WEBVTT - 10. America Didn't Send Its Best 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.760 It's July twenty twenty one, and zeb Hal is going 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:08.799 to work. Get out of my car, you know, working 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.639 a nail net for a contract thirty bucks an Arrow'm 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.720 fucking happy. It's been nearly a year since he's seen 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.280 Mickey Windecker or really anyone involved in the protest scene. 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.200 And walk back to my car because I forgot something 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:26.400 came back out. Then I saw those letters as he's 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.200 walking back to his car. Zepsi's a man wearing a 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.080 blue jacket with three large yellow letters on the back. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:39.599 He said, zebadiyas Hall. I was like, yeah, FBI. It 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.199 was hard for me to hear anything else after that. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:42.279 And I'll just put my hands up in the air 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.080 because I'm thinking these dudes are gonna just fucking straight 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.640 up shoot me. I'm freaking out and shaking everything in 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.879 my I'm like, fuck, you know, I'm you know, I'm no, 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.760 I'm getting arrested. FBI agents search zeb and his car, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.080 they take his belt and his shoes. Then they take 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.640 me to like this holding sale and I'm freaking walk out. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:09.520 Zeb has just one question, was it Mickey. I'm Trevor 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.040 Aaronson from Western Sound and I heeart podcasts This is 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:44.319 Alphabet Boys, Episode ten, America didn't send its best. Among 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.360 the racial justice demonstrators in Denver, Trey Quinn is the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.200 only one who was really onto Mickey. I think he's 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.400 I think he's fucking suspicious. Trey had proposed a hypothetical 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.480 idea to Mickey back in August twenty twenty, what if 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.840 a neighborhood were set on fire, and Mickey told Tray 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.160 that he knew some guys who could make that happen. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.040 Trey was smart enough to suspect that that's the behavior 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:14.400 of a FED, but Trey never has definitive proof until 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.920 the next month when he's arrested. I had the day off, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.160 and when I went back to work the next day, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.880 one of my courses like, Hey, yeah, the cops came 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:26.800 here looking for you and you weren't here. And I 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.440 was like, and I was like, oh shit, here we go, 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.679 Here we go. At the time, Tray's working out a 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:39.960 Sherwyn Williams. From inside through the windows, he sees a 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.320 police cruiser pull up right behind his car in the 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:48.280 parking lot, and I see two cops walking through the doors, 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.960 and then two more walk through the doors, and then 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.160 one more walks through the door and stands out the door, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.799 and they come up and they like to trade Quinn, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.400 you got one for your risk for insighting Ray and 0:02:58.480 --> 0:02:59.880 so on and so forth. And so I was like 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.640 no protests, saying I lead no protests, which was true 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.760 at this time. What Tree means is that as the 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.160 protests had become more violent with the attacks on the 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.120 police stations, he had backed away. So Trey wasn't technically 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.520 leading the protest any longer. And so then they cuffed me. 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.920 We get outside and there's a Shillottle cop cars out 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.320 there and tossed me in and whipped me away, just 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:30.280 voiced me away. He and five other organizers are arrested 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.280 that day for activities during the demonstrations. In twenty twenty, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.280 Trays charged with inciting a riot, engaging in a riot, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:42.600 false imprisonment, and obstructing government operations. When I was being 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.560 detained and questioned, they passed me off to the FITS. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.960 Trey is taken into an interrogation room. And so when 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.560 the FETs came in the room and introduced themselves to me, 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.160 Mickey was the first name that they dropped for Trey. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.080 Hearing the FETs mentioned Mickey from the very beginning. He 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.880 knew what that meant. They were trying to gauge his suspicion. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.160 I mean, why else would you do that? And so 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.840 I said, what do you know about Mickey? And they said, well, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.360 we're trying to figure that out. And that's obviously a 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.919 tell right there. And so I knew right then and 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:26.839 there he's working with these guys. Prosecutors, after deliberating for 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.520 nine months, eventually dropped all the charges against Trey. The 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.600 five other protest organizers who are arrested also have their 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:38.400 charges thrown out. Their cases were bogus, but the damage 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.080 to the movement is done. Mickey's operation in Denver is 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.080 coming to a close as the FEDS, with the help 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.880 of local officials, start hauling in some of the people 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.880 he's been secretly recording. Well, they showed up at my house, 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.160 they showed up at the park that I was at 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.400 with my girlfriend and her daughter, and they showed up 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.279 at my best friend in's house. This is Bryce Shelby, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.919 the guy who discussed with Mickey and the FBI undercover 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.560 agent a plan to assassinate Colorade as attorney general or 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.280 was it the district attorney A vague plot that ultimately 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.919 went nowhere. They said I was under investigation for pretty 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.800 much saying that was gonna murder the attorney general. This 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.479 was on November third, twenty twenty, the same day of 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.400 the presidential election. The cops seemed on edge, so they 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.760 patted me down and shit like that. And it was 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.479 really light first off, Like for your listeners, I'm not 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.560 trying to be amusement and poke fun and no ship 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.480 like that. But it was almost like they were still 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.400 scared in whatever way. It was like they were still afraid, 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:50.720 Like this motherfucker, he's still got something still, you know 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.800 what I mean. It was weird. They take Bryce's assault 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.160 rifle from his home, but they don't arrest him. Bryce 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.880 isn't being charged with a crime. Instead, local prosecutors use 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.560 the evidence the FBI collected to ask a court to 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.800 take away Bryce's gun for a year. Under Colorado's so 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.360 called red flag law, Bryce is a potential threat to 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:16.080 the community, prosecutors argue. Local media run with a story. 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.359 His name is Bryce Jordan Shelby and this is his 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.240 mug shot from twenty eleven. Law enforcement officials present Bryce's 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.640 case as if the assassination plot was something a lot 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.679 more than it was. This is from the local Fox 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.400 affiliate KDVR, as accuses Bryce Jordan Sidney Shelby I'm surveilling 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.200 Attorney General phil Wiser's Hall. The twenty nine year old 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.599 is now accused of plotting to shoot Attorney General Phil 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.080 Wiser in the head, Planning to shoot the state's top 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.680 law enforcement official in the head and quote does not 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.479 care if a g Wiser's wife, dog, or children have 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:54.200 to die in the process, and adhering to take away 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.480 Bryce's firearms. A Denver police detective testifies that the FBI 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.640 had reached what he called an impasse and had not 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.240 been able to build a prosecutable criminal case against Bryce. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.840 Probably gets a little blurred because I did say certain things. 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:14.440 So that's whatever they're in some way to put it 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.360 for intent and shit like that, you know what I mean. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.800 But yeah, not going through with any kind of plant 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.720 payments and shit like that. Yeah, no, you know, I 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:30.360 mean no, zeb Hall isn't as fortunate. After buying a 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.560 gun for Mickey and being there that strange night when 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.800 Mickey recorded the video making threats and saying he wasn't 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:42.520 a snitch, zeb backed away from all of it, and everyone, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:49.440 including Mickey, things had gone too far, had become too dangerous. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:56.320 The revolution that can wait, police say. Shelby, who self 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.680 identifies with the Black Panther Party, also said he wanted 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.440 to I woul eliminate the mayors and police chiefs of 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.000 Denver and Aurora. Zeb see's on the news that police 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.440 have taken away Bryce Shelby's guns. Zeb's been very slow 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.720 to come around to this conclusion, but by now he's 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.680 finally beginning to suspect that Mickey's an informant. So and 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.640 this is kind of bizarre given that suspicion. But Zeb 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.320 sends a link to a local news article about Bryce 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.600 to Mickey, and you know, that was when I text 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.400 Mickey out of nowhere, gonna say that, you know, I 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.080 guess fuck around, I'll find it out. And he says yep, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.080 and kept it at that. That was in November twenty 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:40.760 twenty months pass and in July twenty twenty one, out 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.400 of nowhere, Zeb gets another text from Mickey. According to 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.880 an FBI internal report, agents asked Mickey to reach out 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.960 to Zeb an anticipation of securing an indictment against him 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:58.080 and to determine his whereabouts, checking to see how you're doing, Mickey, writes. 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.719 Zeb text Mickey that he's surprised to hear from him. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.560 He also says he's distanced himself from everyone who's participated 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.439 in the demonstrations. I think you're paranoid, lol. Mickey replies, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.120 nothing against you and your crew, but the past year 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.280 was dangerous, Zeb writes. At this point, Zeb is scared 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.880 of Mickey. Is he a snitch as people have claimed, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.800 or is he just some crazy, badass motherfucker? What if 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.600 he comes looking for me? Zeb thinks I even bought 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.520 a gun because I was just afraid of him. I 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.360 was fucking terrified of this guy. Always kept it up 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.680 in my closet and everything. You know. I took it 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.320 out with me a few times just because I was 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.679 fucking afraid, kept it in my car. I don't know 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.400 if that's legal or not, but I was just fucking 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.440 terrified this human being. About two weeks after that out 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.200 of the blue text exchange with Mickey, Zeb's at work 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.520 and walks back out to his car. He sees a 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.920 bunch of guys wearing FBI jackets. They're waiting for with 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.120 a federal indictment. Zeb's been charged with transferring a firearm 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.560 to a felon, an offense punishable by up to ten 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.160 years in prison and a fine of up to two 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.280 hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Zeb is about to enter 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:21.240 a criminal justice system that's rigged against him more after 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:28.600 the break. No doubt, the FBI was hoping for much 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.840 more with Zeb, some sort of headline grabbing criminal case 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.079 related to a bomb plot or a plan to kill 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.480 a politician. But Zeb never moved beyond tough guy talk, 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.800 and tough guy talk isn't a crime. The FBI got 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.960 Zeb on what's sometimes called a backup charge. FBI agents 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.360 will often entice targets to commit lower level crimes, in 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.760 Zeb's case, buying a gun for a felon, so that 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.679 if the big case doesn't work out, at least they 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.520 have something to show for all the work and all 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.720 the taxpayer money poured into their investigation. In Zeb's case, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.960 there are two problems, and I think they highlight the 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.679 fundamental absurdity and unfairness at work here. The first is 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.400 that Mickey and the FBI had engineered a relationship with 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.839 Zeb in which Mickey was the alpha. Mickey portrayed himself 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.080 as dangerous and violent. He had pictures of dead ISIS 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.440 fighters on his phone when Zeb bought the gun for Mickey. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.280 How much of what he did was driven by fear 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.760 of Mickey? And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, this dude is 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.840 fucking crazy, But I don't think it hit completely that 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.520 he was complete fed at some points. But when he 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.880 asked me to do that shit, I was like, whoa fuck. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.400 I knew I wasn't safe if I said no. And second, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:56.560 what Zeb did only happened because the FBI secretly enabled 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.440 every step of the process. They gave him money to 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.960 give to me. You know, right, so you use the 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.600 So you basically use FBI money to buy a gun 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.560 that essentially went back to the FBI. Yeah, your tax moment, 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:17.200 Our tax moment. Zeb ultimately decided to plead guilty to 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.880 his felony case. This is not at all uncommon for 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.160 an American in his position. The federal criminal justice system 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.720 is designed to produce plea deals. Over ninety seven percent 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.679 of all criminal convictions in federal court are the result 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.400 of plea agreements. This is due entirely to the horribly 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.320 lopsided risk of taking a federal criminal case to trial. 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.400 If Zeb had presented his case to a jury, pitting 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.000 his overworked public defender against the limitless resources of the 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.160 Justice Department, he would have risked spending up to ten 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.200 years in prison. But if Zeb takes a plea deal, 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.520 the Justice Department will recommend that he not spend any 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:04.040 time in prison. I felt that if I fought it, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.440 they found some way to label me as a domestic terrorist, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.679 and so I figured, yeah, it's better to take the plea. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:17.520 Zeb has no real choice here. He's screwed. The house 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:29.679 always wins, well, maybe not always. The summer of twenty twenty, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:38.800 all that anger and fear, can we really say anything changed? Maybe? 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:45.520 I mean there's been some accountability. In Aurora, Colorado, the 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.160 police officers and paramedics responsible for the death of Elijah McClain, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.680 the unarmed black man who was injected with a lethal 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.560 dose of ketamine. They were indicted on state criminal charges, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.600 now a thirty two count indictment. Officers, a former officer, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.960 and two paramedics each face account of manslaughter and criminally 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.959 negligent homicide. Four of the five also face assault charges, 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.160 and a federal jury ordered the city and County of 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.600 Denver to pay millions and damages to demonstrators who were 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.960 injured by police during the protests. Denver has to pay 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.480 up big time fourteen million dollars to twelve people over 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.640 the police department's use of force during protest over the 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.800 murder of George Floyd. This civil case was the first 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.680 in the nation to take to trial accusations of police 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.080 brutality during the summer of twenty twenty. A jury ruled 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.520 in favor of protesters today who say dept violated their 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.960 civil rights and used excessive force when officers used tear 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.760 gas and fired pepperballs at them back in twenty twenty 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:52.560 oh and remember Colorado Springs gendercover cop with her pink hair. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.480 Those activists got some results too. The city ended up 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.240 settling a lawsuit with the family of the Von Bay 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.920 who's fatally shot in the back by a police officer, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:10.080 for three million dollars. No doubt, public pressure and all 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:14.000 those demonstrations played a role in making those small changes. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.760 In that way, Zeb and the other protesters accomplished something, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.480 but it came at a cost. For Zeb. He's pleaded 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.560 guilty to a felony charge, and with his sentencing hearing 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.680 coming up, he's concerned that, despite assurances to the contrary, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.200 the judge could sentence him to prison for using the 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.600 government's money to buy a gun for the government's agent, 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:47.720 who then gave it to the government. On September seventh, 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.680 twenty twenty two, zeb walks into the federal courthouse in 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:56.480 Denver for a sentencing hearing. An hour later, he calls me, Hey, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.120 what the d are you doing? Hey? Zeb, how are 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.720 you add all right? Got a three years probation, They says, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.320 I could probably get off after one the probation, and 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.320 the prosecutor they argued for three. My attorney argued for one. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.160 But they kind of tied it to political events coming up, 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.880 maybe the twenty twenty four election and any other events, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:23.320 because they directly brought up the January sixth incident, saying that, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.320 you know, it's the potential that if something like that 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.120 happened again, mister Hawker just just swept up into it. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.000 So do you feel Do you feel good about it? Uh? No, dude, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:39.320 I don't. I don't deserve it, and I don't feel 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.880 good that they want to cover up the fact that local, state, 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.160 and federal law enforcement caused violence here. I don't feel 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.280 good about it. I don't feel good about it. So 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:58.880 here's something interesting. During the hearing, Zeb's judge mentioned January sixth. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:08.760 Direction It's interesting because as the FBI and the Justice 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.399 Department were focused on racial justice groups, they turned a 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.199 blind eye to right wing extremists who ultimately stormed the 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:21.760 US capital. David Bowditch, the FBI deputy director who compared 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.240 the racial justice protests to nine to eleven, had said 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.359 just days before January sixth, that the bureau was ready 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.480 to respond to any problems. Boutich and the FBI were, 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:44.560 of course, proven very wrong. After January sixth, Boutich quietly 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:54.000 retired from the FBI. The immediate reaction among right wing 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.560 news media and politicians was to tap into the same 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.520 narrative they'd used during the summer of twenty twenty that 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.800 Antifa was the boogeyman. We really don't know who is 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.960 behind this. I guess you could call these, for lack 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.639 of a better word, antifa like tactics. We don't know 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.200 if Antiva is out there. January sixth, maybe it was Antifa. 