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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and we are doing a wild style today. You're

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Speaker 2: on Stuff you Should Know, one of those episodes where

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Speaker 2: it's like this topic is cooler than we are, but

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Speaker 2: we're going to give it our best to try to

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Speaker 2: get across how neat it really is.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, I'm not gonna say when. Maybe you can guess,

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Speaker 3: but there's one portion of this that it'll be the

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Speaker 3: most like middle aged white dude thing ever.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm looking forward to it because I can't guess.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'll see me. You'll probably know when I go

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Speaker 3: into my voice.

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Speaker 2: Okay, is it that old witch voice that you like

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Speaker 2: to do?

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you'll know the voice.

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Speaker 2: All right. Is it an Italian thing?

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Speaker 3: No? Not Italian?

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Speaker 2: All right, I'll figure it out. Then we're talking graffiti obviously, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if everybody knows that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we covered some of this in our

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Speaker 3: hip hop episode for sure, but this is one of

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Speaker 3: the pillars of hip hop culture, as we'll see. But

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Speaker 3: graffiti needed its own thing, and graffiti in the United States,

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Speaker 3: we basically think of as sort of the late sixties

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Speaker 3: East Coast thing, and this isn't one of those things.

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Speaker 3: I do see where Livia put in like cave drawings,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not even going to talk about that, sure

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Speaker 3: because I was like, come on, Olivia.

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Speaker 2: But.

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Speaker 3: Very good point here in Mexico and like the nineteen

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Speaker 3: thirties where mural art and sort of public art during

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Speaker 3: the Mexican Revolution was a big thing, and so Chicano

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Speaker 3: kids in the nineteen thirties sort of brought that same

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Speaker 3: style to La and other cities in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 3: and forties before the spray can was invented. But I

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Speaker 3: feel like that is a genuine sort of precursor to

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Speaker 3: what we know is modern graffiti.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because they were, well, they were writing on walls sometimes,

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Speaker 2: they were using paint and brushes. Markers didn't exist, spray

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Speaker 2: can didn't exist yet, but they were using what they

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Speaker 2: had a lot of times just to tag their neighborhood

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Speaker 2: as like this, this turf belongs to this gang. But

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Speaker 2: they added flourishes that kind of gave rise to some

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Speaker 2: of the details and touches that are still around in

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Speaker 2: graffiti today. So it is definitely a valid river that

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Speaker 2: flowed into this larger river that flows into the ocean

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Speaker 2: of graffiti that's on planet Earth, which would be the

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Speaker 2: hip hop culture.

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Speaker 3: I mentioned the spray can that's obviously a vital part

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Speaker 3: of graffiti. That was in nineteen forty nine by a

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Speaker 3: paint owner in Illinois, a paint company owner named ed

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Speaker 3: Seymour and his wife. And I tried to find her name.

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Speaker 3: What's her name, Bonnie? Oh, I couldn't find it. You

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Speaker 3: found Bonnie.

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Speaker 2: I had to look really hard, yes, but I found

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Speaker 2: it Bonnie. Isn't it a love of name?

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Speaker 3: Nice work? Yeah? I do love the name Bonnie. But

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Speaker 3: they said they were trying to coat radiators with an

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Speaker 3: aluminum coating, so they invented the spray can, and right away,

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Speaker 3: like you know, people that were protesting or maybe artist

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Speaker 3: on the down low, because you can hide a can

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Speaker 3: pretty easily, you can work with it very quickly. It

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Speaker 3: works on a lot of different kinds of surfaces. So

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, spray cans, you know, really paved

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Pazzi from Happy Days famously was a Clandestinian artist

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Speaker 2: using spray paint.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, no, I remember that one I could Hey,

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Speaker 3: I could have seen that be in a Happy Day's episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I wouldn't have been yeah, exactly. Maybe Ralph

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Speaker 2: Mouth might have gotten talked into trying it and then.

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Speaker 3: Just fade out, but probably would have been Richie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so. Man, that was such a good.

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Speaker 3: Show, like a real Lesson Learner episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the fond who you'd think would be like a

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Speaker 2: spray paint graffiti artist, like Van Doll, that's the one

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Speaker 2: who talks to Richie's like, that's not cool. So there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of advantages to using spray paint. That's why

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Speaker 2: graffiti really kind of started. This is like where its

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Speaker 2: roots really took root. Markers are another thing that people use,

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Speaker 2: and most people think of spray paint with graffiti, but

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Speaker 2: markers are important and they didn't come around until the

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifties. So you had spray paint before you had markers,

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Speaker 2: which is surprising to me. And if you want a

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Speaker 2: nice little trivia question, magic marker was the first marker

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Speaker 2: for commercial sale starting in nineteen fifty three.

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Speaker 3: That makes sense because that's became sort of the proprietary

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Speaker 3: eponem in a way.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, for sure, not.

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Speaker 3: So much anymore, I feel like, but in our era,

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's fun to say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a marker that creates magic.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really consider markers as graffiti, but then I

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Speaker 3: was like, yeah, like everything like on the inside of

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Speaker 3: a marta train or a New York subway car, like

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Speaker 3: that's all marker.

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Speaker 2: All marker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: It's very important for what's called handstyle, as we'll see.

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Speaker 3: That's right. But we need to talk about cornbread, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a guy named Darryl McCrae who will

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Speaker 2: tell anybody who sits long enough that he was the

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Speaker 2: person who invented graffiti. Yeah, and he makes a really

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Speaker 2: good case. Unfortunately, there's some other people who were doing

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Speaker 2: the same thing at the same time, but you could

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Speaker 2: still say corn bread, which was his handle his tag.

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Speaker 2: Was one of the very first people who took up graffiti,

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Speaker 2: starting in nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was but a twelve year old. He's a

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Speaker 3: Philly guy, and he was in Juvie, and in Juvie

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Speaker 3: he said, I don't want this white bread. I want

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Speaker 3: corn bread. My grandmother made cornbread and I love that stuff.

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Speaker 3: So he got the nickname Cornbread.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he got the corn bread though.

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Speaker 3: I doubt if he got the corn bread. It's very

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Speaker 3: labor intensive to make cornbread for sure, I mean compared

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Speaker 3: to this opening up a bag of white bread. You know.

