1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: That's racism. What the fuck? All right? This is it 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: could happen here the podcast that already started once, um, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: and then, uh, I wasn't recording. Okay, I wasn't recording, 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: but you are now, and that's and then that's all 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: that matters. But I am now. I got it right eventually, 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: and people need to just be proud of me for 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: eventually doing things right. Garrison, Hi there, good morning. We're 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: supposed to record this yesterday, but I got a horrible 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: stomach virus. Uh, so we we didn't because I was 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: I was dying in bed yep mhm um. But we're 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: here today because on the two of August, which was 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: this Sunday, there was a Proud Boy and affiliated other 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: boys rally in Portland that turned into one of our 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: by now routine running street fights through the city, this 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: time in a new neighborhood. Um. And then there was 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: also a gunfight in the neighborhood where fighting has happened 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: generally but usually happens and usually happens. Yeah, and there's 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: some I don't know, I think kind of meaningful takeaways 19 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: from this event, um, both in terms of what the 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: far right is going to be increasingly doing and kind 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: of some missteps among the far left in confronting them. Um, 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: And I think it's important to kind of well, let's 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: start with giving a layout of how the day went. 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: So basically, the rally was announced a couple of weeks ago, 25 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: right after a big series of street fights over a 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: a Canadian pastor whose church lost religious status in Canada 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: because he was so bigoted. Technically like this, this rally 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: has been planned for a few months, but it really 29 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: got boosted after this thing earlier in August. Yeah, there 30 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: was always going to be something on the twenty two, 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: because there was a gigantic street fight in Portland on 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: the twenty second, right in front of police headquarters. UM. 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: And so they there was always going to be something, 34 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: and it kind of started to take shape two weeks 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: ago after this street fight where I mean the picture 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: that went viral was a guy pointing what looked to 37 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: be an a R fifteen and a friend of ours, 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: justin Yao, a photo journalist. UM. That was later turned 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: out to be an air soft gun. The guy's gotten 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: a couple of charges from menicing. Um. But it was 41 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: a whole thing. Uh. They announced that they were going 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: to be doing this rally downtown. Uh and then locally 43 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: anti fascists announced a rally very nearby, and a lot 44 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: of people started talking about it became clear that it 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: was going to get numbers, and they switched. At the 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: last moment, the right wing switched their rally to a 47 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: completely different part of town. UM in the northeast side 48 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: of Portland, in the most diverse neighborhood in Portland, right 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: next to park Rose High School, which is the most 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: diverse school in the entire state of Oregon. UM and uh, so, 51 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, people alley left wing anti fascist protesters rallied 52 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: downtown at at Salmon Springs Park. UM. Pretty good numbers, 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: I would say, between three and four hundred kind of 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: at the height of the gathering. UM and then somewhere 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: around two is Proud Boys and other times and you 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: get in. You know, most of the most of the 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: left wing counter protesters who rallied were either from Portland 58 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: or from you know, a nearby city like Seattle or Salem. 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: Everyone was pretty local, relatively, Yeah, everybody was pretty local, 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: whereas a significant chunk, if not a majority, of the 61 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: right wing protesters were from other states, like including like 62 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: they brought out a fucking Enrique Tario, who just got 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: sentenced to I think six months in jail. Uh, leader 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: of the Proud Boys slash federal informant, was there as 65 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: we're a lot, you know, a lot of the same 66 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: crew who have been traveling around to fight people in 67 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: different parts of the country, including with They were a 68 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: bunch of California Proud Boys who have been taking part 69 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: in some of the events outside of the Los Angeles 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, city hall and whatnot. So they showed up, 71 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: um and uh, basically, you know, at first they're gathering 72 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: was you know, they put out a big flag, they 73 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: had like a stage on in the back of a truck, 74 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: and they were, you know, given giving the standard speeches. 75 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: The rally was built as sort of a free our 76 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: political prisoners thing for the people arrested on January sixth, 77 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: and for Alan Sweeney, who's been in jail for nearly 78 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: a year after he pulled a gun on a crowd 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: of random, unarmed people and journalists and last year shot 80 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of journalist with paintball guns, did a bunch 81 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: of you know, illegal ship. Um, so they were that's 82 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: how they were billing it. It was I don't know broadly. 83 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: It was very because we showed up kind of early 84 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: in the rally. UM, we kind of drove around the 85 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: parking lot a little bit, getting some shots from a distance. UM. 86 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: And they were definitely very paranoid from the beginning. They 87 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: had like a couple of rifle teams walking around the area. UM, 88 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: they had people in vehicles patrolling. We parked outside of 89 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: the event. We walked up. There were four local women, UM, 90 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: kind of all look to be in there in their 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: fifties or so, who were protesting, unmasked with signs in 92 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: front of but outside of the event. UM. And they 93 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: lived in the neighborhood. They just heard that the Proud 94 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: Boys were showing up and they were not happy about that. UM, 95 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: so they had shown up to protest. We walked over 96 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: to talk to them, and as we were talking to them, 97 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: we got surrounded by a group of of Proud Boys 98 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: and kind of affiliated folks who started you know, live 99 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: streaming and yelling questions and in a couple of cases 100 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: like walking up to us with weapons in hand and 101 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: asking if we wanted to fight. UM. And eventually we 102 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: kind of pulled back from that uh and talked to 103 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: some other locals maybe half a block away who had 104 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: just like stopped to watch the confrontation. And as we 