1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Hello, Wicked Words listeners, It's me Kate Winkler Dawson. I 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: want to tell you about my podcast, Buried Bones on 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Exactly Right. It's a historical true crime podcast that I 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: co host with the brilliant Paul Holes. As a journalist, 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I've spent the last twenty five years writing about true crime, 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: and as a retired cold case investigator, Paul has worked 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: on some of America's most complicated cases and solve them together. 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Using our individual expertise. We examine historical true crime cases 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: through a twenty first century lens. Buried Bones is a 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: study of the criminal mind and a reflection of just 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: how far we've come. Be sure and follow Buried Bones 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: New episodes every Wednesday. This story contains adult content and language, 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: along with references to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: This year, mark the fifty at the anniversary of the 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: Freeway Fanom killings. At least when they concluded, they went 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,279 Speaker 2: on for twenty nine months twenty four to twenty nine months, 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: depending on where you call the end of the last victim. 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 2: We had six to seven victims, all young black women, 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: all sexually assaulted. What really stood out for me when 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: we were looking at this project was this was an 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: unsolved serial killing crime in the nation's capital. 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: true crime podcast Tenfold More Wicked, as well as the 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: co host of the new show Buried Bones, both on 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Exactly Right. I've traveled around the world interviewing people for 28 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: the show. I've interviewed some people in person and some 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: from my home studio over zoom, and they are all 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: excellent writers. They've had so many great true crime stories 31 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: and now we want to tell you those stories with 32 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: details that have never been published. Tenfold More Wicked presents 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Wicked Words is about the choices that writers make, good 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: and bad. It's a deep dive into the stories behind 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: the stories. Author Blaine Pardo has been with us before 36 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: when he talked to me about the Colonial Parkway Killer 37 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: last season. Now he's back along with his daughter Victoria Hester, 38 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: to talk about their book Tantamount, another story about a 39 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: serial killer who has escaped investigators for decades. 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: We're talking nineteen seventy one nineteen seventy two. We're dealing 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: with a time period where the phrase serial killer didn't exist. 42 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: You're dealing with a time period of great turmoil in 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: our nation's capital via the Vietnam War protests that were 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 2: going on at the time, civil rights events that were 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: still unfolding. It was only a few years since Martin 46 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: Luther King's death and the riots that had torn apart 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: the city. It was a great deal of mistrust between 48 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: the black community and the police department. Two thirds of 49 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: the city was black, but eighty percent of the police 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: department was white, and so there was a lot of 51 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: distrust coming out of the riots with the police force 52 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: and how they were performing. And in many respects, this 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: case has been mishandled. 54 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: Okay, let's set the world a little bit. Is this 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: an area where the victim comes from. 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: This is inner city. It's an urban area. You've got 57 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: to remember in the nineteen seventies, even an urban area, 58 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 2: there was a great sense of community. Parents knew who 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: the kids were. There wasn't a big fear about having 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: your kids go outside and play, et cetera. This killer 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: was able to strike in these communities where people were 62 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: out and this was very visible. The first victim was 63 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: Carol Denise Sphinx, since she was thirteen years old. She 64 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: disappeared on April twenty fifth, nineteen seventy one, and she 65 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: wasn't found until April thirtieth. She went out with five 66 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: to purchase five TV dinners, and she had been sent 67 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: to the store by her older sister. She went to 68 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: a seven to eleven and never made it back. Her 69 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: killer kidnapped her. Her body was dumped right at the 70 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: edge of the grounds of Saint Elizabeth's Hospital, which was 71 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: a large mental hospital facility in Washington, DC area, right 72 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: on I two ninety five. What was really interesting was 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: in her stomach. During the autopsy, they found that she 74 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: had citrus fruit oranges I believe in her stomach that 75 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: were not fully digested. So her killer had not only 76 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: kidnapped her, but had held her hostage for at least 77 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: three days before he killed her. She had been strangled 78 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: and had been molested. There were fingertail impressions on her neck. 79 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: She had been repeatedly sodomized. She was very much a 80 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: shy girl, and most of the people that knew her 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: said she would never get in a car with a stranger. 82 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: But this was on primarily in daylight hours. This wasn't 83 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: a late night thing. The families tended to be the 84 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: primary people that were raising the flag on this. They 85 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: were very upset about it, and there's, of course this 86 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: general feeling that the police really weren't paying that much 87 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: attention to it. It just wasn't seen as a big deal, 88 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: and the families were deeply upset about it. She was 89 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: a thirteen year old girl in the nineteen seventies, and 90 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: that really is one of the things that kind of 91 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: resonates with you too. This person whoever targeted her and 92 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: kidnapped her and held her hostage and then attacked her 93 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: and killed her, did so in such a manner that 94 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: he was targeting literally young girls. 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: Leaving her body in front of a didn't you say 96 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: it was a mental health facility. 