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Speaker 1: Revels as a production of I Heart Radio. Hey everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Rivals, the show about music rivalries and beeps

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Speaker 1: and feuds and long simmering tensions between pop musicians. I'm Steve,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and in today's episode, two piano man enter

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Speaker 1: and one piano man leaves is rocket Man versus piano Man,

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Speaker 1: The Kings of Keys, the Ivory Princes. There we go,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, without further Ado Elton, Hercules, John and

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Speaker 1: William Martin. Joel, I cannot wait. I'm so excited. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to this one forever. There's so much excitement

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Speaker 1: coming off of you. This this is like Christmas Morning

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Speaker 1: for Jordan's. You've been You've been waiting for this one

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Speaker 1: for I want to say years. I feel like, long

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Speaker 1: before I ever knew you, you were wanting to talk

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Speaker 1: about this on a podcast. Oh my god, before I

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Speaker 1: knew what a podcast was, before podcasts existed. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to sit in my room with headphones on into

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Speaker 1: a microphone by myself and just talk about these two

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Speaker 1: piano man. I am. I am sub pumped. See I

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Speaker 1: I feel some melancholy going into this episode. I have

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Speaker 1: to admit, because really I love I love them both.

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Speaker 1: I love Billy Joel, I love Elton John. I've been

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Speaker 1: listening to these two men I feel like my entire life.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for a long time these two were bros.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were tight, they were touring together, and

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Speaker 1: then there was this split that occurred. And you know

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Speaker 1: it's like Cane enable, you know, I you know, warring brothers.

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Speaker 1: And it makes me sad, makes me a little said

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Speaker 1: that we have to delve into this, uh, even though

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Speaker 1: there are so many great details to discuss, some maody

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Speaker 1: great details. And they're both so their fuses are both

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Speaker 1: so short. I mean, Elton especially has had fuges with everybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my God, Madonna, Keith Richards, it just I mean,

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Speaker 1: he keeps gost goes on and on and on, Michael Jackson.

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Speaker 1: Elton was like the Liam Gallagher of his day, and

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Speaker 1: and he he might still out Liam Gallagher. Liam Gallagher

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Speaker 1: just in terms of just trash talking, oh people that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't like, and also trash talk and his friends talk,

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Speaker 1: trash talking people that he ostensibly likes. That's what sets

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Speaker 1: out in the part. Like a lot of these rivalries,

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Speaker 1: it's like people trash talking like I don't like that guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that guy's music. I don't like that

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Speaker 1: woman's music. Elton is like, I like you, but I'm

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Speaker 1: still gonna talk smack about you, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: in its own way, kind of refreshing too. Oh it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: You just zero it out, like, Okay, this is just

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Speaker 1: Elton being Elton, no matter who it is, it's just

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Speaker 1: what he does. He can't help himself. Okay, let's dive

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Speaker 1: into this battle now. Okay, I feel like you and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, we grew up with both of these people,

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Speaker 1: so we feel like we know their stories back and forth.

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Speaker 1: We know their catalogs upside and down. But just on

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Speaker 1: the off chance that there's someone out there who doesn't

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Speaker 1: know about these two guys, let's give the rundown on

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Speaker 1: their background before we get into the rivalry part. Steve

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Speaker 1: and I thought you'd never asked. I was born to

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Speaker 1: do this, all right. Let's look at the stats. Elton

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Speaker 1: came onto the scene first. He's a few years older.

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Speaker 1: He's born Reginald Dwight, the least rock and roll name

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Speaker 1: in history, in nine seven in the London suburb of

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Speaker 1: Pinner and he was something of a child prodigy. He

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Speaker 1: was classically trained at the Royal Academy of Music. That

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Speaker 1: he loved rock and roll, and he grew up in

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Speaker 1: school making money, you know, or in pocket money, playing

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Speaker 1: piano and pubs. And then he graduated to a sort

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Speaker 1: of a semi pro band called blues Oology, and they

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Speaker 1: released some not very good, not very bad mid sixties

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Speaker 1: kind of R and B singles, almost like Animals Georgie

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Speaker 1: fam and the Blue Flames kind of stuff in the

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Speaker 1: mid sixties. But they really made their name backing visiting

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Speaker 1: soul acts from the US, like big names like the

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Speaker 1: Easley Brothers, Patti Labell, Billy Stewart. But he didn't want

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Speaker 1: to spend the rest of his life backing touring musicians,

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Speaker 1: so he applied to work as a songwriter and he

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Speaker 1: was given at Randoms was nineteen sixty seven. The guy

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Speaker 1: who went to see just took one of you know,

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Speaker 1: a huge stack of envelopes off his desk, and in

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Speaker 1: those that envelope were lyrics by Bernie Taupin and just

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Speaker 1: by just one of those great universal hand of faith.

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Speaker 1: Exactly right. It's just this fifty interceedings, fifty year partnership

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Speaker 1: with some of the best songs in Rocks right and

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Speaker 1: the rock Gods smiled them that day in nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 1: So they started writing songs together, sold a few, didn't

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Speaker 1: really do anything, kind of realized, all right, the best

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Speaker 1: people to do our songs are us. Redge as he

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Speaker 1: was known at the time, realized that Redge wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: cut it for a name, so he looked to his

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Speaker 1: Bluesology bandmates, looked at Elton d And the sax player,

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Speaker 1: and long John Baldrey, the singer took Elton, took John,

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Speaker 1: put him together. Elton John Boom. Elton John was born. Um. Now, like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see Rocketman yet. I haven't seen that movie.

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Speaker 1: In the movie, don't they don't they say that like

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Speaker 1: he took the name from John Lennon in the movie.

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Speaker 1: I don't. There's some so I It's been a while

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Speaker 1: since I've seen it, but I'm pretty sure in the

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Speaker 1: movie they still have it as a long John Baldwy as.

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Speaker 1: Long John was medium sized star in the UK, and

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Speaker 1: he was out in the late sixties and a time

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Speaker 1: when that, you know, it really wasn't very common, and

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Speaker 1: he was a big a big influence on album, A

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Speaker 1: very big early influence who kind of you know, taught

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Speaker 1: him to listen to the voice inside of him about

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Speaker 1: in regard to his sexuality, So he he was very important.

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, like, I haven't seen Rocketman

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Speaker 1: because I'm not gonna see Rocketman until there's a Billy

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Speaker 1: Joel by Opie, just because I love both of these guys.

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Speaker 1: There needs to be a quality between the two piano men. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's a tangent. We need to go into it yet.

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Speaker 1: I mean Bernie Tuppen and Ellen John they're writing songs

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Speaker 1: together and like their first hit is your Song right

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Speaker 1: in the seventy Yeah, they put out the first album

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Speaker 1: eunt and put out album called Empty Sky in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. Didn't do anything interesting album but still flopped.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, their first big hit your song, uh self

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Speaker 1: titled second album, and it was a medium sized hit.

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Speaker 1: It kind of I think it was top ten, but

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Speaker 1: nothing huge. And then they put out two more albums

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Speaker 1: which were kind of Western tinge singer songwriter Laurel Canyon

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Speaker 1: adjacent type stuff. You have a Tumbleweed Connection my favorite

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Speaker 1: album of his, and then you had a mad Man

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Speaker 1: Across the Water, which has stuff like Tiny Dancer and

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Speaker 1: the title track and raise Your Face and these kind

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Speaker 1: of weird story songs. But then two Honky Chatau comes

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Speaker 1: out changes everything. First of seven number one albums in

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Speaker 1: a six years span, which is just nuts, their number

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Speaker 1: one albums, and they're also like pretty much all great.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned tub Week Connection being one of

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Speaker 1: your favorites. I love that record. I love Goodbye Yellow Brick,

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Speaker 1: the double record from seventy three Funeral for a Friend.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got the title track, You've got deep

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Speaker 1: cuts like I've seen that movie too. That's a great song.

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Speaker 1: And from then on, I mean, he's like a huge

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Speaker 1: star for a while, and there's like dips and valleys

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Speaker 1: in his career. You know, he goes into the late

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Speaker 1: seventies and he's basically like doing cocaine for breakfast at

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Speaker 1: that point, so he's not in very good shape. But

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Speaker 1: he comes back in the eighties and he has another

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Speaker 1: sort of renaissance in his career. He's putting out songs

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Speaker 1: like I'm Still Standing and I guess that's why they

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Speaker 1: call it the Blues and all those kind of songs.

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Speaker 1: And he gets in the nineties he's doing the Lion King,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he's still having hits. It just has

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Speaker 1: this incredible career like where you feel like Elton goes

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Speaker 1: away and then he comes back. He goes away and

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Speaker 1: he comes back and just kind of ends up having

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Speaker 1: hits like in almost every decade of like the last

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Speaker 1: fifty years. I mean, he goes away and he comes back,

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Speaker 1: but when he comes back it's in such a huge way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, first you got the seventies, it

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Speaker 1: was something like I think it was of every album

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Speaker 1: sold that year all had his name on it, which

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Speaker 1: is crazy. Was the first artist to have an album

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Speaker 1: debut at number one Captain Fantastic, and then next year

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Speaker 1: his next album, Rock of the Westies, he did it again,

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Speaker 1: just broke the record twice in a row. And then

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Speaker 1: nineties he comes back after basically coming out of rehab

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Speaker 1: in the early nineties. In his music before that, really,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was not good. He disavowed most of

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Speaker 1: his albums, stuff like six is Leather Jackets, which peaked

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Speaker 1: at nineties six on Billboard, which is crazy to think

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Speaker 1: of him having an album that low. But then you've

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Speaker 1: got you know, Candle in the Win nineties seven, which

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Speaker 1: is second only The White Christmas for the best selling

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Speaker 1: single ever. I mean, it's just I love that you

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Speaker 1: found a way to work leather jackets into the Wait,

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Speaker 1: how far, how far we we got? We gotta work.

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Speaker 1: We gotta work leather jackets into the bio. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to those of you playing me, John really is like

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Speaker 1: among the I mean, we're talking about how successful he was,

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Speaker 1: but really it is like in the very sort of

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Speaker 1: highest echelon of like pop stars, is what Elton John

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Speaker 1: is in terms of just the body of work and

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Speaker 1: how much success he's had. Like in two thou thirteen,

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Speaker 1: Billboard ranked him the most successful male solo artist in

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Speaker 1: Billboard history. You know, that's better than Michael Jackson, better

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Speaker 1: than Elvis Presley. And in the overall sort of spectrum

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Speaker 1: of artists, he was right behind the Beatles and Madonna.

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Speaker 1: So that sort of by itself, it's, you know, just

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Speaker 1: put the mic down at that point, dropped the mic.

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Speaker 1: Elton John, huge star, huge star, absolutely and then and

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Speaker 1: that brings us, of course to Billy Joel, also Billy

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Speaker 1: Joe Star Love Billy Joel raised in the Big Star,

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Speaker 1: raised in the Levitt Town prefab tract houses of Hicksville,

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Speaker 1: Long Island. You don't get any more American than that.

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Speaker 1: Um His uh single mom made him take piano lessons,

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Speaker 1: and pretty soon he was also taken boxing lessons to

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Speaker 1: fend off the boys who thought that piano lessons were persists,

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Speaker 1: which is at parts a little different than Elton. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He played in a couple local bands in a Long

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Speaker 1: Island called the Hassles. They had a record deal actually,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're pretty good too. It's kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of like Bluesology. They have a very similar early kind

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Speaker 1: of post Mersey B, R and B type career going.

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Speaker 1: Um cut his first solo disc, Cold Spring Harbor Great music,

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Speaker 1: kind of a disaster from start to finish though. It

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Speaker 1: was mastered at the wrong speed, so he sounded like

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Speaker 1: a chipmunk. And even worse, he signed this like really

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Speaker 1: terrible deal where he just signed away the rights to

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Speaker 1: basically everything he owned. Ever, it was just really really awful. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So he ended up basically getting into a fight with

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Speaker 1: the label owner because of the whole mastering snap Foo.

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Speaker 1: So he moved to l A to kind of hunker

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Speaker 1: down and hide out, and he got some tentative interest

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Speaker 1: in Columbia, and he was kind of waiting for Columbia

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Speaker 1: to their lawyers to get him out of this bad deal.

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Speaker 1: And to kill time and to earn some money, he

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Speaker 1: took a job at a place called the Executive Room,

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Speaker 1: which despite its name, was not very executive as a

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Speaker 1: sleazy piano bar. And that was really what inspired Piano Man.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the whole song is and now you know,

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Speaker 1: I was just gonna like do my Paul Harvey impression

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Speaker 1: there and say, and now you know the rest of

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Speaker 1: the story. Billy Joe played in a piano bar. And

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Speaker 1: of course we know the song Piano Man, and I

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Speaker 1: assume that, uh, you know, real estate novelists were hanging

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Speaker 1: out in this executive room, and uh Davy who worked

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Speaker 1: in the Navy, like all these characters that we know

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Speaker 1: from that song, I presumably they were hanging on this

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Speaker 1: piano bar. And he writes that song and it becomes

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Speaker 1: his first big FM radio hit. I think Captain Jack

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Speaker 1: is on that record as well, or at least around

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Speaker 1: that same time. So he has those hits, and then

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Speaker 1: he puts out some records after that too that I

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Speaker 1: think are pretty good turn styles. Best record from that time,

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Speaker 1: he's amazing. Turn Style is amazing, picked at like one

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Speaker 1: six even though it had New York State of Mind,

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Speaker 1: Miami Seen, Angry young Man, Summer Highland Falls, but it

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Speaker 1: absolutely tanked and Columbia was about to drop him. And

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Speaker 1: the nine The Stranger, which is Billies might drop moment.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's ten times platinum, four top twenty five singles.

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Speaker 1: It's basically a greatest hits album. I mean, let's go

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Speaker 1: in order, moving out the Stranger, just the way you are,

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Speaker 1: scenes of an Italian restaurant Vienna, only the good die Young,

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Speaker 1: She's always a woman. Those are the first seven tracks

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Speaker 1: on the album. I mean, it's it's it's insane. And

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Speaker 1: what's interesting to me about Billy Joel at this time

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Speaker 1: is The Stranger. It kicks off Billy's imperial period. We're

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Speaker 1: really like for the next you could argue up through

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Speaker 1: River of Dreams in ninety four that he had this

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Speaker 1: commercial dominants like this seventeen year run, but certainly like

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Speaker 1: into the mid eighties where he's making these records that

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Speaker 1: for Billy Joel hands are like the prime era Billy

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Speaker 1: Joel records. It's also this period where Elton John is

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Speaker 1: not doing that well, you know, so it's like one

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Speaker 1: piano man falters and then Billy kind of steps in

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Speaker 1: and now he's going to beat the piano man in

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Speaker 1: charge from like seventy seven to eight six or so.

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Speaker 1: So you have the Strangers, a big hit, you have

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Speaker 1: fifty Street comes after that, you have glass Houses and

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Speaker 1: the Nylon Curtain and in I said, man, all these records,

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Speaker 1: there's like multiple hit singles off of every record. The

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Speaker 1: catch though, for Billy and this is true more for

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Speaker 1: him than for Elton John, because I think Elton John

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Speaker 1: always got pretty good reviews during his career. Billy Joel

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Speaker 1: is not getting good reviews. The critics are beating up

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Speaker 1: on Billy. And I just want to quote my favorite

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Speaker 1: review of a Billy Joel record, written by Robert Chrisco

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Speaker 1: of the album Straight and the review and you know

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Speaker 1: there's other parts of the review, this is the most

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Speaker 1: pertinent part of the review. It's one word yuck. That

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Speaker 1: is Robert Christco's review Straight From, which I think is

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Speaker 1: actually really great record. I love Straight. It's Billy Joel

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Speaker 1: Steely Dan record. You know he's holding Zanzibar like jazzy

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Speaker 1: kind of rock big shots on that record. Rosalinda's Eyes,

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Speaker 1: great deep cut by Billy Joel. He's having this great

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Speaker 1: commercial success, but he's being pummeled by the critics. And

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Speaker 1: Billy being a reactive guy, he has big years. He

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Speaker 1: hears every negative thing written about him. He takes to

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Speaker 1: actually ripping up negative reviews on stage when he plays

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Speaker 1: his shows, which is it's in its own pretty rock

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Speaker 1: and roll. But I think it's fair to say that

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Speaker 1: this emboldened his critics. It did not chasen them. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that critics when they saw Billy Joel doing this,

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Speaker 1: they didn't think, oh my god, he's tearing up our reviews.

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Speaker 1: We need to review his albums more positively. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I probably had the opposite effect for music critics

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Speaker 1: of the time. So Elton John's doing his thing over here,

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Speaker 1: Billy's doing his thing over here. They formally come together.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's in for the face to face tour,

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Speaker 1: and it's this tour where we have one very melodic

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Speaker 1: piano man over here from England and we have another

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Speaker 1: very melodic piano man from Long Island over here. Let's

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Speaker 1: put them on the same stage and dueling pianos and

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Speaker 1: have them play each other songs and make a jillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that's basically what they did for like a long time, intermittently,

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Speaker 1: for what I mean fifteen years something like that, fifteen

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Speaker 1: sixteen years. And really that is kind of what sows

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Speaker 1: the seeds for their rivalry. Okay, so they're touring together,

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Speaker 1: they're making oodles of money. You don't have to have

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Speaker 1: a new album to tour. If it's a lean here

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Speaker 1: for Billy or it's a lean here for Elton, it's like,

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Speaker 1: we can still tour and like millions of baby boomers

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Speaker 1: are going to eat this up every year. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: just be rolling in cash like pigs and slop basically,

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Speaker 1: And who would ever want this to end? Who would

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Speaker 1: ever want this? Then? Why? Why should we ever stop? Well,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately it does stop. In two thousand ten, Billy Joel

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Speaker 1: ends up pulling out of a bunch of summer dates.

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Speaker 1: It's not quite clear why he's doing this, but for Elton,

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Speaker 1: Elton has thoughts. Elton has thoughts. For Elton, basically, it's

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Speaker 1: because Billy is a big booze hound and he's blaming

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Speaker 1: his drinking basically for them not being able to tour together.

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Speaker 1: And not only is he thinking this privately? He ends

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Speaker 1: up going to the media and telling them this specifically.

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Speaker 1: There's an interview in two thousand eleven with Rolling Stone,

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Speaker 1: the year after their final face to face tour and

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Speaker 1: Elton John He tells Rolling Stones Austin Scags that at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, he's coasting, referring to Billy,

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Speaker 1: Joel Billy, can't you write another song? It's either fear

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Speaker 1: or laziness. It upsets me. Billy's a conundrum. We've had

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Speaker 1: so many canceled tours because of illnesses and various other things.

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Speaker 1: Comma alcohol is him. And then he proceeds to say

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Speaker 1: that when Billy goes to rehab that he doesn't do

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Speaker 1: it the way that Elton went to rehab. He paints

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Speaker 1: this picture that Elton went to some kind of like

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Speaker 1: boot camp rehab where you know, people are really tough

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Speaker 1: on him and they sort of scared him straight and

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Speaker 1: it forced him to stop drinking and using drugs, whereas

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Speaker 1: Billy is, you know, going to these sort of country

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Speaker 1: club rehab places, and Elton called it rehab light rehab light. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think Alton talks about how he's cleaning toilets and

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Speaker 1: stuff and you know, Billy, I guess is you know,

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Speaker 1: just lounging in a lazy boy chair or something and

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Speaker 1: you know, not doing like the real work that you

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Speaker 1: need to do and rehab. And you know, Billy he

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Speaker 1: reads this interview and publicly he sort of laughs at Off.

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Speaker 1: He's like, oh, that's my buddy Elton. He says a

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Speaker 1: lot of things doesn't matter. Privately, However, Billy's pissed, Like

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Speaker 1: what did Billy say? Billy, Like what scorched earth? He

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Speaker 1: sent him this irate note? What gives you the impendent

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Speaker 1: moral certainty and authority to justify the public humiliation of anyone?

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Speaker 1: We are done? Which is my god, the omnipotent moral

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Speaker 1: certainty and authority, which, by the way, you know, Billy

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Speaker 1: wrote his own lyrics. He's got a way with words.

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Speaker 1: Elton didn't write his own lyrics, So, yeah, you called Bernie,

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Speaker 1: and Bernie could have like maybe come up with some

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Speaker 1: more colorful language. You know. Elton just went straight for

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Speaker 1: the you know, juncularly drink too much. Billy's busting out

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Speaker 1: the omniptenent moral certainty and authority. He's the he's the

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Speaker 1: scrabble champion between the two. Yeah, exactly, so we have

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Speaker 1: bad blood here in two thousand ten, and for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the two thousand tens, basically Billy and Elton

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Speaker 1: are sort of talking to each other through the press.

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Speaker 1: Like in two thousand eleven, Elton John goes on the

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Speaker 1: Today Show and he reveals that Billy Joel is furious,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he says that you know, Billy want

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Speaker 1: it basically wants to punch me in the ace over

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Speaker 1: what I've said. And then Billy writes into Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: and he says, I don't hate Elton John, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to punch him in the face. And he says, Elton,

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Speaker 1: you know my number, give me a call, and this

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Speaker 1: becomes sort of recurring thing for Billy Joel. And I

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Speaker 1: will say in Billy's defense that, like, I think he

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Speaker 1: sort of felt like, dude, if you think I have

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Speaker 1: a drinking problem, talk to me directly, don't go don't

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Speaker 1: go to the press. And now you're still going to

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Speaker 1: the press, like, you know my number, give me a call.

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Speaker 1: But apparently Elton never calls Billy Joel because this continues

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Speaker 1: to go back and forth publicly. It's a man who

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Speaker 1: who probably seems to have trouble expressing, you know, intimacy

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Speaker 1: and feelings, saying call me basically, it's just sad. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're right. Years later, he keeps saying numbers the same,

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Speaker 1: call me. It's it's really kind of tragic when you

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Speaker 1: put it that way. Yeah, we're gonna take a short

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Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, but we'll be

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Speaker 1: back soon with more rivals. So in twelve, Belton's on

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Speaker 1: the Today Show again and he says, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry that I made Billy Joel upset. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: the kindest, sweetest man in the most talented songwriter and

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Speaker 1: a great, great artist. And uh, he says, you know,

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Speaker 1: let's have lunch, and I'm sorry I've set him. But

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Speaker 1: apparently there's no lunch because in the next year, Billy

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Speaker 1: Joel does an interview with The New York Times magazine

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Speaker 1: where he makes a crack about Elton John having mom hair,

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Speaker 1: because he says, because because the context is that he

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Speaker 1: says that Elton John is like my mom, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he has mom hair, uh, which I which is

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Speaker 1: probably not actually his real hair. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: think that was absolutely not, which is a very it's

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Speaker 1: a funny way because they both are losing their hair.

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Speaker 1: One just went with it and the other God, my

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Speaker 1: mom hair wig. But you know, it's weird because as

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Speaker 1: this goes on, you know, because there's a there's an

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Speaker 1: incident at the Songwriter's Hall of Fame and in where

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Speaker 1: Elton John makes a reference to their feud, and then

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Speaker 1: Billy Joel goes up on stage later that night and

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Speaker 1: he again says, hey, Elton, give me a call. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you have an issue, call me. Do not talk

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Speaker 1: to me publicly again, dude, I've said this many times publicly,

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Speaker 1: do you just give me a call. But apparently there's

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Speaker 1: no phone call because they still continue to talk to

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Speaker 1: each other through the press many many times and many

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Speaker 1: times many times. And it's interesting because, like by En,

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Speaker 1: there's another interview Billy Joel gets asked about this again

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Speaker 1: in Rolling Stone, you know, Rolling Stone asked him do

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Speaker 1: you hope to sing with Elton John again before the

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Speaker 1: end of his farewell tour. Billy Joel says, I would

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Speaker 1: if he asked me to again with the sub tweet

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Speaker 1: to give me a call, and still isn't calling him.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of sad at this point, you know, we

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Speaker 1: worked together for sixteen years. Those were good shows. I

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Speaker 1: thought they were good. They were a good you. I

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Speaker 1: would work with him again absolutely. That's in May and

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Speaker 1: the Fall of Elton John releases his memoir Me Which

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Speaker 1: did you read that? By the way, I didn't see

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Speaker 1: the movie, but I did read his book. I did.

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Speaker 1: I I loved it. I absolutely loved it. It was

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Speaker 1: a great book, wildly entertaining. While the entertaining very He's

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Speaker 1: a great rock on tour, you know, It's very warm

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Speaker 1: and witty book. I thought it was interesting that Billy

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Speaker 1: Joel I believe, shows up on one page and Elton

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Speaker 1: John's book. It's page eight five, by the way, if

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Speaker 1: you want to skip ahead to it when you get

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Speaker 1: the book. And it's not to talk about how great

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Speaker 1: it was the tour with Billy. I mean, he compliments

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Speaker 1: him on his songwriting. He actually compares him to Lou

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Speaker 1: Read as a songwriter, which I thought was a very interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's like no music critic has ever made that connection

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Speaker 1: between Billy Joel and Lou Read. Uh just writing about

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Speaker 1: him and sort of like being like a an East

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Speaker 1: Coast New York centric typewriter, but the gist of what

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Speaker 1: he says about Billy Joel is just to reiterate this

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Speaker 1: thing about the tour and about how Billy Joel was

423
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: drinking all the time. There's a story in the book,

424
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: I think, where he talks about Billy Joel actually falling

425
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: asleep on stage because he was so drunk. And that's it.

426
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: That's it about Billy Joel in the book. So as

427
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: far as we know, that's where it lands. It's like,

428
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: it seems like these guys are reconciling. And then Elton

429
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 1: John writes his memoir doesn't talk about Billy Joel really

430
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: at all, except to take one more shot about the

431
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: Space to Face tour. But there's another thing that I

432
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: haven't really talked about yet with these two where they

433
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: were kind of giving each other a little bit of crap,

434
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: and it had to do with their respective artistic output

435
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: in their in their twilight years basically, And this is

436
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: a recurring part in interviews that they gave while they

437
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: were futing, at least on Billy's party. He mentions this

438
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: again and again and again in his own defense. Well,

439
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: and like in that initial Rolling Stone interview that kind

440
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: of kicked all of this off, like back in you know,

441
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: Elton John was doing little digs at Billy Joel, saying

442
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: like given in a song in years. And I'm sure

443
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: that you have opinions about this because you were talking

444
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: about leather jackets before Dalton John. I'm sure you have

445
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: opinions about late period Billy Joel, because Billy Joel basically

446
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: stopped making music in ninety four, right right? It was

447
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 1: The Bridge and then River of dream I mean, I

448
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: honestly I checked out kind of after an Innocent Man

449
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: and what was that four? And then he had two

450
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: albums after that, I'm and then was it the Bridge?

451
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: And I can't remember the other one? There was one

452
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: other one. There's storm Front and Always and then the

453
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: River of Dreams when we didn't start the fire, we

454
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: didn't start the fires on storm Front like huge defining hit.

455
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: Someone might someone might say his schlocky a song I

456
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: have a weak spot for we didn't start the fire.

457
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: But you know it's not Vienna, it's not suns from

458
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: Italian restaurant. You know, it's not it's not the Grade

459
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: A you know, uh steak tartar of Billy Joel's catalog

460
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: towards the end, but then he gets in the River

461
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: of Dreams in four and that's his last pop record

462
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: that he's made to date, and then after that he's

463
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: just basically just doing greatest hits tours for the next

464
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: thirty years. And this is the funny thing about River

465
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: of Dreams is that it feels significant to me. It

466
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: feels better to me than is prior to albums that

467
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: you know, the bridge and storefront, And I don't know

468
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: if that's real or I don't know if that's just

469
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: in my mind thinking, you know, almost like that's his

470
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: double fantasy record. I'm oh, he's back. Okay, he did

471
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: he that's him putting putting the cherry on on his

472
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: artistic gap. But he said what he wanted to say,

473
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: and then he decided he want to do something else.

474
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: I I don't know if if he had had a

475
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: bunch more albums after that, I have no idea how

476
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: I feel about River Dreams at all. I have no

477
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: idea if it would just be like you know, Paul

478
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: McCartney's Off the Ground, which I think I've played. Maybe

479
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I feel like I know the

480
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: answer to this question, and as you would not like

481
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: it as much as you do now, I think that's

482
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: probably her dreams. It's a fine record, but you know

483
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: it is it feels better than it is because that

484
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: was like the last Billy Joel music, which I think

485
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: is like the interesting thing about Billy Joel in a

486
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: way because the fact that he stopped is like raised

487
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: the estimation of his music were even like music critics

488
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: now we'll write nice things about Billy Joel and like

489
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 1: almost like wishing that he would like write another pop song,

490
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: like music critics who would never give him the time

491
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: of day, like when he was making an album every

492
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: other year. You know, the fact that he stopped now

493
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: it's like we need more Billy Joel. You know, it's

494
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: like why can't we have more Billy Joel albums? And

495
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: you know that was like what Elton John was doing

496
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: in the early two thousand tents. He was kind of

497
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: digging into Billy Joel saying like why aren't you making

498
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: new music? You just start of resting on your laurels,

499
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: And then Billy Joel shoots back saying basically, well you

500
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: should make less records, Like why are you still making

501
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: so many ms at this point in your life when

502
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: really like no one cares, like no one, no one

503
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: wants to hear, you know, Made in England or Songs

504
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: from the West Coast or I'm trying to think of

505
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: other Elton John albums, like from the last twenty years,

506
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: like Peach Tree Road, Peach Tree Road, you know. Yeah,

507
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: so the one with Leon Russell, Union, the Union, you know,

508
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: like whatever they might be. But like that becomes sort

509
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: of the crux of this thing, along with you know,

510
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: Elton being mad that Billy, you know, backed out of

511
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: these face to face tour shows. It becomes this argument

512
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: about like what is the right thing for a legacy

513
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: artist to do late in their career. Should they continue

514
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: to be creative or should they just say I'm out

515
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: of songs, I'm going to stop, you know. And that

516
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: seems to be sort of like the deeper part of

517
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: this rivalry, you know, that conversation. No, I agree, And

518
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: I it's funny because I came to Billy sort of

519
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: when he was it was a terrible way to put

520
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: up but sort of a spent fours like I came

521
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: to him. So I feel like there was the really

522
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: really um famous article about him, I Chuck Clustroom and

523
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: the uh I think it was two thousand one which

524
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: was basically sort of a whole reappraisal of Billy Joel

525
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: that I, in my opinion, at least with people in

526
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: my age group, is in the book Sex, Drugs and

527
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: Cocoa Puffs kind of painted him as this semi tragic,

528
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: almost like rock and roll Howard Hughes kind of thing

529
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: out on Long Island and his Zanna Do mansion alone,

530
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: and it really, in my opinion at least, kind of

531
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: revitalized him as this figure that wasn't just this almost

532
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: oppressive pop machine all through of the late seventies and

533
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: early eighties, but this kind of I won't say mad genius,

534
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: but um gave him a little more mystique and kind

535
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: of in a lot of ways, and my opinion, gave

536
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: him the credit that he uh felt denied for so

537
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: many years. I think it's absolutely right. I think that

538
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: story in particular really drove it home because you know,

539
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: there was something about Billy Joel in the eighties, and

540
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember, like when Billy Joel really

541
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: was this sort of inescapable figure that you know, you

542
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: you you would turn on MTV or VH one and

543
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: you would see the video for Uptown Girl, like every

544
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. And you know, he was kind of a

545
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: dorky pop star. You know, there wasn't anything cool about

546
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: Billy Joel. He was associated with making this sort of

547
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: middle of the road pop music that like your parents liked,

548
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: and uh when he went away and like you said,

549
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: he became this sort of like you know Howard, he

550
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: was a rock and roll figure. It did give him

551
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: sort of a romantic tragic quality that he never had

552
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: when he was like accessible. You know, it's like, oh, like,

553
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: now you're this, you know, guy that has been divorced

554
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: a couple of times. You you have some you know,

555
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: some substance abuse issues. Maybe it's it's it's weird to

556
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: say that that made him cool, but in a way

557
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: it did. And it was like, I wonder at some

558
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: point he realized that about himself, you know, maybe along

559
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: with not feeling like he had anything left to do

560
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: as a pop artist, because really, I mean, he wasn't

561
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: going to write another song that had the impact of

562
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: Piano Man or just the Way You Are or all

563
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: those great ballots that he wrote. It's like he did that.

564
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: It's like all you can do is kind of do

565
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: it again. If you're an artist at that stature, which

566
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: is a heartbreaking thing to admit, but it's also in

567
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: all the profiles you read of him recently. He's still

568
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: writing every day, which to me is someone who loves

569
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: that whole you know, great unreleased albums, Brian Wilson's smile

570
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: Basement tapes type stuff that's so fast. I mean, I mean,

571
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: do I think he's sitting on a bunch of you know,

572
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: New York state of minds? No, but I still am

573
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: so endlessly fascinated by what he's doing out there. See,

574
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: but by not releasing it, though the album in your

575
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: mind is gonna be way better than probably the album

576
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: that actually exists, you know, And just to have the

577
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: sort of idea of like a lost Billy Joel record,

578
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: which again, like in the seventies and eighties would have

579
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: been totally ridiculous, like, oh, like we're going to romanticize

580
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: unreleased Billy Joel records. Like the music critics of that

581
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: time would have just scott at that idea, because again,

582
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: like he was the Lost James Blunt album, he was

583
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: putting out albums like all the time, Like I mean,

584
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: from again, that's sort of like Imperial Billy Joel period

585
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: from like The Stranger through like Innocent Man. It's really

586
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: like a record every year almost or like a record

587
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: every other year, and again records that are producing multiple

588
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: hit singles. So as soon as like one single kind

589
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: of has its day, there's like another Billy Joel hit

590
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: like ready to kind of take over. And I think

591
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: that coupled with the nostalgia that like a lot of

592
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: people of my generation and probably even younger than me

593
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: half her Billy Joel, this idea that he was like

594
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: the soundtrack of your youth, it kind of all that

595
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: also gives another layer of like affection for him, where

596
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: now you can put a Billy Joel song in a

597
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: movie like Uncut Gems, you know, which used the Stranger

598
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: title track, you know, and it's like, wow, Billy Joel.

599
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: Not only is it like comfort food for a lot

600
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: of people, musical comfort food, it is now even kind

601
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: of hip, you know, like in this very hip crime movie.

602
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna put this song in in a

603
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: way that like, you know, Quentin Tarantino would have used

604
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: like some obscure like l Green song or something as

605
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: a needle drop in another generation, and now we're going

606
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: to use Billy Joel as like the cool needle drop

607
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: in this kind of movie. It's crazy. I will say, however,

608
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: on the other side of the coin that Elton John,

609
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, who has continued to put out new albums.

610
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: I don't think that that has hurt his legacy one iota.

611
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: I think that when people talk about Elton John, they

612
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: remember his great hits of the seventies, eighties and into

613
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: the nineties. And if he puts a Peach Tree Road

614
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: or the Union and people sort of shrug their shoulders. Actually,

615
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: I just thought of another Elton John the career album,

616
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: The Diving Board. You know the Diving Board, which has

617
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: a guy on a diving board on the cover. You know,

618
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: great metaphor there um anyway, you know, in a way,

619
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: I think people kind of appreciate it, like, oh, Elton

620
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: John still doing his thing. He's not resting on his

621
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: laurels like there. There's something sort of like admirable about

622
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: that as an idea. But the actual music, I don't

623
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: think it matters to people, and it doesn't hurt the

624
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: other records. Um, it's kind of kept him out in

625
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: the public eye in a way that you know, Billy

626
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: Joel isn't and I think that's been good for him,

627
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: but it's it's sort of like an all positive and

628
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: no negative thing for him. So like both of these

629
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: guys have kind of done the right thing for themselves.

630
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah. Um, So we have these two piano men.

631
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're feuding. They were friends, they're feuding.

632
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: Let's make a case for each of them here. What

633
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: would be your pro case for Elton John? And by

634
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: the way, I feel like this is tougher for you

635
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: because I'm getting strong Billy Joel vibes from you. I

636
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: feel like you are more of a Billy Joel guy.

637
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: Am I wrong? I? You know, I my favorite Elton

638
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: John songs rank higher for me than any of Billy Joel's.

639
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: But I think I love a greater selection of Billy's

640
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And my parents wedding song was

641
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: your song. So I think I have to give him

642
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: the edge because I might not be here. We're not

643
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: for for sir Elton. So, so is that the crust

644
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: of your case then? That like he made he made

645
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: your right yeah back to the future style, like if

646
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: he hadn't done your song? Now, I, um, I you know,

647
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not sure who I would choose. I mean Elton,

648
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: aside from all the commercial stats that we mentioned earlier,

649
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean, My God was at fifty top four, more

650
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: than fifty top forty hits, seven consecutive number one albums, uh,

651
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: fifty eight Billboard Top forty singles, twenty seven top ten singles.

652
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: I mean The Candle, the written remake, which is I

653
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: think sold thirty three million copies worldwide to date. It's

654
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: just it's not so there's that. I also think that

655
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: Elton is a better musician, and I think Billy's actually

656
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: admitted this. He said that, you know, yeah, Elton could

657
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: play circles around me. I've got a I've got a

658
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: weak left hand. But Elton, Elton's the Eltons, the true

659
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: pro and I I kind of agree that as a

660
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: as a musician, as pianist, I think it's better pianist.

661
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: I think it is better stagecraft. And even before all

662
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: the feather boas and stuff, all the way back to

663
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: his first uh you know, the famous shows at the

664
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: Troubadour nineteen seventy that kind of launched him as an

665
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: act in uh, the United States, he didn't have any

666
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: boas or crazy glasses or anything, like that, but he

667
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: was still doing Jerry Lewis flips on the piano and

668
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: handstands and stuff, and he knew how to put on

669
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: a show. And I think that was from the days

670
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,959
Speaker 1: when he was in Bluesology and backing all these great

671
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: American soul acts, and he learned a lot from them.

672
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: He learned tons of stagecraft. Yeah, I mean, I think yeah,

673
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: and I agree with that. I mean, I think that

674
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: he probably is a better musician and a better reformer.

675
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: I would say Elton John, just to reiterate what you said,

676
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just had the longer, more varied, and

677
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: more enduring career as a recording artist, you know. And

678
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: that's no slight to Billy Joel, because as we said before,

679
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: Elton John, with the exception of the Beatles and Madonna,

680
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: is like the most successful artists that there is ever

681
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: in pop music. I would say that for me, like

682
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: the best Elton John albums are probably better than the

683
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: best Billy Joel records, like I think Tumbleweed Connection and

684
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: Madman Across the Water and especial really good Bye Yellow

685
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: Brick Road for me being like kind of the pinnacle

686
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: of Elton John's career artistically, I think that they're better

687
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: albums than the best Billy Joel albums. However, and this

688
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: is where I'm this is, this is where I'm gonna

689
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: pivot to the pro Billy Joel side. I was listening

690
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: to The Stranger, like before getting on this podcast with you,

691
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: actually listened to it with my wife because my wife

692
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: is a total Billy Joel head. And if you're gonna

693
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: party with my wife, the Stranger is the number one

694
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: party album of all time. And we got together, we

695
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: had some drinks, we were blasting The Stranger, and we

696
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: just like rocked out to Billy Joel The Stranger. And

697
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: I feel like the biggest baby boomer in the world

698
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: saying this. I'm not a baby boomer by the way,

699
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm a gen xer, but like to say that you

700
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: rock out to The Stranger, like you could not have

701
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: a more okay boomer moment than that. But um, as

702
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: much as I could be, like, you know, I think

703
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: artistically Tumble We Connection has like better songwriting. I think

704
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: in terms of like proximity to my heart, The Stranger

705
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: holds a very special place for me, as does fifty

706
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: two Street and Glass Houses. Those three albums in particular,

707
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: I think I have such a sentimental value to me.

708
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: And I also say, and we've we've alluded to this already,

709
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: that Billy Joel to me is a more interesting character.

710
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: Uh and and and maybe that's something that's evolved later

711
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: on in his career that's sort of pop star and hiding.

