1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Valentine's Day is just around the corner, so 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: we thought we'd have a love story for today's classic 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: sort of. It's actually the tragic story, but even before 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: it turns tragic, one of its protagonists comes off as 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a creeper. Uh. This is the 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: story of Abalard and Heloise, which first came out on 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: the podcast in We got a number of notes after 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: this podcast was first published about whether eloise should be 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: pronounced with or without an H, and we basically had 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: pronounced it the way my medieval literature professor pronounced it. 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: So let's listen in Welcome to Stuff you missed in 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: History Class from how Stuffworks dot com. Hello, and welcome 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: to the podcast Tracy Wilson. And today we have something 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: that has been request of listeners was also something I 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: planned to do, and that is uh, the story of 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Abelard and Heloise. So. Abillard was a poet, of philosopher 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: and a theologian, and he was born uh in Brittany, 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: which is in northwest France today, in ten seventy nine. 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: And in the words of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: he was quote the pre eminent philosopher and theologian of 21 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: the twelfth century. Heloise was one of his students, and 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: she was born right around the turn of the twelfth century, 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: and she was a respected abbess of a prominent community 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: of nuns. Uh So they sort of had their own 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: lives there. But they are best known today for their 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: very tragic love story. It's been commemorated in poems, songs, novels, 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: and films. If you've ever seen Being John Malkovich, you 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: may even remember the Avalard and Heloise puppet show that 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: features in that film. Um, this is a tragic love story. 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: It's one. I described the plot of it to the 31 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: boyfriend over the weekend, and every time I would sort 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: of get to a turning point, he would go and 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: then everyone's okay with that? Right? No, Um, that's so hopeful, 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: And no, honey, they were not okay with that. It's 35 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: complete with lovers who were forced to part, a secret marriage, 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: a castration, and repeated exhumations, which is why we're talking 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: about it right before Valentine's Day. What's more romantic than 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: an exhumation? Really, I know, well, the exhumations actually are 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: kind of romantic in a way. So we we will 40 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: get to that towards the end of the episode. I'm 41 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: laughing that awkward, silent laugh where no noise comes out. 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: My face is just frozen in this odd scowl. Yeah, 43 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: as as is often the case, we're talking about this 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: story because I kind of love it, but it is 45 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: very sad and and disturbing in many ways. So yes, 46 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: so we'll kick it off with sort of the background 47 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: of the whole thing, and we should at the front. 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: We don't really know very much about Heloise's life before 49 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: she met Abillard. We do not even know the identity 50 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: of her parents. On the other hand, Abillard had really 51 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: made a name for himself before Heloise was even born, 52 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: and he wrote his life story down in a letter 53 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: which is known as Historia Calamitatum, or the Story of 54 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: My Misfortunes. So Pierre Abillard, also known as Peter Abillard, 55 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: was the son of a knight, and his family was 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: on the lower wrongs of the nobility. His father was 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: an educated man and took pains to make sure that 58 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: all of his children were educated too, But as the 59 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: eldest son, Abelard was really meant to follow in his 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: father's knightly footsteps, and in doing so he would also 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: be receiving a sizeable inheritance. However, what Abillard really loved 62 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: was letters and learning, and he gave up all of 63 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: this potential knighthood to become a philosopher. And as he 64 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: described it, quote, I fled utterly from the court of 65 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Mars that I might win learning in the bosom of Minerva, 66 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: which is a lovely sentiment. This quite lovely. There are 67 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: many lovely sentiments in this story to go with the 68 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: parts that are horrifying. Um. He became an inherent of Aristotle, 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: also known as a peripatetic, and the peripatetics purportedly got 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: their name from Aristotle's habit of pacing around while he 71 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: was teaching, but it also came to just generally described 72 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: people who moved around a lot, which applied to abial 73 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: Art as well. By the time he met Heloise, he'd 74 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: spent years studying and teaching Aristotelian philosophy and large logic 75 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: all over what is now France, and he had developed 76 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: his own philosophy of language, and along the way he 77 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: studied in Paris under William of Shampoo, who was another 78 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: prominent theologian and logician at the time, and it became 79 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: the first of many conflicts between Abialard and another public figure. 