WEBVTT - Ep. 10: Aron Snyder 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:06.400 Hey, everybody, welcome episode number ten of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.760 I'm Bet O'Brien. Today we're joined by none other than 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:15.960 Aaron Snyder. Aaron is the dude, the man. I think 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.560 he's the president of CEO. He just is the guy 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:25.400 at Kafaro Packs. Um, he's also the host of the 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.720 Kafar To Cast and a bunch of other great things 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.360 for that company. But moreover, man, he's just a back 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:36.000 country badass. I could talk to him all day about 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.760 his strategies for hunting in the back country, living out 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.360 of a pack for weeks on end, for months on end. Uh, 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.400 You'll hear and talk a lot about his advice and 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.560 tips in that area. Man, He's got a lot to say, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:53.720 and hopefully, UM, this podcast will start a larger conversation 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.600 with him because I think he's a wealth of information 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.480 about how to succeed in the back country. But we 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.959 also because I oh Aaron such an honest guy. He's 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.440 got a reputation in the hunting world as an honest 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:10.600 guy and straightforward dude, no bullshit that he would He 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.000 would shoot us straight on a lot of tougher issues 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.640 we've been talking about within the hunting industry, So I 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.039 was glad to talk with him about gripping grins and 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:26.720 social media and non hunters, anti hunters and everything in between. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:28.440 I think it was a great conversation with a really 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.880 honest guy. You're gonna you're a lot more cursing than 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.480 you normally do in this thing because it was a 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.120 great conversation. We were flowing and he likes to let 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:44.760 it fly. So without further ado, here's Mr Aaron Snyder, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:50.080 a certified back country badass hunter and a good guy. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:02:04.240 Episode number ten. Enjoy Aaron, what's going on? Man? Grabbing 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.320 me on? How about you? Oh? Just uh, just getting ready, 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.600 get done chasing turks, check myself for ticks, trying to 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.280 make sure the defeat wasn't more than the actual the 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:21.600 hunting portion. Yeah, yeah, we Texas Rios are normally not 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.560 the smartest turkey, but in the case of this last 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.600 couple of days, um, they I either got a lot 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.560 more dumb or they got a lot smarter. I'm not 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.400 sure which. Yeah, where are you at down there? So 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.040 we've got yet He has a ranch um down almost 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.160 on the border near town called the Eagle Pass, so 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:43.000 we're stones throw from the um Mexican border there. So 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:44.679 we were all the way down south for a couple 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.640 of days and I up here close to Austin, Texas 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.079 a couple of days and uh, crappy weather, bad situations. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.080 Usually what was usually is a pretty easy run for 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.720 turkeys was was came up nothing. Oh yeah, that's because 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.960 I've never I have one. Hunted Texas a little bit, um, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.320 not a whole lot. Just um my ex wife actually 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.400 lived down there, so um when we were together. They 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.480 have a branch in the hill country. So I hunted 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.800 out a little bit, but not a whole whole lot. Yeah, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.079 I mean, it's one of the good things about living 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.520 in Texas. Hunting wise, there's very few good things. But 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.560 one of the good things is is turkeys. You can 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.679 shoot four with a resident license, and most landowners could 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:30.000 give two ships about turkeys. So more access and good 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.880 amount of tags. Other than being able to hunt exotics, 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:34.800 that's about really the only good thing I found about 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.320 hunting in this state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely so 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.640 tell me, like we were just talking before we went 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.720 live here about my podcasting technical difficulty because I'm just 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.200 one guy here h sitting at a table. You've been 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.160 podcasting for quite a while. I mean, how have you 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.120 seen the medium change and and how's it changed your career? 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.920 And yeah, I've been interested to talk to you just 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.720 about podcasting in general and what you've seen over the 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.440 years that you've been doing in it. Oh, I mean 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.880 I really just I started with Brian. Bryan has taded 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.800 me on as it as a guest and on a 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.480 podcast a couple of years ago and took well three 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.680 years ago. I guessed with the Gritty Bowman and I'm 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.880 kind of introverted to begin with. And he got like 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.039 right up in my gril bugging me about it, like, yeah, 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.000 let's do it, you know, and and um, not that 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.520 I hadn't. There's people that knew who I was, but 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.960 I hadn't really you know. I just I didn't really 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.240 make myself, you know, known to the public or whatever. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.360 And um, and it turns out a lot of people 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.880 I was an asshole, which was good I got on 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.440 the podcast. If people may still think that, but they 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.280 at least they think I'm a funny one now. Um. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.560 And so you know, Brian was one of the first 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.280 and uh, the Gritty Bowmen or whatever, and it's uh, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.680 I had a few people tell me, like, you know, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.800 kind of predict the future of there'll be hundreds of 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.800 them in no time and and wow, um there are 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.400 a lot of podcasts now, some of them really good 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.080 and some of them probably should just stop doing podcasts. 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.560 But you know, it's it's definitely as far as for me, Um, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.720 since I don't like being in public so much, like 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:14.719 I don't really like going to shows or whatever, it's 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.960 definitely let people get to know me a lot more 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.640 and and get a little bit more well known. Um, 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:23.440 just you know, as far as how I am and 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.320 how I hunt and you know, normal stuff like that. Yeah, 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.799 I mean people are in your You're in people's ears, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.000 and it's a it's a pretty passive way to to 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:33.800 take in media. I mean TV you kind of have 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.040 to be plugged in and looking at a screen this thing. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.919 They can just kind of just in their ears. And 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.240 I don't know what that is about about podcasting that 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.039 brings them a little closer to you. So I'm sure 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.320 in your case, I mean, you know, I'm I have 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:47.960 to go to shows. I don't know if you'd call 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:49.520 me a show person or not. I think I do 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.240 all right with the talking and the answering the same 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.599 question a hundred times and and all that, but uh, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.880 I prefer this kind of conversation. Well, I dropped f 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.640 bombs like a comma. That's another problem. So I gotta 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.400 early watch that. And uh, I mean, we we have 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:11.400 a podcast where I started my own podcast, Frank and 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:16.240 I UM, which is definitely explicit compared to where Brian 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.160 had to do a lot of bleeping. Um. What's I 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:19.920 try to be as good as I can on head 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.200 um and I'll try not to drop any bomb. Please 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.679 do bring him bring him on. I could care less. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.000 I could care less. Anybody that knows me knows I'm m. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.360 I don't drop him every column, but just about every 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.919 other comma. Well, I just like Rogan will text me. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.440 He's like, dude, I'm so f and happy that you 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.479 f and cuss. I can't handle beats and uh, you 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.400 know for Frank and I. I mean, that's one thing 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.719 I've never I mean, right since I was fourteen, I 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.240 haven't changed much. Right, I'm the saying what might have 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.960 grown up a little, but um, you know, And and 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.400 that's one thing I think that people responded really well. 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.040 The Kafaro cast is the you know, the I mean 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.960 it's raw, but it is what it is. It's what 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.720 we're doing and we don't, you know, really anything up. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.039 I've only got one email thus far asking me to 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.080 stop cussing, so and I've got a number of emails 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.840 from this podcast. I'll take that as a win. I'm 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:15.760 sure there's some people out there they don't fucking like it, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:22.440 but sorry, like that's do it for emphasis? Yeah, yeah, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.720 no kid. Well, I've been listening to a couple of 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.200 forecasts actually on the on the road trip back up 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.280 here from from Turkey Camp and enjoy I'd, like I said, 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.000 didn't enjoy the role on this and and I definitely 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.640 have been a following yours for a while. Um, especially 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.560 on the trade bow side of things. I've never I've 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.120 never made that jump. I'm still I've been shooting a 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.240 compound bow for most of my life, but i still 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.960 feel like I'm learning that thing. Um as as as 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.080 long as I've been doing it is that you feel 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:54.920 like that's a permanent thing with you. I'm gonna stay 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.000 with the trade bow, never jump back over to the wheels. Yeah, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.920 I don't think I will, even though I'm leaving a 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.800 shiploads of money on endorsement contracts. I don't not a 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.200 whole lot of Tragic Boat guys or companies are like, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.840 oh yeah, I will pay you to shoot our boat. 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:08.360 So I kind of put myself on that one. But 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.920 I don't think i'll I'll go back. Um. I mean, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.000 I'll still do tuning and stuff and help guys out 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.600 on the podcast. But as far as you know shooting, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.840 I mean, we just shot a three D course tonight 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.040 before I got on the horn with you, and uh 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.000 I can. I will shoot until my fingers fall off 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.120 with a recurve um, I shoot a black widow p 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.200 s A and I just shoot teting lights out where 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.679 were the compound? I mean, it was just I mean, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.720 I've got a d D like a motherfucker anyway, So 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.120 it was like a struggle to get through twenty targets. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.480 And my fiance has even brought up She's like, I 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:50.280 have never seen you like this, just just infatuated with something. 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.240 So I can't say I'll never go back, but I 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.320 can say at this point in time that I don't 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.040 have any plans on back to the wheel though. What 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.080 is it about that that I mean I get, I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.880 get like that with a compound bow. I think I'd 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.600 get about that with any discipline like archery. Just I'll 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:06.959 be out in the yard and I want to shoot 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:08.839 ten airs and go have a beer and have dinner, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.160 and the next thing I know, I'm a hunter twenty 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.400 airs deep, my arms falling off. I mean, I get 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.360 that all the time. I think with me, I got 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.360 to get enough with the compound that there was not 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.280 a lot of a challenge. And uh, I mean I 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.719 have a one World championships or anything. I don't. I 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.800 haven't shot competitively in a while, but I can stand 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.360 side by side. It was just about anyone and not 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.640 embarrass myself, and especially when with hunting. And I think 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.400 it just got to a point where it was almost 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.840 such a given that UM with a compound for me 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.280 to to, you know, to kill an animal, the harvest animal. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.400 I just it's more exciting because you suck so bad 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.640 with the traditional bow. You gotta work so hard at it, um, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.640 you know. So I think that's part of it, that 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.719 it's just and for me, I'm a horrible trophy hunter, right, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.480 I'm more and for I like need, I like the hunt, 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.439 I like the camaraderie. I like to beat myself up. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.040 And so you know when you can drop bombs at 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.480 a hundred yards and shoot extremely effectively and then all 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.560 of a sudden a hundred yards like a par four 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.040 or five, it definitely changes the game. Yeah, what's your 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:17.079 how effective are you at the thirty yards? Say? Uh, oh, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.480 I wouldn't want me shooting it at me at fifty, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.560 but as far as in forties, my my max. You know, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.520 like like I certain situations or whatever, I would take 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.560 the forty yards shot. Um. I mean I can keep 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.720 them well with inside a paper plate, but um, you 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.920 know my goal is And I've shot a few animal 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.600 at a couple of animals now, uh, you know feet 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.600 away like chat a mule deer stucked in and press 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.439 shot at it a foot away maybe, um, And uh 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.880 I like that, you know, it's just it's just cool. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.600 And and uh I shot a real big buck with 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.040 Briant up in Alberta kind on another end right at 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.400 forty um. Uh. And Jeff Lander that there was the 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.720 outfitter anyway, And it's just a different intensity for me. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.840 And I'm on a journal and dunky junkie anyway, and 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:03.400 my heart rate doesn't go up a lot when I 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.719 shoot a compound in comparison, and uh, you know, I 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.079 sho had a freaking dough white tail and was ecstatic 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.400 down in Alabama. I took a fixture whether it was 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.240 my first white tale, and guys are like, man, I 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.600 can't believe he still shoot? Does you take a picture 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.360 with it? And I'm like, well, why wouldn't I. I mean, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.800 at one, it's not overly easy tipping over an animal 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.480 to begin with. Number two, with a recur it's even harder. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.520 And three, I mean it's a big deal for me. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.520 I'm glad I got one. And I end up shooting 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.600 a buck the next day or two days later. But 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.280 I guess everybody's got their own opinion of of of 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.920 a trophy. And at that point in time, that freaking 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.120 white tail dough was a trophy for me because I 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.760 see trop me like memorable, you know what I mean, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.079 I'm like, okay, I got one of it, so I 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.600 and I think too. I mean, um, you know, for me, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.200 I'm an odd duck. I'm I'm I'm I'm not in it. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.920 For I'm weird. Man, I've left I left in the field, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.800 you take the meat back, And I'm just one of 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.680 those odd guys that really UM am in it for 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.680 a lot of reasons that maybe other people might not 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.880 agree with. And and I say if they don't agree 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:19.080 with truthfully, I and Brian Cole will tell you Antler's 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.240 size does not make a ship a difference. To me, 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.400 if I had a choice to shoot a one sixty 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.720 five deer or something on the side of the road 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.680 or shoot a hundred and thirty eight miles in on 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.640 the stock, I'm gonna go eight miles in. And I'm 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.560 not saying that to pound my chest. I just like 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.880 backpack hunting, and I like that at picture. So I've 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.439 talked to I give Steve and Ella credit, but I 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.439 think Steve and all his brother Danny Danny or Matt, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.040 one of his two brothers, came up with this idea 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.800 of the purity score for hunting. Talked about that a lot. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.040 And I love that ship because you think about what 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.640 we're talking about this in Turkey Camp a couple of 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.280 days ago. I have my purity score nowadays is like 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.520 how I feel when I walk up on the animal, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.439 Like the moment that I walk up and realize it's 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.240 dead and I did what I came to do, Like 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.719 what do I feel like because if, for example, if 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.520 it's on the side of the road, or it's a 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.520 giant buck that I barely I got there on day one, 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.880 crawled up on it and shot at whatever range, it 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.000 doesn't feel the same as if you it's nine days 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.240 into a backpack hunt and you had to make some 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.400 ridiculous shot off a cliff and then scale down and 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.360 find the deer and pack it out like that, you don't. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.680 The purity score is just based on how you feel 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.520 when you walk up on the on the damn thing. 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.880 And I feel like that's that's one thing just from 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.000 following you on social I know we haven't met met 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.080 to this point, but I admire that because that's what 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.319 I get, that feeling with you, even though maybe it 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.600 hadn't heard some purity score, maybe you had, I don't know, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.800 but I get that feeling that that's what's important to you. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.000 It Yeah, it is, And I mean I've I've yeah, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.559 I've gotten pretty epic battles that almost have went to 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.800 fists about this, where some guys cracking on a guy 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.720 that shot his first animal, um, you know, and it 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.360 was a spike or a cow le could he's super 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.160 ecstatic and you know, you get some righteous dick ad 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.839 saying I would never shoot that, and it's like, oh, well, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.400 mommy and Daddy didn't hand him everything and give him. 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.120 I'm ranch in Montana to go hunt on this asso. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.480 I had to hike in and kill it himself. And 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.520 he's happy with it. So just the funk up. Let 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:17.080 him be happy. That made his life. And uh, and 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.600 I've been a pretty big advocate of that, and um, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.960 you know, go hunt for the right, go hunt it 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.360 for what makes you happy, and what what turns your 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.240 crank and if that may be making a self bow 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.680 and shooting a dought and well, theyr up some funk 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.280 on him and get out there like making. You know, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.160 we have problems in the industry now, and so I'll 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.760 try to join up and get along, you know. Yeah, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.520 I mean that's it's there's a bunch of things and 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.720 that I agree with the hunter percents, like you just 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.440 strip away. As long as if there wasn't social media, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.920 no one could see what you were up to, What 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.000 would you do what you could You would only do 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.800 what you thought brought you excitement and pleasures not the 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.120 right term, but but fulfillment from the hunt you know, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.640 you wouldn't do anything based on what anyone else thought 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.720 if no one could see what you were doing, and 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:06.080 there was no chance of that, so right, you know, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.560 social media think it has changed that. I would just say, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.080 you can definitely see on my social media page. I 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.160 don't give the ship. I did the exact same thing. Yeah, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.600 and I would do no matter, you know. And and 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.960 other people though it's like, oh, don't post that I missed, 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.600 Oh don't post this, I did that, or you know, 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.840 I mean, nothing worse than the guy posting the photo 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.920 of an animal and apologizing it wasn't big enough. I'm 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.640 just like, you know, I understand you wanted something bigger, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.640 totally understand. Maybe you let down a little bit, but 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.160 you did take the things fucking life right like you 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.200 chose to kill it. So don't apologize it wasn't big enough. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.640 Be proud of these shot or don't shoot? I mean, 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.720 but I didn't. I mean, I don't whatever, Well, what 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.440 kind of weird like it's just a value system thing, man, Like, 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.480 it's just a value system thing, like what what do 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.160 you value? You value like what people think about the 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.520 ends all or what you think about the ends? I 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.120 mean that's that's all it is. And if you if 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.200 you value what's on top of its head, you're never 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.840 gonna be happy because there's always a bigger animal out there. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.880 You're not gonna shoot the world record every time, and 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:16.040 you're never gonna quite get there's people perception of what's 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.200 on top of its head. If that, you're in gold, 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.000 and definitely in it for the wrong reasons. And I mean, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.360 I'm laughing at this because we Brian Gaul just sent 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.240 me the video of our moose hunt, and you talked 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:33.160 about that that scale, right, And when he shot his moose, 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.200 I had my bow in my hand and moose came 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:37.880 in and I'm like, he bline, I know him up, 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.880 but go ahead, you go ahead and shoot it with 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:41.160 the gun. I don't want. I don't want to shoot 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.760 it with a gun. And he shot at great moose, 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.520 you know. Fast forward, um six days of rain, snow 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.680 and misery, and had a big bullet five or stick 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.600 hunter yards away and we're looking at it, figuring in 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.280 a plan, and here comes at two points and I 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.320 looked at Devon and I it, hey, if that comes closer, 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.959 it's gonna die today. He was like hunt and I'm like, no, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.200 I'm not kidding. I'm like, I'm here because I want 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.040 the meat because the moose is really good. Better pray 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:13.920 that that thing doesn't come down to the river. I'm 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.280 gonna take it. And he still thought I was kidding, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.560 And Brian was like, it will be like stopping an 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.120 ocean wave. He will kill that thing if it comes down. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.439 He's gonna because I I we throw the trailer up 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.480 there to bring all the meat home. And so it's 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.560 pretty apparent on videos. That's the last thing that I'm 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.040 concerned with, uh, is the size of the rack. Now 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.720 Having said that, I'm not going to pass up hyder 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.199 Nad and steer to go shoot it go And I'm 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:47.680 not stupid, but I mean, I mean putting things into perspective. Definitely. Yeah. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.560 Well that's the first time. The first time Rogan I 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.480 went hunting that happened. He shot at two point moose, 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.920 and him and I we had been hunting. He was 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.960 just there for the meat and we had been hunting 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.639 for seven days in a rain. Shouldn't out or anything. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.560 He shot it and we celebrated like we both on 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.040 the Super Bowl. We were chest bumping and high five 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.080 and and spinning around the circles like idiots. I mean, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.000 that was it was. That was one of the best 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.720 kills of my life. Just watching him shoot a moose 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.359 basically on the side of the road with a rifle 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.919 and being more happy than anybody I've ever seen. It 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.040 just tells you a lot about what the hell your 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.040 mind can can be get wrapped around and when you're 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.199 out there just getting rid of the trophy aspect of 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.679 it of it. Yeah, yeah, no, for for sure. And 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:38.280 you know, I just, uh, I just did a podcast 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:44.320 with the guy um talking about trophy photos trophy hunting, 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.840 and you know, he kind of came off as an 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.040 asshole and his post on social media, so I kind 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.919 of wanted to bring them on and explain it. And 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.560 I'm like, I said, well, man, while you're preaching to 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.800 their own crowd, if you're posting on your own social 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.840 media page because you hunt lions and elephants and giraffes, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.000 kinds of ship like you hunt. And he he he 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.639 has said, yeah, like, you know, the trophy is up 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.320 to each person, and I don't bash anyone whatever that 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:15.199 trophy maybe to what it is to them. Um. You know, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.359 he was just talking about hiding behind and and this 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.600 actually popped up because the podcast you and Brian did 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.560 about hiding behind the word you know, trophy or trophy hunting. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.399 And you know, for me, I think the biggest issue 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.920 we have on a lot of this stuff is one 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.560 fighting in the inner ranks, and two context like tell 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.600 the story, like to tell what happened, you know, tell 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.159 tell people what it took. Like. That's one thing I 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.960 try to do with photography. It's for a non or 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.239 anti hunter watching what I post that might pop on 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:48.160 their Instagram page. I wanted to see something somewhat artistic 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.080 that tells a story, not just dead ship, right. I mean, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.919 I don't have any problem with that ship. Right. But 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.159 my my fiance was not an anti hunter, but I 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.879 would say neutral. Her mom definitely anti and she's eating 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.199 my moose tonight. Because I was able to explain it 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.120 in good context of how life works, how the circle 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.639 of life works must be weird. I think we do 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.840 a fucking horrible job as hunters at that sometimes, like 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.040 we just do a job at it. We can do 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.040 a lot better. We've done it. We've done a terrible 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.320 job at it. And I think that's part of we've 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.639 had a lot of great This podcast, as me, has 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.800 been like a Catharsis around that idea, because everybody I 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:30.639 talked to seems to have a different slant on it, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.560 but they all come to the same thing, like we 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.000 haven't shown the proper appreciation one. You can't do it 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.159 and just one post with some words underneath it. You 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.520 gotta do it consistently and tell your story. And if 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.200 those grip and grinds are important to you, well you've 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.760 got to understand who's going to see those group and grins. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.600 Like and I'm I'm a journalism major. I wasn't back 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.800 in college a long time ago, but um, the first 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.560 role of journalism was know your audience. And when you 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.359 put something on the internet, even if they're just to 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.439 your followers, you don't know where that thing is gonna go. 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.200 And just a photo of you and a dead critter 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.160 doesn't tell half the story, especially if you're smiling behind 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:08.600 and you wiped all the blood off and and put 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.760 fake eyes in or whatever people do when they when 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.600 they really glorify that troffy shots. It's like, you gotta 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.160 know who's gonna see it, um, before you can send 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.040 something like that. If you texted me a grip and 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.040 griend photo. I'd be like, badass, because I understand everything 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:24.959 about hunting and everything about what you're up to when 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.480 you took that thing. But if if I'm a non 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.840 hunter and I've never seen a troffy photo before you 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.639 send that to me, I might say fuck you um 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.720 and the same breath, and I can understand both reactions. Yeah, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.440 oh yeah. And I think that's where one thing I've 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.159 been talked about on one the other day that I 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.240 had done. And what it is so important is context, 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.120 telling the story and helping people understand because they think 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.560 it's important to understand be in goal right and and 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.639 that that their meat. They're not crying over burger at 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.280 the grocery store, Like I don't see anybody shedding a 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.680 cheer in the middle of King Stupers or Frek Myers 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.960 right now. He's dropping to it me thinking the burger, God, 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:05.920 they killed that. True, they just did it with the 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:11.240 pay check or or you know whatever. But people understanding like, hey, 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.800 you know that animal died to um, lived on a 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.199 farm with whatever in the cage um and kind of 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.479 explaining it on a parallel that it's not much different 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.960 than you know, obviously if they're totally you know, leg 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.160 in an anti a little bit different story, but explaining 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:30.879 how it happens and we're not just a bunch of 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.600 red deck shoot shoot out the window, um drinking deer right, like, 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.840 there's a lot more true than that. How would you 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.000 explain One thing I always get I try to ask 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:42.920 everybody for their opinion on this one is how do 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.359 you explain in the trophy shot? Right, I've taken them. 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.600 I'm sure you have to, mean, we all have. It's 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:49.879 just what hunters do at some level. How are you 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.240 explaining the smile to people? Why? People say, why are 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.040 you smiling? I mean, how do you explain that? Well, 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.200 I'm horrible about smiling, but pretty easy. I mean, if 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.320 you climbed to the top, he ever, is your probably 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.640 smiling under your mask? If you play, if you win 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.359 the NBA Championships, you're probably smiling. And the thing is 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.760 you're not smiling because the animals, because you killed the animal. 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.200 You're smiling at the all the hard work, the pain 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.800 and heartache and that you actually finally succeeded um and 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.160 you don't want to Also, if you frown and look 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:23.800 scowling and almost you're trying to look like this mercenary warrior. Um. 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.000 So you know that's a double edged sword. But it's 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.560 more for the hard work and effort you put in. 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:32.280 And even though you took a life or animals life, 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:34.440 you know you're proud of it. You want to show 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.480 other people. But it's not showing disrespect the animals, more 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.120 more showing like the happiness and the the end goal 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.359 that you you know that you actually performed that. Now 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.040 the other thing is you could just not take the photo, right, 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.000 I mean, there's there's that they're not taking show people. Um. 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.240 And that's one of the things where I really think 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.840 it's important to telling the story. Um, if you have 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.040 nothing but grip and great information, should look like some 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.879 you know, easy eskillery that only sh shoop for the 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.840 photos and the giant horns. But if you show you 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:09.080 know that eating the meat, cooking it, what it took 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.560 to get there, the working out, the shooting, all of 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.080 that stuff to where you can run that parallel and say, hey, 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.040 did you did you did you think anyone? Did you? 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.040 Did you feel remorse when you ate your turkey border tonight? Um? 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:24.879 You know, and kind of running in that parallel to 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:28.000 help him understand. I think, you know, the rick and 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:32.080 ran or the portion of it is is UM. It's 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.480 a fine line, but I think it's important to show 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.800 that you're proud of what you've done, but also not 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:40.919 show disrespect to the you know, to the animal, at 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.160 least on the public eye. I think on the other 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.840 end of it. You know, we talked about the trophy 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.440 photo a lot I've been seeing lately, And I don't 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:51.120 know if some people just wouldn't want to talk about 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:54.000 this or just would be a tough subject, but I 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.040 really don't don't care. I try to make sure we 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:58.399 talked about that kind of stuff here. This did the 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:03.400 overdymetization of hunting, like people that are taking these dramatic 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.640 photos that are contrived and try to make it look 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.760 harder than it is, or try to just contrive a 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.840 moment that they feel like a touch point. You see, 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:11.720 you feel like you're seeing that a lot. I feel 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:16.040 like in my circles, I've seen it a little bit more. Yeah, 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:17.679 that makes me want to smack the shoot out of it. 