1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it from the band 4 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: The Myth Legend, our super producer, Max Guggenheim, williams. 5 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: Oh Man, I love I love the Goog. Dude, what 6 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 2: a cool building? Is that a Frank Lloyd Wright? 7 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: It is? It is the Gougenheim Museum is one of 8 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Frank's masterpieces that has been designated as a UNESCO World 9 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Heritage Site. You're Noe Brown, I am Ben Bolan. Yeah, 10 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: and we are. We are diving into the story of 11 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: a guy named Frank Lloyd Wright. Even if you're not 12 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: an architecture buff or an architect yourself, guys, I would 13 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: say it's it's safe to assume most people have heard 14 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: this name. 15 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kind of you know, it's like if you 16 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: know two opera singers. You know, it's the same with 17 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: with with architects. There's maybe, like I am pay perhaps 18 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: Frank Lloyd Wright it's probably up there as well. But 19 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: back to the Goog. I just want to say really quickly, 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: I love how revered that site is and that it's 21 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: on the UNESCO World Heritage List, but it's also like 22 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: the weirdest of the mainstream museums in New York City. Like, 23 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: you can guarantee if you go in there, you're gonna 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: see some some real odd stuff bordering on pretentious but 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: oftentimes just straddling the line enough to be awesome. 26 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretentious and genius. There's a heck of a then 27 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: diagram there, and rank Lloyd Wright was definitely dancing in 28 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: the center of that map. Over a career spanning something 29 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: like seventy years, this guy literally designed some of the 30 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: most influential structures on the planet. And he made more 31 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: than a thousand different designs. And even though we're not architects, 32 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: that that sounds like a lot of buildings, right. 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: I thought you were for a second, say, And he 34 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: made more than a thousand dollars he did make out 35 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: the course of his career. Yeah, inflation calculator anyone, No, No, 36 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: A thousand designs or were these all executed? 37 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: That's a good question. We know that there was a 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: lot of stuff that would have been left on the 39 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: drawing board, and there were a lot of things that 40 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: maybe his disciples made under his influence. So the question becomes, 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: do we count those as part of his uvuh? 42 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: But can we just also acknowledge that back to the 43 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: drawing board never really occurred to me to think of it. 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: Literally. 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: It's one of those things that just gets thrown around 46 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: so much, kind of an architecture expression. 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I think you're right about that. Yeah, 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: and it still it just sounds better than back to 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: the drafting table, back to the future, right right. Look, 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: this guy, Frank a very controversial, divisive figure. He's inarguably 51 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: a genius, and don't worry, he would tell you that himself. 52 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: But one thing that we learned in the course of 53 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: researching this two part series is that there was a 54 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: heck of a dark side to his fame. He had 55 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: a life of personal scandal, professional controversy, and folks, even 56 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: a mass murder. 57 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: Ooh okay, all right. Oh and also a lot of 58 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: people might be on the side of history that casts 59 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: this fella as a bit of a cult leader. 60 00:03:52,400 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, let's get into it. We're gonna 61 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: meet Frank. Folks. He is born in Richland Center, Wisconsin. 62 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: It's June eighth, eighteen sixty seven, and he's got a 63 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: really interesting background. His father is a musician and a 64 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: Christian preacher and travels a lot, and his mother, Anna 65 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: Lloyd Jones, is a teacher who's super into her Welsh heritage. 66 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, and because of his father's career in the ministry, 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: the family traveled alongside him. Sounds like kind of tent 68 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: revival kind of stuff. We're talking the eighteen hundreds. I mean, 69 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: that seems like that's the kind of an itinerant preacher perhaps, 70 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: isn't that the word? 71 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: Yeah? Definitely, definitely a nomadic lifestyle, right, because what we said. 72 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: Frank is born in eighteen sixty seven, and from there 73 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: to for the next several years, his family moves through 74 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: Rhode Island in Iowa, the Massachusetts and it's not until 75 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy eight that they finally settled down permanently in Madison, Wisconsin. 76 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: Madison, Wisconsin, I think that's kind of the ultimate metro 77 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: area of Wisconsin. And it ain't that metro. Madison's were 78 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: a University of Wisconsin is too, the college is college metro. 79 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a buddy moved up there recently. 80 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: I guess I can't readily come up with another city 81 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: in Wisconsin off the top. Walking at Dome. Oh, Milwaukee's sorry, 82 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: thank you Milwaukee is definitely the most metro and uh 83 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: and is giving Wayne's World, Alice Cooper concert Vibes and 84 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: Richland Center, Wisconsin, of course, which we totally knew about 85 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: before researching this episode. No, no, no, no, not I 86 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: but I know you were being facetious. But you know, 87 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: as you can imagine, the life of a traveling preacher 88 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: was neither a particularly a money making good situation or 89 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: particularly glamorous. 