Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome episode number ten of The Hunting Collective.
Speaker 1: I'm Bet O'Brien. Today we're joined by none other than
Speaker 1: Aaron Snyder. Aaron is the dude, the man. I think
Speaker 1: he's the president of CEO. He just is the guy
Speaker 1: at Kafaro Packs. Um, he's also the host of the
Speaker 1: Kafar To Cast and a bunch of other great things
Speaker 1: for that company. But moreover, man, he's just a back
Speaker 1: country badass. I could talk to him all day about
Speaker 1: his strategies for hunting in the back country, living out
Speaker 1: of a pack for weeks on end, for months on end. Uh,
Speaker 1: You'll hear and talk a lot about his advice and
Speaker 1: tips in that area. Man, He's got a lot to say,
Speaker 1: and hopefully, UM, this podcast will start a larger conversation
Speaker 1: with him because I think he's a wealth of information
Speaker 1: about how to succeed in the back country. But we
Speaker 1: also because I oh Aaron such an honest guy. He's
Speaker 1: got a reputation in the hunting world as an honest
Speaker 1: guy and straightforward dude, no bullshit that he would He
Speaker 1: would shoot us straight on a lot of tougher issues
Speaker 1: we've been talking about within the hunting industry, So I
Speaker 1: was glad to talk with him about gripping grins and
Speaker 1: social media and non hunters, anti hunters and everything in between.
Speaker 1: I think it was a great conversation with a really
Speaker 1: honest guy. You're gonna you're a lot more cursing than
Speaker 1: you normally do in this thing because it was a
Speaker 1: great conversation. We were flowing and he likes to let
Speaker 1: it fly. So without further ado, here's Mr Aaron Snyder,
Speaker 1: a certified back country badass hunter and a good guy.
Speaker 1: Episode number ten. Enjoy Aaron, what's going on? Man? Grabbing
Speaker 1: me on? How about you? Oh? Just uh, just getting ready,
Speaker 1: get done chasing turks, check myself for ticks, trying to
Speaker 1: make sure the defeat wasn't more than the actual the
Speaker 1: hunting portion. Yeah, yeah, we Texas Rios are normally not
Speaker 1: the smartest turkey, but in the case of this last
Speaker 1: couple of days, um, they I either got a lot
Speaker 1: more dumb or they got a lot smarter. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure which. Yeah, where are you at down there? So
Speaker 1: we've got yet He has a ranch um down almost
Speaker 1: on the border near town called the Eagle Pass, so
Speaker 1: we're stones throw from the um Mexican border there. So
Speaker 1: we were all the way down south for a couple
Speaker 1: of days and I up here close to Austin, Texas
Speaker 1: a couple of days and uh, crappy weather, bad situations.
Speaker 1: Usually what was usually is a pretty easy run for
Speaker 1: turkeys was was came up nothing. Oh yeah, that's because
Speaker 1: I've never I have one. Hunted Texas a little bit, um,
Speaker 1: not a whole lot. Just um my ex wife actually
Speaker 1: lived down there, so um when we were together. They
Speaker 1: have a branch in the hill country. So I hunted
Speaker 1: out a little bit, but not a whole whole lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the good things about living
Speaker 1: in Texas. Hunting wise, there's very few good things. But
Speaker 1: one of the good things is is turkeys. You can
Speaker 1: shoot four with a resident license, and most landowners could
Speaker 1: give two ships about turkeys. So more access and good
Speaker 1: amount of tags. Other than being able to hunt exotics,
Speaker 1: that's about really the only good thing I found about
Speaker 1: hunting in this state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely so
Speaker 1: tell me, like we were just talking before we went
Speaker 1: live here about my podcasting technical difficulty because I'm just
Speaker 1: one guy here h sitting at a table. You've been
Speaker 1: podcasting for quite a while. I mean, how have you
Speaker 1: seen the medium change and and how's it changed your career?
Speaker 1: And yeah, I've been interested to talk to you just
Speaker 1: about podcasting in general and what you've seen over the
Speaker 1: years that you've been doing in it. Oh, I mean
Speaker 1: I really just I started with Brian. Bryan has taded
Speaker 1: me on as it as a guest and on a
Speaker 1: podcast a couple of years ago and took well three
Speaker 1: years ago. I guessed with the Gritty Bowman and I'm
Speaker 1: kind of introverted to begin with. And he got like
Speaker 1: right up in my gril bugging me about it, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it, you know, and and um, not that
Speaker 1: I hadn't. There's people that knew who I was, but
Speaker 1: I hadn't really you know. I just I didn't really
Speaker 1: make myself, you know, known to the public or whatever.
Speaker 1: And um, and it turns out a lot of people
Speaker 1: I was an asshole, which was good I got on
Speaker 1: the podcast. If people may still think that, but they
Speaker 1: at least they think I'm a funny one now. Um.
Speaker 1: And so you know, Brian was one of the first
Speaker 1: and uh, the Gritty Bowmen or whatever, and it's uh,
Speaker 1: I had a few people tell me, like, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of predict the future of there'll be hundreds of
Speaker 1: them in no time and and wow, um there are
Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts now, some of them really good
Speaker 1: and some of them probably should just stop doing podcasts.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's definitely as far as for me, Um,
Speaker 1: since I don't like being in public so much, like
Speaker 1: I don't really like going to shows or whatever, it's
Speaker 1: definitely let people get to know me a lot more
Speaker 1: and and get a little bit more well known. Um,
Speaker 1: just you know, as far as how I am and
Speaker 1: how I hunt and you know, normal stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean people are in your You're in people's ears,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a pretty passive way to to
Speaker 1: take in media. I mean TV you kind of have
Speaker 1: to be plugged in and looking at a screen this thing.
Speaker 1: They can just kind of just in their ears. And
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is about about podcasting that
Speaker 1: brings them a little closer to you. So I'm sure
Speaker 1: in your case, I mean, you know, I'm I have
Speaker 1: to go to shows. I don't know if you'd call
Speaker 1: me a show person or not. I think I do
Speaker 1: all right with the talking and the answering the same
Speaker 1: question a hundred times and and all that, but uh,
Speaker 1: I prefer this kind of conversation. Well, I dropped f
Speaker 1: bombs like a comma. That's another problem. So I gotta
Speaker 1: early watch that. And uh, I mean, we we have
Speaker 1: a podcast where I started my own podcast, Frank and
Speaker 1: I UM, which is definitely explicit compared to where Brian
Speaker 1: had to do a lot of bleeping. Um. What's I
Speaker 1: try to be as good as I can on head
Speaker 1: um and I'll try not to drop any bomb. Please
Speaker 1: do bring him bring him on. I could care less.
Speaker 1: I could care less. Anybody that knows me knows I'm m.
Speaker 1: I don't drop him every column, but just about every
Speaker 1: other comma. Well, I just like Rogan will text me.
Speaker 1: He's like, dude, I'm so f and happy that you
Speaker 1: f and cuss. I can't handle beats and uh, you
Speaker 1: know for Frank and I. I mean, that's one thing
Speaker 1: I've never I mean, right since I was fourteen, I
Speaker 1: haven't changed much. Right, I'm the saying what might have
Speaker 1: grown up a little, but um, you know, And and
Speaker 1: that's one thing I think that people responded really well.
Speaker 1: The Kafaro cast is the you know, the I mean
Speaker 1: it's raw, but it is what it is. It's what
Speaker 1: we're doing and we don't, you know, really anything up.
Speaker 1: I've only got one email thus far asking me to
Speaker 1: stop cussing, so and I've got a number of emails
Speaker 1: from this podcast. I'll take that as a win. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's some people out there they don't fucking like it,
Speaker 1: but sorry, like that's do it for emphasis? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: no kid. Well, I've been listening to a couple of
Speaker 1: forecasts actually on the on the road trip back up
Speaker 1: here from from Turkey Camp and enjoy I'd, like I said,
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy the role on this and and I definitely
Speaker 1: have been a following yours for a while. Um, especially
Speaker 1: on the trade bow side of things. I've never I've
Speaker 1: never made that jump. I'm still I've been shooting a
Speaker 1: compound bow for most of my life, but i still
Speaker 1: feel like I'm learning that thing. Um as as as
Speaker 1: long as I've been doing it is that you feel
Speaker 1: like that's a permanent thing with you. I'm gonna stay
Speaker 1: with the trade bow, never jump back over to the wheels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think I will, even though I'm leaving a
Speaker 1: shiploads of money on endorsement contracts. I don't not a
Speaker 1: whole lot of Tragic Boat guys or companies are like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I will pay you to shoot our boat.
Speaker 1: So I kind of put myself on that one. But
Speaker 1: I don't think i'll I'll go back. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll still do tuning and stuff and help guys out
Speaker 1: on the podcast. But as far as you know shooting,
Speaker 1: I mean, we just shot a three D course tonight
Speaker 1: before I got on the horn with you, and uh
Speaker 1: I can. I will shoot until my fingers fall off
Speaker 1: with a recurve um, I shoot a black widow p
Speaker 1: s A and I just shoot teting lights out where
Speaker 1: were the compound? I mean, it was just I mean,
Speaker 1: I've got a d D like a motherfucker anyway, So
Speaker 1: it was like a struggle to get through twenty targets.
Speaker 1: And my fiance has even brought up She's like, I
Speaker 1: have never seen you like this, just just infatuated with something.
Speaker 1: So I can't say I'll never go back, but I
Speaker 1: can say at this point in time that I don't
Speaker 1: have any plans on back to the wheel though. What
Speaker 1: is it about that that I mean I get, I
Speaker 1: get like that with a compound bow. I think I'd
Speaker 1: get about that with any discipline like archery. Just I'll
Speaker 1: be out in the yard and I want to shoot
Speaker 1: ten airs and go have a beer and have dinner,
Speaker 1: and the next thing I know, I'm a hunter twenty
Speaker 1: airs deep, my arms falling off. I mean, I get
Speaker 1: that all the time. I think with me, I got
Speaker 1: to get enough with the compound that there was not
Speaker 1: a lot of a challenge. And uh, I mean I
Speaker 1: have a one World championships or anything. I don't. I
Speaker 1: haven't shot competitively in a while, but I can stand
Speaker 1: side by side. It was just about anyone and not
Speaker 1: embarrass myself, and especially when with hunting. And I think
Speaker 1: it just got to a point where it was almost
Speaker 1: such a given that UM with a compound for me
Speaker 1: to to, you know, to kill an animal, the harvest animal.
Speaker 1: I just it's more exciting because you suck so bad
Speaker 1: with the traditional bow. You gotta work so hard at it, um,
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that's part of it, that
Speaker 1: it's just and for me, I'm a horrible trophy hunter, right,
Speaker 1: I'm more and for I like need, I like the hunt,
Speaker 1: I like the camaraderie. I like to beat myself up.
Speaker 1: And so you know when you can drop bombs at
Speaker 1: a hundred yards and shoot extremely effectively and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden a hundred yards like a par four
Speaker 1: or five, it definitely changes the game. Yeah, what's your
Speaker 1: how effective are you at the thirty yards? Say? Uh, oh,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want me shooting it at me at fifty,
Speaker 1: but as far as in forties, my my max. You know,
Speaker 1: like like I certain situations or whatever, I would take
Speaker 1: the forty yards shot. Um. I mean I can keep
Speaker 1: them well with inside a paper plate, but um, you
Speaker 1: know my goal is And I've shot a few animal
Speaker 1: at a couple of animals now, uh, you know feet
Speaker 1: away like chat a mule deer stucked in and press
Speaker 1: shot at it a foot away maybe, um, And uh
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, it's just it's just cool.
Speaker 1: And and uh I shot a real big buck with
Speaker 1: Briant up in Alberta kind on another end right at
Speaker 1: forty um. Uh. And Jeff Lander that there was the
Speaker 1: outfitter anyway, And it's just a different intensity for me.
Speaker 1: And I'm on a journal and dunky junkie anyway, and
Speaker 1: my heart rate doesn't go up a lot when I
Speaker 1: shoot a compound in comparison, and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: sho had a freaking dough white tail and was ecstatic
Speaker 1: down in Alabama. I took a fixture whether it was
Speaker 1: my first white tale, and guys are like, man, I
Speaker 1: can't believe he still shoot? Does you take a picture
Speaker 1: with it? And I'm like, well, why wouldn't I. I mean,
Speaker 1: at one, it's not overly easy tipping over an animal
Speaker 1: to begin with. Number two, with a recur it's even harder.
Speaker 1: And three, I mean it's a big deal for me.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I got one. And I end up shooting
Speaker 1: a buck the next day or two days later. But
Speaker 1: I guess everybody's got their own opinion of of of
Speaker 1: a trophy. And at that point in time, that freaking
Speaker 1: white tail dough was a trophy for me because I
Speaker 1: see trop me like memorable, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I got one of it, so I
Speaker 1: and I think too. I mean, um, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm an odd duck. I'm I'm I'm I'm not in it.
Speaker 1: For I'm weird. Man, I've left I left in the field,
Speaker 1: you take the meat back, And I'm just one of
Speaker 1: those odd guys that really UM am in it for
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons that maybe other people might not
Speaker 1: agree with. And and I say if they don't agree
Speaker 1: with truthfully, I and Brian Cole will tell you Antler's
Speaker 1: size does not make a ship a difference. To me,
Speaker 1: if I had a choice to shoot a one sixty
Speaker 1: five deer or something on the side of the road
Speaker 1: or shoot a hundred and thirty eight miles in on
Speaker 1: the stock, I'm gonna go eight miles in. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that to pound my chest. I just like
Speaker 1: backpack hunting, and I like that at picture. So I've
Speaker 1: talked to I give Steve and Ella credit, but I
Speaker 1: think Steve and all his brother Danny Danny or Matt,
Speaker 1: one of his two brothers, came up with this idea
Speaker 1: of the purity score for hunting. Talked about that a lot.
Speaker 1: And I love that ship because you think about what
Speaker 1: we're talking about this in Turkey Camp a couple of
Speaker 1: days ago. I have my purity score nowadays is like
Speaker 1: how I feel when I walk up on the animal,
Speaker 1: Like the moment that I walk up and realize it's
Speaker 1: dead and I did what I came to do, Like
Speaker 1: what do I feel like because if, for example, if
Speaker 1: it's on the side of the road, or it's a
Speaker 1: giant buck that I barely I got there on day one,
Speaker 1: crawled up on it and shot at whatever range, it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel the same as if you it's nine days
Speaker 1: into a backpack hunt and you had to make some
Speaker 1: ridiculous shot off a cliff and then scale down and
Speaker 1: find the deer and pack it out like that, you don't.
Speaker 1: The purity score is just based on how you feel
Speaker 1: when you walk up on the on the damn thing.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's that's one thing just from
Speaker 1: following you on social I know we haven't met met
Speaker 1: to this point, but I admire that because that's what
Speaker 1: I get, that feeling with you, even though maybe it
Speaker 1: hadn't heard some purity score, maybe you had, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I get that feeling that that's what's important to you.
Speaker 1: It Yeah, it is, And I mean I've I've yeah,
Speaker 1: I've gotten pretty epic battles that almost have went to
Speaker 1: fists about this, where some guys cracking on a guy
Speaker 1: that shot his first animal, um, you know, and it
Speaker 1: was a spike or a cow le could he's super
Speaker 1: ecstatic and you know, you get some righteous dick ad
Speaker 1: saying I would never shoot that, and it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: mommy and Daddy didn't hand him everything and give him.
Speaker 1: I'm ranch in Montana to go hunt on this asso.
