WEBVTT - Featuring Cassadee Pope 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.480 Hey guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:07.840 the Let's Be Real Podcast. As always, I'm your host, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.640 Sammy Jay, and welcome. Thank you so much for taking 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.039 the time to listen. This week, I got to chat 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.480 with the incredibly talented Cassidy Pope. Now you may know 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.120 her from the band Hey Monday, or from winning Season 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.480 three of The Boys, which I actually voted for her, 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.600 so glad you won, um, and she actually came out 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.760 with an album called Thrive and it is quite incredible. UM. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:31.520 We have a really down to earth chat about what 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.080 it's like being a female artist, especially in country music, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.320 what it was like winning the Voice. She goes into 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.600 some stories that I haven't heard her talk about anywhere else, 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.599 mental health, the importance of therapy, and she shares a 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.160 lot about her personal dreaming, which I'm so grateful she did. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:55.720 I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Cassidy, I am 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.880 so excited that you are on my podcast. I'm excited 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.080 to Before we start, I have a quick story to 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.520 tell you. Okay, when you were on the Voice, I 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:13.520 was what I remember so clearly, it was my obsession 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.240 with a voice, and I remember I voted for you. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.640 I was when you first auditioned and you performed torn. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.280 I was like, oh my goodness, and I just remember 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.240 watching the show so vividly. So this is very full 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.559 circle for me that you're on my podcast now. Thank you. 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.040 Thanks for voting. I appreciate that. It's like, that's level. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.040 I mean, I think things worked out pretty well. It's 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.120 because of you, because of your vote. That vote, man, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.000 that that one vote, that one vote me and my 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.320 brother did when we called in sent me over. It's amazing. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.080 Thank you. It feels like a I mean, I was 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.520 a different person, Like it was just a whole other 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.920 life was insane. I mean, before the pandemic feels like 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.559 a different life. I agree, like nine lives. I feel 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.640 like it's kind of like a cat it is. It is. Yeah, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:04.720 last year was like I don't I think it was 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.800 just a blur. You know, we got through it, but 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.520 it was a blur, right. I That's the thing. I'm 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.760 like randomly remembering these weird little memories. I'm like, oh wait, 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.519 that wasn't that long ago, but it feels like ten 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.960 years ago. Yeah, it's And this year I feel like 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.440 has flown by because things have opened back up and 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.760 It's like, my endurance isn't what it used to be. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.520 So if I have like one thing to do on 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.840 it on a day, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.079 get on the couch and rest after that one thing 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.480 I had to do today. Oh yeah, I'm I'm a 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.280 freshman in college and I'm living on campus, and my 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.960 social battery I'm already like an introvert. But when you 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.920 add a pandemic onto that, my oh my, yeah, my 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.800 social battery is like negative zero right all the time. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.600 It's weird socializing with people in person. Yeah, I actually 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:59.560 found that I think I might prefer the internet, UM 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.840 that thing with people like I think it's I think 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.640 when we embrace it, it can be really amazing. Like 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.360 last year getting to UM, I did a bunch of 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.960 meet and greets, FaceTime meet and greets with my fans, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.480 and I was able to have UM writing sessions with 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.760 people in l A and New York and not have 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.520 to travel, And I actually felt like my world in 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.440 a weird way opened up more because I embraced the 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.480 WiFi and the interwebs like what it could offer us. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.440 So you know, it's sometimes you just have to lean 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.720 into it. Oh absolutely, And I think it's also it's 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.160 really weird because I'll be watching a movie and I'll 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.240 be like, there are so many people together, they should 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.400 be wearing masks. Why aren't they social distancing And the 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.840 fact that my brain is wired that way now, I'm like, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.080 it's bizarre. Oh my goodness, very bizarre. What is this. 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.560 There's something about being in person and having that connection. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.320 It's it's so different like traveling doing something. It's it 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:55.880 was a whole to do and I kind of missed that. 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.560 I mean, I think like in doses, both things are great, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.400 like being able to be remote when it's convenient and 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.720 being able to travel when you want to. It's like, 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.560 that's that's ideal. But when you're forced into one thing, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.440 it's that that it's not very fun. Oh absolutely. I 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.720 have a morning class at eight thirty and there's a 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.680 zoom option, and it has been so fantastic embracing that 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.680 zoom option because I don't I who wants to walk 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.720 across campus at like it in the morning. Not me. Yeah. 