90 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: As a result, the Right family often lived lean. Things 91 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: did not get better when his parents the war. And 92 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: we have to remember, like you said, Noel, this is 93 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: still the eighteen hundred, So getting divorced in general is 94 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: pretty contentious, right, pretty controversial. They get divorced. It's eighteen 95 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: eighty five and Frank is eighteen years old. He has 96 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: a situation that a lot of people find themselves in 97 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: even today, where he has to do his best to 98 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: financially support his family. Right, So he takes a job 99 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: at the University of Wisconsin, which Max just mentioned, and 100 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: while he's there, he works for the dean of the 101 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: Department of Engineering. At the same time he's studying at 102 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: the university. But according to his later biographers, he was 103 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: one of those kids who always knew what he wanted 104 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: to do, Like he always wanted to be an architect. 105 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: Indeed he did, and what he wanted to be was 106 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: an architect. So in eighteen eighty seven, he pulled up 107 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: his proverbial tent stakes and headed out to Chicago, out east, 108 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: out midwest. I don't know what you'd call that, already 109 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: a well known spots, sort of a hot spot, a 110 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: bit of a mecca of the architectural scene. And while 111 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: he's there, he works for a couple of different firms. 112 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: Eventually he lands a job with an outfit called Adler 113 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: and Sullivan. This is a huge win for him. For 114 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: six years he is working directly under the legendary Louis 115 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: Sullivan himself. So it's kind of like it's kind of 116 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: like getting a job at Apple and working directly for 117 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs or Steven Apple. Yeah right, Tim Apple. Sorry, Yeah, 118 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: he's also he's also he's still a young guy as 119 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: all this is happening. He is just twenty two years 120 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: old when he ties the knot, and this is eighteen 121 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: eighty nine. He marries someone named Catherine Lee Tobin, who 122 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: is conventionally known to her friends as Kitty, and so 123 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: you'll see her described as Kitty. Right, this is his 124 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: first wife, and he's right now, he's got a vast 125 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: horizon of possibility before him, and he says, you know, Kitty, 126 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: I love you. I love that we're getting married. I 127 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: can't wait for us to live together. But I also 128 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: love architecture. I want to build the house that we 129 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: live in. We just don't have. All we need is money. 130 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: We just need a lot of money. 131 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: And Ben, this is reminding me of I actually just 132 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: over the week and watched I can't remember the name 133 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: of the series or what platform it's on, so it's 134 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: not mega helpful. But this dude, who was clearly frank 135 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: Lloyd Wright inspired, this guy Robert O'shatz, designed himself this 136 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: incredible like upside down kind of funnel shaped like tree 137 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: home off the side of a cliff there in Oregon, 138 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: kind of more of a rural area, and it was 139 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: very frankly right inspired, and you know, really kind of 140 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: got me even before I knew we were doing this episode, 141 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: thinking about how interesting and specific the art of architecture 142 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: is and how it's like such a neat synthesis of 143 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: aesthetics and function. 144 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah. One of my favorite quotations about 145 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: architecture is the following. I can't remember who said it, 146 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: but they essentially said architecture is frozen music. And that's 147 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: such a beautiful way to think of it, and I 148 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: think Frank would agree. He may have even been the 149 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: guy who made that quote. So apologies if you're listening 150 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Frank somehow out there in the ether. We do have 151 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: good news for young Kitty and young Frank at this point, 152 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: because Frank's mentor, Louis Sullivan, is such a big deal 153 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: and so well healed. He goes to Frank and he says, hey, kid, 154 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: I'll help you out with a loan, and I'm happy 155 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: to give you the money pay me back when you can. 156 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: The only coveat here will be that you have to 157 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: agree to work under me directly for five years, which 158 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: is really cool because again, in our earlier comparison, that's 159 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: like going that's like working into Apple going to Steve 160 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: Jobs and saying, hey, will you help me? Will you 161 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: basically buy me a house? And then Steve goes, oh, yeah, sure, man, 162 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: you just have to work at this wonderful job for five. 163 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: Years, right, And you know, we talked about this, I 164 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: think recently on stuff that it wants you to know 165 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: just about how you know, with the advent of automation 166 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: or the I guess further it exponential spread of automation 167 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: and AI, things like apprenticeship programs and sort of more 168 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: journeyman kind of craftsmen, things are not what they used 169 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: to be. This is exactly the example of this at 170 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: its best, right and at its highest level. 171 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a good one, right, and I 172 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: love that comparison. For a while, Kitty and Frank are 173 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: seeing their dreams come true, but they also soon find 174 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: themselves with a total of like six kids. They eventually 175 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: have six kids together. And so again, just like in 176 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: his childhood, Frank is facing serious financial concerns and this 177 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: drives him to moonlight. He starts accepting independent commissions to 178 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: design houses outside of his contract agreement with his mentor. 