712
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, the guy who was the biggest thing in

713
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: the world and then maybe his personal issues took him

714
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: out of the game, but he can still deliver on stage,

715
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: and he still has this great catalog. It's a very

716
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: intriguing pop kind of persona that he's developed later on

717
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: in his career. And there's always that promise that maybe

718
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: he has some real bangers in his coppers that he's

719
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: going to release some day and he's going to take

720
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,479
Speaker 1: over the world again. I don't actually think that's gonna happen.

721
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't intellectually think that Billy Joel can do that,

722
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: But there's a romantic part of me that holds onto

723
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: the idea of like the long lost Billy Joel album

724
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: coming out and it's like the reincarnation of the Stranger

725
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: and he's gonna come back and it's going to be

726
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: like his time out of mind or something. Uh, that's

727
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: a very intriguing thing. And I actually don't think that's

728
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I don't think he's going to put that

729
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: out because I think he's happy he's doing what he's doing,

730
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: and I think he knows he's got a good thing.

731
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: He's kind of like cooler than he's ever been in

732
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: his career at this point, So like, why ruin it

733
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: by putting on a new album that may only disappoint people?

734
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: What's your pro Billy Joel Case, I agree with that.

735
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: I also think that his songs feel more personal to

736
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: me because, as you said earlier, he writes his own lyrics,

737
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: and there's something about that, you know, the idea of

738
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: the writer going off alone to the piano and pouring

739
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: out their feelings. And he and he's known as a

740
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: very romantic guy. I mean, there's the famous story of

741
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: very early in his career he uh had an affair

742
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: with his best friend in bandmate's wife and when it

743
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: all kind of self destructed and blew up in his face,

744
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: he went off and drank furniture polish and try to

745
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: kill himself because he was so heartbroken about the thing.

746
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: And there's something very vulnerable about that and very human

747
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: about that, and you just feel like he's a very

748
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: easily hurt guy in these songs, or how he how

749
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: he deals with everything that's on side of him. I mean,

750
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: do I know him personally, No, but there's an element

751
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: of I wish you did. By the way, when she said,

752
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: oh yeah, Billy Joel. By the way, he's sleeping on

753
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: my couch right Oh yeah, he's best friends. He's on

754
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: my couch watching like you know, Hitler's henchmen right now

755
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: making a model of the uss Arizona. I feel like

756
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: it's a big history nerve. I don't know what I'm

757
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: basing that on, but but yeah, there's something about there's

758
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: something that feels more personal and more I guess because

759
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: more personal, more universal to his songs. And that's not

760
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: taking any from the Elton's amazing stuff, but just something

761
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: about the working method of Bernie basically like fasting and

762
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: faxing him over poems and then Elton sitting down and

763
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: there's something kind of I'm not gonna say it's not

764
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: incredibly inspired and genius, but there's something workmanlike about that

765
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: which takes a little bit out of it for me.

766
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: Um that maybe that's why I give Billie's songs slightly

767
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: more of an edge, at least in the emotional department. Um.

768
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: I also think, you know, at the other end of

769
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: the spectrum, I think he's got a better voice. I

770
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: think he's got a much more adaptable voice. Alton sounds

771
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: like Alton kind of on whatever he's singing, but Billy,

772
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: I think it's much more adaptable, kind of like Paul McCartney.

773
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: You can sing Ray Charles Blues stuff for high pitched

774
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: falsetto Frankie Valley stuff like Uptown Girl. I just think

775
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: he's got an amazing voice. Yeah, he's really underrated as

776
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: a singer, I think. I mean, I'm always knocked out

777
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: when I hear you may be right. And I remember

778
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: at some point I realized that he was like totally

779
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: aping mc jagger that song, you know, like that's like

780
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: that's his attempt at writing a Rolling Stone song. And

781
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I was like, he did he did that really well,

782
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, like there's something about Billy and I think

783
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: people knocked him for this, But in the end, I

784
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 1: think it's an attribute that he was such a good

785
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: mimic of different pop styles and that he could write

786
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: in any kind of style and do it really incredibly.

787
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: You know, Like one of my favorite Billy Joel songs

788
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: is scenes from an Italian Restaurant. He's talked about how

789
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: his goal with that song was basically like I wanted

790
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: to do my version of Side two of Abbey Road.

791
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna do a bunch of little song pieces.

792
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna piece them into this suite. And you know,

793
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: as much as I love Side two of Abbey Road,

794
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: in a way, Billy kind of bested the Beatles and

795
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: that he was able to make this swite and have

796
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: a coherent story go through each part of that song

797
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: where it really kind of pays off and you feel like, wow,

798
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: this is like almost like a little movie that I've

799
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: watched listening to this track, and you know, going back

800
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: to your point to about how Billy Joel feels more personal,

801
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, he's the guy that wants Elton to call him.

802
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: It's like, just give me a call, let's talk about this,

803
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, and Elton is the guy who doesn't call.

804
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: Elton is the guy who's gonna almost goes to the

805
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: Today Show, who goes to Today's Show and kind of

806
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: treats this as like a performative show business type thing,

807
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: like I'm talking to my friend Billy because I'm concerned

808
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: about his issues, but I'm doing it in a public way,

809
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: and it's kind of an extension of you know, whatever

810
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: it is, you know, I'm putting out into the world.

811
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: And and Billy doesn't do that. It's not a performative

812
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: thing for him. It's like, I'm actually hurt by what

813
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: you're doing. I'm I am legitimately angry about it, and

814
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: I would rather just talk about it and to me

815
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: in a way that kind of sums up their personalities.

816
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: And you know, I love Elton John, but there's something

817
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: kind of more real about Billy in that respect. So

818
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was the closer of the

819
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: Chuck Clusterman essay, or he says, I look at Billy, Joel,

820
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: I see as me, and uh yeah, I mean in

821
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I think I see I don't

822
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: want to speak for everybody, but I see a lot

823
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: of myself in him when he's sad, when he's completely

824
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: stupidly in love. I mean, I think all the songs

825
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: that he did on On an Innocent Man all tributes

826
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: to music from his childhood because he said he was

827
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: just in love with Christie Brinkley and felt like a

828
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: kid again. You know, stuff like that he when he

829
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: when he's in love, he lets you know it. When

830
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: he's sad, he lets you know it. And there's something

831
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: really really great about that. Yeah, there's something. There's something

832
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: Billy Joel that like, even when he was super successful,

833
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: he still felt like a loser to some degree, like

834
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: he kind of projected loserdom and you know, and I

835
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: think that maybe for critics or for people who don't

836
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: like Billy Joel, that makes him maybe seem pathetic or

837
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: makes him easier to dislike. Whereas if you love Billy Joel,

838
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: it's what connects you to him, because it's like, even

839
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: if he's like a millionaire and he's married to Christie

840
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: Brinkley and he's having tons of hit songs, it's like

841
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: he's still kind of a loser. But it's like I

842
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: feel like a loser, you know. It's like he's like me,

843
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: I connect with, you know, whatever angst he has that

844
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: he can't get rid of. And it's again one of

845
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: those things where you look at Elton John, We'll call you.