80 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: Allard really picked apart and debated William's teachings, and when 81 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: he Abillard was judged to be the winner, he was 82 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: quite boastful about it and unfortunately tried to shame and 83 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: embarrass William. Not the most noble behavior. Uh and this 84 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: simultaneously increased Abelard's reputation and it cost him some understandable 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: problems in the intellectual community. This was kind of his 86 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: standard way of relating to people. He had a similar 87 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: experience not long after with another teacher, and Salm of Leone, 88 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: who he'd sought out to learn from before later becoming 89 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 1: his arrival. After leaving Leon, Abillard went to Paris again 90 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: and became scholar and residence at Notre Dame. And that's 91 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: when Heloise. His uncle Fulbear sent Heloise to Abillard for tutoring. 92 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: Fullbear was a cannon, which is a type of clergyman, 93 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: so at this point in the story, Abillard would have 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: been about thirty eight years old. Heloise's age is kind 95 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: of subject to debate because we don't know exactly when 96 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: she was born. It's cited as anywhere between seventeen and 97 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: twenty five. And here's how Abelard dis gribed Heloise in 98 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: his Historia Calamitatum. Quote of no mean beauty, she stood 99 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: out above all by reason of her abundant knowledge of letters. 100 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: Now this virtue is rare among women, and for that 101 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: very reason it doubly graced the maiden and made her 102 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: the most worthy of renown in the entire kingdom. It 103 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: was this young girl whom I, after carefully considering all 104 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: those qualities which are wont to attract lovers, determined to 105 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: unite with myself in the bonds of love. And indeed 106 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: the thing seemed to me very easy to be done. Meanwhile, 107 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: he described himself as quote possessed of such advantages of 108 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: youth and comeliness, that no matter what woman I might 109 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: favor with my love, I dreaded rejection of none. Not 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: really uh short on confidence. So the pair started out 111 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: with a written courtship, and eventually they wanted to have 112 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: more face to face conversations with one another. So Abillard 113 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: convinced Heloise's uncle to offer him lodgings in his house, 114 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: which was also near the school where he taught, and 115 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: Filbert basically gave Albillard free reign over Heloise's education. He wrote, quote, 116 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: the man's simplicity was nothing short of astounding to me. 117 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: I should not have been more smitten with wonder if 118 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: he had entrusted a tender lamb to the care of 119 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: a ravenous wolf. So that to me sounds a little alarming, 120 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: but it's less romantic and more like, Yeah, he seems 121 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: a little creepy. But his description of their developing relationship 122 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: sounds a little bit less predatory because he says we 123 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: were united first in the dwelling that sheltered our love, 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: and then in the hearts that burned with it. Under 125 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: the pretext of study, we spent our hours and the 126 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: happiness of love. Heloise's point of view at the very 127 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: start of their relationship, really his was not documented. Some 128 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: scholars argue that she was a willing participant, but others 129 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: point out passages from letters in which Abelard says that 130 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: he was sort of cool, worse even demanding, but in 131 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: the end she insisted that she loved him passionately and completely, 132 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: and their time together became so consuming and so extensive 133 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: that Abelarde started to shirk his other duties, both of 134 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: her education and of the school where he was supposed 135 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: to be teaching, and Heloise's uncle seemed blind to all 136 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: of this. So even as people gossiped and dropped hints 137 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: to the to him that something was up with his 138 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: niece and her teacher, uh, he didn't seem to catch on, 139 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: and when he inevitably did wise up to it, after 140 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: several months, Heloise's uncle, as one would anticipate, separated them. 141 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: Abelard is quite poetic about this too. He says, each 142 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: grieved most not for himself, but for the other. Each 143 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: sought to allay not his own sufferings, but those of 144 