1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift? Nancy 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Grace here, don't give them another onesie, don't give them 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: a plastic toy or god forbid, a toy gun that's 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: just going to end up in the garage. Give them 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: something that matters, and what matters the most is protecting 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: their child. What do you love most in the world 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: your children? What will you do to protect them anything. 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: I sat down with these smartest people I know in 10 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: the world on matters of child's safety, finding missing children, 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: fighting back against predators, and what I learned is so important, 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: powerful and information so critical. I want you to have it. 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: I want them to have it. Go to crimestops here 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: dot com for a five part series with action information 15 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: that you can use to change your life and protect 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: your child payment starting six ninety nine. Give that as 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: a gift, not another one ze. Find out how to 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: protect your child when you're out at the mall or 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: the store, or the grocery, in the parking lot at home. 20 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: Find out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: I'd rather have that any day of the week than 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: a plastic toy or God forbid a toy gun. Join 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: Justice Nation, go to crime stops here dot com. I 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: mean it, see Grace. This is crime stories in our update. 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: Breaking news in the Tera Grinstead disappearance and murder to 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned for instance, expert author of Blood 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joe Scott breaking news out 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: of a courtroom and the Tera Grinstead case. And no, 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: the Dukes have not gone to trial. This was another 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: type of hearing altogether. What happened? What did you learn? 31 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Nancy. Yeah, it's not a trial. This 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: is a bond hearing. This is just to determine if 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: this fellow is going to be let out of custody 34 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: so that he can, you know, plan for his own 35 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: defense and make money. And they talked about this, that 36 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: he actually has a job waiting for him, working in 37 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: the back of the kitchen in this thing like you 38 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: would you know, uh, kind of surprising to me, and 39 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: that they would let him loose. Listen, tons of information 40 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: came out they allowed in this in this process for 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: the GBI to get up on the stand, they talked 42 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: about in intimate detail, how how he had admitted to 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: burning the body, disposing the body. And what was really 44 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: amazing is they painted this picture of him going back 45 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: out several times to reinitiate the fire to render down 46 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: Teragrinstead's body. I was just perplexed by this. Nancy, our friend, 47 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: private investigator and a long crime anchor, Vincent Hill, was 48 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: in the courtroom for Ryan Duke's bond hearing. The courtroom 49 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: was packed. I was in there for the entire four 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: and a half hours. I was actually outside when Ryan 51 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: Duke was escorted from the van. It was a very 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: nondescript Chrysler van. He was in shackles, he was in handcuffs. 53 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: He didn't say anything even when asked was he hopeful 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: of the bond? But when you got in the courtroom, 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: it was a pack courtroom. The entire middle section and 56 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: the entire left section were all supporters of Ryan Duke. 57 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: On the front row of the right section, the far 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: right section, you had Terra's stepmother, her dad, some other relatives. 59 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: Directly behind them was the GBI agent who's been working 60 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: on the case, and a few other law enforcement All 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: in all, the majority of the people in the courtroom 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: were there in support of Ryan Duke. The Georgia Bureau 63 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: of Investigation has been notorious for keeping details of the 64 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Terra Grinstead case secret for years, but there were major 65 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: revelations in this hearing. The GBI dropped a bombshell. Now 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: we had heard about this latex glove found outside of 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: Terras Grinstead's home, which had male DNA which was unknown, 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: But yesterday the GBI said they obtained the search warrant 69 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: obtain Ryan Duke's DNA. That DNA matched that DNA on 70 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: the glove. It was also mixed with Tara Grinstead DNA, 71 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: and they also recovered a partial pom print that listed 72 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: to Ryan Duke. That latex glove found in Tera Grinstead's 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: yard has been the subject of major speculation for years. 74 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: Now we finally know investigators did find DNA on it 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: linked to the defendant, Ryan Duke. Duke defense lawyer Ashley 76 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: Merchant appears to have used this bond hearing as a 77 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: way to lock in the GBI agent's testimony, but in 78 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: the end her client will not be given bond while 79 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: he awaits trial in the Tera Grinstead murder. The judge 80 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: heard a lot of evidence during the bond hearing. It 81 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: was more like a trial if you will then a 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: bond hearing. Of course, the defense was presenting evidence during 83 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: this bond hearing, but the judge at the end of it, 84 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: he took less than thirty sections to say, hey, I'm 85 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: denying your bond because you could be a flight risk 86 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: or you can intimidate witnesses. And one of the things 87 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: that Ashley Merchant tried to bring up was, oh, well, 88 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: the fact of this drug used that he's suicidal. You know, 89 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: it hasn't really been proven because the GBI didn't do 90 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: a drug test while he was being interrogated. He wasn't 91 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: buying it. He denied the bond. He also denied currently 92 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: right now a change of venue that they were receiving 93 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: as well. Thanks Vincent Hill. Nancy Grace will follow this 94 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: case closely as it moves toward a trial. We're also 95 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: today following the disappearance of a twelve year old boy 96 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: from Mobile, Alabama, Ian Lee Clark, last scene Saturday at 97 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: his home. Police believe he left in a black two 98 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 1: thousand and nine Chevrolet Trailblazer with an Alabama license plate 99 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: damage to the back driver side door. It was his 100 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: grandmother's car he may have been driving. They're not sure 101 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com reporter Lee Egan just talked to 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: Ian's mom. The mother says he's with someone, probably older. 