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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren Elizabeth, Elizabeth, you know it's ridiculous, Elizabeth. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I have something for you. You ready. I found the

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Speaker 3: rare instance of the good application of crystal meth amphetamine.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, of course he would.

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Speaker 3: So. On March eighteenth, nineteen forty four, there was this

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Speaker 3: young man we'll just call him Zaren, but he wasn't.

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Speaker 3: But it was a twenty seven year old named i'm

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Speaker 3: O Kavunin. Okay, hey, this dude, this cat he was.

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Speaker 3: He was in the he was the Finnish ski unit, right,

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Speaker 3: and this is World War Two. He's a combatant. He's

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Speaker 3: up there on Lapland in Finland, right, yeah, the northernmost region, real,

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Speaker 3: real tough. He's out there and he gets attacked by

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Speaker 3: superior Soviet forces. So he's forced to retreat through deep snow.

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Speaker 3: So he found finds that he is exhausted. What's he do.

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Speaker 3: He takes a bunch of crystal meth Yes, and he

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Speaker 3: has just one pills. And that one pill is like,

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Speaker 3: I was sorry he didn't have one pill. He had

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Speaker 3: thirty pills. Normally you take one hill he takes all

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Speaker 3: thirty pills. Right, so he's got like a ton of.

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Speaker 2: Energy and a heart attack. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He starts going, he goes a sixty two miles, it's

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Speaker 3: one hundred kilometers. He's high alone, no food, nothing, just

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Speaker 3: because you didn't even have a gun or ammunition at

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Speaker 3: this point, he's just skiing looking yeah exactly. So he

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Speaker 3: gets blown up by a land mine at some point,

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Speaker 3: keeps going oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The land mine goes on.

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Speaker 3: I don't know like how badly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, everything wasne exploded.

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Speaker 3: I imagine he gets propelled for Yeah, I caught it,

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Speaker 3: Jesus lizard, I'll butt the landmine. Yeah. No. So he

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Speaker 3: manages to make it back to finish territory. He weighed

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Speaker 3: only ninety four pounds when he gets back like he left,

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Speaker 3: he had his heart rate was two hundred beats per minute,

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Speaker 3: which is like right up there around like heart attack range.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. So I thought, well, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: That is plenty ridiculous. Well done. You do you want

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Speaker 2: to know what else is ridiculous? Being attractive while being unattractive?

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Speaker 3: Oh, tell me my life story. Go on.

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Speaker 2: This is ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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Speaker 2: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent ridiculous. Damn right, it's a tale as

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Speaker 2: old as time, a con as old as crime. You

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Speaker 2: like that a person claims to be wealthy, like filthy rich. Actually,

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Speaker 2: let's play this out instead of me just explaining it, Zaren.

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Speaker 2: In this scenario, I'm super rich, Okay, right?

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Speaker 3: Can I be Richie rich?

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Speaker 2: Well? You can tell that I'm rich because I just

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Speaker 2: told you that I summer with Jeff Bezos. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're making those weird like polyester shirts. Yeah, like I

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Speaker 2: just got back from a fabulous costume partlready at Bernard

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Speaker 2: Arno's compound in Tuscany.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard of him.

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Speaker 2: I taught I taught Zuckerberg how to serve. Oh lord right,

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Speaker 2: I rejected Warren Buffett's advances, but we're still friends. Like,

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Speaker 2: I'm that rich. If you need me, I'll be staying

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Speaker 2: at the Penthouse suite at the Ritz Carlton.

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Speaker 3: You're fighting Paul Allen over shrimp.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you can tell that I'm there because my maybox

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Speaker 2: will be part by in front.

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Speaker 3: Uh part next to Rick Ross's.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know I'm but I took you out to

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Speaker 2: lunch at Quince in San Francisco last week. Been a

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Speaker 2: wonderful time, right, amazing. George Lucas was so gracious to

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Speaker 2: stop by the table and say hello.

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Speaker 3: So clever too.

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Speaker 2: He complimented me on my Laurel piano jacket, Piana jacket.

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Speaker 3: He made that weird face and I told him I

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Speaker 3: love the star Trek.

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Speaker 2: That's true, it was weird.

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Speaker 3: I was like, come on, maybe cool.

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Speaker 2: But when he complimented my Laurel Piana jacket. You looked

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Speaker 2: it up later and you saw that it's over sixteen

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars for the jacket.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't want to talk about that. I know

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Speaker 3: that was amazing.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing, though, Aaron, I'm in a bit of

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Speaker 2: a spot.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hit me.

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Speaker 2: It's quite embarrassing really. See. My accountant was moving some

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Speaker 2: funds around for me, doing the old Kman shuffle. All

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Speaker 2: of my liquid funds were put into my real estate

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Speaker 2: investment holdings. I can't access my Swiss accounts because it's

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Speaker 2: a holiday there as well.

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Speaker 3: You're not liquid right now. I know how this goes.

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Speaker 2: It's such a mess, a headache. I just wish someone

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Speaker 2: could front me like a one hundred thousand dollars to hold

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Speaker 2: me over until the banks open up, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, tomorrow the weekend, of course, and then.

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Speaker 2: We can get the whole account thing sorted out naturally.

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Speaker 2: What's that, Saren? In this scenario, you're not wealthy, but

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Speaker 2: you're on your way there.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, look at me.

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Speaker 2: You're a summer driver, You're you're a social climber. Yeah

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Speaker 2: that too, and love to get in with all my

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Speaker 2: fabulously rich and famous pals.

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Speaker 3: I definitely would. I would want to get to know them.

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Speaker 2: I can help you.

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Speaker 3: I want to take a swing of Paul Allen over

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Speaker 3: the shrimp tear it is.

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Speaker 2: I can help you. You can help me, but you

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Speaker 2: have to help me.

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Speaker 3: Of course. What can I do to help you?

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Speaker 2: Front me one hundred thousand dollars and I'll pay you

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Speaker 2: back two hundred thousand dollars next week.

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Speaker 3: What a deal?

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Speaker 2: Right? That's an invests It done, and then like the

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Speaker 2: two of us will just jet off to a relaxing

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Speaker 2: holiday at the Saint Regis Borabora.

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Speaker 3: Why not let's go to Saint Kitts. I prefer this.

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Speaker 2: Staff there are so attentive though.

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Speaker 3: Oh that is true and discreet. If you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm very important, So.

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Speaker 2: You at one hundred percent give me my money, right.

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Speaker 3: Probably one hundred and ten percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, I've told you all about my adventures with

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Speaker 2: the world's billionaires. But that's a pack of lies. What

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Speaker 2: and I told you I stay at the Ritz, but

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Speaker 2: I don't what it's not my maybock out in front, No,

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Speaker 2: it's Rick Ross's. I just come in through the side

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Speaker 2: entrance and I meet people in the lobby. And the

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Speaker 2: last dupe I had fronted me cash that paid for

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Speaker 2: my understated luxury clothes and accessories, as well as that

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Speaker 2: lunch we had at quins.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, you're telling me you're basically just a

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Speaker 3: Rockford Files plot.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you know what else I'm going to tell you.

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Speaker 2: We're never going to bora bora.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, a terrible day.