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:19.920 I mean, I mean, I don't have any problem if 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:25.040 you are one with UM religion and you're UM, you know, 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.160 all deer stuff. I mean, I think that's great. If 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:32.120 you're like super duper Christian. Um, why you would make 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.400 the animal go into full rig of mortis with its 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.359 wrap up so you can kneel down and pray for 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:39.360 it and in front of it for a photo. Yeah, 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:43.600 I get little irritated about that. I don't understand it myself, 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:45.880 and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:50.960 my own opinion, but I think that, um, some of 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:54.360 the over glorified photos that that I do see or 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:58.560 or a little much and uh and can be taken 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.639 in their own context. Um, I would agree, But I 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:03.320 mean it's coming from a guy that can barely read 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:08.200 and write. What I carry about fifteen pounds a camera 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.480 gear from the moment we leave until the moment we 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:14.119 get back, and I make sure and take a photo 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:18.080 of every part of that. And you know, a fraction 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.360 of the photos. Have a four thousand photos I'll take 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:24.000 on a seven to tend hunt, maybe fifty of them 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.520 are of the actual trophy at the end of the animal. Um. 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:29.679 And there's probably a hundred and fifty of us cutting 0:26:29.680 --> 0:26:32.439 it up. And there's probably another hundred and fifty of 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:34.400 us taking care of it and cooking it that night 0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:38.320 on a stick. Um, if you have three photos of 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:41.280 the hunt, thus photos of the trophy, and another three 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:44.360 getting it out, your priorities are probably pretty sucked up 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:46.879 in my opinion. Yeah, I've seen that if on a 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:49.680 few hunts that that I've been on. I mean, it's tough. 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.520 I'm the same as you, like I've I got called 0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:56.560 out pretty recently on a photo of one racist earlier 0:26:56.600 --> 0:27:00.240 this year. Um, on a photo of me. It was 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:03.840 a contrived photo of me walking up a cliff edge 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:08.119 in uh Northwest Territories, trying to look hardcore with this 0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:11.960 freaking caribou skull in my pack and nothing else in it. 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:13.919 And I had a buddy call me out on it, 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:16.200 and I'm so happy looking back on it. He just 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:18.920 kind of wrote the sarcastic like, real tough for O'Brien, Yeah, 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:21.359 it's real tough. I'm sure you spent a lot of 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.400 time climbing up that cliff. I was like, yeah, I've 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.159 spent no time climbing up that fucking cliff. I just 0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:28.760 kind of scurried up and somebody took a photo and 0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:31.960 I posted it and it was pretty disingenuous on my part, 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.320 and he called me out, and I'm glad he did. Um. 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:36.040 I don't know if you can always call people out 0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.159 in the moment like that without without it getting combative. 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:42.199 But at some level, if it's somebody you're close to 0:27:42.280 --> 0:27:45.440 and you see that, let him know that that maybe 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.040 that's not the best thing to do, and maybe you 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:49.800 can switch it up a little bit. So I'm definitely 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.639 guilty of that, ship, I really am. I've made some 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:56.280 minimies by saying for and I understand photo sheets. I 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:58.920 mean how I run you run YETI right? I mean, 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:01.920 you gotta to you. But you know, if you've got 0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:06.280 someone else's animal on your pack for a qualified photo, 0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:09.000 I get'll put you over that. But I mean having 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.119 you know said that. I mean I just posted a 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:15.119 photo not too long ago of this enormous seven against 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:19.119 wide moose on my pack. But I posted in the 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.119 story to say, hey, I only had to pack this 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:24.240 thing a couple of hundred yards to where we could 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.600 get the helicopter to land. I didn't carry it five miles. 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:30.399 I didn't, you know what I mean, Like we didn't. 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:32.800 And sure enough, as soon as we got the rack 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:35.200 on the guy's getting the camera and they said, we 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:36.880 got to take photos of this ship. No one's gonna 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.800 believe it because it was you know, two pound load. Um. 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:43.320 But you know, I mean, I there's times that for 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:45.520 correct lighting. I mean maybe not like an animal on 0:28:45.560 --> 0:28:48.800 the head. I'll recreate stuff and say, hey, quit moving, 0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:51.320 kneel down again. That was a great photo. I think 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.760 that's okay. I don't mind that. But you do see 0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.760 guys stuff a pack with sleeping bags to throw an 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:03.880 animal on the back of it, crooked gamo lines on 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.520 their face and ship for a better photo. Yeah, different 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:10.600 genuits would That would probably be an a dictionary right 0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:14.920 beside the definition. Um, you know, it's not really how 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:18.240 how life work when you're in the field. So yeah, 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:19.960 it's a it's a balance. So you said, you know 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.880 you're running Creferro you it's same with YETI. I mean, 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:24.400 we're trying to show off a product. We have to 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.960 contrive part of it. We have to. I mean, you 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:29.480 know at some level that's that's the way it's done. 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:31.800 It's the way you have to do it. But you 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:33.800 just I would say, you know, I don't want to 0:29:33.800 --> 0:29:36.720 go over this, this topic, all this entire podcast, But 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.920 I would just say that, you know, these conversations help 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.200 people think through a little bit and maybe think twice 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.920 when they're about to do something that for the wrong reasons. 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:47.960 And we were talking about early on in this podcast, 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:52.920 I think it was with Ronella about intrinsic motivation versus 0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:55.480 extrinsic motivation and like doing it because it makes you 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:56.960 feel a certain way of doing it because it makes 0:29:57.000 --> 0:29:59.360 other people feel a certain way. So I've since I 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:02.760 learned those fancy words, I've been thinking about that every 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:05.760 time I do something or post something or take a photo, 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.800 and it's helped the hell that'll I think what how 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:11.040 I feel about what's going out there in the world 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.640 based on this podcast or just me hunting or whatever 0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:19.080 whatever piece of contents out there. So hopefully these kind 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.600 of conversations and you know, you calling people out or 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:24.920 just tell them what the hell you think is that 0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:28.040 means something in the hunting community. I think I can't 0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:30.680 even get on a form anymore. A lot of social 0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.320 media pages because of all the bs and fighting that 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:35.640 goes on, and you know a lot of that is 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.560 just not you know, needed, And occasionally when I'll cast 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:43.160 somebody out, is um you know, if a guy says, hey, 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.640 I you know, my my packway to hundred and fifty 0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:48.400 pounds and I went X amount of or whatever, I'll 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:49.920 be like, hey, you know, I'm sending a message like, 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:53.200 hey's one, there's a there's a fine that amount of 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:55.280 people that can do that. I'm one of them. Um, 0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:57.800 I don't think you are. And so you need some 0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:00.440 context behind that before you get some you guys that 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:04.640 breaks this freakingneecap out because he saw you do it 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.400 or saw you say you did it. You know, I'll 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.880 call guys out on that kind of stuff too, or 0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:14.160 or just stuff that. I mean, does it hurt the industry, No, 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:16.400 But I mean there's times that you know, you might 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:18.560 want to throw your two cents in. But in general, 0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.720 some of the in fighting is just we have so 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.560 many problems with the antis right now. I mean, we're 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.640 our own worst enemy, whether it be compounds, shipping on 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:30.959 trad guys, trad guys making fun of compound dudes, rifle hunters, 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:34.240 you know, getting made fun of my compound guys. It's like, yeah, 0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:35.960 we're kind of all in this together and we're doing 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.600 a real shitty job of getting along. Yeah, why do 0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:41.440 you think that is why. I remember coming in the 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:44.200 industry almost immediately kind of getting in some of these 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.160 circles where you're talking to hunters all the time, and 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:49.280 one of the first things I remember thinking is, man, 0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:52.480 they fight. We fight a lot about the silliest little things. 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:55.120 Why why the hell is that? I mean human nature 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:58.720 and tiny penises? Man? I mean you think about it like, 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.280 I mean, if, I mean truly, like if you if 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:06.840 you really think about the motive. Um, I've heard. I mean, 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:08.760 if if you're a guy that only wants to shoot 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:11.840 four haired and shell, but you show appreciation to a 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:14.760 guy that shoots a five by five, there's no issue 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:18.680 with either one. But if you're a guy that hops 0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:21.760 on and says, let's say right now, I'm su recurve, right, 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:25.200 you're a rightful guy. Um. I can think one guy specifically, 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:28.080 I won't mention his name, who basically was like, yeah, 0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:30.360 I think all recurve hunters are stupid. Why don't you 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:34.800 go out and shoot another four good horn or whatever? Well? 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.479 I mean, okay, is he threatened? Is he? I mean? 0:32:38.520 --> 0:32:41.400 Why would he even say that? If not hurting? You 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:46.480 know him or you see guys getting known in the industry. Um, 0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:49.880 and people hate on him like Cameron is a great example, Like, um, 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:54.400 guys hate on Cameron constantly. And and I'm not like 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:57.960 a huge Cameron leg humping fan, right, but you can't 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:01.440 deny the guy is just a physical you know, beast, right, 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:04.640 Like the guy's just a machine. He works hard. And 0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:07.200 so if you hate on the guy and you're making 0:33:07.400 --> 0:33:10.640 crazy jokes, why would you do that when he's one 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:13.400 of the greater spokesmans for the outdoor community, like him 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:17.800 or not, Why would you publicly bash him? Now? I 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:20.160 mean I made a couple of nipple jokes about him 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:21.640 before that you need to put a shirt on, but 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:25.640 in gen humor. But it's like, you know, and I'm 0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:27.520 gonna do that no matter who you are. Like, if 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:30.280 if you've got to set a spandex on and you 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:32.440 post a photo, you're gonna probably get some kind of 0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:36.880 message from me. That's making cracking jokes just I mean, yeah, 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.400 I hung around with a rough crowd. But if you 0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:41.880 get on and just basically straight up say why the 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:44.400 hell did you shoot that? I mean a lot of 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:48.040 it's gonna be envy, jealousy again, small penises and male 0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:52.400 pride um because if you take a big step back. 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.720 If it was your brother that shot that animal, or 0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:58.720 your sister or your mom, are you gonna make fun 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:02.160 of them? Probably not. But if it's somebody that you 0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:05.360 don't know, because you're always tougher on the computer, you 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.600 can say whatever you want. There's no accountability because I'm 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:10.600 not saying I'm in capable get my ask beat. But 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:12.960 there's some people that have said things to me on 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:15.200 my line, and I guarantee they wouldn't say it to 0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:18.280 my face. And the computer, the internet is a great 0:34:18.280 --> 0:34:21.560 way for people living their mom's basement and talk shit. Um, 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:24.879 I mean it just did he do? Yeah? I mean 0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:29.000 Cam is Cam Haynes is a great He's as great 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:32.920 example because he's polarizing for the weirdest reasons. I've hunted 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.880 with Cam many times, not many times, enough times to 0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:38.600 know and hung around him enough times to know that 0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:40.520 he's legit. I mean, the fact that he can run 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:42.560 two dred miles at a time, it should just end 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:45.680 the conversation right there. It should end right there. I mean, 0:34:46.400 --> 0:34:48.280 there's not a whole lot of people that can challenge 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:52.279 that guy's ability too much of anything. So he's never 0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:55.440 I've never seen him put post anything that I thought, well, 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:59.600 that's bad for hunting, Not one time. Um, you know 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:00.920 it does he you things a little different than some 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:02.920 other people. Sure, yeah, we all do things different, But 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:04.960 I've never once thought, well, I need to talk to 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:07.239 Cam about that thing he's doing because it's it's not 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:09.920 good for all of us. So yeah, I mean that. 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:12.200 Then that leaves all the petty people that you're talking 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.520 about with the tiny penis is to talk about how 0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:19.400 big how big is muscles are, or how big the 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:22.279 animal is and poke at the things that really don't matter. 0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:24.160 At the end of the day. The petty people are 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:28.880 left to throw shade at at Cam. In my opinion, 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:30.560 I've seen it a lot. And then the bigger you 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:32.720 get he's got I don't know how many followers nowadays, 0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:34.839 but the bigger you get, it seems like the more 0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:37.400 hate you get. I think that's just a rule of life. 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.320 Oh I've seen that one myself. Um, luckily I've stayed 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:44.200 above a frey on some of it, you know, and 0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:46.880 I don't have I'm only get I don't know how 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:48.279 many followers I got. I don't know. I don't have 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:51.040 the many as he does, but as it grows right 0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:54.040 like you post. I had a visor on the other 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:57.359 day on an elk Ive shot, so I immediately posted, hey, 0:35:57.400 --> 0:35:59.840 I got shamed out of wearing the visor before anybody 0:35:59.880 --> 0:36:04.520 may to comment, And some of the messages I got 0:36:04.640 --> 0:36:08.960 were just, I mean, in fun sort of. But I 0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:13.120 was like, it's a visor, right, like I don't have 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.439 the skin of a human on my head. For christ Thicke, 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:21.480 it's a visor. Well, it's amazing, like wants you get 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:24.319 to be more known. Whoever can take a pop shot 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.360 at you, whatever it may be, unless you just ship gold, 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.239 they're gonna find a reason to make fun of you. 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:33.840 And in my case, I think I I think I 0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:36.200 said I've seen Cameron's nipples more than my wife. He 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:39.240 should put a shirt on for something like that, because 0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:41.960 that's my humor. But man, I would say that to 0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:44.759 his face and I didn't mean anything negative by it. 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:48.160 I was just like, yeah, I see you naked a lot, dude, 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.600 um type of a thing. But I don't That kind 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:53.480 of stuff doesn't bother me. When guys say crap like 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:56.080 that about me, it doesn't matter. It's the truly hateful 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.240 stuff that I just cannot believe it gets thrown at people, 0:36:59.360 --> 0:37:04.360 especially good for the community. Yeah, I mean there's a 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:06.239 lot of people that are seeing camp stuff, that are 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:10.200 inspired by camp stuff that that would never understand hunting 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.880 if it wasn't for some of the prisms that he 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:16.200 puts it through. And I've I've never I mean, I don't, 0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:19.040 you know, think of myself. I think of myself as 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:21.040 a guy that works at yet to be quite honest, 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:23.920 and um, this podcast was just a nice way to 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:27.600 have these kind of conversations and record them U and I. 0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:32.080 But I have rarely I would say, like once every 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:35.600 couple of posts, I'll get something negative. And usually when 0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:39.000 it's negative, it's far down the rabbit hole. It's pretty 0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:41.759 it's like fuck you, I hope you die, I hope 0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.719 your family dies. It's not hey didn't really like that. 