97 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: It's on IWO ninety five, so it's a highway that 98 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: comes through the city, but it was borderlined with the 99 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: mental facility at Saint Elizabeths. Saint Elizabeth, I think, does 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: play a key part, and the geographic profile of this 101 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: really centers on Saint Elizabeths. That the killer did have 102 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: an attachment there. The other part of this that I 103 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: think is more disturbing is this isn't a highway, so 104 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: it's a very busy highway in the middle of the 105 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 2: nation's capital. This person pulled over, got out, dragged a 106 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: body out of the car, not a small distance either, 107 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: dragged the person ten to twenty feet off of the 108 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: highway to deposit the body. Now, at any point in time, 109 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: this person could have been seen. People are driving on 110 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: a highway at all hours, day and night. Headlights could 111 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: have hit you. Yeah, the brazenness of dropping this body 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: off on a grassy hillside next to a mental health facility, 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: it's almost like flipping off the police. 114 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: What about the next victim. You've got Carol Spanks, who's thirteen, 115 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: and she has been found at the end of April 116 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. 117 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: Darlina Denise Johnson, and she is sixteen years old, so 118 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: she's a little bit older. She just appears on July eighth, 119 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one. She's found July nineteenth, so the killer 120 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: had gone back. Her body was found around twenty five 121 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: feet from where the first victim was found. You also 122 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: noticed that they both have the same middle name. Both 123 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: have denisus a middle name, which is kind of becomes 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: a factor with some other things. Her body had been 125 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: spotted almost the day after she had been killed, and 126 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: people were calling it into the police. The police was 127 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: driving by but not getting on of the vehicle to 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: even look. 129 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: That's terrible. 130 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: So literally her body laid out there on the grassy hillside. 131 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: And it was finally someone who reached out, who was 132 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: a neighbor of a police officer and said, you know, 133 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: I drove by a dead body on nine two ninety 134 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: five and it's been there for days. And it's interesting too. 135 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: The first victim, her shoes were not found. She's now 136 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: found with shoes, and Darlinia Johnson's not found with shoes. 137 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: We actually got to see the autopsy photo for Darlinia Johnson, 138 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: and I mean she literally, the only way to describe 139 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: it is she looked mummified. Because the police didn't get 140 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: there soon enough, they really missed any opportunities to gather 141 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: any trace evidence. They were even unable to determine her 142 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: actual cause of death. 143 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: Wow. Could they look at stomach contents like they did 144 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: for Carol. 145 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: No, it was so badly decayed at that point in time. 146 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: Now what's interesting is she was kidnapped in the morning hours. 147 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: She was on her way to the Oxen Hill Recreation 148 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: Center about ten thirty in the morning. She was supposed 149 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: to arrive there, never arrived. Again, we're talking about somebody 150 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: who's not kidnapped or apprehended at nighttime hours. Yeah, where 151 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: you commonly kind of think of for most serial killers. 152 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 2: But this is an attack that's during the day, and 153 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: we have no idea if he held her a hostage 154 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 2: for several days either. We just don't know. 155 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: So were they able to find any connection between Carol 156 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: and Arlinia. 157 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: They were able to find on the first victim, they 158 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: found a rayon fiber and it was a green to 159 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: yellow rayon fiber that was found on the first victim. Unfortunately, 160 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: no trace evidence was found on Darlina Johnson. She had 161 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: been literally laying outside for so long that there was 162 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: no trace evidence. But those green rayon fibers will appear 163 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: in almost all of the other victims, with the exception 164 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: of one, which is kind of up for debate still. 165 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: So we have now officially two victims. We have Carol 166 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: and we have Darlena. So who is next? 167 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: Okay, next one is Brenda Faykrocket. Brenda's ten years old. 168 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 2: She goes missing on July twenty seventh, nineteen seventy one. 169 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: She was on her way to the grocery store to 170 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: pick up some typing paper and some dog food. Her 171 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: mother thought when she sent her out that her brothers 172 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: and sisters were going with her. When she found out 173 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: she was on her own, she went out to go 174 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: get her and never found her. Now, they did find 175 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 2: a bag with some of those articles that she had 176 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: been sent by on the ground near the store, but 177 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: they didn't find her. So they actually have a pretty 178 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 2: good idea where she was abducted from, which was very public. 179 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: It was right on the street. She's a ten year 180 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: old girl and she has taken away. We don't know where. 181 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: But what really sets us one up this different is 182 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 2: she made three phone calls to home, well from the 183 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: killer's home. 184 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: Victoria, let's talk about those phone calls. You think that 185 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: Brenda Fay said to the killer, that looks like my 186 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: mom's car. 187 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: So I think the killer got spooked and thought maybe 188 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: mom spotted her in his vehicle, so he had her 189 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: call and make sure she didn't speak to her mother. 190 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: She spoke to her mother's boyfriend who tried to keep 191 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: her on the phone when she suddenly hung up. The 192 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: second time she calls back, you can hear footsteps in 193 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: the background, like somebody's probably listening to her every word. 194 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: And she said that she was in Virginia with a 195 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: white man. Now we know that the killer was probably 196 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: standing right over her shoulder, so any information that she 197 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: would have given would probably be the opposite of what 198 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 3: was correct. And again that conversation ended very abruptly and 199 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 3: hung up. 200 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: What are the intervals, the time intervals between each of 201 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: these phone calls. 