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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: We're talking with David Rolf. We're talking about the Shroud

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Speaker 2: of torn And I was just thinking of all the

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Speaker 2: religious artifacts I think that we've been looking for, like

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Speaker 2: the the Holy Grail, the Arc of the Covenant, maybe

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Speaker 2: the maybe the actual arc. Is this really the one

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Speaker 2: thing that we have the most empirical evidence that it

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Speaker 2: is what it claims to be so far as you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Well, it is actually now one of the most

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Speaker 3: studied objects from antiquity that there is. And to sort

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Speaker 3: of mixed metaphors as it were, it's it's achilles heel

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Speaker 3: that the thing that would condemn it as a forgery

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Speaker 3: has yet to be found. And the other thing is

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Speaker 3: it's actually the impossible for us to reproduce it today. Nothing,

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Speaker 3: nothing that we have can actually create an midge like that.

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Speaker 2: He's not a three D printer, not a uh, not

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Speaker 2: a flash of a light from a printer. So tell

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Speaker 2: everybody about your your million dollar offer that you put

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Speaker 2: out there, because I thought that was very intriguing at

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Speaker 2: the end of your documentary.

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Speaker 3: David, Well, it's it was because reproducing the shroud the

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Speaker 3: claim is that no one can do it. And the

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Speaker 3: British when the British Museum carbonated this this corner and

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Speaker 3: came out they said at the press conference when they

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Speaker 3: announced it. But John, they said, well, how do you

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Speaker 3: explain the image on the shroud, And the head of

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Speaker 3: the British Museum said, well, some some forger just faked

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Speaker 3: it up and flogged it. I don't know if you

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Speaker 3: have that expression flogged it in America, but it's a

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Speaker 3: slang word for selling it. So some some some medieval

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Speaker 3: forger faked it up and sold it. That was the

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Speaker 3: verdict from the British Museum.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, until your documentary, I kind of

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Speaker 2: thought that was the last word on the shroud. Until

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Speaker 2: I saw your documentary, I thought that it had been

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Speaker 2: proven a fake. I did not know that all this

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Speaker 2: exhaustive research in scientific basically an autopsy of the of

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Speaker 2: the cloth had been done and you were at the

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Speaker 2: head of and going, oh no, no, that's not that's

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Speaker 2: not a forgery. Nobody could forge that. I don't care

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Speaker 2: how genius you are. You could be the Michaelangelo of forgers,

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Speaker 2: but you could not forge this cloth.

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Speaker 3: That's true. And there was there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: tension between between Rome and Churin. As I say, Rome,

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Speaker 3: the Vaticans thought it was in charge of the cook

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Speaker 3: but the cheur In, very proud of their own responsibility,

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Speaker 3: said no, we're in charge of it, and they gave

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Speaker 3: responsibility to a member a lecture from the local part,

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Speaker 3: tend to supervise it. And when it came to it

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Speaker 3: in the actual preparation for it and the how do

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Speaker 3: I put it in the atmosphere in the room, when

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Speaker 3: the shroud was finally laid out in front of everybody,

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Speaker 3: he made a decision there and then that as this

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Speaker 3: was the croth that that wrapped Jesus, and you needed

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Speaker 3: to destroy a tiny part of it, a couple just

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Speaker 3: a couple of square inches, why take samples as had

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Speaker 3: been stipulated in the protocols, taking at least seven samples

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Speaker 3: from different parts of the cloth in order to average

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Speaker 3: it out. He insisted that they just choose one corner

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Speaker 3: which would which would never be noticed by anybody, and

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Speaker 3: they should just date that, and the British Museum should

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Speaker 3: have said, sorry, that's not the protocol. We have to

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Speaker 3: take a sample from different parts of the cloth. We

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Speaker 3: have no idea what's happened to this cross over this

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Speaker 3: time and then get an average. But they were so

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Speaker 3: desperate to actually have a date that they could crame,

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Speaker 3: they agreed, and therefore they took the sample from the

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Speaker 3: one plate world from a corner which we now know

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Speaker 3: was a medieval.

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Speaker 1: With it was.

