WEBVTT - Paul Dechant on Unforgiven 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.960 Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.920 Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:37.159 In here with Paul again after it seems like it's 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.920 been a minute, Paul, I think it's been since before 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.320 I moved to New York, which is where I'm Lord's 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.960 where I'm coming to you now from. That's right, you're 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.280 in Brooklyn, I am, Yeah, in a little closet right 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:55.279 now in Brooklyn. Come out of the closet, Paul, already, 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.760 come on. Maybe maybe by the end of this episode, 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.080 I will that right, And you know we've spoken since then, obviously, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.560 but I'm everyone should know that you're doing well. You've 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.120 got a great place, you're happy, you're living with with 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.800 your lady friend now finally after quite a while apart. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.600 So congratulations, thanks man. Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm enjoying 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.960 New York. It's hot though, and I'm getting used to 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:24.520 having window air conditioners instead of central a C. Yeah. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.000 Those windows they can pump it out sometimes though, if 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.880 they're good, they can. But it's just it's just an adjustment, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.080 for sure. Yeah, sometimes you have to wait wait to 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.880 get cool, just than having it right away. New York 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.800 Hut is different too. It's pretty steamy. The concrete makes 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:48.720 it very unpleasant. Yes, agreed, But enough about New York City, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.640 because we're here to talk about a Western. We haven't 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.680 done then many westerns on this show. And when you 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.559 threw out a short list of movies, Unforgiven was on there, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:00.920 and it had been a while since I've seen it, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.320 so I jumped all over this one. I'm glad man, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.400 I'm a I'm a Western fan and um I in 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.560 fact Unforgiven though I didn't see this for the first 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.920 time until a couple of months ago. I've kind of 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.920 been going on in Clint Eastwood kick and uh, mostly 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.320 like the films he's directed himself, and Unforgiven has always 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.840 has always kind of been considered one of his top movies, 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:27.200 and so I don't know, just like a couple of 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.200 months ago, I watched it and I was just like 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.600 blown away by how great it was and really excited 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.760 to talk about it today. Dude, that's great. I didn't 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.440 know that this was new to you. Clint Eastwood is 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.799 a legend. He uh, he is someone who's politics I 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:43.720 don't agree with, but I just I love the guy 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.760 even so you know it's I forget about all that stuff. 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:52.200 He um this. I believe his movie coming out this 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:56.440 year will be either his thirty ninth or film as director, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.720 which is just crazy. Man, he's not. I don't feel 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.720 like he's on the short list for a lot of 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.480 people for best directors, and he should be. At the 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.000 tender age of ninety one. I think, uh, he's pumping 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.560 out movies one one every year at this rate. Uh, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.280 And it's just it's honestly, it's pretty inspiring to like 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.359 watch at this point because um uh, you know, some 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.200 of them are hit and miss, but I like a 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.440 lot of them, especially his recent work and just the 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.560 way he works. And like, like you mentioned, I I 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.160 tend to disagree with his politics as well, but I 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.280 think that that will make this conversation richer because despite 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:40.240 his politics, I personally find a lot more ambivalence and 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.800 uh nuance in his movies then you might think from 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.560 somebody who too sort of character tries him, you might 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.080 think of as like a crotchety old conservative guy telling 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.640 young people to get off my lawn. You know. Yeah, 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.360 I mean he's really not doing a lot of that 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.680 in his movie. He's I guess Grand Torino had had 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.680 a bit of that element to it, but Great Arena 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.600 was fucking great. I love that movie. Yeah, I actually 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.680 just watched it on a plane a couple of weeks 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.640 ago for the first time. Yeah. Man, it's good, and 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.920 it's it's so fun to dive into like sort of 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:21.039 his psyche because again, he has these like surprisingly like 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.520 progressive views or things he shows in his movies despite 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.680 him sort of being like a sort of old fashioned 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.920 guy who believes in like say, you know, strong men 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.200 and and you know, uh, he thinks, you know, America 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.920 has become a nation of pussies and stuff like that, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.600 you know. But uh, and I think and Unforgiven is 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.839 is a great example of sort of how he sort 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.440 of deconstructs a genre that is known for sort of 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.520 the strong silent man, you know. Yeah, and this is 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.479 a movie that was I think everyone kind of thought 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.520 this was his his goodbye to westerns uh, and it 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.000 kind of had been. Although his new movie coming out 