1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: The face of fear, Arena's gut wrenching look of terror 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: when she is fatally stabbed by a convict, of course, 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: out on bond. 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 3: At just twenty three years old, refugee Arena Zaritska leaves 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 3: everything behind to start a new life in the United 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 3: States with her family. She dives right in, making friends, 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 3: taking care of her neighbors, and exploring new places. Her 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: future seems bright, but the American dream isn't as promising 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: as she hoped. 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: Just shaking us to the core that this beautiful young 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: girl leaves Ukraine to come here, to chase the American 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: to leave the violence, the poverty. 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: The war torn drama. 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: In Ukraine as she makes it her dream comes true. 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: She comes to the US only to be stabbed dead 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: on public transportation by a guy with arrest now bordering 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: on twenty ars fourteen, that we know. Look at her, 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: she's minding her own business. Oh dear, this is the guy. 22 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: And these are just a few of the photos. Let 23 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: me say the photos. 24 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: I have of him. 25 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: There are so many more. Why did Erna have to die? 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: This is causing reverberations all the way to DC. 27 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 4: Listen. 28 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 5: On August twenty second, Arena Zarutsko was stabbed to death 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 5: on the rail system in Charlotte, North Carolina by a 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 5: savage career criminal. This is a public transportation system that 31 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 5: many in the area use every single day to go to. 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: School and work. 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 5: Arena was on the train that night, traveling home from 34 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 5: her job at a pizzeria, still in uniform from her shift. 35 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 5: This beautiful, innocent, twenty three year old young woman was 36 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 5: a Ukrainian refugee who had recently fled her country for 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 5: a chance at a safer life and a promising new 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 5: beginning here in the United States of America. 39 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: Irena is traveling on the East West Boulevard light rail 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 3: station Charlotte, North Carolina, headed home after working at a 41 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 3: local pizza restaurant. Irena is by herself as she takes 42 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: a seat and is on her phone listening with earbuds. 43 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 3: Sitting directly behind Irena is a thirty four year old 44 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: de Carlos Brown. The ride is uneventful until Brown stands 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 3: up and without warning, stabs Irena in the neck. Brown 46 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: then walks away as Irena grabs her neck trying to 47 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: stop the flow of blood. 48 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: Just such a blow to the us. 49 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: That original sound from Caroline eleven at the White House 50 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: Press Secretary, from our friends at Fox that this young 51 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: girl leaves behind a war torn zone to seek the 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: American dream and then get stabbed dead on the train 53 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: by a guy who's now saying it. 54 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: Was because she was Russian. 55 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: What wait a minute, how did he know about her accent? 56 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: Had he been stalking her? Did he know enough to 57 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: hear her speak claiming she was Russian? 58 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: So he stabbed her dead? 59 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of 60 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: what we know right now? 61 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: But listen, Passengers aboard the train look on as Arena 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: bleeds out in front of them. As the suspect walks away, 63 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: nobody confronts him. Blood is dripping on the floor from 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: the knife and from Arena, but nobody offers her any help. Instead, 65 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: some of the passengers on the train use their phones 66 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: to video what is taking place. One of the passengers 67 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: called nine one one. 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 4: Oh my stars. The girl is lying on the floor 69 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: bleeding out. 70 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: Look at these people videoing her. What a butch of 71 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: blood sucking. 72 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: Gules look at that. Who are these people? 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: No one helping her as she bleeds out on the floor. 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: Instead they video her. Okay, that's a whole. 75 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: Other can of worms. These people are. 76 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: Gules, gules straight out of hell. To Lauren Colin, joining 77 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: US investigative reporter co host Pop Crime TV, Lauren, I 78 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: want to circle back to what happened. 79 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. 80 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 4: What do we know? 81 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 6: Yes, Arena was leading her job at the pizza place 82 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 6: where she worked and listen, Nancy, she did everything right. 83 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 6: She came to the United States in twenty twenty two, 84 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 6: she got her work with and she was working multiple jobs, 85 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 6: one at the pizza place, one at an assisted living facility, 86 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 6: and she was also helping animals, neighborhood animals who needed care. 87 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 6: So Arena boarded this light rail that she took very 88 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 6: frequently to go to and from work. So she boarded 89 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 6: the train around nine forty six pm on August twenty second, 90 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 6: twenty twenty five, and unfortunately she sat directly in front 91 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 6: of the Carlos Brown Junior and we've seen the footy. 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 6: About four minutes later after she boarded, that's when he 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 6: got up and he subsequently stabbed her three times. And 94 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 6: as you mentioned earlier, and this is what the most 95 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 6: troubling thing is, I think about the whole thing. I mean, 96 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 6: obviously the stabbing is just terrible, but it took two 97 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 6: full minutes for bystanders to attempt to render aid, two 98 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 6: full minutes. 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 7: Now I don't know if she would. 100 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: And most of them just stood around videoing her. Only 101 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: I believe one guy tried to really help her and 102 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: staunch the flow of blood. Everybody else just kept videoing her. 103 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: Look at these people? What is wrong with them? And 104 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: I want to go to jos Scott Morgan joining me 105 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: right now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 106 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet, host of Body Bags with Joe Scott 107 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: Mortigan is a hit podcast series, but he most importantly 108 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: is a death investigator who has literally investigated thousands of 109 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: death scenes, be they accidental, undetermined suicide, homicide. 