Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, October first, and on this day,
Speaker 1: twelve years ago, Amy Robot stepped onto a van, pulled
Speaker 1: out her breast, and life changed forever. Welcome to this
Speaker 1: episode of Amy and TJ. This is an anniversary robes
Speaker 1: of your life starting in a different direction. You look
Speaker 1: at it as what reflective, happy anniversary, said anniversary what?
Speaker 2: It's not sad because this was the day that changed
Speaker 2: my life. This is the day that actually made today
Speaker 2: possible and the reason why I actually celebrate it and
Speaker 2: don't mind and actually appreciate talking about it because this day,
Speaker 2: October first, is the first day of Breast Cancer Awareness Month,
Speaker 2: and because of that, I was asked on assignment to
Speaker 2: have my first mammogram in a Mamma van in the
Speaker 2: middle of Times Square on live national television. And I
Speaker 2: didn't want to do it, and I actually said no
Speaker 2: multiple times before eventually saying yes. Because I had no
Speaker 2: family history of breast cancer. I truly believed that it
Speaker 2: couldn't happen to me, and so I didn't feel like
Speaker 2: I needed to get a mammogram At the time. The
Speaker 2: recommendations were that if you had no family history, you
Speaker 2: could wait until you were fifty, So at forty, why
Speaker 2: would I walk into a Mamma van and have a mammogram.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do it, but thankfully I did
Speaker 2: because that was the day that led to my diagnosis
Speaker 2: at the end of this month where I was ultimately
Speaker 2: diagnosed with stage two invasive bast CAN.
Speaker 1: But again go back to October first. You look at
Speaker 1: it as what I know, people talk about cancer versors,
Speaker 1: they talk about other stuff. October first, for.
Speaker 2: You is what it was a liberation day because I
Speaker 2: was finally by going ahead and going through with this mammogram,
Speaker 2: I got information that I needed to then set out
Speaker 2: on a path where I could save my own life. Literally,
Speaker 2: the power was mine to have only if I knew
Speaker 2: what I was dealing with. And I think a lot
Speaker 2: of women don't make their appointments. They don't go in
Speaker 2: for their mammograms because number one, they don't think it
Speaker 2: can happen to them, and number two, they're afraid of
Speaker 2: what they might find out. They don't want to know.
Speaker 2: Ignorance is bliss, right.
Speaker 1: When was your next mammogram?
Speaker 2: Well, I had been given a prescription at the age
Speaker 2: of thirty nine by my obgyn and said you know what,
Speaker 2: maybe you should think about doing this. You're coming up
Speaker 2: on the age where look, it's disputed as to when
Speaker 2: you should go in, but you're around that age. And
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, I took that I had a prescription.
Speaker 2: I threw it in my purse and it it went
Speaker 2: around in there for about, I don't know a few months.
Speaker 2: I eventually threw it away and forgot about it. So
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to get a mammogram for ten years, Like,
Speaker 2: I was not planning on having a test that I
Speaker 2: didn't technically need to have, at least according to what
Speaker 2: I was hearing recommendations. So why would I get something
Speaker 2: that could be painful and definitely would seem annoying if
Speaker 2: I didn't have to.
Speaker 1: What decisions have you made in your life after that
Speaker 1: diagnosis that you think would have been different had you
Speaker 1: never been diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I don't think i'd be sitting here
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I know that I wouldn't have run a marathon. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have climbed the mountains I've climbed.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2: So many things, just how I've reacted to things, friends,
Speaker 2: I've chosen to.
Speaker 3: Actually let go, and.
Speaker 2: Decisions I've made about my time and who I spend
Speaker 2: it with. All of that has been significantly impacted by
Speaker 2: my cancer Diagnosis's.
Speaker 1: Friend's decisions factor into that, has a decision about who's
Speaker 1: around you factor into you walking into a van twelve
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 2: Today, cus I think so often we all take for
Speaker 2: granted that we have tomorrow. We don't think about time
Speaker 2: as our most precious gift and as a commodity that
Speaker 2: we should actually value and really take.