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Speaker 4: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was a terrible thing to happen, but that's it's

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Speaker 3: human nature.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you've you've moved way past that. Almost

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Speaker 2: you almost cover every objection in this documentary that anybody

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Speaker 2: could ever have. I mean, you can be the biggest skeptic,

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Speaker 2: and I actually think that's okay to be a big

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Speaker 2: skeptic because I mean, if it's if it's real, then

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Speaker 2: it should stand up to the skepticism, right, whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: whatever your your faith is. I'd like to take a

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Speaker 2: couple of calls, if you don't mind, Let's go to

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Speaker 2: Hope in North Carolina on the Wildcard line. Hope you're

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Speaker 2: on with David Ralph. Welcome to Coast to Coast, Am.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm always lucky, happy to be here and listen.

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Speaker 4: I've studied to shout my own stuff a little bit

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Speaker 4: via YouTube. I'll be honest, but what I came up

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Speaker 4: with was number one. I don't know if it was

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Speaker 4: my mind or in one of the documentaries. It's possible

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Speaker 4: that that shroud is the tablecloths from the Last Supper.

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Speaker 4: If you look at the shroud and there's this stain

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Speaker 4: at the forehead that looks like an e incursive, and

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Speaker 4: then if you reverse the shroud, then that e becomes

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Speaker 4: a three. And there was an earthquake on the day

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Speaker 4: of the crucifixion, and he rose on the third day.

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Speaker 4: If you stick an een of three together, it makes

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Speaker 4: an eight, and E is the fifth letter, and three

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Speaker 4: and five and eight. And I always thought it was

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Speaker 4: thirteen feet long, but at fourteen feet long, we have

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Speaker 4: another eight at a three foot by fourteen foot piece

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Speaker 4: of cloth. And I also learned that you cannot make

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Speaker 4: that image on cloth unless it was created by something

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Speaker 4: beyond the visible white spectrum. These are all like heavy

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Speaker 4: duty stuff. And lift the number eight as above, so

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Speaker 4: below missry solved again in another way. I guess I'd

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Speaker 4: like to believe that Jesus on there.

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Speaker 5: But was there a question or just some thoughts?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of thought. My question is has he

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Speaker 4: heard these things in his studies or did I come

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Speaker 4: up with it on my own end or I've also

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Speaker 4: heard that the blood typing is rh negative on the

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Speaker 4: shroud blo.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know about the blood type, David.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, the various sufficient blood. Obviously there's there's there's

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Speaker 3: blood on the cloth and it's retained his characteristics, and

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Speaker 3: the blood itself is consistent with that part of of Israel, Palestine,

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Speaker 3: so that we know that whoever, whoever's blood it is

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Speaker 3: came from that part of the world.

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Speaker 5: Wow, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: Didn't the shroud survive a couple of fires too kind

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Speaker 2: of along its journey?

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Speaker 5: Yes, it did.

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Speaker 3: Fire was always a problem in history, but it was

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Speaker 3: and it was kept folded in a in a in

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Speaker 3: a a chest and in the fire surrounded it and

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Speaker 3: the chest got very hot and the silver from the

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Speaker 3: chest melted and fell onto one corner which had been folded.

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Speaker 3: So when you unfold the shroud, and you if you

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Speaker 3: fold up a piece of paper, you know, if you

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Speaker 3: just pull a corner off and when you open it up,

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Speaker 3: you have that pattern repeated over the length. That's the

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Speaker 3: pattern that you see on the show where where the

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Speaker 3: where the molten silver landed on it. Fortunately it doesn't

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Speaker 3: affect the image in anyway.

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Speaker 4: But what it.

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Speaker 3: Also shows is is the nature of this scorch from

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Speaker 3: the molten silver has exactly the same characteristics as the

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Speaker 3: image of the body, because the image of the body

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Speaker 3: is itself a scorch.

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Speaker 2: Can a regular person like myself, if I want to

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Speaker 2: do a head over to touring, could I go look

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Speaker 2: at the cloth or is there is it still under wraps?

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Speaker 3: You will be able to Next year it's a two

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Speaker 3: hundredth anniversary of its arrival Insurin. It's normally kept in

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Speaker 3: a seal air type container and to preserve it, but

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, the two thousandth anniversary, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be coming out so the people can actually see

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Speaker 3: it itself.