110 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. 111 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: Explain to me how she bled out so quickly on 112 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: the floor of that train. 113 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 8: Well, she's in our neck. We have this massive structure 114 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 8: of vessels, both veins and artery that are running through here. Remember, 115 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 8: we have to have supply for our brain, it's the 116 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 8: most vascular organ in the body. So it's a tremendous 117 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 8: amount of blood going upward eclipse these vessels. It's probably 118 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 8: the internal jugular, probably the carotid, and there's even facial 119 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 8: arteries that run up here to supply our face with blood. 120 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 8: If you're going to clip somebody with an edged weapon 121 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 8: wanting to bring about their death, this is the number 122 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 8: one spot to go through or to go to, you know, 123 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 8: And there's throughout history there have been attacks where people 124 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 8: have had their throats cut. This is very similar to that, Nancy. 125 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 8: I think that this is evidence certainly of intent to 126 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 8: do grievous bodily harm. As matter of fact, bringing about 127 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 8: the young woman's death just. 128 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: Got a She lay there on the floor, the floor 129 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: of a public rapid transit train. Ye, how long did 130 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: it take her to die? She know what was happening. 131 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 4: I mean, clearly. 132 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: She's cognizant because she shrinks in and looks around. She 133 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: did not die immediately, she suffered. 134 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 8: No, she didn't die immediately. However, the death would have 135 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 8: followed first first unconsciousness because the brain is not being 136 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 8: obstgenated at that point in time. The blood that she 137 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 8: had remaining is the only thing keeping her alive. There's 138 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 8: no way to stem this, Nancy. If you look at 139 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 8: the blood deposition just on the floor, you can even 140 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 8: see it in that still shot on her pants. This 141 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 8: blood has gone everywhere. We know that the volume of 142 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 8: blood here, this is consistent. Now that's passive dropping, which 143 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 8: from a forensic standpoint is hugely demonstrative. Nancy, can you 144 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 8: imagine having this evidence in courtroom because you can actually 145 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 8: show just got look. 146 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 4: At the picture. 147 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: Everybody's just sitting there like nothing happened. 148 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 8: Look, yeah, yeah, it's just it's inundated. The floor is 149 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 8: and you go back to where she is over there, 150 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 8: it would have been an absolute horror show. Back there, 151 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 8: she's bleeding out, probably when she hit the floor. You 152 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 8: can apply direct pressure to a wound like that. But Nancy, 153 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 8: the internal damage I would suspect was so grievous that 154 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 8: she would not have survived. Even if you had had 155 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 8: a team of surgeon standing by there with her, she 156 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 8: wouldn't have had a shot. This is a holy lethal event. 157 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 8: I think that this show's intent. And right here, look 158 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 8: at him reaching in his pocket. He's that's a folding knife. 159 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 8: He's got Nancy. He's unfolding that he's getting ready to gauge. 160 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 8: He stands up and attacks her right there. And it 161 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 8: was that quick. 162 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: I believe just got Morgan. 163 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: The blood droplets you're talking about that we just showed 164 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: from the killer, because he just walks off with the 165 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: blood dripping, literally dripping from the knife. 166 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: And nobody does anything. Listen. 167 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: Carlos Brown walks up and down the aisle before the 168 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 3: train stops, at times stepping in IRENA's blood, spreading it 169 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: in the walkway. Brown is not approached by anyone on 170 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 3: the train, and as the train pulls into the station, 171 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: he deboords as if nothing has taken place. Irena Zarutzka 172 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 3: is bleeding to death on the train. As Brown exits 173 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 3: the train. Police locate a folding pocket knife nearby that 174 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: it's covered in blood. Irena is found laying on her 175 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: back next to a large amount of blood and a 176 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: stab wound in the middle of her neck. 177 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: Do you see him changing shirts? Can we see that 178 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: video again? Kelly Himan joining US high profile lawyer joining 179 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: us out of the Florida jurisdiction, Star off Once Upon 180 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: a Crime in Hollywood podcast. 181 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 4: Kelly the fact that he keep. 182 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: Rolling, changes his shirt to hide all the blood on 183 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 2: his hoodie. That is clearly consciousness of guilt. 184 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 9: This is a horrible tragedy, Dancy. And we're watching in 185 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 9: the video right now of him changing his shirt. Now, 186 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 9: this is something that never should have happened and hopefully 187 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 9: will never happen again, that someone who comes to this 188 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 9: country for promise and hope and for a new life 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 9: is killed on mass transit. 190 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: Changing shirt evidence of guilt, That's what I'm saying, Kelly. 191 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 9: Why it potentially shows evidence of guilt because it goes 192 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 9: to his state of mind. 193 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: You know two doctor Sue Cornblooth joining us, owner of 194 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: Doctor Sue and you author of Building Self Esteem and Children. 195 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: Doctor Sue, he didn't want people to see his bloody shirt. 196 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 4: When he got off the train. 197 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: Why didn't he want people to see his bloody shirt 198 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 2: because that would indicate he's the killer. That's white shows 199 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: evidence of guilt. He knows what he did was wrong. 200 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: That shows he knows it was wrong. He's trying to 201 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: get rid of the evidence. 