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: the one he loved. The very sundering of our bodies 145 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: served but to link our souls closer together, the plenitude 146 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: of the love which was denied to us, and flamed 147 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: us more than ever. Sometime after her uncle found them out, 148 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: Helloise realized she was pregnant, and she told Abillard that 149 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: she was so. One night, while her uncle was away, 150 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: Abelard spirited her out of the house and sent her 151 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: to live with his sister in Brittany until the baby 152 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: was born. Hallowise Is uncle, no surprise, was outraged. Abillard 153 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: went to him and begged for forgiveness, insisting that he 154 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: and Heloise truly loved one another. He offered to marry 155 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: Heloise in secret, and Fulbert agreed, but neither one of 156 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: them really wanted to get married. They both sort of 157 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: looked at marriage as this morally weak way to get 158 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: away with having physical lust. Getting married would also have 159 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: been a huge blow to Abalard's reputation, and it would 160 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: have put a cap on how far he could advance 161 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: in the church, since the highest levels of the clergy 162 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: couldn't really marry, and since church was really the only 163 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: path for somebody who had Abelard's education at that point, 164 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: this was a problem. If he married her, he was 165 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: going to be stalling his career permanently, but he was 166 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: willing to do it because it seemed like the only 167 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: way to appease her uncle's fury. Abelard went back to 168 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: Brittany to retrieve Heloise and to marry her, but she 169 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: actually refused him. She said that the plan was too dangerous, 170 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: that she was not willing to sacrifice his potential in 171 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: his reputation, and that there was no way her uncle 172 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: was really going to forgive Abelard anyway just because he 173 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: married her. According to Avlard. After going on just at 174 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: length about how damaging marriage and children were to the 175 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: study of philosophy, Eloise said this, if layman and gentiles 176 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: bound by no profession of religion lived after this fashion, 177 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: what ought you a cleric and a cannon do, in 178 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: order not to prefer base voluptuousness to your sacred duties, 179 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: to prevent this charibdis from sucking you down headlong, and 180 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: to save yourself from being plunged shamelessly and irrevocably into 181 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: such filth as this not a favorite of the idea 182 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: of marriage at all? Yeah, what a pity. She went 183 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: on to say how much sweeter and romantic it would 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: be for her to be his mistress rather than his wife, 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: because love would be a stronger bond between them than 186 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: marriage could ever be. And in doing this, Heloise was 187 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: basically saying she would sacrifice herself entirely for Abialard's sake 188 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: to allow him to have her without standing in the 189 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: way of his life and career, while she would endure 190 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: basically all the consequences. Abillard could not be convinced, though, 191 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: and she finally gave up, saying, then there is no 192 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: more left but this that in our doom. The sorrow 193 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: yet to come shall be no less than the love 194 00:11:54,880 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: we two have already known, which is some foreshadowing. When 195 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: the baby was born, she named it Astrolabe, and they 196 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: left him with Abelard's sister and returned to Paris to 197 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: be married in secret. Very early one morning, in the 198 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: presence of Heloise's uncle and some of Abellard's friends, and Heloise, 199 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: being an intelligent woman, was definitely right about her uncle. 200 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: Even though their marriage was supposed to be a secret 201 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: Fulbeart told other people that they had gotten married, so 202 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: Heloise publicly insisted that her uncle was lying, which infuriated him, and, 203 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: fearing for her safety, Abillard sent her to the convent 204 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: where she had been educated when she was younger, a 205 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: place outside of Paris called Argentoya. They continued to see 206 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: one another. There's a passage in one of Heloise's letters 207 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: and which she talks about making love in a corner 208 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: of the convent itself. But Heloise's uncle interpreted her entry 209 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: into the convent as a ploy by Abillard to get 210 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: rid of her, so he bribed the servants in the 211 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: house where Abelard was staying so they could it access 212 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: to his rooms. And he sent his own servants to 213 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: break into Abelard's room in the middle of the night, 214 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: where