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Cards issued by JP 43 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 5: Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval 44 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 5: offer subject to change terms apply. 45 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, what pets do you have these days? 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: Oh, we just have our rescue dog, Peppite. 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 4: Do haven't you had other pets in the past, like rodents. 48 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: We did have rats for a time, and we actually 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: had cats before that. 50 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 4: Oh what happened Pepito ate them? 51 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: No, we've never had a pet eat another pet. We've 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: only lost them to old age. 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 4: Old age. Huh. All that dark chocolate and big goods 54 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 4: in your house just did them in with the heart attack. 55 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: We don't feed dark chocolate at the dog, but everybody 56 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: does eat pretty well at our house. 57 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 4: Unless you like white chocolate, then your starve. 58 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: You know, if that's the reason you run away from home, 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: then maybe you never were really a white sun. 60 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: Wait, if you don't like white chocolate, you're not a 61 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 4: white son. It sounds like a white lie. 62 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: I have a dark secret. 63 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 6: Hi. 64 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: I am Poor hammy cartoonists and the author of Oliver's 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 4: Great Big Universe. 66 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: at UC Irvine, and I will not waiver in my 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: campaign for dark chocolate. 69 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 4: Dark chocolate, dark matter. You're just a very dark physicist. 70 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: I'm trying to bring light to the world at the 71 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: same time as exposed all the dark secrets of the universe. 72 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 4: Oh, you're trying to expose dark matter. I thought you 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 4: were all about letting the universe. 74 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: Be Absolutely not. I do not believe in universe privacy. 75 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: You're like the universe paparazzi. 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, except I'm not selling it to the 77 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: National Inquirer. I'm just publishing papers. 78 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 4: Well, your buyer is the cosmological inquirer, the human inquirer. 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: Inquiring brains want to know. 80 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you stand outside their home, like, hey, dark 81 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 4: matter over here, over here, snapping pictures. 82 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: If I knew where dark matter lived, I would definitely 83 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: go there with my dark matter camera. 84 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 4: I thought dark matter was all around us. It lives 85 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: in US and within us. It surrounds us and binds 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: the galaxy together. 87 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, it's everywhere. We just don't know how 88 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: to take a picture of it. 89 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 4: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain 90 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 4: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio. 91 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: In which we join our inquiring minds with yours to 92 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: wonder together about the nature of the universe, To think 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: deeply about how everything comes together to make the cosmos 94 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: and the night sky that we appreciate, To think about 95 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: how the tiniest particles and the most massive black holes 96 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: shape the very world we live in, and whether it 97 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: has always looked this way. 98 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 4: That's right. We satisfy our curiosity for stars and what 99 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 4: they're doing with their lives, and we take pictures and 100 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 4: also sound recordings of what's out there in the universe 101 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: and what's going on to maybe get a clue about 102 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 4: how it all works. 103 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: We'd like to figure out the fundamental nature of the 104 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 2: universal laws that everything follows. But we'd also like to 105 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: know the story of the universe. What happened, How did 106 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 2: we end up where we are? How long have things 107 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: looked this way for? How long can we rely on 108 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: things to look this way? Do we live in a 109 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 2: momentary blip of the universe or is this a long 110 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: term trend? 111 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, Looking at our past is a way to look 112 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 4: into our future. We can try to deduce what the 113 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 4: rules of the universe are and what they might mean 114 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 4: for us in the deep future. What is going to 115 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 4: be the future of humanity here in our solar system? 116 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 4: Can we call this our home for the next few 117 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 4: billion years? 118 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: Are you not planning to move out of that house 119 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: for a few billion years so your kids can always 120 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: come home and their kids and their kids and their kids. 121 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 4: But we're kind of just squatting in this solar system, 122 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 4: right like we just popped in here, started living here. 123 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 4: We didn't ask if anyone owned these planets. What if 124 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 4: the real owners come back one day they're like, what 125 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:11,119 Speaker 4: is going on here? 126 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: Call pest control, m Don't we have some sort of 127 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: like solar B and B contract squatter rights? Maybe exactly 128 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: after one hundred million years we're officially allowed to call 129 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: ourselves the owners. But it's a good question how long 130 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: things have looked this way. When you look by the 131 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: night guy, you expect to see basically the same stars 132 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: as you did a year ago, and you know that 133 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 2: you're looking at roughly the same stars that Newton looked at, 134 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: and the Egyptians looked at and the Sumerians looked at 135 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: thousands of years ago. But the solar system operates on 136 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: a very different kind of time scale than your life 137 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: or even human civilization, and in fast forward things don't 138 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: seem so stable. They seem quite chaotic and dynamic. 139 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. When we were all kids, we learned in school 140 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 4: about the different planets in our Solar system and how 141 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 4: many of there are. And that's basically the same story 142 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 4: that our kids are learning in school as well, right, Like, 143 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 4: it hasn't really changed on much, except maybe for Pluto. 144 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: We of course change what we mean by a planet 145 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: and make up new categories all the time. But you're right, 146 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: the stuff that's out there that we're seeing, whatever name 147 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: we give it, hasn't changed in our lifetime or in 148 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: our grandparents' lifetime. 149 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I guess you kind of get the 150 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 4: sense that maybe it will never change, you know, you 151 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 4: sort of memorize these facts and these things and think 152 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 4: that maybe it's going to be like that forever. But actually, 153 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 4: if you look at the grand scale of the Solar 154 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: System and the universe in our galaxy, things are rapidly changing. 155 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 4: If you look at it from that point of view. 156 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: If the Solar System changes, do you think we all 157 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: have to go back to elementary school to learn a 158 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: new mnemonic? 159 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 4: Oh, there's a mnemonic. I didn't grow up yours. I 160 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 4: don't know what do you use? Obviously the mnemonic didn't 161 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 4: work because you don't remember it. 162 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: There's a lot of mnemonics to help you memorize the 163 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: order of the planets. One of them is my very 164 00:07:52,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: easy method, just speeds up nothing, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. 165 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 4: Whoa, that is so not kit friendly. How many kids 166 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 4: use methods and have methods? 167 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: The history of them is actually really funny. There's ones 168 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 2: from the fifties that go like, men very easily make jugs, 169 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: serve useful needs. 170 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: Perhaps, Oh, man, I wonder why we'd stopped using that one. 171 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: And then a more recent one says, my very energetic 172 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: mother jumps skateboards under nana's patio. 173 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: Oh, there you go. That's a pretty good one, and 174 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: true as well for some people. 175 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: I'm sure my very educated mother just served usnaches. Oh 176 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: that's an even tastier one, exactly. But the point is 177 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 2: that though these things have seemed stable for a long time, 178 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: it's not necessarily true that they always will be. 179 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, things are always changing, and in fact, you can 180 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 4: ask the question of whether our solar sysm had more 181 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 4: planets in the past. 182 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: It might be that the planets we know today are 183 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 2: not all the planets that have ever orbited our star. 184 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: And if we had more, what happened to them? So 185 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 4: today on the podcast we'll be tackling the question has 186 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 4: our Solar system lost any planets? That just seems kind 187 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 4: of irresponsible there. How can you lose a whole planet? 