1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. We 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: explored some of the big money issues in the world 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: of sports. I'm Michael Barn I'm Scarlett Fell, and we're 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: talking about surfing. Oh man, that's you know what if 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I am one of those people where I have to 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: learn to swim because I always wanted to surf. I 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: always wanted to get on a wave and do that thing. 8 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: You know, now, a small wave. Now I'm talking like 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: a Greg Brady wave. I'm not talking about those those 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: waves where you know it's like the side of a building. Whatever. 11 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: To talk with us about surfing, he is Eric Logan, 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: chief executive Officer of the World Surf League. Eric, thank 13 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: of Sports. As pleasure to be here. And just for 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: a quick note, just so you know, I born and 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: raised in Oklahoma, did not start surfing until I was 17 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: forty one couldn't run the other. So there you go. 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: See why I don't I want to tell you how 19 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: many years I got on you over the forty one, 20 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: but I want to start. You know, Let's put it 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: this way. This is this is how old I am. 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: I remember watching wide World of Sports and watching the 23 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: Duke kahana Moko Classic where the surfers would get out 24 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: and Scarlett is looking at me like, what the hell 25 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: are you talking about? Now? I mean he was he 26 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: was the man that led the way in surfing. They said, 27 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: Worldwide of Sports. Yeahs you lost her at spanning the Globe. 28 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Well tell me now, because the WSL it first started 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six to what it is today, tell me 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: how the sport and the league has evolved. Well, you 31 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: know what, it's a it's a great it's a great story. 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: But I think trying to picking up your thread from 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the legendary Duke Kahanako Um. You know back in nineteen 34 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: seventy six he was on the north shore of Olahu 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: and the first professional event started. Then the surfing has 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: been around since the ancient Polondies, as would Duke. I mean, 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: Eddie A. Cow is probably most known for being in 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: the seventies of being around when the start of the 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: sport happened. And you know, flash forward almost five decades, 40 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: because we're coming up on the fiftieth anniversary. The sports 41 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: comes through a lot of transformations. Where we are today 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: is we have an amazing ownership structure that has come 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: in and centralized and professionalize the sport. And what we 44 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: do is focus on building the largest, biggest, most interactive 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: platform for professional surfing and what professional surfing is. Because 46 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: prior to me going, I mean, I'm sure some of 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: your listeners probably were like, this is a thing. So 48 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: I ran Oprah Winfrey's companies for ten years and when 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: I left to go run the WSL, everybody was excited. 50 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: But then they go, is that a thing. I'm like, yes, 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: it's a thing, and so professional surfing this thing. We're 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: an Olympic sport for the second coming up. But you 53 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: know what we do is we travel around the world. 54 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: We'll do events in Australia, Brazil, Portugal, Tahiti, Hawaii, United States, Mexico, 55 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: El Salvador, and at the end of each year we 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: crown the men and women's World champions. And from that, 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: the way the organization in the company is is that 58 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: we're very unique that we control the entire pathway of 59 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: the sport, so in a way that you would think 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: that in baseball there's a double A, triple A and 61 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: the professionals. There's tiers to our sport as well. So 62 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: We've spent a lot of time making sure that the 63 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: pathway is great and that the company is doing what 64 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: it needs to do in terms of raising the profile 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: of all these servers. So in baseball there's the MLB, 66 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: but then Japan has its own baseball league, Korea has 67 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: its own baseball league. Other countries have their own leagues. 68 00:03:54,400 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Because you hold events year round across the world, are 69 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: there are other surf leagues that you compete with, No, 70 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: not professionally. That's what's unique about surfing. There are other 71 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: ngbs that you would see from a qualification an Olympic perspective, 72 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: it's a national governing body, so for example, that like 73 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: USA basketball would be the national governing body versus the 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: NBA in the United States, and those n gps are 75 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: the ones that sort of lean into the to the Olympics. 