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: She's just not sure who. He has a couple of 104 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: friends and none of them know where he could be. Initially, 105 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: police thought he was out for a joy ride, so 106 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: they did not register the car tag until Monday. But 107 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: he's been missing since Saturday, anywhere from nine thirty am 108 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: to noon, because that's the last time Stanley saw him. 109 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: Ian Lee Clark's mom fears her son was taken by 110 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: an adult he met on social media. After the boy 111 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: posted he wanted to find a girlfriend. She said that 112 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: he said, I'm twelve years old. My name is Ian Monday. 113 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: He's got by different name on social media. His last 114 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: name was still Lundy. He said he was twelve years 115 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: old looking for girls to hang out with, open for anything, 116 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: and she didn't know about this account until later till 117 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: after he already left, so she had no idea he 118 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: was even talking on social media at all under a 119 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: different name. There's no chance he's with his father. The 120 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: mother does have soul custody, but the father is completely cleared. 121 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: He's not with his father. He did not have permission 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: to take his grandmother's car. He's not with his grandmother. 123 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: Ian Lee Clark is a white male with green eyes, 124 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: brown hair, and he is big for age twelve, stands 125 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: five foot six weighs one hundred and eighty pounds. Last scene, 126 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: he was wearing a gray hoodie and khaki pants. If 127 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: you see Ian or know anything about his disappearance, called 128 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: the Mobile, Alabama Police Department at two five one two 129 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: O eight seven thousand, or dial nine one one. See photos, 130 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: details and updates on Nancy Grace's crime and justice website, 131 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: Crime online dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Initially, 132 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: I met R. Kelly by going to nih trial. I 133 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: met him when I was fourteen, and I was like 134 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: on the fence and I wanted to know, like, did 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: he really do what everyone said he did. Here is 136 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: a man who is going on trial for having sex 137 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: for the underage girl, and yet you had women not 138 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: supporting the victim but supporting the guy who was going 139 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: on trial. I screamed at the top of my lungs, 140 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: what is wrong with this person? His poor decisions have 141 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: ruined so many laughs. He destroyed my family. You are 142 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: hearing from the NBC News Dayline. R Kelly's lifetime Surviving 143 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: R Kelly, I mean as he grace, this is crime Stories. 144 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. My big question is, 145 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: with all of these women now speaking out, how is 146 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: this guy still walking free? And yes, you know, I've 147 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: got a defense attorney with me right now, and I 148 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: know he has presumed in a son until proven guilty. 149 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: I get it. I went to law school just like 150 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: everybody else did. That's a lawyer. But this is overwhelming. 151 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: And with me right now is a very special guest, 152 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: Lisa van Allen that I met, and just her poise 153 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: and her emotion, her recounting her time with R Kelly, 154 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: the musical superstar nearly broke my heart. And I'm not 155 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: quite sure why cops and prosecutors aren't making a move 156 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: on R Kelly. Based on Lisa Vanna Allen alone, also 157 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: with me rater online dot com investigator reporter Alexis Terreschuk, 158 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: p I cop turned private investigator and author of Playbook 159 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: to a Murder. Vincent Hill Doctor Bethany Marshall, Boy, do 160 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: I need a shrink on this one? Psychoanalyst out of 161 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: La Nicole de Board, former felony prosecutor, now defense attorney 162 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen with me. Lisa, at this moment, there 163 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: is a father and mother out there who claims that R. Kelly, 164 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: the musical superstar. You know him best, probably from I 165 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: Believe I Can Fly, which shot to the top of 166 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: the charts, that's his. A father and mother of a 167 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: girl say their daughter was ninety pounds and looked like 168 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: a prisoner after she returned from the singer's tour bus 169 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: and screamed quote like a mad woman at the mention 170 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: of R. Kelly's name. Now, these quote rumors have been 171 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: swirling for years, and I recall when R. Kelly was prosecuted. 