Speaker 1: Who's built to be kidnapped? No one like to be
Speaker 1: sitting there and title to the chairman thronged by plastic.
Speaker 1: Really come Curtis for St Jackson, and I'm Charlie Webster
Speaker 1: and this is surviving l Chopper. That's once you brought
Speaker 1: down the drug wall. No one is built to be kidnapped.
Speaker 1: But Peter had to learn how the skilled would come
Speaker 1: in handy more than once. And for j this was
Speaker 1: just the beginning of his path of becoming a master negotiating.
Speaker 1: I got your brother for mistreat or anything. As long
Speaker 1: as you corporate, I need to hundre kids. What makes
Speaker 1: you think that I won't be able to give you KOs?
Speaker 1: That's for you don't figure out. They said, you're a
Speaker 1: little bit late. If you would have called me yesterday,
Speaker 1: I would have been able to give you three kilos.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I said, I give the gun. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work. If you know anything about my business, and
Speaker 1: you know that no one pays cash. So but if
Speaker 1: you want to wait a couple of weeks, I got you.
Speaker 1: I don't have a couple of weeks. Your brothers didn't
Speaker 1: have a couple of weeks. He said, how many kids
Speaker 1: you just I don't even want to lie to you.
Speaker 1: I'll make sure I'll give you whatever I got that
Speaker 1: we'll call you back in twenty minutes. And I got
Speaker 1: off the phone hit me. It sounded like, Saul hold that.
Speaker 1: I know the best person is gonna tell me. So
Speaker 1: I have a family member that comes from that group
Speaker 1: of people. So I called it. I said, hey, they
Speaker 1: cannot be Let me ask you a question. What do
Speaker 1: you know about Saul? Do you think it's whole? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that didn't That's who it is because that's what he does.
Speaker 1: He robbed and can't ask people for money. Now everyone's around,
Speaker 1: they're like, what they say? What they say? There's like
Speaker 1: twenty five of us literally in the middle of the street.
Speaker 1: We're comfortable there, you know, in the West Soup of Chicago.
Speaker 1: We're in front of Oprah studios. I said to everybody
Speaker 1: they want I told him that they had that, And
Speaker 1: so listen, guys, you guys are the people that are
Speaker 1: most important. You know what I mean. Let's kind of
Speaker 1: take a boat. Mm hmm. I could call the bet
Speaker 1: right now, save my brother mm hm. But we're can
Speaker 1: get and diet. I was accepted in twenty years right, then,
Speaker 1: or I could pay the three kids they are asking before,
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna have to make that money up. What
Speaker 1: do you think everybody says this is better to have
Speaker 1: kids with the way except for a couple of good
Speaker 1: duodes that were ridistance that they want to like call
Speaker 1: the beds, let's go to jail. True, seriously, those dudes
Speaker 1: are still with me to the Yeah, you're right now
Speaker 1: to pick the money up. It was a reality that
Speaker 1: the other day it was about a business. It was
Speaker 1: about money, and no one's ever gonna care, which is
Speaker 1: true because that's the fact for me as well and
Speaker 1: for you as well. We could be all good, but
Speaker 1: if it comes to your life and you're like sorry,
Speaker 1: rest later. So it was a lesson learns. They don't
Speaker 1: know this, but I could pay that money five times.
Speaker 1: Even imagine that we have to hide that we have
Speaker 1: money like that to our own people because the minute
Speaker 1: they think they have money, they think, well then I
Speaker 1: like him, but he could afford this loss. That's the
Speaker 1: difference between him still be and them getting killed. And
Speaker 1: people that were with me in close associates that worked
Speaker 1: for us, they're like, bro, get your brother back, get
Speaker 1: your brother back, forget this as if we're gonna get
Speaker 1: in that. He said, I don't care, We're all getting
Speaker 1: that whatever. Get your brother back. Man. That meant a
Speaker 1: lot to me. I was thinking that I might not
Speaker 1: make it out, like man, this is crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking who it could be of course, you know, and
Speaker 1: thinking about what would I do, and different emotions, you know, anger, sad,
Speaker 1: it's you fear. To sit there like that with that
Speaker 1: kind of silence and to be dealing with that alone
Speaker 1: was hard, you know. Of course, those little demons that
Speaker 1: come back, like reliving a nightmare gas again again. Who
Speaker 1: built for that? Who is bill? To have something like
Speaker 1: that happened to me think you're gonna die, not just
Speaker 1: get like shot at or something. But I really had that,
Speaker 1: you know, days of thinking you might die because they're
Speaker 1: gonna my brothers will pay the money and tell me
Speaker 1: any of this. You know, it was a turn at
Speaker 1: that moment. It was like the worst thing ever in
Speaker 1: the world. Did they do anything to you during that time? No,
Speaker 1: they didn't. Actually, I think the worst thing they did
Speaker 1: was not say nothing for some reason, like I don't
Speaker 1: know what they have in common, but they just the
Speaker 1: silence of not saying nothing, like like if they started
Speaker 1: talking to me or something, you're telling me they're gonna
Speaker 1: come me, it might be a little better than just
Speaker 1: quiet sitting on some plastic all there. You know, somes
Speaker 1: like torture. Yeah, Like I always think that the apprehensiveness
Speaker 1: and they're not knowing is far worst. Sometimes. How did
Speaker 1: that last? Of all three days? It was today? And
Speaker 1: realize that you see stuff in the movies, it's don't
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean? This is my life.
