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Speaker 1: for protecting our children. And climb stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. The search

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Speaker 1: is still on tonight for three year old Mariah Woods.

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Speaker 1: The girl was last seen by her mother her home

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Speaker 1: and on his locality. The mother told me she last

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Speaker 1: saw her daughter in the home at around eleven pm

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Speaker 1: when she checked on her. This is my world. This

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Speaker 1: is my angel. She said her boyfriend saw the taller

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Speaker 1: around midnight when he got up, and she says he

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Speaker 1: told her to go back to bed. Remains believed to

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Speaker 1: be the little girl were discovered along the highway. Now

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Speaker 1: there's an arrest thirty two year old girl, Camry, Mariah's

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Speaker 1: mother's boyfriend. No one is charged with causing her death.

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Speaker 1: Henry's charges only include concealing a death an obstruction of justice.

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Speaker 1: More charges likely to follow and maybe others charged. We

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Speaker 1: are not ruling anything up. The body of a three

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Speaker 1: year old little girl has been found faced down at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of a creek twenty five miles away from

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Speaker 1: her home, and right now more questions than answers as

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Speaker 1: the family prepares for a funeral, a funeral to be

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Speaker 1: held in the next hours for this beautiful little girl.

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Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace. This is crime stories and we want answers.

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Speaker 1: Joining me. Child advocate Ashley Wilcott, investigator, former Nashville p D.

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologists, and Amanda

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Speaker 1: TAM's reporter for the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Starting with you, Amanda, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm just curious as to what authorities mean

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Speaker 1: when they say they believe more charges are coming. Before

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Speaker 1: you answer that, Amanda, can you take it from the

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Speaker 1: beginning for people just joining us as the story of

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Speaker 1: Mariah Woods unfolds, Amanda, it all started when the mom

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Speaker 1: called one around six am. Yeah, absolutely, that's us, when

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Speaker 1: everybody was kind of alerted to the situation. She called

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Speaker 1: the sheriff's office around six am on Monday, November and

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office went out there, and a few hours later,

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Speaker 1: the Amber alert went out and all of the reporters

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Speaker 1: locally called into the story and we started trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out where she was. And at the whole thing

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Speaker 1: kind of snowballed from there, with new leads coming out,

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Speaker 1: press conferences throughout the week, all of us kind of

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Speaker 1: chasing down where law enforcement was searching for Mariah. At

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Speaker 1: a huge search party that came out, we had, I

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Speaker 1: believe they had more than a thousand people show up

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Speaker 1: to try to search the woods to help them, were

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Speaker 1: only able to have about seven hundred volunteers just because

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Speaker 1: of the search area that they had already scheduled out

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Speaker 1: for people to go out in. And then everything came

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Speaker 1: to halt this weekend when on Friday night, late Earl Kimry,

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Speaker 1: the mother Mariah's mother's boyfriend was arrested in connection with

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Speaker 1: her disappearance and her her remains were found about twenty

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Speaker 1: five miles from her house in Pender County, and we

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Speaker 1: learned at a press conference that she had been found

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Speaker 1: on Saturday night, and since then we've all just been

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Speaker 1: waiting for a murder charge to come out to see

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Speaker 1: if that I'm waiting on that something because her body

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Speaker 1: is still with a medical examiner right now, and we

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Speaker 1: as we wait for the funeral for this little child

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Speaker 1: to start, the fact that the funeral is about to

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Speaker 1: happen in the next couple of hours means that the

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Speaker 1: body has been released from the medical examiner, which means, ergo,

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Speaker 1: they have a cause of death or they're stymied and

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Speaker 1: they can't get a cause of death. Um into Tim's

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Speaker 1: joining us from the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina

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Speaker 1: to actually willcot the words that Amanda how she described

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Speaker 1: as true the way it all started spinning out. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious as to how they found the body, as she

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Speaker 1: will caught twenty five miles away and the fact that

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Speaker 1: they had to bring in the Fetteville, North Carolina dive

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Speaker 1: team tells me this was no shallow creek bed. This

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Speaker 1: child was thrown a too expanse of water deep enough

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Speaker 1: to hide her forever. But they found her one way

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Speaker 1: or another, by bloodhounds, by sent dogs, by aerial v

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Speaker 1: which I doubt, by a tip, which is more likely. Ashley,

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Speaker 1: what is the hold up after the explosive documents detailing

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Speaker 1: accusations that live in had been molesting the little girl

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Speaker 1: with mommy's knowledge. According to the documents, those are allegations.

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Speaker 1: What what? What are we waiting on? Ashley? You know

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Speaker 1: I have to say this, I don't. I'm certain law

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Speaker 1: enforcement is in the know of what the results of

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Speaker 1: the autopsy are and what information is out there about

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Speaker 1: what happened. I'm suspect that the issue is he's in jail.

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Speaker 1: He's got a million dollar bonds, so the kids not

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Speaker 1: getting out of jail in a good way, right, So

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Speaker 1: leave him there. In the meantime, it means that law

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Speaker 1: enforcement d A. Can be very deliberate to ensure that

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Speaker 1: they charged him with every single crime applies, and so

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Speaker 1: we're not looking only In my opinion, at potential murder charges.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure given the disclosure um that this man has

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Speaker 1: been sexually, abusing and torturing a three year old, there

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Speaker 1: are going to be many charges. So good for law

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Speaker 1: enforcement for being deliberate and the district attorney and everyone

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Speaker 1: else is likely involved to say, hey, what do we

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Speaker 1: need to charge him with. He's not going anywhere, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Thank god, he's in jail. He's not getting out of jail,

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Speaker 1: so let them take their time. Having said that, I

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Speaker 1: suspect we're going to get charges very soon. Let me

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Speaker 1: go to Vincent Hill, investigator, former Nashville p D. Vincent

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Speaker 1: I've got a question for you. Let's talk about what

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott just said that they're taking their time these allegations.