179 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: And if we want to contextualize that in the modern day, 180 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: Nolan Max, I think we've all done a little bit 181 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: of like call it consulting or maybe writing or editing 182 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: or making music or producing for shows that friends do. 183 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: Right, Like, we've all done that and I also think 184 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 2: I'm certain in fact, that all three of us worked 185 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: on a mentorship program we had here at iHeart, you know, 186 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: for up and coming podcasters, helping folks on the development 187 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 2: side and you know, production side with Max and all 188 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff. And it's really nice. It's 189 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: a nice thing to be able to do, and it's 190 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: easy to take for granted, like just through experience alone, 191 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: how much shareable wisdom one can kind of amass, you know, 192 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: And you don't really notice sometimes until you're talking to 193 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: someone who hasn't been in it like you have, and 194 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: then you realize, wait a minute, I gotta know a 195 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: thing or two about this architecture game. And of course 196 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: you know the architecture of podcasting. 197 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. That's so accurate. And folks, we 198 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: are the opposite of arrogant people. So the way I 199 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: always like to put it in those situations is not 200 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: in such a new medium, nobody is really the We 201 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: don't have a Frank Lloyd rite of podcasting yet, but 202 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: we have guys like us who have had the opportunity 203 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: to make most of the imaginable mistakes. So we like 204 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: to help people avoid, you know, like learn from our mistakes, 205 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: we like to help you avoid them. And also I 206 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: want to give on that point, I want to give 207 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: Max a special shout out here. Max, your work with 208 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: Next Up has just been phenomenal. 209 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: So think that was the name of the program. Yeah, 210 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: Max did way more of these than we did, but 211 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: I know Ben and I did a few, and it's 212 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: super fun and super rewarding and a great thing to 213 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: be able to do. And Frank was benefiting from this obviously, 214 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: this mentor saw in him not only promise but potentially 215 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 2: like maybe not a cash cow, but he I think 216 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: he did see ways that he could benefit from this relationship, 217 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: knowing that Frank was a wonder kin I guess as 218 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: they called him. 219 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the perfect phrase for it. Unfortunately, 220 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: this situation, this padawan situation, didn't end well because yeah, 221 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: Frank likely saw these this moonlighting, these extra contracts as 222 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: just a little bit more cheddar from a side hustle. 223 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: What's wrong with that? Well, Louis Sullivan found out and 224 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: he was livid, like he was pissed, and he was I'm. 225 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: Saying right, he was trying to lock that down. You know, 226 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: He's like, you are my guy, you know, Yeah, so 227 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: he was really happy. 228 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: Was not happy. He felt this was a breach not 229 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: just of their contract, but of their actual friendship. We 230 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: still don't know whether Frank resigned or whether he was fired, 231 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: but this disagreement, this perceived betrayal, caused a beef that 232 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: would last almost twenty years. 233 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: Man, he gotta squash the beef, guys, not worth it, 234 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: not worth it. Luckily, Frank saw an opportunity in all 235 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: of this nastiness. In eighteen ninety three, he what do 236 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: they call it, Ben, hung up his own shingle. Yeah, yeah, yes, 237 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: opened his own office and started designing homes that he 238 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: felt had a connection to the regional sort of spirit 239 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: of the American prairie. So he was already from the 240 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: start really thinking not form over function, but like he 241 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: was a very form formal guy, you know, he was 242 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: trying to like connect structures with the spirit of the 243 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: place in which they were, you know, located. 244 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: That's a great way to say it. Yeah, it's very 245 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: much a matter of esthetic and philosophy more so than 246 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: like it's it's asking the question not just how does 247 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: a person exist in this building, but how does this 248 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: building exist on the land? 249 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: You know, And this is no ding to more you know, 250 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: straightforward types of builders or contractors or whatever. But that's 251 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: not quite You have to have an architect in the 252 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: situation is to like, you know, have the plans approved 253 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: for code and all of that. But I think when 254 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: we think architect now, in our mind's eye, we picture 255 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: something a little more flashy and you know, personal, like 256 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: the work of Frankloyd. 257 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, yeah, man, like the I love that point 258 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: because one of my neighbors is a is an architect, 259 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: and his specialization is entirely windows. Like he lives, breathes, 260 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: and eats and sleeps windows, and I love talking to 261 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: the guy. I think we all see a little bit 262 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: of magic, a little bit of wizardry in the craft 263 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: of architecture in that discipline, and a lot of that perception, honestly, 264 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: in the modern day comes from people like Frank Lloyd. Right, 265 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: He's not just building buildings, He's making statements about the 266 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: world around us. Okay, maybe we're being too nice to 267 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: the guy. You'll see why. I'm walking that back his 268 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: new office, like you're saying, his new office, once it opens, 269 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: it starts getting commissions. He's beaten the streets, you know, 270 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: he's shaking the hands, kissing the babies, networking. This leads 271 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: to a deal to design a house for a guy 272 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: named W. H. Winslow. And as we've mentioned previously, we 273 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: do have a bit of a stereotype often, folks. When Noel, 274 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: Max and I here an historical name with two initials 275 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: and then a surname, we assume the guy's rich. 276 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: Great, Okay, Yeah, it's got a bit of a hoy 277 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: toity quality to it. 278 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: Yes, And this, luckily for Frank, this new house design, 279 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: his very first job at the at the new office, 280 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: is a hit. It makes serious waves, and it grabs 281 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: the eye of another guy, another architect named Daniel Burnham. 