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:48.839 It's it's extreme. So I just chalk that those kind 0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:50.879 of things up to people that just don't know how 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:54.160 to like human interaction is lost on them. That I 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:56.759 don't imagine there's any good at it in person, let 0:37:56.800 --> 0:37:59.840 alone on the internet. Yeah, oh yeah for sure. And 0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:02.680 I can say like there's I mean, as far as 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:05.960 things that people may need to call, like you've mentioned 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.560 like there's not one post he's made that you don't 0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:11.360 need to call and say, hey, I've been a talking 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:13.480 about it. Oh, I can guarantee there's ship like that 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:15.640 on my page where you might need to call. Especially 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:20.160 things I've said, I mean, not horrible, but I mean 0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:23.799 when you're got a mouth like mine or whatever, you know, 0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:28.040 there's gonna be things I say that probably I shouldn't, Um, 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:30.040 but I still try to do my best as far 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:33.360 as like a good spokesman for the outdoor you know, community, 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:38.560 and you know, when it comes down to it, like, um, 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:42.040 what the issues were already having now? Um, if you 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.759 go to I mean I've seen guys bash Rogan and 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.000 I've sent a messages and be like, yeah, let's piss 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:49.480 on one of the greatest spokesmans we have for hunting 0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:52.560 right now, let's shoot on him. You're fucking moron, Like 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:56.280 are you stupid? Like he's one of the greatest assets 0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:59.359 we have right now? And what is Rogan to do? Like, oh, 0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:03.160 the guy spot you know he's stupid and bad for honey. Yeah, 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.560 I think about half the planet smokes pot right now. 0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:13.919 Let's yeah, anybody anybody that attacks that guy. I mean, man, 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:16.400 he's just a good person. So anybody that's listening to 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:19.359 this that is thinking about attacking Joe Rogan one, he'll 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.520 kick your ass. Two. He's just a good dude. And 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:25.880 there's no other way to describe him. So if you 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:28.680 listen to the podcast he thinks there's some like disingenuous 0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:31.279 nature to anything he says or does, there isn't, I 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:33.640 promise you that. And he's just I can give you 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.160 twenty examples of just real good things that no one 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.560 would ever know that he did for me and people 0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:42.680 around me. And I'm sure you're the same that he 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:44.600 just does because he's a good guy and he doesn't 0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.680 he doesn't need any accolade accolades for any of that stuff. 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:49.680 So yeah, there's just weird ones like that where that 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:53.279 person clearly is just looking for something. And like you said, 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.000 I think sometimes hunters fall more prey to that than 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:59.080 other groups of folks. I don't know this, probably will 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:02.880 probably never figure out what away by this. Where I 0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:06.239 bounced things off of photography getting it I mean, and 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.040 you know, I hate to say this in a sense 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:13.080 of like I'm not comparing hunting to photography, but you 0:40:13.120 --> 0:40:17.680 look at on photography forums and social media pages and 0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:20.319 you kind of get the same stuff on there where 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:22.800 you have haters and you have all this different stuff, 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:26.799 and I mean it's human nature. For for one. The 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.360 thing is is no one's going to take photography away 0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:34.520 from people, I think and get taken away. So if 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:37.279 photographers want to fight amongst themselves or un some funk 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:38.839 on it, you know what I mean, they can throw 0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:42.440 batteries back and forth at each other. But losing the 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.920 right to hunt is a real threat. Um. The second 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:50.640 moment is a real threat, and so it's a it's 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:54.160 a different um. I guess it just puts us in 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:56.120 a different spot light or a different level where we 0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:58.279 really need to watch her mind, you know, mind our 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:00.719 p's and ques and try to come out of the 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.440 United Front running a bunch of red knick dip shifts. 0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:07.759 We generally come off. Yeah. I mean, I've always said 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:10.879 that when people say, you know, if if you run 0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:14.120 a company, if hunting was a company, we would nobody 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:19.080 would buy us. Hunting, the hunting community, industry, hunting as 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:21.000 a whole average you want to describe it, nobody would 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:24.160 buy it because it's there's less hunters than ever. Almost 0:41:24.239 --> 0:41:27.600 seems like every year. The public perception of it seems 0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:30.839 like it wanes that every every time somebody shoots a lion. 0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:33.160 There's not a whole lot of people in this country 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:35.600 that truly understand it. I mean, we're getting way better, 0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:38.600 way better as a group, and there's a lot of 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:40.840 us that are pushing towards what I would feel like 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:44.160 is the right angle. Um. Do you buy that if 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:45.839 we were, if we were a company that no one 0:41:46.000 --> 0:41:50.160 buy stock and hunting, it would be a difficult sell, um, 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:56.600 because we've done a bad job at uh selling ourselves. Um. 0:41:56.640 --> 0:41:58.640 And I think that as you as you say that, 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:01.520 we'll do and better. I mean, I just spent an 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:04.200 hour on the phone with a Diplarma via w agent, 0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:08.680 a game warden about um a podcast for doing tomorrow, 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:13.920 but about changing this perception for the greater good of hunting. 0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:19.959 Meaning it's informing representing what we do in a better light. 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:24.520 How do we do that? Like you know? Um? Is 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:26.759 it is it bad to take a picture of a 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:29.480 photo of a deer in the back of a truck 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:31.880 with beer tans in the back? I mean, do whatever 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:34.680 you want, but don't post that ship on social media. 0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:38.320 I masturbate every day, No one needs to know, don't 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.200 post it on social media, right, Like there's some ships 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:45.919 that are left untold, and that's what I just don't understand. What, guys, 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:49.239 do you need to have the l hanging from the 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:53.279 fucking forklift and take a photo of it? Yeah, it 0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:55.879 doesn't really matter, but why do you need to tell 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:59.200 everyone and show everyone. That's where we need to really 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.160 police our ols on that kind of behavior. I don't 0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:05.200 have a problem with. That's how you cleaned in. I 0:43:05.239 --> 0:43:07.400 don't think it needs to be posted for the world 0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:10.120 to see, does it? Because it because it does put 0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:11.840 you in a bad lay. I mean, I don't know 0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:14.759 how you feel about that. Yeah, I mean that that's 0:43:14.800 --> 0:43:17.640 the thing like we we were taught. I was on 0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:19.839 this panel with I don't know how much ever, listen 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:22.799 to Shane Mahoney, but that dude's he's one of a kind. 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:28.000 He's pretty special dude, especially Shane Mahoney. You know Shane 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:33.640 at all, m um So Shane, it was was talking 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:36.800 about there's four teams. Say there's fourteen million hunters. We 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:38.680 know there's eleven million or so now, but whatever the 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:41.799 number is, let's say there's eleven million hunters. Every single 0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:44.040 one of them has a chance to be a pr 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:46.920 agent for hunting. Everyone has a chance. Not everyone will, 0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:49.160 but everyone has a chance. Like you have a choice 0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:51.800 whether to be good or bad for hunting. And that's 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:56.480 what's both encouraging and scary about this next generation. You know, 0:43:56.520 --> 0:44:00.279 I'm thirty two my generation. What's an encouraging about it 0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:02.880 is everybody has a voice. What's what's scary about it 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.320 is everybody has a voice. And so that's why I 0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:08.080 think this conversation is important. One because we haven't a 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:12.080 generationally haven't done a shitty job at framing hunting up 0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:15.440 and talking about all the good things. And then too, 0:44:15.480 --> 0:44:18.000 because there's eleven million people that are out there hunting 0:44:18.320 --> 0:44:21.040 that can all tell their own story, for good or bad. 0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:23.360 So I think that's why, you know, us talking about 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:25.480 this for half an hour podcast is a thing that 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.640 has to continue to happen because it's such an important 0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:30.719 topic because there's so many people that have a chance 0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:32.680 to impact what you and I do for a living, 0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:35.760 whether we want to go to hunt bears and grizzly 0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:39.960 bears and b c or or mountain lions in California 0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:42.160 or whatever we can't currently do. We may not be 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:45.200 able to to go do the thing we want to 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:48.520 do tomorrow because somebody, you know, posted something that was 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:56.719 socially unacceptable. M hmm, well yeah, I think that's yeah. 0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:58.960 The answer to the answer to that question is is 0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:01.920 very much just we gotta dial with in. Everybody has 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.880 to dial it in as a group, really do no. No, 0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:10.520 I agree? Um, and I think as a whole. Um. 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:12.160 I mean, and this is coming in I said this 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:15.400 million times on Bryant's podcast. I mean, this is coming 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:20.520 from a redneck kind of a bloodthirsty When I say bloodthirsty, 0:45:20.600 --> 0:45:25.600 what can be perceived as blood thirsty? Guy? Um? And 0:45:25.680 --> 0:45:28.680 it probably ten years ago, was the worst spokesman for 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:30.880 Honey because I didn't have a brain. I was a 0:45:30.960 --> 0:45:33.480 dumb ship, right. I mean, I just but as you 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:36.960 as you are exposed to all these different things, right, 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:39.120 and all these you know, it's a it's a collective 0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:41.400 of Yeah. I mean, your life is the book, right, 0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:43.640 you got all these different chapters, and you know is 0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:46.680 the book goes on towards the industry chapter. As you're 0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:49.960 reading chapter forty through fifty, you're gonna probably seem a 0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:52.560 lot more intelligent. You did a chapter once or five 0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:55.919 because you've you've learned, right. And one of the things 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:58.960 that I learned is as I grow in the outdoor 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:01.279 industry and I have a odium to speak on or 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:03.919 I'm doing cardio and bump into people to see I'm 0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:09.280 wearing a camel pack. Take that that that that point 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:13.080 in time in your life or whatever to to to 0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:19.319 shed a shining, bright, happy blowing beacon on hunting and 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:22.440 not act like a fucking dumbass, right and and and 0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:26.000 I think that when there's these two paths that people 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:29.040 have to take a right and and help hunting and 0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:31.399 take a lesson look like a dumb ship. I mean 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.520 it seems like a fifty fifty sometimes on what they do. 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:37.200 Like you run into somebody at a trailhead that says 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.000 I don't like hunters. Well you can come back and say, 0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:41.719 I don't give a ship what you like your dump 0:46:41.840 --> 0:46:43.719 and you start screaming at him already say hey, I 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:46.799 understand that. Why Hey, you know, I I don't mind 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:49.239 discussing this, like, hey, let's let's talk about it. Like 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:50.799 I don't want you to have a poor opinion of 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:53.879 me just because I hunt. Let's talk. I've done that. 0:46:53.960 --> 0:46:58.160 I mean, like the you know, Boulder, Colorado, right, like 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:00.839 you can't find them more well they you want, right, 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.640 I'm in Denver, but you're not going to find more 0:47:03.840 --> 0:47:06.640 liberal people in the trail has been here. But I 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:11.280 have found it hugely helpful to be fairly well spoken 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.120 and have some data behind you and be able to 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:19.680 represent hunting in a strong um. I say argument, but 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:23.640 an argument, you know, and let him know what happens 0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:26.799 and why, how the circle of life works, rather than 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.240 just saying, oh, shut up, you dumb ship and grab 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:32.160 your weapon and walk away. Well, I just put another 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:34.200 black eye on hunting. I may, I may want to 0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:39.920 say that, but don't I feel you unsent. I've had 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.480 a few conversations with people and it seems like the 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:46.120 person that doesn't agree with with hunting, or you know, 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:47.759 you label a manti hunter if you want to what 0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:50.759 a person is ignorant about it or doesn't agree with 0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:52.799 it is the is the aggressor in the beginning, like 0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:54.799 they're pushing your buttons to see how you're going to react. 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.800 I've had that in person a few times, where someone 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.560 was pushing my buttons just to see see how I 0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:03.400 would react, or or just because they they had their 0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:05.920 own preconceived notions. They wanted to see how that conversation 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.120 would go and see if I would revert to my 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:10.040 red neck you know, pound my chest and run out 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:13.480 of the room. Um, revert to my redneck status as 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:16.040 a as you know, I'm like you, man, I came 0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.200 from I came from shoot a spike. Anything with antlers 0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:22.040 on its head got shot. And we didn't we didn't 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:24.440 discuss much other than was it a two point or 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:26.879 a four point or an eight point? That was our 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:30.520 only the only way we talked about antlers. And so yeah, 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:32.440 I think some people who don't agree with they are 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:34.799 expecting that kman response from me, and that's kind of 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:36.480 what they want. And if you give it to him, 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.200 then you're losing it. You're losing the battle. Yeah. No, no, 0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:42.560 I I agree. And you know, I've talked to like 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:44.399 Calhan and I I mean I don't I don't really 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:47.719 have talked to Romela too much. Um, but you know, 0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:51.520 obviously being in the industry and in a position, I mean, 0:48:51.880 --> 0:48:55.440 I mean I've hunted with Calhan quite a bit. And again, 0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:59.239 I mean every he did a great job. I mean 0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:03.600 the mustache shell said, right shave that those other clown 0:49:03.640 --> 0:49:05.920 haircut there Jesus. On that loose time we were on 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:09.480 he had fourteen He had like a skullet man like 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.000 like full on comb over hair, and I'm like, you 0:49:12.160 --> 0:49:14.200 just shave that should off and keep the dash man 0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:17.160 at pamp. But you know, he and I profited ton 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:23.080 um about different stuff like this. And again, I mean 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:27.040 you think about it. Sixty five days a year. Half 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:29.680 of those you probably have a chance to shed a 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:33.399 brighter light on hunting. And people need to take that 0:49:34.360 --> 0:49:38.040 every chance they get, whether you're a cross fit at jim. 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:41.040 You know photography, UM, you know not to preach this. 0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:44.360 If I'm snapping photos the giant running mule deer in 0:49:44.360 --> 0:49:49.120 an area where I'm surrounded by National Geographic photographers and 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:51.839 they figure out on a hunter, I just look at 0:49:51.880 --> 0:49:54.640 that as a bonus. But I need to look at 0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.879 that as a bonus and take that opportunity that they 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:02.120 see is intelligent. He's taking photo, Okay, he backpacks in 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:05.440 or he does this. Oh yeah, no, I understand and 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:10.719 use that opportunity rather than UM one either hiding from 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:14.280 it because you're not spreading the word an intelligent word UM, 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:17.879 or two just getting from bative which and it never 0:50:17.920 --> 0:50:20.279 goes anywhere. And I'm a trombative guy, but I mean, 0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:23.400 you can't be in that situation. Yeah, And I wonder, like, 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:26.480 you know, because Yetie, we deal with a lot of 0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:29.560 I mean, we deal with climbers and skiers. I mean, 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:32.360 I'm talking top level influencers in these worlds, you know, 0:50:32.680 --> 0:50:34.920 the guys like in climbing, guys like Conrad Anchor and 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:39.120 Jimmy Chen, people who are you know, super influential, not 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:41.480 only in those smaller communities, but just in that outdoor 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:44.920 wreck community overall. And I just wonder how much and 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:48.560 I have no idea how much in those groups they 0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:51.239 talk like this, how much they say, Man, we all 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:54.160 got to pull together and shine a better light on climbing, 0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:55.799 or we all got to pull together and shine a 0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:58.920 better light on skiing. I'm man, it's great that we 0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:01.200 can have that conversation, this one. As much as some 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:03.880 of it could be negative pointed towards the negative, the 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.640 whole purpose of the damn thing is that so we 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:08.960 can all get better and keep doing it because we 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:12.040 love it to day much. And so I just wonder 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:15.160 that sometimes outside of in the national geographic world, are 0:51:15.160 --> 0:51:18.160 they more pointed towards other communities. Are they ever to 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:19.960 look inside of their own stuff and be like, hey, 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:21.879 we can do this better or that better. I wonder 0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:24.480 about that because I know that's the reason why I 0:51:24.480 --> 0:51:26.839 love doing this, because this conversation is all about getting better. 