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.560 If Antifa was there, we need to root it out 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.000 and to make sure that that's called out because it 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.240 shouldn't be blamed on groups that weren't responsible. The last 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.080 couple of times we've seen these rallies, it hasn't just 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.760 been the President's supporters. We have seen Antifa, We have 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.320 seen Black Lives Matter. These claims and many others like them, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.320 had an effect exaggerating the threat of anti fascist activists 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.880 while downplaying the threat of right wing extremists. Even the FBI, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.840 from top to bottom, appeared to be influenced by the 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:50.840 Antifa boogeyman claims. Here's Michael Jerman, a former FBI agent 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.040 who regularly testifies before Congress. How can you not have 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.080 seen the way the Proud Boys have committed violence all 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.480 across the country in the four years prior to January sixth. 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.160 They had committed violence in Washington, DC at Trump rallys 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.639 in November and December of twenty twenty. Agents had fallen 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.280 for the false narrative about Antifa activists, and that allowed 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.400 for a deadly bias that somebody in a position authority 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.960 of the FBI could have such a divergent view of 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:26.320 the necessary preparations the FBI should be making for a 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:32.360 Black Lives Matter protest versus an increasingly public white supremacists 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.240 and far right militant violence, I think highlights that bias. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.399 In Senate testimony two months after the insurrection, Jill Sanborn, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.840 then the FBI's Assistant director for counter Terrorism, was asked 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.119 why the FBI was unaware of social media communications concerning 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.840 planning for the attack on the Capitol. Under our authorities, 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.720 we cannot collect First Amendment protected activities without sort of 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.400 the next step, which is the intent. And so we'd 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.600 have to have an already predicated investigation that allowed us 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.919 access to those comms and or a leader or a 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.080 tip from a community citizen or a fellow law enforcement 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.439 partner for us to gather that information. That isn't true. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:29.560 It's total bullshit, because that's exactly what the FBI did 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.560 in Denver in the summer of twenty twenty. The issue 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.320 in stopping January sixth wasn't the FBI's lack of power 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.400 and authority. The issue was that the FBI was blinded 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.879 by its own hand. It was running around trying to 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.919 create bad guys in the racial justice movement while ignoring 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.440 the very real bad guys who would soon bring violence 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.919 to the US capital. On top of all that, the 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.840 FBI helped us roy the racial justice movement. Just look 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.960 at what happened in Colorado. Racial justice leaders like Trey 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.160 Quinn began to disengage following the rampant mistrust that Mickey 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.280 had created. The Denver chapter of the Young Democratic Socialists 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.960 of America imploded after Mickey used the group in its 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.400 members to bolster his credibility among the demonstrators. There's no 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:28.639 longer a y DSA in Denver. Eventually, the mass demonstrations 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.359 intended to call attention to the deaths of young black 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:36.160 Americans at the hands of police. They stopped. Some of this, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:41.080 no doubt, was a natural occurrence. All political movements eventually stopped, 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:46.200 but the FBI's undercover work in Colorado hastened that collapse. 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.639 Mickey's work for the FBI follows a long pattern. The 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.199 FBI did the same thing in the nineteen sixties. We 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:01.720 had congressional investigations reforms, and we told ourselves, this doesn't 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:07.439 happen anymore. But it does happen. It happened in Denver 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.520 in the summer of twenty twenty. That summer, President Trump 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.040 and right wing media told us that we needed to 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:22.760 be afraid of the Antifa boogeyman. It turns out they 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:28.320 were right. There was an Antifa boogeyman. He drove a 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:34.720 silver hearse filled with guns. He advocated for violence and destruction, 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.440 and he was created and controlled by the US government, 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:53.560 by the FBI. And now I need to find Mickey. 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.359 I'm parked near some rundown apartments south of Denver in 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.080 the city of Sheridan. There are two square, white buildings. 