202 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: Just a few minutes. That's the last time that anyone 203 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: spoke to her. 204 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: I wonder if a series of phone calls like that 205 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: would have given the mother hope that maybe at least 206 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: she was alive and maybe there was still time to 207 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: find her. That must have been just pure torture for 208 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: the mom. 209 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: It was a cruel thing for this killer to do. 210 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: But I think he was scared that he was going 211 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: to get caught. That's one of the things that sucks 212 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:44,239 Speaker 2: you in with this is this killer just didn't behave normally, 213 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: and in Brinifet's case, he targeted a ten year old. 214 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this just to. 215 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: Me, It never really made sense. There are a few 216 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: things though, that you could pick up with this. First 217 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: of all, you know, he had to have a house 218 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: where he could have gotten her into the house without 219 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: being seen, because otherwise neighbors would have seen her. 220 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: Maybe a driveway that goes all the way to the 221 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: back yep. 222 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: And we also know he held the first victim hostage, 223 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: so he had to have a place where you could 224 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: contain someone and hold them prisoner, and they wouldn't if 225 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: they've screamed and hollered, no one would hear. We also 226 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: know we had wooden floors because the gentleman who took 227 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: the call said, I distinctly heard footsteps on a wooden floor. Well, 228 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: so you grab every little nugget of evidence you can 229 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 2: from these things and try to say, what where can 230 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: this take us? 231 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: So we are now have a thirteen year old Carol 232 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: who has died, We have a sixteen year old Darlina 233 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: who has died, And now we have ten year old 234 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: Brenda Fay who has died. How far a part of 235 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: these young women living from each other? 236 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: BRender fake Crockett's in a different section of Washington, d C. 237 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: Washington's a big town, but I think it's not as 238 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: massive as like New York for Chicago in terms of 239 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: its scope. The first two victims were from almost the 240 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 2: same namehood. She's from a different part of Washington, DC, 241 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: closer to the White House area. Her father owned a 242 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: barbershop I believe up in that area, if I remember correctly. 243 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: So there's a little bit of a spread, but you 244 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 2: got to bear in mind what we're talking about is 245 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: two miles, okay, three miles. She was a little bit 246 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: further away than the previous victims, and she was also 247 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: missing her shoes as well. So this is the third 248 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: victim with missing shoes. 249 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: And these lime green fibers are found on almost all 250 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: of the victims. 251 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: The fibers resemble something that would come from a bath mat. 252 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: Especially the color and the texture of the fiber. It 253 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 3: stands out it's like lime green. 254 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: And each one of these girls so far has had this. 255 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 2: No Darlena, we don't get any trace evidence from her, 256 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: but all of them have them, and they have them 257 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 2: been weird places. The rayon fibers are found inside bras, 258 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: inside of panteats, inside of socks, so the indication is 259 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: they're picked up from an external source when the clothing 260 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: is all removed, So the killer isn't just having them 261 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: take off their clothes enough to have his sexual gratification 262 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: with him. He's having them stripped completely. And in the 263 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: case of Brendan Krockett, we talked with one of the 264 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 2: investigators and she said it was really interesting because she 265 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: had been playing jump rope barefoot outside during the day 266 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: and it put her shoes on to go to the star. 267 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: When they looked at her body, her feet were clean. 268 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: The investigator who told us this had been working the 269 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: case for decades, and she said, we've seen that these 270 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: kids were all stripped completely down. Why would a killer, 271 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: if you're going to rape a young girl, why would 272 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: you make her take her socks off? The thought is 273 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: maybe what this killer's doing is stripping them down and 274 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: killing them in the bathtub, because some of them showed 275 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: signs that their underwear was put on backwards or inside out, 276 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: so things are being put back on incorrectly and they're clean. 277 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: So is the killer putting them in the bathtub and 278 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: then killing them and then redressing them and then dumping 279 00:14:59,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: the bodies. 280 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: So this is in the early nineteen seventies. DNA analysis 281 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: hasn't even started yet, So would a killer really be 282 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: concerned about washing away all of that physical evidence. I mean, 283 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: it's strangulation, it's not blood. 284 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: Don't know, there's something weird there. It also could be 285 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: these putting them in the bathtub simply to have control 286 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: over them. 287 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: So Brenda Fay was strangled, I'm assuming yes. 288 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: She was, and she was dumped over on Kenilworth Avenue 289 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: at Route fifty, which isn't far from I ninety five, 290 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: and it's a busy intersection. It is one of the 291 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: busier intersections in the area. So she was found at 292 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: five point fifty the next morning, so he didn't keep 293 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: her around after making the phone calls. The belief is 294 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: he probably killed her almost right after that, based on 295 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: the temperature of the body when they recovered her. 296 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: And I assume that they've collected evidence off of all 297 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: of these bodies and stored it is that right collected? 