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:29.080 Even if you have to point out a few people 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:31.440 that are poking holes in the boat to uh, to 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:34.400 get there. Yeah, and I tell you what the pointing 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:38.120 out poken hole in the boat people? UM, I have 0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:41.920 found that could be difficult to get best because you know, 0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:44.160 some people may not know that they're shooting holes in 0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:47.680 the boat. Was you know, fifty cow and other people 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:50.239 may be locked and loaded with you know, the mob 0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:53.920 is just firing away like I don't give a ship. Well, 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:58.319 I mean I I just think like, um, if you're 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:04.000 wanting to be grow Second Amendment, UM, pro rate at 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:06.719 whatever if you if you if you're wanting to to 0:52:06.880 --> 0:52:10.479 do that, UM, I think it's great. I just think 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:13.480 that showing bloody dead animals laying all over the place 0:52:14.320 --> 0:52:18.120 is shooting some big holes in the boat. Um. Even 0:52:18.160 --> 0:52:22.000 though you may think like, well it so it has written, 0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:23.759 so shall it be done? This is how it's been 0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:26.719 in history and it can't change. Oh, it can change, 0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:30.480 and it's rocking changing quick. And so what I mean, 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:33.080 have them somepford when you point those things out to 0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:36.080 those people, Maybe just not you know, throw it in 0:52:36.120 --> 0:52:37.840 their face. But I also say, hey, man, you know, 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:41.080 I've been really thinking about this, and I think maybe 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:42.880 you know, you might want to try and do with this. 0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:44.560 This might help out a bit more. You know that 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:47.080 the messages you're kind of putting out now or giving 0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:50.279 us a black eye, I mean, you can only do 0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:52.720 so much. But I mean it's it's always worth to try. 0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:55.719 I guess that I'm saying that. I know I've had 0:52:55.760 --> 0:52:58.640 probably fifty fifty luck at that when I spent messages 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:02.000 like hey, coming from a fellow redneck man, you may 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:04.520 want to change what you're doing. Sometimes it's receives well, 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:08.200 sometimes it's not received at all, and I get unfriendedden blocked. 0:53:08.239 --> 0:53:13.799 So damn people are savage on the internet. I don't 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:15.600 like what you're saying. Don't ever say anything to me 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:19.520 again savage. Yeah, exactly where you can't get punched in 0:53:19.560 --> 0:53:21.239 the face on the internet. Man, that would solve a 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:22.959 lot of problems. I hate to say it that way, 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:25.920 but you think about it. When people act that the 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:27.759 way they do in their cars, on the phone or 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:30.520 on the internet, if they can get whacked in the noggain, No, 0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:35.239 there's no accountability, So there are some savages on there. Yeah, 0:53:35.320 --> 0:53:38.279 that's in the basement of your month's house. Do you 0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:40.400 ever feel like that? Is this? Like you have that 0:53:40.440 --> 0:53:42.120 great platform that you do. I mean, there's a lot 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:44.440 of people watching what you do based on a lot 0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:46.040 of on a lot of reasons. But then at the 0:53:46.080 --> 0:53:49.400 same time that platform is this this Pandora's box that 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:52.120 you open it up and next thing you know, a 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:56.240 couple of assholes stroll through and and uh get ruined 0:53:56.239 --> 0:53:58.359 your day, or at least you get you fired up 0:53:58.360 --> 0:54:01.600 for a moment. Like sometimes I like having had as 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:04.120 much of that as as some people have. But sometimes 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:06.200 I'm I wonder if I'd say I pull off for 0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:08.080 a couple of months, would my hunting life be different 0:54:08.080 --> 0:54:10.400 when I feel less influential even though the people around 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:14.400 me um that I'm hunting with our learned from me 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:16.560 and I'm learned from them. Social media is it's the 0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:19.280 son of a bit. Yeah, I mean, and I talked 0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:21.440 quite a bit, and I mean, you know, who Aaron 0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:27.360 Nielsen is. He was the guy had on the podcast. 0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:29.640 He was like, if you look at trophy hunting, he's 0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:32.839 a he's got a photo in additionary beside, he's right there. 0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:35.879 And he was the guy brought on the podcast because 0:54:35.920 --> 0:54:40.440 I was like, you know, he put he has views, um, 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:45.439 you know, uh, you know, nobody's living for sustiments off 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:48.920 of meat in this whole meat eating, anti trophy hunting 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:52.960 is going to be the end of of the outdoor industry. 0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:56.400 And and so I brought him on one for more context, 0:54:56.520 --> 0:55:00.399 like what exactly are you talking about? Because I was like, know, Aaron, 0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:02.799 I just shot a go and took a photo behind it. 0:55:03.719 --> 0:55:05.880 That was my trophy. And I don't have a problem 0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:09.279 saying that that. You know, that was important to me. 0:55:09.320 --> 0:55:12.640 And he was saying that we're going to be there. 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:16.080 You know that the trophy hunting thing hiding behind it 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:19.680 was um giving us a black guy that we needed 0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:22.200 to be proud of it. And and you know, he's 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:25.840 obviously becoming a very trophy hunting in a large background 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:27.839 and you guys are actually a sponsor of him and 0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:30.719 or he had Triggy count Outdoors, I think is what 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:34.400 it is. But anyway, you know, talking with him, you 0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:36.760 know he stops on it aren't a whole lot different 0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:39.160 than other people's. That's how it's perceived or how he 0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:44.400 came across. And I just think that a good example. 0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:52.680 If um, you were to um say that I paid 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:56.480 twenty five thousand, or raid it, I paid four hundred 0:55:56.520 --> 0:56:02.600 thousand dollars for the Montana sheep tag um that prostitution 0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:06.120 of an animal. It's sure fucking funds like it out 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:10.520 the gate right four thousand dollars for one bullet. But 0:56:11.320 --> 0:56:16.239 in context that four hundred thousand dollars went to the 0:56:16.239 --> 0:56:20.919 conservation habitat. Um. Telling the story of where that money goes, 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:24.279 how much it helps, probably gonna shed quite a bit 0:56:24.280 --> 0:56:27.040 of a different light on it than Yeah, there's a 0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:28.840 bunch of guys that show up in a building and 0:56:28.960 --> 0:56:32.239 bid on animals for a ridiculous amount of money so 0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:33.920 they can hang it on their wall and found their 0:56:34.000 --> 0:56:37.399 chest that they looked in. It comes across that way 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:41.760 rather than saying and explaining that that goes to conservation 0:56:42.000 --> 0:56:46.319 and the betterment of habitat for wild sheep. Um. So 0:56:46.360 --> 0:56:49.319 it's all all about context and telling the story that 0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:53.400 to me than then it is anything else. I mean, 0:56:53.440 --> 0:56:55.200 I think you can really shoot on a good thing 0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:57.759 if you're not careful. Well we do. We allow that 0:56:57.800 --> 0:56:59.800 to happen, though, that ship would like you go to 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:02.879 you know, I know you're not a trade show guy, 0:57:02.920 --> 0:57:06.040 but I go to SCI every year and there's some 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:09.560 stuff at SCI that is just pretty appalling. Like I'll 0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:12.000 call it out straight up. I mean, I'm not I 0:57:12.040 --> 0:57:13.879 have no problem with saying, hey, s C, I clean 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:16.240 up some of your trophy hunting ship, Like, just do 0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:19.040 that for for me and for Aaron, for anybody else 0:57:19.080 --> 0:57:21.880 listening like that. I was there this year and you 0:57:21.920 --> 0:57:25.560 walk by and there's a sign um for a dollar 0:57:25.600 --> 0:57:28.000 elephant hunt. I think it was something like that from 0:57:28.000 --> 0:57:32.080 an outfitter and below it it was like book a 0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:36.200 child sixteen and under or a military veteran and receive 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:39.560 a free impala, it said, and it was like a 0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:43.600 gold lettering and a flashing sign. They're treating an animal. 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:45.439 And I thought for a minute they were talking about 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:48.120 a Chevy and Paula. I thought, damn, you get a 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.560 Chevy and polyph on an elephant. That's a badass, um. 0:57:51.600 --> 0:57:53.680 But they were talking about an animal. They were selling 0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:55.840 an animal like it was part of a swag bag 0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:59.680 or some ship, and that kind of stuff. That's never 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:03.000 gonna fly with normal society. They're never going to understand 0:58:03.080 --> 0:58:06.720 that because it's not as far as valuing an animal. 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:09.040 That's not right as long as that stuff is allowed 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:13.640 to exist inside of this great conservation resource that I see, 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:16.040 I could be. It's never gonna be. It's always gonna 0:58:16.040 --> 0:58:18.840 be an oxymoron. Yeah, no, no, And I understand that. 0:58:18.960 --> 0:58:21.920 And I mean I I talked with um, you know, 0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:24.000 Brian about some of the things you guys had talked, 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:26.680 like the grip and grin thing, like I told, you know, 0:58:26.720 --> 0:58:30.080 Brian got beat up about that badly, and I'm like, Brian, 0:58:31.200 --> 0:58:33.400 you know, damn good and will the moment you shoot 0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:36.400 an animal, you take a grip and grin. And he's like, 0:58:36.480 --> 0:58:38.080 I didn't say I didn't like him, you know, the 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:40.200 bid had said he didn't like him, and then he 0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:43.320 explained it more depth and and and my thing was like, 0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:47.520 I think a grip and grin isn't the hunts if 0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:50.800 you have told the story from beginning to end. And 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:53.480 I guess, like with the s c I, or like 0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:56.120 with anything else or like I talked about Wild Cheap, 0:58:57.000 --> 0:58:58.720 which they do a great job. I'm not I mean 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:02.080 they do a great job with they do. But um, 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:05.720 if you leave context out and someone just walks up 0:59:06.520 --> 0:59:09.080 and you see we're gonna you know, hey, you know, 0:59:10.080 --> 0:59:13.360 you get this prostitute and we're going to give you 0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:16.320 a free blow job while we're at it, Yeah, that 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:21.160 sounds pretty bad, right, That's horrible. Where if if you say, hey, 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:24.520 we're in it for veterans and show them are like um, 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:27.800 and and maybe not show them the other free death 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:30.800 to go along with it, you know, you probably could 0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:32.800 do a little bit better job still maybe have the 0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:36.919 end years old, but not look quite so bad doing it. Yeah. Yeah, 0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:39.240 And I think that the conversation with Brian on that 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:44.040 podcast I've said in on on this podcast and in 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:46.840 the last couple of episodes, like I will say that 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:50.160 my frame of mind going into that podcast with Brian 0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:52.280 was not good. I've been sick for like seven days 0:59:52.280 --> 0:59:55.160 of the trade show flew and I was walking around 0:59:55.200 --> 0:59:57.120 a t A and I was seeing so many group 0:59:57.200 --> 1:00:00.360 and grinds on big billboards and just looking at this like, 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:04.440 I don't you know, normally am I'm of the mindset 1:00:04.480 --> 1:00:06.800 like do it if you want, but just don't you know, 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:08.840 if you're gonna do it in hunting, understand that it 1:00:08.840 --> 1:00:11.240 affects me. And I just I was sitting at the 1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:13.520 Hoyt booth and God bless hoy they make great bows, 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:17.200 but they had these like the trading cards of every 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:21.360 one of their pro ambassador athletes type folks with the 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:23.720 with the group and grant on it. And I just 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:26.080 I think I had a little bit had enough at 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:28.760 that point and I probably said, you know, we should 1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:31.480 just quit doing this, where normally I would hedge that 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:33.800 bet a little bit. But I'm glad it happened that 1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:36.960 way because that's kind of how I feel now. Um, 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:39.480 And that's it's nuance. It's not just that one opinion, 1:00:39.560 --> 1:00:40.880 but it's you know, that's how I kind of how 1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:43.920 I feel well. And I think with what you're saying 1:00:44.080 --> 1:00:47.440 is is not um, I kind of think somewhat of 1:00:47.480 --> 1:00:50.880 the same things and somewhat different to where I think 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:54.160 that one, you should never be ashamed of an animal 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:57.280 you've taken. So when you look at trophy, what bothers 1:00:57.320 --> 1:01:00.680 me about trophy as a people immediately think, I mean 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:03.320 true trophy, honey, I guess you look, definition is shooting 1:01:03.360 --> 1:01:07.200 the oldest age species, That the oldest animal in the group, right, 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:12.960 like you're looking for the oldest species. But that it's 1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:18.240 a broad, very broad, very very broad hunting community of 1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:23.480 all different ability levels, of all different financial levels. And uh, 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:26.720 you know, a trophy for a guy starting out is 1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:29.760 going to probably be a doe or a cow. Right, 1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:33.840 that's his his technically trophy. Well, I don't think he 1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:36.560 should hide. I don't think he should be ashamed of 1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:38.960 what he shout. I mean, I don't think that you 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:42.080 should be ashamed of anything, any animal. Any A life 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:47.560 is alife, and you know my thing isn't necessarily high 1:01:47.560 --> 1:01:51.200 behind grip and grins, but be proud of everything you do. 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:56.280 And being ashamed of animals that you've taken because it's 1:01:56.320 --> 1:01:59.120 not big enough is just as bad for the industry 1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:03.040 is anything else, because it makes it look like my 1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:05.680 penis wasn't big enough. Today, I don't have enough stripes 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:08.439 on my shoulder and I'm gonna put my head down 1:02:08.520 --> 1:02:12.520 because I only shot a cow. Ye. Well, I don't 1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:17.880 think that's good either. Um personally, I think that um, 1:02:18.000 --> 1:02:21.520 the community, you should be happy for anyone now don't 1:02:21.640 --> 1:02:24.440 give me your Um you got a hundred thousand followers 1:02:24.480 --> 1:02:27.080 on social media and your spirit of influence you only 1:02:27.080 --> 1:02:30.520 shot of shot of grouse. Yeah, I think that ship's 1:02:30.560 --> 1:02:32.560 bad too, right, I mean, what kind of a spokes 1:02:32.560 --> 1:02:34.600 and money for hunting if you don't know how to hunt? 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:38.320 I think you might be not diving into a different 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:42.520 rabbit hole. But um, I don't know that that's the 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:45.280 greatest thing for hunting either, that that we have some 1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:50.440 people in the spears of influence that for hunting that 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:52.760 don't really know how to hunt. I don't know that 1:02:52.800 --> 1:02:55.440 that's a good thing. But I think, um, you know, 1:02:55.600 --> 1:02:58.960 being proud of everything that you do, representing hunting in 1:02:58.960 --> 1:03:02.200 the right light, telling story about what you did, and 1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:05.240 everyone actually kind of getting along with that and being 1:03:05.280 --> 1:03:08.400 supportive is the is the going to be the best 1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:11.680 thing we have for the future. Rather than everybody making 1:03:11.720 --> 1:03:13.880 fun of each other and ship talking and everything else 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:15.320 they don't know the text is going to really get 1:03:15.360 --> 1:03:20.240 us anywhere. Ye times already well, yeah, we've been probably 1:03:20.280 --> 1:03:22.400 beating the horse to death at this point. But I 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:26.120 I would say, you know, it's there's the nuance thing, 1:03:26.120 --> 1:03:29.200 the grip and grint isn't It isn't just one thing. Like, 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:31.720 there's a lot of things the ways that can show up. 1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:34.640 And I would always I always just what I would 1:03:34.680 --> 1:03:36.960 my opinion as it's evolved through. You know, from that 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:39.800 conversation with Brian on is just that what you need 1:03:39.880 --> 1:03:42.880 to know what your potential for your audience is. If 1:03:42.920 --> 1:03:46.080 you understand the potential for your audience, then you're always gonna, 1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:48.600 you know, act accordingly. If the potential is a million 1:03:48.640 --> 1:03:50.720 people to see it, then you should we should be 1:03:50.760 --> 1:03:52.560 able to hedge a little bit of potential. Is just 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:54.600 your buddy who you texted it too, then you can 1:03:54.800 --> 1:03:57.480 be a little more open with what you're saying. And 1:03:57.520 --> 1:03:59.760 then and and then just understand what the grip and 1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:02.520 grand is too people that aren't hunters. I just understand 1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:06.520 that and be aware of it and then act act 1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:09.160 accordingly based on your awareness of what what it means 1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:11.520 to people that don't do it. And if you can 1:04:11.600 --> 1:04:14.760 kind of get on those two planes. And you know, 1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:18.040 I'm not against the prideful showing of killing an animal. Crap, 1:04:18.080 --> 1:04:20.439 I've done it my whole life. Um, But I think, 1:04:20.720 --> 1:04:22.680 you know, I think even that conversation, I had a 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:25.400 lot of feedback, people just who are thinking a little 1:04:25.440 --> 1:04:27.680 bit more about it than they did before. And I 1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:30.040 think that's really the only goal. Think about it a 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:33.080 little bit more than you did yesterday, be more aware 1:04:33.120 --> 1:04:35.120 of of some of the things maybe you weren't so 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:37.880 aware of yesterday, and then we'll all be better for it. 1:04:37.920 --> 1:04:39.640 And then ten years down the road, maybe this whole 1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:41.920 thing looks different than it those right now. Man. I 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:44.480 hope and and I I you know again, like there's something. 1:04:44.720 --> 1:04:47.160 I mean, not everyone agrees, but we can agree to 1:04:47.200 --> 1:04:49.840 disagree and talk about I think that's great. And I 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:54.840 think that again when you when you go down to 1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:57.360 I don't pick up whatever. I go down to the 1:04:57.400 --> 1:05:02.280 local mountaineering store and um, a guy asked me if 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:04.600 I hunt, because I said, I need boosts that are 1:05:04.640 --> 1:05:07.400 capable or stiff because I'm gonna be carrying hunter. Plot 1:05:07.560 --> 1:05:11.040 asked why, and I said, well, I'm a hunter. And 1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:13.920 the next thing you do, I I flashed through seventy 1:05:13.960 --> 1:05:19.160 five photos of dead animals. That might be cool to him, 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:22.120 but it also might be cool to him to start 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:24.200 scrolling through and say, yeah, man, this is the maroon 1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:26.440 bells I was. I was actually one part of the 1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:29.280 four pass loop when I spotted this deer. You know, 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:31.920 I was right on this summit. Actually there's whatever, and 1:05:31.920 --> 1:05:35.200 and then here's my camp, you know, and yeah, holy coward, 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:37.600 we were a long way than it snowed like crazy. 