172 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: I mean it took a darned videotape being sent to 173 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office. I guess the word of the victims 174 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 1: wasn't enough, so they go forward with a video of R. 175 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: Kelly not only having sex with a minor that's called 176 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: statutory rape according to the prosecution, but urinating on her 177 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: and in her mouth. Okay, the jury acquitted him, claiming 178 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 1: that they didn't know if the girl was underage. Okay, 179 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen, thank you again for being with us. 180 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: Could you please, as best as you can tell us 181 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: how you met R Kelly and what happened after that? 182 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: I met him and nineteen ninety eight at the Home 183 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: Alone video shoot, I actually went with a friend of 184 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: mine's girlfriends. She was an extra and I went with 185 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: her and I was an extra as well, and he 186 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: actually had his cousin come up to me and told 187 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: me that he wanted to meet me. I wasn't sure 188 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: who he was when he told me. He said, Rob 189 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: wants to meet you. And I was asking who Rob was, 190 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: and he said R Kelly. So I went over to him. 191 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: I was, you know, surprised because I was only seventeen 192 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: years old, so I didn't expect to meet him. There 193 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: were tongues of grown women there, strippers and other you 194 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: know things like that that he could have been interested 195 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: in meeting. But he picked out the youngest girl in 196 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: the crowd and I want to re met him. And 197 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: he asked me how old I was and I told 198 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: him I was seventeen. His first question, well, his second 199 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: question was will your mother let you come to Chicago. 200 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: Hold One for those of you just joining me, an 201 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: alleged victim, the superstar R Kelly, the creator of I 202 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: Believe I Can Fly. Hold On just a moment, Doctor 203 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, let me ask Lisa one more question, Lisa, 204 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: was this before or after he was tried on that 205 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: video with the fourteen year old girl before? So, Dodtor, 206 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. The first thing he did, and Lisa Van 207 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: Allen has been consistent every time she's told her story. 208 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: The first thing he did. He seeks her out. There's 209 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: all the strippers, grown women everywhere. He comes over to 210 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: a teen girl and says, how old are you? What 211 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: does that tell you, Dodtor Bethany. It tells me that 212 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: this is his offending pattern. He wants underage girls miners, 213 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: and he wants girls who are pliable over whom he 214 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: can have control. And you know R Kelly is setting 215 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: up a sex cult, so what is he going to do. 216 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: He's going to go towards the youngest, the most vulnerable 217 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: members of any group, and he's going to recruit them. 218 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: He's on a recruiting mission. That's what it tells me. 219 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: Back to Lisa Van Allen, she claims that R. Kelly 220 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: took advantage of her sexually as a young girl, and 221 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I believe her. I believe her standing on her own 222 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: because I've met her. We're not just some disembodied voices 223 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: over the airwaves. I have met Lisa Vanna Allen. I 224 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: have looked her in the eye. I've spoken to her 225 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: on and off camera. I have evaluated her credibility, her demeanor, 226 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: her the degree of detail. I've compared her current statements 227 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: to many, many previous statements for inconsistencies and corroboration. And 228 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: I can tell you, as a veteran felony prosecutor, if 229 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: I were a better I would put money that Lisa 230 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Van Allen is telling the truth, and I believe a 231 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: jury would agree with me. Listen, when we first started 232 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: having sex, Rob was behind the camera and I started 233 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: popping the tapes in to see what was on them. 234 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: But I came across the one with me, him and 235 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: the fourteen year old bootleg copies. The tape start showing 236 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: up around the country. This is the one that makes 237 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: it almost impossible for people to pretend that they did 238 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: not know that this person had a thing for little girls. 239 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: Chicago sometimes contacted me to view tapes that possibly had 240 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: girls on it that I may have known. That was her, 241 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: my niece for sure, and that was him. Police are 242 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: investigating a video allegedly showing the R and B singer 243 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: having sex with a fourteen year old girl. Chicago Police 244 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: Development is currently seeking to arrest mister Kelly. Hey, guys, 245 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: let me Paul's right there because I want to thank 246 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: our partner making our program possible today. It's Quell q 247 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: U E L L. Here's my question. Is chronic daily 248 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: pain destroying your sleep or your life like it has 249 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: been from my mom? It kills me to watch my 250 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: mother have chronic pain. She lives with us now and 251 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: she has pain all through the day and night. If 252 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: you suffer from daily nagging or intense pain, I've got 253 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: a discovery for you to try. Quell. It's an FDA 254 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: cleared breakthrough wearable you wear it technology developed by doctor's. 255 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: Quell shown to relieve chronic pain in multiple studies, and 256 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: it works by helping turn down the volume of pain 257 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: by triggering your body's natural pain blockers. It's like a 258 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: volume control between your pain and your brain. Quill drug free, 259 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,239 Speaker 1: and boy do I like that part? No prescription required. 260 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: It can be used even while you sleep. With almost 261 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: two hundred the device is sold Quell's design for anyone 262 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: suffering with a wide range of pain condition. If you 263 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: suffer daily challenging pain, try Quell try at risk free 264 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: sixty days. If you're not thrilled, return it for a refund. 265 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: Go to quell relief dot com. Enter promo code Nancy 266 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: for thirty bucks off a starter kit, q U E 267 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: L L again Quill relief dot com. Enter promo code 268 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: Nancy for thirty dollars off quill relief dot com. Thank 269 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: you for being her partner. So, Lisa Van Allen R. 270 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: Kelly comes up to you, amongst all the strippers and 271 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: the women ground women, he picks out a skinny little 272 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: girl and then what happens says how old are you? 273 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: Then what happens? And will your mom will let you 274 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: come to my town? Right? And then, I mean, of 275 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: course he knows I'm not going to ask my mother. 