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, if you look at the child Protective Service

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Speaker 1: documents I believe were brought by the father who am

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Speaker 1: I've spoken with the many times Alex Woods. Now right now,

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Speaker 1: what cops could be doing her sibling are in protective

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Speaker 1: service custody. They could be interviewing the boys, the siblings

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Speaker 1: to find out if they knew of any molestation in

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Speaker 1: the home and if they can give any eyewitness account

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Speaker 1: and if they can that would be the grounds for

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Speaker 1: child molestation charge. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I'm sure investigators are

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Speaker 1: interviewing those two siblings. I believe ages five and nine

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Speaker 1: are ten uh to find out exactly what happened in

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Speaker 1: that home. And as we said on our previous show

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Speaker 1: this past Monday, as I said, you know the fact

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Speaker 1: that little Mariah was dumped into a bed of water,

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Speaker 1: it always told me that there was possibly some attempt

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Speaker 1: to watch away any DNA evidence to cover up any

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Speaker 1: sexual molestation. And now there's that claim, that allegation, So

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Speaker 1: I think the puzzles put together what happened inside that home.

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Speaker 1: And to Ashley's point, he's not going anywhere, so investigators

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Speaker 1: can take their time be very meticulous, so when they

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Speaker 1: charge him, it definitely sticks want to go to Dr

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, author and host of Investigation

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Speaker 1: Discoveries Fatal Vows. Dr Russell, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I always try not to put children on the stand

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Speaker 1: if I don't have to. But in this case, if

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Speaker 1: the state wants to prove these one station charges against

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Speaker 1: the live in earl Kimry, her body may not yield

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Speaker 1: any DNA evidence such as sparm or saliva. It's been

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Speaker 1: in a river bank that will leave us with eyewitness testimony,

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Speaker 1: possible outcry made at the time, maybe she told somebody,

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Speaker 1: Probably not. So how do you go about talking to

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Speaker 1: these two little boys? Remember old chimery behind bars right

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Speaker 1: now on a million dollar bond. I'm gonna go back

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Speaker 1: to ask you on that about how he could possibly

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Speaker 1: make bond. But Dr Brian, First of all, how do

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Speaker 1: you unlock the secrets these two sibling brothers may know

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Speaker 1: about what happened to Maria. Remember they were there that night.

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Speaker 1: They may be witness to a lot more than molestation. Well, yes,

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Speaker 1: I shuddered to think what those kids probably saw in

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Speaker 1: that house, because I can't imagine that what happened to

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Speaker 1: little Mariah is the first horrific thing that occurred in

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Speaker 1: that house. Having said that, I think there's kind of

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Speaker 1: a uh presumption that many people make that taking a

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Speaker 1: child into a police interview or into court and having

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Speaker 1: them talk about horrific things like that has got to

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Speaker 1: be traumatic and and additionally damaging to the child. And

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Speaker 1: I think I can understand why people think that and that,

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Speaker 1: and it's there's merit to that, But I also think

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Speaker 1: that there is some case by case basis that that

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Speaker 1: has to be has to be taken into account, because

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Speaker 1: I think there are cases in which it has actually

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Speaker 1: been quite helpful to people, even quite young people, to

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Speaker 1: be part of the justice, to be art of seeing

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Speaker 1: that the world does care about horrific things happening to

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Speaker 1: children and does want to do something to the perpetrator

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Speaker 1: and to make it right. So I wouldn't necessarily say

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Speaker 1: for sure that it would be detrimental to the kids

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Speaker 1: to have to talk to the cops and potentially even

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Speaker 1: testifying court. But like you, my preference would certainly be

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Speaker 1: that we don't have to risk it because there's just

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Speaker 1: such overwhelming evidence, or we ultimately get a guilty plea

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Well, I can tell you this,

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, I agree and disagree. I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: I was a witness in a murder file when my

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Speaker 1: fiance was martyred, and I still remember it to this day.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the few things. It's a blur. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember a whole lot during that time, but I

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Speaker 1: do remember taking the stand, and what happened to me

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Speaker 1: on the stand and in the courtroom really changed the

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Speaker 1: course of my life. So when you're a child, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it I don't think it would be

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Speaker 1: a good thing for you to have that memory in

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Speaker 1: your head that you testified in your little sister's murder

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Speaker 1: trial and had to detail her molestation in front of

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Speaker 1: a group of strangers. On the other hand, Dr Russell,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I testified. And I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: crime victims, and these boys are victims if they lived

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Speaker 1: in an abusive home if because I know, I did

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Speaker 1: what I could do to fight that crime, to fight

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Speaker 1: back against what happened to Keith. I went to court.

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Speaker 1: I waited day after day after day, and I went

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Speaker 1: in and went through the drama and the trauma of

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Speaker 1: testifying about his murder. And I will never forget it.

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Speaker 1: Did I like it? No? Would I do it again? Yes?

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Speaker 1: So as the years roll on, Ashley willcotch your the

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Speaker 1: child advocate. While it may be a horrible experience, you

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Speaker 1: know you did the right thing. You didn't sit back

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Speaker 1: and refused to testify or not show up. You win

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Speaker 1: in and did what you could do for Mariah, your sister.