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:42.160 I think that, in my opinion, is perceived far better 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:46.880 than seventy five photos of straight death right, because he 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:49.080 sees what you did, he sees your hearts into it, 1:05:49.120 --> 1:05:51.440 he sees the training you did that you backpacked in 1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:55.880 or whatever it is um rather than just seventy five 1:05:55.920 --> 1:05:58.160 photos to standing behind big gear or big Elk or 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:00.560 big whatever. And so I agree with you on some 1:06:00.640 --> 1:06:04.640 of that stuff. Coolheartedly. I do that when you walk 1:06:04.680 --> 1:06:08.240 in and all you see is giant dead ship with 1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:11.959 people behind it, that it can look really bad from 1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:16.800 a non perspective. And and and I and again I'm 1:06:16.960 --> 1:06:19.320 coming from a redneck background where I could get ship 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:25.840 myself too. But again I just especially with photography and 1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:30.000 the hiking the backpacking side of things, I am more 1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:32.920 involved now with anti and non hunters by far than 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:36.800 I thought I would ever be. And I know what 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:39.120 I will argue to the death. I know what it 1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:42.080 takes to convert them. I know what and I've had 1:06:42.120 --> 1:06:45.760 great luck with it. And so that's where when guys 1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:48.240 start arguing with me, I'm like, look, it's not an argument. 1:06:48.760 --> 1:06:52.160 This happened yesterday, happened last week, and this is what 1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:54.640 I did. And as sure as ship wasn't showing a 1:06:54.720 --> 1:06:57.760 two well, I don't have a two ten inchmul here, 1:06:57.760 --> 1:07:00.560 But as sure as wasn't showing giant animals over and over, 1:07:01.120 --> 1:07:04.880 it was showing a sacrifice to dedication with training, explaining 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:08.400 about shooting a bow, explaining about breaking down the animal, 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:12.600 ex explaining about how much meat I brought home, um 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:18.200 in comparison to here's my giant animal that had my boots. Now, yeah, 1:07:18.360 --> 1:07:20.480 that trophy hunting and that that is where I think 1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:22.520 we get a black guy. Well right, and you get 1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:25.960 and again I keep bringing them up. But Rogan is 1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:29.120 a good example. Rogan has been I've taken many grip 1:07:29.120 --> 1:07:32.680 and griends of Joe Rogan. Um besides thinks he's killed 1:07:32.720 --> 1:07:35.360 and he's taken some of me and vice versa. But 1:07:35.480 --> 1:07:38.800 rarely has anyone ever seen them. Sometimes, like Cam Haynes 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:42.840 or John Dudl, theres somebody will post one um, but 1:07:42.840 --> 1:07:46.800 but Joe will never post one and I think he's 1:07:46.840 --> 1:07:49.400 thinking about just like what you're saying. I mean, they're 1:07:49.440 --> 1:07:51.440 like gripp and girls are kind of like trading cards 1:07:51.480 --> 1:07:54.400 that we can trade amongst ourselves. And that's great, and 1:07:54.440 --> 1:07:57.320 we all understand. Everybody that's hunted for any length of 1:07:57.360 --> 1:07:59.680 time that's in the community gets what they are trading 1:07:59.760 --> 1:08:02.680 back fourth and it's all great. But when you start 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:05.000 sharing with people that have that aren't in our club, 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:08.120 it's a little complicated. And so I think Joe's great 1:08:08.120 --> 1:08:10.760 example somebody who just doesn't share to his three million 1:08:10.800 --> 1:08:13.600 people that follow him on whatever social media, but he 1:08:13.640 --> 1:08:16.839 will share it amongst his buddies and amongst his family 1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:19.439 and friends. They see those photos because they know him 1:08:19.439 --> 1:08:22.120 and they know his intense. Um that's so, that's a 1:08:22.120 --> 1:08:24.519 good He's got a good, pretty good program working there, 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:27.640 I think. Um So, Aaron, tell me a little bit 1:08:27.680 --> 1:08:31.040 about Kafaro, because you know, I know we've been railing 1:08:31.080 --> 1:08:34.240 on how to make hunting better. But um, I'm a 1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:36.439 bit of a pack junkie. I don't know if that's 1:08:36.439 --> 1:08:38.840 the right term, but I love I think packs and 1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:41.800 boots are the two things that are most specific to 1:08:42.680 --> 1:08:46.160 mountain hunting. Um, So tell me about you know how 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:48.640 you got started with Kafaro and just what's going on 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:52.400 over there. But it's kind of crazy, um how it 1:08:52.439 --> 1:08:54.120 all worked out. It was like a meant to be, 1:08:54.800 --> 1:08:59.040 UM saying. Patrick Smith started Mountain Smith, which was like 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:02.760 a backpacking company, um years ago and he sold it, 1:09:03.000 --> 1:09:07.240 um and then started too far through and he Patrick 1:09:07.320 --> 1:09:09.559 said that he had three daughters, so he never had 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:13.280 somebody to really take over the throne, so to speak. Um, 1:09:13.360 --> 1:09:16.880 the three daughters didn't hunt. Their husband's been really hunting. Um. 1:09:16.920 --> 1:09:20.320 I was reviewing a bunch of gear and backpacks and 1:09:20.360 --> 1:09:24.120 I guess it's eight years ago, No, six or seven 1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:27.400 years ago, now, whatever it was. I walked in finally 1:09:27.439 --> 1:09:29.800 got ahold of Patrick to test out some packs. We 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:34.080 started talking and helped him with some designs and um, 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:36.040 they kind of brought me on as I was working 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:40.679 construction at the time. Is like a consultant slash sales rep. 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:43.040 Kind of a position where I was making a little 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:47.680 bit of money. And um, why I'm with the you know, 1:09:47.720 --> 1:09:51.640 the CEO and president now, um, and he took me on. 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:54.559 I looked at him like a father and he One 1:09:54.600 --> 1:09:56.960 of the unique things with Patrick is one of my 1:09:57.080 --> 1:09:59.719 job descriptions as I will spend a hundred and fifty 1:09:59.800 --> 1:10:02.679 nine the year in the wilderness without a doubt, without 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:07.720 fail um. And one of that things is that he 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:13.360 he had pressed upon several things upon me. One was 1:10:13.479 --> 1:10:16.400 made in America, staying made in America. No matter what, 1:10:16.920 --> 1:10:19.599 we will always be American made, not just American made, 1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:25.200 but American components, American everything. Two was lead by example 1:10:25.880 --> 1:10:30.479 in by our customers, meaning I want you to be 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:32.920 the fittest you can possibly be. I want you to 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:35.599 be in the field as much as you possibly can. 1:10:35.680 --> 1:10:38.200 I want you packing out as many animals as you can. 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:41.320 And I want you near death at least fifteen times 1:10:41.320 --> 1:10:43.920 a year to know what gear we can design to 1:10:43.960 --> 1:10:47.000 make you not near death the next year. Now, how 1:10:47.000 --> 1:10:49.080 often do you walk into a job like that where 1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:51.640 I lived to live in the woods, and then the 1:10:51.680 --> 1:10:55.880 guy that becomes your father slash boss says, hearing your 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:57.960 acts staying out there a hundred fifty nights a year 1:10:58.840 --> 1:11:04.240 without fail Well, I mean so people are like you know, 1:11:04.360 --> 1:11:06.280 that's one of the things why people listen to me 1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:11.840 with gear is I mean, there's so much that I mean, 1:11:11.880 --> 1:11:14.560 I for me a hundred fifty nine the years the 1:11:14.680 --> 1:11:17.439 light year. Um, that's I mean, I've I've hit two 1:11:17.439 --> 1:11:21.639 twenty a few times and uh and uh you learn 1:11:21.680 --> 1:11:23.200 a lot when you're out there, and you learn a 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:26.479 lot about designing your product. And so that's been a 1:11:26.560 --> 1:11:30.240 huge thing that he ingrained in my brain. And and 1:11:30.520 --> 1:11:32.559 you know, hopefully when I can't walk anymore, I'm going 1:11:32.600 --> 1:11:35.839 to pass this down to Frank, you know, my my partner, 1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:38.760 and crime where you can do it to these younger Yeah. 1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:41.720 I mean there's a lot of things there that are interesting. One, 1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:44.800 that's the dream job for anybody likes to go hunt 1:11:44.880 --> 1:11:48.360 and hike. And do you feel like back packing back 1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:51.680 country honey, whatever you want to describe that is was 1:11:51.720 --> 1:11:53.679 always part of your DNA and that's why you got 1:11:53.720 --> 1:11:56.320 there or did you at some point learn, you know, 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:59.559 go from away from your redneck ways and just become 1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:03.560 dial Well I I say that, man. I never was 1:12:03.600 --> 1:12:06.640 a gun hunter, really, Um, I was when I was 1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:11.120 a kid. Um there was a my when I was fourteen. 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:14.639 I it was the Youth Conservation Corps, something you did 1:12:14.640 --> 1:12:17.519 with the Forest Service. And I joined that, which is 1:12:17.600 --> 1:12:20.639 usually cleaning out porter parties and cleaning up state parks 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:24.120 and the people on the trail crew knew me and 1:12:24.240 --> 1:12:27.160 asked if they could what paperwork they need to fill 1:12:27.160 --> 1:12:30.160 out to get this kid, meaning me on this trail crew. 1:12:31.040 --> 1:12:35.080 Well that changed my life forever because I hyped ten 1:12:35.160 --> 1:12:37.240 miles a day as a minimum, and all I did 1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:39.439 was carried a cross cut song and acts over my 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:43.160 shoulders a fourteen year old kid cleaning off wilderness trails. 1:12:43.280 --> 1:12:46.599 Um in the midst of that, with my red neck 1:12:46.800 --> 1:12:49.599 upbringing is a you know, like dad driving around drinking, 1:12:49.880 --> 1:12:53.080 you know, basically shooting it out of the window. Um 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:55.360 As I hyped in there's all these deer that I 1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:58.880 never saw, you know what I mean? Like my there's 1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:02.600 animals ever to we're back here. Well, so at an 1:13:02.600 --> 1:13:07.040 extremely young age, I learned how to backpack. And I mean, 1:13:08.400 --> 1:13:11.320 you know from from experts. Guys. These guys climbed everest. 1:13:11.760 --> 1:13:13.880 This was their side job, right, this is what they 1:13:13.920 --> 1:13:17.000 did to make money so they could go climb, so 1:13:17.080 --> 1:13:21.000 they could do whatever. And so I learned that extremely young. 1:13:21.040 --> 1:13:23.160 I did that all through high school for three months 1:13:23.200 --> 1:13:25.720 in my summer months. And the one that made me 1:13:25.760 --> 1:13:27.720 a bit more of a man because I'm swinging in 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:30.280 an accident, you know how cross cuts on my hand 1:13:30.320 --> 1:13:34.240 it we had double buck and single buck saws and uh. 1:13:34.400 --> 1:13:37.120 Once I did that, that kind of trance and I 1:13:37.120 --> 1:13:39.080 and I was in the army for a while um 1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:40.920 as well, and that just taught me how to get 1:13:40.920 --> 1:13:44.479 beat up UM a little bit better. But all of 1:13:44.479 --> 1:13:48.240 those things combined the moment I got out of the military, well, 1:13:48.280 --> 1:13:50.280 I got fat first, but then I got super fit 1:13:50.400 --> 1:13:52.680 and all I could do with backpack. All I did 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:56.720 was backpack like over. No mountain was too high, no 1:13:56.920 --> 1:13:59.240 lake was too far. We pack and flow to be 1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:01.559 you know we you know, I mean on a very 1:14:01.920 --> 1:14:05.280 I was broke as a joke, but I always backpack 1:14:05.360 --> 1:14:09.200 hunted and so that was like just my thing. And 1:14:09.240 --> 1:14:12.280 then as time went on, I was seeing some videos 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:16.280 from Cameron and south Cox and and backpack hunting wasn't 1:14:16.320 --> 1:14:19.559 really known. Now backpack hunting is known, and you can't 1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:22.840 you know, I mean, you run into people constantly on 1:14:22.880 --> 1:14:26.280 the wilderness. So this job for me, I mean, Patrick's 1:14:26.320 --> 1:14:28.080 told me many times, he's like, You're the son I 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:31.479 never had, and really a godsend for my family because 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:35.720 you or everything I needed to take over from the company. 1:14:36.160 --> 1:14:39.000 Now I'm a bit wilder probably than they wanted. But 1:14:40.520 --> 1:14:43.600 you know it was a perfect fit. Um so it 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:47.760 was great. Off there for a minute, but I love it. 1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:50.200 It was great. I can hear you can hear it 1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:51.760 your voice, man, you can hear it. You love it. 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:54.880 And that's freaking as somebody who you know, any product 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:57.640 of any company, that's that's all. It really matters that 1:14:57.720 --> 1:14:59.880 the people making it love the thing that it's made 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:03.639 or and that comes through and your packs for sure. 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:06.439 How much has it packs changed over the years that 1:15:06.479 --> 1:15:07.880 you've been doing and how much do you feel like 1:15:07.920 --> 1:15:10.280 they will change it? I can I can tell you 1:15:10.360 --> 1:15:12.080 right now. The pack I used to hold it. I 1:15:12.200 --> 1:15:14.400 used to carry an old army rucksack to the deer 1:15:14.400 --> 1:15:18.200 stand when I was sixteen, and now it's a lot 1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:21.000 different than that. But how are they changing. Well, they've 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:23.280 changed a lot in the sense of the bags and 1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:27.360 the materials are changing. The the platform that Patrick started 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:31.040 with us far the suspension, I've changed some of the 1:15:31.760 --> 1:15:36.280 design that the bases there. Um really, I've changed materials. 1:15:36.320 --> 1:15:38.839 I've changed some of the connection points. The base design 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:42.800 hasn't changed at all. The bags have changed, the materials changing, 1:15:42.840 --> 1:15:46.400 I mean technology right, like hydrophobic foam so it doesn't 1:15:46.439 --> 1:15:50.800 think as bad waterproof material, tougher material that will last longer. 1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:54.599 You know, the the never ending rabbit hole of lighter 1:15:54.640 --> 1:15:58.080 weight UM. You know, we're able to push things far 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:01.360 farther and farther UM, which is really one of my 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:03.800 my job when we go off the deep end on lightweight, 1:16:04.240 --> 1:16:07.760 pushing something to as lightweight as possible. You know, that's 1:16:07.800 --> 1:16:10.080 my job to go pack out twenty three animals a 1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:13.360 year to see can it take it? Right? Like we 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:18.000 just came out with a new crazy lightweight frame and uh, 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:20.200 you know that was the main job is I had 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:23.839 to have fifty animals in that frame in a minimum 1:16:23.880 --> 1:16:27.760 amount of miles. That's how we testing um before it 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:30.320 would even pass muster to go on to the next level. 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:33.559 Most companies don't do that ship anymore, man. I mean 1:16:33.600 --> 1:16:35.840 they designed it in an office and go hike ground 1:16:35.960 --> 1:16:39.880 and that's it. Well, you know, as we change these things, 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:42.760 they also have to be vetted and so next time 1:16:42.760 --> 1:16:44.519 in the field and boots on the ground. I probably 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:46.360 be able to walk when I'm sixty, but damn, I 1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:49.080 had a lot of fun testament stuff out in the meantime. 1:16:49.120 --> 1:16:52.920 You know, yeah, I just keep thinking about your gig 1:16:52.960 --> 1:16:57.240 and your minimums. Your mandatory minimum hiking hours is just 1:16:57.400 --> 1:17:02.639 freaking badass, is It's I just ordered some boots from 1:17:02.640 --> 1:17:05.800 a boot company and they sent me a set for 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:08.439 free to try to review, and I fell in love 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:10.160 with him. And I called I said I need two 1:17:10.160 --> 1:17:13.120 more sets, and they're like, well you mean, I'm like, oh, 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:15.479 I'll burn through these things in no time. They're like, dude, 1:17:15.479 --> 1:17:17.559 it's one of our most durable boots. And I said, yeah, 1:17:17.640 --> 1:17:20.000 you know again, so I need two more sets. I 1:17:20.040 --> 1:17:22.200 don't care what to pay for him. I need him 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:25.920 because I'm putting that many miles on the ground in 1:17:26.040 --> 1:17:30.680 one season, the astronomical amount. And uh so yeah, I 1:17:30.720 --> 1:17:35.040 mean it's definitely some crazy standards with Patrick just putting 1:17:35.040 --> 1:17:39.320 me up against, but it keeps me out of the office. Yeah, So, 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:41.679 how are it like people out there that aren't aren't 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:45.439 hitting your minimums? I think, man, just another rabbit hole. 1:17:45.479 --> 1:17:47.280 I was just thinking about guys that I know that 1:17:47.400 --> 1:17:51.680 have spent that many days in a mountain during your 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:53.920 maybe Remy Warrens another guy who would say like a 1:17:54.040 --> 1:17:56.519 two just but he's a guide and so he's not 1:17:56.560 --> 1:17:58.280 it's not probably not in the same way that you're 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:02.320 doing it, but just just it's amazing and the knowledge. 1:18:02.320 --> 1:18:04.320 I'm glad you're sharing all that knowledge, man, because that's 1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:08.120 that's important stuff. Because you're lucky. I'm sure you know, lucky. 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:09.880 You get to do what you do. You earn earn 1:18:09.920 --> 1:18:13.160 your place at Kafaro, and it's it's just badass to 1:18:13.320 --> 1:18:16.280 hear that. Is there any suggestions you've give the people 1:18:16.280 --> 1:18:19.400 for packs of the guys who are just looking to 1:18:19.439 --> 1:18:21.599 get into it and go out west, is there one 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:24.000 thing they ought to look for when they're selecting a pack. 1:18:25.280 --> 1:18:27.600 I mean, I think it's the same as boots. You 1:18:27.640 --> 1:18:31.080 need to make sure one they fit. Um, you can't 1:18:31.160 --> 1:18:33.080 walk in I mean I hate say you can't walk 1:18:33.240 --> 1:18:36.840 into a Capella's or a bass Pro or source of 1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:40.360 warehouse or whatever. Um and get a pack that's really 1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:43.960 fitted properly, which is hugely important for backpack hunting. So 1:18:44.560 --> 1:18:46.280 you want to make sure and talk to somebody that 1:18:46.320 --> 1:18:49.800 actually knows what they're doing. UM, make sure you get 1:18:49.800 --> 1:18:53.200 the packs fitted correctly. Make sure you get the proper size. 1:18:53.640 --> 1:18:56.000 You know and understand how the pack works. You understand 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:59.440 what a load lifter is. Um understand how the compressions 1:18:59.479 --> 1:19:02.840 straps work, how it connects, how to adjust it, all 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.559 those different things. And it's no different if you buy 1:19:05.600 --> 1:19:07.599 a camera and you keep it on Ottawa all the time. 1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:10.360 It'll work, but you're not going to get the most 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:12.080 out of it you can. So you want to make 1:19:12.120 --> 1:19:14.840 sure you know it's fitted correctly, that you get the 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:18.600 most out of it, because it leaves you more comfortable, happier, 1:19:19.080 --> 1:19:21.960 more longevity, and able to bounce right back when you're 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:25.240 done with your hunt rather than being bloody, beat up 1:19:25.280 --> 1:19:27.719 and in pain. And that's the same way with boots. 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:29.639 I mean you brought boots up in the same way. 1:19:30.720 --> 1:19:32.800 I mean you get a boot that doesn't fit, it 1:19:32.800 --> 1:19:35.400 will make your life help. So you want to make 1:19:35.400 --> 1:19:38.040 sure the same way with a pack. What's what's your 1:19:38.040 --> 1:19:41.000 boot of choice right now? Oh man? I was a 1:19:41.080 --> 1:19:45.840 scarper guy forever and then I just um han Fog 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:49.439 sent me a set of mockra Um and you want 1:19:49.479 --> 1:19:52.040 to talk about I think I might make love to that, 1:19:52.080 --> 1:19:55.280 but I want to put it on. Immediately. I looked 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:58.959 at my fiance it was like, this boot is amazing. 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:03.240 The next day we did Cardio with sixty five pounds 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:05.880 and not far. But it's flew over a mile straight up, 1:20:05.880 --> 1:20:08.120 and it's a thousand foot game. But you know I'm 1:20:08.120 --> 1:20:10.960 gonna get heel rubbed with that. I'm gonna have arch problems. 1:20:10.960 --> 1:20:12.599 I mean, that's where you're really gonna see it. Boot 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:15.479 not broken it at all, flew up the mountain the 1:20:15.600 --> 1:20:19.400 almost record time. And uh, I just I can't say 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:22.679 enough about that specific boot. But I like a stiffer boot. 1:20:23.280 --> 1:20:26.479 So if you're wann't a really flexible one, that's not 1:20:26.560 --> 1:20:28.799 the boot for you. Spell the name of it. I've 1:20:28.840 --> 1:20:32.600 never heard that before. Um han vob So it's h 1:20:32.720 --> 1:20:37.439 A n w A g um makaro, which is m 1:20:37.439 --> 1:20:40.559 A k A r A. I see you, all right, 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:42.040 I'm looking. I gotta look him up now. This is 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.880 a kind of boot guy that I am too to 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:46.920 see it. You're kind of in the built in the 1:20:47.000 --> 1:20:53.559 same is the Scarpolsportiva Salewa, same region. And I mean, 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:56.160 I don't you know, there's a big you know, as 1:20:56.200 --> 1:21:00.439 far as boots go. Um, I don't know. I used 1:21:00.439 --> 1:21:01.960 to when I didn't know what I was doing, going 1:21:02.040 --> 1:21:04.479 and buy a quote unquote hunting boot, which is, in 1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:08.080 my opinion, one of the worst things you can do. Um. 1:21:08.120 --> 1:21:09.760 You know, you you really want to go to a 1:21:09.800 --> 1:21:13.719 mountaineering store and you probably want to buy a backpacking boot. 1:21:13.960 --> 1:21:15.920 I mean, nothing wrong with the camera boot that goes 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:19.360 up to your knee, but for backpacking' probably not gonna 1:21:19.360 --> 1:21:22.679 be super happy. So you go to an ex boot. Yeah, 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:24.000 that's what I mean when we went. I went to 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.919 Nepal last year and that's the first time I discovered 1:21:28.000 --> 1:21:29.880 Lost Portiva. I mean, you know, but a new about 1:21:29.920 --> 1:21:33.000 scarpor I had seen a bunch of guys, seen a 1:21:33.040 --> 1:21:35.280 couple of guys in Kodyak wearing scarpas and was interested. 