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.280 Now you can stay in your pjs and sip that coffee. Yeah, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.920 stay in bed, that's the way to do it. So 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.159 much art has come out of this pandemic, and it's 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.680 like for everybody, it's given us time to really reflect 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.240 and just think about what we've done, where we want 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.799 to go. And something that I've been struggling with and 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.880 learning to cope with is not having your identity be 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.680 around my career, around one thing, but having an identity 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.880 outside of that. When the pandemic first hit, before we 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:03.040 knew how long it be, zoom writing sessions started. What 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.040 was that period like for you as an artist not 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.479 being able to perform live and kind of being still 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.200 with yourself. It was definitely a struggle. I mean I 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.080 I do the same where I put a lot of 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.240 my self worth and how busy I am? What what's 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.200 going on for me? Are people paying attention? Is it 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.880 a busy time or is it just like one off season? 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.800 You know? And um, I think at first it was 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:29.840 a jolt and it was like, oh my god, like 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.720 what's going to happen? And I don't know what to 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.080 do with myself? Um. And then because it was a 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.839 worldwide situation and I was not the only artist who 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.080 was having some quiet season, um, it kind of brought 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.320 me comfort in a way that like, Okay, we're all 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.120 in this together in very different levels. But um, we 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:55.160 are all like losing our tours and not able to travel, 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.880 not able to see our fans in person. So it 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.760 was weird. And then I sort of, um, like I 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.520 said before, kind of embraced the situation and was like, Okay, 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.839 if I can't go anywhere and I can't tour and 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.800 do what I love, I'm gonna do the second best 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.480 thing and write on Zoom. And that's and I wrote 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:17.320 the whole album on zoom um and wrote with people 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.320 for the first time that I ended up just loving 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.560 writing with actually found my producer through one of the 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.240 writing sessions on zoom, So it ended up, you know, 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.000 becoming a very positive experience. But it was very bitter 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.880 sweet because I wasn't getting, you know, the aspect that 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.560 I love the most in my career, which is playing live. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.960 That's what's so awesome. You wrote an entire album from 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.200 your home, and I think we're at this place where, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.000 like you said, it's all about perspective and we can 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.760 choose to look on the negative side of things or 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.520 really turn something into a positive or make the best 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.279 out of any situation. And yeah, I think something that's 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.040 really special about this album Thrive is that you're not 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.279 limiting yourself. You know, there are for a while, there's 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.320 you did country, you did rock, you did punk, but 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.800 you're really just merging all three creating your own lane, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.479 which is very hard to do as an artist, especially 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.360 being a female artist. You're in in the country music industry, 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.600 which is also a very male dominated industry, and I 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.960 think paving your own lane is so special. What was 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.840 that process like? Yeah, definitely, I mean I was going 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:24.720 I was about to go in the studio in April 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.360 um and and cut some songs that I loved that 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.200 felt very country radio friendly, felt like a very safe 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.280 UM route for me to take. And then once the 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.680 pandemic hit and it sort of forced me to think 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.840 about things a little bit deeper and and honestly, like 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.880 talking to my management team about it, um I had 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.160 just done a Hey Monday reunion show at the end 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.840 of twenty nineteen, and they were like, we've never seen 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.400 that side of you, so we're fans, uh. And then 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:57.760 so once we started having those conversations, they were like, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.280 you know you you can do is authentically like you 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.800 come from that pop punk world and you grew up 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.280 singing country music. So they're both authentic to you. What 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.080 if you just leaned in more into the pop punk 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.160 thing and see where it takes you? UM, And it 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.920 was really an intentional thing going into each session. UM. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.160 You know, the songwriters that I was writing with, we're 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.760 all briefed by my publisher on the direction I'm going 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.880 forward and UM the vision I had and so, and 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.040 just going in with songwriters that helped sort of aid 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.760 me in that direction to UM was really great. But 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.520 but just going into every session with you know these 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:41.959 probably I guess nine years of UM songwriting experience in Nashville, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.880 but merging you know, my pop punk roots and it 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.120 was just a really natural process. I didn't feel like 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.440 I was compromising anything. I didn't feel like I was 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.680 chasing anything. I had a goal in mind, but it 0:08:54.760 --> 0:09:00.280 felt like a goal that I I could achieve very easy, elite, 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.400 you know. So I UM had a lot of fun 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.160 making this record. And I went in the studio with 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.679 the band and I was you know, my I was 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.520 just right up there at the control board like constantly, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.000 you know, co producing with with Nick Wheeler, my producer, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.440 and Karen Fairchild, my co producer, and it just felt 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.240 like a very from start to finish, a very hands on, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.280 precious kind of process. I want to read you something 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.079 because I rewatched your audition for the Boys and Christina 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.640 Aguilaric said something that kind of foreshadowed what's happening now. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.120 She said, you have a little country in there that 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.839 you could do something with. You have something that's popped driven, 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.920 something that's a little rock, and you can kind of 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:45.160 do it all. Wow. I don't remember saying that. Jeez, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.240 that's cool. That's what you're doing now, you know what. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.760 And I that's that's actually crazy hearing that from her, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.800 because she's like the same she can. I feel like 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.600 she could do it all too, So that's that's pretty cool. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.080 And and like the fans that I've all kind of 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.240 coined the genre, um calling it the alternative, which is 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.959 really fun. So I'm kind of taking it and running 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:14.600 with it and makeing merch and stuff. Absolutely you should, yeah, absolutely, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.280 And I think that's one of the things, like doing 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.760 something that's not what everyone else is doing can be 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:24.920 really difficult, especially being an artist, being a young female artist, 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.920 there are so many pressures of what you should be 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.319 or what you should look like. Um, was there a 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.600 certain moment besides the Hey Monday reunion, where you're like, man, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.680 I really miss this side to me that I haven't 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:41.120 been fully letting UM show through my music. Oh that's 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.440 a good question. Um. I think when I'm on stage 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.560 and I am playing either Hey Monday song or just 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.440 like one of my UM newer songs that leans a 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.320 little bit more rock, or covering a rock song or something, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.600 I do have that like I get that itch, or 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.720 I used to, and now that I have this album, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:04.800 I'm not really feeling that way anymore, but I would 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.440 get that itch like gosh, like how fun would it 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.440 be to just kind of go back to that and 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.920 and like go crazy on stage and not worry about 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.920 being to this or to that, not being country enough, 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.640 or even in the rock realm. You know, I never 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.280 felt weird enough or tortured enough or anything like you know, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.000 all of our favorite rock stars were always these, uh, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.360 tortured soulds, you don't fit the mold of what they say. Yeah, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.320 And I I never felt that way in any any 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.760 platform I've been in UM, which is really led me 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.040 to this point of like, oh, I think I just 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.200 I'm a bunch of things and I don't know where 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:45.840 that's gonna land me. I don't know if that's going 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.520 to bring me all the awards in the world or 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.079 it's gonna get me a Grammy, But I I know 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.560 that it's me, and I know if people like it, 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.840 then they like me for who I am. So that's 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.800 kind of that was why I was like, Okay, I 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:03.120 think I'm down to just kind of see where this goes. Yeah, 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.400 I mean, you were just being Cassidy, and that's all 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.000 we can all do at the end of the day 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.080 is just be ourselves because there's only one of you 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.640 and there's a reason for that. And I think something 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.960 that's really interesting with your writing. It's just very authentic 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.240 and it's use a storytelling, which I feel like in 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.160 a lot of songs nowadays, it's very it's meaningless, you know, 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.160 they're just words together that sound nice with the pop 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.600 feed and no shape to anyone that does that sometimes 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.680 like that that's a great vibe to be in, you 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.520 know what I mean. Yeah, it's super catchy. Yeah, but 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.200 it's having those lyrics and being able to tell a 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:44.960 story with your music can relate to more people. What 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.520 do you love about storytelling? Because that's what music is. Essentially, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:54.160 I'm always really surprised at the songs that I feel 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.880 are really specifically personal to me, how they connect with 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.800 so many people. Um, I've put out songs that I'm like, 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:08.280 this is a very very specific situation that maybe not 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.600 many other people have been through, and then I put 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.640 it out and it's like, oh, well, like obviously I'm 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.400 not alone here, and it's like a very you know, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:22.120 therapeutic process. Because while I really appreciate fans who say 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.400 this has helped me through this or that, they're also 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.920 helping me to not feel so crazy and alone in 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.840 my feelings. So, um, that's always been surprising to me. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.440 With like storytelling is is as a songwriter, we're kind 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:40.000 of taught to make it appeal to everybody. Don't make 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:45.319 it super gender specific or like a cultural culturally specific song, 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.920 or you know, the people and a small town aren't 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.120 going to relate to this like city song or whatever 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.760 the reasons are. We're always told as songwriters to try 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.440 and make things connect with everyone, and that's why we 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.720 get the super water down lyrics and the really catchy songs, 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.080 but they don't really say much because that is it, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.360 and it works that is that is something that works. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.920 But it also works when people get specific like Taylor 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.840 Swift and Adele and Harry Styles and you know, I 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:18.959 think that that that's uh, if it's done right, that 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.240 that blows up just as big as the very um 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.560 safe songs. Absolutely, And I think something that I love 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.840 your title Thrive because I feel like we've been surviving, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.200 but we should all we should all aim to thrive. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.280 What was the process? What is your writing process generally? 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.760 Do you have a concept of mind? Do you start 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.560 with the lyrics, the melodies, the title. It's different every time. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.880 I mean the biggest difference writing this album, of course, 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.120 was it was on Zoom. But um, it didn't really 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.720 change as far as the process of Like for Thrive, 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.280 for instance, I brought in UM the first verse, and 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.240 I brought in the what I wanted the hook to be, like, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.320 I didn't just survive without you know, I thrive and 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.280 we went from there. Um And some sessions are like 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.640 I have a whole chorus, Uh, some sessions I have 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.600 just a melody. There were a few that I just 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.920 brought a concept in. I didn't have any lyrics or 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.240 any melodies to it. I just had the concept so 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.440 it just depends. And the thing that I think is 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.680 really great about when you have a publisher who really 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.640 knows your strengths and your weaknesses is they will put 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.440 you in a room with people who catered to where 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.359 your weaknesses are. And that's something that I really appreciated 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.560 through this process because I I did want to really 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.760 focus on storytelling and being honest and and kind of 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.600 staying the course and not getting too distracted about other things, 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.520 UM like who it would appeal to. And once that 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.200 sort of like solidified itself and that was the process, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.320 it really just was like just flowing and every session, UM, 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.440 something I'll amazing would come out, and but I always 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.120 I always brought in something UM, so that I think 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.360 that was a good like launching pad for all the sessions. 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.480 What would you say the biggest thing you've learned about 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:16.440 yourself writing this album has been I've learned that I 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:21.480 I carried a lot of shame about a lot of things, UM, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:27.960 from like breaking someone's heart to UM feeling spiteful to 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:34.680 um you know, something happening when I was younger that 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.240 I look back on and as an adult and I'm like, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.520 I actually didn't know better because I was really young, um, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.600 whereas before I had a lot of shame about these things. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.520 And so the writing process was was again therapeutic because 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.520 I kind of let myself, I let myself kind of 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.800 feel like like a victim a little bit. And I've 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.840 never really been into that, Like I've always taken a 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.640 acountability for my decisions and um never wanted, never wanted 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.200 to people to feel bad for me. So I tried 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.159 to sound stronger in my songs, and this time around, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.720 I just leaned into the real feelings of shame and disappointment, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.800 embarrassment and hurt and feeling like a victim and all 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.439 those things. So like, yeah, I just I guess the 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.040 thing I learned about myself was that I was almost 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.560 um trying to protect myself for a very long time, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.879 but in reality, I was just UM keeping everybody at 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.120 arm's length. I think that's so interesting that you say that, 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.440 because we go through things through life and we have 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.879 shame towards and a lot of things we shouldn't because, 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.960 like you said, we're all on a journey and we're 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.199 all growing and it's part of the experience. And I 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.560 think being able to turn something that you were shameful of, 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.080 but vocalize it really takes that shame away from it. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.879 Would you say you felt that way through writing? Yeah, 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.320 I think talking about it definitely does. I mean, anytime 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.160 you're talking about a trauma or something that that hurt 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.479 you in the past, every time you talk about it, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:10.159 you're releasing it more and more each conversation. So I 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:15.600 definitely feel like this album is is heavily rooted in 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.600 my journey with mental health to like just being very 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.960 vocal about things that are really uncomfortable to talk about, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.640 that people stigmatize and make us feel weird when we 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.480 express things, and and just kind of like throwing that 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.320 all away and just um, you know, I hope I 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.160 made people uncomfortable with some of these songs. I hope 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.800 it made people think be comfortable with the uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.560 And that's like that's what my favorite artists do for me, 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.040 is like they make me uncomfortable in a good way. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.600 So we're growing. If we're uncomfortable, I think we have 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.840 to take one quick break, but when we come back, 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.359 I want to talk more about the topic of mental health. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.159 The best advice you've received in therapy pushing ourselves to 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.439 be more uncome triable and to grow your experience on 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.920 the voice and so much more. We'll be right back, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:15.320 and we're back. Julian michaels a song called Anxiety, and 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.160 it was the first time I ever listened to where 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.840 I was like, I feel attacked. This is too accurate 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.720 to my entire life, Like she put words to a 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.679 feeling I couldn't even describe, which was truly that's what's 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.560 the power of music, I feel like, and um for 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.440 people who have listened before, I've been so honest. I've 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.200 struggled with anxiety and o c D my entire life 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.359 and I used to be so scared, but no, it's 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.439 working on yourself and being a better person. By having 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.560 these open conversations. We're not giving it the power, right, Yeah. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.320 And I feel like people do see therapy as this 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.960 last resort. You gotta hit rock bottom before you go. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.280 We have to wait for a crisis, and it's like, man, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.160 I did that and it was awful, and so I 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.680 wish I had done some work because I had plenty 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.600 of things that I knew would mess me up, like 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.280 my parents divorce and my dad leaving us, and you know, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.320 being in the industry since I was like twelve. Um, 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.480 a lot of weird people in and out of my life, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.960 taking advantage and stuff, and just being a young kid 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.360 around a bunch of older people in the industry. And 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.120 I if I had just seeked some help and started 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.480 sort of confronting some of the things I was feeling 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.200 at an early age, I mean, I wouldn't be here 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.560 right now, so I would be I'm not going to 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.360 say like I want things. I wished things turned out differently, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.480 but it would have been it would have been really 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.280 helpful to have some tools being eighteen on the road 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:52.080 just mayhem, like be like a tornado traveling eighteen year 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.440 old tornado girl traveling the world, Like, yeah, that would 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.120 have been useful. And it's a lot putting yourself out 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.440 there and your song in in the spotlight and touring 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.760 when you're eighteen and meeting all these people, what would 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.880 you say the best tool you've learned is in your 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.560 journey in therapy? Because I have quite some tools in 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.280 my toolblocks. I'm just curious. I always love asking people 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.359 what they've learned. Yeah, totally. I mean, there's there's so 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.399 many things I learned. Um, I A big thing was 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:26.360 not taking everything personally, UM, because I was always so 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.880 concerned with what people thought about me. If they canceled, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.080 I feel you right, Like, if they canceled on me 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.639 last minute to hang, I'd be like, oh, it's because 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.680 I said this one time and they're mad at me 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:42.800 and and like and then I sort of once I 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:49.119 started therapy, I realized how like borderline narcissistic that is 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:54.040 of like, you know, obviously it's it's insecurities too, but 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.760 why would my first thought be that them canceling on 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.240 me is about me. It's it's usually not, and it's 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.360 usually because something came up or maybe they just don't 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.240 feel like it's not about me. It's that it's something 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.800 they're going through. And so that was really helpful because, Um, 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.560 once you feel that, and once you really like accept 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.560 that don't take things personally, you aren't as affected by 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.040 other people's decisions. And that's power. That's like where you 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:27.240 take it back, um, which is which is really nice. 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.960 And then I think to just, um, seeing how things 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.080 from my childhood affected me as an adult, that stuff, 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.440 even though it can't it can't change anything that's happened, 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:40.800 it still is like seeing it through the lens of 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:44.720 you know, the reason you dated these people or the 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.159