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Speaker 2: Also, though, I think at places called youth development center,

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Speaker 2: they don't give you your preferred food day, give you

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Speaker 2: what you're going to.

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Speaker 3: Eat, Yeah, like Oliver Twist style.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no requests please, no more.

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Speaker 3: So he took that nickname, start riding it on the

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Speaker 3: walls there at his institution that he was in, and

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Speaker 3: then when he got out in nineteen sixty seven, he

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Speaker 3: would take to the streets of Philly writing his name Cornbread,

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Speaker 3: especially like if he knew that his sweetie Pie was

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Speaker 3: on the bus, he would ride it along the bus

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Speaker 3: route so she could see that and be impressed.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes running alongside the bus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like while it was going other bus lines. And

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Speaker 3: that was sort of the you know, the beginning along

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Speaker 3: as we'll see and you know, which was already happening

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Speaker 3: in Spanish Harlem of sort of the early point of graffiti,

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Speaker 3: which is like a name, you know, later on they

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Speaker 3: would call it a tag, and the point was to

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Speaker 3: get that out in as many places as you could,

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Speaker 3: and and like you were super cool if you did

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Speaker 3: it in like a very risky or hard to reach

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Speaker 3: place like the wall in front of the cop shop

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Speaker 3: or the top of a water tower or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you add in the flourishes that Chicano

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Speaker 2: kids came up within the thirties, forties, fifties, sixties and

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Speaker 2: in la with getting your tag out there as many

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Speaker 2: places as you can. That's the That is definitely the

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Speaker 2: beginning of graffiti. And this is where most people point

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Speaker 2: to as the start of the whole thing. In the

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Speaker 2: sixties and seventies in New York City, all of this

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Speaker 2: started to blossom. All these things kind of came together

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Speaker 2: and just the right hands and graffiti became a thing,

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Speaker 2: just slowly but surely. Like you said, some of the

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Speaker 2: first people were just writing their names and they would

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Speaker 2: come up with this tag. And some of the earliest

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Speaker 2: tags came from Spanish Harlem, where you would have your

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Speaker 2: nickname and then in number like Turk one eighty two,

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Speaker 2: and Turk would be your nickname, one eighty two would

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Speaker 2: be the street you hailed from. I think Turk one

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Speaker 2: eighty two is entirely made up. I don't think it

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Speaker 2: was a docu drama. But one of the first two

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Speaker 2: was Julio two to four and Taki one eighty three.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Taki one eighty three. Taki was the nickname, a

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Speaker 3: Greek nickname for Dmitri. It still is. But Taki was

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Speaker 3: a this is in like sixty nine or seventy was

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Speaker 3: a delivery worker. So Taki went all over the city.

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Speaker 3: So it was a really good way to get the

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Speaker 3: Taki one eighty three tag all over the place, and

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Speaker 3: it got so far and wide that Taki was actually

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Speaker 3: part of a New York Times article in nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden it inspired people saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: like this is the cool new thing to do on

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Speaker 3: the street.

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Speaker 2: Yeah or else they hated Taki one a three for

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Speaker 2: disraacing New York all over the place.

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Speaker 3: Good point.

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Speaker 2: That same year that the article on takiy three came out,

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Speaker 2: there was the first graffiti crew kind of came together

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Speaker 2: Writer's Corner one eighty eight. They met at the corner

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Speaker 2: of Audubon and one eighty eighth Street, one hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty eighth Street, as they say in New York and

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Speaker 2: the crew was called WC one eighty eight, and it

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Speaker 2: was like one of the first ways that people started

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Speaker 2: sharing different style tips and kinds of markers that did

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Speaker 2: different things. It was just the first way that different

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Speaker 2: people doing the same thing came together and figured out

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Speaker 2: how to do it better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I said, it was sort of a

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Speaker 3: quantity over quality thing for a while. I think that's

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Speaker 3: sadly kind of part of it now a little bit.

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Speaker 3: When I see graffiti around Atlanta, there's some really good

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Speaker 3: stuff and also some really kind of not so great

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Speaker 3: tags that I see a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and more often than not, it's the not so

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Speaker 2: great ones, right, kind of like watching adults skateboard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, god yeah, I mean, man, Atlanta just didn't have

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Speaker 3: the skateboarders. That's a West Coast thing I never see.

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Speaker 3: I always see those guys trying to do the tricks,

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Speaker 3: but they never land the tricks exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly like junkie tags, which is I think called

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Speaker 2: toy in the the graffiti world.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, toy If your tag is just sort of

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Speaker 3: not great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's just junkie amateurish graffiti, it's toy graffiti.

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Speaker 3: Well, what if these people are like, hey man, I'm

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Speaker 3: not such a great artist. Lay off, I'm trying.

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Speaker 2: Will they I would say, stop doing what you're doing

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Speaker 2: and go do something else then, because the streets are

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Speaker 2: made for good graffiti.

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Speaker 3: Not toys.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: The subway was where things got really a little more

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Speaker 3: like artistic. I guess, riding on a subway train in

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Speaker 3: New York you could obviously get your name out, you know,

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Speaker 3: to more people, because that subway's going all over the place. Right,

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Speaker 3: It's also risky, and as we'll see, like risk is

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Speaker 3: a big you know, I mentioned like the wall and

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Speaker 3: from the police station, Like risk is a big, big

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Speaker 3: part of it. Because like as you'll see, like when

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Speaker 3: they made great efforts in the in the seventies and

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Speaker 3: eighties in New York to stop this stuff, it wasn't

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Speaker 3: like they were like, oh boy, we better stop doing

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Speaker 3: this graffiti. It was sort of like game on man,

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Speaker 3: like this is what we're looking for. Like now we

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Speaker 3: know they're after us, so it makes it even more

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Speaker 3: sort of challenging and risky.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these early graffiti artists were by definition

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Speaker 2: juvenile delinquents to a person, So the idea of adding

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Speaker 2: more challenges to them just played exactly into their whole

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Speaker 2: ethos etho, Yes, I could never remember.

