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Speaker 1: Support for today's podcast comes from Chlorox. When it counts,

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Speaker 1: trust Clorox the same way we trust the central workers

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Speaker 1: trust us to give them a safe and protected home.

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Speaker 1: Our community heroes trust Clorox to keep places like hospitals

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Speaker 1: trust Clorox to provide my home with a safe environment

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Speaker 1: Chlorox regular bleach with one gallon of water, when used

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Speaker 1: as directed on hard, non poorest surfaces, it kills ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of germs in bacteria on a

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Speaker 1: variety of surfaces, from our kitchen floors to the counters,

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Speaker 1: to bathroom tubs and of course our laundry whites. I

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Speaker 1: know I can count on Chlorox disinfecting products to give

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Speaker 1: myself and my family the best home we deserve. With

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Speaker 1: it's important to think about all the small ways we

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Speaker 1: can keep our spaces as safe as possible when it counts,

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Speaker 1: trust Clorox. Before we get into the episode, I also

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Speaker 1: want to remind you that we're having our next Feeling

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Speaker 1: Myself Friday event this Friday from eight to ten pm

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Speaker 1: Eastern online. If you've been missing your Girls Nights, then

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Speaker 1: join us for a fun evening chatting with our special

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Speaker 1: guests about wardrobe, styling, makeup and skincare and crystals. Grab

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Speaker 1: your ticket at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash

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Speaker 1: Friday Nights. Now let's jump into the show. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about

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Speaker 1: mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we

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Speaker 1: can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed

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Speaker 1: psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find

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Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for session of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast.

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Speaker 1: One of the most common questions we get from the

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Speaker 1: community is why can't I find a therapist who takes

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Speaker 1: my insurance? There typically isn't a quick or easy answer

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Speaker 1: to that question, and we wanted to provide some insight

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Speaker 1: about what mental health benefits look like for insurance plans

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Speaker 1: and answer as many questions as we could about how

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Speaker 1: to make the best decisions you can when looking for

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Speaker 1: coverage and getting the most out of your being fits. First,

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Speaker 1: we're joined by Dr Kara McNulty, who serves as the

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Speaker 1: President of Behavioral Health and e a P for ETNA.

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Speaker 1: Dr McNulty shared great insights about what kinds of services

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Speaker 1: are offered with insurance plans, how to find the plan

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Speaker 1: that might be the best fit for you, and she

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Speaker 1: shared more about the services ETNA offers to assist the

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Speaker 1: community with mental health needs. And then back for another

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Speaker 1: visit is Dr a Jetta Robinson, who is not only

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Speaker 1: an expert in grief, but also offer services to health

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Speaker 1: therapists manage the insurance plans that they accept. Dr Robinson

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Speaker 1: shared some of the reasons therapists might not accept insurance,

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Speaker 1: what's involved in using your insurance for therapy, and resources

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Speaker 1: you can use if you don't currently have insurance. If

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Speaker 1: anything resonates with you while enjoying the conversations, please be

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Speaker 1: sure to share with us on social media using the

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Speaker 1: hashtag tb G in Session. Here are conversations. Thank you

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Speaker 1: someone for joining us today, Dr mcnolsey, it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be here. Thank you for having me, Dr Joy. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm pleased we will be able to continue the conversation

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Speaker 1: we had a couple of months ago when we were

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Speaker 1: on a panel together, and I would love for you

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Speaker 1: to just start Dr mcnolsey by talking about how you

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Speaker 1: have seen people's mental health being impacted during the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Happy to do so. We know that people are under

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Speaker 1: a lot of stress and having COVID nineteen with all

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Speaker 1: that is unknown, only increases stress and anxiety. And so

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Speaker 1: if we just look at what's happening in our communities

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Speaker 1: right now, the CDC did a report that showed eleven

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Speaker 1: percent of adults who were surveyed contemplated taking their own

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Speaker 1: life as a result of the pandemic because they had anxiety, depression,

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Speaker 1: they were scared. You see this rise in people contemp

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Speaker 1: leading their own mental health and their lives. And then

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Speaker 1: if you take that down even one notch. We know

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Speaker 1: that a group that has really really impacted are our

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Speaker 1: young adults, and we're seeing one in four young adults

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Speaker 1: between the ages of eighteen to twenty four have considered

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Speaker 1: taking their life in the month of June as a

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Speaker 1: result of isolation, depression, anxiety, hopelessness. We're seeing those statistics rise.

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Speaker 1: The other thing we're seeing, Dr Joy is this pandemic

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Speaker 1: has created this uncertainty that is profound for our communities.

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Speaker 1: And so with our attempts to keep people safe, we've

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Speaker 1: had the need for physical distancing. Well, that has created

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Speaker 1: a lot of social isolation, and that social isolation has

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Speaker 1: grown and impacted communities, and some communities much more than others.

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Speaker 1: So you see the perfect storm COVID nineteen. People unsure

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen, people being isolated, and people feeling

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Speaker 1: hopelessness and anxiety and depression, and in many communities asking

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Speaker 1: for help is really hard. Right. I'm glad you shared

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Speaker 1: all of that information, Dr McNulty, because that is one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I have been most concerned about.

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Speaker 1: Its people's mental health right now. But I'm also really

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Speaker 1: concerned about how people's mental health continues to either you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of stay afloat or further deteriorate as we continue

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Speaker 1: to kind of live throughout the pandemic. And so I

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Speaker 1: would love to hear how Witness specifically has maybe shifted

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Speaker 1: your approach to meeting your members needs during this time,

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Speaker 1: especially related to mental health. Absolutely. So you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the things we did right away is we looked

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Speaker 1: at what's happening in communities. What does it mean to

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Speaker 1: have people who are suffering or having increased mental health disruption?

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Speaker 1: So first we just looked at our data what's happening

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Speaker 1: with our members, and what we saw is people needing

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Speaker 1: support because they were worried about their finances, They were

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Speaker 1: worried about their job stability. They were worried, I'm an

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Speaker 1: essential worker and what if I go to work and

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Speaker 1: I bring home this this virus and my family gets sick.

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Speaker 1: How how am I going to take care of my kids?

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Speaker 1: My daycare isn't open. So the first thing we did

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Speaker 1: was look at our data and say what is getting

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Speaker 1: in the way of people getting care? And then the

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Speaker 1: second thing we did right away is we opened up

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Speaker 1: what we call liberalized. We opened up a resource called

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Speaker 1: Resources for Living and Resources for Living is open to

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Speaker 1: anyone across the country, and the offering we provide is

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Speaker 1: it gives you support for addressing your mental health needs.

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Speaker 1: It gives you support for addressing things like how do

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Speaker 1: I find daycare that I can afford or daycare that's open,

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Speaker 1: Or I'm worried about paying my rent? What can I do?

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Speaker 1: I've been laid off or furloughed. I am concerned about

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Speaker 1: having enough food to get to my elderly parents. So

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Speaker 1: Resources for a Living is a unique resource that we

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Speaker 1: open up across the country to anyone where they can

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Speaker 1: call in get the support they need, get the resources

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Speaker 1: they need, and get the mental health counseling they need,

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Speaker 1: and it's free of charge. We did that right away,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy because what we believe is that whether you

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Speaker 1: have insurance or not, now is the time that people

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Speaker 1: need to know they are not alone. So that was

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Speaker 1: the first thing we did. The second thing we did

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Speaker 1: is we made sure, because we needed to physically distance,

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Speaker 1: how do we ensure that people can get the access

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Speaker 1: to care that they need in their community via telemedicine

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Speaker 1: or TeleVideo. So we expanded our relationships with our providers

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Speaker 1: across the country to ensure we had access for anyone

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Speaker 1: who needed mental health services, and we expanded those virtual

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Speaker 1: care offerings literally in every community, and we have seen

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Speaker 1: a robust increase of people utilizing those services. So that

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Speaker 1: was the second thing we did. And the third thing

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Speaker 1: we've done is we continue to check in on our members,

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Speaker 1: on our own employees to ensure that they are taking

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Speaker 1: care of their own mental health well being and that

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Speaker 1: we're giving them the access to resources, webinars, materials that

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Speaker 1: help them build their mental health resiliency get the care

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Speaker 1: they need so that they can handle this unprecedented situation

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Speaker 1: around COVID nineteen and other things happening within our communities.