298 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: Yes, stored. Not until recently, sometime in the eighties, Washington 299 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: Metropolitan Police Department had most of the evidence that they 300 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: had in their possession has been destroyed. They threw it 301 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: out quite literally, which is added to the complexities of 302 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: this case. But there is some rays of hope because 303 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: the Metropolitan Police didn't just handle this. These cases tended 304 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: to be centered on Washington, d C. Which kind of 305 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: put it in the Metropolitan Police department. But as you're 306 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: going to see, multiple jurisdictions start kicking in here pretty. 307 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: Soon, so he was sort of ramping up. If we're 308 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: thinking that, you go from April with Carol to July 309 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: with Darlena, and then July again with Brenda Fay. 310 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, the next one is October one, So I think 311 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: he may have been a little bit scared again by 312 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: what he experienced and how close he may have come 313 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: to being caught, So he may have been more selective 314 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: of the victim that he targeted. But the next one 315 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: was Nino Moisha Yates, who's twelve years old. She's a 316 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: seventh grader kid. She was out going this safe way 317 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: to purchase a bag of sugar. It was eight forty 318 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: five pm. Bear in mind, you know it's still liked out. 319 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: They find the bag again on the street, so whoever 320 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: it was got her in. She's found by a hitchhiker. 321 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: Her body was still warm when it was found, and 322 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 2: it was found three hours after she disappeared. So and 323 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: it was only five hours away, Oh my god, which 324 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 2: really is kind of useful because it means the killer 325 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: isn't someone who lives in Virginia would had taken too 326 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: long to drive all the way to Virginia. Kill your victim, 327 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: drive all the way back, deposit the body you're dealing 328 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: with three hours here. Whoever it is, it's someone local 329 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 2: to the DC area. She's got fingermail marks on her neck. 330 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 2: She had been raped. It was terrible. And again we've 331 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: got the telltale rayon fibers that have made an appearance 332 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: on her. 333 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm assuming all of the families are just 334 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: in misery. Do we have DC coming in or the 335 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: state police? Who's coming in? 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. Washington, d C. Has right now twelve 337 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: different police agencies that operate with jurisdiction. And there you 338 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: have Capitol Police, you have Secret Service, You've got FBI 339 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: Park Police. All these entities exist within the District of 340 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: Columbia on its own, which just adds to a lot 341 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: of jurisdictional problems. At this point, the families are starting 342 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: to get together. They're appearing in the newspaper, they're appearing 343 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: on radio shows, et cetera. Pleading for someone to come forward. 344 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: Someone had to have seen these things happen. They happened 345 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: on very well traveled streets. They happened for the most part, 346 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: this was one of the later ones that took place 347 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: because it was eight forty five in the evening, But 348 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: for the most part these were done in broad daylight, 349 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: so someone had to have seen what happened. And it 350 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 2: also means that these girls didn't scream out yeah, because 351 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: someone would have heard them. 352 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: If they're lured, wouldn't they bring the bags into the car. 353 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: They wouldn't drop them where they were where sugar spilling 354 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: on the street, So you know, you would come in 355 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: and you would bring your bag, and you would sit 356 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: down and talk to the person and they would drive off. 357 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: It just seems so odd. 358 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: The focus was on young girls at this time, and 359 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: as you'll see with one of these victims with the 360 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: note that was left. I always have wondered if there 361 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: were boys that were also being attacked and murdered that 362 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 2: we don't know about. 363 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 3: Now. 364 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: I've gone through the police records from the time and 365 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: I didn't find any. But you wonder how many of 366 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: those things went unreported or misreported or signed to the 367 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 2: wrong person. 368 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: Is there a turning point with the next victim. 369 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: Her name is Brenda Denise Woodard. 370 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: Another Brenda, Okay, Anna Denise. 371 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 2: Another Brenda, and another Denise. She's eighteen years old. She 372 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: is abducted and killed on November fifteenth, nineteen seventy one. 373 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: Out of all the kids she had being older. She 374 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: had some trouble with her parents. She had moved out 375 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: from her parents. She had become obsessed with a young 376 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: boy to the point where at one point she ended 377 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: up in the hospital because she had just thrown a 378 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: tantrum over him. She was living in the same building 379 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: as her parents, but not with her parents. At the 380 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: time of this, she was finally kind of getting things 381 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: back in order with her life. She was attending night 382 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: school and at nine five in the evening, her and 383 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: a friend went to a local restaurant, Ben's Chili Bowl. 384 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: They ate she was supposed to come back and be 385 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: home by eleven thirty and call her mother. They checked 386 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: she hadn't come home, so we know for sure something happened. 387 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: She was found on the Baltimore Washington Parkway, kind of 388 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 2: on a curved street, and had been dumped there. What's 389 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: different about her. She does have the same rayond fibers, 390 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: but she had died from a stab wound to her chest. 