846
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: This is the only way I know to communicate with you,

847
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: Jordan Is through this public forum of podcast. Okay, we're

848
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and then get back to

849
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: more Billy versus Elton. Well, let's bring these two back together.

850
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: Let's reconcile these guys. You know, they're they're arguing about

851
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: the face to face tour. They're snapping each other in

852
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: the press. Alden has taken one more shot at him

853
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: in his book. But we ultimately want these guys to

854
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: be to be friends again. So like, what what is

855
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: the case for bringing them together. I always loved them both.

856
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: I always kind of saw them as two sides of

857
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: the same character. Kind of Billy Joel was Clark Kent

858
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: to Elton John's Superman. They were both like that, these

859
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: super awkward kids who wanted to play rock and rock

860
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: and roll. And Elton made himself and he literally named

861
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: himself Elton Hercules John. He made himself the superhero character

862
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: despite being just the nerdiest nerve. I mean, if you've

863
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: got a Google childhood picktures Melton John, I mean, just

864
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: super nerd. But he just reinvented himself and it was

865
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: inspiring to anyone who can you know, you can be

866
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: whoever you want to be, and Billy sort of took

867
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: the opposite approach and just showed up looking like one

868
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: of the roadies. And he doesn't give a ship, and

869
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: he still kicks ass at Madison Square Garden more than

870
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: any other artist, married a supermodel, and just basically this

871
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: whole ethos as fuck you, this is who I am,

872
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: which is very rock and roll. So Elton kind of

873
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: created himself and succeeded, whereas Billy succeeded kind of in

874
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 1: spite of himself. And they're both inspiring in the same way.

875
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: And they have like a really weird if you actually

876
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: look point by point their career trajectories in their past,

877
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: it's almost like the like villain origin stories in all

878
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: the superhero movies, Like they were like brothers at one

879
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: point who are then separated than somebody was doctor evil

880
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: Man and somebody was you know, the other guy. It's like,

881
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they both were raised without father figures,

882
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: in working class, suburban kind of waste lands. They both

883
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: were in these mid sixties beat groups that kind of

884
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: had middle local success. They both were really unlucky in

885
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: love early in life and had these kind of tragic

886
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: comics suicide attempts. Elton put his head in an oven,

887
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: but opened every window in the kitchen. He he was

888
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: a cry for help. He wanted, he wanted to be

889
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: found and stopped, and Billy drank furniture polished around the

890
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: same age as I think they're both around twenty we

891
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: even get furniture polished. I don't even know they're they

892
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: don't don't tell that anymore. It's like I can't polish

893
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: any of my furniture in my house. I mean, probably

894
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: after Billy Joel talked about it too many times, exactly

895
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: the Billy Joel rule. We gotta get rid of the

896
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: furniture polished so aspiring singer songwriters don't off themselves. Yeah,

897
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean their first solo album, Interesting Ignored

898
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: broke through with treakily tracks on disc number two. Your

899
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: song and piano Man would kind of define that. Billy

900
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: Joel awards leather Jacket on the cover of Glasshouses. Elton

901
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: John has an album called Leather Jackets. You Gotta bring

902
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: the Leather Jackets back? Yeah, I mean, you know you

903
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: you mentioned the superhero thing. Like the thing I thought

904
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: about was like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, like

905
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: they like like like just archetypical partners, you know, like

906
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: two guys that you know, like like like Sun Dance

907
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: is the taciturn one who never talks, and I guess

908
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: he'd be more like the Billy Jewel I guess. And

909
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: then you know, and and Butch Cassidy is like the grinning, outgoing,

910
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: swaggering one, and he'd be like Elton John. You know.

911
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: But it's like these two guys they belong together. You

912
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: just feel like they work so well together on that tour,

913
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: the face to face tour, and and like you said,

914
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: there's so many parallels in their career. It's like, just

915
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: get over it, guys. Elton, pick up the phone. Billy

916
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: has been begging you for so many years, reconcile, do

917
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: one more tour together. Guys, life is too short. We're

918
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: begging you here, me and Jordan's here on the Rivals podcast,

919
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: make it happen. Do you think we can do it?

920
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: You think we can bring these guys together. I think

921
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: if anyone can, we can, we can do it. Well.

922
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: On that note, I think we need to say goodbye.

923
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: I know we could talk another like five hours about

924
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: all the parallels between these two guys. But before we

925
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: do the one last thing, the Billy Joel biopic, who

926
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: would play him? My bets on Paul Giamat, Oh my god,

927
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: Well Gati would be like late per read Billy Joel,

928
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: like you know when he's in the mansion talking to

929
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: cluster Man. I guess that could be like the framing

930
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: device that like some journalists is talking to Billy Joel.

931
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: And then Joel said, well, that reminds me of a song.

932
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: It's been the longest time since I've thought about this stuff.

933
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: And then they flashed to like a younger Billy Joel

934
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: got who would that be? Well, you know who they

935
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: would cast probably well, no, I was gonna say, they

936
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: would get like like who some dude that plays piano

937
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: right now? Like, uh, is there like any like young

938
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: piano playing They get like Charlie Pooth or something, and uh,

939
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: someone like that. Or maybe they they'd get like some

940
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: some shoe polish and put it like an edge Sheeran's

941
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: hair and had that cheering to do, like a long

942
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: Island accent. You know they're gonna get some cheeseball modern

943
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: day pop start to play Billy Joel. Um. You know

944
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: it would have been cool like in another era, like

945
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: if they had made a Billy Joel by a pick

946
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: in the eighties, they have like Ralph Macchio play Joel,

947
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: or some tough Italian dude you know, or have like

948
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: a young Nicholas Cage play Billie Joel, like in the eighties.

949
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: I think that would have been good. But you know,

950
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: we missed that. We missed that boat. So now we're

951
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: stuck with Charlie Pooth playing uh Billie Joel. It's gonna

952
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: be terrible, but but I would see it the day

953
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: it came out in theaters, and then I can finacy

954
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: Rocketman because there'd be the the equitable distribution of biopics

955
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: between piano man. So I said at the beginning that

956
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: two piano man would enter, one would leave. But let's

957
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: say they both leave together, arm in arm into the sunset,

958
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: face to face. All right, Man, always a pleasure talk

959
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: with you. Jordan's so much fun st And I'm excited

960
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: to talk about another rivalry next week, all right, look

961
00:51:52,320 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: forward to it. M Rivals is a production of I

962
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The executive producers are Shawn Tytone and Noel Brown.

963
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: The supervising producers are Taylor Chacogne and Tristan McNeil. I'm

964
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: Jordan Run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what

965
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: you heard, please subscribe to leave us a review. For

966
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart

967
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

968
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: favorite shows