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Speaker 2: And here's another thing. Is Bruce Springsteen would say I

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Speaker 2: ain't a beauty, but yeahm all right. The truth is

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Speaker 2: in this scenario, I'm not the best looking goal. But

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Speaker 2: for both men and women, money can make someone very

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Speaker 2: attractive intoxicating. So while looks wise, you'd be out of

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Speaker 2: my league, you're dying to get on my level when

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Speaker 2: it comes to wealth and power.

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Speaker 3: Totally, I'm a destriver, right a climb.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, a con is oldest crime. Yes, we've

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Speaker 2: seen this before.

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Speaker 3: It's the second oldest crime.

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Speaker 2: But today I want to tell you about a woman

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Speaker 2: who was pretty great at this. Okay, she wasn't the

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Speaker 2: most attractive gal, but that didn't stop her from getting

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Speaker 2: men to do her bidding and line her pockets. Her name,

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Speaker 2: it's maliffluous, Okay. Bertha Hayman.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 2: It's spelled like Hayman.

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Speaker 3: Yoh. That's like there in wrestling there is a promoter

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Speaker 3: named Paul Hayman. He spells it exactly the same way,

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Speaker 3: and he tells one of my favorite things about Buck.

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Speaker 3: The guy's amazing. He's like, you know, she's his great grandmother.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Amman family. She was also known as Bertha Slashinger,

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Speaker 2: Bertha Slashinger, Bertha Stanley, but she was known to most,

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Speaker 2: especially law enforcement, is big birth. Oh snap, big birthday.

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Speaker 3: This was like before the ships, like, she's the big

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Speaker 3: birth Sure. In the golf club there.

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Speaker 2: It is so Bertha Hayman, big Bertha. She was born

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Speaker 2: Bertha Slashinger in eighteen fifty one in Koblin, Prussia, which

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Speaker 2: I am not saying correctly, but I can say Prussia, right, I.

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Speaker 3: Say it sounded like Prussia to me.

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Speaker 2: Sure in Russia day Poland?

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Speaker 3: Oh that bar okay?

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Speaker 2: Yes. So Hayman and her husband, Friedrich Carko, they immigrated

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Speaker 2: to New York City. So at that point she's I

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Speaker 2: guess you know, Bertha Cargo. In eighteen sixty seven she

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Speaker 2: met a man named Henry Brandt. He does that matter, no,

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Speaker 2: but he was a saloon keeper in the Bowery, so

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Speaker 2: that's cool. Eighteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 3: He's just like got stories.

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Speaker 2: He's got those like garters on his own arm braces

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Speaker 2: and a fun mustard with the wax. He's some mixed lologist.

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Speaker 3: He's got one of those bowler caps.

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Speaker 2: He looks like it's a fixie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like in the like a photo in the

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Speaker 3: beginning of Cheers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, complete lately. She canned him out a two hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: Good for her, that's almost six thousand dollars today.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: A bartender, And of course she never paid him back.

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Speaker 2: Soon after this whole scam with Brent, she and her

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Speaker 2: husband moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Milau. She divorced her husband there,

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Speaker 2: and then she married a traveling suspender salesman. Get out,

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Speaker 2: why don't we have traveling Hello, ma'am, your husband seems

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Speaker 2: to be at work. Can I interest you in a

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Speaker 2: pair of suspenders?

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Speaker 3: Ma'am? Do your husband's pants fall down all the time

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Speaker 3: when you're a public? Does he marriage you at church functions?

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Speaker 2: Is he a belt embracest guy? Let's get rid of

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Speaker 2: the beat.

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Speaker 3: Does he would like to have something around his midsection

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Speaker 3: hoisting him up?

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Speaker 2: He's like, goes to my back and he gets for

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Speaker 2: the barrels.

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Speaker 3: It's just stay hanging out there. A great number.

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Speaker 2: Traveling suspender salesman. His name John Hayman. Oh, so that's

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Speaker 2: where she got that last name. She picked up that

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Speaker 2: last name. He bailed on her.

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Speaker 3: She didn't marry him, she did.

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Speaker 2: She divorced the what's his name, Carco Carco, and she

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Speaker 2: married hey Man and then he bailed. He was like,

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Speaker 2: whatever I'm and she's like, guess what I am? Taking

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Speaker 2: your name hey Man now. Eighteen eighty one, this is

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Speaker 2: what the Buffalo Evening News wrote about her quote. She

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Speaker 2: had what is described by the French as a belle

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Speaker 2: figure was a very attractive person and took your fancy

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Speaker 2: the moment she fixed her big brown, staglike eyes upon you.

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Speaker 2: Her wavy hair is soft and black, and her hands

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Speaker 2: are white, taper fingered, and philbert nailed. She sat quietly

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Speaker 2: with her dress open at the neck, revealing a shapely

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Speaker 2: throat of a complexion creamy is the inner petals of

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Speaker 2: a lily, and her arms bare to the elbows, soft

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Speaker 2: and dimpled.

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Speaker 3: I'm worried.

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Speaker 2: What's evening.

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Speaker 3: Gets like? A couple drinks in him?

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Speaker 2: Was like, all right, this story, now hold on, though.

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Speaker 2: Here's how the San Francisco Examiner described her Okay quote.

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Speaker 2: A sight of Bertha is necessary to let one perceive

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Speaker 2: how a woman with so much flesh, and whose appearance

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Speaker 2: has been so often referred to as homely, could attract

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Speaker 2: the attention and win the confidence of men. Her power

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Speaker 2: lies in her eyes. They are brown, but of such

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Speaker 2: a dark color they are bright enough to light up

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Speaker 2: her entire countenance. She's not handsome, but she is not

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Speaker 2: bad looking either, and accounts that have been given of

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Speaker 2: her visage have been overdrawn. There is not a tailor's

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Speaker 2: measure in the town that can encompass her ample form.

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Speaker 2: Anyone with an eye for distances can readily perceive that

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Speaker 2: the lady has passed her hugging days. Oh but to

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Speaker 2: one who has such a contempt for men as she,

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Speaker 2: this can occasion little regret. Bertha's massiveness in repose is

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Speaker 2: not as effective as when she stands up. One finds

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Speaker 2: himself involuntarily calculating whether more cloth is needed for the

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Speaker 2: width than for the length of her garments. When she's

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Speaker 2: on her feet, when she's moved to the bath, which

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Speaker 2: the prison officials kindly let her have in the receiving hospital,

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Speaker 2: the impressive contours of her person were studied by everyone

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Speaker 2: in the jail. Yet she can carry herself without any

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Speaker 2: unusual amount of effort.

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Speaker 3: Jesus right. I mean, like, I would love to see

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Speaker 3: the I'm assuming male journalists who wrote this and then

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Speaker 3: do that the same thing, Like he had I so

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Speaker 3: small and pinched, then moles would be jealous of their size.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like that's how it works, ess, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the guy is just slaughtering. I like the buffalo version.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was awfully nice.

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Speaker 2: Well, she she stood five foot four.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and that's the reality.

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Speaker 2: That's the reality, and she weighed between two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty and three hundred pounds okay, depending on the reports,

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Speaker 2: Based on the sketches of her and the many many

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Speaker 2: newspaper articles around about her, I would describe her as rubenesque, okay.

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Speaker 3: And so she's a full figure, go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's not particularly fine featured, but she's not ugly.

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Speaker 2: You know, she's not hideous. This is what she had

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Speaker 2: to say.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 2: I take no pride in overveiling a fool. The moment

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Speaker 2: I discover a man's a fool, I let him drop.