391 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: She had six total wounds. She had a broken bone 392 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: in her neck, the one that breaks when you are strangled. 393 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: But this is someone who actually fought back. 394 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it sounds like it was a big fight. 395 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: This was something where the killer really lost control of 396 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: the situation. And the reason for that, I think is 397 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 2: going to be pretty evident. What's really interesting as well, 398 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: she wore a wig. She was found laying kind of 399 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 2: her arms up. She hadn't looked dead and her body 400 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 2: was still warm when she had been found by a 401 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 2: Chevrolet police officer. Now, what's really different about her Her 402 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: books are missing, so the killer kept her books. Her 403 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: wig is literally out on an island and turning island 404 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: in the street, you know, one of those little grassy areas. 405 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: And what's really different was she was found with a 406 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: note in her own handwriting that had been dictated or 407 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: pre written by the killer to the authorities. 408 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: Okay, what does this note say? That's very creepy. 409 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: It says this is tantamount to my insensitivity which is 410 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: misspelled to people, especially women. I will admit the others 411 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: when you catch me if you can. And it signed 412 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 2: freeway Phantom, but free is hyphenated with way, so it's 413 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: free hyphen way phantom. So it's written in her handwriting, 414 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean that she was dictated to it. 415 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 2: The word tantamount, for example, is not a word that's 416 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: often used. It's just not in people's vocabulary, et cetera. 417 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: The thought that the authorities had is that he had 418 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 2: written the note in advance and had her copy it, 419 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: and he had cut the page out of the book. 420 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 2: So it was one of those books where you spiral 421 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: bound where you pull the page out and it rip out. Yeah, 422 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: he had cut the page out of there, so apparently 423 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: just so that it wouldn't be easy to match up 424 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: to the books should the police ever get it. But 425 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: he had her write that note. And I've always been 426 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: stunned by that concept that someone would have to sit 427 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: there and write a note, because at this point, you 428 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: know who the freeway phantom is. Yeah, it's been in 429 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: the news. That phrase was coined by the media, So 430 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,719 Speaker 2: you're singer writing that if you're eighteen years old. And 431 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: her mother told her, you'll be careful being out at 432 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 2: night because of the freeway. Fanom here you are writing 433 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 2: this note, you know you're going to die. And she 434 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: put up a hell of a fight to the point 435 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: where he had to stabber Wow and killer any dumped 436 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 2: her body on this curved exit ramp. 437 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: He's brazen enough to either snatch her lore young girls 438 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: and young women off the street in a predominantly black area, 439 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: but he's insecure enough to make one of the victims 440 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: call her mother to just double check and make sure 441 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: that he hadn't been spotted. And he's cleaning them for 442 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: some reason, we think because there's no water in the lungs, right, 443 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: there's no in this strangula. Yeah, he's not drowning him. Okay, 444 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: So this is a very complex person that we're talking about, obviously. 445 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about somebody who's literally trying to reach 446 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: out to the police and taught them with this note. 447 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: There's no other way to do it. And I've always 448 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: wondered with a note because it says I have an 449 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: insensitivity to people, especially women. I will admit the others 450 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: when you catch me. That's where I wondered. Was he 451 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: also killing young boys too, because he's saying I'm insensitive 452 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 2: to people in general, especially women. To me, it's always 453 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: been in the back of my mind of has he 454 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: been killing other people and we just don't have the 455 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: links to that at this point. And there's a part 456 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: of him that's very much hey, i'll tell you you 457 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: you catch me, I'll tell you all about it. That's 458 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: just such an arrogant aspect of his personality that it 459 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 2: is creepy on many levels. 460 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: Well, we have more than one hundred years full of 461 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: these want to be Jack the rippers who are haunting 462 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: police with these notes. So who are we looking at next? 463 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 2: We're at six of the last ones that had fiber 464 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: evidence or can be directly tied to the Freeway fanom, 465 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: which is Diane Denise William. Wow, it spelled Denise dnnis. 466 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: But it's we'll take it. I mean, that's weird. 467 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, seventeen years old. Now there's a huge time gap here. 468 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 2: He doesn't go for her until September fifth, nineteen seventy two. 469 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 470 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: I think it was the fact that his previous victim 471 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: resisted and he had to staber. He lost control. So 472 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: now he's being very selective. 473 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: Wouldn't the counter to that be that he could figure 474 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: out a way to gain more control. Look at the 475 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: Colonial Parkway, who was taking couples? One person taking couples. 476 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: I bet this guy could go back to ten year old's, 477 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, and figure out control. We know a lot 478 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: about serial killers in that they stopped killing. It take 479 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: very long gaps many times because they just have life changes. 