188 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: I mean I had it in my hands and then 189 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 2: I put my keys down and the last. 190 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 4: Place having that planet was on top of the dog. 191 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: Blamed the dog. Huh, that's the first thing. 192 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 4: The dog ate my planet. 193 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: Classic excuse, or maybe it just went rogue because it 194 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: needed to find a white chocolate friendly solar system, you know, 195 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: maybe it just didn't fit in here. 196 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 4: It just rebelled against your tyranny of trying to dictate 197 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 4: what kind of chocolate people should eat or feel good 198 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 4: about eating. Doctor Wison, you call it tyranny. 199 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: I call it wisdom. Let's call the whole thing off. 200 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I'll tire and say at two. But yeah, 201 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 4: So it's been an interesting story of the Solar System. 202 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 4: You got to wonder if maybe if we had more 203 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 4: than nine or eight planets in the past, Well, we 204 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 4: definitely had more planets to pay in the past before 205 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: Pluto got downgraded, but that's a separate story and a 206 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 4: separate reason. 207 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 7: Right. 208 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, Pluto is still there. It's just not called the 209 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: planet anymore. It's called a dwarf planet. 210 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 4: Right. But we can ask a question of whether our 211 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 4: Solar system did really have other giant planets like Jupiter 212 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 4: or Mars or Venus. But maybe they decided they didn't 213 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 4: like it here. 214 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: It's really fun to dig into the history of the 215 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: Solar System and understand how we got here, how it 216 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: might have been different, and give us a sense for 217 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: what other solar systems out there are likely to look like. 218 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 4: So, as usual, we were wondering how many people had 219 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 4: thought about the question of whether our Solar system lost 220 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 4: any planets, or at least misplaced them temporarily. Maybe, So, 221 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 4: as usual, Daniel went out there into the internet to 222 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 4: ask people has our Solar system lost any planets? 223 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: Thanks very much to our group of volunteers. We greatly 224 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: appreciate them, but we also would like to add you 225 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: to their ranks. Please don't be shy write to me 226 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: to questions at Danielanjorge dot com. 227 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 4: What do people get I know if they sign up? 228 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: The satisfaction of hearing their voice on the podcast, and 229 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: a weekly injection of hard physics questions. 230 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 4: And also a monthly supply of white chocolate that gets 231 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 4: kicked out of your house. 232 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: I will send you exactly zero grams of white chocolate. 233 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 4: Well, think about it for a second. Do you think 234 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 4: our Solar System has lost any planets? Here's what people 235 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 4: had to say. 236 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 8: I don't know if we can know for sure, maybe 237 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 8: by the orbits of current planets, but I'd have to 238 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 8: assume given the five billion years or so that or 239 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 8: some spent around, that at least one planet has come 240 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 8: in and been kicked out. But maybe it depends on 241 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 8: if we consider those objects planets. 242 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 6: So I think that there have been planets knocked out 243 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 6: of the Solar System, especially since when the Solar System 244 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 6: was first created there would have been loads of rocks 245 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 6: flying around to form planets. So then there would have 246 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 6: been planets formed and then hit by maybe another planet 247 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 6: which knocked them out of the system. 248 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 7: Not that I know of, they're all accounted for. Some 249 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 7: of them have lost the designation planet, like Pluto. I 250 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 7: think regularly objects get flung out of Solar systems due 251 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 7: to gravitational interactions with other. 252 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 2: Lown j objects. 253 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 7: So I can imagine Jupiter getting tired of some planet 254 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 7: and flinging it out. Maybe when we're forming all the 255 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 7: planets performing them, some of them were close to the 256 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 7: Sun and got gabbled up. I'm curious to know if 257 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 7: there's any record of planets that we're here in now 258 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 7: or not. 259 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 9: Apart from the reclassification of Pluto as a dwarf planet, 260 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 9: meaning that we've effectively lost one planet, I have heard 261 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 9: rumors about a tenth planet, which would now be a 262 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 9: ninth planet, that potentially orbited within our inner Solar System 263 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 9: and then could have collided with Earth and created the 264 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 9: Moon and then spun off out into an orbit way 265 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 9: out in our outer Sodo System. Other than that, I'm 266 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 9: unaware of any lost planets. 267 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 4: Interesting answers. It seems to be all over the place. 268 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 4: Some people say yes, some people say no, not really, 269 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 4: some people say poor Pluto. 270 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: There does generally seem to be an appreciation of the 271 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: fact that the Solar System might not have always been 272 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: an orderly, stately placed that there might have been primordial chaos. 273 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 4: That's right. It was a big party here in the 274 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: Solar System, where we're kind of in the after party 275 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 4: of the Solar System. 276 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: Right, We're waking up the next morning going, man, what happened? 277 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: And has anybody seen a dog? 278 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, why am I waking up next to Venus here? 279 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 4: How did that happen? 280 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: And why is the hot tub filled with white chocolate? 281 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? So let's start with the basics, Daniel, is it 282 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 4: even possible for Solar system to lose the planet? I 283 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 4: thought that, you know, once you form, things are kind 284 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 4: of stuck to you gravitationally in orbits, or that at 285 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 4: least that it's hard to escape the gravitational field of 286 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 4: like Sun or all these planets. Wouldn't they either fall 287 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 4: in or go into a stable orbit. 288 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: I think the key idea is the word you used, form, Like, 289 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: when do you consider the Solar System to have formed? 290 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: The Solar system? Formation is a slow and gradual, constant process. 291 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 2: It's basically always changing. And so you can go all 292 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: the way back to the very beginning of the Solar 293 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 2: system to understand the chaos of that formation and understand 294 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: that that formation is a constant process, that things are 295 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: always potentially bumping into each other and disturbing each other. 296 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 4: Wait, are you saying that if we leave the window 297 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: open for the fact that maybe the Solar System is 298 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 4: still forming. Does that mean we technically haven't lost any planets, 299 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: like Kenny you said in my real life. 300 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: No, it just means that during the formation, planets could 301 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: form and be lost. There is no final form to 302 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: the Solar System. It's a constantly evolving thing. It's not 303 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: like at some point somebody says, Okay, the Solar System 304 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: is finished, let's package it and ship it and move 305 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: on to the next project. 306 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 4: I see. It's like a Pokemon, is what you're saying. 307 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 4: It's always evolving, it's looking for its final form. 308 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: I don't know enough about Pokemon to know whether that 309 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: analogy holds, so I'm just gonna trust you on that. 310 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 4: I don't know either. To be honest, I just heard 311 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 4: final form and it made me think of Pokemon. 312 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: Well, it's sort of in the same way that animals 313 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: never have a final form. Evolution is a constant process. 314 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: Things are always changing in response to the environment. 315 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 4: Except for crocodiles and sharks, they're pretty settled there in 316 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 4: their plateau. 317 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah that's true. 318 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, but let me take us through some of the 319 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 4: early history of the Solar System. How do we get 320 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 4: planets in the first place. 