282 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: This is like another Steve Jobs. He is the He 283 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: is acknowledged at the time as the most influential architect 284 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: in all of. 285 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: Chicago, which is architect city for Franks and purposes. Right, 286 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: so this is the guy for a moner of comparison 287 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: that you draw Ben as a hip hop head, it's 288 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: like making your first hip hop album and all of 289 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 2: a sudden, Doctor dre and Eminem you know, do a 290 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: conference call at. 291 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: You right right, that'd be intimidating. Also, yeah, we don't 292 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: not everybody loves drade Em and m but you know, 293 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: picture whomever you're thinking about in that meal you yeah, uh, okay. 294 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: So what we're saying is Burnham feels he is discovered, 295 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: like you said, no avunder Kidd, once in a generation talent. 296 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: And this guy Burnham pitches a deal to Frank and 297 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: it's another crazy cool idea from a mentor. He says, Look, man, 298 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: I will subsidize your life for years. I will be 299 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: your patron so long as you agree to go study 300 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: in Europe and then come back with that knowledge and 301 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: become the principal designer in my firm. 302 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 2: Okay, so not it's got a different flavor than his 303 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: previous opportunity where this guy still wants to lock him down, 304 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 2: but boy is he sweetening the deal. And I think 305 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: maybe now Frank has learned his lesson and knows that, Okay, 306 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: maybe if I go through with this, I can get 307 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 2: this crazy level of education and then all so be 308 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: working for the best firm. It's going to allow me 309 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: to do exactly what I want to do and I'm 310 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: not going to have to seek these side jobs and 311 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: maybe you know, hurt my new besties feelings. 312 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be a reasonable assumption. And I think 313 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: that's safe to say. That's what you and I and 314 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: probably Max would do. It's such a great offer. I'll 315 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: pay for everything. Oh you go on vacation to Europe. 316 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: I'll pay for that too, and then come be my 317 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: best boy, my right hand man. Get this though, folks, 318 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: Frank says, nah. 319 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: What Yeah, he doesn't do it, Okay, So he knows 320 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: what he's worth. He knows at this point. Maybe the 321 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: lesson he actually learned from his previous mentorship was more like, 322 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 2: I don't need anybody, man, I. 323 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: Got maybe yeah, and maybe you know, not to read 324 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: the tea leaves of personality too much here. But maybe 325 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: he was responding with that in that way because training 326 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: in Europe would mean he's studying established architecture ah and 327 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: not doing his own thing. 328 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. He was already thinking several steps ahead to 329 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: his own unique school of architecture of something that is 330 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 2: entirely American that is now known as you can imagine 331 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: with what we described earlier as the Prairie school, which 332 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 2: is so funny, Ben, because when I think of the Prairie, 333 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 2: I think of like little house on you know, like 334 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: very non ostentatious kind of stuff. And I guess that 335 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 2: is what makes his work interesting, because it is somehow 336 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: simultaneously grand and austere at the same time. Yeah. 337 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: And you can read some great in depth descriptions of 338 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: the Prairie School, and I think there's room for grand 339 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: and austere here because they have this. They eventually cultivate 340 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: this radical approach for making modern homes with mass produced 341 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: materials and equipment, and they have a lot of open 342 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: spaces like the Dixie Chicks. You know the prayer, understand 343 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: the reference, but I believe you the song wide Open 344 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: Spaces by the Time is a song. 345 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with the work of the Chicks. 346 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: It's the only one I know. Oh that's right, they're 347 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: just the Chicks. Now we're getting old, bro. But yes, 348 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: this guy is turning down the status quo in the 349 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: coxotic pursuit of a new way of building. And by 350 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred his bet on himself pays off. The style 351 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: is established, it's immensely popular. Frank is only thirty three 352 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: years old at this time. He is the main character 353 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: of this new architectural revolution. 354 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he had the chops man in the 355 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: space of just ten years from nineteen hundred and nineteen ten, 356 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: he built around fifty of these prairie style homes. He 357 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: also became a lecturer. Dajure in his particular field, did 358 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: a little bit of a tinorant, traveling himself a lot 359 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 2: like his father, only he was definitely getting paid, no 360 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 2: question about it. His work was featured in exhibitions. His 361 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: firm tackled more than just standalone houses, as you can imagine. 