480 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: They have kids, they have a family. They can't get away. 481 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: I buy your theory, but I also think there could 482 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: be other things happening too. 483 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: Sure, she was supposed to be riding a bus home. 484 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 2: There's a kind of disputed as to which stop she 485 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 2: got off at. The stop that the bus driver swears 486 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: up and down she got off at is one prior 487 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: to where she should have gotten off to go home, 488 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: So it's always been this kind of It makes no 489 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: sense why she would get off at that stop and 490 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: not ride it for the two blocks to get off 491 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: where she should have gotten off. But she was kidnapped 492 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: and killed and found literally hours later. She had died 493 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: from manual strangulation. She had some bruising on her rib, 494 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: some abrasions on her left elbow, fingernail marks on her neck. 495 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 2: They estimate that she had been dead for nine to 496 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 2: twenty hours. Prior to the body being discovered. The prior 497 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 2: case with Brenda Woodard, her mother got onto the bus 498 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: stop and actually was within view of where the body 499 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 2: was found. 500 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: Wow. 501 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: This one. Her father worked at Marton Prison and actually 502 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: drove past on his way home where she was found. 503 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: So there's always been this kind of mystique of did 504 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: the killer really know these families and was he deliberately 505 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 2: do this in some way? But no one's ever been 506 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: able to find a connection to these families. They didn't 507 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: know each other. 508 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: Wow. 509 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: And she was the last quote unquote if you go 510 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 2: to the Metropolitan Police site, look at the wanted poster 511 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: and she's the last victim that is officially tagged to 512 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: the Freeway fan. Now, the FBI we pulled their ViCAP 513 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: reports with a fire request. VISCAP is a system where 514 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 2: they track killers, and we asked them, just send us 515 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: everything you have on the Freeway phanom victims. They actually 516 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: sent along an additional person. 517 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: Oh well, Diana's seventeen, you said, right, Yes, so he 518 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: took this year off, but he's stuck with that age 519 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: group seventeen eighteen, and he managed to control her. Just 520 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: find see. That's why I really think something happened to 521 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: him over that year, he had a life event of something. 522 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: You may be right, we don't know. 523 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: Why not go back to a ten year old who's 524 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: not going to put up any kind of a fight 525 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: and who could be manipulated. Yeah, okay, I won't go 526 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: down that road. 527 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to the rabbit holes. 528 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Tell me about the extra victim that the FBI came 529 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: up with. 530 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 2: Well, they claim on November sixteenth, nineteen seventy two, Tiera 531 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: Ian Bryant, who was eighteen years old. She was a 532 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 2: young mother. She was having some stomach problems. Her mother 533 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: took her to the local hospital. She was supposed to 534 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 2: take the bus home, but decided to walk. She literally 535 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 2: walked by a police station. So this is how public 536 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 2: her kidnapping was. We know she stopped at a dunkin 537 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: Donuts on the way home. She was found in the 538 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 2: Anacostia River about two hundred yards from her house. So 539 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: again we have water kind of coming into play here, 540 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: and she had been strangled. There was no fiber evidence 541 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: to link her to these cases, but her shoes were 542 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: found on the embankment upstream, so they know pretty much 543 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: where she went. Was thrown into the river, but again, 544 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: water seemed to play a role with this. I don't 545 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: know why the FBI one hundred percent linked her to 546 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,239 Speaker 2: these cases, but she remains unsolved at this time. Her 547 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: own and the authorities even in Maryland don't connect her 548 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 2: to this, but the FBI did. And as much as 549 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: there are problems at times with what the FBI does 550 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: and how they do their investigating, I could sit and 551 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 2: it pick all day. To me, there's some significance to that. 552 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: Okay. So there were fibers on Diane also, yes, a 553 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: year later, Yeah, okay. 554 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: And the police have never been able to figure out 555 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: what the actual source of those fibers were. They've never 556 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: been able to pin it down. They looked at car trunks, 557 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: they looked at car carpeting, they looked at regular commercial company. 558 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 2: We've never been able to find what those sources were. 559 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: Wow, Okay. So Tiera Anne is in November of nineteen 560 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: seventy two. If she is the final victim, then nothing 561 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: after that. It just stops. 562 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: The freeway phantom disappears. Now there's another killing spree in 563 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties, the Suitland murders, which has remained unsolved, 564 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 2: which wasn't that far geographically away from where all this 565 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: took place. It's literally just across the border between DC 566 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: and Maryland where the bodies were dumped. But there's no 567 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: nothing that we've ever had that's been able to connect 568 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: the Suitland slayings to this as well. And that would 569 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: also then be a ten year cooling off period. 570 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: It's a long time. 571 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's undoable, but it would make 572 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: it yet another rarity in the annals of serial killing. 573 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: So we literally lose the Freeway Phantom. There is in 574 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: the middle of all this, there is a lead that 575 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 2: comes forward. There's a gang called the Green Vega Gang. 576 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: They drive a Green Vega and they are a group 577 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 2: of black men who are serial rapists and they happen 578 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 2: to be operating in the exact same neighborhoods as the 579 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: Freeway fanom. These members are caught and one of them 580 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: offers to confess that they were responsible for the Freeway 581 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: Phantom killings if he can get conjugal visits with his 582 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: girlfriend and other favors, and early a task forces formed. 583 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 2: They start going through all of these crimes with this person. 584 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: They're driving around town saying okay, I'll show us where 585 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: this happened, show us where that happened. And it turns 586 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 2: out everything he knew was basically in the newspapers and 587 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: the way he described where they picked up victims, they 588 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: weren't consistent enough, so he knew nothing about the fiber evidence, 589 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 2: so there was nothing that would connect them to the 590 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: actual physical evidence that was found on all but one 591 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: of the victims. So this goes on for some time, 592 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: and he finally recants once he realizes that this isn't 593 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: going to work out for him quite the way he thought. 594 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: He recants completely, but two other members of the gang 595 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 2: also confessed that, oh, yeah, we were responsible for it. 596 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: They were trying to cut their own deals and their 597 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: stories didn't match his, nor did they match any of 598 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: the physical evidence. The Green Vega Gang ate up two 599 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 2: years of investigative time. The FBI was involved, all the 600 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: agencies were. They did this in depth investigation and it 601 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: was a bust. And unfortunately, in the annals of police history, 602 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: there are still people in the Metropolitan Police Force that go, 603 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: well that we already know who did It's Green Baga Gang. 604 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: They did it, and it's no, that was all disproven. 605 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: So what is the ending of this? Have you kind 606 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: of come up with your own conclusions on some viable 607 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: suspects here. 608 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: So Robert Elwood Askins would have been old in his 609 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: fifties during this time period, which makes it a little 610 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: bit older for most serial killers. They did a geographic 611 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: profile James Trenham did with the police department in two 612 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: thousand and six, and it showed the epicenter of not 613 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 2: only where the victims lived, but where they were found. 614 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 2: Looked at road patterns, looked at where the bodies were dumped, 615 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: where they were abducted from. All of that factors. In 616 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: the epicenter of this is seen Elizabeth's Hospital. So, whoever 617 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: the killer was, chances are pretty good with geographic profiling 618 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: that this person had a connection to that hospital. Now 619 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: it could be the patient, could be that he had 620 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: a relative that was there, could be he was a doctor. 621 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: There could have been any number of things. Robert Elwood 622 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,239 Speaker 2: Askins had a real Connectionary spent thirty years of his 623 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: life in Saint elizabeths In his youth, he caught u 624 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: sexually transmitted disease. He obviously had an issue with sex 625 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: workers and proceeded to try to poison four of them, 626 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: one of which he killed he was a chemistry student, 627 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: so he used poisoned liquor to do that. Was tried 628 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: and convicted, then released several years later on a technicality 629 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: for that. He attacked two other women who were sex 630 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 2: workers or alleged sex workers. You know, there's no way 631 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: to validate that one way or the other, stabbing both 632 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: of them. One lived, one did not. So he's locked 633 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: away in Saint elizabeths for thirty years of his life. Wow, 634 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: he was extremely unstable when he was arrested the first 635 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: time he had to be restrained to a bead. He 636 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 2: was so explosively out of control. Askins was released again. 637 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 2: It was one of those things where they were like, 638 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: g hasn't shown any symptoms in a long time. He 639 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: served his time, let's put him back on the street, 640 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: and in doing so, Askins seems to settle in to 641 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,479 Speaker 2: life just as normal. However, in nineteen seventy eight, he 642 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: kidnapped a woman, took her to his house, tried to 643 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: bathe her, sexually assaulted her. She got away and had 644 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: a very difficult time convincing police that this had happened. 645 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 2: He kidnapped shortly thereafter another woman took her to his 646 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 2: house bathed her, sexually assaulted her. He had her write 647 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: a note. 648 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm starting to buy your theory here. 649 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 2: Okay, well it'll get a little bit better too, because 650 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: I had to do some digging on this. But had 651 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: her write a note explaining how she had gotten injured 652 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 2: and it was really all her fault. He let her go. 653 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 2: She brought police back and they arrested Askins again. Now, 654 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: Askins went to prison for those two abductions and assaults. 655 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 2: And these women were not, by the way, applying any 656 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 2: trade in the sex industry at all. They were just 657 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: women that were going home. He ended up going to 658 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 2: jail for the rest of his life and died there. Now, 659 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: what's really interesting the note is what triggered the authorities 660 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 2: to take a really good look at Askins. There were 661 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 2: only in the annals of Washington DC crimes, there were 662 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: only three times that notes were left with victims. One 663 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 2: was our Freeway fan with Brentwoodard. The other was a 664 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: killing that took place at the State Department and someone 665 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: left a racially entoned note on the victim's body, trying 666 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 2: to throw police off in their investigation. That person was 667 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: caught and they could prove he had no legs to 668 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: the freeway fan. The only other one was Robert Askins, 669 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: and he had a cooling off period from the Freeway 670 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: Phantom nineteen seventy two in nineteen seventy eight. There's a 671 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 2: gap there. Plausible. Yeah, here's the other twist. When police 672 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: got a warrant and tore apart his house, they never 673 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: found the source of degree rayon fibers, did not find 674 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 2: them in person. Whatever the source was could have been 675 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 2: removed years before. What they did find was a court 676 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 2: document on one of Askin's appeals. The judge used the 677 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 2: word tantamount, oh boy, And when they started talking to 678 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 2: his co workers, what they found was this was a 679 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 2: word that he used. It was part of his lexicon. 