76 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: Are surfers when we contract them can't compete in a 77 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: competing professional league, and there's not another confessional league to 78 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: compete in to begin with. So from our perspective, it's 79 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: a really great moat we have around the organization so 80 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: that when the surfers come here, we give them the pathway, 81 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: they have the opportunity to compete at the highest levels 82 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: and get the exposure through all the different distribution modalities 83 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: we have. But then in their local countries they can 84 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: do some local events with through their m gps, for example, 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: the ones in Australia. Surfing Australia is what it's called 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: in the United States, it's it's a United States Surfing. Well, 87 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: one thing that helped you out you talk about the 88 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: exposure is that pros surfing made it to the Olympics. 89 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: It debuted at the Tokyo Olympics in twenty twenty and 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: that really brought it out for you guys. And I 91 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: think you guys are going also in Paris in twenty 92 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: twenty four, is that correct? Yeah, so in twenty in 93 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, which was one sadly because of the COVID 94 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: year we had, we definitely had surfing in and it 95 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: was a little bit of a tricky place. It was 96 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: a break called Chiba. And you know what's so unique 97 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: about our sport that people probably assume, but it's always 98 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: interesting to point out is unlike basketball or cricket or football, 99 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: that field of play doesn't move. That field of play 100 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: is the field of play. A basketball ram is ten 101 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,679 Speaker 1: foot Our field to play changes every nanosecond, tide swell, 102 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: and so we have this really interesting relationship that we 103 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: love with the ocean that we show up in the mornings, 104 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: our surfers have to be ready and then we can 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: go and there's no waves, go back to bed. So 106 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: every night our surfers go to bed waking up for 107 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: us to do what's called the call. So when we 108 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: were in Japan for the Olympics in Tokyo, excuse me, 109 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: we had actually had a typhoon cyclones swall came through it, 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: so we had some good waves and it turned out 111 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: to be great and both of our world champions one 112 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: that event. Could we do qualify Olympians into it with 113 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Intelo Forrera and Charissa Moore. So if you flashed forward 114 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: to twenty twenty four, something that's very very interesting that 115 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: in our sport is that in Paris, France, there's not 116 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: a great surf break for those of you who are 117 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: familiar with Paris, not a big surftown, didn't you want 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: to imagine, But there actually is in a place called Tahiti, 119 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: because Tahiti is actually French Polynesia. So there, so what's 120 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: going to happen is the Olympics are going to take place, 121 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: you know in Paris surfing is it going to take 122 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: place at one of our tour stops called Teohopo, some 123 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: people call it Chopu and it's one of the gnarliest 124 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: dangerous left hand barreling waves in the world. And that's 125 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: that's gonna take place in twenty four and I definitely 126 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: think that, you know, the imagery that's going to come 127 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: out of that is going to be all time and 128 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: I think it's really gonna take to your point, how 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,679 Speaker 1: it elevated through the Olympics. It's going to be another 130 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: shot in the arm because the visual status of what 131 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: comes out of that wave is if you just Google 132 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: googled Tahiti waves, you'll see you there. There's some of 133 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: the biggest waves ever. You know, you mentioned something about 134 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: the typhoons disrupting some of the competitions. You've been head 135 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: of the World Surf League for four years now, so 136 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen your fair share of extreme weather 137 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: events and the evolution of more frequent weather events extreme 138 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: weather events as well. Is climate change good or bad 139 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: for surfing? You know, I think it's just the fact 140 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: that we live with to be honest. You know, there's 141 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: obviously could be a debate whether or not Lannina or 142 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: Elnino does certain things to the water temperatures. We think 143 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: the climate change from an organizational perspective is something that 144 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: we're fighting. We have an organization called WSL One Ocean 145 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: where we focus on a lot of things, but predominantly 146 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: reef coral restoration because without the wreaths, the waves don't 147 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: actually perform. We do huge initiatives and every one of 148 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: our stops in terms of single path plastic cleanup, and 149 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: we focus on things like the acid levels, the acidic 150 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: levels that are in the ocean. So you know, climate 151 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: change is not good on any level from our view. 152 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: When you sort of take that down to the grove 153 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: view about the impacts and the