Speaker 1: I had to hike in and kill it himself. And
Speaker 1: he's happy with it. So just the funk up. Let
Speaker 1: him be happy. That made his life. And uh, and
Speaker 1: I've been a pretty big advocate of that, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, go hunt for the right, go hunt it
Speaker 1: for what makes you happy, and what what turns your
Speaker 1: crank and if that may be making a self bow
Speaker 1: and shooting a dought and well, theyr up some funk
Speaker 1: on him and get out there like making. You know,
Speaker 1: we have problems in the industry now, and so I'll
Speaker 1: try to join up and get along, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's it's there's a bunch of things and
Speaker 1: that I agree with the hunter percents, like you just
Speaker 1: strip away. As long as if there wasn't social media,
Speaker 1: no one could see what you were up to, What
Speaker 1: would you do what you could You would only do
Speaker 1: what you thought brought you excitement and pleasures not the
Speaker 1: right term, but but fulfillment from the hunt you know,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't do anything based on what anyone else thought
Speaker 1: if no one could see what you were doing, and
Speaker 1: there was no chance of that, so right, you know,
Speaker 1: social media think it has changed that. I would just say,
Speaker 1: you can definitely see on my social media page. I
Speaker 1: don't give the ship. I did the exact same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I would do no matter, you know. And and
Speaker 1: other people though it's like, oh, don't post that I missed,
Speaker 1: Oh don't post this, I did that, or you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing worse than the guy posting the photo
Speaker 1: of an animal and apologizing it wasn't big enough. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I understand you wanted something bigger,
Speaker 1: totally understand. Maybe you let down a little bit, but
Speaker 1: you did take the things fucking life right like you
Speaker 1: chose to kill it. So don't apologize it wasn't big enough.
Speaker 1: Be proud of these shot or don't shoot? I mean,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I mean, I don't whatever, Well, what
Speaker 1: kind of weird like it's just a value system thing, man, Like,
Speaker 1: it's just a value system thing, like what what do
Speaker 1: you value? You value like what people think about the
Speaker 1: ends all or what you think about the ends? I
Speaker 1: mean that's that's all it is. And if you if
Speaker 1: you value what's on top of its head, you're never
Speaker 1: gonna be happy because there's always a bigger animal out there.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna shoot the world record every time, and
Speaker 1: you're never gonna quite get there's people perception of what's
Speaker 1: on top of its head. If that, you're in gold,
Speaker 1: and definitely in it for the wrong reasons. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm laughing at this because we Brian Gaul just sent
Speaker 1: me the video of our moose hunt, and you talked
Speaker 1: about that that scale, right, And when he shot his moose,
Speaker 1: I had my bow in my hand and moose came
Speaker 1: in and I'm like, he bline, I know him up,
Speaker 1: but go ahead, you go ahead and shoot it with
Speaker 1: the gun. I don't want. I don't want to shoot
Speaker 1: it with a gun. And he shot at great moose,
Speaker 1: you know. Fast forward, um six days of rain, snow
Speaker 1: and misery, and had a big bullet five or stick
Speaker 1: hunter yards away and we're looking at it, figuring in
Speaker 1: a plan, and here comes at two points and I
Speaker 1: looked at Devon and I it, hey, if that comes closer,
Speaker 1: it's gonna die today. He was like hunt and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I'm like, I'm here because I want
Speaker 1: the meat because the moose is really good. Better pray
Speaker 1: that that thing doesn't come down to the river. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take it. And he still thought I was kidding,
Speaker 1: And Brian was like, it will be like stopping an
Speaker 1: ocean wave. He will kill that thing if it comes down.
Speaker 1: He's gonna because I I we throw the trailer up
Speaker 1: there to bring all the meat home. And so it's
Speaker 1: pretty apparent on videos. That's the last thing that I'm
Speaker 1: concerned with, uh, is the size of the rack. Now
Speaker 1: Having said that, I'm not going to pass up hyder
Speaker 1: Nad and steer to go shoot it go And I'm
Speaker 1: not stupid, but I mean, I mean putting things into perspective. Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well that's the first time. The first time Rogan I
Speaker 1: went hunting that happened. He shot at two point moose,
Speaker 1: and him and I we had been hunting. He was
Speaker 1: just there for the meat and we had been hunting
Speaker 1: for seven days in a rain. Shouldn't out or anything.
Speaker 1: He shot it and we celebrated like we both on
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. We were chest bumping and high five
Speaker 1: and and spinning around the circles like idiots. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was it was. That was one of the best
Speaker 1: kills of my life. Just watching him shoot a moose
Speaker 1: basically on the side of the road with a rifle
Speaker 1: and being more happy than anybody I've ever seen. It
Speaker 1: just tells you a lot about what the hell your
Speaker 1: mind can can be get wrapped around and when you're
Speaker 1: out there just getting rid of the trophy aspect of
Speaker 1: it of it. Yeah, yeah, no, for for sure. And
Speaker 1: you know, I just, uh, I just did a podcast
Speaker 1: with the guy um talking about trophy photos trophy hunting,
Speaker 1: and you know, he kind of came off as an
Speaker 1: asshole and his post on social media, so I kind
Speaker 1: of wanted to bring them on and explain it. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I said, well, man, while you're preaching to
Speaker 1: their own crowd, if you're posting on your own social
Speaker 1: media page because you hunt lions and elephants and giraffes,
Speaker 1: kinds of ship like you hunt. And he he he
Speaker 1: has said, yeah, like, you know, the trophy is up
Speaker 1: to each person, and I don't bash anyone whatever that
Speaker 1: trophy maybe to what it is to them. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: he was just talking about hiding behind and and this
Speaker 1: actually popped up because the podcast you and Brian did
Speaker 1: about hiding behind the word you know, trophy or trophy hunting.
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, I think the biggest issue
Speaker 1: we have on a lot of this stuff is one
Speaker 1: fighting in the inner ranks, and two context like tell
Speaker 1: the story, like to tell what happened, you know, tell
Speaker 1: tell people what it took. Like. That's one thing I
Speaker 1: try to do with photography. It's for a non or
Speaker 1: anti hunter watching what I post that might pop on
Speaker 1: their Instagram page. I wanted to see something somewhat artistic
Speaker 1: that tells a story, not just dead ship, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't have any problem with that ship. Right. But
Speaker 1: my my fiance was not an anti hunter, but I
Speaker 1: would say neutral. Her mom definitely anti and she's eating
Speaker 1: my moose tonight. Because I was able to explain it
Speaker 1: in good context of how life works, how the circle
Speaker 1: of life works must be weird. I think we do
Speaker 1: a fucking horrible job as hunters at that sometimes, like
Speaker 1: we just do a job at it. We can do
Speaker 1: a lot better. We've done it. We've done a terrible
Speaker 1: job at it. And I think that's part of we've
Speaker 1: had a lot of great This podcast, as me, has
Speaker 1: been like a Catharsis around that idea, because everybody I
Speaker 1: talked to seems to have a different slant on it,
Speaker 1: but they all come to the same thing, like we
Speaker 1: haven't shown the proper appreciation one. You can't do it
Speaker 1: and just one post with some words underneath it. You
Speaker 1: gotta do it consistently and tell your story. And if
Speaker 1: those grip and grinds are important to you, well you've
Speaker 1: got to understand who's going to see those group and grins.
Speaker 1: Like and I'm I'm a journalism major. I wasn't back
Speaker 1: in college a long time ago, but um, the first
Speaker 1: role of journalism was know your audience. And when you
Speaker 1: put something on the internet, even if they're just to
Speaker 1: your followers, you don't know where that thing is gonna go.
Speaker 1: And just a photo of you and a dead critter
Speaker 1: doesn't tell half the story, especially if you're smiling behind
Speaker 1: and you wiped all the blood off and and put
Speaker 1: fake eyes in or whatever people do when they when
Speaker 1: they really glorify that troffy shots. It's like, you gotta
Speaker 1: know who's gonna see it, um, before you can send
Speaker 1: something like that. If you texted me a grip and
Speaker 1: griend photo. I'd be like, badass, because I understand everything
Speaker 1: about hunting and everything about what you're up to when
Speaker 1: you took that thing. But if if I'm a non
Speaker 1: hunter and I've never seen a troffy photo before you
Speaker 1: send that to me, I might say fuck you um
Speaker 1: and the same breath, and I can understand both reactions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah. And I think that's where one thing I've
Speaker 1: been talked about on one the other day that I
Speaker 1: had done. And what it is so important is context,
Speaker 1: telling the story and helping people understand because they think
Speaker 1: it's important to understand be in goal right and and
Speaker 1: that that their meat. They're not crying over burger at
Speaker 1: the grocery store, Like I don't see anybody shedding a
Speaker 1: cheer in the middle of King Stupers or Frek Myers
Speaker 1: right now. He's dropping to it me thinking the burger, God,
Speaker 1: they killed that. True, they just did it with the
Speaker 1: pay check or or you know whatever. But people understanding like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know that animal died to um, lived on a
Speaker 1: farm with whatever in the cage um and kind of
Speaker 1: explaining it on a parallel that it's not much different
Speaker 1: than you know, obviously if they're totally you know, leg
Speaker 1: in an anti a little bit different story, but explaining
Speaker 1: how it happens and we're not just a bunch of
Speaker 1: red deck shoot shoot out the window, um drinking deer right, like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more true than that. How would you
Speaker 1: explain One thing I always get I try to ask
Speaker 1: everybody for their opinion on this one is how do
Speaker 1: you explain in the trophy shot? Right, I've taken them.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have to, mean, we all have. It's
Speaker 1: just what hunters do at some level. How are you
Speaker 1: explaining the smile to people? Why? People say, why are
Speaker 1: you smiling? I mean, how do you explain that? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm horrible about smiling, but pretty easy. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you climbed to the top, he ever, is your probably
Speaker 1: smiling under your mask? If you play, if you win
Speaker 1: the NBA Championships, you're probably smiling. And the thing is
Speaker 1: you're not smiling because the animals, because you killed the animal.
Speaker 1: You're smiling at the all the hard work, the pain
Speaker 1: and heartache and that you actually finally succeeded um and
Speaker 1: you don't want to Also, if you frown and look
Speaker 1: scowling and almost you're trying to look like this mercenary warrior. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know that's a double edged sword. But it's
Speaker 1: more for the hard work and effort you put in.
Speaker 1: And even though you took a life or animals life,
Speaker 1: you know you're proud of it. You want to show
Speaker 1: other people. But it's not showing disrespect the animals, more
Speaker 1: more showing like the happiness and the the end goal
Speaker 1: that you you know that you actually performed that. Now
Speaker 1: the other thing is you could just not take the photo, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's that they're not taking show people. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things where I really think
Speaker 1: it's important to telling the story. Um, if you have
Speaker 1: nothing but grip and great information, should look like some
Speaker 1: you know, easy eskillery that only sh shoop for the
Speaker 1: photos and the giant horns. But if you show you
Speaker 1: know that eating the meat, cooking it, what it took
Speaker 1: to get there, the working out, the shooting, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff to where you can run that parallel and say, hey,
Speaker 1: did you did you did you think anyone? Did you?
Speaker 1: Did you feel remorse when you ate your turkey border tonight? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, and kind of running in that parallel to
Speaker 1: help him understand. I think, you know, the rick and
Speaker 1: ran or the portion of it is is UM. It's
Speaker 1: a fine line, but I think it's important to show
Speaker 1: that you're proud of what you've done, but also not
Speaker 1: show disrespect to the you know, to the animal, at
Speaker 1: least on the public eye. I think on the other
Speaker 1: end of it. You know, we talked about the trophy
Speaker 1: photo a lot I've been seeing lately, And I don't
Speaker 1: know if some people just wouldn't want to talk about
Speaker 1: this or just would be a tough subject, but I
Speaker 1: really don't don't care. I try to make sure we
Speaker 1: talked about that kind of stuff here. This did the
Speaker 1: overdymetization of hunting, like people that are taking these dramatic
Speaker 1: photos that are contrived and try to make it look
Speaker 1: harder than it is, or try to just contrive a
Speaker 1: moment that they feel like a touch point. You see,
Speaker 1: you feel like you're seeing that a lot. I feel
Speaker 1: like in my circles, I've seen it a little bit more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes me want to smack the shoot out of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I don't have any problem if
Speaker 1: you are one with UM religion and you're UM, you know,
Speaker 1: all deer stuff. I mean, I think that's great. If
Speaker 1: you're like super duper Christian. Um, why you would make
Speaker 1: the animal go into full rig of mortis with its
Speaker 1: wrap up so you can kneel down and pray for
Speaker 1: it and in front of it for a photo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get little irritated about that. I don't understand it myself,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. It's
Speaker 1: my own opinion, but I think that, um, some of
Speaker 1: the over glorified photos that that I do see or
Speaker 1: or a little much and uh and can be taken
Speaker 1: in their own context. Um, I would agree, But I
Speaker 1: mean it's coming from a guy that can barely read
Speaker 1: and write. What I carry about fifteen pounds a camera
Speaker 1: gear from the moment we leave until the moment we
Speaker 1: get back, and I make sure and take a photo
Speaker 1: of every part of that. And you know, a fraction
Speaker 1: of the photos. Have a four thousand photos I'll take
Speaker 1: on a seven to tend hunt, maybe fifty of them
Speaker 1: are of the actual trophy at the end of the animal. Um.
Speaker 1: And there's probably a hundred and fifty of us cutting
Speaker 1: it up. And there's probably another hundred and fifty of
Speaker 1: us taking care of it and cooking it that night
Speaker 1: on a stick. Um, if you have three photos of
Speaker 1: the hunt, thus photos of the trophy, and another three
Speaker 1: getting it out, your priorities are probably pretty sucked up
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Yeah, I've seen that if on a
Speaker 1: few hunts that that I've been on. I mean, it's tough.
Speaker 1: I'm the same as you, like I've I got called
Speaker 1: out pretty recently on a photo of one racist earlier
Speaker 1: this year. Um, on a photo of me. It was
Speaker 1: a contrived photo of me walking up a cliff edge
Speaker 1: in uh Northwest Territories, trying to look hardcore with this
Speaker 1: freaking caribou skull in my pack and nothing else in it.
Speaker 1: And I had a buddy call me out on it,
Speaker 1: and I'm so happy looking back on it. He just
Speaker 1: kind of wrote the sarcastic like, real tough for O'Brien, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's real tough. I'm sure you spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time climbing up that cliff. I was like, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: spent no time climbing up that fucking cliff. I just
Speaker 1: kind of scurried up and somebody took a photo and
Speaker 1: I posted it and it was pretty disingenuous on my part,
Speaker 1: and he called me out, and I'm glad he did. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can always call people out
Speaker 1: in the moment like that without without it getting combative.
Speaker 1: But at some level, if it's somebody you're close to
Speaker 1: and you see that, let him know that that maybe
Speaker 1: that's not the best thing to do, and maybe you
Speaker 1: can switch it up a little bit. So I'm definitely
Speaker 1: guilty of that, ship, I really am. I've made some
Speaker 1: minimies by saying for and I understand photo sheets. I
Speaker 1: mean how I run you run YETI right? I mean,
Speaker 1: you gotta to you. But you know, if you've got
Speaker 1: someone else's animal on your pack for a qualified photo,
Speaker 1: I get'll put you over that. But I mean having
Speaker 1: you know said that. I mean I just posted a
Speaker 1: photo not too long ago of this enormous seven against
Speaker 1: wide moose on my pack. But I posted in the
Speaker 1: story to say, hey, I only had to pack this
Speaker 1: thing a couple of hundred yards to where we could
Speaker 1: get the helicopter to land. I didn't carry it five miles.
Speaker 1: I didn't, you know what I mean, Like we didn't.