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Speaker 1: And I appreciate and that we talked about this on

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Speaker 1: the panel before, but this resources for a Living program

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Speaker 1: that you all have that is available to anyone, regardless

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Speaker 1: of whether they receive at the coverage or not. Anyone

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Speaker 1: can use that line and call in to get support

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Speaker 1: and resources. Absolutely absolutely So. We get a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions about the costs associated with mental health care coverage.

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Speaker 1: Can you just share a little bit of Dr Magnoughty

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Speaker 1: about what our community should consider when they're choosing an

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Speaker 1: insurance provider, when they especially know they're gonna want mental

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Speaker 1: health care services. Absolutely, So when you're thinking about picking insurance,

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Speaker 1: it's really important to think about what am I going

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Speaker 1: to need or what do I think I'm going to need?

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Speaker 1: So understanding your own health is important. Maybe you're considering

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Speaker 1: having a baby, or maybe you're pregnant, Maybe you already

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Speaker 1: have had struggles with mental health and you know you're

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Speaker 1: going to need some mental health support. Maybe you're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm pretty healthy. So one you want

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Speaker 1: to think about your health and what you think you'll need.

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Speaker 1: You also then want to look at what is my

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Speaker 1: insurance going to cover. Most insurance plans cover both physical

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Speaker 1: health and mental health. That is often misnomer that they don't,

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Speaker 1: and so really making sure that your plan covers both

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Speaker 1: physical and mental health services. Then you're gonna want to

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Speaker 1: think about what kind of preventive care is offered. So

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Speaker 1: our flu shots offered for free? Can I get my

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Speaker 1: annual physical exam? What about I need a mammography or

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Speaker 1: a colonoscopy, or maybe I need a cervical exam. Making

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Speaker 1: sure you understand what's the her benef care offered, then

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Speaker 1: what's the cost to you? So understanding how much will

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Speaker 1: this cost me, and how will that payment be made?

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Speaker 1: Will I make monthly premium payments? Quarterly? And then finally

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Speaker 1: ensuring that access to care is where you live, so

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Speaker 1: are the services available within your community, and we know

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Speaker 1: it needs to be really easy to seek those services.

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Speaker 1: So right now, I would say the health care community,

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Speaker 1: we've done a great job in providing virtual care, but

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Speaker 1: not always and not forever what we want virtual care

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Speaker 1: and so making sure you have access to those providers

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Speaker 1: right where you live and work, so you can get

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Speaker 1: the help you need when you need it. I'm really

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Speaker 1: glad you mentioned the idea of preventive care, and I

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Speaker 1: think we often think about that a lot as it

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Speaker 1: is related to physical health, but I don't think that

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Speaker 1: we think about it as much when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: mental health. But it seems that there is a bit

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Speaker 1: of tension that exists, especially with insurance, related to preventative

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Speaker 1: mental health care, because usually you have to offer a

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Speaker 1: diagnosis code when you're working with someone on the mental

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Speaker 1: health side, and so for a lot of people therapists

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Speaker 1: and you know, potential clients, they may resist either using

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Speaker 1: their insurance or that may be a barrier for them.

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Speaker 1: Even seeking out working with a mental health professional because

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Speaker 1: they're worried about having to get a diagnosis code. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about are there any you know, efforts being

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Speaker 1: made to maybe kind of talk about mental health care

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Speaker 1: being preventative in the same way as we think about

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Speaker 1: physical health. Absolutely, So across the clinical community, we are

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Speaker 1: looking at ways to embed screening tools and preventive care

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Speaker 1: screening tools around and through mental health. So right now,

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Speaker 1: think we do screening tools to look at your heart health,

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Speaker 1: to look at your sexual health, it would be embedding

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Speaker 1: screening tools that look at your mental health. How have

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Speaker 1: you felt in the last week? Are you feeling hopeless

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Speaker 1: or hopelessness? It's basic questions through a simple survey style assessment.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things we're doing at CBS Health

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Speaker 1: ETNA is we embed these preventive care screenings within our

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Speaker 1: care management programs, within some pilots we're doing in our

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Speaker 1: minute clinics where we're screening for anxiety and depression. So

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Speaker 1: you see healthcare providers starting to build these in these

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Speaker 1: assessments into regular preventive medicine. So it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: you're being seen for. Maybe you went in for your

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Speaker 1: annual physical we're seeing the screening arting to take place

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Speaker 1: around mental health, because what we need to do is

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Speaker 1: make sure we're not looking at someone's mental health separate

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Speaker 1: from their physical health. Most of us is you know,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy didn't wake up and say, gosh, today I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to focus on my physical health or today

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Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on my mental health. We got

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Speaker 1: up and we thought, Okay, what do I have to do?

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Speaker 1: How do I get my kids out the door? What

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Speaker 1: about this that it's really the community, the health care

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Speaker 1: community's responsibility to address people holistically. So you do see

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Speaker 1: us looking at preventive health measures aligned around mental health

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Speaker 1: and physical health. The other thing I would say is

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Speaker 1: we know as a health care community, we have to

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Speaker 1: be working on mental health resiliency when our kids are young,

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Speaker 1: teaching them how to handle stress, how to manage feelings

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Speaker 1: of anxiety, what it looks like to be proactive, to

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Speaker 1: under stand how we feel when we feel good and

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Speaker 1: how we feel when we don't feel good. Teaching our

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Speaker 1: kids are young adults, us as parents and community members

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Speaker 1: that it's okay not to be okay because we can't

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Speaker 1: just wait until there's an issue. So really working on

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Speaker 1: those prevention efforts, those intervention and then what we do

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Speaker 1: when somebody needs care and support? Thank you for that?

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Speaker 1: So something else that we and I'm sure that you

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Speaker 1: have experienced this answered lots of questions related to this

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Speaker 1: as well. There are so many letters associated with insurance plans,

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Speaker 1: So h M versus p PO versus e p O.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about some of those distinctions and what

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Speaker 1: it means to have like those different types of plans. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so it's really important to go back to what do

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Speaker 1: you need and what is the coverage for you as

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Speaker 1: an individual or for you as a family. Is the

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Speaker 1: coverage for someone with a chronic condition so has ongoing

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Speaker 1: medical needs, or someone that's just interested in the basic

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Speaker 1: preventive care. So a couple of definitions. A PPO is

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Speaker 1: a preferred provider organization and it's just a type of

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Speaker 1: insurance where you have a certain set of providers. You

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Speaker 1: can go to. Health maintenance organization or an HMO is

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Speaker 1: like a p PO, so like a preferred provider organization,

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Speaker 1: but it usually has less options. And then you have

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Speaker 1: things called high deductible health plans or h d HP,

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Speaker 1: and those are plans that you normally can go to

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Speaker 1: many many, many different providers, but you have a different

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Speaker 1: way of paying. You pay for the upfront cost up

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Speaker 1: to a certain amount, and then anything after that your

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Speaker 1: insurance covers. Dr Joy. All these get very very confusing.

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Speaker 1: What I would say to the listeners that is most

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Speaker 1: important is to look at what am I trying to

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Speaker 1: do trying to make sure I have basic coverage? What

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Speaker 1: will this insurance cover? What is in my plan? And

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Speaker 1: where are the providers? Are they providers that are convenient

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Speaker 1: for me and my family to get the care and

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Speaker 1: service we need. Yeah, and I would imagine that some

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Speaker 1: of that also, especially if you're getting benefits through your employer,

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Speaker 1: there would need to be some conversations with AGEL are

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Speaker 1: about like the kinds of different plants that are offered

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Speaker 1: as well. Right, And so if you get insurance through

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Speaker 1: your employer, your employer at open enrollment will share enrollment

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Speaker 1: information about your plan, and often those in rollment information

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Speaker 1: sessions or materials have maybe assessments that help you look

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Speaker 1: at what plan is best for me. But it's going

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Speaker 1: to ask those basic questions what am I trying to accomplish?

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Speaker 1: So is it a basic plan or do I need

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Speaker 1: something broader? Who isn't for and where are those providers

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Speaker 1: so I can ensure I get easy access to care.

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Speaker 1: So something else that comes up quite often and we

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Speaker 1: get this a lot in the community, is people really

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Speaker 1: struggling to find therapists who are in network with their insurance.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like people do a reasonably okay job

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Speaker 1: finding medical and physical health professionals who are in network,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of therapists are not in network. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about why that might be? Sure? So, when

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Speaker 1: you think about physical health providers, there are really large

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Speaker 1: provider systems that handle the physical health often of communities.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to mental health, we don't have often

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Speaker 1: those big provider systems. So you have a lot of

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Speaker 1: individual providers that open up their services and so maybe

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Speaker 1: they can only handle so many patients, maybe they can

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Speaker 1: only cover a certain group of insurance because they can

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Speaker 1: only handle again, there one or two providers, so they're

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Speaker 1: they're small provider practices. What we have seen and what

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Speaker 1: we at ETNA are doing is we're helping those small

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Speaker 1: practices with their administration services and with their ability to

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Speaker 1: take on more patients, and we're working to expand the

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Speaker 1: reach of those small providers and partner with larger mental

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Speaker 1: health provider organizations to ensure we have coverage, because absolutely

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Speaker 1: finding people mental health providers that are in network can

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Speaker 1: be hard. It is it is getting better. Every every

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Speaker 1: state has resources that will outline where your mental health

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Speaker 1: providers are, what insurance they take, and what to do

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Speaker 1: if you don't have insurance. So every state has that available.

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Speaker 1: Also nationally, the SAMSA, which is Substance Abuse and Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Service Administration, has a hotline that you can call

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Speaker 1: sixty five days a year to get referral information in

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Speaker 1: English and in Spanish for individuals or families seeking mental

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Speaker 1: and substance abuse here. Thank you for them. We'll make

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Speaker 1: sure to include all of that in our show notes

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Speaker 1: and so not can MAGNOI. I know you mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: that you know we don't necessarily anticipate needing virtual services forever,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of what we've heard in our community

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Speaker 1: is that more people are using services because they find

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Speaker 1: it easier stop with the therapist or I can fit

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Speaker 1: into their schedule better now that they don't have to commute.

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Speaker 1: And so our telehealth visits typically covered through end as insurance.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely we cover telehealth visits and many many insurers cover

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Speaker 1: telehealth visits, especially now it is it is becoming the norm.

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Speaker 1: And when we think dr joy about mental health. One

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Speaker 1: of the great things, if we can say that, that

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Speaker 1: have come out of COVID nineteen is we've gotten all

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Speaker 1: of us more used to what it would be like

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Speaker 1: to have a virtual visit. And sometimes when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about our own mental health and well being, or whether

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Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, our substance use or a

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Speaker 1: plethora of issues, what we know is when we're doing

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Speaker 1: a virtual visit or a phone visit, it's easier to

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Speaker 1: tell the person on the other end, Hey, this is

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Speaker 1: how much I'm really drinking, or this is impacting my life,

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Speaker 1: and here's why it's easier. And what we see is

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Speaker 1: that people are willing to share more and ask for

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Speaker 1: more help because it's easy to remove the barrier of

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Speaker 1: having to sit with someone face to face. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: heard that a lot as well. And you know, therapists

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Speaker 1: have shared that it is a very different experience to

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Speaker 1: see clients in their home environment. Right, So did you

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Speaker 1: even additional information that you would not necessarily get with

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Speaker 1: them sitting in your office. Absolutely absolutely. And we see

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Speaker 1: we see young adults absolutely gravitating towards using these virtual

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Speaker 1: options and staying more consistent with their treatment plans because

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Speaker 1: it's easier, it's time wise easier, it is easier to

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Speaker 1: tell someone for some population sations when you're not face

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Speaker 1: to face, and it's easier to say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm not okay and I really need some help. So,

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Speaker 1: Dr mcnolsey, are there any kinds of session limits related

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Speaker 1: to mental health services being covered? Sure, it depends on

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Speaker 1: your insurance. So if you have insurance through your employer,

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Speaker 1: you also have something most likely called e a P

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Speaker 1: Employee Assistance program, and an e a P does quick,

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Speaker 1: short term counseling visits to address a situation that isn't

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Speaker 1: going to take long term counseling. So maybe you're having

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Speaker 1: an issue with you know, parenting at home and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to manage your kids in their

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Speaker 1: school and keep up with your work and it's really stressful.

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Speaker 1: That might be a great conversation to have with an

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Speaker 1: e a P provider. Usually employers offer e AP sessions

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Speaker 1: in bundles of three to six. We even see some

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Speaker 1: employers offer sessions up to twelve. So it is these

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Speaker 1: short birth sessions. They're usually thirty minutes, sometimes forty five

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Speaker 1: where you can have a confidential conversation with a therapist

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Speaker 1: to talk about your issue and get the support you need.

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Speaker 1: And for example, with ETNA insurance, let's say my first

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Speaker 1: issue was this parenting situation I work through in three

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Speaker 1: sessions with my counselor, and then let's say a couple

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Speaker 1: of months later, I have an issue with my manager.

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Speaker 1: I'm really struggling, We're not connecting well. I find it

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Speaker 1: really stressful. That's a new issue, so it would be

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Speaker 1: a new set of three sessions. So for each issue

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Speaker 1: is its own set, so it's not like you've run out. Now.

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Speaker 1: If it's something like the parenting that continues on and

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Speaker 1: it's causing increased let's say anxiety or depression, then we

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Speaker 1: would transfer you over to utilize additional behavioral health benefits

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Speaker 1: other than E A P. And are there any session

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Speaker 1: limits for your regular like regular mental health benefits. No,

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Speaker 1: because of the goal is that you get the support

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Speaker 1: and care you need. But we're going to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we're helping you get to the right place at

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Speaker 1: the right time, with the right provider, because that's how

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Speaker 1: we get the outcomes that are best for you as

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Speaker 1: the individual. M hm. So that really brings me to

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Speaker 1: my next question, Dr mcnolty. So people really experience, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of frustration in finding the right provider

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Speaker 1: for them. Right so we know, again going back to

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Speaker 1: that alphabet suit we talked about, therapists have all kinds

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Speaker 1: of letters behind their names, and so we know what

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Speaker 1: that means, but the general public doesn't necessarily know what

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Speaker 1: all of those letters and certifications mean. So if for

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Speaker 1: someone who maybe has decided I do need some additional support,

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Speaker 1: I need some help right now, what is the first

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Speaker 1: step that they should take in trying to find the

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Speaker 1: provider that's going to be a good match for them.