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Speaker 1: So in that way it could be good for them. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course there's new. We'll not really new. Uh, there

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Speaker 1: is Supreme Court law that they could testify in a

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Speaker 1: different room and not have to see the jury, and

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Speaker 1: the jury would see them in real time on video.

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Speaker 1: I doubt that would happen. Actually, what about the possibility

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Speaker 1: of other suspects in this particular case, Let's talk specifically

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Speaker 1: about mother and um she knew. She had to have known.

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Speaker 1: There's no possible way in the small home in which

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Speaker 1: they lived, with all of the circumstances we've now learned

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Speaker 1: about with the child, with the disclosures by someone in

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Speaker 1: the home that this mother did not know. So I

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Speaker 1: think she too is a suspect, and I would have

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Speaker 1: to submit that I think law enforcement must be pretty

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Speaker 1: competent as to her current whereabouts, because I think, again

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Speaker 1: they're being liberate and taking their time to do this right,

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Speaker 1: which they've done since the beginning of this case, to

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Speaker 1: ensure that they know exactly what happened so they can

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Speaker 1: make all the charges against her and that they can

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Speaker 1: ensure those charges stick. On the scene is Amanda Tim's

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Speaker 1: report with the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina. Before

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Speaker 1: I go to her. For the possibility of other suspects

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Speaker 1: being involved. Take a listen to this race else that

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Speaker 1: is sound from Vigils too. Vigils already planned to honor

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Speaker 1: rians short life brought so brutally to an end, the

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Speaker 1: funeral happening in just hours. We are investigating every stability

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Speaker 1: in this case, and right now we are focusing on

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Speaker 1: the cause of death. What will it reveal? Also? Will

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Speaker 1: it point to a particular event? Will it point us

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Speaker 1: to in the right direction as to how she died,

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Speaker 1: not just where she was disposed of like trash? Will

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Speaker 1: it implicate another suspect? Did someone aid and a bet?

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Speaker 1: What do we know? And will her tiny body reveal

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Speaker 1: clues that we can use forensically as we wait for

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Speaker 1: additional charges and possibly another suspect to be named as

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Speaker 1: But there are corners of the Internet. I don't want

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Speaker 1: Tens joining us along with Dr Brian Russell from Investigation Discoveries,

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Speaker 1: Fatal Valves, Vincent Hill, investigator from Nashville p D, and

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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, very well known child advocate and lawyer. Amanda.

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Speaker 1: They keep saying that they're waiting to name other suspects potentially.

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Speaker 1: What's going on with the investigation. What do people expect

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Speaker 1: to Where is Mom during all this? I think yesterday

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Speaker 1: Mom was with Alex Wood's, the father. They were at

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Speaker 1: the funeral home planning Mariah's funeral. Most of the services

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Speaker 1: are kept private, but they do have the one public

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Speaker 1: visitation this evening. And besides that, the only in the

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Speaker 1: place that we have actually spotted her was when she

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Speaker 1: was escorted by a deputy back to the trailer and

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Speaker 1: this that's when they were taking the crime scene tape

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Speaker 1: down We had a reporter out there at the scene,

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Speaker 1: Mike mqugh and he went over to try to ask

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Speaker 1: her questions, but she declined to to speak with us. UM.

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Speaker 1: But besides that, I spoke with Sheriff Hans Miller yesterday.

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Speaker 1: He said that there there is a lot of information

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Speaker 1: that they're gathering right now, but they're not releasing it

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Speaker 1: at this time. I asked him if he felt that

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Speaker 1: there was there would be additional charges this week, like

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Speaker 1: potentially a murder charge in connection with her disappearance, and

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Speaker 1: he said at this time that it's too it's too

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Speaker 1: early for him to go into details with it, and

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Speaker 1: that UM, he wants to keep his investigator's eyes and

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Speaker 1: ears open for any possibilities to ask she Willcott, child

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Speaker 1: advocate and veteran lawyer Ashley, I thought about a lot

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Speaker 1: of permutations under which the mother could be charged. And again,

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Speaker 1: she's not a person of interest, She is not a suspect.

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Speaker 1: For all I know, she had no idea what was

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Speaker 1: allegedly going on in the home. But according to these documents, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: she didn't know it. Specifically says in one of the paragraphs,

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Speaker 1: the mom knew what was going on in the home.

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Speaker 1: I'm referring to the molestation. How would you or would

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Speaker 1: you pursue a felony murder charge against a mother if

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Speaker 1: she knew about molestation in the home. Well as as

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Speaker 1: we know so a murder charge a felony murder is

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Speaker 1: if the murder results of the commission of a felony,

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Speaker 1: and so in this particular case, the child molestation itself

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Speaker 1: and failure to protect could rise to the level of

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Speaker 1: a felony. So certainly I think there'd be sufficient evidence

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Speaker 1: to say it's a felony murder. The other thing I

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Speaker 1: have to add, Nancy, when you asked me about suspects. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I think we all can assume someone knew where the

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Speaker 1: body was dropped. Someone had to have known that, and

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Speaker 1: who was it? Was it the mother, was there, a friend,

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Speaker 1: was there? Somebody that you know, dad was the boyfriend

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Speaker 1: was buying his drugs from who knows who knew? But

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Speaker 1: someone had to have known where that body was, and

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Speaker 1: there had to have been a tip in order for

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Speaker 1: law enforcement to actually locate that body, so that there

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Speaker 1: may be a whole host of suspects. If the mother

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything and wasn't aware of that, I suspect

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Speaker 1: that there was somebody else who knew who told law enforcements.