Speaker 1: And sure enough, as soon as we got the rack
Speaker 1: on the guy's getting the camera and they said, we
Speaker 1: got to take photos of this ship. No one's gonna
Speaker 1: believe it because it was you know, two pound load. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, I there's times that for
Speaker 1: correct lighting. I mean maybe not like an animal on
Speaker 1: the head. I'll recreate stuff and say, hey, quit moving,
Speaker 1: kneel down again. That was a great photo. I think
Speaker 1: that's okay. I don't mind that. But you do see
Speaker 1: guys stuff a pack with sleeping bags to throw an
Speaker 1: animal on the back of it, crooked gamo lines on
Speaker 1: their face and ship for a better photo. Yeah, different
Speaker 1: genuits would That would probably be an a dictionary right
Speaker 1: beside the definition. Um, you know, it's not really how
Speaker 1: how life work when you're in the field. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a balance. So you said, you know
Speaker 1: you're running Creferro you it's same with YETI. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're trying to show off a product. We have to
Speaker 1: contrive part of it. We have to. I mean, you
Speaker 1: know at some level that's that's the way it's done.
Speaker 1: It's the way you have to do it. But you
Speaker 1: just I would say, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go over this, this topic, all this entire podcast, But
Speaker 1: I would just say that, you know, these conversations help
Speaker 1: people think through a little bit and maybe think twice
Speaker 1: when they're about to do something that for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1: And we were talking about early on in this podcast,
Speaker 1: I think it was with Ronella about intrinsic motivation versus
Speaker 1: extrinsic motivation and like doing it because it makes you
Speaker 1: feel a certain way of doing it because it makes
Speaker 1: other people feel a certain way. So I've since I
Speaker 1: learned those fancy words, I've been thinking about that every
Speaker 1: time I do something or post something or take a photo,
Speaker 1: and it's helped the hell that'll I think what how
Speaker 1: I feel about what's going out there in the world
Speaker 1: based on this podcast or just me hunting or whatever
Speaker 1: whatever piece of contents out there. So hopefully these kind
Speaker 1: of conversations and you know, you calling people out or
Speaker 1: just tell them what the hell you think is that
Speaker 1: means something in the hunting community. I think I can't
Speaker 1: even get on a form anymore. A lot of social
Speaker 1: media pages because of all the bs and fighting that
Speaker 1: goes on, and you know a lot of that is
Speaker 1: just not you know, needed, And occasionally when I'll cast
Speaker 1: somebody out, is um you know, if a guy says, hey,
Speaker 1: I you know, my my packway to hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: pounds and I went X amount of or whatever, I'll
Speaker 1: be like, hey, you know, I'm sending a message like,
Speaker 1: hey's one, there's a there's a fine that amount of
Speaker 1: people that can do that. I'm one of them. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think you are. And so you need some
Speaker 1: context behind that before you get some you guys that
Speaker 1: breaks this freakingneecap out because he saw you do it
Speaker 1: or saw you say you did it. You know, I'll
Speaker 1: call guys out on that kind of stuff too, or
Speaker 1: or just stuff that. I mean, does it hurt the industry, No,
Speaker 1: But I mean there's times that you know, you might
Speaker 1: want to throw your two cents in. But in general,
Speaker 1: some of the in fighting is just we have so
Speaker 1: many problems with the antis right now. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: our own worst enemy, whether it be compounds, shipping on
Speaker 1: trad guys, trad guys making fun of compound dudes, rifle hunters,
Speaker 1: you know, getting made fun of my compound guys. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're kind of all in this together and we're doing
Speaker 1: a real shitty job of getting along. Yeah, why do
Speaker 1: you think that is why. I remember coming in the
Speaker 1: industry almost immediately kind of getting in some of these
Speaker 1: circles where you're talking to hunters all the time, and
Speaker 1: one of the first things I remember thinking is, man,
Speaker 1: they fight. We fight a lot about the silliest little things.
Speaker 1: Why why the hell is that? I mean human nature
Speaker 1: and tiny penises? Man? I mean you think about it like,
Speaker 1: I mean, if, I mean truly, like if you if
Speaker 1: you really think about the motive. Um, I've heard. I mean,
Speaker 1: if if you're a guy that only wants to shoot
Speaker 1: four haired and shell, but you show appreciation to a
Speaker 1: guy that shoots a five by five, there's no issue
Speaker 1: with either one. But if you're a guy that hops
Speaker 1: on and says, let's say right now, I'm su recurve, right,
Speaker 1: you're a rightful guy. Um. I can think one guy specifically,
Speaker 1: I won't mention his name, who basically was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think all recurve hunters are stupid. Why don't you
Speaker 1: go out and shoot another four good horn or whatever? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, is he threatened? Is he? I mean?
Speaker 1: Why would he even say that? If not hurting? You
Speaker 1: know him or you see guys getting known in the industry. Um,
Speaker 1: and people hate on him like Cameron is a great example, Like, um,
Speaker 1: guys hate on Cameron constantly. And and I'm not like
Speaker 1: a huge Cameron leg humping fan, right, but you can't
Speaker 1: deny the guy is just a physical you know, beast, right,
Speaker 1: Like the guy's just a machine. He works hard. And
Speaker 1: so if you hate on the guy and you're making
Speaker 1: crazy jokes, why would you do that when he's one
Speaker 1: of the greater spokesmans for the outdoor community, like him
Speaker 1: or not, Why would you publicly bash him? Now? I
Speaker 1: mean I made a couple of nipple jokes about him
Speaker 1: before that you need to put a shirt on, but
Speaker 1: in gen humor. But it's like, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do that no matter who you are. Like, if
Speaker 1: if you've got to set a spandex on and you
Speaker 1: post a photo, you're gonna probably get some kind of
Speaker 1: message from me. That's making cracking jokes just I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hung around with a rough crowd. But if you
Speaker 1: get on and just basically straight up say why the
Speaker 1: hell did you shoot that? I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: it's gonna be envy, jealousy again, small penises and male
Speaker 1: pride um because if you take a big step back.
Speaker 1: If it was your brother that shot that animal, or
Speaker 1: your sister or your mom, are you gonna make fun
Speaker 1: of them? Probably not. But if it's somebody that you
Speaker 1: don't know, because you're always tougher on the computer, you
Speaker 1: can say whatever you want. There's no accountability because I'm
Speaker 1: not saying I'm in capable get my ask beat. But
Speaker 1: there's some people that have said things to me on
Speaker 1: my line, and I guarantee they wouldn't say it to
Speaker 1: my face. And the computer, the internet is a great
Speaker 1: way for people living their mom's basement and talk shit. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean it just did he do? Yeah? I mean
Speaker 1: Cam is Cam Haynes is a great He's as great
Speaker 1: example because he's polarizing for the weirdest reasons. I've hunted
Speaker 1: with Cam many times, not many times, enough times to
Speaker 1: know and hung around him enough times to know that
Speaker 1: he's legit. I mean, the fact that he can run
Speaker 1: two dred miles at a time, it should just end
Speaker 1: the conversation right there. It should end right there. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of people that can challenge
Speaker 1: that guy's ability too much of anything. So he's never
Speaker 1: I've never seen him put post anything that I thought, well,
Speaker 1: that's bad for hunting, Not one time. Um, you know
Speaker 1: it does he you things a little different than some
Speaker 1: other people. Sure, yeah, we all do things different, But
Speaker 1: I've never once thought, well, I need to talk to
Speaker 1: Cam about that thing he's doing because it's it's not
Speaker 1: good for all of us. So yeah, I mean that.
Speaker 1: Then that leaves all the petty people that you're talking
Speaker 1: about with the tiny penis is to talk about how
Speaker 1: big how big is muscles are, or how big the
Speaker 1: animal is and poke at the things that really don't matter.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day. The petty people are
Speaker 1: left to throw shade at at Cam. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: I've seen it a lot. And then the bigger you
Speaker 1: get he's got I don't know how many followers nowadays,
Speaker 1: but the bigger you get, it seems like the more
Speaker 1: hate you get. I think that's just a rule of life.
Speaker 1: Oh I've seen that one myself. Um, luckily I've stayed
Speaker 1: above a frey on some of it, you know, and
Speaker 1: I don't have I'm only get I don't know how
Speaker 1: many followers I got. I don't know. I don't have
Speaker 1: the many as he does, but as it grows right
Speaker 1: like you post. I had a visor on the other
Speaker 1: day on an elk Ive shot, so I immediately posted, hey,
Speaker 1: I got shamed out of wearing the visor before anybody
Speaker 1: may to comment, And some of the messages I got
Speaker 1: were just, I mean, in fun sort of. But I
Speaker 1: was like, it's a visor, right, like I don't have
Speaker 1: the skin of a human on my head. For christ Thicke,
Speaker 1: it's a visor. Well, it's amazing, like wants you get
Speaker 1: to be more known. Whoever can take a pop shot
Speaker 1: at you, whatever it may be, unless you just ship gold,
Speaker 1: they're gonna find a reason to make fun of you.
Speaker 1: And in my case, I think I I think I
Speaker 1: said I've seen Cameron's nipples more than my wife. He
Speaker 1: should put a shirt on for something like that, because
Speaker 1: that's my humor. But man, I would say that to
Speaker 1: his face and I didn't mean anything negative by it.
Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, I see you naked a lot, dude,
Speaker 1: um type of a thing. But I don't That kind
Speaker 1: of stuff doesn't bother me. When guys say crap like
Speaker 1: that about me, it doesn't matter. It's the truly hateful
Speaker 1: stuff that I just cannot believe it gets thrown at people,
Speaker 1: especially good for the community. Yeah, I mean there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are seeing camp stuff, that are
Speaker 1: inspired by camp stuff that that would never understand hunting
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for some of the prisms that he
Speaker 1: puts it through. And I've I've never I mean, I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, think of myself. I think of myself as
Speaker 1: a guy that works at yet to be quite honest,
Speaker 1: and um, this podcast was just a nice way to
Speaker 1: have these kind of conversations and record them U and I.
Speaker 1: But I have rarely I would say, like once every
Speaker 1: couple of posts, I'll get something negative. And usually when
Speaker 1: it's negative, it's far down the rabbit hole. It's pretty
Speaker 1: it's like fuck you, I hope you die, I hope
Speaker 1: your family dies. It's not hey didn't really like that.
Speaker 1: It's it's extreme. So I just chalk that those kind
Speaker 1: of things up to people that just don't know how
Speaker 1: to like human interaction is lost on them. That I
Speaker 1: don't imagine there's any good at it in person, let
Speaker 1: alone on the internet. Yeah, oh yeah for sure. And
Speaker 1: I can say like there's I mean, as far as
Speaker 1: things that people may need to call, like you've mentioned
Speaker 1: like there's not one post he's made that you don't
Speaker 1: need to call and say, hey, I've been a talking
Speaker 1: about it. Oh, I can guarantee there's ship like that
Speaker 1: on my page where you might need to call. Especially
Speaker 1: things I've said, I mean, not horrible, but I mean
Speaker 1: when you're got a mouth like mine or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be things I say that probably I shouldn't, Um,
Speaker 1: but I still try to do my best as far
Speaker 1: as like a good spokesman for the outdoor you know, community,
Speaker 1: and you know, when it comes down to it, like, um,
Speaker 1: what the issues were already having now? Um, if you
Speaker 1: go to I mean I've seen guys bash Rogan and
Speaker 1: I've sent a messages and be like, yeah, let's piss
Speaker 1: on one of the greatest spokesmans we have for hunting
Speaker 1: right now, let's shoot on him. You're fucking moron, Like
Speaker 1: are you stupid? Like he's one of the greatest assets
Speaker 1: we have right now? And what is Rogan to do? Like, oh,
Speaker 1: the guy spot you know he's stupid and bad for honey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think about half the planet smokes pot right now.
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, anybody anybody that attacks that guy. I mean, man,
Speaker 1: he's just a good person. So anybody that's listening to
Speaker 1: this that is thinking about attacking Joe Rogan one, he'll
Speaker 1: kick your ass. Two. He's just a good dude. And
Speaker 1: there's no other way to describe him. So if you
Speaker 1: listen to the podcast he thinks there's some like disingenuous
Speaker 1: nature to anything he says or does, there isn't, I
Speaker 1: promise you that. And he's just I can give you
Speaker 1: twenty examples of just real good things that no one
Speaker 1: would ever know that he did for me and people
Speaker 1: around me. And I'm sure you're the same that he
Speaker 1: just does because he's a good guy and he doesn't
Speaker 1: he doesn't need any accolade accolades for any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's just weird ones like that where that
Speaker 1: person clearly is just looking for something. And like you said,
Speaker 1: I think sometimes hunters fall more prey to that than
Speaker 1: other groups of folks. I don't know this, probably will
Speaker 1: probably never figure out what away by this. Where I
Speaker 1: bounced things off of photography getting it I mean, and
Speaker 1: you know, I hate to say this in a sense
Speaker 1: of like I'm not comparing hunting to photography, but you
Speaker 1: look at on photography forums and social media pages and
Speaker 1: you kind of get the same stuff on there where
Speaker 1: you have haters and you have all this different stuff,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's human nature. For for one. The
Speaker 1: thing is is no one's going to take photography away
Speaker 1: from people, I think and get taken away. So if
Speaker 1: photographers want to fight amongst themselves or un some funk
Speaker 1: on it, you know what I mean, they can throw
Speaker 1: batteries back and forth at each other. But losing the
Speaker 1: right to hunt is a real threat. Um. The second
Speaker 1: moment is a real threat, and so it's a it's
Speaker 1: a different um. I guess it just puts us in
Speaker 1: a different spot light or a different level where we
Speaker 1: really need to watch her mind, you know, mind our
Speaker 1: p's and ques and try to come out of the
Speaker 1: United Front running a bunch of red knick dip shifts.
Speaker 1: We generally come off. Yeah. I mean, I've always said
Speaker 1: that when people say, you know, if if you run
Speaker 1: a company, if hunting was a company, we would nobody
Speaker 1: would buy us. Hunting, the hunting community, industry, hunting as
Speaker 1: a whole average you want to describe it, nobody would
Speaker 1: buy it because it's there's less hunters than ever. Almost
Speaker 1: seems like every year. The public perception of it seems
Speaker 1: like it wanes that every every time somebody shoots a lion.
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot of people in this country
Speaker 1: that truly understand it. I mean, we're getting way better,
Speaker 1: way better as a group, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: us that are pushing towards what I would feel like
Speaker 1: is the right angle. Um. Do you buy that if
Speaker 1: we were, if we were a company that no one
Speaker 1: buy stock and hunting, it would be a difficult sell, um,
Speaker 1: because we've done a bad job at uh selling ourselves. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think that as you as you say that,
Speaker 1: we'll do and better. I mean, I just spent an
Speaker 1: hour on the phone with a Diplarma via w agent,
Speaker 1: a game warden about um a podcast for doing tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but about changing this perception for the greater good of hunting.
Speaker 1: Meaning it's informing representing what we do in a better light.
Speaker 1: How do we do that? Like you know? Um? Is
Speaker 1: it is it bad to take a picture of a
Speaker 1: photo of a deer in the back of a truck
Speaker 1: with beer tans in the back? I mean, do whatever
Speaker 1: you want, but don't post that ship on social media.
Speaker 1: I masturbate every day, No one needs to know, don't
Speaker 1: post it on social media, right, Like there's some ships
Speaker 1: that are left untold, and that's what I just don't understand. What, guys,
Speaker 1: do you need to have the l hanging from the
Speaker 1: fucking forklift and take a photo of it? Yeah, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, but why do you need to tell
Speaker 1: everyone and show everyone. That's where we need to really
Speaker 1: police our ols on that kind of behavior. I don't
Speaker 1: have a problem with. That's how you cleaned in. I
Speaker 1: don't think it needs to be posted for the world
Speaker 1: to see, does it? Because it because it does put
Speaker 1: you in a bad lay. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: how you feel about that. Yeah, I mean that that's
Speaker 1: the thing like we we were taught. I was on
Speaker 1: this panel with I don't know how much ever, listen
Speaker 1: to Shane Mahoney, but that dude's he's one of a kind.