Speaker 1: This is something I'm living through. These people are gonna
Speaker 1: kill me for the money. And bring it back to
Speaker 1: the fact that how serious this life we're living wasn't
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking about my brother and I was thinking, like, man,
Speaker 1: was he taking everything serious when he you know, like
Speaker 1: we played with our lives, so whether we're gambling all
Speaker 1: the time, it's like we take it too lightly. Now
Speaker 1: I'm in the situation to that. How do I get out?
Speaker 1: M hm hm, there goes my phone. That's the kidnap person.
Speaker 1: I said, I have any one kilos and three? He said,
Speaker 1: all right, make if I had a thousand and let's go.
Speaker 1: Every ready, body the morning? All right, I have already
Speaker 1: been the morning. We spent the night at the house,
Speaker 1: all of us. We didn't, no one go home. I
Speaker 1: went out to my brother's room and you know the bed,
Speaker 1: you know it's there. It still looks the same. I
Speaker 1: was tired, so I laid down in his bed. I
Speaker 1: felt like religious, But what I'm gonna ask God, like
Speaker 1: to save me from this problem that keep putting myself in.
Speaker 1: I remember getting my knees and praying, and I said,
Speaker 1: I gave my brother back. I promised I'll change my life.
Speaker 1: That's why back. And that's what I said. I gusually
Speaker 1: had a moment and I was just thinking about like us,
Speaker 1: like I can't see what I like when I'm my brother. Yea.
Speaker 1: By this time, I'm I don't know, laying on the floor.
Speaker 1: And all day I was filthy again and just filthy.
Speaker 1: Just remember them coming and telling me, come on, let's go.
Speaker 1: Please let them be taking me home. Coming back in
Speaker 1: the van. He has like a bottle of some kind
Speaker 1: of alcohol cleanser. He starts springing me down, bringing the handcuff, sounds,
Speaker 1: spraying everything he touched on me. I could see he
Speaker 1: has clothes on. Thank It made me worry, like, dude,
Speaker 1: where's he taking? No, I don't know I could smell
Speaker 1: the alcohol too, that I could smell a cup from
Speaker 1: the Hey's sprained on me. Did you say that they
Speaker 1: might be taking you say, kill me? Yeah, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: like he's cleaning the handcuffs off, any evidence. They drive
Speaker 1: me for like an hour at least it was a
Speaker 1: long hour. I could tell we're in traffic. I hear
Speaker 1: the van stop. He pulls me off the back of
Speaker 1: the van. He puts handcuff keys in my shoe. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me those are the handcuff keys. Don't touch,
Speaker 1: don't move, don't turn around. Count a hundred and my
Speaker 1: eyes are still covered. It's sunny. It's like my eyes
Speaker 1: are hurting because of you daylight. I take too hands off.
Speaker 1: I try to see the dam, but he was gone
Speaker 1: like that fast. He was gone. And look, I could
Speaker 1: see a neighbor like I'm in the alley on the
Speaker 1: floor and I'm doing I can see that there's a
Speaker 1: man looking. He's looking like what the hell is going on?
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to take the handcuffs off. And I
Speaker 1: grab the handcuff key and I'm trying to take the
Speaker 1: handcuffs off. I take one off, and then I'm trying
Speaker 1: to walk away so he doesn't see me, but he's like, look,
Speaker 1: I can see him picking like and then I just,
Speaker 1: you know, stop and take you the handcuff key off
Speaker 1: and throwing him away. I threw everything away, like the
Speaker 1: last thing one is in times of pull up, and
Speaker 1: him got a handcuffed, you know, and looking around like
Speaker 1: where am I will before I jump out? I tell
Speaker 1: him when he's putting me on the van. I remember
Speaker 1: telling him, look, you got my phones. I said, do
Speaker 1: me a favor. I need one phone for me. And
Speaker 1: I had like the world smartest phone at the time.