202 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: Well, that brings this topic up. 203 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 10: Which other people are claiming that he's mentally ill and 204 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 10: that he didn't know what he was doing. But as 205 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 10: you can see right here. Oh he knows what he's doing, right, 206 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 10: taking off his shirt, putting something else on to cover 207 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 10: up the evidence that he has. So this is interesting. 208 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: Right was he mentally ill? Wasn't he mentally ill? 209 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 7: What happened here? 210 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 10: That's what I would like to know, Nancy, and I'm 211 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 10: sure everybody else wants to know that too. 212 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: And Tom Green joining US former Chief Deputy Washau County 213 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:57,479 Speaker 2: Sheriff's homicide detective, also currently owner Nevada Investigative Services. 214 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: Tom, he also got rid of the weapon. 215 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: He got rid of the weapon and hid his bloody 216 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: shirt evidence of guilt. 217 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: Evidence. He knew what he did was wrong. 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: And someone may have a mental illness before or after 219 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: the incident. 220 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 4: But what matters in our jurisprudence. 221 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: This is the law. Whether anybody else agrees or not, 222 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: the law. 223 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: Is, if you know right from wrong at the time 224 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: of the incident, you were not insane. It's called the 225 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: Old Naughton test, and it is brought over. 226 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: From Great Britain. 227 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: It was brought here to the US, and it is 228 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: part of our common law. 229 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: What is common law? Common law is. 230 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: Case law, their statutory law, which is. 231 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: The code the criminal code, the black and white letter 232 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 2: of the law that's been passed by the legislatures. And 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: then there is common law, commonly used law. The old 234 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: McNaughton test is the common law in the US. There 235 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 2: are a few exceptions to it. There are modifications to it. 236 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: Some jurisdictions don't even have insanity like Idaho doesn't even 237 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 2: have the insanity defense. But where it exists, such as 238 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: North Carolina, this jurisdiction, if you know right and wrong 239 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: at the time of the event, you are sane and 240 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: therefore responsible. What does this indicate to you, Tom Green, Well. 241 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 11: It indicates consciousness of guilt. And then you know, also, 242 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 11: if you watch that video, it appears that he's deliberating 243 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 11: with himself before he makes the overt act of. 244 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 8: Stabbing her in the neck. 245 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 4: What do you mean by that, Well. 246 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 11: You can see him basically talking to himself, and I've 247 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 11: read reports that he was overheard muttering to himself. You know, clearly, 248 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 11: he takes that knife out, he does the stabbing, like 249 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 11: you said, then he attempts to flee the scene. There's 250 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 11: nowhere to go, so he has to change his appearance. 251 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 11: He takes off his sweatshirt. It is probably covering his 252 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 11: hand because I think he also got cut my understanding, 253 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 11: and then as you said, he discards the evidence when 254 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 11: he leaves the When he leaves. 255 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: The rail, passengers aboard the train look on as Arena 256 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: bleeds out in front of them. As the suspect walks away, 257 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: nobody confronts him. Blood is dripping on the floor from 258 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 3: the knife and from Arena, but nobody offers her any help. Instead, 259 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: some of the passengers on the train use their phones 260 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 3: to video what is taking place. One of the passengers 261 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: calls nine to one. One. Known for her love of 262 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: animals and art, Irena dreams of becoming a veterinary assistant. 263 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: Her tight knit family supports her as she addaps to 264 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: life in the US, mastering English and landing a job 265 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: at pizza restaurant. But one faithful Friday night on her 266 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: journey home, things take a terrifying turn. 267 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: So innocent, so hard war working, this girl dead because 268 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: an ex con was walking out free on bond Thanks 269 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: Judd with a rap seat as long as I seventy 270 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: five there on the train to murder this girl. Those 271 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: are only a few of this guy's mugshots, and this 272 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: has echoed all the way to DC listen. 273 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 5: Surveillance video of the killing was finally released to the 274 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 5: public this past Friday. 275 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: It shows the alleged killer, to Carlos. 276 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 5: Brown Junior, pull out a knife, get up from his 277 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 5: seat behind Arena, and prepare to thrust a blade into 278 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 5: her neck before the released footage gets cut. This is 279 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 5: pure evil on full display. 280 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: Surveillance video shows suspect de Carlos Brown sitting behind Irena. 281 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: He takes a knife out of his pocket, unfolds the 282 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: blade and strikes Irena as there's got three times from behind. 283 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 3: She never saw it coming. As Brown walks away down 284 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: the aisle in the middle of the train, blood is 285 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: seen from the knife onto the floor. 286 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 4: Hmm. 287 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: You earlier heard the White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt 288 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: speaking from our friends at Fox. You know Joe Scott Morgan, 289 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 2: professor Forensic shacksvill State University death investigator. He stabbed her 290 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: multiple times. And the law is I'm going to get 291 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: Kelly Hymen on this in just a moment. 292 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: The law is that intent. 293 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: Can be formed in the blink of an eye blink, 294 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 2: just like that, and the twinkling of a moment. In 295 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: other words, in the time it takes as I use 296 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: for juries to raise the gun and pull the trigger. 297 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 4: That's long enough for intent. 298 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: It does not require a long, premeditated plan such as 299 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: poisoning someone over the course of weeks and months. 