321 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: So planetary formation is a super fascinating topic and it 322 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: helps us understand like the formation of the Solar System 323 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: as a whole. Remember that the Solar System forms from 324 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: the collapse of a huge cloud of like gas and dust. 325 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: It's mostly hydrogen, which is made in the Big Bang, 326 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: and it's also interspersed with a bunch of other heavier 327 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: stuff that's made from other solar systems where the stars 328 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: have already fused heavier elements out of that hydrogen. So 329 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: you have this big cloud of mostly hydrogen with a 330 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: few heavier bits in it, and it collapses into stars. 331 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: You don't just get one solar system. You typically get 332 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: several made at the same time. In one of these 333 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: stellar nurseries, we have a big blob of this stuff 334 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: and it collapses and most of the stuff goes into 335 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: the center to make a star, like ninety nine percent 336 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: of the stuff goes in to make the star. But 337 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: you typically have a disk of gas and dust that's 338 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: orbiting that star. It's spinning too fast to collapse in 339 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 2: the way the Moon is orbiting the Earth without falling 340 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: into the Earth, and so you get this protoplanetary disk 341 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: around this new star and that disc then coalesces into 342 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: larger stuff. Gravity is doing the work there to pull 343 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: the gas and dust in the disc into heavier things. 344 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: And where you have like little spots of iron or 345 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: little spots of heavier metals, those things will use their 346 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: gravity to form larger objects. 347 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 4: But I think the Solar system formed into a disc first, 348 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: and then the star kind of ignited. 349 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: Right. The moment of ignition depends a little bit on 350 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: the mass of the star. I mean, in some cases 351 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: you don't even get ignition if there isn't enough mass there. 352 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: You have like a subcritical brown dwarf, but it's definitely 353 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: collapsing into a disc as it forms, right, a big 354 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: amorphous blob is going to collapse, and it's going to 355 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: collapse into a disc shape because of its angular rotation. 356 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: So the two things can sort of happen simultaneously. And 357 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: when ignition happens depends on the mass of the star, right. 358 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 4: And there's also kind of an intermediate step there where 359 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 4: the disc kind of turns into rings for a while. 360 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 4: Right before you get the planets. 361 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: Exactly, you get the seeding of structure and they pull 362 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: together into larger and larger objects, and rings are basically 363 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: just clusters of larger objects. So you get these gaps emerging, 364 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: and then you get those things formed together into planets 365 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: or not, depending on the tidal forces. A large object 366 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: can form and sort of gather up a lot of 367 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: the gas and dust near it, and then it can 368 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 2: also distort the other stuff nearby, preventing it from forming. 369 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a chaotic process in the beginning, 370 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: and it also depends a little bit on your distance 371 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: from the star. As a point, it's called the snow line, 372 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 2: after which water tends to be ice tends to be solid, 373 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: and before which it tends to be vapor. Like if 374 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: you're close enough to the star, it's warm enough that 375 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: the water is vapor and if you're further from that point, 376 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: the water is frozen. That helps form giant planets. So 377 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: you tend to have these large planets with ice and 378 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: rock seeding structure on the outer part of the Solar 379 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: System past the snow line, and then less ice, so 380 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: smaller planets before the snow line in the inner Solar System. 381 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: Right in the inner Solar System, you get all the 382 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: rocky planets. 383 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: Right exactly because the gas there is blown away by 384 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: the radiation from the ignition of the Sun in the 385 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: very beginning of the Solar System, the Sun is pumping 386 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: out a huge amount of ultraviolet, very high energy photons, 387 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 2: which tends to blast the inner planets clean, which is why, 388 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 2: like our initial atmosphere on Earth was blown off by 389 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 2: this stellar wind in the very early years of the 390 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: Solar System. So you get the rocky planets in the core, 391 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: and then you get the gas and ice giants out 392 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 2: past the snow line. 393 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 4: Right, And I think the process is like, yep, these 394 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 4: rings kind of like Saturn has rings right now, and 395 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 4: the rings eventually little by little collapse into planets or 396 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 4: first planet tesimals first, right. 397 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, planet tesimal is a super fun word. They sound 398 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 2: like many cute little planets where they're basically like building 399 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: blocks of planets, and they don't always form, right, which 400 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: is why you have like the asteroid belt and the 401 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: Kuiper Belt. It depends on the tidal forces of the 402 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 2: nearby stuff, so it's not happening in isolation. This is 403 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: complicated interplay between all of the objects. 404 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 4: Right, But it's kind of a bit of a runaway process, 405 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 4: like once you seed a planet or once more you know, 406 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 4: some planetesimals mosh together, then that becomes kind of a 407 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 4: center of gravity and more and more stone falls into it, 408 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 4: and that's kind of how you get a planet, right. 409 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of how you get a planet exactly. 410 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 2: And in this initial picture, everything forms very orderly, like 411 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: they tend to be mostly in the same plane, and 412 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 2: it be mostly circular because you have this big disc 413 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: as we say, that collapses in the rings and then 414 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 2: planeti ismals and then planets. But once you have these 415 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: large objects formed with their own significant gravity, then they 416 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: can start to tug on each other pretty hard, and 417 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 2: you can get instabilities, you can get chaos, you can 418 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 2: get resonances, and that's how planets can migrate, and they 419 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: can tug on each other and you might even lose. 420 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 4: One, right, because I guess there's no guarantee that your 421 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 4: orbit is going to be stable. I mean, it's such 422 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 4: a complex and you know, there's so many things moving 423 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 4: around that there's no guarantee that you're even if you're 424 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 4: orbiting around the Sun, you're going to be there forever, 425 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 4: because something else might come around and knock you off 426 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: your orbit or pull you away from your orbit, right. 427 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: And that can be things from outside the Solar system, 428 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 2: like a passing star can nudge something and perturb the 429 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: otherwise stable orbits of the Solar Like even just a 430 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: little nudge from a star that's coming nearby, it's not 431 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 2: like it has to pass right through the Solar system, 432 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: can cause a cascade effect of instabilities. But also just 433 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 2: like the planetismals and the Kuiper Belt or the asteroid 434 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: belt can tug on stuff, and enough of that happening 435 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: can cause things to. 436 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 4: Go wonky and wonky they might have gone in our 437 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 4: Solar system, perhaps wonk enough to lose a couple of 438 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 4: planets here and there. And so let's get into that 439 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 4: idea and whether or not we did misplace a couple 440 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 4: of planets in our history. But first let's take a 441 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 4: quick break. 442 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 2: With big wireless providers, what you see is never what 443 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 2: you get. 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How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases? 502 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from 503 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and 504 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 2: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice 505 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that 506 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 2: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the 507 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense dairy 508 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: products we love with less of an impact. Visit us 509 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more. 510 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 4: All Right, we're talking about whether our solar system has 511 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 4: lost any planets. I feel like that sounds very irresponsible 512 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 4: of the solar system. Can would you say, like, have 513 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 4: any planets escaped our solar system? 514 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: Maybe we've grown up and graduated planets. They're like off 515 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: into the universe living their best lives. 516 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go. You don't want it to live 517 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 4: at home forever. 