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Speaker 3: And to be clear that with this, I just want

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Speaker 3: to if you don't understand, they're not spray painting the

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Speaker 3: moving subway cars. They would break into the rail yards

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Speaker 3: at night, and all of a sudden, you have this

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Speaker 3: huge canvas just sitting there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And like you said, a lot of people

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Speaker 2: would see it because that subway car the next day

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Speaker 2: would be traveling all over New York. So that was

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Speaker 2: a big deal. And that's kind of what you think

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Speaker 2: of when you think of late seventies early eighties graffiti

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Speaker 2: in New York subway cars is kind of traveling all

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Speaker 2: over the place with really cool, colorful graffiti on them.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to take an early break or you

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Speaker 2: want to keep talking and get into some different kinds

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Speaker 2: and styles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe let's break down the styles first.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's see it. So it turns out there's

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Speaker 2: three categories of graffiti in order of easiness to increasing hardness.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be a better way to put it,

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Speaker 2: but I'm leaving it there.

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Speaker 3: There's tags, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Which Olivia calls very sterily basic identifying signs.

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Speaker 3: I love that well, tags didn't comelong until nineteen ninety

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Speaker 3: the word, right.

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Speaker 2: But essentially it's your signature. It's your nickname spelled out

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Speaker 2: in a very stylized way specific to you. That's what

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Speaker 2: handstyle is. And then when you use your hand style

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Speaker 2: to put up that nickname in a certain stylized way

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Speaker 2: on the wall that today, at least, that's a tag.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the three kinds of graffiti.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and before they called it tagging in nineteen ninety,

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Speaker 3: back in the day, as they say, they would call

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Speaker 3: it hitting maybe or bombing or just writing yep, throw ups.

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Speaker 3: Terrible name is the next kind. It can incorporate your tag.

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Speaker 3: It's like your signature, but it's usually more than that.

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Speaker 3: It's tag plus a lot of times it's multicolor, like

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Speaker 3: two or three colors, maybe even more if you've got

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Speaker 3: the time. It's you know, it's more. It's just said,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of more artistic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're almost always like bubbly letters from what

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Speaker 2: I can tell.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unless it's the block style, which I like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, blockbuster, Yeah, I like those as well. Those are

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Speaker 2: it's a different style. They're not throw ups. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of a style that could be used in throw ups,

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Speaker 2: and there are a lot of times used using rollers,

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Speaker 2: but they're really large letters. A lot of times they're

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Speaker 2: more straight than bubbly, which is the differentiation. Like you

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Speaker 2: were saying, I like Blockbuster too, Chuck.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. And then you've got the best kind

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Speaker 3: when you might get a whole subway car and many

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Speaker 3: hours to decorate the saying, or a whole wall. And

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Speaker 3: those are called pieces, just like you would call an

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Speaker 3: art piece a piece, because it is an art piece

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 2: They're way more detailed, way more colors. They have all

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Speaker 2: sorts of crazy cool effects, like fades from one color another.

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Speaker 2: They might have sparkles on them, they might somehow have

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Speaker 2: like a chrome effect. There's a lot more decoration to them.

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Speaker 2: They're just amazing. That's probably what most people think of

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Speaker 2: when they think of graffiti or pieces. Yeah, and these

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00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 2: all are. They get They start out easy, like you

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Speaker 2: just practice doing tags, then you move on to throw ups,

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Speaker 2: and then you move on to pieces eventually, and so

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Speaker 2: they also take different amounts of time. Like once you

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Speaker 2: get good at tagging, you can do this in like

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Speaker 2: less than a minute, maybe five. If you're just starting out,

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Speaker 2: it can take a minute if you're really really good

303
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Speaker 2: and have been doing it a long time. To put

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Speaker 2: a throw up up can take fifteen minutes if you're

305
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Speaker 2: still figuring out your way those pieces. This surprised me.

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Speaker 2: They can take days to do. With multiple crews working

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Speaker 2: on the same thing, it can still take days. And

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Speaker 2: if you're just one dude making a piece a masterpiece,

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Speaker 2: it can take months, weeks and months to get it done.

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Speaker 2: Which I mean if you're doing this illicitly, like on

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Speaker 2: a wall somewhere, having to go back like night after

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Speaker 2: night to do this and not get caught, that's it's

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Speaker 2: rather thrilling.

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Speaker 3: If you asked me, well, and the just the time

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Speaker 3: investment for something that a third of the way through

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Speaker 3: or halfway through or towards the end could get could

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Speaker 3: go away.

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Speaker 2: I thought about that too. Man, that's kind of hurt.

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Speaker 3: That would really suck.

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Speaker 2: What about wild style I referred to it early on.

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Speaker 3: Wild style is obviously Superstylized's where you get sort of

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Speaker 3: the overlapping letter patterns. It's usually fairly bright and like

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, like a lot of shading, maybe a three

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Speaker 3: D effect. A lot of times these pieces have wild

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Speaker 3: style involved, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like the most advanced form, I guess,

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Speaker 2: just because it's so it's just it's really hard to

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Speaker 2: do and it's the most intricate usually, But it's also

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Speaker 2: kind of like gone beyond what most people appreciate as graffiti,

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Speaker 2: where they have no idea what this thing says. Like

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Speaker 2: other graffiti artists can read it, but the average person

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Speaker 2: is just like, oh, look at that of colors. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like how metal bands logos have kind of

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00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 2: evolved to where they're like, I have no idea whose

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00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 2: album this is. It's very much similar that wild style is.

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Speaker 2: But one thing that stuck out to me Chuck wild style.

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00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 2: I'm like that probably came around in maybe the nineties

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Speaker 2: at the earliest. It's from the seventies too, Like all

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00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 2: of this stuff is from the seventies. So in the

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Speaker 2: seventies in New York City, the general guidelines for what

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Speaker 2: constitutes graffiti's still today were laid out and established by

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Speaker 2: those people, Like it's still followed today. I think that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I thought it'd be added piece by piece over the decades,

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Speaker 2: but no, they figured it out pretty much right out

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Speaker 2: of the gate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's cool. I love it. And then if you've

348
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Speaker 3: ever seen like and this is a little more West coast,

349
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Speaker 3: like the old English style or like the western saloon

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00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 3: lettering that's known as solo style, a word that you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of associated with like gang culture, like Mexican gang culture,

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Speaker 3: but that developed from that Chicano writing culture on the

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Speaker 3: West coast and then spread around, like you can see

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Speaker 3: that on the East coast. But it's definitely I feel

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Speaker 3: like more West Coast thing. And that looks super cool.