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 4: Till they die. 301 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't require any real period of time at all. 302 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 4: And I gave you the gun comparison. 303 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 2: But in this case, Joe Scott, he stabbed her multiple times, 304 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 2: which requires a lift and a stab, a lift and 305 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: a stab, a lift and a dad. Added to the 306 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: time that you pointed out that he's fumbling around in 307 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: his pocket to get the knife. All of that takes time. 308 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: Joe Scott, what do you believe was the force the 309 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: weighted force necessary to penetrate. 310 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: Her caroate it? 311 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 8: Huh, not very much. Hey, did you notice something, Nancy. 312 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 8: He didn't pick on a two hundred and fifty pound 313 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 8: construction worker with a hard hat, and I did. He 314 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 8: He picked on this young woman who literally I'm looking 315 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 8: at her. She reminds me of my daughter when my 316 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 8: daughter was this age, Built like a ballerina, she might 317 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 8: weigh maybe one hundred and ten pounds perhaps, and this 318 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 8: big guy goes after her. What you know, it's almost 319 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 8: it's almost like throwing throwing a brick through a stained 320 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 8: glass window. Where are you going to do this? What's 321 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 8: the purpose behind this? He's thinking about this, I can 322 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 8: tell you this. He's sure as hell. What unfolded that 323 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 8: knife so he could pick his nails or peel an apple? 324 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 8: Back there, he's summoning up. It's not courage, it's certainly 325 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 8: not courage. He's summoning up the maximum amount of evil 326 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 8: he can as he savages this poor girl. 327 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, roll that back one more time, 328 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: because you see him not only fish around for the knife, 329 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: you see him open up the blade as he's looking 330 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: through his pockets right there, he opened the blade. That 331 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 2: takes time, Kelly Himen, veteran trial lawyer, that's more than 332 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: enough time under the law to form intent to kill. 333 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: Intent is key. 334 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 9: For the first degree charge against him. Nancy, and you 335 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 9: bring up a really good point in the blink of 336 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 9: an instant is going to be key for this case 337 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 9: that at that moment he had the specific intent to 338 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 9: harm and cure cure the harm ant arm this woman. 339 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 2: You know, Tom Green, following up on what jo Scott 340 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 2: Morgan said, he didn't pick on a three hundred pounds 341 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: linebacker the size of fridge. He picked on this little girl. 342 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: To me, that is a predator. That is a predator 343 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: that picks his victim knowingly, with consciousness of forethought. 344 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 11: I agree, I mean he did. He looked like a predator, 345 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 11: and she looked like prayer. She had no idea that 346 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 11: attack was coming. You saw the surprise on her face, 347 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 11: the terror, the fear, and the shock. I mean, it's 348 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 11: just it's a horrific crime. 349 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: Well to me, all of that. Tom goes to intent. 350 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: Look at her, Oh my goodness, just you know, amazingly 351 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: physically beautiful, but Lauren Colin beautiful on the inside as well. 352 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 4: Explain. 353 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 6: Irena really cared about animals in need. She volunteered and 354 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 6: helped neighbor hood animals if they were, you know, hurt or. 355 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 7: Harmed in any way. And she was said to be 356 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 7: an amazing and passionate. 357 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 6: Artist and per her family Nancy, she just loved the 358 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 6: United States. 359 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 7: I mean, she was living in. 360 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 6: A bunker in Ukraine before she came here, obviously trying 361 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 6: to escape the war. She loved America and that's why 362 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 6: her family wants her to be very here. 363 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, war Torn in Ukraine, where 364 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 3: she was living in a bomb shelter. Twenty three year 365 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: old Irena Zarutzka immigrates with her mother, sister, and brother 366 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 3: to the United States. A graduate of Senergy College and 367 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 3: Art and Restoration, she shares her creativity with family and friends, 368 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 3: creating personal works of art for gifts and marking special 369 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 3: occasions and exploring new places. But Irena is a homebody 370 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 3: at heart, happiest surrounded by her pets and family, and 371 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 3: dreams of a career as a veterinary assistant. After her shift, 372 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: the college graduate boards the train unknowingly sitting in front 373 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: of de Carlos Brown, a man with a violent past. 374 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 3: Little does she know, Brown is about to alter the 375 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 3: course of her night. 376 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: You heard who. 377 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: Irina was living in a bunker in Ukraine, a bomb shelter. 378 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 4: Finally, her dream comes true. 379 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 2: She makes it to the US, only to meet up 380 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 2: with de Carlos Brown. 381 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: So we know who she is who is he. 382 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 5: The most enraging and unacceptable part of the story is 383 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 5: that her death was entirely preventable. De Carlos Brown never 384 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 5: should have been on that train that night. In fact, 385 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 5: he should have been behind bars. De Carlos Brown has 386 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 5: been charged with crimes no fewer than fourteen times dating 387 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 5: back to twenty and eleven, including for armed robbery, felony lars, 388 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 5: breaking and entering, and shoplifting. Brown had previously served five 389 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 5: years in prison for a robbery with a deadly weapon charge, 390 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 5: and he had also forfeited bonds three different times. 391 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 3: De Carlos Brown was born and raised in Charlotte, North Carolina, 392 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 3: and has a criminal record dating back to twenty eleven. 393 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: Many charges are for communicating threats and injury to property 394 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 3: that were dismissed by Mecklenburg District Attorneys Andrew Murray and 395 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 3: Spencer Merriweather. In April twenty fourteen, Brown pleaded guilty to 396 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 3: two twenty thirteen charges of felony larceny and breaking and entering. 