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Speaker 1: Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationships and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling. Reivalry. No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 1: You don't do that with your mouth, Vely, that's good.

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Speaker 1: So today on the podcast are Lindsay and Lisa Adario.

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Speaker 1: Lindsay is a photojournalist who works for publications like New

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Speaker 1: York Times, National Geographic, and Time Magazine. She's documented things

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Speaker 1: like the life and oppression of women living under the Taliban,

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Speaker 1: the lives of children displaced from the war in Syria,

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Speaker 1: and most recently the Pandem. Her latest book of photography

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Speaker 1: of Love and War is incredible. And I've actually known

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Speaker 1: Lindsay now for a little bit. We met years ago,

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Speaker 1: and so it was one it was really nice to

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Speaker 1: catch up, and it was also great to kind of

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Speaker 1: hear from her sister's perspective just what it feels like

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Speaker 1: to have a sister that is just absolutely fearless and

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Speaker 1: does all this incredible work. And it was interesting to

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Speaker 1: talk to her not only about not only about that,

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Speaker 1: but also about her being a mother and what it

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Speaker 1: was like to be a mother, having the job that

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Speaker 1: she had, you know, a passion that's going to take

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Speaker 1: you away and put you in harm's way, and trying

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Speaker 1: to balance that with being a wife and being a mom. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and during quarantine, it's interesting, this is the first time

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Speaker 1: that she gets to be at home with her babies,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we talk a lot about a lot

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Speaker 1: about that and how that how she feels about that

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Speaker 1: as well. That was a really interesting world. The world

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Speaker 1: is quite foreign to so many of us. We don't

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Speaker 1: really understand what that's like, you know, ye to be

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Speaker 1: pulled to that kind of work. And then of course

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Speaker 1: her sister is like up in Silver Lake. You know,

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Speaker 1: she's so great. I mean, she's like, we haven't even

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Speaker 1: gotten to her sister yet. Yeah writer, oh right, her husband,

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Speaker 1: she's in film and television. You know. So it's like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I know, I love it. I love it. It's so funny.

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Speaker 1: She's like, hold up in Silver Lake for the last

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years. She's super mellow, super cool,

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Speaker 1: you know, a writer. It's like the antithesis, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. It's it's really an interesting dynamic. And

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Speaker 1: their whole family, four girls. They grew up in the

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Speaker 1: most sort of eccentric home. I don't even want to

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Speaker 1: get into it because it's it is so good that

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Speaker 1: you don't want to kind of. I don't even want

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Speaker 1: to preface it with like what their family life growing

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Speaker 1: up was like, No, we won't even talk about it,

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Speaker 1: but I will say this, There's there's something refreshing about

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Speaker 1: growing up in a home like they did, meaning you

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Speaker 1: can be whatever you want to be and here are you.

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Speaker 1: You can there are no boundaries, you know, feel what

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Speaker 1: you want and be what you want and it's pretty cool. Actually,

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Speaker 1: well anyway, without further add a further adude, Yes, here's

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Lisa Adario from the Buckingham Pot in Jorg. Should

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Speaker 1: we hop in? Well, we were just talking. We were

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Speaker 1: just talking about how Lindsay's you know, was trying trying

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Speaker 1: to get access to these hospitals in England and there's

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Speaker 1: just no access. They're just not allowing people in basically

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Speaker 1: to photograph. It's crazy. I mean I thought that I

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Speaker 1: would like come out here and dump my family at

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Speaker 1: my in laws and go back to London and work.

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Speaker 1: And I applied it like six different hospitals to work

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Speaker 1: in the er and the ICUs and everything. No way,

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Speaker 1: They're like, no, it's crazy, Like no one's gotten access. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: unless you're married to a doctor or you are a doctor.

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Speaker 1: So basically, when I realized I wasn't getting access, I

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Speaker 1: started covering deaths and funerals and burials, like how the

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Speaker 1: ritual of dying has changed because of the pandemic. And

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Speaker 1: it's been amazing. Actually, it's been really interesting, Oliver. When

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Speaker 1: I first met Lindsay was years ago and we My

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Speaker 1: first question to her, just even just like having tea,

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Speaker 1: was like what pulls you into Like Lindsay has to

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Speaker 1: be at the epicenter at whatever cost of everything that

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Speaker 1: is happening in the world. And I find that so

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Speaker 1: admirable and brave, but like insane at the same time,

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Speaker 1: Like what is it in you that gets you? You

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Speaker 1: have to be the you can't stay away, even after

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Speaker 1: being kidnapped, you have gone back, you get kidnapped again,

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Speaker 1: you keep going back. You want to be on the

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Speaker 1: front line, But like, what is it internally that keeps

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Speaker 1: you pulled to these more dangerous type situations? I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I wish I knew what it was, Like, I wish

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Speaker 1: there was some sort of formula. So I can sometimes

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Speaker 1: stop it because it's really annoying for me that I'll

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Speaker 1: be sort of watching something unfold, like in Syria or

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Speaker 1: you know, wherever it is, and I feel my sort

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Speaker 1: of self getting really tense, and then I feel this

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Speaker 1: sense of dread because I know I'll want to go there,

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Speaker 1: and then I start sort of researching and figuring out

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Speaker 1: can I actually go there? And who will send me?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the other thing. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have to There are very few publications I would

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Speaker 1: actually go into war for because you you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: it's like I've been around long enough to know that

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Speaker 1: when things go wrong, I need to be working for

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Speaker 1: the New York Times or National Geographic or Time, like

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Speaker 1: someone who will have my back, you know who, Like

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Speaker 1: if I go missing in Libya, like they will activate

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Speaker 1: an entire team to figure out how to find us

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Speaker 1: and to negotiate our release. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know what it is, but I just

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Speaker 1: know that the sort of overriding feeling is that I

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Speaker 1: think it's fundamentally important to cover what's happening in the world,

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Speaker 1: and that people need to have a perspective, they need

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Speaker 1: to understand you know what's happening simultaneously around the world,

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Speaker 1: sort of the disproportionate fortune that is sort of allotted

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Speaker 1: to different people around the world. And I just think

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Speaker 1: it's important to document history at all times when possible. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually is it time? Is it the publications who negotiate

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Speaker 1: these releases? Is that how it works? No? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think every circumstance is really different. Like the first

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Speaker 1: time I was kidnapped was in Iraq, and that was

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Speaker 1: only a day, so that was like, you know, easy peasy,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was just like we just had a

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Speaker 1: bunch of gun storeheads for the entire day and basically

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Speaker 1: had to convince these guys to let us go. So

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Speaker 1: The New York Times actually never even got involved for

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Speaker 1: that one. It was basically us negotiating with the insurgents

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Speaker 1: in like a village outside of Falluja. And that was

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four. But in a case like Libya,

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Speaker 1: there were four of us, four the New York Times

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Speaker 1: on the front line. Kadafi was still in power, and

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Speaker 1: so The New York Times had four journalists go missing.

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Speaker 1: And so, to be honest, like I don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: what went on because we were all tied up and

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Speaker 1: beaten up and like in a prison cell. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do know from the lawyer that there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of high level negotiations and it was

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Speaker 1: you know, everyone who could sort of stand up for

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Speaker 1: us and say that they wanted to help did And

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Speaker 1: I think that really made a huge difference. And then

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Speaker 1: your sister Lisa is like, that's great, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be in silver Lake. Yeah. Right, we're watching the whole

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Speaker 1: thing unfold on the television. We see CNN with like

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Speaker 1: ali Velshie were like, and they show pictures of Linz

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Speaker 1: and then Paul pleading for her life and we're watching

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Speaker 1: it all. I mean, like you know, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that. I want to get to that,

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Speaker 1: because that really, honestly from it's one thing to hear

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Speaker 1: it from Lindsay's perspective, but to hear it from like

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Speaker 1: the family's perspective. But let's start with just introducing where

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Speaker 1: where you guys are from. You know, where where did

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Speaker 1: you grow up? What was your whole situation? Mom, dad,

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Speaker 1: four sisters, right, yep. Okayis suburban Connecticut, Westport, Connecticut, home

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Speaker 1: of some a list, mostly D list movie stars, but

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Speaker 1: there's Paul and Juanne, you know, Paul Newman and Juwanne

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Speaker 1: Woodward that our parents did their hair kids of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, our hairdressers to the stars were our parents.

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Speaker 1: You know, they met in hair dressing school. So we

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Speaker 1: had know, we grew up in the suburbs in Connecticut

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Speaker 1: with all of us, you know, with we had an

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Speaker 1: amazing childhood. But what era, what years was it was

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Speaker 1: this when you guys were kids eighty eighty well, seventies, seventies, eighties,

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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. Yeah. I was born in seventy three

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Speaker 1: and Lee was born in sixty eight, and we were

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Speaker 1: on the fourth and Lee is the second. So then

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Speaker 1: we have our oldest was born in sixty six and

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Speaker 1: then Les was born in seventy one. But I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to get like the hairdresser, like the hairdo style,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like total Oh, like you're

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Speaker 1: like shampoo, it's shampoo time. It's like seventies, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: little later later. Yeah, Like the era we grew up

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Speaker 1: in was definitely more eighties that a lot of perms,

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Speaker 1: a lot of hems going on. You know, everyone had

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Speaker 1: a perm and it was you know, depending on what

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Speaker 1: you think about perms. Yeah, what was your what was

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Speaker 1: your dad's hair? Like, oh big, he had big hair.

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Speaker 1: Started as an afro, you know, he had an afro

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Speaker 1: in the seventies and then he kind of tamed it

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Speaker 1: and for a lot of pots smoking, a lot of

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Speaker 1: it was you know. I like one of my earliest

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Speaker 1: memories was like all the pool parties that the hairdressing

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Speaker 1: community used to have at our house growing up. So

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Speaker 1: it was just like, you know, we were the forward

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Speaker 1: kids like wandering around, but I mean it was an

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Speaker 1: insane childhood. Like half the men were dressed as women.

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Speaker 1: It was a drag. Yeah, it was like the mock weddings.

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Speaker 1: Our parents had mock weddings with men in full like

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Speaker 1: wedding gowns, and they would stage mock weddings by our pool.

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Speaker 1: Like once a month we would have a dude in

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Speaker 1: full drag getting married at our pool and we were

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Speaker 1: just like kids running around, you know, like my kind

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Speaker 1: of party. Yeah, I like it way ahead of your time,

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Speaker 1: way ahead of your time. This was just normal life

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Speaker 1: to you though, or right? Or did you did you

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Speaker 1: understand that it was more progressive and different? It was

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Speaker 1: only different when like our weird conservative neighbor up the

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Speaker 1: hill threatened to kill everyone because we were living in sin,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it was like every once in a

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Speaker 1: while one of our friend's parents would like screech into

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Speaker 1: the driveway and like demand to take their kid back

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Speaker 1: because we were a house of sin. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, yeah, usually I mean and poor

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Speaker 1: poor mothers, because usually when they pulled up, we were

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Speaker 1: stark naked on our butts and sliding down going like

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Speaker 1: four hundred miles an hour. Yes, yes, we would also

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Speaker 1: completely torture the construction crew next door because lynz remember

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Speaker 1: when the they were renovating the house next door, we

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Speaker 1: would full on just get naked, climb to the top

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Speaker 1: of the slide and be like whooo to the construction

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Speaker 1: workers next door, and then jump off the top of

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Speaker 1: the slide into the pool and then I have four

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Speaker 1: of us. My god, but these are the seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 1: like this is you know anything? You know? At that time,

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Speaker 1: it was just like there were no rules, you know.

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Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, the PTA would have a meeting

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Speaker 1: every so often being like don't let your kids go

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Speaker 1: to the Adario house, Like I love it that's the

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Speaker 1: house I would want to go now, so fun. We

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Speaker 1: had so many like kids taken in that would sleep

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Speaker 1: on our couch or in one of our beds. Like

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Speaker 1: we had so many friends who just would rather have

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Speaker 1: been raised by our mom and would just show up

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Speaker 1: at our doorstep. And we had tons of kids, tons

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Speaker 1: of wayward friends of my parents. Like our house was

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Speaker 1: the house you know that took in anyone? It was

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Speaker 1: like the fun house. Was there any structure, no, zero,

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Speaker 1: except for going to our grandparents on Sundays, like oh yes,

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Speaker 1: oh ye, dinner as a family. We always had dinner

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Speaker 1: as a family, no matter what. Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What about What about schoolwork? Was it like figure it out?

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Speaker 1: Just yeah? It was kind like no one ever helped

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Speaker 1: us with our schoolwork. Neither of our parents went to college.

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Speaker 1: I was the first of four kids to graduate from college,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, our kids, our parents were

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Speaker 1: like what what home where? I remember so distinctly getting

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Speaker 1: straight a's in a report card and being like, guys,

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Speaker 1: I got straight a's. You want to see my report card? Nothing.

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Speaker 1: I had to tack it up on the fridge and

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Speaker 1: be like put arrows to it and be like look

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Speaker 1: I'm doing about They didn't give a shit. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're like great, but I mean the only thing they

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Speaker 1: ever told us was like, do what you love and

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Speaker 1: you'll be happy and successful. Yes, that was it. That

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Speaker 1: was kind of our motto. Yeah, god, that's so great. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there's four girls. Who's the oldest, Lauren, she lives

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico and she is a teacher. She was

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Speaker 1: an artist and then she got her degree. She has

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Speaker 1: a master's in arts and she teaches media. She's a

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Speaker 1: professor at she's a professor at University of Albuquerque, and

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Speaker 1: she lives in New Mexico with her husband. And then

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Speaker 1: there's me and I went to college at a small

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Speaker 1: liberal arts school on the East coast, Connecticut College and

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Speaker 1: Les never went to college. She's two years younger than me,

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Speaker 1: and she lives here in la And weirdly, or not

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Speaker 1: so weirdly, her husband is my husband's brother. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, yeah, so we fixed that. We're the

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Speaker 1: older siblings. Yeah, so two sisters married to brothers, and

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Speaker 1: so we fixed them up. Yeah, it's pretty awesome because

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Speaker 1: we have the same in laws. And you guys are

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Speaker 1: all creatives. How could you not be. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: impossible to not be creatives coming out of that house.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if one of us were like an accountant. How

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Speaker 1: far apart was everybody you know from oldest to youngest?

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Speaker 1: Were you guys a pretty solid close group? We're all

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Speaker 1: two to three years Yeah, So so you grew up.