105 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: were talking with them, we get surrounded again a second 106 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: time by by these folks UM, who again are both 107 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: trying to kind of menace us and menace the locals 108 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: that we had been interviewing. UM, And there was a 109 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: there was an interesting moment there that I took down 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: that I want to kind of quote from where they 111 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: they started like there was clearly this mix of like 112 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: wanting us to be scared of them and also wanting 113 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: to put on a good face for these locals, and 114 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: so they said to the locals at one point, hey, 115 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: we're being very civil and uh, the man we were 116 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: talking to look back at them and said, it's a 117 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: veneer of civility, like which I appreciated his attitude a lot. UM. 118 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: But uh so we backed off after a little while, 119 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: just because the people we were trying to interview kept 120 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: getting surrounded by proud boys and it kind of felt 121 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: like we were, uh bringing heat on them that that 122 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: we didn't want to be doing. UM. So we started 123 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: to head back downtown and while that was happening, UM, 124 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: a horrible giant fight broke out UM and it had 125 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: been I think the start of it was that. So 126 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: there were these you know, unmasked women kind of out 127 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: in front, and as they get surrounded, a couple of 128 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: folks in block came up to kind of try and 129 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: defend them. Like one of them pulled his Toyota Tacoma 130 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: up to the side of the group because people were 131 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: spilling out into the street, and so he was kind 132 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: of trying to block cars from the people who were 133 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: out in the street. UM. A couple of medics showed 134 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: up and we're just kind of hanging around out, you know, 135 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: at the edge of the thing, UM in case something happened. UM. 136 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: And it kind of seems like folks continued to flood 137 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: in and from what we know of what was happening 138 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: over downtown at the main anti fascist gathering UM, at 139 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: a certain point people said like, hey, we need the 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: block needs to show up and confront you know, the 141 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: fascists UH in Northeast and people couldn't agree on whether 142 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: or not they should go in numbers. There was kind 143 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: of like a failure to get consensus. So some scattered 144 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: groups showed up UM and the Proud Boys attacked UM 145 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: and there was a big ugly street fight that went 146 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: on for pretty close to an hour. It led to 147 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: at least two vehicles getting totaled. UM. They attacked the 148 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: drivers of a van who fled the van, and then 149 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: the van UH was flipped UH and totaled UM. And 150 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: you'll see like the disinformation kind of spent on this 151 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: is that Antifa was trying to drive a van into 152 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: the Proud Boys. But we we have video at the 153 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: very clear video show, Yeah, no one is in the 154 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: van because they've maced and beat people, and they ran 155 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: away from the van UH. And then later they're Proud 156 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: Boys like ran more than like a block away from 157 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: their location. They attacked a guy in a truck UM 158 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: and not just total distruckt but like multiple people were 159 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: beating him about the head and shoulders UM as he 160 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: was sitting alone in his truck. They occupied the parking 161 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: lot of a local high school. UM fired paintball guns 162 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: at random local bystanders and depress UM and the police 163 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: didn't show up at all. We never saw a single 164 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: police officer UH. In the aftermath of that, they were 165 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: like smoke bombs and fireworks and there's like paintballs going 166 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: off for like an hour and no, Yeah, they completely 167 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: completely left alone. They just royd like totally destroyed two vehicles. 168 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: And while this was happening, like right after this had happened, 169 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: and I think like as sort of the footage of 170 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: them destroying these vehicles, it started to go viral. A 171 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: right wing counter protester downtown got into an argument with 172 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: some left wing counter I say argument. The allegations are 173 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: that he was just hurling racial slurs at them, um 174 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: and trying to show a couple of black people video 175 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: of a lynching or footage of a lynching. Again, these 176 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: are kind of the the allegations folks on the scene 177 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: had made. Um. He got sort of chased out of 178 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: the event by a group of left wing counter protesters 179 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: and he was armed and had apparently been flashing his gun, 180 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: and a couple of them were armed. They were about 181 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: half a block well, they were like literally across the street, 182 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: so he was a good it looked like thirty or 183 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: forty feet away from them when he pulled out his gun, 184 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: got behind a trash can and started firing into the crowd, 185 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: and he his weapon jammed pretty quickly. I think he 186 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: got off maybe two shots, and people, uh, counter protesters 187 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: Jason Wilson, the Guardian said two of them, Um, but 188 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: I think only one actually got off. Shots fired back 189 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: and thankfully no one's bullets hit anybody. Um but and 190 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: he and he was the the shooter was arrested pretty 191 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: much immediately thereafter, which marked kind of the first time 192 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: the police showed up and there was an undercover cop 193 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: in the anti fascist crowd who got arresting the right 194 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: of arresting the guy who started shooting the anti fascists. Yeah. Yeah, 195 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: as soon as press saw the undercover cop with other cops, 196 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: the guy in playing clothes very quickly left the scene. Yeah, 197 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: he he ran away quite quickly. He might call him 198 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: burned now. So that's I don't know the rough shape 199 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: of the event. And of course, because of I think 200 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: a mix of the Proud Boys, you know, getting so 201 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: violent in the area they were rallying, UM and the 202 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: shooting happening. Uh, the anti fascists who were downtown at 203 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: Samon Springs Park, um did the thing that that demonstrators 204 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: do in Portland now, which is, uh, start tearing up 205 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: street signs and grabbing pieces of fencing and making barricades. 