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Speaker 1: So I think we're looking potentially really at a bevy

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Speaker 1: of suspects. You know, you're right, and as long as

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Speaker 1: people are talking, and that means that information is flowing,

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Speaker 1: which is going to add to search warrants and affidavits

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Speaker 1: and probable cause. Actually, do you expect for murder charges

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Speaker 1: to be added this week? I do, And well this week,

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Speaker 1: I'm not certain on that piece, but I absolutely they're

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Speaker 1: going to result. And again and I have to reiterate

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Speaker 1: a million dollar bond. I am so proud of the

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Speaker 1: court that heard the evidence to say a million dollar bond,

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Speaker 1: because in effect, for most Americans, that means he's not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to get out of jail, because

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a huge bond amount. So I think

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Speaker 1: the reality is because he is in jail and we

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Speaker 1: know he cannot commit any additional alleged offenses against anyone

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Speaker 1: else during this time period, then they have the luxury

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Speaker 1: my word not there's the luxury of doing a super

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Speaker 1: thorough investigation before additional charges are pressed. But I think

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Speaker 1: eventually we're absolutely looking at murder charges. Amanda Tim's reporter

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Speaker 1: Daily Needs Jackson, North Carolina, he was Kimrie to live

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Speaker 1: in was also charged with larceny stealing something how or

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Speaker 1: does it relate to the murder. That's one thing that

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Speaker 1: we're all wondering right now. There he allegedly went down

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Speaker 1: the road to and abandon how and stole to dressers.

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Speaker 1: We don't know where those dressers are or what connection

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Speaker 1: it has, except that it was. The alleged larceny was

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Speaker 1: on the same night that Mariah disappeared. That's the only

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Speaker 1: connection we've been able to make so far. To Vincent Hill,

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Speaker 1: investigator and former Nashville Police officer, Vincent, Let's talk a hypothetical.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about a hypothetical mom, not this mom. If

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Speaker 1: a mom knows that child molestation is going on at

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Speaker 1: home and then a child dies, in my mind, that

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Speaker 1: sets them up for a felony murder charge. A death

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Speaker 1: occurs during the commission of a felony What about this

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Speaker 1: theory I'm thinking about charging alternative, Vincent, If drugs were

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Speaker 1: being used in the home and the death occurs, would

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Speaker 1: that qualify under the law for a felony murder, especially

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Speaker 1: if the purp was using drugs at the time the

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Speaker 1: child dies. Yeah, Nancy, I would say it definitely would.

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, on North Carolina, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: legal not to report child abuse, so the mother didn't know,

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Speaker 1: then absolutely use that fault. But of course, if there

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Speaker 1: was drug use in the home and you're putting that

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Speaker 1: child in danger, that's aggravated child endangerment. And if something

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Speaker 1: occurred during the use of those drugs that led to

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Speaker 1: the Tolps death, and absolutely I think you definitely have

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Speaker 1: a feelingly murder case here. I do want to touch

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Speaker 1: on something that we just discussed about, the largny charge. Now,

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Speaker 1: a lot of times what investigators will do, because I've

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Speaker 1: done it myself, if I don't have enough evidence to

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Speaker 1: present to district attorney to get a certain charge, I

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Speaker 1: can charge that suspect with what I know will stick

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Speaker 1: to make sure he stays behind bars. And given his

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Speaker 1: criminal history from the past, he has other largeity charges

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Speaker 1: and a few other charges, you know, investigators probably wanted

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Speaker 1: to make these charges. Uh present these charges so that

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Speaker 1: they can at least hold them until they can build

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Speaker 1: that solid case for what we know it will eventually come.

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Speaker 1: The murder case for Mariah Woods. You know, to to

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, host of investigation Discoveries Fatal Vows.

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Speaker 1: Dr Russell, I want to talk about the possibility the

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Speaker 1: mom in this case is going to be charged right now. Again,

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Speaker 1: let me give this disclaimer. She is not a person

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Speaker 1: of interest. She has not been named a suspect. We're

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Speaker 1: going on the facts that we know that we have

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00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: learned from child protective services, formal documents and court documents.

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Speaker 1: When a mom knows a hypothetical mom knows that crimes

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Speaker 1: are being committed in the home, and then a child

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Speaker 1: turns up dead, that's devastating. Brian. I think most people

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Speaker 1: listening to us who have children can't imagine, can even

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Speaker 1: conceive of knowing that their children were being abused physically, sexually, emotionally, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and and standing by and enabling it, doing nothing to

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Speaker 1: protect those children. But unfortunately, I have to tell you

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00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: it happens all the time. And I'm gonna show you

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Speaker 1: here what a what a bad example. I am of

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Speaker 1: a Christian because I I hope there is a special

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Speaker 1: place in hell for parents who stand by and because

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00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: they're interested in their own maintaining their own relationships, their

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00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: own romantic life, sex life, whatever, they stand by and

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Speaker 1: let their children be victimized. Having said that, I don't

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Speaker 1: think there is a good enough special place in jail

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00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: oftentimes for those people, because you charge them with something

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Speaker 1: like even if it's aggravated child and dangerment, a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, uh, that's not the kind of if it's

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Speaker 1: a felony at all, it's not the kind of felony

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Speaker 1: that can can precipitate a felony murder charge. So I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping that at the very least, uh, in this case,

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Speaker 1: if it turns out that this mother knew and and

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Speaker 1: my if I had to bet, I would bet that

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Speaker 1: the answer to that is yes. I can't imagine that

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Speaker 1: horrific abuse was going on under that tiny roof without

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Speaker 1: her knowledge. That there's at least some kind of an

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00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: obstruction felony that can be charged, uh, you know, having

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Speaker 1: to do with the way that she, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: appeared presented herself as not knowing anything about what might

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Speaker 1: have happened to Maria during the initial stages of the investigation.