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Speaker 1: How close were your parents were they? Did they have

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Speaker 1: a good relationship? Was it a relationship the best friends? Okay? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And business Park, I want you to tell us what

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Speaker 1: happened with the relationship, all right? I mean, according to

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Speaker 1: our dad, he always knew he was gay and was

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Speaker 1: like squaring around with his cousin when he was like

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Speaker 1: twelve or whatever. But you know, he always knew. But

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a guy who was raised in

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Speaker 1: the fifties or forties, so it was from an Italian

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Speaker 1: American Catholic family. So there's no way he was coming

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Speaker 1: out anytime soon, you know. And so he and my

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Speaker 1: mom met in beauty school when they were eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and hello, red slag, No shit, we're like, Mom, didn't,

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Speaker 1: I mean, nothing occurred to you she was She's like,

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Speaker 1: he was so nice. He was like so different than

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Speaker 1: any of the other guys. You know, because our mom

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Speaker 1: literally dated mobsters like her entire like high school. She

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Speaker 1: grew up in New Haven, Connecticut, so she basically I

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Speaker 1: think I think she was engaged to a dude who

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Speaker 1: died in jail. And then our dad comes around and

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Speaker 1: he's like opening doors for her, and he's really sweet,

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Speaker 1: was pretty love yeah, yeah, and she's like she was

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Speaker 1: just so sensitive, you know. And so they liked each

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Speaker 1: other and they were best friends, and they had similar interests,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think they both wanted a family,

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Speaker 1: and it was I mean, our mom to this day

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Speaker 1: will swear that she didn't know that he was gay,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, okay, so they were married

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Speaker 1: seventeen years and the way, and so basically, you know

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Speaker 1: how we grew up in this sort of commune of

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Speaker 1: like hairdressers and like very open household and like everyone

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Speaker 1: was always welcome. And then one she describes it as

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Speaker 1: one Sunday, she went to Bloomingdale's and she went to

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Speaker 1: go like she went to go get new curtains or

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Speaker 1: something for the house. And she went and asked for

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Speaker 1: the interior decorator, and there was Bruce, and she and

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Speaker 1: Bruce formed this like very fast friendship and she invited

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Speaker 1: him to go home with her at the end of

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Speaker 1: his shift to redecorate the house, and she was like

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Speaker 1: clean to my house and that was it. Like basically,

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Speaker 1: Bruce ended up moving in. He became part of the family.

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Speaker 1: Everyone loved him. He had grown up in Indiana and

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Speaker 1: you can, you know, imagine what that was like for Bruce,

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Speaker 1: who knew he was gay from like the like from

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Speaker 1: when he was a yobbler basically, and so Bruce really

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Speaker 1: became like best friends with my mother, and it actually

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Speaker 1: my dad actually found himself being attracted to Bruce and Mike,

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Speaker 1: and they ended up basically starting to have an affair

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Speaker 1: in the house like while we were all there. And

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Speaker 1: of course I was too young. I was like seven

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Speaker 1: years old. I was very young, and I was eight

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Speaker 1: when he left, so I didn't really understand anything at

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Speaker 1: the time. But I think Lee, you were older and

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Speaker 1: you remember like the whole how it all panned out.

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Speaker 1: But essentially, my dad and Bruce fell in love and

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Speaker 1: that was when my dad had to make a decision

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Speaker 1: to actually leave. Had your dad had any other affairs

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Speaker 1: or you know, been with a man prior, Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 1: He had a few dalliances, as he would say, but

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Speaker 1: he never like you know, he was never in love

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Speaker 1: with anyone. It never came to the point where it

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Speaker 1: jeopardized his family. And this was like, you know, they

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Speaker 1: had a very successful business, our parents and Bruce was

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Speaker 1: what the shop colorist, and our dad was like the

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Speaker 1: star hairdresser, and our mom was and the three of

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Speaker 1: them worked really well together and for years. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we have to back up because my mom taught Bruce

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Speaker 1: how to color hair. Hair. So yeah, oh oh, so

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Speaker 1: he became a colorist. Yes, he became a color This

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Speaker 1: is the thing. Our mom said to Bruce, you have

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Speaker 1: an eye for color, because he was an interior decorator.

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Speaker 1: So she's like, I think you could be an amazing colorist.

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Speaker 1: So our parents actually paid for Bruce's beauty school to

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Speaker 1: get his license and put him through beauty school and

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Speaker 1: then he was certified, and then he started working at

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Speaker 1: the shop, and it was all very you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of like he was almost like an uncle to us.

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Speaker 1: He was always around the house. He was best friends

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Speaker 1: with our mom, and it just became too hard for

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Speaker 1: them because they were in love, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: your mom knew your mom knew it she knew. At

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00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 1: first she didn't know. But then what happened was our

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Speaker 1: dad told our mom that he was gay, and they

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Speaker 1: tried to make it work, Like our dad left for

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Speaker 1: a little while, and then you know, we all went

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Speaker 1: to summer camp for two months, and they tried to

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Speaker 1: make it work, like to separate, and then it was

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Speaker 1: too hard and so like they went back and forth

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Speaker 1: a couple times, and it was a real struggle where

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00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: they would try to like stay together and just our mom.

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Speaker 1: Here's the crazy thing. Our mom would drive after work

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday night, would drive our dad and Bruce

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Speaker 1: to the train station so they could go into the

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Speaker 1: city together for Sunday and Monday, and then pick them

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Speaker 1: up at the train station and they would all go

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00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 1: back to work together on Tuesday. Wow, it's like, you know, yeah,

352
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 1: aggressive right in the eighties. The challenge with that, I

353
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: would think, would be like, you can't if someone wants

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Speaker 1: to be with another gender, if that's there, like, you can't,

355
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: there's no Yeah, well that's what our mom would always say. Well,

356
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Speaker 1: at least there was nothing I could have done, you

357
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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like when it was finally over,

358
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Speaker 1: she could at least he didn't leave her for another woman,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And basically, Bruce is pretty

360
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Speaker 1: much the closest thing you could get to. The female

361
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: version of our Mom have the exact same They're like

362
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: super they're like best friends, and they're both totally manic

363
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: and fun and you know, they're like the fun crazy people.

364
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Speaker 1: So they get along really well, and they're very social

365
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: and they're the connectors, you know, And so in a

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Speaker 1: way it worked out. I mean, now this is thirty

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00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: what how many years later? It was nineteen eighty two

368
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: when he left, So yeah, that is so Lisa, as

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Speaker 1: a film producer, how how have you not made this movie? Oh?

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Speaker 1: There you go, I have Yeah, No, we have a

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Speaker 1: script that we have wrote, you know, twenty years ago

372
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: and have been rewriting it from different perspectives, and it's

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Speaker 1: we're actually trying to get great great time period too.

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Speaker 1: It really is, well, you know a big part of

375
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Speaker 1: that whole thing and of our Dad coming out really

376
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: was I mean, this was nineteen eighty three, nineteen eighty two.

377
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Speaker 1: The thing that also you have to remember was this

378
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: is when AIDS came out, and so a big part

379
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: of the lens of this is the whole, like it's

380
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 1: kind of like what we're going through now people, except

381
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: people didn't know how you got it, where it came from,

382
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: you know. So we would literally be going to parties

383
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Speaker 1: at our dad and Bruce's house when we were all little,

384
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Speaker 1: and we'd be leaving the house and our mom and

385
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Speaker 1: her best friend Roxanne would be like, don't eat any hamburgers,

386
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: don't take a drink over there. You don't know how

387
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: you could get it, you know, And it was like

388
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: we didn't. There was such a sense of like paranoia

389
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: from AIDS and it was really crazy, and it infiltrated

390
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: the the you know, it kind of permeated everything at

391
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: the time for a for you know years. Do you

392
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: think that you're upbringing sort of how it was a

393
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: bit of a free for all and very progressive and

394
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: sort of follow your heart mentality. I mean, do you

395
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: think that that was a cushion, you know, for you

396
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: guys in dealing with a situation like this divorce and

397
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: with another man and just sort of the you know,

398
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I think so, yeah, because that's for

399
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: it sounds like a hard situation, but I feel like

400
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: you guys probably handled it well. Yeah, we talk about that. Yeah,

401
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: we talk about that all the time. That it's insane

402
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: that out of all of us, like no one became

403
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: like angry, went off the deep end became you know,

404
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean we really you know, we all and now

405
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: we're all really close. I mean, we go on vacation together,

406
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: my mom, dad, Bruce, all the sisters, all the husband's kids,

407
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: everyone and so. But I think it's probably because we

408
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: were raised in this incredible environment of love and like

409
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: support and being open and non judgmental and everything. So

410
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: when all of this happened, we had the tools to

411
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, you know, the important thing is that

412
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: we we can get through this, you know. And you know,

413
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: of course there were times that were not so easy,

414
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: and there were times where my mom was really angry.

415
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I have very vivid memories as the

416
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: youngest sister. You know, I was very close to my

417
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: mother and and sort of I was the one who

418
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: was still at home through all this, and I and

419
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: I and I think, you know, but definitely the way

420
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: we were raised helped us get through this. And did

421
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: you guys four come together? I mean when this was happening,

422
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: was there any camaraderie there or we got thrown down

423
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: the stairs a few times by Lauren. We were all

424
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: like our childhood. I mean, you can imagine four girls.

425
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: It's like everyone's like, oh, you guys get along so well. Well,

426
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't like that when we were children. Les and Lyns,

427
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: the two youngest, may be like, I hate you, I

428
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: help you die, like curling forks at each other. I

429
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: didn't still to her, no, but we used to Like

430
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: Linz and Les used to fight, and then me and

431
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Lez used to gang up on Linz, like we used

432
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: to lock her out of the after and we made

433
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: secret languages so that she didn't understand. And then Lore,

434
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: the oldest one, used to choke me. I mean she's

435
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: four foot eleven, I'm five to seven or five. She

436
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: literally would like hold me up against the dresser and

437
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: my feet would be dangling and she would be choking

438
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: the life out of me, and I'd be like mom,

439
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, we would all kill each other growing up.

440
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: And was there discipline there? Meaning like because Katie and

441
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: I were were actually we discipline our kids? You know,

442
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: we actually were very free. We're very free, but we

443
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: do like some discipline. But was it just like oh

444
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: girls figuring shit out well. Our parents weren't around when

445
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: that bad shit was happening, Like they were at work

446
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: all the time, all the time, all the time. I mean,

447
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: the only time I remember getting in trouble was when

448
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: I tried to make you eat shit. Literally never I

449
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: put it. I mean, Lynn's was really small, and she

450
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: had one of those training toilets, and I put I

451
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: took her ship and I put it in a hot

452
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: dog bun and I tried to make her eat it.

453
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: And then she started crying and our mom heard like

454
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the commotion, and she cold. I think mom came she

455
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: because she stormed in the bathroom. And that was like

456
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: maybe the one and only time I remember getting in trouble.

457
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: I feel like every older sibling tries to get the

458
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: youngest kid to eat shit, right and telling a story,

459
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I remember now, I'm like

460
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: remembering all of her, Like I remember looking at a

461
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: toilet and A'LLI being like, oh my, but it's good,

462
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: like it's good. Remember do you remember this? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

463
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: I remember in my bathroom and I yeah, downstairs in

464
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: your house now, but where the bathroom was in the

465
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: living living room area, Yeah yeah, I mean I would say,

466
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: the camaraderie really came, Like to answer your question, it

467
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: was more like when our dad came out and left,

468
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: and that was you know, it was hard, and our

469
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: mom definitely struggled and like had a nervous breakdown full on,

470
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: and you know, and she had to move houses and

471
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: it was really hard. And probably for Les and Lynz

472
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: who were still home at the time, like in the

473
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: years following, like Lauren and I went to call, you know,

474
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: we left and would come back and like kind of

475
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: see what was happening. But I definitely think it was

476
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: harder for the Les and Lynz, the younger ones who

477
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: were actually going through it and seeing it on a

478
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: daily basis more. And the camaraderie really happened when we

479
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: kind of all left the house and then would come

480
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: home together and all be together at Christmas. That's when

481
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: we were all really fully kind of like I would say,

482
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: we're there to support each other through it all, because

483
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: you know what it's like when people go off to

484
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: college and you talk like once, what was that like

485
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: for you? And less than when the older girls left.

486
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: I mean, did you feel because your dad when I

487
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: was your dad at the time, So I really picked

488
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: up on my mom's anger because I was the youngest

489
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: and I was really close to my mom. And the

490
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: other thing is we were raised in this incredible like

491
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, we had a six bedroom house in Westport, Connecticut,

492
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: had they had an incredibly successful business. We had like

493
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, endless supply of like junk food, food, friends,

494
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like it was this incredible scene. And then suddenly it

495
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: ended like the party was over, like you know, and

496
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: my dad left, my sisters went off to college. I

497
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: remember there was a time where my dad when he

498
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: he left, he also went into business with Bruce. He

499
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: had stayed with my mom for some years to try

500
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: to make that business work, but it didn't because it

501
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: was just too stressful. So he and Bruce opened a

502
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: salon together, and basically most of the employees went with

503
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: my dad and Bruce and my mom like couldn't pay

504
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: the bills anymore. And so I spent like half of

505
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: high school waking up and looking out the window my

506
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: bedroom window to see if the car had been processed,

507
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: like yeah, the irs would like come take the cars.

508
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, the electricity would be

509
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: shut off, like literally, we had no money. So we

510
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: went from like a six bedroom to a four bedroom,

511
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: to a ten bedroom to a condo. Yeah, and that

512
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: was all in my high school. I mean it was crazy,

513
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: So it was Wow. Was that kind of a dick

514
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: was there? That kind of a dick move on your

515
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: dad's part? I mean, well, look, I mean you think

516
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: about like what he had gone through living like his

517
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: whole life that was essentially a lie because he was

518
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: raised by this super hardcore Italian Catholic mother who would

519
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: have put him in a mental hospital had he come out.

520
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: So I think, sure at the time it was a

521
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: dick move, but if you you know now as an

522
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: adult looking back at the decisions he had to make,

523
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he had to do it, and

524
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: it's like he tried really hard to make it work,

525
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: and I think it didn't and so he did what

526
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: he could, you know. But I think I'm almost talking

527
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: about the business side of it. Yeah, yeah, well the

528
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: personal side, I mean, god, you have to do it,

529
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: you have to do what is in your heart, obviously always,

530
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: but from a business standpoint, it's like he's just siphoned

531
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: off in everything that him and your mother built. Yeah,

532
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: that that's true to a certain extent, But there's like

533
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, there are nuances and there there are facts

534
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: that make it like you know, like, here's the thing.

535
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Our mom, I mean, our dad was definitely the star.

536
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: Like he was the guy who was cutting hair in

537
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: the front window, you know with this he was like

538
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: the gilla gorilla. Yeah, he was there and people came

539
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: from hours away to have their haircut by Philip, you

540
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: know what I mean. This is like he was Warren

541
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: Baby like literally telling you I just like I'm telling you.