518 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 2: Exactly when your kid graduates and goes to college, you 519 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: don't consider that you've lost them. 520 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go. So have we shepherded planets out 521 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 4: into the larger cosmos is the question of the day. 522 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, in this scenario, they would like come back and 523 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: visit with their own little moons or something that we 524 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: could coop over. Oh look, how cute. 525 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, except we already turned their bedroom into 526 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 4: like a workout room or a craft room, and so 527 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 4: now there's no room for them. 528 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: Sorry about that, your orbits being used? 529 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 4: Yes, sorry, you'll have to airbnb a nearby apartment or something. 530 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 4: But yeah, so it's possible in the early chaos of 531 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 4: a solar system to lose a planet, right because things 532 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 4: aren't quite settled. Even though we're all bound gravitationally to 533 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 4: the central star, things can get kind of wonky and 534 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 4: maybe wanky enough to actually fling a planet out into space. 535 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 2: Exactly and when this happens is sort of the most 536 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: recent question people have been struggling with. There's a classic 537 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: model of the formation of the Solar System and how 538 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: the planets move around that we'll talk about. It's called 539 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 2: the Nie model because it was developed by researchers in Nice, France, 540 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: that has a bit of an issue with when exactly 541 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: all this chaos happened. That might be solved by a 542 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: more recent model with a different picture for how these 543 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: instabilities might have been triggered. 544 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 4: Well, now, I wonder if some listeners out there might 545 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 4: be confused about how you can lose a planet, Like, 546 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 4: there isn't that much around us, right in terms of 547 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 4: other Solar systems or any large stars or galaxy or 548 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 4: you know, very heavy objects. So even if something gets 549 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 4: flung into space, wouldn't it eventually come back? 550 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: You're right that space near the Solar System is pretty empty. 551 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: I mean, the closest star is light years away, and 552 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 2: so its gravitational pull is pretty weak. But you can 553 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 2: still have an escape velocity. If you throw something hard 554 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: enough off the Earth, it will leave the Earth and 555 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 2: never return. If you throw something out of the Solar 556 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: system with enough velocity enough to escape the gravitational well 557 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 2: of the Solar system, then it will not return. 558 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 4: Mmmmm yeah, I think we talked about that in an 559 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 4: other episode. It's kind of a weird kind of math, right, 560 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 4: Like you need to have enough velocity so that as 561 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 4: you get further and further, the pool of gravity pulling 562 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 4: your back gets weaker and weaker, and so actually you 563 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 4: kind of outrun the pool of gravity exactly. 564 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 2: It seemed confusing because you know that gravity has an 565 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: infinite extent, like no matter how far away you are, 566 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: and the Sun is always pulling on you. But just 567 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 2: because there are infinite number of contributions doesn't mean it 568 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 2: adds up to an infinite force. It's just like any 569 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 2: integral or converging series. It can add to a finite 570 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: amount of energy. So as long as you have more energy, 571 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 2: then the sum of all the tugs the Sun will 572 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: ever pull on you, you can escape the Solar System. 573 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: So if, for example, you have a planet that gets 574 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: a push from another planet and gets flung out into 575 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: the deep dark space, it might never return. 576 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess sort of like we've done with spacecraft 577 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 4: that we sent out into space. Right like it left 578 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 4: Earth eventually it was going so fast it left the 579 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 4: gravity of Earth and through the gravity of maybe other planets. 580 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 4: And now we have some that are going out of 581 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 4: the Solar System exactly. 582 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 2: That can be a little bit more complicated because they 583 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 2: can have rockets and they can use gravitational assists from 584 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 2: other planets, but the principle is the same. Like Voyager 585 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: and Pioneer, they have enough velocity that they're leaving the 586 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: Solar System without any more rocket burns or gravitational assists. 587 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: It's definitely possible to leave home. 588 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 11: All right. 589 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 4: Well, now the question here today is have we actually 590 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 4: lost any planets? Did the Solar System have more planets 591 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 4: than the eight that we have now, and have we 592 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 4: misplaced any or have any left home? 593 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: But if you look at the pattern of the planets 594 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 2: that we have now and you try to tell a 595 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: story about how we got there, it's a hard thing 596 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 2: to do without another planet. The patterns that we see 597 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: in the eccentricities of the planets and the structure of 598 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: the Kuiper Belt and the asteroids is much easier to 599 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: explain if there was at one point another ice giant 600 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: like Neptune that was flung out of the Solar System. 601 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 4: I mean, you sort of look at how the planets 602 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 4: are moving now and their orbits, and you basically hit 603 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 4: the rewind button, kind of like you use math and 604 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 4: a computer to backtrack what the Solar System was doing 605 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 4: millions and millions of years ago, and you're saying that 606 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 4: it doesn't make sense or what it. 607 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: Actually usually works in the forward direction, like you start 608 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: from the Protosolar System and try to evolve forward and 609 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: see if it matches what we see today. Conceptually, it's 610 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: the same as backtracking, but the way the simulations actually 611 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 2: work is forwards. You know, we model physics equations forwards 612 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: in time, and we try to see if we can 613 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: get to the current Solar System and explain everything we see. 614 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: And what we find is that doesn't really work without 615 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 2: another planet. 616 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 4: But are there like a million things that could have 617 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 4: happened in between absolutely, how do you make it match 618 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: what we have now? Like, what do you start with 619 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 4: and if you can make it match, how do you 620 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 4: know it's not just you're making an error. 621 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's not definitive, right, it's statistical. It's totally possible 622 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: that our solar system could have arisen without another planet, 623 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: but it's just a question of what's more likely. Like, 624 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: when you run the simulations of our solar system, how 625 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: many times do you get to something like what we 626 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 2: have now with a lost planet and without a lost planet? 627 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: And so is it just easier to make this arrangement 628 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: with a lost planet or without. It's totally possible to 629 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: do it without, but it's just less likely. It happens 630 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: in fewer of those simulations. 631 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 4: And by like what we have now, you don't mean 632 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 4: like exactly what we have now, just kind of like 633 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 4: sort of like what we have now. 634 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: If you run enough simulations, you can get essentially a 635 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 2: sense for what's more likely and what's less likely under 636 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: various hypotheses. And if you have another planet in your system, 637 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: then you get more simulations that are similar to ours. Yeah, 638 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: so more like probability gets clustered in the kind of 639 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: arrangement that we have now. And the cool thing about 640 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: that is that it tells the story. You can look 641 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: at those simulations and you can see, oh, what happened 642 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: in the inner what happened in the early days of 643 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: the Solar System? How did this happen? 644 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 4: Okay, So then scientists have been running these simulations and 645 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 4: it's kind of hard to get what we have now 646 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 4: without some mystery planet that moved away from the Solar System. 647 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 4: How did scientists think that happen? 