Speaker 1: It was like a pink little phone. I used to
Speaker 1: use fash and and I didn't want to lose my
Speaker 1: communication with her again, like because sometimes really difficult to
Speaker 1: get older, and like I need that phone. He actually
Speaker 1: brought it gave it to me. I used that phone
Speaker 1: to call my brother. I didn't know where I was at.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm in the suburbs somewhere. I started
Speaker 1: walking around. I could look at the street and I
Speaker 1: remember like, okay, I kind of see the big street,
Speaker 1: and once I get to a picture, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: know where I'm at. I was like in the suburbs,
Speaker 1: off of up like first Avenue in Roosevelt Road, you know,
Speaker 1: SA Chicago, and I'm I called Jane. Look I'm on
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and like ninth Avenue and he's like, don't worry,
Speaker 1: I'm down the black ya he said, someone come get me.
Speaker 1: And it was just like for such a relief to
Speaker 1: be free from that. You know, what do it feel
Speaker 1: like when they took you out of the van and
Speaker 1: you knew they were going to release you and not
Speaker 1: kill you, and that I was thinking, my brother, thinking
Speaker 1: God like thinking out of that, I'm getting out of
Speaker 1: this one day. How much it costed me? Of course,
Speaker 1: and it changed me. That moment changed me to be
Speaker 1: living through that changed me. It changed me, but not
Speaker 1: made me change my life side. It changed it me inside.
Speaker 1: You know what way I felt that vulnerability, like wow, man,
Speaker 1: this is you know, to be hand called on the van,
Speaker 1: like man, this is what you get for being the man.
Speaker 1: You guys won't be the man. It comes on the cost.
Speaker 1: And to be taken like that, being pushed around like that,
Speaker 1: it was like horrible, I'm being helped captive, my life
Speaker 1: on the line, and I don't know how long they're
Speaker 1: gonna keep me here. I don't know if they're ever
Speaker 1: gonna let me go alive. That was real, Like, that
Speaker 1: was a kind of situation that we put ourselves in.
Speaker 1: It's funny how we looked. I felt the same way
Speaker 1: when I got knaped again when I went to prison.
Speaker 1: Like those feelings, I could tell you they were like
Speaker 1: identical to what I felt when we were in prison. Yeah,
Speaker 1: h didn't change anything you then did from then on,
Speaker 1: I did. I did how I was actually more careful.
Speaker 1: But it didn't stop you from doing anything. It just
Speaker 1: made me more careful. Yeah, I couldn't help. But wonder
Speaker 1: if the twins were attempted to get revenge on kidnappers,
Speaker 1: So will did you ever end up doing anything? I'm
Speaker 1: not a revengeful person. I don't carry heat. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna waste my time in heading to someone. But he
Speaker 1: let the lot start HM. With Pete being a little
Speaker 1: more careful, Ja and Val felt safe enough to get married.
Speaker 1: They honeymooned in Mexico in the small and sleepy country
Speaker 1: town of halper Zacatecas, known for its colorful mudbrick houses
Speaker 1: and cobbled stone streets. This is where the Twins family
Speaker 1: is actually originally from, the boy's father and wants a
Speaker 1: man in America was still living there as a fugitive,
Speaker 1: and their older brother Armando, now out of jail, had
Speaker 1: moved to Mexico to be with him. Since the minute
Speaker 1: we got there, well, it was the happiest I've ever
Speaker 1: seen her. One night and we're laying in bed, I'm
Speaker 1: sleeping and she wakes up screaming hysterically crying, comes up
Speaker 1: to bed and she's crying it's what I mean. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what you know, what happened? Like, what's wrong? Like?
Speaker 1: And she's like, We're gonna go to jail for the
Speaker 1: rest of your life. And I was like, I am
Speaker 1: like like I'm shocked, Like i'ma can I go to
Speaker 1: jail for the rest of your life? I only want
Speaker 1: one thing, honestly, I want to ask you for one thing.
Speaker 1: She said, just say yes to me. Whenever I asked
Speaker 1: you for to say yes. And I'm like, Okay, let's
Speaker 1: live here. I will never want to go back. I
Speaker 1: was shocked, and it's a please, I'll do anything as
Speaker 1: long as you stay here. And I said, all right,
Speaker 1: I'll stay here with Jane val Happily in Mexico. Pete
Speaker 1: was the only one left in Chicago, and he was
Speaker 1: busy looking after the business. M h February nine thousand four.
Speaker 1: Hear my phone start ringing, ringing, the ring. I think
Speaker 1: that that's act like every drug day a nightmare to
Speaker 1: have like twenty five minutes calls from a number right now,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Remember and saying my phone and there's
Speaker 1: my sister and she's like, b there in the houses,
Speaker 1: everyone's house feather, they're looking for you, and they're looking
Speaker 1: for JA. Don't go home, check this, just let the businesses.