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Speaker 2: But I delight in getting into the confidence and pockets

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Speaker 2: of men who think they can't be skinned. It ministers

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Speaker 2: to my intellectual pride.

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Speaker 3: Minister, my intellectual pride.

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Speaker 2: Care what she looks like? She runs circles around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So after the suspender salesman left her, Bertha moved back

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Speaker 2: to New York and she lived in boarding houses. And

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Speaker 2: that's where she would steal jewelry and forged checks in

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Speaker 2: boarding house, just from the other.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't think they wouldn't be a lot to steal it.

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Speaker 3: If you're doing small time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably. If you're in this boarding house, you've

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Speaker 2: got like your your possessions.

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Speaker 3: You're getting traveling well.

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Speaker 2: And she also would like kind of make her way

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Speaker 2: into people's homes.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I would think. You go from a

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Speaker 3: boarding house and you break into the local houses and

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Speaker 3: then leave.

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Speaker 2: And so on her way. She gets back to New York,

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Speaker 2: runs into Harry Brandt, the bartender.

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Speaker 3: Okay, the first Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Guess where I've been. I've been in Milwaukee and I

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Speaker 2: just found out that I inherited eight million dollars. That's

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Speaker 2: the equivalent of two hundred and thirty eight million dollars

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Speaker 2: to day.

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Speaker 3: Pick a number, then.

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Speaker 2: Hey, check me out. So I'm coming back to New York.

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Speaker 2: I just need a float until this inheritance money comes through.

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Speaker 3: Any reason to believe that she came from money.

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Speaker 2: No, Okay, she's just been surprised. She's confident. So he

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Speaker 2: gives her nine hundred and sixty bucks, which is like

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Speaker 2: twenty nine thousand dollars. Yeah, and that's a pittance if

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Speaker 2: you think she's going to break you off part of

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Speaker 2: almost a quarter of a billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: Sure, but it's a lot if it's all your money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she didn't pay him back last time, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So she used the same line on a Frenchman named

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Speaker 2: Edward Perrin. She said she'd pay him two thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: a year to manage this like soon to be enormous

302
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Speaker 2: state of hers and he was into it because he

303
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 2: was only making eighty dollars a month as a pullman

304
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Speaker 2: conductor at the time.

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Speaker 3: And he thought, of course I should be selected to

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Speaker 3: manage qualify. Yeah, multimillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: He quits his job and he's like, getting ready to

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Speaker 2: start working for Bertha's, slicking.

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Speaker 3: His hair down by new hats.

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Speaker 2: Bertha starts borrowing money from him to pay small debts.

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Speaker 2: She's like, we're still waiting for the wire transfer, Like,

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Speaker 2: can I just take whatever five dollars you have left?

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Speaker 2: He wound up giving her more than one thousand dollars

314
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Speaker 2: before he was like, can I get paid for this job?

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Speaker 2: I've just been paying you. Well, I guess I'll pay

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Speaker 2: you back as soon as the inheritance is transferred. And

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Speaker 2: then the penny finally drops for him and he realizes

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Speaker 2: he's never getting paid back, so he goes to the cops.

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Speaker 2: Bertha gets arrested, but she skips bail and takes off

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Speaker 2: for Canada and a friend of mine who's in AA.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to give a name because it's anonymous.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: He told me once that they have this thing about

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Speaker 2: geographical cures, and it's basically, if you move, your problems

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Speaker 2: move with you. Oh that's something that's always kind of

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Speaker 2: stuck with me, Like there's no geographical cure to your problem.

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Speaker 3: I would have thought that there would be.

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Speaker 2: You can't outrun yourself or your and your behaviors don't

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Speaker 2: change based on the scenery, Like the.

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Speaker 3: Change of scenery doesn't allow you to change your behavior, right, huh.

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Speaker 2: So you got to get fixed.

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Speaker 3: If you know, fixed wherever you are outside in doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think that's like an interesting concept.

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Speaker 2: But this is true of criminals too. So in London, Ontario,

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Speaker 2: Bertha got herself arrested. So she didn't think I'm going

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Speaker 2: to become this new woman in cam She just kept

337
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Speaker 2: it up. She canned a businessman out of a couple

338
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Speaker 2: hundred bucks, and then she tried to escape on a

339
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Speaker 2: train but was caught and then deported to New York

340
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Speaker 2: City and there she was wanted for like a number

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Speaker 2: of thefts because they had started racking up. After she

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Speaker 2: got arrested, she extradited to Faith Justice exactly so. She

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Speaker 2: was found guilty in eighteen eighty one and got two

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Speaker 2: years in prison at Blackwell's Island what is now Roosevelt Island,

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Speaker 2: right in the middle of the East River. She was

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Speaker 2: there about five years before fame journalist Nellie bly infiltrated

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Speaker 2: the place to write an expose about the brutality at

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Speaker 2: the women's lunatic asylum. Nellie black mm hm, so it's sentencing.

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Speaker 2: Though Bertha was a mess. She fainted, she sobbed. This

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Speaker 2: is what the judge had to say. Quote. Since I

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Speaker 2: have heard the evidence in her trial, I've come to

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Speaker 2: the conclusion that she is either a very weak minded

353
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Speaker 2: person and herself the victim of her own misplaced confidence,

354
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Speaker 2: or else she is an exceedingly daring and wicked woman.

355
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Speaker 2: Only two options one of the genius, no gray areas.

356
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Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty three, The New York Times ran an

357
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Speaker 2: article with the headline lying to suit herself In it,

358
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Speaker 2: Commissioner Jacob Hess of the Department of Charities and Corrections,

359
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Speaker 2: so quote Bertha Hayman, is it bad?

360
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Speaker 3: Department of Charities and Corrections? So way prisons and charities.

361
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 2: Is one department giveth and it taketh away.

362
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Speaker 3: But that's insane, isn't it.

363
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Speaker 2: This is what Jacob has had to say. Quote Bertha

364
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Speaker 2: Hayman is a bad woman, a very bad woman. This

365
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Speaker 2: woman is utterly untrustworthy. She is as bad as bad

366
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,200
Speaker 2: can be and would not scruple to swindle her associates

367
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Speaker 2: in the prison if she could get a chance. Okay,

368
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 2: we get it right. He was right because while she

369
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 2: was in prison she managed to swindle one thousand dollars

370
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Speaker 2: out of a visitor.

371
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Speaker 3: Out of a visitor, but it was even visiting her,

372
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 3: just like, hey buddy, no hepes, come on down this way.

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Speaker 2: In January of eighteen eighty three, the Chicago Tribune declared

374
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Speaker 2: that Bertha quote long since earned the sober kit in

375
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Speaker 2: the police circles and other cities, as the quote confidence queen. Oh,

376
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 2: let's take a break. Okay, when we come back, I'll

377
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,439
Speaker 2: tell you more about the amazing life and times a

378
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 2: big Bertha.

379
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Speaker 3: Hello Zarin, Hello Elizabeth, big Bertha, thank you for calling

380
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Speaker 3: me that. Yep.

381
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,679
Speaker 2: Later in eighteen eighty three, when we left off, she

382
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 2: was doing some time she got out of jail, was

383
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 2: convicted again of stealing two hundred and twenty five dollars

384
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Speaker 2: from a man named Edward Sanders.