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Speaker 1: It's so spot on, Dr joy One. We're asking people

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Speaker 1: to know why they don't feel okay and and maybe

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Speaker 1: some people do, but then also know what they should

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Speaker 1: do about it, who they should see, is it covered

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Speaker 1: under their insurance, and then making an appointment. So we're

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Speaker 1: working really hard as CBS Health et not to remove

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Speaker 1: those barriers. And so one of the first things to

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Speaker 1: think about is if you have insurance through your employer,

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Speaker 1: is to contact your e a P or Employees Assistance

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Speaker 1: Program That is a perfect place to start because that

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Speaker 1: e a P is going to help you look at

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Speaker 1: what's the issue, what kind of support do you need,

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Speaker 1: and who might be most ideal for you to see

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Speaker 1: in getting that support, because it might be a licensed

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Speaker 1: social worker, it might be a psychologist, it might be

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. But that e a P resource can help

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Speaker 1: you do that. For anyone who doesn't have insurance or

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Speaker 1: it's like I don't know how to navigate this, you

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Speaker 1: can utilize and call our ETNA freeline Resources for Living

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Speaker 1: and will help you do that. We'll have a clinician

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Speaker 1: help understand what is it you're trying to solve, what

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Speaker 1: is the issue? Do you have insurance or not? And

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Speaker 1: if you don't, will help you with resources and who

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Speaker 1: would it be best for you to see in your community.

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Speaker 1: So that's a second way to do that, and the

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Speaker 1: third is to contact If you do have insurance and

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Speaker 1: it is through your employer or you've gotten it off

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Speaker 1: the local marketplace, you can contact your primary care provider

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Speaker 1: or your nurse that you have seen and ask them

434
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: for resources available within your community. Not to mcgnolty. Can

435
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: you give us the number for the Resources for Living?

436
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: I can, so for information, you can contact us at

437
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: CVS health dot com forward slash second Curve, or for

438
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: our Resources for Living line that's open to anyone, no

439
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: insurance needed. You can contact Resources for Living at eight

440
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: three three three to seven two three eight six perfect

441
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: and we will be sure to include all of that

442
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: in the show notes. So, something else that we know

443
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: comes up quite often is that the people in our

444
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: lives are able to teal we're struggling, sometimes before we are.

445
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: So what kinds of things would you say to someone

446
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: who maybe has someone in their life who may be

447
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: struggling with a mental health concern, How might they be

448
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: to get them connected? And what kinds of questions should

449
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: they may be be asking. Oh, it's so important because

450
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: we all play a role, all of us, not just providers,

451
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: but we as parents and community members and spouse and partners.

452
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: We all play a role. So one of the first

453
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: things I would ask is that people really start to

454
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: listen and notice the health and well being of those

455
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: around them. So we often when our mental health is

456
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: suffering or struggling, give off warning signs, and those signs

457
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: might be that you know, maybe your appearance isn't as

458
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: it normally is you know, maybe maybe you just haven't

459
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: had the energy to take care of yourself. Now you

460
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: might say, well, I'm not seen so and so are

461
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: people as much. But you know, maybe if you see

462
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: him over zoom, et cetera, or you hear it in

463
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: their voice, their voices maybe sounding hopeless or lesson engaged,

464
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: or someone is backing away from commitments, they decided not

465
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: to join in a group activity, or seem disinterested. A

466
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: person might be sleeping a lot or not sleeping. We

467
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: see people who become agitated or angry or not able

468
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: to be consoled, and we find people that when they're

469
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: really stressed often say statements like you know what, I

470
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: don't think this is worth it, I don't feel like

471
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: I add value, I don't know that I want to live.

472
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: It's any of those. Sometimes it's not as blatant as

473
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: I don't know that I want to live, but it's

474
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: any of those things can be signs, and what we

475
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: need to do as as a support community is to

476
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: have bold conversations and have the courage to say, hey,

477
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, I noticed you seem really agitated and I'm

478
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: I'm asking out of care and concern. How are you

479
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: I mean, how are you really? I want to know?

480
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: And when we do that with an open mind and

481
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: empathetic and really showing up, what we see is people

482
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: will tell you. And then we help people. If they say,

483
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, I am not good, we help them get

484
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: those resources. And I know it's hard for people to

485
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: have these conversations, but what we know, Dr Joy is

486
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: these conversations saved lives. Mm hmmm, yeah, such valuable information.

487
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: And I agree with you, doctor men. It is all

488
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: of our responsibility to make sure that we are paying

489
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: attention to you and really listening when we ask people

490
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: how they're doing, especially right now. M hmm. Absolutely. Yeah.

491
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: So you've already offered such incredible information. Is there anything

492
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: else you feel like you'd like to add related to

493
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: how our community can get some additional mental health support

494
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: right now if they needed. What I would say is

495
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: I would encourage if you yourself need support or someone

496
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: you love, please check out Resources for Living. We have

497
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: great clinicians, local community resources and support materials for you

498
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: to help with the struggles that you're experiencing now as

499
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: a result of COVID and other civil unrest. So check

500
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 1: out those resources for living. Number two is to know

501
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: that you're not alone and it is okay not to

502
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: be Okay, we're not all going to feel great all

503
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: the time. We are going through a really hard pandemic,

504
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: a lot of social unrest, and there is support. You

505
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: do not have to do this alone. And finally, it's

506
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: really important to remember that you are essential to your family,

507
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: to your community, to your loved ones, and so we

508
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: need to take care of our own health well being

509
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: as best as we can, because when we do, we

510
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: add so much to the richness of the communities which

511
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: we live, work, and play. Wonderful. Thank you so much

512
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: for that, Dr and mcnilty, it's my absolute pleasure. Thank

513
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: you for having me. Thank you so much for joining

514
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: us again. Dr Robinson, thank you for having me. Yeah. So,

515
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: in addition to being an expert in all things grief

516
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: and supporting your clients there, you also have an entire

517
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: agency dedicated to helping therapists with their insurance claims. Can

518
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about that. Absolutely so.

519
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: Mastering insurance from mental health professionals I created to address

520
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: this issue that many therapists have on whether to take

521
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: insurance or not take insurance. Really, how to master that process?

522
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: That they can make the best decisions for not only

523
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: their practice, but how to help clients who either have

524
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: insurance or don't navigate accessing care. Yeah, the entire insurance

525
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: topic I think can be frustrating for both clients and therapists.

526
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: You know, it is the number one complaint that we

527
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: hear from people who even try to use our therapist directories,

528
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: that they are searching through therapists and they may find

529
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: one that they think they'd be a great fit with,

530
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: and then the therapist doesn't accept their insurance. So can

531
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: you tell us about the whole process of whether a

532
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: therapist decides to accept insurance or maybe is even eligible

533
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: to accept insurance. Yeah. So, sometimes, depending on the licensure

534
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: type or status of the clinician, they may actually not

535
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: be recognized as an approved provider by the insurance company. Now,

536
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 1: this does not mean in any way that they're not

537
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: a valid health care provider. It just means that some

538
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: insurance companies have certain licensure requirements. And so, for example,

539
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: Medicare does not accept licensed professional counselors, which I am,

540
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: and so I would not be able to accept medic here,

541
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: and so that would be a potential barrier for someone

542
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: wanting to use their insurance. But other things that may

543
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: impact that process other than licensure type might be networks

544
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: sometimes are closed in certain areas, right, and so some

545
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: insurance companies might say, we have enough providers who are

546
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: in network, we're not currently accepting new clinicians to provide

547
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: service to our clients. So that could create an access

548
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: where you're provider might be interested in joining the network,

549
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: but the insurance company's panel to join isn't open. Other

550
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: things that we hear quite often might be the reimbursement rates,

551
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: and so this is what your insurance company will pay

552
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: that clinician for that clinical hour or whatever the session

553
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: lens is. And sometimes those rates just are offensive sometimes right,

554
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: to be quite honest, it feels offensive. Or therapists trying

555
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: to run a sustainable business right and being able to

556
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: provide really good care. And then there are some limitation

557
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: that we experience and we are in network, such as

558
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: there's some plans that only allow us to see clients

559
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: for sixty minutes if they have certain diagnoses, and there's

560
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: a lot of coops that we might have to jump

561
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: through in order to get those sessions to prove which

562
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: as you can imagine takes a lot of time, and

563
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: so sometimes it's the administrative load that does cost that

564
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: creates a barrier on whether or not a provider can

565
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: accept that certain insurance company, a certain insurance plan or not.

