WEBVTT - Rebecca (Part 1) 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.720 Halfy October Popcorn Book Club listeners. We've covered horror and 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.640 monsters and cults of scary white people a few weeks 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.040 ago with our discussion of love Craft Country, and now 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.400 we're covering the other side of the spooky season with 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:23.040 the gothic thriller Rebecca by Daphne Demurier Moyer. Oh God, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.279 my French. Soon to be a film on Netflix. Not 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.600 goth in the sense of dressing and all black and 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.760 listening to Bauhaus, but gothic like gothic romance and death, 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.160 you know. Fun. She does not care at all that 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.120 her husband committed cold murder. She's like, but he hated her. 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.000 He killed her because he hated her. Who I was. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.200 I was hooked in that moment because I'm like, Oh, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.680 she's going to take us on a ride, because she's 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.879 going to try to explain away or try to reason 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.680 all these very very real red flags. Welcome back to 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.560 Popcorn Book Club. I am Danis Schwartz, joined as always 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.120 by Karamadanqua, Jennifer Wright and Melissa Hunter and Tian tram 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.520 Hi everyone. I am so so excited that we're talking 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.320 about the book Rebecca. I had never read it and 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.600 I feel like once maybe in my childhood, I had 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.759 started the prologue and I got like two pages in 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.480 and I was like, man and put it down. And 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.840 once you sort of get over the hump of like 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:26.080 the first like pages, this book really takes off. Tim. 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.720 What was your experience. I I absolutely loved it, kind 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.200 of the same though I was like at first, I 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:34.640 was thinking to myself, I can't wait for this book 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.720 to pick up. Everyone's been talking about it. And then 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.000 when it picks up, Oh baby, it picks up, and 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.920 I thoroughly enjoyed it. All the characters are really fleshed 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.440 out and funny, funny, and the narrator is I don't 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.560 know about you all, but it's hilarious to me, so 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.480 so funny to me. Um. So I'm like super excited 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.559 to watch all the adaptations too, because I like, really 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.000 hope that they stay true to some of the quirks 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.160 and are like personality traits of everyone. Because I really 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.800 really loved it. Uh, Jennifer, you had read this book 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.919 before and you were you were vouching for it for us. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.640 What is your experience with Rebecca? It was really interesting 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.280 because I read this when I was a teenager, and 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.560 it was around the same time I was reading books 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.640 like Janier and was wearing plights, and this really fits 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:30.000 into that Gothic romance category. And I feel like I 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.800 had a very different experience with it now as an 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.639 adult then um, when I felt when I was a teenager, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.880 I definitely had a lot more simply for Rebecca. Now 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.000 as an adult, I still think the second Mrs de Winter, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.680 who has no name, is incredibly funny and likable. Um, 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.079 I think I had a different perspective on her loyalty 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.079 to Maxim than I do when I was a sixteen 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.519 year old girl. So we can get into that as 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:08.320 discuss it, I will say she is a ride or die. Yeah, Karama, 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.440 you as you made before we start recording, you mentioned 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.040 that you did not finish this book. Not you care 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.400 to elaborate. Well, first of all, I would just like 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.959 to start by saying I know that I'm going to 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.840 start getting a reputation as the person that doesn't finish 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:29.799 the book, but I actually so. I was very worry 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.280 about reading it. I was like, this feels boring. I 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.680 don't want to read this, and then everybody was like 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.240 it picks up in and I was like Okay, I 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.200 will read it. And I got more than that far 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.160 and I just felt like it never picked up for me, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.480 and like, I got almost two hundred pages in before 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.400 I was like, how much time am I going to 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.640 invest in something that is genuinely difficult for me to enjoy? 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.240 And I kind of wanted to have a discussion at 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.280 least at some point during this conversation about when it's 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.720 okay to sort of abandon a book, because I was like, Oh, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.240 I really really put in the effort, and I've gotten 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:12.880 to the point where people are like, this is where 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.520 it really starts. And I do think that there are 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.320 good things about it. I don't think that it is 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.200 an irredeemable book, and I just I also have my 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.159 own biases. I don't like romantic Gothic literature. I don't 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.560 I didn't like Wuthering Heights, I never read gene Air. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.279 I was just like, no, this style is not for me. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.560 And so I found that revulsion and like sort of 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.839 pushing against it again. Reading this book, I was like, 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.160 oh God, I really don't enjoy anything about this. But 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.440 I'm really excited to watch it as a film because 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.479 I think that the core plot elements really will lend 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:48.120 themselves to an exciting, thrilling viewing experience. I will say 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:49.840 I want to go on record as saying I think 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.720 if you're not enjoying a book, you can always abandon it. 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.640 They're like, if you give a book a fair chance, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.680 life is too short. There's no there's so many good 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.600 books in the world. It's I feel like it's kind 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.680 of like watching the first three episodes of a TV 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.200 show and if it doesn't really like everyone has a 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.000 limit of like how far you commit to a TV show? 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.080 Why not for a book to you know? So, Melissa, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.800 what was your response to Rebecca? Oh? God, I loved it. 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.680 I mean I had I did have the same experience 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.799 in the beginning where I felt it was very slow. 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.120 I was reading like I couldn't read it at night 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.760 because I kept on falling asleep within a page. Um 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.960 And it reminded me of high school where I was like, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.919 I have to read this book. But then. But but 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.240 I do think on the flip side of have being 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.600 so happy we are doing this podcast is like normal 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.039 Melissa would just have given up at that point. But 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.880 because we are doing this podcast, and I my main 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:56.000 motivation is not being publicly shamed. Um, I I'm a 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.279 very I'm very good student in that way, like I 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.400 love deadlines to other people. I pushed through and I 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.400 think it was around like like right after she went 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.000 to Manderley when I was just like when Mrs Danvers 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.839 came in and everything that I was just like, oh, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.160 there's something going on and I don't quite know what 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.480 it is. And then just like the building tension was 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.000 so much for me, and I just loved the hero 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.119 so much and was so like in on this ride 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:38.400 with her that I loved it. And so no, no, no, no, no, okay, yeah, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.960 sorry the narrator, No, that would have been interesting. No 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.719 judgment has been fun. We just would have talked about it. Jen. 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.479 The listeners can't see your face, but I can't. There 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.200 was judgment there. Yeah. I love him every you know. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:07:00.159 He just reminds me of my fiance. I want. I 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.119 want a boy who will bring me to his house 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:11.000 and then never talk to me like a dog. Yeah, baby, 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.440 like three things on a platter, foods. I'm just like, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.360 I had a lot of problem with the food waste. Yeah, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.360 so much food. She never and she was too insecured 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:28.040 at I also very much related she there's so much 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:35.360 going around. Yeah, I feel like I think, Danny, you're 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.080 saying too. Like I just related so hard to her, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.440 like I was hurt eighteen of like just having these 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:48.280 imagined conversations of what people are saying, with the horrible 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.280 things people are saying about me and like these I 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.280 just called it, like Rebecca the room Nation cycle because 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.120 it just felt like she was just this constant, circular, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:03.520 like reaffirming of these beliefs that she was so distracted 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.520 by that she didn't notice that her she finally realized, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.360 like her sticking point is he never loved her. Oh 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.640 my god, he never loved her. Yeah, it's like the best, 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.320 the best news ever that he killed her. It's that's 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.640 the writer is so funny. She does not care at 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:31.400 all that her husband committed She's like, but he hated her. 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.800 He killed her because he hated her. It was very 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.960 obvious to me that he killed her, Like I clocked 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.719 that very early on, and I'm like, wait, okay, so 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.120 you don't realize that this dude straight marked his ex wife, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:52.960 Like you don't know that lady, Like I before they left, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.679 what was the kipping point for you? Because I absolutely 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.679 did not know that. I remember that time I read it. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.679 It came as a real shocked No I knew, and 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.800 I never read this book. I didn't know anything about 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.800 the movie. I didn't know it existed until Jenn suggested 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:10.640 we read it. So I was reading it and I 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.480 was I remember I was like, on page seventy five 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.599 or something, I was like, Oh, this motherfucker killed his wife. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.440 I don't remember the exact moment. I think it was, um. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.240 I think it was when Beatrice first came about. I 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.400 feel like she kind of knew. She didn't know for sure, 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.880 but she was like, oh, well, I hope you guys 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.000 are happy, and I was like, oh, okay, with everything 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.880 else that's been leading up to this, and the way 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.920 that it was talking about Robecca and the way he's like, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.240 I wish you wish you could bottle your memories and 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.160 I wish that I never had to think of them again. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.920 And I'm like, oh, she murdered her. Yeah, and he 0:09:52.280 --> 0:10:00.079 tutor twice every year, he uncontrollably exactly, So I he 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.520 was about the Beatrice visit where I was like, oh, okay, 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:04.960 he killed her. And I think for me also realizing 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.640 that early on it didn't make the book interesting to 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.640 read because I'm think it's taking so long to get 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.880 to the murder. I will say what I found very 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.160 relatable is that as someone who uh does not know 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.240 how to ask for things or or advocate for myself, 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.439 it was very relatable. As we were mentioning with like 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.200 the food waste the second Mrs de Winter clocks like 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.520 there is a ton of food waste in this house, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.280 and it takes the full arc of the book for 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.800 her to be able to be like, fucking reuse the 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.559 same food, you assholes. But me, I'm like, I do 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.560 not ask for anything, like I have like a manager, 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:41.319 and I'm always like, can I ask her to I 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:42.800 don't want to send this thing to her. I don't 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.400 want to bother her. And my friends had to be like, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.920 she works for you. I loved when she hid the 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.800 cupid that she broke in the and and she had 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.240 to like be like I did it, and I was afraid, 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.800 Like that just felt so like just being a person 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.480 who doesn't feel like they belong in the place that 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:06.600 they literally are calling home, it feels so And I'm like, Grama, 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.800 I definitely thought from the beginning that he killed his wife, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.800 like when they first like the Mysterious Widow. And also 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.920 it's a Hitchcock movie, so it's like, okay, there's murder involved. However, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.280 I felt like the way it was written, you just 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.960 get so sucked into her point of view that like 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.640 end this vision of Rebecca and the jealousy of Rebecca 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:33.600 and everyone loving Rebecca. That like, to me, it like 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.480 pulled me into a different narrative of hers that by 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.040 the time he actually said it, it wasn't shocking to 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.400 me that he killed her. It was shocking to me 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.120 that he did not love her, because that felt like 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.200 to me, what I thought was, oh, there was like 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.120 they loved each other, but they had these big fights, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:59.920 you know, accident And the first twist, Yeah, the first 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.040 twist to me was how when Mrs dan Verse describes 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.480 how Rebecca loved no one and I was like, whoa, okay, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.199 so she's like an interesting cold bitch, Like that's fun 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.720 and and that was a throw to me. And then 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.480 and then that yeah, that it was like how could 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.400 he do this to to Mr de Winter Like, yes, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.920 maybe he killed her, but he also like loved her 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.600 and regretted it. I'm not saying that makes him a 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.079 good person, but that that's the narrative that I had. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.360 And I think that I also kind of clocked early 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.240 that he probably murdered her. It was and I think 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.360 it was when they were on that drive and he 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.680 like stopped on that like cliff and was fucking weird, 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.800 and I was like, oh he he did something like 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:55.120 just knowing, yeah, yes, something was wrong, something's wrong? Did 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.800 he push a bit off the cliff? Like what's going 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.880 on here? Only because we've all talked about it in like, 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.960 you know, I've I've seen the trailer for the Netflix adaptation, 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.080 and like we know that it's a thriller. We know 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.280 that like something mysterious, like spooky, and there's some sort 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.000 of like we know this woman is dead. So at 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.680 that time, when she's in the car to the cliff 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.280 and she even like I love the way she talks 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.840 about it, she's like so forgiving when he's acting like 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.800 a fucking weirdo. That like I was, I was hooked 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:27.599 in that moment because I'm like, Oh, she's going to 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.320 take us on a ride, because she's going to try 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.000 to explain away or try to reason all these sort 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.240 of like very very real red flags that any of 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.560 us would hope I would hope that like we would 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.480 be like, oh, that's not a good sign. I will 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.240 also say she was very blind, like I think I 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.560 was with you, Melissa, where I fully would have believed like, 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.000 oh it was if something was weird with the accident, 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.480 but like, oh it was a tragic accident of a 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.880 flight of passion gone gone wrong, of like whatever. But 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.680 I think like the book also establishes really well his 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.679 position and um wealth and age and status, and like 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.680 she has nothing, Like her choices are literally marry him 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.439 or travel as a basically a servant with this insufferable 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.400 American woman. So it's like he is like the prince 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.080 charming narrative, like that was her only choice. She began 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.640 the book being trained to be a companion. I would 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.040 not she ends the book as a companion to an 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:32.520 older man who is not took down that. The plot 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.160 of this is what if there are the pitches? What 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.640 if there is a sequel to Cinderella where the marriage 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:43.720 absolutely sucked, because because it does feel like the whisked 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.320 away happily ever after, like she was in poverty and 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.240 this rich, handsome man comes and takes her to this 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.440 date and then it turns out she feels awful all 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:58.320 the time, and then the husband is a murderer. I thought, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.680 enough of that murder daddy. Let's take a quick break. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.520 So we're back with Popcorn Book Club for My Heart Radio. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.000 I find it so interesting that you all really related 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.400 to the narrator, because I did not at all. And 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.720 I found her deeply annoying a lot of the time, 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.920 And I sorry, Dana, I was like, how are we friends? 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.480 Sometimes I also find you deeply annoying, but I love 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:39.120 you anyway. I keep reading the book that is you. Um, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.000 You're welcome, But for me, it was like, why aren't 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.600 you saying things? Why aren't you asking for things? Be 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.640 more assertive? What's your fucking problem? I understand that it 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.880 is the early twentieth century, However, you have way more 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.680 agency than you are allowing yourself. I mean, even at 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.960 the beginning. And I'm also that person at a restaurant 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.760 that will one hundred percent send something act and I'm 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.320 not going to be a bit about it, but if 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.640 it's not what I ordered, I'm going to tell somebody, Hey, 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.440 I'm so sorry. I don't eat nuts. I'm not allergic. 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.200 I just don't eat them, but I don't eat nuts. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.040 I specifically asked for this not to have nuts. Could 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:12.760 you bring you back a version that doesn't have nuts? 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.280 Thank you so much? Like you are uncommonly self assured. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.880 I don't feel that though I don't insecure a lot 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.000 of the time. But I find that like when she 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.680 got that cold ham in the beginning and she's just like, oh, well, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.120 I guess it's just a reflection of how the staff 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.120 here sees me is lower and lesser, and I'm like, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.920 bitch asked for warm ham. I don't understand what you're doing. Karama. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.800 I have to say, as someone who has known you years, 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.320 you are an incredibly self assured person. I remember the 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.280 first time I met you, and like freshman it might 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.160 have been freshman week or whatever my parents were at college, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.440 and you like extended your hand and you're like, hi, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.360 I'm Karama Aqua, so nice to meet you, Mr and 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.400 Mrs Schwartz, and like the most self assured way that. 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.520 I was absolutely floored. I was like, oh my god, 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:10.480 she's so confident. Though you should be common we I didn't. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:15.200 I didn't necessarily relate to her, but I just I 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.960 loved her. Growth like she had if we if she 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.639 started out being assertive, she wouldn't have ended up with 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:27.480 Daddy Maxim Like like we needed her to be kind 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.560 of like diminutive and like kind of like a you know, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.439 in this sub dumb relationship that is being established, we 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.760 needed her to be kind of like questioning everything so 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.960 that at the end she can finally be like, I 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.880 want a new menu. Like for her, that is such 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.760 a huge moment of asserting herself, which I thought it 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.959 was hilarious, Like I just I thought she was funny, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.960 Like there's something very funny and charming about her little 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:01.639 victories being so small, but for her being key Yeah, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.840 and I mean yeah, I did relate to her. I'm 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.520 not I don't think I'm like her now by any means. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.720 But I when I was eighteen, I sure and going 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.400 to college, I sure didn't know how to talk to anybody, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.400 and I like sometimes would think I would, but then 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.120 I would sit and stew about all the stupid things 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.639 I said in my first acting class all night. You know, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.879 I think this was it's really in. It feels like 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.200 a really perfect portrait of someone who was deeply insecure 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.880 and hasn't come into herself. Um, and someone who suffers 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.920 from anxiety. Uh, like just not knowing what to wear 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.560 to the fancy dress ball and like, girl, I've been 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.800 there so many times. It's like, how far do I 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.280 commit to this Halloween party? Do I really go all in? 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.639 Of course Max doesn't dress up, that's so typical of 0:18:54.720 --> 0:19:01.280 for him, but she perfect Yeah, my god, an impeccable tuxedo. 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:07.760 You navigate this mine field alone? Um yeah. Anyway, I 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.000 just feel like, to me, I thought she was very 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.080 funny and I wanted her to speak up and that's 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.360 why I did feel so satisfying in the end. Um My. Also, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.359 big note was I really want a flower room? Yes? 