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Speaker 2: Too, No, it definitely does. There's also they use a

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Speaker 2: lot of characters, cartoonish characters of like gangbangers with bandanas

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Speaker 2: like almost over their eyes, that kind of dude. Yeah,

359
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 2: they show up a lot. It just seems like there's

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Speaker 2: a lot more cartoon figures in Tolo style than say

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00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 2: that New York graffiti. There was one more style that

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Speaker 2: I ran across called anti style or ignorant style, and

363
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 2: essentially it's like what most people would call toy it's

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00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 2: just primitive. It's amateurish, but it's done on purpose because

365
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,959
Speaker 2: it's done by graffiti artists, a lot of whom are

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Speaker 2: actually really good, who are like this has gotten totally

367
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Speaker 2: out of control. If you've seen this wild style stuff.

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Speaker 2: We need to like get back to basics and just

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Speaker 2: have fun with us again. And so they're kind of

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00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 2: trying to recapture what the earliest graffiti artists from, like

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Speaker 2: the seventies. We're doing as they when they figured it

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Speaker 2: out as they went along. A lot of people hate it,

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Speaker 2: can't stand it. They think it's just a dumb idea.

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Speaker 2: But from what I can tell, if you're a good

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Speaker 2: artist doing purposefully primitive work, it's actually pretty cool looking.

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Speaker 3: All right, should we take that break?

377
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Speaker 2: I do want to take that break, Chuck, all right.

378
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Speaker 3: Let's go get our spray hands, check him up, and

379
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Speaker 3: we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: I want to learn about a terris or call it

381
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Speaker 1: red actol, how to take a bank is gone. That's

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Speaker 1: a little hunt the word up, Jerry.

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Speaker 3: All right. So we mentioned markers early on, and obviously,

384
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 3: like I said, inside, like on the wall of a

385
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 3: subway car. A lot of times maybe not even inside,

386
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 3: but if you just want to provide detail for a

387
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 3: larger piece on like the exterior of a subway car

388
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 3: or wall or something, yeah, you could use a marker.

389
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 3: And in the early days, pilot marks a lot and

390
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 3: dry mark dri and Sandford King size were they were

391
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 3: very broad tip markers. So those were some of the

392
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 3: early markers that were the most popular. And you could

393
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 3: also refill a lot of those with different kinds of ink.

394
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 3: So the you know, the felt was just sort of

395
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 3: the instrument and you could put whatever color or mixed

396
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 3: colors if you wanted to, for sure. And they would

397
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 3: also like make their own stuff. It's a very sort

398
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,479
Speaker 3: of DIY style of art where they were making their

399
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 3: own tools and components maybe like shoe polish bottles and

400
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 3: stuff like that.

401
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also mentioned that it's one of the four

402
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 2: pillars of hip hop. There's technically five as far as

403
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 2: Africa Bombarda is concerned, and that would be knowledge as

404
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 2: the fifth pillar, like knowledge of self, knowledge of where

405
00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 2: you come from, your history, real KRS one stuff, you know. Yeah,

406
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: and so as being part of hip hop culture, I

407
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 2: don't know if we said the other onesing and DJing

408
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: and breaking, Yeah, and graffiti and knowledge, those are the

409
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 2: five pillars of hip hop. And like the other stuff

410
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 2: like mceing and djaying and all that, and breaking in particular,

411
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: there's a real competitive element to graffiti, like where you

412
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 2: can go so far as you end up in a

413
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 2: war with other artists where you're spraying over their stuff. Yeah,

414
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: spraying over your stuff, and that is you're not supposed

415
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 2: to do that. Like, if you spray over somebody's stuff,

416
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 2: it better be terrible work and you better be really

417
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 2: good at it, because that's a huge flex. I guess

418
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: you would say if it was twenty twenty four.

419
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. It is also intersected with other art

420
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: forms over the years. In the nineteen eighties and there's

421
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 3: a comic artist named von Bode who was very influential

422
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 3: to this culture. He had a couple of characters, Puck

423
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 3: and Cheech Wizard he came up with. I think he

424
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,959
Speaker 3: came up with these characters like in the nineteen fifties wow.

425
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 3: But then in the sixties they were in like self

426
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 3: published comics and then went a little more and want

427
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 3: to say mainstream obviously not mainstream mainstream, but like seventy

428
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: two to seventy five they're in the National Lampoon, so

429
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 3: a little more mainstream.

430
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: Right.

431
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 3: And if you think you've heard that name before, that

432
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 3: sounds familiar, you might have heard the song sure Shot

433
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: by the Beastie Boys. I'm like von Bode I'm a

434
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 3: cheach Wizard, never quitting, so you won't listen very nice

435
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: Well said, yeah, I knew I had heard that before.

436
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: I was like, that's been in a song, I know it.

437
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And cheach Wizard is essentially like a giant wizard

438
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: hat with some legs coming out of it. It's cheech

439
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 2: Wizard and he's like a wise, smart ass kind of

440
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 2: well wizard hat. And I don't know, I didn't see why,

441
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 2: but for some reason, graffiti culture just loved that stuff.

442
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: So cheach Wizard shows up and Puck the Lizard show

443
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: up in a lot of graffiti from the seventies and eighties.

444
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 2: And then one of the other influences, I saw that

445
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: that cheech Wizard or von Bode had his lettering for

446
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 2: his comics. He like, from what I can tell, he

447
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 2: came up with bubble letters, and that that made its

448
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 2: way into graffiti directly from von Bode's comics.

449
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 3: Well, graffiti and the book covers of math books of

450
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: gen X Kids. Yep, I was big into the bubble lettering.

451
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, using those those pins with like the five different

452
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: colors that you can click.

453
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 3: Down, Yeah, I was okay at it. I definitely use

454
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 3: those pins. I remember G's giving me a lot of

455
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: trouble and S has given me a lot of trouble.

456
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: Those were hard, but I tried. How was your out

457
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: of bubble Q?

458
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 3: Oh God, is that a thing? It is now possible.