they actually castrated him. So, according to Abelard, the 215 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: next morning there was an enormous crowd who came out. 216 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: It reads as though he's saying that they were mourning 217 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: the loss of his man parts. Probably it was, this 218 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: is the mark of the translation, that it was really 219 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: that people were extremely upset at the uh the physical 220 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: disfigurement he had undergone. And it's not so much just 221 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: the loss of physical sexual prowess. Right, So he says, 222 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: it is difficult, nay impossible, for words of mine to 223 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: describe the amazement which bewildered them, the lamentations they uttered, 224 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: the uproar with which they harassed me, or the grief 225 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: with which they increased my own suffering. He simultaneously bemoaned 226 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: his fate and saw it as a fitting punishment. So 227 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: that had removed from him the part of his body 228 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: with which he had sinned, Abillard retreated to the monastery 229 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: at San Denis. At first, this was more to hide 230 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: from what had happened to him than out of any 231 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: newfound religious devotion. He became a monk and Heloise who 232 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: at this point was already sheltering at a convent, took 233 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: vows and became a benedicting nun. While at Sandoni, Abillard 234 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: tried to continue with his life of study and teaching, 235 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: but to turn his attention to faith instead of philosophy. 236 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: But the monastery at Sandony was in Abalard's were words quote, 237 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: utterly worldly, and its abbot was corrupt. Ablard became popular 238 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: as a teacher, even as he criticized the monastery and 239 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: tried very hard to reform it. His constant and criticism 240 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: naturally drew the ire of the other teachers and monks 241 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: at the monastery, who all rallied against him and complained 242 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: about him to bishops, archbishops, and any other church official 243 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: who would listen. He also, while he was there, w 244 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: books that were deemed to be heretical, and his previous 245 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: feuds with other philosophical and religious thinkers, which we referenced 246 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the podcast, kind of came back 247 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: to haunt him. Abillard fled to Champagne and became a hermit. 248 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: Students of philosophy continued to seek him out to try 249 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: to get him to return to teaching, but he did 250 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: but He was constantly criticized and scrutinized for applying logic 251 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: to matters of faith, and that was a practice that 252 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: was viewed as very threatening to the medieval church. After 253 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: a while, he and his students created this community of 254 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: teaching and learning that they called La Perriclet. Eventually he 255 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: handed law Paraclete over to Heloise and the nuns from 256 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: the convent where she'd been staying because their convent had 257 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: been disbanded after some internal church feuding. She became the 258 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: abbess at La Perriclet, and Hallowe's became highly respected in 259 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: her own right at this point. Being an abbess required 260 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: skill in both administrative and religious work, and she drew 261 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: praise from Peter the Venerable and other prominent religious figures. 262 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: She was also fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and 263 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: she taught these languages to the other nuns as well. 264 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: Abel Iron continued to teach and to serve as an abbot, 265 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: although his skeptical manner of approaching religious thought continued to 266 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: draw fire. Eventually he wound up because of this, being 267 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: accused of heresy, and he was condemned at a council 268 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: at Fans in eleven forty, his sentence was lifted only 269 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: after Peter the Venerable intervened. Evelard's health started to really fail, 270 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: and he died in eleven forty two. Peter the Venerable 271 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: built a tomb for him and Saint Marcel, but Heloise 272 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: had him moved and reburied at La Periclete so that 273 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: she could watch over him. She lived another twenty years 274 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: before dying sometime in eleven sixty three or eleven sixty four. 275 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: La Periclet also became a highly respected convent under under 276 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: her leadership, with six daughter houses as well, and there's 277 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: a story that she was actually buried in Abalard's grave, 278 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: but there's no substantiation of that in the record. She 279 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: was buried next to him, and their burial place was 280 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: moved to a drier location in four In sixteen sixteen, 281 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: the letters that she and Abelard had exchanged between each 282 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: other were published for the first time, and in sixteen 283 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: twenty one the nuns at La peric Let moved