Speaker 1: They're everywhere, and I remember that panic hit. I'm calling,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm calling checking everyone to see everyone's in pain.
Speaker 1: I'm calling my attorney and yeah, they said it's kicking,
Speaker 1: you know. They go to ten different places looking for
Speaker 1: my brother and I have his assist and there's a
Speaker 1: word out for our arrest. There's an depending and Diamond
Speaker 1: out of Milwaukee. Their search wards. I'm like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not good. And I'm sending that thing I wouldn't gonna do,
Speaker 1: and just figuring out what's next. The first thing I
Speaker 1: had to do is get our money together. I started
Speaker 1: like just picking up, you know, money and arranging night
Speaker 1: the drugs to be distributed, and and trying to keep
Speaker 1: all my workers in order because I'm not sure what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen. And once I get the money together and
Speaker 1: I put the money away and I gotta leave, I
Speaker 1: gotta making a week to Mexico. I crossed the linings
Speaker 1: into Indiana and I go back on brand new Mini Round.
Speaker 1: I just give him the cats, like I don't want
Speaker 1: that back. And I had my friend's mom, listen, are
Speaker 1: you interested? Would you like the new van? It's rand near,
Speaker 1: like it's totally loaded, and then give you drive me
Speaker 1: to Texas. I'll give it to you. Sure they're not understanding,
Speaker 1: like what okay? So we drive from Chicago to Texas, Florio.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like how many times did I take
Speaker 1: this trip? And now I'm going to Mexico this time
Speaker 1: with the nervous thing instead of coming back Chicago with
Speaker 1: the nervous pining, I'm leaving Chicago with the nervous pining.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing Stay Troopers everywhere. I'm like, I guess it's
Speaker 1: not good, Like I'm nervous. I throw my ideas around.
Speaker 1: I have no ideas on me. My friend and his
Speaker 1: mom's driving us. And then he's driving as well, and
Speaker 1: then I come to find out that, yeah, my license suspended.
Speaker 1: Bro do not getting that driversy ever again. Ye. So
Speaker 1: we drive to San Antonio where his family, let's say.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I'm just going about Pops drivels across
Speaker 1: the border. He always over there anyway. My Dad's like, okay,
Speaker 1: taking the sweet time, and I'm already feeling so anxious,
Speaker 1: like please, let's just get on here. I'm thinking like
Speaker 1: they can combine us. He's like that, let's take my
Speaker 1: chuck the chucks. I'm halfwy like breaking down and let's
Speaker 1: see like trumping off and putting it carbureted loidor and
Speaker 1: fill in the Ohio, I'm not, we don't have time
Speaker 1: for this. It was just like so stressful for me
Speaker 1: just to get to the border. I remember calling my
Speaker 1: brother to him, look, I'm gonna be there. We were
Speaker 1: crossing the boarding already had some noon like Friday or something,
Speaker 1: and just feeling some really to have crossed that border.
Speaker 1: It's to Mexico. We used to have this spot where
Speaker 1: we like the nicest hotel and novel Ardo was like
Speaker 1: the Hilton Guardien or something where we would stay, you know,
Speaker 1: all the time I remember till you just picked me
Speaker 1: up there A couple of hours later, you know, everyone comes.
Speaker 1: It's a vow jay, my brother, Mombo and his wife,
Speaker 1: they can pick me out. We're like, I'm just so
Speaker 1: happy to see so then like, okay, we made it out.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to, you know, catch my brother
Speaker 1: everything that I did, and everything was going on, just
Speaker 1: thinking that what was next. You know, it was a
Speaker 1: mess driving back home, just so much to catch up
Speaker 1: on them, taking like we're gonna to make our lives there.
Speaker 1: Driving back, you mean, back home to Mexico, like tot
Speaker 1: second home. We drove to a border and when we
Speaker 1: got to see Peter, the first thing he did was
Speaker 1: kissed the floor. He said, I just feel like a
Speaker 1: low was lifted up my shoulders and we just started driving.
Speaker 1: So here we are mean about Peter. No, the brother,
Speaker 1: and my sister all it did really good. Of course,
Speaker 1: things had dramatically changed since we were all together. That
Speaker 1: was the first time we were out together again. The
Speaker 1: intensity of those last days, and I'm looking for my
Speaker 1: brother to help me, like, give me what do you
Speaker 1: think my brother was a honeymoon and can't cool And
Speaker 1: I'm like bro, Yeah, you gotta get the hell out
Speaker 1: of home. My god, you gotta get this. I had
Speaker 1: to go innocent. We'll just say it out loud. My
Speaker 1: brother Teams said every time he was going to something,
Speaker 1: I was like having Finally, how did you say that?