648 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: So the original models, called the NIE model, basically blames 649 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: it on the Kuiper Belt. So in the original Solar system, 650 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 2: you have Jupiter, Saturn, Urinus, Neptune, all formed in very nice, 651 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: neat circular orbits like we talked about, and fairly closely 652 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: spaced to each other. But then you have these planetismals 653 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: out in the Kuiper Belt that haven't formed into planets, 654 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: but they're tugging on Neptune, they're tugging on Urinus, they're 655 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: tugging on Saturn, and they get pulled into the inner 656 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: Solar System. And when that happens, these big planets get 657 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 2: pushed out a little bit, and then the planetismal falls 658 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: further into the Solar System until it reaches Jupiter, and 659 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: then Jupiter actually pushes it back out and Jupiter gets 660 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 2: pushed in the effect of these little planetismals, these little 661 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: tugs is to pull out Neptune Saturn uriness and to 662 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: push Jupiter in a little bit. So they're disturbing the 663 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: Solar System. And you might think, well, what can one 664 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: little rock do? And the key is that there's lots 665 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: of these rocks, and so over time this can really 666 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 2: have an effect on the orbit of the. 667 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: Planets because we know that at around that space, that 668 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 4: ring of the Solar System, you had a lot of 669 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 4: big rocks, and maybe you have a lot of big 670 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 4: rocks right now exactly. 671 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 2: The Kuiper Belt is huge. There could be like trillions 672 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: of objects out there. We think today it's the source 673 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: of comets that fall into the Solar System, the short 674 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: period comets. There's an even bigger blob of stuff out 675 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: in the Oort Cloud, which might be the source of 676 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: long term comments. But it's an enormous, massive stuff out there, 677 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 2: and each of those little bits, as they interact with 678 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: the Solar System can give a little tug. You have 679 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: these nice circular orbits that were formed initially, but now 680 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: they're getting perturbed by these tugs from all these rocks 681 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: in the Kuiper Belt. 682 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 4: Mmm, okay, so scientists think that maybe these rocks from 683 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 4: the Kuyper built maybe cause some planet that we had 684 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 4: before to exit the Solar System. 685 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 2: Well, essentially leads to instability because you're pushing Jupiter in, 686 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: you're pushing Neptune, Saturn, Urinus out, and then those planets 687 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: start to interact like they used to be in a nice, 688 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: happy orbit, but now you get instabilities and resonances from 689 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: those planets themselves. Jupiter starts to drift inwards, and then 690 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: Saturn pulls on Jupiter, and Jupiter pulls on Saturn. You 691 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: start to get regular orbits, and Saturn actually pulling on 692 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: Jupiter is what saves it. Saturn pulls on Jupiter and 693 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 2: changes its direction so it migrates back out away from 694 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: the Sun. Without Saturn there, it might have been that 695 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 2: Jupiter would are just like plummeted into the Sun thanks 696 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: to the influence of the Kyper Belt. 697 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 4: You know, it all sounds kind of complicated, So I 698 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 4: wonder why do scientists think that making it more complicated 699 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 4: by adding another planet makes it easier to understand? Like 700 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 4: it's all really complex dynamics, right, Like, so then how 701 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 4: does adding another planet make it easier to predict, like, 702 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 4: what's the missing thing that we currently have that a 703 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 4: missing planet would help with. 704 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: Some of the features of our Solar system that we 705 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 2: see today are difficult to explain without adding another planet, 706 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, like the irregular orbits of Jupiter and Saturn. 707 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: They're not perfect circles. There are sort of ellipses. They 708 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: have like a five percent eccentricity, and there's this structure 709 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: in the material of the Kuiper Belt. A lot of 710 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: it seems to have been lost, and a lot of 711 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: the rest of it is in resonance with Neptune. And 712 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 2: these things aren't like smoking guns that say like, oh, look, 713 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: there has to be another planet here. But when you 714 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: run the simulations, you get these kind of features more 715 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: often when you add another planet. If you put another 716 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: ice giant in around the size of Neptune between Saturn 717 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 2: and Urinus, then the story you get when you run 718 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: these simulations more closely resembles the Solar system we have today. 719 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 4: And I guess scientists just throw this mystery planet in 720 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 4: and all kinds of velocities in all kinds of sizes, 721 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 4: and you sort of see overall like Hey, it does 722 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 4: kind of shape the Solar System more into what we 723 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 4: have now. 724 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Another way to say it is like they were 725 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: running the simulations with just the current planets and they 726 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 2: were noticing that they pretty rarely ended up describing the 727 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: situation that we see today, Like, it was very unlikely 728 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 2: to get Jupiter and Saturn to have these eccentricities, and 729 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: to have these asteroid belts along Jupiter's orbit, the Trojans 730 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 2: and the Greek camp of asteroid belts, those things were 731 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 2: pretty rare to get in a Solar system without this 732 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: additional planet. But when you put that new planet in, 733 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 2: it started to be less unlikely. It started to be like, oh, 734 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: this kind of thing happens pretty frequently, and so it's 735 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: just a question of like, how do you explain it. 736 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 2: It's not the only possible story, right, Maybe there are 737 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: two other planets. Maybe something else happened that could explain this, 738 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 2: but it does make the story more likely. 739 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 4: Maybe the planet had a big fight with Jupiter, stormed 740 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 4: out of the house with all their bags, left to 741 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 4: go live with their aunt or their niece. This is 742 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 4: the nice model, right. 743 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 2: This is the Niese model exactly. They went to live 744 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 2: with their aunt in France. 745 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 4: So then that's one model you're seeing. One model says, 746 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 4: and maybe it was all these big rocks from the 747 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 4: Kuiper Belt that maybe caused a lot of instability out 748 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 4: there in the icy planets, and then maybe it caused 749 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 4: a planet that we used to have to fly away exactly. 750 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 2: And one of the nice things about this model until 751 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: recently was that it lined up with other pieces of 752 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 2: evidence for when this instability happened. And in the nice model, 753 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 2: this happens like about a billion years after the Solar 754 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 2: System is formed, so you get like the ignition of 755 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 2: the Sun, you get the formation, and the gas planets 756 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 2: and the rocky planets. Things cycle around for a little while, 757 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: and it takes time for the Kuiper Belt to sort 758 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 2: of drive this because these are tiny little rocks. This 759 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: sort of lines up with another piece of evidence from 760 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 2: looking at our moon. Our moon is a great record 761 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 2: for impacts in the Solar System, like when rocks have 762 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 2: been raining down in the inner Solar System. And when 763 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 2: the astronauts in the Apollo mission went to the Moon, 764 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 2: they gathered a bunch of samples to study, like the 765 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 2: craters and the impacts to try to get a sense 766 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 2: for like, what is the history of the Solar System, 767 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: one of them been sort of more or less impacts 768 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: when it's been like bad weather and good weather. And 769 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: for a long time, there was this evidence for what 770 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: we call a late heavy bombardment, that there's this period 771 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: of billion years after the Solar system formed when a 772 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 2: lot of rocks were raining down in the inner Solar System, 773 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 2: and that kind of lines up with the story of 774 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 2: the nice model that like, all these rocks from the 775 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 2: Kuiper Belt were coming in and making trouble and maybe 776 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 2: also some of them were landing on the Moon. So 777 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 2: that was sort of a nice story for a while. 778 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 4: Meaning like there's a lot of activity from the Kuyper 779 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 4: Bell which may have contributed to us kicking out an 780 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 4: icy planet exactly. 781 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 2: And until a few years ago that all seemed to 782 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 2: kind of hang together. But then there was a reanalysis 783 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: of this data from the Moon and it turns out 784 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: that it may have been a mistake. 785 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 4: Well, we lost the theory the dog a theory. 786 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 2: It turns out of the way the astronauts gathered the data, 787 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 2: they may have basically only collected data from one big impact. 