397 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 3: A judge suspended his sentence of five to fifteen months 398 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 3: in prison. Instead, the judge ordered he served two years probation. 399 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: Oh, dear lord, So he pleads guilty to two charges 400 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: felony larceny and breaking and entering. But the judge do 401 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: we have a picture of The judge suspends the sentence 402 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: and gives him two years probation straight. Thanks judge, Thanks 403 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: two years straight probation, he walks out free. 404 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: You happy, judge? Are you happy? The guy pled guilty. 405 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: And took a sentence of jail time, and then the 406 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: judge suspended the sentence. Earlier, Elevet speaking from our friends 407 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: at Fox on Friend But guys, this is just the 408 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: tip of the iceberg. Our screen doesn't have room for 409 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: all of his mugshots. 410 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 4: Listen. 411 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 3: Four months into probation, Brown robs a man in South Charlotte. 412 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 3: Brown paced the complex for an hour before brandishing a handgun. 413 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: He demands the victim's phone and money, and left in 414 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 3: a two thousand and one Dodge caravan with the man 415 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 3: Samsung Galaxy Note four hundred and fifty dollars and one 416 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 3: hundred dollars Limpura Hondura's currency note. Police found Brown's car 417 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 3: at an apartment owned by his mother. He was cooperative 418 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 3: with officers at first and allowed officers to go inside. 419 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 3: When officers found the stolen items, he grew and asked 420 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 3: officers to leave. They don't leave, they arrest Brown. Brown 421 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: pleaded guilty to robbery with a dangerous weapon and was 422 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: sentenced to a maximum of eight years four months. He 423 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: served five years seven months before being released from Central Prison. 424 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 4: Kelly Hymen, that's a whole other can of worms. 425 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: When I was negotiating felony please, and or trying felonies. 426 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: Let's just say a young man comes in with five 427 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: hits a crack, all right, I could go with intend 428 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: to distribute on that five hits. 429 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 4: Was he going to do all that himself? 430 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: That's one thing. 431 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: But if he has a gun, that is a whole 432 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 2: another animal, because when you have a gun, that means 433 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 2: you're up to hurting somebody else. So it's not just 434 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 2: that he was calling nine one one and misusing nine 435 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: one one. It's not just he went into somebody's house 436 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 2: and stole something. He had a weapon on more than 437 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 2: one occasion. 438 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: And that kicks it up several notches. 439 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: And who and the hey let this guy walk after 440 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: brandishing weapons and they keep referring to a robbery. 441 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: It was not a robbery. He had a weapon when 442 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: he committed that robbery. 443 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 4: That's been pled down. 444 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: As we say, a robbery is a lot lighter sentence 445 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 2: than an armed robbery. An armed robbery, even if it's 446 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: a fake toy gun, a fake rubber knife, much less 447 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: a real knife or a real gun. You start at 448 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: a minimum a five years hard jail time minimum. So 449 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: if you can get your prosecutor to come off armed 450 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: and say, look, look, sentence made a ten years on robbery, 451 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: not five on armed because on robbery you'll walk in 452 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 2: about a year two years max. On armed robbery you 453 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 2: have a minimum of five. So somebody pled that down 454 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 2: and let him plead to robbery versus armed robbery. 455 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: But I mean brandishing a weapon. He should have been 456 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: behind bars. 457 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 9: The punishment should fit the crime. Nancy, And you bring 458 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 9: up a really good point about talking about the fact 459 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 9: that there was a gun involved in how that heightens 460 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 9: the crime as well. And we think about if in 461 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 9: fact he was behind bars, that this woman happened, this 462 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 9: young beautiful woman would not have lost her life. That 463 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 9: there needs to be some type of change that hopefully 464 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 9: this can shed light on the fact that such a 465 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 9: young woman, so beautiful, with so much hope, lost her 466 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 9: life and she did that and hopefully there'll be some 467 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 9: type of justice for her family. 468 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 2: Lauren Colin, I want to talk about the judge, but 469 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: first listen to more. This guy got so many breaks 470 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: from the system. 471 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: A fleet of defense attorneys helped him. 472 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: Cases were plied down byors, but most important the judge. 473 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: The judge. Listen. 474 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 5: Despite all of this past documented criminal history, when Brown 475 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 5: was arrested yet again in January of this past year, 476 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 5: a Democrat judge released this insane criminal once again without 477 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 5: requiring him to pay any bill. He simply had to 478 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 5: sign a written promise to return for his court hearing. 479 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 5: Think about how crazy it is to ask a career criminal, 480 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 5: someone who by definition repeatedly breaks the law, to just 481 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 5: sign a written promise and come back again another day. 482 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: This is madness. 483 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 5: This monster should have been locked up and Arena should 484 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 5: still be alive. 485 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: That's Carolyn Levett, the White House Press secretary speaking. 486 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 4: What is she talking about? 487 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: Oh wait till you hear. 488 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: This crime stores with Nancy Grace. 489 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: Listen. 490 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: In September twenty twenty two, Brown arrested on assault on 491 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: a female an injury to property. April twenty twenty four, 492 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: Brown arrested for misusing nine one one May twenty twenty four, 493 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: misusing nine one one January twenty twenty five, misusing nine 494 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 3: one one January twenty twenty five. Judge Teresa Stokes released 495 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 3: Brown the same day he was arrested on a written promise. 