542
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: And he looked like him, and he was really good

543
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: looking and poised, and he was an artist. And although

544
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: not to say our mom was incredible and they were

545
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: definitely partners, but our mom was more like the people person.

546
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: She worked at the desk. She did do hair color,

547
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: but she was when they're when my dad finally left,

548
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: he our mom bought him out of the business, and

549
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: she you know what I mean. And so that really

550
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: because of you know, pride, and she she had every

551
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: right to have pride, because they had spent seventeen years

552
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: building up this business. But you know, from a financial standpoint,

553
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: if you're just looking at it, like what should she

554
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: have done? You know, she chose to buy out his

555
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: half of the business got it and that's what really

556
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: made her broke because she could have taken that, you know,

557
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: not done that. But I see why she did it totally.

558
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: But from a financial standpoint, that's that's, you know, realistically

559
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: what happened and why it didn't work out finance. So

560
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: moving forward, your dad ends up with Now, are they

561
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: still together? Yes, they're married. They've been together for her

562
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: And where did they move to? Did they move out

563
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: of Connecticut? Did they go to all there? Oh? Wow, okay,

564
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: so they're still all in Westward are they now? Do

565
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: they spend a lot of time together? Yes? All when

566
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: we're all together, they're always together. Yeah. But when my

567
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: mom last year, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer

568
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and Bruce was taking care of my making care of her.

569
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: I can't scream. It's like, you know, amazing. So yeah,

570
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's really smart. Did your mom ever remarry

571
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: or no? She calls herself the black widow and the

572
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: black widow everyone my date dies. She's literally like, you know, okay,

573
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: first she dated a guy with an oxygen tank, so

574
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: that wasn't going very far because shes like she loves

575
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: these Italian gangster types and like he was fully on

576
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: with the pinky ring like he was literally a mom

577
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: My sated him when he could barely walk. He was

578
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: walking around with an oxygen tank and they were like, mom,

579
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: you should really, you know, maybe think the mister Johnny thing.

580
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: And so he died, which was normal because he was

581
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,959
Speaker 1: like in his nineties, but you know. And then yeah,

582
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: Louis had cancer. He died well, first teacherated on her.

583
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: Then he died. And then Frank, who was like the

584
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: love of God, and the two of them were like

585
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: they had one year of absolute bliss. He was eighty two,

586
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: she was seventy eight, right, yeah, and one one night

587
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: he dropped dead in her arms in bed. No and yeah,

588
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: he yes, it was the same, send her I love you.

589
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

590
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: I love you so much. You're my soulmate, and died literally.

591
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: Oh like she was the worst luck with men and

592
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: so finally and then like three years later, she was

593
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: set up to go on a date with someone and

594
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: the week before their date he had a heart attack

595
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: in dot Oh my god, yes, she's a black widow.

596
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: This is like so bad, it's hilarious. I might I

597
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: might agree with your mom, I might have to agree

598
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, what does this mean? God? Oh God? Okay,

599
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: and then and and so and then Dad and Bruce

600
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: are still together and happy and yeah, yeah, and they

601
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: still work. Well. When did you pick up a camera? When? Oh?

602
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: I was young? Like twelve? Actually, my dad gave it

603
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: to me because a client of his gave him an

604
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: old nikon and I was visiting him right after he left,

605
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: and I saw it and kind of asked about it,

606
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: and he gave it to me, and that was it.

607
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: It was like I fell in love with photographing and

608
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: became obsessed and whatever. But I never wanted to be

609
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: a photographer because I always thought it was like a

610
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: flighty profession, you know. I just never really took it seriously.

611
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: And then it wasn't until after I graduated from University

612
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: Wisconsin that I said, actually, all I want to do

613
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: is photograph, So why don't I just kind of give

614
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: it a little time? And you think it was an

615
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: escape for you at all at twelve years old, being

616
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: able to look behind be behind the camera and sort

617
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: of look through a different lens, so to speak. Or

618
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: is that my reach? I mean, so you photographed? I

619
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: very very wow. I think it was definitely a tough

620
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: time for me because I like initially didn't understand why

621
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: my dad left because I didn't really get it. And

622
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: then I mean, I don't know. I also just kind

623
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: of loved the science of the camera, Like I kind

624
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: of always loved science as a kid, and I love

625
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: the way that you can capture light and the shutter speed,

626
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: Like the balance of the two just created this image.

627
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: And so and Lisa photographed a lot. I think I

628
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: don't know if it was escapism, but it definitely was

629
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: a hobby that I like completely was like enveloped in,

630
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, I just loved it. What was your first camera?

631
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: Do you remember a Nikon FG? When did you get

632
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: into like developing your own pictures and all of that. Yeah,

633
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: So in high school, a friend of my mom's had

634
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: a dark room, and so I think I was probably

635
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: a sophomore in high school, and she took me. I

636
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: asked her to teach me, and that was like an epiphany.

637
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the first time I remember just

638
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: like spooling film and watching it come up come up

639
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: on the on the print through the red light. I mean,

640
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: there was nothing like it, and so that was it.

641
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: I spent like so much time when I wasn't like

642
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: making out with boys. I was like in the dark room,

643
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, so you just make in the dark room. Yeah,

644
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: I never did that. I don't think I like never

645
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: made the combination. So yeah, that was that became a

646
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: total obsession for me. I switched to digital after September eleventh.

647
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: So I shot film for many years. God isn't it

648
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: crazy how because you know, I mean just even just

649
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: liking to take pictures as a hobby. When you would travel,

650
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: you'd have just like bags of film everywhere you'd go.

651
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: You'd come back, you'd have to like write out your

652
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just such a pain. Yeah, I

653
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: mean that's the thing. It's like I don't even I

654
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: even have like really nice film cameras from like I

655
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: don't know, fifteen years ago that I still bought even

656
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: though ill you've given it to the kids. Like yeah,

657
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: each of our kids has one of Linz's old cameras.

658
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: And our daughter is going into photojournalism. She's at Emerson

659
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: in Boston and she has two of Linz's old cameras,

660
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: and they, like the teenagers now, for them, a film

661
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: camera is like shoot, you know, it's super cool. Yeah,

662
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: so she's definitely into shooting only film. You know, she

663
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: shoots mostly film because it's so retro and cool. Yeah,

664
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: but Lisa, how do you feel about that? I mean,

665
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: I was just her daughter going into photo journalism. I mean,

666
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: that's worry because she's so different. She would never go

667
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: to the Middle East and put herself Sorry. Like last year,

668
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: I was shooting for Nick Christoph and Cheryl who Dunn's

669
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: book on America, and I say, and Lee was like,

670
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: will you take Lou on assignment with you? And I

671
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: was like, are you sure you want me to take

672
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: her on assignment? So I went to Baltimore and arranged

673
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: a police ride along into like the tough and toughest

674
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: neighborhoods of Baltimore, and Lou was seventeen at the time,

675
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: and I coldly and I was like, you know, we

676
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: might get shot at, Like are you okay with this?

677
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: And He's like, yeah, she'll be fine. Well she I mean,

678
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: I feel like if she's with Lynz and she's in

679
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: a situation that Linz has kind of vetted, like Linz's dummy,

680
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: and she's been doing it forever, and so I know

681
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: she's in good hands what I mean, I'm not worried

682
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: about that. I just mean, like in terms of her

683
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: being a photojournalist and where she might end up doing that,

684
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: I feel like she is Definitely she doesn't have the

685
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: adrenaline rush that her aunt has put it that way,

686
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that adrenaline rush. Yeah, Oliver, Oliver,

687
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: we are in the Rockies and the Ruggies, We're in

688
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: the Raggayes. So this is gonna be your favorite, Adam, sure,

689
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: because you've been talking about this for so long and

690
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: now we're finally here. Our family's up in Colorado. We

691
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: came home for a bit, finally arrived to the Rockies

692
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: where and I'm gonna be honest because I can't say

693
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: immediately because I unpack and stuff. But the minute that

694
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: I got settled in, I was finally drinking my cores light,

695
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: looking at the mountains, and I was deeply satisfied, deeply

696
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: deeply satisfied. You know, this isn't the kind of summer

697
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: where you took your cores to like a festival or

698
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, a big wedding or brunching. This is a

699
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: very different kind of summer. But we're here, and I

700
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: don't know I feel like I feel like your Cores

701
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: lights taste is just as good Cores Light as Mountain

702
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: cold refreshment. Made to chill. Cores Light is brewed with

703
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: a three step cold process, cold logger, cold filtered, and

704
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: cold package, so it's actually made to chill. The new

705
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: course summer there's sunglasses and the sunglasses turn blue, So

706
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,479
Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of a fun new little

707
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: summer twist. Yeah, the cold part is key and ice

708
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: cold Course Light. Even just saying that right, ice cold

709
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: Course Light, it makes you want to just guzzle one.

710
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: In fact, I just went on a run, and I

711
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: know I'm supposed to drink water, but as I'm speaking

712
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: right now, I need a Corese Light. I'm going to

713
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: crack an ice cold Cores Light. That's why Course Light

714
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: is one that I choose when I need a moment

715
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: of chill. So when you want to reset this summer,

716
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: reach for the beer that's made to chill. You can

717
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: have Corse Light delivered by going to get dot Coreslight

718
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Speaker 1: dot com and finding local delivery options near you. As

719
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: you're out there this summer having your cores Please, please

720
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: please drink responsibly. Corese Brewing Company Golden Colorado. Function of Beauty,

721
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,919
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733
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744
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745
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: function of Beauty dot Com slash sibling. Didn't you just

746
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: go back to Afghanistan? Yeah? I was there? Yeah, how

747
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: was that? It was really interesting to go back after

748
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: It was the first time I'd been there in like

749
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: three years, so it was crazy. I mean, I've been

750
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: working there for twenty years so that and usually I

751
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: go every year, but it's been a while. It's really sad.

752
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: They're like blast walls everywhere, these huge cement walls in

753
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: front of every house. Now no one can basically leave

754
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: the house because in addition to the sort of terrorist attacks,

755
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: there's also robberies because people are so desperate and poor,

756
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: so there are like carjackings now and all these things

757
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: on top of the terrorism. So it's just a nightmare.

758
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like horrible. How do you stay safe?

759
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean it's a weird question, but you must do

760
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,959
Speaker 1: major vetting of you know. I'm like, how does that happen?

761
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: How do you stay safe? Yeah? I mean, look, it's

762
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: so different now from like like when I first started,

763
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: because when I first started, it was basically up to

764
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: the journalists to sort of like navigate how dangerous things were.

765
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: But in the last ten years, journalists have become targets

766
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: of basically all these organizations and governments because they get

767
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: away with it with impunity, you know. So we now

768
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: have security guys like who live in the houses in

769
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: the field or travel with us, and they're not armed.

770
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: They're like none of us are allowed to carry weapons,

771
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: but they advise us like often it's a judgment call thing,

772
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: you know. So we have a really intensive system of

773
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,439
Speaker 1: like navigating the risk and figuring out the best route,

774
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: the best time of day to leave. You never take

775
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: the same route to a place is back, You never

776
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: establish a pattern, you you know, you never tell anyone

777
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: where you're going. I mean, there are all these little

778
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: things that you do and you learn, like you know,

779
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: how to manage in the field, and so that all

780
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: is sort of plays into staying safe. Is that part

781
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: of the allure? I mean, is is that part of

782
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: the not at all? Oh? No, it's annoying. Actually, because

783
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: it's like it really affects my photos, like it affects

784
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: you can't stay anywhere longer than like forty five minutes

785
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: because if someone finds out there's an American there, they'll

786
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: they'll send a team to kidnap you. So you have

787
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: to like work really quickly and always be looking over

788
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: your shoulder. And because I've been kidnapped twice, I'm so paranoid,

789
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, all the time, and so it's really like

790
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: it's it's annoying actually more than anything. What was your

791
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: first job with the Buenos Aires Herald. Actually, I tried

792
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: desperately to get a job with them in Argentina because

793
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 1: I finally, when I graduated from college, I made a decision, Okay,

794
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to just give this photography thing a try.

795
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to learn Spanish. So I moved to Argentina,

796
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: rented a room from this guy, and suddenly decided I

797
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: wanted to work for the local English newspaper, and I

798
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: basically went in there. The photo department was two like

799
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: forty something year old men who just chained, smoked cigarettes

800
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 1: and never actually took pictures. They just like bought pictures

801
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: off the ap wire all the time, and I kept

802
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: going in there and saying like, I want a job.

803
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: I want a job. Will you give me a job?

804
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: And they were like no, you know, learn how to

805
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: speak Spanish and come back. And they kept sort of

806
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: saying that to me, and I kept going back, and

807
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: I was so persistent and so annoying, and finally they

808
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: were like, well, look, Madonna's in town and she's shooting

809
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: a Vida at the Casa Rosada, and if you can

810
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: sneak on set and get a picture of Madonna, we'll

811
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: give you a job. And I was like, okay, I

812
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: can do it. This is my big break, you know.

813
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: And so I I had my little nikon camera with

814
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: a fifty millimeter lens, a millimeter lens, and I was

815
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: sure that, like I was going to get the picture,

816
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: you know. And I went and there was of course,

817
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: like a you know, all the security around the perimeter,

818
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: you know. And I went up and I was like, hey,

819
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, can I come in? I'm a photographer And

820
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: they were like who do you work with? And I'm like,

821
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, the Buenos Aires Herald and they were like,

822
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: where's your press pass? I was like, I don't have one.

823
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: They were like no, you can't come in. And I

824
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: went into this teminute explanation of how if they let

825
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: me in, I was going to get my first job

826
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: and I was going to be famous one day, and

827
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: could they please just let me in? And it was

828
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: my big break. And so they were like, Okay, you're

829
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: so pathetic, like we're going to let you in. So

830
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: I got in and I got on the press riser,

831
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: and of course Madonna was like a kilometer away. She

832
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: was like ten miles away, you know, and I couldn't

833
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: see anything. And so one of the wire photographers had

834
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: basically like a hubble telescope of you know, of a lens,

835
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: and he looked at me as I climbed on the

836
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: press rise room, was like, oh my god, are you

837
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: seriously like standing here with this tiny lens? And he

838
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: said give me. He goes, hey, kid, give me your

839
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: camera back. And I was like, what does he mean,

840
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even know really how to use the camera,

841
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: and he's like he just like took my camera. He

842
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: took the lens off for me, and he put my

843
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: camera back on his giant lens and Madonna was like

844
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: front and center. And actually the picture I shot is

845
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: like an empty balcony, like you don't even see Madonna.

846
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: But I got a job. Wow, that's a great story.