Speaker 1: He's pretty special dude, especially Shane Mahoney. You know Shane
Speaker 1: at all, m um So Shane, it was was talking
Speaker 1: about there's four teams. Say there's fourteen million hunters. We
Speaker 1: know there's eleven million or so now, but whatever the
Speaker 1: number is, let's say there's eleven million hunters. Every single
Speaker 1: one of them has a chance to be a pr
Speaker 1: agent for hunting. Everyone has a chance. Not everyone will,
Speaker 1: but everyone has a chance. Like you have a choice
Speaker 1: whether to be good or bad for hunting. And that's
Speaker 1: what's both encouraging and scary about this next generation. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm thirty two my generation. What's an encouraging about it
Speaker 1: is everybody has a voice. What's what's scary about it
Speaker 1: is everybody has a voice. And so that's why I
Speaker 1: think this conversation is important. One because we haven't a
Speaker 1: generationally haven't done a shitty job at framing hunting up
Speaker 1: and talking about all the good things. And then too,
Speaker 1: because there's eleven million people that are out there hunting
Speaker 1: that can all tell their own story, for good or bad.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why, you know, us talking about
Speaker 1: this for half an hour podcast is a thing that
Speaker 1: has to continue to happen because it's such an important
Speaker 1: topic because there's so many people that have a chance
Speaker 1: to impact what you and I do for a living,
Speaker 1: whether we want to go to hunt bears and grizzly
Speaker 1: bears and b c or or mountain lions in California
Speaker 1: or whatever we can't currently do. We may not be
Speaker 1: able to to go do the thing we want to
Speaker 1: do tomorrow because somebody, you know, posted something that was
Speaker 1: socially unacceptable. M hmm, well yeah, I think that's yeah.
Speaker 1: The answer to the answer to that question is is
Speaker 1: very much just we gotta dial with in. Everybody has
Speaker 1: to dial it in as a group, really do no. No,
Speaker 1: I agree? Um, and I think as a whole. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, and this is coming in I said this
Speaker 1: million times on Bryant's podcast. I mean, this is coming
Speaker 1: from a redneck kind of a bloodthirsty When I say bloodthirsty,
Speaker 1: what can be perceived as blood thirsty? Guy? Um? And
Speaker 1: it probably ten years ago, was the worst spokesman for
Speaker 1: Honey because I didn't have a brain. I was a
Speaker 1: dumb ship, right. I mean, I just but as you
Speaker 1: as you are exposed to all these different things, right,
Speaker 1: and all these you know, it's a it's a collective
Speaker 1: of Yeah. I mean, your life is the book, right,
Speaker 1: you got all these different chapters, and you know is
Speaker 1: the book goes on towards the industry chapter. As you're
Speaker 1: reading chapter forty through fifty, you're gonna probably seem a
Speaker 1: lot more intelligent. You did a chapter once or five
Speaker 1: because you've you've learned, right. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that I learned is as I grow in the outdoor
Speaker 1: industry and I have a odium to speak on or
Speaker 1: I'm doing cardio and bump into people to see I'm
Speaker 1: wearing a camel pack. Take that that that that point
Speaker 1: in time in your life or whatever to to to
Speaker 1: shed a shining, bright, happy blowing beacon on hunting and
Speaker 1: not act like a fucking dumbass, right and and and
Speaker 1: I think that when there's these two paths that people
Speaker 1: have to take a right and and help hunting and
Speaker 1: take a lesson look like a dumb ship. I mean
Speaker 1: it seems like a fifty fifty sometimes on what they do.
Speaker 1: Like you run into somebody at a trailhead that says
Speaker 1: I don't like hunters. Well you can come back and say,
Speaker 1: I don't give a ship what you like your dump
Speaker 1: and you start screaming at him already say hey, I
Speaker 1: understand that. Why Hey, you know, I I don't mind
Speaker 1: discussing this, like, hey, let's let's talk about it. Like
Speaker 1: I don't want you to have a poor opinion of
Speaker 1: me just because I hunt. Let's talk. I've done that.
Speaker 1: I mean, like the you know, Boulder, Colorado, right, like
Speaker 1: you can't find them more well they you want, right,
Speaker 1: I'm in Denver, but you're not going to find more
Speaker 1: liberal people in the trail has been here. But I
Speaker 1: have found it hugely helpful to be fairly well spoken
Speaker 1: and have some data behind you and be able to
Speaker 1: represent hunting in a strong um. I say argument, but
Speaker 1: an argument, you know, and let him know what happens
Speaker 1: and why, how the circle of life works, rather than
Speaker 1: just saying, oh, shut up, you dumb ship and grab
Speaker 1: your weapon and walk away. Well, I just put another
Speaker 1: black eye on hunting. I may, I may want to
Speaker 1: say that, but don't I feel you unsent. I've had
Speaker 1: a few conversations with people and it seems like the
Speaker 1: person that doesn't agree with with hunting, or you know,
Speaker 1: you label a manti hunter if you want to what
Speaker 1: a person is ignorant about it or doesn't agree with
Speaker 1: it is the is the aggressor in the beginning, like
Speaker 1: they're pushing your buttons to see how you're going to react.
Speaker 1: I've had that in person a few times, where someone
Speaker 1: was pushing my buttons just to see see how I
Speaker 1: would react, or or just because they they had their
Speaker 1: own preconceived notions. They wanted to see how that conversation
Speaker 1: would go and see if I would revert to my
Speaker 1: red neck you know, pound my chest and run out
Speaker 1: of the room. Um, revert to my redneck status as
Speaker 1: a as you know, I'm like you, man, I came
Speaker 1: from I came from shoot a spike. Anything with antlers
Speaker 1: on its head got shot. And we didn't we didn't
Speaker 1: discuss much other than was it a two point or
Speaker 1: a four point or an eight point? That was our
Speaker 1: only the only way we talked about antlers. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I think some people who don't agree with they are
Speaker 1: expecting that kman response from me, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: what they want. And if you give it to him,
Speaker 1: then you're losing it. You're losing the battle. Yeah. No, no,
Speaker 1: I I agree. And you know, I've talked to like
Speaker 1: Calhan and I I mean I don't I don't really
Speaker 1: have talked to Romela too much. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: obviously being in the industry and in a position, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean I've hunted with Calhan quite a bit. And again,
Speaker 1: I mean every he did a great job. I mean
Speaker 1: the mustache shell said, right shave that those other clown
Speaker 1: haircut there Jesus. On that loose time we were on
Speaker 1: he had fourteen He had like a skullet man like
Speaker 1: like full on comb over hair, and I'm like, you
Speaker 1: just shave that should off and keep the dash man
Speaker 1: at pamp. But you know, he and I profited ton
Speaker 1: um about different stuff like this. And again, I mean
Speaker 1: you think about it. Sixty five days a year. Half
Speaker 1: of those you probably have a chance to shed a
Speaker 1: brighter light on hunting. And people need to take that
Speaker 1: every chance they get, whether you're a cross fit at jim.
Speaker 1: You know photography, UM, you know not to preach this.
Speaker 1: If I'm snapping photos the giant running mule deer in
Speaker 1: an area where I'm surrounded by National Geographic photographers and
Speaker 1: they figure out on a hunter, I just look at
Speaker 1: that as a bonus. But I need to look at
Speaker 1: that as a bonus and take that opportunity that they
Speaker 1: see is intelligent. He's taking photo, Okay, he backpacks in
Speaker 1: or he does this. Oh yeah, no, I understand and
Speaker 1: use that opportunity rather than UM one either hiding from
Speaker 1: it because you're not spreading the word an intelligent word UM,
Speaker 1: or two just getting from bative which and it never
Speaker 1: goes anywhere. And I'm a trombative guy, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't be in that situation. Yeah, And I wonder, like,
Speaker 1: you know, because Yetie, we deal with a lot of
Speaker 1: I mean, we deal with climbers and skiers. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm talking top level influencers in these worlds, you know,
Speaker 1: the guys like in climbing, guys like Conrad Anchor and
Speaker 1: Jimmy Chen, people who are you know, super influential, not
Speaker 1: only in those smaller communities, but just in that outdoor
Speaker 1: wreck community overall. And I just wonder how much and
Speaker 1: I have no idea how much in those groups they
Speaker 1: talk like this, how much they say, Man, we all
Speaker 1: got to pull together and shine a better light on climbing,
Speaker 1: or we all got to pull together and shine a
Speaker 1: better light on skiing. I'm man, it's great that we
Speaker 1: can have that conversation, this one. As much as some
Speaker 1: of it could be negative pointed towards the negative, the
Speaker 1: whole purpose of the damn thing is that so we
Speaker 1: can all get better and keep doing it because we
Speaker 1: love it to day much. And so I just wonder
Speaker 1: that sometimes outside of in the national geographic world, are
Speaker 1: they more pointed towards other communities. Are they ever to
Speaker 1: look inside of their own stuff and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: we can do this better or that better. I wonder
Speaker 1: about that because I know that's the reason why I
Speaker 1: love doing this, because this conversation is all about getting better.
Speaker 1: Even if you have to point out a few people
Speaker 1: that are poking holes in the boat to uh, to
Speaker 1: get there. Yeah, and I tell you what the pointing
Speaker 1: out poken hole in the boat people? UM, I have
Speaker 1: found that could be difficult to get best because you know,
Speaker 1: some people may not know that they're shooting holes in
Speaker 1: the boat. Was you know, fifty cow and other people
Speaker 1: may be locked and loaded with you know, the mob
Speaker 1: is just firing away like I don't give a ship. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I I just think like, um, if you're
Speaker 1: wanting to be grow Second Amendment, UM, pro rate at
Speaker 1: whatever if you if you if you're wanting to to
Speaker 1: do that, UM, I think it's great. I just think
Speaker 1: that showing bloody dead animals laying all over the place
Speaker 1: is shooting some big holes in the boat. Um. Even
Speaker 1: though you may think like, well it so it has written,
Speaker 1: so shall it be done? This is how it's been
Speaker 1: in history and it can't change. Oh, it can change,
Speaker 1: and it's rocking changing quick. And so what I mean,
Speaker 1: have them somepford when you point those things out to
Speaker 1: those people, Maybe just not you know, throw it in
Speaker 1: their face. But I also say, hey, man, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been really thinking about this, and I think maybe
Speaker 1: you know, you might want to try and do with this.
Speaker 1: This might help out a bit more. You know that
Speaker 1: the messages you're kind of putting out now or giving
Speaker 1: us a black eye, I mean, you can only do
Speaker 1: so much. But I mean it's it's always worth to try.
Speaker 1: I guess that I'm saying that. I know I've had
Speaker 1: probably fifty fifty luck at that when I spent messages
Speaker 1: like hey, coming from a fellow redneck man, you may
Speaker 1: want to change what you're doing. Sometimes it's receives well,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's not received at all, and I get unfriendedden blocked.
Speaker 1: So damn people are savage on the internet. I don't
Speaker 1: like what you're saying. Don't ever say anything to me
Speaker 1: again savage. Yeah, exactly where you can't get punched in
Speaker 1: the face on the internet. Man, that would solve a
Speaker 1: lot of problems. I hate to say it that way,
Speaker 1: but you think about it. When people act that the
Speaker 1: way they do in their cars, on the phone or
Speaker 1: on the internet, if they can get whacked in the noggain, No,
Speaker 1: there's no accountability, So there are some savages on there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's in the basement of your month's house. Do you
Speaker 1: ever feel like that? Is this? Like you have that
Speaker 1: great platform that you do. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people watching what you do based on a lot
Speaker 1: of on a lot of reasons. But then at the
Speaker 1: same time that platform is this this Pandora's box that
Speaker 1: you open it up and next thing you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of assholes stroll through and and uh get ruined
Speaker 1: your day, or at least you get you fired up
Speaker 1: for a moment. Like sometimes I like having had as
Speaker 1: much of that as as some people have. But sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm I wonder if I'd say I pull off for
Speaker 1: a couple of months, would my hunting life be different
Speaker 1: when I feel less influential even though the people around
Speaker 1: me um that I'm hunting with our learned from me
Speaker 1: and I'm learned from them. Social media is it's the
Speaker 1: son of a bit. Yeah, I mean, and I talked
Speaker 1: quite a bit, and I mean, you know, who Aaron
Speaker 1: Nielsen is. He was the guy had on the podcast.
Speaker 1: He was like, if you look at trophy hunting, he's
Speaker 1: a he's got a photo in additionary beside, he's right there.
Speaker 1: And he was the guy brought on the podcast because
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, he put he has views, um,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, nobody's living for sustiments off
Speaker 1: of meat in this whole meat eating, anti trophy hunting
Speaker 1: is going to be the end of of the outdoor industry.
Speaker 1: And and so I brought him on one for more context,
Speaker 1: like what exactly are you talking about? Because I was like, know, Aaron,
Speaker 1: I just shot a go and took a photo behind it.
Speaker 1: That was my trophy. And I don't have a problem
Speaker 1: saying that that. You know, that was important to me.
Speaker 1: And he was saying that we're going to be there.
Speaker 1: You know that the trophy hunting thing hiding behind it
Speaker 1: was um giving us a black guy that we needed
Speaker 1: to be proud of it. And and you know, he's
Speaker 1: obviously becoming a very trophy hunting in a large background
Speaker 1: and you guys are actually a sponsor of him and
Speaker 1: or he had Triggy count Outdoors, I think is what
Speaker 1: it is. But anyway, you know, talking with him, you
Speaker 1: know he stops on it aren't a whole lot different
Speaker 1: than other people's. That's how it's perceived or how he
Speaker 1: came across. And I just think that a good example.
Speaker 1: If um, you were to um say that I paid
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand, or raid it, I paid four hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for the Montana sheep tag um that prostitution
Speaker 1: of an animal. It's sure fucking funds like it out
Speaker 1: the gate right four thousand dollars for one bullet. But
Speaker 1: in context that four hundred thousand dollars went to the
Speaker 1: conservation habitat. Um. Telling the story of where that money goes,
Speaker 1: how much it helps, probably gonna shed quite a bit
Speaker 1: of a different light on it than Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that show up in a building and
Speaker 1: bid on animals for a ridiculous amount of money so
Speaker 1: they can hang it on their wall and found their
Speaker 1: chest that they looked in. It comes across that way
Speaker 1: rather than saying and explaining that that goes to conservation
Speaker 1: and the betterment of habitat for wild sheep. Um. So
Speaker 1: it's all all about context and telling the story that
Speaker 1: to me than then it is anything else. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you can really shoot on a good thing
Speaker 1: if you're not careful. Well we do. We allow that
Speaker 1: to happen, though, that ship would like you go to
Speaker 1: you know, I know you're not a trade show guy,
Speaker 1: but I go to SCI every year and there's some
Speaker 1: stuff at SCI that is just pretty appalling. Like I'll
Speaker 1: call it out straight up. I mean, I'm not I
Speaker 1: have no problem with saying, hey, s C, I clean
Speaker 1: up some of your trophy hunting ship, Like, just do
Speaker 1: that for for me and for Aaron, for anybody else
Speaker 1: listening like that. I was there this year and you
Speaker 1: walk by and there's a sign um for a dollar
Speaker 1: elephant hunt. I think it was something like that from
Speaker 1: an outfitter and below it it was like book a
Speaker 1: child sixteen and under or a military veteran and receive
Speaker 1: a free impala, it said, and it was like a
Speaker 1: gold lettering and a flashing sign. They're treating an animal.
Speaker 1: And I thought for a minute they were talking about
Speaker 1: a Chevy and Paula. I thought, damn, you get a
Speaker 1: Chevy and polyph on an elephant. That's a badass, um.