566
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: And so many providers may choose to be out of

567
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: network because there are access issues if you are an

568
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: in network provider, as well as the administrative load of

569
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: just managing and maintaining those contracts. Yeah, and I think

570
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: that that is often what happens, especially for therapists who

571
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: are in a solo practice right or maybe working in

572
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: a practice in addition to a full time job, is

573
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: that I often hear that they just don't necessarily have

574
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: the band with other resources to be able to keep

575
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: up with all of the administrative pieces related to accepting

576
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: in network insurance. Yes, it can be quite challenging, you know,

577
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: as I have an entire agency dedicated to it. So

578
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: it really is can be a full time job in

579
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: an of itself, and so that definitely is a barrier

580
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: when we just want to do the thing we're really

581
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: good at, which is really helped clients heal. And so

582
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: that's if you're on the phone, you know, trying to

583
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: check benefits and following up on claims and figuring out

584
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: all the interesting denial clothes that can be a barrier.

585
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: Two clinicians being able to actually work for clients and

586
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: Dr Robinson, can you talk about when you use your

587
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: insurance as a client, is the therapist required to give

588
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: you a diagnosis with something in order for the claim

589
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: to be approved? Is that true or not? It is true.

590
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: So all insurance companies have a process or a procedure

591
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: called medical necessity. And so this is true whether you're

592
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: going to urgent care or primary care doctor, oh did

593
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: you buy in? And mental health there has to be

594
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: a medically necessary reason that services are required. And so

595
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: sometimes this is challenging because you might need support to

596
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: navigate the stress, the overwhelmed, whatever you're experiencing. But it

597
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: doesn't meet clinical levels of disruption in your quality of

598
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: life that makes it medically necessary, right, So could you

599
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: benefit from support? Yes, based on the standards that we

600
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: have to adhere to, most commonly referenced under the D

601
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: S and five, it doesn't meet the criteria for a

602
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: clinical disorder. But if it does, that's what we have

603
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: to decide. Is there a mental health diagnosis that better

604
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: explains what you're experiencing, such as depression or anxiety or

605
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: PTSD that would necessitate intervention and treatment. And so a

606
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: mental health provider has to be able to justify building

607
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: insurance company, building an insurance company for the services provided.

608
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: So it does render a diagnosis, sometimes a sudgustment that

609
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: you know, a disorder that many people see this rather mild,

610
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: and it could be BiPOL low or some other diagnosis.

611
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: But everyone that's using mental health or benefit stilling insurance

612
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: will be a scienti diagnosis. And does insurance cover V codes?

613
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: So ve codes in the DS and five or things

614
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: like bereavement or phase of life is the one that

615
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: I think I hear most often will insurance dictate that

616
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: as a medical necessity? Most insurance companies do not. There

617
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: are a few exceptions, There are few and far in between.

618
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: This is actually the challenge that we have with individuals

619
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: seeking couples counselings. So insurance companies actually don't recognize couples.

620
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: There's no code to build for couples. It's build under

621
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: family therapy. Some insurance companies don't consider couples family therapy right,

622
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: and most couples don't actually have a clinical diagnosis, right,

623
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: and so what do we list? We have to pick

624
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: one person in a couple, identify if they have a diagnosis,

625
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: and build under that person. And so that gets really

626
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: tricky because we might be towing the line there on

627
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: whether or not we're forcing medical necessity because a Z

628
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: code or a decode now is whether they're called, is

629
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: a better fit. But we know that the V code

630
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: is going to be denied, and so some therapists, Um,

631
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: again that's maybe very valid, but in some ways is

632
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: towing the interesting one on are we forcing medical necessity

633
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: so that we can create access to care? And so

634
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: that's a big debate in you know, building for couples.

635
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: Why many therapists do not build because most times a

636
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: V code is the better fit and most insurance companies

637
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: don't cover those services, or because they're not considered metally necessary,

638
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: which again many therapists do not agree with. But that's um,

639
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: it's not our decision in many cases, right, right. And

640
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: the other thing that I have heard from people who

641
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: maybe want to use insurance more but are afraid of

642
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: things being on their record. So do you know of

643
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: any cases where having a diagnosis of maybe like a

644
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: depressive disorder or bipolar disorder or anything has stopped people

645
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: from being able to get a job or qualify for things. Yes,

646
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: I want to just preface and say this is not

647
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: as pervasive as we I think we believe it might be.

648
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: But there are some situations in which this could be

649
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: very relevant and have an impact. And so I'll start

650
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: with the ones that are most common. And so if

651
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: you have a federal clearance, so if you work for

652
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: the federal government, that you have federal clearance, it is

653
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: not the fact that it's on your medical record. It's

654
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: the fact that you are often required to submit and

655
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: release the information if you've had psychiatric or mental health care.

656
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: And so it's not that you're receiving treatment alone, it's

657
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: the conditions in which you are employed. And so our

658
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: military traditionally have always had this as a potential thing.

659
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: Although there's some laws that are supposed to protect them,

660
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: we know that laws are upheld by people who don't

661
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: always honor those things, and so that can continue to

662
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: be a potential barrier an employer could ask, especially if

663
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: you have a position where usually it's federal clearances, where

664
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 1: those are most likely to be requested. The other way

665
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: in which an employer might find that information. Let's say

666
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: you work for a small company. The insurance company each

667
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: year sends an aggregative report, so it doesn't have your

668
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: individual information on it. But let's say you are the

669
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: only person of a certain demographic, right, so I could

670
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: be the only black woman, and so it may include,

671
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, things such as age, demographic diagnosis, number of

672
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: frequency of use. Right. What they're trying to understand is

673
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: what is the risk profile of your employees, and those

674
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: things factor into how much your insurance premiums cost. Okay,

675
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: So in those cases, if you're at a very small company,

676
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: are you are a unique demographic, your information could be

677
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: identifiable because there's enough markers that single you out, but

678
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: your name wouldn't be listed on that report per se.

679
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: Other instances in which I've seen this occur is when

680
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: individuals apply for life insurance, and almost commonly when it's

681
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 1: life insurance over a certain threshold, So often I see

682
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: it triggered. Sometimes that's three thousand dollar mark and above.

683
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: They may ask. It's less common in states that have

684
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: a suicide writer to suicide itself isn't a condition that

685
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: invalidates your life insurance and so that may be an

686
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: instance in which you're applying for life insurance and they

687
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: request a request or release for mental health records. So

688
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: those are the scenariosm which it's most common to occur.

689
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: Got it. So that I think is the reason why

690
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: we will hear some people who have maybe federal jobs

691
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: or other jobs like that, even if they have insurance,

692
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: will decide that I don't actually want to use my

693
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: insurance and we'll just pay out a pocket that's corressed.

694
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: Or even folks without those conditions work kind of place settings.

695
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: If they believe that they have a psychiatric or personality disorder,

696
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: they won't want that on their record, right, regardless of

697
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: where they are, so they may still opt out of

698
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: the process. And so yes, I completely agree, mm hmm.

