Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: We're talking with David Rolf. We're talking about the Shroud
Speaker 2: of torn And I was just thinking of all the
Speaker 2: religious artifacts I think that we've been looking for, like
Speaker 2: the the Holy Grail, the Arc of the Covenant, maybe
Speaker 2: the maybe the actual arc. Is this really the one
Speaker 2: thing that we have the most empirical evidence that it
Speaker 2: is what it claims to be so far as you.
Speaker 3: Know, Well, it is actually now one of the most
Speaker 3: studied objects from antiquity that there is. And to sort
Speaker 3: of mixed metaphors as it were, it's it's achilles heel
Speaker 3: that the thing that would condemn it as a forgery
Speaker 3: has yet to be found. And the other thing is
Speaker 3: it's actually the impossible for us to reproduce it today. Nothing,
Speaker 3: nothing that we have can actually create an midge like that.
Speaker 2: He's not a three D printer, not a uh, not
Speaker 2: a flash of a light from a printer. So tell
Speaker 2: everybody about your your million dollar offer that you put
Speaker 2: out there, because I thought that was very intriguing at
Speaker 2: the end of your documentary.
Speaker 3: David, Well, it's it was because reproducing the shroud the
Speaker 3: claim is that no one can do it. And the
Speaker 3: British when the British Museum carbonated this this corner and
Speaker 3: came out they said at the press conference when they
Speaker 3: announced it. But John, they said, well, how do you
Speaker 3: explain the image on the shroud, And the head of
Speaker 3: the British Museum said, well, some some forger just faked
Speaker 3: it up and flogged it. I don't know if you
Speaker 3: have that expression flogged it in America, but it's a
Speaker 3: slang word for selling it. So some some some medieval
Speaker 3: forger faked it up and sold it. That was the
Speaker 3: verdict from the British Museum.
Speaker 2: And by the way, until your documentary, I kind of
Speaker 2: thought that was the last word on the shroud. Until
Speaker 2: I saw your documentary, I thought that it had been
Speaker 2: proven a fake. I did not know that all this
Speaker 2: exhaustive research in scientific basically an autopsy of the of
Speaker 2: the cloth had been done and you were at the
Speaker 2: head of and going, oh no, no, that's not that's
Speaker 2: not a forgery. Nobody could forge that. I don't care
Speaker 2: how genius you are. You could be the Michaelangelo of forgers,
Speaker 2: but you could not forge this cloth.
Speaker 3: That's true. And there was there was a lot of
Speaker 3: tension between between Rome and Churin. As I say, Rome,
Speaker 3: the Vaticans thought it was in charge of the cook
Speaker 3: but the cheur In, very proud of their own responsibility,
Speaker 3: said no, we're in charge of it, and they gave
Speaker 3: responsibility to a member a lecture from the local part,
Speaker 3: tend to supervise it. And when it came to it
Speaker 3: in the actual preparation for it and the how do
Speaker 3: I put it in the atmosphere in the room, when
Speaker 3: the shroud was finally laid out in front of everybody,
Speaker 3: he made a decision there and then that as this
Speaker 3: was the croth that that wrapped Jesus, and you needed
Speaker 3: to destroy a tiny part of it, a couple just
Speaker 3: a couple of square inches, why take samples as had
Speaker 3: been stipulated in the protocols, taking at least seven samples
Speaker 3: from different parts of the cloth in order to average
Speaker 3: it out. He insisted that they just choose one corner
Speaker 3: which would which would never be noticed by anybody, and
Speaker 3: they should just date that, and the British Museum should
Speaker 3: have said, sorry, that's not the protocol. We have to
Speaker 3: take a sample from different parts of the cloth. We
Speaker 3: have no idea what's happened to this cross over this
Speaker 3: time and then get an average. But they were so
Speaker 3: desperate to actually have a date that they could crame,
Speaker 3: they agreed, and therefore they took the sample from the
Speaker 3: one plate world from a corner which we now know
Speaker 3: was a medieval.