276 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: It's a video shoot, and there's no we didn't have 277 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: cell phones, you know, back then like now. So I'm 278 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: assuming he asked that question just to see if I 279 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: would agree to come pretty much, you know what I mean? So, 280 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: um yeah, so after that, then, um, so what did 281 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: you What did you say? But yeah, I forget my 282 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: mother would allow me to come. But of course I 283 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: didn't ask her, you get what I mean? And that 284 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: started it. Listen. R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. 285 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: The charges they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. 286 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: They filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but 287 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: is easier to prove if you cannot hint it down 288 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: to a specific date. There was no date on the table. 289 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: What about the child? He ultimately had to face the 290 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: charges in a Chicago courtroom. He please not guilty and 291 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: post his bail and he's released. After R Kelly, please 292 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: not guilty go straight to a South Side church. He 293 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: goes straight to an event where he is admired by 294 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: young children. Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly having 295 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: sexual underage girl, and ministers, civil rights leaders in the 296 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: city Chicago wanted to play up the side of him 297 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: that did the I believe like cam fuck, and not 298 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: the side of him with the runting lyrics that kind 299 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: of went along with possibly having sex with the underage girl. 300 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: You are hearing from Surviving R Kelly on Lifetime. As 301 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: we all know, the Supers musical superstar R Kelly was 302 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: arrested on child porn charges for making that grainy video 303 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: with a fourteen year old girl in a sex act, 304 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: and in the video you can clearly see a mole 305 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: on the back of R. Kelly's back, which is the 306 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: mole on his back, But the girl would refuse to 307 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: admit that it was her, so the state ran up 308 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: against rock in a hard spot because they couldn't definitely 309 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: prove it was her. But Lisa Van Allen is with 310 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: me who lived with R. Kelly, who I believe is 311 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: one of his victims. Lisa van Allen, do you believe 312 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: the girl was fourteen years old and that porn type? 313 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: I know she was fourteen because we actually had a 314 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, a threesome with her, and at the time 315 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: he told me she was sixteen years old. I later 316 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: found out that she was two years younger than that. 317 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: So because we were headed to one of his video shoots. 318 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: On the way there, she told me that she was 319 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: going to be ginning a PC cruiser for her sixteenth birthday. 320 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: By me doing the math, you know of how long 321 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: ago the first encounter was, it was two years prior 322 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: to that. So if you're just about the term sixteen 323 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: in a few weeks and that would have made you 324 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: fourteen when we had the sexual encounter and the hape 325 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: that was on trial, she looked exactly the same, had 326 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: the same hairstyle, the same, the same, just everything, everything 327 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: was exactly the same, the same, It was even in 328 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: the same room. Well, I mean, Lisa, you had a 329 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: threesome weather right, But I think you gotten to know 330 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: her fairly well, and you saw her, You saw her 331 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: more of her than any of us have seen. And 332 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: I'm not judging. I don't care who does what with 333 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: who unless it is non consensual or there's a minor involved. 334 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: And I think everyone is so in awe, not me 335 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: but other people of R. Kelly that he has literally 336 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:45,239 Speaker 1: gotten away with felonies for decades. I mean, Lisa, his 337 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: marriage to Eliah back and I just all the time 338 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: of my head nineteen ninety six, she was fifteen, and 339 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: he coerced her to lie on the marriage certificate to 340 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: marry her exactly. And then when it came out that 341 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: the certificate was a fraud, her parents had a fit, 342 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: I'm sure, and they got the thing annulled and she 343 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: would never speak of R. Kelly as my understanding, Lisa, well, 344 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: I know he told me that they had to think 345 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: called pins and eyeballs. So no matter if it was 346 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: and her eyeballs or they wouldn't speak about it. So 347 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: I want to go back to you, Lisa Van Allen 348 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: with me who was lured into R Kelly's web. So 349 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: he comes up to you on this video shoot. He 350 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: picks you out of all these grown women. You're just 351 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: a skinny little team girl, ask if you can come 352 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: to his town, which I assume with Chicago. Did you go? Yes? 353 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: I did. I didn't go immediately. I waited about a 354 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: month to call him. The main reason was because I 355 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: didn't know what to talk to him about. I mean 356 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: that might sound a little crazy to a grown people, 357 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: but as a young girl, I didn't know what to 358 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: talk to a romman yet alone R Kelly on the 359 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: phone about. I didn't think he was gonna rush me 360 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: to Chicago. I thought we were going to have a 361 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: phone conversation. So I waited a while to call him, 362 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: and then once I did call him, it was no 363 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: conversation other than him asking when can you get to Chicago? 