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Speaker 1: Music Saved Me. We're dealing with alchemy here. Alchemy is

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Speaker 1: an ancient form of magic, but it can be explained

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Speaker 1: in some ways. I would say maybe turning cole into

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Speaker 1: a diamond is alchemy. There is a thing that happens

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Speaker 1: in music and song that is hard to explain. Why

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Speaker 1: does a sad song make you feel happy? That is

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Speaker 1: taking darkness and turning it into light. That's alchemy.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is called Music Saved Me and on each

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Speaker 2: episode we'll look at a musician, will delve into their

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Speaker 2: story their deep connection to music, will talk with their

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Speaker 2: fans everyday, people with their own story to tell about

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Speaker 2: how music has saved them in challenging times. Today, we

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Speaker 2: have the privilege of talking with a remarkable artist and author.

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Speaker 2: Mary Goche is best known for her soul stirring songs

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Speaker 2: that have touched the hearts of so many. Not only

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Speaker 2: a talented singer songwriter, but also the author of the

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Speaker 2: captivating book Saved by a Song and how perfect for

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Speaker 2: her to join us today. In this episode, we'll explore

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Speaker 2: the incredible journey of this acclaimed musician, her profound connection

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Speaker 2: to songwriting, and the powerful tales of redemption and transformation

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Speaker 2: that have shaped her artistry. Mary, Welcome to Music Saved Me.

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Speaker 2: It's so great to have you here.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: In your book, Saved by a Song, you talk about

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Speaker 2: the profound impact that music has had on your life.

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Speaker 2: Can you share with us a specific moment when you

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Speaker 2: realized that music saved you?

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Speaker 1: Well, honestly, I think it's been more of a process

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Speaker 1: than an event. But there came a point as a

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Speaker 1: songwriter as I took it more and more seriously and

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Speaker 1: decided to really dedicate my life to it as a

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Speaker 1: as a person who came to it later in life.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't my first career, it's my It wasn't even

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Speaker 1: I didn't take it in as a career. Actually, it

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Speaker 1: was something I did on the side after I got

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Speaker 1: sober and I began to take it more and more seriously.

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Speaker 1: So it's my second career. And uh, I guess there

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Speaker 1: was a point a couple of records in where I realized,

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Speaker 1: my goodness, this is this is more than more than

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Speaker 1: what it looks like on the surface. For me, it

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Speaker 1: became purpose. It became a way of processing the world

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Speaker 1: in my life, became a way of connecting and building empathy,

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Speaker 1: building bridges. I'm all about bridges, not walls. I think

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Speaker 1: that my awareness of the power of song is continuing.

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Speaker 1: The magnitude of the power of song is amazing to

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Speaker 1: me what he can do. I was just at a

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Speaker 1: thing I'd never done before. It was a storytelling festival,

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Speaker 1: and somebody was wearing a shirt and said, the shortest

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Speaker 1: distance between two strangers is a story well told. Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I think as a songwriter, I would would certainly agree,

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Speaker 1: and I might say the shortest distance between two strangers

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Speaker 1: is a story song well told.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. You were just speaking of the power of music,

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Speaker 2: how tremendous it is. I have to ask you, it

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Speaker 2: sounds a little weird, but I don't think so. Do

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Speaker 2: you feel that music has supernatural healing powers?

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Speaker 1: Will yes. I would characterize it like this, we're dealing

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Speaker 1: with alchemy here. Alchemy is an ancient form of magic,

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Speaker 1: but it can be explained in some ways. I would say,

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Speaker 1: maybe turning coal into a diamond is alchemy. It can

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Speaker 1: be looked at scientifically. The pressure, the pressure of the

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Speaker 1: pressure of the pressure transforms coal into diamonds. There is

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Speaker 1: a thing that happens in music and song that's hard

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Speaker 1: to explain why does a sad song make you feel happy?

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Speaker 1: What is it that this art form brings that allows

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Speaker 1: some of the worst things that ever happened to a

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Speaker 1: songwriter to be sung and in that interaction or in

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Speaker 1: that action, turned into some than beautiful that other people

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Speaker 1: will thank us for singing. That is taking darkness and

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Speaker 1: turning it into light. That's alchemy. And if you want to

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Speaker 1: take it to another level of discussion and call it supernatural,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say no to it. It's transformative.

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Speaker 2: There's songs deal with deeply personal and emotional themes. How

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Speaker 2: do you navigate that? It's a fine line between sharing

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Speaker 2: your own personal experiences and also making your music and

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Speaker 2: songs relatable to a wide audience.

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Speaker 1: Good point. Here's what I teach, and here's what I understand.

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Speaker 1: The personal is pretty boring. It's just my little life,

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Speaker 1: my little diary, my little comings and goings and interactions

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Speaker 1: with people that went well or poorly. Nobody cares about

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Speaker 1: my personal I mean, I'm I mean, we care about

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Speaker 1: celebrities personal just as gawkers. But here's where I can

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Speaker 1: get people interested is if I go two or three

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Speaker 1: flights down from the personal and enter the deeply personal.

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Speaker 1: I think this is where we all meet. We all

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Speaker 1: meet at what it means to be human, and that

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Speaker 1: deeply personal reality is not something we talk about at

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Speaker 1: cocktail parties. Sometimes we never even talk about it with

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Speaker 1: our family. And the deeply personal is where we intersect

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Speaker 1: in this life. And I think great artists articulate that,

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Speaker 1: and people find each other there. That is what's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I always say to my students that songs are great

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Speaker 1: places to tell your secrets. Not personal secrets, not who

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Speaker 1: kiss who or who cheated on who, but what you

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Speaker 1: truly genuinely feel about what's transportediring in your life and

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Speaker 1: in the world, and your confusion and your alarm, and

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Speaker 1: your empathy and and and your your own day to

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Speaker 1: day experiences of life. In a way, it's where we

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Speaker 1: It's where we go in and take our guard down.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It requires vulnerability, it does and sharing with people, even

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Speaker 2: if it's not your specific story, it makes them feel

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Speaker 2: that they're not the only one that's it.

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Speaker 1: That's the job, the job. The job as a songwriter

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Speaker 1: is to get the listener to go Mary, play my

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Speaker 1: song and take ownership of the story because it is

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Speaker 1: their story. My one of my songwriting heroes and a

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Speaker 1: man I traveled with for a bit was a songwriter

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Speaker 1: from Texas named Guy Clark, and he used to say, Look,

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Speaker 1: we're all live in the same life. We just hit

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Speaker 1: the marks at different times, at different points. What it

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Speaker 1: means to be human is true for all humans. We

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Speaker 1: share the human condition.

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Speaker 2: So true. Many people, obviously, as we're talking about this,

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Speaker 2: turn to music during difficult times in their life. I

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Speaker 2: have everyone I know has at some point in time.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us I think you just did a

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Speaker 2: song or a particular artist that has been a saving

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Speaker 2: grace for you in your life.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, there's a hundred. Yeah, there's us at different

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Speaker 1: times in my life. There's so many. And you wouldn't expect,

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Speaker 1: like I would say, iggy pop and the Carpenters interesting,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect that from folks like me. There's a

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Speaker 1: time Green on red iggy pop, the violent films lou Reed.

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to that and holding on for dear life.

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Speaker 1: There's a time caring. Carpenter's vocals resonated so deeply. Something

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Speaker 1: in her voice I felt her. I think her tragedy

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Speaker 1: was in her voice, and it resonated her her strength

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Speaker 1: and and and her situation. Uh. She was a woman

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Speaker 1: trapped in a time that was very very hard to

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Speaker 1: be a woman, much less of a woman drummer. You know,

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Speaker 1: she she broke a lot of stereotypes. Uh. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I think that the pain was in her voice. It

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Speaker 1: resonated for me. So so I went through a lot

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Speaker 1: with the Carpenters and and those early early punk bands. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, the clash, the anger of some of the

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Speaker 1: iggy stuff in the early days. And I always always

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Speaker 1: always turned to John Prime as well, his his sense

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Speaker 1: of humor, his ability to see the light inside the darkness.

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Speaker 1: So many Leonard Cohen songs, Bob Dylan songs, Bruce Springsteen

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Speaker 1: really has been an important artist for me. And then

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Speaker 1: people in my own genre, you know, listen to William

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Speaker 1: Steve Earle, Emmy, Lou Harris. The younger ones that are

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Speaker 1: coming up now speak to me too, Tyler Childers, Stergel Simpson.

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Speaker 1: They're a lot younger than me, but they're really resonating.

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Speaker 1: The list is endless. It goes on and on and on,

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Speaker 1: and we hold on. I hold on to these songwriters

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Speaker 1: in their songs with dear life, sometimes for dear life sometimes.

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Speaker 2: And still to this day, you'll tap back into that

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Speaker 2: one needed for yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Toby Keith got a song I can't stop listening to,

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Speaker 1: Don't let the Old Man In.

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Speaker 2: That's the best. I love him, Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: As he battles stomach cancer and fights for his health

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Speaker 1: and his life. This is a saying that he he

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Speaker 1: picked up on that he wrote a song about. And

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Speaker 1: it's a Clint Eastwood like, hey man, you're ninety one

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Speaker 1: years old. How the hell do you still make movies?

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Speaker 1: And Clint said, I don't let the old man in.

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Speaker 1: And it's resonant for me. You know, I'm sixty one

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Speaker 1: years old. But sometimes the old man or the old

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Speaker 1: woman's comes knocking and you got to answer the door

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Speaker 1: and go, we're not doing this today. Yeah, that song

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm repeat, repeat, repeat, How old would you be

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Speaker 1: if you didn't know the day you were born? What

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Speaker 1: a line?

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Speaker 2: Power?

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Speaker 1: What a line? What a song? It's not just a song,

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Speaker 1: it's life instruction.

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Speaker 2: And one other little bit of advice is just taking

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Speaker 2: down all the mirrors in the house. Tell me Mary

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Speaker 2: describe songwriting. Why is it a therapeutic process?

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Speaker 1: I like that distinction. You know, a lot of folks say, well,

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Speaker 1: you're doing therapy, Like, no, I'm not doing therapy, not

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Speaker 1: with songwriting. I do therapy with my therapist. But songwriting

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Speaker 1: is therapeutic in that it helps process. There's a processing

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Speaker 1: that happens when I write a song that helps bring

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Speaker 1: some clarity, but it doesn't free me from having the

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Speaker 1: need for therapeutic help. And when I do have that need,

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Speaker 1: and I've had it for many, many, many years, I'll

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Speaker 1: speed die my therapist and get back in there. I

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Speaker 1: don't do it as often as I did, but she's

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Speaker 1: there and I know her number. But the process of

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Speaker 1: writing a song is trying, for me, trying to find clarity.

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Speaker 1: And I think maybe that's what therapy is as well,

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Speaker 1: is looking for clarity for persanity and reality and making

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Speaker 1: decisions based on solid perception. You know. It's the misperception

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Speaker 1: of the world and the misperception of what's happening that

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Speaker 1: creates dysfunction and sometimes mental illness. And so the clarifying

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Speaker 1: process of songwriting for me is very about therapeutic. Now,

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Speaker 1: not everybody writes that way, and they don't see this

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Speaker 1: art form as a way of doing that. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's so many different approaches, and everybody's welcome and you

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Speaker 1: can do it your own way. I'm not endorsing or

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Speaker 1: saying this is how it should be done. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying this is how I do it.

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Speaker 2: Your song Mercy Now is resonated with countless listeners. Tell

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Speaker 2: us about the inspiration behind the powerful song and why

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Speaker 2: you think it is connected with so many people on

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Speaker 2: such a deep level.

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Speaker 1: You know that continues to amaze me. A song that

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Speaker 1: I wrote in two thousand and two. People come up

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Speaker 1: to me every night when I'll play with tears in

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Speaker 1: their eyes and say that song, that song, it keeps

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Speaker 1: reinventing itself. That song, it keeps reactivating itself. I wrote

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Speaker 1: it in such a way that it didn't intrinsically get

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Speaker 1: caught in political events of the year two thousand and two.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a good example of getting past the

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Speaker 1: personal into the deeply personal so that it doesn't It

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Speaker 1: didn't attach it to itself to the specific going ons

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Speaker 1: of that time, But what inspired it was was the

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Speaker 1: specific going ons of that time. I knew enough about

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Speaker 1: songwriting at that point to know that I wanted this

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Speaker 1: to be a bigger song than what was what it

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Speaker 1: would be if I said exactly what I was referencing.

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Speaker 1: It was inspired by the US response to nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: It was inspired by the Spotlight Report reports on the

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Speaker 1: rampant child sexual abuse in the parishes of Boston, the

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Speaker 1: horrific number of priests in handcuffs being arrested for child abuse.

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Speaker 1: I lived in Boston at that time. It was mortifying.

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Speaker 1: At the time, the current dictator of North Korea's father

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Speaker 1: was testing nuclear weapons. It was inspired by that, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't reference that. That was what was happening if

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Speaker 1: you opened the newspaper. But what I tried to write about,

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Speaker 1: and I think I successfully did, was what was going

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Speaker 1: on inside of me as a response to that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just to let you know, I'm from Boston as well,

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Speaker 2: and I was there during that time. So that was

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Speaker 2: amazing music and song and just a wonderful thing to

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Speaker 2: put out there in terms of being able to help

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Speaker 2: people figure out how to deal with all of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's just it was out of It was an unbelievable time.

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Speaker 1: It was an unbelievable time. And what I was doing

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know I was doing, and it was

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Speaker 1: trying to help me deal with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but don't they always say a lot of times,

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Speaker 2: when you try to figure stuff out for yourself, you

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Speaker 2: don't even realize that it's going to resonate with so

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Speaker 2: many people, Which leads me to my next question. You

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Speaker 2: had mentioned about mercy now and people still come to

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Speaker 2: you and with tears in their eyes. It has such

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Speaker 2: a unique ability music to bring people together. How does

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Speaker 2: it make you feel when you see that impact on

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Speaker 2: your audience while you're performing, or even after when they

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Speaker 2: come to you after. How does that make you feel?

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Speaker 1: I feel grateful. I feel deeply connected to purpose. I

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Speaker 1: feel as though I'm one of the lucky ones that

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Speaker 1: figured out. It took a while. I didn't figure it

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Speaker 1: out first first off, right out of the shoot, but

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Speaker 1: I figured out what to do with my life that

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Speaker 1: I was put here to do, and I'm doing it.

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Speaker 1: And it's a real gift to know what to do

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Speaker 1: with your life and how to do it and then

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Speaker 1: to do it. That really makes me feel, I guess grateful. Overall.

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Speaker 1: The over arching experience of my songs resonating with listeners

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Speaker 1: in me is gratitude, because it took a lot of

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Speaker 1: courage to walk away from my restaurants at forty years

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Speaker 1: old and become a songwriter. It took a lot of

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Speaker 1: courage for me to say, you know what, I did that,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm going to do this and it may

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Speaker 1: or may not work, but I'm going to try, and

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Speaker 1: I've got to try. I don't want to be on

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Speaker 1: my deathbed going I wish I'd tried. So I gave

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Speaker 1: it my all, and somehow I crossed the threshold somewhere

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Speaker 1: over the first you know, four or five six records

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Speaker 1: that gave me this sense that I get to do

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Speaker 1: this as long as I want to, that they're not

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Speaker 1: going to take it away from me. That it's working.

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Speaker 1: And the goal was not to be a star, but

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Speaker 1: the goal is to be able to support and sustain

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Speaker 1: myself by writing songs, and that has worked out to

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Speaker 1: be true. I manifested that and I don't need more.

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Speaker 1: I have enough. I'm grateful for that too. I'm not

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Speaker 1: always grabbing for more. I'm really really happy with where

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Speaker 1: it's taken me and what I do well.

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Speaker 2: We are so happy for you and grateful that you

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Speaker 2: joined us today to share your story about music and

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Speaker 2: how it's impacted your life, and thank you for your

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Speaker 2: selflessness of sharing your music with the world and helping

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Speaker 2: them during their time as well. You don't mention it enough,

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Speaker 2: but you do make a big difference for a lot

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Speaker 2: of people, and you're very humble about it. And thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for coming on. Music saved me, Mary,

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Speaker 2: and good luck with everything you're doing in the future,

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Speaker 2: and I hope our paths cross again.

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Speaker 1: Hi, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Musicians on Call is a charity that is perfectly aligned

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Speaker 2: with the mission of this podcast, delivering the healing power

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Speaker 2: of music since nineteen ninety nine. Why not become a

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Speaker 2: volunteer or a supporter by going to musicianson Call dot org.