362 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: Of course, that's where his legacy is headache. They built 363 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 2: everything from apartment buildings to group dwellings to rec centers, 364 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: businesses and churches. 365 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: We should also mention what we're talking about, traveling widely. 366 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: He is a globe trotter. In nineteen five he went 367 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: to Japan, and honestly he became kind of a wiya boo. 368 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: Check out that term if you don't know what it means, folks. 369 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: But he had always cited Japanese wood block prints as 370 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: one of his big aesthetic influences, and when he traveled 371 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: to Japan for the first few times he called it 372 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: he was not at all hesitant with his praise. He really, 373 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: what do we call it today? He glazed Japan. He 374 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: said this is the most romantic, artistic, nature inspired country 375 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: on earth. It was hugely important to go, so he 376 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: went there again in nineteen thirteen. He spent almost three 377 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: years there from nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty two, building 378 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: something called the New Imperial Hotel in Tokyo. And the 379 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: whole time, every time he traveled to Japan, even when 380 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: he was back in the States, he was always aggressively 381 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: collecting screens and textiles and pottery and sculptures from Japan, 382 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: and then he would later incorporate these as kind of 383 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: easter eggs in his architectural spaces because the Japanese style 384 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: of architecture, I think really spoke to his own values 385 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: and perspective. 386 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 2: Well, it makes perfect sense. I mean, this is a 387 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: culture steeped in esthetics mixed with function, you know, and 388 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: remains so to this day. I mean, they've got they've 389 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: certainly got a lot on us here in the States 390 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: in terms of just their city planning, incorporating all of 391 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: these gorgeous temples into city scapes and you know, more 392 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: urban environments, not to mention just the practical nature of 393 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 2: their rails, their their travel, and the way it's all 394 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: kind of perfectly integrated into the big picture of what 395 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: it's like to live in a city, of course, which 396 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: I think is what he's talking about and probably most admiring. 397 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 2: But of course in the villages as well, you have 398 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: more carkening back to those kind of early days of 399 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: Japanese you know, homes and structures like the sliding doors 400 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 2: and the kind of matted floors and things like that, 401 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: all very much designed it to be efficient, energy efficient, 402 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: all of that stuff they had it on lock. 403 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah, and this all sounds great, right. 404 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 2: Folks can also point out to Ben it would have 405 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 2: taken him almost a month to get from the East 406 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 2: coast of the United States to Japan. In those days, 407 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: he would have had to take a train from Chicago 408 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: all the way to San Francisco. So now we're talking 409 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: even longer of a time, probably than a month, and 410 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 2: then take a steamer from the coast to Japan. So yeah, 411 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: we're talking about a month's time one way. 412 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: Which is crazy because now you can do it in 413 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: a day, depending on where you live in the States. 414 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: So it is it is great, These are grand adventures, 415 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: but folks, we have to remember, despite acknowledging the man's genius, 416 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: we also mentioned controversy, and as so often happens with 417 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: larger than life figures, his meteor like rise in his 418 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: professional career occurs in step with sharp and horrible declines 419 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: in his personal life. Like we said, he married young 420 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: who is only twenty two. Fast forward to nineteen oh three, 421 00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: He's designing a house for a married guy named Edwin Cheney, 422 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: who is a neighbor of his in the in the 423 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: Oak Park area of Chicago, and he meets Edwin's wife, 424 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: a lady named Martha Borthwick Cheney or Mama with an 425 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: H at the end to her. 426 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: Friends, Mama, Mama Cheney, Martha Borthwick Cheney, or Mama to 427 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: her friends. As he said, Ben was a kind of 428 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: an early feminist and right viewed her in a very 429 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: progressive way of of looking at women at the time, 430 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 2: as his intellectual equal. Their relationship became the talk of 431 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 2: the town. They could often be seen taking rides together 432 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 2: and writes automobile through Oak. 433 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: Park without their respective spouses, without a chaperone, without a 434 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: without I don't know why I'm talking, like they were 435 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: in Kentucky or something like that. I Yeah, Frank's marriage 436 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: has been drifting for a while he is estranged from 437 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: his wife Kitty, and in nineteen oh nine or by 438 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine, his budding dalliance with Mama Cheney was 439 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: increasingly difficult to ignore. These two folks actually ditched their 440 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: spouses and their children and high tailed it off to Europe. 441 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: This is a crazy scandal, and they both ask their 442 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: spouses for a divorce. Mama's husband, Edwin, grants her a 443 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: divorce and, actually, speaking of strange for the time, he 444 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: gets custody of the children. But Frank's wife, Catherine Kiddie 445 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: Right refuses. She says, I'm not going to agree to 446 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: a divorce. You're crazy. We have six kids. What are 447 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: you doing in Europe? They knew that while they were 448 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: in Europe they had another series of adventures that may 449 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: be a different episode, but they knew the entire time 450 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: that this was a temporary escape for them. If they 451 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: returned back to Chicago, they would not be able to 452 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: weather the serious scandal that would ensue. Their affair was 453 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: already generating a lot of ill will in high society, 454 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: and it's the stuff that could negatively impact Frank's career, 455 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: so to put it simply, and a little undiplomatically. Nobody 456 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: wanted to work with a guy they thought was a scumbag. 