storms. You know, what 154 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: we do see is certain periods of times we'll see 155 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: these runs. And what I mean by a run is 156 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: you'll just see weeks upon weeks upon weeks of energy 157 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: coming that is out of character. And then sometimes we'll 158 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: see weeks upon weeks upon weeks where we have no 159 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: energy at a certain point of time, which is out 160 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: of character. So we acknowledge that, you know, Mother Earth 161 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: is changing. We don't think that it's changing for the good. 162 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: We think that it is changing and we're trying to 163 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: fight it. However, when you get it down to the 164 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: competitive nature, you know, the way our sport works currently, 165 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: like right now we are actually, you know, for the 166 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: next several days are in a place called Bells Beach 167 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: and Poor k Australia, and so we have a two 168 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: week window and that two week window gives us a 169 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: shot to have the waves show up, and we need 170 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: about three three and a half days to run the competition. 171 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: So when you sort of think about it that way, 172 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: what we do is we move the tour and we 173 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: put them into locations that historically we would see energy 174 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: in the ocean, and for the most part, we do 175 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: a pretty good job of that. I guess the delicate 176 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: way I could put this is you've got a bunch 177 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: of competitors. They're looking for that wave, and then you 178 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: see that wave, and I could just see a bunch 179 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: of guys saying, get the hell off my wave. Yeah, 180 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: it works the same way is like, you know, how 181 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: do the surfers work that out? Men and women trying 182 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: to find over the wave. It's such a great question. 183 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: So in the field of play for us, there's actually 184 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: a very important piece of strategy called priority, and the 185 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: way it works is that the three of us are surfing, 186 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: and the start of the heat would have no priority, 187 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: So I would take the first wave, and then that 188 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: means the two of you would have a chance to 189 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: get a wave, and then let's just say you got 190 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: the wave, and then she would have priority. And then 191 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: what happens is is that there's an order that goes 192 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: to it. And then after I catch my wave, I 193 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: got to paddle back out to the outside, and we 194 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: have a judge that judges how soon somebody returns to 195 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: the lineup and keeps track of who had priority. So 196 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: what that basically means is that there's a heap of 197 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: strategy that happens. So if it's a two manned heat 198 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: like we normally run toward the final the day, and 199 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: I have priority and I have and you don't, I 200 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: get first choice of the better wave. If I don't 201 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: like it, then you can take it. But then you know, 202 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: the way the scoring works is pretty simple. The goal 203 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: is to get a ten on a wave, get you 204 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: get as many waves as you want in thirty minutes, 205 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: and a perfect heat is the best two waves of 206 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: all your waves, so a perfect heat would be twenty. 207 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: So there's actually a little bit of structure now. Back 208 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: in the day when the surfing didn't have priority, it 209 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: was a bit of a demolition derby after four men 210 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: and women out there. So, yeah, we were trying to 211 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: improve the quality of surfing. I think it's the right decision, right, 212 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: A lot of unsportsmanlike conduct back then, I'm sure. Yeah. 213 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about how TV content, streaming 214 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: content has helped bolster the profile of surfing. We know 215 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: that there's been a couple of Netflix documentaries on tennis, 216 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: on golf, on Formula one racing and Michael Barr's Smiling 217 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: Year to Year right now. That's really raised the profile 218 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: of those sports and brought in a lot of new viewers, 219 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: a new just a new fans, new followers who hadn't 220 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: really given much thought to the sport before. There's an 221 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: Apple TV docum series called Make or Break, which is 222 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: about WSL surfers as they compete on the Championship Tour, 223 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: and the season two will be or has debuted in February. 224 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about the impact what 225 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: you've seen as a result of this documseriies and what 226 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: it means for in particular sponsors. Yeah, and I think, 227 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, just taking a step further back, you know, 228 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: we threw the pandemic shot a reality based TV show 229 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: at our wave system in Lamore called Ultimate Surfer, which 230 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: was a derivative of a program that I executive produced 231 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: alongside with Dana White that used to be an Ultimate Fighter. 