459
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: I think I just laid down the gauntlet for somebody

460
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 2: to come up with that.

461
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: Oh wow. So graffiti starts to spread around the world,

462
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: Britain in the late seven and amster Amsterdam in particular.

463
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 3: In the Netherlands and their punk scenes in the late seventies,

464
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 3: they started doing some of this stuff. Yeah, and then

465
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 3: it also helped spread because of media a little bit.

466
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: I mean, most of it was fairly underground media at

467
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: the time, unless it was some news report that had

468
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: a scathing report. But there was a photographer named Henry Chalfont, Yeah,

469
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: who did a few projects, one of which I highly

470
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: recommend watching on YouTube, a documentary from nineteen eighty three

471
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 3: called Style Wars, which is a really good watch.

472
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: It's one of those ones where you're like, I feel

473
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: cooler just watching this thing.

474
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

475
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 2: He just turned the he turned the camera. He and

476
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: the director Tony Silver, who worked together, they turned the

477
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: camera on these graffiti artists and just had them talk

478
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: and show what they were doing and explain why they

479
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 2: were doing this, and then interspersed is like break dancing

480
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: from the rock Steady Crew when they were just starting out.

481
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 2: Like it's just super cool, like this captured time capsule

482
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: like moment into yeah, where this is all starting. They

483
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: totally Henry Chaufont like got it. He was like, we

484
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: need to document this is because this is going to

485
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: be important.

486
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing. I mean there's there's other things like

487
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 3: photographs and this and that. But when you look at

488
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 3: the birth of a of a new art form in

489
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: sort of a urgeon in culture to have this this

490
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: sort of one document so like perfectly capture this moment

491
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: in time like you were talking about. It's I mean

492
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: that that should be in like the Library of Congress

493
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 3: like that kind of stuff for sure or whatever. What's

494
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: the film version of that, I can't remember the name.

495
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: Of it, The Fiberio of Fambus.

496
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wow.

497
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: I know that deserved a while. I'm really screeping the

498
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: bottom of the barrel here in year seventeen. Oh so

499
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: you said that it was it was like a document, right.

500
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: It actually is kind of referred to in in graffiti

501
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: culture still today, Like if somebody's starting out and they're like,

502
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: what should I go? What can I learn from? One

503
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: of the things that people refer them to Style Wars

504
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: because again, these these like essential guidelines were laid down

505
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: at this time, so you can still learn a ton

506
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: from watching Style Wars or Henry Chaufont got into a

507
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: couple of other projects too, one with a photographer named

508
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: Martha Cooper called Subway Art. I've also seen newbies referred

509
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: to that book too, and then another one with another photographer,

510
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 2: James Prigoff called spray cant Art. So Henry Chaufont had

511
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: a real impact on like documenting this stuff that still

512
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: is important today.

513
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was kind of like it made me think

514
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: of the guy I can't remember his name, but the

515
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 3: famous photographer who captured the southern California skateboard culture early on,

516
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 3: because they seem like kind of the only people doing

517
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: that in such a sort of artistic and profound way,

518
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 3: you know, right, you know, yeah, good stuff.

519
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: Two other things to call out. There's a photographer named

520
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 2: Gordon Matta Clark who documented photograph in photographs just like

521
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 2: tags all around New York City. Has a pretty cool

522
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: I think they'd make showings of his photographs sometimes. And

523
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: then the movie Wild Style actually came out a year

524
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: before Style Wars nineteen eighty two. It's considered the first

525
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 2: hip hop movie ever. I think it was a Fab

526
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: five Freddie project. But it has the Rock City Crew,

527
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: one of the rare early woman graffiti artists, Lady Pink,

528
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: she's in it, and then King ad Rock is in

529
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: it before he was called King ad Rock before the

530
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: Beastie Boys. Yeah, but there's a ton of like the

531
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: whole premise of this, it's a movie, like a fictional movie,

532
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: but the old premise is this guy's being hired to well,

533
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: I guess put up some graffiti by this. I can't

534
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: remember another dude or a company or something like that.

535
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: All right, I'll check that out.

536
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 2: Thanks.

537
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: So, you know, we mentioned graffiti as art because graffiti

538
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: is art, but as far as being accepted into like

539
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 3: the legitimate art community, that sort of happened in fits

540
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: and starts over the years. There was an I guess

541
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: the first academic article about graffiti was in nineteen sixty

542
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: nine in The Urban Review by Herbert Coles called names

543
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 3: Graffiti and Culture, and then a few years later in

544
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two, a big deal happened when, or a

545
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 3: big deal for that culture at least Hugo Martinez as

546
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 3: a student activist at City College in New York, and

547
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: he helped start a collective called United Graffiti Artists with

548
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 3: a bunch of Puerto Rican teen graffiti artists. And that

549
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: was sort of the first collective where he was like, hey,

550
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: do this stuff on canvas because this is art. And

551
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: they had an exhibition at City College and then the

552
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: very first graffiti art gallery show at the Razor Gallery

553
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: in Soho that same year.

554
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they became really influential. The next year, in

555
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, choreographer Twyla Tharp, she had the United

556
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: Graffiti Artists do basically the scene decorations for her performance

557
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: in Chicago. I can't remember what was called, but weirdly,

558
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: the dance was choreographed two Beach Boys music with graffiti

559
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: in the background. It was a real mishmash when the

560
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: whole Beastie Boys music, no, I said, beach Boys, And

561
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: the whole time she just kept going Twila, Twila, Twila.

562
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 2: Well she danced, that's good, You're getting better. Yeah, it

563
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: comes and goes.

564
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: We did mention. You know, obviously, the other side of

565
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 3: the coin is there is and still are people that

566
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: think this is just vandalism. They think it's just like

567
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: an urban decay happening before our very eyes. And in

568
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: the early seventies, New York got on board that line

569
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: of thinking, at least the government did, when Mayor John

570
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: Lindsay declared a war on graffiti. That following year, in

571
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: seventy two, the city Council said it's illegal to even

572
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: carry an aerosol can in a public facility. And then

573
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: in seventy five they created the Transit Police Graffiti Squad,

574
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: and you know, they're cleaning out subway cars. But like

575
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: I said, early all this, all this was was like

576
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: game on. Like there's not a single graffiti artist that

577
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: was intimidated or scared out of doing what they were

578
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: going to do because of this. If anything, it heightened it.

