WEBVTT - Graffiti: So Cool It’s A Pillar of Hip Hop 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.520 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.360 Chuck and we are doing a wild style today. You're 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.400 on Stuff you Should Know, one of those episodes where 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.840 it's like this topic is cooler than we are, but 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.040 we're going to give it our best to try to 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.360 get across how neat it really is. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.920 Oh man, I'm not gonna say when. Maybe you can guess, 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.680 but there's one portion of this that it'll be the 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.520 most like middle aged white dude thing ever. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.560 Okay, I'm looking forward to it because I can't guess. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:43.680 Okay, I'll see me. You'll probably know when I go 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:44.960 into my voice. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.519 Okay, is it that old witch voice that you like 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:47.800 to do? 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.960 No, no, no, no, you'll know the voice. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.400 All right. Is it an Italian thing? 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:54.240 No? Not Italian? 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.120 All right, I'll figure it out. Then we're talking graffiti obviously, Chuck, 0:00:58.160 --> 0:00:59.840 I don't know if everybody knows that. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.240 Yeah, I mean, we covered some of this in our 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.320 hip hop episode for sure, but this is one of 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.120 the pillars of hip hop culture, as we'll see. But 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:13.000 graffiti needed its own thing, and graffiti in the United States, 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.280 we basically think of as sort of the late sixties 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.920 East Coast thing, and this isn't one of those things. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.040 I do see where Livia put in like cave drawings, 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.480 but I'm not even going to talk about that, sure 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.920 because I was like, come on, Olivia. 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:27.479 But. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.640 Very good point here in Mexico and like the nineteen 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.080 thirties where mural art and sort of public art during 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.920 the Mexican Revolution was a big thing, and so Chicano 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.280 kids in the nineteen thirties sort of brought that same 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.279 style to La and other cities in the nineteen thirties 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.600 and forties before the spray can was invented. But I 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.080 feel like that is a genuine sort of precursor to 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.120 what we know is modern graffiti. 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.360 Yeah, because they were, well, they were writing on walls sometimes, 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.760 they were using paint and brushes. Markers didn't exist, spray 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.640 can didn't exist yet, but they were using what they 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.320 had a lot of times just to tag their neighborhood 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.120 as like this, this turf belongs to this gang. But 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.360 they added flourishes that kind of gave rise to some 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.600 of the details and touches that are still around in 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:19.280 graffiti today. So it is definitely a valid river that 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.079 flowed into this larger river that flows into the ocean 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.959 of graffiti that's on planet Earth, which would be the 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:27.960 hip hop culture. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.200 I mentioned the spray can that's obviously a vital part 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.480 of graffiti. That was in nineteen forty nine by a 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.239 paint owner in Illinois, a paint company owner named ed 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.560 Seymour and his wife. And I tried to find her name. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.240 What's her name, Bonnie? Oh, I couldn't find it. You 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:45.760 found Bonnie. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:47.760 I had to look really hard, yes, but I found 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:49.359 it Bonnie. Isn't it a love of name? 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.080 Nice work? Yeah? I do love the name Bonnie. But 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.360 they said they were trying to coat radiators with an 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.480 aluminum coating, so they invented the spray can, and right away, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.959 like you know, people that were protesting or maybe artist 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.240 on the down low, because you can hide a can 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.840 pretty easily, you can work with it very quickly. It 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.280 works on a lot of different kinds of surfaces. So 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.640 all of a sudden, spray cans, you know, really paved 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:16.000 the way. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:20.040 Yeah. Pazzi from Happy Days famously was a Clandestinian artist 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:21.320 using spray paint. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.680 Oh really, no, I remember that one I could Hey, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.600 I could have seen that be in a Happy Day's episode. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.560 Yeah, but I wouldn't have been yeah, exactly. Maybe Ralph 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.000 Mouth might have gotten talked into trying it and then. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.160 Just fade out, but probably would have been Richie. 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.600 Yeah, I guess so. Man, that was such a good. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.760 Show, like a real Lesson Learner episode. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:40.200 Yeah. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:41.600 Yeah. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.520 And the fond who you'd think would be like a 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.120 spray paint graffiti artist, like Van Doll, that's the one 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.920 who talks to Richie's like, that's not cool. So there's 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.600 a lot of advantages to using spray paint. That's why 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.960 graffiti really kind of started. This is like where its 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.600 roots really took root. Markers are another thing that people use, 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.440 and most people think of spray paint with graffiti, but 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.040 markers are important and they didn't come around until the 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.680 nineteen fifties. So you had spray paint before you had markers, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.480 which is surprising to me. And if you want a 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.440 nice little trivia question, magic marker was the first marker 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.080 for commercial sale starting in nineteen fifty three. 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.400 That makes sense because that's became sort of the proprietary 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:28.400 eponem in a way. 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.080 Exactly. Yeah, for sure, not. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.880 So much anymore, I feel like, but in our era, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:33.400 for sure. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.479 Yeah, because it's fun to say. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.760 Yeah, it's a marker that creates magic. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:38.520 Exactly. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.400 I didn't really consider markers as graffiti, but then I 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.479 was like, yeah, like everything like on the inside of 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.400 a marta train or a New York subway car, like 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:48.119 that's all marker. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:49.040 All marker. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:49.760 Yeah it is. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.680 It's very important for what's called handstyle, as we'll see. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.840 That's right. But we need to talk about cornbread, right. 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.840 Yeah. So there's a guy named Darryl McCrae who will 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.560 tell anybody who sits long enough that he was the 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.960 person who invented graffiti. Yeah, and he makes a really 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.559 good case. Unfortunately, there's some other people who were doing 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.680 the same thing at the same time, but you could 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.640 still say corn bread, which was his handle his tag. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.000 Was one of the very first people who took up graffiti, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.440 starting in nineteen sixty five. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.039 Yeah, he was but a twelve year old. He's a 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:29.120 Philly guy, and he was in Juvie, and in Juvie 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.480 he said, I don't want this white bread. I want 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.960 corn bread. My grandmother made cornbread and I love that stuff. 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.400 So he got the nickname Cornbread. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.600 I don't think he got the corn bread though. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.720 I doubt if he got the corn bread. It's very 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.800 labor intensive to make cornbread for sure, I mean compared 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:44.599 to this opening up a bag of white bread. You know. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.720 Also, though, I think at places called youth development center, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.600 they don't give you your preferred food day, give you 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:51.840 what you're going to. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.560 Eat, Yeah, like Oliver Twist style. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.200 Yeah, no requests please, no more. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.480 So he took that nickname, start riding it on the 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.680 walls there at his institution that he was in, and 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.360 then when he got out in nineteen sixty seven, he 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.600 would take to the streets of Philly writing his name Cornbread, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.039 especially like if he knew that his sweetie Pie was 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.760 on the bus, he would ride it along the bus 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.320 route so she could see that and be impressed. 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.640 Sometimes running alongside the bus. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.200 Yeah, like while it was going other bus lines. And 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.080 that was sort of the you know, the beginning along 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.000 as we'll see and you know, which was already happening 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.160 in Spanish Harlem of sort of the early point of graffiti, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.920 which is like a name, you know, later on they 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.400 would call it a tag, and the point was to 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.600 get that out in as many places as you could, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.920 and and like you were super cool if you did 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.240 it in like a very risky or hard to reach 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.240 place like the wall in front of the cop shop 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.080 or the top of a water tower or something like that. 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.320 Yeah, and so you add in the flourishes that Chicano 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.919 kids came up within the thirties, forties, fifties, sixties and 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:04.120 in la with getting your tag out there as many 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.960 places as you can. That's the That is definitely the 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:11.760 beginning of graffiti. And this is where most people point 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.520 to as the start of the whole thing. In the 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.680 sixties and seventies in New York City, all of this 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.360 started to blossom. All these things kind of came together 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.560 and just the right hands and graffiti became a thing, 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.960 just slowly but surely. Like you said, some of the 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.720 first people were just writing their names and they would 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.080 come up with this tag. And some of the earliest 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.280 tags came from Spanish Harlem, where you would have your 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.240 nickname and then in number like Turk one eighty two, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.560 and Turk would be your nickname, one eighty two would 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.600 be the street you hailed from. I think Turk one 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.040 eighty two is entirely made up. I don't think it 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.480 was a docu drama. But one of the first two 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.760 was Julio two to four and Taki one eighty three. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.440 Yeah, Taki one eighty three. Taki was the nickname, a 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.080 Greek nickname for Dmitri. It still is. But Taki was 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.440 a this is in like sixty nine or seventy was 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.000 a delivery worker. So Taki went all over the city. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.760 So it was a really good way to get the 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.760 Taki one eighty three tag all over the place, and 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.000 it got so far and wide that Taki was actually 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.040 part of a New York Times article in nineteen seventy one, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.120 and all of a sudden it inspired people saying, hey, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.680 like this is the cool new thing to do on 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:25.120 the street. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.160 Yeah or else they hated Taki one a three for 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.640 disraacing New York all over the place. 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:31.240 Good point. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.840 That same year that the article on takiy three came out, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.400 there was the first graffiti crew kind of came together 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.440 Writer's Corner one eighty eight. They met at the corner 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.840 of Audubon and one eighty eighth Street, one hundred and 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.040 eighty eighth Street, as they say in New York and 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.000 the crew was called WC one eighty eight, and it 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.560 was like one of the first ways that people started 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.880 sharing different style tips and kinds of markers that did 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.800 different things. It was just the first way that different 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.760 people doing the same thing came together and figured out 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:03.680 how to do it better. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.640 Yeah, And like I said, it was sort of a 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.400 quantity over quality thing for a while. I think that's 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.920 sadly kind of part of it now a little bit. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.040 When I see graffiti around Atlanta, there's some really good 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.319 stuff and also some really kind of not so great 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:21.880 tags that I see a lot. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.480 Yeah, and more often than not, it's the not so 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.360 great ones, right, kind of like watching adults skateboard. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:33.280 Yeah, god yeah, I mean, man, Atlanta just didn't have 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.680 the skateboarders. That's a West Coast thing I never see. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.760 I always see those guys trying to do the tricks, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.679 but they never land the tricks exactly. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.800 That's exactly like junkie tags, which is I think called 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.079 toy in the the graffiti world. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.240 Oh really, toy If your tag is just sort of 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:50.320 not great. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.679 Yeah, if it's just junkie amateurish graffiti, it's toy graffiti. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:56.760 Well, what if these people are like, hey man, I'm 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.440 not such a great artist. Lay off, I'm trying. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.040 Will they I would say, stop doing what you're doing 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.680 and go do something else then, because the streets are 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:06.560 made for good graffiti. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:07.560 Not toys. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:08.200 Right. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.679 The subway was where things got really a little more 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:18.320 like artistic. I guess, riding on a subway train in 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.080 New York you could obviously get your name out, you know, 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.400 to more people, because that subway's going all over the place. Right, 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.080 It's also risky, and as we'll see, like risk is 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.480 a big you know, I mentioned like the wall and 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.680 from the police station, Like risk is a big, big 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.600 part of it. Because like as you'll see, like when 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.640 they made great efforts in the in the seventies and 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.560 eighties in New York to stop this stuff, it wasn't 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.600 like they were like, oh boy, we better stop doing 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.760 this graffiti. It was sort of like game on man, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.200 like this is what we're looking for. Like now we 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.319 know they're after us, so it makes it even more 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:53.920 sort of challenging and risky. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.800 Yeah, I mean these early graffiti artists were by definition 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.440 juvenile delinquents to a person, So the idea of adding 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.760 more challenges to them just played exactly into their whole 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.800 ethos etho, Yes, I could never remember. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.400 And to be clear that with this, I just want 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.800 to if you don't understand, they're not spray painting the 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:14.880 moving subway cars. They would break into the rail yards 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:16.600 at night, and all of a sudden, you have this 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.079 huge canvas just sitting there. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.440 Yeah, exactly, And like you said, a lot of people 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.640 would see it because that subway car the next day 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.800 would be traveling all over New York. So that was 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:27.719 a big deal. And that's kind of what you think 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.240 of when you think of late seventies early eighties graffiti 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.600 in New York subway cars is kind of traveling all 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.280 over the place with really cool, colorful graffiti on them. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:38.199 Totally. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.880 Do you want to take an early break or you 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.720 want to keep talking and get into some different kinds 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:44.520 and styles. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.520 Yeah, maybe let's break down the styles first. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.880 All right, let's see it. So it turns out there's 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:57.000 three categories of graffiti in order of easiness to increasing hardness. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:58.440 It's got to be a better way to put it, 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.439 but I'm leaving it there. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.959 There's tags, yeah. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.880 Which Olivia calls very sterily basic identifying signs. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.240 I love that well, tags didn't comelong until nineteen ninety 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:10.480 the word, right. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.080 But essentially it's your signature. It's your nickname spelled out 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.280 in a very stylized way specific to you. That's what 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.200 handstyle is. And then when you use your hand style 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.319 to put up that nickname in a certain stylized way 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.040 on the wall that today, at least, that's a tag. 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.719 That's one of the three kinds of graffiti. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.280 Yeah, and before they called it tagging in nineteen ninety, 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.160 back in the day, as they say, they would call 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.839 it hitting maybe or bombing or just writing yep, throw ups. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:48.080 Terrible name is the next kind. It can incorporate your tag. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.840 It's like your signature, but it's usually more than that. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.800 It's tag plus a lot of times it's multicolor, like 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.800 two or three colors, maybe even more if you've got 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.320 the time. It's you know, it's more. It's just said, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:01.320 it's kind of more artistic. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.360 Yeah, and they're almost always like bubbly letters from what 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:06.840 I can tell. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.400 Yeah, unless it's the block style, which I like. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.000 Yeah, blockbuster, Yeah, I like those as well. Those are 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.319 it's a different style. They're not throw ups. It's kind 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.400 of a style that could be used in throw ups, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.400 and there are a lot of times used using rollers, 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.920 but they're really large letters. A lot of times they're 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.240 more straight than bubbly, which is the differentiation. Like you 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.840 were saying, I like Blockbuster too, Chuck. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.679 Yeah, me too. And then you've got the best kind 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.440 when you might get a whole subway car and many 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.280 hours to decorate the saying, or a whole wall. And 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.960 those are called pieces, just like you would call an 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.640 art piece a piece, because it is an art piece 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:45.480 for sure. 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.600 They're way more detailed, way more colors. They have all 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.920 sorts of crazy cool effects, like fades from one color another. 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.000 They might have sparkles on them, they might somehow have 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.880 like a chrome effect. There's a lot more decoration to them. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.720 They're just amazing. That's probably what most people think of 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.320 when they think of graffiti or pieces. Yeah, and these 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.520 all are. They get They start out easy, like you 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.400 just practice doing tags, then you move on to throw ups, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.959 and then you move on to pieces eventually, and so 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.360 they also take different amounts of time. Like once you 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.720 get good at tagging, you can do this in like 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.240 less than a minute, maybe five. If you're just starting out, 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.080 it can take a minute if you're really really good 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.320 and have been doing it a long time. To put 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.000 a throw up up can take fifteen minutes if you're 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.160 still figuring out your way those pieces. This surprised me. 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.880 They can take days to do. With multiple crews working 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.640 on the same thing, it can still take days. And 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.680 if you're just one dude making a piece a masterpiece, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.480 it can take months, weeks and months to get it done. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.280 Which I mean if you're doing this illicitly, like on 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.680 a wall somewhere, having to go back like night after 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.120 night to do this and not get caught, that's it's 0:14:59.280 --> 0:14:59.880 rather thrilling. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.480 If you asked me, well, and the just the time 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.720 investment for something that a third of the way through 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:08.880 or halfway through or towards the end could get could 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:09.320 go away. 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.680 I thought about that too. Man, that's kind of hurt. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:12.920 That would really suck. 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.680 What about wild style I referred to it early on. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.160 Wild style is obviously Superstylized's where you get sort of 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:27.040 the overlapping letter patterns. It's usually fairly bright and like 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.120 you mentioned, like a lot of shading, maybe a three 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.680 D effect. A lot of times these pieces have wild 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.280 style involved, right. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.600 Yeah, it's kind of like the most advanced form, I guess, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.120 just because it's so it's just it's really hard to 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.800 do and it's the most intricate usually, But it's also 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:51.680 kind of like gone beyond what most people appreciate as graffiti, 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.120 where they have no idea what this thing says. Like 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.880 other graffiti artists can read it, but the average person 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.800 is just like, oh, look at that of colors. It's 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:05.560 kind of like how metal bands logos have kind of 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.040 evolved to where they're like, I have no idea whose 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:12.000 album this is. It's very much similar that wild style is. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.440 But one thing that stuck out to me Chuck wild style. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.400 I'm like that probably came around in maybe the nineties 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.720 at the earliest. It's from the seventies too, Like all 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.400 of this stuff is from the seventies. So in the 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.520 seventies in New York City, the general guidelines for what 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.560 constitutes graffiti's still today were laid out and established by 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.680 those people, Like it's still followed today. I think that's amazing. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:38.440 You know. 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.920 I thought it'd be added piece by piece over the decades, 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.040 but no, they figured it out pretty much right out 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:43.440 of the gate. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.680 Yeah, that's cool. I love it. And then if you've 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.560 ever seen like and this is a little more West coast, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.280 like the old English style or like the western saloon 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.080 lettering that's known as solo style, a word that you know, 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.240 sort of associated with like gang culture, like Mexican gang culture, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.040 but that developed from that Chicano writing culture on the 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.200 West coast and then spread around, like you can see 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.200 that on the East coast. But it's definitely I feel 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.600 like more West Coast thing. And that looks super cool. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.480 Too, No, it definitely does. There's also they use a 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.600 lot of characters, cartoonish characters of like gangbangers with bandanas 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.640 like almost over their eyes, that kind of dude. Yeah, 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.920 they show up a lot. It just seems like there's 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.520 a lot more cartoon figures in Tolo style than say 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.600 that New York graffiti. There was one more style that 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.320 I ran across called anti style or ignorant style, and 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.000 essentially it's like what most people would call toy it's 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.399 just primitive. It's amateurish, but it's done on purpose because 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.959 it's done by graffiti artists, a lot of whom are 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.879 actually really good, who are like this has gotten totally 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.040 out of control. If you've seen this wild style stuff. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.240 We need to like get back to basics and just 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.639 have fun with us again. And so they're kind of 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.119 trying to recapture what the earliest graffiti artists from, like 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.119 the seventies. We're doing as they when they figured it 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.679 out as they went along. A lot of people hate it, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.679 can't stand it. They think it's just a dumb idea. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.600 But from what I can tell, if you're a good 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:14.359 artist doing purposefully primitive work, it's actually pretty cool looking. 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.520 All right, should we take that break? 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.000 I do want to take that break, Chuck, all right. 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:20.840 Let's go get our spray hands, check him up, and 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:21.520 we'll be right back. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.359 I want to learn about a terris or call it 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.840 red actol, how to take a bank is gone. That's 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:49.959 a little hunt the word up, Jerry. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.120 All right. So we mentioned markers early on, and obviously, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:56.720 like I said, inside, like on the wall of a 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:01.280 subway car. A lot of times maybe not even inside, 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.600 but if you just want to provide detail for a 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.879 larger piece on like the exterior of a subway car 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.520 or wall or something, yeah, you could use a marker. 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.320 And in the early days, pilot marks a lot and 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.840 dry mark dri and Sandford King size were they were 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.840 very broad tip markers. So those were some of the 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.480 early markers that were the most popular. And you could 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.200 also refill a lot of those with different kinds of ink. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.000 So the you know, the felt was just sort of 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.520 the instrument and you could put whatever color or mixed 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.920 colors if you wanted to, for sure. And they would 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.359 also like make their own stuff. It's a very sort 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.479 of DIY style of art where they were making their 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.720 own tools and components maybe like shoe polish bottles and 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:42.320 stuff like that. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.640