699
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: And so we hear about this record, right, and I

700
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: don't know that we always know what that means. So

701
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: where is our medical record stored? Like who has access

702
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: to that? It depends on your therapist, your provider. And

703
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: so we use an electronic health record, which means our

704
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: information and all of our patients information is stored in

705
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: an electronic encryptic cloud, right, And so that's what we use.

706
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: But some therapists still take paper notes, and so you

707
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: have a file, whether it's a digital or paper that

708
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: has your name on it that it's kept in a

709
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: confidential space, usually behind a locked cabinet, and everything that

710
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: has happened that is clinically relevant might be in that file.

711
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: So your intake, your you know, emergency contact information, notes

712
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: from your individual sessions, things of that nature, and so

713
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: we're required to maintain those notes for however many years

714
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: in Maryland at seven to ten years, depending on if

715
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: you're under eighteen or over eighteen. Each state has their

716
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: own requirements about how long a provider has to keep

717
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: that medical record. And the only reason anyone else would

718
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: have access to that record is if you signed a

719
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: release for us to be able to release some parts

720
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: of that information for whatever reason you decide you want

721
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: to have it released. Correct. Yes, mostly so your therapist

722
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: or if you're seeing an organization like my own. They're

723
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: very limited pieces of information that let's say my bilot

724
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: has access too, but it wouldn't be the details of

725
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: your session, right. But outside of that, you would have

726
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: to consent or provide a release of information unless we're

727
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: talking about children, and then of course the parent has

728
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: the right to access that file. Right. I'm guessing the

729
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: health insurance plans themselves have a database when like the

730
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: therapists are sending in their claims, they have a database

731
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: of like the diagnosis and like the dates of attendance,

732
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: but they don't necessarily have access to your entire files. Correct,

733
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: that's wonder a question. So technically, when you consent to

734
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,720
Speaker 1: use your health insurance to cover services, the health insurance

735
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: company can come back and say, we want to audit

736
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: that medical record to ensure that the service provided meets

737
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: medical necessity. And so the way that that clinician documents

738
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: medical necessity, and it starts at the very first session, right,

739
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: so that intake all the way through, every single session

740
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: must document medical necessity consistently, or the insurance company can

741
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: come and audit that. Violence says, when you set this

742
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: person meets the criteria for bipolar, but nothing in the

743
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: way that you are documenting treatment and progress indicates that

744
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: you're treating bipolar based on the gold standards that we have,

745
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: we're not capturing symptomology, we're not capturing changes and functioning

746
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: things of that nature, So we don't have proof that

747
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: you are providing medically necessary services to the insurance company

748
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: may come back and say now that therapist owes money

749
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: from all of the sessions they paid for because medical

750
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: necessity is an evident. This is another reason that therapists

751
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: may not want to accept insurance because audits can happen,

752
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes in therapists feel like they don't exactly know

753
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: what insurance companies want, what medical necessity actually looks like

754
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: from a documentation perspective, and that they can just recruit

755
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: the farms. And so if that therapist is receiving E

756
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: f T or direct deposits for their payments, the insurance

757
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: company will just come back into that account and take

758
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: the money. And so that that can feel very disruptive,

759
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: right to someone trying to provide therapy and known that

760
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: this could happen at any times, it can be a

761
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: big deterrent for many therapists. And so, because you consented

762
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: to use your insurance to pay for those sessions, in

763
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: your contract with your insurance company, it says that they

764
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: have the right to review any notes from treatment, and

765
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: so technically the entrance company, you've given them legal right

766
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: to review that note. Wow, I don't think I knew

767
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: that one of the things that we do as therapists

768
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: to kind of protect and safeguard that information. It's although

769
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: the insurance company has the right to ask for that file,

770
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: we often will come back one will notify our client that, hey,

771
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 1: the insurance company has asked for this information. At that

772
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: time they can choose to go back and pay for

773
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: all of those out of pocket and withdraw that claim

774
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: for coverage so that we don't have to release to note.

775
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: But often times and UH therapists can submit a treatment summary,

776
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: so instead of releasing every individual note, we will write

777
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: a summary of treatment thus far, and that might include

778
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: the diagnosis, how many times we've seen you it, changes

779
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: we've noticed in symptomology, what instruments are using to capture

780
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: those changes, and progress that's being made in future plans? Right,

781
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: But again think about that that traditional time that the

782
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: therapist has to take to write that letter, and our

783
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: goal is to continue to keep your information confidential. But

784
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: it's another thing that the therapists does have to kind

785
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: of tackle and make time for, which again can be

786
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: a barrier. Mm hmmm. And do you know if there

787
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: are any certain things that would happen that might trigger

788
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: an audit or is it kind of just you know, random.

789
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: One thing that I want to add about that other

790
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: point is is that because this is a big myth

791
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: is that people fake because they're out of network, that

792
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: they're not subject to an audit because the contract is

793
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: actually truly between the client and the insurance company. And

794
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: so let's say you come to me for out of

795
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: network services, you pay me directly, but you seek reimbursement

796
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: by submitting a super bill, right, a medical receipt for

797
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: the insurance company to reimburse you. That also opens the

798
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: gateway for those notes to be released. So the only

799
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: way to truly protect them from an insurance audit is

800
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: to pay out a pocket and not seek reinborsement. So

801
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: I just wanted to close the loop on that because

802
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: it's a area that therapists who are out of network

803
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: thinks that their notes can't be audited, and that is

804
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: not the case if that client seeks reimbursements, got it, Okay? Okay?

805
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, so anything in particular that might trigger an audit,

806
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: So from a fair perspective, the overuse of an adjustment code.

807
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: So if you have the majority of your clients that

808
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: you diagnose with adjustment to codes, for an insurance company,

809
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: that will trigger an audit. For certain insurance companies utilizing

810
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: the CPT code nine oh eight three seven, you will

811
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: get a utilization review. They're calling you utilization review, but

812
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: it's an audit, and so they're wanting to review why

813
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: you are holding sessions, all sessions at that length, because

814
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: of course they're wanting you to hold shorter sessions. Maybe

815
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: that's forty five minute code. Some insurance companies want that

816
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: longer code that nine O three seven reserved for more

817
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: severe cases. Right, so individuals who have high suicidality or

818
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: PTSD things of that nature, or recent hostilizations. Right, So

819
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: those night trigger an audit, and then the other ones

820
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: are generally just random. And so from subtle insurance companies

821
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: such as Medicaid, medicare through periodic audits, and so if

822
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 1: you're in network with them, you should expect to be audited.

823
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: Commercial insurance companies, they're usually random, unless unless a client

824
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: has complained, and then that can that you on the

825
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: audit list as well. Okay, and so something else you

826
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier is that a claim could be denied if

827
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: they don't see that what you've said actually meets the

828
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: criteria for medical necessity? Are there other reasons why claims

829
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: might be denied When you let's say you are a

830
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: therapist in network, you've kind of checked it all out

831
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: ahead of time, but then you file a couple of

832
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: claims and then you get information that these have been denied.

833
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: What are some reasons that the claims might be denied?

834
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So one of the big race these claims

835
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: are denied is because clients have another insurance plan that's

836
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: not actually primary. And so it's so important that clients

837
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: tell us that you have more than one plan. So

838
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: they may have let's say their own plans through their job,

839
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: and they're under their spouses plans. Well, we need to

840
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: know that both plans exist, whether we're in network of

841
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: both plans or not. So let's say, for example, you

842
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: have ETNA and you have Blue Cross the Shield and

843
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: Blue Cross the Shield is secondary, right, but I'm not

844
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: in network with ETNA, so you only give me the

845
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: Blue Cross the Shield card. Well, Blue Cross the Shoot

846
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: is gonna come back and say we're not primary. You

847
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: have to submit to EDNA first, So EDNA might deny

848
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: it and then Blue Cross the Shield will pick it up.