579
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another example of that is they outlawed selling spray

580
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: paint to teenagers in New York City. Yeah, and so

581
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: graffiti artists who were like, oh, okay, we'll just start

582
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: stealing it. That's cheaper anyway. So stealing your spray paint

583
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: became like just a part of graffiti and New York

584
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: in the in the seventies and eighties.

585
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, not condoning that.

586
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 2: Well, I said they were juvenile delinquents and I wasn't kidding.

587
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: Ed Koch, famous New York mayor in the latest seventies

588
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: and seventy seven, was very anti graffiti and would razor

589
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 3: wire the subway yards, had guard dogs, he had cops

590
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: like staking out houses and following kids home from school.

591
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: That's nuts, man, Yeah, that's just nuts.

592
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: So I think I don't know if Koch, Yeah, I

593
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: think Koch was still mayor at the time. They came

594
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: up with the Metro Transit Authority's Clean Car program, and

595
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: this one actually had an impact. This was beyond razor

596
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: wire and German shepherds.

597
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: Like.

598
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: This was if we find a train car has been

599
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: hit overnight with graffiti, it's not going to go back

600
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: out there until that graffiti is cleaned off. Yeah, So

601
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: imagine like working all night or whatever and getting your

602
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: piece up and it just cleaned off before it even

603
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: leaves the transit station. So that actually worked him. By

604
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, apparently, like whole car graffiti was just

605
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: not around anymore in New York. Like you can still

606
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: see it on cars, but they used to use the

607
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: entire car. There's a really famous one by Futura two

608
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: thousand and Dondie which is called Break, and it's considered

609
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: one of the greatest full subway car masterpieces anyone's ever done.

610
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: It's beyond description. Just go look up Break by Dondee

611
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: in Future A two thousand.

612
00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: What did you think of it?

613
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: I thought it was amazing because it just completely departed

614
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: from any kind of I know how just ridiculous I

615
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: sound right now. It departed from any kind of convention.

616
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: It used all sorts of new elements and stuff that

617
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen anywhere else, and you really had to

618
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: kind of examine it in detail and then also stepping

619
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: back to kind of take the whole thing in. I

620
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: didn't love it, yeah, I mean I could see that

621
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: that's hard, you know, yeah, exactly.

622
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: Or let's say this, I've seen a lot other stuff

623
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: that I thought was like, maybe it just appealed to me. Mohere.

624
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: I was about to say it was way better, but

625
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: that's again it's just in the eye of the beholder.

626
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: Man. That was a really great way to put it,

627
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: So thank you.

628
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: I appreciate that again, I mentioned earlier that it was

629
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: a sort of a DIY community when how I like

630
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: figuring stuff out, sharing tips and tricks with one another.

631
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: And from the beginning they would use various nozzles from

632
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 3: other types of cans or you know caps. They would

633
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 3: call them from different products to provide different ways of painting.

634
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: I know that you know when you spray that I

635
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: don't use the stuff, but that off oven cleaner. You know,

636
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: spray's that big, wide area. So they started using that

637
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: to achieve the same effect with paint. And they, I mean,

638
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: they were a real I guess when they were buying

639
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: the paint. Made a difference in the profits of Rustolium

640
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: and Crylon over the seventies, for sure.

641
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Rustolium and Cryon were Crylon were specifically avoiding

642
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: marketing or making their products attractive to graffiti artists. They

643
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: couldn't do no, this is no. You did not want

644
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 2: your brand being accused of catering to graffiti artists at

645
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: the time. But it was still pretty good. It was useful.

646
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why is because they were

647
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: both chuck full of lead up until the late seventies,

648
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: and lead does all sorts of great stuff for spray paint.

649
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: It makes it dry faster, it makes colors brighter, it's

650
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: more durable, it's moisture resistant. So when the leg got

651
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: taken out, that was a real bummer for griffist. Yes, yeah,

652
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: I mean I could see that having a huge impact.

653
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, in Europe they did market There were

654
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: a couple in the nineties, the Montana and Molotov brands

655
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: of spray paint actually target street art markets and have

656
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: all kinds of like you know, weather resistant paints and

657
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 3: crazy colors and different effects with their caps. So they

658
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: embraced it and basically said, hey, come buy our stuff.

659
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: Yes, but if you're a purist in America, you probably

660
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: are still using rustolium or cry line.

661
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

662
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: One of the other things that really kind of evolved

663
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: that helped things along was not having to take the

664
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: spray nozzle off of easy off anymore, and having nozzles

665
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: that were designed and sold for graffiti art, like all

666
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: sorts of different kinds of nozzles that do all sorts

667
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: of different kinds of things.

668
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, fat lines and skinny lines,

669
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: different caps achieve those effects. They had clear calligraphy caps.

670
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: If you ever been at a paint store and looked

671
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: at you know, sometimes you can even spray a little

672
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: piece of cardboard they have there on the wall.

673
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 2: Lucky.

674
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: But you know, sometimes it's a little round pinhole, but

675
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: sometimes it's a slot. And those are calligraphy caps like

676
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 3: a horizontal line. I never knew that.

677
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: I think those are big and solo graffiti too. Yeah,

678
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: needle caps they make splatters, so if you want like

679
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 2: controlled drips, you don't want uncontrolled drips or unintentional drips,

680
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: but you might want your piece to have some drip

681
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: look to it, so you would use needle caps. They

682
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: also add texture to the lines because they there's like

683
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: a like a splattery haze that when you step back

684
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: just kind of softens the lines a little bit from

685
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: the needle caps. It's pretty cool.

686
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: Should we take our second break?

687
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: I think we should.

688
00:34:48,440 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: All right, we'll come back right after this purpose.

689
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: I want to learn about a terris ORTA call it

690
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: red actol. How to take a perfect.

691
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: Is gone.

692
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: That's a little hunt the Lizzie word up, Jerry.

693
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 2: So if you wanted to get into this kind of thing,

694
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: there's a place to start, and it's called developing your

695
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 2: hand style and that is your own personal way of

696
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: writing your your tag essentially, and graffiti artists will come

697
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: up with their own entire alphabets that they just designed themselves.