788 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 2: So what we thought was a bunch of impacts that 789 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 2: all happened at the same time, like three and a 790 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 2: half billion years ago, might have actually just been one 791 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: big impact that the astronauts gathered from. So it could 792 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 2: have been like essentially just a statistical anomaly in the 793 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 2: data that made it look like there was really bad 794 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 2: weather for like a few hundred million years three and 795 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: a half billion years ago, But it was really just 796 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 2: one bad day that the astronauts happened to collect data from. 797 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 4: Wait, what, so we didn't we just had one sample. 798 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 4: We didn't take some samples from all over the moon 799 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 4: or analyze the creds visually through telescopes, so. 800 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 2: We don't have samples from all over the moon. And 801 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: they definitely collected a bunch of samples from different locations, 802 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: and that's why they thought maybe this was like a 803 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 2: fair sample from everywhere on the Moon. But a reanalysis 804 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 2: of it suggests that a single impact site, Imbrium might 805 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 2: be responsible for basically all of the evidence that the 806 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 2: astronauts gathered. I don't know if the astronauts are being 807 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: lazy and not following instructions or if it was not 808 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 2: a well organized study, but more recent analysis suggests there 809 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 2: may have been no late heavy bombarkment. There may just 810 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 2: be like a gradual decline in the number of impacts 811 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: over time. 812 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 4: And so maybe this idea that kyper Berl maybe caused 813 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 4: us to lose an icy planet maybe didn't really happen, 814 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 4: or could it still have happened without this late heavy bombardment. 815 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: This really causes us to doubt that model. And there's 816 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 2: been another lingering problem with this Nie model that has 817 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 2: never really been answered, which is why the terrestrial planets 818 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 2: kind of survived it. If you have these gas giants 819 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: doing this dance a billion years after the Solar System 820 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 2: is formed, when Earth and Mars are all already formed, 821 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: then how did the Earth and Mars and Venus survive 822 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: all these gravitational tugs. If Jupiter comes into the inner 823 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 2: Solar System basically turns around at the asteroid belt, how 824 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 2: does Mars stay in orbit? How does Earth stay where 825 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 2: it is? So one concerned about the Nice model has 826 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: always been how did the terrestrial planets not get disrupted 827 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: by the giants. So now there's a news story about 828 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: when this instability happened and what the cause was that 829 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 2: doesn't rely on this late heavy bombardment and places the 830 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 2: blame on the instabilities somewhere else. 831 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 4: But I guess why do we assume that there was 832 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 4: an instability because we think that maybe we did lose 833 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 4: a planet. 834 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 2: Because we can't explain the orbits and the eccentricities and 835 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 2: the structure of the Kuiper Belt without some kind of 836 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 2: motion of these planets. We know the planets moved around, 837 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 2: we know there was interaction. We know that they did 838 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 2: not form in the order that we see them today. 839 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 4: All right, So then what's this new model? Not so nice, 840 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 4: the less nice model exactly, not the nice model, the 841 00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 4: nephew model. 842 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 2: The nibbling model. So this model is called the rebound model, 843 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 2: and it suggests that this instability happened much much earlier, 844 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 2: actually while the rocky planets were forming, or maybe even 845 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 2: before they formed, that it was basically an early instability. 846 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 4: Well, that's a big difference in timescale. But don't your 847 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 4: simulations as the Solar system sort of help you pinpoint 848 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 4: when it happened. 849 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: It turns out that the simulation is can of commemon 850 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: to either an early instability or a later instability like 851 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 2: the instability for in the Nice model, like a billion 852 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 2: years after the formation of the Solar system can explain 853 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 2: the orbits that we got if there, in fact was 854 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 2: a bunch of interactions from the Kuiper Belt. But you 855 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 2: could also have an instability much earlier on that could 856 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 2: reproduce the orbits and the eccentricities that we see today. 857 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 4: All right, so then what does this model say? What 858 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 4: happened according to this model? 859 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: So this is called the rebound model, and essentially the 860 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 2: instability trigger here. The thing that kicked off all this 861 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 2: bouncing around was the interaction of the planets with this gas. 862 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 2: Imagine the formation of the Solar System, as we talked 863 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 2: about earlier. You have these planets forming and they're pulling 864 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 2: their stuff together, but you still have something of a 865 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 2: protoplanetary disk. You still have a bunch of gas sort 866 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 2: of in between the planets. Now we don't have that today, 867 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 2: and the reason is that the Sun has effectively blown 868 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 2: all that out. As the Sun triggered and the ignited 869 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 2: and its radiation grew and grew, it blew out all 870 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 2: that gas from the Solar System. So in the first 871 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 2: ten million years or so, that gas disc is sort 872 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 2: of moving out through the Solar System and it affects 873 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,720 Speaker 2: the orbits of those planets. If the planets are passing 874 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 2: through the gas, it slows them down, and if that 875 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 2: gas is getting pushed out by the star, it actually 876 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 2: carries those planets with them a little bit. So as 877 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 2: this gas disc is getting pushed out of the Solar System, 878 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 2: it passes through all of these orbits and it gives 879 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: them all a little tweak. So this rebound model suggests 880 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 2: that the interaction of the planets with this gas disc 881 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 2: as it's getting blown out of the Solar System can 882 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 2: trigger these same instabilities and can explain all the features 883 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 2: we see in the Solar System today. 884 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 4: But couldn't you kind of make the same argument as 885 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 4: before with the other model, like Wooden huck, How is 886 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 4: it then that we'd the Earth and Mars and Venus 887 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 4: have such a nice even orbits if we were disturbed 888 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 4: and blown out. 889 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. It's because this happened much earlier, and 890 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,439 Speaker 2: so essentially this happened before those terrestrial planets even form 891 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 2: the terrestrial planets we think formed after the gas giants come. 892 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 2: The gas giants have a lot of advantages over the 893 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 2: rocky planets in the inner Solar systems. Number One, there's 894 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 2: ice out there, which is like a solid that can 895 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 2: help seed the formation of planets to there's a lot 896 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 2: more gas out there because the Sun hasn't gobbled it 897 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 2: up and you don't have this proto star messing everything 898 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 2: up and heating things. So it's much colder, which makes 899 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 2: it easier for gravity to pull things together. So the 900 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: outer Solar System is a much easier place to form planets. 901 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 2: So we think the gas planets formed before the gas 902 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 2: disc actually evaporated, sometimes in like the two to ten 903 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: million year range, But rocky planets take longer because the 904 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 2: inner Solar System is much hotter and messier, is less 905 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 2: gas available to form planets and no ice whatsoever, So 906 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: those take like thirty to one hundred million years to form. 907 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 4: Okay, So I think what you're saying is that this 908 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 4: new model, this rebound model, is saying that we kicked 909 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 4: off a gassy icy planet a long time ago, before 910 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 4: we even had Earth and Venus and Mars and the 911 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 4: rocky planets inside, and that it was due to a 912 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 4: lot of this gas being blown out of the center. 913 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 2: Exactly, and as the sort of inner radius of that 914 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 2: gas passes through these early ice giants and gas planets, 915 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 2: it triggered that instability, They did their crazy dance with 916 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 2: Jupiter moving in and the other planets moving out, and 917 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 2: ejected an ice giant planet that left the Solar System. 