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.520 I think we can all agree upon that everyone deserves 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.639 a flower and in the morning room. I want a 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.040 morning and library and a flower room to put all 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:31.960 my flowers in. I mean I walked away from there 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:38.119 being like, should I have tea time? When when they 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.200 go to London, they're like, oh it's five oh seven, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.159 we should wait for their tea time to be over. 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:47.160 I'm like, like on the dot these Brits. I Um. 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.440 The thing that I wanted to point out a little 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.000 bit towards what you're saying is like, there is a 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:57.320 very what's the asymmetrical relationship between Max and the second 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.399 Mrs de Winter that I think, um, the narrator dozen 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.399 very subtle ways, which is what reminded me of Phantom 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.800 Thread because the relationship is uneven. But again in the book, 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.760 she is a teenager or twenty two? Is she? I 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:15.280 think she's twenty two? They never and specifically say no, no. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:18.520 That's why I was like, what's she a teenager? What 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.000 she was talking out? Lad? I know she was not older? 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.040 I think, okay, so nineteen. I think she said she 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.440 was nineteen. Yeah, so she's nineteen. He's in his forties. 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.959 He is of the landed gentry, and she is an 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:35.640 orphan nobody. So it's like all these factors combined put 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.520 her in a very vulnerable position to not speak up 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.119 in situations where she absolutely should speak up. Well, but 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.040 she has the beginning that she's going she's going to 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.680 Lady House and she's going to entertain people, and people 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.919 will come down from London to see her, and um, 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.560 I don't think she realizes until she gets there that 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.640 she's not in a position in life where the going 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.560 that that is an insurd fantasy, like imagining I'm going 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:08.639 to build a house on the moon. She just doesn't 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.800 know the details of how to manifest that, even if 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.520 she has the external trappings. Yeah, and it's clear that, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.080 like Maxim, didn't know how to do that either, Rebecca 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:23.639 make that house. Rebecca was born with a huge amount 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.840 of confidence, uh, seemingly giving free reign by Danny, who 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:34.920 raised her and um turned Manderly into this terrific show 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:40.480 palace with beautiful gardens and amazing parties and interesting people. 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.760 And all she asked for in return was the freedom 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:48.479 to funk around. They had a very clear arrangement, I 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.119 will give you the most beautiful house in the world, 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:58.160 let me funk people in London. Yeah. Yeah, my first cousin. Okay, 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:03.240 really interesting to me because I I had always read 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:07.639 this assuming that Daphne saw herself as the second Mrs 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.520 the Winter, because all I knew about the author was 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.160 that she was very shy and she ended up buying 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.880 the estate that I think is called Mandabilly that inspired man, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.000 So good for her. That's all I knew about her 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.720 until I started reading more about her. She was a 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.320 bisexual who had lesbian affairs, and also she fought her 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:32.120 first cousin so and wrote about it in her memoirs. 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.919 So I did not realize the extent to which the 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.080 author maybe saw herself in Rebecca when certainly when I 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.000 first read this book. Just to be clear, though, Rebecca 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.880 definitely had some sort of sexual experience with Mrs Danver's right. 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.440 Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's that's what I thought to think. 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:58.160 So I think Mrs has raised her her mom. Yeah, 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:02.359 I thought she was the mother, like the mother died 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:08.200 early and she raised her. That's mother daughter thing. Yeah. 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.840 But also like I think, especially when we watched the version, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:18.960 the sexual element there, but felt like maybe if they 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:24.000 didn't sleep together, then Danny Danvers wanted to for sure 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:29.760 wanted to. Yes, yeah, yeah, I also just love like 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:32.000 it makes the whole thing makes me really want to 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:36.760 meet Rebecca because she is such a charming person but 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.720 also clearly a sociopath, Like like the way she's described 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.119 like she's able to reflect back whatever someone is is 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:47.919 she is telling them and is able to like figure 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.119 out what people want and give it to them and 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.719 has no feeling for anyone. I'm like, oh, there's just 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.199 like this is like a textbook sociopath, and I just 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:59.680 think it's so like it doesn't make her, it doesn't 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.359 make her villain. It just makes her so interesting to me, 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.159 Like she's just like a very successful sociopath. Okay, I 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:07.800 don't know that that's necessarily for them, because we're getting 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:13.480 that whole perspective from maxim shot No, from Danny. Perspective 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.480 is maybe partly she was only ever able to love 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.359