698
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: And there's a really great website it's super useful if

699
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: you do want to get into graffiti called bombingscience dot com.

700
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 2: They have a post of sixty one different graffiti artists

701
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 2: and their alphabets essentially that they've created for their tags,

702
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: and it's really cool. Some of them you're like, I

703
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: have no idea what letter that is, but even still,

704
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 2: there's just super neat that people have put this much

705
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 2: thought into it and come up with a font essentially

706
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: their own personal font that they use for graffiti. And

707
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 2: the way that you do that is by practicing it

708
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: to develop your own handstyle, and that is essentially step one.

709
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: And you do that not on a wall or any

710
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: public place or even with paint. You start out with

711
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 2: pens and markers figuring it out.

712
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: That's right, And now we're going to give you some tips.

713
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, there we go.

714
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: You're gonna want to shake that can up, guys, got

715
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: to shake it really really good. All kidding aside, You

716
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 3: do want to shake that can up because that's what

717
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: makes the paint flow really well. Don't short change that shake.

718
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm speaking for a lot of listeners

719
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: and saying that I can't help but feel a little

720
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: forlorn that you're not doing this whole list in that point.

721
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 3: All right, I'll keep going.

722
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

723
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: Step two, guys can control. So this is how you're

724
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 3: gonna avoid those unwanted drips. Get a feel for that pressure.

725
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: It's gonna determine how quickly you're going to move that

726
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: hand to achieve that the end result that you're after.

727
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: Very nice can control, it's called.

728
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 3: And then finally, guys, you're really gonna want to adjust

729
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 3: that distance from the wall. If you're closer, it's gonna

730
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: be thinner, it's gonna be more saturated. It's gonna be

731
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: great for outlines. Step a little further away, it's going

732
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 3: to diffuse out it's gonna cover a wider area. It's

733
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: just science, guys, very nice man ah right, and scene.

734
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: So yes, the upshot of all this is the figuring

735
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: out the nozzle pressure in the distance from the wall,

736
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: or basically the two most basic things that you can

737
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: understand and learn about graffiti. But it's also the things

738
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: that come up the most.

739
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: That's right. And some of the rules which I kind

740
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: of like to see. You don't tag churches. You don't

741
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: graffiti churches. You don't graffiti schools. You're not supposed to

742
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: at least hospitals. You're not supposed to do this to

743
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 3: someone's house or their car, or certainly headstone at a cemetery,

744
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 3: or nature like trees and rocks. You don't know, those

745
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 3: big rocks in Central Park, you don't tag those. That's

746
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 3: not what you're supposed to do. And of course you

747
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: don't snitch, because you know what they get.

748
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: They get a stitch or two. From what I understand,

749
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, there's a story of an an artist

750
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: named Cope two who was still considered legendary, but he

751
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: was accused of snitching and just like overnight, his reputation

752
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: just went into the gutter.

753
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, I imagine.

754
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't take snitching lightly for sure. And then

755
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: there's other things too, Like we've basically been focusing on

756
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: spray paint for a good reason. I mean, it's the

757
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,479
Speaker 2: first medium, they're the most used medium, and then there's

758
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: markers and all that, But there's other stuff you can do.

759
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: That's considered graffiti too. You can get yourself some sort

760
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: of poster, get some wheat paste and stick it up

761
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: like an old timey hand bill that you might see. Yeah,

762
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: make stickers, sure, people make stickers. You can come up

763
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: with stencils like a real bank sye. And all of

764
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: these things have like the advantage of most of the

765
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: work being done at home in a studio, out of sight,

766
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: not in public, and then you can throw them up

767
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: pretty quickly and move on and not get caught. I

768
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: think that makes it a different form of graffiti in

769
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: that sense. But yeah, it's still I mean, it's still

770
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 2: street art at the very least.

771
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And then Lyvia dug up this

772
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 3: thing called reverse graffiti, which I had never heard of. Yeah,

773
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 3: and she used a very good example, like when you

774
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: use your finger to write wash me on a dusty car,

775
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 3: you're using in, you know, an inverse of something to

776
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 3: create an image. So a lot of times it's like

777
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 3: it's like a political statement maybe or maybe to call

778
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 3: attention to like pollution or the environment or something like that. Yeah,

779
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: and it's also one where they're saying like, hey, I'm

780
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: cleaning a surface technically not defacing anything, so come at me.

781
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they'll still just come along and be like, oh, no,

782
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: we're going to now we're going to clean this wall.

783
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: Now that you've done this, now you put something beautiful

784
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: up right. Yeah.

785
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: So, over the years, some people have really kind of

786
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: made the jump into like mega Mondo fame, like art

787
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: world fame, who started out as graffiti artists. One of

788
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: them was Jean Michelle Basquiat. A lot of people point

789
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: to him as a wildly successful artist who started out

790
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: in graffiti. Same o was his tag. He started out

791
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: in the late seventies with a friend named al Diaz.

792
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: By the eighties his paintings were some of the most

793
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: expensive in the art world, and he was friends with

794
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol and by nineteen eighty two we had a

795
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: solo exhibition. This is like a an art like a

796
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 2: graffiti artist. This is a huge leap for somebody to make.

797
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: And I think he might have been the first. I

798
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: think he came before Keith Hering.

799
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Basquiat had a pretty good indie movie made about him.

800
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: I think it was Jeffrey Wright that played him back

801
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 3: in the maybe nineties. It was really good. But yeah,

802
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: you mentioned Keith Hearing too, they were friends. We were

803
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: just in New York for fall break and the family

804
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: went to MoMA and the Whitney and we saw Bosquillot's

805
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: and obviously Warhols and some Keith Haring stuff in person,

806
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: which is always a thrill. And Keith Hearing, I know

807
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: we've talked about before, but he started drawing in chalk

808
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: on the like when they would take a advertisement down

809
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: on the subway walls, there would be this backboard there

810
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: and he would put his art up there and was

811
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 3: very famous initially, at least for the Radiant Baby was

812
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: kind of his tag. Yeah. And if you don't know

813
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: the Radiant Baby, like if you looked it up, you'd

814
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 3: probably seen it somewhere before. It's very famous.