364 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: And then what happened? So I told him whenever you know, 365 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: he could get me there, and he put me on 366 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: the phone with June Brown, which is his assistant to 367 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: this very day, and June talked to me through everything 368 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: of how to get there. He didn't book it for me, 369 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: of course, because I was seventeen at the time. So 370 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: they sent me the money and they actually told me 371 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: to get my own ticket and where to go and 372 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: what hotel to go to once I got there and everything, 373 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 1: and then they brought me to him once I got 374 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: to Chicago. So they r Kelly and his people told 375 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: you how to book your own ticket. At seventeen, I 376 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: would not have known how to book my own ticket, 377 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: and you did and use the money. I didn't know. 378 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: I didn't even have an idea, So I had to 379 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: go talk me into get an ID, you know, telling 380 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: me what's all I needed to do to fly to 381 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: Nicole de Board joining me. Former prosecutor now criminal defense lawyer, 382 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 1: Nicole Deboard, You've prosecuted a lot of felony cases, and 383 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: I think this is diabolical. And I'll tell you why. 384 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: Because they knew how to erase all the evidence of 385 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: their involvement. It's not him putting it on his credit 386 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: card or his recording studio. She did it so in 387 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,959 Speaker 1: years to come they could go, oh, she just showed up. 388 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: We didn't even know she was coming. Yeah, you know, 389 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: it is heartbreaking to hear this account of what happened, 390 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: and I have to agree that what adds to the 391 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: credibility of the story here are the details, the many 392 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: many details about when and how and what was said 393 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 1: and what the instructions were. So I tend to agree 394 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: that this is this is a case that really ought 395 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: to hold up if the charges would just be accepted. 396 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: You know, alexis to rest shot writer online dot Com 397 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, what a mind? Let me just think of 398 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: the right word for how to mess with your mind? 399 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: Because one moment he's having sex with these girls, and 400 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: the next moment people are cheering for him and he's 401 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: singing gospel music. Hey, Nancy. The thing is, so many 402 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: people have come forward for so many years with stories 403 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: about R. Kelly, and the authorities never believe them. Reporters. 404 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: I have spoken with people who said that they knew victims, 405 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: that we're living with R. Kelly for years, We've written stories. 406 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: The authorities have done nothing because he is so famous 407 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: and so rich and so powerful, and just no one 408 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: believed these girls. This is one of the hardest stories 409 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: to cover is a reporter. When you write things and 410 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: you write them and no one believes it and nothing happens, 411 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: The police do nothing, it's so frustrating. Well another problem, Vincent, 412 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: He'll private Investigator, author of playbook to a Murder on Amazon, Vincent, 413 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: if you listen to what the families are claiming this 414 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: One father says that Kelly held Josin Savage, his teenage daughter, 415 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: that she looked like a prisoner, screamed like a madwoman 416 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: at the mention of his name during their very upsetting 417 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: last encounter. That this guy, the dad, Timothy Savage of 418 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: broke down crying, says she is brainwashed, that she weighed 419 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: about ninety pounds, she hadn't seen her family in two years. 420 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: She missed the chance to be with her grandfather just 421 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: before he passed away so she could be with R. Kelly. 422 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: That they have evidence Kelly locks up women in his 423 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: homes in Atlanta and Chicago, beats them and makes them 424 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: urinate in buckets, refuses to allow them to contact their families, 425 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: and it just goes on and on and on. Their daughter. 426 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: According to them, Joscelyn disappeared in the middle of the 427 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: night from a college campus and The two of them 428 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: are no slackers. They own two clothing boutiques in Atlanta. 429 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: They sold them to raise money to get their daughter back. 430 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: They've used up all their savings, everything they have. They 431 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: still don't have their daughter. So if she's going along 432 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: with it, Vincent, hell, how can how can it be proven? Yeah, 433 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: that's the problem, Nancy. I mean, at this point, miss 434 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: Savage is an adult. I mean, the police the best 435 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: they can do as a welfare check. But if she 436 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: says she's okay, the police have to go with that. 437 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: They can't get into the psychological piece with maybe there's 438 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: some Stockholm syndrome or something like that, which is unfortunate. 439 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: You know, if she says she's okay, police have to 440 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: go with that. And that's that's the biggest problem here, 441 00:26:47,920 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: at least with that case, unfortunately, Nancy. Crime Stories with 442 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace with me right now. Lisa van Allen, who 443 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: fell under superstar R Kelly's spell, but then it all 444 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: changed once he lured her to his hometown away from 445 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: her mother, to Chicago. Lisa van Allen, I'm hoping that 446 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta hear your voice today. Lisa, 447 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: what happened when you got to Chicago. Initially, when I 448 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: got there, you know, being so young, it was a 449 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: bit exciting to travel to another city and to meet 450 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, him, and to hang out and here his 451 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: music and things like that. But soon after that, you know, 452 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: that kind of died down because he asked me to 453 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: do a threesome with him. And the way he got 454 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: me to do it was he told me it never 455 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: had one before, and with me thinking that his girlfriend, 456 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: I felt, you know, kind of obligated to do that 457 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: for him if he had never had one before, and 458 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: he was a superstar, you know what I mean. I'm like, 459 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: girls are always throwing themselves at him, and he's never 460 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: had one before, so I'll just I'll go ahead and 461 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: do it, you know, for him. We had the threesome, 462 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: and after we had it, it just became and just 463 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: something that he always wanted to do threesomes with different girls. 