Speaker 1: You don't forget? Let's recording this podcast was the first
Speaker 1: time the brothers have been in the same room together
Speaker 1: for well at least a decade, so sometimes there was
Speaker 1: a bit of unresolved tension in the room. Going back
Speaker 1: to Mexico, there was one person who hadn't joined them yet,
Speaker 1: Pete's love Viv, who followed her heart across the border.
Speaker 1: She got on the next plane out to Chicago to
Speaker 1: join the rest of the family. At first, there was
Speaker 1: a bit of uncertainty around what would happen to the business,
Speaker 1: and little by little I was going to kind of
Speaker 1: feed out and stop doing that like step son drugs
Speaker 1: and did the opposite happen? M hm. So my brother Peter,
Speaker 1: because we couldn't trust many people, he would just communicate
Speaker 1: with me. So I'm the one talking to everyone on
Speaker 1: the phone say I went, you know, I'm getting closed.
Speaker 1: I'm calling everybody to meet him. Are constantly on the
Speaker 1: phone because we knew that we mean him could communicate
Speaker 1: in a safe way. I'm kind of doing all the
Speaker 1: arrangements and I'm the one kind of talking to the
Speaker 1: to our workers back home that everything is kind of
Speaker 1: going through me and my brother had like our our
Speaker 1: way of community to exchangeing numbers, like we could, you know,
Speaker 1: we had a little cold to be like okay, and
Speaker 1: if we felt comfortable, we could call each other. I
Speaker 1: write this cold down and he'll give me the sequence
Speaker 1: of the number that could like unlock on my side
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, okay, I know what number he has,
Speaker 1: you know, so we can come to I don't care
Speaker 1: of the films are listening to that. Yeah. By the
Speaker 1: time they figured this out, what we had another phone.
Speaker 1: We start to promote some of our workers so it's
Speaker 1: not we're not there no more. We need eideneers. So
Speaker 1: our right hand man, who was with us for the beginning,
Speaker 1: we promoted him, You're gonna oversee everything because you're there
Speaker 1: in Chicago. We're gonna give you a percentage, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna give you the ability to start picking up your
Speaker 1: own customers. And now you could actually make money. And
Speaker 1: you gotta oversee everything, and he you know, he knew
Speaker 1: the business were just forever. So for sure, we just
Speaker 1: started promoting different you know, people to take a bigger
Speaker 1: tests that we're gonna gonna be able to be there.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't planning. It kind of developed as you
Speaker 1: needed it. There was no drug Enterprise for Dummies book
Speaker 1: out there, even though we write one. We should know,
Speaker 1: I'm not promoting that, like I'm not from This was
Speaker 1: what we feel is gonna work beast And as we
Speaker 1: went along, we adjusted. We you know, we learned the
Speaker 1: hard way. We're being mistakes and we were learned from them.
Speaker 1: And we kept calling we're twenty two years old. You know,
Speaker 1: we're twenty two years old. We're on the run. Don't
Speaker 1: forget I'm the run. Is is is a pretty nice
Speaker 1: on the run, if that makes any sense. Once we
Speaker 1: got to me and I felt like freeing to leave,
Speaker 1: Americans had like man like how they come down here
Speaker 1: and gives it's gonna be a wild So we have
Speaker 1: some freedom and you know, feel a little bit free
Speaker 1: in times he's and not only that that when the
Speaker 1: Marshall and DA came like they didn't affect my business.
Speaker 1: They had an indicting, but that's it, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: my crew still that they didn't golden and I felt
Speaker 1: like I was lost up ahead of them, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was streets. It was liberating, like okay, now I
Speaker 1: don't have worry about that, and I would make yourself
Speaker 1: comfortable when we got there. They had Bob poppanys and
Speaker 1: we had about cars. I remember my dad's advice at
Speaker 1: our all home to go to the leat our own
Speaker 1: be apples to drive and we're able to live our
Speaker 1: like I don't know such sweet like moments in our lives,
Speaker 1: our memories, you know, to you to get as a
Speaker 1: family and like really thank my wife and I you
Speaker 1: know later in Ja to really have that foundation of
Speaker 1: our apart little from each other. Mm hmm, son sense
Speaker 1: you know, it rains and the power of go out,
Speaker 1: and I still remember like vow making the best time
Speaker 1: of it, like it's the time we're born. No, we're
Speaker 1: gonna put your raids and we're not used to that.
Speaker 1: Let's push you raid, guys. It's just a family gathering
Speaker 1: and we'll just make the best out of it, like
Speaker 1: just doing the simplest things. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: me and my brother ever had that like as a family,
Speaker 1: and our family was always more like loving but serious book,
Speaker 1: you know, And I share this with You're like, I
Speaker 1: never played cards, I never played board games. I didn't
Speaker 1: play it against I didn't know what chess was. I
Speaker 1: didn't play scrabble. And you know that comes from a
Speaker 1: different family where she's like, let's you know, let's play this,
Speaker 1: and let's play a card game. And I'm a spade queen.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what spade and they'll laugh at me. Yea.