385
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Speaker 3: This time stealing.

386
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Speaker 2: Stealing not conned him, well, they called him stealing in

387
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 2: the paper, but I think she conned him of it.

388
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 2: She never really just kind of like broken.

389
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Speaker 3: I didn't think he would go pickpock.

390
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,360
Speaker 2: This is what the New York Sun had to say. Quote.

391
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Speaker 2: The prisoner came into court wearing a black silk dress,

392
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 2: black jersey, and a cartwheel hat smothered in feathers. She

393
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 2: is black eyed and black haired, something like forty years old,

394
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 2: very stout and not good looking. Edward Sanders, the complainant,

395
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 2: is a small, nervous man with gray beard and thin hair.

396
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 2: He has lost a leg. He testified yesterday that he

397
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,719
Speaker 2: was formerly a teacher of Greek, Latin, Hebrew, German and French,

398
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 2: and a preacher in societies and synagogues. He refused to

399
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 2: speak in English and required the services of a translator.

400
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering the black jerseys she was wearing. This

401
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,400
Speaker 3: is like a Brooklyn nets y. That's how I'm wearing

402
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 3: to court.

403
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 2: And then like short jeorts.

404
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 3: He's like wrong court, ma'am. I like the jeorts. That's

405
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 3: what that is, formalware. That is No, wait a minute,

406
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 3: I had to ask you. So I noticed that the

407
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 3: journalist was rather rough on the one legged former teacher

408
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: as well. So did it help him to be associated

409
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,920
Speaker 3: with her, because now that everyone can throw their program

410
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 3: at her.

411
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. He he like, here's

412
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 2: the thing, like so he's his German speaker, so he's

413
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: not really full and he's this rabbi pretty much. He's

414
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 2: kind of this outsider in the society. Here's what got

415
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 2: them into this circus of a corporate Bertha got a

416
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,639
Speaker 2: letter from Edward Sanders. He wrote to Bertha and proposed

417
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 2: not a marriage, con he wanted her to help him.

418
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 2: They were going to swindle his business partner out of

419
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: some cash, using her typical I'm about to be rich,

420
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 2: Can you spare a dying thing. They did get some

421
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 2: money out of the guy. Then Bertha got scared and

422
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 2: told the Mark about the plot, so she rated out Sanders.

423
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 2: Sanders had a different version of what happened, though, He

424
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: said he wrote to Bertha to ask her to move

425
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 2: in with him and when she got out of prison.

426
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 2: I don't think this was a romantic proposition because his

427
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: wife and kids were in court. Oh, so I thought,

428
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 2: maybe he's like doing a charitable thing, broad minded, you know,

429
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: I don't judge, you know, maybe he had an arrangement. Anyway,

430
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 2: Sanders said he knew of no such plot to scam

431
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 2: his business partner. The jury took pity on the amputee

432
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 2: and took his word over Bertha's. Bertha got five years

433
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 2: and was released in eighteen eighty seven. I kind of

434
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: guessed that she catch, she would catch, and he's like

435
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 2: a poor guy, doesn't speak English, and I don't have

436
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: a leg. Bertha, though she could swindle anyone. She convinced

437
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: her attorney that she was really secretly wealthy and that

438
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: she'd cut him in. Yeah, if she pulled her if

439
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 2: he represented her for free later on down the line,

440
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: and probono excepted. She got a great attorney. So Bertha

441
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 2: gets convicted of theft. She did the five years. She

442
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 2: did those five years and sing sing, oh, what's a

443
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 2: con gal going to do? Upon release from prison?

444
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 3: Write a book? I wish God was before I write a

445
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,199
Speaker 3: book for a woman. I think true.

446
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 2: Well, New York was too hot. She was in all

447
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: the papers. Everyone knew who she was. In fact, she's

448
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: like making papers across the kindry. At this point, you

449
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: got hoddy and like interesting story name Big Bertha.

450
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 3: I mean that's gonna sell paper.

451
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 2: Right, A woman confidence trickster who seduced wallets without being

452
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 2: the eighteen eighties equivalent of a manic pixie dream girl.

453
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Basically, I mean like she should either go down

454
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 3: to Florida or Europe because it ain't gonna be able

455
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 3: to go place. Chicago was a force.

456
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 2: She was an ocean liner of a woman. Yeah, she

457
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 2: knew where she had to go. A frontier, a place

458
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: where people could reinvent themselves.

459
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 3: Oh that's smart too.

460
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 2: Where labels and histories of the stuffy East Coast just

461
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 2: didn't matters erin Huh. She went to San Francisco.

462
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 3: Oh nice, I was wondering, like, is it Seattle. I'm

463
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 3: trying to go run down the options at that time.

464
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 2: Francisco, of course eighteen up the west totally eighteen eighty eight,

465
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 2: almost forty years prior. The place was a commercial hub

466
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 2: of newly minted states.

467
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, gold rush, everything's popping.

468
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. A former Mexican sandy out post. The population boomed

469
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: following the discovery of gold in the foothills in eighteen

470
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: forty nine. In eighteen fifty, the population of San Francisco

471
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 2: was twenty five thousand people. In eighteen sixty fifty six

472
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: thousand people. In eighteen eighty eight when Bertha got there,

473
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: it was nearing three hundred thousand. It's a huge boom.

474
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: Today the population is about eight hundred thirty four thousand

475
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: people in a seven x seven mile area totally. So

476
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 2: San Francisco in eighteen eighty eight was thrilling. My family

477
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: had been there already for thirty six years. Oh, there

478
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: were still elements of the mining boom and the pioneer outlook.

479
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 2: More importantly, there was still mining money around. The city

480
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: was growing. It was adopting more and more luxury aspects

481
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 2: of things and internationalism. Yeah, colleges, fine hotels, libraries, yacht clubs,

482
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: the banks, opera houses, designer dress shops. It was a

483
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: port city, had it all. People and goods came and went,

484
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: And there went thirty seven year old Bertha. And don't forget,

485
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: they said, she looked forty earlier. So ouch in a

486
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: city crawling with con artists and swindlers, as we will know.

487
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she fit right in. So it's early February

488
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty eight. She did not arrive alone. She was

489
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: accompanied by a guy that she said was her step son,

490
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 2: twenty three year old Willie Stanley.

491
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: She didn't get married in between, No, okay, so she

492
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: just kicked up a steps.

493
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: And she's going by the name Bertha Stanley. Oh okay,

494
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: new place, new you.

495
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: Just no husband, right, We've got the steps on the

496
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 3: new name, but no man.

497
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: As always, there's no geographical cure for her criminality. Yeah.

498
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: So she arrives in the city. She gets in touch

499
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: with a childhood friend of hers from Prussia. It's you know,

500
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 2: Russia with a p Yes, like friends with no r

501
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: Rabbi aj messing. I like, this is her friend from childhood.

502
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: I like to imagine that he was a child rabbi

503
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: aj child rabbi fall to CLC.

504
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: So she rolled up, I'm what.

505
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 2: She rolled up to his house and she tells him

506
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: I messed up. I married a gentile, a boy, a

507
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: non jew, this Stanley character back in Illinois. He died though,

508
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: and I'm now a widow, she says, A widow with

509
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: a major inheritance, like hundreds of thousands of dollars and

510
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: it's all tied up in Illinois. And then she's saying

511
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: that she and her step son, you know, they're here

512
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 2: just trying to like make their way, and she found

513
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: out that her friend from childhood was living there. Now

514
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: she and her step son are noticeable. They're drenched in jewels.