Speaker 1: But they were talking about an animal. They were selling
Speaker 1: an animal like it was part of a swag bag
Speaker 1: or some ship, and that kind of stuff. That's never
Speaker 1: gonna fly with normal society. They're never going to understand
Speaker 1: that because it's not as far as valuing an animal.
Speaker 1: That's not right as long as that stuff is allowed
Speaker 1: to exist inside of this great conservation resource that I see,
Speaker 1: I could be. It's never gonna be. It's always gonna
Speaker 1: be an oxymoron. Yeah, no, no, And I understand that.
Speaker 1: And I mean I I talked with um, you know,
Speaker 1: Brian about some of the things you guys had talked,
Speaker 1: like the grip and grin thing, like I told, you know,
Speaker 1: Brian got beat up about that badly, and I'm like, Brian,
Speaker 1: you know, damn good and will the moment you shoot
Speaker 1: an animal, you take a grip and grin. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't say I didn't like him, you know, the
Speaker 1: bid had said he didn't like him, and then he
Speaker 1: explained it more depth and and and my thing was like,
Speaker 1: I think a grip and grin isn't the hunts if
Speaker 1: you have told the story from beginning to end. And
Speaker 1: I guess, like with the s c I, or like
Speaker 1: with anything else or like I talked about Wild Cheap,
Speaker 1: which they do a great job. I'm not I mean
Speaker 1: they do a great job with they do. But um,
Speaker 1: if you leave context out and someone just walks up
Speaker 1: and you see we're gonna you know, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: you get this prostitute and we're going to give you
Speaker 1: a free blow job while we're at it, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: sounds pretty bad, right, That's horrible. Where if if you say, hey,
Speaker 1: we're in it for veterans and show them are like um,
Speaker 1: and and maybe not show them the other free death
Speaker 1: to go along with it, you know, you probably could
Speaker 1: do a little bit better job still maybe have the
Speaker 1: end years old, but not look quite so bad doing it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that the conversation with Brian on that
Speaker 1: podcast I've said in on on this podcast and in
Speaker 1: the last couple of episodes, like I will say that
Speaker 1: my frame of mind going into that podcast with Brian
Speaker 1: was not good. I've been sick for like seven days
Speaker 1: of the trade show flew and I was walking around
Speaker 1: a t A and I was seeing so many group
Speaker 1: and grinds on big billboards and just looking at this like,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, normally am I'm of the mindset
Speaker 1: like do it if you want, but just don't you know,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do it in hunting, understand that it
Speaker 1: affects me. And I just I was sitting at the
Speaker 1: Hoyt booth and God bless hoy they make great bows,
Speaker 1: but they had these like the trading cards of every
Speaker 1: one of their pro ambassador athletes type folks with the
Speaker 1: with the group and grant on it. And I just
Speaker 1: I think I had a little bit had enough at
Speaker 1: that point and I probably said, you know, we should
Speaker 1: just quit doing this, where normally I would hedge that
Speaker 1: bet a little bit. But I'm glad it happened that
Speaker 1: way because that's kind of how I feel now. Um,
Speaker 1: And that's it's nuance. It's not just that one opinion,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, that's how I kind of how
Speaker 1: I feel well. And I think with what you're saying
Speaker 1: is is not um, I kind of think somewhat of
Speaker 1: the same things and somewhat different to where I think
Speaker 1: that one, you should never be ashamed of an animal
Speaker 1: you've taken. So when you look at trophy, what bothers
Speaker 1: me about trophy as a people immediately think, I mean
Speaker 1: true trophy, honey, I guess you look, definition is shooting
Speaker 1: the oldest age species, That the oldest animal in the group, right,
Speaker 1: like you're looking for the oldest species. But that it's
Speaker 1: a broad, very broad, very very broad hunting community of
Speaker 1: all different ability levels, of all different financial levels. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a trophy for a guy starting out is
Speaker 1: going to probably be a doe or a cow. Right,
Speaker 1: that's his his technically trophy. Well, I don't think he
Speaker 1: should hide. I don't think he should be ashamed of
Speaker 1: what he shout. I mean, I don't think that you
Speaker 1: should be ashamed of anything, any animal. Any A life
Speaker 1: is alife, and you know my thing isn't necessarily high
Speaker 1: behind grip and grins, but be proud of everything you do.
Speaker 1: And being ashamed of animals that you've taken because it's
Speaker 1: not big enough is just as bad for the industry
Speaker 1: is anything else, because it makes it look like my
Speaker 1: penis wasn't big enough. Today, I don't have enough stripes
Speaker 1: on my shoulder and I'm gonna put my head down
Speaker 1: because I only shot a cow. Ye. Well, I don't
Speaker 1: think that's good either. Um personally, I think that um,
Speaker 1: the community, you should be happy for anyone now don't
Speaker 1: give me your Um you got a hundred thousand followers
Speaker 1: on social media and your spirit of influence you only
Speaker 1: shot of shot of grouse. Yeah, I think that ship's
Speaker 1: bad too, right, I mean, what kind of a spokes
Speaker 1: and money for hunting if you don't know how to hunt?
Speaker 1: I think you might be not diving into a different
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But um, I don't know that that's the
Speaker 1: greatest thing for hunting either, that that we have some
Speaker 1: people in the spears of influence that for hunting that
Speaker 1: don't really know how to hunt. I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's a good thing. But I think, um, you know,
Speaker 1: being proud of everything that you do, representing hunting in
Speaker 1: the right light, telling story about what you did, and
Speaker 1: everyone actually kind of getting along with that and being
Speaker 1: supportive is the is the going to be the best
Speaker 1: thing we have for the future. Rather than everybody making
Speaker 1: fun of each other and ship talking and everything else
Speaker 1: they don't know the text is going to really get
Speaker 1: us anywhere. Ye times already well, yeah, we've been probably
Speaker 1: beating the horse to death at this point. But I
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, it's there's the nuance thing,
Speaker 1: the grip and grint isn't It isn't just one thing. Like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things the ways that can show up.
Speaker 1: And I would always I always just what I would
Speaker 1: my opinion as it's evolved through. You know, from that
Speaker 1: conversation with Brian on is just that what you need
Speaker 1: to know what your potential for your audience is. If
Speaker 1: you understand the potential for your audience, then you're always gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, act accordingly. If the potential is a million
Speaker 1: people to see it, then you should we should be
Speaker 1: able to hedge a little bit of potential. Is just
Speaker 1: your buddy who you texted it too, then you can
Speaker 1: be a little more open with what you're saying. And
Speaker 1: then and and then just understand what the grip and
Speaker 1: grand is too people that aren't hunters. I just understand
Speaker 1: that and be aware of it and then act act
Speaker 1: accordingly based on your awareness of what what it means
Speaker 1: to people that don't do it. And if you can
Speaker 1: kind of get on those two planes. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not against the prideful showing of killing an animal. Crap,
Speaker 1: I've done it my whole life. Um, But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think even that conversation, I had a
Speaker 1: lot of feedback, people just who are thinking a little
Speaker 1: bit more about it than they did before. And I
Speaker 1: think that's really the only goal. Think about it a
Speaker 1: little bit more than you did yesterday, be more aware
Speaker 1: of of some of the things maybe you weren't so
Speaker 1: aware of yesterday, and then we'll all be better for it.
Speaker 1: And then ten years down the road, maybe this whole
Speaker 1: thing looks different than it those right now. Man. I
Speaker 1: hope and and I I you know again, like there's something.
Speaker 1: I mean, not everyone agrees, but we can agree to
Speaker 1: disagree and talk about I think that's great. And I
Speaker 1: think that again when you when you go down to
Speaker 1: I don't pick up whatever. I go down to the
Speaker 1: local mountaineering store and um, a guy asked me if
Speaker 1: I hunt, because I said, I need boosts that are
Speaker 1: capable or stiff because I'm gonna be carrying hunter. Plot
Speaker 1: asked why, and I said, well, I'm a hunter. And
Speaker 1: the next thing you do, I I flashed through seventy
Speaker 1: five photos of dead animals. That might be cool to him,
Speaker 1: but it also might be cool to him to start
Speaker 1: scrolling through and say, yeah, man, this is the maroon
Speaker 1: bells I was. I was actually one part of the
Speaker 1: four pass loop when I spotted this deer. You know,
Speaker 1: I was right on this summit. Actually there's whatever, and
Speaker 1: and then here's my camp, you know, and yeah, holy coward,
Speaker 1: we were a long way than it snowed like crazy.
Speaker 1: I think that, in my opinion, is perceived far better
Speaker 1: than seventy five photos of straight death right, because he
Speaker 1: sees what you did, he sees your hearts into it,
Speaker 1: he sees the training you did that you backpacked in
Speaker 1: or whatever it is um rather than just seventy five
Speaker 1: photos to standing behind big gear or big Elk or
Speaker 1: big whatever. And so I agree with you on some
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Coolheartedly. I do that when you walk
Speaker 1: in and all you see is giant dead ship with
Speaker 1: people behind it, that it can look really bad from
Speaker 1: a non perspective. And and and I and again I'm
Speaker 1: coming from a redneck background where I could get ship
Speaker 1: myself too. But again I just especially with photography and
Speaker 1: the hiking the backpacking side of things, I am more
Speaker 1: involved now with anti and non hunters by far than
Speaker 1: I thought I would ever be. And I know what
Speaker 1: I will argue to the death. I know what it
Speaker 1: takes to convert them. I know what and I've had
Speaker 1: great luck with it. And so that's where when guys
Speaker 1: start arguing with me, I'm like, look, it's not an argument.
Speaker 1: This happened yesterday, happened last week, and this is what
Speaker 1: I did. And as sure as ship wasn't showing a
Speaker 1: two well, I don't have a two ten inchmul here,
Speaker 1: But as sure as wasn't showing giant animals over and over,
Speaker 1: it was showing a sacrifice to dedication with training, explaining
Speaker 1: about shooting a bow, explaining about breaking down the animal,
Speaker 1: ex explaining about how much meat I brought home, um
Speaker 1: in comparison to here's my giant animal that had my boots. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: that trophy hunting and that that is where I think
Speaker 1: we get a black guy. Well right, and you get
Speaker 1: and again I keep bringing them up. But Rogan is
Speaker 1: a good example. Rogan has been I've taken many grip
Speaker 1: and griends of Joe Rogan. Um besides thinks he's killed
Speaker 1: and he's taken some of me and vice versa. But
Speaker 1: rarely has anyone ever seen them. Sometimes, like Cam Haynes
Speaker 1: or John Dudl, theres somebody will post one um, but
Speaker 1: but Joe will never post one and I think he's
Speaker 1: thinking about just like what you're saying. I mean, they're
Speaker 1: like gripp and girls are kind of like trading cards
Speaker 1: that we can trade amongst ourselves. And that's great, and
Speaker 1: we all understand. Everybody that's hunted for any length of
Speaker 1: time that's in the community gets what they are trading
Speaker 1: back fourth and it's all great. But when you start
Speaker 1: sharing with people that have that aren't in our club,
Speaker 1: it's a little complicated. And so I think Joe's great
Speaker 1: example somebody who just doesn't share to his three million
Speaker 1: people that follow him on whatever social media, but he
Speaker 1: will share it amongst his buddies and amongst his family
Speaker 1: and friends. They see those photos because they know him
Speaker 1: and they know his intense. Um that's so, that's a
Speaker 1: good He's got a good, pretty good program working there,
Speaker 1: I think. Um So, Aaron, tell me a little bit
Speaker 1: about Kafaro, because you know, I know we've been railing
Speaker 1: on how to make hunting better. But um, I'm a
Speaker 1: bit of a pack junkie. I don't know if that's
Speaker 1: the right term, but I love I think packs and
Speaker 1: boots are the two things that are most specific to
Speaker 1: mountain hunting. Um, So tell me about you know how
Speaker 1: you got started with Kafaro and just what's going on
Speaker 1: over there. But it's kind of crazy, um how it
Speaker 1: all worked out. It was like a meant to be,
Speaker 1: UM saying. Patrick Smith started Mountain Smith, which was like
Speaker 1: a backpacking company, um years ago and he sold it,
Speaker 1: um and then started too far through and he Patrick
Speaker 1: said that he had three daughters, so he never had
Speaker 1: somebody to really take over the throne, so to speak. Um,
Speaker 1: the three daughters didn't hunt. Their husband's been really hunting. Um.
Speaker 1: I was reviewing a bunch of gear and backpacks and
Speaker 1: I guess it's eight years ago, No, six or seven
Speaker 1: years ago, now, whatever it was. I walked in finally
Speaker 1: got ahold of Patrick to test out some packs. We
Speaker 1: started talking and helped him with some designs and um,
Speaker 1: they kind of brought me on as I was working
Speaker 1: construction at the time. Is like a consultant slash sales rep.
Speaker 1: Kind of a position where I was making a little
Speaker 1: bit of money. And um, why I'm with the you know,
Speaker 1: the CEO and president now, um, and he took me on.
Speaker 1: I looked at him like a father and he One
Speaker 1: of the unique things with Patrick is one of my
Speaker 1: job descriptions as I will spend a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: nine the year in the wilderness without a doubt, without
Speaker 1: fail um. And one of that things is that he
Speaker 1: he had pressed upon several things upon me. One was
Speaker 1: made in America, staying made in America. No matter what,
Speaker 1: we will always be American made, not just American made,
Speaker 1: but American components, American everything. Two was lead by example
Speaker 1: in by our customers, meaning I want you to be
Speaker 1: the fittest you can possibly be. I want you to
Speaker 1: be in the field as much as you possibly can.
Speaker 1: I want you packing out as many animals as you can.
Speaker 1: And I want you near death at least fifteen times
Speaker 1: a year to know what gear we can design to
Speaker 1: make you not near death the next year. Now, how
Speaker 1: often do you walk into a job like that where
Speaker 1: I lived to live in the woods, and then the
Speaker 1: guy that becomes your father slash boss says, hearing your
Speaker 1: acts staying out there a hundred fifty nights a year
Speaker 1: without fail Well, I mean so people are like you know,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things why people listen to me
Speaker 1: with gear is I mean, there's so much that I mean,
Speaker 1: I for me a hundred fifty nine the years the
Speaker 1: light year. Um, that's I mean, I've I've hit two
Speaker 1: twenty a few times and uh and uh you learn
Speaker 1: a lot when you're out there, and you learn a
Speaker 1: lot about designing your product. And so that's been a
Speaker 1: huge thing that he ingrained in my brain. And and
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully when I can't walk anymore, I'm going
Speaker 1: to pass this down to Frank, you know, my my partner,
Speaker 1: and crime where you can do it to these younger Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of things there that are interesting. One,
Speaker 1: that's the dream job for anybody likes to go hunt
Speaker 1: and hike. And do you feel like back packing back
Speaker 1: country honey, whatever you want to describe that is was
Speaker 1: always part of your DNA and that's why you got
Speaker 1: there or did you at some point learn, you know,
Speaker 1: go from away from your redneck ways and just become
Speaker 1: dial Well I I say that, man. I never was
Speaker 1: a gun hunter, really, Um, I was when I was
Speaker 1: a kid. Um there was a my when I was fourteen.
Speaker 1: I it was the Youth Conservation Corps, something you did
Speaker 1: with the Forest Service. And I joined that, which is
Speaker 1: usually cleaning out porter parties and cleaning up state parks
Speaker 1: and the people on the trail crew knew me and
Speaker 1: asked if they could what paperwork they need to fill
Speaker 1: out to get this kid, meaning me on this trail crew.