918 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 2: And all that happened even before the Earth and Mars 919 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 2: were formed, so they didn't mess up the formation of 920 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 2: the Earth and Mars because it was already done by then. 921 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 4: All right, well, those are both great stories. Now the 922 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 4: question is can we see the planet that we kicked out? 923 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 4: Are there lonely dejected planets floating out there in space 924 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 4: that we can see and maybe identify and track to 925 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 4: perhaps our Solar System? So let's stick into that. But first, 926 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 4: let's take another quick break. 927 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 2: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth 928 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 2: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably 929 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 2: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite. 930 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 2: But the people in the dairy industry are US. 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How is US Dairy tackling greenhouse gases? 938 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 2: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from 939 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 2: maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and 940 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 2: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice 941 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 2: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that 942 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 2: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the 943 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 2: latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense dairy 944 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 2: products we love with less of an impact. 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Visit the Explorer Card 972 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 5: dot com to apply today. Cards issued by JP Morgan 973 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 5: Chase Bank NA Member FDIC subject to credit approval offer 974 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 5: subject to change. 975 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 2: Terms apply. 976 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,760 Speaker 4: All right, we're asking the question, did our Solar system 977 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 4: lose a planet or I guess shepherd it out peacefully 978 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 4: into the cosmos. 979 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 2: That's the NIS model. If anything happened, it sounds like 980 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 2: we can blame it on the gas giants. Like we 981 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 2: weren't even around when all of this went down. It 982 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 2: is just the drama we heard about when we showed up. 983 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 4: Oh I see, it's like, yeah, it's like you're the 984 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 4: younger sibling and there's all this draft before you were even. 985 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 2: Born exactly, Like why is everybody so mad? And who 986 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 2: is this missing sibling everybody's talking about you never met? 987 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,399 Speaker 4: Oh wow, this is just got This is just turn 988 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,839 Speaker 4: into a Korean drama. I feel like, super complicated. 989 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 2: But it is sort of the story. I mean, what 990 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 2: we learn from this is that these unstable giant planets, 991 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 2: the ice giants and the gas giants, basically sculpted the 992 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 2: inner Solar System. I mean it didn't disrupt the already 993 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 2: formed Earth in Mars and Venus, but it created the 994 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 2: gravitational context for them to form and probably changed how 995 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 2: they did form. The way younger siblings arrive and family 996 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 2: dramas that have existed for years. 997 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 4: But again, I guess these are this is just kind 998 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 4: of a model, right, or sort of a guess to 999 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 4: maybe explain some of what we see. We don't quite 1000 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 4: know for sure. 1001 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 2: Right, We definitely don't know for sure. We've quibbled before 1002 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 2: about what a guess means. Scientifically. I think we have 1003 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,439 Speaker 2: a model, we have some evidence for it, We're never 1004 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 2: exactly sure. I mean, we have not like identified a 1005 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 2: planet and said that's our lost planet. It's just easier 1006 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 2: to ex lane what we see in the universe when 1007 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 2: you add this to the story. But that happens for 1008 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,760 Speaker 2: lots of things, Like we don't witness the early years 1009 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 2: of the Earth's formation, but we have a pretty detailed 1010 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 2: story about the formation of the Earth based on the 1011 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,280 Speaker 2: patterns of evidence that we see in the rocks beneath 1012 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 2: our feet. And so that's a big part of science, 1013 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 2: is developing a story to explain the data, even if 1014 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 2: you don't directly witness all of those events, right, Right. 1015 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 4: But I guess what I'm trying to say is that 1016 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 4: we had a pretty good story that seemed to check 1017 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 4: out and make sense before, but then it turned out 1018 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,320 Speaker 4: to be not quite correct. 1019 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. These stories are always evolving in they're 1020 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 2: getting better. Like we like the nice model, but there 1021 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 2: were some dangling questions about how the Earth and Mars 1022 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 2: survived it, and now we like this new model, the 1023 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 2: rebound model. But there's always going to be dangling questions, 1024 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 2: and somebody's going to come along with a better model 1025 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 2: and maybe tell a different story in five years. It's 1026 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 2: a constantly evolving story. 1027 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 4: I guess. But I wonder if maybe like a smoking 1028 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 4: gun or something to definitely be able to say, like, hey, 1029 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 4: there used to be a planet here in the Solar 1030 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 4: System that we don't have anymore, is to actually maybe 1031 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,879 Speaker 4: see this planet that we kicked out or that left 1032 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 4: Liane its own out there in space. Isn't it possible 1033 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 4: that we could see a planet and track it to 1034 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,720 Speaker 4: our Solar system out there beyond our Solar System? 1035 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,640 Speaker 2: I suppose it's possible, but we're talking about events that 1036 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 2: happened four billion or more years ago, so that planet 1037 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 2: is pretty far gone by now. If it did leave, 1038 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,239 Speaker 2: we can do sort of more indirect discovery, so we 1039 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 2: can look out and say, are there any rogue planets? 1040 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 2: If this is happening in our Solar System, it should 1041 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 2: be happening in other solar systems. Shouldn't space be filled 1042 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 2: with these ejected ice giants when it happened in other families, 1043 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 2: not just ours? And we can go and look for those. 1044 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a whole episode on rogue planets. There 1045 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,280 Speaker 4: might be a billion of them out. 1046 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,839 Speaker 2: There right exactly. We can actually spot some of these 1047 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 2: using what we call micro lensing. If one of these 1048 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 2: planets out there floating between stars, passes in front of 1049 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 2: a star, like a little eclipse, then it'll blink out 1050 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 2: and actually change the way that light bends around the planet. 1051 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 2: So we can use these micro lensing techniques to try 1052 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 2: to spot them. Have infrared telescopes like the Wise telescope 1053 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 2: that can try to directly image them. These planets don't 1054 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,719 Speaker 2: glow in the visible light, but they do have some temperature, 1055 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 2: and everything with the temperature glows in some frequency. These 1056 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 2: would low in infrared, and so it's possible to see them. 1057 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 2: So we have seen a bunch of these rogue planets, 1058 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 2: and so we can estimate that there's like one of 1059 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 2: these things for every star in the galaxy. 1060 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, there's a one hundred billion of them 1061 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 4: right in our galaxy. 1062 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 2: Exactly, and we've only spotted a few of them, and 1063 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 2: so the calculation of like how many there are is 1064 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 2: very uncertain. There's a huge extrapolation there, which means a 1065 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,320 Speaker 2: huge uncertainty, but we know it's a pretty big number. 1066 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 2: We know it's not just like ten in the galaxy. 1067 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 2: There's lots of these things out there, and that leads 1068 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,399 Speaker 2: credence to this story that, like when solar systems form, 1069 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 2: there's a period of instability when big planets can get 1070 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 2: thrown out. 1071 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 4: So we've actually seen these, like if you look at 1072 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,279 Speaker 4: a picture of the Nice Skuy in the infrared, you 1073 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 4: can see these thoughts moving across the sky. 1074 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 2: We can actually see these planets, and we have seen 1075 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 2: with direct imaging some of these rogue planets. Again, not 1076 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 2: very many, and so we're extrapolating from a handful up 1077 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 2: to a big number. We've definitely seen non zero and 1078 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 2: very recently James Webb saw some really crazy stuff out there. 1079 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,840 Speaker 2: They found these Jupiter mass binary objects. They call them jumbos. 1080 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 2: These are pairs of planets floating out there in the 1081 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 2: galaxy with no star nearby. 1082 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 4: Wait what, well, first of all, James Webb, do you 1083 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 4: mean the telescope. Right, Yes, not James web from Erie, Pennsylvania. 