Speaker 3: Seriously.
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of times I would say
Speaker 2: yes to things, yes to people, yes to events, yes
Speaker 2: to time spent with folks. So I didn't really enjoy
Speaker 2: being around And a lot of it was duty driven
Speaker 2: or obligations.
Speaker 3: Or I made decisions out of guilt.
Speaker 2: But I didn't value my time and I do now
Speaker 2: and who, most importantly, who I spend it with, and
Speaker 2: how I spend it that and just even just my
Speaker 2: overall attitude about the small stuff that can weigh us
Speaker 2: all down.
Speaker 1: You remember the first time you laughed about something after
Speaker 1: your diagnosis. It took a while, you know, the first
Speaker 1: time you genuinely laughed about something.
Speaker 2: I don't know what time when I genuinely laughed. But
Speaker 2: I can tell you when I genuinely felt some joy,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna laugh when I tell you what it was.
Speaker 2: I think you'll get it. I think you'll understand. So
Speaker 2: when I came finally was released from the hospital after
Speaker 2: my double mastectomy, this was in mid November or something
Speaker 2: like that, my brother surprised me by showing up at
Speaker 2: my apartment when I got back from the hospital, and
Speaker 2: it just so happened that when he got there, And
Speaker 2: this is one of the few things we share in
Speaker 2: terms of our likes. The Conjuring. I had not seen
Speaker 2: it came to streaming services, and so I remember all
Speaker 2: bandaged up, in significant pain and definitely still on a
Speaker 2: little bit of drugs. Eric and I watched the Conjuring together,
Speaker 2: and I could get emotional thinking about it because I
Speaker 2: remember feeling I laughed, I jumped, I screamed, I forgot,
Speaker 2: and for those I don't know, that hour and a half,
Speaker 2: however long it runs, I forgot. I didn't think about
Speaker 2: what I had just been through and what I was
Speaker 2: still facing because chemo was obviously looming ahead of me,
Speaker 2: and all sorts of other uncertainties and unknowns. But in
Speaker 2: that moment, I was able to just exist and enjoy
Speaker 2: the fact that someone else was having a tougher day
Speaker 2: than me. They were possessed by demons and I was
Speaker 2: just dealing with a medical issue.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean, if you gave me a choice,
Speaker 1: which one demonic possession.
Speaker 3: Or breast cancer.
Speaker 1: I mean. I have seen them exercise people before the
Speaker 1: demon was gone forever.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes they don't go well though. It was just it
Speaker 2: was a moment where I got to It sounds crazy,
Speaker 2: but I in that you know, fear and jump scares
Speaker 2: and all of that, and not knowing what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: I was taken out of my own horrific reality and
Speaker 2: able to actually enjoy another one that was complete.
Speaker 3: Make believe you know what.
Speaker 1: I would have been looking into doing some science on
Speaker 1: horror movies. Okay, just hit on something in particular where
Speaker 1: people like to now direct whatever their fear and anxiety
Speaker 1: is about life in one direction that's right in front
Speaker 1: of them. Whatever that horror movie is, it's all directed there,
Speaker 1: and then when it's over there's some sense of relief. Actually,
Speaker 1: there's actually folks that argue you can feel better because
Speaker 1: you go up, up, up, anxiety and you know it's
Speaker 1: going to end.
Speaker 3: That ends in your more relaxed and you feel a
Speaker 3: little bit of euphoria.
Speaker 2: So that was actually the first time I felt joy
Speaker 2: since my diagnosis was the day I came home and
Speaker 2: I watched the Conjuring. So the Conjuring I love regardless,
Speaker 2: but it has a special place in my heart in
Speaker 2: my breast cancer journey, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1: What are you going to tell your daughters about when
Speaker 1: they should be screened?
