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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.

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Speaker 2: Hell that for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a man, I'm for it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy, you want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 2: Edith State?

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Speaker 1: Is that woo woom? And Dan and Tye welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the solid verbal Boys and girls. My name is

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Speaker 1: ty Hildebrandt. That guy over there, the one, the only, still,

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Speaker 1: the incomparable. Dan Rubinstein, Welcome back to the show. My

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Speaker 1: friend how goes it?

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Speaker 2: It's really good?

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Speaker 3: Tye.

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Speaker 2: Life is good. Had a good Mother's Day weekend. Tie

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Speaker 2: got outside a bunch ate, a bunch of good food

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Speaker 2: and am thrilled to continue our will It Ever Happen?

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Speaker 2: For series? Uh this week with Penn State and What

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Speaker 2: Tennessee later in the week.

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Speaker 1: That is correct. So today it is Ben Jones from

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Speaker 1: Statecollege dot Com. We'll be talking all things Penn State

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Speaker 1: with Dan and I and then on the Thursday episode

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Speaker 1: that we're doing a little later in the week, Austin

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Speaker 1: Price from Volquest. Oh nice, big Tennessee site is going

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Speaker 1: to be stopping on by. Got some great suggestions. We

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Speaker 1: appreciate everybody who wrote in for who we should invite

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Speaker 1: on to talk Tennessee football would be Austin's first appearance

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Speaker 1: on the show, So we're excited to have him with us.

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Speaker 2: Oh, very much excited. What are you excited to talk

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Speaker 2: about with Ben today? Because this is a pretty personal episode,

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Speaker 2: and feel free to sort of throw in whatever housekeeping

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Speaker 2: you need to throw in to this answer, but this

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Speaker 2: is our preamble to the interview. So what are you

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Speaker 2: excited to go through with Ben? Who intimately knows the

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Speaker 2: Penn State program.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Ben does a great job. I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: have him back on the show. Look, I'm the Penn

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Speaker 1: State alum. Between the two of us, there's a reason

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Speaker 1: if you look over my shoulder, you see the street

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Speaker 1: sign from Beaver Avenue and Locust Lane. That's where I

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Speaker 1: used to live.

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Speaker 2: Believe it or not, way way back to Mari's Tie's house.

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Speaker 1: Could say, way back when that was my that was

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Speaker 1: my stomping grounds up at Penn State. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I love when we get a chance to do these

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Speaker 1: types of interviews and have these types of specific team conversations.

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Speaker 1: We're going to keep doing those with Tennessee and other

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Speaker 1: schools here throughout the month of May. I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: the one thing that dawn on me is. I was

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Speaker 1: going through and trying to figure out what I want

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Speaker 1: to ask Ben, what I want to talk to Ben about.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who the leader is of this team. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who the leader is. I know who

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Speaker 1: the names are. I know Drew Aller, Nick Singleton, and

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Speaker 1: Abdul like I know all of these guys. But for

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Speaker 1: a multitude of reasons, I just I want to know

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Speaker 1: who the heartbeat of this team really is. Who is

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Speaker 1: the guy in the big team huddle that's going to

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Speaker 1: get everybody going. Separate from all the questions that I

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Speaker 1: know we have about the offense and Drew Aller and

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Speaker 1: the new offensive system and new defensive system to an

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Speaker 1: extent with Tom Allen, like all that stuff being what

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Speaker 1: it is, I want to know who the heartbeat of

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Speaker 1: the team is, Who's going to get Penn State revved

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Speaker 1: up this season? The other thing that I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to him about. Maybe I'll lead off with this.

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Speaker 1: I've said this to you more times than I could count. Okay,

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Speaker 1: James Franklin, Penn State as a whole are truly the

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Speaker 1: biggest beneficiaries in my opinion, of this new era of

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Speaker 1: college football, where more teams get in the playoff. Even

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Speaker 1: with more teams in the Big Ten, that's not to

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Speaker 1: say that USC and Washington and Oregon playing teams like

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Speaker 1: that is going to make their schedule easier. Thankfully, they

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Speaker 1: do not have to play Oregon this year, which is

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Speaker 1: nice for them, but it also means that with a

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Speaker 1: new schedule, maybe they don't have to deal with both

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Speaker 1: Ohio State and Michigan. You're in year out the way

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Speaker 1: they've had two those have sort of been the blockade

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Speaker 1: of sorts preventing Penn State from achieving greater heights in

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Speaker 1: the Big Ten. And so I'm just curious to get

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Speaker 1: Ben's take on how the program maybe feels about this

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Speaker 1: new world order in the sport. Does it recognize that

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Speaker 1: this is an opportunity to get into the playoff maybe

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Speaker 1: a little bit more easily. You go ten and two,

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Speaker 1: you keep doing what you've been doing that puts you

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Speaker 1: in a pretty good spot in the Year of Our

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Speaker 1: Lord twenty twenty four. So I have bigger picture questions

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Speaker 1: about the program where its place is amidst all of

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Speaker 1: the change around college football, and then specifically, like who's

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Speaker 1: the dude in the huddle just reving people up.

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Speaker 2: Penn State does not play Michigan next season, so this

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Speaker 2: season twenty twenty four they do.

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Speaker 1: They don't play in this year either.

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Speaker 2: Penn State doesn't play Michigan this year either.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, look at that. So no Michigan, no Oregon,

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Speaker 2: no Iowa. Defense to face. Pretty good year for I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's weird. It's a strange year, but it's a decent

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Speaker 2: one for Penn State schedule.

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Speaker 1: It's a strange year, but a decent one in that

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Speaker 1: even though there is some obvious blue blood name action

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Speaker 1: on the schedule, all these teams are in transition. USC

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Speaker 1: in transition to defense, new quarterback. Washington obviously was in

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Speaker 1: the playoff a lot, everytional championship last season, a lot

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Speaker 1: walking out the door. You can go right down the list.

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Speaker 1: Even Wisconsin is still in transition from new leadership, new

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Speaker 1: quarterback situation. Like there is a lot new on this schedule.

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Speaker 1: Ohio State's really the one that you look at and

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Speaker 1: you circle and say, wow that they're not going to

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Speaker 1: be favored in that game, But all the other ones

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Speaker 1: feel like they're out there. For Penn State, if it

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Speaker 1: can get its act together, two new coordinators hopefully bringing

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Speaker 1: drew hour along a little bit more to help realize

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Speaker 1: some of that five star talent that Penn State fans

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Speaker 1: thought they were getting. There is a lot, I think

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Speaker 1: around the Penn State program that makes it one of

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Speaker 1: the more interesting teams to follow twenty twenty four, No

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Speaker 1: question about it.

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Speaker 2: For no protected rival right for Penn State in the

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Speaker 2: way that other schools. I think they're the only Big

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Speaker 2: Ten school without the protect UCLA's usc orgon is Washington, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: Ohio State interesting. It's quite interesting that Penn State will

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Speaker 2: technically play the most varied schedule in the future Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so look, if you are just finding us, hit follow,

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Speaker 1: hit subscribe on your podcasting app of choice. Out on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: We drop two episodes a week throughout the offseason. As

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Speaker 1: we get a little bit closer to the actual season,

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Speaker 1: start doing previews and whatnot. In the month of July,

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Speaker 1: we'll switch it up to at least three episodes a week.

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Speaker 1: Our website soliverbo dot com. That's where we've also been

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Speaker 1: posting some of the clips that we're putting out on

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Speaker 1: social media and whatnot. We are starting to rev the

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Speaker 1: engines up a little bit here as we get deeper

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Speaker 1: into the month of May. Let's turn it over to

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Speaker 1: our good friend Ben Jones from statecollege dot Com Dan

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Speaker 1: and talk about things Penn State. Shall we definitely? All right?