847
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god. How long were you there? I was

848
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: there like nine months. Yeah, and then I moved back

849
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: to New York. How old were you when you were, like,

850
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: I want to be in the center of what is

851
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: happening in the in the world. Probably twenty three, twenty

852
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: four maybe, Like I went back to New York. After that,

853
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 1: I worked for three four years at the Associated Press,

854
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: like freelance, and that was like covering Mayor Giuliani at

855
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: City Hall and protests and demonstrations. Like I was basically

856
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: desperate to learn how to photograph because I never went

857
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: to school, you know. I was just kind of like

858
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: street smart. I never studied photography. So I was learning.

859
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: I had great mentors. And then I moved overseas again

860
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: in two thousand when I moved to India, and at

861
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: that point I started working in Afghanistan under the Taliban,

862
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: and it was kind of there that I realized, like, wow,

863
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: the role of a photographer is incredibly important for understanding

864
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: what a culture is like and for sort of dispelling

865
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: misconceptions about a place. And so at that point I

866
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: knew I wanted to work more and more overseas, and

867
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: then September eleventh happened, and that was it. Like I

868
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: was on the first plane from Mexico City, where I

869
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: then was living, to Pakistan to cover the war right away,

870
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: right away, Like I think it took five days is

871
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: to open the airspace. I think on like the fifteenth

872
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: or seventeenth of September, I flew to New York, picked

873
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: up a digital camera and went to Pakistan. But the

874
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: cool thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but

875
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure like when you were there in India,

876
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: you were already you had already laid the groundwork, like

877
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: you were shooting women's stories, Women of the Taliban. Women

878
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: of the Taliban was something that Linn's was covering before

879
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and so that when this happened, she

880
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: already had laid the groundwork. She already had an inn

881
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 1: there and could go back and knew fixers and knew

882
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: this landscape that no one else really knew like she did.

883
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: And as a woman, you have a different you know,

884
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: you definitely have a leg up and a perspective as

885
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: a woman photographer capturing that world and you know, you

886
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: had already done that, and so that's what I remember

887
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: right after nine to eleven. I mean, it didn't take long.

888
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: You had like the cover of the New York Times

889
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: magazine was like Women of the Taliban, and because you

890
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: had already done that, you know, yeah, So like did

891
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: you start to immediately go like, Okay, this is what

892
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: I've been working towards. Yes, Like, yes, that is like

893
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: a heightened sense of danger and all of that. It

894
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: wasn't the danger that attracted me. What I loved was

895
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: being in the middle of history in the making. Like

896
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: I loved being on the front lines of something as

897
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: it was evolving and being responsible for covering that and

898
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: documenting it, and those pictures would be sent home through

899
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: the New York Times or whoever I was working with,

900
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: and would inform the public. Like to me, it was

901
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: such an incredible honor and like an incredible job to

902
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: be able to be there firsthand witness and then like

903
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: those images were the ones that like policymakers and presidents

904
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: would see. Did you ever get any pushback from your

905
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: family ever? Like what are you doing? We're nervous for you?

906
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: Are you sure? I mean when I first started, no,

907
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: one in my family really read the New York Times

908
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: luck you know, the hair dressers. You know, like we

909
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: didn't have like the most intellectual upbringing. So you know,

910
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: when I first started, I kind of trusted that no

911
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: one really knew what I was doing. I kind of

912
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: wasn't giving that much information. Like I remember the first

913
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: trip I made Afghanistan before September eleventh, I called Lee

914
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: to borrow money. So I was like, Lee, I don't

915
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: have any money in the bank and I want to

916
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: go to Afghanistan. Who's like, I said, will you lend

917
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: me three thousand dollars? And She's like, yeah, sure. She

918
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: wired me the money to go to Afghanistan for my

919
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: first trip. And I called my mom and I was like, Mom,

920
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to Afghanistan tomorrow. And she was like, okay, honey,

921
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: you have a good tips because she didn't no idea

922
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: like what Afghanistan was. So it's like for most like

923
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 1: until I think I got kidnapped for the first time,

924
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: my parents like they kind of knew what I was doing,

925
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: but they basically just lived in denial. I think they

926
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: just were like, oh, she'll be fine, you know, yeah,

927
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: mom has good practice and living in denial. Yeah, it

928
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: was apart from the course. Yeah, wow, yeah, when did

929
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: you When were you in Iraq? Two thousand and three

930
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: and four? So I went to Iraq before the war,

931
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 1: so we were kind of anticipating the war was about

932
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: to happen, and so the New York Times magazine sent

933
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: me with Elizabeth Rubin, who was a writer, and I

934
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: met her. I flew to Iran, and Iran was letting

935
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: journalists basically go through Iran to travel into northern Iraq

936
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: without visas. So it was like this whole system where

937
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: all these journalists basically funneled into northern Iraq because Saddam

938
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: Hussein wasn't giving journalists visas like that easily. So I

939
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: flew into Iran, drove to the flew to the border,

940
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: and then drove into northern Iraq in February of two

941
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: thousand and three and basically waited for Saddam Husse to

942
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: fall because there was no way out. We didn't have

943
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: another visa back to Iran, and we didn't have a

944
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: visa legally down to southern Iraq, so we were just

945
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: sitting in like Kurdistan in the northern region, waiting for

946
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: Saddam de Faull Waiting for the War. You said to

947
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: me when we were chatting once that it's so interesting

948
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: because people never unless you're there, you don't never really

949
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: understand how incredible the culture is, that there was this

950
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: great movement of art. And yeah, I think that's sort

951
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: of the tragedy of war journalism is that we don't

952
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,959
Speaker 1: often show the unbelievable beauty that we witness. And also

953
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: like the hospitality and the culture, and like the people

954
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: are so amazing and so much fun, and their sense

955
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: of humor is like super dark and hilarious and like

956
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: you're always having fun with like your fix Like literally,

957
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: when Saddam fell, our main concern was that our fixer,

958
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: who we had worked with for two years, the like

959
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: I guess you would say a producer, all he wanted

960
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: to do was lose his virginity because he heard the

961
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: prostitutes in Baghdad were so hot and so cool that

962
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: all he can think about was having sex for the

963
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: first time. And we're like, wait, Saddam has just fallen,

964
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,439
Speaker 1: Like we have to get to Bagdad and he's like, oh,

965
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: I just I just want to kiss a woman, you know.

966
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: It's like so it's like there are these little like

967
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: side scenes that are hilarious and like the art and

968
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: the culture and the music. Like we just witnessed the

969
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: most incredible things. But when you look at what comes

970
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: out of a war, it's always like the bombing and

971
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: the death and the and the you know, sort of

972
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: the negative thing. So there's there's like a whole parallel

973
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: universe going on. Yeah, I like the underground weddings are amazing. Yeah, yeah,

974
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: like all that stuff. I mean, there's just like great music.

975
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: We stop and we smoke. Sheisha were having these great

976
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern meals, like people invite us to their homes.

977
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: Like there's so much great stuff that goes on. Now,

978
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: how old were you when you were kidnapped the first

979
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: time in Iraq? I was that was two thousand and four,

980
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: April of two thousand and four, I was thirty one thirty.

981
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: I was thirty and take us through a little band

982
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: how that happened. So we were in Baghdad and things

983
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: were getting sort of worse and worse by the day.

984
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: But because I had basically been in Iraq for a year,

985
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: I had lost like all sense of fear, Like I

986
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: was basically like crazy, you know, I would like you know,

987
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: a bomb would go off and I would me and

988
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: my driver like kiss would jump in the car and

989
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: go directly toward like burning flames and black smoke everywhere.

990
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: And we had to take an armed guard with us

991
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: at that point, like that was the requirement. And so

992
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: like we'd get to the place and I'd jump out

993
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: of the car to take pictures and would turn around

994
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: and my armed would be like cowering in the car

995
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: clutching his gun, and I'd be on the street, Like

996
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: I was like crazy at that point. So, like we

997
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: heard that an American helicopter had gone down and with

998
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of marines, and so we wanted to investigate

999
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: it to see if it actually happened, because when you're

1000
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: working in war zones, like literally the only way to

1001
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: know is to go there and to check it out.

1002
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: And so we went. We I was working with a colleague,

1003
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gettlelman, and we kind of like made a bunch

1004
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: of phone calls to figure out the best route toward

1005
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: where we thought this helicopter went down. And it was

1006
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: right before the Siege of Falluja, So this was like

1007
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: a really this was an area that was just full

1008
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: of insurgents. It was like known to be anti American,

1009
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: anti like coalition, and so it was a really dangerous area.

1010
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: So we decided to take the smuggler's route because the

1011
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: main road was closed by the Marines, and so we

1012
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: took the road. I was dressed like fully like an Arab,

1013
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: like I had black a bay, a black headscarf, everything,

1014
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: and Jeffrey is, like, you know, looked like he was

1015
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: like very American looking, and so we drove toward and

1016
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: basically as we got closer and closer, we realized like

1017
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: our driver's kind of our driver and translator kind of

1018
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: went silent, and we were like, what's up. And we

1019
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: started seeing like men in black with guns, and we

1020
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: knew it was like too late. We rounded the corner

1021
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: and there were like thirty men faces wrapped in cafeas

1022
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: rockets on their backs, kalashnikoff shooting in the air, shooting

1023
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: the rockets in the air, like basically like they caught us,

1024
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: and we were all ripped out of the car. First

1025
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: the men were pulled out of the car, and then

1026
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: I threw my headscarf over Jeffrey's head because I thought,

1027
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy looks so American. I'm going

1028
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: to cover him. And then eventually they came to get

1029
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: him and pulled him out of the car. And at

1030
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 1: that point I kind of made a calcul and I thought,

1031
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: if they take like an American, an American Jew in Fallujah,

1032
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: he'll be dead in like five hours. So I then

1033
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: decided I was going to say he was my husband.

1034
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: So I jumped out of the car and my full

1035
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: hit job and like ran after him and put my

1036
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: arm through his and said like this is my husband.

1037
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: And they were like, oh my god, like who is

1038
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: this woman? Like is she Iraqi? Like like what is

1039
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: she doing? Like jumping out of the car, and I

1040
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: just like then we were transferred to another vehicle and

1041
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: basically held for like eight hours probably total. Questioned had

1042
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: guns to our head the whole time, are you spies?

1043
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: Are you with the coalition? Do you work with the military?

1044
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: Where are you from? And luckily we had all decided

1045
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: before it happened that we would say if anything happened.

1046
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: I was Italian and he was Greek, and so we

1047
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: kind of stuck to that, and it went on for hours.

1048
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: We were at one point let go, but the guy

1049
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: that we were handed over or two decided not to

1050
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: release us and took us back into captivity, into someone

1051
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: else's house. At that point, it was just like it

1052
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: was getting darker. It was pretty terrifying. I mean, every

1053
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: the thing about being kidnapped is that you don't ever

1054
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: know if you'll live, Like every second determines your fate,

1055
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: and everything you say can have an effect, and everything

1056
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: the way you act has an effect on whether you survive.

1057
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: And so it was just terrifying really until the end.

1058
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: And then finally, luckily the second like safe house that

1059
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: we were brought to, or the second sort of house

1060
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: where we were like held captive, the owner of the

1061
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: house was like, do you want to meet my wife

1062
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: and kids, because like that's what women do in that

1063
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: part of the world. And I was like yeah, So

1064
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: I went inside the house while we were being held captive,

1065
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: had like a cup of tea with his wife and

1066
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: was like, you know, talking to his kids in my

1067
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: ridiculous Arabic and and I guess he kind of like

1068
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: warmed up to us. And so when an urgent came

1069
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: back and said he wanted to like take us away,

1070
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: he wouldn't let them, and he got in like a

1071
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: big fight with them and we're watching this through the

1072
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: window and we were like, we're dead, We're dead, We're dead.

1073
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: And he basically ordered us to lie like get back

1074
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: in our car and he told me to lie down

1075
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: on the floor of the car and he drove us

1076
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: out of the village and basically saved our lives. Like

1077
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: that was just super lucky. Yeah, you answered my question

1078
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: because I was thinking, I was wondering. I was going

1079
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: to ask, is there any humanity in all of this?

1080
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: Did you see humanity behind their eyes? And once you

1081
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: got to you know, but I guess you did. I

1082
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: mean there's always someone which is really interesting, Like in Libya,

1083
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 1: even in like the dark. I mean, Libya was much

1084
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: much tougher, you know, Libya, we were held captive for

1085
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: a week. It was very violent. It was brutal. I

1086
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: mean we were tied up, blindfolded, beaten up, threatened with

1087
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 1: execution almost daily, and really did not like I really

1088
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: had no idea whether we would make it out until

1089
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: literally we drove into Tunisia and there was like there

1090
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: were some really dark moments where like, you know, every

1091
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: time basically they transferred us to a new location, we

1092
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 1: were beaten all over again because we were usually handed

1093
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: over to a new commander, and that person wanted to

1094
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: sort of assert his power, and so like, you know,

1095
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: there was one moment where we were kind of thrown

1096
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: into the back of this military tank and we were

1097
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: blindfolded and tied up, and we were kind of all

1098
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: just like really terrified, and there was a guy, you know,

1099
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: there was a guy kind of like spooning me, a

1100
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: military guy and being very sort of aggressively, you know,

1101
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: touching me and I and I was crying, but I

1102
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, I was just saying, I was just crying,

1103
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: and I was saying, and we're all in the tank

1104
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: like side by side, you know, and while I'm being touched,

1105
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: I can hear my male colleagues Tyler, Anthony, Steve getting beaten,

1106
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: and we're all kind of like leading, but no one's

1107
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: yelling because we know that we have to be kind

1108
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: of calm about it. And so I just was like

1109
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: crying and saying, you know, I have a husband, this

1110
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: is hot onm you know, this isn't Islamic. You know,

1111
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: don't touch me, Please, don't touch me, you know, And

1112
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 1: suddenly one of the other soldiers like basically bear hugged

1113
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: me and tried to pull me away from the guy

1114
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: who was touching me, and so it became like a

1115
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: tug of war like I was. Basically there was the

1116
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: guy who wouldn't stop touching me, and then another guy

1117
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: who was just like pulling me away from his like comrade. Basically, Wow, yeah,

1118
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: super intense. Yeah, that's just crazy time. I mean, at

1119
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: what point where do you go? I mean there is

1120
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: there is there another level that the human condition sort

1121
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: of goes to in order in a for survival. I mean, yeah,

1122
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Yeah. Actually, I mean the human mind is incredible,

1123
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: and I think that's the thing that people underestimate, is

1124
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: like power of the mind. You know, like I'm very lucky.