Speaker 2: So my oncologist told me that whenever I was diagnosed,
Speaker 2: which for me was at the age of forty, although
Speaker 2: they do they did say for sure because mine was
Speaker 2: a slower growing cancer that I had had it for
Speaker 2: a couple of years. But on average, you should have
Speaker 2: your daughters be screened ten years before the date of
Speaker 2: your diagnosis. So my daughters will have their baseline mammogram
Speaker 2: at the age of thirty.
Speaker 1: What do they think of what they said to you
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: They are on board with that, and actually we're asking
Speaker 2: if they could get it sooner. I think there's a
Speaker 2: huge level of fear obviously knowing that their mother had
Speaker 2: premenopausal breast cancer with no family history, and I did
Speaker 2: not test positive for the Brakawan and bracket two genes,
Speaker 2: which is a good thing. But they've been tested as
Speaker 2: well and they don't have the gene either, so that's
Speaker 2: a little bit of relief, But still there's concern. And clearly,
Speaker 2: if you have someone as close as your mother or
Speaker 2: your sister or your sibling have breast cancer, you certainly
Speaker 2: are at higher risk.
Speaker 3: Period.
Speaker 2: So they are all on board with being preventative, and
Speaker 2: I know that they're taking their health more seriously, at
Speaker 2: least as they get older.
Speaker 3: Ava's almost twenty three now.
Speaker 2: She's sending me pictures of her running every day and
Speaker 2: she's keto like we are now, so you know, I
Speaker 2: think she's starting to realize just the power she has
Speaker 2: in terms of her level of exercise, her nutrition, all
Speaker 2: of that. And I think analyse will come around eventually.
Speaker 2: She's working out, she likes her hot yoga. But I
Speaker 2: do think that it's absolutely impacted their decisions, and it
Speaker 2: will more so the older they get, the more they're
Speaker 2: able to understand what we do know and what we
Speaker 2: don't know, and what we can do to prevent something
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 1: Make the connection between walking onto a van twelve years
Speaker 1: ago to where you sit now.
Speaker 2: Well, I am a completely different person, and I would
Speaker 2: even go so far as to say I was arrogant
Speaker 2: about my health. I had at that time all my
Speaker 2: grandparents still alive, which is fairly remarkable.
Speaker 3: My mom is one of nine, my dad is one
Speaker 3: of six.
Speaker 2: And to have looked at all of my family members
Speaker 2: at that point, and I don't even know how many
Speaker 2: first cousins I have, but it's in the dozens and dozens. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got these German Catholic families who were trying to
Speaker 2: follow the Pope's example at least a few generations ago,
Speaker 2: a few generations ago. Yes, that's what happens when you
Speaker 2: aren't on birth control. So I have a lot of
Speaker 2: family members to compare my situation to, and I just
Speaker 2: felt I felt like I couldn't actually have cancer because
Speaker 2: I didn't know anyone at that time who did in
Speaker 2: my family. And that was an arrogance that I obviously
Speaker 2: no longer carry with me, and I think we all
Speaker 2: have that. You know, when you're young, you feel invincible.
Speaker 2: I felt like I was a runner, and I relatively
Speaker 2: took good care of myself. I just felt invincible, and
Speaker 2: I certainly don't know, I absolutely understand. I have a
Speaker 2: humility about myself. I'm vulnerable in ways that I think
Speaker 2: are healthy, because when you recognize that there is no
Speaker 2: such thing as security, you act and behave differently.
Speaker 1: No question, again, how did I get you to today?
Speaker 1: What twists and turns? And how is your life different?
Speaker 1: That's what I was asking and making a connection between
Speaker 1: walking onto a van today and where your life has
Speaker 1: landed you.
Speaker 2: I think all of the decisions, and especially maybe the
Speaker 2: little ones fall through the cracks, but the bigger decisions
Speaker 2: in my life all now go through the lens of
Speaker 2: humility and vulnerability and the fact that I am so
Speaker 2: significantly aware that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. I
Speaker 2: will tell you this is something that a lot of
Speaker 2: folks don't realize. There are certain kinds of cancers, and
Speaker 2: breast cancer is certainly among them. Where you live under
Speaker 2: a constant threat of recurrence. When you have a tumor
Speaker 2: based cancer, especially a hormonally charged cancer, you recognize that
Speaker 2: it could come back. And I received mine. It's called
Speaker 2: an ANCA score, and it's your They give you a
Speaker 2: number literally that gives you your chance of recurrence low,
Speaker 2: medium or high, and mine came in in the higher
Speaker 2: echelons of medium, and I remember that day I was
Speaker 2: actually at Good Morning America. That was the second most
Speaker 2: devastating piece of news. I got past the fact that
Speaker 2: I had breast cancer because when I got that ANCA score,
Speaker 2: chemo was guaranteed, I knew I had to have six
Speaker 2: rounds of it.
Speaker 3: And then now I have to live under this cloud,
Speaker 3: this dark cloud.
Speaker 2: That is I actually I know it's figurative, but sometimes
Speaker 2: I actually feel like I can see it hanging over
Speaker 2: my head, knowing that my cancer could come back. And
Speaker 2: so every time you go back for your diagnostics, whether
Speaker 2: it's a blood test or just being checked out your
Speaker 2: lymph nodes, etc. By your oncologists, you live with this fear,
Speaker 2: in this threat that maybe this is the time where
Speaker 2: I get the news that I am metastatic. And around
Speaker 2: thirty percent of all early stage breast cancer patients become metastatic,
Speaker 2: and they can't.
Speaker 3: Necessarily know who is going to be.
Speaker 2: They can tell you or at a higher risk, but
Speaker 2: ultimately they can't tell you it's gonna come back or
Speaker 2: it's not going to It can come back in five years,
Speaker 2: ten years, twenty years, thirty years.
Speaker 3: Look at Olivia Newton John.
Speaker 2: So every time you hear these stories of these women
Speaker 2: who have survived, and then fifteen years later it's back,
Speaker 2: twenty years later, it's back. And so that fear was
Speaker 2: initially absolutely paralyzing, but then eventually it became motivating.
Speaker 3: And I chose a lot of things, but I chose
Speaker 3: us through that lens.
Speaker 2: I ask myself sometimes, if I knew my cancer was back,
Speaker 2: if I knew I had X amount of years left,
Speaker 2: what would I decide then? And if it's different than
Speaker 2: what I think I want to do, But when I
Speaker 2: look it through that lens, if I have a different answer,
Speaker 2: that's the right answer. Because life is short. We're not
Speaker 2: here to please other people or to make other people
Speaker 2: feel good about our decisions. We're here to love, to learn,
Speaker 2: and to value first of our relationship with ourselves and
Speaker 2: then with the people who we choose to be around.
Speaker 2: I just I don't think I didn't have my priorities straight.
Speaker 1: You gotta know.
Speaker 2: More so than I did before. And I'm always I'm
Speaker 2: a work in progress. Always, I think that's the big thing.
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to do.
Speaker 3: Better and be better.
Speaker 2: And I recognize in how many ways I still have
Speaker 2: to grow. But that's I think that humility I'm I'm
Speaker 2: still working through and working with. But it came to
Speaker 2: me it was a gift that I received from cancer
Speaker 2: without a doubt.
Speaker 1: All right. Well, the question I certainly have, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask when we come back, is there ever ever
Speaker 1: such thing as a good cancer joke? All right, folks,
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot laughs in this episode, But
Speaker 1: there is a such thing I have seen I've heard before,
Speaker 1: cancer humor. Yes, as we continue here on this twelve
Speaker 1: year anniversary of robots stepping onto that Mamma Van and
Speaker 1: getting that mammogram that led to her diagnosis and really
Speaker 1: a change in her life, in the direction of her life,
Speaker 1: but robes along the way. I mean you, obviously you
Speaker 1: have to laugh to keep them crying. Yes, And obviously
Speaker 1: folks who've been diagnosed and their families aren't all walking
Speaker 1: around in terrible moods all the time. You find places
Speaker 1: for humor. But is there a such thing, first of all,
Speaker 1: as cancer humor?
Speaker 2: Yes, and I highly suggest it. Here's the deal, here's
Speaker 2: the caveat. Only the person who actually has had the
Speaker 2: cancer can make the joke. No one else should make
Speaker 2: a joke. If you haven't walked to that road, if
Speaker 2: you haven't walked on that path, if you are not
Speaker 2: a cancer survivor, slash Thriver, please don't attempt cancer humor.
Speaker 1: Now close we are Nope, you leave it, Nope, leave
Speaker 1: it to us. Okay, now the next part of that,
Speaker 1: if we leave it to you, then how do we
Speaker 1: know how much or even if we can laugh?
Speaker 2: You can totally let Actually, you know what, this is
Speaker 2: so funny. I'm hoping maybe in the next month or
Speaker 2: two to bring on someone who I was able to meet.
Speaker 2: Her name is Rachel and she's a stand up comedian
Speaker 2: and she became a stand up comedian while dealing with
Speaker 2: metastatic cancer. And she gets up on a stage like
Speaker 2: once a week and makes cancer jokes. And she said,
Speaker 2: it's true, people don't know if they can laugh. And
Speaker 2: she makes it very clear, Please I need you to laugh.
Speaker 2: Laugh with me, not at me. But if I'm making
Speaker 2: the jokes, it's okay to laugh. I mean you and
Speaker 2: I not that this is exactly similar, but you and
Speaker 2: I went to that movie American History, Oh yeah, and
Speaker 2: there were a lot of jokes that were being made
Speaker 2: in jest around Rachel shoes. Yeah, we we were in
Speaker 2: the movie theater. You were the only black person a
Speaker 2: lot of white folks, and people weren't laughing because they
Speaker 2: were afraid to laugh. But I remember thinking, well, I
Speaker 2: can laugh because you aren't gonna judge me because it
Speaker 2: is funny. But it's one of those things like I
Speaker 2: had to look at you, like can I laugh, and
Speaker 2: that people around us.
Speaker 3: Couldn't laugh because they didn't know you well enough to
Speaker 3: look at you. Can we laugh?
Speaker 2: It's similar, Yes, yes, and so yes, it is intentional,
Speaker 2: and I do think that's an important part of healing.
Speaker 2: They say laughter is the best medicine, and I do
Speaker 2: think that we have to be able to laugh. We
Speaker 2: have to be able to poke fun at some of
Speaker 2: the shit that's handed our way. I mean, we do
Speaker 2: that about so many things in life. It's just you know,
Speaker 2: you can say you can't say anything about my mother,
Speaker 2: but I can't. You know, it's the same, It's the
Speaker 2: same rule applies. And I do think that it's helpful
Speaker 2: if we can get some perspective and have moments of
Speaker 2: levity in the face of really awful moment.
Speaker 1: I can't think of what would be a good cancer joke. Like,
Speaker 1: I can't see what what what do you poke fun of?
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard some I'm not putting
Speaker 1: you on the spot to remember, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: It seems so awkward to think of anything surrounding cancer
Speaker 1: to be funny. I know folks can find.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's I think it's those moments
Speaker 2: where like, Okay, my hair is gone, but you know,
Speaker 2: you're making a joke about your hair loss, or you're
Speaker 2: you know, the fact that you don't have you know,
Speaker 2: all of it, like or sorry, excuse me while I
Speaker 2: go puke right now, you know, or you know, chemo
Speaker 2: brain like you know, Actually it was great because I
Speaker 2: would blame stuff on my chemo brain, which actually was legit.
Speaker 2: But at a certain point I remember telling the girls,
Speaker 2: like telling them to stop fighting, like I'm in the
Speaker 2: middle of it and you're gonna actually and they would say, Mom,
Speaker 2: how long are you going to pull the cancer card?
Speaker 3: And I was like forever? And then we'd all laugh, like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, you just have moments of levity where you're trying
Speaker 2: to just acknowledge that this shit is hard, but can
Speaker 2: we at least laugh at the absurdity of whatever it
Speaker 2: is we were all dealing with or having to work through,
Speaker 2: and I think it's actually extremely helpful to.
Speaker 3: Be able to do so.
Speaker 1: You still use a cancer card.
Speaker 3: Why wouldn't I?
Speaker 1: I mean it's a hell of a house here. You
Speaker 1: got the cancer card, I got the black card. We
Speaker 1: just smacking each other the cards all day long.
Speaker 3: Oh really, well I got one for you. Yes, we
Speaker 3: can one off each other. The suffering Olympics.
Speaker 1: Well, blank anniversary, I don't know, happy anniversary, but reflective anniversary,
Speaker 1: but valuable anniversary and always worth noting. I ever want
Speaker 1: to skip over into these moments.
Speaker 3: It's worth noting.
Speaker 2: I've always been a big believer in acknowledging anniversaries, even
Speaker 2: tough ones, even hard ones, because you can look and
Speaker 2: see how far you've come. You can take a moment
Speaker 2: to look back at, even if it's something that's devastating
Speaker 2: or difficult, the lessons you learned, I mean, those are
Speaker 2: all so valuable. There's no point in going through pain
Speaker 2: if you can't come out on the other side with wisdom.
Speaker 2: And I do think that we look this is so true.
Speaker 2: I know you might not know a lot of cancer survivors,
Speaker 2: but you know a couple of them. Are they not
Speaker 2: some of the most joyful, grateful people you've ever met.
Speaker 1: As soon as you said I was trying to think
Speaker 1: of a I didn't have to think of the ones.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of an outlier. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of somebody.
Speaker 3: Who's there's always an outlier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but predominantly, I would say ninety five percent of
Speaker 2: anyone who any of you know listening who has been
Speaker 2: through cancer is going through cancer. Yes, of course there
Speaker 2: are dark moments. Yes, of course there are tough times,
Speaker 2: but I would argue most of those men and women
Speaker 2: have big smiles on their faces, are taking those vacations,
Speaker 2: are living out loud. I live my life like a
Speaker 2: country music song. I live like I'm dying. We are
Speaker 2: all dying. We are all one day closer to our deaths.
Speaker 2: So to say I'll do that in a year, I'll
Speaker 2: do that in five years.
Speaker 3: You know what, if you can do it now. And
Speaker 3: this goes back to some of.
Speaker 2: The quotes of the day that we pick out during
Speaker 2: morning run, where it's the advice is to pop that champagne,
Speaker 2: pour the expensive wine, burn the candle. You know where
Speaker 2: the dress you bought enjoy your life and don't think
Speaker 2: or save something for tomorrow or for the next day.
Speaker 2: I just the more we live, the older I get,
Speaker 2: whether I had had cancer or not. It's funny, I
Speaker 2: thought I had this perspective being the journalist that I was,
Speaker 2: and that we have covered, you know, death and destruction
Speaker 2: like we have, those reminders pounded in on us when
Speaker 2: we cover stories and events, like you think, but when
Speaker 2: it happens to you, it is a completely different experience
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, intellectually what you thought you knew
Speaker 2: just to in the depths of your bones, you feel
Speaker 2: and you know in a way you couldn't have before.
Speaker 2: And so it just it's it's a game changer, you know.
Speaker 2: Perspective is is something that is earned, something.
Speaker 3: That is it's not just given.
Speaker 2: You have to go through something to actually really know
Speaker 2: what it's like.
Speaker 1: Well, happy anniversary anyway, babe.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm happy to be here, grateful to be
Speaker 2: here twelve years later, and
Speaker 3: I'll be grateful for every day after that.