849
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: But you have to send it to the primary before

850
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: secondary will pick it up. So that's one of the

851
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: pretty consistent reasons that denials happen, is that we've submitted

852
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: to the wrong company, right first. The other reason might

853
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: be that, well, whatever reason, let's say a plan does

854
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: not cover a certain diagnosis. There are some plans that

855
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 1: do not cover family therapy, a couple of counseling. Right,

856
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: They do not cover adjustment disorder as a medically necessary diagnosis.

857
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: These plans usually tend to be self funded plans. They

858
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: might be funded directly by the employer. In those plans,

859
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: they do not have to adhere to the Affordable Care

860
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: Act provisions treating mental health as parity. Right. So those

861
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: are reasons that it might deny. Sometimes it denies because

862
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: the client has a marketplace plan. So they went on

863
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: be afforda here asks, you know, the marketplace website for

864
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: their their state. They sign up for insurance, but there's

865
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, there's a delay. So let's say their

866
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: payment decline one day and technically they don't have insurance. Well,

867
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: insurance company could deny it because in their system it

868
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: hasn't caught up. At that second time they ran your card,

869
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: it went through so it's still showing that your inactive.

870
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: Those are the three common reasons that claims might be

871
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: denied is that the type of service provided isn't covered,

872
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: or you don't have insurance, or it's you have another

873
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: plan that should be built first. So this all really

874
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: sounds like it is important, and I think this is

875
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: a large part of why it can be so frustrating

876
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: as a consumer to try to figure all of this

877
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: stuff out right, Like a lot of this is written

878
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: in terminology that is really really complicated. Are there tips

879
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: that you have for people about how they can kind

880
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: of do as best they can to advocate for themselves

881
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: and like what kinds of things should they be considering

882
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: if they're looking for a health insurance plan. M hm.

883
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: So one of the number one things that I will

884
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: will say for for folks signing up for health insurance

885
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: plans is if it is any way suitable financially or

886
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: otherwise for you to choose a PPO or an open

887
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: access plan, I would choose that over an h M.

888
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: Although that may give you a lower premium, it also

889
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: restricts your access one of the things of HMO plans

890
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: do not have that. PPO and open access plans do

891
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: is more robust out of network services or reimbursements. So

892
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 1: if your therapist doesn't take insurance on a PPO or

893
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: a POS plan, the plan is more likely to pay

894
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: more for those services, which reduces your out of pocket

895
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: costs for those services that you might be paying out

896
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: of pocket. You also increase the likelihood that if it's

897
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 1: a PPO plan, that you're going to find more therapists

898
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: who are in network because you're sharing in that premium cost,

899
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: which means the reimbursement rates for the providers are more

900
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: likely to be acceptable. Right, so more providers are more

901
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: likely to be a network in that regard. The other

902
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: piece is just that you really want to understand what

903
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 1: your plan covers, and so although your therapist might verify

904
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: your benefits, you want to understand what to expect and

905
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: so things you want to ask about is if your

906
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: plan has a deductible, does it apply to an office

907
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: mental health services, because sometimes we think that it doesn't

908
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: because you see a co pay or specialists, but sometimes

909
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: they because they're specialists, they treat us as specialists, the

910
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 1: deductible was more likely to apply to us in our services.

911
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: So that means that until you hit that deductible, you

912
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: have a higher out of pocket costs as well, so

913
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: pay attention to that. You may also want to just

914
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: ask if they cover family therapy or if they cover

915
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: adjustment disorder. They will give you that parliamentary information. They

916
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: always will say, you know, we can give preliminary information.

917
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: There's no guarantee, but they will tell you know what

918
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: they don't, right, And so I just encourage everyone to

919
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: to call for yourself and ask those questions. That piece

920
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: is really important. Yeah, and do you have resources for people?

921
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I know most people kind of if they

922
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: have insurance probably get it through their employer. Are their

923
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: resources that you would suggest for people who may be

924
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: self employed are looking to just kind of get insurance

925
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: on their own. Absolutely, so the marketplace is a good place.

926
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: The marketplace will also connect you for free with an

927
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: insurance broker in your state, and so it doesn't cost

928
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: you anything to work with an instruments broker and so

929
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: they often can you meet with you and talk about

930
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: what your unique needs are and they will filter through

931
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: the plans that meet those needs. And so instead of

932
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: you looking at the seventy five plans that the marketplace

933
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: will say is available, you're broker can narrow that down

934
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: to maybe the top ten for you to review and

935
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: can really help you understand the coverage limits again that

936
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: are important for your unique needs, and so they can

937
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: look at things such as the pharmacy formulary. Right, So

938
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: if you take a medication I have asthma, I want

939
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: to know whether or not my inhaler and something that

940
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: I get every single month is going to be considered

941
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: a higher cope on the formulary or lower cope because

942
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: that affects my overall day to day cost. Right, your

943
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: broker can help talk you through those different things and

944
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: really find plans that meet their needs and it's a

945
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: hundred percent free for you. If you are self employed

946
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: like I am, you may look at going through your

947
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: payroll software and so I use Swear for payroll. They

948
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: have plans or access to plans that are built in

949
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: that they're able to leverage their size as the organization

950
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: to get you better rates for both you and your employees.

951
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: You also can look at your professional organizations. So I

952
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,439
Speaker 1: belong to NIRS and Council Association. They have some life

953
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: insurance and other things that I can leverage because I'm

954
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: a member of their association, and so those are places

955
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: that I would look. Outside of those places, your Department

956
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services is always a great source

957
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: of information. Perfect. Thank you so much for that. So

958
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: is there anything that we haven't covered that you think

959
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: is important for people to know about health insurance and

960
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: using their benefits. I think that covers that. That was

961
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: pretty thorough. I just want to just say to not

962
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: be afraid to use your benefits. I know that it

963
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: can be convoluted. There are a ton of us who

964
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: do accept insurance, but to do your best to inform

965
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: yourself about the process, you stay in communications with your

966
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: therapists if anything changes. I think that piece is really

967
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: important just to keep in mind. Yeah, and I think

968
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: we may want to kind of spend a little bit

969
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 1: of time talking about the frustration of not being able

970
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: to find somebody in network. Right, So do you have

971
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: suggestions for people who may be kind of doing this

972
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: search and they, you know, find all these therapists, but

973
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: nobody's in network. What should they maybe then do after that?

974
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: So I might reach out again understanding what you're out

975
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: of network finness its are, because you still can utilize

976
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: that to decrease your out of pocket costs. They're also

977
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: therapists who maybe on websites such as better help or

978
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: top space, that have already agreed to offer fighting scale.

979
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: You may just reach out to the therapists themselves. They

980
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: may have a built in fighting feel for you. I

981
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: also think I don't buy into this notion that you

982
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: would pay for it if you value it, because some

983
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: people truly cannot afford two hundred dollars a week right

984
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: for the care that they need, although they understand that

985
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: it's important and so, but you may want to look

986
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: at where you can move things in your budget. Right

987
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: if you have a health insurance plan that has an

988
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: s s A account so flexibile state spending account or

989
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: health savings account, those accounts can be utilized to pay

990
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: for the out of network services that you are looking for.