Speaker 1: He made the best out of We would all have
Speaker 1: fun no matter what should involved. My parents, you know,
Speaker 1: they were like you know in Mexican and then my
Speaker 1: dad and like, no, we're gonna do this. It was
Speaker 1: a good time. M h. Yeah. So that's time with
Speaker 1: your mom and dad. The older brother because he and
Speaker 1: his family, he's living there, so I'll take we'd all
Speaker 1: go to like the horse Traces with my dad and
Speaker 1: my mom and all of us. Now that we're down there,
Speaker 1: it was easier to kind of like to meet people.
Speaker 1: We're buying like different properties, so we're meeting old people
Speaker 1: that were in the villains like a long time ago,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like like, oh, he has the biggest
Speaker 1: you know, y'aba field in the state. You no, we're
Speaker 1: trying to dive friends, I haven't need at the same time,
Speaker 1: you know, to see what's out there. And it seems like,
Speaker 1: you know, like I said that you've got money. They
Speaker 1: respect you your names, like dad, that's a good name.
Speaker 1: And that kind of helped our whole situation. The well
Speaker 1: difficult thing that we can cool it was bringing the
Speaker 1: money down. So how did you get the money from
Speaker 1: Chicago to Mexico? For every problem is there's solution if
Speaker 1: we'll bring down a minute dollars at a time. They
Speaker 1: already checked the cars coming across. But we're like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, a man in dollars sits in the shoot,
Speaker 1: so as will be like, okay, we'll find somebody. Hey,
Speaker 1: you want a free car, you want a job, been
Speaker 1: under name put insurance, do all that. Here's fifty. The
Speaker 1: drugg was still coming the same way, same system. Just
Speaker 1: we're not there. I'm not letting no one like say
Speaker 1: control that, um do anything. They're not seeing us before.
Speaker 1: We'll hands and we will see our customers all the time.
Speaker 1: But we're just doing it like that be a telephone
Speaker 1: like everything you're phone and you know it's working out.
Speaker 1: Could you know, almost feels like they've never left. But
Speaker 1: it's just very time consuming on the phone every step.
Speaker 1: We had like a little meeting where we had all
Speaker 1: our workers come out together and listen, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be the new normal. Not we're not there. Peter's like, um,
Speaker 1: let's get some forward. It just covered before with it.
Speaker 1: Well what about everybody else? And like okay, almost say
Speaker 1: cause eight times okay, the US twenty one in their eyes,
Speaker 1: we're just Americans here on vacation. And see is that
Speaker 1: what you were seeing as No, no, not that has
Speaker 1: no but I see people started talking. We started going
Speaker 1: out like let's go to a little bar, and man,
Speaker 1: we walked to the bar like we're walking down the
Speaker 1: streets like so friendly and calm in the town, has
Speaker 1: a little set and we're anyone sits down and has
Speaker 1: their coffee and excused waters. And you know, I have
Speaker 1: a whole crew of all these little kids will follow
Speaker 1: over everywhere wet, you know, like teenagers now. Give them
Speaker 1: a little money and buying some shoes and stuff, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, goals, you know, tell the owner to be
Speaker 1: out some champagne. So they'll bring the case of champagne
Speaker 1: for the biggest city can closest to us, and then
Speaker 1: we'll go drink. I remember ask and I'm like, how
Speaker 1: much is a case of coronas? I think it's like
Speaker 1: dirty pacils or something like three dollars, Give me a
Speaker 1: hundred of ums and just give him to everyone everyone
Speaker 1: pretty pretty bud. We drove my dad mad, like we
Speaker 1: were driving him crazy because he knew what people are
Speaker 1: gonna think, like what are you guys doing. We needed
Speaker 1: some type of protection as well, so we got the
Speaker 1: police force and we started to donate just to be safe.
Speaker 1: They started working for us. Remember at this time in
Speaker 1: my twenties, Like you know, I really want to say
Speaker 1: that about corruption in Maxwell or anywhere even here, Like
Speaker 1: I do understand that the negative things that come with corruption,
Speaker 1: like what should corrupt someone a little bit? They're corrupt
Speaker 1: all the way and once they take money from you,
Speaker 1: don't take me from anyone. That system doesn't like work
Speaker 1: for the people because it will affect them in everywhere manageable.
Speaker 1: And I think that we didn't see that at the time.
Speaker 1: Work for us. It works sure what we're doing, so
Speaker 1: but we didn't see that next you know, they're cutting
Speaker 1: corners on their daily job. They're not really doing their
Speaker 1: jobs anymore because they're corrupt. You know, whether it's a
Speaker 1: government politician, they have their self interest at him. And
Speaker 1: all this time you're working the fans. There's there's new
Speaker 1: things we're doing, like at the time, we have to
Speaker 1: be to come to go with like you know, meeting
Speaker 1: people don't well start meeting people. We have products, we
Speaker 1: have cocaine, and we have a distribution. We don't like.
Speaker 1: We never stopped sending. We never stopped so we're always
Speaker 1: open to new opportunities. We're always looking for the next thing,
Speaker 1: just in case. It was always us, even though we
Speaker 1: were comfortable, always kind of starting the new thing while
Speaker 1: the good thing that was working for was going. I
Speaker 1: never intended to miss a phone call from any one
Speaker 1: of my phones. It was just so much going on,
Speaker 1: so many different people coming in and out of the house,
Speaker 1: different cars, Jay with his hundred phones, Pe with his
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just overwhelming. It was a very overwhelming.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand that either. I knew that the business
Speaker 1: did come first, damn fair, and it was into this
Speaker 1: situation we're in or I was in the shower. I'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh yeah, it was never missed a call.
Speaker 1: Definitely never missed a call. We could be in the
Speaker 1: middle of dinner or in the middle, you know, of
Speaker 1: a movie or whatever, and he would never miss a call.
Speaker 1: I mind my own business, but I knew that whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever was going to happen, that was going to come first,
Speaker 1: and it was it was important. What did you have
Speaker 1: a missical? There's so much a stake. My life was online,
Speaker 1: my brother's life, everyone's lives are all being you know,
Speaker 1: not only mine. My work is my customer. I just
Speaker 1: couldn't miss the couldn't afford to think that someone made
Speaker 1: a decision that needed my you know, attended, and I did,
Speaker 1: wasn't there and I missed the car. Someone's kind of
Speaker 1: say they live it. Money is now our phones are
Speaker 1: our lifeline. Literally, how many times did you have at
Speaker 1: this time? He used laying because now anyone we talked
Speaker 1: to a can trust. So that means anyone the person
Speaker 1: who helps with the cars, they got a full I
Speaker 1: got a false personally out a card of you's got
Speaker 1: a phone. I didn't trust the communication to like put
Speaker 1: us in the vulnerable say where they can find us.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that Peter and j they Michael
Speaker 1: managed everybody, and I feel like they implemented that system
Speaker 1: that they learned in McDonald's to their own organization, their
Speaker 1: own business. They felt like, Okay, well it's the fried
Speaker 1: guy just has one job to do one thing and
Speaker 1: make fries. You can't suck it up. In their mind,
Speaker 1: they just felt like, I don't think for us, We're
Speaker 1: just gonna think for you. We're a problem solvers. And
Speaker 1: not only do I want to solve the problem, want
Speaker 1: to solve it's the best way possible. So for every
Speaker 1: little situation was like, how are we going to do this?
Speaker 1: Now that we're here, we have experience, we we keep
Speaker 1: does the workers in our warehouse right, how are we
Speaker 1: gonna wait that? Like, you know what we're gonna do
Speaker 1: as you keep needsing my because the shipment for getting
Speaker 1: on the road, and that would bring that the Feds
Speaker 1: with them. Did that happen all up? It happened often
Speaker 1: nuts crossed to say we can't afoor to even take
Speaker 1: their chance. So what we did is, you know what,
Speaker 1: We're gonna have our drivers get a warehouse in Chicago
Speaker 1: and we're gonna make them get through them to our
Speaker 1: house and if we need to have them sit there
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. Once they're end, they're gonna
Speaker 1: sit whilst we feel everything good. We'll send our drivers
Speaker 1: and hid them to pick up the cocaine. And we're
Speaker 1: gonna do the same in a We're gonna do the
Speaker 1: same in Mexico. That way, one of them gets caught.
Speaker 1: They don't know where the rest of the warehouses are.
Speaker 1: When we saw that, but we don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about that. We took drug dealers that were selling drugs
Speaker 1: that we knew, and we said were you can't have
Speaker 1: no more drugs. You're gonna come work for us. If
Speaker 1: we were signing twenty five kids for us a month,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the doll knowlarge you're not making that
Speaker 1: you can co work for us. You're a manager now.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we could have them sit in the house six
Speaker 1: months at a time, wouldn't leave the house. We'll have
Speaker 1: someone to actually bring them food and they would sit
Speaker 1: there and take care of the drugs or account money
Speaker 1: all day. Later on, we rated our own warehouse as
Speaker 1: our own the lodges, we're out fitting our own vehicles,
Speaker 1: we have, we have our own mechanics, having mechanics, we
Speaker 1: have Carton lists, rug lists. We're probably a good eighteen
Speaker 1: people at that time? Did you think everybody was something
Speaker 1: obviously good? Around thirty people? And how many drugs do
Speaker 1: you each? Because I suddenly sold at least a thousands,
Speaker 1: you though day hundred twelve and the kiss of a month,
Speaker 1: they started beat our benefit not to take the drugs
Speaker 1: the Chicago Club we to make more money, so us
Speaker 1: get making these deals in l A and transported them.
Speaker 1: It was more beneficient. So the common practice of the
Speaker 1: drugs and the way it works is that wherever they
Speaker 1: give you the drugs, you're gonna pay the price. So
Speaker 1: if I get the drugs in l A, I'm getting
Speaker 1: an l A price from I get the drugs in Chicago,
Speaker 1: I'm getting Chicago price. Get the drugs in New York,
Speaker 1: I'm paying New York press. The farther it goes away
Speaker 1: from the border, the higher the price. It was beneficient
Speaker 1: for us to get the drugs in Mexico or in
Speaker 1: l A. And it was for Chicago. And I realized
Speaker 1: that the smallest person in our organization was putting was
Speaker 1: the partners of part ones, the person they actually went
Speaker 1: in handed the knoler to someone. It was so important
Speaker 1: because without him I couldn't make my business work. And
Speaker 1: I think like the same way where Amazon, if you
Speaker 1: take care of your drivers, you delivery for snow, what's
Speaker 1: your business based on nothing. Within a year of them
Speaker 1: being indicted out of Milwaukee and officially going on the
Speaker 1: run to Mexico, they rebuilt their entire drug empire and
Speaker 1: now have man stash houses across America, their own mechanic shops,
Speaker 1: car yards, thirty staff, and were selling keys kilos a month,
Speaker 1: easily bringing in three million dollars every single month. Not
Speaker 1: bad business for a couple of boys who are just
Speaker 1: twenty two at the time. But the twins were always
Speaker 1: looking for the next big thing, the next pathway to
Speaker 1: more cash, more notoriety, more success, and they found one
Speaker 1: in the form of a man named Guadaloupe also known
Speaker 1: as Loupe or TiO uncle h. The first sign I
Speaker 1: picked him up, I didn't know him. My brother had
Speaker 1: met him before, and so were I Then to go Twins,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like just go pick him up to
Speaker 1: the airport. Are you're gonna recognize and sees me? It's like,
Speaker 1: sobod you know, deals like oh cool, okay, we leaves
Speaker 1: an older man imagine white hair glasses. He becomes, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the biggest and most reliable cookie stupid with
Speaker 1: his head up to that moment. We have a bunch
Speaker 1: of issues. We get wrong. My work is can we
Speaker 1: get rob perform? You can else. I tried to stop
Speaker 1: the loads and say, read up, my house has been
Speaker 1: compromised again. Don't say no more cokey, and he tells
Speaker 1: me he can't stop that. Danny received dons of dolls.
Speaker 1: He requested that my brother and I turned over all
Speaker 1: our my favorite business. I want to warehouse. I want,
Speaker 1: you know, the guys that helped me. This is not
Speaker 1: like I can't do that. I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 1: Becaus like a week ten days later, it says, you
Speaker 1: know what it's fix is right? Come on, it's not
Speaker 1: it's fixes April, it doesn't five. I don't see him.
Speaker 1: I brought a bunch of folds. I'm just giving him
Speaker 1: some folds. That how you been? Whatever? We go, We
Speaker 1: sit down, were just small talk, well five ten maybe
Speaker 1: cool by and then um I heard the loudest bangs
Speaker 1: go off. It sound like a grenade went up. They
Speaker 1: kind of stolen, like what and I can hear it
Speaker 1: coming from like the back of the house. You know,
Speaker 1: you happened so fast, like honestly, it's just black hops.
Speaker 1: And I hear the kind of yearning after the you know,
Speaker 1: the loud bang, like yearning the island a little bit
Speaker 1: to understand that they were yelling no fellow please when
Speaker 1: I've seen their al S team as they're coming in
Speaker 1: with ristles. They come in and they're like everybody down
Speaker 1: m surviving l Chapo. The Twins Who Brought Down a
Speaker 1: Drug Lord is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
Speaker 1: me Charlie Webster. Our producers are myself alongside Jackson mcclennan.
Speaker 1: Research and editorial support is from Casey Hurts. Edit and
Speaker 1: sound design by Nico Palella. Original score by Ryan Sorenson.
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and myself Charlie Webster.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to know more about this story, head
Speaker 1: over to lions Gate Sound dot com. Curtis fifty cent
Speaker 1: Jackson presents a lions Gate Sound and g Unit audio
Speaker 1: production exclusive Bleak for iHeart Podcasts.