Speaker 1: With it was.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a terrible thing to happen, but that's it's
Speaker 3: human nature.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you've you've moved way past that. Almost
Speaker 2: you almost cover every objection in this documentary that anybody
Speaker 2: could ever have. I mean, you can be the biggest skeptic,
Speaker 2: and I actually think that's okay to be a big
Speaker 2: skeptic because I mean, if it's if it's real, then
Speaker 2: it should stand up to the skepticism, right, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: whatever your your faith is. I'd like to take a
Speaker 2: couple of calls, if you don't mind, Let's go to
Speaker 2: Hope in North Carolina on the Wildcard line. Hope you're
Speaker 2: on with David Ralph. Welcome to Coast to Coast, Am.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm always lucky, happy to be here and listen.
Speaker 4: I've studied to shout my own stuff a little bit
Speaker 4: via YouTube. I'll be honest, but what I came up
Speaker 4: with was number one. I don't know if it was
Speaker 4: my mind or in one of the documentaries. It's possible
Speaker 4: that that shroud is the tablecloths from the Last Supper.
Speaker 4: If you look at the shroud and there's this stain
Speaker 4: at the forehead that looks like an e incursive, and
Speaker 4: then if you reverse the shroud, then that e becomes
Speaker 4: a three. And there was an earthquake on the day
Speaker 4: of the crucifixion, and he rose on the third day.
Speaker 4: If you stick an een of three together, it makes
Speaker 4: an eight, and E is the fifth letter, and three
Speaker 4: and five and eight. And I always thought it was
Speaker 4: thirteen feet long, but at fourteen feet long, we have
Speaker 4: another eight at a three foot by fourteen foot piece
Speaker 4: of cloth. And I also learned that you cannot make
Speaker 4: that image on cloth unless it was created by something
Speaker 4: beyond the visible white spectrum. These are all like heavy
Speaker 4: duty stuff. And lift the number eight as above, so
Speaker 4: below missry solved again in another way. I guess I'd
Speaker 4: like to believe that Jesus on there.
Speaker 5: But was there a question or just some thoughts?
Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of thought. My question is has he
Speaker 4: heard these things in his studies or did I come
Speaker 4: up with it on my own end or I've also
Speaker 4: heard that the blood typing is rh negative on the
Speaker 4: shroud blo.
Speaker 5: I didn't know about the blood type, David.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, the various sufficient blood. Obviously there's there's there's
Speaker 3: blood on the cloth and it's retained his characteristics, and
Speaker 3: the blood itself is consistent with that part of of Israel, Palestine,
Speaker 3: so that we know that whoever, whoever's blood it is
Speaker 3: came from that part of the world.
Speaker 5: Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Didn't the shroud survive a couple of fires too kind
Speaker 2: of along its journey?
Speaker 5: Yes, it did.
Speaker 3: Fire was always a problem in history, but it was
Speaker 3: and it was kept folded in a in a in
Speaker 3: a a chest and in the fire surrounded it and
Speaker 3: the chest got very hot and the silver from the
Speaker 3: chest melted and fell onto one corner which had been folded.
Speaker 3: So when you unfold the shroud, and you if you
Speaker 3: fold up a piece of paper, you know, if you
Speaker 3: just pull a corner off and when you open it up,
Speaker 3: you have that pattern repeated over the length. That's the
Speaker 3: pattern that you see on the show where where the
Speaker 3: where the molten silver landed on it. Fortunately it doesn't
Speaker 3: affect the image in anyway.
Speaker 4: But what it.
Speaker 3: Also shows is is the nature of this scorch from
Speaker 3: the molten silver has exactly the same characteristics as the
Speaker 3: image of the body, because the image of the body
Speaker 3: is itself a scorch.
Speaker 2: Can a regular person like myself, if I want to
Speaker 2: do a head over to touring, could I go look
Speaker 2: at the cloth or is there is it still under wraps?
Speaker 3: You will be able to Next year it's a two
Speaker 3: hundredth anniversary of its arrival Insurin. It's normally kept in
Speaker 3: a seal air type container and to preserve it, but
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, the two thousandth anniversary, it's going
Speaker 3: to be coming out so the people can actually see
Speaker 3: it itself.