their 284 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: bodies to a new and more impressive tomb to satisfy 285 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: curious visitors. They repeated this whole exhumation and reburial a 286 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: few more times in conjunction most of the time, with 287 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: new translations of the letters coming out and the sort 288 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: of influx of Abelard and Heloise letter tourists had to 289 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: constantly um upgrade the setting for the additional crowds. I 290 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: presume yes. In the early nineteenth century, Abelard and Heloise 291 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: were moved to the cemetery Peer Laches in Paris, where 292 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: they are today. They lie together in a stone sarcophagus 293 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: carved with both of their was umblence is and it's 294 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: under a roof supported by pillars and arches. The tomb 295 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: in peir l Ches was designed by Alexandra Marie Lenoir, 296 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: who was the director of the muse de monument Francaise 297 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: between seventeen ninety and eighteen sixteen. Lenoir actually obtained their 298 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: remains from La Paraclete in eighteen hundred and then created 299 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: this tomb that had sort of a faux medieval look 300 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: and feel, and he incorporated some pieces from what was 301 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: reported to be some of the earlier tombs that had 302 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: existed at La Peraclet. The tomb itself is more about 303 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: being evocative of their lives and their love story than 304 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: authentic to the art and architecture of the period in 305 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: which they lived. We believe that the real remains are 306 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: probably buried there because they were measured and authenticated when 307 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: Lenoir acquired them. So anytime bodies get moved that many 308 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: times there's always a question markup. Is that really who 309 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: we think it is? They were verified, especially since the 310 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: remains started out in its twelfth century. And now to 311 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: return to Abelard and Heloise, they both wrote extensively. Heloise's 312 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: writings primarily included letters to Abelard and to other religious figures, 313 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: and then Abelard's writings also include works on theology, metaphysics, logic, 314 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: the philosophy of language, and the philosophy of mind. He 315 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: also wrote poetry and songs, and some of these were 316 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: about Heloise. He never explicitly credited her, but modern scholars 317 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: contend that Heloise really was quite influential when it came 318 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: to Abelard's thoughts in the area of ethics. This is 319 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: a reversal of older scholarship, which claimed that Heloise's thoughts 320 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: were borrowed in their entirety from abial art. Yea has 321 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: to do with how focused she was on the idea 322 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: of hypocrisy and how the life you're living outward lea 323 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: should match up with the life that you're living inwardly, 324 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: which she herself was very distressed by that idea, given 325 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: the fact that she had got into a convent for 326 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: reasons other than a spiritual devotion. Ye. So they're in 327 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: addition to all this, they are the letters that Avalard 328 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: and Heloise wrote to each other after their relationship had ended. 329 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: The first one was to Abillard from Helloise after she 330 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: had read his Historia calumtatam. He wrote this about fifteen 331 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: years after their relationship had ended, and when Heloise got 332 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: it and read it, she was deeply distressed and very 333 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: worried by what she read there about his mental state 334 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: and how they had depicted their relationship, and like she 335 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: was also quite angry that in twelve years he had 336 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: not once expressed concern or gratitude for her joining the convent, 337 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: which she had not really wanted to do, and she 338 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: had done entirely as like a sacrifice for his sake. 339 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: Her personal letters are very passionate and very pained. She 340 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: wrote of how upset she is that, as we referenced 341 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: a moment ago, she took thous and because she loved Abillard, 342 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: not because she loved God. She also wrote of how 343 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: much she loved Ablard, saying things like my heart was 344 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: not in me but with you, And now even more, 345 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: if it is not with you, it is nowhere. Truly 346 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: without you, it cannot exist. She also wrote of her 347 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: sexual frustration, quote, even during the celebration of Mass, when 348 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: our prayers should be purer, lewed, visions of these pleasures 349 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: take such a hold upon my unhappy soul that my 350 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: thoughts are on their wantonness instead of on our prayers. 351 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: I should be groaning over the sins I have committed, 352 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: but I can only sigh for what I have lost. 353 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: At one point in her letters, she accused Abillard of 354 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: feeling only lust for her and not love, and in 355 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: a reply he agreed with her, that's not what you 356 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: want to hear back. Abillard's letters are reserved, they're a 357 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: bit luxury, and they're really lacking in romance. So some 358 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: people frame this as Abalard being rational while Helloise is emotional. 359 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: But a lot of Avalard's writing really is quite emotional too. 360 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: It's just that all of his emotion is directed toward 361 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: religious matters and his sort of personal torment uh and 362 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: what his life has become. While Helloise emotion is all 363 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: directed at Avalard, and they also exchanged letters of direction 364 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: about how to establish a rule for her community of nuns, 365 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: and they discussed matters of faith in scripture. So not 366 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: all of their correspondence was just I loved you, I 367 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: loved you, I loved you so much and you kind 368 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: of dropped the ball and him say. Most of the time, 369 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: when you find collections of them, they're they're divided into 370 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: like the more personal letters and the more spiritual letters 371 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: where they address questions about scriptures and how La peric 372 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: Let should operate and that kind of thing. There is 373 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: some debate about the authenticity of these letters. You know, 374 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: their relationship happened during the eleven eleven hundreds, but the 375 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: oldest copies of these letters are from the thirteen hundreds, 376 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: So naturally this has led to speculation about whether they 377 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: each really wrote everything that was attributed to them. And 378 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: the three schools of thought are that they're exactly what 379 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: they're said to be that and then there's another that 380 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: is that abial Ard in fact wrote all of the letters, 381 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: And then there's another that some other unrelated person wrote 382 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: them later on as a bit of medieval fanfic. Uh 383 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: the overall, but you know, definitely not a hundred percent 384 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: unanimous consensus is that they are what they say they are. 385 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: That their letters from Abillard to Helloween's and vice versa. 386 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: Because they are so old, you can read many of 387 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: them on the internet for free, should you be so inclined. Yes, 388 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Valentine's. They castration and we don't really or 389 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: at least I couldn't find what happened to baby aster Labe, 390 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: like we know this, Yeah, I don't remember ever hearing 391 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, baby aster Labe stayed in Brittany with 392 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: Abelard's sister, but otherwise, like, don't really have any sense 393 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, and it's interesting to me that they 394 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: have been uh buried many times together when it seems like, 395 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: at least from a romantic point of view, things had 396 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: kind of fizzled out. Yeah, well they're the time they 397 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: were both deceased. Yeah, they're they're I think they're there. 398 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: Romantic relationship with one another seems to have come to 399 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: a complete halt, uh from the time that he was castrated. 400 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: I think had he not been castrated, they probably would 401 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: have continued to have some kind of u secret relationship 402 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: with one another. But that then once that happened, it 403 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: wasn't just because he did not have the physical parts anymore, 404 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: but because that was such a hugely devastating experience for him. 405 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: He felt completely shamed by the whole thing. He had 406 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: sort of become this public figure who had been literally 407 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: disfigured because of this whole thing. Like he was like, no, 408 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: now I'm going to devote my whole life to this 409 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: other thing. I think allows though, continued to for the 410 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: rest of her life, even after their correspondent stopped being 411 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: about how much she missed him and how much she 412 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: loved him. I think she really cared that forever. It 413 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: certainly seems that way. Thank you so much for joining 414 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: us for this Saturday classic. Since this is out of 415 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: the archive, if you heard an email address or a 416 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: Facebook U r L or something similar during the course 417 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: of the show, that may be obsolete. Now, so here's 418 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: our current contact information. We are at History Podcast at 419 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com, and then we're at Missed 420 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: in the History. All over social media that is our 421 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: name on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest, and Instagram. Thanks again 422 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: for listening for more on this and thousands of other topics, 423 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: visit how stuff works dot com.