464 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: I would get very upset. I cry more often than not. 465 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: I cry about it, and he would always try to 466 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: give me, like Pep talks about them, how you know, 467 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: it was just sex and it didn't hold any emotion 468 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: to him, and how a lot of times he didn't 469 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: know the girl's names, and you know, if I could 470 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: just do it and get it over with, you know, 471 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: so it would be a lot of trauma involved for 472 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: me because you know, it was something that I didn't 473 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: want to do, and I felt, you know, that I 474 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: had to do it for him, especially since I had 475 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: all already done it, you know what I mean. But 476 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: you know, once I realized once we did it, more 477 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: than once I realized it was a lie, but I 478 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: was already caught up into it and I ended up 479 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: living there with him. You know, he was taking care 480 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: of me. You know, I didn't have my job anymore 481 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: at the mall, you know, so it kind of was 482 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: like I really didn't have a choice. When he would 483 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: try to give you as you refer to it as 484 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: pep talks. You told me that he would say things like, 485 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: if you love me, you wouldn't try to change me. 486 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: Yes he would, Yes, he would say that, And he 487 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: says things that he would say that that's what his 488 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: mother told him. If if a woman loves a man, 489 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: she won't try to change him. So I'm thinking to myself, well, 490 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: him and his mother would know better than me. If 491 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: i'm you know, I'm yeah, I'm a child. What do 492 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: I know about what a wrong woman should do or 493 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: what you know to please a man? You know, so 494 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: I go off with what he told me, like, Okay, well, 495 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: I guess he's right. At this time, you were seventeen. 496 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: How old was he? When you hear these claims by 497 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: Jocelyn Savage's dad that they have evidence that R. Kelly 498 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: has beaten women won't let them call their families, makes 499 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: him urinating buckets? What do you make of that, Lisa 500 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: Van Allen? I believe them, I do. I also believe 501 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: that he is getting worse over time. You know, things 502 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: weren't as bad as they are now. Back then, he 503 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: didn't have a harem of women living with him. There 504 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: were girls who came and went and would be in 505 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: different rooms in the studio, and you did have to 506 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: get permission to walk through the hallways in the studio. 507 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: Of all that stuff is very valid. It's just go okay, 508 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: whoa wa wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait 509 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: what did you just say about getting permission? Right? You 510 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: have to call down to the runners, well for the 511 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: people at the front desk, and ask them for permission 512 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: to you know, go through the hallway. Whether it was 513 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: to leave out the building, whether it was to you, 514 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: if the room you're en didn't have a bathroom, whether 515 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: it's to use the bathroom or whatever, you'd have to 516 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: make sure the hallway was clear first before you could 517 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: walk through. But that's anyone that wasn't just the women, 518 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone that was in the studio for him 519 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: pretty much had to do that. And you know a 520 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: lot of celebrities have account it said as well, that's 521 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: why I don't like to work with him. So in 522 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: your mind, what was the worst thing you had to 523 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: endure during your time with R. Kelly? I would say 524 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: him having me to sleep with the underage or would 525 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: be the worst because that sticks with me, you know, 526 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: joining me alexisterres Chuck Vincent Hill, Doctor Bethany Marshall, and 527 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: Nicole de Boord to doctor Bethany Marshall, I imagine that 528 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: this would change you for the rest of your life. 529 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: To live through what she lived through, well, absolutely, because 530 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: getting co opted into a sex cult has layers of trauma. 531 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: First of all, she is persuaded and manipulated to go 532 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: along with him without telling her mother. So this is 533 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: step one of how cult leaders recruit their members, right 534 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: they cut them off from their family and friends. Then 535 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: they get them to leave their jobs so they have 536 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: no financial support, no way of leaving. Then the cult 537 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: leaders and this is what our Kelly did, is that 538 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: he got a bunch of other people to act in 539 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: concert with him to control his victims. I mean, this 540 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: is what we see in scientology. This is what we 541 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: saw and the Jimmy Jones culled. We see in super 542 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: religious structures is that there is one very strong cult 543 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: leader who then gets kind of like henchmen all around 544 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: him to like then have control over the younger, more 545 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: vulnerable members of the cult. And then you were talking 546 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: about the gospel singing. You know, it's so interesting because 547 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: all of these cult leaders are super religious, right, They 548 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: all think that they have the direct line to God, 549 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: and they use that to control