taking a breather, hitting pause

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Speaker 1: on raising interest rates, and you're in the middle of

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Speaker 1: intense China negotiations. What are you thinking economically right Well,

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Speaker 1: Kevin verst of Fall, thanks for having me. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I do think there are a lot of important things

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Speaker 1: going on with the economy right now. The Fed's announcement, um,

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Speaker 1: I think it probably will be welcomed by the White House.

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Speaker 1: I mean, remember I think about a month ago, uh,

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Speaker 1: the raising of raids and some of the announcements coming

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Speaker 1: out of the FED kind of set the stock market

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a tumble. Um that we saw Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all your listeners out there probably lost a little bit

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Speaker 1: there on their body. And um, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think, frankly, today's announcement and the statement is sort

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Speaker 1: of a reflection that maybe they overstepped right and that

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Speaker 1: some of the President's reaction was in the right place. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I think the FED and I think

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Speaker 1: there uh, their announcement today and Sherman Pale statement is

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Speaker 1: probably the most important thing that's going on because it's

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Speaker 1: about the overall economic health. Uh. It does also say

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Speaker 1: that um, you know, the economy is growing, and the

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Speaker 1: economy is gonna continue to grow, and it's still uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, on a forward glide path. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if you couple that with China, there's definitely a lot

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Speaker 1: at stake right now. I also don't think though that um,

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Speaker 1: you know, our our kind of path forward of pretty

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Speaker 1: solid but not maybe uh you know, headline grabbing growth

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Speaker 1: in the near future is probably kind of where we

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Speaker 1: where we probably see things going in the near future. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's Rush Shaw. He's with us for the hour. Former

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Speaker 1: White House Deputy Press Secretary to President Trump and an

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Speaker 1: informal advisor reelect Richard Fowler, Democratic strategist, Thanks for being here, Richard. So, okay,

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Speaker 1: so we just heard from Raj about sort of the

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Speaker 1: lay of the land economically speaking. I'm sure you have

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Speaker 1: a different sort of vantage point, but I'm struck by

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Speaker 1: what economists are saying about the president's trade policies, because

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Speaker 1: the crux of populism in the US, not just in

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party but also in the Democratic Party is

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Speaker 1: this frush stration about foreign countries, whether it's Mexico, China

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Speaker 1: having a better play or a better understanding of the

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Speaker 1: US job market and taking precedent over US jobs. And

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Speaker 1: yet a lot of these business leaders are citing these

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Speaker 1: trade policies as reasons for not being able to invest

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Speaker 1: your domestically. Well, I think it's that's an interesting question,

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Speaker 1: and I think part of the problem that exists is

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Speaker 1: I think you have to look at the market and

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Speaker 1: its entirety. Right, So, I think you have what's happening

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Speaker 1: with China, and I think you have the President's reckless

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Speaker 1: tarraf policy. And the reason why I call the tariff

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Speaker 1: policy reckless is there's no question that China stealing intellectual property.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is that we went in alone. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the strategy should have been working with Europe

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Speaker 1: and working with our other allies to say, hey, listen, China,

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Speaker 1: the world has a problem you stealing intellectual property. But

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Speaker 1: I think beyond that, when when you you have to

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Speaker 1: also take a look at what's happening in Europe, in

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Speaker 1: Europe and Brexit, and depending on what happened in Brexit,

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Speaker 1: that also impacts the United States markets as well. And

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Speaker 1: so I think those two things to get there could

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Speaker 1: create an interesting outlook for the US market going into

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Speaker 1: the next couple of quarters. Can I just say that

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Speaker 1: on the president's trade policy. This is a seminal issue

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Speaker 1: for him. It's one that he ran on. If you

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Speaker 1: see the um you know, old beta tapes of Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump on late night shows from the night going back

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Speaker 1: to before I was born. He was talking about how Japan, China, Vietnam,

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Speaker 1: other countries are taking us to lunch on trade deals.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he's actually taking action. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is actually a platform that both parties have run on

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Speaker 1: for presidential election after presidential election and done nothing about.