232 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: And when we started having conversations with Box the Box Productions, 233 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: we quickly recognize the opportunity given what Drive Survives has done, 234 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: and so Paul and I decided to produce this series 235 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: together and it's been really transformative for I think the 236 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: profile of our surfers in our sport, and you know, 237 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,599 Speaker 1: when we look at ways and things that come to 238 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: the forefront to sort of quantify it. You know, we 239 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: had just past this past attendance. We had a day 240 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: in Portugal where there was tens of thousands of people 241 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: on a beach on a day where we had pedestrian waves. 242 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: But it was the largest beach attendance we've seen in 243 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: Portugal and it wasn't like you know, a superstar waves 244 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: and you see that, you see the engagement on our 245 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: social media platforms. We see the consumption that's sort of happening, 246 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: and we even saw last year, you know, huge increases 247 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: in terms of viewership and even the number of sponsors 248 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: that sign on. I think, you know, whereas the F 249 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: one effect took two to three years before it really 250 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: sort of flowed through and everybody saw it. In our case, 251 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: because we're so global, we're not as concentrated, if you will, 252 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: like watching the ratings specifically on ESPN for F one, 253 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: we're very very global our big territories or Australia, Brazil, 254 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: United States and parts of Europe. But the headline is 255 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: that what I do see from our surfer's perspective is 256 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: their profiles being higher. We see more interest in the 257 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: sport because of it, and I I think that as 258 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: we continued to do work with box to box and 259 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: we continue to take other products to the marketplace. You 260 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: just have been in content a long time. You just 261 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: never know what is the one that sort of clicks. 262 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: You just keep coming to the plate, if you will, 263 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: and making quality shows. Can you imagine Dana White getting 264 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: him This is like, Okay, surfers, we're gonna put you 265 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: in a cage and we're going to throw an octopus 266 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: in there. Let's go I get Oh man, that's great, 267 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was funny. We had him to the 268 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: surf ranch when we were taping Ultimate Surfer and he 269 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: was full of all of that bravado gusto and all 270 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: he would do is take his shoes off, true story, 271 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: take his shoes off, roll up his jeans, go nowhere 272 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: near a surfboard. But he didn't need to. He didn't 273 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: need to, he didn't need to know. But no one 274 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: was going to argue with him, myself included. I am 275 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: going to ask the question that the four year old 276 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: is just going to bluntly ask, how do all these 277 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: surfers get paid? Yeah, well, look, I mean it's a 278 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: great question. Um, there's a lot of different ways that 279 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: in today's world surfers get paid. I think that the 280 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: most in the best way for people to have a 281 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: career surfing is to participate in this tiered system that 282 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: we talked about. And so that's the first thing, because 283 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, our surf we take equal prize money on 284 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the Championship Tour. Something people don't know. Our men and 285 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: women make the same numbers. And that's the first time 286 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: that any internet from different whatever's what you want to name. Yeah, 287 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: So so equality is like a really important thing for us. 288 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: So I think especially for young girls, you know, and boys. 289 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: There there's a career there. If you make it to 290 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: the Championship Tour, you can have it. You can have 291 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: a very successful career. Now, the other part about it 292 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: is that you know, as you're aspiring the power of 293 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: these social media platforms these kids have in terms of 294 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: whether it's TikTok or YouTube, and you go in there 295 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: and you'll look at what the kids will call edits 296 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: and you'll look at them and make their surf clips, 297 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: and it is chock full of ways for kids to 298 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: get sponsorships because what really happens and you guys probably remember, 299 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: no matter how young or old three of us think 300 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: we are, surfing, especially in the United States has been 301 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: and will continue to be one of the most aspirational 302 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: sports in the world. You know, I, you know, we 303 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: grew up in Oklahoma and you know, I wanted to 304 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: wear Ocean Pacific op short because the cool kids wore. 305 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: And that's not really any different today because when you 306 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: look at the great brands that are out there, they 307 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: link to this aspirational thing about surfing, and so if 308 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: you're a young surfer who's got some games, definitely compete, 309 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: definitely gets competitive chops up, but definitely find ways to 310 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: connect the lifestyle to yourself and your personality. And we're 311 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: seeing that happen with this insurgence. I mean, it is 312 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: literally an insurgence of youth that are coming into the 313 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: sport and it's very exciting. You were telling us earlier 314 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: that you did not actually get on a surfboard until 315 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: you're in your forties, Is that right? Yeah? Forty one? Actually, 316 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: how what's the age span for a professional surfer? Well, 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: let's take Kelly Slater, who's fifty two out of the equation, 318 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: because when we talk about putting a thumb on the scale, 319 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, and I think people just need to take 320 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: a minute and just like process that for a second. 321 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: You know, the average age, to take Kelly out of it, 322 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: the average age of a championship tour surfer is probably 323 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: sitting somewhere between twenty four to twenty six. Y. Kelly 324 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: Slater is fifty two. Kelly Slater one pipeline last year 325 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: and the guy he competed with was the son of 326 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: somebody he competed with twenty years ago, and he has 327 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: gone through three generations surfers, and I believe the stat 328 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: was I'll be general. I think I know for a 329 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: fact that there were a number of men Championship Tour 330 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: surfers who were not even born when Kelly won his 331 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: first world title. And he is still on tour today. 332 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: He's in Bill's Beach, and he's in the heat. He 333 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: is still on tour today. So he's a little bit 334 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: um an anomaly. He's anomaly. He's anomaly. But but if 335 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: you think about it to the sharp point of your question, 336 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: you when you look in that that mid twenties to 337 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: early thirties, that's kind of a sweet spot of what 338 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: we're seeing. Certainly we have some surfers on the other 339 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: side of it, but generally speaking, it's right there. Can 340 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: you imagine all the trash talking Kelly could do. I 341 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: whipped your daddy's but now I'm gonna do the same 342 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: thing to you. I can just see this now, and 343 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: you can just plant that in the head. And even 344 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: the young guys are like, dang man, I don't think 345 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: he just walks out there. Well, you know what, that's 346 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: so funny you say that that's exactly what he does. 347 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: He just he By the way, if you look at him, 348 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: he's got these piercing blue eye I mean they're just 349 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: like unbelievable. And you know, you're in the water and 350 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: he just looks at you and that's it. He doesn't 351 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: even have to say anything. And where he does a 352 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: look satch and people just completely fall apart, right right, 353 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: Oh man, all these handsome people. Eric logans Heef, executive 354 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: Officer of the World Surf League, thank you so much, 355 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: man for joining us on the Bloomberg business of sports. 356 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: That was a lot of fun. We really do appreciate it. Yeah, 357 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: you're welcome, and both of you are more than welcome 358 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: to join me anytime at our surf branch where I 359 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: can teach you how to surf and a controlled environment, 360 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: or we just jump out back here in Los Angeles. 361 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: You just too. Let me know. I feel like surfing 362 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: is the ultimate sport where you have to watch it 363 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: live in person because it's stunning when you see it live. 364 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: And TV captures it, but it doesn't quite capture it 365 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: the right way. Ah. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, yeah, 366 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: it does. I mean, I look, I mean, we have 367 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, we had our finals last year and we 368 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: had eight point three million people watch the finals. I 369 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: think I think you're right. There's something that's seeing it 370 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: in person everything. Yeah, yeah, it feels it. It's still 371 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: it's still very very it's very very hypnotic and transformative 372 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: to watch. But yeah, there's there's nothing nothing quite like 373 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: standing on the shore watching them do it in live. 374 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: For sure. This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 375 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: I'm Duke Kahanamoko and we're here every Monday, well end 376 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: today and Thursday with all your podcasts. You can follow 377 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: me this is the real thing now on Twitter at 378 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: Big Bar Sports. It's such a privilege to hang out 379 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: with Duke all day. Follow us on Twitter. I'm at 380 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: Scarlet Boo. You have been listening to the Bloomberg Business 381 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world.