their members. But I 550 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: think back to your question of trauma. To make somebody 551 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: engage in sexual acts against their will, I think it's 552 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: one of the worst forms of trauma that a person 553 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: could be subjected to. And this happened to our guest 554 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: on the show many times and in many ways, and 555 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: so this is something obviously that's going to stick with 556 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: her for a long time. To Nicole de Board, former prosecutor, 557 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: current defense attorney. Nicole, I don't understand why charges have 558 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: not been brought. I have to agree with you, it 559 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: seems absurd at this point that they haven't taken some 560 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: kind of action. They have someone who's willing to describe 561 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: exactly what happened and give it in such detail that 562 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: there's sufficient evidence for a case to go to a jury. 563 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: So to me, it sounds like it should just be 564 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: a matter of time. Guys, we are talking to an 565 00:33:53,880 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: alleged victim of r Kelly. Lisa Van Allen says, anyone 566 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: ever approached you about filing charges? Not lately, you know, 567 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: I do testify in the trial in two thousand and eight, 568 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: but not lately. No one has come before it. He 569 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: was arrested again. He was in Miami and it was 570 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: on additional porn charges. We seized at that time camera 571 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: equipment and twelve digital photos which we believed to the 572 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: child pornography. You understand that, say, Jenna, maybe us again. 573 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: I remember being at my brother and sister in law's 574 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: house and the detectives showing us steals. It wasn't pretty sight. 575 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: They showed my niece Robert and another young lady intertwined, 576 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: and I screamed at the top of my lines, what 577 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: is going on? What is going on? What is wrong 578 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: with this person? You were here from Surviving R. Kelly 579 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: on Lifetime. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank 580 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: you for being with us. With us right now is 581 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 1: an alleged victim of the musical superstar R Kelly joining 582 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: us now? It's R. Kelly's defense lawyer, Steve Greenberg. Mister Greenberg, 583 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Nancy. Well, I'm angry, 584 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: I'm concerned, a little sick to my stomach as No, 585 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: actually I'm not. I would not be angry if your 586 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: client R. Kelly, Robert Kelly, went ahead and turn himself 587 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: in that then I'd be happy, because it's hard for 588 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: me to believe, mister Greenberg, that all of these women 589 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: are I assume you've seen the Lifetime special Surviving R. Kelly, 590 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: that they're all lying and your client is the only 591 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: one telling the truth. Well, fortunately you're not judging jury, 592 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: so that happens to be the case. Well, I know that, 593 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm just asking you, how can that be? Sparkle. Sparkle 594 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: told her story back when mister Kelly was arrested and 595 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: charged Karon Illinois more than a decade ago, and the 596 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: jury didn't believe her. Then she's just retelling the same 597 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: story that no one believed. The young lady who she 598 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: claimed was in the video said it wasn't her. The 599 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: young lady's mother said it wasn't her. The young lady's 600 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: father said it wasn't her. So, you know, I don't 601 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: know why everyone wants to believe Sparkle when when the 602 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: people who are supposedly closer to the situation all say 603 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: she's not correct. Well, okay, you know what, let's move 604 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: from Sparkle. Who guys Sparkle is the aunt of the 605 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl in the video. According to the indictment, 606 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: the jury said that and not determine that she was 607 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: fourteen or who she was with me Today is Lisa 608 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: Van Allen, who lived with R. Kelly, who says she 609 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: was picked out of a group of women on a 610 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: video shoot Strippers Grow Women. He comes straight over to 611 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: a skinny teen girl and says, how old are you? 612 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: Will your mom will let you come to Chicago. She 613 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: gets there and he immediately enlists her for sex and 614 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: a threesome. Now forget about sparkling the incident of the 615 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl in the video who was having 616 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: sex with R. Kelly and got urinated on. I'm gonna 617 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: try to put that out of my mind. Steve Greenberg. 618 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about Lisa Van Allen, who's with me 619 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: right now. In Chicago. At that time, the age of 620 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: consent was seventeen. Now they have enacted that retroactive no 621 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: statute of limitation law. So explain to me how your client, 622 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: mister Kelly was not doing exactly what Lisa van Allen 623 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: says he was doing. Well, again, it's Lisa Allen saying 624 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: it years later. There's no evidence that what she said 625 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: is true. There's no witnesses, no photographs, no nothing. So, 626 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know why these people are coming 627 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: forward now. I know that there are dozens of people 628 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: who say that mister Kelly did nothing wrong. He was 629 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: always with large entourages, obviously as a performer. Well why 630 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: he always young women living at his place? Not only 631 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: is Chicago but Atlanta too. I don't know who was 632 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: living at his place, Nancy, I was never invited at all. Well, 633 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: you're his defense attorney. You've never been to his place 634 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: to place here where he's got two lovely women living there, 635 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: one of whose father is this savage guy who's running 636 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: all over saying his daughter is a hostage. Know, the 637 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: Chicago police did a well being check. Did you just 638 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: say he's got two women living with him? Yes, two 639 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 1: women who lived with him, Yes, lucky man. And how 640 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: old are they? They're adults? How old are they're adults? 641 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: They're adults? Repeat? How old are they? How old are they? Yes, 642 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: they're in their twenty And how long have they been 643 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: living with him? I can't give it the exact time, 644 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: but they were both they were both Oh I bet 645 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: you could. I bet you could adults when they started 646 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: living with them, I can tell you that. And and 647 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: the police went over and they talked to them. They said, 648 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: these are two lovely young ladies who are happy. I 649 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: know who they are, Jocelyn Savage and Osriel Clearing. I'm 650 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: looking right at him. And they're with a female quote 651 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: minder traveling. They all traveling an entourage with R. Kelly. 652 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: It's like a harem you know. In some countries that's okay, 653 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,479 Speaker 1: not so much here in the US. Well, I would 654 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: think that if there was a problem when the police 655 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: went over talked to them alone without it is whatever 656 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: you call a harem or a handler. Whatever, the police 657 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: found there was nothing wrong. So why don't we respect 658 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: that and say there's nothing wrong because that's what the 659 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: investigation concluded. Steve Greenberg, you know what you are. You 660 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: know what you are. You're a darn good defense lawyer 661 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: because you're like, have you ever seen those snake charmers 662 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: in the other countries when they sit in front of 663 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: the I guess it's a cobra, and they wind one way, 664 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: and the snake winds that way and they're playing that instrument. 665 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: Then the snake goes the other way and they go 666 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: right along. See that's what you're doing to me right now. 667 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: But you're making it seem like it's all okay that 668 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: Why not have these women living with him? They are adults. 669 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: You know what I watched the one woman giving her 670 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 1: video statement, she kept looking off to the side. Somebody 671 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,240 Speaker 1: was telling her what to say. And in her statement 672 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: that she gave saying how she's fine and she's there willingly, 673 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: somebody wrote that for her. They even miss spelled her name. 674 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: You want me to think she couldn't spell her own 675 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: name in her written statement. I mean, stop at Steve, 676 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: that this is a Lisa van Allen with me. You're 677 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: hearing Rchilles defense lawyer Steve Greenberg, and that's how he 678 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: wins his cases, the way he spins it out. It 679 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: sounds so believable. But you were there, Lisa, exactly what 680 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: happened when he asked you to have a threesome with 681 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: an underage girl? According to you, all right, when he 682 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: would ask me to have strength, you know, I'd cry, 683 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: I get upset and he would say, I mean in 684 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: one with the young lady that we're speaking of from trial. 685 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 1: When I cried about that one, he got upset and said, 686 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: what am I going to do with this tape? What 687 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: can I do with this? How can I watch this 688 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: with you on here crying? You know? I mean he 689 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: really got upset that he couldn't watch that tape. Later 690 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: hit me, I mean, he caused this uf the pie piper? 691 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: Can his lawyer explain that you know what the pie 692 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: piper is? The pipe piper is a man who lais 693 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: children away from their family. Do you do you, Steve Greenberg, 694 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,439 Speaker 1: know what the pie piper is? I do? Okay? What 695 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: if you know what the pie piper is what. I 696 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: cannot explain people's nicknames, and that's not really you don't 697 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: have to. He doesn't have to explain it. I mean 698 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: the evidence is there. I mean, go to C County 699 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: court House. How many women have you paid off that 700 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: were underage? Do you pay off people when you're not guilty? 701 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: I think twelve you do that when you're not guilty? 702 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: Or is that the right number, Steve? Steve, is that 703 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: the right number? There have been twelve young women with 704 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: whom he has reached civil settlements where he paid money 705 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: to make their claim go away in civil court NAT. 706 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: Beyond saying that people settle civil cases for all sorts 707 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: of reasons, including the cost of litigation. Any settlement which 708 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: I have never seen, um are my understanding when people 709 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: explain them are supposed to be confidential. And therefore I 710 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: believe that if I were I was not involved in 711 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: those cases, if they justif I wasn't a lawyer on it, 712 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: and if I say anything about it, I would be 713 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: subject to discipline from the courts here. So I'm not 714 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: going to let in that situation since rob is not, 715 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: Since since he believes that Robert didn't do any of 716 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: these things. Why don't they have rob and all of 717 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: us young ladies do lie detective tests and good prove 718 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: who's telling the truth and who's not. I'm not saying 719 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,359 Speaker 1: in the court of law, just carry it, just recording. Well, 720 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 1: would he agree to a lie detector, Steve Grammer, I'll 721 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: ask when will justice be sought? R Kelly's still living 722 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: in six properties across the country, six properties that reportedly 723 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 1: house women in each one. It is like a harem, 724 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: but it ain't over yet. Please join me tomorrow for 725 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 1: part two of Lisa Van Allen, along with R. Kelly's 726 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 1: defense attorney Stephen Greenberg, as we search for the truth 727 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: and pray that justice will unfold. It hasn't yet. Nancy 728 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,240 Speaker 1: Grace Crimes Stories, signing off goodbye friends,