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Speaker 1: Dan joining us now from statecollege dot Com. We're bringing

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Speaker 1: him back to the show. Ben Jones here to talk

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Speaker 1: any and all things Penn State football. Ben, how are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, guys, Thank you for doing this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is holding Penn State back?

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Speaker 2: Get right into it.

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Speaker 1: What is holding this team back? I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: the most interesting thing that we can start with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I mean I

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Speaker 3: think to a certain extent, you know, the fact that

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Speaker 3: Penn State gets to the Ohio State Michigan game every year,

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Speaker 3: and that game means something sort of states that Penn

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Speaker 3: State is at least a threat in the Big Ten theoretically. Now,

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Speaker 3: what's holding them back? You know? I think that's the

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Speaker 3: ten million dollar a year question at this point for

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Speaker 3: Penn State. Is the sort of idea that they're recruiting

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Speaker 3: really well, they're winning all the games that they ought to,

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Speaker 3: They're getting to the games that you should be in.

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Speaker 3: If you're a program like Penn State, but they really

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Speaker 3: are having a hard time winning those games at all

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Speaker 3: and or consistently. And I think that comes down to

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Speaker 3: a lot of different things that each year you can

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Speaker 3: sort of explain it away as, oh, they had some

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Speaker 3: injuries at one point, or you know, Michigan went on

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Speaker 3: to win a national title. You know, these things here

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Speaker 3: or there where you go, they were just a little

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Speaker 3: bit better, you know. I think there's a narrative out

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Speaker 3: there that James Franklin's not good in these big games.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's really the case. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Penn State's been competitive in most all them, has had

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Speaker 3: a chance to win a lot of them, and I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of the times when it comes down

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Speaker 3: to so why did they lose, I don't know that

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Speaker 3: it was a decision. I think it was more execution

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Speaker 3: or a little bit of luck here or there. So

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Speaker 3: what are they missing? I don't know that anybody really knows.

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Speaker 3: But I think, you know, that's the hard part is

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Speaker 3: it's everything. I think that's what James Franklin says a

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Speaker 3: lot is to win those games, you have to be

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Speaker 3: good at everything, and the offseason you have to be

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Speaker 3: good at everything. In season, you have to be good

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Speaker 3: in those games. And you know, I talked to Julian Fleming.

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Speaker 3: He's been an interesting sort of insight into so what

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Speaker 3: did Ohio State do? Well, you know, whatever you want

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Speaker 3: to say about Julian Fleming's time at Ohio State, he

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Speaker 3: was in that football building for years, and Ohio State's

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Speaker 3: obviously figured out a lot of things, and he's talked

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Speaker 3: a lot about all the little details matter, all the

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Speaker 3: little consistencies matter, all those little things matter. And I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, is that Penn State's problem. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think at the end of the day, when you're playing

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Speaker 3: really good teams, the margin freerr is very small, and

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Speaker 3: Pens for the most part, has not been on the

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Speaker 3: right side of that margin for air.

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Speaker 1: I've said this for a while now, Ben and Dan

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Speaker 1: would back me up here. I think James Franklin is

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Speaker 1: a huge beneficiary of this new world order of college

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Speaker 1: football because the program at its best over the last

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Speaker 1: decade is kind of a two loss team. At its best,

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Speaker 1: a two loss team usually to Ohio State and then

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Speaker 1: somebody else, Michigan, you name it. Now that gets you

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Speaker 1: in the playoff, possibly with a home game at Beaver

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Speaker 1: Stadium if things break correctly. Has anyone around the program

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Speaker 1: come to a similar realization, because if so, I would

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Speaker 1: think that would be rather energizing for a program that

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Speaker 1: is looking to get over that proverbial hunt.

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Speaker 2: The most exciting bronze medal situation in America. Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little bit of both,

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Speaker 3: because I think that there is, as much as they

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Speaker 3: don't want to admit it out loud, and excitement about

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Speaker 3: the idea that getting to the playoffs is now easier

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Speaker 3: now to a certain extent, that just sort of delays

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Speaker 3: lose to the teams that you're trying to beat until

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Speaker 3: a later date kind of thing. You know, if Penn

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Speaker 3: State's existential issue is can't beat Michigan, can't beat Ohio State,

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Speaker 3: then playing them in the playoffs is only just sort

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Speaker 3: of a variation of congratulations, you've made a little bit

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Speaker 3: further this time in that equation. But I think there's

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Speaker 3: no question that, you know, the biggest thing for Penn

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Speaker 3: State as college football changes, is it's a program, regardless

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Speaker 3: of its success on an elite level, is always going

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Speaker 3: to be relevant in the conversation relative to big name

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Speaker 3: brands that are going to be able to recruit, well,

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Speaker 3: they'll be able going to put fans in the seats

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Speaker 3: that are going to be able to have success. And

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Speaker 3: I think that really extends the amount of time that

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Speaker 3: Penn State has to figure it out. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you're some of these programs that are trying to stay

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Speaker 3: relevant or trying to get into that conversation, whenever college

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Speaker 3: football changes again, you're running out of time. For like

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Speaker 3: Indiana football is running out of time to take the

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Speaker 3: next step. So when things kick into whatever happens next,

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Speaker 3: that they'll still be there. Penn State's already there, So

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Speaker 3: I think that that extends their window in a little

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Speaker 3: in a certain sense. But yeah, there's no question to

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Speaker 3: your point that the fact that Penn State knows it

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Speaker 3: can pretty much do what it's been doing and probably

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Speaker 3: make the playoffs is advantageous. On the other hand, there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of two lead, two lost teams at

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Speaker 3: the end of the year out there, you know, trying

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Speaker 3: to make the playoffs now as well, So I think

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Speaker 3: you kind of have to keep your focus. But I

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Speaker 3: do think that the ecosystem changing helps. Then again in

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Speaker 3: the negative direction. It's not like adding Oregon and Washington

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Speaker 3: and USC and to a certain extent, UCLA is like, well,

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Speaker 3: things also just got easier for you too, So I

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Speaker 3: think that's a little bit of a catch twenty two there.

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Speaker 2: When you look at what's been an okay offense, pretty

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Speaker 2: good against lower tier teams all world against Maryland, but

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Speaker 2: otherwise an offense that you know struggles, I don't. I

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Speaker 2: think they scored what thirteen and a half points collectively

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Speaker 2: are on average last year against Michigan and Ohio State

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Speaker 2: and the Ohio State game being at home. What is

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Speaker 2: it about offensive struggles? Is it a continuity thing with coordinators?

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Speaker 2: Is it a misevaluation of quarterbacks? Although I will say

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Speaker 2: Drew Aller, I still think it's TBD offensive line struggles

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Speaker 2: situations where like a running back will pop or a

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Speaker 2: receiver will pop, but the quarterback's not right? Are the

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Speaker 2: lines not right? Is it a vision thing from James

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Speaker 2: Franklin saying this is what we want our team to

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Speaker 2: be and recruit like? Is it a scheme thing? Is

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Speaker 2: it a running into weird buzzsaw things like if you

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Speaker 2: had to pin down one thing that's holding back the offense,

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Speaker 2: that is that is more pronounced than another aspect to you,

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Speaker 2: what is the thing that needs or needed the most fixing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: if you were going to fix one thing about Penn

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Speaker 3: State's offense overall, I think the thing that his mist

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Speaker 3: is a really elite quarterback. I think that that Sean

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Speaker 3: Clifford was probably better than he gets credit for and

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Speaker 3: also just as bad as people.

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Speaker 2: Said, yeah, two things at the same time.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was both of those things. I don't think

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Speaker 3: Sean Clifford was ever going to win a national title

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Speaker 3: game at Pensate, and I think that had a lot

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Speaker 3: to do with why people got tired of him. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't that he was losing lots of games. This wasn't

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Speaker 3: sort of Anthony Morelli banging his head up against the

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Speaker 3: wall sort of thing. This was just you knew what

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Speaker 3: you were going to get and they were going to

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Speaker 3: have to play this kid for five years. So it

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Speaker 3: was just sort of was this awkward situation there. I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, Tracey McSorley, great quarterback, had a ton of

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Speaker 3: great weapons, and I think to a certain extent, you know,

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Speaker 3: Trace had his limitations as well, but he made up

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Speaker 3: for them in a lot of different ways. I think

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Speaker 3: the struggle last year was that Drew. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think he's raw. I think that we lean a lot

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Speaker 3: on what the word prospect means, and in theory that

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Speaker 3: means we think that you can project out to be

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Speaker 3: this guy one day, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people expected him to show up and be Trevor Lawrence.

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Speaker 3: And I think realistically, and Drew has said this that

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Speaker 3: you know, there are certain guys that have played quarterback

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Speaker 3: their entire life that they started out as a quarterback,

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Speaker 3: they continued playing quarterback. Drew only picked up quarterbacking a

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Speaker 3: few years ago, is still sort of learning everything about

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Speaker 3: what that takes. And that doesn't absolve him of making mistakes.

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Speaker 3: But I do think he's raw. And I think on

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Speaker 3: the other side of that coin and State probably had

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Speaker 3: maybe it's worst receiving room that it's had since the

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Speaker 3: sanctions in terms of a clear cut number one guy.

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Speaker 3: They're bouncing from Chris Godwin to Johan Dotson to Parker

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Speaker 3: Washington to guys that were really kJ Handler, yep, aj Handler,

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Speaker 3: and they just you know, and Andre Lambert Smith was

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Speaker 3: supposed to be that guy. But I think someone who's

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Speaker 3: made his entire career of being up and down is

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Speaker 3: not a good guy to lean on for your number

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Speaker 3: one overall receiver, and that's sort of how that panned out.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I think schematically the question will

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Speaker 3: be what it looks like under Andy Koltoniki this year,

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Speaker 3: because I think he's sort of made his bones making

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Speaker 3: something out of nothing. And I think if Penn State's

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Speaker 3: offense comes out this year and looks a lot like

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Speaker 3: it has last several years, that'll point the finger at

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Speaker 3: James more concretely, because I think that there has been

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Speaker 3: the argument that James dabbles in the offense, but pretty

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Speaker 3: much every offensive coordinator before and after the fact has

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Speaker 3: said that's not really what goes on. And I don't

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Speaker 3: think that the offense has struggled because in a random

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Speaker 3: third down on the second half, James has decided to

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Speaker 3: take over the offense and suddenly things go off the rails.

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Speaker 3: So to me, if they come out with this new

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Speaker 3: offensive coordinator that's you know, sort of has the Joe

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Speaker 3: moorehead crazy eye to him and they still kind of

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Speaker 3: the same, then I think you point that that finger

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Speaker 3: somewhere else. But yeah, to me, I think they just

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Speaker 3: need that elite level quarterback play because unless you're Alabama

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Speaker 3: or less, you're a program that's just stacked absolutely everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Quarterback can transcend a lot of issues. Then again, if

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Speaker 3: you don't have good receivers, somebody still catch the ball.

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Speaker 2: So one thing that a number of those schools that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned that have had great quarterback play and have

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Speaker 2: led those teams to higher levels of success than Penn

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Speaker 2: State has seen is they're not recruiting quarterbacks from Ohio

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Speaker 2: and Pennsylvania, whereas Penn State does Penn State year over

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Speaker 2: year over year, whether it's Sean Clifford, whether it's Drew Aller.

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Speaker 2: I know, Trace mcsorley's from Virginia, and when Ohio State

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Speaker 2: brings in a PA quarterback, it doesn't fully work out.

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Speaker 2: As Kyle McCord is now playing for Syracuse. What is

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Speaker 2: the scope like for geographic recruiting at quarterback for James Franklin.

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Speaker 2: I know, you know Justin Fields was in the fold

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Speaker 2: for a stretch there, which probably gives us a different

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Speaker 2: Penn State team. But is Penn State making attempts to

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Speaker 2: go west to go to Atlanta continually? Like what is

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Speaker 2: the seriousness with which Penn State does, you know, cast

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Speaker 2: a wide net to find that superstar quarterback when a

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Speaker 2: lot of Ohio, a lot of pa guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that is you know, that's

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Speaker 3: one of the bigger picture of struggles that Penn State

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Speaker 3: has in a sense that the footprint's good. I don't

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Speaker 3: think anyone's going to say that the DMV doesn't have

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Speaker 3: talent or that you know, Ohio and Pennsylvania don't historically

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Speaker 3: produce talent. But you know, just go to Atlanta and

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Speaker 3: get the best quarterback. It's like, well, welcome to every

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Speaker 3: other college football program at America is trying to, you know,

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Speaker 3: do those same sorts of things. Now, obviously Penn State

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Speaker 3: you know, has more of a cachet than some other

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Speaker 3: programs might that are they're on that same hunt. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's a that's a challenge, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: the challenge kind of comes back to a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a self fulfilling prophecy at quarterback where I think

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Speaker 3: that some people go Penn State's not a bad quarterback school,

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Speaker 3: but not the obvious one of the top ten programs

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Speaker 3: in America that you would go. Yes, they will make

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Speaker 3: you into a top five draft pick if you are

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Speaker 3: a quarterback there. And I think that that is hard

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Speaker 3: because you have to take a guy that's maybe not

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Speaker 3: as good and make him better than he should be,

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Speaker 3: and then that proves it, or you find out that

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Speaker 3: he can't be that good and he isn't that good,

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Speaker 3: and then everyone says he can't develop quarterbacks. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think that's really where the pressure is with this

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Speaker 3: whole Drew situation. Is you finally get a guy who has,

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Speaker 3: you know, the recruiting stars and the sort of hype

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Speaker 3: around him, and you go, Okay, this is your opportunity

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Speaker 3: to take a guy who should be good and make

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Speaker 3: him good and he should be better than the other

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Speaker 3: guys that you have, which is part of what has

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Speaker 3: made the whole fact that Penn States' receivers have been

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Speaker 3: probably the worst they've been in a while kind of

378
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Speaker 3: funny in a hindsight, because it's like they finally get

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Speaker 3: a really good quarterback in theory and then he doesn't

380
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Speaker 3: have anyone to throw it to when that really had

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Speaker 3: not been Penn States issues. So to answer your actual question, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's definitely a challenge that the

383
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Speaker 3: footprint doesn't always hold that kind of level of a quarterback,

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Speaker 3: and I think there's obviously the inherent challenge of if

385
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Speaker 3: you could just go recruit the South, everyone would do it,

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Speaker 3: and everyone already is. So there's that aspect as well.

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Speaker 1: On the topic of the receiver room, which I know

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Speaker 1: is a very popular subject, five guys transferred out, including

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Speaker 1: Lambert Smith you mentioned earlier. I have heard a million assumptions,

390
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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. What have you as to why, ranging from

391
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Speaker 1: they don't like the new offense, confidence and Drew Aller

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Speaker 1: a million of them, a guard variety if you go

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Speaker 1: out on social media, what is the reason for the

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Speaker 1: exodus in the receiver room?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think if you look at the actual

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Speaker 3: guys that left, Caandre is probably the only one that

397
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 3: was ever going to be statistically relevant League Mega is

398
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Speaker 3: a great kid, He was a captain, a special teams guy.

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Speaker 3: You know. I think everybody knows that special teams players

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Speaker 3: are important, but I don't think that anyone has ever

401
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Speaker 3: used that label necessarily in a flowing positive way when

402
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Speaker 3: it comes to talk about the up and coming receivers.

403
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Speaker 3: So to KeAndre, I don't like to talk badly about

404
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Speaker 3: guys because I don't think that that's fair. Because I

405
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Speaker 3: think that we see them in and high pressure situations

406
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 3: after emotional things. We're not their friends. We're not trying

407
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Speaker 3: to be. What they're like away from the microphone is

408
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Speaker 3: not necessarily what they're like with their friends and with

409
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Speaker 3: their teammates. But Candre has always been kind of moody.

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Speaker 3: He's been a pretty When he's high, he's high. When

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Speaker 3: he's low, he's low, And honestly, I think that that

412
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Speaker 3: is at least part of the reason why he's had

413
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Speaker 3: production issues and consistency issues. So I don't want to

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Speaker 3: say that Penn State is better off without Candre Lambert Smith.

415
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Speaker 3: I don't think that's fair to him, and I don't

416
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Speaker 3: think it's fair for me to say. But the idea

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Speaker 3: that KeAndre, who basically didn't have a catch after the

418
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Speaker 3: Michigan game, I think he had like one in the marriage.

419
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Speaker 3: That's not true, but he effectively was out of the

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Speaker 3: offensive sort of formula for the back half of the year.

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Speaker 3: That a guy who is sometimes a little mercurial wants

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Speaker 3: to start fresh somewhere else, especially in this day and

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Speaker 3: age of nil where you can go. Not only can

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Speaker 3: I start over, I can get paid to do it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that that's unred reasonable. So yeah, I

427
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Speaker 3: mean I think it might have been different if Mike

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Speaker 3: Yoursitch hadn't been fired. I think he always struck me

429
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Speaker 3: as a sort of strange and grumpy guy. The idea

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Speaker 3: that maybe not being in a very successful offense with

431
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Speaker 3: a guy that's maybe occasionally hard to like might make

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Speaker 3: you want to move on. But I think individually the

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Speaker 3: numbers add up to that many departures. But I think

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Speaker 3: you can kind of explain away each of them in

435
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 3: a way that's just sort of like it makes sense

436
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 3: for them, it makes fools for Penn State, and it's

437
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 3: probably not indicative of anything much larger than.

438
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: I You're setting me up perfectly, Ben, because my next

439
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: question was going to be for you to compare and

440
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: contrast Mike Yoursitch and new offensive coordinator who we mentioned earlier,

441
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: Andy kotel Nick, who comes up from from Kansas. What

442
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: are the pros and cons of each in your observations?

443
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Mike, Mike was one of those guys

444
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: that I would remember seeing him at like recruiting camps

445
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 3: or something like that, driving around with two red bulls

446
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: on a golf cart. This just sort of like you're

447
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: just like I have not slept in four days kind

448
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 3: of energy. Obviously, you know, he was a big part

449
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 3: of Drew Aller committing to Penn State. They had a

450
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 3: good relationship. There's something to be said for that, for sure.

451
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying that Mike Hersitch is unlikable or

452
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: anything like that, but I think he just had a

453
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 3: sort of like, excuse me, sort of gruff personality at

454
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 3: times that maybe didn't translate well for certain people. And

455
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 3: obviously people are willing to put up with a lot

456
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: more when you're scoring a lot of points against good teams.

457
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 3: Andy Kulta, Niki. He reminds me a lot of Joe

458
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: Morehead in terms of this kind of like real unhealthy

459
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 3: enthusiasm for football in a way that translates to I

460
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: am having a lot of fun. I feel like there's

461
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 3: two versions of unhealthy love for football. One is you're

462
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 3: sort of like Jim Harbaugh and it creeps everybody out

463
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 3: a little bit, and the other is sort of like, uh,

464
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: this is a lot of fun and I'm not taking

465
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 3: myself too seriously, but I also happen to be good

466
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: at what I do kind of thing, and I think

467
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 3: that he strikes that good balance of those two things.

468
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: You know.

469
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 3: I remember Joe Morehead. The guys would talk about him

470
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: being like, we're going to call this play and I

471
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 3: know this guy's going to be open. Don't worry about it,

472
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: it's going to work kind of thing. And I think

473
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 3: Andy Koltonicki has this similar sort of like, don't be

474
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: too stressed, this is going to be okay, I know

475
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 3: what we're doing kind of thing. Now, everybody's super happy

476
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: in May when you haven't lost a game, and everybody's

477
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: easy to talk to when nothing bad has happened. But

478
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: I think that Andy Kultonicki is a lot more relaxed.

479
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 3: And I think in an era where Penn State could,

480
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 3: you know, you talk about basketball, and sometimes shooters will

481
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 3: talk about their holding the ball too tightly and it's

482
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 3: impacting their ability to make the shots. I think if

483
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: Penn State's offense is sort of just holding the playbook

484
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: too tightly, it's impacting their ability to find success. I

485
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: have no idea if that analogy really works, but I

486
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: do think that Andy Kultonicky is sort of relaxed. Nature

487
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 3: works in Penn State's favor in a moment where certainly

488
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 3: there's a lot of moving pieces.

489
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: I want to go to the other side of the

490
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: ball because we've asked you a bunch of questions so

491
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: far about why isn't success happening to the degree that

492
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: Penn State fans would expect on offense? What is the

493
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: cocktail for this consistent success on defense? And I'm sure

494
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: there's a number of different elements, but different coordinators, you know,

495
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: guys transferring in and out, but guys becoming or developing

496
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: into high level NFL draft picks. It almost doesn't matter.

497
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: The year, doesn't matter, the coordinator, doesn't matter, the players

498
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 2: that the Penn State defense is going to be one

499
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: of the more consistent elements of college football as a whole.

500
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: If you had to sort of mix that cocktail, what

501
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 2: elements go into that consistent success.

502
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the biggest thing is that there's

503
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: reputation there, you know. I think that Penn State has

504
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: been able to maintain good defensive product really for the

505
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: last ten I mean basically for forever, but certainly in

506
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: the modern era, they've been able to put together good defenses.

507
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: And I think that that kind of goes back to

508
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: what I was saying about quarterbacks, that when you have

509
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: the reputation of being able to develop or not develop quarterbacks.

510
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 3: It impacts your ability to bring people into the fold

511
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 3: that are interested in doing that. And I think, you know,

512
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: the fact that Penn State's gone smaller over the years,

513
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 3: gotten more athletic, gotten faster, I think appeals to sort

514
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: of the modern defensive player, because it works better in

515
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: modern offensive football to slow them down with guys that

516
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: have that sort of equal athleticism and size and ability.