457 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to a lithario right with someone they found 458 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: morally objectionable. And we also have to remember that when 459 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about his clients, we are talking about well 460 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: to do people. It's there's a certain financial threshold required 461 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: to say, build for me a building. 462 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: Well not to mention that these circles of the super 463 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: wealthy in a place like Chicago are pretty tight, and 464 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: people talk crap and you can very quickly be ostracized 465 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: and cast out of these social circles. Rich people be caddy. 466 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 1: Yes, And we also have to remember that whenever some 467 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: even before the Internet, folks, whenever somebody gets very famous 468 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: or very prominent very quickly, there's always a contingent of 469 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: the public that wants to tear them. 470 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: Down, cut them down to size, take them down a 471 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: few pegs, get them off there high. It would be 472 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: an architectural version of a horse podium column. Yeah, there 473 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: you got, And that's just what happened, more or less. 474 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: But you know again, Lloyd at this point was kind 475 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: of doing the more basic version of what ultimately became 476 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: his kind of like you know, I'm the one who 477 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 2: who decides what I build, and I'm gonna build things 478 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: for the sake of like leaving a lasting impression, like 479 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,479 Speaker 2: the Pyramids of Old, you know that kind of stuff. 480 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: Not so much I'm gonna build a house on contract, 481 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 2: Like what am I gonna build that's gonna be one 482 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: of the great wonders of the world or as we 483 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier on in ESCO World Heritage site. 484 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So they try to address this scandal, and 485 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: they go into kind of a pr move and a 486 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: bit of a conspiracy. So Frank returns to the United 487 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: States in October of nineteen ten, and he's ostensibly traveling alone. 488 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: He comes back by himself, and he temporarily reconciles with 489 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: his estranged wife Kitty. This is probably at least in 490 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: part to improve his public image, as he said, in 491 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: that tightly knit high society. But the entire time he 492 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: has a secret plan. He goes to his mom and says, Mama, 493 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: not my mistress but my actual mother. Wi Ye, mother, 494 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: will you will you put your name on some land 495 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: on a deed for me in spring Green, Wisconsin And 496 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: this is near where his family has lived. 497 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: Bro is this like a Disney kind of like Florida 498 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: Project situation where he's trying to, you know, get people 499 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: off his trail, where he's trying to do something in 500 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: secret by putting his mom's name on it so that 501 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 2: he's not tied to I'm sorry, i don't know this 502 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: part of the story, so I'm on the edge of 503 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 2: my seat. 504 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's exactly. It's eerily similar to that. You nailed it. 505 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: He's trying to get people off his trail because putting 506 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: the property in his mother's name helps him avoid too 507 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: much public attention. Right, He'll still have a Chicago office, 508 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 1: but he'll spend more time away and at this at 509 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: the very same time that he is reconciling with his wife, Kittie, Right, 510 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: he's also working to get funding for a house who 511 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: wants to build on this land at Spring Green, and 512 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: he's building it to be a studio, right, a meditative concentration, 513 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: concentration spot for him. But it's also a place he 514 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: can still live with his mistress, Mama Cheney, without reporters. 515 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: Finding out he's being a le Yeah, he's making some 516 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: money moves. That's just sick. Yeah, gosh, he has a 517 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: bit of a Rascal. 518 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he This land purchase goes through on April tenth, 519 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, and it's right next to land that his 520 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: mom's family, the Lloyd Jones, is already owned. Right, starts 521 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: building himself this new home and he calls it talison 522 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: t A l I E s I n taliesan. 523 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: Uh. This cult has giving talisman. You know, it's giving 524 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: mystical wizardry. I don't know why. 525 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's that's perfect. It is a mystical 526 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: wizard like name. It means shining brow in Welsh. Remember 527 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: his mom's family is Welsh, and the name refers to 528 00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: an old school Welsh bard, poet, magician and priest. 529 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 2: What a magician and those things seem diametrically opposed. 530 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: Can you be a magician priest? 531 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 2: I guess it depends on what your priesting? You know? Yeah, 532 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 2: this is why I get. 533 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what game you're playing. But 534 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: you can multi class. 535 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: That's eric. I love where this story is going. Then 536 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: this is a lot of this is very new to me. 537 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: So I'm guessing we're inching towards the aforementioned promise of 538 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: cult activity. 539 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's We're going to get there, Volts, even 540 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: if it takes us the rest. 541 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: Of the week for a second episode. Even yeah, that's 542 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 2: what you're in bying the rest of the week. I 543 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: got you, I got you. 544 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: So this home eventually it's going to become a commune. 