1:21:35.320 --> 1:21:38.760 I had worn uh mindels for a while and had 1:21:38.840 --> 1:21:41.799 just got some crispies. It was just kind of feeling 1:21:41.800 --> 1:21:43.680 through those. But then you start to get into, like 1:21:43.680 --> 1:21:46.960 you said, you break into the that mountaineering world and 1:21:47.000 --> 1:21:49.240 you start to learn about loss Fartiva and learn about 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:50.800 some of those brands. So I got a pair of 1:21:50.840 --> 1:21:54.840 Aspartiva approach boots for for Nepal and that kind of 1:21:54.840 --> 1:21:57.679 switched on the next level of thinking when it comes 1:21:57.680 --> 1:21:59.800 to what's on your foot, I mean a lot of this. 1:22:00.080 --> 1:22:03.639 That's when when I need advice for backpacking. Very few 1:22:03.640 --> 1:22:05.320 people do I go to, you know, I go to 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:09.840 those guys that climb everything, um, big wall climbers like um. 1:22:10.600 --> 1:22:14.559 I mean, those guys know they're ship right. So when 1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:17.640 I need like a state of the art gear assessment 1:22:17.720 --> 1:22:20.760 that's above and beyond what I have, I need a 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:23.559 guy that's been closer to desk than I have. Right, 1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:26.120 it's pushing the limits far beyond where I am. And 1:22:26.840 --> 1:22:31.080 guys that climb are a good a good a good 1:22:31.120 --> 1:22:34.040 bounce back, and so I usually go down. I have 1:22:34.120 --> 1:22:37.160 a friends at the local mountaineering store, and you know, 1:22:37.240 --> 1:22:40.080 I bounced it off of them. I asked them questions 1:22:40.080 --> 1:22:42.639 and they and I'm going to get position. I get 1:22:42.720 --> 1:22:46.439 gear a year before anyone else even sees it on 1:22:46.520 --> 1:22:50.040 the market, like whether it be clothing from backpacking companies 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:52.960 or hunting companies. You know, I get gears so far 1:22:53.000 --> 1:22:57.280 ahead in the testing phases, which is great, um play 1:22:57.320 --> 1:22:59.519 or be boots or anything else. And so I get 1:22:59.800 --> 1:23:02.599 I gets really in depth looks at gear before anyone else's. 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:05.639 It's a great position to be into them gear. Yeah, 1:23:05.640 --> 1:23:07.639 I mean, that's that's a great advice for people that 1:23:08.200 --> 1:23:09.720 you know, like I said, packs and boots are the 1:23:09.760 --> 1:23:12.040 two things that I've there. If you're not a pack company, 1:23:12.080 --> 1:23:14.000 don't make packs. If you're not a boot company, don't 1:23:14.040 --> 1:23:17.080 make boots. I've said that for for as long as 1:23:17.120 --> 1:23:19.200 that as long as I've kind of been trying to 1:23:19.240 --> 1:23:21.800 get serious about this whole thing, and I believe that 1:23:21.840 --> 1:23:24.639 whole hardly. And that's that's a great advice for people, 1:23:24.680 --> 1:23:27.000 like if you're out there and there's some experts in 1:23:27.040 --> 1:23:28.519 your town, if you live in a mountain town and 1:23:28.520 --> 1:23:31.160 there's a mountaineering store somewhere, or even for me, I 1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:34.880 think if I'm getting, you know, last minute supplies for 1:23:34.960 --> 1:23:37.559 a backpack trip, I go to r a I before 1:23:37.560 --> 1:23:41.280 I go to Cabela's every freaking day. Um, just just 1:23:41.360 --> 1:23:44.240 for the general backpack and stuff that they have, whether 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:48.679 it's civil lightweight silverware, or you know, anything that goes 1:23:48.760 --> 1:23:51.439 with being in the in the back country. I think 1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:54.160 there's just better quality stuff in that in that outdoor 1:23:54.360 --> 1:23:58.720 reck space when it comes to back country gear, right, No, No, 1:23:58.880 --> 1:24:02.559 I I agree, Um, I mean the clothing is the 1:24:02.640 --> 1:24:05.639 same way. I mean, anyone that says any hunting clothing 1:24:05.760 --> 1:24:08.559 right now wasn't copied off of backpacking company's a liar, 1:24:08.800 --> 1:24:12.640 Like it's just straight up how it is. Um and 1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:17.719 of course my opinion, but the Patagonia are one fleece hoodie. 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:21.040 I can name seven hoodies on the market and camera 1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:23.720 right now. They look a whole lot like the Patagonia 1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:26.800 are one police Is that wrong? Is that bad? No? 1:24:26.960 --> 1:24:29.800 And it's not bad, but a lot. I mean, all 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:32.599 the clothing we're wearing, this covered in camo was copied 1:24:32.640 --> 1:24:37.240 off of a backpacking company, whether it be mamut Ore, Carrick, Um, 1:24:37.360 --> 1:24:40.280 you know whoever, Patagonia, it was copied off one of 1:24:40.360 --> 1:24:43.519 those based backpacking companies. For the most part, there's not 1:24:43.600 --> 1:24:47.000 a lot of again, in my opinion, there's not a 1:24:47.000 --> 1:24:49.560 lot of new way of thinking. When it comes in 1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:54.360 the hunting world, it's usually copied off of a backpacking company. Yeah, yeah, 1:24:54.800 --> 1:24:56.640 a boost the same way. I mean, you know, I 1:24:56.720 --> 1:25:01.280 wouldn't if I was going on a ten day backhuntry 1:25:01.280 --> 1:25:04.160 trip in the Missouri Breaks. There's not a whole lot 1:25:04.160 --> 1:25:07.120 of stuff serious gear at Cabela's that I would want 1:25:07.120 --> 1:25:09.559 to buy. And I've tried, and I've went there and 1:25:09.600 --> 1:25:11.880 it's chopped around. I'm thinking, Yeah, if I'm sitting in 1:25:11.920 --> 1:25:15.120 a tree stand Jason Dear, There's a lot here that 1:25:15.160 --> 1:25:17.760 I could could use. But when you're really talking about 1:25:17.800 --> 1:25:20.200 getting back there and needing your stuff to work, it's 1:25:20.360 --> 1:25:23.200 it's tough, and almost in the hunt community almost be 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:24.920 embarrassed to say you shop at are I all the time, 1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:27.040 but I do. Yeah, oh yeah. There was just a 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:30.200 huge post about r e I because you have very 1:25:30.240 --> 1:25:33.240 anti guns dating in a bunch of other stuff, and 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:37.519 I try not to get I definitely talked to I'm 1:25:37.560 --> 1:25:40.240 an anti Jet Boiled guy because I've not had great 1:25:41.880 --> 1:25:44.639 vibes back from the higher ups I've talked to at 1:25:44.720 --> 1:25:48.599 Jet Boil about being pro hunting, and so for example 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:52.120 with that, I do do some background checks. I try 1:25:52.120 --> 1:25:55.599 to support hunting friendly companies. Primus is a prime example. 1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:58.600 I try to support Primus in MSR as much as 1:25:58.680 --> 1:26:01.919 I possibly can. The same is Scarpa and Hanvog because 1:26:02.439 --> 1:26:06.320 they have guiding outfitter programs for discounts. Primus is not 1:26:06.439 --> 1:26:09.799 afraid to support hunting. Convog is the same way UM 1:26:10.640 --> 1:26:13.160 and so those companies I try to support even though 1:26:13.200 --> 1:26:16.600 they're not a hunting company, they are pro hunting and 1:26:16.640 --> 1:26:18.640 they're not afraid of that and that's important to me 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:22.080 as well. Um, you know, and so I tried it. 1:26:22.160 --> 1:26:24.280 I try to I try not to review a lot 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:26.680 of gear that's shipping on hunting, that's for sure. I 1:26:26.680 --> 1:26:29.439 try to focus on you know, it's a backpacking company, 1:26:29.439 --> 1:26:32.400 that it's one that is pro hunting or doesn't crap 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:35.519 on hunting. Yeah, and I think Black Diamond has been 1:26:36.360 --> 1:26:38.479 I used to work with somebody that was working at 1:26:38.520 --> 1:26:42.479 Black Diamond and he described them as firmly anti hunting. 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:45.400 And I have several Black Diamond headlamps that I wear, 1:26:45.439 --> 1:26:47.200 and I've seen a lot of other hunters wearing Black 1:26:47.240 --> 1:26:51.000 Diamond headlamps or trekking poles or whatever. And Cabella sells 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:55.200 Black Diamond gear at some La Lana. I haven't looked 1:26:55.240 --> 1:26:58.519 into it to see if really how deeply anti hunting 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:00.559 they are, but I'm I'm sure just from is evidence 1:27:00.600 --> 1:27:02.880 that there's there's some seeds there. So yeah, I mean, 1:27:02.920 --> 1:27:05.200 just knowing that stuff as much as a consumer couldn't 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:09.160 know it, you're gonna know everything, but just understanding the 1:27:09.240 --> 1:27:12.880 dynamics there is important. And I'm not embarrassed were a 1:27:12.880 --> 1:27:16.360 Black Diamond headlamp, But next time I go to buy one, 1:27:16.360 --> 1:27:17.960 and it's not going to be a black diamond, that's 1:27:18.000 --> 1:27:20.960 for sure. Ye. No, no, I'm in the same same boat. 1:27:21.000 --> 1:27:23.280 And again I've had guys say, hey, you know you 1:27:23.360 --> 1:27:26.120 wear prawn as I own pants, and we were told 1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:28.400 they were anti hunting, and I'm like, well, they have 1:27:28.600 --> 1:27:31.639 doing the best here, like don't set gold right of trying. 1:27:31.760 --> 1:27:34.360 You know, I gotta trying to have to let people 1:27:34.400 --> 1:27:37.040 know what a good discount is on pants too, and 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:39.960 they're cheap, so take it easy on me. But yeah, no, 1:27:40.040 --> 1:27:42.400 I mean I definitely agree and trying to do the 1:27:42.479 --> 1:27:45.920 same things. And the jet Boil thing, that's funny. People 1:27:45.960 --> 1:27:48.439 are sending emails saying, hey, this is their response, and 1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:52.040 we asked them, like, well they like hunters money, I'm 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:55.200 sure that's their response. But I mean I talked to 1:27:55.240 --> 1:27:57.880 him with the O. R Show, and believe me, they 1:27:57.880 --> 1:28:00.600 were not grow hunting at the O R Show. And 1:28:00.680 --> 1:28:03.240 these weren't sales reps. These were very high ups in 1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:07.200 the Jet Boiler and so I'm like, hey, ms are 1:28:07.439 --> 1:28:11.479 in primus, We'll tell you and without the doubt they 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:14.160 are not against hunting, and so I try to spread 1:28:14.200 --> 1:28:17.280 that word, like I said as well, yeah. I mean, 1:28:17.520 --> 1:28:19.840 and we've been talking about that. It's a good Another 1:28:19.840 --> 1:28:22.040 good talk to hit on is UM, I don't know 1:28:22.040 --> 1:28:24.439 how much you spent, you know, obviously it sounds like 1:28:24.479 --> 1:28:27.679 you spent a lot of time around that outdoor retailer crowd. 1:28:28.720 --> 1:28:30.840 And I just think I think it's important that we 1:28:31.479 --> 1:28:34.080 reach out to that crowd and connect with them, whether 1:28:34.120 --> 1:28:37.960 it's on public lands or gear or whatever that whatever 1:28:38.000 --> 1:28:41.599 the tie that binds is, I think going forward for hunters, 1:28:41.640 --> 1:28:44.400 that's going to be a huge one. Um, what have 1:28:44.479 --> 1:28:46.400 you in your work in that world? What have you seen? 1:28:46.479 --> 1:28:49.280 I mean, in my work, I'll tell you I've seen 1:28:49.360 --> 1:28:52.479 nothing but really acceptance. A few I got in a 1:28:52.479 --> 1:28:54.400 few scenarios where there's some ignorance that I had this 1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:56.320 straight now, But once I got it straightened, it was 1:28:56.360 --> 1:28:59.240 all good. Um. But in my work and in that industry, 1:28:59.280 --> 1:29:02.559 it seems like people are curious about hunting. They don't 1:29:02.600 --> 1:29:06.000 really understand it, but they're not completely against it if 1:29:06.000 --> 1:29:10.280 it's put in the right light. Don't I agree a percent? 1:29:10.360 --> 1:29:12.519 I mean, it's those long lines where we're talking about. 1:29:12.600 --> 1:29:16.080 I think that you know when you when you when 1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:18.840 you're at the doorway. UM, to get somebody to let 1:29:18.840 --> 1:29:21.080 you in their house. You know, you don't want to 1:29:21.080 --> 1:29:22.800 show up but the door with a beer and a 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:25.320 gun in your hand. You show up the flowers and 1:29:25.400 --> 1:29:27.719 some cupcakes, right you You want to get in the doorway. 1:29:27.760 --> 1:29:32.080 And so when there's that conversation, um, and I have 1:29:32.160 --> 1:29:34.280 to deal with it, I'm sure as much as you do, well, 1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:36.640 you're not as much for quite a bit, whether it 1:29:36.720 --> 1:29:40.600 be you know, people selling us material or buckles or 1:29:40.800 --> 1:29:45.080 sewers or whatever. Um, you know, they find out where 1:29:45.120 --> 1:29:48.200 a honey company. I want to intrigue them and I 1:29:48.240 --> 1:29:50.960 want them to see what we're doing, be in goal. 1:29:51.040 --> 1:29:52.599 And so when I call him on a SAT phone 1:29:52.600 --> 1:29:56.479 because I'm about to place a dollar on material material 1:29:56.600 --> 1:29:58.960 order on the side pop of the mountains, I want 1:29:59.040 --> 1:30:01.360 them to fill intrigue. Did holy cow, this guy called 1:30:01.360 --> 1:30:03.479 me on a SAT phone. And so when I get 1:30:03.479 --> 1:30:05.400 back and send them photos, they're a cooling ship. We 1:30:05.400 --> 1:30:08.600 were talking to him right there and they understand and 1:30:09.000 --> 1:30:12.719 not just feed them the two percent kill shot picture. 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:14.559 At the end of it, I want them to know 1:30:14.640 --> 1:30:17.280 the whole thing of what we're doing, what we're about, 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:20.519 what we stand for. And so it's it's been very 1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:23.200 well received with who I've dealt with, um, you know 1:30:23.240 --> 1:30:26.160 on my innes things. That's good. Yeah, me too. And 1:30:26.200 --> 1:30:29.200 YETI I mean, like I said, we've saying before. I mean, 1:30:29.240 --> 1:30:31.880 we deal with a lot of top low athletes in 1:30:31.920 --> 1:30:34.720 that world and a lot of companies. I had a 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:37.320 conversation with some folks at Patagonia where they weren't really 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:40.679 aware of Pittman Robertson. They weren't aware of how hunters 1:30:40.680 --> 1:30:43.320 get back to conservation. I mean, they were aware that 1:30:43.360 --> 1:30:45.439 we say that that that was one of our talking 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:48.200 points of why hunting is is a positive thing, but 1:30:48.280 --> 1:30:51.799 they kind of rolled their eyes at the oxymoronic nature 1:30:51.840 --> 1:30:54.800 of like killing is good for the ones that are 1:30:54.840 --> 1:30:58.240 all left after we've shot the ones we want. Um. 1:30:58.280 --> 1:31:00.599 But once we you know, once I gave some depth 1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:03.280 and breath in the conversation, they were all cool with it, 1:31:03.439 --> 1:31:07.280 and they were and not apologetic, but understanding of where 1:31:07.320 --> 1:31:10.600 they where the misconceptions were in the beginning. So I 1:31:10.680 --> 1:31:13.120 just think, and I think that's a huge I mean, 1:31:13.120 --> 1:31:17.280 what's an eighty seven billion dollar communities You're talking about 1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:19.639 everybody that goes outside that doesn't have a fishing pole 1:31:19.760 --> 1:31:22.320 or a gun in their hands or a bow in 1:31:22.360 --> 1:31:24.519 their hands. So they're they're a huge crowd that I 1:31:24.560 --> 1:31:28.040 think is maybe seen as generally anti hunting, and then 1:31:28.080 --> 1:31:31.479 they're not. I don't think they are as a croup. Yeah, No, 1:31:31.520 --> 1:31:33.840 I mean I and I get I wish what you 1:31:33.960 --> 1:31:39.200 do is far more when you're talking about with outdoor personalities, 1:31:39.320 --> 1:31:44.200 is a much higher gets in what I'm dealing with, Um, 1:31:44.280 --> 1:31:46.840 you know what I we we we we customate packs 1:31:46.880 --> 1:31:49.760 for women. Mountain climb was far more than men because 1:31:49.760 --> 1:31:52.559 they can't get them backpacking pack to victim. So I 1:31:52.600 --> 1:31:54.880 can only imagine what you're dealing with on that side 1:31:54.920 --> 1:31:58.120 of things as far as the different personalities. And I've 1:31:58.160 --> 1:32:02.400 only watched Conrad at Jimmy on TV right about Jimmy 1:32:02.400 --> 1:32:05.120 wants at the local mountaineering store. But I mean, you 1:32:05.120 --> 1:32:08.040 want to talk about I think Jimmy has two friends 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:11.519 and one point two million followers. Yeah, obviously a lot 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:13.679 of people follow him, you know what I mean? Yeah, 1:32:14.000 --> 1:32:16.840 for sure now, and I've you know, I know that 1:32:17.400 --> 1:32:19.920 we were able to introduce guy like Mark c Cat 1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:23.599 to Conrad Anchor when they both were here in Austin 1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:26.840 for one of our ambassadors Summits and next thing, I know, Uh, 1:32:26.920 --> 1:32:32.200 Conrad's taken seecat climate um and it's cool man. And 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:35.200 Conrad is the first person to you know, in my 1:32:35.360 --> 1:32:37.559 brief encounters with him and just you know very he's 1:32:37.560 --> 1:32:40.400 a very professional, quiet guy. But I think he'd probably 1:32:40.479 --> 1:32:42.400 the first person to question hunting but also the first 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:44.840 person to accept it if he did it the right way. So, 1:32:44.880 --> 1:32:47.400 I mean that's in in Conrad Anchor is a freaking 1:32:47.560 --> 1:32:52.400 legend um and a leader in that space and pretty 1:32:52.400 --> 1:32:55.160 outspoken when it comes to that stuff. So I would 1:32:55.200 --> 1:32:56.880 just use him as a good example of somebody who's 1:32:56.880 --> 1:33:00.120 open to it. We just presented the right way and 1:33:00.120 --> 1:33:01.840 and we'll get it done. Next thing, we know, we'll 1:33:01.840 --> 1:33:04.679 have a bunch of allies on on that side of things. 1:33:04.720 --> 1:33:07.160 That's a pretty influential group of folks that were Patty going, 1:33:07.200 --> 1:33:10.439 you're where north Face or or where our tereks or 1:33:10.479 --> 1:33:14.600 whatever that might be. Yeah, no, no, I agree for 1:33:14.600 --> 1:33:16.360 for sure. I mean we'd we have a couple of 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:18.360 guys that are big wall climbers that hunt with us. 1:33:19.280 --> 1:33:22.479 Fred Baum is one of them, and he never hunted 1:33:22.479 --> 1:33:25.680 a day in his life and big wall climber, and 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:27.760 I mean he's a freaking nature right as far as 1:33:27.840 --> 1:33:31.360 you know, as far as physically, and he just woke 1:33:31.439 --> 1:33:33.439 up one day and decided he wanted to bow hunt. 1:33:34.880 --> 1:33:36.439 You know, the guy was hard to kill the two 1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:38.559 d and three inch mule deer, his first mule deer, 1:33:38.600 --> 1:33:42.719 eleven miles in um. Obviously he had the skill set 1:33:42.760 --> 1:33:45.040 to get back there and survive, and then you know, 1:33:45.080 --> 1:33:48.000 he could shoot bow enough to hit it. But he's 1:33:48.040 --> 1:33:49.760 got a pretty good grasp and in a lot of 1:33:49.800 --> 1:33:53.439 different industries. But it was amazing to talk to people 1:33:53.520 --> 1:33:56.120 like that and what got him going and kind of 1:33:56.120 --> 1:33:59.880 like Grogan the same way, like what sparked the intr 1:34:00.280 --> 1:34:02.920 And I think that could have changed dramatically if it 1:34:03.040 --> 1:34:06.280 was the entry into it was a piss pour one. 1:34:06.360 --> 1:34:08.640 But instead it was a good one. They heard what 1:34:08.680 --> 1:34:11.240 they wanted to hear, They got the spark interested in, 1:34:11.840 --> 1:34:14.280 got them interested in the one thing might do another. 1:34:14.320 --> 1:34:17.240 And that's a fine example of you know, once you're 1:34:17.240 --> 1:34:19.559 at the doorway and make sure you're you're inviting someone 1:34:19.560 --> 1:34:22.320 in and not scaring the ship at him. Yeah, well yeah, 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:25.080 I think that's that's the best way to describe the 1:34:25.080 --> 1:34:28.320 whole conversation. Man. And it's a good thing. I had 1:34:28.360 --> 1:34:31.800 something I was driving back here before we did the podcast, 1:34:31.960 --> 1:34:34.320 and one thing I wrote down that I wanted to 1:34:34.400 --> 1:34:38.160 ask you was what kind of crazy? There are different things? 1:34:38.200 --> 1:34:40.280 I imagine. This is what I imagined just from knowing 1:34:40.439 --> 1:34:43.320 from from what I've seen, is what kind of crazy 1:34:43.479 --> 1:34:46.439 inventions are crazy? Stuff is in your pack that other 1:34:46.439 --> 1:34:48.680 people aren't doing? Are things that over the years you 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:51.679 developed that that was something that's always in your pack. 1:34:51.840 --> 1:34:55.000 That's uh that you feel like unique or something that 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:58.120 other other guys aren't pulling off? Um, oh you've been 1:34:58.160 --> 1:35:01.360 like for packing list, Yeah, packing lists, some gear piece 1:35:01.400 --> 1:35:04.320 I know. I'm sure you've got some some idiosyncrasies, like 1:35:04.600 --> 1:35:06.160 in your gear list of things you do that are 1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:09.000 a little different. I mean, as far as game changers go, 1:35:09.200 --> 1:35:14.080 it's probably surprising. One of those things is Luco tape. Um, 1:35:14.280 --> 1:35:16.240 most people haven't heard of it. I got turned on 1:35:16.280 --> 1:35:20.000 into a mountain climber years ago. When you have foot problems, 1:35:20.080 --> 1:35:23.120 Luco cape will stay stuck to your foot for seven 1:35:23.200 --> 1:35:28.240 days in wet conditions. And if you ever have blisters 1:35:28.360 --> 1:35:31.400 or problems, I mean, you put a band aid on 1:35:31.479 --> 1:35:34.480 and wrap Luco tape over the top. You have problems 1:35:34.520 --> 1:35:37.640 and no more. Um so, I mean one of the 1:35:37.680 --> 1:35:39.960 things because I've had such problems with hell rubbed it 1:35:40.080 --> 1:35:44.479 is probably anti climactic as this is um Luco tape 1:35:44.760 --> 1:35:47.840 literally has been a game changer, you know for me, 1:35:48.160 --> 1:35:51.880 um it's been nine day difference, you know, as far 1:35:51.880 --> 1:35:56.679 as maybe other things that that, uh, I guess we're 1:35:57.120 --> 1:35:59.120 you know, game changers. Not to pimp out too far 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:02.720 too much, but uh we have a wood stove that 1:36:02.800 --> 1:36:06.720 waste two pounds twelve ounces. Yeah, you know, obviously you 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:09.760 have to have wood so to do it so above 1:36:09.800 --> 1:36:12.760 treeline it's not working. But having the ability to be 1:36:12.800 --> 1:36:17.160 able to have a heated sheltering, UM, that's another game changer. 1:36:17.280 --> 1:36:20.760 I've got a a kin foot long well it's not 1:36:20.840 --> 1:36:23.880 quite ten but tin foot long shelter. Um. You know, 1:36:23.920 --> 1:36:26.639 it's six ft wide that I can get a hundred 1:36:26.680 --> 1:36:30.000 degrees inside if I want to to dry out my gear. 1:36:30.080 --> 1:36:33.400 You know, that's been another huge benefit for me for 1:36:33.520 --> 1:36:37.880 longevity in the field. That's huge. We used I've used 1:36:37.880 --> 1:36:41.240 as before. I used one with Kulkraner and Kodiak a 1:36:41.280 --> 1:36:45.000 couple of Decembers ago when it was wins. What do 1:36:45.040 --> 1:36:46.880 we have I don't know. It was like eighty mile 1:36:46.960 --> 1:36:49.240 in our winds. I mean we were we were tucked 1:36:49.320 --> 1:36:51.280 up under this little ridge that we were blocked. We 1:36:51.320 --> 1:36:54.400 had eighty million our winds and we had negative ten 1:36:54.439 --> 1:36:58.080 degree temperatures hunting blacktailed deer. And and I think he said, 1:36:58.120 --> 1:37:00.320 you gave him that the stow. We had our ten 1:37:00.400 --> 1:37:02.240 and if we didn't have that thing, we'd have been screwed, 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:06.400 that's for sure. Yeah. Actually, cool Cole called me once 1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:09.120 because he said it wasn't burning correctly and whatever way 1:37:09.160 --> 1:37:11.920 he's burning, clouded the spark Er rester. Hell, it could 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:14.360 have been with you. He was calling me and who 1:37:14.400 --> 1:37:16.559 were on the phone, and he's like, it's smoking, and 1:37:17.400 --> 1:37:20.080 my dude, if you checked the spark Errester. And then 1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:21.960 immediately he was like, all right, we're good. I gotta 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:27.080 go alright, cool man, But I mean that's a huge 1:37:27.200 --> 1:37:29.320 you know, if you you witnessed it yourself, that's a 1:37:29.400 --> 1:37:33.920 huge Yeah. Um, you know after that, I mean again, 1:37:33.960 --> 1:37:37.760 I'm not trying to pimp out there an interchangeable knife. UM. 1:37:37.800 --> 1:37:40.839 I used one called the Tito. Get their tito, everyone 1:37:41.040 --> 1:37:45.920 pronounce it. Um. I don't understand guys have like the 1:37:45.920 --> 1:37:49.800 the knife handed down from their grandfather's grandfather down to him. 1:37:49.840 --> 1:37:52.680 But you know, having the ability to have an interchangeable 1:37:52.680 --> 1:37:57.000 blade knife from you're breaking down multiple animal another game changer, 1:37:57.280 --> 1:38:02.480 um you know for me. Um. Another one to communication 1:38:02.960 --> 1:38:08.120 that DOLORMI will mount garment in reach. Um that that's 1:38:08.160 --> 1:38:10.799 a lifesaver, especially when you're trying to run a business 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:12.640 from the side of the mountain. I also carry I 1:38:12.680 --> 1:38:15.600 also have a uh in a radium go which is 1:38:15.640 --> 1:38:19.960 a satellite hot spot basically, um, you know, And then 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:22.920 I can navigate from a watch. Now I do mostly 1:38:22.960 --> 1:38:27.000 manual lad now, um you know, so I really just 1:38:27.040 --> 1:38:29.680 need attended to good coordinate UTM grid to plot it 1:38:29.760 --> 1:38:31.759 out on the map. I don't have to carry a GPS. 1:38:31.840 --> 1:38:36.120 Well now I have a sun too, um traverse south. 1:38:36.240 --> 1:38:37.760 I used to run a four or one. But the 1:38:38.479 --> 1:38:42.000 point being is I can navigate so fast with such 1:38:42.040 --> 1:38:45.519 a small amount of weight. Has been another huge thing 1:38:45.560 --> 1:38:48.519 for me as well. Is there I'm just googling everything 1:38:48.640 --> 1:38:51.120 bookmark like what you're saying. We'll put a list out 1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:54.280 of this stuff, um in the blog post for this. 1:38:54.360 --> 1:38:57.280 But so the Tito knives, is there any reason you 1:38:57.400 --> 1:38:59.280 going with those? I mean, you're rolling with sixty A 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:02.639 blades just like the regular avalon. Are you going number 1:39:02.640 --> 1:39:06.599 twenty two s or what? I gotta keep it somewhat secret. 1:39:06.640 --> 1:39:10.519 But he's got a new blade that's more unbreakable. But yeah, 1:39:10.840 --> 1:39:13.639 so I usually carry sixty and twenty kes. I don't 1:39:13.680 --> 1:39:18.479 carry as many of the the caping blades that I 1:39:18.520 --> 1:39:23.600 do the others. But the I ran Piranha forever um, 1:39:23.720 --> 1:39:26.479 but the knife would get gunked up and it was 1:39:26.520 --> 1:39:29.120 a little bulkier. Well, the Tito I can actually put 1:39:29.120 --> 1:39:32.440 in my chest. I run a Laska Guy Creation chest harness. 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:34.280 There's a pocket in the back of it. I just 1:39:34.360 --> 1:39:37.240 leave the blade off and I have those flat blades 1:39:37.240 --> 1:39:39.559 in their packages, and I can run that knife flat 1:39:39.560 --> 1:39:42.200 in that chest. It's as flat as a blade of 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:45.680 a butter knife. Um. And then you know when I 1:39:45.720 --> 1:39:48.640 when I take something or you know, when something is 1:39:48.680 --> 1:39:51.519 on the ground, I just popped that blade on and 1:39:51.560 --> 1:39:54.240 so it weighs less. There's no gunk there, it's easy 1:39:54.320 --> 1:39:57.880 to clean. And again it's low profile. So that's one 1:39:57.880 --> 1:40:00.680 of the reasons left. That is the main reason that 1:40:00.800 --> 1:40:05.880 that title has been like a huge benefit in comparison 1:40:05.960 --> 1:40:09.120 to a foldable. Um, I this is just a flat piece, 1:40:09.120 --> 1:40:11.599 so it's super handy. Yeah, that's I'm saying. I'm just 1:40:11.600 --> 1:40:14.120 looking at that. Now I'm putting some stuff in a cart. 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.720 I'm gonna get that knife flux badass. Um. But that 1:40:17.800 --> 1:40:20.519 al Aska guy creations. What's different about that? I mean 1:40:20.600 --> 1:40:22.840 is that I mean it's changing a little bit of 1:40:22.880 --> 1:40:26.880 from a he started it all for one, I mean 1:40:26.920 --> 1:40:30.640 everyone's pretty much copied him. Um. But the reason I 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:33.400 like it. A lot of people don't like the They 1:40:33.439 --> 1:40:35.320 make a little profile one, but I wear a little 1:40:35.360 --> 1:40:38.880 bit bigger one. So try Ox Saint tablets. I carry 1:40:38.880 --> 1:40:43.040 an inside this Triox Saint tablets. I mean you can 1:40:43.080 --> 1:40:46.240 fart in it'll light that is huge. It'll burn in water. 1:40:46.800 --> 1:40:50.360 And so for a firestarter survival, I carry a Trax 1:40:50.360 --> 1:40:53.639 Saint tablet in that chest rig. I carry a petsel 1:40:53.760 --> 1:40:56.120 E light, which is this tiny headlamp that wass a 1:40:56.160 --> 1:40:59.200 half an hour. I don't know that I've ever changed 1:40:59.200 --> 1:41:01.240 the battery on one. I mean, you're not gonna be 1:41:01.880 --> 1:41:05.760 spotlighting from two out, but it'll keep you alive. I 1:41:05.880 --> 1:41:09.000 keep that in there. That the Tito knife or Title knife, 1:41:09.160 --> 1:41:12.840 some extra blades. I actually have a garment four oh one, 1:41:13.360 --> 1:41:16.799 um GPS watch that I carried in that as well, 1:41:17.439 --> 1:41:21.160 your tags basically in a flint and steel or a lighter. 1:41:21.880 --> 1:41:24.280 So I can survive for quite some time with what's 1:41:24.280 --> 1:41:28.000 in that chest rig And I also like the fact 1:41:28.040 --> 1:41:30.280 that it covers the lens caps of my optics. But 1:41:30.400 --> 1:41:32.719 I mean just the fact of what I have in there. 1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:36.400 If I get separated my from my pack, one I 1:41:36.439 --> 1:41:39.280 have a GPS unit either on my wrist or in 1:41:39.360 --> 1:41:42.200 my chest harness that's got my GPS mark. Then I 1:41:42.240 --> 1:41:44.040 don't know how many times I've dropped my pack when 1:41:44.040 --> 1:41:45.840 I stock the fox come in and one around like 1:41:45.840 --> 1:41:49.640 an idiot. I don't have that problem anymore. Um. And 1:41:49.680 --> 1:41:51.760 then obviously being able to break the animal down with 1:41:51.880 --> 1:41:54.160 what's on your chest is a big one. And being 1:41:54.160 --> 1:41:56.439 able to start a fire. Um. So you have some 1:41:56.520 --> 1:42:00.160 key essential things in that and that's that chester does 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:05.880 not leave my side at any time. In the optics 1:42:05.880 --> 1:42:08.680 are the least important part of it. Yeah, that's the 1:42:08.720 --> 1:42:11.559 first I've heard that that. I love that. I love 1:42:11.640 --> 1:42:13.880 that analogy. If you've got to have what's on your 1:42:13.960 --> 1:42:17.439 chest or what's in your pockets, even then it is 1:42:17.479 --> 1:42:19.919 more important to you. What what model I'm doing some shoppings. 1:42:20.000 --> 1:42:23.040 Everybody can just just bear with me. What model for 1:42:23.080 --> 1:42:28.240 that Alaska Gay Creations? Do you know it's called the grizzly. Yep, yeah, 1:42:28.240 --> 1:42:31.280 I see it here. Cool I have. I have a 1:42:31.320 --> 1:42:34.439 CoDIAK and a grizzly. Actually that I have a CoDIAK cub, 1:42:34.520 --> 1:42:38.519 which is for you know, basically spotting stock outside the truck, 1:42:38.640 --> 1:42:42.320 but the grizzly in the in the CoDIAK or that's 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:45.000 who I run the know. Are you running? Have you 1:42:45.040 --> 1:42:48.120 ever run high power of box? Or you run always 1:42:48.200 --> 1:42:52.760 running a spot or out on the mountain. Yeah, I so, man, 1:42:52.840 --> 1:42:55.880 I'm I'm pretty optics up. I always run tins on 1:42:55.920 --> 1:42:59.320 a tripod um, but a lot of times i'm a 1:42:59.400 --> 1:43:02.600 hubblefing in. So I packed ninety five around a lot 1:43:02.720 --> 1:43:06.559 um and so, depending upon what we're doing, I run 1:43:06.640 --> 1:43:10.120 tins in the ninety five. I've run that ninety four forever. 1:43:10.520 --> 1:43:12.320 I've run a lot of other spotters, but I mean 1:43:12.360 --> 1:43:15.879 that ninety five with me a lot and um sometimes 1:43:15.920 --> 1:43:20.559 I'll run fifteen like um, you know a lot of 1:43:20.560 --> 1:43:24.080 times scouting will actually pack in the nifteen and ten. 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:26.920 But for the most part, like if the zombies come 1:43:26.960 --> 1:43:29.280 and I gotta grab three to pick them ountain pop 1:43:29.320 --> 1:43:31.320 their heads off, I'm grabbing my tins in the nine. 1:43:32.040 --> 1:43:34.320 Yeah that's kind of I'm the same way, almost almost 1:43:34.360 --> 1:43:37.160 exactly the same. But I've hunted with Ronella and Incous 1:43:37.160 --> 1:43:40.720 of your country and he was running those outdoorsmen um 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:43.200 tripods and he was popping its fifteens on there and 1:43:43.280 --> 1:43:49.439 kicking my ass on spotting. So in that Outdoorsman tripods, like, 1:43:49.560 --> 1:43:52.080 I actually just picked up a really right stuff, which 1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:54.479 is a ridiculously Chris tripod, but it was for the 1:43:54.560 --> 1:43:58.280 system for photography and glassing. But yeah, I mean, you 1:43:58.320 --> 1:44:02.280 get fifteens on a tripod, you're gonna do some damage. Um. 1:44:02.320 --> 1:44:05.439 I don't think you can be outglassed with fifteens, just 1:44:05.560 --> 1:44:09.480 for the simple factor power the field of view. Um, 1:44:09.600 --> 1:44:11.240 you know there's a limit to them. You also need 1:44:11.280 --> 1:44:16.520 to spotter. But you know, if you're not a trophy hunter. Um, 1:44:16.560 --> 1:44:18.439 you know when I say trophy, if you're not counting 1:44:18.439 --> 1:44:20.680 the inches right, like you're like, oh, that's a good deal, 1:44:20.720 --> 1:44:23.760 I'm gonna go shoot it. Probably not needed. You can 1:44:23.760 --> 1:44:27.280 see plenty with tens or fifteen. Yeah, that makes total sense. 1:44:27.840 --> 1:44:29.920 We'll have to get you to give us as much 1:44:29.920 --> 1:44:33.160 of the gearless as you'll divulge, because that's stuff. Um. 1:44:33.200 --> 1:44:36.080 You know, I really just got into back country. Really 1:44:36.320 --> 1:44:39.080 what I can consider, you know, serious back country stuff 1:44:39.080 --> 1:44:41.679 here in the last two or three years. But that's 1:44:41.720 --> 1:44:43.799 one of my favorite parts is going through my system 1:44:43.840 --> 1:44:46.080 and tweaking at every single hunt and getting it better 1:44:46.120 --> 1:44:48.439 and understanding how to get lighter and how to get 1:44:48.840 --> 1:44:51.639 even You just talking about the gear that's on your chest. 1:44:52.640 --> 1:44:55.360 Hopefully people listen to this, think about that, think about 1:44:55.400 --> 1:44:57.400 how that could change the game for you where you 1:44:57.640 --> 1:44:59.960 where a certain gear lives on your body when you're 1:45:00.040 --> 1:45:03.439 out there for weeks on end. I mean give you 1:45:03.439 --> 1:45:07.439 an example, um, for people listening to an example. Yeah, 1:45:07.439 --> 1:45:10.959 I generally never dropped my pack anyway until the final approach. 1:45:11.560 --> 1:45:14.920 But you dropped your pack for the primal approach. You 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:18.840 take the shot, adrenaline takes over. You make a less 1:45:18.840 --> 1:45:21.679 than perfect shot. A lot of times you're gonna chase 1:45:21.760 --> 1:45:26.800 after that animal. Adrenaline is flowing. You dropped down a cliff. Okay, 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:29.080 you dropped down that cliff, and now you can't get 1:45:29.120 --> 1:45:32.160 back up it. You've got an animal down there. You've 1:45:32.160 --> 1:45:35.040 got yourself down there and you've got no pack, and 1:45:35.120 --> 1:45:37.320 you've got a long ways to hook up and around 1:45:37.680 --> 1:45:40.720 just to get out of there. Okay, not a problem, right, 1:45:40.760 --> 1:45:44.879 Well a storm blows in. Now you've got no clothing, 1:45:45.439 --> 1:45:48.120 You've got an animal on the ground. You've got to 1:45:48.160 --> 1:45:50.040 figure out what's what, who's too and you need to 1:45:50.040 --> 1:45:52.880 figure it out quick because it's going to take you 1:45:53.000 --> 1:45:55.519 a long time. And you've got no rain gear and 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:58.920 so you can break the animal down. Now you can 1:45:58.920 --> 1:46:01.240 eat the animal. Hell boodycause you've got a kniphone, you've 1:46:01.240 --> 1:46:02.880 got a way to build a fire, and you've got 1:46:02.880 --> 1:46:07.000 a GPS to get you back home. Quicker. That happens 1:46:07.040 --> 1:46:10.200 every year, two hundreds of people at a NACT scenario, 1:46:11.160 --> 1:46:13.360 and most people take off and they've got lint in 1:46:13.400 --> 1:46:16.800 their pocket and that is it. Well, everything is on 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:20.120 my chest that I need. And another thing we've done 1:46:20.200 --> 1:46:22.679 is Cafar has built a lot of lids that work 1:46:23.400 --> 1:46:26.080 as final approach packs. So when you do drop your 1:46:26.800 --> 1:46:29.280 your pack, we have one called the Native that I 1:46:29.360 --> 1:46:32.960 designed that goes along with that chest rig to throw 1:46:33.000 --> 1:46:35.880 my puffy jacket in my rein gear on a final 1:46:35.960 --> 1:46:39.680 far stock so I even have that next level of 1:46:39.720 --> 1:46:42.200 survival in case I get pinned down for a long time, 1:46:42.240 --> 1:46:44.479 and especially with the recurve where you have to get 1:46:44.520 --> 1:46:48.040 really close getting pinned down for five, six, seven hours, 1:46:48.720 --> 1:46:52.000 is it very possible? And so in that I've got 1:46:52.040 --> 1:46:54.439 my t shirt, my smile, and my sandwich and then 1:46:54.479 --> 1:46:57.519 I've got my chest rig that's got everything else. Yeah, 1:46:57.880 --> 1:47:01.479 that's huge. It's just piece like the systematic nature of 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:04.240 how you pack your stuff, and I've I've kind of 1:47:04.240 --> 1:47:07.040 gotten to that. I've got so many stuff sacks with 1:47:07.320 --> 1:47:09.719 all kinds of different stuff, and I started color coding 1:47:09.800 --> 1:47:13.240 things and marking things with tape and getting really really 1:47:13.320 --> 1:47:15.479 ridiculously intricate. But that's part of it, man. Part of 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:18.120 living out of a backpack, which you've done a million 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:21.040 times more than I have. Part of living is being 1:47:21.160 --> 1:47:24.160 organized because that can be the you know, the difference 1:47:24.200 --> 1:47:27.320 between success or not success. And that's a great example 1:47:27.400 --> 1:47:29.360 that you just gave. You know, having your ship together 1:47:29.439 --> 1:47:32.519 can be warm and and kind of dialed in or 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:34.680 shivering and really knocked out into what that animals do 1:47:34.720 --> 1:47:37.320 and just trying to stay alive. Yeah. Yeah, And if 1:47:37.320 --> 1:47:39.200 you watch like Frank and I go at it when 1:47:39.240 --> 1:47:41.680 we head in. It's it's it's really it's an art 1:47:42.120 --> 1:47:45.920 of how this the camp gets set up, where it 1:47:45.960 --> 1:47:49.240 gets set up, why, who's doing what and when in 1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:53.080 a rhythm um, unlike you'll see really with a lot 1:47:53.120 --> 1:47:57.639 of other you know, people going hunting. You know, there's 1:47:57.680 --> 1:48:01.760 a system we have in that system is very precise 1:48:01.840 --> 1:48:04.040 and it and it works very well. And you know, 1:48:04.520 --> 1:48:06.320 the more you do it, the better the system gets. 1:48:06.320 --> 1:48:08.080 And we're lucky enough we get to do we can 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:11.800 do it pretty good. Yeah. Well, unfortunately for me now 1:48:11.800 --> 1:48:13.720 I'm going down this rabbit hole with all of I'm 1:48:13.720 --> 1:48:17.080 writing down everything you mentioned. Everybody listener will post it up, 1:48:17.080 --> 1:48:18.800 But for me tonight it's alrighty late in the evening. 1:48:18.840 --> 1:48:21.280 I'll probably spend the next hour going going down the 1:48:21.280 --> 1:48:23.200 gear rabbit hole. But I love it, man, I love it. 1:48:23.240 --> 1:48:25.800 And it's just it's another thing about hunting that you 1:48:25.800 --> 1:48:28.040 can freaking love. That's just another thing to get wrapped 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:30.880 up in of all the ridiculous things that we get 1:48:30.920 --> 1:48:33.400 wrapped up, wrapped up in. So I appreciate the insight 1:48:33.479 --> 1:48:37.160 on that and um, the inside and everything else. Man, 1:48:37.280 --> 1:48:39.799 this has been This may be the longest hunting collective 1:48:39.800 --> 1:48:44.160 podcast ever for damn good reason. It's a scary conversation. Yeah, well, no, 1:48:44.280 --> 1:48:46.000 I'm glad you have me on. And yet we'll have 1:48:46.080 --> 1:48:48.120 to do another one and just talk gear because I 1:48:48.120 --> 1:48:50.600 can talk to that. I know. How long do you do? 1:48:50.680 --> 1:48:52.720 How long are the photocasts? Do you guys ever do 1:48:52.800 --> 1:48:56.360 like three or four hour ones like Rogan does? No, No, 1:48:56.479 --> 1:48:59.639 not that, not really. Um, you know, but I haven't 1:48:59.640 --> 1:49:02.960 had went on there um on that long where I 1:49:03.000 --> 1:49:05.320 knew I couldn't get him back, and so a lot 1:49:05.360 --> 1:49:07.519 of times I'm like, all right, well, we'll get you 1:49:07.560 --> 1:49:10.480 back next week. We had a guy named Harold Farrenbrook. 1:49:10.520 --> 1:49:14.000 He's killed more ships than smallpox with a re curve 1:49:14.760 --> 1:49:17.599 and uh, it's relatively unknown the some of them us 1:49:17.600 --> 1:49:19.720 just got a cell phone for the first time. In fact, 1:49:19.800 --> 1:49:22.040 we hated each other when we first met because I 1:49:22.520 --> 1:49:25.120 told him I get him a pack and he's calling 1:49:25.160 --> 1:49:27.000 me and I'm texting him and he sends me to 1:49:27.080 --> 1:49:29.920 skated email. You're blowing me off, And I'm like, dude, 1:49:29.920 --> 1:49:32.160 I've texted you like twenty times and he's like, I 1:49:32.200 --> 1:49:36.000 don't own a cell phone, dude. It's two thousand seven 1:49:36.000 --> 1:49:38.760 teams to fuck you mean you own a cell phone? Well, 1:49:38.840 --> 1:49:42.240 it's just how he lives. He's unworldly, he's unbelievable. He's 1:49:42.240 --> 1:49:45.240 just amazing. Man, we get on right now, well having him, 1:49:45.280 --> 1:49:47.000 I think we've had him on three times when we're 1:49:47.040 --> 1:49:48.920 still not board yet, So we could have easily pulled 1:49:48.920 --> 1:49:51.960 a four or five hour podcast. But that's the great 1:49:52.000 --> 1:49:54.559 thing about this this podcast thing. You can do it forever, man, 1:49:54.640 --> 1:49:57.439 And it's not to me, you know this. I think 1:49:57.479 --> 1:49:59.880 this will be episode number ten or something like that. 1:50:00.280 --> 1:50:04.519 And to me, it's just one long conversation just keeps going. 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:06.759 A lot of the same stuff comes up. So people 1:50:06.760 --> 1:50:08.320 I listen to a lot. I'm sure you're the same way. 1:50:08.360 --> 1:50:11.040 But this is one long, kick ass conversation. And I'm 1:50:11.040 --> 1:50:13.519 sure you know you can look back on this, and 1:50:13.560 --> 1:50:16.519 I can look back on mine years from now, and 1:50:16.600 --> 1:50:19.080 kind of we'll probably be smarter, maybe we'll be dumber, 1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:21.519 who knows, but we'll probably be smarter and better hunters 1:50:21.520 --> 1:50:23.080 and better people and look back on some of the 1:50:23.080 --> 1:50:25.400 things we said and did and laugh. But man, it's 1:50:25.400 --> 1:50:29.400 cool to have it all recorded. Yeah, No, for for sure, definitely. 1:50:29.600 --> 1:50:31.360 You know I talked about writing the book, right, like 1:50:31.479 --> 1:50:34.639 your book, the book of your life and the different chapters. 1:50:35.240 --> 1:50:36.920 It's kind of a book inside of a book because 1:50:36.960 --> 1:50:39.240 if you're writing your your different chapters, now you have 1:50:39.280 --> 1:50:41.640 a podcast in one of them. So it's kind of 1:50:41.680 --> 1:50:45.439 cool because, yeah, the documentation of everything that goes on, 1:50:45.560 --> 1:50:48.120 everything you say, I look back at ones that Brian 1:50:48.200 --> 1:50:51.120 and I did and even how things have changed, even 1:50:51.200 --> 1:50:54.160 gear like you know, things change in life, things you 1:50:54.280 --> 1:50:56.760 learn different things that it's always mating. You look back 1:50:56.760 --> 1:50:59.800 in a podcast is definitely a great way to do that. Yeah, man, Well, 1:51:00.160 --> 1:51:02.679 I definitely uh in big fan of years and appreciate 1:51:02.680 --> 1:51:04.639 everything you do. And we've got to have at least 1:51:04.760 --> 1:51:06.880 if not a beer or six. Uh, I spend some 1:51:07.000 --> 1:51:08.960 time on the mountains. Sounds like I'd learned a ton 1:51:09.040 --> 1:51:12.960 and and either way, I appreciate everything that you mean 1:51:13.000 --> 1:51:15.559 to this world. And I gotta get a far pack 1:51:15.640 --> 1:51:17.800 and run around the mountin with you. Yeah, no, that 1:51:17.880 --> 1:51:19.679 sounds like a plane man. Yeah, we'll have to plan 1:51:19.720 --> 1:51:22.800 a hunt together sometimes, something extreme where we're close to death. 1:51:22.800 --> 1:51:26.360 Those are always a good one, definitely. I Once you 1:51:26.439 --> 1:51:29.639 do that, you just want to take it further every 1:51:29.680 --> 1:51:31.479 time I've I was close to death last year a 1:51:31.520 --> 1:51:33.800 couple of times, and uh, this year, I haven't yet been, 1:51:33.840 --> 1:51:36.080 so I'm not quite as happy with with with life. 1:51:36.080 --> 1:51:39.000 So I'm with you, man, I'm there. I've got an 1:51:39.000 --> 1:51:40.880 opening on a goat and hunt this year, so maybe 1:51:40.880 --> 1:51:42.839 you can join on that one. That should be interesting. 1:51:43.000 --> 1:51:44.240 I got a lot of new gear I'm about to 1:51:44.240 --> 1:51:50.760 buy for that hunt. So do all right, dude, appreciate everything? Yeah, no, 1:51:50.920 --> 1:51:53.120 thanks for having me on, man, and definitely the fan 1:51:53.160 --> 1:51:55.160 of yours as well, and I definitely wanted to link 1:51:55.240 --> 1:52:02.759 up cool talk soon. Right. That's it. That's all number 1:52:02.760 --> 1:52:05.000 ten in the books. We made it to double digits. 1:52:06.200 --> 1:52:09.800 We've got about twelve hours a little bit more than 1:52:09.840 --> 1:52:13.559 twelve hours of hunting conversation in the books, with some 1:52:13.800 --> 1:52:17.519 freaking awesome guests. You know. I'm sure there's lots of 1:52:17.520 --> 1:52:20.960 milestones and podcasting. I don't know that ten is any 1:52:21.000 --> 1:52:24.160 bigger than nine or eleven, but I think every time 1:52:24.160 --> 1:52:25.760 I put one of these out, I feel like there's 1:52:25.840 --> 1:52:28.160 my stone out there. And so I want to thank 1:52:28.560 --> 1:52:33.000 Aaron Snyder for being guest number ten and for providing 1:52:33.240 --> 1:52:35.880 a lot of insight for this conversation. And he just 1:52:35.960 --> 1:52:39.160 talks about some of these issues in a different way. 1:52:39.479 --> 1:52:42.120 It strikes me that a guy like Shane Mahoney or 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:46.920 a guy like Charles Post, who were former guests of 1:52:46.920 --> 1:52:50.200 this podcast, speaks so differently about the same issues, but 1:52:50.200 --> 1:52:52.800 they're still driving at the same point that Aaron is 1:52:53.360 --> 1:52:56.439 um than he is at at his core, a good 1:52:56.520 --> 1:52:59.080 person and a good guy who talks to really about 1:52:59.120 --> 1:53:02.360 anything and hunting. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation. 1:53:02.479 --> 1:53:05.080 I really did. I didn't know Aaron very well going 1:53:05.120 --> 1:53:06.880 into this. I feel like I want to get to 1:53:06.880 --> 1:53:10.280 know him a lot better afterwards. I was very, very 1:53:10.320 --> 1:53:12.439 impressed by everything he had to say and just who 1:53:12.439 --> 1:53:14.439 he is and what he means the hunting industry. So 1:53:14.680 --> 1:53:16.400 hopefully we can have a good strike up a great 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:20.360 relationship here at the Honey Collective with Aaron Snyder, and 1:53:20.400 --> 1:53:23.599 hopefully all of you are starting to flow with us 1:53:23.680 --> 1:53:26.759 and enjoy these conversations as they come out every week. 1:53:28.000 --> 1:53:30.080 If you want to hear more, you can go to 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:34.479 the Hunting Collective dot com. As always you'll find our boy, 1:53:34.560 --> 1:53:40.560 Stephen Ranella, Remy Warren, John Dudley, all Remarkus, Shane Mahoney, 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:44.840 Charles Post Sam so hold Man. There's just a lot 1:53:44.880 --> 1:53:48.000 of them tend to be exact, and you'll find them 1:53:48.000 --> 1:53:49.680 all there at the Hunting Collective dot com. Wells some 1:53:49.800 --> 1:53:54.120 articles and videos to supplement them. Uh, you can go 1:53:54.200 --> 1:53:58.040 to Stitcher and two iTunes. Hopefully by the time this 1:53:58.120 --> 1:54:00.160 airs will have Google Play in the mix, so I 1:54:00.240 --> 1:54:01.880 have YouTube in the mix. We're talking about a lot 1:54:01.920 --> 1:54:03.800 of things, trying to get this up on all the 1:54:03.800 --> 1:54:06.200 platforms that needs to be on, So stick with us 1:54:06.240 --> 1:54:09.000 on that. If there's something that you would like to 1:54:09.040 --> 1:54:12.000 hear that you're not hearing, Holler will make it happen. 1:54:13.040 --> 1:54:18.280 Heading to Boise, Idaho tomorrow morning for the back country 1:54:18.479 --> 1:54:24.040 hundreds of Anglers rendezvous, so be there Thursday and Friday. Uh, 1:54:24.200 --> 1:54:28.320 this will probably go out Thursday morning. So hopefully you're 1:54:28.320 --> 1:54:30.280 listening to this and you're headed over to the rendezvous, 1:54:30.600 --> 1:54:33.520 I'll see you there. I'll be hanging out all over 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:36.560 the place. Hopefully I'll see you at that creative. Then 1:54:37.680 --> 1:54:42.280 until next time, episode number eleven coming at you. Stay 1:54:42.280 --> 1:55:00.800 tuned for that. See you eight