496 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: To appear. 497 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: Brown did not present himself for evaluation. Three weeks later, 498 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: he is alleged to have killed Irena. If that order 499 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: was followed, he would have been evaluated weeks before the stabbing. 500 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: The public defender in his murdered charge filed a motion 501 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: questioning Brown's mental capacity, and Wiggins again ordered dB evaluated. 502 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 3: Police have not identified any motive or lengthy attack to 503 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 3: mental illness. 504 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, okay, law and Colin. This guy's a 505 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: career criminal. And the judge, Teresa Stokes says, Okay, I'm 506 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: going to cush you loose, doing you a big favor, 507 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: but now you gotta promise, pinky, promise. 508 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: That you'll come. 509 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 4: Back to court again. 510 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: Pinky promise to promise, promise to Carlos Brow that you'll 511 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 2: come back. 512 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: What the hey was she thinking? 513 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 7: I have no words, Nancy. 514 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 6: The fact that he was walking on the street after 515 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 6: she knows what he's done, she knows these these assaults 516 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 6: that occurred, she knows that he had fourteen prior arrests 517 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 6: with weapons, he had pre basically assault bit his own sister. 518 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 6: So the fact, again that he was released on a 519 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 6: written promise to appear is incredibly, incredibly concerning, and at 520 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 6: this point, Republicans in North Carolina are asking her to 521 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 6: step down. 522 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 7: They are writing letters. 523 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: I really don't care who's a Democrat and who's Republican. Okay, 524 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: don't care. This is beyond anything political. I don't care 525 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: if you're red or blue, or green or purple. 526 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 4: Show me the video please, New York Control Room. 527 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: I don't care who you vote for in the secrecy 528 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: of the voting booth. If you do not believe that 529 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: this is pure evil and the judge who let him walk, 530 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: really all of them, it wasn't just one, should get 531 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: off the bench. They're too out of it. They must 532 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: be too complacent. They haven't been in the real world. 533 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 2: They've been in their ivory tower office in the courthouse 534 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: way too long. They need to look at this every 535 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 2: single day. Because of them, he was walking free and 536 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: she's dead. 537 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: You know what, I don't think they care, Kelly Hyman. 538 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 2: Judges, not all of them, but so many of them 539 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: don't care. Get off the bench if you don't care, 540 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 2: get the h double l out of the courthouse. I 541 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: just you know, I've had judges that just want to 542 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 2: clear the calendar. 543 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 4: They want to clear the calendar. 544 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: I had a judge, an amazing judge, Judge Luther Alberson, 545 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: and he was hell bent that we would have the 546 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 2: lowest jail count of anybody in the courthouse. Why because 547 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: he was so old that he could have been. 548 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 4: Forced into mandatory retirement. 549 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: But he was already on the bench when mandatory retirement 550 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: was enacted. 551 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: He wanted the jail count low. What's the jail count? 552 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: That's how many people are sitting in jail waiting for you, 553 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: the judge, to. 554 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: Adjudicate their case. 555 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: And if you've got a huge jail count, that must 556 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: mean you're not doing your job. But he would never 557 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: take a plea unless it was the right thing to do. 558 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: You to hay with the jail count. In fact, none 559 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: of my Please don't worry about that. But I've seen 560 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 2: him take a plea from prosecute and go the bench. 561 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 4: I eat me. 562 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: The bench rejects the plea agreement. 563 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: I advise both counsel to continue plea negotiations or we 564 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: will strike a jury. Yeah, he didn't have a problem 565 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 2: doing that if the plea was too low or out 566 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: of place or inappropriate. 567 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, what did that mean for me? 568 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: That means meant I had to go on trial trial 569 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: calendar every other week to keep the jail count low 570 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: and to get an appropriate sentence at trial. Okay, these 571 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 2: judges don't give a flying fig what the hate let 572 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: this guy walk free? Say, well, we're gonna get him evaluated, 573 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 2: but you let him walk for you're so concerned about 574 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: his mental state that you want a forensic mental value, 575 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: but you let him walk free to murder Arena. 576 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they need to be thrown off the bench, Kelly, Well, Nancy. 577 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 9: That will ultimately be up to the people who vote 578 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 9: for him, because in some states they can vote for 579 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 9: who they want as their judge. But then also the 580 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 9: governor can appoint the state judges as well, so it's 581 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 9: going to be different depending on the state. 582 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 4: But yes, and that's their. 583 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 9: Ultimate decision of whether or not that they want someone 584 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 9: on the bench to serve the people, because the judge ultimately. 585 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 7: Is the decider of the fact. And sadly, in this case, this. 586 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 9: Gentleman was not in jail or being mentally evaluated, and 587 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 9: he committed this pus penous crime of beautiful young girl. 588 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 2: What do you have to do to get a judge 589 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 2: off the bench? What put a stick of dynamite under 590 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 2: their rear end to say it's over. You're going to 591 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: have to go get a regular job like everybody else. 592 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 2: Look at crime stories. We don't care if you're a 593 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 2: Democrat or Republican. In fact, we could not care less 594 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 2: than we do. And I don't care who likes or 595 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 2: dislikes Trump. 