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Speaker 1: Because at least that kind of a conviction would keep

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Speaker 1: her out of the lives of those other kids until

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Speaker 1: their adults. You know, I want to go to Amanda

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Speaker 1: Tim's reporter with the Daily Knees of Jackson, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of research on where her

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Speaker 1: body was found. The I think it was Holly Shelter

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Speaker 1: Creek where Mariah's body was found. You know, just recently,

432
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: the North Carolina government, the n c w RC, was

433
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: seeking input on alligator an alligator management plan. I don't

434
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: know if you're familiar with that, but that just went

435
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: down because alligators had attacked UH pets around Lake Wakama

436
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: State Park, and I'm wondering about the lake itself. It's

437
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: Holly Shelter Lake, and it's easy enough to do. You

438
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: go online and you see all sorts of images of

439
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: Holly Shelter Lake, excuse me, Holly Shelter Creek, and it

440
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: looks straight out of one of those movies where you

441
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: would expect to see alligators because some of the shots

442
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: are aligned with tall trees, UH swampy areas. There's trees

443
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: out in the middle of the water. I'm just wondering,

444
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: based on what I know about the area and about

445
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: it was just this summer that n c w r

446
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: C was asking people for input on an alligator plan.

447
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: Was the intent to have this child's body totally disposed of,

448
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: with the body going down to the bottom of the

449
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: river and an alligator getting it. I mean, what can

450
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: you tell me, if anything, Amanda about the alligator plan

451
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: or alligators in that area. We'll definitely have alligators in

452
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: the area. We've had multiple fighting spightings of them around

453
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: the area since I started at Daily News a couple

454
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: of years ago, including some walking past the Hollyridge Police Station.

455
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: We've had one that was a very small one that

456
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: was sitting outside Jacksonville City Hall. And we've had multiple

457
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: sightings since Nee's ferry as well. So I can't speak

458
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: to whether that was the intention of having her body

459
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: in the creek, but I can say that we definitely

460
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: have alligators here. Well. You know, I can't tell you

461
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: how many times. Dr Brian Russell, you're the host of

462
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: Fatal Vows. I don't know if you read my last book,

463
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: but I was inspired by a threat I put on

464
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: my husband all the time, and I'm got stuff as

465
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: pockets full of hot dogs to take it for a

466
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: tour of Okay Finocchi, which is teeming with ali waters.

467
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: And in my last book, somebody actually did die being

468
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: pushed into a gator at a gator farm, pushed into

469
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: the water. And I've actually had cases Brian where victims

470
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: postmortem have been disposed of and swamps with the hope

471
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: that an alligator would destroy the evidence. Yeah, I actually

472
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: uh talked to some TV people in the past year

473
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: about potentially doing a show where we would test some

474
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: of these kinds of things, kind of in a MythBusters

475
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: type of a way about you know, what could that work?

476
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: Could it work with an adult, Maybe it could work

477
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: not with an adult, but with a child, and and

478
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: all kinds of various theories and ways that people have

479
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: come up with. It's crazy when you look at all

480
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: of the different ways that people have come up with

481
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: over human history to try to dispose of bodies. But

482
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: it's just so it's just so again and just additionally

483
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: disturbing to think about how a human being could look

484
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: at another human being as such a disposable object as

485
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: to be able to think about, well, maybe if I

486
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: threw this body into some water where there were alligators,

487
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be eaten up by

488
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: the alligators and then there won't be any evidence for

489
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: anybody to come after me, and just just that thought

490
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: process alone is probably inconceivable to those who are listening

491
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: right now, who are just driving around in their car

492
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: or sitting at home, going about their day at their office.

493
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: And I want to tell all of you that that's

494
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: a good thing. If you could relate to that kind

495
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: of thinking, I would be concerned about you, you know.

496
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: I got to Russell, I don't know how people like

497
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, MIT's a hill. May you, Amanda and so

498
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: many others we have here in our program do it.

499
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: When I was prosecuting Dr Brian Russell, there were times

500
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: when I left the courthouse I'd actually have to pull

501
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: off the road and cry. And the only way I

502
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: could get through a trial, you know, talking about the

503
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: unspeakable cruelty people inflict on each other. I guess I

504
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: learned to compartmentalize because in my mind I had to

505
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: get through the trial. I couldn't dare let a jury

506
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: see my eyes tear up, you know, because then I

507
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: would be weak compared to the fleet of defense attorneys

508
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: on the other side of the room. Uh. It's it's hard,

509
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: But when you actually think about it, Dr Russell, as

510
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: you were saying, about this little three year old girl,

511
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: and I will forever remember her and her peak outfits

512
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: with her tiara and her big one. She looked like

513
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: she had an actual bow you put on a gift,

514
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: like a big pink gift bow, the kind with all

515
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: the curly ends coming out stuck on her head. It's

516
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: just so beautiful and precious and innocent. And to think

517
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: that someone could throw her and gay her infested waters,

518
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: it's just really more when you think about the reality

519
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: of what has happened to this child. I don't know

520
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: why people don't revolt and march on the courthouse demanding

521
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: justice because I can hardly talk about it. But I

522
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: feel it's my duty because that's the only way we're

523
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 1: going to get justice as if we confront what happened

524
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: and hold. I've got to thank my partner. I have to.