545 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: Uh Now it's officially known as the Talison Fellowship, Talisan 546 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: North or Talisan Spring Green. It's a beautiful how studio 547 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: custom built on and what ultimately becomes more than five 548 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: hundred acres, And it's really clever because the main compound 549 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: is itself a testament to the Prairie School. It's an 550 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: advertisement for Frank's design philosophies. So he abandons his wife 551 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: again and the six kids again. He shacks up with 552 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: his mistress. She is now going by Mama Borthwick post divorce. 553 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: Right she gets there that summer, she tries to throw 554 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: the heat off too by letting it be unofficially known 555 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote that she's living with Wright's sister, with Frank 556 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: Wright's sister. But Frank is, for better or worse, pretty 557 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: much a celebrity. People want to know what he's doing. 558 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: TMZ is not in play yet, but people still have 559 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: that instinct. So word gets around, Yeah, gets around. He's 560 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: still with his mistress. 561 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: Well he's also yeah, yes, that's right. And Ben, would 562 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: you say this is he's building a bit of a 563 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: cult of personality at the very least by this point 564 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: he's making a splash, both with his work and his 565 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: idiosyncratic behavior. 566 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes, very much. So we're laying the bones for 567 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: that conversation about about cultiness and tragedy. We know that 568 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: one reporter from the Chicago Examiner figured out that Frank 569 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: and Mama were living together again over there in Wisconsin, 570 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: and literally on Christmas Eve of that same year, the 571 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune revealed the truth about Talison to the world, 572 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: and they didn't care about this fancy, you know, somewhat 573 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: high fluting Welsh name and heritage and all that. Instead 574 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: they called this Frank's love cottage. It's Castle of Love. 575 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: So he's forty seven, and again he is in hot water, 576 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: but he and Mama feel like they're past the point 577 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: of return. You know, they're already living there. 578 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: So if they were going to have to live a 579 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 2: life of social exile, they were able to kind of 580 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 2: have it on their terms. You know. Talisan was definitely 581 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 2: not the worst place for them to do that. They 582 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: had everything they need. Talisan is primarily referred to in 583 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 2: three big Stages of construction because over the course of 584 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: rights occupancy, two major fires led to the need for 585 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 2: significant restorations and which also probably led to some alterations 586 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: of the previous designs. Yeah. 587 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even Frank didn't get everything right every time. 588 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: There were some things he designed that were beautiful that 589 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: that just didn't work. They weren't super practical even if 590 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: they were beautiful. But think of it like Talson. One 591 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: has best thought of as three big sections. There's a 592 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: long section to the east that's the residential wing where 593 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: Frank and Mama lived. There's a big section on the 594 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: west that's the agricultural wing. And then there's an office 595 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: wing connecting the other sections, or I should say, like 596 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: the business wing and then the office wing or the 597 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: studio wing and the office wing. There's a courtyard to 598 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: the southwest. There's stables, there's a garage, there's servants quarters, 599 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: maintenance facilities, and as soon as they move in, Frank says, 600 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: all right, I'm getting back in the swing of things 601 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: with this architecture stuff. I'm still really about that. But 602 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: due to this negative publicity from the affair. There are 603 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: still people like you would call them draftsmen who come 604 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: to study under him, but high society still doesn't really 605 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 1: want to work with this guy. 606 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: Would he have been independently wealthy at this point too, 607 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 2: And I mean it seems like he wasn't needing cash money, 608 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 2: you know, to take these gigs, like he was sort 609 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 2: of focusing on building this compound for himself. So he 610 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: had to have had some independence at this point. 611 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was making he was making a living, right, 612 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: but he was not I don't believe at this point 613 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: was he was at the juncture where he could just retire. 614 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 2: He still had but he had some flexibility because he 615 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 2: certainly didn't seem like he was not able to pursue 616 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: this project because it didn't have enough cash coming in. 617 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 2: But he also wasn't doing tons of these more traditional 618 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 2: gigs because of the fact that he had kind of 619 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: been shunned. 620 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and his stature in the architectural community is indeed 621 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: a currency all its own. So there were still at 622 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: this point. Even then, even early on, there were people 623 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: who said, yeah, I know about this scandal, but being 624 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: associated with this man's legendary work is more than worth 625 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 1: the social backlash to me. So he had a lot 626 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: of disciples showing up, a lot of employees. Local residents 627 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: did not agree. This was the big scandal of the 628 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: small town. They didn't Soup's dupes appreciate their new neighbors. 629 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: We have a statement from the superintendent of Iowa County Schools, 630 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: who I guess was a moral authority of the time. Yeah, 631 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: and so okay, this is like where's joh rule? But 632 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: the superintendent of the schools. 