517
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I've always said that until Penn

518
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 3: State's defense is bad, I can to assume that it's good,

519
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: and that's basically been the case. And I think a

520
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: lot of that has to do with reputation, A lot

521
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 3: of that has to do with in some regards, defense

522
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: is a little bit easier than offense in terms of

523
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: developing and getting on the same page and being able

524
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: to have that continuity year in and year out, and

525
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: I think all those things have kind of led to

526
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: a program that it can't lean on offense all the time,

527
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: but it can almost always lean on its defense, and

528
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, Penn State's defense over the last

529
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 3: five years or so is responsible for as many wins

530
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: on that schedule as the offense. So I think that

531
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: that sort of thing breeds a snowball that is easy

532
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: to keep rolling because guys know what to expect and

533
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: sort of what the standard is, and they're interested in upholding.

534
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: Fair enough and so. And I know every fan base

535
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 2: does this if they're rooting for at least a decent

536
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: team that they circle a year they say, this is

537
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: when we're going to have so many upperclassmen, this is

538
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: when these guys come back and we have coaching continuity.

539
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 2: In retrospect and looking at twenty twenty three and looking

540
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: at the two deep four last year's defense, Chop Robinson, obviously,

541
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: Abdul Carter's still there, Kaylin King, a number of guys

542
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: who were, you know, all big ten if not even

543
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: bigger type talents. Is twenty twenty three now looked at

544
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: as a wasted year because of the ceiling of the defense,

545
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: Or am I just being dramatic?

546
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's no question that one of

547
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 3: the things that you have to have if you want

548
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: to win a national title or at least make the

549
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: playoffs is an elite defense. And Penn State has had

550
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: for the last three or four years a really really

551
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: good defense, and has not always had the offense to

552
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: match that. So I think there's no question that for

553
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 3: the number of good things that Penn State's defense did

554
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 3: last year, that it is in terms of quality, a

555
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: shame that the offense couldn't match it relative to what

556
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 3: that Penn State team could have done if it had

557
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: a slightly better offense. Because I maintained that if Penn

558
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: State had last year's receiver room, if it had Parker

559
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: Washington and Mitchell Tinsley, that it probably beats Ohio State

560
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 3: or Michigan, if not both. I mean, I'm not going

561
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: to go out and say that that absolutely would have happened,

562
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 3: but that was all it was, really miss It was

563
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: just a little bit more offensive potency, and those guys

564
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: both had that. So I think it's a missed opportunity

565
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: in a certain sense. And I think there's no question

566
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: that you look at some of the guys that Penn

567
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 3: State lost. I mean Kalen King, and if you had

568
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: told me two years ago that he was going to

569
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 3: go near the end of the draft, I would have

570
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 3: never believed you. That was sort of an odd fall

571
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: for him, but he was still a very good corner.

572
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: It's not like he had a bad year. It just

573
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: wasn't quite what people expected. So other than that, yeah,

574
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: I think there's no question that anytime a team can

575
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: lay claim to having one of the best defenses in

576
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: America and can't follow that up with offense, there's no

577
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 3: question that that's a missed opportunity.

578
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: So when you look at this year's defense, you know,

579
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: the first thing that's always going to pop is Abdul

580
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: Carter when anybody has a conversation about the twenty twenty

581
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: four defense, and he moves obviously from the linebacking court

582
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: more of an edge player who should be a terror.

583
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: But where's this defense strong? What are the names people

584
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: should know? And do you expect similarly lofty performances against

585
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: honestly a pretty great schedule all things considered. I think

586
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: they miss what they miss Oregon, they miss Iowa, and

587
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: the defense wouldn't have had problems with Iowa's offenses here.

588
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: But I know this is a team that should have

589
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: high expectations considering where the schedule is.

590
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, the schedule, just a quick note on that is

591
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: sort of interesting this year because I think Pence plays

592
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: six teams between the non conference and the new Big

593
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: Ten teams, that it basically doesn't have any regular familiarity with.

594
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 3: It is a very weird schedule in that regard. I

595
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: mean that's true for I suppose basically everyone in the

596
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: Big ten this year, but that aside, Yeah, I mean,

597
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 3: obviously it starts and ends to a certain extent with

598
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: Abdul Carter. I think it says a lot about his

599
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: athleticism and abilities that they were willing to make that move,

600
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: and I think it says a lot about obviously the

601
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: linebackers that they have that they can feel confident about,

602
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: you know, taking a guy that's a potential All American

603
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: candidate from one position and moving into another one and saying,

604
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure these guys have got it figured out, you know.

605
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: I think Kean Wiley is an exciting guy to talk about.

606
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: I think Kobe King, Callen King's brother has been there,

607
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: and Tony Rojas has been sort of even last year,

608
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: Tony Rojas was as a true freshman, a guy that

609
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: got a lot of hype in spring practice about being

610
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: a linebacker that could make an impact. And I think, really,

611
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: and he's sort of admitted this after the fact. One

612
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: of the better things that Manny Diaz did was go

613
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: just wait, just develop get comfortable. You're going to have

614
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: your time. We're okay at linebacker. We don't need to

615
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: throw you out there right now. Just wait. And then

616
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: Tony Rojas would go in in garbage time, take two

617
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: snaps and have seven tackles at the end of them. Somehow.

618
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: He was just this machine that would just eat people

619
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: up when he had an opportunity. So I think there's

620
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: a lot there's high expectations for him to make a

621
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: really big impact on Penn State this year. He has

622
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: a lot of athleticism, he's exciting to watch, so that's

623
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 3: gonna be fun. I think obviously, you know, Zakey Wheatley

624
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: is another guy at safety that I think it was

625
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: two years ago. He was the takeaway king and spring

626
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: and sommer practice. Two years ago, he had a lot

627
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: more production in terms of force, fumbles and interceptions. Kind

628
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 3: of fell out of the equation last year a little

629
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: bit at safety for various reasons, but seems to be

630
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: you know, I think James said he's had his best

631
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: sort of off season of his career so far. And

632
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: then you know, obviously you look at I mean, I

633
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 3: guess we're talking defense. I think that yeah. I mean

634
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: he's he's a big guy to take a step forward

635
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: a lot like Tony Rojas's as well. And then defensive

636
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 3: tackle Hikeem Beeman's been around for forever, Zane Durant's been

637
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: around for a while, so it's really one of those

638
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: things where they just kind of reload. I think that's

639
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: one thing that they've done well over the years on

640
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: the depth chart is Penn State has been a legitimate

641
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: too deep at just about every position. That's not to

642
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: say that there's another abdual Carter behind abdual Carter, but

643
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: I do think that they've had the ability to develop,

644
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: and I think, much to the chagrin of some fans

645
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: at times, that's part of the benefit of why you'll

646
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: see Penn Stable basically do an entire line and change

647
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: on the defensive front for a drive. They'll just play

648
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: different guys and go, Okay, it's your turn to get better.

649
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: And it's worked out well for them because you know,

650
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: it just has. But I think because of that, they've

651
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: been able to throw guys in into bigger roles. They're

652
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: already kind of familiar with what's going on, and it's

653
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: benefited their ability to really reload year after year.

654
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: Here's my devil's advocate, because I do actually believe Penn

655
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: State's defense has been excellent these past few years. They've

656
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: played a roster of quarterbacks and offenses in the Big Ten,

657
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: which by and large do not wow people. Whether they

658
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: play Penn State, whether they don't play Penn State, your Indiana's,

659
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: your Minnesota's, your recent Michigan states. Penn State has not

660
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: seen a number of great quarterbacks and high flying offenses.

661
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: In the new look Big Ten. We're getting four schools

662
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: that have produced eye popping offenses, big stats, big numbers,

663
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: NFL picks, and Oregon, Washington, USC and UCLA. Do you

664
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: believe any adjust is needed to account for more offensive

665
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: firepower with a new look conference or it's just more

666
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: of the same. They have NFL picks themselves. They shut

667
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: down bad offenses like a good defense shut down should

668
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: shut down a bad offense. Or is more savviness from

669
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: James Franklin needed with a little more firepower on the

670
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: schedule in the years to come.

671
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit of both, but I

672
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: think too to a certain extent. You know, you can

673
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: ask the other side of that question, which is you know,

674
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: are these high powered offenses taking advantage of bad defenses?

675
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 3: You know, have you know, I think a little bit

676
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: of the first half of the National title game where

677
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: everyone was sort of used to the idea of Washington

678
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: scoring and having these big explosive plays, and Michigan is like,

679
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: We'll just repeatedly punch you in the mouth and you

680
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: will take it because that's what we do. And obviously

681
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: that that game they figured things out and et cetera,

682
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: et cetera. But I think there's no question, you know,

683
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, there's going to be

684
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: an adjustment period for everyone. I think that for whatever

685
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: USC has to improve defensively, I don't think that anyone

686
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: looks at USC and goes, oh, well, they'll be fun

687
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: to stop, This will be easy. This is like playing

688
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: West Coast Rutgers, Like this is not exactly what's going

689
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: on here. So I think you're going to have to adjust.

690
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: I think if you're a big ten East rest in

691
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: Peace program, you know, you've had to deal with that

692
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: a little bit. Because Michigan and Ohio State have been

693
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: playing different brands of good football. You know, I think

694
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: historically Ohio State has been the smaller more athletic, more explosive,

695
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: more Oregon usc Ish offense, and Michigan has been very

696
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: Michigan and at different times those have worked out in

697
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 3: different ways. But I think if you're Penn State, you go, well,

698
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 3: thanks a lot, guys, because now we have to get

699
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: ready for two different brands of offensive football.

700
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: Right.

701
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, yeah, three out

702
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: of those four teams for sure are going to pose

703
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: problem to Penn State in ways that theoretically Penn State

704
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: has not seen a lot of before.

705
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: It.

706
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: Certainly you can look at, you know, the bowl game,

707
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: Penn State goes and plays Old Miss and Old Miss

708
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: for a lot of different reasons, some of them Penn

709
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 3: State's fault and a lot of them just Old Miss

710
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: being good. They were able to throw the ball on

711
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: a team that had not seen a quarterback or receivers. Frankly,

712
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 3: that we're able to do what Ole Miss could do.

713
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: Who is like the heartbeat of this team? Ben, Who's

714
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: like the leader? We know the big names, we know

715
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: Drew Aller and Nick Singleton, and we go down the

716
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: list there abdul Carter, But like, who is the guy

717
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: in the big team huddle that's going to get everybody

718
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: fired up for this season.

719
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 3: It's a good question because they had a lot of

720
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: turnover in that area. And I think that Drew is

721
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: he's not vocal, and that has changed even in the

722
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: last year or the last two years since he's gotten

723
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: on campus. So I don't want to say that he

724
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 3: is not more vocal, but yeah, I mean, I think

725
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: that they've got to find that. I think they've got

726
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: to find the heartbeat. And there there are a lot

727
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 3: of good leaders. Don de Luca has been around for forever.

728
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: At linebacker, Nick Singleton commands a lot of respect. They've

729
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 3: had guys on the offensive line historically that have been

730
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: that way defensively. Abdul, you know, I think is a

731
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: guy to that they can lean on in that area.

732
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: But even he is kind of quiet. Now again, you know,

733
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: what you're like in front of a camera is not

734
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 3: the same thing as what you're like in halftime in

735
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 3: a locker room kind of thing. But I think that

736
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 3: you know, that is always not the missing piece for

737
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: Penn State, because they've had great leaders. But I think

738
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: that that's the missing piece that you have to find

739
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: for every great team, is who are the guys that

740
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 3: are going to stand up and rally the troops. And

741
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: I think, you know, we go back to Trace. That

742
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: was one of the things that made Trace so good

743
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: is like people were willing to die for him in

744
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 3: that locker room basically, and that that that Penn State

745
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 3: team rallied around the belief that they had in him

746
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: to do the right thing and to make plays. And

747
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, to a certain extent, that's

748
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: the challenge that Penn State faces with its offense is

749
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 3: getting the defense to really buy into what it's doing,

750
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: because I think there was at times this sort of

751
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 3: exhaustion that Penn State's defense was so good and was

752
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: doing so well, and Penn State's offense was scoring thirteen

753
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 3: points against Michigan or against Ohio State or struggling, and

754
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they didn't give really good answers.

755
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 3: But I asked some defensive players last year, you know,

756
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 3: what does a quarterback need to do to win you?

757
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: What does a quarterback need to do to win over

758
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: a defense? And I think that that's sort of the

759
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: challenge that Penn State needs to figure out this year,

760
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 3: which is who's going to be your leader on both

761
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 3: sides of the ball. Defensively, there's always guys that step up,

762
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: but offensively, can you have guys that will transcend that

763
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 3: side of the ball and kind of bring everybody together

764
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: in a way where you go, we believe in what

765
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: everyone's doing, and we believe in our ability to have

766
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: success with what everyone's doing. And if they can do that,

767
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: I think that goes a lot away along because I

768
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: am a big believer in the idea that good vibes

769
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 3: win big games. I think if you have a locker

770
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: room that gets along, the locker room that believes I'm

771
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: an Eagles fan, I don't know that when the Eagles

772
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 3: won the Super Bowl that they were necessarily the absolute

773
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: best team, but they had really good vibes. They believed

774
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: in each other, and that goes a long way. And

775
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: I think for Penn State, if they can get both

776
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: sides of the ball to believe in each other and

777
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: do it more animatedly, I think that that goes a

778
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 3: long way as well.

779
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: Final question, Ben Jones, I feel like I'm a broken

780
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: record when I'm going to ask this question, but will

781
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: it ever happen for James Franklin at Penn State. It's

782
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: the whole setup for this series of episodes that we're doing.

783
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: It's a question I feel like we ask maybe more

784
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: about James Franklin than ninety five percent of the other

785
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: coaches around college football. Is this ever gonna happen? Is

786
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: he ever going to get over that proverbial hump at

787
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Penn State? How do you define it is important here?

788
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

789
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think if you ask the question,

790
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: do I think that Penn State is one of the

791
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 3: programs equipped to find success at an elite level occasionally?

792
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: I don't think that you have to convince me that

793
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 3: Penn State recruits well enough or has the facilities. The

794
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: idea that Penn State can be really good and win

795
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 3: a national title. The twenty sixteen twenty seventeen teams were,

796
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: give or take, probably about as good as anybody, and

797
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: if you put them in the playoffs in twenty sixteen

798
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: over Ohio State, I mean, Alabama and Clumson in that

799
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: era were kind of a different animal, but they were

800
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: as good as anyone, give or take. So the idea

801
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 3: that Penn State football can be good enough under James

802
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: Franklin to win a national title is a saying that

803
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 3: you don't have to twist my arm too much to

804
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: buy into the notion that that is a thing that

805
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: can happen. I think I go back to what I've

806
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: said about Penn State's defenses, which is, until Penn State's

807
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: defense is bad, I'm going to assume that it's good.

808
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 3: Until Penn State starts beating Michigan and Ohio State, I'm

809
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 3: going to assume that they're going to lose. So, you know,

810
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: the new playoff format changes things. The Big ten being

811
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: different changes the arithmetic. There, lots of things are new.

812
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: I don't know that we can really even assess how

813
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: people are doing anymore until we're five years down the

814
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: road and go, so, how is this working out and

815
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 3: how are people looking? Do I think James Franklin can

816
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: get it done? I think he's better than he gets

817
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 3: credit for. But I think that ten years is a

818
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: lot of time to gather data. So do I think

819
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: that a good program can get lucky enough over the

820
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 3: course of a season to win a national title? Sure?

821
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: What I put my life savings down on James Franklin

822
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 3: winning a national title at Penn State? Probably not, but

823
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: come on, you know, yeah, so I don't think it

824
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: happens under James. But that doesn't mean that I think

825
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 3: that it can't. I think there are a lot of

826
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: things working in Penn State's favor and a lot of

827
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 3: reasons to believe in what Penn State's trying to do.

828
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: And I think that big X factor in all of

829
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 3: this is that Packcraft is sort of taking the get

830
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: rich or die trying approach to facilities spending at this point.

831
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: And I think if you look at Georgia, one of

832
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 3: the things that Georgia did with Kirby Smart was saying,

833
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: let's just give you all the money that we have

834
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: and see what you can do with it if we

835
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: just buy everything and make it really nice. And he goes, Okay,

836
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: that sounds good. And I don't think the Paccraft is

837
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 3: quite there yet. But the fact that they are spending

838
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 3: money as much as they are, the fact that they

839
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: are investing in facilities as much as they are, I

840
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: think that was one of James's biggest qualms under Sandy Barber.

841
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: And I think if that variable changes, you're looking at

842
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 3: a different kind of Penn State football program that maybe

843
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 3: is a little bit different down the road. But again,

844
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: it's a crapshoot. I know I'm hedging my bets. I

845
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 3: don't think it'll happen under James, but I think that

846
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: there's reason to believe that I'm wrong.

847
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Ben Jones, Statecollege dot Com. It's been too

848
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: long since we had you on the show, so it's

849
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: good to have you back on. We'll definitely have to

850
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: do this again sometime soon. We appreciate your insight. Take care, Ben,

851
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Ellas. All Right, there you go, Ben Jones,

852
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: Statecollege dot Com. All Things Penn State. The answer to

853
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: the question of will it ever happened for James Franklin

854
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: is interesting.

855
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating, and I want you to tell

856
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: me what your answer is. What's holding it back or

857
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 2: what's giving you confidence?

858
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 1: If you put somebody on the spot and you say,

859
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: what is holding Penn State back? We could throw a

860
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: thousand things out there. It's obvious last season offensively, there

861
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: were some issues that they need to resolve. Now. Whether

862
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: or not new coordinator can do that remains to be seen.

863
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: But it's not just that. It's not just the offense, right,

864
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: they've got this defense, but it's there is something about

865
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: the program that I have not been able to put

866
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: my finger on, and I don't know what it is,

867
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 1: but that there is something holding them back. Now, maybe

868
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: the playoff. Maybe easier qualification quote unquote easier qualification into

869
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: the playoff, I e. More teams will help them get

870
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: over that proverbial hump. If they get a home playoff

871
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: game in Beaver Stadium in mid December against you whoever,

872
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: that obviously poses a pretty nice advantage for the Ninnyllons.

873
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: That would be winning a playoff game, I think would

874
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: constitute getting over something of a hump, playing in a

875
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: meaningful game and winning it. I think that's what it

876
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: takes to make it feel like there is some real

877
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: momentum behind this program getting to new heights. But as

878
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: for what is stopping them from getting there, Ben said,

879
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: E lead quarterback play for sure, that is an element

880
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 1: to it. You and I talked a little bit before

881
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: we hit record about recruiting. Recruiting has been very, very good.

882
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: It hasn't necessarily been elite like a Georgia. But then again,

883
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: which programs have been elite like Georgia. There's only a

884
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: handful that have. So whatever it is, it doesn't feel

885
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: like it's much. It just feels like it's been consistent

886
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: and persistent and annoying. Frankly, for those of us graduated

887
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: from the school. Hopefully this is the year where they

888
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: get past that again, whatever that is. Hopefully this is

889
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: the year with the schedule, with the new setup, with

890
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: the new conference, what have you, where we can see

891
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: Penn State get into some of these higher leverage games

892
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: of the postseason and actually play for something. But as

893
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: for what it is, we could be talking about this

894
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: fifty years from now and still not be able to

895
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,479
Speaker 1: put our finger on just that one thing that felt

896
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: like it was holding them back.

897
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so my answer is no, And I'm going to

898
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: say with my chest I'm routinely wrong, and so I

899
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: guess that's my hedge. But I'm going to say no

900
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: because of the time we've had with James Franklin.

901
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: It's been a decade. It's been a decade.

902
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: The sample size isn't nothing that we know exactly how

903
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen for Penn State. We know that they

904
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: don't have an offense and defense typically firing on all

905
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: cylinders at the same time. We know the quarterback issue.

906
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: We know that they haven't had true star power at quarterback.

907
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: As much as I personally loved watching I think it

908
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: was the twenty six Penn State team with sophomore Trace

909
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: McSorley bombing it downfield. And as much as I personally

910
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 2: love watching Saquon Barkley, they've had star power on offense.

911
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: Line has been an issue. I think you can you

912
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: can look at the last decade or so of Penn

913
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: State football and sort of said, like, well, they've won

914
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: it in spite not having a dominant offensive line really

915
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: in any one of those years. Maybe I'm wrong about

916
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: you know, they had a specific year, but I've been

917
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: doing the show long enough with you to know that

918
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: you've never truly been in love with a Penn State

919
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: offensive line in the modern era. So the reason I

920
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: say it is we've had this sample size and they

921
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: managed to lose in like an impressive variety of ways.

922
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: Right that we talked two three years ago when it

923
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: was Michigan Eric Hall at the end of the game

924
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 2: that like Penn State didn't have a go to plan

925
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: at the end of a close game against a strong team,

926
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: or Penn State loses the Ohio State game two years

927
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: ago with Seahn Clifford throwing three interceptions and then looking

928
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: actually like really good, like Parker Washington was shredding the

929
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 2: Ohio State Secondary, but just had an absolute garbage first

930
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: quarter that they couldn't recover from. And so the variety

931
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 2: of ways that they lose big games against big teams

932
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: tells me that that you don't just don't break through.

933
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: And that's my idea of why Penn State has sort

934
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: of reached its plateau and will continue on this line

935
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: of being very good but doesn't have the extra gear

936
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: to hit the bar that Penn State fans historically expect

937
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: of this program.

938
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think eventually there will be some

939
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: sort of breakthrough moment. Eventually there has to be because

940
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 1: and look there was for Harbaugh, who was there forever.

941
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: And I think that's sort of my thought on the matter. Okay,

942
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: I am obviously not rooting against Penn State or James Franklin.

943
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: You know, that's not what I do. It is frustrating

944
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: that it has been the same story year and in

945
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: year out. I read the posts, Yeah, I read the tweets.

946
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: I see what people say. Everyone feels similarly. It just

947
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: feels like there is this glass ceiling of sorts that

948
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: is holding the team down and they're close. As Ben said,

949
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: there's a lot of talent, you know, he wouldn't want

950
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: to bet against Penn State winning a national championship, winning

951
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: a couple of playoff games, playing for something really important

952
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of any particular college football season.

953
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: You won't want to bet against that, But you also

954
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to bet for it. Just we've got that history.

955
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: I can on this show, on my show, say it'll

956
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: never happen.

957
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: I can't do it.

958
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: I can't James Franklin specifically, I can't bring myself to

959
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: say no, because the guy's grown on me over the years.

960
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: Initially I thought he was a snake oil salesman. I

961
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: have come around.

962
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: What doesn't mean I think he's a bad coach to

963
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: tell me.

964
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: I've come around. I've done a one to eighty on

965
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: James Franklin. I love the guy.

966
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: Wow, I have.

967
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: I just I have.

968
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you tie that in mid October May.

969
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: It might be a little bit of a dif a

970
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: different situation, but he's grown on me in a way

971
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: that I can't deny. I want to root for him.

972
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: I want it to happen for him. Okay, I desperately

973
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 1: want Drew Aller to live up to all of that hype.

974
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: It just you talk yourself into a corner, waiting around

975
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: for things to happen like this. There are other programs

976
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: out there that are just sort of doing it year

977
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: and the year out, and you know what to expect

978
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: Penn State at this point, ten years in with James Franklin.

979
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: To expect that it's suddenly going to change because of

980
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: one player or one coordinator, that might be a bit

981
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: far fetched.

982
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: Me here's the other element of all of this, and

983
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 2: that didn't really exist in the major first chunk of

984
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: James Franklin's tenure is we're in the portal era and

985
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: I from afar, and maybe you have a different thought

986
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 2: about this, Like pet State hasn't been killed by the

987
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: portal and they haven't added like crazy game changers this year.

988
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: We'll see what I think. It's aj Harris, Who's I

989
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: think going to start at one of the corner spots.

990
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: The transfer from Georgia they lose, that was a great

991
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 2: name back to Alabama, the safety they lose, as Ben mentioned,

992
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 2: KeAndre Lambert Smith. But they haven't added crazy game changers.

993
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: But they haven't maybe, and please remind me like catastrophic

994
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: losses at the same No, no.

995
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: No, I don't I don't think so. I mean, I

996
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: think they have been very comfortably in the middle.

997
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: Tasteful portal move, tasteful port Julian Fleming, Yeah, that could be.

998
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: That could add huge pop potentially.

999
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: Julian Fleming, a PA kid comes back home to PA.

1000
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: Now he figures to be kind of like the top target, right,

1001
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 1: like not kind of he will be the top target

1002
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: for Drew Aller this season. I think they have been

1003
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: very targeted in the guys that they've gone after. And

1004
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: to your point, yeah, they've been fairly lucky with respect

1005
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: to not losing their shirt in the portal. It's a

1006
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: big enough program that plays for high enough stakes year

1007
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: in a year out that's put certainly on the defensive

1008
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: side of the ball. Enough guys in the league to

1009
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: have that reputation has been alluded to earlier.

1010
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: Do you want more as a Penn State fan? Do

1011
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: you want them to be more aggressive in certain areas?

1012
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: Do you want them to do you lament any of

1013
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: the losses?

1014
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: I don't so much lament the losses. When you see

1015
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: five receivers leaving the receiver room, now I understand these

1016
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: might not be guys outside of KLS who factor in

1017
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: as being big time weapons Elakue, but.

1018
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: Claim was one of them to as I think.

1019
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, but when you see that number of any one

1020
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: position group walking out the door, of course the red

1021
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: flags go up. You wonder, what's do they know something

1022
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: that we don't that we should be paying attention to.

1023
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: But as Ben mentioned, again it's outside of KLS. I

1024
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody factored in as being truly statistically

1025
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: significant with respect to this offense. So would I like

1026
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: to see more playmakers out wide? I would absolutely.

1027
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: Which is a position group where you can find guys

1028
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: like if your team needs receiver improved movement and you

1029
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 2: are the size of Penn State, or you are Penn

1030
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 2: State and less quarterback as a disaster, which I don't

1031
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: think Drew Hollurs a disaster. I think maybe it's just

1032
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: a development issue. That's a position group where you can

1033
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: find guys on a couple of different levels.

1034
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, he's as Ben mentioned, he's raw, he's raw,

1035
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: he's still learning. I'm curious to see if he takes

1036
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: a step forward now with a new coordinator at the helm.

1037
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 2: Are you a believer A Drew Aller believer, I'll be

1038
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: a Drew.

1039
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: Hollur believer the same way I was a Christian Hackenberg

1040
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: believer right up until the day.

1041
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 2: He retired with from oh Man, I tried so hard.

1042
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: A lackluster NFL career. Yeah, I mean it wasn't just

1043
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: a lackluster NFL it was not existent. It was a

1044
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: lackluster sophomore in junior campaign as well.

1045
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 3: I will.

1046
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: Retire from this podcast at some point, still believing in

1047
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 1: Christian Hackenberger hack the way I will Drew Aller Man.

1048
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: I hope it works out. I really do, because the

1049
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: best of Drew Aller is crazy impressive. I know his

1050
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: spring game, like everybody's up and down. You know, hit

1051
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 2: some receivers, miss some receivers, dirted a couple of balls.

1052
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: But hopefully the new vision behind the scenes in cotal

1053
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: Necki is a difference maker for this offense and confidence

1054
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: for Drew Aller, who just threw a lot of short,

1055
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: lot short last year did not succeed downfield at all. Really, mechanically,

1056
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: I think he's gotten better. I think he's very sound.

1057
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: The ball jumps out of his hand. He obviously can

1058
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 2: make all of the throws. If it is truly a

1059
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 2: processing thing that will come with more seasoning, hopefully that

1060
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: will come with a guy in Cotael Nikki who worked

1061
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 2: wonders at Kansas, right. He worked wonders at Kansas, both

1062
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: in terms of what they did through the air and

1063
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: as well on the ground. Kansas was very quietly one

1064
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 2: of the better rushing teams in college football. That is

1065
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 2: what they were good at, and that should be what

1066
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: Penn State is also good at this season, given what

1067
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: they've come and what they've got coming back in the backfield.

1068
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: K Tron Allen with Nick Singleton, I would hope that

1069
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: they kind of tailored the offense around those two threats

1070
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: and then don't put it all on True Hour and

1071
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: to that extent, the receiver room as well, because we

1072
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 2: don't know fully what's there yet. I think if they

1073
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,439
Speaker 2: go with that template the start the year, that would

1074
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 2: be a good approach to it.

1075
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: I am not an offensive coordinator. I'm curious to see

1076
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: what it looks like, just the way everybody else is

1077
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: so big. Thanks to Ben Jones from State college dot

1078
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: Com for stopping on Buy Again. If you are out

1079
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: there and have any questions for Austin Price is going

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00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 1: to join us from Volquest to talk Tennessee a little

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Speaker 1: bit later. This week. Hit us up sliverble at gmail

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00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: dot com, or really anywhere across social media. Send us

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00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: a note. We'd love to get your input as for

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00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: what questions you would like When we pose the question

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00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: to Austin of will whatever happen for Josh Heipel in

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Speaker 1: Knoxville for Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: So I got Dan.

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Speaker 2: I just want to I just shout out to Abdul

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Speaker 2: Carter for being sensational. That's all I have now.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, that's all I got for now. We

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00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: appreciate everybody downloading, listening, supporting what we do. Make sure

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00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: you hit follow or subscribe on your podcasting or video

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00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: app of choice. We appreciate it. It helps us out.

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00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: Check verballers dot com if you want to add free

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00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: episodes that we drop a little bit early in addition

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00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: to a bunch of extra bonus perks out on our Patreon.

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Speaker 1: V E R B A L L E R S

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00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: dot com for that guy over there, my good friend

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00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: Dan Rubinstein, for myself, Tye hilden Brand, thanks again for

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00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: your ongoing support. We will talk to you all on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Stay solid, peace,