525
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: I want to, because they are making our search for

526
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: justice possible. And one of our partners that I just

527
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: love is super Beats. My son first heard I was

528
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: involved with super Beats. He and mom, those are too costy,

529
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: their four dollars. He thought I was talking about this

530
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: really expensive set of ear phones. He's all about ear phones,

531
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: super Beats B e A t S. I'm like, no,

532
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: my love, no super beats b E E T s.

533
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: You know, speaking of the twins, wouldn't it be great

534
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: to have all the energy you wanted all day long?

535
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: So I could, you know, run with them all day.

536
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: But fatigue gets in the way even for everyday activities.

537
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're up at five thirty every morning

538
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: like I am, by about four o'clock, you're dragging. It

539
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: seems to get worse every year. And this is why

540
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: when you're twenty, your body has a natural ability to

541
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: maintain healthy circulation. By age forty, now, don't blow it,

542
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, But the twins think I'm eleven and

543
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: a half, don't mess it up. By the time your forty,

544
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: that ability has decreased by half and it leaves you

545
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: feeling tired. What can you do to get that circulation

546
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: back and fight fatigue? Drink super beats listen. Super Beats

547
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: promotes the body's own natural ability to produce health The

548
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: circulation increase energy and stamina all day long and only.

549
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: Super Beats is made from beats grown to very exacting

550
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: standards and then concentrated into super food crystals for us.

551
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: So if you want to increase your own natural energy,

552
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: call eight hundred five one six zero six eight three

553
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: or go to Nancy's Beats dot com in a n

554
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: C Y S B E E T S Nancy's Beats

555
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: dot Com. Catch this with a first order, you get

556
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: another free free thirty days supply of super Beats plus

557
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: these indicators trips to see how super beats are working

558
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: for you, plus free shipping. You're not going to get

559
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: that at the pharmacy. You're not gonna get that at

560
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: your your health food store. No. Eight hundred five one

561
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: six zero six eight three, or go to Nancy's Beats

562
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: dot com today. In fact, I need to drink about

563
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: a gallon right now because I need energy to get

564
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: me you through what I'm doing, And what I'm doing

565
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: is talking about a beautiful girl, Alan Duke with me,

566
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: Jackie here in the studio with me. You guys can

567
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: remember my twins at age three. You both have children

568
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: at age three. They are completely defenseless, completely defenseless. And

569
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Dr Brian Russell. You're

570
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: not only a lawyer and a psychologist, a host on

571
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: investigation Discovery of Fatal Vows, but Dr Russell I mean,

572
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: my natural instinct is to take care of the twins.

573
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: To think that someone knew or anyone knew this child

574
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: was being molested. Now, you've got to take the allegations

575
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: with a box of salt, because they're coming from a

576
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: dad that desperately wanted custody. But these documents are formal

577
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: child protective service documents. How could a mom or anybody

578
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: for that matter, stand by and let that happen? Dr

579
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: Brian him Well, I imagine if she ends up on

580
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: trial for something, the defense will say, oh, you know,

581
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: she was very frightened. She didn't know that the guy

582
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: was capable of this kind of behavior till he was

583
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: already under the roof and he had her constantly in

584
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: fear for her own life. I don't buy that for

585
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: a second. I think that most, uh, virtually every mother

586
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: who had the instinct that you have and that normal

587
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: mothers have to protect their kids above themselves, would have

588
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: uh done what it took to get their kids to

589
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: safety in that situation. And I think that it probably

590
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: indicates what I see most of the time in situations

591
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: like that, which is it's just if you think about it,

592
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: it's the height of narcissism to think about putting my

593
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: own relationship, my own romantic life, my own sex life,

594
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: whatever needs this person is meeting for me ahead of

595
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: my children. Let me just just quickly explain something to people.

596
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: If you are a single parent and you are thinking

597
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: about getting married again or bringing somebody else under your

598
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: roof to be a partner with you, the chances of

599
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: that working out are statistically awful. And we're not even

600
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: talking about crime here. We're just talking about the relationship

601
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: working out much worse than the average chance of a

602
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: relationship working out when one are both partners comes into it.

603
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: With kids, there are all kinds of additional complications. Being

604
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: a step parent or step parent figure is one of

605
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: the most difficult roles of human being can play. And

606
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: it is not a very far trip from the unhappy

607
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: marriage divorce place to the fatal vows place. It really isn't.

608
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: In these kinds of of cases, you just can't be

609
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: too careful about who you bring into the lives of

610
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: your kids. And what I would say to you is,

611
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: you've got to think about how is having this person

612
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: in our lives good for my kids and if and

613
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: just imagine coming before judge Judge Dr Brian Russell and

614
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: having to make that case. And if you can't make

615
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: a great case for how this person is good not

616
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: for you, I really don't care how good they are

617
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: for you for your kids, then you probably ought to

618
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: think about focusing on the kids and doing your dating

619
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: and resuming your romantic life after the kids are no

620
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: longer miners would be my advice. You know, I want

621
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: to go into well Point, well taken. I want to

622
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: go to Vincent Hill, investigator, former Nationale p p D Vincent.