515
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: They're like flashing cash. Oh really, yeah, she said. She

516
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: came to San Francisco for this fresh start. She wanted

517
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: to remarry, this time a good Jewish man, and she

518
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: wanted to use her incoming riches for the good of

519
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: the community. I have all this money. I'm just new here.

520
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: Let me give you tons of money.

521
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 3: Tell me where the mutual lady is.

522
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: She's asked the rabbi, can you help me?

523
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 3: Okay? Can you help me help others? What she's asking him.

524
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: She wants him to play matchmaker and introduce her to

525
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: a good man. Oh okay, and Messing knows just the guy.

526
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: I thought he was going to be. The good man.

527
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: He introduces her to his brother in law, Abraham Grunn,

528
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: and he introduces the two and it is love at

529
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: first sight for Grun. He just adores her. Bertha starts

530
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: donating large sums to the synagogue. They use this to

531
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: repaint the place and fix some things, and unfortunately the

532
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: congregation got started on the work before they cashed the

533
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 2: check from Bertha.

534
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 3: I was wondering, she has money.

535
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I am right. They have this

536
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: check from a bank in Illinois, and they're like, oh, great, okay,

537
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: it's going to take a while to wire it, so

538
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: let's just hear pay them now and we'll get those

539
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: these workers do they go and cash.

540
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: The check at their local bank, and the local bank

541
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: and comes back to him and says, hey, by the way, well.

542
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bank. The bank transfer was delayed because the

543
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: bank in Illinois had no record of a mister or

544
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: missus Stanley and their books, and the congregation leave Bertha

545
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: when she told him that it was just a clerical

546
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: error and that she had a lawyer in Illinois working

547
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: on it. Meanwhile, Grunn had it bad for her. Bertha

548
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: had been staying at the Palace Hotel, a posh establishment

549
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 2: right on Market Street that stands today, and then she

550
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: moved to an apartment in the city. Grunn would come

551
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: calling every day at nine am. Every day she wasn't

552
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: up yet, and so he would have to wait until

553
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: she woke up to see her.

554
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: So he's the personification of thirst.

555
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: Soon they're engaged. So Rabbi Messing, he threw a party

556
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: for the couple on March eighteenth. Please remember that Bertha

557
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: arrived the first week of February. Oh damn, So he's

558
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: throwing in the engagement party. Times of waste. And I

559
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: suppose the invitations were sent out, dozens of them. It

560
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: asked for guests to wear full formal dress. Everyone was

561
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: thrilled to be able to meet this fascinating woman with

562
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: all this money. Zaren, Yes, this was an engagement party.

563
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: Sorry engagement.

564
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: You own a green grocer in San Francisco. You're a

565
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 2: respected member of the community, a widower with grown children.

566
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: You attend the synagogue Beth Israel on Turk Street, led

567
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: by Rabbi Messing. You pull up to seven o' eight o'

568
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: farrell Street in San Francisco in a horse drawn carriage.

569
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: You have no idea that one hundred and thirty five

570
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: years later it would be almost snack dab in the

571
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: Tenderloin neighborhood, and that the area would be rife with

572
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: open public drug use and homelessness. That the home you're

573
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: about to enter would later be lumped in with the

574
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: building next door to make for a large apartment building

575
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: holding down the corner of O'Farrell and Hyde. Oh wow,

576
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: right raw. Now, on this Sunday night, March eighteenth, eighteen

577
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: eighty eight, you are visiting the well appointed home of

578
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: your Rabbi. You've been invited to attend the engagement party

579
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 2: of Abraham Grunn and a woman you've been told as

580
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: a formidable, very wealthy widow. You are delighted to make

581
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: her acquaintance.

582
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: I love rich.

583
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 2: As you step down from the carriage into the foggy evening,

584
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 2: you see other swells arriving in all their finery. They

585
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: chatter in excitement. Women's sport. The latest fashion is from Paris.

586
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: Men wear exquisite suits and pop hats. You climb the

587
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: stairs to the parlor and walk into a lovely scene.

588
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: In the warm parlor, people gather and chat while listening

589
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: to a young woman play the piano. The little ting

590
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 2: waltz gently tinkles through the conversations of those gathered. It's

591
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: over the waves. You think you were hoping Rabbi Messing

592
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 2: had one of those new phonographs you'd heard of, but

593
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: the live music will do. A hush falls over the

594
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: party guests as Bertha and her step son Willie enter

595
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: the parlor. They are dressed to the nines. Hoba, that's

596
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: a whole lot of rosy, you think to yourself, like

597
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: a lady with some meat on her bones. She's a

598
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: little young for you, though she's already spoken for, but

599
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: still fat thives saved lives, you muttered to yourself.

600
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: I can hear myself saying it now.

601
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: She's dripping in diamonds in her hair, on her neck,

602
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: dangling from her ears her steps on. Willie's no slouch

603
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: in that area either.

604
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: Fancy too, Oh, he's got.

605
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: Diamonds, the duds down the front of his shirt and

606
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: a flashy diamond pinky ring. The man behind you, a

607
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: local jeweler, whispers to his wife that the gems must

608
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: be worth twenty thousand dollars easily. You think to yourself

609
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: that the amount would likely be six hundred and forty thousand,

610
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: or so, one hundred and thirty five years from then,

611
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: the year twenty twenty three. That doesn't I know? You

612
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: hear two women over to the side, though, whispering that

613
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: the stuff is all likely fake paste. They say, you

614
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: wonder if they're onto something or just jealous. This Missus

615
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: Stanley are soon to be Missus Grun is giving a

616
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: lot of attention. Grun clears his throat. He presents Bertha

617
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: with a lovely diamond engagement ring. The jeweler behind you

618
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: tells a friend that he sold that to Grun for

619
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars. In your estimation, that would be ninety

620
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: six hundred dollars in twenty twenty three. Why are you

621
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: so fixated on twenty twenty three?

622
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 3: You wonder about myself?

623
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: You had a dream last night in which people were

624
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: talking about you and this evening in twenty twenty three.

625
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: It was weird, like you could hear the people talking

626
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: through little rectangle.

627
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: Practically ridiculous.

628
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you figured it was the spicy borsh you ate

629
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: for dinner that gave you such a strange dream. Probably anyway.

630
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 2: Bertha then pulls out a check from her clutch and

631
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: presents it to grin thirty thousand dollars, she proclaims. The

632
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: crowd gasps, oh, why you think that's more than nine

633
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand dollars in twenty twenty three. No

634
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: more bedtime borsh for you everyone. Sheeres and the music

635
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: starts back up. Willie pops the cork on a champagne

636
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: bottle and the elixird begins to flow. It appears to

637
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: you that Willy has already consumed a fair bit of

638
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: the bubbly this evening. The revelry continues, and you feel joyous, jolly.

639
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: It's wonderful to see people and love. Zaren I love love,

640
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: and you're thrilled that this woman of means is so

641
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: dedicated to giving back to the community. Hours later, as

642
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: you wait outside for your carriage, you look into the

643
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: foggy night and you think about your late wife, your

644
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: good fortune, and how lovely this champagne was. A week later,

645
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: an article about the party and Missus Stanley ran in

646
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: the San Francisco Examiner.

647
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: How was there?

648
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: Remember that paper was not particularly kind to her. That's true,

649
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: and this time it's especially so. It's an expose. What's

650
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: the title? This is great newspaper? Boy, Come here, Ma

651
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: and Willie. Missus Stanley's merital engagement and sudden departure is

652
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: her wealth? Real Rabbi Messing's friend the subject of much

653
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: lively gossip, the bridegroom is still game like. It's those

654
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: old newspaper headlines with multiple it's a headline.

655
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: It's a headline and a half.

656
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: Let's take a break. When we come back, I'll tell

657
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: you what it was in that article and the scandal

658
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: that it brought.

659
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: Hi. Hello, Elizabeth Dutton.

660
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: Hi. When we left off her fiance, we're toasting their

661
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: engagement at Rabbi Messing's house.

662
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: I was there. You were there, Yes, great party.

663
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: Along with all the elites of Jewish society in San Francisco.

664
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: And a week later, I.

665
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 3: Was dressed to the sevens.

666
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 2: You were totally you were dressed to the twelfth. A

667
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: week later, the San Francisco Examiner wrote all about it.

668
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: In fact, they wrote all about Bertha. This investigative paper

669
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: didn't seem to connect though, that Bertha Stanley was the

670
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: big Bertha conning her way around New York. Absolutely not.

671
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: They just thought they had a brand new con artist

672
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: in town. Is that amazing?

673
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: Everything's brand new?

674
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they tell the story of Bertha's arrival in

675
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: San Francisco with her step son and her reconnection with

676
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: Rabbi Messing, and how Messing hooked Bertha up with Abraham Grunn.

677
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: This is how they described Grun. Quote, Abraham Grunn, the

678
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: young partner of doctor Messing's son in the lace business,

679
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: and who is a connection of the Rabbi by marriage,

680
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: was introduced to missus Stanley, and though she is said

681
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: to be a not very attractive woman forty five or

682
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: more years old, he fell madly in love with her

683
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: and begged her hand in marriage. Mister Grunn, being a

684
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: very persistent young man and well skilled in all these

685
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: seductive arts a commercial traveler, soon persuaded the rich dame

686
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: to accept his hand and heart. Okay, so he's like,

687
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: you know, sexy traveling salesman seeks wealthy widow. So and

688
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: I love that they can't get that she's not attractive.

689
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: Got to make sure that's and she's on the headline.

690
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: She's at least forty five. Yeah. So the article goes on.

691
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: It exposes the rumors of Missus Stanley's phony fortune. Bad

692
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: checks to the synagogue, the stiff liquor store that supplied

693
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: the booze for the engagement party. She paid them with

694
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: another bad Illinois check. She promised people cash, she borrowed cash.

695
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: They noted that people called the bank in Illinois and

696
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: confirmed that they had never heard of Bertha, but Bertha

697
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: explained that away by saying that she told the bank

698
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: to say that. Of course, privacy reason asked them to

699
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: say that, just tell him I'm not here. The article

700
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: said that this budding scandal is all the buzz in

701
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: the Jewish community, which they were calling the Hebrew community

702
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: in the paper. Some of the people in the community

703
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: are offended, and others were laughing at those who were

704
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: duped because they were just so eager to cozy up

705
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: to a rich lady. They didn't think about it.

706
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 3: I got you.

707
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: The paper announced that Bertha had ended her engagement. She

708
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 2: called it off. Bertha ended it in part because Grunn

709
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: was so clean.

710
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: I told you that boy thirsty.

711
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: She's coming coming over and waking me up. The article

712
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: also put forth that Grunn was unswayed by this rejection.

713
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: He still wanted to call on her and sent her gifts.

714
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: He wanted to kiss her sweet lips.

715
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: So he becomes obsessive.

716
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: Well and he yeah, he's completely obsessed. And on the

717
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: day that she leaves town, he does all this stuff.

718
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: So the impetus for the article was the fact that

719
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: Bertha had skipped town for a.

720
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 3: I figure she's in the wind horrible.

721
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: Before leaving, she kissed grown goodbye, and he held his

722
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: fingers to his lips for like twelve hours afterwards.

723
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: Get the heck I.

724
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Made that up? Okay, I could believe.

725
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 3: It, right because I'm gullible today.

726
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm a con. So then she headed to

727
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: a hatch. She kissed him goodbye, smooch, and then she

728
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: heads to a hat shop and buys a bonnet. I mean,

729
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: that's what I do when I skipped down traveling. She

730
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 2: didn't have the cash for it, though, so she borrowed

731
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: fifty dollars from the shop owner to pay for Just

732
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: give me the hat.

733
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 3: Right, let me borrow fifty bucks. I'll give it back

734
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 3: to you immediately.

735
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: All the stories like they give me the hat, I

736
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: don't have cash on me. Can I borrow fifty bucks?

737
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: Step to this right totally. Remember the article hadn't come

738
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 2: out yet, and a lot of people didn't know about

739
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: the scam when she was like some.

740
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 3: People just don't read.

741
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, no everyone read the paper. But like

742
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: when she bought the hat, oh I got I got

743
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: just too early. So Bertha and Willie they're skipping town.

744
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: They hop on a ferry to cross the Bay, and

745
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: then they jumped on a train headed for LA. She

746
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: sent telegrams back to grun and Messing, saying that she'd

747
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: gone to LA to get her finances straightened out. You

748
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: knows there, yeah, exactly, it's not like San Francisco, financial

749
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: center of the West coast. She said she'd be back

750
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 2: and that she was going to send Willy up shortly

751
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 2: to settle up all the bills. Like, don't worry, Willy

752
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: is going to take care of my Willie will do it.

753
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: The next day, the Examiner ran another article, and that's

754
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: because doctor Messing went to them and was like, you're

755
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: messing with me.

756
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: Oh around.

757
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: I kept thinking, no.

758
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, he was her childhood friend. Is he mad?

759
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: Or do he know who she is?

760
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad you brought that up. Okay, So

761
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: he's like, I want to set the record straight. First

762
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: things first, I didn't know her from before. Oh she

763
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: apparently they were like from the same town. But he's like,

764
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: I didn't recognize her. She was naming me. I knew

765
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: a family with that name in the town. But come on, Schlessinger,

766
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 2: like there's common He said, he didn't introduce her to Grunn,

767
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: to Abraham, and then he only let them have the

768
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 2: party at his house as a favor to his brother

769
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 2: in law. Grun he admits to like, Okay, I got

770
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: snowed by her promises of large donations. I'll cop to that.

771
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 3: I'm antor right.

772
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: And then he said that there wasn't a huge party

773
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: filled with men in tuxedos and women in the latest

774
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: fashions and all the luminaries and commercial magnets of Hebrew society. No,

775
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: it was just like, it wasn't them. He's like, you

776
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: know what, imagine all the Hebrews going dumb dancing on

777
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: top of chariots, turning tight ones. He was like, it

778
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: was like three people. Thank you. I had to get that,

779
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: all the Hebrews. He also said, as soon as the

780
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: article came out the day before that, he sent a

781
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: telegram to Bertha in La. He's like, look, girl, you

782
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 2: said that. You know you all these things they're false.