1125
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: When things happen to me, I don't freak out. I

1126
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: actually go into like a very calm zen place where

1127
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: I just say like, Okay, this is totally out of

1128
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: my control. And it's like it's funny because in life

1129
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: we're like, you know, Kate, I'm sure you're the same, Lee,

1130
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: I know you're the same. It's like, you know, we're

1131
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: women who take control and we make all these decisions

1132
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: and we're like doing all these things. But it's like,

1133
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: actually it's the one moment in your life where you

1134
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,000
Speaker 1: can't make any decisions and you just like shut your

1135
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: mouth and you do what you're told and that's it.

1136
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I go to a very

1137
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: kind of zen place and I just say, Okay, I

1138
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: have to stay alive, Like I just have to get

1139
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: through this minute and the next minute and the next minute.

1140
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: And if I get punched in the face, you know what,

1141
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: that sucks, But it's not the it's not like the

1142
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: worst thing that can happen. And like, of course, the

1143
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: whole time, I'm just hoping I don't get raped. And

1144
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: I was really lucky because I didn't. And that was

1145
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: like the big fear that I had, Yeah, because because

1146
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,919
Speaker 1: essentially if that, if that's going to go down, there's

1147
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: nothing you can do about it. No, I mean nothing,

1148
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: that's just on another level at least, what when this happens?

1149
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: Like where are you at with all this? I mean,

1150
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: we're well. I was getting phone calls from the editor

1151
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: at the New York Times, Like I got called in

1152
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: the middle of the night being like you're the number

1153
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: that you know we've been given and I just want

1154
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: to be in constant contact with you, and so this

1155
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: happened for like the whole week that Lind's was gone.

1156
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: We would get like daily kind of briefings like we

1157
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: don't know their location, and then on and then it

1158
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: was like the fourth day, maybe they're like, we have

1159
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: their location. We know they've been moved to a safe house.

1160
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: They're here, and so but for the longest time, they

1161
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: didn't even have any idea where they were, you know,

1162
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: and so that was just I mean, we had no

1163
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: more news than you know, the Republic had, and so

1164
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: that was really you know that, but what's going through

1165
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: your head? You know? I mean, are you like she's strong,

1166
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: she's going to survive all this, or are you where

1167
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: is your head? Yeah? I mean I guess, Look, we

1168
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: all know that Lindza's smart and tough and she's doing

1169
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: what she loves no matter what she's like, you know,

1170
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: there's like a certain part of that that's just a fact,

1171
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: and there's nothing and we kind of surrender like there's

1172
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: nothing again, like almost Linda's mindset when she's kidnapped. That's

1173
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: kind of like what you have to do here, you know,

1174
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: and it's like there's nothing really that we could have done.

1175
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: But we were just kind of keeping on top of things,

1176
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: and we our kids were like watching the news with us,

1177
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, and Paul seeing Paul on CNN like pleading

1178
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: for Lindsa's life, and you know, it was really, you know,

1179
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: it was hard. We were all calling each other, all

1180
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 1: the sisters were each other like pretty much several times

1181
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: a day, kind of like supporting each other, getting whatever

1182
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: information we had. But until we got word that she

1183
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: was like, oh, there was nothing, you know, it was

1184
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's crazy, it's scary, but again, you're you're

1185
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: in a place where nothing you could do really does anything.

1186
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: You know, you just have to hope and just hope

1187
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: that it works out and that she That's when Leith,

1188
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: Lindsay's husband was like, Nope, no more. He went on

1189
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: CNN and publicly announced that he was basically going to

1190
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: get me pregnant if I was alive, and all my

1191
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: friends were like, she is going to kick your ass

1192
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: if she's alive. Oh my god, I can't believe you

1193
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: just announced you're going to like get her pregnant. Amazing.

1194
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: The first three days we went missing, Kadaffi did not

1195
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: admit to having us, so basically everyone thought we might

1196
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: have been dead because they didn't say we have them

1197
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: in captivity. And so I remember on the fourth day,

1198
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: the Libyan military transferred us to Tripoli and it was

1199
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: this like horrific journey where we were like beaten up

1200
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: and tied to the walls of the plane. It was

1201
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: like really really rough. And then we got to this

1202
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: kind of like vip prison. We think it was on

1203
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: a military base, but we don't really know. And they

1204
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: took off our blindfolds and were sitting in this room

1205
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: and there's a TV in the corner, and so Anthony

1206
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: Shadid who later died in Syria, sadly, he was smart.

1207
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: He took the remote control while all of the Libyan

1208
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: like men who were kind of telling us that they

1209
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: would no longer hurt us and they were with the

1210
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: government of Libya and were in safe hands. And you know,

1211
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: Anthony went to the corner of the room and changed

1212
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: the channel to CNN and the TV was behind them,

1213
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 1: and it was our photographs on the TV saying like

1214
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 1: the Libyan government cannot ascertain the whereabouts of these journalists,

1215
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: basically saying like they still hadn't admitted to having us,

1216
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: and we're sitting with the Libyan government and so I

1217
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: started crying and saying like, don't you have children, don't

1218
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: you understand, Just let us call our families. And they

1219
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: were like, madam, stop crying, Madam, madam, madam, stop crying.

1220
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: And then it was that night that they woke us

1221
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night and said, okay,

1222
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: you each get one phone call. And that was it.

1223
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: That's when we were able to like at least tell

1224
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 1: our families and editors that we were alive and what

1225
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 1: was your phone call? So I couldn't remember Paul's phone number.

1226
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: So I couldn't remember Paul's phone number. I knew that

1227
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: my mother would never find her phone on time, like

1228
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 1: she could never find it like ever, and my dad

1229
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: doesn't answer his phone, and so I just so then

1230
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: basically all of the men I was with either had

1231
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 1: newborns or were engaged, and so they all were like,

1232
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna call her girlfriends. And so they were like,

1233
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: you can call the New York Times, And so I

1234
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: had to call the foreign editor of the New York

1235
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: Times and they're like, Susan. It was Susan Shira, and

1236
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: I've know's She was so fabulous. She was like and literally,

1237
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: I have a guy like breathing on my neck. I'm

1238
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: blindfolded and it's literally like a movie. I mean, I'm blindfolded,

1239
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: the guy is holding the receiver to my ear and

1240
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: I can feel him like breathing on me because he

1241
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: wanted me to know that, like everything I said, he

1242
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: was right there. And so she was like, Susan, I'm like,

1243
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: we're being treated great and we're alive. Can you tell

1244
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: my husband I love him? She was like, yeah, what

1245
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: did what did you eat? What did they feed you?

1246
01:11:56,439 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: It was so annoying. The first three days we were

1247
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: like being shuttled around the front line. So I didn't

1248
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 1: want to eat anything because I didn't want to have

1249
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: to pee because or go to the bathroom because I

1250
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 1: was the only woman, and so I was terrified that

1251
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: if I broke away, I would get raped. And so

1252
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 1: basically I just didn't eat. Like I'd have like a

1253
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 1: sip of juice or like a sip of water, but

1254
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 1: very very little. Then they put us in a prison cell,

1255
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: the four of us in one cell together and like

1256
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: the mattress, it was disgusting, and there was like a

1257
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: bottle with the There was one bottle filled like halfway

1258
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: with piss. In the corner and so that was our toilet,

1259
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 1: like that's where all the men like Anthony, Steve and

1260
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: Tyler were going to the bathroom. And that night they

1261
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: brought us like a big plate of rice and I

1262
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: was like, no, dice, like I'm not eating that, you know.

1263
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: And then the next day we were transferred to Tripoli

1264
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 1: and put in that like apartment, and when we got there,

1265
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: those officials, so same officials who were like trying to

1266
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: tell us we were in like the hands of the

1267
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 1: being government. They were like, we're gonna buy you a

1268
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: few things to have while you're here, like toothbrush, a

1269
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 1: hair brush, you know. And then one of the men

1270
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 1: who spoke English like leaned over to me and he's

1271
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: like do you need feminine things? And I was like great.

1272
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: You just like beat the shit out of me, groped me,

1273
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: threatened me with execution for last day three days, and

1274
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,799
Speaker 1: now you want to buy me tampons? Like what crazy?

1275
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 1: You know? And then we were like no, no, we

1276
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 1: don't need anything. We just need coffee, you know. We

1277
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: basically all just asked for coffee. They came back with

1278
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: like thirty five grocery bags of like everything you can

1279
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: think of and we were like, we're never leaving lib

1280
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:45,680
Speaker 1: beyond yeah, like basically, so they just like stuffed us

1281
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: with food for the next like three four days. Oh wow, yeah,

1282
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: wow god. Yeah. Didn't you guys have a book of

1283
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: Shakespeare's plays? There were four? Yeah, there were three or

1284
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: four Shakespeare books. And of course Stephen Ferrell, who was

1285
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,759
Speaker 1: like English Irish, had read, had like memorized all the books,

1286
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:10,719
Speaker 1: and the Americans were like what and so except Anthony,

1287
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: who was like a genius. But I tried with all

1288
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: my heart for three straight days to get through like

1289
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: the first sentence, and I just couldn't even read. I

1290
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: was like all I could do was sleep basically. And

1291
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 1: Anthony passed in Syria. Yeah, he had an allergy attack

1292
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: in Syria, being he was smuggled in in the beginning

1293
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: of the war like a year after Libya, and on

1294
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: his way out he had an allergic reaction to the

1295
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: horses that were carrying their gear out of Syria. Oh,

1296
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: died in the asthma. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my gosh,

1297
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: it's oh my god. And he was like the most

1298
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: brilliant writer, you know. He was half American, half Lebanese,

1299
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 1: like understood the Middle East. Was the most beautiful writer,

1300
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: such a good guy. One like I don't you know

1301
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: one a few Pulitzers, was like he just had a

1302
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 1: new sun. Like it was the most tragic thing ever.

1303
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: And he's allergic. Was allergic to horses? Was yes, and

1304
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 1: it was never that bad. You know, allergies change over time,

1305
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: and so you can be allergic. But then one day

1306
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 1: you go into cardiac arret. You know, one day you

1307
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: go into anaphylactic shock, and yeah, that happened. Jesus when

1308
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: you found out that you were going to be released?

1309
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 1: Did that happen? Did they tell you or what did?

1310
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 1: It was so weird No, basically, So we were staying

1311
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: this like in this like weird apartment with bars on

1312
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 1: the windows, and they said, like if you open the shade,

1313
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: we'll shoot you. And so we just were like sit

1314
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 1: in this apartment day and night and try and entertain

1315
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 1: ourselves for like three days, like wondering if we were

1316
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: ever going to get released. At one point we were

1317
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: thrown into the back of a car, like blindfolded, driven

1318
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: like two hundred miles an hour, taken our blindfold off

1319
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,679
Speaker 1: and our New York Times colleague David Kirkpatrick was sitting

1320
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: across from us, not kidnapped, in like a government office

1321
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 1: in Tripoli and they were negotiating our release. He was

1322
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 1: basically like, oh, so, who needs passports? And they were

1323
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like who actually needs passports to

1324
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: get into Tunisia if we were released, right, I actually

1325
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: had a passport in my underwear for eight days with

1326
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars that no one ever found. Wow. Yeah,

1327
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 1: so but anyway, so then we were brought back to

1328
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,600
Speaker 1: captivity because the State Department wouldn't meet the demands of

1329
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 1: the Libyan government. So then the no fly zone was

1330
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: implemented and we were sure we would never get out

1331
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: because there was no bargaining chip. And then two days

1332
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: later they came to get us at like seven at

1333
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: night and they were like get all your stuff, blindfolded

1334
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: us again, roots in the back of a car, drove

1335
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 1: two hundred miles an hour, and like suddenly put us

1336
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: in like I as the only woman, was always put apart,

1337
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: but put in these like really nice I think diplomatic

1338
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: residences and weren't told anything and just they just like

1339
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: left us there. So we like took shower. I like

1340
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't talk to my colleagues, you know. And the

1341
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: next morning there was a knock on the door and

1342
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: they were like, come downstairs, get dressed. They gave Steve

1343
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: a new pair of pants because they had ripped his

1344
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 1: pants and they said, look nice and get dressed. And

1345
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: they brought us downstairs and there were like forty TV

1346
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: cameras and they sat us down. Basically, they were like

1347
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: they were putting us like in front of the TV cameras.

1348
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: And right as I was about to sit down, this

1349
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: Turkish diplomat came to me and handed me his cell

1350
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 1: phone and I was like hello, and it was my

1351
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 1: husband on the other line, and I was like, what

1352
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: is going on? And Paul said, baby, you're getting released.

1353
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: And I was like what. And Paul had been the

1354
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: beer chief for Turkey for Reuters in Turkey, and so

1355
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: he had really great connections in Turkey. And he's like,

1356
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 1: you're getting released. Do you have your passport? And I

1357
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: was like, well, it was in my underwear, but I

1358
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: just gave it to the Libyans because I finally got

1359
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: nervous they would find it. And you know, he's like,

1360
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 1: you have a passport and I was like, they said

1361
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: they're going to give it back. And that was it.

1362
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: And then we sat down and there were all these

1363
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: TV cameras and the Libyan government was like, we are

1364
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: releasing these journalists and we're gonna give each one of

1365
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: them five thousand dollars for their hardship. And they went

1366
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 1: to give me money and I was like, oh no,

1367
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:39,840
Speaker 1: my money's been in my underwear. No one stole my money.

1368
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:41,600
Speaker 1: And Anthony should He looked at me and was like,

1369
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: they stole forty thousand dollars worth of camera gear, beat

1370
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: the shit out of you, groped you, and you're not

1371
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: taking five thousand dollars. I was like, oh no. And

1372
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 1: then we got then like you know, then it was

1373
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 1: the journey of like trying to get back out to

1374
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: the border because there was fighting all the way from

1375
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: Tripley to the Tunisian border, so we had to then

1376
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: drive through the war to get out. Oh my gosh, Lindsey,

1377
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: yeah the story. Yeah, then she got pregnant then like yeah,

1378
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: like you know, okay, so then what was your first

1379
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 1: call after Paul? So no, So then we crossed into

1380
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: Tunisia and we were all kind of shell shocked. I mean,

1381
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 1: we were all like really just like like no one

1382
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: really was speaking, like we're all kind of like fuck.

1383
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 1: We crossed into Tunisia and there were these security guards

1384
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: the New York Times had sent to meet us to

1385
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 1: basically like give us our passports. They gave all the men,

1386
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: all the guys like a six month like or a

1387
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: two month temporary American passport that the State Department issues

1388
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 1: in emergencies. I had my passport, and they took us

1389
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: to like a Walmart, like a giant like, you know,

1390
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: and they had money for us, and they were like, Okay,

1391
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: buy whatever you need. And we were basically like a

1392
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: bunch of kids like in a candy store. We were

1393
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: like underwear like we could get you Like, we were like,

1394
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 1: oh my god, we could get this and candy and

1395
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, so we got like all this stuff. And

1396
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: then they took us to a hotel in Jerba, which

1397
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: is near the Tunisian border, but it's like a tourist

1398
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 1: like a resort, and it was a Radisson Blue. So

1399
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: they checked us all into the Radison Blue and immediately

1400
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 1: they had a doctor waiting there to like each one

1401
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: of us had to go get like kind of debriefed,

1402
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 1: and she was like you know basically, were you raped,

1403
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: what happened? You have any physical scars? Are you having

1404
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,839
Speaker 1: trouble sleeping? How is your mental state? And they wouldn't

1405
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: let our family, our husband, our partners meet us there.