Speaker 2: Now in your in your documentary, have you been close
Speaker 2: to the actual shroud and does it does it feel
Speaker 2: different being around it?
Speaker 3: Well, because of the first film I made back in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, my credibility with Churin was very strong
Speaker 3: and they were very keen to help me, and they
Speaker 3: actually took the shroud out of its container sealed and
Speaker 3: actually just put it out into an annex of the
Speaker 3: cathedral to allow me to film it. In high definition
Speaker 3: for the first time, and that sequence, of course is
Speaker 3: including it in this film.
Speaker 2: In a way, you're sort of like a modern day
Speaker 2: doubting Thomas.
Speaker 5: Are you not.
Speaker 3: Well as famously as I say I was, I was
Speaker 3: certainly not a believer, but I was somebody who knew
Speaker 3: a lot about images. And I think I may have
Speaker 3: mentioned I was an atheist. I wouldn't even have my
Speaker 3: daughter baptized, that's how anti religious I was. But my
Speaker 3: experience and all the various miracles, some bigger, some smaller
Speaker 3: in the whole journey to get this film made, I
Speaker 3: mean just raising the finance to make it as an
Speaker 3: independent producer with a miracle and assisted by a charismatic,
Speaker 3: wonderful priest who'd been was born Insuran and eventually emigrated
Speaker 3: to New York. And I went to see him, and
Speaker 3: through his own connections is Fro an independent producer. Believe me,
Speaker 3: this is this is amazing. I wanted to make the film.
Speaker 3: He introduced me to somebody who was an heir to
Speaker 3: one of the big brewery fortunes. I got myself in
Speaker 3: front of him and said, look, I want to make
Speaker 3: this film. And I walked away with the with the
Speaker 3: equivalent from that lunch table with the equivalent of a
Speaker 3: million dollars to make that first film. It was three
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pounds then, but that's what it was then.
Speaker 3: So the whole story is a lizard with miracles.
Speaker 2: Well, even just as a as a watcher of the film,
Speaker 2: the quality of the film making that you have here
Speaker 2: is really astounding. It's really worth a watch, and I
Speaker 2: would say, especially if you're a skeptic, it's worth a
Speaker 2: watch because it might it might turn what you think
Speaker 2: you know kind of on your ear a little bit.
Speaker 2: And it kind of made me wonder. I wonder if
Speaker 2: there was any relief just sex or organizations that fight
Speaker 2: you on the authenticity still or now that you've laid
Speaker 2: out the clinical science of it all, if people more
Speaker 2: or less step step in line with your thoughts.
Speaker 3: Well nobody. If it was a Picasso or some artists
Speaker 3: that come in arguing about it, you could have an
Speaker 3: academic debate. But the thing is, this is an image
Speaker 3: of the person who changed the world, and people have
Speaker 3: very strong views both falling against it, so nobody can
Speaker 3: actually come at it completely without their own their own
Speaker 3: views coming to it. So that's that's one of the
Speaker 3: potencies of the Cross. It's not just a piece of
Speaker 3: art it is in my view, it's it's it's a
Speaker 3: record of the single event that has its biggest impact
Speaker 3: on the Western world, which is Christianity.
Speaker 2: But you've done just an awesome job with that documentary.
Speaker 2: Just time for a quick call here, let's go East
Speaker 2: of the Rockies. Patrick in Texas, Welcome to Coast to
Speaker 2: Coast You're on with David Rolf. We're talking about the
Speaker 2: Shroud of Turin.
Speaker 5: Hello. Yes, sir, thank you so much for checking book call.
Speaker 4: And I want to say David so much, thank you
Speaker 4: for what you're doing and God love you for it.
Speaker 4: I want to know according to the Shroud, how tall
Speaker 4: is shoes.
Speaker 5: Is five foot?
Speaker 3: I did unless I can go there's so many statistics
Speaker 3: in my head.
Speaker 5: He would have been very tall for that time. Yes.
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