623
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: How does how do police or sheriffs coordinate with the

624
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: d A as we wait for Mariah's funeral to begin?

625
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: That signals to me the medical examiner has released her

626
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: body and should no cause of death. How are police

627
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: working right now with the d A to figure out

628
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: what charges and whether they're going to be other suspects? Well, Nancy,

629
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: clearly they're going off what the medical examiner said was

630
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: the cause of death, which I would surmise to be homicide.

631
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: You know, obviously Mariah did not walk twenty five and

632
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: dive into this bed of water. Uh So of course

633
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: they're going to take that into consideration. They're going to

634
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: take witness statements from inside the home which could lead

635
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: to other charges, you know, the aiding and abetting, faire

636
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: to protect, favor to report, uh, the aggravated child neglect,

637
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: the aggravated child and endangerment. Uh. So it's going to

638
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: rely a lot on to your point. The body has

639
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: been released, so a cause of death has been determined.

640
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: So that's when investigators are relating to the DA Right now,

641
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: we are gathering all the information that we know of,

642
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: including child protective service documents, search warrants. There's a lot.

643
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on now. We know that he

644
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: live in Earl Camery, has just appeared in court. We

645
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: also know, and this is to Amanda, Tim's reporter with

646
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: the Daily Knees of Jacksonville, North Carolina, NA, that his

647
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: lawyer is Walter Paramore. Walter Paramore, and Paramore has apparently

648
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: handled a lot of high profile cases. What do you

649
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: know about Walter Paramore. I know that he's great in

650
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: the courtroom. He's a fantastic defense attorney. Of seeing him

651
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: on numerous, as you said, high profile cases here in

652
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: Onslow County, and he knows, he knows what he's doing. Now,

653
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: when you say he's great in the courtroom, and he

654
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: watched him. What do you mean by that that he's

655
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: great in the courtroom? What I mean by that is

656
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: that he speaks eloquently. He's very intelligent in the way

657
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: that he goes about his cases. He knows what he's

658
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: doing from the defense side. Um. I believe he may

659
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: have previously worked for the prosecution as well. UM. So

660
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: he has a background on both sides of the courtroom,

661
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: and he just the way that he presents himself and

662
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: presents the cases is very intelligent in the courtroom. Well,

663
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: he's handled a number of high profile cases. Is not

664
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: his first time at the rodeo. He knows what he's doing.

665
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, uh, Dr Brian Russell, not only psychologist

666
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: but lawyer. You know Camery cannot afford paramore, So how

667
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: is this happening? How is paramore on this case? Well,

668
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: as uh, I know you know this, but but our

669
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: viewers may be interested to know that in a lot

670
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: of jurisdictions, especially if it's a a big charge like murder,

671
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the case that an indigent defendant just

672
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: gets a public defender who is a full time public defender. Now,

673
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: and that is not to say that full time public defenders,

674
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: uh in many cases are not terrific defense attorneys, because

675
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: they certainly can be. But in many jurisdictions, attorneys who

676
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 1: are in private practice can be appointed by the court

677
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: by the state to take a case that especially as

678
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: it is a high stakes case like this, and have

679
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: their fees be paid by the state. So so think

680
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: about that, folks in North Carolina, that that you are

681
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: going to be probably paying the bill for this high priced,

682
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: high profile defense attorney. Well, this is what I know.

683
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: He practices in North Carolina, and it says that he

684
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: has been practicing criminal law as a specialist since nineteen

685
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: Now I don't know what that means as a specialist because, um,

686
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's self described specialists like I'm

687
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: a criminal lawyer, a criminal prosecutor, uh Dr Brian Russell.

688
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't do wheels and slip and falls and I

689
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: never have. Um how and when you have a civil lawyer,

690
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: you don't want your grandma's uh probate lawyer handling your

691
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: murder one trial or your drug trial. Uh No, that

692
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: would be like asking a foot doctor to come in

693
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: and perform heart surgery, explained Dr Brian well, that's right.

694
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: You you don't if you think that you might have

695
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: a heart uh, palpitation or something, the podiatrist is not

696
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: the person probably to ask about that. And so you do.

697
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: Just like I always tell people when they're talking about,

698
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, needing a surgery or something, I said, you know,

699
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: you want to go to the person who has done

700
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: that surgery a thousand times, ten thousand times. And so

701
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: I think the same holds true here. And I think

702
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: also what I would add to my to my previous

703
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: answer is that there are cases in which high profile

704
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: defense attorneys we saw this with the Zimmerman case in Florida,

705
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: will come forward and want to take on these cases

706
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: for a greatly reduced fee or potentially sometimes even a

707
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: waived fee because of the publicity that it gives to

708
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: their practice. Back to Amanda Tim's report with the Daily

709
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: Needs with Jacksonville, North Carolina, Amanda has the mom lawyered

710
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: up yet not as far as we've been able to confirm.

711
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: Interesting back to you, Dr Brian Russell. The fact that

712
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: the mom has not gotten a defense lawyer, it looks

713
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: good for her. She doesn't think she needs a defense lawyer, well,

714
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: potentially or it may just be that she hasn't been

715
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: charged with anything, and you've got to be charged with

716
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: something before you can get a public defender appointed. That's true,

717
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: but I guess there's a whole line of lawyers that

718
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: we would be willing to step in Brian to represent

719
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: the mom just for the notoriety of it. Probably so

720
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: to Amanda Tim's we know that the funeral is happening

721
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: in the next hours. That means that the natural father,

722
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: the bio father, Alex Woods, is going to be there

723
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: with the mom, Christie, who was in the home many

724
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: people believe at the time Mariah was killed because if

725
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: you look at search, aren't Earl Kimbery has charged with

726
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: taking the child's body to be disposed off from the home,

727
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: which means, you know, if you reason it out, she

728
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: was killed in the home. So he's gonna be there

729
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: in the funeral home with the mom who many people

730
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,479
Speaker 1: believe were in the home when the daughter was killed.