1406
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 1: They wanted twenty four hours with us alone first to

1407
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: make sure we were okay, and then they flew us

1408
01:20:52,560 --> 01:21:00,560
Speaker 1: to Triple to Tunis. So that was it. No. The

1409
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 1: first thing I did, I can't believe I'm saying this publicly.

1410
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: I got a bikini waxis in Tunis. The first thing

1411
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 1: I did. I was like, I can't really see my

1412
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,759
Speaker 1: husband looking like this. I look like like a gorilla.

1413
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: I got. That's awesome. Yeah, it was like, I love you, baby,

1414
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 1: was incredibly emotional for you. With him, I mean that

1415
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: must have been a life Yeah, I mean yeah, it

1416
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: was hard. I think, you know, I think he's so

1417
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: like Swedish and English, like he's very reserved. Like i've

1418
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 1: seen him cry. I think once maybe he shed one

1419
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: tear in that moment, like when we first saw each other.

1420
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: The only time I've seen him cry was when Lucas

1421
01:21:55,120 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: graduated from like nursery school. He's he's like I think

1422
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: he felt like he needed to be strong for me,

1423
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: and I was so kind of shell shocked that like

1424
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 1: it took a while. I think the first time I

1425
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: cried was when I called Lauren, our older sister, and

1426
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: to say I was like out, and then when I

1427
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: called U Lee, Like I think when I called my

1428
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 1: sisters is when I really lost it. And my parents,

1429
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: it's like, but with Paul, I think because he was

1430
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: a journalist and like we were in like kind of

1431
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: operational mode, you know what I mean. But with family

1432
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: it's different, you know. So, yeah, when did you find

1433
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: out that Lindsay was actually alive? I guess it was

1434
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 1: like that, it's kind of a blur. I think it

1435
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: was like the day after she was released and when

1436
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: you had called Laura and you know, yeah, it was

1437
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: all like that that next day after you were released

1438
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: and you could talk to us, and like I said,

1439
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: it was just like we heard her voice and just

1440
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 1: started crying and we're all and in the meantime, you

1441
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 1: just wait. I mean, it's like what you said, there's

1442
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 1: nothing much you can do, so it's just I guess

1443
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:11,600
Speaker 1: you just wait. Yeah, it was, and we were just

1444
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 1: getting tons of phone calls, Like I remember getting phone

1445
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 1: calls from all of you know, our mutual friends who

1446
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: were in LA and you know, just friends who had

1447
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: seen it on the news, and so our phone was

1448
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 1: ringing like pretty much off the hook, being like have

1449
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: you heard anything, and you know, we were all just

1450
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: kind of like sitting tight and waiting to hear what

1451
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:34,599
Speaker 1: was going to happen. At least you had kids at

1452
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: this point, right, Yeah, yeah, I had howled were the kids?

1453
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: So it was twenty eleven, So Lou, they were eleven

1454
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 1: and they were ten and eleven. Were they aware of

1455
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: aunt be? I mean, yeah, fully, yeah there? What was there?

1456
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: What was their reaction to all of it? They were like,

1457
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, they were watching the news with us, and

1458
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: it was kind kind of like a play by play.

1459
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 1: They were with us through the whole thing, Like pretty much,

1460
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 1: we don't really keep anything from our kids, and we

1461
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 1: go because we're always home and we go through everything

1462
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: with them. And so they they were old enough to

1463
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: understand what was happening because they were eleven and ten,

1464
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: so it's not like they were toddlers. So you know,

1465
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: it was almost like watching a sporting event weirdly, you know,

1466
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: like we were just like waiting to see what happened.

1467
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: Who won? You know, and then it was like cheering

1468
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: and a big celebration and you know, yeah, well we

1469
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,599
Speaker 1: we sort of jumped into the middle of it. I'm

1470
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: just so curious as to in Libya how you got captured,

1471
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 1: Like how did that happen? You explain a raq, but

1472
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, what was that? So Libya, we I was

1473
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: covering sort of the front line really intensely for about

1474
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 1: two weeks and there was really really heavy fighting NonStop.

1475
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: It was relentless. And so basically what that means for

1476
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't cover war is that in Libya, the

1477
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,679
Speaker 1: front line was like one paved road that went from

1478
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: Tripoli all the way to Benghazi, which was in eastern Libya,

1479
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 1: and Kadaffi's troops were coming from the west and the

1480
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: rebels were going from the east, and they would just

1481
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: push back and forth, back and forth, and like some

1482
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 1: days Kadaffi's troops would gain ground and some days the

1483
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: rebels would gain ground, and you know, people would die,

1484
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,799
Speaker 1: like every day, there were just like tons of wounded

1485
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: and dead, and so as journalists we were kind of

1486
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 1: right up with the rebels and kind of covering the

1487
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:45,759
Speaker 1: combat from their angle. And on the day we were kidnapped.

1488
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 1: It was March fifteenth, and we knew that the town

1489
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 1: that we were working in it was called Ajdabiya. We

1490
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 1: knew that it was going to fall to Kadaffi's forces

1491
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 1: because the troops were gaining ground quickly. The mortar rounds

1492
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 1: were like really zeroing in on our positions, and all

1493
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 1: of the civilians were fleeing. It was the first time

1494
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: we actually saw like Libyan civilians leaving the village, and

1495
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: so we knew. But you know, as journalists, we also

1496
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 1: want to cover the fighting and cover sort of what's happening.

1497
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 1: And so we were in two cars. That's a precaution

1498
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 1: we take to make sure that if one car breaks down,

1499
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: we have a backup car. And it was me and

1500
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 1: Tyler Hicks in one car and Anthony and Steve Ferrell

1501
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 1: in another car. And basically Anthony and Steve's driver's brother

1502
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 1: was shot at the front line. Because all of the

1503
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: guys who were driving us and working with us, of course,

1504
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 1: they were also part of sort of the rebellion, like

1505
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 1: they wanted journalists to tell their story of the uprising,

1506
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 1: so they stayed to work with us. And it was

1507
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:51,639
Speaker 1: very very dangerous, of course, and so their driver quit.

1508
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: We all ended up in one car, and basically we

1509
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:57,719
Speaker 1: stayed too long at the front line, like we should

1510
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: have left before we did, and we stayed covering the

1511
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: fighting too long. By the time we drove east toward Benghazi,

1512
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 1: like fleeing from Kadaffi's troops, they had flanked the desert,

1513
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 1: so rather than come from behind us, which we thought

1514
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 1: we were in front of them, they cut the road.

1515
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 1: They went all the way around the desert, cut the

1516
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 1: road and put a checkpoint in front of us. So

1517
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 1: we drove right into one of Kadafi's checkpoints and it

1518
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: was super violent, like basically the minute we drove up

1519
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 1: to them, they were screaming and waving their guns at us,

1520
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 1: and the rebels we were covering started opening fire on

1521
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 1: the checkpoint, knowing that Kadafi's troops were there, and we

1522
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 1: were caught like basically in a wall of bullets, and

1523
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: all of the men were pulled out of the car

1524
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 1: just like Iraq like they never really know what to

1525
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: do with a woman in that situation, and so I

1526
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 1: was left in the car. The car was not armored,

1527
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:52,600
Speaker 1: so I knew that I had to get out of

1528
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:58,160
Speaker 1: the car because bullets were everywhere, and so I can

1529
01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 1: see through the window all of my mail call leagues

1530
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,560
Speaker 1: like struggling, you know. And I finally crawled out the

1531
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: back seat to the right hand side and was going

1532
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 1: to make a run for it for this like cement building,

1533
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: because basically we just had to get out of the

1534
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: bullets before we can even negotiate like staying alive. And

1535
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 1: one of Kadafi's troops like came up to me and

1536
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 1: started grabbing at my cameras, and I like, very stupidly

1537
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 1: but instinctively started pulling back. So I'm like having a

1538
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: fight with this stupid soldier with bullets everywhere. And finally

1539
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: I was like what am I doing? And I like

1540
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:31,560
Speaker 1: let go my cameras and made a run for it

1541
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 1: and got to that like the other side of that

1542
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 1: cement building right away. We were told to lie face

1543
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 1: down in the dirt execution style. They were like, give

1544
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: us your passports. We knew we understand Joaz's past passport

1545
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:47,519
Speaker 1: in Arabic, so they were like, oh, you understand Arabic.

1546
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 1: Your spies, your spies, like get down on the ground,

1547
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 1: face down. They took my shoes off my feet. I

1548
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 1: was wearing these like Nike trainers, and they took off

1549
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 1: my shoes and took my shoelaces and tied me up,

1550
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: tied my arms behind my back and my ankles together,

1551
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: and at that moment, we were in a line, face down,

1552
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:10,600
Speaker 1: and they just each put a gun to the like

1553
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 1: to our forehead, and we're about to execute us. And

1554
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 1: literally there was a moment where I looked to the

1555
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: right and it was like Anthony Steve Tyler, all of

1556
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: us begging, like begging for our lives, like with a gun,

1557
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 1: like like staring down the barrel of a gun. And

1558
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 1: they at that point, the commander came over and said,

1559
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: you can't kill them. They're American, and we have no

1560
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 1: idea why he said that, but I guess like he

1561
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 1: just decided it would cause too much backlash, and so

1562
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 1: they didn't kill us, obviously, and instead they had tied

1563
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:43,639
Speaker 1: me up. They took us and put us in vehicles

1564
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: on the front line and basically laughed it up, like

1565
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,639
Speaker 1: made us sit there while like bullets and bombs were

1566
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 1: like raining around us and kept us there for hours

1567
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 1: and then it just went on from there. Christ Yeah, man, Yeah,

1568
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:06,720
Speaker 1: I was tough. Where was I in two party? Yeah,

1569
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 1: he was like at the skybar sky Crystal, and no,

1570
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 1: I was literally I was literally doing a sitcom called

1571
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: Rules of Engagement and having my second child. Yeah. I

1572
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: literally every time Linds comes home for Christmas or for

1573
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: any holiday, it's like she comes back and we're all

1574
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 1: having dinner around the table and we're like, we're writing

1575
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: surfs up about surfing penguins, you know, and Linz is

1576
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 1: like talking about you know, being in Iraq and Women

1577
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 1: of the Taliban, and we're like surfing penguins, Like, hey,

1578
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 1: it's all important you You work with your husband though, right,

1579
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: and you guys have worked together for ever forever? Yeah,

1580
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:00,919
Speaker 1: still do. Yeah, we're we're writing partners, writing directing partners,

1581
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 1: and that's all we've ever known. That's touch about great. Well,

1582
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: you know, how's that war zone? Oh my god? And

1583
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,160
Speaker 1: like I said, everyone is like I would kill my

1584
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 1: spouse if I had to work with them. But we've

1585
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: been doing it since college, so it's like we don't

1586
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: know any different. So it's not like we had worked

1587
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 1: separately and then we're you know, thrown together, so we

1588
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of figured it out as we went along. So

1589
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: it's not it's great, but you've got to have moments

1590
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 1: of like, Babe, this scene is fucking doesn't long in here,

1591
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: you know, Like do we have to take it out?

1592
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:35,600
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, this is what it needs to be.

1593
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 1: We don't fight that much, especially now. It's kind of

1594
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: like especially because we have ones that are like our

1595
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 1: babies that we write and direct ourselves, and then we

1596
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 1: have ones for studios. And it's never worth a fight

1597
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 1: for a studio movie. It's never because there's going to

1598
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:56,719
Speaker 1: be you know, a million yeah, and a million notes

1599
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 1: and a million writers or you know, so it's not

1600
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 1: worth the fight. Yeah, you can't let your ego get

1601
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 1: involved in those in those jobs. But if it's your

1602
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: passion project, that's probably we don't really fight about our

1603
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 1: passion projects. That's what's so, you know, that's like my

1604
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 1: perfect on the same page for that. That's what has been.

1605
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Other than, of course, like you know, your two experiences

1606
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 1: getting kidnapped, where have you felt the most drawn to

1607
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: as a journalist. I mean it's hard to say. I mean,

1608
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:30,679
Speaker 1: I guess the longest term body of work I've done

1609
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: is on maternal mortality, so women dying in childbirth, and

1610
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:36,720
Speaker 1: like why that's happening, and that's the story that I

1611
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 1: keep going back to. But I but it's hard to say,

1612
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 1: because honestly, every story I take on I kind of

1613
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 1: throw like my heart and soul into it. And I

1614
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: really really like, I love every story I do because

1615
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: I research, I learn, I meet incredible people, and even

1616
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 1: people whose lives have been like decimated are so unbelievably

1617
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 1: resilient and they teach me something. And so I think

1618
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 1: it's hard to say there's not one story really. I mean,

1619
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,600
Speaker 1: I think I've been really lucky to work on like

1620
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:13,599
Speaker 1: incredible stories. I guess the main theme has been women,

1621
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:18,480
Speaker 1: you know. The main theme has been like women survivors

1622
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: around the world. You know. I think that's you know,

1623
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,519
Speaker 1: whether they're in America or whether they're in the Middle

1624
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:27,719
Speaker 1: East or Africa or wherever. And I think that that's

1625
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,680
Speaker 1: really been kind of the theme of my work. And

1626
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 1: since you've been after Libya, you did like you had

1627
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:39,679
Speaker 1: two children. So I had Lucas, And actually I worked

1628
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: when I was pregnant with Lucas. I didn't tell anyone

1629
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: I was pregnant because I didn't want to not I

1630
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:48,599
Speaker 1: didn't want editors deciding for me, like what I could

1631
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: cover and what I couldn't. So I ended up working

1632
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 1: not in war situations, like not covering combat, but definitely

1633
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: in war zones, you know, so like Afghanistan, Somalia. You know,

1634
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 1: I went to like a bunch of different places while pregnant,

1635
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 1: and then right after I had Lucas. I think I

1636
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:12,840
Speaker 1: was so terrified by the idea of losing my identity

1637
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 1: as a photojournalist that I basically went right back to

1638
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,679
Speaker 1: work three months later and went full on back into

1639
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 1: not covering. I was covering like Syrian refugees, so in

1640
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 1: Northern Iraq, and and you know, all on the border

1641
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: of like you know, Turkey, Jordan, Northern Iraq, all the

1642
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:36,799
Speaker 1: neighboring countries. I didn't go right back into war because

1643
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,519
Speaker 1: I was a little obviously, I was worried that I

1644
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: was going to get kidnapped again. But I but I

1645
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:47,520
Speaker 1: I didn't actually stop covering conflict because it was my identity,

1646
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, it was like the only thing I really knew.

1647
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: I think what happened, though, is, you know, some of

1648
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 1: my editors started making decisions for me, the ones that

1649
01:34:57,200 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 1: I didn't want them to make when I was pregnant.

1650
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:03,240
Speaker 1: But when I became a mother, they stopped sending me

1651
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 1: to like the most dangerous situations. So that was really frustrating.

1652
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:10,439
Speaker 1: You know, I think, you know, and that's happening now,

1653
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there are some editors. I went

1654
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 1: to Yemen a few years ago. This last year, I

1655
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:18,040
Speaker 1: was in Syria and you know, in the jungle in

1656
01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: Colombia and all over. But you know, I'm not like

1657
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: a solely a war photographer. You know, I cover a

1658
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: lot of different things, and I think the important thing

1659
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 1: for me is that I have to have some reason

1660
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 1: for telling that story, Like I'm not going to go

1661
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 1: and just cover whatever war is happening between two rebel

1662
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: groups just because you know, there has to be a

1663
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 1: draw in for that. Well, it's it's it's It's an

1664
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: interesting question, you know, because where do you and when

1665
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:49,519
Speaker 1: I say you, I'm saying the collective you. You know,

1666
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: where do your responsibilities lie when it comes to being

1667
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 1: a mother, and then also sort of honoring your profession

1668
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,800
Speaker 1: and how it is you feel, you know, where's that line,

1669
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:05,200
Speaker 1: where's the balance and what's right and what's wrong. It's

1670
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 1: an interesting question because are you doing a disservice to

1671
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:13,640
Speaker 1: your child by putting yourself in harm's way and potentially

1672
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: leaving him with no mother. Yeah maybe, yeah, And you know, yeah,

1673
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:22,880
Speaker 1: I mean maybe. And that's a constant sort of a

1674
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,160
Speaker 1: negotiation I have in my head always, you know, with

1675
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 1: every assignment I do. But the fact is, like the

1676
01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:33,639
Speaker 1: reason why I was so ambivalent about becoming a mother

1677
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 1: is because I knew that this is not a job

1678
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 1: for me, Like, this is my life and like if

1679
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't you know, if I suddenly stopped covering the

1680
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 1: tough stories I cover, I would be miserable, Like I

1681
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:49,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't be happy, and I wouldn't be a role model

1682
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 1: for my children, you know, I would not be the

1683
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:54,639
Speaker 1: woman that I want them to see. So I think,

1684
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, in one sense, I have a responsibility to

1685
01:36:57,160 --> 01:36:59,800
Speaker 1: be myself and to do the stories I believe in.

1686
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: And yes, that means me putting my life at risk.

1687
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,680
Speaker 1: But you know what, any of us can die at

1688
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 1: any moment, you know, I mean, I know it's horrible

1689
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 1: to say, but like, you know, America has more mass

1690
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:13,599
Speaker 1: shootings than like most of the places I go to them.

1691
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: You know, I think, at the end of the day,

1692
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: this is who I am, and like I you know,

1693
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 1: Paul knew that when he married me. I think I

1694
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,840
Speaker 1: obviously try to sort of weigh every assignment with like

1695
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:28,400
Speaker 1: why do I need to tell this story? Like what

1696
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: can I contribute that? Like other people aren't bringing to

1697
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:34,680
Speaker 1: that story? So that's sort of like, you know, I

1698
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,360
Speaker 1: go through a whole process of trying to figure that out.

1699
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is admirable and it's every

1700
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,600
Speaker 1: everybody's decision has to come. Like you said it, you

1701
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 1: just have to live authentically, no matter what that means.

1702
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 1: But I like what you said to about being a

1703
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: role model, you know what I mean, like that when

1704
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 1: you're getting at which is sort of like if you

1705
01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 1: can do that, then and that's what your children see,

1706
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, life, life will present it stuff however it's

1707
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,520
Speaker 1: supposed to. But if they see you, like living authentically,

1708
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 1: then you're really giving them the best, you know, part

1709
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,840
Speaker 1: of yourself, right, you know. I mean, I look, it's

1710
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:13,200
Speaker 1: hard to say because my kids are too young to

1711
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:16,680
Speaker 1: really really understand. I mean, Lucas is eight now, so

1712
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 1: he understands a lot more than like I want him

1713
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: to understand. But like you know, I think Alfie's a

1714
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:26,400
Speaker 1: year so obviously that's you know, he doesn't understand anything.

1715
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:30,439
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, with Lucas, it's on one hand,

1716
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,920
Speaker 1: I did something that you know, probably wasn't the best thing,

1717
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 1: but I almost kind of when he was born, you know,

1718
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:41,040
Speaker 1: when I gave birth to Lucas, I kind of Paul

1719
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:45,200
Speaker 1: became the primary kind of caregiver. And I set that

1720
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: up intentionally because maybe somewhere I felt like, well, if

1721
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 1: something does happen to me, I want him to be

1722
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 1: as close, if not closer to Paul than he is

1723
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:58,599
Speaker 1: to me, because I don't want him to be left,

1724
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, without that primary caregiver. And so that, you know,

1725
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: I look at now and like that relationship holds true.

1726
01:39:06,479 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 1: Like he's still much closer to Paul than me, and

1727
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:11,760
Speaker 1: that's because I was basically gone for the first like

1728
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 1: four or five years of his life, you know, And

1729
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 1: the irony is like with Alphie, that's not the case.

1730
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:20,599
Speaker 1: Like also, the pandemic has set up the circumstances where

1731
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:22,679
Speaker 1: like we're on top of each other twenty four hours

1732
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 1: a day. But like, you know, I'm around much more

1733
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 1: now than I certainly was eight years ago. And what's

1734
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 1: your relationship with death? You know what I mean? Like,

1735
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 1: what do you how do you feel about it? I'm

1736
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 1: not at all scared by it at all. I think

1737
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 1: it's so I'm I'm very sort of matter of fact

1738
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:41,960
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, in one sense, I kind of

1739
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:44,720
Speaker 1: believe in fate. Like I just I you know, I'm

1740
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,200
Speaker 1: pretty healthy. I work out all the time, I eat

1741
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 1: pretty healthy aside from my sugar addiction. But I but

1742
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:54,720
Speaker 1: you know, I think, you know, I do believe that

1743
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 1: sometimes things are out of our hands, and like you know,

1744
01:39:58,479 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 1: you see the healthiest people to have a heart attack

1745
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 1: at forty or get cancer and there's nothing you can do.

1746
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: So like for me, I really believe that I should

1747
01:40:07,560 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 1: live the life I believe in and that's the best

1748
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 1: sort of role model I can be for my kids.

1749
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:17,720
Speaker 1: Does your whole family agree with this? Maybe not? Yes?

1750
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,000
Speaker 1: I mean like does your family is there? Again? Is

1751
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:22,840
Speaker 1: like I mean because I know, like if you were

1752
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 1: my sister, I'd be like Lindsey like me out of

1753
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 1: my own fear for you and your kids, I might

1754
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:34,600
Speaker 1: I might say, Babe, I don't like this anymore, you

1755
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, have you ever had any

1756
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 1: pushback like that from anybody in your family? No? No, Lee, No, No,

1757
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:46,400
Speaker 1: definitely not. It's it's we've all been like, this is

1758
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:49,600
Speaker 1: what she does, this is what we do. You know,

1759
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: it's all just kind of it's kind of I guess

1760
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 1: it goes back to the way we were raised. It's

1761
01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 1: like a respect for doing what you love and giving

1762
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:00,920
Speaker 1: someone the space to do that and not trying to

1763
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:05,840
Speaker 1: control anything. You know, That's pretty much. I feel like

1764
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 1: it probably comes back to that. Yeah, it feels like it,

1765
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:11,840
Speaker 1: you know. I mean if mom is saying I'm going

1766
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, okay, honey, like half of the past, you know,

1767
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:19,759
Speaker 1: I think that was ignorance really, but yeah, she didn't

1768
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:22,560
Speaker 1: really know where Afghanistan was. She thought it was like

1769
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 1: the Caribbean or something. Yeah, exactly. She probably Now as

1770
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:30,200
Speaker 1: this pandemic is happening, and as you're getting sort of

1771
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 1: rejected from all the places you really want to go into,

1772
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 1: what are you looking forward to when this starts to

1773
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 1: kind of open up again. I want to go home.

1774
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: I want to go to the US. Actually I'm going

1775
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 1: forward to like, yeah, I'm looking forward to going home

1776
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:51,840
Speaker 1: and just kind of seeing everyone. And then there's a

1777
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 1: story that I want to shoot. There are actually a

1778
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:57,160
Speaker 1: few stories I want to shoot in the US kind

1779
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 1: of post pandemic. So yeah, that and then just seeing

1780
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:09,200
Speaker 1: like it's really it's really strange because my profession may change,

1781
01:42:09,479 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 1: like incredibly based on this. You know, like I think

1782
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:17,560
Speaker 1: it'll be a long time before publications encourage travel to

1783
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:22,000
Speaker 1: other countries for work, because I think right now, you know,

1784
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:26,440
Speaker 1: the security advisors are basically saying work in your immediate surroundings,

1785
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of like a huge deal for

1786
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:33,439
Speaker 1: somebody I see, I see like an RV in your future,

1787
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:38,799
Speaker 1: and just and just the US just literally just traveling

1788
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:41,360
Speaker 1: around the entire United States in some sort of an RV.

1789
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel. I'm not sure about that. Yeah,

1790
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 1: And then Lisa for you, I mean, we're all in

1791
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:52,200
Speaker 1: the same boat here with the movie business and TV

1792
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:57,240
Speaker 1: business writing so much we're more in development. I mean,

1793
01:42:57,320 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 1: we're probably first and foremost, right, and so our lives

1794
01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:04,880
Speaker 1: have not been affected that much like we were. We

1795
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:08,080
Speaker 1: have three jobs, like we've been working throughout this whole

1796
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:11,439
Speaker 1: thing and handing in drafts and having zoom meetings. You know,

1797
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,600
Speaker 1: we've had a few zoom pitches, which really suck. But

1798
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: other than that, you know, development is not that different.

1799
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:20,719
Speaker 1: It's the production end of it, as you know. That's

1800
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 1: that's been Yeah, you could probably sell sell a few things.

1801
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:29,200
Speaker 1: But then actually having realized is can you just give

1802
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 1: us a little bit, lindsay about your book, your latest book,

1803
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:39,320
Speaker 1: and how that came about. So I, in order to

1804
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,320
Speaker 1: talk about the second book, I'll talk about the first book.

1805
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 1: The first book I wrote in twenty fifteen was It's

1806
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:51,040
Speaker 1: What I Do and that was a memoir. And ironically

1807
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: I had never done a photo book, even though I've

1808
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 1: been a photographer for twenty years, but I never really

1809
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 1: felt like I was ready for a photo book. And

1810
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 1: so I decided to write a book first because so

1811
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:04,600
Speaker 1: many people kept asking me to write about what it

1812
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 1: was like to be a woman as a war photographer

1813
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 1: and kind of navigating life in this man's world. And

1814
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 1: so I wrote the memoir. And then in twenty eighteen,

1815
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: I finally published my first book, like a retrospective book

1816
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 1: of photography, and that is like a coffee table book,

1817
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: and it's called of Love and War. And they were

1818
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: both published by Penguin Press, and I had the same

1819
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 1: editor on both and she was amazing, and so yeah,

1820
01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 1: an absolutely beautiful book. Thank you hold on, and Lisa,

1821
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:41,000
Speaker 1: you're just writing a bunch of good shit, right, I

1822
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:44,040
Speaker 1: mean all you you're just writing. You're writing right now. Yeah,

1823
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:47,320
Speaker 1: we're just writing. Yeah. We handed in three projects writing

1824
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 1: stuff for family Ya, animation, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah,

1825
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:57,200
Speaker 1: happy sciss are happy he's written. We're trying to get

1826
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:01,639
Speaker 1: that made now. Although the you know, the question Mark production,

1827
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:04,160
Speaker 1: So are you going to direct that? Are you guys

1828
01:45:04,160 --> 01:45:05,920
Speaker 1: going to do? You want to direct? Yeah? I'm actually

1829
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 1: directing that one kind of solo. But I mean Joe

1830
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:12,639
Speaker 1: will be there too. I mean we do everything together.

1831
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, we both wrote it and I'm directing it.

1832
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's dope around, okay. One word to describe

1833
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 1: the other? No bullshit laughing. Who was more wild as

1834
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 1: a kid? Me? Lynz? Definitely? And what got you in

1835
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 1: trouble the most? Eating candy? So you've always had a

1836
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 1: sugar tea still? Yeah, we have the sugar addicts. I

1837
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 1: mean we at how old are you? Fifty? You have

1838
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: a bag of gummy candies in your desk at all times?

1839
01:45:54,600 --> 01:46:06,759
Speaker 1: Sold on? Hold on, wait like stick thing? Look my god,

1840
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 1: that's that's real. That's that's real. I actually do that anymore.

1841
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 1: I have like one dessert after dinner, like a cookie

1842
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 1: or an ice cream, but like candy anymore. Yeah, because

1843
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 1: we're just we can't see this, but she just pulled

1844
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 1: out like six bags of oh yeah candyline, but it's

1845
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:37,800
Speaker 1: you're a gummy girl? Who is bossier? Me? Yeah? I

1846
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 1: think I think Lee? Well, because you run the household.

1847
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: Lee runs the household, so she like, you know, she

1848
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 1: does everything, So I think you have to be Yeah,

1849
01:46:49,160 --> 01:46:53,880
Speaker 1: who's more competitive? Me? Yeah for sure. Yeah. Who's the

1850
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:57,920
Speaker 1: favorite daughter of all the four? Who's like the golden child?

1851
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:04,360
Speaker 1: I mean Laura's always Yeah, we always say Laura, but

1852
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:08,080
Speaker 1: mom is always like I don't have a fase of course,

1853
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 1: but they don't, but they do. There's always a favorite child,

1854
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:17,560
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, yeah, yeah, I think Laura. I

1855
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: think Laura because she's like the most sensitive and sweet

1856
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 1: and kind of like yeah, very attentive and a good listener,

1857
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 1: and we're kind of like and we're kind of like

1858
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:31,400
Speaker 1: doing our You were like, yeah, Laurel will take care.