783
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: Your business is all over the paper. You better come

784
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: back here fix it. So she left La and headed

785
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: to East Texas. Yeah, she and Willie. They were apprehended

786
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: in Texas, sent back to somewhere now. I don't remember

787
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: what it was but anyway, yeah, it was probably what

788
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 2: it is horrible. So she goes to No Offense, Texas.

789
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 3: Mean, I think the oil town of Beaumont knows.

790
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: So she goes back to San Francisco to face criminal

791
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: and civil charges. Three months later, in June of eighteen

792
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: eighty eight, we are on a thrill ride zer And

793
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,479
Speaker 2: this started in February eighteen eighty eight. By June, she's

794
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: been extradited back to San francs from East Texas. She's

795
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: giving interviews to the examiner from her cell at the

796
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: county jail.

797
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: Nice.

798
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 2: Everyone had put it together by this point that Bertha

799
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: Hayman was birth. It was big Bertha. Okay, finally figured

800
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: it out. She was known in the papers at the

801
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: time as the confidence Queen. Yeah, so she's holding court

802
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: like a queen. She had a dressmaker at the jail,

803
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: crafting fashions.

804
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 3: Dressmaker. Yeah, she was incarcerated with her No no, no,

805
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: she brings one two jh oh. Wow.

806
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: She's having her interview with the examiner. She's like, can

807
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: you give me one second? They need me over in

808
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: the other room to take my measurements. Yeah, she was

809
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 2: having her photo taken or as they say in the

810
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,479
Speaker 2: South having her picture made.

811
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like if Rihanna was in prison, you know,

812
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 3: like she's got a wine glass she's.

813
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: Gone from And she had worked out a deal to

814
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: take to take to the stage in a show at

815
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: Woodwards Gardens, which was an amusement park at the corner

816
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: of Mission in fourteenth in San Francisco, right under the freeway.

817
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: She had no experience on the stage, but she was

818
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 2: really excited about this. You know, what does she care?

819
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: She figured people would just show up just to like

820
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 2: look at her, and that she would, you know, take

821
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: their money, but this time in and above board, and

822
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: then she could pay off all these debts. So the

823
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: Examiner articles from the time are so amazing, Like I

824
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: just wish I could just sit here and read them

825
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: all to you. Here's some gems quote. She has a soft,

826
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: sympathetic voice, a graceful manner, a winning smile, and a

827
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: nameless quality which makes everyone forget that she's stout and

828
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: does not possess any claim to what is usually considered beauty.

829
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 3: Jesus, what do they call it? A nameless She has

830
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: a nameless quality, quality, graceful manner, a winning smile. The

831
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: nameless quality that is this thing that we are going

832
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 3: to name.

833
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: All these things are going to make us forget that

834
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: she's a.

835
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: You know what that thing is. I don't know how

836
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: I forget. She ugly.

837
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: These people are horrible to people are real rough. Here's

838
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: an even better exchange between the defense attorney and Abraham

839
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: Grunn on the witness stand.

840
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: Oh yes, give me that law and order energy quote.

841
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: Pardon my delicate question, but if not too bold, How

842
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: old are you, he asked, I am yes, that is

843
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: a thirty eight? I believe yes. Were you born in Egypt?

844
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: Or no, Russia is the home of my childhood, the

845
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: land of the nihilist and the bear. But I love

846
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: that you were born in Egypt? What your Hebrew? When

847
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: you met the defendant at doctor Messing's house, did you

848
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 2: fall in love with her in the old delicious yum

849
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 2: yum way? Like you giddy young young people will at times.

850
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: What did you fall in love with her in the

851
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: old delicious yum yum way, the old delicious I mean,

852
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: I've done that, but come on, now, give it a lot.

853
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: But he's saying, that's what giddy young people do. Bertha.

854
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: This is in the article Bertha giggled, but Gruns studied

855
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: the lines on his hands and answered, yes. After a while.

856
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: Was it with my fair client or with her supposedly

857
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: vast worldly possessions that he had?

858
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 3: The youngem huh, I.

859
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: Thought I could better my worldly position, but she was

860
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 2: so rich, don't you know? But I guess I did

861
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: love herself too. Woe his honor stopped his owner. Stop

862
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 2: the attorney with a stamp of his foot. These susceptible

863
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 2: young men must not be ridiculed, Sir, I was young

864
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: and sentimental once myself, and wrote poetry and the Gloaming too,

865
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: so forbear, The attorney responds, I'll treat him as delicately

866
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: as a spring chicken.

867
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: It's like freezy.

868
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: I can't take it. The attorney later asked, quote, you

869
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: did kiss and caress.

870
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: Her in the gloaming, and the.

871
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: Judge interrupted and said, quote, well, I suppose we all

872
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: know what they do, and then winked, Wow, it's like

873
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 2: here's the thing. The trial was the hottest ticket in town,

874
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: and I see why, Like I would have stood in

875
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: line for this. I don't. I don't wait in lines.

876
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: I would wait in line. Yeah, their crowds would like

877
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: push in every day, and they would only let in

878
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: a few and then everyone be all pissed off and

879
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 2: go out on the street. Bertha gets acquitted. Spoiler alert,

880
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: Bertha gets quitted. The courtroom erupts into cheers. Everyone's just

881
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: freaking out. They're all excited. Willie got six months. Willie

882
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 2: took the.

883
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: Fall really yeah, so if it really fit, then.

884
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: Gets acquitted. January eighteen eighty nine, Bertha's back in court.

885
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: This was for obtaining money under false pretenses like the

886
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: last case, but and it was all the same players, Bertha,

887
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 2: Willie Grunn, Messing. The first trial was about jewelry. The

888
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: second one, this one was about Bertha getting money for

889
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 2: real estate that didn't exist. Yeah. Once again Bertha went

890
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: out found not guilty, and once again the gallery of

891
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: folks watching in the courtroom just irerupted into cheers. And

892
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: this is the judge, yell stop that noise. It is

893
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 2: highly improper, clear clear the court there was like whoa

894
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: party it?

895
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 3: What was god it?

896
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: This was the last of the charges that could be

897
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: brought against Bertha. So she was truly a free woman

898
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 2: at this point. Oh wow, Deck leared ready to go.

899
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: So she took her act on the road and I'm

900
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: going to read you parts of a brief article hot Biscuits.

901
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: It's good, but.

902
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: This is from the San Francisco Chronicle February ninth, eighteen

903
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: ninety headline, she plays havoc with Bakersfield sports quote. Big

904
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: Bertha Stanley has, since the culmination of her famous suit,

905
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: used her vigorous bodily attractions to impress the ubiquitous museum attender.

906
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: It goes on to say that she's performed in La.

907
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: It's an epithets.

908
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: Like the trash that goes to the Carnie Show, is

909
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 2: basically what they're saying. So they say that she performed

910
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: in La, she performed in Sacramento, stocked in she's hitting

911
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: God blessed doctor, and now she's in Bakersfield. Quote. Since

912
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: the arrival of Big Bertha in Bakersfield, she seems to

913
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: have created quite a fure among the blooded young gentlemen

914
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: of that locality. It is not an uncommon thing for

915
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 2: her to turn into her employer two hundred and fifty

916
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: dollars in a single night the proceeds of a wholesale

917
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: champagne slaughter. One young man in particular has been completely

918
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: fascinated by the fair and fat Bertha, and the manner

919
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: in which he is allowing his money to fly is

920
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: the side talk of the town. They're calling some guy

921
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: out for spending all this money on her.