596 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 4: That is not my concern. But what he is saying 597 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 4: here is true. 598 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 12: In Charlotte, North Carolina, we saw the results of these 599 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 12: policies when a twenty three year old woman who came 600 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 12: here from Ukraine met her bloody end on a public train. 601 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 12: And here's a picture of it. This is the picture 602 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 12: of it. And this is a picture of the woman, 603 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 12: a beautiful young girl that never had problems in life, 604 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 12: with a magnificent future in this country. And now she's dead. 605 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 12: She was slaughtered by a deranged monster who was roaming 606 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 12: free after fourteen prior. 607 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: Arrests from friends. 608 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 3: At Fox without warning, De Carlos Brown pulls out a 609 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 3: pocket knife, stands and lunges over the seat, stabbing Irena 610 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 3: in the neck. As he walks away. Irena fights desperately 611 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 3: for her life, clutching her neck to stop the flow 612 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 3: of blood. 613 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 2: Unable to call for help, and the passers by stood 614 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: there and let it happen. I don't know if you 615 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: are familiar with the Kitty Genevisi case. I had to 616 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 2: learn about it in first year of law school. Kitty 617 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: Genevisi May she Rest in peace, was brutally raped and murdered. 618 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 2: There were scores of onlookers that watched the attack and 619 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: did nothing, to the point that it is now called 620 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 2: the Kitty Genevisi syndrome. To doctor Sue Cornblue, renowned expert, 621 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 2: please explain the Kiddy Dinavasi syndrome. 622 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy, you hit on something that is very accurate here. 623 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 10: So the Kitty gen Avc case in nineteen sixty four 624 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 10: was that she was getting brutally murdered and people heard 625 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 10: about this, and nobody took it on to call the 626 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 10: police about this. Why because everybody believes that somebody else 627 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 10: is going. 628 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 7: To do it. So it's about the diffusion of responsibility. 629 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 10: But let me say this, when you are witnessing something, 630 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 10: it is everybody's responsibility to jump in right away and 631 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 10: do something, not bring out. 632 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 7: Your phone so that you can get your viral clip. 633 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 10: And it's not okay to think that somebody else is 634 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 10: going to step in and do something. We all have 635 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 10: the responsibility of citizens and human beings to have empathy 636 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 10: and compassion. And so when you see something that is 637 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 10: going on, it is everybody's responsibility to jump in and 638 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 10: do something. 639 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 7: And that didn't. 640 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 10: Happen here quick enough, and I want to remind people 641 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 10: of that. It is everybody's responsibility to jump in right 642 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 10: away and call nine to one one to get help 643 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 10: for somebody in need. That is what you would want 644 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 10: if something something was happening to you. It's not an 645 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 10: excuse anymore that you're going in to trauma and you're 646 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 10: not doing this because you have. 647 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 7: Enough whereabouts in your mind to get your video camera 648 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 7: up and video it. 649 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 10: And this just kills me because perhaps if this happened, 650 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 10: this beautiful young lady could have survived. 651 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 2: And you know, it takes another step to Joseph Scott Morgan, 652 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 2: Professor or Jacksonville State University. 653 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: Not only did they not help her, finally one. 654 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 2: Guy runs up and tries to start the float of 655 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: blood with his own shirt. They not only didn't act 656 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 2: to help her, they actively began videoing her dying. Now, 657 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 2: Kitty Genovesi was murdered outside her apartment and a full 658 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 2: view of everyone else in an apartment complex in Queens. 659 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 2: She was attacked, attacked and attacked three separate occasions before 660 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 2: she was before she actually died, and everyone stood by. 661 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: The people that watched Irena be attacked and die, they 662 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,280 Speaker 2: not only did nothing, they. 663 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: Actively began videoing the carnage. Joe Scott. 664 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like it's there. They're living in an alternate universe. 665 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 8: What good is that? Is that videography going to do? 666 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 8: You heard someone mention just a second ago, going viral, 667 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 8: so that you're telling me that trump's this young woman's life. 668 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 8: You've already been visited by a monster that was just 669 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 8: among you. He's exited stage right at this point. Oh now, 670 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 8: let's let's take a look and video. All that's left 671 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 8: here is as her as her life literally seeps out 672 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 8: of her neck onto the filthy floor of this train 673 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,479 Speaker 8: where she's just trying to get by in life, having 674 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 8: escaped Nancy, having escaped a war zone, a war zone, 675 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 8: and now she's in Charlotte, North Carolina, and get stabbed 676 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 8: in the throat by this guy. And let me tell 677 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 8: you what if you like that, let me tell you 678 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 8: one more thing. You were talking about judges and this 679 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 8: guy being cut loose on the rest of society. Nancy, 680 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 8: there's something that's gone unmentioned here. After he perpetrates this crime, 681 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 8: does everybody notice how casually he just kind of walks away. 682 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 8: It's almost like he's used to violence. It's almost like 683 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,959 Speaker 8: he knows he is not gonna be punished. This guy 684 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 8: has to be off the streets. They cannot let him 685 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 8: back out there. He is the worst of us. He 686 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 8: needs to be retained, He needs to be held to account. 687 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 8: He never needs to see the light of day again. 