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Speaker 2: Now in your in your documentary, have you been close

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Speaker 2: to the actual shroud and does it does it feel

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Speaker 2: different being around it?

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Speaker 3: Well, because of the first film I made back in

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, my credibility with Churin was very strong

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Speaker 3: and they were very keen to help me, and they

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Speaker 3: actually took the shroud out of its container sealed and

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Speaker 3: actually just put it out into an annex of the

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Speaker 3: cathedral to allow me to film it. In high definition

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Speaker 3: for the first time, and that sequence, of course is

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Speaker 3: including it in this film.

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Speaker 2: In a way, you're sort of like a modern day

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Speaker 2: doubting Thomas.

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Speaker 5: Are you not.

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Speaker 3: Well as famously as I say I was, I was

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Speaker 3: certainly not a believer, but I was somebody who knew

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Speaker 3: a lot about images. And I think I may have

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Speaker 3: mentioned I was an atheist. I wouldn't even have my

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Speaker 3: daughter baptized, that's how anti religious I was. But my

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Speaker 3: experience and all the various miracles, some bigger, some smaller

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Speaker 3: in the whole journey to get this film made, I

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Speaker 3: mean just raising the finance to make it as an

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Speaker 3: independent producer with a miracle and assisted by a charismatic,

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Speaker 3: wonderful priest who'd been was born Insuran and eventually emigrated

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Speaker 3: to New York. And I went to see him, and

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Speaker 3: through his own connections is Fro an independent producer. Believe me,

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Speaker 3: this is this is amazing. I wanted to make the film.

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Speaker 3: He introduced me to somebody who was an heir to

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Speaker 3: one of the big brewery fortunes. I got myself in

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Speaker 3: front of him and said, look, I want to make

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Speaker 3: this film. And I walked away with the with the

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Speaker 3: equivalent from that lunch table with the equivalent of a

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Speaker 3: million dollars to make that first film. It was three

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pounds then, but that's what it was then.

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Speaker 3: So the whole story is a lizard with miracles.

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Speaker 2: Well, even just as a as a watcher of the film,

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Speaker 2: the quality of the film making that you have here

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Speaker 2: is really astounding. It's really worth a watch, and I

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Speaker 2: would say, especially if you're a skeptic, it's worth a

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Speaker 2: watch because it might it might turn what you think

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Speaker 2: you know kind of on your ear a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And it kind of made me wonder. I wonder if

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Speaker 2: there was any relief just sex or organizations that fight

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Speaker 2: you on the authenticity still or now that you've laid

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Speaker 2: out the clinical science of it all, if people more

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Speaker 2: or less step step in line with your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Well nobody. If it was a Picasso or some artists

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Speaker 3: that come in arguing about it, you could have an

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Speaker 3: academic debate. But the thing is, this is an image

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Speaker 3: of the person who changed the world, and people have

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Speaker 3: very strong views both falling against it, so nobody can

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Speaker 3: actually come at it completely without their own their own

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Speaker 3: views coming to it. So that's that's one of the

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Speaker 3: potencies of the Cross. It's not just a piece of

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Speaker 3: art it is in my view, it's it's it's a

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Speaker 3: record of the single event that has its biggest impact

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Speaker 3: on the Western world, which is Christianity.

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Speaker 2: But you've done just an awesome job with that documentary.

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Speaker 2: Just time for a quick call here, let's go East

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Speaker 2: of the Rockies. Patrick in Texas, Welcome to Coast to

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Speaker 2: Coast You're on with David Rolf. We're talking about the

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Speaker 2: Shroud of Turin.

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Speaker 5: Hello. Yes, sir, thank you so much for checking book call.

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Speaker 4: And I want to say David so much, thank you

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Speaker 4: for what you're doing and God love you for it.

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Speaker 4: I want to know according to the Shroud, how tall

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Speaker 4: is shoes.

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Speaker 5: Is five foot?

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Speaker 3: I did unless I can go there's so many statistics

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Speaker 3: in my head.

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Speaker 5: He would have been very tall for that time. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight

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Speaker 1: at one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

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Speaker 1: dot com for more