1859
01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Yeah. Who's the one that everyone calls for advice?

1860
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 1: Who's the sage? Yeah? I call Lee? Yeah, depends what

1861
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 1: kind of advice. Yeah, you're talking about Yeah, okay, so

1862
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:49,000
Speaker 1: like relationship advice. I mean, we've all been married for

1863
01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:57,320
Speaker 1: so fucking long. Yeah, I mean, I mean I call

1864
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:01,080
Speaker 1: Lee a lot. But if it's like a like a

1865
01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:06,040
Speaker 1: personal kind of deep tragedy like something, I'll call I'll

1866
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:10,280
Speaker 1: call Lauren, but I'll call Lee for like professional immediate,

1867
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:16,080
Speaker 1: like yeah, practical things, practical every how long do you

1868
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:21,720
Speaker 1: cook a turkey for? This isn't on the list, but

1869
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:24,840
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, you guys are all married, all

1870
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 1: four of you, correct, do you guys look at each

1871
01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:35,400
Speaker 1: other's relationships and sort of think a nodding yeah, you're

1872
01:48:35,439 --> 01:48:43,320
Speaker 1: doing always oh my god, oh my god. Well, like

1873
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:47,840
Speaker 1: Lee and I are kind of yeah, no, we we

1874
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 1: judge each other's relationships a lot. We make fun of

1875
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 1: Lauren Chris because they're so romantic and romantic and they're

1876
01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:01,840
Speaker 1: always oh sweetie, And if like Chris leaves the room

1877
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:06,559
Speaker 1: for five seconds, Laura's like, oh baby, where is Lindsay?

1878
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 1: And I are like, are you fucking kidding? Like can

1879
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: you imagine if I all of a sudden was like

1880
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:15,640
Speaker 1: to Joe, oh baby, my kids would drop dead of

1881
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:18,880
Speaker 1: a hardsh at baby, Like wait, are you being affectionate?

1882
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 1: With dad and same thing. Like Lindsa and I are

1883
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:27,120
Speaker 1: very similar and Laura and are more similar in their relationship.

1884
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:28,960
Speaker 1: That's really fine. And do you think do you think

1885
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,280
Speaker 1: they look at you guys and are like, yeah, they

1886
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:34,759
Speaker 1: just don't even love each other. Yes, yes, yes, totally.

1887
01:49:34,920 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're like, oh my god, they have the

1888
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:49,320
Speaker 1: worst relationship relationship. Yeah, that's so funny. God, and we

1889
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:51,599
Speaker 1: all think we're and we all think we're the best,

1890
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:57,160
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, everybody thinks that they do. That's who

1891
01:49:57,360 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: tells a better joke? Lee? Lee's got the best sense

1892
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:06,720
Speaker 1: of humor? I mean I'm dry. Yeah, she has the driest,

1893
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:15,400
Speaker 1: best sense of humor. Yeah. And who's the most dramatic? Leslie? Right? Yeah?

1894
01:50:17,320 --> 01:50:22,240
Speaker 1: Probably Les Or just in the way she tells stories. No,

1895
01:50:23,320 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 1: you're emphatic, but you're not dramatic, Like Les is more dramatic.

1896
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:31,240
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, in the way she tells stories,

1897
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah probably. Yeah. Who's the best cook? Lee? Oh my god,

1898
01:50:37,439 --> 01:50:39,920
Speaker 1: I used to be a cook for a living. Oh

1899
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:42,560
Speaker 1: you did, okay? Yeah? Yeah, I mean she cooks like

1900
01:50:43,080 --> 01:50:46,400
Speaker 1: it's annoying. She'll just like whip up the most unbelievable

1901
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:49,599
Speaker 1: meal in like five minutes for twenty people. I mean,

1902
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:53,240
Speaker 1: it's really annoying. How's your quarantine cooking going, you guys?

1903
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 1: I mean, oh you should follow her on Instagram and

1904
01:50:56,000 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 1: she puts recipes every night. Are you serious? Okay? Yeah, yes,

1905
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 1: bakey cakes. I have them in my highlights. And I

1906
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:09,519
Speaker 1: say it because I get so many texts from people

1907
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:11,600
Speaker 1: who are like, how did you make that salmon? And

1908
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:14,479
Speaker 1: so I put it. I have highlights of like a

1909
01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's literally from London. I'm making the recipes

1910
01:51:19,479 --> 01:51:22,919
Speaker 1: she made the night before because like it's just easier

1911
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:26,000
Speaker 1: to like not have to think about it. That's awesome.

1912
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm like loving cook gang right now. So I'm excited. Yeah,

1913
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:33,960
Speaker 1: let's see who cries more, who cries the easiest? Me? Well,

1914
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:38,760
Speaker 1: n me, I'm yeah, I think it's a I think

1915
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:42,559
Speaker 1: it's PTSD. But I cry a lot. Like I basically

1916
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 1: cry all the time. Not when I'm like sometimes when

1917
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm working if it's like an emotional but I'm like

1918
01:51:48,439 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 1: a hard ass in the field, But the minute my

1919
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 1: guard is down, I'm like a whimpering fool. Yeah. I

1920
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:57,880
Speaker 1: cry all the time. I love to cry, though it

1921
01:51:57,960 --> 01:52:02,120
Speaker 1: feels me great. Meets you yeah, I think it's important

1922
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:10,040
Speaker 1: to take a week. Yeah, totally. Who is the most organized, Lee,

1923
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:19,439
Speaker 1: I'm I'm pretty organized. She's basically like the ideal woman. Yeah,

1924
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:23,880
Speaker 1: and who would plan the vacation? I plan? Well, you

1925
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:28,080
Speaker 1: don't a vacation, you don't leave your house. No, I'm

1926
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:31,400
Speaker 1: talking about like our summer trips when we all get together,

1927
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:36,120
Speaker 1: like the once the you know, the summer house things

1928
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, like, okay, you do you know, yeah,

1929
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:41,960
Speaker 1: I do those. But if we're going to like we

1930
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:44,920
Speaker 1: went on a family trip to India with our family

1931
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:48,000
Speaker 1: and Lindza's family, Like, if it's somewhere exotic, Lindza will

1932
01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:52,400
Speaker 1: do it obviously. Well, because we like fancier, we like, yeah,

1933
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:55,960
Speaker 1: we we They want to stay in like more budget places,

1934
01:52:56,080 --> 01:52:58,519
Speaker 1: and me and Paul are slightly snobby, and so we

1935
01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 1: just say we're going to a plant because we don't

1936
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,360
Speaker 1: want to end up in like some three star hotel.

1937
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:07,200
Speaker 1: But we're like, do you remember what I do for

1938
01:53:07,280 --> 01:53:12,800
Speaker 1: a living? I want vacation please. No. Yeah, Well that's

1939
01:53:12,840 --> 01:53:14,680
Speaker 1: the thing. It's like, I'm fine to sleep in a

1940
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:16,640
Speaker 1: tent for like six months out of the year, but

1941
01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 1: when I go on vacation, I want like to be

1942
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:23,840
Speaker 1: completely paffed for, of course something your sister is really

1943
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 1: bad at. I'm bad no saying no. Plea's bad at

1944
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 1: saying no. True, I want to please everyone, and she's

1945
01:53:34,120 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 1: bad at saying no. Yeah. Yeah. And she also bottles

1946
01:53:37,360 --> 01:53:40,240
Speaker 1: her emotions to the point where she just bursts into

1947
01:53:40,280 --> 01:53:42,320
Speaker 1: tears when she can't get a good cup of coffee.

1948
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:46,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, that has actually happened. It comes out

1949
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:52,759
Speaker 1: in really really weird ways. Yeah yeah. And me Lyn's

1950
01:53:53,000 --> 01:54:04,360
Speaker 1: you're bad at understanding football. Good one, good one. What

1951
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 1: do you think your sister would be doing if she

1952
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 1: wasn't a writer? And what do you think your sister

1953
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:12,520
Speaker 1: would be doing if she wasn't a journalist, a photograph,

1954
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:17,320
Speaker 1: be a cook? I think yeah, I would run a restaurant,

1955
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 1: I'm sure or something. Yeah. Yeah, what would you be doing?

1956
01:54:24,040 --> 01:54:27,200
Speaker 1: You're literally doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. Yeah,

1957
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:36,280
Speaker 1: it's so weird. I cannot imagine. That is rough. There

1958
01:54:36,360 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 1: you go miserable. If I wasn't eating the life I'm living,

1959
01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:42,879
Speaker 1: you would be What about if you could live anywhere?

1960
01:54:42,920 --> 01:54:46,080
Speaker 1: Where would you guys want to live? I think we'd

1961
01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 1: all want to live closer to each other closer. Yeah, yeah,

1962
01:54:49,600 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 1: I think maybe on the East Coast. Maybe. I don't know,

1963
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 1: because we grew up there, so it's like we just

1964
01:54:57,600 --> 01:55:01,720
Speaker 1: associate that with like family. Wherever our family is, that's

1965
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 1: the real place to live. I think first Morning Person

1966
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:10,760
Speaker 1: or night Owl, Morning Morning, both mornings, morning morning. Uh.

1967
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:21,440
Speaker 1: The first celebrity crush my Eric Johnny? What mine was

1968
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:27,800
Speaker 1: Johnny from her Emergency? What Johnny from Emergency? There's Johnny

1969
01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 1: and Roy and Roy and yeah and Les and I

1970
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 1: used to watch Emergency and she was in love with

1971
01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 1: Roy the blonde bald one, and I was in love

1972
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 1: with Johnny the dark haired one, and we used to fight.

1973
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:43,360
Speaker 1: I was in love with Eric Strata from Chips. Oh yeah,

1974
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:47,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I think I used to kiss the

1975
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 1: TV when he would show up. Favorite book, favorite book

1976
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 1: Portrait of a Lady for me, probably a Joan Didion book,

1977
01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: or a Ray Carver or or a sport in a

1978
01:56:04,120 --> 01:56:08,480
Speaker 1: Pastime by James Salters. When I get back to like that. Yeah, well,

1979
01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: let's do our last question you asked you asked, Okay,

1980
01:56:13,160 --> 01:56:18,320
Speaker 1: so we ask every guest two questions. What is something

1981
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:21,600
Speaker 1: that you would like to alleviate from them that you

1982
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 1: feel would kind of give them some uh that would

1983
01:56:26,160 --> 01:56:29,680
Speaker 1: make them feel better or would or would be beneficial

1984
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:32,280
Speaker 1: to their life. And then the other part is what

1985
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 1: quality of theirs is something that you something you don't

1986
01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:39,200
Speaker 1: have that would be amazing if you could emulate that

1987
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 1: you sort of respect so much out of the other person. Okay,

1988
01:56:42,680 --> 01:56:51,560
Speaker 1: I can start. I would go. I would alleviate because

1989
01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:55,800
Speaker 1: Lee takes care of everybody, like, not only all of

1990
01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:59,680
Speaker 1: her immediate family, not only her husband, who she like

1991
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:04,680
Speaker 1: basically you know, cooks every meal, makes everything that goes

1992
01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:07,840
Speaker 1: into his mouth, but also like make sure he works

1993
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:10,080
Speaker 1: out and make sure he gets like the mental space

1994
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:11,880
Speaker 1: he needs, and make sure that they work and that

1995
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:14,640
Speaker 1: they stay clean the house and all this stuff. So

1996
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:17,560
Speaker 1: I would leave and the two kids, the teenager, So

1997
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:20,480
Speaker 1: I would alleviate some of the pressure that she puts

1998
01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 1: on herself to like keep the machine of her household

1999
01:57:25,320 --> 01:57:28,360
Speaker 1: running because it's just like it's a lot of work.

2000
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:30,880
Speaker 1: So I feel like I would give her like a

2001
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:34,960
Speaker 1: two weeks or two months off to just like go

2002
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 1: she hates the beach, so to just go like, I

2003
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:41,160
Speaker 1: don't know, sit in a cabin somewhere I don't know. Yeah,

2004
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:45,680
Speaker 1: wherever sure I go. And then the quality that she

2005
01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 1: has is probably generosity and hospitality, like those two, you know,

2006
01:57:51,480 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 1: like extraordinary generosity, but also like making a home, like

2007
01:57:55,640 --> 01:57:59,240
Speaker 1: she's an amazing homemaker. And I don't say that in

2008
01:57:59,360 --> 01:58:01,760
Speaker 1: like a dragatory sense. I say it in the sense

2009
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:05,680
Speaker 1: of like like she invites people in and makes everyone

2010
01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: feel welcome, and I think that's an incredible quality. Thanks, Lyns. Yeah,

2011
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:20,880
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Sometimes I can be sentimental, so I would.

2012
01:58:21,120 --> 01:58:23,440
Speaker 1: I think that the thing I would take, that I

2013
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 1: would aleviate for you is the guilt that you feel

2014
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:35,080
Speaker 1: on some level for putting your career ahead of your family,

2015
01:58:35,480 --> 01:58:38,400
Speaker 1: because I think that I know that's something that you

2016
01:58:38,640 --> 01:58:43,520
Speaker 1: have and you question, and I would remove that for you.

2017
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:45,680
Speaker 1: If I could just press a button and have it

2018
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:49,400
Speaker 1: go away, I would. I would do that. That would

2019
01:58:50,400 --> 01:58:56,360
Speaker 1: take me out of therapy for a while. Yes, And

2020
01:58:56,680 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 1: then I wish I had more drive and ambition, ambition

2021
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:04,880
Speaker 1: or just like sell. Every time Lindsay Paul come here,

2022
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:08,360
Speaker 1: they're like, you need to promote yourself more, you need

2023
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:11,280
Speaker 1: to be you know. I just don't have that. I

2024
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:15,160
Speaker 1: just am happy with what happens and what I am doing.

2025
01:59:15,240 --> 01:59:19,240
Speaker 1: In the present instead of like trying to sell myself

2026
01:59:19,440 --> 01:59:23,840
Speaker 1: and promote myself. And you know, I think it could

2027
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:27,880
Speaker 1: I could have a little more of that. So yeah,

2028
01:59:28,360 --> 01:59:30,400
Speaker 1: well it's so good to see your face. I'm so

2029
01:59:30,480 --> 01:59:35,560
Speaker 1: hobby week, I know, so fun. Yeah, so nice to

2030
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:41,640
Speaker 1: meet you. Lisa is so great, you too, Okay, all right,

2031
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:49,880
Speaker 1: yeah day. Sibling Revelry is executive post by Kate Hudson,

2032
01:59:49,960 --> 01:59:54,320
Speaker 1: Olira Hudson and Simsarna. Supervising producer is Alison Presnant. Editor

2033
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:59,440
Speaker 1: is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson aka Uncle mana