815
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, it's like a crawling silhouette with like light

816
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 2: lines coming off of it.

817
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. And very sadly, Jean Michel Basquiat would pass from

818
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: a heroin to us in the late eighties, and Keith

819
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: Haring died from complications from AIDS and HIV. I believe

820
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety I read.

821
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: An interview with Basquiat. It must have been in like

822
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight because the interviewers it was like he

823
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: got up no less than two or three times to

824
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: go shoot Heroin in this rather short interview, like he

825
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: could not not do what he would have gotten sick

826
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: like that quickly. Jeez. There's also Shepherd Faerry is very

827
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: famous for his Andre the Giant has a posse stickers

828
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: that he made, and then also for his Hope poster

829
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: of Barack Obama during the two thousand and eight election.

830
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shepherd Fairy, good work, yep.

831
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: And we mentioned Banksy, right.

832
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean do we have to talk about Banksy?

833
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: No, there's a couple other ones that I want to

834
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: call out that are still working today.

835
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do that.

836
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: So Dondie White, he's an overlooked one. He was the

837
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: one who with Future of two thousand did that full

838
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: car called Break. But he hung out with Keith Herring

839
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: and Bosquillacht and Kenny Sharf in Future of two thousand

840
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: like he was a he never really made the leap

841
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: to the major art world. He was like a old

842
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 2: school underground artist.

843
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and did you mention Now you didn't mention Lady K.

844
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 3: Who'd you mention earlier?

845
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 2: Lady Pink?

846
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 3: Oh, Lady K. Lady K is different lady Kay is French.

847
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 3: I believe, right in Paris.

848
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: I believe that's where she was born, and she might

849
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: be working there still, either Paris or New York.

850
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, very cool stuff there too.

851
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also so check out her stuff, and

852
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 2: then check out Wren's R. E. N. S. Who's working

853
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: in Copenhagen. It is mind numbing how amazing this work is.

854
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: Like it just can't even imagine conceiving a lot of

855
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: a lot of it, let alone being good at it.

856
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful stuff. It's really like I'm looking

857
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 3: at some of them now, man, that's amazing.

858
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: And then there's one called kid Olt who as a

859
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: vandal actually like purposefully vandalizes luxury brand stores who have

860
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: collaborated with graffiti artists for their brands. They don't like that,

861
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: so they will like it's not really like pieces that

862
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: they're putting up. It's more like huge, huge vandalizations of

863
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: these stores.

864
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, Oh that's is that the one that's

865
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: like like stores that are kind of co opting graffiti

866
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 3: is like the cool thing. He'll go hit them. Yeah, okay,

867
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 3: kid Old, Yeah, but they're probably like great.

868
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sure. Oh wait, you mean the stores. Yeah,

869
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've heard that they don't like Kiddle

870
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: very much really, OK. And then lastly, the I want

871
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: to call out Apothecary, who never really got off the ground.

872
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 2: That's Umi's tag from when she got into this. She's

873
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 2: always been interested in bee boy culture, so of course

874
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: she came up with graffiti a graffiti tag, and I

875
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: think she realized, like fairly early on, this is way

876
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: too long Apothecary to use as a tag, So I

877
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: don't think I think it kind of petered out fairly

878
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: early on.

879
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to tell Emily that because uh, I mean,

880
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: obviously Apothecary is right at par ally, so yeah, for sure,

881
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: that's funny.

882
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: Uh, you got anything else?

883
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: I got nothing else. I'm gonna work on my my tag.

884
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come up with a tag and a font.

885
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah. Get busy on your handstyle yo. Yeah, since

886
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: uh we were just talking about handstyle again, I think

887
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 2: that means it's time for listener mail.

888
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. This is from Ben in Connecticut, who's been listening

889
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 3: for quite a while and recently heard our Selects episode

890
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 3: The Great Finger in the Wendy's Chili Caper. That's kind

891
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: that one that was incredible. We were commenting about the

892
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 3: way Letterman and Lenno covered that, and that Letterman was

893
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 3: was funnier. You know, no surprise there for me, at

894
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 3: least I assume you as well. Yeah uh, And then

895
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: Josh mentioned Leno's well known of cars to differentiate the

896
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 3: late night hosts. However, guys, David Letterman is well known

897
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: within the Indy car racing world as one of the

898
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: owners of Rahal Letterman Lanagan Racing. The team won the

899
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 3: Kart Indie Championship in nineteen ninety two, the year the

900
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 3: team was founded, and has won the Indy five hundred

901
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 3: twice with drivers Buddy Rice in two thousand and four

902
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: and Takuma Sato in twenty twenty. So while Leno may

903
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: be more well known for his love of automotive history

904
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: and tinkering with race cars, David Letterman is also well

905
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 3: known within the automotive world. And that is from Ben, Connecticut.

906
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 3: So I think the takeaway there is a Letterman owns

907
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 3: Leno once again.

908
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was who was that? Ben?

909
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: Yeah? And it's so low hanging through to bag on Lino.

910
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: So I don't think I'm original or cool for doing so.

911
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, but it's I mean you still mean it? Yeah, Yeah,

912
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: thanks a lot, Ben. That was in a very arcane

913
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: fact that I definitely hadn't heard. And I also just

914
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 2: realized that Arkane would be a great tag too. R Kane.

915
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 3: Well, you and you and you me went out together

916
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: and did this like Arcane and Apothecary together. They'd be like,

917
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: who is this new power couple in DVD?

918
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: This crew is amazing?

919
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: Wow?

920
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: What handstyle?

921
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: I know? And that'd say, guys, you got it just right.

922
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for doing that voice. You really sure

923
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: think you saved the episode.

924
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: I kind of stole that from Eddie Murphy when he

925
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: used to do the White Boys.

926
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 2: Is that who that was?

927
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a little bit.

928
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 2: I was gonna guess Johnny Carson on Helium doing George W.

929
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 3: Bush.

930
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, go back and listen, you'll be there. Oh my god,

931
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: Well I think that's it. Yes, Ben, Thank you very

932
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: much for that email. Ben, And if you want to

933
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: be like Ben and get in touch with us, we

934
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: love that kind of thing. You can send it off

935
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

936
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 3: Stuff Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

937
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts, my Heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

938
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.