1084 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,879 Speaker 2: We did not exhume the previous NASA administrator and asked 1085 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 2: him to look at the night sky and then write 1086 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 2: down with what he said. Though that would make a 1087 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 2: pretty cool graphic novel. 1088 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 6: Yeah. 1089 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I just don't want to assume everyone knows 1090 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 4: what James Webb is. 1091 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 2: No, you're exactly right. The James web Space telescope a 1092 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 2: very powerful device that we launched a couple of years 1093 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 2: ago and is an infrared telescope capable of seeing things 1094 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 2: that are pretty cold. Spotted forty two pairs of jumbos. 1095 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 4: WHOA and so is there? Is it weird that they're 1096 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 4: in pairs? Or does it feel normal that they're in pairs? 1097 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 4: Meaning does that mean that they were ejective from Solar 1098 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 4: system in pairs like they left together. 1099 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,359 Speaker 2: It's a great question. We don't know the answer to that. 1100 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 2: Simulations suggest that it's unlikely for big planets to leave 1101 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 2: the Solar System together, right. They would have to be 1102 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 2: like bound together and then leave together, which means that 1103 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,880 Speaker 2: their fragile orbits around each other would have survived very 1104 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 2: chaotic period. Seems very unlikely. So these are rogue planets 1105 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 2: that are out there without their star, but they don't 1106 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,719 Speaker 2: seem to have been ejected from solar systems. So it 1107 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,919 Speaker 2: just sort of like adds to the murkiness of what's 1108 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 2: going on with rogue planets. 1109 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,000 Speaker 4: Whoa wait, wait, so maybe they were ejected and then 1110 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,760 Speaker 4: they met up with another jumbo out there in space. 1111 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 2: We actually don't have a great story to explain how 1112 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 2: these even exist like that seems very unlikely for all 1113 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 2: these jupiters to like start dancing around each other just 1114 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:47,800 Speaker 2: in space. 1115 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,520 Speaker 4: Well, maybe they have like a planet dating app or something. 1116 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,720 Speaker 2: Maybe they're speed dating there, or they're square dancing or something. 1117 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 2: They're all changing partners. 1118 00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 4: That's right, they have a jumpler on their phones. 1119 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,840 Speaker 2: Some people suggested maybe they just formed independently, like you 1120 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 2: had a solar system and it didn't have enough stuff 1121 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,240 Speaker 2: to actually have a star. You just got a couple 1122 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 2: of Jupiter's. But we think that there's like a minimum 1123 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 2: amount of mass you need to get like your own 1124 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 2: solar system, otherwise you just get slurped up in like 1125 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,200 Speaker 2: a neighboring solar system. When that huge stellar nurseries breaking 1126 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,839 Speaker 2: up into chunks that form solar systems, So we think 1127 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 2: that these things are probably too small to like have 1128 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,920 Speaker 2: seated their own structure and be their own solar system. 1129 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,319 Speaker 2: We don't think they can have been ejected from other 1130 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,959 Speaker 2: solar systems. So it's something of a question of where 1131 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,840 Speaker 2: these came from, you know, just to paint the picture 1132 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 2: that like, there's a lot we still don't know. There's 1133 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 2: a lot of guessing going on. 1134 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 4: But I guess if they didn't come from a solar system, 1135 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 4: then that doesn't really tell us anything about this idea 1136 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,200 Speaker 4: of how often solar systems kick out planets exactly. 1137 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 2: But it adds doubt to the argument that because we 1138 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,800 Speaker 2: see a bunch of rogue planets out there that suggest 1139 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 2: that planets are lost from solar systems, because there are 1140 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 2: planets out there whose formations we just don't understand and 1141 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 2: we think don't come from having been lost by a 1142 00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 2: solar system. 1143 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 4: Right, Well, I guess to answer the question of the episode, 1144 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 4: has our solar system lost any planets? The answer is maybe, 1145 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,359 Speaker 4: we guess. So we guess. Maybe we used to have 1146 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,960 Speaker 4: a brother, an older brother, but now nobody likes to 1147 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,800 Speaker 4: talk about him or her, and it's very awkward. It 1148 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,920 Speaker 4: makes all the models break all the pets are uncomfortable. 1149 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 2: Almost all of the models we use to explain the 1150 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,320 Speaker 2: Solar System do have an additional planet. It's not absolutely required. 1151 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 2: It's possible to explain the Solar System without an additional 1152 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,600 Speaker 2: planet that got ejected during one of these early instabilities. 1153 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,400 Speaker 2: But it just makes the story come together more crisply. 1154 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,800 Speaker 2: It makes our Solar System seem less unlikely. 1155 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 4: Now, how does this matchup with I know there are 1156 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 4: scientists that think that we have maybe a ninth planet 1157 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,880 Speaker 4: in our Solar sysm we just can't see it planet 1158 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:48,359 Speaker 4: X right. 1159 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some people who look at like gravitational 1160 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 2: aberrations in the orbits of our planet to see if 1161 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,000 Speaker 2: there's something else out there tugging on it. But there's 1162 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,720 Speaker 2: no conclusive evidence for that. It's like very very gentle, 1163 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,160 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of disagree about whether it's just 1164 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,040 Speaker 2: noise or has other explanations. 1165 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,400 Speaker 4: It's almost sort of the same, right, the use simulations 1166 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,880 Speaker 4: and try to figure out what would best explain what 1167 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:08,399 Speaker 4: we have now. 1168 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but the data there are not conclusive. 1169 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 4: All right. Well, another interesting lesson to keep track of 1170 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,919 Speaker 4: your planets. Don't lose them, because once they're gone, They're 1171 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 4: gone forever. 1172 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,799 Speaker 2: And try to understand where you came from and what 1173 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 2: your context is, what happened before you showed up on 1174 00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:23,320 Speaker 2: the scene. 1175 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, not that we have much influence over what happens, 1176 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,120 Speaker 4: but it's interesting to think about what might happen in 1177 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,399 Speaker 4: the future, Like, is it possible that the Earth might 1178 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,320 Speaker 4: get kicked out of the Solar System right. 1179 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,640 Speaker 2: In the future exactly? And the difference between these models 1180 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,279 Speaker 2: tells a very different story. If it really is lots 1181 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 2: of gentle tugs from Planetesimals, well, that could still happen 1182 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 2: in the future. We have the Orc Cloud, we have 1183 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 2: the Kuyper Belt. There's still tugging going on. But if 1184 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,520 Speaker 2: it was something that only happened in the very early 1185 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 2: formation of the Solar System itself, as this gas was 1186 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,400 Speaker 2: pushed out, that's not something that's likely to be reproduced, 1187 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,839 Speaker 2: and so that level of instability is probably not going 1188 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 2: to happen again. 1189 00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 4: Now, Daniel, if we did have an icy gas planet 1190 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,200 Speaker 4: but it was filled with white chocolate, are you happy 1191 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 4: that it's gone or are you sad that we don't 1192 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:06,080 Speaker 4: have it anymore? 1193 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 2: No, it's bittersweet. I wish it's the best. 1194 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,399 Speaker 4: No, it's not bitter, it's sweet. It's white chocolate. That's 1195 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 4: the whole point of white chocolate. 1196 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 2: It's oversweetened. That's the problem. 1197 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,879 Speaker 4: But maybe it'd be good for you because it would 1198 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,360 Speaker 4: make all the white chocolate lovers go to this planet 1199 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:20,960 Speaker 4: and leave ours exactly. 1200 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 2: Let's arrange transit to the frozen planet of white chocolate. 1201 00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:31,160 Speaker 4: Well, call it white sun, no son of mine. All right, Well, 1202 00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,359 Speaker 4: we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See 1203 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:34,919 Speaker 4: you next time. 1204 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,280 Speaker 2: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social 1205 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,320 Speaker 2: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Instant, 1206 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,840 Speaker 2: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel 1207 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 2: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production iHeartRadio. For 1208 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts 1209 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,240 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 1210 00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,120 Speaker 1: Have you boosted your business with Lenovo Pro yet? 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