731
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: Amanda gas Man from Minderstanding, they are all going to

732
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: be in there together for the public visitation this evening.

733
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: They've been working together trying to nail down all of

734
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: the funeral arrangements together. It was a struggle from what

735
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: Alex was saying yesterday when I spoke with him one

736
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: on one, But it seems that they did come to

737
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: a resolution on everything yesterday. Um. I'm just thinking about this,

738
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: Dr Russell, about what Alex Woods is going through, because

739
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: in his mind, he makes it very clear in these

740
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: court documents that the mom knew the baby was being

741
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: listed and that there are witnesses to it. That is

742
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: what he says. Again, she's not a person of interest,

743
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 1: she's not been named to suspect, but he is there

744
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: in this setting with this woman, Dr Russell, Do we

745
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: know Nancy whether or not he is also the father

746
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: of the other children in the house. Yes, I think

747
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: he is of the two of the two boys. Because

748
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: one of the things that interests me is that apparently

749
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: those other children are now in the custody of Child

750
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: Protective Services, and I just wonder why they are not

751
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: with him, and maybe there's a great reason for that,

752
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: but it makes me think that the entire situation is

753
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: probably complicated. It's probably unfortunate in in multiple ways. Would

754
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: be my guests Having said that, absolutely, I think that

755
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: there would be tremendous feelings of, uh, certainly anger at

756
00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: the mother and the boyfriend who's accused here of potentially

757
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: also feelings of tremendous guilt for having not been able

758
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: to do more to protect this this little girl, uh,

759
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: the deceased Maria. Uh. So yes, I imagined that the

760
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: father is going through all kinds of hell at this point.

761
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: The children, the siblings are with the grandmother, so they're

762
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: not in some foster care situation. Uh, and the father

763
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: can see them. I'd like to find out more about

764
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: it too. This is what I know. In the last hours.

765
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: Camry that live in accused of disposing of a body

766
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: and withholding information from North Carolina law enforcement about Mariah's death,

767
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: said absolutely nothing in court. Now there was a move

768
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: of foot to reduce his bond, but the judge maintained

769
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: thirty two year old Earl Camrays bond at one million dollars.

770
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 1: Now to make bond on that, you have to get

771
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: a bonding company to help you, and you have to

772
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: put up at least ten percent. That be a hundred

773
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. He'd have to come up with either cash

774
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: or collateral to get out again. Kimrie officially charged with

775
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: hiding three year old Mariah's body knowing she did not

776
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: die of quote natural causes and disposing of it right now.

777
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: Prosecutors not releasing any new details, but a high profile lawyer,

778
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: Walter Paramore also said nothing. Now, that's hard for a

779
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: lawyer to do. Brian Russell to keep his yap shut.

780
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to probably the skill and well,

781
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: and that just the experience of that attorney to know

782
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: that the facts, so far as we know them, look

783
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: very bad for the client, and so probably and we

784
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: don't probably have all of the charges yet that are coming,

785
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: would be my guests, and so that was probably exactly

786
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 1: the thing to do from a defense standpoint. And it's

787
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 1: one of those things where I imagine most people listening

788
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: if they had to pick aside in this case, would

789
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: be uh, you know, pro prosecution, do you have to

790
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: keep in mind that uh, you know, in situations like this,

791
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: we have to say allegedly and he's not. He's innocent

792
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: until proven guilty, and he's entitled to a defense and

793
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: all of that. Right now, we are waiting to discover

794
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: whether additional suspects are going to be named and additional

795
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: charges filed. I want you to hear something. I want

796
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: you to hear as we ponder whether another person will

797
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: be named as a party to this crime. Take a

798
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: listen to Mariah's mother. Please bring her back and I

799
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: love her. Do anything that I can't, whatever you want.

800
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Spreager Hall, please savee sound. She's my baby, She's by everything.

801
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: What does she means to you and your family in

802
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: this community? She's like an angel. I have my twos

803
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: tied and burnt on each side. I felt out I

804
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: was pregnant with her, so we call her our little angel.

805
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: She's got the personality of make you laugh. She's goofy, outgoing, talkative.

806
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: She knows how to make your day brighter. A lot

807
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: to this community and people that are here looking for her,

808
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: love her to death. What would it means to you

809
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: to see her face again? Everything in the world, just

810
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: to be able to touch her and hold her, not

811
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: let her go again, to give anything tacked onto the

812
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: County sheriff Department please and let us know. And if

813
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: whoever has her, please I'm begging you bring her home safe.

814
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: I want to pause and thank our partners making today's

815
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: program possible. One eight hundred Dentist, if you're like ever

816
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817
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820
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821
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822
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823
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824
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825
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826
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828
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829
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830
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831
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,920
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836
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837
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: giving people a beautiful smile at an awesome price, and

838
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: thank you for being our partner Today, as we wait

839
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: for baby Maria's funeral to commence, we also are waiting

840
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: for additional charges and suspects potentially to be named. Nancy

841
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,