922
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: Why these guys just have fun? I don't get it.

923
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: It goes on for an indefinite time. The sporty inhabitants

924
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: of Bakersfield will have golden opportunities to see the erstwhile

925
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 2: confidence queen whose business it is now to troll out

926
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: ungrammatical ditties and chuckle the chins of admirers who have

927
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: large stock of the needful.

928
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 3: Do you think she was super funny?

929
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: I think she was absolutely hilarious.

930
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 3: Telling she was super chariot like Dorothy.

931
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: Parks, charismatic, funny, smart.

932
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: Really real quick. I'magining super quick and then seductive in

933
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: a way that is based on her confidence as a

934
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: who she knows who she is.

935
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's amazing, mystery right, I love it.

936
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 3: I think she's awesome.

937
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: She continued to play all over California, and then she

938
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: went back to San Francisco for stands at the Bella

939
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 2: Union Theater. Oh wow, Yeah. Eighteen ninety three, she moved

940
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: to Butte, Montana. Hum, you know, frontier tasto. I suppose

941
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: she bought a theater and bar there, and then by

942
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: nineteen hundred she was living in Chicago running a dive.

943
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: As they said in the paper, I'm guessing it's like

944
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: a bar casino. And she died in nineteen oh one

945
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: in Chicago. The article about her death in the Anaconda

946
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: Standard out of Montana, this is the like yeah, it's

947
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: a Montana paper, provides some details about her final years.

948
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 2: She never had any trouble with the law and Butte,

949
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 2: and she piled around with a guy named Charles Marion

950
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: aka Boston Charlie. So. That guy had been running pool

951
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 2: halls and gambling dens in San Francisco until he was

952
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: run out of town in eighteen ninety five. Then he

953
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 2: went to New York, where he was busted multiple multiple times.

954
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: Then he made his way to Butte, much to the

955
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: chagrin of lawmen and upstanding citizens there. Then he went

956
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: back to Boston where he ran an opium smuggling ring.

957
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you know Boston Charlie. Anyway, Bertha So the

958
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 2: Anaconda Standard described her as quote, she weighed more than

959
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: three hundred pounds and was as ungainly as a mud turtle,

960
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: and she was proud of her shape, and she really

961
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: had the idea that she was attractive. She was so

962
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: vain of her elephantine proportions that she had herself photographed

963
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: in tights and numerous ridiculous poses during her residence in Butte.

964
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: A well known Butte man has a set of those

965
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: remarkable pictures and prizes them among his collection of curios.

966
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: Now that's an obituary.

967
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, heck yeah. So she was just to be doing

968
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 3: like low grade like burlesque poet. Well, you know, like

969
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: like heat them up pictures.

970
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose.

971
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 3: So it seems like, I mean, you know, coming from

972
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: the black community, we view bigger women I think differently

973
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: than these reporters. And I'm just just hearing it is

974
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: not wild because like, you know, a confident black woman

975
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: who's bigger, there is no difference of it in her

976
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 3: sexiness than the woman who is slightly smaller. It doesn't.

977
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 3: It's it's the it's the woman you're attracted to the contents, right,

978
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 3: It's it's weird hearing this being did. They're constantly isolating

979
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 3: that except for obviously you know the one paper well.

980
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 2: And there are things where it's like not really relevant.

981
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 3: In the itfends them. It's like a foul wind, you know,

982
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: the who did this? Well then, Also, it's a lot

983
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 3: earlier than you would think, Like we're always told that

984
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 3: beauty standards really changed much later than this. M hmm.

985
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 3: That's a really good point, Producer.

986
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: They wanted they wanted her to be delicate and birdlike,

987
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: and she's like, n dude, I'm a Sherman.

988
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: TANKO love her totally.

989
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: So what's your ridiculous takeaway?

990
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 3: These writers? Man?

991
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: Wow, I just can't get over yum yum.

992
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the young yum is amazing. Like some of

993
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: the like slang of the time, I just amongst not

994
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: hip people, you know, that just seems just seems kind

995
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: of fun. The perfect writing of the newspapers is just

996
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 3: straight up ridiculous. And the fact that these people are

997
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: so focused on the external, if you will, that they

998
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 3: miss all of the aspects of the crime and the

999
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: more interesting aspects of these men and everything that's going

1000
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 3: on in their culture as it's changing and these new

1001
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 3: people are coming to town and changing places like Butte.

1002
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: You know, like they're like, it's this woman, you know,

1003
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 3: they're just so focused and like, obviously we still live

1004
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: in these times where it's like, well, what's the woman doing? So,

1005
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not surprised, but it's ridiculous.

1006
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: What I do like, though, is that even while they're

1007
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: insulting her repeatedly for no reason, she has the agency

1008
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: and all these stories that the men are sort of

1009
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 2: irrelevant totally, and they're just these faceless dimwits.

1010
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 3: These fawning love struggles.

1011
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 2: And they're painted as these fools. And so she's the

1012
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 2: one who she grabs the attention and then she's obviously

1013
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: in charge of it. But yet I think because of that,

1014
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 2: they have to continue to insult her.

1015
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. I mean they're like mad that she got

1016
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 3: one over and then she's able to turn these guys out.

1017
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's breaking up like their structure of how women

1018
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 2: are supposed to look, how they're.

1019
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 3: Supposed to be, what they're supposed to get, and what

1020
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 3: they're supposed to be to do.

1021
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: I love Big Bertha. Yeah, it's amazing. On birth, that's

1022
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 2: all I have. You can. You're so welcome, Sarin. You

1023
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com, which

1024
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 2: is an absolutely beautifully laid out website, like it's so

1025
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: forward thinking.

1026
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: It designers constantly they text me and they go, who

1027
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 3: did this? How did you do this? Was this? Allows

1028
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 3: this legal? Because this is so far ahead of the times,

1029
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 3: and yet it's so up the time, Like I know, right,

1030
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: it's amazing. I had nothing to do with it.

1031
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: It's the greatest thing ever. There's merch there, I think it.

1032
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 3: Really.

1033
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: We're at Ridiculous Crime on both Twitter and Instagram. Do

1034
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: not email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.

1035
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: Just put care of Elizabeth Dutton.

1036
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: At yeah no no at aol dot com. Leave us

1037
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 2: a talk back on the iHeart app. My goodness, please

1038
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: do that. Other than that, next one. Ridiculous Crime is

1039
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Saren Burnette. That's Me, produced

1040
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: and edited by Dave Kusten, King of the Confidence Tricksters.

1041
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: That's Him.

1042
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: Research is by Needy, Marissa Brown and Ample Andrea Song

1043
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: Sharpened Tear. The theme song is by Bakersfield Burlesque Boys,

1044
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by

1045
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 2: Botany five hundreds. Executive producers are Rabbi Ben Boleen and

1046
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 2: Winking Judge Noel Brown.

1047
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 3: This just Him.

1048
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 2: This is Brandy Rebeccy trying me at pepsi ketchup or

1049
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: what do we call it, coola chup.

1050
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: Chere. Okay, well it's not that bad.

1051
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 2: I would give it a solid seven out of ten.

1052
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: I would actually probably buy this, so.

1053
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: You guys should definitely try to be get a chance.

1054
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: We dis clime say it one more time. Geous Crme

1055
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1056
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: My heart heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1057
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.