991
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: The other places is that you can look at the

992
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: insurance directory for a list of in network providers, and

993
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: so that's a wonderful place to look. The challenge might

994
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: be that in network providers might also be full because

995
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: we accept insurance and so just continue to reach out

996
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: when we are full. We often refer to colleagues that

997
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 1: we know have availability that are also in network, and

998
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: so don't be afraid to reach out to therapist. If

999
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: they can't help you, many of us will try and

1000
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: connect with someone who can. So what of group therapy

1001
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: does health insurance tend to pay for group therapy? It depends,

1002
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: So it really depends on the type of group that

1003
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: is occurring. And so there are process last psychotherapy groups.

1004
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: Insurance company covers those, and then there are support groups,

1005
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: and so it really depends on the type of group

1006
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: that's being offered. And so therapist need to understand this

1007
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: as well, because I give this question from them a lot.

1008
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: I want to run this group, I'm in network, Do

1009
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: I have to take insurance? And so it really boils

1010
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: down to what's happening. So things that we want to

1011
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: consider about whether or not your insurance might cover it,

1012
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: or whether or not you have to take insurance if

1013
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: you're the provider, is who's facilitating the group? And I

1014
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: don't mean yes, the therapist is going to be there,

1015
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: We're gonna be holding the same and maintaining confidentiality or

1016
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: safe space. But our group members able to lead conversations

1017
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: and discussions or activities. Right, where is all of the

1018
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: focus coming from and the planning happening from the therapist.

1019
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: If it is is, it doesn't really matter that you're

1020
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: calling it a support group because you're running a psychotherapy group, right.

1021
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: We also want to think about how are we screening

1022
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: for people who are eligible for the group. Are we

1023
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: using diagnosis as a factor. If we are, we're running

1024
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: a group that insurance, if we're in network, we should

1025
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: be building them for So there's a few other things,

1026
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: but it really depends on what's being offered and who's

1027
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: eligible because those are usually criterion that may or may

1028
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: not be depicted based on things that we use to

1029
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: determine diagnosis. And so the more we're likely using those measurements,

1030
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: the more likely we are running psychotherapy groups. And those

1031
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: do are covered by insurance. Yes, insurance covers groups and

1032
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: most of them do. Got it, Yeah, And I think

1033
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: that that's an additional way that you know, a therapist

1034
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: who has a full individual case though maybe also running

1035
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: a group that you can ask about. So that's another alternative,

1036
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: you know. And usually it's cheaper in a lot of

1037
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: cases for a group than it is individual absolutely, and

1038
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: that creates access. We do that a lot for people

1039
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: who otherwise would not be able to afford individual but

1040
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: once supporting community, and you're right, it also can free

1041
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: a clinician who's otherwise school up because they can learn

1042
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: a group into as most people that way. So I

1043
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: know that therapists are looking for alternatives. So a lot

1044
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: of therapists are using Zoom or other virtual avenues to

1045
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: meet with clients. But some therapists are offering walk ins

1046
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: on therapy, and a lot of therapists, actually we're offering

1047
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: this even before the pandemic. Is something like that covered

1048
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: by insurance, yes, So that's a mobality, right, So that's

1049
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: the method through which therapy is provided, and that part,

1050
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: if there's evidence that it is effective, insurances and regulating

1051
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: that right. And so the piece that's important prior to

1052
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: COVID was that you started profession, so you met at

1053
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: the office, you did your walking in, your in depression

1054
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 1: at the office. In that case, you could put your

1055
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: office as the location which services were delivered. Because we

1056
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: are now in this COVID space and most of us

1057
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: provide services virtually, you just put the telehealth service, right,

1058
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: so that is the place of service code would just

1059
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: be telehealth. You no longer have to start and stop

1060
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: at the office. And so that piece is really important,

1061
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: and yes, I get that question all the time. It

1062
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: is really really important that that clients sign a constant

1063
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: form for walking Talk therapy because unlike being in the

1064
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: office or being virtually at your home or wherever you are,

1065
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: we can't help maintain confidentiality. So we might be walking

1066
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: and you see someone that recognizes you, right, and they

1067
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: see you with us, and you may not want to

1068
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: tell them how you know us or what our relationship is.

1069
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: But we can't prevent those things because we are out

1070
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: in the open, right. We just want to know and

1071
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: understand the different types of confidentiality or things that change

1072
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: when we use walk and talk therapy. But it's very effective.

1073
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: Nothing changes about, you know, really the way that we intervene.

1074
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: We just have a different vehicle to deliver the service.

1075
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: And so yep, inter companies. You know. The other thing

1076
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: that I have heard some kind least talk about is

1077
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: parking lot therapy. So like they will be in a

1078
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: parking lot and the client will be in the parking

1079
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: lot too, and they're kind of talking on the phone

1080
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: so they can still see one another, but it's you know,

1081
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: in the safety of their own cars. Yeah, people are

1082
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: just getting very getting very creative right now, right and

1083
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: in the ways that we're trying to serve our clients absolutely,

1084
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: so that brings up this caveat right. And so telehealth

1085
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: is covered pretty universally with COVID. That was not always

1086
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,439
Speaker 1: the case for every insurance company prior to that walk

1087
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 1: and talk therapy is happening. It is important to understand

1088
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: and this is the therapists and clients that will we

1089
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: understand that it is important for telehealth that most insurance

1090
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,439
Speaker 1: companies have a requirement that we can both hear you

1091
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: and see you. So phone therapy right is generally not covered.

1092
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: There have been some acceptions made because of COVID, but

1093
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 1: the standard is is that it has to have both

1094
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: audio and visual and that's important because you know, honey,

1095
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: language tells us a lot right about how clients are doing,

1096
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: how they're responding to certain things. We need those visual

1097
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: cues and we'd love to see you right. But it

1098
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: really does inform our work in our practice, and so

1099
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: to the extent that that is possible, we really want

1100
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,959
Speaker 1: to make sure until this car therapy makes sense because

1101
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: it gives me the visual as well as the audio

1102
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: and keeps us all safe. And so I love how

1103
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: innovative we are being at just making mental health the

1104
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: norm inaccessible and I just hope that we continue do this,

1105
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, to engage and to be creative and innovative

1106
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: in the way that we serve. Yes, yes, agree, Yeah,

1107
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: So Dr Robinson, tell us again where we can find you,

1108
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: and also let us know for any therapist who may

1109
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: be listening who may want to use your agency to

1110
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: support them in taking insurance. Can you give us the

1111
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: information for all of those absolutely, so, everything that you

1112
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 1: would possibly want to know about what it is that

1113
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: I do and how I serve you can find at

1114
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: a Jetta Robison dot com. There is a lovely ab

1115
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: that says therapy for those of you seeking services for yourself,

1116
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: for your loved ones and for a therapist. If you're

1117
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: interested in support regarding credentially and billing, whether you're in

1118
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: network or out of networking. Your own company under that

1119
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: same tab around that has worked with me is the

1120
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: Mastering Insurance Company and so it will take you right

1121
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: to that website. We have courses we have done for

1122
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: youth services. We also have a membership program that gives

1123
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: you access to life support and so that is where

1124
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: you can sign me at Jenda Robinson dot com has

1125
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: all that information perfect. Thank you so much again, Dr Robinson,

1126
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so glad Dr McNaughty

1127
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: and Dr Robinson were able to join us for today's conversation.

1128
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,479
Speaker 1: To check out the resources they shared, visit the show

1129
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session

1130
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: and please text two sisters right now and tell them

1131
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: to check out the episode. If there's a topic you'd

1132
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: like to have covered on the podcast, please admit it

1133
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: to us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mailbox.

1134
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: And if you're looking for a therapist in your area,

1135
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: don't forget to check out our therapist directory at Therapy

1136
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. If you want

1137
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic and connect with some

1138
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: other sisters in your area, come on over and join

1139
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a

1140
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just

1141
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for

1142
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank y'all

1143
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

1144
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

1145
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: Take it care