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.400 is sort of a Western um not quite like this, 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.560 I think it's said in the seventies, but it definitely 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.080 is a is a bit of a Western um. But 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.719 this definitely is is his last sort of Hurrah to 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:20.760 the the pale writer character. This the Josie Whale's strong 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.920 silent type, and um, I remember when it came out, 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.359 it was it seemed very much a sort of a 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.159 statement movie, like this is it, This is gonna be 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.080 my my swan song for this kind of movie, And 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.160 what a statement it is. First of all, the fact 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.680 that it won four Oscars, including Best Picture, surprises me 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.600 just because how great it is. And um, meaning like 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.280 I feel like a lot of the times, the Best 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.920 Picture often goes to a film that might be good 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.840 in my opinion, but not the best of that year, 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.520 and I forget what else would have been nominated that year. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.040 But when I look at like the I looked recently 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.960 at the list of like all the Best Picture winners 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.279 for the past forty years, Like I can think of 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.400 a handful of them that I consider like canon movies 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.200 that like people still talk about and I would still 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.680 go back to, and movies that just have stood the 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.479 test of time, and I think Unforgiven as one of 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.800 them for sure. Yeah, so this one best pure huh yeah, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:21.360 best Picture, and I've got it somewhere here. Best Director. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.960 I meant to look that up. Okay, Best Editing and 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.080 Best Supporting Actor for Gene Hackman, and then He's Good, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.039 and then Eastwood himself was nominated for Best Actor but 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.760 lost to al Pacino for Scent of a Woman. Wow, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.120 a movie I still haven't seen. I saw it ages ago, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.920 but I need to need to revisit it. I think, Yeah, 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.080 it's funny the a couple of comments on that one 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.560 best Editing. I love that this one best editing because 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:54.840 it is such a thoughtfully edited and paced movie, and 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.400 I think that they don't get recognized as much. Uh, 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.840 there's no thing flashy about this movie. It is a 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.599 very very simple story. Was that a fly? There's a 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.680 gigantic fly in my closet here? Yeah? Uh? And then 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.360 the with with Hackman. It's funny you mentioned Pacino because 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.280 I was thinking when I was watching this, how people 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.800 make such hay out of like when de Niro and 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.400 Pacino finally got together in Heat and they shared the 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.080 screen and and it was great, and they've done that 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.600 I think since then. But like, why isn't even anyone 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.880 talking about Eastwood and Hackman sharing the screen? And then 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.760 throw in a Morgan Freeman like a third legend on 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.680 top of it. It's like to me, that was seeing 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.240 those two guys go toe to toe is just as 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.560 big a deal to me. Gene Hackman is one of 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.720 my favorite of all time. I'm like, I miss him 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.119 so so much. I know, I know, yeah, he's he's 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.400 so good in it, and uh, the role he plays, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.600 it's easy to sort of say, like, oh, you can't 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.440 imagine this role being played by anybody else, but I 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.440 really feel that with this owl. And and like you said, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.600 I don't have they worked him and him and Eastwood 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.040 work together on any other films, not that I can 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.840 think of. I can't. I mean, there's probably some obvious 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:10.880 one that everyone is like going to make fun of 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.200 us for forgetting, but I can't really think of anything. 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.000 And then Richard Harris is in it too. It's like, 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.840 good lord, yeah, it's it's funny because like I or 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.760 what I most know Richard Harris for is playing Dumbledore 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.760 in the first two Harry Potter movies. Get out right now, 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:31.080 get out of that closet and leave before he passed away. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.160 He was Dumbledore for two movies, and so he's like, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.600 you know, this wise and old gentle soul in Harry Potter. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.240 And then seeing him I and I i've since I 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.880 know he has had a long and illustrious career aside 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.280 from Harry Potter. But seeing him in that another role, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.400 he really sort of choose up the scenery in a 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:54.560 great way. Yeah. I love English Bob. He's he's pretty great. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.000 It's funny. I thought it was funny, how in another 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:03.120 great role from Saul Rubenek as but Champ the writer, Um, 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.000 the writer who has no stomach for this stuff. He 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.200 wants to record the Old West. He wants to be 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.280 the biographer of these guys that I think he feels 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.560 like he admires. But I think he admired Bob because 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.680 Bob was this sort of winning, fun, jovial Englishman when 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.400 the tables are turned and then he is the back 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:26.440 for a little bill uh, He's he's in over his 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.280 head and he knows it, and that he's a sadist 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.160 in a and a genuinely evil person, and that's not 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.840 who English Bob was. The boat Champ character. Yeah, he 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.120 fascinates me for for a lot of reasons. And I 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.120 think you hit on it, Um when you're talking about 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.120 like the myth of the Old West and how I 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.360 feel like the Western compared to some other genres as 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.679 kind of very much a genre of cinema, right, that 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.800 cinema really created the Western, and so we have this 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.040 sort of archetypes, the archetypes of Westerns, you know, the 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.920 good gun slinger staring down out gunned out man, staring 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.000 down a room of bad guys and taking them all 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.800 out against the odds. Uh. And bow Champ is writing 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.640 these basically very much fictitious stories, as we learn with 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.880 English Bob when little Bill sort of corrects him on 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.840 the story he was writing about. Okay, here's what actually happened. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.000 It was not heroic at all. Bob was drunk, and 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.080 the story about Parky that was pretty funny. Yeah. And 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.240 the duck, the Duck of Death really the Duke, the 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.240 Duke of Death. Yeah, the Duck of Death really just 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.520 uh kind of got lucky and took his time and 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.120 shot the guy sort of unarmed and without any honor 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.920 in quotation marks. And then though the sort of bow 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.360 Champ switches allegiances and he stays with Hackman because he's 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.280 enamored with hearing Hackman stories. And then you see them 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.760 sort of uh in in Hackman's Leaky House with the 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.760 roof leaking water, and he's telling more stories and you 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.040 can tell that he's embellishing them himself, right, that's yea. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.240 And then finally, so what I think is interesting is 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.480 during the final shootout when when Eastwood shows up and 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.840 he you know, he kills the room of quote unquote 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.880 bad guys and and bow Champ is in the back. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.800 And you see though his face like light up when 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.520 he enters the room, and once he starts taking out guys, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.360 he's like he's he's sort of twisted lee fascinated by it, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.439 and he's almost like, oh, this is this is the 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.360 best one of them all. This is the king of 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.720 gun slingers. And he immediately says, Okay, who did you 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:32.880 shoot first? And uh, it's usually traditionally the the fastest 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.800 gun you want to take out of the most lethal 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.080 and Eastwood just like, oh, I just got lucky, you know. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.079 But he's clearly like still fascinated by this, and even 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.240 though he's witnessed this horrific violence, he still wants to 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.960 sort of embellish it and write more books about it. Yeah, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.480 and Eastwood, I mean that scene is so key because 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:54.160 they're they're all like Bill, Little Bill is kind of 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.640 poopooing the whole biographer thing until he is his biographer, 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.680 and then he's way into it and he's embellishing, like 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:07.000 you said, and adding to the mystifying of these of 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:13.440 himself and people like him. But but Money just will 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.839 Money doesn't care about any of that stuff like that. 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.920 His chance, his entry point is to go right, like 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.880 he has the chance the doors open, to start telling 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.640 his story to this guy, and he just doesn't give 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.560 a ship. He didn't want to, he didn't want to 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.840 kill people anymore. He doesn't want to glorify killing people anymore. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.720 I mean, that's what this whole movie is about, is 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:41.920 about the the guilt that this man feels about the 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.280 horrible things he's done in his past and how he 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:46.880 feels he is a bad guy, and he was a 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:51.400 bad guy. He killed women and children and was a drunk. Yeah. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.160 I think that's sort of late in the film Revelation 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.960 where I think one of the prostitutes says, oh, you're 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.200 the guy. Little Bill said, You're the I who dynamited 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.199 so and so's place and killed women and children. And suddenly, 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.360 as a viewer, you immediately it's suddenly like your worldview 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.160 is rocked because you wanted to think of Eastwood's character 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.800 as this like stoic guy who probably killed for good 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.280 reasons in his past, and yeah, things got a little dirty, 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.400 but he always did maybe not the right thing, but 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.320 the thing that needed to be done. And suddenly you're like, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.640 wait a minute, this guy is not nearly as heroic 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.160 and worth admiration as I might have thought. It makes 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.760 you make a choice, m you know, like, because you 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.400 know something was up, because he's a man clearly haunted 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.560 from his past. They sort of lead you to believe 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:47.280 that it's only because of his wife who had passed away. Um, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.600 but you could tell that there's something more. He's not 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:55.280 