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Speaker 1: He's actually taken action. And you know, we see China

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Speaker 1: having some significant economic repercussions because of these tariffs. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna see how this policy plays out. But this president

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Speaker 1: is actually betting on um you know, while the US

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Speaker 1: is seeing a period of growth to kind of punish

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Speaker 1: bad economic activity that has been going on for a

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Speaker 1: generation in China. Rod, I hear that. I think here

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Speaker 1: in lies the problem is that, yes, the overall market

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Speaker 1: looks good, but when you started, when you start to

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Speaker 1: dig down here that you see you see dairy farmers hurting,

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Speaker 1: You see soybean farmers hurting, You see pecan farmers hurting

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Speaker 1: because their markets are shutting down. In China, which is there,

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Speaker 1: which is where those where these products go. So I

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Speaker 1: think when you do a trade policy, and this is

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Speaker 1: why I think you need to sort of approach where

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Speaker 1: you work with your allies and when if all of

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Speaker 1: us went in, if Europe and the United States and

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Speaker 1: all of these countries went in together, then it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be so much pain on us farmers. We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: much more on trade policy. Hate to jump in there,

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Speaker 1: but we're gonna have much more on trade policy coming

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Speaker 1: up later. And of course, uh, the another seminal issue

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Speaker 1: radged the wall, whereas Mark Lotter told us yesterday enhanced fencing.

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Speaker 1: So well, we'll tet into all of that coming up.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin's really you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: sound On with Kevin's you really on Bloomberg one and

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Speaker 1: one oh five point seven f M h D two

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Smart Well, their security is not overly reliant on

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Speaker 1: physical barriers, which the Trump administration had failed to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: our cost effective compared to better technology and more personnel.

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Speaker 1: That was Congresswoman Nita Lowe, a Democrat from New York,

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Speaker 1: talking earlier today about the wall or enhanced fencing or

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Speaker 1: steal slats. I'm I'm beginning to lose account of all

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Speaker 1: of the different names that we're calling this. Call it

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Speaker 1: whatever you want. I call it a stalemate, because in

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Speaker 1: less than two and a half weeks, if there isn't

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Speaker 1: a new funding bill pass, we're going to be in

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Speaker 1: this mess of a partial government shutdown all over again.

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Speaker 1: Now less than a week from tonight, on Tuesday, February,

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Speaker 1: in prime time, President Trump is set to deliver his

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Speaker 1: State of the Union address. You can bet that the

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Speaker 1: wall or enhanced fencing and whatnot that that's going to

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Speaker 1: be a key part of this. And as Congresswoman Lowie

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Speaker 1: just pointed out, the issue of the wall is something

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Speaker 1: that Democrats are still against. My guests with me for

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Speaker 1: the hour include RAJ Shaw, former White House Deputy Press

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Speaker 1: secretary to President Trump, and Richard Fowler, a Democratic strategist.

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Speaker 1: Rog we just heard from Congressman Lowry who just said,

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Speaker 1: no wall, no deal. I'm translating. Sure, Um, that's that's

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Speaker 1: her point of view. But Democrats now have the House

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Speaker 1: and they can't just say no. I think they have

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Speaker 1: to govern. Um. I think what you saw over the

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Speaker 1: last few weeks you saw the president, I think engage

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Speaker 1: in you know what, I'll call it temporary retreat to

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Speaker 1: try to press the case um temporary retreating. Sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: I think no, I think that. I think that what

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Speaker 1: the Democrats message was throughout the shutdown was reopened the

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Speaker 1: government and then we can have a conversation on walls,

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Speaker 1: on border security, on all these issues. The government has

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Speaker 1: now been reopened, it's their time to come forward with

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Speaker 1: a serious proposal. And they, you know, Democrats have over

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Speaker 1: the course of the last you know, fifteen years, on

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Speaker 1: multiple votes, backed physical barriers, steel slacks, you know, fit concrete, beriers,

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Speaker 1: wherever you want to call them. They've supported them because

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Speaker 1: they actually do work. Uh in San Diego and in

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Speaker 1: various sectors along Arizona. Yeah, well where where these things

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Speaker 1: have been built, the amount of illegal people and drug

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Speaker 1: trafficking along those parts of the border have have dropped

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Speaker 1: dramatically over in the sector in San Diego that was built. Listen.

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Speaker 1: So I think this. I think there's there's there's some

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Speaker 1: places where we can do some fencing, and I think

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Speaker 1: Democrats are okay with that. I think the ideal of

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Speaker 1: fencing the entire um Mexico United States borders the non

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Speaker 1: that's a non star and that's not what the President

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Speaker 1: actually said a week ago, but he said he said

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Speaker 1: let's do Yeah. With that being said, I think we're

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Speaker 1: Democrats are looking to is that there's other ways we

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Speaker 1: can do it. You can use drones, you can put

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Speaker 1: more border patrol on the ground. And also I think

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Speaker 1: where the press. I think that the umber one reason

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Speaker 1: why we have the number one reason for legal immigrants

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Speaker 1: in this country is visa overstates and the President has

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Speaker 1: not figured out a way to address visa overstates, which

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Speaker 1: I think is a problematic, problematic for this White House.

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Speaker 1: He talks about the wall, he talks about illegal immigration,

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Speaker 1: but he hasn't uttered the word visa overstays and how

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Speaker 1: he deals with it. But listen, I mean the way

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Speaker 1: that this is being framed, whether you're a Republican or

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Speaker 1: a Democrat, is the Conservatives are for the wall, progressives

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Speaker 1: or not. And I want to play. But we heard

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Speaker 1: from Nia condrassorone Louie, a Democrat from New York. I

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Speaker 1: want to play with Richard Shelby, said the Senator Richard Shelby,

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Speaker 1: a Republican from Louisiana, because he's he's taking the position

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Speaker 1: of the base here, Senator Shelby earlier today, smart technology

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Speaker 1: alone does not actually stop anyone from crossing into the

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Speaker 1: US illegally. And if that is happening, our borders are

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Speaker 1: not secure. So Roge, I hear from Senator Shelby, and

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Speaker 1: and essentially I I hear him echoing the conservative base,

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Speaker 1: which is a bit frustrated. I think you would you

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Speaker 1: would say, this is why all they're frustrated with President

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Speaker 1: Trump's I the words you use was a temporary whatever.

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Speaker 1: But sure they're but they're frustrated about this. And I

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Speaker 1: say this to Richard too. Thirty seven percent of Americans,

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Speaker 1: according to the latest NBC News poll, want the wall.

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Speaker 1: That's not nobody. Yeah, I think that. Look, if if

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Speaker 1: voters are serious about border security, uh wall, a wall

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Speaker 1: or a physical structure along the southern border has to

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Speaker 1: be a part of the solution. We have, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: over eleven million people in the United States here illegally.

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Speaker 1: We have illegal traffic. Oh, I mean, I see some

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Speaker 1: shaking heads, but but I mean I think that that

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Speaker 1: is a partial So don't get me in trouble, Rodger.

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Speaker 1: That's how rumors get started. So a couple of points

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Speaker 1: on this. I think point number one is that in

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Speaker 1: the midterm elections, the main argument, the closing argument for

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Speaker 1: the for the president of the Republican Party was border security.

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Speaker 1: That argument was repudiated by voters all across this country,

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Speaker 1: including in border states like Arizona where um Send or

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Speaker 1: Cinema was elected, right where the people said, yeah, the wall,

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Speaker 1: but we care, we care about pregis, we care more

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Speaker 1: about precedents, conditions. Right. So, I think the ideal that

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Speaker 1: Republicans are still talking about this wall, even though voters

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Speaker 1: have very clearly stated that they're more pressing issues than

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Speaker 1: the wall. Uh, seems to be why the president is

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Speaker 1: losing this debate. But I have let me up in

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Speaker 1: here because I have a question for you, Richard, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm gonna put a similar question to Roger. But

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Speaker 1: I want to stick with this point to Richard. Don't

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Speaker 1: you think that the House Democrats would rather be talking

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Speaker 1: about something else other than this wall? I mean, don't

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Speaker 1: they want to talk about Medicare for all? Don't they

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Speaker 1: want to talk about healthcare? Don't they want to talk

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Speaker 1: about anything other than a wall? And they and in

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Speaker 1: the first bill that we passed with the first bill

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Speaker 1: that that Nancy Pelosi, Speaker Pelosi put on the floor

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Speaker 1: was voting rights and in ensuring up our voting system.

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Speaker 1: And we do want to have that those type of conversations. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: we're bogged down by this president shutting down the government

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00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: for thirty four days and he got nothing in return,

430
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: and if and and the other point. I want to

431
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: make the things really important to make that he does not,

432
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: I think, and he's very very clearly McConnell has said it.

433
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: I think Senate Republican is a number of cent Republicans

434
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: were very clear they said, this president, you can notchut

435
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: this government down again for a wall, and then we

436
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: gotta go to break and then we gotta go break. Roger,

437
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: I want to put this question to you, respectfully. Doesn't

438
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: this White House doesn't President Trump want to talk about

439
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: something other than the wall, especially to suburban voters, especially

440
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: to corporate America, especially to independent voters. Well, let me

441
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: just say that. Um. There was actually a poll conducted

442
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: by the president's reelection campaign that was recently released. It

443
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: showed that in swing districts where he won in sixteen

444
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: and Democrats won, the actual message in coming through and

445
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: the shutdown was advantageous for the president. The other thing

446
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: I'll point out is that you said that voters repudiated

447
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: the wall and the wall message. Well, I think Republican Uh,

448
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 1: the Republican Senate caucus grew over that last election. And

449
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: right now you know Republicans hold the White House, they

450
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: hold the Senate. Uh. This is democracy, and I think

451
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: a united front behind wall funding should have a say.

452
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: Shouldn't just be the speaker? Let me press you on

453
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: this rush off former Deputy White House Deputy Press secretary

454
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: to President Trump. Isn't it time for President Trump to

455
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: put out other ideas than just the wall. Well, he

456
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: has a comprehensive order security set of plans. I mean

457
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: in in that Oval Office address, you heard about a

458
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: lot of issues. You heard about you heard about increased

459
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: uh what you called ice ice personnel, talking about changing

460
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: the laws along the border to end catching. There's a

461
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: holistic approach to this. There's asylum reform, There's a whole

462
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: lot of issues. But without a physical barrier and actually

463
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: securing that southern border, none of that stuff is gonna matter.

464
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: As Senator Shelby said, all right, we gotta go to

465
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: break uh, We're gonna continue this discussion, plus uh Raj

466
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: is gonna give us an update on the election campaign,

467
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: and we're also going to talk about life after the

468
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: briefing room with Russia. What is his life like now

469
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: that he's outside of six Pennsylvania Avenue With Rush of

470
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: former White House deput d Press secretary and Richard Fowler,

471
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: Democratic strategist. I'm Kevin Sirelli. You're listening to Bloomberg. This

472
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: is Sound On. We need different leadership, there's any question

473
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: about it. Truth I said I would take a hardcore

474
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: guest to the election. I will not be a candidate

475
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: for president America. Greg, keep America great. Sooner with Kevin's

476
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: really welcome back. It's never too early to start talking

477
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: to start talking presidential politics, and what better a place

478
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: to do it than here on Sound On. I'm Kevin Surrelie,

479
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: Bloomberger's chief Washington correspondent, and my guests this hour. Raj

480
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: Shaw a former White House Deputy Press Secretary and currently

481
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: an informal advisor to the Trump re election campaign, which

482
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: is a fancy jargon for he talks to the campaign

483
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: whenever he wants. And Richard Fowler, Democratic strategist, So rag,

484
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: how do things stand because a lot of polls would

485
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: suggest independent voters didn't like that government shutdown and they

486
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: blame President Trump. Well, I would say a few things.

487
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: First of all, I think polls two years out, I mean,

488
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, less than the paper that they're printed on,

489
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: or are worth less in the paper that they're printed on. UM.

490
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: So we'll see as as the campaign develops. I think

491
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: really the the real interesting dynamic is the Democratic field

492
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: beginning to take shape. UM. I think you're seeing kind of,

493
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, a rush to the left on various issues healthcare,

494
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: Medicare for all. Kamala Harris is kind of uh wobbly

495
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: position on that issue. Um. You have Howard Schultz kind

496
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: of mixing it up and making critical comments of Democratic

497
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: tax policy. So you know, I think unlike previous Democratic campaigns,

498
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: competitive races that you could look at either two thousand

499
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: and eight or or even sixteen, I mean, there's a

500
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: real ideological, almost civil war going on in the Democratic Party.

501
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: And who's going to kind of take leadership. I think

502
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: that's a wide open question and that it's going to

503
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: be the biggest variable this year in the campaign. Listen,

504
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't get me wrong, I think that the twenty

505
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: I think Roger's right. I think it's too other look

506
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: at polls. But I think with that being said, I

507
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: think here in lies a problem for the President of

508
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: his re election campaign. I think number one, I think

509
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: he has a problem with the Republican Party. I think

510
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: the Republican Party is currently in shambles. I think you

511
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: have people like Susan Collins saying I'm not sure I'm

512
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: ready to endorse, and I don't think she's alone that

513
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: problem with number one. I think number two. He ran

514
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: and he made all these promises to the American people.

515
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: He has only probably fulfilled one maybe, which is his

516
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: tax plan when it comes. He said he's going to

517
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 1: build a wall in Mexico. Is gonna pay for it.

518
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a wall. We don't have a check

519
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: from Mexico. But but I don't think Susan Colin, like,

520
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: let me politely, I'm not done. Remember he also had

521
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: a two trillion dollar infrastructure bill and we're still waiting

522
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: for that too. Yeah, but but there's no alternative right

523
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: now for Senator Susan Collins. I would find it hard

524
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: to believe that Susan Senator Collins would vote for Senator

525
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris. Yeah, I think this president is still gonna

526
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: have a hard time convincing into pendence and working class

527
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: Americans and suburban suburban American If you look at the

528
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: kinds of voters that the president won to revolutionize, I

529
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: think the the electoral map, if you look at working class, um,

530
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: lord of middle income, frankly white voters who had voted

531
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: Democratic for decades. Um, I don't really know. In places

532
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: like Pennsylvania, Iowa, Wisconsin, those states, I don't know. If

533
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: you're one of those folks who culturally the Democratic Party

534
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: has left you, and now the president is speaking to

535
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: them on issues like trade, on issues like immigration, he

536
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: has a populist message. I don't know what people like

537
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren are saying today that's going to reach those voters.

538
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: Let me come in, let me come in here, let

539
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: me come in here. But can he win re election

540
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: with just that same coalition, because you know, Richard, I mean,

541
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to knock the Democratic nominee. She did

542
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: win the pot Aller vote, but she lost. It was

543
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: seventy thousand votes in the states that you just alluded to, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan,

544
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania, and then of course Florida. But I mean,

545
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: let's keep Florida sepparate because it is a distant relative

546
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: in those states. So but can he simply will will

547
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: the wall argument RAJ work again in twenty and quite honestly,

548
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: if you look at the mid terms, I'm not so

549
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: sure I see that well. I mean, look, you have

550
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: a mid term election is not a presidential election. It's

551
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: a totally different I mean, having been through them, they're

552
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: totally different. They're totally different races. I think the president

553
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: is going to have a significantly like stronger case to make.

554
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: He's not just campaigning and ideas. I think he's gonna

555
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: campaign on a lot of actual accomplishments. I want to

556
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: push back on that for a second. Let's take the

557
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin, right, So, I don't know what is

558
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: the president gonna say to those four thousand Harley Davidson

559
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: workers that got laid off. What he's gonna say to

560
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: the fourteen thousand GM workers that got laid off. They

561
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: got laid off on his watch while he was president,

562
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: when he promised them that they were going to keep

563
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: their jobs. He promised them He's gonna look out for them.

564
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: These were the voters that he mobilized and now they've

565
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: lost their job. But you're picking some high profile examples

566
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: and I take those. But industrial manufacturing in the Midwest

567
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: has grown, It's grown on this president's watch. The unemployment

568
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: rates in those states is lower than when he took off,

569
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: a significantly lower, economic sentiment is higher, small business ownership

570
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: is growing, so the economy as a whole. And look,

571
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: I can't say that eighteen months around the economy is

572
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: gonna be as healthy as it is today. But right

573
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: now he has a very good story teachers in West

574
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: Virginia that went on strike for raises. I mean, what

575
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: does he say to these people under his watch who

576
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: were struggling? Well, I would first of all argue that

577
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: President Obama one re election under a very challenging economic circumstances.

578
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: I think like a moderating presidential debate. Cher Fowler, Democratic

579
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: strategist RAJ. Shaw, former White House Press secretary and informal advisor. Alright,

580
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: less than a week out until the State of the Union, rojs,

581
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: take us inside a White House Press secretary Sarah Standards office,

582
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: Bill Shines office UH, and walk us through what would

583
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: you advise the President Trump say to the American people

584
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: Tuesday night. Well, I think, um, there's been a lot

585
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: of um, you know, I think small talk. I guess

586
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: in Washington over the last month. Um, the debate has

587
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: gotten smaller, the actors look smaller. I think this is

588
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: a chance for the President to kind of uh, you know,

589
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: get big, offer a pro American message, a pro US

590
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: economy message. UM. I think he's gonna be able to

591
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: turn the page on some of uh, the issues that

592
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: have kind of challenged over the last month, but also

593
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: give a robust, Um how much time do you spend

594
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 1: on the wall? I think he'll spend a significant portion

595
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: of the speech on immigration reform. He's gonna layout idea

596
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: what about the wall? Did you say the wall? He

597
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: will certainly say we need to build way. I'm I'm

598
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: confident he will say that. But I also think that

599
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: he's gonna lay out a a set of positions on

600
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: immigration that have bipartisans What about the Muller investigation? Do

601
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: you mention that? I mean because Nixon, remember he said

602
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: it's time to turn the pain or whatever his direct

603
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: quote was. If you do, you would you advise President

604
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: Trump to address the Muller investigation in the State of

605
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: the Union. You know, you know, I'm I'm not gonna

606
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna kinda from the peanut gallery nowadays, where

607
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: I said spectfully, my friend, you're not a peanut gallery.

608
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: Don't sell yourself too short, I think, but I don't

609
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: think that that is the best venue for addressing for

610
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: addressing that issue, um, only because I think presidents can

611
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: get a bounce out of a State of the Union.

612
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: They can really captivate the country. You have a big audience.

613
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: I think you should try to, you know, take that

614
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: first been rush off, former White House Deputy Press Secretary.

615
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: What's life like now that you're no longer in I

616
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: don't even know what. First of all, what would you

617
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: call whatever you were in the I mean the White House,

618
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: but in the press shop of the White House, say,

619
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: very intense world. For lack of a term, as I

620
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: sighed dramatically, what is it like? Well, uh, you know,

621
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: I get to wake up and like their sunlight out,

622
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, and I get to sleep in a little.

623
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: What's that like? Because I don't I still don't sleep in,

624
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: But what is it like? Seriously? No, I think, Look,

625
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: it's been really nice to to slow the pace down

626
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: of life a little bit. And uh, you know, I

627
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: I think I will be missing it. You know, there's

628
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: like there's experiences I had of the last two years

629
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: that I'll never What was your favorite? Um, I mean

630
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: going on Air Force one. The first time I got

631
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: to take a trip on Air Force one is impossible

632
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: to match. All Right, Ross Russia, former White House Deputy

633
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: Press secretary and real Left campaign advisor. Ballard Media Group

634
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: is where he's at now and Democratic try Just Richard

635
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: Pollard my guest with me, Thanks so much. Tomorrow, much

636
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: more of the US China trade talks. I'm Kevin Cirelli.

637
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg