1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hey, March is tripod month, my friend, and you know 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: what that means. Yes, that means it's time to let 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: people know about your favorite podcasts, just to share the 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: sheer joy of podcast listening. That's right, it's t r 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: y pod still in nascent industry. A lot of people 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: don't know what podcasts are and helps everybody out if 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: you would go out and just say, hey, family member, 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: who I see it? Thanksgiving once a year? Right, you 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: should try out this thing called a podcast. Here's what 10 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: they are, here's a cool show you should try, and 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: here's how to get it. Yeah, and it doesn't have 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: to be our show, just any podcast you like in 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: general that you think someone else would like to share it. Yeah, 14 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: So get on board the dry pod train. Welcome to 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: stuff you should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey, 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Rowland. She goes she just ran 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: away after nine years. I knew that would happen eventually. Yep. 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: She had a little bendel sack over her shoulder and 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: she's barefoot, which is dangerous. Jerry, that was a nice 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: little set up. Yeah, you might get uh, what do 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: you call it? The do itch? Yeah? Or well that's 23 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: the best one, the ground itch do, which is way 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: better than ground get a little discomfort in the webbing 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: between your toes, a little scratchy. Maybe a few days 26 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: later you're like, this is this athlete's foot. No, that 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: doesn't make you cough. Yeah, Plus you're no athlete. Don't 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: flatter yourself, that's what they would say. And then you 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: start coughing a little bit, and a few weeks after that, 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: you're just a big dope that can't lift an arm 31 00:01:53,560 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: to go stand up and do anything. You have hookworm? Yeah, uh, 32 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: well there you have it. Were you told as a child, 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: like you'll get worms? And you're gonna ask me that 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: because I grew up in the South, Well, no, I 35 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: mean I was told that too. I don't remember hearing 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: this stuff. I remember being scared about uh, scoliosis, and 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: I remember being scared about nuclear annihilation and so as 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: I um, and that's about it. Razors and apples at Halloween, yeah, 39 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: which is, as we've covered, not true. Any instance that 40 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: happened to that happened because of the urban legend. Not Uh. No, 41 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: I've never really heard of this, and what made you 42 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: think of this? By the way, I don't know you 43 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: like the parasites. I love parasites. They're interesting, especially this 44 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: particular parasite, because it turns out the hookworm might be 45 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: the most interesting of all of the parasitic war here 46 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: on planet Earth if you ask me, Well, agreed, because, 47 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: as you will see, the social context and the Southern 48 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: United States of what the hookworm meant over centuries never 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: knew about it. And it's pretty astounding. And as someone 50 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: who has long had to defend the South as not 51 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: just a backward place with a bunch of dumb yokels, 52 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna from now on, I'm just gonna say, hookworm. 53 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: Look it up. Listen to our episode, and people right 54 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: now are going, what in the world, So let's well, 55 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: let's get into it. Let's remove their the fog of 56 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: curiosity and maybe irritation a little bit and start talking 57 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: about hookworms. Right, so we said you it starts with 58 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: your foot. Yeah, these are round worms. Yes, they're a 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: type of round worm, a nematode, right, yeah, Nematode phyl 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: um um. They're pretty young, about four million years old, 61 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: and uh, they have been described in this article you 62 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: sent most commonly as a as far as the way 63 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: they look as a tube within a tube like a 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: pair of socks. And then at one end, right at 65 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: one end, they have cutting plates also called fangs or teeth. Mouthparts, yeah, mouthparts, 66 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: and as Tracy Wilson would put it, and um, they 67 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: use those things for sucking blood. So that they want 68 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: is your blood because they get nutrients from your blood 69 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: and that makes them parasites. Yeah, and they as as 70 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: we sourced a few really great articles on this, but um, 71 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: as one of them points out to that a good 72 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: parasite or a good hookworm doesn't want to kill you because, 73 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: as it says in this article, that means the ride 74 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: is over right exactly. They want to keep you alive 75 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: and lazy so they can just keep reproducing and keep 76 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: sucking on your blood forever and ever and ever. And 77 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: in a very large part, hookworms have covald with humans, 78 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: and they've done so in a way that they get 79 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: the maximum benefit out of infecting a human um without 80 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: the pitfall of killing the human and ending the ride 81 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: for themselves. Right. So um, and they've had four hundred 82 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: million years to do it, and there's two kinds of hookworms. Mainly, 83 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: there's tons of hookworms, Like from what I understand, just 84 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: about every animal, every mammal has its own type of hookworm, 85 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: but they don't infect cross animal typically, And there's two 86 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: types of hookworms that infects humans specifically. There's the new 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: world hookworm naricatur Americana is very open minded, and then 88 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: there's the old word world hookworm uh and Solostoma duoden 89 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: all a right, and so both of them thrive in warmer, 90 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: tropical ish climates. And the an AMERICANUS in particular loves 91 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: sandy loami soil, and it just so happens that in 92 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: the American South has just the kind of climate to 93 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: host an American it's and it's around. Yeah, so here's 94 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: what happens. We were kind of kidding around about Jerry 95 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: walking around barefoot, but Jerry's old like me, and she 96 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: grew up in the South. We were all we all 97 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: come from sharecroppers and UH had outhouses. So here's what 98 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: would happen um all the way up until like which 99 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: is kind of distressing. Yeah, I thought so too. You 100 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: could walk around barefoot as uh Southern children were wanted 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, Apparently the chances of your of being 102 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: a kid with shoes, especially in the rural south, was 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: like next to nothing up until that, maybe the fifties 104 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: or sixties. Really yeah, uh so they would, like we 105 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: talked about the do uh the do it. You would 106 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: walk around barefoot. These little guys would get between your toes, uh, 107 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: root into your body through the feet, make their way 108 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: to the blood vessels and start the voyage to the lungs. 109 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: This is it's a fantastic voyage. Well for them, it is. 110 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: Um it's like inner space, yeah, um, up through the lungs, 111 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: finally through the circulatory system to the lungs where eventually, 112 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: like you said, you then you cough it up with 113 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: a dry cough, and then you swallow it into your 114 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: gut and the intestine and that's when it's like, this 115 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: is where I wanted to be all along. And the 116 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: nuts they go up through the foot circulatory system to 117 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: the lungs, make you cough, then you swallow them, and 118 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: then they finally get to the place where they're supposed 119 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: to be, the small intestine, and they latch on and 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: they start second blood. Yeah. And hookworms are interesting tape 121 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: worms or hermaphroditic. But hookworms like a lot of around worms. Uh, 122 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: they need to do it. Yeah, it's about to say 123 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: they like to who knows, maybe a little bit both, 124 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: depending on the mood. They have to in order to reproduce. 125 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: So what you do is they get into that intestine, 126 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: they find a lover, they take a lover. Excuse me, 127 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: Robert lamb in here, they take a lover, and then 128 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: they attach theirselves to the intestinal wall and say, I'm 129 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: here forever, I'm gonna I mean up to I've seen 130 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: up to thirty thousand eggs a day. Right, the female 131 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: will will lay thirty thousand fertilized eggs a day. Right, 132 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: And that's on the highest end. But you know, let's 133 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: say the low end is ten thousand, and say the 134 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: low end is a thousand. It's still a lot of eggs. 135 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: And that's just one female worm. Right. You can have 136 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: dozens hundreds of these things. They found that, Um, the 137 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: human can host up to about five hundred worms and survive. 138 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: You're not living a very fulfilling life, as we'll see, 139 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: but um, you you could have a number of these 140 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: worms all pumping out eggs, and the worm typically lives 141 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: between one and five years in the comforts of your gut, 142 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: and then um, you can also be reinfected. And here's 143 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: how right, So, when the females are spreading out a 144 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: thousand to thirty thousand eggs take your pick on a 145 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: daily basis, you're pooping those eggs out. And if you're 146 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: pooping and say like uh, like by the bushes or 147 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: in some sort of like outhouse, Yeah, it's eighteen seventy 148 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: five in West Virginia. You don't have indoor plumbing, right, 149 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: and let's say your outhouse isn't all that great, or 150 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: you're just again pooping in the bushes. You are probably 151 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: not wearing shoes. Those two things usually go hand in hand. 152 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: And so you're stepping in your old fecal material that's 153 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: still had eggs in it before those eggs have since 154 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: hatched into larva. Larva gone through the first two larval stages, 155 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: entered the third infective larval stage, and now it's crawling 156 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: up into your foot again and you're what's called worm 157 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: burden is expanded even further from one or two to 158 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: ten to twenty two up to hundreds. Yeah, and that's 159 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: if you just accidentally step in old pooh, whether it's 160 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: like spread around by animals walking around or by the rain. Um, 161 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: the chances of are exponentially more if you have a 162 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: good old fashioned poop slanging fight, sure do you You 163 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: know you don't want to get hit in the mouth 164 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: with that. God. Um. The other problem that um, well, 165 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: it was part of the problem was that, uh, that 166 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: was the second version of that even was that people 167 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: were using poop as fertilizer. Now it's one thing again 168 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: you can't really catch I'm sure you can catch some worms. 169 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: I know trick nosis is a problem for humans and 170 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: that's a pork worm. Um. But you you using say, 171 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: horse manure is real satively safe compared to using human 172 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: manure as fertilizer in your field. That's a relatively recent discovery. 173 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: People were using human manure as fertilizer for very a 174 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: very very long time. And it was called night soil 175 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: because at night the guys would come out and clean 176 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: your your privy out and walk them muck your poop, 177 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: your FeCO material down the street and collect more and 178 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: collect more, and then they would turn it into fertilizer. 179 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: Would say release the night soil before they dumped it 180 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: exactly and it would be fertilizer, and that'd be great 181 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: to make a crops grow, but it also just contaminate 182 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: your entire field with hookworms. And then little kids would 183 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: go out and work the field shoeless and they would 184 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: become infected from that too. So there were all these 185 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: really great opportunities for people to become infected by hookworms. 186 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: But there the hookworm habitat followed a certain a certain 187 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: line from about West Virginia down to I think East Texas. Uh. 188 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: And beneath that line that was the hookworm belt. Yeah, 189 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: they called it that, and above it they used human 190 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: manure for fertilizer too, but they didn't have hookworm. It 191 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: was in the South that the hookworm was a problem, 192 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: and it was a big problem, it turned out. Yeah, 193 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: it just occurred to me. We walked right past maybe 194 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: the best band name of all time in here, what 195 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: worm burden? Oh yeah, Wormburdon is pretty good. Um. All right, 196 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: well that's the the setup, uh, before we hit you 197 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: with a social context. So let's take a little break 198 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: here and we'll talk a little bit more about my 199 00:12:41,880 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: old kin folk right after this. All right, So before 200 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: we broke, we talked about what the hookworm is and 201 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: all the different, uh myriad ways which it could spread, 202 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: from accidentally walking in poop to poop slanging fights. Night 203 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: Soil Nights released the night soil rolling in it to 204 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: ultimate radically increase your worm burden. Um. So you found 205 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: this great article called how a Worm Gave the South 206 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: a Bad Name by a woman named Rachel Newer. Um. 207 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: It's on Nova. Yeah, it was really good. And she 208 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: is from the South and kind of wrote it from 209 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: that point of view. Um, and I get the feeling, like, 210 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: like me, she kind of his long head to defend 211 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: the American South as hey, we're not a bunch of dumb, 212 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: lazy yokels. Because that was you know, for a long time. Um, 213 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: and still continuing today to a certain degree. Yeah, that 214 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: notion kind of this that if you're from the South, 215 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: you're kind of slow, you may be a little dim witted, 216 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: you may be lazy. And this was you know, for 217 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: white folks, Black folks, Native Americans, just something about the 218 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: South made you lazy and dumb, especially among the lower 219 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: socioeconomic classes. And this wasn't just like off the cuff 220 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: um stereotyping. It was rooted in fact, in reality, there 221 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: was something different about people of a of the lower 222 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: socioeconomic classes in the South. Specifically, if you put them 223 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: side by side among the same socioeconomic classes of the North, 224 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: the ones in the North would be like, let's shovel 225 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: some cold baby, and the ones in the South would 226 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: be like, I'm just gonna lay here down next to 227 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: my wheelbarrow because I can't I can't get up. And 228 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: so Southerners were came to be seen as lazy, shiftless, 229 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: couldn't be trusted to do an honest day's work, and 230 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: they just thought it was part of the Southern character. Yeah, 231 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: and this wasn't just um a perception like they literally 232 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: lagged behind the North in terms of productivity, um economic development. Uh. 233 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: And we'll you know, we'll talk about some of these 234 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: statistics as we go. Well. Plus the Civil War didn't 235 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: help anything either. Well, now, that was obviously a big setback, 236 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: right So, and it would have been for any region 237 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: right at level of devastation and um um death. But 238 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: coupled with their already predisposition to this, that what what 239 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: came to be called the lazy germ uh it was, 240 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: it just set it back even further. Yeah, and at 241 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: one point in the American South up to fort Amazingly, 242 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: the population, like you said, from southeastern Texas to West 243 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Virginia and all the way down, um was infected with hookworm. Yes, 244 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: that's a lot of people. I mean, it's obviously not 245 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: a majority, almost a majority. That would have would have 246 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: been a tomb Southerner. I mean, that's a lot of folks. 247 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: It is a lot of folks. And that was the 248 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: culprit behind this lazy shiftlessness among the poverty stricken Southern 249 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: poor and the rural. The poverty stricken, rural Southern poor 250 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: was apparently the majority of the South from the end 251 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: of the Civil War up until the I believe the 252 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: mid nineties or mid twentieth century. Um you were if 253 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: you were a Southerner, it was likely that you were 254 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: poor and did not live in the city until about 255 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: the forties. And there's a pretty clear demarcation line if 256 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: you did if you were wealthy in the South, or 257 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: you were lived in the city in the South in 258 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: the nineteenth and early twentieth century, you wore shoes, you 259 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: had bed pans um, and you could probably avoid this. 260 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: But if you didn't like those are It says in 261 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: this article that it was almost impossible to avoid if 262 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: you were poor and lived in the South, because you 263 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: also didn't have very good sanitation. No, you were just 264 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: it was just perfectly set up for you to keep 265 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: getting reinfected. Um. You know, every couple of years you 266 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: shed a dead hookworm, but in that time you probably 267 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: would have taken on several more. All right, so what 268 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: does this mean If you get hookworm, Like we said, 269 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: it's it's likely not going to directly kill you. Uh, 270 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: you might die from a common cold. Um, you might 271 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: die from malaria or typhoid fever, or you know, something 272 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: else may ultimately take you out because your body is 273 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: so weakened. But what it does in large part is 274 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: it causes an iron deficiency. Uh. If you're a pregnant 275 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: woman or a kid, iron deficiency is really bad. Um. 276 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: If you're a child, you need that iron for your 277 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: brain development. So you know, not only would you get 278 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: like physical sin terms like stomach bloat. Uh what what 279 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: was the uh the I thing like this the dull, 280 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: fishy stair fishy i'd stare. Yeah, just sort of like 281 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: they're basically described, these kids just sort of vacant, just 282 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: staring off into space. Um, so you know, some of 283 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: those are physical symptoms, but others were literally like a 284 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: lower i Q. Right, And so they believed that an 285 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: AMERICANUS came over as a result of the Atlantic slave trade, 286 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: that it was imported from Africa. So for centuries generations 287 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: of kids, um we're being born in the South who 288 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: had there, Um, they were physically and developmentally stunted. Yeah, 289 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: by hookworm infections. Yeah, it's sometimes girls wouldn't begin menstruation, 290 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: boys a lot of times would not even hit their 291 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: growth spurts. And not only where they had lower i 292 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: q s and learning uh you know, development disability ease, 293 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: but they were smaller and weaker. Yeah, and then you 294 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: combine this loss of blood. So so apparently about a 295 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: hundred worms in a in a normal adult will drink 296 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: about a teaspoon a day, which doesn't sound like that much, 297 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: but if you couple it that level of iron deficiency 298 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: with uh pre existing malnourishment due to poverty or the 299 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: lack of availability of like good food, Uh, then it 300 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: really becomes a huge problem. And it goes from like 301 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: this is a problem to this is this is a 302 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: catastrophic problem that can keep an entire region of a 303 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: country down projectivity productively. Yeah, and it uh like a 304 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: lot of disease we've talked about, whether it's like famine 305 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: or lack of clean water. It's it's cyclical in nature. 306 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: So it would occur where there was poverty, and then 307 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: it would keep people from working to work their way 308 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: out of poverty, and it just kind of compounded on 309 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: each other. Right, and then think about slavery as well. Right, 310 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: So not only have you been brought over to the 311 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: US as a slave, you're being forced to work against 312 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: your will in these horrific conditions. You're also being forced 313 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: to work and live in the same conditions that promotes hookworm. 314 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: So you're feeling lazy and shiftless. Ts for you you're 315 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: a slave. Add that to your toil and misery, you know, 316 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 1: like it just it just keeps getting worse. All right. 317 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: So I think we've made it clear, big problem in 318 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: the South, But again, no one had any idea why. Yeah, 319 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: it was just you know, the lazy South, and it's 320 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, people have said that it literally set the 321 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: South back like decades and decades from the rest of 322 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: the country. No one knows what's going on. Until nineteen 323 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: o two, this dude came along and they should be 324 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: kind of a weird movie to market, but this would 325 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: be a good movie, I think. Oh, I think that's 326 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: the story of Charles Styles and Hookworm. It's a big 327 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: roller coaster ride, all right. So, uh, nineteen o two, 328 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: this guy named Charles Styles comes along. He's a zoologist 329 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: from from New York City, educated in Europe, no less. 330 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: So he played real well in the South, yeah, which, 331 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: as you'll see, it was a bit of part of 332 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: the problem. Uh. And the Department of Agriculture said, hey, 333 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: we need you to help these farmers down there keep 334 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: their animals healthy. So go down there and check things out. 335 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: And he was like he started to notice. He's like, 336 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 1: something's going on. These people are physically stunted. They're a 337 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: little off. Yeah, they're mentally stunted. And I don't think 338 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: they're just dumb and lazy. So he started apparently he 339 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: sounds like one of these guys that was just had 340 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of it something, you know, 341 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: Like he wouldn't just say, you know, oh, well everyone's 342 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: right about how it is down here. So he really 343 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: stuck to his instinct and realized that it was hookworm. 344 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: He literally was the guy who discovered that that was 345 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: the problem exactly. I think he um he did that 346 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: by analyzing stool samples. So he basically just hung around 347 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: men's rooms. He said, like, you're going to use that, 348 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: and they'd say, no, have at it. He just exactly, 349 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: and the people would just walk away. All right. It 350 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: went down. I don't know how it went down. I looked, Actually, 351 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: this guy is not the most celebrated person to ever 352 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: save an entire region from an infection. Um So, there's 353 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: not I didn't find a lot of background information on 354 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: him in particular. Um So, I have no idea how 355 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: it happened. I saw somewhere that said that he became 356 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: accidentally infected, and that's how he understood. Didn't see it 357 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: backed up anywhere else. I have no idea how this 358 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: man came to say, because again, you gotta you have 359 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: to be trading in fecal material here. So like this 360 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: guy had his hands on human poop at some point 361 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: or thought to look there. I'm not sure. Maybe he 362 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: was in a good old fashioned poops. It makes the 363 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: most sense that he he was. He's like, something's going 364 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: on to god, oh it's a worm. Uh. The point is, 365 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: though he was not well received. The local doctors didn't 366 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: want to hear it. They wouldn't listen. They dismissed him 367 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: as you know, this this carpet bag and yankee from Europe, 368 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: who you know, educated in Europe, who's down here telling us, 369 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's an animal expert, and he's telling 370 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: us about our poop, making us lazy europe animal expert. Yeah, 371 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: they they really didn't listen to him much. So he 372 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: was like, fine, I'll just go to John de rock 373 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: Feller and tell him. I'm gonna tell on you. That's 374 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: basically what happened. Yeah, Rockefeller was this is at the 375 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: time when income inequality was about at the levels it 376 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: was now, and the wealthy industrialists of the age were 377 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: really really worried that they were going to have the 378 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: social order overthrown by angry people, so they invented philanthropy. Right. Yeah, 379 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: this is back when they worried about that kind of thing, right, 380 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: And Rockefeller said, well, we can't just we can't do 381 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: anything to actually support the problems that capitalism creates, because 382 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: then we'll just be drawing attention to the fact that 383 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: there are major problems with capitalist system. What else can 384 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: I support, and he heard about Styles, and Styles took 385 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: a meeting with Rockefeller and some of his his uh 386 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: higher up friends, and apparently at that meeting they closed 387 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: the deal, like we're funding this thing with the million 388 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: bucks right out of the gate, which is about twenty 389 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: six million today. And they set up the Rockefeller Sanitary 390 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: Commission for the Eradication of hookworm disease. That's right. But um, 391 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: despite the fact that they were trying to help Southerners, um, 392 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: not only with a medical issue, but to advance themselves 393 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: as a people. Um. Again, the Southerners A they didn't 394 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: want a light being shown on this problem because it's gross, 395 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: uh and it has a stigma. But they didn't want 396 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: um again. They didn't want these Yankees coming down there 397 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: and saying they can fix you, right, you know. And 398 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: Rockefeller said t s he said, I've got an oyster 399 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: dish named after me, maybe the best oyster dish besides raw. 400 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. Uh. Should we take a break, Yeah, 401 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: all right, We're gonna come back and talk a little 402 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: bit about the road to eradication right after this. What 403 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: I mean, your body don't do what I mean, your 404 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: body don't do you and We're back and Chuck, we 405 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: had a not just a jingle that was a real 406 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: blues song. Yeah, people are like, man, somebody really made 407 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: an authentic old blue sounding jingle just for this episode. No, 408 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: that was the legendary Blind Blake with his song Hookworm Blues, 409 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: which was a real song about the hookworm blues. Right. 410 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: And I think blind Blake came up with that song 411 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: in ninety six, I believe. And the fact that he 412 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: is singing about hookworms um starting in the nineteen twenties 413 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: represents It just goes to show like how much progress 414 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: was made between the time the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission was 415 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: set up and Blind Blake had his number one hit, 416 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: his number one and in between that time for for 417 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: promoting this idea that there was such thing as hookworm 418 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: and that it was a real problem. Because when the 419 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Sanitary Commission was set up in nineteen o nine, 420 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: the South was still and basically the grips of reconstruction. 421 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: It wasn't the reconstruction era anymore is the Jim Crow South, 422 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: but it was still really far behind as a result 423 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: of the war, and there were not a lot of 424 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: public services available. So one thing the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission 425 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: had going for it was money and then it was 426 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 1: going to be money invested in public health. All right, 427 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: So this is how they went about it. Uh it's 428 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: nineteen o nine. And like you said, they Rockefeller donated 429 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: a million bucks, which is how much today? It's pretty good. Um, 430 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: And they realized, well, I don't assume this was kind 431 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: of a purposeful move, um that they got a Southerner 432 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: on board to kind of lead the charge. Definitely. Um, 433 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: this person named Wickliffe Rose, great name. If there's a 434 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: hero of the story, it's him. If you asked me, 435 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: you think so not? What's his face? No? Styles? Yeah, alright, 436 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: I mean he did some great work. It was good, 437 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: But Whitecliffe Rose was the one who uh Whitecliffe. That's 438 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: how I've pronounced that he was the one who made 439 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 1: it happen, because because Styles could have discovered hookworm all 440 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: day long, but if he didn't have the personality to 441 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: to write cure people, then that doesn't really help. So 442 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: this would be Matthew McConaughey then in the movie. Yeah so, 443 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: and and the s would be Paul Giamatti. And this 444 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: is McConaughey coming in now. Uh So they get this 445 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: Southerner east from Nashville on board to run the organization. 446 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: And they had this approach where they would go to 447 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: a town that they would go to a town in 448 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: the South with these doctors. But before they did that, 449 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: they would start this UM campaign, like an awareness campaign 450 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: UM and schools to get and as I think we 451 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: talked about in other things, you get the kids on 452 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: board in schools, and they kind of helped get the 453 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: parents on board, and they started this campaign to tell 454 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: children about what's going on, and the kids would in 455 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: turn hopefully go home and tell their parents like, you know, 456 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: my pa, I ain't dumb, I got the hookworm. Look 457 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: my poop is wiggling away exactly, and um it was. 458 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: You know, they had a challenge in front of him because, um, 459 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, you gotta poop in a bag or something 460 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: and give it to your teacher. Your teacher and entire schools, 461 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: these one room schoolhouses were infected. And this this one 462 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: kid they talked to later on said, uh, well he 463 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: was at the time. Well yeah, he was scared. Like 464 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: he said, he had constipation for a week. He didn't 465 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: want to like you didn't want to have hookworm. I 466 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: don't want my teacher to know me in this way. Yeah, 467 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: pretty much, sap um way. Never mind. But that was 468 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: but that was the whole setup, right yeah. I mean 469 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: like there was there was There was a public information 470 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: campaign that was part of it. There was community involvement. 471 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: That was a really big thing. That why Cliff Rose started. 472 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: He said, we can't do this without the support of 473 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: the local community. So they built networks with like doctors 474 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: and local health boards. They got the schools involved, um, 475 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: and it became a community thing, right. Yeah. So once 476 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: you had the public on board, they would set up 477 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: these clinics, um not permanent, these kind of temporary clinics, 478 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: and they would It was kind of a big deal 479 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: in the town. It said that they have a treat 480 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: it like an event, and people would bring picnics. I 481 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: don't know that's a wise thing to do at a 482 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: hookworm clinic, but they would bring picnics. And it says 483 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: in here that they some people even wanted to get 484 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: married in the hookworm tent, and I was like, that 485 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: seems weird and kind of like kitchy. But then I 486 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: also was like, I'll bet a lot of these people 487 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: have never seen the tent before, so they were like, yeah, yeah, 488 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: can we get married in the hookworm tent? And so, um, 489 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: there'd be this public information campaign leading up to the 490 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: day of the hookworm Day you can just call it. 491 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: And right, young a young doctor would ride into town 492 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: on horseback and he had a microscope and everything he 493 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: would Um, there was a couple of parts to it. 494 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: There was, um, the sanitation lecture, which was, here's how 495 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: you guys are getting cookworm. Here's how you build what's 496 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: called the sanitary privy. Yeah, like they couldn't give him 497 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: indoor plumbing, but they could at least teach them how 498 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: to have a nice enough out house, right. And there's 499 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: some very very simple principle. One is like don't don't 500 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: dig your latrine down until you hit groundwater, don't let 501 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: it go out into the stream, make sure animals can't 502 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: get into it, and like spread it around, make sure 503 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: your feet aren't standing in the same pit that you're 504 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: pooping in. It's really basic stuff, but like that was 505 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: a big part of it, right, Um. And then also 506 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 1: explaining how the infection process worked. Right, So because they 507 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: understood very early on, um that yes, you can get 508 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: rid of hook worms fairly easily, but you can also 509 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: get reinfected fairly easy, so they had to get that 510 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: part across as well. Yeah, and like again, you can't 511 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: buy everyone's shoes, but you can say, maybe don't play 512 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: near the outhouse. You gotta stop the poop slinging fights 513 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: all together. Yeah, they just have to be gone the 514 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: thing in the past. That's the number one thing. They're 515 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: part of the salad days. And then this the sample 516 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: analysis would begin, and the poor doctor would just look 517 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: with his microscope at each poop sample and say past fail, 518 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: pass fail. Well, and if the bag was vibrating, they 519 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: didn't even have to look. Yeah, like that that cheese 520 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: in Sardinia, I think that with the maggots, the maggot cheese. 521 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: Didn't we talk about a maggot episode, Sure we did. 522 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: We're both so Um. If you were found to be 523 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: infected with worms, you would get very simple, um pharmaceutical treatment, 524 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: really simple. There's this extraordinarily toxic stuff called thyme all yeah, 525 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: t H y m L Yeah. And it would kill 526 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: your worms. Yeah, and it could also kill you if 527 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: you took it with the wrong combination of foods or 528 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: and or alcoholic beverages. You wanted to avoid alcohol and 529 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: fats and oils on the day you took it, and 530 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: then you would follow your dose of thyme all with 531 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: epsom salt, which would remove the thyme all from your body. Yeah, 532 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: and uh, they said at some point, you know what, 533 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: that stuff is super toxic, so why don't we replace 534 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: that with something called carbon tectric chloride um That must 535 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: be much better. Now. It was also very lethal, I 536 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: guess it. You know, at the time didn't have anything 537 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: that wasn't also dangerous to take, right, and that did 538 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: the trick And the fact that the epsom salt would 539 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: get rid of it, I think helped quite a bit. Yeah. 540 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 1: So the great end of this story would be if 541 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: the Rockefeller's money was well spent and five to ten 542 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: years later they eradicated hookworm in the South. But that 543 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: didn't happen. Um. It was successful in a lot of ways. 544 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: Awareness kind of be in the chief way, but as 545 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: we said a few times, um reinfection is kind of 546 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: the biggest problem. Like you, they might have gotten rid 547 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: of a lot of hookworm, only you know, to have 548 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: these kids who couldn't help but have their poops slanging fights, uh, 549 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: and then get hookworm all over again exactly and so. 550 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: But if you go and read the Rockefeller's um the 551 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Foundations um rundown of that program, they basically say 552 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: it was this one guy who lobbied hard to like 553 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: just move on. Whatever it was somebody from the Rockfeller 554 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: found that said we're done with this. We've done our 555 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: work right. And they had, like you said, in a 556 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: certain way, they had set up some of the earliest 557 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: public health networks in the South. They had convinced the 558 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: South that there was such thing as hookworm and that 559 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: it was a big problem and that if they were 560 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 1: able to get rid of it, they could um catch 561 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: up to the rest of the country. And they said, 562 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: now the local doctors, now the local health clinics can 563 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: take over from here. But again, yeah, it wasn't until 564 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: the forties that that hookworm really started to be eradicated, 565 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: and it had very little to do with the pharmaceutical treatments. 566 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: It was the fact that indoor plumbing became prevalent, or 567 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean it was literally like better food, better plumbing, 568 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: more shoes, the end of share cropping, which was a 569 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: type of um agricultural system that kept people poor and 570 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: kept people in the fields. So it was it kept 571 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: the same unsanitary conditions for hookworm infection right there. Yeah, 572 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: what did you call it when they would dump the 573 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: poop night night soil? Yeah, no more night soil dumping. Uh, 574 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: mechanization started and it was kind of a combination of 575 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: all these Just the modernization of the American South is 576 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: really what ended it. Um. And you know, the proof 577 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: is kind of in the pudding in that today in 578 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: conditions similar to the American South a hundred years ago 579 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: plus in other parts of the world, it's still a 580 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: really big problem. It is a really problem, apparently something 581 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: like I saw up to um. In this article The 582 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: War on Hookworms by Andy Borrowitz, he says that up 583 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: to something like seven hundred and forty million people around 584 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: the world are thought to have hookworm infections, right yeah, 585 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: about forty to fifty million, of which are pregnant women, 586 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: which is you know, obviously one of the uh, one 587 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: of the worst. Like we said, kids and pregnant women 588 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: is one of the worst kind of people to get 589 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: to end the status, right and uh, mainly because it 590 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: increases your chances of dying during childbirth because of anemia. Right. Um, 591 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: So it is a huge problem around the world. There's there. 592 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: There's this kind of moniker for um hookworm infection along 593 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: with certain other infections. They're lumped together under the umbrella 594 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: of neglected tropical diseases. And the reason they're called that 595 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: is because this is stuff that, like you can easily 596 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 1: get rid of if you alleviate poverty in the the 597 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: developing world. But we're not doing that, and it's out 598 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: a neglect basically. Yeah, it's not. It's not the kind 599 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: of thing where you can just invent the vaccine and 600 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: it's gone again because of the reinfection, because these people 601 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: are still poor and still in those conditions. Um, we're talking. 602 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: It's some of the highest rates are Sierra Leone, Democratic 603 00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Ethiopia, India, Venezuela, Indonesia. UM also interestingly, UM, 604 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: China in Brazil, which kind of surprised me. Yeah, well 605 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: it's the same thing is like the South back in 606 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: the day, where you have very very um or well 607 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: off urban areas and very very very poor rural areas. 608 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: The same thing in parts of China and Brazil today. Yeah. 609 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: And I think another reason, Um, at least this article 610 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: you sent kind of makes the argument that it's uh 611 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: still a problem. In fact, since nine it's declined globally 612 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: by just five Yes, despite the fact that something like 613 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty million people have been treated for hookworm, 614 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: but that declines, it's only gone down five percent. And 615 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: all what that's saying is as long as there's the 616 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: unsanitary conditions, there's going to be hookworm, right, so we 617 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: have to alleviate the unsanitary conditions, and you do that 618 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: by alleviating poverty. And there's a group of of foundations 619 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, World Health Organization, 620 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: they've gotten together to create this End seven program, and 621 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: that's they're trying to end seven of the neglected tropical 622 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: diseases by and hookworm is one of them. And there's treatments. 623 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: There's it's really easy to get rid of hookworm. There's 624 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 1: actually a couple of ironic treatments for hookworm. One medication 625 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,439 Speaker 1: for getting rid of hookworm UM prevents the hookworms from 626 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: creating a t P, which is like an energy source, 627 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: so they become lethargic and die just like they make 628 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: you lethargic. The other medication, UM attaches the to the 629 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: hookworms intestines and prevents the hookworm from absorbing nutrients, so 630 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: they die of malnourishment, just like they make people malnourished. 631 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ironic or if they're like, 632 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: we're going to get these things back, you know. So, 633 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: like I was saying a minute ago, part of the 634 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: big problem uh with eradicating this is that it's not, um, 635 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: it's not a big news item. Like you know, a 636 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: lot like Ebola comes along, it grabs all the news, 637 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you have a lot of funding. Um, 638 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: hookworm isn't you know. I don't want to say a 639 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: sexy disease because it's gross, but it's not. Uh, it's 640 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 1: kind of just off forgotten, and so they don't have 641 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: a lot of funding. I'm glad that Gates Is are 642 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: involved because that, you know, that makes it much more 643 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: high profile. But um, you know, it's still a big, 644 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: big issue, and uh hopefully you know, this will help 645 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: raise a little bit of awareness. Sure well, if if 646 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: hookworm is eradicated by twenty we'll have played a rather 647 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: large role in that. Uh. But now we have a 648 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: final twist. Yeah, there's this really great quote from the 649 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 1: sixties from a Rockefeller um parasitic worm specialist who said that, um, 650 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: we needed the eventual helmntic defaundation of man, saying getting 651 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: rid of worms from the human race entirely right. And 652 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: he said that for only in a society made up 653 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: of parasite free individuals. Well, we know of what the 654 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: human being is capable, basically saying like, we have no 655 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: idea how much we're being held back as a as 656 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: an entire race by worms, So we need to get 657 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: rid of them. But there's this growing body of research, 658 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: chuck that's showing that we actually need to be infected 659 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: by hookworms. It looks like, well, if it can potentially 660 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: treat a few types of disease. UM, I don't. I 661 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that humans need it, but right now there's 662 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: some experimental research going on, and specific to hookworms, it 663 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: seems that it might help asthma. Okay, um, there are 664 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: other worms that they're using that could help with everything 665 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: from ultra to colitis, to Crohn's disease to multiple sclerosis. 666 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: But when it comes to the little hookworm, they think, um, 667 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: it might help asthma. Uh, they're not experimenting on humans yet. 668 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: The United States, I don't think. I think only in 669 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom right now are they using in humans. Um. 670 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: But because it took worm, that side effects are basically 671 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: all the things we've been talking about. Um, you know, 672 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: every everything bad about the hookworm is going to happen 673 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: to Hugh. Right. The thinking behind it though, because that 674 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: makes zero sense, like why would that help is that 675 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: for some reason, worm parasitic worms prevent the human immune 676 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: system from going overboard somehow, right, and that the reason 677 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: why we have autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis or um 678 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: Crohn's disease are because of a lack of parasitic worms 679 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: in our bodies because we've eradicated them. So now these 680 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 1: other diseases that are autoimmune diseases have been able to rise. 681 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: So it kind of is a like you said, a 682 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: weird little twy. Yeah, we'll see. I mean right now, 683 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 1: they're mainly working in mice and rats, um. But like 684 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: anytime you're working with mice and rats, it's can't exactly 685 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: extrapolate that onto humans. So we shall see. It's only 686 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: one way to find out for you and I volunteer. 687 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: Well they you know I did see some experiments not 688 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:23,240 Speaker 1: for this, but um, when they were doing hookworm experiments period, 689 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: they would infect people with hookworm and you know volunteers. Yeah, 690 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,760 Speaker 1: and again, I mean like, it's not like a hookworm 691 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: is gonna kill you. And if you are not going 692 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: to get reinfected because you wear shoes and use like 693 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: a toilet with running water, Um, it's sure. Why not 694 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: you do it for science and money? Yes? Are you 695 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: got anything else? I do not what we want to 696 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: recommend the articles How a Worm Gave the South Bad 697 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: Name by Rachel Newer and war on Hookworms from Andy Borrowitz. 698 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: They're both well worth reading. Uh and Uh, since I 699 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,919 Speaker 1: said they're well we're reading, it's time for listening to mail. 700 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna call this uh follow up from 701 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: a very sweet couple I met at the airport. I 702 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: think I talked about them after our one I think 703 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,320 Speaker 1: the Midwestern tour UM or no, no, no, it was 704 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: Louisiana New Orleans show. I met this very nice couple 705 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: who had been to the show. Um. They were I 706 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: think one of our more veteran and wise UM listeners 707 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: and show attendees. They were wonderful, uh, and they stopped 708 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: me in the airport. We talked for a little bit 709 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: and this is from them. Hey, Chuck, I wanted to 710 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: follow up. After the show in New Orleans, we talked 711 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: to you at the airport while we were waiting for 712 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: our flight back to Minneapolis. You were very gracious talking 713 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: to us when we had clearly interrupted you on your 714 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: way to do or get something, probably had a poop. 715 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: We told you our new hobby was going and following 716 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: you guys around the country. Uh, and making vacations that 717 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: out of your shows on tour, remember that. But we 718 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: haven't made it to a live show since. Um, we 719 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: haven't done a lot of shows since that. Uh, that's true. Well, 720 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: we've done a handful. We've both been slacking both parties. Yes, 721 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: but we're gonna hit the road for some shows later 722 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: this year, by the way, Uh, stay tuned for that. 723 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: So you and Josh did, however, inspire us in our 724 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,439 Speaker 1: new venture. We started a podcast. Just before we left 725 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: to drive to Alaska in May. Joyce, who was the 726 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: lady in the couple, um, downloaded a bunch of podcasts 727 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 1: on how to make a podcast. By the time we 728 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: got back to Minnesota, we were well on our way 729 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: to starting Tall Tales and Travel, our podcast about adventures 730 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: in the outdoors. Uh, Lair and I don't know if 731 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: it's l A R R E. And I can't remember 732 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 1: if it was Lair or Larry. Layer's probably short for Larry, 733 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: maybe short for Lawrence, so it's doubly short. I'm gonna 734 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: call him Lair just l Uh. He has decades worth 735 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: of stories which have mostly taken place in Alaska. He's 736 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: been a bush pilot, charter boat captain, a police officer, 737 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: and general outdoorsman, to name a few adventure settings. Yeah, 738 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: that's a Layer. If I've ever heard on Lair, it 739 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: does most of the talking and Joyce does most of 740 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: the behind the scenes tasks. Uh. It's a division of 741 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 1: labor that we've mastered over the last thirty odd years. Together. 742 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: We have a website, Tall Tales and travel dot Com 743 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: where we post photos and videos from Lair's huge archive. 744 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: Now that we're up and running, we'll be putting more 745 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,399 Speaker 1: work into sorting and sharing the collection more regularly. By 746 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 1: the way, we used square space. Thanks for the tip. 747 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: Nice anyway, guys were just writing into thank you for 748 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,439 Speaker 1: the inspiration to let you know that we haven't given 749 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: up on seeing you live again. We're gonna keep our 750 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,799 Speaker 1: ears open and here where Stuff you Should Know will 751 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: be up next, plan an adventure to see you there. 752 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: All the best that is Joyce Olsen and Lair Broward 753 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: and again check it out um Tall Tales and Travel 754 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: dot com or at Tall Tales and Travel dot Libson 755 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: l I B s y N dot com. And they 756 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 1: were just really sweet and nice and supportive. And the 757 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: notion that these people in their retirement would follow us 758 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,959 Speaker 1: around the country just kind of knock my socks off. Yeah. 759 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: So I haven't listened to the show yet because this 760 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: just came in, but I'm gonna give it a whirl. Yeah, 761 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: thanks you guys in congratulations. It's pretty awesome. Um and uh, 762 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: I guess if we've inspired you, like Joyce and Layer 763 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: to do something neat, let us know about it. You 764 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,280 Speaker 1: can tweet to us at s y s K podcast. 765 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff 766 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us an email The 767 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: Stuff podcasts at how stuff Works dot com and has 768 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web, Stuff 769 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com. For more on this and 770 00:47:51,719 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, is that how Stuff Works dot com.