688 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 2: You know what, I agree with you, But don't you 689 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 2: understand it's in daylight and a dollar short. All of 690 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 2: these judges should have had him off the street at 691 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,879 Speaker 2: the get go. 692 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 4: But there he is, taking his shirt off. 693 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 2: God forbid that anyone sees blood on his shirt after 694 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 2: he murders Arena Tom Green. 695 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: Everything Joe Scott Morgan just said is correct. 696 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 11: Absolutely, But you know, we're looking at cashless bail, we're 697 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 11: looking at restorative justice when we know what works. Incapacitation works. 698 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 11: If he had been locked up, she'd be alive. Who 699 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 11: else is he victimized? 700 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: Why he's even on that rail? 701 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 8: He has no job, What does he do? 702 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 11: How did he get on? How do he afford to 703 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 11: get the ticket to get on there? 704 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 7: Here? 705 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 11: She is coming home from work, like you said, coming 706 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 11: from a war zone. 707 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 7: She's a survivor. 708 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 11: And to be snuffed out by this coward is animal. 709 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 2: Or anybody, not just such a beautiful cover girl like her, 710 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 2: but anybody. What if that had been a child in 711 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 2: front of him? And to doctor Sue Cornblooth joining us, 712 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 2: I just want an addendum to the Kitty Genovisi case. 713 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 2: I don't know if you recall. His name was Winston Moseley. 714 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: He murdered her at age twenty nine. He confessed, he 715 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 2: was tried, he was convicted. We pay for his three 716 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 2: hots and a cot for fifty two years. He lived 717 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 2: to age eighty one. 718 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: I mean they're in the. 719 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 2: Library, meeting with lawyers, reading books, enjoying his meals. 720 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: Blah blah, fifty two. 721 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 2: Years we pay for him after he murdered, raped and murdered, 722 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 2: brutally murdered Kitty Geneves. Now mirror image to Carlos Brown, 723 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 2: same thing. He should have already been behind bars and 724 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 2: this and everybody not only did nothing, they videoed it. 725 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 7: It's so troubling, Nancy. It's so disturbed. And what I hope. 726 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 10: Happens here is this guy is put in the justice 727 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 10: system once and for all, and you know, seeks the 728 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 10: judge here, seeks justice for what has gone on here, 729 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 10: because as you said before to me, there is no 730 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 10: room for him to have been let out into the 731 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 10: streets without having a thorough forensic evaluation done. Do you 732 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 10: know I believe I read Nancy that he had already 733 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 10: been arrested fourteen to twenty two times and the mental 734 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 10: health evaluation was just ordered this past July. 735 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 7: Are you kidding me? He should have been evaluated for 736 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 7: day one. 737 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 10: It was his mother, his mother that took him to 738 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 10: get evaluated, and then they said that he had schizophrenia. 739 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 10: But let me say this, schizophrenia right, yes, that is 740 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 10: a mental disorder, but not all schizophrenics are murderers. Schizophrenics 741 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 10: take their medication and some of them do very well. 742 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 10: For me, Nancy, this was a drop in the legal 743 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 10: system and a judge unfortunately did not do his job 744 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 10: and put this mentally ill person back into society when 745 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 10: he was already doing things to hurt others. 746 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: Well, another thing, doctor Seu, is if they were so worried. 747 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 2: They must not have been that worried about his mental 748 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 2: ailment if it exists, because if they. 749 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 4: Were, why would they let him walk out the front door. 750 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 2: So they must not have been too worried about all 751 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 2: of us or about Arena. Guys, Hello, we hear your 752 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 2: phone calls from jail. I'm not telling anything you shouldn't 753 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 2: already know. But people still yack. The smartest people yack 754 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,439 Speaker 2: behind bars. They cannot keep their pieholes shut. And here 755 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 2: is the Carlos Brown yakking with his sister. 756 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: You said something in your body did what? Yeah? 757 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 13: Now the material? Uh, I feel like the material used 758 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 13: my body. 759 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 7: Step the lady and so she just got stabbed. 760 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 13: You know that's not me. I'm talking about this for 761 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 13: no reason. But since they did that, Since they did that, 762 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 13: now they got to investigating materia. My body is supposed 763 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 13: to they want to do all that. Now they got 764 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 13: to investigate. 765 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 9: Fu she's from she's from the Ukraine, she's from Russia. 766 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 9: And you know, they got a warrant. 767 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 7: They had a war going on against the United States. 768 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 7: So I'm just trying to understand of all people. 769 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 13: That's Hey, it ain't I don't have nothing. They just 770 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 13: lashed out on her. That's that. That's what happened. They 771 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 13: lashed out on her, what was working out, who was 772 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 13: working at whoever was working in material? They last out 773 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 13: on they. 774 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: They obviously they is him. He lashed out. 775 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about Arena's murder, 776 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 2: even if you think it's inconsequential, it may not matter. 777 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 2: Please call the tip line seven zero four three three 778 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 2: four sixteen hundred Repeat seven zero four three three four 779 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 2: sixteen hundred. Now we remember an American hero, Sheriff Robert Rogers, 780 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 2: Wilcox County Sheriff's Georgia, killed in the line of duty 781 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 2: after twenty two years in law enforcement, leaving behind a 782 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 2: grieving widow, Heley, and son Robert. American hero Sheriff Robert Rogers. 783 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests, but it's alsure to you 784 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 2: for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, I'll see 785 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 2: you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend, m 786 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: HM.