Speaker 1: Well that changed my life forever because I hyped ten
Speaker 1: miles a day as a minimum, and all I did
Speaker 1: was carried a cross cut song and acts over my
Speaker 1: shoulders a fourteen year old kid cleaning off wilderness trails.
Speaker 1: Um in the midst of that, with my red neck
Speaker 1: upbringing is a you know, like dad driving around drinking,
Speaker 1: you know, basically shooting it out of the window. Um
Speaker 1: As I hyped in there's all these deer that I
Speaker 1: never saw, you know what I mean? Like my there's
Speaker 1: animals ever to we're back here. Well, so at an
Speaker 1: extremely young age, I learned how to backpack. And I mean,
Speaker 1: you know from from experts. Guys. These guys climbed everest.
Speaker 1: This was their side job, right, this is what they
Speaker 1: did to make money so they could go climb, so
Speaker 1: they could do whatever. And so I learned that extremely young.
Speaker 1: I did that all through high school for three months
Speaker 1: in my summer months. And the one that made me
Speaker 1: a bit more of a man because I'm swinging in
Speaker 1: an accident, you know how cross cuts on my hand
Speaker 1: it we had double buck and single buck saws and uh.
Speaker 1: Once I did that, that kind of trance and I
Speaker 1: and I was in the army for a while um
Speaker 1: as well, and that just taught me how to get
Speaker 1: beat up UM a little bit better. But all of
Speaker 1: those things combined the moment I got out of the military, well,
Speaker 1: I got fat first, but then I got super fit
Speaker 1: and all I could do with backpack. All I did
Speaker 1: was backpack like over. No mountain was too high, no
Speaker 1: lake was too far. We pack and flow to be
Speaker 1: you know we you know, I mean on a very
Speaker 1: I was broke as a joke, but I always backpack
Speaker 1: hunted and so that was like just my thing. And
Speaker 1: then as time went on, I was seeing some videos
Speaker 1: from Cameron and south Cox and and backpack hunting wasn't
Speaker 1: really known. Now backpack hunting is known, and you can't
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you run into people constantly on
Speaker 1: the wilderness. So this job for me, I mean, Patrick's
Speaker 1: told me many times, he's like, You're the son I
Speaker 1: never had, and really a godsend for my family because
Speaker 1: you or everything I needed to take over from the company.
Speaker 1: Now I'm a bit wilder probably than they wanted. But
Speaker 1: you know it was a perfect fit. Um so it
Speaker 1: was great. Off there for a minute, but I love it.
Speaker 1: It was great. I can hear you can hear it
Speaker 1: your voice, man, you can hear it. You love it.
Speaker 1: And that's freaking as somebody who you know, any product
Speaker 1: of any company, that's that's all. It really matters that
Speaker 1: the people making it love the thing that it's made
Speaker 1: or and that comes through and your packs for sure.
Speaker 1: How much has it packs changed over the years that
Speaker 1: you've been doing and how much do you feel like
Speaker 1: they will change it? I can I can tell you
Speaker 1: right now. The pack I used to hold it. I
Speaker 1: used to carry an old army rucksack to the deer
Speaker 1: stand when I was sixteen, and now it's a lot
Speaker 1: different than that. But how are they changing. Well, they've
Speaker 1: changed a lot in the sense of the bags and
Speaker 1: the materials are changing. The the platform that Patrick started
Speaker 1: with us far the suspension, I've changed some of the
Speaker 1: design that the bases there. Um really, I've changed materials.
Speaker 1: I've changed some of the connection points. The base design
Speaker 1: hasn't changed at all. The bags have changed, the materials changing,
Speaker 1: I mean technology right, like hydrophobic foam so it doesn't
Speaker 1: think as bad waterproof material, tougher material that will last longer.
Speaker 1: You know, the the never ending rabbit hole of lighter
Speaker 1: weight UM. You know, we're able to push things far
Speaker 1: farther and farther UM, which is really one of my
Speaker 1: my job when we go off the deep end on lightweight,
Speaker 1: pushing something to as lightweight as possible. You know, that's
Speaker 1: my job to go pack out twenty three animals a
Speaker 1: year to see can it take it? Right? Like we
Speaker 1: just came out with a new crazy lightweight frame and uh,
Speaker 1: you know that was the main job is I had
Speaker 1: to have fifty animals in that frame in a minimum
Speaker 1: amount of miles. That's how we testing um before it
Speaker 1: would even pass muster to go on to the next level.
Speaker 1: Most companies don't do that ship anymore, man. I mean
Speaker 1: they designed it in an office and go hike ground
Speaker 1: and that's it. Well, you know, as we change these things,
Speaker 1: they also have to be vetted and so next time
Speaker 1: in the field and boots on the ground. I probably
Speaker 1: be able to walk when I'm sixty, but damn, I
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun testament stuff out in the meantime.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I just keep thinking about your gig
Speaker 1: and your minimums. Your mandatory minimum hiking hours is just
Speaker 1: freaking badass, is It's I just ordered some boots from
Speaker 1: a boot company and they sent me a set for
Speaker 1: free to try to review, and I fell in love
Speaker 1: with him. And I called I said I need two
Speaker 1: more sets, and they're like, well you mean, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll burn through these things in no time. They're like, dude,
Speaker 1: it's one of our most durable boots. And I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know again, so I need two more sets. I
Speaker 1: don't care what to pay for him. I need him
Speaker 1: because I'm putting that many miles on the ground in
Speaker 1: one season, the astronomical amount. And uh so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's definitely some crazy standards with Patrick just putting
Speaker 1: me up against, but it keeps me out of the office. Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: how are it like people out there that aren't aren't
Speaker 1: hitting your minimums? I think, man, just another rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about guys that I know that
Speaker 1: have spent that many days in a mountain during your
Speaker 1: maybe Remy Warrens another guy who would say like a
Speaker 1: two just but he's a guide and so he's not
Speaker 1: it's not probably not in the same way that you're
Speaker 1: doing it, but just just it's amazing and the knowledge.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're sharing all that knowledge, man, because that's
Speaker 1: that's important stuff. Because you're lucky. I'm sure you know, lucky.
Speaker 1: You get to do what you do. You earn earn
Speaker 1: your place at Kafaro, and it's it's just badass to
Speaker 1: hear that. Is there any suggestions you've give the people
Speaker 1: for packs of the guys who are just looking to
Speaker 1: get into it and go out west, is there one
Speaker 1: thing they ought to look for when they're selecting a pack.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's the same as boots. You
Speaker 1: need to make sure one they fit. Um, you can't
Speaker 1: walk in I mean I hate say you can't walk
Speaker 1: into a Capella's or a bass Pro or source of
Speaker 1: warehouse or whatever. Um and get a pack that's really
Speaker 1: fitted properly, which is hugely important for backpack hunting. So
Speaker 1: you want to make sure and talk to somebody that
Speaker 1: actually knows what they're doing. UM, make sure you get
Speaker 1: the packs fitted correctly. Make sure you get the proper size.
Speaker 1: You know and understand how the pack works. You understand
Speaker 1: what a load lifter is. Um understand how the compressions
Speaker 1: straps work, how it connects, how to adjust it, all
Speaker 1: those different things. And it's no different if you buy
Speaker 1: a camera and you keep it on Ottawa all the time.
Speaker 1: It'll work, but you're not going to get the most
Speaker 1: out of it you can. So you want to make
Speaker 1: sure you know it's fitted correctly, that you get the
Speaker 1: most out of it, because it leaves you more comfortable, happier,
Speaker 1: more longevity, and able to bounce right back when you're
Speaker 1: done with your hunt rather than being bloody, beat up
Speaker 1: and in pain. And that's the same way with boots.
Speaker 1: I mean you brought boots up in the same way.
Speaker 1: I mean you get a boot that doesn't fit, it
Speaker 1: will make your life help. So you want to make
Speaker 1: sure the same way with a pack. What's what's your
Speaker 1: boot of choice right now? Oh man? I was a
Speaker 1: scarper guy forever and then I just um han Fog
Speaker 1: sent me a set of mockra Um and you want
Speaker 1: to talk about I think I might make love to that,
Speaker 1: but I want to put it on. Immediately. I looked
Speaker 1: at my fiance it was like, this boot is amazing.
Speaker 1: The next day we did Cardio with sixty five pounds
Speaker 1: and not far. But it's flew over a mile straight up,
Speaker 1: and it's a thousand foot game. But you know I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get heel rubbed with that. I'm gonna have arch problems.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's where you're really gonna see it. Boot
Speaker 1: not broken it at all, flew up the mountain the
Speaker 1: almost record time. And uh, I just I can't say
Speaker 1: enough about that specific boot. But I like a stiffer boot.
Speaker 1: So if you're wann't a really flexible one, that's not
Speaker 1: the boot for you. Spell the name of it. I've
Speaker 1: never heard that before. Um han vob So it's h
Speaker 1: A n w A g um makaro, which is m
Speaker 1: A k A r A. I see you, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm looking. I gotta look him up now. This is
Speaker 1: a kind of boot guy that I am too to
Speaker 1: see it. You're kind of in the built in the
Speaker 1: same is the Scarpolsportiva Salewa, same region. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, there's a big you know, as
Speaker 1: far as boots go. Um, I don't know. I used
Speaker 1: to when I didn't know what I was doing, going
Speaker 1: and buy a quote unquote hunting boot, which is, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, one of the worst things you can do. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, you you really want to go to a
Speaker 1: mountaineering store and you probably want to buy a backpacking boot.
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing wrong with the camera boot that goes
Speaker 1: up to your knee, but for backpacking' probably not gonna
Speaker 1: be super happy. So you go to an ex boot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I mean when we went. I went to
Speaker 1: Nepal last year and that's the first time I discovered
Speaker 1: Lost Portiva. I mean, you know, but a new about
Speaker 1: scarpor I had seen a bunch of guys, seen a
Speaker 1: couple of guys in Kodyak wearing scarpas and was interested.
Speaker 1: I had worn uh mindels for a while and had
Speaker 1: just got some crispies. It was just kind of feeling
Speaker 1: through those. But then you start to get into, like
Speaker 1: you said, you break into the that mountaineering world and
Speaker 1: you start to learn about loss Fartiva and learn about
Speaker 1: some of those brands. So I got a pair of
Speaker 1: Aspartiva approach boots for for Nepal and that kind of
Speaker 1: switched on the next level of thinking when it comes
Speaker 1: to what's on your foot, I mean a lot of this.
Speaker 1: That's when when I need advice for backpacking. Very few
Speaker 1: people do I go to, you know, I go to
Speaker 1: those guys that climb everything, um, big wall climbers like um.
Speaker 1: I mean, those guys know they're ship right. So when
Speaker 1: I need like a state of the art gear assessment
Speaker 1: that's above and beyond what I have, I need a
Speaker 1: guy that's been closer to desk than I have. Right,
Speaker 1: it's pushing the limits far beyond where I am. And
Speaker 1: guys that climb are a good a good a good
Speaker 1: bounce back, and so I usually go down. I have
Speaker 1: a friends at the local mountaineering store, and you know,
Speaker 1: I bounced it off of them. I asked them questions
Speaker 1: and they and I'm going to get position. I get
Speaker 1: gear a year before anyone else even sees it on
Speaker 1: the market, like whether it be clothing from backpacking companies
Speaker 1: or hunting companies. You know, I get gears so far
Speaker 1: ahead in the testing phases, which is great, um play
Speaker 1: or be boots or anything else. And so I get
Speaker 1: I gets really in depth looks at gear before anyone else's.
Speaker 1: It's a great position to be into them gear. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a great advice for people that
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, packs and boots are the
Speaker 1: two things that I've there. If you're not a pack company,
Speaker 1: don't make packs. If you're not a boot company, don't
Speaker 1: make boots. I've said that for for as long as
Speaker 1: that as long as I've kind of been trying to
Speaker 1: get serious about this whole thing, and I believe that
Speaker 1: whole hardly. And that's that's a great advice for people,
Speaker 1: like if you're out there and there's some experts in
Speaker 1: your town, if you live in a mountain town and
Speaker 1: there's a mountaineering store somewhere, or even for me, I
Speaker 1: think if I'm getting, you know, last minute supplies for
Speaker 1: a backpack trip, I go to r a I before
Speaker 1: I go to Cabela's every freaking day. Um, just just
Speaker 1: for the general backpack and stuff that they have, whether
Speaker 1: it's civil lightweight silverware, or you know, anything that goes
Speaker 1: with being in the in the back country. I think
Speaker 1: there's just better quality stuff in that in that outdoor
Speaker 1: reck space when it comes to back country gear, right, No, No,
Speaker 1: I I agree, Um, I mean the clothing is the
Speaker 1: same way. I mean, anyone that says any hunting clothing
Speaker 1: right now wasn't copied off of backpacking company's a liar,
Speaker 1: Like it's just straight up how it is. Um and
Speaker 1: of course my opinion, but the Patagonia are one fleece hoodie.
Speaker 1: I can name seven hoodies on the market and camera
Speaker 1: right now. They look a whole lot like the Patagonia
Speaker 1: are one police Is that wrong? Is that bad? No?
Speaker 1: And it's not bad, but a lot. I mean, all
Speaker 1: the clothing we're wearing, this covered in camo was copied
Speaker 1: off of a backpacking company, whether it be mamut Ore, Carrick, Um,
Speaker 1: you know whoever, Patagonia, it was copied off one of
Speaker 1: those based backpacking companies. For the most part, there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of again, in my opinion, there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of new way of thinking. When it comes in
Speaker 1: the hunting world, it's usually copied off of a backpacking company. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a boost the same way. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't if I was going on a ten day backhuntry
Speaker 1: trip in the Missouri Breaks. There's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of stuff serious gear at Cabela's that I would want
Speaker 1: to buy. And I've tried, and I've went there and
Speaker 1: it's chopped around. I'm thinking, Yeah, if I'm sitting in
Speaker 1: a tree stand Jason Dear, There's a lot here that
Speaker 1: I could could use. But when you're really talking about
Speaker 1: getting back there and needing your stuff to work, it's
Speaker 1: it's tough, and almost in the hunt community almost be
Speaker 1: embarrassed to say you shop at are I all the time,
Speaker 1: but I do. Yeah, oh yeah. There was just a
Speaker 1: huge post about r e I because you have very
Speaker 1: anti guns dating in a bunch of other stuff, and
Speaker 1: I try not to get I definitely talked to I'm
Speaker 1: an anti Jet Boiled guy because I've not had great
Speaker 1: vibes back from the higher ups I've talked to at
Speaker 1: Jet Boil about being pro hunting, and so for example
Speaker 1: with that, I do do some background checks. I try
Speaker 1: to support hunting friendly companies. Primus is a prime example.
Speaker 1: I try to support Primus in MSR as much as
Speaker 1: I possibly can. The same is Scarpa and Hanvog because
Speaker 1: they have guiding outfitter programs for discounts. Primus is not
Speaker 1: afraid to support hunting. Convog is the same way UM
Speaker 1: and so those companies I try to support even though
Speaker 1: they're not a hunting company, they are pro hunting and
Speaker 1: they're not afraid of that and that's important to me
Speaker 1: as well. Um, you know, and so I tried it.
Speaker 1: I try to I try not to review a lot
Speaker 1: of gear that's shipping on hunting, that's for sure. I
Speaker 1: try to focus on you know, it's a backpacking company,
Speaker 1: that it's one that is pro hunting or doesn't crap
Speaker 1: on hunting. Yeah, and I think Black Diamond has been
Speaker 1: I used to work with somebody that was working at
Speaker 1: Black Diamond and he described them as firmly anti hunting.
Speaker 1: And I have several Black Diamond headlamps that I wear,
Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot of other hunters wearing Black
Speaker 1: Diamond headlamps or trekking poles or whatever. And Cabella sells
Speaker 1: Black Diamond gear at some La Lana. I haven't looked
Speaker 1: into it to see if really how deeply anti hunting
Speaker 1: they are, but I'm I'm sure just from is evidence
Speaker 1: that there's there's some seeds there. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: just knowing that stuff as much as a consumer couldn't
Speaker 1: know it, you're gonna know everything, but just understanding the
Speaker 1: dynamics there is important. And I'm not embarrassed were a
Speaker 1: Black Diamond headlamp, But next time I go to buy one,
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be a black diamond, that's
Speaker 1: for sure. Ye. No, no, I'm in the same same boat.
Speaker 1: And again I've had guys say, hey, you know you
Speaker 1: wear prawn as I own pants, and we were told
Speaker 1: they were anti hunting, and I'm like, well, they have
Speaker 1: doing the best here, like don't set gold right of trying.
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta trying to have to let people
Speaker 1: know what a good discount is on pants too, and
Speaker 1: they're cheap, so take it easy on me. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely agree and trying to do the
Speaker 1: same things. And the jet Boil thing, that's funny. People
Speaker 1: are sending emails saying, hey, this is their response, and
Speaker 1: we asked them, like, well they like hunters money, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that's their response. But I mean I talked to
Speaker 1: him with the O. R Show, and believe me, they
Speaker 1: were not grow hunting at the O R Show. And
Speaker 1: these weren't sales reps. These were very high ups in
Speaker 1: the Jet Boiler and so I'm like, hey, ms are
Speaker 1: in primus, We'll tell you and without the doubt they
Speaker 1: are not against hunting, and so I try to spread
Speaker 1: that word, like I said as well, yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: and we've been talking about that. It's a good Another
Speaker 1: good talk to hit on is UM, I don't know
Speaker 1: how much you spent, you know, obviously it sounds like
Speaker 1: you spent a lot of time around that outdoor retailer crowd.
Speaker 1: And I just think I think it's important that we
Speaker 1: reach out to that crowd and connect with them, whether
Speaker 1: it's on public lands or gear or whatever that whatever
Speaker 1: the tie that binds is, I think going forward for hunters,
Speaker 1: that's going to be a huge one. Um, what have
Speaker 1: you in your work in that world? What have you seen?
Speaker 1: I mean, in my work, I'll tell you I've seen
Speaker 1: nothing but really acceptance. A few I got in a
Speaker 1: few scenarios where there's some ignorance that I had this
Speaker 1: straight now, But once I got it straightened, it was
Speaker 1: all good. Um. But in my work and in that industry,
Speaker 1: it seems like people are curious about hunting. They don't
Speaker 1: really understand it, but they're not completely against it if
Speaker 1: it's put in the right light. Don't I agree a percent?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's those long lines where we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I think that you know when you when you when
Speaker 1: you're at the doorway. UM, to get somebody to let
Speaker 1: you in their house. You know, you don't want to
Speaker 1: show up but the door with a beer and a
Speaker 1: gun in your hand. You show up the flowers and
Speaker 1: some cupcakes, right you You want to get in the doorway.
Speaker 1: And so when there's that conversation, um, and I have
Speaker 1: to deal with it, I'm sure as much as you do, well,
Speaker 1: you're not as much for quite a bit, whether it
Speaker 1: be you know, people selling us material or buckles or
Speaker 1: sewers or whatever. Um, you know, they find out where
Speaker 1: a honey company. I want to intrigue them and I
Speaker 1: want them to see what we're doing, be in goal.
Speaker 1: And so when I call him on a SAT phone
Speaker 1: because I'm about to place a dollar on material material
Speaker 1: order on the side pop of the mountains, I want
Speaker 1: them to fill intrigue. Did holy cow, this guy called
Speaker 1: me on a SAT phone. And so when I get
Speaker 1: back and send them photos, they're a cooling ship. We
Speaker 1: were talking to him right there and they understand and
Speaker 1: not just feed them the two percent kill shot picture.
Speaker 1: At the end of it, I want them to know
Speaker 1: the whole thing of what we're doing, what we're about,
Speaker 1: what we stand for. And so it's it's been very
Speaker 1: well received with who I've dealt with, um, you know
Speaker 1: on my innes things. That's good. Yeah, me too. And
Speaker 1: YETI I mean, like I said, we've saying before. I mean,
Speaker 1: we deal with a lot of top low athletes in
Speaker 1: that world and a lot of companies. I had a
Speaker 1: conversation with some folks at Patagonia where they weren't really
Speaker 1: aware of Pittman Robertson. They weren't aware of how hunters
Speaker 1: get back to conservation. I mean, they were aware that
Speaker 1: we say that that that was one of our talking
Speaker 1: points of why hunting is is a positive thing, but
Speaker 1: they kind of rolled their eyes at the oxymoronic nature
Speaker 1: of like killing is good for the ones that are
Speaker 1: all left after we've shot the ones we want. Um.
Speaker 1: But once we you know, once I gave some depth
Speaker 1: and breath in the conversation, they were all cool with it,
Speaker 1: and they were and not apologetic, but understanding of where
Speaker 1: they where the misconceptions were in the beginning. So I
Speaker 1: just think, and I think that's a huge I mean,
Speaker 1: what's an eighty seven billion dollar communities You're talking about
Speaker 1: everybody that goes outside that doesn't have a fishing pole
Speaker 1: or a gun in their hands or a bow in
Speaker 1: their hands. So they're they're a huge crowd that I
Speaker 1: think is maybe seen as generally anti hunting, and then
Speaker 1: they're not. I don't think they are as a croup. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean I and I get I wish what you
Speaker 1: do is far more when you're talking about with outdoor personalities,
Speaker 1: is a much higher gets in what I'm dealing with, Um,
Speaker 1: you know what I we we we we customate packs
Speaker 1: for women. Mountain climb was far more than men because
Speaker 1: they can't get them backpacking pack to victim. So I
Speaker 1: can only imagine what you're dealing with on that side
Speaker 1: of things as far as the different personalities. And I've
Speaker 1: only watched Conrad at Jimmy on TV right about Jimmy
Speaker 1: wants at the local mountaineering store. But I mean, you
Speaker 1: want to talk about I think Jimmy has two friends
Speaker 1: and one point two million followers. Yeah, obviously a lot
Speaker 1: of people follow him, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure now, and I've you know, I know that
Speaker 1: we were able to introduce guy like Mark c Cat
Speaker 1: to Conrad Anchor when they both were here in Austin
Speaker 1: for one of our ambassadors Summits and next thing, I know, Uh,
Speaker 1: Conrad's taken seecat climate um and it's cool man. And
Speaker 1: Conrad is the first person to you know, in my
Speaker 1: brief encounters with him and just you know very he's
Speaker 1: a very professional, quiet guy. But I think he'd probably
Speaker 1: the first person to question hunting but also the first
Speaker 1: person to accept it if he did it the right way. So,
Speaker 1: I mean that's in in Conrad Anchor is a freaking
Speaker 1: legend um and a leader in that space and pretty
Speaker 1: outspoken when it comes to that stuff. So I would
Speaker 1: just use him as a good example of somebody who's
Speaker 1: open to it. We just presented the right way and
Speaker 1: and we'll get it done. Next thing, we know, we'll
Speaker 1: have a bunch of allies on on that side of things.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty influential group of folks that were Patty going,
Speaker 1: you're where north Face or or where our tereks or
Speaker 1: whatever that might be. Yeah, no, no, I agree for
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean we'd we have a couple of
Speaker 1: guys that are big wall climbers that hunt with us.
Speaker 1: Fred Baum is one of them, and he never hunted
Speaker 1: a day in his life and big wall climber, and
Speaker 1: I mean he's a freaking nature right as far as
Speaker 1: you know, as far as physically, and he just woke
Speaker 1: up one day and decided he wanted to bow hunt.
Speaker 1: You know, the guy was hard to kill the two
Speaker 1: d and three inch mule deer, his first mule deer,
Speaker 1: eleven miles in um. Obviously he had the skill set
Speaker 1: to get back there and survive, and then you know,
Speaker 1: he could shoot bow enough to hit it. But he's
Speaker 1: got a pretty good grasp and in a lot of
Speaker 1: different industries. But it was amazing to talk to people
Speaker 1: like that and what got him going and kind of
Speaker 1: like Grogan the same way, like what sparked the intr
Speaker 1: And I think that could have changed dramatically if it
Speaker 1: was the entry into it was a piss pour one.
Speaker 1: But instead it was a good one. They heard what
Speaker 1: they wanted to hear, They got the spark interested in,
Speaker 1: got them interested in the one thing might do another.
Speaker 1: And that's a fine example of you know, once you're
Speaker 1: at the doorway and make sure you're you're inviting someone
Speaker 1: in and not scaring the ship at him. Yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the best way to describe the
Speaker 1: whole conversation. Man. And it's a good thing. I had
Speaker 1: something I was driving back here before we did the podcast,
Speaker 1: and one thing I wrote down that I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you was what kind of crazy? There are different things?
Speaker 1: I imagine. This is what I imagined just from knowing
Speaker 1: from from what I've seen, is what kind of crazy
Speaker 1: inventions are crazy? Stuff is in your pack that other
Speaker 1: people aren't doing? Are things that over the years you
Speaker 1: developed that that was something that's always in your pack.
Speaker 1: That's uh that you feel like unique or something that
Speaker 1: other other guys aren't pulling off? Um, oh you've been
Speaker 1: like for packing list, Yeah, packing lists, some gear piece
Speaker 1: I know. I'm sure you've got some some idiosyncrasies, like
Speaker 1: in your gear list of things you do that are
Speaker 1: a little different. I mean, as far as game changers go,
Speaker 1: it's probably surprising. One of those things is Luco tape. Um,
Speaker 1: most people haven't heard of it. I got turned on
Speaker 1: into a mountain climber years ago. When you have foot problems,
Speaker 1: Luco cape will stay stuck to your foot for seven
Speaker 1: days in wet conditions. And if you ever have blisters
Speaker 1: or problems, I mean, you put a band aid on
Speaker 1: and wrap Luco tape over the top. You have problems
Speaker 1: and no more. Um so, I mean one of the
Speaker 1: things because I've had such problems with hell rubbed it
Speaker 1: is probably anti climactic as this is um Luco tape
Speaker 1: literally has been a game changer, you know for me,
Speaker 1: um it's been nine day difference, you know, as far
Speaker 1: as maybe other things that that, uh, I guess we're
Speaker 1: you know, game changers. Not to pimp out too far
Speaker 1: too much, but uh we have a wood stove that
Speaker 1: waste two pounds twelve ounces. Yeah, you know, obviously you
Speaker 1: have to have wood so to do it so above
Speaker 1: treeline it's not working. But having the ability to be
Speaker 1: able to have a heated sheltering, UM, that's another game changer.
Speaker 1: I've got a a kin foot long well it's not
Speaker 1: quite ten but tin foot long shelter. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's six ft wide that I can get a hundred
Speaker 1: degrees inside if I want to to dry out my gear.
Speaker 1: You know, that's been another huge benefit for me for
Speaker 1: longevity in the field. That's huge. We used I've used
Speaker 1: as before. I used one with Kulkraner and Kodiak a
Speaker 1: couple of Decembers ago when it was wins. What do
Speaker 1: we have I don't know. It was like eighty mile
Speaker 1: in our winds. I mean we were we were tucked
Speaker 1: up under this little ridge that we were blocked. We
Speaker 1: had eighty million our winds and we had negative ten
Speaker 1: degree temperatures hunting blacktailed deer. And and I think he said,
Speaker 1: you gave him that the stow. We had our ten
Speaker 1: and if we didn't have that thing, we'd have been screwed,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Yeah. Actually, cool Cole called me once
Speaker 1: because he said it wasn't burning correctly and whatever way
Speaker 1: he's burning, clouded the spark Er rester. Hell, it could
Speaker 1: have been with you. He was calling me and who
Speaker 1: were on the phone, and he's like, it's smoking, and
Speaker 1: my dude, if you checked the spark Errester. And then
Speaker 1: immediately he was like, all right, we're good. I gotta
Speaker 1: go alright, cool man, But I mean that's a huge
Speaker 1: you know, if you you witnessed it yourself, that's a
Speaker 1: huge Yeah. Um, you know after that, I mean again,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to pimp out there an interchangeable knife. UM.
Speaker 1: I used one called the Tito. Get their tito, everyone
Speaker 1: pronounce it. Um. I don't understand guys have like the
Speaker 1: the knife handed down from their grandfather's grandfather down to him.
Speaker 1: But you know, having the ability to have an interchangeable
Speaker 1: blade knife from you're breaking down multiple animal another game changer,
Speaker 1: um you know for me. Um. Another one to communication
Speaker 1: that DOLORMI will mount garment in reach. Um that that's
Speaker 1: a lifesaver, especially when you're trying to run a business
Speaker 1: from the side of the mountain. I also carry I
Speaker 1: also have a uh in a radium go which is
Speaker 1: a satellite hot spot basically, um, you know, And then
Speaker 1: I can navigate from a watch. Now I do mostly
Speaker 1: manual lad now, um you know, so I really just
Speaker 1: need attended to good coordinate UTM grid to plot it
Speaker 1: out on the map. I don't have to carry a GPS.
Speaker 1: Well now I have a sun too, um traverse south.
Speaker 1: I used to run a four or one. But the
Speaker 1: point being is I can navigate so fast with such
Speaker 1: a small amount of weight. Has been another huge thing
Speaker 1: for me as well. Is there I'm just googling everything
Speaker 1: bookmark like what you're saying. We'll put a list out
Speaker 1: of this stuff, um in the blog post for this.
Speaker 1: But so the Tito knives, is there any reason you
Speaker 1: going with those? I mean, you're rolling with sixty A
Speaker 1: blades just like the regular avalon. Are you going number
Speaker 1: twenty two s or what? I gotta keep it somewhat secret.
Speaker 1: But he's got a new blade that's more unbreakable. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so I usually carry sixty and twenty kes. I don't
Speaker 1: carry as many of the the caping blades that I
Speaker 1: do the others. But the I ran Piranha forever um,
Speaker 1: but the knife would get gunked up and it was
Speaker 1: a little bulkier. Well, the Tito I can actually put
Speaker 1: in my chest. I run a Laska Guy Creation chest harness.
Speaker 1: There's a pocket in the back of it. I just
Speaker 1: leave the blade off and I have those flat blades
Speaker 1: in their packages, and I can run that knife flat
Speaker 1: in that chest. It's as flat as a blade of
Speaker 1: a butter knife. Um. And then you know when I
Speaker 1: when I take something or you know, when something is
Speaker 1: on the ground, I just popped that blade on and
Speaker 1: so it weighs less. There's no gunk there, it's easy
Speaker 1: to clean. And again it's low profile. So that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons left. That is the main reason that
Speaker 1: that title has been like a huge benefit in comparison
Speaker 1: to a foldable. Um, I this is just a flat piece,
Speaker 1: so it's super handy. Yeah, that's I'm saying. I'm just
Speaker 1: looking at that. Now I'm putting some stuff in a cart.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that knife flux badass. Um. But that
Speaker 1: al Aska guy creations. What's different about that? I mean
Speaker 1: is that I mean it's changing a little bit of
Speaker 1: from a he started it all for one, I mean
Speaker 1: everyone's pretty much copied him. Um. But the reason I
Speaker 1: like it. A lot of people don't like the They
Speaker 1: make a little profile one, but I wear a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger one. So try Ox Saint tablets. I carry
Speaker 1: an inside this Triox Saint tablets. I mean you can
Speaker 1: fart in it'll light that is huge. It'll burn in water.
Speaker 1: And so for a firestarter survival, I carry a Trax
Speaker 1: Saint tablet in that chest rig. I carry a petsel
Speaker 1: E light, which is this tiny headlamp that wass a
Speaker 1: half an hour. I don't know that I've ever changed
Speaker 1: the battery on one. I mean, you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: spotlighting from two out, but it'll keep you alive. I
Speaker 1: keep that in there. That the Tito knife or Title knife,
Speaker 1: some extra blades. I actually have a garment four oh one,
Speaker 1: um GPS watch that I carried in that as well,
Speaker 1: your tags basically in a flint and steel or a lighter.
Speaker 1: So I can survive for quite some time with what's
Speaker 1: in that chest rig And I also like the fact
Speaker 1: that it covers the lens caps of my optics. But
Speaker 1: I mean just the fact of what I have in there.
Speaker 1: If I get separated my from my pack, one I
Speaker 1: have a GPS unit either on my wrist or in
Speaker 1: my chest harness that's got my GPS mark. Then I
Speaker 1: don't know how many times I've dropped my pack when
Speaker 1: I stock the fox come in and one around like
Speaker 1: an idiot. I don't have that problem anymore. Um. And
Speaker 1: then obviously being able to break the animal down with
Speaker 1: what's on your chest is a big one. And being
Speaker 1: able to start a fire. Um. So you have some
Speaker 1: key essential things in that and that's that chester does
Speaker 1: not leave my side at any time. In the optics
Speaker 1: are the least important part of it. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: first I've heard that that. I love that. I love
Speaker 1: that analogy. If you've got to have what's on your
Speaker 1: chest or what's in your pockets, even then it is
Speaker 1: more important to you. What what model I'm doing some shoppings.
Speaker 1: Everybody can just just bear with me. What model for
Speaker 1: that Alaska Gay Creations? Do you know it's called the grizzly. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see it here. Cool I have. I have a
Speaker 1: CoDIAK and a grizzly. Actually that I have a CoDIAK cub,
Speaker 1: which is for you know, basically spotting stock outside the truck,
Speaker 1: but the grizzly in the in the CoDIAK or that's
Speaker 1: who I run the know. Are you running? Have you
Speaker 1: ever run high power of box? Or you run always
Speaker 1: running a spot or out on the mountain. Yeah, I so, man,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm pretty optics up. I always run tins on
Speaker 1: a tripod um, but a lot of times i'm a
Speaker 1: hubblefing in. So I packed ninety five around a lot
Speaker 1: um and so, depending upon what we're doing, I run
Speaker 1: tins in the ninety five. I've run that ninety four forever.
Speaker 1: I've run a lot of other spotters, but I mean
Speaker 1: that ninety five with me a lot and um sometimes
Speaker 1: I'll run fifteen like um, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: times scouting will actually pack in the nifteen and ten.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, like if the zombies come
Speaker 1: and I gotta grab three to pick them ountain pop
Speaker 1: their heads off, I'm grabbing my tins in the nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's kind of I'm the same way, almost almost
Speaker 1: exactly the same. But I've hunted with Ronella and Incous
Speaker 1: of your country and he was running those outdoorsmen um
Speaker 1: tripods and he was popping its fifteens on there and
Speaker 1: kicking my ass on spotting. So in that Outdoorsman tripods, like,
Speaker 1: I actually just picked up a really right stuff, which
Speaker 1: is a ridiculously Chris tripod, but it was for the
Speaker 1: system for photography and glassing. But yeah, I mean, you
Speaker 1: get fifteens on a tripod, you're gonna do some damage. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can be outglassed with fifteens, just
Speaker 1: for the simple factor power the field of view. Um,
Speaker 1: you know there's a limit to them. You also need
Speaker 1: to spotter. But you know, if you're not a trophy hunter. Um,
Speaker 1: you know when I say trophy, if you're not counting
Speaker 1: the inches right, like you're like, oh, that's a good deal,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go shoot it. Probably not needed. You can
Speaker 1: see plenty with tens or fifteen. Yeah, that makes total sense.
Speaker 1: We'll have to get you to give us as much
Speaker 1: of the gearless as you'll divulge, because that's stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I really just got into back country. Really
Speaker 1: what I can consider, you know, serious back country stuff
Speaker 1: here in the last two or three years. But that's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts is going through my system
Speaker 1: and tweaking at every single hunt and getting it better
Speaker 1: and understanding how to get lighter and how to get
Speaker 1: even You just talking about the gear that's on your chest.
Speaker 1: Hopefully people listen to this, think about that, think about
Speaker 1: how that could change the game for you where you
Speaker 1: where a certain gear lives on your body when you're
Speaker 1: out there for weeks on end. I mean give you
Speaker 1: an example, um, for people listening to an example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I generally never dropped my pack anyway until the final approach.
Speaker 1: But you dropped your pack for the primal approach. You
Speaker 1: take the shot, adrenaline takes over. You make a less
Speaker 1: than perfect shot. A lot of times you're gonna chase
Speaker 1: after that animal. Adrenaline is flowing. You dropped down a cliff. Okay,
Speaker 1: you dropped down that cliff, and now you can't get
Speaker 1: back up it. You've got an animal down there. You've
Speaker 1: got yourself down there and you've got no pack, and
Speaker 1: you've got a long ways to hook up and around
Speaker 1: just to get out of there. Okay, not a problem, right,
Speaker 1: Well a storm blows in. Now you've got no clothing,
Speaker 1: You've got an animal on the ground. You've got to
Speaker 1: figure out what's what, who's too and you need to
Speaker 1: figure it out quick because it's going to take you
Speaker 1: a long time. And you've got no rain gear and
Speaker 1: so you can break the animal down. Now you can
Speaker 1: eat the animal. Hell boodycause you've got a kniphone, you've
Speaker 1: got a way to build a fire, and you've got
Speaker 1: a GPS to get you back home. Quicker. That happens
Speaker 1: every year, two hundreds of people at a NACT scenario,
Speaker 1: and most people take off and they've got lint in
Speaker 1: their pocket and that is it. Well, everything is on
Speaker 1: my chest that I need. And another thing we've done
Speaker 1: is Cafar has built a lot of lids that work
Speaker 1: as final approach packs. So when you do drop your
Speaker 1: your pack, we have one called the Native that I
Speaker 1: designed that goes along with that chest rig to throw
Speaker 1: my puffy jacket in my rein gear on a final
Speaker 1: far stock so I even have that next level of
Speaker 1: survival in case I get pinned down for a long time,
Speaker 1: and especially with the recurve where you have to get
Speaker 1: really close getting pinned down for five, six, seven hours,
Speaker 1: is it very possible? And so in that I've got
Speaker 1: my t shirt, my smile, and my sandwich and then
Speaker 1: I've got my chest rig that's got everything else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's huge. It's just piece like the systematic nature of
Speaker 1: how you pack your stuff, and I've I've kind of
Speaker 1: gotten to that. I've got so many stuff sacks with
Speaker 1: all kinds of different stuff, and I started color coding
Speaker 1: things and marking things with tape and getting really really
Speaker 1: ridiculously intricate. But that's part of it, man. Part of
Speaker 1: living out of a backpack, which you've done a million
Speaker 1: times more than I have. Part of living is being
Speaker 1: organized because that can be the you know, the difference
Speaker 1: between success or not success. And that's a great example
Speaker 1: that you just gave. You know, having your ship together
Speaker 1: can be warm and and kind of dialed in or
Speaker 1: shivering and really knocked out into what that animals do
Speaker 1: and just trying to stay alive. Yeah. Yeah, And if
Speaker 1: you watch like Frank and I go at it when
Speaker 1: we head in. It's it's it's really it's an art
Speaker 1: of how this the camp gets set up, where it
Speaker 1: gets set up, why, who's doing what and when in
Speaker 1: a rhythm um, unlike you'll see really with a lot
Speaker 1: of other you know, people going hunting. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a system we have in that system is very precise
Speaker 1: and it and it works very well. And you know,
Speaker 1: the more you do it, the better the system gets.
Speaker 1: And we're lucky enough we get to do we can
Speaker 1: do it pretty good. Yeah. Well, unfortunately for me now
Speaker 1: I'm going down this rabbit hole with all of I'm
Speaker 1: writing down everything you mentioned. Everybody listener will post it up,
Speaker 1: But for me tonight it's alrighty late in the evening.
Speaker 1: I'll probably spend the next hour going going down the
Speaker 1: gear rabbit hole. But I love it, man, I love it.
Speaker 1: And it's just it's another thing about hunting that you
Speaker 1: can freaking love. That's just another thing to get wrapped
Speaker 1: up in of all the ridiculous things that we get
Speaker 1: wrapped up, wrapped up in. So I appreciate the insight
Speaker 1: on that and um, the inside and everything else. Man,
Speaker 1: this has been This may be the longest hunting collective
Speaker 1: podcast ever for damn good reason. It's a scary conversation. Yeah, well, no,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you have me on. And yet we'll have
Speaker 1: to do another one and just talk gear because I
Speaker 1: can talk to that. I know. How long do you do?
Speaker 1: How long are the photocasts? Do you guys ever do
Speaker 1: like three or four hour ones like Rogan does? No, No,
Speaker 1: not that, not really. Um, you know, but I haven't
Speaker 1: had went on there um on that long where I
Speaker 1: knew I couldn't get him back, and so a lot
Speaker 1: of times I'm like, all right, well, we'll get you
Speaker 1: back next week. We had a guy named Harold Farrenbrook.
Speaker 1: He's killed more ships than smallpox with a re curve
Speaker 1: and uh, it's relatively unknown the some of them us
Speaker 1: just got a cell phone for the first time. In fact,
Speaker 1: we hated each other when we first met because I
Speaker 1: told him I get him a pack and he's calling
Speaker 1: me and I'm texting him and he sends me to
Speaker 1: skated email. You're blowing me off, And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I've texted you like twenty times and he's like, I
Speaker 1: don't own a cell phone, dude. It's two thousand seven
Speaker 1: teams to fuck you mean you own a cell phone? Well,
Speaker 1: it's just how he lives. He's unworldly, he's unbelievable. He's
Speaker 1: just amazing. Man, we get on right now, well having him,
Speaker 1: I think we've had him on three times when we're
Speaker 1: still not board yet, So we could have easily pulled
Speaker 1: a four or five hour podcast. But that's the great
Speaker 1: thing about this this podcast thing. You can do it forever, man,
Speaker 1: And it's not to me, you know this. I think
Speaker 1: this will be episode number ten or something like that.
Speaker 1: And to me, it's just one long conversation just keeps going.
Speaker 1: A lot of the same stuff comes up. So people
Speaker 1: I listen to a lot. I'm sure you're the same way.
Speaker 1: But this is one long, kick ass conversation. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know you can look back on this, and
Speaker 1: I can look back on mine years from now, and
Speaker 1: kind of we'll probably be smarter, maybe we'll be dumber,
Speaker 1: who knows, but we'll probably be smarter and better hunters
Speaker 1: and better people and look back on some of the
Speaker 1: things we said and did and laugh. But man, it's
Speaker 1: cool to have it all recorded. Yeah, No, for for sure, definitely.
Speaker 1: You know I talked about writing the book, right, like
Speaker 1: your book, the book of your life and the different chapters.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a book inside of a book because
Speaker 1: if you're writing your your different chapters, now you have
Speaker 1: a podcast in one of them. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: cool because, yeah, the documentation of everything that goes on,
Speaker 1: everything you say, I look back at ones that Brian
Speaker 1: and I did and even how things have changed, even
Speaker 1: gear like you know, things change in life, things you
Speaker 1: learn different things that it's always mating. You look back
Speaker 1: in a podcast is definitely a great way to do that. Yeah, man, Well,
Speaker 1: I definitely uh in big fan of years and appreciate
Speaker 1: everything you do. And we've got to have at least
Speaker 1: if not a beer or six. Uh, I spend some
Speaker 1: time on the mountains. Sounds like I'd learned a ton
Speaker 1: and and either way, I appreciate everything that you mean
Speaker 1: to this world. And I gotta get a far pack
Speaker 1: and run around the mountin with you. Yeah, no, that
Speaker 1: sounds like a plane man. Yeah, we'll have to plan
Speaker 1: a hunt together sometimes, something extreme where we're close to death.
Speaker 1: Those are always a good one, definitely. I Once you
Speaker 1: do that, you just want to take it further every
Speaker 1: time I've I was close to death last year a
Speaker 1: couple of times, and uh, this year, I haven't yet been,
Speaker 1: so I'm not quite as happy with with with life.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you, man, I'm there. I've got an
Speaker 1: opening on a goat and hunt this year, so maybe
Speaker 1: you can join on that one. That should be interesting.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of new gear I'm about to
Speaker 1: buy for that hunt. So do all right, dude, appreciate everything? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on, man, and definitely the fan
Speaker 1: of yours as well, and I definitely wanted to link
Speaker 1: up cool talk soon. Right. That's it. That's all number
Speaker 1: ten in the books. We made it to double digits.
Speaker 1: We've got about twelve hours a little bit more than
Speaker 1: twelve hours of hunting conversation in the books, with some
Speaker 1: freaking awesome guests. You know. I'm sure there's lots of
Speaker 1: milestones and podcasting. I don't know that ten is any
Speaker 1: bigger than nine or eleven, but I think every time
Speaker 1: I put one of these out, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: my stone out there. And so I want to thank
Speaker 1: Aaron Snyder for being guest number ten and for providing
Speaker 1: a lot of insight for this conversation. And he just
Speaker 1: talks about some of these issues in a different way.
Speaker 1: It strikes me that a guy like Shane Mahoney or
Speaker 1: a guy like Charles Post, who were former guests of
Speaker 1: this podcast, speaks so differently about the same issues, but
Speaker 1: they're still driving at the same point that Aaron is
Speaker 1: um than he is at at his core, a good
Speaker 1: person and a good guy who talks to really about
Speaker 1: anything and hunting. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation.
Speaker 1: I really did. I didn't know Aaron very well going
Speaker 1: into this. I feel like I want to get to
Speaker 1: know him a lot better afterwards. I was very, very
Speaker 1: impressed by everything he had to say and just who
Speaker 1: he is and what he means the hunting industry. So
Speaker 1: hopefully we can have a good strike up a great
Speaker 1: relationship here at the Honey Collective with Aaron Snyder, and
Speaker 1: hopefully all of you are starting to flow with us
Speaker 1: and enjoy these conversations as they come out every week.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear more, you can go to
Speaker 1: the Hunting Collective dot com. As always you'll find our boy,
Speaker 1: Stephen Ranella, Remy Warren, John Dudley, all Remarkus, Shane Mahoney,
Speaker 1: Charles Post Sam so hold Man. There's just a lot
Speaker 1: of them tend to be exact, and you'll find them
Speaker 1: all there at the Hunting Collective dot com. Wells some
Speaker 1: articles and videos to supplement them. Uh, you can go
Speaker 1: to Stitcher and two iTunes. Hopefully by the time this
Speaker 1: airs will have Google Play in the mix, so I
Speaker 1: have YouTube in the mix. We're talking about a lot
Speaker 1: of things, trying to get this up on all the
Speaker 1: platforms that needs to be on, So stick with us
Speaker 1: on that. If there's something that you would like to
Speaker 1: hear that you're not hearing, Holler will make it happen.
Speaker 1: Heading to Boise, Idaho tomorrow morning for the back country
Speaker 1: hundreds of Anglers rendezvous, so be there Thursday and Friday. Uh,
Speaker 1: this will probably go out Thursday morning. So hopefully you're
Speaker 1: listening to this and you're headed over to the rendezvous,
Speaker 1: I'll see you there. I'll be hanging out all over
Speaker 1: the place. Hopefully I'll see you at that creative. Then
Speaker 1: until next time, episode number eleven coming at you. Stay
Speaker 1: tuned for that. See you eight