680 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: Now again, if you start asking people, did she ever 681 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: use the word abrasion, people may say, oh, yeah, you 682 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 2: don't know if you're planning that seed when you ask 683 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: that question to get the response you want. But the 684 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 2: fact that he actually had that document in his possession 685 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: and it was something personal, It was one of his 686 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: court appeals, and it was the judge's ruling was part 687 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 2: of this, and all the other factors that he had 688 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 2: this intimate tie to seen Elizabeth's hospitals where he lived. Yeah, 689 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: that he worked in these neighborhoods. The way he abducted 690 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: his last two victims was by impersonating a police officer. 691 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 2: He had a fake badge. He drove a late model 692 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 2: green car, so he looked like he was driving a 693 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: police vehicle. 694 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: Was he black, Yes, he was, okay, someone in a neighborhood, 695 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: someone who people might have recognized off and on. 696 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 2: Maybe, or someone who could easily pretend to be a 697 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 2: police officer. He had been a police informant. Our research 698 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 2: showed he had done police informing work in the nineteen thirties. 699 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: So you wonder did that give him enough moxie to 700 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 2: be able to kind of impersonate a police officer. Was 701 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,959 Speaker 2: he aware of police techniques? Maybe that's why he bade 702 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 2: the victims. He lived in a house there was in 703 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 2: a row of houses. It had access to the backyard, 704 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: and it did have a basement. I wasn't able to 705 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 2: ever come up with a plausible enough reason to knock 706 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 2: on the door where I could convince the owner to 707 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 2: let us go downstairs and look. So I don't know 708 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 2: how secured that basement was. I'd love to go down 709 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 2: there with Lumanol just because we know a stabbed a 710 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: victim down there. But oh yeah, we never could come 711 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: up with a good, plausible reason to be able to 712 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 2: do that. It's hard to knock on someone's door and say, hey, 713 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 2: I think there was a serial killer at lived at 714 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 2: your house. Can I go into your basement and see 715 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 2: if he killed somebody there? 716 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would let you in if you 717 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: came over and ask me that, I would want to know. 718 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 2: I have a feeling you're not the typical person. 719 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: Does he have any family that askings? Does he have 720 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: any family that's still around her alive you could talk to. 721 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 2: We did reach out to his niece, who handled his 722 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 2: estate on several occasions, but she did not respond. Now 723 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 2: what is interesting, Yeah, and you got to remember when 724 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 2: he went entered the federal system, they weren't required to 725 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 2: give DNA samples, and he died in prison and was buried. 726 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: But we do know that the Prince George's county did 727 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 2: keep some of the evidence and then two thousand and eight, 728 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 2: I believe they ran some DNA tests. One of the 729 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 2: victims had claimed that there was an accusation she was 730 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 2: with her boyfriend. She went to Ben's Jolly boll et cetera, 731 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 2: and he had always claimed that they had never had 732 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: intercourse that night and unfortunately, when they checked the panties 733 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 2: that they had, his DNA showed up, and he finally, 734 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 2: after all these decades, was can you imagine being confronted 735 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 2: all these years later? And he was like, I just 736 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 2: didn't want to hurt the family by letting them know, 737 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 2: but yeah, I had slept with her and we'd had intercourse. 738 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 2: So that ended up being a dead end. But we're 739 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 2: talking early two thousands here, when this was done her 740 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 2: mid two thousands. I think the technologies like i'm VACK 741 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: and some of these new DNA technologies could reapproach some 742 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: of that remaining physical evidence in Prince George's county and 743 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 2: potentially give a link and if anything, either rule in 744 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 2: or rule out. Robert askins. 745 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: Well. The next episode of Wicked Words mark Pinske on 746 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: the murder of a couple and how their killer was manipulated. 747 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 4: Brent Senior finally had enough and said I'm cutting the 748 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 4: credit cards off. Six weeks later, Brent Junior gets off 749 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 4: the bus in Montgomery and runs the two miles to 750 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 4: his old house. He sees there's no one there, so 751 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 4: he climbs up the trellis onto the second floor, punches 752 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 4: out a window, climbs in and waits. As if he 753 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,439 Speaker 4: wasn't troubled enough, He saw that his sister Robin's room 754 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 4: was exactly she had left it, but his bedroom had 755 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 4: become a storage closet for his mother's clothes. So he 756 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 4: felt displaced and almost erased from the family. So you 757 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 4: can imagine how that night was for him. 758 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available now, 759 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: including the audiobook. All that Is Wicked is based on 760 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: our first season of Tenfold War Wicked. You might think 761 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: you know the whole story of Killer Edward Ruloff's crimes, 762 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: but there's so much more. My book American Sherlock is 763 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: also available. This has been an exactly right Tenfold War 764 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: Media production. The producer is Alexis Imirosi, Our mixer is 765 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: Ryo Baum. Curtis Heath is. Our composer Nick Toga did 766 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: the artwork. Il Sabrink designed the website. The executive producers 767 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,760 Speaker 1: are Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked 768 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: Words on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more Wicked and 769 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter at tenfold more. And if you know of 770 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: a historical crime that could use some attention, especially if 771 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: it happened in your family, email us at info at 772 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: tenfoldwar wicked dot com. We'll also take your suggestions for 773 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: true crime authors for Wicked Words