drinking anymore. Alcoholism is different back then because annoyed me 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.280 how much Morgan Freeman kept trying to get him to 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.920 drink again, and I was like, stop, you're not supposed 0:13:59.960 --> 0:14:02.319 to do that. Don't enable them, Like I don't think 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.200 enabling was a word back then. Uh, but boy, that 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.200 makes it so powerful when he takes that bottle at 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.240 the end and finally starts drinking. You know. Yeah, so 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.960 I'm very curious that that sort of ending. We've been 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.120 talking about a little bit where he finally shows up 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.680 to the saloon and he basically he's outmanned, out gunned, 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.720 and yet he takes out I don't know, six guys, 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.600 let's say, who knows, maybe more without a scratch on him. Like, 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.600 when you're watching that, what is your reaction to it? 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.480 I was into it because I like a good revenge 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.320 killing in a movie. Uh, little Bill was a bad guy. 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.520 I think they set it up such that you would 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.680 definitely root for that because of the um. The beginning 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.560 was so brutal when they cut that woman up. Uh, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.400 that was a brutal scene to see, and so you 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.160 really want those fucking guys to to get theirs. Um, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.600 but those guys had already gotten There's so interesting, like 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:05.080 he kills the bar, the saloon owner. Uh, in cold blood. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.880 It just for you know, having Morgan Freeman's body displayed 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.480 out in front, which he didn't really have a choice of. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.120 I imagine Little Bill was you know, he's calling all 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.520 the shots in that town. So, I mean that's kind 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.040 of one of the things I like about this movie 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.080 is that there it's not so clear cut and they 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.920 are a little ambiguous with who you should be rooting for. 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.120 But he one of the best parts of that whole 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.400 scene is when he's like, you know, any any any 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.120 man that doesn't want to get shot and just go 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.920 on out in the back and all those fucking guys 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.240 just get the hell out of there, and they have 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.080 a chance to kill him too, and they're just there, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.840 you know, they're scared. Yeah, And it kind of goes 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.480 back to to what Little Bob was saying to to 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.200 bow Champ earlier about how it's not the who who's 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.440 the fastest gun, it's who stays the coolest under pressure. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.320 I think, God, that scene. Can we talk about that scene? Yeah? Absolutely, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.880 that scene. Yeah, when he Little Bob gives him the 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.320 gun basically, and I mean that whole scene is great 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.280 because that's when he sort of reveals that Bob English 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.840 Bob had been stretching the truth. It's a really long 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.520 scene and then he gives him that gun and he's 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.120 just he tells him to cock it and he points 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.920 it right at his chest and all that guy's gotta 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.880 do is squeeze the trigger and he knows he won't, 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.840 and then he tells him the hand of English Bob 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.440 and it's just such a power play, you know, in 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.280 my mind it links up to the Schofield kid character, 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.360 who who has actually never killed anybody, but sees himself 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:39.400 or tells everybody he's this this bad man killer. And ultimately, though, 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.440 like very I think it shows with the boat champ 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.600 taking the gun, it's like very few of us would 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.240 actually have the nerve or have the whatever you call 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.040 it to be able to do that, you know, And 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.000 it takes a certain kind of person to be able 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:59.480 to do that, and even back then, and you know, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.840 I I don't think there's much of a moral judgment 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.800 placed on what type of person that is. Is it 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.240 somebody who like because all the guys we see who 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.160 are able to kill are kind of psychopaths a little bit, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.919 you know, or they have like they're they're not the 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.320 best people. So it's like the ability to kill people, what, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.120 you know, do you lose your soul in the process 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.240 or something like that? You know? Yeah, I mean that's 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.680 again that's sort of the central premise of this movie 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.600 is what does it take to do this? What does 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.679 it do to you? Like, how does it change you 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.520 as a person in this case as a man to 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.520 do it? Ah, I mean, it's one of the classic 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.760 lines in movie history. You know, is is Clint at 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:42.439 that one point when and this is that's what I 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.400 texted you immediately when he said unforgiven, it's a hell 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.760 of a thing killing a man. Take away, you take 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.760 away everything he's gotten, everything he's ever going to have. 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.119 And I think you just see on the kid's face 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.800 like he never even considered what it would feel like 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.480 because he was drawn in by the by Billy the 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.840 Kid and all these stories. You know, he wanted all 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.000 the all the notoriety and stuff until it actually happened, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.920 and then it just wrecked him. Yeah, and the stories 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.639 that somebody like bow Champ probably makes money off of writing, 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.720 you know. And yeah, the performance, So the actor I 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.840 had to look him up, James Wolvett, who plays the 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.120 Schofield kid, I haven't. Yeah, he's great and I love 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.960 that he's so grading and annoying for like most of 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.639 the movie intentionally, and then the performance he gives in 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.720 that scene where he breaks down after killing one of 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.560 the guys, like it's just hard. It's it's a great 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.880 performance and it's just heartbreaking because you see you can 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:42.000 literally see the psyche shift in that scene. And then 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:43.760 you know the moment where he says, you know, I'm 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:45.479 not I'm not picking up a gun again, and I'm 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.560 never killing anyone again. If there's any sort of hope 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.359 to be found in a movie like this, it's the 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.040 fact that somebody like him takes that view and and 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.200 sort of decides to leave this life behind, you know, Yeah, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.320 And you get the feeling that that's gonna hide him 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.760 for the rest of his life, even though that guy 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:07.120 really deserved what he had come and h which leads 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.159 me to another one of my favorite lines about you know, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.960 the guy kind of deserving It is when little Bill 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.439 is dying on the floor of the saloon and he 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.480 says that, you know, I don't deserve to die like this, 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.000 and uh, Money just says deserves got nothing to do 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.360 with it. This is such a good line, And that's 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.239 a close as close as this movie comes to, like 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.680 a not pithy, but just sort of because he plays 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.600 it so straight. You know, there are a lot of 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.320 times this would have been a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.919 or something is the retired old guy would have just 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.120 been chock full of corny lines. But that's as close 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.680 as it comes. And I thought it was a good line. Yeah, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.320 and and it's sort of a metal line, right. It's 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.160 like we like to think of our our Westerns, especially 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.919 having clear cut good guys and bad guys, and the 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.680 bad guys deserve what's coming to them, and Eastwood just says, 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.800 you know, deserves, got nothing to do with it. It's 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:08.560 just a matter of doing it, you know. Yeah, we 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.600 should talk a little bit about just how beautiful of 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.879 a film this is. Those gorgeous shots at dusk and dawn, 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.280 the silhouette of he and uh ned when they're riding 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.040 those horses at sunset, it's just he pulls out all 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.399 the stops of kind of the beautiful old Western. Um 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.199 like that. That's what you want to see when you 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.560 see a movie like this, if you want to see 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.000 horses silhouetted against a red setting sun, shout out to 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.679 let's see. The DP was Jack Green who uh I 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.520 looked him up. He's he's deep. Had a lot of 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.480 Eastwood stuff, especially his stuff in the nineties. But yeah, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.520 beautiful film. Um. I love the opening and closing shots 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.200 of the sun setting with the tree and Eastwood at 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.600 the the grave of his wife. Yeah, it's it's a 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.920 very sort of classical looking frame like something you'd see 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.000 in a movie from the fifties or something, and um, 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.639 I had to look it up. They shot it mostly 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.200 in Alberta, Canada, which is where a lot of westerns 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.200 are shot, like Days of Heaven was shot there. I think, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.399 Oh yeah, planes, big open planes. Um, I will say that. Uh. 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.520 A fun tidbit is that they say William Money lives 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.560 in and it's mentioned he lives in Hodgman County, Kansas, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.200 which is literally two counties away from where I grew 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.240 up in no Way. Yeah, yeah, it's a real county. Um. 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.000 Just a fun little thing. But yeah, they didn't shoot 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.119 it in Kansas as far as I can tell. You 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.080 think they came all the way from Kansas just to 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.600 fuck us. That was a great line, um, I was. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.440 It was a little like disconcerting and and really hammers 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:47.360 home like how sexual assault his uh sometimes not even 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.680 changed that much. Like the the excuse that Sheriff Bill 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:57.080 uses after the assault is like these are pretty good guys, 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.439 like you know, what's what good is it gonna do 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.880 to go after for them than and ruin their lives? 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:04.600 And I heard that. I was just like, God, do 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.800 you hear that same ship today? When it's like, you 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:12.280 know that I can't remember was that the duke student 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.639 from the from the Good Family behind the dumpster And 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.800 you hear that same thing trotted out, like well, why 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.080 ruin his life now for this one mistake? And it's 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.439