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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, December eleventh, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Riety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: la He's in New York, and Variety has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Brighty's Peter de Bruges and Matt Donnelly

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Speaker 1: on this year's Sundance lineup. They'll talk about what's in

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Speaker 1: store for the festival's last outing in Park City, which

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Speaker 1: takes place next month, and Jennifer Mos gives us a

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Speaker 1: preview of the Game Awards, which will be held tonight

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Speaker 1: in downtown La. Yes, it is in fact the Oscars

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Speaker 1: for Video Games. But before we get to that, here

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Speaker 1: are a few headlines just in this morning that you

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Speaker 1: need to know. Actually, there's just one big story that

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Speaker 1: people are talking about today and it doesn't involve Netflix

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Speaker 1: or one HBO or Paramount. The Mouse House is really

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Speaker 1: mad at Google. Disney is investing one billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: Open Ai and it's taking the first legal steps to

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Speaker 1: challenge Google for what Disney calls quote copyright infringement on

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Speaker 1: a massive scale, end quote for using AI models and

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Speaker 1: services to quote commercially, exploit and distribute end quote infringing

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Speaker 1: images and videos. Disney's deal with OpenAI will make a

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Speaker 1: number of its heavy hitter characters available for use in

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Speaker 1: open AI's Sora short form AI video model. The list

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Speaker 1: ranges from Mickey and Minnie to Luke Skywalker and Darth

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Speaker 1: Vader to Leelo and Stitch. This important story and so

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Speaker 1: much more can be found on Variety dot com right now.

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Speaker 1: And now it's time for conversations with Variety journalists about

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Speaker 1: news and trends in show business. Peter De Bruce, Variety's

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Speaker 1: chief film critic, and Matt Donnelly, entertainment writer, join me

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Speaker 1: to talk about the Sundance Film Festival, which released its

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Speaker 1: lineup on Wednesday. Matt and Peter break down the significance

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Speaker 1: of this year's gathering, which will be a milestone event.

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Speaker 1: Peter and Matt have covered Sundance for many years, so

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Speaker 1: they're the perfect people to put this transitional moment into perspective.

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Speaker 1: Peter Debrusi and Matt Donnelly LED's talk Sundance. Obviously, the

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Speaker 1: industry is gearing up for what will certainly be an

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Speaker 1: emotional sundance, probably a nostalgic sundance, as the festival that

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Speaker 1: defined the business of indie film some fortyish years ago

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Speaker 1: is having its last installment in Park City, planning to

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Speaker 1: move to Boulder, Colorado in twenty twenty seven. So what

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Speaker 1: stands out to you as significant about this year's lineup?

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Speaker 2: So it's really a discovery festival that's really about spotlighting

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Speaker 2: new talent, first time directors, people that they've been developing

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Speaker 2: or shadowing over the years as they come through the

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Speaker 2: labs or show short films. And so I trust the

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Speaker 2: programmers there, but you read these log lines and sometimes

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Speaker 2: it just sounds like homework or punishment. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: some really serious sounding stuff, and so it's not always

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Speaker 2: the most exciting the morning of, but I usually feel

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Speaker 2: gratified after seeing the movies there on the ground in

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Speaker 2: Park City.

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Speaker 1: Any names that you've been watching that you're excited about.

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Speaker 2: Sure, this debtails with our research that we do for

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Speaker 2: our ten Directors to Watch list. Three of the filmmakers

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Speaker 2: we have on that list will be bringing the movies

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Speaker 2: Run Amuck, Josephine and if I go, will they miss Me?

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Speaker 2: Terrific movies, among a handful of others that I never

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Speaker 2: confess what I've seen. But if they don't make the list,

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Speaker 2: I can assure you there's other treasures there. Catherine Yan,

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Speaker 2: who directed Dead Pigs and the Birds of Prey movie,

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Speaker 2: is coming with a very starry comedy called The Galeris.

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Speaker 2: That's the one with Natalie Portman and Jenna Ortega. We've

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Speaker 2: got new films from the likes of Greg Aaraki and

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Speaker 2: David Wayne, who will also be bringing anniversary screenings of

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Speaker 2: earlier movies. Sundance is such an incredible place for US

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Speaker 2: pipeline into mainstream Hollywood. So look at someone like Olivia Wilde.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think that last time we saw her

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Speaker 2: in the director's chair, don't worry, Darling became a phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: I think for reasons maybe she wouldn't have preferred to.

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Speaker 2: Now she's back with some new work, one of which

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Speaker 2: is she's the star of the Gregor Racky film with

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Speaker 2: Cooper Hoffman. She's also directing a film called The Invite,

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Speaker 2: which is written by one of my favorites in Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: Will McCormick and Rashida Jones, who did a phenomenal movie

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Speaker 2: called Celestian Jesse Forever, And this is a modern telling

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Speaker 2: of a Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Dinner parties from Hell is my favorite genre of movie.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very excited. Sundance really walks the walk, and

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Speaker 2: that doesn't just talk the talk. When it comes to representation.

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Speaker 2: You look at their lineup this year and it's forty

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Speaker 2: eight percent of the directors or female or identify as

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Speaker 2: female in the competition alone, which is ten films. Seven

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Speaker 2: of them have a female director, maybe a co director,

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Speaker 2: but like and that's true in both the dramatic US

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Speaker 2: and World categories. And you know, this is something where

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Speaker 2: a lot of festivals around the world have been talking

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Speaker 2: about this fIF ffty fifty parody. Sundance got there more

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Speaker 2: than a decade ago, and they've really been sticking to it.

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Speaker 1: I think that goes to show what you can do

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Speaker 1: with intention. And of course a big, big component of

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Speaker 1: Sundance is the buying and selling. It has historically been

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Speaker 1: a great launching pad for many projects. It's been a

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Speaker 1: very vibrant market in the past we know that the

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Speaker 1: market components of film festivals of all sizes and locales

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Speaker 1: have had some struggles in recent years. Matt, as we

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Speaker 1: go into twenty twenty six Sundance, what is your gut

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Speaker 1: at this point about the marketplace? You think you'll see

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Speaker 1: a robust return to the kind of two am closing

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Speaker 1: that hustle and flow deal at two am for big

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Speaker 1: dollars or do you think it'll be a more modest

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Speaker 1: affair this time as it has been in recent years.

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Speaker 3: I think we always pray for festival fever, but unfortunately, Cynthia,

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Speaker 3: the way that this has been trending, even over the

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Speaker 3: past three years has caused a lot of alarm I think,

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Speaker 3: just under the overall indie film ecosystem, especially financially because

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Speaker 3: the length of time from premiere screenings, which you know,

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Speaker 3: as you mentioned earlier. Sundance is known for smacking the

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Speaker 3: dust off of people after a long holiday and galvanizing

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Speaker 3: entire audiences that come together on their feet, for really

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Speaker 3: compelling original stories that lead to all night bidding wars

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Speaker 3: and just a bunch of sales agents sitting and drinking

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Speaker 3: coffee until five am hammering out the deal deal terms.

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Speaker 3: But The way it's been trending is that the length

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Speaker 3: of time it takes to get these deals papered is

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Speaker 3: troublingly long. I would say the last three biggest films,

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Speaker 3: two of which one Sundance's Grand Jury Prize, took almost

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Speaker 3: a year from premiere to get an actual distribution deal,

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Speaker 3: which effectively removes the teeth from a huge buzz campaign.

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Speaker 3: It used to be you'd have an amazing premiere from

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Speaker 3: a Sundance in January and you'd wind up dancing into

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Speaker 3: the awards cycle for the next year. But now I

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Speaker 3: think there's so much time is lapsing in between, especially

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Speaker 3: when it comes to theatrical releases for a lot of

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Speaker 3: these indie films. And don't worry if you thought that

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Speaker 3: there was a corner of the world that Warner Brothers

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Speaker 3: Netflix isn't touching. I think that absolutely the same entity

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Speaker 3: at theatrical releases, especially for smaller budget films, will be

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Speaker 3: very top of mind for everybody in Park City this year.

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Speaker 1: I would suspect that the disruption and the uncertainty of

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Speaker 1: it all is going to impact buyers. In recent years,

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Speaker 1: some of the titles that have sold for impressive dollars

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Speaker 1: have then gone on to not really perform, certainly not

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Speaker 1: perform at the box office, and that's got to be

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Speaker 1: a factor.