633 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 2: We must know where he falls on this issue. 634 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: Yes, right said. The scandal is bound to out a 635 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: demoralizing effect on the school children of the community. It 636 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: is an outrage to allow young men and women, and 637 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: boys and girls to grow up in the belief that 638 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 1: a man and a woman can go disregard the marriage bonds. 639 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: Living in sin. They didn't say living in sin. We 640 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: said that last part. 641 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 2: We did. Yes, we did, indeed living in sin at 642 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 2: the Love Shack, Baby, Love Shack. 643 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. And this did not This did not get to 644 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: Frank and Mama. At least they did not leave town. 645 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: They stood up against the social opprobrium, and when they 646 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: refused to leave, some of the more moralistic locals even 647 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: went to the town sheriff and said, you've got to 648 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: arrest this Frank guy. And the sheriff said, for what 649 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: they were like, he's a jerk. Uh. It didn't work, spoiler, 650 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: and Frank wasn't cowed. In fact, he doubled out. I 651 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: think I would find this pretty interesting. 652 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 2: Phenomenal dude. This quote is so indicative of where he 653 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 2: was at in terms of his opinion about himself. 654 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: He had some hard, hot and I will say condescending takes. 655 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: Can you give it to us? Oh? 656 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 2: I would love to. He said two women were necessary 657 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 2: for a man of artistic mind, one to be the 658 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 2: mother of his children and the other to be his 659 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 2: mental companion, his inspiration and soulmate. Well, you see, the 660 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 2: world might could be the same person. It's possible. I 661 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 2: don't now. Look, I'm no traditionalist by any shirts of 662 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: the imagination, and you know, love is love, but it's 663 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,240 Speaker 2: an odd way of putting it, especially with the one 664 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 2: needing to be the mother of his child, the implication 665 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 2: being that that person couldn't possibly have the qualities of 666 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 2: the other. He is inherently like misogynists, Yes, very much so. 667 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: And also the condescension of a man of artistic mind, right, Like, 668 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: it's okay for the dumbs and the pores to do 669 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: whatever they want, but I'm above it. He also he 670 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: had all these problematic quotes. He told another reporter. Laws 671 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: and rules are made for the average. The ordinary man 672 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: cannot live without rules to guide his conduct. It is 673 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: infinitely more difficult to live without rules. But that is 674 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: what the really honest, sincere thinking man is compelled to do. 675 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: Wank wank, wank. What a dick? 676 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a dick, but he was also genius. And yeah, 677 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 2: there's a Venn diagram of dicks and geniuses. When you can, 678 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 2: you can quote me on them. So not only was 679 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: he not apologetic or contrite in the slightest, he seemed 680 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 2: pretty sure that he was in a rarefied air, floating 681 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 2: above whatever traditional society expected of him or considered moral, 682 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 2: and didn't have a problem coming off as you know, 683 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 2: heavy handed, high minded, condescending in his quotes. 684 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely got some holier than now vibes. 685 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: And the thing is, though, even though even though it 686 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: was difficult for him to get commissions, and even though 687 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: he was maybe not working as much as he wanted to, 688 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: what he did create during this period made the history books, 689 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: things like the Midway Gardens in Chicago and the Avery 690 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: Coonley Playhouse in Riverside, Illinois. Oh and also at the 691 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: same time, he keeps on collecting this Japanese art so 692 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: much so that he becomes separate from architecture. He becomes 693 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of famous as an authority on Japanese art. 694 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 2: Makes sense. There's been a lot written about this period 695 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 2: of you know Right's life and this first version of Tolisin, 696 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 2: and it's definitely worth checking out onto itself. For a 697 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 2: time though, it seemed that Frank and Mama we're going 698 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 2: to be able to live out their lives in relative, 699 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 2: if isolated peace. That is, until the fire. 700 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: That's our cliffhanger. Folks are so proud of ourselves for 701 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: doing a two Parker on purpose. This is part one 702 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: of Frank Lloyd Wright Wright's dark Side from colts to 703 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: mass murders. Please check out our second episode coming out 704 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: later this week. That this is the one where we 705 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: have the big plot twist in the turn. But honestly, no, 706 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 1: we couldn't think of a better cliffhanger. 707 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:55,879 Speaker 2: The fire. 708 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: Big thanks to our super producer Max Blaze, and Saddles. Williams. 709 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: Fire just was on my mind with that one. 710 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 2: Max blazed in the days, Williams, Here we go big 711 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 2: thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacob's big big thanks for rude 712 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 2: Dudes of ridiculous crime. 713 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: Who else, who else? 714 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 2: Chris hasiotas the names, Jeff Coats here in spirits wherever 715 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 2: they may roam, Rachel Bigxminish Lance, the Doctor of Underwater Explosions, Yes. 716 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 1: Ed of course, A tepid how do you do to 717 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister? 718 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: A passive aggressive doffing of the cap. Hey, we'll see 719 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 2: you next time, folks for Part two. For more podcasts 720 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 721 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows,