WEBVTT - How to read the classics, with Emily Kwilinski 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.760 Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.360 This episode is going to be a longer one part 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.560 of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.400 they take their days from great to awesome and any 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.239 advice they have for the rest of us. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:27.600 So today I am delighted. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.400 To welcome Emily Kolenski to the show. She's done a 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.479 lot of different things in her career, but today she 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.640 is mostly going to talk with us about reading the classics, 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.239 which is something I know a number of listeners are 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.360 definitely interested in. So Emily, welcome to the show. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.200 Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. Yeah. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:45.760 So, Emily, why don't you tell us a little bit 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:46.440 about yourself? 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.320 Sure? Yeah. So I finished my PhD in Theology, the 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.239 Imagination and the Arts in twenty twenty three. I went 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.240 to the University of Saint Andrews, so I got to 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.800 do a lot of wandering along the beaches in Scotland. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.840 And nowadays I am the engaging editor at Verly Magazine, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:03.920 but I still do a lot of reading and I 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.119 was recently at Read with Me, which is a program 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.320 for reading the classics. It's kind of guided program, so 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.480 it's definitely a passion of mine, and I do a 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.320 lot of reading on the side, and then I also 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.960 have a substack I write about Shakespeare and culture, so 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.640 that's how I've continued my intellectual life on the side. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.840 Excellent, excellent, I guess so you got to explore a 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.920 lot of Shakespeare while you were living in the UK, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.720 for sure, So first I wanted to start talking. The 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.360 first question is how busy people can make time to 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.319 read in general. I mean, what are some of your 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.200 strategies for doing that? 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.000 Yeah, definitely. I think that one of the most important 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.240 things I want to communicate to busy people is that 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.920 audiobooks are still books. And I actually saw something recently 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.120 on substack which was so true, which is that audiobooks 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.720 are actually the most traditional way to read books, Like 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.280 we used to all just sit around and listen to 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.480 one another tell stories like the Iliot and the Odyssey, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.560 where like audio. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.640 Books, a lot people were seeing Shakespeare performed like they 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.160 weren't reading Shakespeare, they were watching a play. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.600 Yeah. Yes, And that's actually one of my big soapboxes 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.320 about Shakespeare is that if you tried to read Shakespeare 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.120 off the page and you didn't like it. Of course 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.080 you didn't like it. That's not a good way to 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:16.840 do it. You know, when I was writing on Shakespeare, 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.679 I watched every single you know, film and stage adaptation 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.160 I could possibly get my hands on. I don't even 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.600 know that I sat down and read Hamlet cover to 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.800 cover besides when I did it in high school, because 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.440 it's meant to be performed. So that's how you want 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.320 to do Shakespeare. And then I also think one of 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.600 your points that you make in Tranquility by Tuesday is 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.840 a really good point as far as reading goes, which is, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:39.800 if you have a book that you want to read 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:41.480 and you have other ways you want to spend your 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.720 leisure time, just say, hey, if I read twenty pages 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.880 of a Tale of Two Cities, I can then go 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.880 scroll on my phone or do whatever I want, and 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.640 you'll be surprised how far you get with just that 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:53.280 little step. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.080 Absolutely, there's all sorts of bits of time through the 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.480 day that are available for reading if we want to 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.040 use them. So I'm sure you and I are both 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.840 big fans of reading anything, But is there something in 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.240 particular to be well? First of all, What is a 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.320 classic you're talking about we're reading the classics? 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:13.320 What is a classic? 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.000 That's a really good question. I think that the way 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.240 I understand the classic is just a work that's, you know, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.520 undergone the test of time. So it's something that's I 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.000 don't want to give an arbitrary cuff, but maybe more 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.280 than one hundred years old that people have really found 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.600 richness in over a period of years. What it's not 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.680 is an inherently challenging book, and I think that's a 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.080 mistake people make when they think about the classics. They're like, 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.840 it has to be hard and I have to hate 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.400 reading it, or it's not the classics, and then they say, well, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.920 why aren't I reading more classics the books that I hate? 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.920 You know. So I think something that's been helpful for 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.440 me is to, especially if you're just getting started, start 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.960 with children's classics. Start with things like The Secret Garden 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.160 or A Little Princess that we have generations of readers 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.080 have enjoyed, so you know, there's a lot of value there. Basically, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.840 I think the classics are just people over the years 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.520 have found these to be deeply moving and powerful books 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.280 that have changed their lives, and that should be the 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.320 cut off, not how challenging it is for you to read. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.520 And is there anything particularly beneficial then with attempting to 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.520 read these? I mean, why should someone add classics to 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.000 their list if they're the sort of person who's already 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.119 you know, reading a lot of the good news stuff 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:25.200 that comes out these days. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.360 Yeah. I think that's what I find when I read 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.360 the classics is that they have with stood this test 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.919 of time for a reason. And it's often there's a 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.280 lot of really great contemporary literature, but it's sometimes hard 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.880 to judge what's going to really change your life or 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.320 really move you because there's so much there. And I 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.600 actually I would love to hear you interview someone about 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.920 contemporary literature because I don't usually know where to start there. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.280 But I know that if I dig into say a 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.880 Charles Dickens or a Jane Austen, that's going to have 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.840 really moved someone changed someone's life before I got there, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:04:59.960 and that means that has a good chance of changing mine. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:05.000 Excellent, Excellent, And you mentioned that some of the more 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.440 accessible titles you mentioned using children's literature as a way 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.000 to get in that. I'm sure many people have fond 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 memories of say, reading Little House in the Big Woods 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.920 or something with their parents when they. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:15.360 Were growing up. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.040 I wonder if you could give me a few more 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.400 other accessible titles if somebody's new to this, what they 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:22.200 might start with. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.599 Sure. Yeah, So Francis Hodjet Burnett is one of my 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.840 favorite authors. She's the one who did a Little Princess 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.479 in a Secret Garden. She also has some lesser known 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.800 books like The Lost Prince is really really excellent. It's 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:35.560 almost out of print, it's kind of hard to find. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.280 I love this writer called Rumored Godden. She wrote a 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.040 book called An Episode of Sparrows. She writes for a 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.960 span of younger audiences into older audiences. She has a 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.039 very moving book called In This House of Breed that 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.200 some of your listeners might have read. She is a 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.160 good place to start as well. And then I personally 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.440 love C. S. Lewis pretty much anything that he's written. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.360 And let's see what else. Oh yeah, also very passionate 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.920 about the Ann of Green Gables books. I think people 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.480 don't always think of those as classics classics because they're 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.960 a little bit more recent and they're not super challenging, 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.440 but they've been read over the years and so loved 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.000 for so many reasons. And they really do have this 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.320 tendency that a lot of older books for children do, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.080 which is they grow with the reader. So you start 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:22.840 with Ant of Green Gables, you could read that when 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.400 you're like ten or twelve, and the books go all 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.040 the way through when Anne's children are in the war, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.680 So they become increasingly deep and increasingly like ready to 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.359 accompany you know, women through the stages of their lives. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.640 And I think that's something we don't always realize that 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:37.960 there's more to dig into with those. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.520 Yeah, and say CS Lewis isn't isn't quite thee hundred 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:42.000 year mark? 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:42.520 Is he yet? 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.120 Yeah? See, this is why I say I don't really 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.479 want to cut something off. You know, it could be 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:49.080 and it could. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.240 Be a classic still, although at about it, I mean 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.480 World War two eras stuff is still a while ago. Now, Yeah, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.400 we're not talking recent and if generations have read it 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.200 since then, then then maybe that's are qualified. Well, We're 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.760 going to take a quick ad break and then I 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:12.400 will be back with more with Emily. Well, I am 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.440 back with Emily Kolinski. We are talking about reading the classics, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.560 so books that have stood the test of time and 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.960 why we should include those in our TBR lists. So 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.080 you said there are some that are definitely more accessible, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.440 but I will say that there is a difference that 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.320 I have noticed when I have attempted to read books 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.360 that are over one hundred years old, even ones that 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.800 seem fairly readable, like you know, I'll throw out there 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.040 for Moby Dick, who people assume that must be like 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.720 some ridiculous, dense thing, and it's actually quite entertaining. But 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.600 these people were writing before there was cable, before there 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.440 was you know, an internet that could grab your attention quickly. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:01.600 So my experience is that sometimes things move a little slower. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.400 They might be lengthier than you were planning on. The 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.280 sentences might be a little longer because again, you were 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.240 filling people's entertainment time. 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.120 Have you experienced any of this as well. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.000 Definitely. Yeah, that's a really good point and something that 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.000 that brings to mind for me is part of the 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.200 reason why some of the books that I recommend, even 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.920 the children's books, are more recent, is because it's easier 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.800 to read more recent books because they have more in 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.280 common with our syntax. But I do think in my 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.640 experience of reading things by Saint Dickens or Austin or 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.120 even going back to Shakespeare. Once you've kind of unlocked 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.760 this dialogue pattern and you have time in a big 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.880 book like Moby Dick, it becomes a lot smoother. But 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.240 it does take time to kind of acclimate yourself to 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.840 that sound because it is still English. It's just it 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.800 takes a lot to kind of get over that initial hump. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.080 So I guess the word of encouragement I would have 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.400 is the more you read them, the easier it will gets. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.840 And probably the trick is not to over exert yourself 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.800 at the beginning. You know, if you jump right in 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.720 with a rough translation of Anna Karena No, you're going 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:13.640 to get really discouraged. Or just read it slowly though, right, Yes, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:14.480 that's true too. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.600 I mean, is that is that a technique you would suggest, Like, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.160 don't try to read it all like as your only book, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.400 for you know you're reading for two weeks. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.160 Like to spread it out over a longer period of time. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.480 And I think that's a good point too. It's helpful 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.760 to have a more challenging book and a less challenging 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.160 book that you're reading so that you have that habit 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.520 of reading. But you don't feel like the choice is 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.160 between you slogging your way through this tone and you 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.040 scrolling on your phone, because you're going to pick scrolling 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.240 on your phone, versus if you say, okay, well I'm 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.199 going to treat myself and read something a little bit easier, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.280 you're still getting into that practice of picking up a 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:49.960 book and reading. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.000 Yeah, okay, so that's it. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.160 So we're going to balance the older stuff maybe with 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.880 the newer and more accessible stuff. I mean, do we 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.439 have to learn to sort of like increase our level 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.199 of attention. I think there's something to that as well. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.000 I think we do, and I think that is another 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.720 reason to read the classics. Like obviously they're good to 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.480 read on their own, but I also think they train 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.360 us to pay more attention and to read more slowly, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.800 and to read with you know, this attention to detail 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.280 that we don't always have, especially when you're scrolling online. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.199 There are some terrifying statistics about how people read articles online. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.920 For anyone who writes articles online, they skim the first 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:27.400 like five. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.320 They're not reading your article, they're not creating your article. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.800 They're they're skimming the first lines. They're scrolling to the 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.439 bottom and they're reading the end, and you really can't 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.360 do that with a classic. You're going to miss something. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.960 And I even to this day, we'll find myself saying, Okay, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.840 well I read that paragraph, but I didn't really really 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.360 read it. I need to go back and take another 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.880 look at it. And instead of seeing that as a failure, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:49.920 I think it's helpful to say, oh, this is a 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.480 good moment for me to practice paying attention. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.400 Yeah, well, that whole TLDR too long, didn't read. I 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.760 mean the number of things I've seen that applied to 0:10:58.840 --> 0:10:59.920 that are actually quite short. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:00.959 That's like, well you. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.080 Probably you probably could have read it if you wanted to. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.120 Well after out here at sag Jashtin, some longtime listeners 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.440 have heard me talk about this. I have tried to 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.240 read longer works, just a couple pages at a time, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.480 spread out over the course of many months, maybe even 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.960 a year. I read through Warren Peace that way. It 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.360 has three hundred and sixty one very very short chapters. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.480 So you know, you can read four pages of Tolstoy. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.760 Fourteen hundred pages of Tolstoy is a lot, but if 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.440 you only do four pages a day, you will get 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.480 through it in a year. I'm currently doing anacarin Ina 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.880 that way, say, I'm doing a chapter at a time, 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.880 and you definitely do see details that you would have 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.520 missed because I read through both of those books fairly 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.520 quickly at other stages of my life. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:43.880 I think just trying to get through them. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.720 I maybe I had to get through them forget reading 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.960 for school. But you know, you missed the little the 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.440 little details, and then you go back and you're like, oh, yeah, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:53.400 oh that was in there. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.079 Oh I didn't see that totally. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.640 That's really inspiring because Warren Piece, to be honest with you, 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.400 is still on my list and I haven't done it, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.160 but that's the best way to do it probably is 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:03.600 just one chapter at a time. 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:05.440 Well, what is on your list? 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.400 Like, what are some classics that you're hoping to take 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:08.480 on that you haven't yet. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.480 Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, warm pieces Actually, I 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.360 think toward the top, I am part of the way 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.679 through a Tale of Two Cities right now, which is 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.880 really good and also really challenging. I've found like a 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.000 lot of these books, you just don't expect them to 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.840 be funny, and they're just hilarious. Like Tale of Two 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.800 Cities is so funny, let's see what else am I 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.240 trying to read. I'm going to look at my bookshelf 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.280 because I've got I've got them kind of lined up. 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.000 Oh really, you have all just makes it. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.880 Sound more organized than what I have. I have a 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:41.959 lot of books that I've bought that I haven't read. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.760 That seems a little bit more accurate I've been. Yeah, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.200 I have. I have my warm piece copy right here. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.120 Yeah, as it's standing out big. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.240 Still working my way through Virginia Wolf. I think that 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.880 the goal that I have, probably for the next couple 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.280 of years is to read some of the classic like 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.800 Earnest time Way, William Faulkner, that kind of writing, because 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.080 I really missed in my education. I did a lot 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.120 of kind of the Turn of the century like or 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.640 Victorian stuff, and I've done a lot of Shakespeare, and 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.280 I haven't actually gotten into what again is completely breaking 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.520 my one hundred year cut off, the more contemporary American literature. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.920 There's a lot of really good American stuff that I 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:24.960 just have not been able to get into. Yeah. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.240 Well, something like Virginia Woolf is such a mix because 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:28.880 some of it is so accessible and some of it 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.960 is completely not Ye all she really kind of ran 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.560 the gamut there of it. And you know, I love 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.040 reading to the Lighthouse, like I try to read it 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.800 like once a year, and then I made myself get 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.840 through the Waves once and I'm like one. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:44.640 Never again. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.280 It's so impressionistic, you know. And yes, that's why I 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.720 do gravitate towards some of the Victorian or Russian stuff, 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.360 because there tends to be a linear story that I 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.040 can sink my teeth into and I want to come 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.440 back and find out what happens next. And the Waves 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.800 is like all over the place. But it's such a 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.880 cool impressionistic way of writing. So all right, I. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.400 Will think of it as like seeing a Monet painting 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.560 and set So Emily, do you track your reading? Do 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.640 you write down? And do you take notes on what 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.560 you've been reading? I'm curious your approach there. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.400 Yeah, that's interesting that you should ask, because I just recently, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.560 probably a couple of months ago, got on good Reads 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.240 and I have loved it. I wouldn't. I didn't really 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.320 expect that I would find it interesting. I don't really 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.520 like social media overall, but I found a bunch of 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.920 friends from college who are avid readers and just having 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.240 that little way to track you know, what I'm reading, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.320 how far I am in these books, and then have 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.320 people kind of cheer you on. And I've noticed I get, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.480 you know, on my updates. I also read a lot 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.800 of self help and so you know my updates on 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.560 the self help books. People are kind of like, take 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.320 or leave it. But if I say, you know, I 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.440 finished the mill on the flow, so everyone's like yay, 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.440 So you get kind of you get a positive affirmation 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.760 feedback loop there. So that's pretty much all I do 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.960 to track. I definitely am a planning tracking type of person, 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.040 So I'm sure I've had things like bullet journal spreads 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.240 and stuff like that in the past. But the fact 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.600 is that by the time I went to trek the book, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.520 I probably already didn't have the list. I really admire 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.560 people who have you tracked all the books they've read 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.840 in one notebook, But I'm not organized snuff for that. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.840 Yeah. Yeah, but when you were doing your PhD, I 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:21.720 mean I guess like as you were going I mean, 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.680 were you literally like going through each of the Shakespearean 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.360 plays or I mean, like, what was the approach to 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:28.120 reading there? 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.520 Yeah, the PhD was interesting and grad school in general 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.680 was interesting because it's really just such a different mode 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:39.240 of reading. You can't I definitely just immersed myself in 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.640 the plays, mostly in the sound like I would listen 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.440 to the plays over and over, I would watch them, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.680 and that was kind of my primary source material. But 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.840 then as far as the secondary sources, there's just so 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.440 much that you really have to skim and pull. So 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.280 what I ended up with was just this giant Google 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.520 doc of passages from different stuff that I'd read, and 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.440 then I was able to go in and pull that out. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.280 I went through a while where I was I'd read something, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.520 I'd pull a bunch of quotes, and then i'd write 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.400 up a summary of you know what this is, what 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.440 this is doing for me where it does in the literature. 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.960 And that ended up, though it doesn't sound, you know 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.520 that romantic, and ended up being super practical and probably 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.320 more practical than doing some long hand note taking, which 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:18.520 I did a little bit of as well. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:19.360 Excellent. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.120 All right, Well we're going to take one more quick 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.800 bad break and then I'll be back with more from 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.920 Emily Kolinsky on reading the classics. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:32.760 Well, we are back. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.920 I've been talking with Emily Kolinski, who has a PhD 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.160 in Shakespeare topics. You know about reading the classics, and 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.760 so I'm very curious. We talk a lot about daily 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.520 routines on this show. Do you have any daily routines 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.000 that help make you more productive? 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.880 That's a great question, so I'm very influenced by you. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.080 So I do enjoy time blocking. For quite a while, 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.600 I was planning on Fridays out for the next week, 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.760 and nowadays because I just occasionally can't sleep that well, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.520 I've found that tracking my sleep amount and then writing 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.080 up in the morning a realistic schedule for myself has 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.280 worked the best. So usually I reserve morning hours for writing. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.880 It's my best thinking time. And when I just when 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:17.640 I wake up or when I'm starting my day, I'll 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.520 lay out, you know, this is how much sleep I got, 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.440 So this is the level at which I can expect 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.200 myself to be functioning. And then I try to block 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.240 out morning hours for writing. I take a break and 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.000 then I do email, you know, administrative stuff, posting that 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.560 kind of thing in the afternoon, and that's worked well 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.800 for me lately. I do think that as far as 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.240 a reading habit goes in my day, I one of 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.040 my biggest influences is my grandmother who always, always, always 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.399 has a book. She'll be like, I need to go 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.359 read my book, and she does a lot of that 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.240 late at night, so she'll, you know, the end of 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.000 the day, she sits in bed and she reads. So 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.560 on an ideal day, I sit in bed and I 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.639 read at the end of the day. If it's not 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.719 an ideal day, I try to take my book with 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.960 me where I go and kind of like we were 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.639 saying earlier about the just you know, making it easier 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.040 to do slightly higher effort stuff. If you bring your 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.960 book with you everywhere you have your phone, then that 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.080 option is at least available. And if I'm in the 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.560 dentist office or I'm you know, waiting in the car 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.560 wash line or something like that, I can choose to 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.240 read the book. And if I'm not choosing to read 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.840 the book, I know that it's intentional. So that's something 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.919 that's kind of helpful when I need to flex my 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:24.560 routine a bit. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.440