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Speaker 3: Another interesting wrinkle in why there's so much gum in

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Speaker 3: the works of these deals is efficiencies that were forced

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Speaker 3: in screening process by the COVID nineteen pandemics, you know,

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Speaker 3: when Sundance had to do a virtual addition. So many

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Speaker 3: of these titles were launched on digital platforms, and it

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Speaker 3: honestly made even after as the pandemic sort of like ebbed.

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Speaker 3: It made it not necessary for buyers and agents and

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Speaker 3: other people other industry types having to fly in person

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Speaker 3: to Sundance to sit through these screenings, which is where

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Speaker 3: a lot of the magic happens is in the darken

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Speaker 3: theater together and everyone's like miserable in their sweaters and

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Speaker 3: sharing tea and gum and it's very sweet. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's a much different experience when you're a perspective buyer

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Speaker 3: sitting at home in your living room or god forbid,

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Speaker 3: on your laptop at work, watching a movie deciding whether

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Speaker 3: or not you want to commit to putting on your

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Speaker 3: slate and giving into the world. So I think that

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Speaker 3: Suentance has to make a decision as it moves forward,

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Speaker 3: especially as they look ahead to changing locales from Salt

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Speaker 3: Lake Study too older, if they want to just cease

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Speaker 3: this online program entirely to put all the urgency and

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Speaker 3: all again that magic in the ring at the actual festival.

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Speaker 2: It's such a great point, Matt. Just you know, we

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Speaker 2: can all remember kind of the excitement of seeing a

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Speaker 2: premiere at the Echos and what that meant. Now going

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Speaker 2: into the film festival, I will have seen half of

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Speaker 2: my workload in advance by myself in a dark room

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Speaker 2: in la and or on a link and it's just

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Speaker 2: not the same thing. And obviously buyers are kind of

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Speaker 2: doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that with the move to Boulder there

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Speaker 1: will be any new elements to the marketplace of it all.

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Speaker 1: Will they take steps to try to make sure that

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Speaker 1: people have to be incentivized to be there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is I have a very simple

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Speaker 3: answer for this, but it's kind of one of those

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Speaker 3: things that makes all the sense in the world. One

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Speaker 3: of the biggest reasons that I think Sundance was looking

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Speaker 3: for a new host city is because Park City was

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Speaker 3: only willing to go so far and building actual cineplexes

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Speaker 3: to house it in Boulder. There will be so much

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Speaker 3: more opportunity to see these films in proper theaters, not

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Speaker 3: you know, like makeshift gym auditoriums with folding chairs, or

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Speaker 3: you know, decommissioned shopping markets that have like stadium style

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Speaker 3: seats installed for two weeks. It's an actual accommodation in

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Speaker 3: theaters where movies are meant to be seen, but also

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Speaker 3: where more tickets can be sold. So I think in

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Speaker 3: that way too, it won't be such a slog It's

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Speaker 3: sort of like it's easier to wear slippers than carpet

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Speaker 3: the world, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So I love a footwear analogy.

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Speaker 2: I love it because it was really Delta, a heavy

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Speaker 2: blow by the pandemic, and then budgets and everything about

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Speaker 2: the changing industry has it shrinking to the point that

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the people will be high

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Speaker 2: tailing it out of town on Monday Tuesday. And when

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Speaker 2: we talked the other day to Eugene Hernandez, the director

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Speaker 2: of the festival, he really wanted to stress it. This

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Speaker 2: year they're really trying to celebrate the final year in

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Speaker 2: Park City by having some special screening, some panels and

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Speaker 2: something that he teased that would be after the awards

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Speaker 2: show on the final Friday, just to really have that

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Speaker 2: presence there throughout the whole week. But he's up against budgets,

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Speaker 2: he's up against habits that have been broken, where people

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Speaker 2: just aren't staying through the full eleven days like they

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Speaker 2: used to. Even for film industry professionals. That's a big

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Speaker 2: commitment in this day and age.

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Speaker 1: Well, no matter what, it's one of our biggest out

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Speaker 1: of town editorial efforts of the year. We send a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. We're going to cover every stitch of

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Speaker 1: this and of course this year's will also be the

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Speaker 1: first Sundance since the passing of Robert Redford in September,

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Speaker 1: just a landmark person in our industry. You both have

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Speaker 1: covered Sundance many many times, and while Redford's presence had

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Speaker 1: eased up a little bit in recent years, I know

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Speaker 1: his spirit is really loons large over it. How do

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Speaker 1: you think people are going to be talking about him.

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Speaker 3: If you spend enough time on the ground in Park City.

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Speaker 3: You know, back in his heyday, there was always going

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Speaker 3: to be a Redford sighting that you had that meant

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Speaker 3: the world. I think my second time ever going in

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Speaker 3: the dark ages, I was not adequately dressed like I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I thought for some reason that Utah wouldn't be as,

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Speaker 3: would not be as. And Robert only ever wore a

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Speaker 3: leather jacket and jeans. He never wore any vortex or

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Speaker 3: gloves or scarves or hats. And I was complaining outside

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Speaker 3: of the press office and he literally walked by and

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Speaker 3: he said, suck it up. And I think it's my

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Speaker 3: favorite Robert Redford memory of alt right and also like

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Speaker 3: to learn how to dress correctly and also totally signed note.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons I'm dead seriously to

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Speaker 3: journalists because I saw up close and personal as a

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Speaker 3: child and it really got it hooks in me and

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Speaker 3: I love him so much. Yeah, I think there's gonna

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Speaker 3: be a lot of sentimentality and a lot of really

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Speaker 3: great Redford unmissible moments.

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Speaker 2: I think they'll be showing Redford's movie Downhill Racer, which

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Speaker 2: is really the one that he pointed to is the

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Speaker 2: inspiration for sundance, for the need for an institution that

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Speaker 2: would sort of support the kind of voices that allowed

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Speaker 2: him to make that movie outside the system.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to both of you for walking us through what

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Speaker 1: to expect and what significant. Really appreciate your time on

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Speaker 1: a really busy week for our business. And now we

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Speaker 1: turn to the Game Awards. Jennifer Moz, Variety Senior business

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Speaker 1: writer for TV and Video Games, flew out to LA

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Speaker 1: to cover tonight's ceremony. The Game Awards have become an

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Speaker 1: important date on the calendar for the gaming business. As

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Speaker 1: Jennifer explains, here's a clip of Game Awards founder and

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Speaker 1: host Jeff Keeley kicking off last year's ceremony, and that's

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Speaker 1: followed by my conversation with Jennifer.

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Speaker 4: Good evening, everybody, Welcome to the Game Awards, the biggest

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Speaker 4: global celebration of video games out there. You know, when

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Speaker 4: we started TJA in twenty fourteen, we had no idea

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Speaker 4: would become as big as it is around the world.

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Speaker 4: But I felt, like so many of you, that games

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Speaker 4: and the people who make them and the fans deserve

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Speaker 4: a moment like this. You watch this show because games

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Speaker 4: are part of your identity. They mean something to you.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Moz, you've been reporting since you stepped off the

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Speaker 1: plane at lax on Tuesday. How you holding up doing okay?

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Speaker 5: Hanging in there, lots of coffee and lots of exciting

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Speaker 5: announcements keeping me awake.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're in reporting warrior mode to cover the Game Awards,

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Speaker 1: which I took in with you last year. It was

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Speaker 1: very eye opening. I genuinely learned a lot about the

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Speaker 1: ethos and the spirit of the gaming community. Tell us

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Speaker 1: what's new and different about the Game Awards this year.

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Speaker 5: So Jeff Kelley, who pioneered the awards, this is the

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Speaker 5: eleventh year that they're doing them, and it is the

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Speaker 5: first year that it has would all called a traditional

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Speaker 5: streaming partner. So previously it was available on YouTube and

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Speaker 5: you could stream it on Twitch, and it was available

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Speaker 5: and mainly a digital first online viewership. This it's also

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Speaker 5: going to be online, but it's going to also have

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Speaker 5: Prime video, and so Amazon is also taking every opportunity

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Speaker 5: plug in Fallout season two. Great games high in right there,

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Speaker 5: and so they're taking those chances to tie in their

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Speaker 5: content as well. And then the Game Awards will have

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Speaker 5: a plethora of other announcements acrops, studios and publishers during

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Speaker 5: the show.

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Speaker 1: So, as I learned last year, during the actual presentation

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Speaker 1: of the awards, in between the awards, they announced significant

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Speaker 1: news release dates. World premieres would you say, the gaming

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Speaker 1: fan they're watching because they know that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be news tidbits flowing out throughout the night. Absolutely.

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Speaker 5: So one of the things that distinguishes the Game Awards

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Speaker 5: from say the Emmys or the Oscars, well, it's considered

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Speaker 5: like the pinnacle of its industry at the moment. For awards,

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Speaker 5: it is interspersed with trailers, with announcements, with release date content.

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Speaker 5: Last year, the big finale wasn't just an award. They

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Speaker 5: announced Game of the Year, but then after they announced

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Speaker 5: Game of the Year, the studio behind The Last of

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Speaker 5: Us revealed what their next game will be and they

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Speaker 5: had the first footage of that game. So that's something

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Speaker 5: that's very specific to this war show and also that

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Speaker 5: makes it longer than others, But it keeps people tuned

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Speaker 5: in because between those awards they are going to find

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Speaker 5: out about the next year's big things, right, So it

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Speaker 5: like sets up the gaming industry for its next year

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Speaker 5: while celebrating its previous year.

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Speaker 1: In addition to tonight's awards ceremony, you've been busy since

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Speaker 1: you got here taking meetings. This event galvanizes a lot

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Speaker 1: of news and marketing activity in the gaming business. It

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Speaker 1: seems like I have had meetings all week. I've gone

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Speaker 1: to events all.

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Speaker 5: Week, gotten to see a lot of things that will

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Speaker 5: be seen in the room tonight early, which is always exciting.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, everyone's in town, everyone wants to meet. It's

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Speaker 5: rare all the people in the gaming world are in

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Speaker 5: LA together at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I was trying not to ask this, but I

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Speaker 1: think I have to ask this, Jennifer. Is this the

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Speaker 1: OSCARS of video game awards? Is it the prestigious one

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Speaker 1: that people really care about.

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Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, and that's not for lack of trying, like

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Speaker 5: across game awards, but nothing else has really.

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Speaker 1: Broken through in this way. Is is there a horse

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Speaker 1: race aspect to the competitive awards? Do people in the

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Speaker 1: industry really sit there and try to game out? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's going to win Game of the Year? Is there

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Speaker 1: like a movie and TV level intensity to awards in

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Speaker 1: the gaming world. Yes, very much so.

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Speaker 5: And this year in particular, when the nominations came out,

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Speaker 5: an indie developer called Sandfall has had the game swept

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Speaker 5: nominations called Claire Obscure Expedition thirty three. It's a first

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Speaker 5: time game from an indie studio and that game is

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Speaker 5: poised to win Game of the Year, and I would

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Speaker 5: be very surprised if it does not, So there's definitely

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Speaker 5: conversations surrounding that and what that means for the industry

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Speaker 5: when an indie title can break through like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, Jennet, good luck covering the ceremony. You have a

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Speaker 1: lot of headlines to launch. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: working so hard and covering this really important sector with

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Speaker 1: such gusto. You're welcome. As we close out today's episode,

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Speaker 1: here's a few things we're watching for. A five part

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Speaker 1: docuseries on women's sports debuts December fifteenth on Peacock. The

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Speaker 1: Rise hails from Hello Sunshine. It consists of five feature

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Speaker 1: length documentaries on the WNBA, women of Nascar, and other topics.

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime Video will launch The CEO Club on February

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Speaker 1: twenty third. That docuseries will follow Serena Williams and other

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Speaker 1: prominent women as they pursue business ventures. We love to

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Speaker 1: hear from our listeners, so please send thoughts, scripes, and

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Speaker 1: other feedback about Daily Variety to podcasts at Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: Before we go, Congrats to Susanna Zapada. She has joined

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Speaker 1: Visualization Studio the third Floor. As head of Strategic Partnerships.

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Speaker 1: Zepeda has worked in programming, events and brand partnerships for

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, Discovery, Disney, and NBC Universal. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: This episode was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton,

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Speaker 1: with contributions from Peter De Bruce, Matt Donnelly, and Jenny

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Speaker 1: from Most Stick Snacks Hick Picks. Please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review with the podcast platform of your choice, and please

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Speaker 1: tune in Monday for another episode of Daily Variety and

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Speaker 1: don't forget to tell us what you think at podcastsat

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Speaker 1: Variety dot com. Thanks