206 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: So they made a little barricade around the protest area 207 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: and they did. And this is again, this is just 208 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: kind of what happens at Portland protests if they go well, 209 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: if there's enough people, and then people just love the 210 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: fucking love building barricades. Um. I'm not convinced there was 211 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: a huge amount of purpose for building the barricades, but whatever, 212 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: it makes people happy. And there was this kind of 213 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: there was a pretty intense expectation that Proud Boys were 214 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: going to come out and attack at night. I don't 215 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: really think anything happened that night. I think they went 216 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: back to Vancouver and all got really drunk. Yeah, So 217 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: that's that was the rough shape of the day. UM. 218 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: I think I want to start by kind of getting 219 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: into some critiques we have of kind of what we 220 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: saw on the left that day, because it is this 221 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: the police completely abdicated, as did the city government, any 222 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: responsibility for the event. They announced ahead of time that 223 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: they were not going to intervene if people were being assaulted. Um, 224 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: because they assume that if you're being assaulted by the 225 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: Proud Boys, you're a combatant. Um. That was the assumption. Um. 226 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: And again, like these women we talked to who showed 227 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: up unmasked with science got like maced from behind and 228 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: shoved and stuff, and like absolutely, we're not combating. They've 229 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: basically just said that if you're near a Proud Boy 230 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: and you get attacked, we're not going to do anything 231 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: about it. Um. And they sure didn't um. So that 232 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: kind of necessitates and this has been this has been 233 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: an evolution of the police's attitudes for a while. For 234 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: the first couple of years of these gatherings, the police 235 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: would be there in heavy presence and would mostly attack 236 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: left wing counter protesters. And in recent last year in change, 237 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: they've just not shown up at all. Um. And so 238 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: again there's a when it comes comes to like sort 239 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: of the there's often this debate about like well, just 240 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: don't show up, don't counter protest them, and like they 241 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: won't get anything that they want. Well, when they show up, 242 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: they attack people. So like the last couple of weekends 243 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: there have been attacked. The last couple of times that 244 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: they've shown up in town late at night, groups of 245 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: people have attacked homeless encampments right, um, you know, when 246 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: they when they weren't heavily confronted. Two weekends ago, people 247 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: drove around macing and shooting paintball guns. A kind of 248 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: random bystanders. So the violence isn't predicated on whether or 249 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: not people in black blocks show up to UH to 250 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: confront them. It's predicated on the fact that they come 251 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: to Portland to do violence, and they'll find a way 252 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: to do it one way or the other. Now, the 253 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: fact that I think, you know, some form of community 254 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: response is necessary to this because again the local government 255 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: and the police are never going to do anything to 256 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: protect people, doesn't mean that I think the response that 257 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: we got on the twenty two is without criticism. We 258 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: saw some really dumb ship. I think one of the 259 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: first things we saw when we showed up was kind 260 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: of at the the outskirts of the event. There was 261 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: a guy in a a Grunt style shirt on a 262 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: bicycle who kept arguing with people at the anti fascist event. 263 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: And at the anti fascist event, yeah, he kept arguing 264 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: with people, and like, after I don't know thirty minutes 265 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: or so, one of them bear maced him. Um And obviously, 266 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: but so bear mace is great for bears. People like 267 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: to use it because it seems more hardcore than just 268 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: normally macing somebody. Bear mace also spreads a lot more 269 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: than normal mace. It's it's it's like gets carried by 270 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: the era a lot more so number one, when there's 271 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: hundreds of people around and you bear mace one guy, 272 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: you're going to get mason a bunch of people's faces, 273 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: which is exactly what happens. Yeah. Um, So it was 274 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: so purely for just like uh like obviously, so number one, 275 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: there was more of people were hit by that mace 276 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: who were on the side of whoever was spraying the 277 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: mace uh than who weren't, um, including a guy who 278 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: had been trying to de escalate things. Um. And secondly, 279 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: it's just like, no matter how annoying a dude is, 280 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: being macing a random dude arguing with you, um makes 281 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: you the shitty one. Which is a number of people 282 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: called out at the time. John the Lefty, a very 283 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: prominent Portland anti fascist activists, got very angry at this 284 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: because it was so it was fucking dumb and you know, 285 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be I don't want to be doing the 286 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: you know the thing that like the right wing does, 287 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: which is you take an event hundreds of people were 288 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: at and you highlight one example of someone being dumb 289 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: and say this is the whole event because it wasn't, 290 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: but it is the kind of thing you do see 291 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: at these events, and it's part of the problem of 292 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: a completely horizontal movement. Where the benefit of that is 293 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's durable, it's hard to infiltrate. The 294 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: downside of that is, if some guy shows up at 295 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: the Outskirts and decides he's going to be Captain Bear 296 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: mace Um, you gonna do, like what are you gonna 297 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: do to stop him? You know? Yeah, And we kind 298 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: of saw this trend continue over the course at the 299 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Anti Fascist Rality, like like after the shooting, when everyone 300 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: was all like amped up, like like you know, as 301 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: as you should be, you guys, because you you like 302 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: just got shot at everybody trying there should have been. Yeah, 303 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the block was then like very aggressive 304 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: with uh, cars and drivers and people just like in 305 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: the area who were trying to go about their day, 306 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: like really unnecessarily Like there was like like a lot 307 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: of people were like you know, if someone was confused 308 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: about why there was stuff in the street, and they 309 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: were like driving you know, very slowly and stopping to 310 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: talk to people. People, and a lot of a lot 311 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: of people, a lot a lot of people. You know, 312 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: there was a few people in block who were who 313 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: were very very aggressive with them, and there was people 314 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: trying to be people trying to de escalate and stuff. UM. 315 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: And that's just not super useful, um, because it just 316 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: makes everyone more n c And it's it's it's not 317 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: you're not really you're not like reading the situation accurately. Um. 318 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: If you're taking every grandma who's driving their old car 319 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: trying to go to like the grocery store or whatever, 320 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: taking her as like this is a massive threat, she's not. 321 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: She's trying to talk to you because she doesn't know 322 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: what's happening. And if you just scream at her face 323 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: and like threaten her, that's that is an anti fascism. No. 324 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: And also if you were just kind of randomly as 325 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: we saw, expanding out into different intersections and taking intersections 326 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: and yelling at people um or just standing around with weapons, 327 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: that just kind of freaks people out and does not 328 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't protect anybody. You're you're you're not your presence 329 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: at that random intersection, UM isn't doing anything. Um. And 330 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: And that was a frustration, and there were people at 331 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: the time, there was this one beautiful moment where this 332 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: one guy in block started saying to everybody, Hey, guys, 333 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: we have a defensible position back at the fountain. Why 334 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: are we standing at a random intersection. Let's get back 335 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: to like where we were. It's a much safer and 336 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: less stupid place to be standing. And then there was 337 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: some fucking dude with a paintball who said, why should 338 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: we go back? Let's take the city. You know, it 339 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: was my dude, what do you what are you gonna take? 340 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: You gotta fucking paintball gun and you're standing in an intersection, like, 341 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: come on, man, shut the funk up. Um. It was 342 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: just silly. Yeah, And it's the kind of silliness that again, 343 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any sort of comparison for the 344 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: kind of violence deployed by the two groups. And I 345 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: think it's worth noting that when the Proud Boys don't 346 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: show up, there aren't random groups of people in black 347 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: standing in intersections with paintball guns. It's just not a 348 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: common thing in Portland. Outside of these events, we were seeing, 349 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of the trends that got started last year, 350 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: people trying to like set up a spot to protest, 351 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: then defend that spot, like occupy this particular space, and 352 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: this isn't always a useful tactic, and it's not it's 353 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: not useful tactic for a lot of anti fascists demonstrations, 354 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: So like trying to occupy a four block city radius 355 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense when you have a two d people 356 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: in a crowd who are doing like an anti fascist rally, 357 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: like it's it's it made a whole lot more sense 358 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the rally when everyone was just 359 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: at the park because that was a very you know, 360 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: strong like like like show of strength um against against 361 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: any fascists who wanted to show up downtown UM. And 362 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: that it's it's a much much more defensible spot than 363 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: being spread up across like three different intersections. And I 364 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: think the Correallest Against Fascism, an anti fascist group, put 365 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: out a decent thread on this very topic talking about 366 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: all its kind of same criticisms and how there was 367 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: they They even talked about how you know, there was 368 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: instances of block like getting aggressive with like houseless people, 369 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: um and like threatening to like mace them, and like 370 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of this kind of stuff, which is 371 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: you know, pretty similar to like like Corrales it is 372 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: like you're you're engaging in the same violence dance mentally 373 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: ill people and houses people that like cops do. And 374 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: when you're when you're getting this overly aggressive escalating um 375 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: terms of like um this this like this this escalating conflict, 376 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: you're you're just you're just treating people like cops. You're 377 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: not actually try trying to do anti fascism. And and 378 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: that is always the danger is this has evolved into 379 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: a thing, a more constant thing is people have gotten traumatized, 380 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: because I do think trauma is a huge part of this. 381 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: One of the things that when you've been when you've 382 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: repeatedly been the victim of violence, both from police and 383 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: from right wingers, you get extra amped up and you 384 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: show up with weapons, and you know if if no 385 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: one shows up, if you don't get that that kind 386 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: of fight that you you went into this for days 387 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: kind of preparing your adrenal system for maybe you just 388 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: start yelling at some random person in a car or 389 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: somebody on the street who who transgresses in some slight 390 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: way because you're you're extra amped up. And that is 391 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: the Yeah, I think that needs to be taken into 392 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: account as like as much of a problem as anything 393 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: else that needs to be dealt with, Like that's actually 394 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: an anti fascist problem is um, dealing with the brutalization 395 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: effect that occurs to people showing up at these events 396 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: and makes them more likely to engage in unreasonable behavior 397 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: that alienates people, that makes the overall cause harder. You know, 398 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: there were a couple other things there was there were 399 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: there's a recall effort to get the mayor to not 400 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: be the mayor anymore. And some people were there taking signatures. 401 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: I signed the sheet. Um they were, you know, wearing 402 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: uniforms and stuff, and like a group of people in 403 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: block are very angry at them, like you're putting people 404 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: in danger because you're taking their info down here. And 405 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: it's like, guys, they're not requiring you to sign anything, 406 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: and not everyone who shows up at these events is 407 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: is worried about being identified as having been at these events. Um, 408 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: they're just in their regular clothes. Because you don't need 409 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: to be in black block to be an anti fascist. Yeah, 410 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: and you don't have to hide your involvement in anti 411 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: fascist activity. Uh. And in fact, it's beneficial if there's 412 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people who don't. If you're a more 413 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: extreme activist if you're also partaking in like anti police activist, Like, yeah, 414 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: I get it, you don't want your identity known, or 415 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: you're you're somebody who's directly confronting the right wing a 416 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: lot physically, you don't want your identity known because you 417 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: might get attacked. That's not everyone who shows up, and 418 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: everyone is safer if a bunch of random people who 419 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: might be perfectly comfortable signing a sheet like that also 420 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: show up at the event, and that's you know, somebody 421 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: got harassed, would be too strong where but somebody got 422 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: like critiqued at the event for like not showing up 423 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: in block and it was like, well, they don't need to. 424 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's fine. It's you want as many random people 425 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: to show up as possible. It's it's overall beneficial to 426 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: the thing you're actually trying to do. The one other 427 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: thing we should we should bring up is the whole 428 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: horrible debate that's been going on Twitter around like press stuff, 429 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: because yeah, what's happened at the kmart around around the 430 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: kmart stuff, because it's this kind of because it's kind 431 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: of tie into all of these same root problems. I think, Yeah, 432 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: so the basic thing that happened that that was kind 433 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: of the big development on the you know, because there 434 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: has been kind of a growing cult of smashing cameras 435 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: on the left for a while. Uh. And you know, 436 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: some of it comes from a very reasonable place, which 437 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: is that a number of people are in jail or 438 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: or caught charges because of of footage that that press 439 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: took and posted, usually people not wearing block as well, 440 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: usually people not wearing block or disguising their identity, which 441 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: again we could we could litigate that. And so there's 442 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: this mix of people who are just extra heightened about 443 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: press and people who are just like, well, anytime you 444 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: see a camera, it's fine to to to hit its 445 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: cameras are snitches? Is like kay, um and uh, I 446 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: don't know, there's there's there's a number of of I think, uh, 447 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: shortcomings and that type of thinking, including the fact that 448 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: like those same people tend to repeatedly miss right wing 449 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: live streamers who are in block and filming, and it 450 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: happens every single time they're angry at a marked press person. Yeah. People, people, 451 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: we people get very angry at people who are you know, 452 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: like the people in the block will get very angry 453 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: and hostile at like photographers who are you know, clearly 454 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: marked um yet ignore and miss uh like bad like 455 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: bad actors who are dressed in block secretly filming, who 456 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: get a lot of footage people doing crimes, and this 457 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: gets missed every single time and no one talks about it. 458 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: This is something that it never gets brought up in 459 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: the debate about cameras. It's like the people getting actual 460 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: footage of you doing crimes are people in block and 461 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: you just ignore them and it's you know. That was 462 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: this weekend there are a local journalist, Marny stab was 463 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: filming and she actually got assaulted by both sides. She 464 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: was maced by a right winger before she got attacked 465 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 1: by some left wing folks in block and had her 466 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: camera broken. Um. It was a very ugly situation. Um 467 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: people like people called her a slut, like some misogynist 468 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: and someone block did that and they smashed her camera 469 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: stuff and she was trying to she was yeah, yeah, 470 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: it's and here it is a whole bunch of people 471 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: with with like contradictory claims. But what happened to some 472 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: people saying that she attacked the block she did, and 473 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: she was trying to get her phone back she didn't 474 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: attack the block like whatever you want to say about 475 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: like because there's arguments about like she only complained that 476 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: block at attacked, or she didn't point out that she 477 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: had also been mazed by right wingers like whatever, that's 478 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: he that's not the thing to harp on. The thing 479 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: the harp on is for all that people claim about 480 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: her camera putting them in danger, them assaulting her was 481 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: filmed from like six different angles. It turns out when 482 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: you when you when you very publicly assault a journalist 483 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: for quoting for like you know, because you think they're 484 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: gonna film you doing crimes, you get filmed doing crimes 485 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: from many angles in high definition like that. You did 486 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: not prevent yourself from getting caught on hamra doing crimes. 487 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: You've only made it more so. Also, as you were 488 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: doing this, fascists were assaulting people like you weren't doing 489 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: anti fascism. You were focused on this one journalist that 490 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: you don't like. You know, some people are some people 491 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 1: are like saying they don't like her because she has 492 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: worked with Ford Fisher in the past, and they don't 493 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: like ford Fisher because of covered cheese done so like 494 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: it's okay because she works with this with this media person, Like, 495 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: as you're arguing and doing all this stuff, they're literally 496 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: fascists a block away assaulting people inside a truck and like, right, 497 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: UM's so you're not actually doing anti fascism and you're 498 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: also not preventing yourself from getting caught on cameras. It's 499 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: a it's a whole bunch of things that are frustrating 500 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: because I feel like people really aren't thinking through this 501 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: position fully and what are actually what is actually happening 502 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: on the street. Yeah, if you just get caught in 503 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: this kind of endless debate that really has no actual 504 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: answer because no one's no one's going to change their 505 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: opinion on it, and like, I don't have, I don't 506 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: have like I under stand the sentiment, but I also 507 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: understand how there are lots of cases where press coverage 508 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: is very helpful for these types of movements, and then 509 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: there's definitely ways to do it responsibly. But also just 510 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: attacking every journalist on site does not seem like a 511 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: very anti fascist thing to do, And it's, um, yeah, 512 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: I I I don't want to like, I don't want 513 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: to claim that that's like the only majority response. It's 514 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: a specific subset of the left wing demonstrator. Because like 515 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: later on in the day, like my photographer and I 516 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: were getting shots of the barricades, um, and there were 517 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: some block people around them, and one of them walked 518 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: up and very politely said, hey, would you mind um 519 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: not photographing you know, the people in their blind We 520 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: showed them like, no, no no, no, we're just getting like 521 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: barricades and stuff. It was a very polite conversation, and 522 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: I think a reasonable way to like, everyone has a 523 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: has a right to walk up to press and request 524 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: that they not be photographed, you know. Um. Obviously that 525 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily come with like a legal backing or anything. 526 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: But I think most press, if someone walks say hey, 527 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: would you please not like most people are going to 528 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: be relatively decent about that. You'll deal with some like 529 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: shitty people now and again. And I I think that, um, 530 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: we're harping on these problems because the basic reality is 531 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: that a response from the community is necessary for these events. 532 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: People do need to show up, people do need to 533 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: confront and oppose these right wing groups when they show 534 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: up in town. And because the local government, the federal government, 535 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: and law enforcement have completely have stated in multiple States right. 536 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: This kind of ship has been going on in Los Angeles. 537 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: There have been street fights with people stabbed in front 538 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: of police headquarters, in front of the l A city hall. Um. 539 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: Police don't declare on lawful assembly, they don't do anything 540 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: to to to confront the folks who are just like 541 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: some of the same Proud Boys who are here in 542 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: Portland were out in front of a clinic in Los 543 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: Angeles a couple of months ago, assaulting cancer patients for 544 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: wearing masks into a clinic. Like a response is necessary 545 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: in a community. Response is necessar area, and because of 546 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: how necessary the responses, it is also necessary that we 547 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: critique the response when it falls short. Yeah, because all 548 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: all of these things distract from like the much more 549 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: severe thing that like proud Boys horribly beat people on 550 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: some day, like there was could have died, yes, smpleally ugly. 551 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: And I know there's been people complaining that there was 552 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: like seven photographers watching this happen, And like I I 553 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: totally understand that absolutely, that is very and that's a 554 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: very fair criticism of press because I happen to know 555 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: there have been times when like right wing videographers have 556 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: gotten caught in a crowd and beaten up, and members 557 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: of the press have said, hey, they've had enough after 558 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: a certain point, because you do, at a certain stage 559 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: have a responsibility to step in, you know. Um, It's 560 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: like if you're a photographer and you see somebody with 561 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound, if it's safe for you to administer 562 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: first staid, it's more incumbent upon you to administer first 563 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: aid than to get a shot that said, like, there's 564 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, this is a this is an old 565 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: argument and conflict reporting. They that very famous photo of um, 566 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: a child. I think it was an Ethiopia, but I'm 567 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: not certain where, Like a kid who's clearly dying of 568 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: malnutrition and a photographer took a picture of them, and 569 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: people like critique that photographer and attacked him, and I 570 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: think the photographer eventually committed suicide. But it was this whole. 571 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: It was this whole like debate over shouldn't he have 572 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: done something? In his argument, which I do think he 573 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: was writing, this was like I if it was something 574 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: I could have taken action on, I would have. But like, 575 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: this is a kid who's been malnourished for months and 576 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: months and months, like nothing I can give them is 577 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: going to You can't even just give them food because 578 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: they can die when they're that malnourished. Just this whole 579 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: it's this whole question. I'm not saying that I think 580 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: the photographer is taking pictures of that guy getting beaten 581 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: in the truck should have charged in with sticks and 582 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: beat the proud boys. But someone could have said, hey, guys, 583 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: you like you need to back off, like he's had 584 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: enough something like that, especially because that there was there 585 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: was a lot of them, and yes they were outnumbered 586 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: by the boys. And yes, the bystander effect is a 587 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: real thing. Um, you know, more people are there, you're 588 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: you assume someone else is going to intervene, um than 589 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: everyone just like watches, because that's just what humans do 590 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: well in a lot of cases. It's like that. But yes, 591 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: they're there. There could have there could have been things 592 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: done to prevent this, to maybe slightly prevent this man 593 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: from getting beaten so badly because he he was. It was, 594 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: it's it is. It is horrible. It's horrible. Yeah, um, 595 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: And I do think yeah, And I also I get 596 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: I I don't want to like come at this by 597 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: saying I think that they're like the the anger at 598 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,719 Speaker 1: press is completely irrational. There's some very understandable reasons for it. 599 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: Both stuff like that and just kind of the general 600 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: basic fact with that if one group of both groups 601 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: of people are having violence against them and getting traumatized, 602 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: but one group of people is also making a profit 603 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: off of their presence there, that's going to cause friction. 604 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: Like there's a number of things that cause friction between 605 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: the press and communities. And when you kind of have 606 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: this commune unity of press who's come up and makes 607 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: a living off of photos of these events that are 608 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: deeply traumatic for the people personally involved, that's going to 609 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: be a cause of friction. But the fact that there's 610 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: friction and the fact that there's uncomfortable questions to be 611 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: asked about that doesn't mean that like, well, just attack 612 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: people with cameras is a is a reasonable response? Um, 613 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: And like attacking people with cameras and like attacking them 614 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: as they're like throwing soda cans at them as they're 615 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: getting medical aid, like that's yeah, Like like for people 616 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: saying like, oh, like doing this kind of stuff is 617 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: self defense because we're defending our communities from getting documented. 618 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: First of all, Like if you're wearing good block. You 619 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't be identifiable in the first place, that's why block 620 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: was invented. Um. And second like, throwing soda cans at 621 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: someone getting medalaide isn't self defense. In no way, that's 622 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: self defense against people filming you, Like, it's not, that's 623 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: that's you are. You are very, you are very past 624 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: that point. You're just hurting someone who's getting treated by medics. 625 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: That that's that's a you're doing at that point. And again, 626 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: you're not stopping other people from filming you because this 627 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: whole situation has caused more cameras to focus on specific individuals. 628 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: It's like you're you're not even achieving your goal, and 629 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: your goal is slightly confusing because you're not you're you're, 630 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: you're you're you're just hurting people who are getting medical 631 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: aid at this point, and that's not that's not really super. Yeah, 632 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't I don't see how that's really is in 633 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: line with trying to prevent fascists from hurting your community, 634 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: as fascists are literally a block away beating up people. Yeah, 635 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: and it's um, you know, uh, we talked to some 636 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: locals in the neighborhood. UM while while this was going 637 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: down and I think there is in Portland a broad 638 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: kind of support for UH people confronting these folks. And 639 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: there's even you know, we we talked to UM as 640 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 1: we were as we were putting on our gas mesks 641 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: and shipped to wade into you know, kind of the 642 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: tail end of the big street fight other people in 643 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: masks and armor who had like just come up from downtown. 644 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: We're walking past and there was like we ran into 645 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: this this young black woman, Mars, who was heading to 646 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: a church event UM with her family and who we 647 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: had just like parked in front of her house. And 648 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: she was like, Hey, what's going on? And we were like, oh, 649 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: it's the proud and it you know, she had she 650 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: was a community organizer. She'd had to stop showing up 651 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: at events because she had gotten targeted and maced and 652 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: and followed home and stuff. UM, and she was surprised 653 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: to learn that like the event had been moved at 654 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: the last moment to be right next to her, you know, 655 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: her community, and was supportive of the fact that people 656 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: were showing up to counter these folks. UM. And I 657 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: think that I think that the the the long term 658 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: solution to more effectively opposing these people is UM continuing 659 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: community outreach UM and and building ties within the areas 660 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: where they show up because there's a lot of it's 661 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: friendly territory in a lot of cases. Um Mars told 662 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: us that, like she thinks that the block showing up 663 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: at events like this is necessary, especially like there's a 664 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: lot of criticism about like, oh, well, these are all 665 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: like white people showing up, And her attitude was that, like, well, 666 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: that's it's kind of incumbent when other when like white 667 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: supremacist groups are showing up in black neighborhoods to confront people, 668 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: it's kind of incumbent upon other white people to show 669 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: up and protect and like put their bodies on the line. 670 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: Like that's that That's kind of how she she saw it. UM. 671 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: Another good part of like like like you know, a 672 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: like objectively successful part of this particular UM situation is 673 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: the mass mobilization online of the anti fascist resistance at 674 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: the original meeting spot, which successfully. There was so much 675 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: talk about it that the fascists got scared away, Like 676 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: they got scared. There's even and they had to meet 677 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: inside a kmart parking a lot. Now, yes, they they 678 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: did violence outside of that, but they kept they kept 679 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: the you know, the mobilization online um, and they like 680 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, preparing for the in person thing in downtown, 681 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: got the fascist away from downtown, got the fascist away 682 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: from the homeless encampments downtown that they've been targeting the 683 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: past few weeks. Like that was very successful, um, in 684 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: terms of keeping fascists out of downtown and keeping them 685 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 1: and keeping you know, a large mob of proud boys 686 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: away from just running through a homeless encampment beating up people, um, 687 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: as they've done in the past. So that is like, 688 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of positive things, that is absolutely 689 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: very very good. And there was a lot of anti 690 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: fascists on the ground right, Like we're talking about a 691 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: very all of our critiques are talking about a very 692 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: small group of people because there were there were hundreds 693 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: of people on the ground. A lot of block was 694 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: doing a very good job keeping keeping you know, people protected, 695 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: keeping certain spots that secured, especially at Samon Springs. Yeah. 696 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: And there was a right wing live stream where they 697 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: like drove past the counter protest event part of and 698 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: said like it's a sea of black, we shouldn't go 699 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: down there. Um. And yeah, that that is when folks 700 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: show up. It does protect certain areas, and kind of 701 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: one of the shortcomings that isn't a moral shortcoming of 702 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: the response was kind of the the fact that when 703 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: they showed up in a different location there, there was 704 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: not really a very a very good concerted response to 705 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: like getting people out, and so you kind of have 706 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: really unclear, isolated small groups of people in blocks showing 707 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: up and so they were outnumbered and it didn't like 708 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: the confrontation with them in Northeast didn't go super well. 709 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: They weren't able to have enough people there to show 710 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: up a strong resistance. Yeah. Yeah, because like when back 711 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: at Salmon Springs in downtown, it's a lot of like 712 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: rumors like how much a block is going over to 713 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: the kmart? Isn't just a little bit? Is a lot? 714 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: Like it was very unclear um, and that that part 715 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,919 Speaker 1: was because of the location change and people debating whether 716 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: or not they should go to the to the kmart 717 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: where the Proud Boys are at that that that is 718 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: kind of the root of all of like the kind 719 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: of the the issues that came up that day just 720 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: because of the crowd size got split. It was very 721 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: it was very awkward. This led you know, there wasn't enough, 722 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough anti fascism blocked to like really actively 723 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: opposed the Proud Boys. So then they started, you know, 724 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: focusing on a few of the journalists who they did 725 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 1: not like there, and that's kind of caused that. That's 726 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: kind of why how that problem got got to that 727 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: certain point, and they weren't able to know, really show 728 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: a good a good defense when when the Proud Boys 729 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: started attacking and pushing people out. Um, so you know 730 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: there's a few a few you know, logistical things that 731 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: are you know that that just is a hard problem 732 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: like that, like that is a very difficult thing to 733 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: figure out on the ground. Um, I'm yeah, that's yeah, 734 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: It's totally sympathize with an organizational problem and a pretty 735 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: new one, and like you can't you know, this is 736 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: an ongoing adaptation thing and I'm not really sure what 737 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: the long term solution to that is going to be. 738 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,919 Speaker 1: And I think the fact that there was an armed 739 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: attack on the pro test downtown one of the things 740 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: I'm worried about going forward is that, like, now that 741 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: line has been crossed, this isn't the first time there's 742 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: been gunfire at one of these events. There's happened a 743 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: couple of times. Uh, this is the first time though, 744 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: that there's been an exchange of fire, and that's worrisome 745 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: and it's kind of hard to tell like where that's 746 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: going to go, and especially if what I think makes 747 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: this a particular dangers that when we see deadly violence 748 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: like we saw with um Um j Danielson and Michael 749 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: Ryanol last year, like we saw with Skyler Journe again 750 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: firing a gun into a crowd. Um. Both of those 751 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: two situations just mentioned happened at parking garages. This one 752 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: happened out in front of a pizza joint, a block 753 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: and a half something like that away from the main gathering. 754 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: The really violent ship always happens on the periphery, and 755 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,959 Speaker 1: it always happens between small groups of people, sometimes just individuals. 756 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: And I'm worried that if if there isn't a better 757 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: solution figured out for dealing with Okay, they changed location, 758 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 1: they're showing up in numbers here. We've already got hundreds 759 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: of people here who comes over to the new location. 760 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: How many of them come? If that isn't kind of 761 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: settled in a in a concerted way, you're going to 762 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: increasingly have small groups of people, most of whom are 763 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: probably packing firearms running into each other on the peripheries 764 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: of events, and that is a fucking recipe for for 765 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: people getting shot to death. Like one other good thing 766 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: is when anti fascists did fire back because they were 767 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: being fired upon, they were absolutely right to This was 768 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: one of the better instances of like how they actually fired, 769 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: Like you know, you talked about how they were how 770 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: all of like the bullet packs we found were like 771 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: lower onto the ground. None of them cracked the windows 772 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: of the building. So they were shooting low. Yeah, and 773 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: they weren't. They weren't shooting someone as they run away. 774 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: They weren't trying to shoot you know, like a moving 775 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: vehicle or a moving target. It was very like you know, 776 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: like focus firing at a stationary person who was firing 777 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: on them. They took effective cover between the wheels and 778 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 1: with wheels and engine blocks of cars between them, um, 779 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: and they aimed low. It was very very effective and 780 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: I think very justified self defense. Yeah. Yeah, So I 781 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: think that kind of wraps up most of what happened, 782 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: But we could have focused more on what the Proud 783 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: Boys did. But I'm pretty sure everyone kind of knows 784 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: that they're bad and the bad things. If you're listening 785 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: to this, you know they're bad and they did bad things. 786 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: There's no there's no equivalence between like the level of 787 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: violence deployed because uh, you know, in terms of severe injuries. Uh, 788 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty one sided. And like I'm we're not 789 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: trying to like backseat activist here by talking to you know, 790 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: by critiquing stuff. But like as much as people find 791 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: it frustrating, optics do matter because there is more of 792 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: them than us, Like, we can't we can't win this 793 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: battle without without optics. So all the time they gets, 794 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: they gets dedicated to talking about, oh, here's how much 795 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 1: Antifa is attacking you know, random people filming. All that 796 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: distracts from the actual like brutal assault that happened, um 797 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: bye by the Proud Boys. You know. So all of 798 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 1: these things do do are in the long run because unfortunately, 799 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: um there is there is a lot of them, and 800 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: for now, at least, we optics are things that needs 801 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: to be considered if we want to have any kind 802 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: of success at this type of organizing. Yeah, and I 803 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,439 Speaker 1: also think that just um obviously like part of why 804 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: we're not focusing on the Proud Boys as much as 805 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: that everyone listening to this knows they're dangerous, uh, And 806 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: it's much more effective to talk about, Hey, what were 807 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: the shortcomings on our side this event? What are the 808 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 1: things that like could be done or need to be 809 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,240 Speaker 1: done better in order to improve people's safety and approve 810 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: the efficacy of the resistance to these groups, because that's 811 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: what people are actually going to listen to, you know. 812 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, ye, all right, that's an episode. Get 813 00:42:46,760 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: out of here, go home, you're drunk. M