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.399 Each building is split in half, with two units on 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:13.880 each side, one upstairs, the other downstairs. The apartments are 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.280 designed in what's known as shotgun style. If you were 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.400 to fire a gun from the front door, it had 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:21.920 passed through the back door, a straight line from door 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:26.560 to door. This is the apartment that Cassie Windecker shared 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:30.480 with Mickey, the same one where Mickey was arrested for 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:34.359 grabbing Cassie by the neck and slamming her against the table. 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.720 I had long assumed that Mickey wouldn't talk to me, 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.480 after all, remember his life rule fucked the three piece, 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:48.520 the politicians, the press, and the police. I mean, we 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:52.840 know now that's not exactly true about the police. Mickey 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.080 was a professional snitch, but I figured he was likely 0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:01.320 serious about at least one of the other peas. Still 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.680 I want to find him to try to talk to him. 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.320 While reporting out this podcast, I met with a lot 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:14.000 of people who knew Mickey. Most were terrified of him, 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.359 and many didn't want to be recorded or have their 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.800 names revealed. Several of these people told me the same thing, 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:25.480 Mickey isn't in Denver any longer. But then I did 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.440 get this one tip. My best chance of finding him 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.240 go to his old apartment. The guy who lives there, 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:40.160 i was told, is Mickey's close friend in journalism. Doorstepping 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:45.320 his industry slang for an unannounced visit. It's a last resort, 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:50.360 you doorstep someone when other efforts have failed. And I've 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.479 done this enough to know the likeliest outcome is that 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.680 no one answers the door, even if someone is home. 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.320 So I write a note, leave along with my business card, 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.560 and say I'm interested in speaking with Mickey, but it's 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:14.840 worked for the FBI. Hello. I can see inside through 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.959 the closed screen door. The apartment is a mess, piles 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:24.040 of stuff everywhere, with strangely several vacuum cleaners lined up 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:26.919 against the wall. One of the bedroom doors is closed, 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:34.560 and no one's responding. I placed my note in business 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:42.359 card under the door, and I leave, and later that 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:48.399 evening I get a surprise when Mickey actually calls me, 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:54.520 but I missed the call and it goes to voicemail. Yeah, 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:58.719 this is Michael Vindecker. This is the voicemail and its entirety. 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:02.159 L you know now that address you went to a 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.040 post in that piece of paper saying that I worked 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:06.240 for the FBI, and shit, I don't live there. I 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.560 haven't lived there at months. But if you post something 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:10.399 a story about me saying I suppose I worked for 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:12.800 the FBI, will sue the shit out of you. I 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:14.600 will take you to court and I will break you 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.120 off in court for declamation and character as slander. I've 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:20.560 already notified my attorney about this. My previous land or 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.040 notified me and seventy of these papers that you put 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:26.159 on the old door I used to live that stating 0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:28.400 that I worked for the FBI. I do not work 0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:31.480 for the FBI. I've never worked for the FBI. Do 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:33.840 a proof of me working for the FBI, then I'll 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:36.800 say otherwise, but there's no proof because I didn't work 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.720 for them. Don't be posting stuff on my old apartments 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:41.919 to are my neighbors. My old neighbors are thinking that 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.040 I'm an FBI consultant or whatever the hell it is. Okay, 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:49.160 if you do that again, I promise you I will 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:52.920 sue you. That's a guarantee. Don't fucking do that again. 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:55.840 Don't come to my old house. Don't be posting stuff 0:26:55.840 --> 0:27:01.640 that's not true. Twenty minutes later, I receive another voicemail 0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:06.600 from a block number. I'm just letting you know. Michael 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:10.920 Winnicker has not lived at this address for probably now 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:16.960 since midfall last year. Remember, I had heard that a 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:19.560 friend of Mickey's still lives at the apartment where I 0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:23.359 left the note. So I asked that you'd please not 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:26.320 come by my address again. I do not need heat 0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:31.080 on my house. If you do come back by my 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:36.679 house or apartment, I will notify my local law enforcement. 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:42.800