1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: Good Morning, This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: This episode is going to be a longer one part 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: they take their days from great to awesome and any 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: advice they have for the rest of us. 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: So today I am delighted. 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: To welcome Emily Kolenski to the show. She's done a 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: lot of different things in her career, but today she 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: is mostly going to talk with us about reading the classics, 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: which is something I know a number of listeners are 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: definitely interested in. So Emily, welcome to the show. 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. Yeah. 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: So, Emily, why don't you tell us a little bit 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: about yourself? 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah. So I finished my PhD in Theology, the 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 3: Imagination and the Arts in twenty twenty three. I went 18 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 3: to the University of Saint Andrews, so I got to 19 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: do a lot of wandering along the beaches in Scotland. 20 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: And nowadays I am the engaging editor at Verly Magazine, 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: but I still do a lot of reading and I 22 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 3: was recently at Read with Me, which is a program 23 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 3: for reading the classics. It's kind of guided program, so 24 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 3: it's definitely a passion of mine, and I do a 25 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 3: lot of reading on the side, and then I also 26 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 3: have a substack I write about Shakespeare and culture, so 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: that's how I've continued my intellectual life on the side. 28 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, I guess so you got to explore a 29 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: lot of Shakespeare while you were living in the UK, 30 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: for sure, So first I wanted to start talking. The 31 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: first question is how busy people can make time to 32 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: read in general. I mean, what are some of your 33 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: strategies for doing that? 34 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I think that one of the most important 35 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: things I want to communicate to busy people is that 36 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: audiobooks are still books. And I actually saw something recently 37 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: on substack which was so true, which is that audiobooks 38 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: are actually the most traditional way to read books, Like 39 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: we used to all just sit around and listen to 40 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: one another tell stories like the Iliot and the Odyssey, 41 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: where like audio. 42 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: Books, a lot people were seeing Shakespeare performed like they 43 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: weren't reading Shakespeare, they were watching a play. 44 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, And that's actually one of my big soapboxes 45 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: about Shakespeare is that if you tried to read Shakespeare 46 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 3: off the page and you didn't like it. Of course 47 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 3: you didn't like it. That's not a good way to 48 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 3: do it. You know, when I was writing on Shakespeare, 49 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 3: I watched every single you know, film and stage adaptation 50 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: I could possibly get my hands on. I don't even 51 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: know that I sat down and read Hamlet cover to 52 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: cover besides when I did it in high school, because 53 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: it's meant to be performed. So that's how you want 54 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 3: to do Shakespeare. And then I also think one of 55 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: your points that you make in Tranquility by Tuesday is 56 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: a really good point as far as reading goes, which is, 57 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: if you have a book that you want to read 58 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: and you have other ways you want to spend your 59 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: leisure time, just say, hey, if I read twenty pages 60 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: of a Tale of Two Cities, I can then go 61 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: scroll on my phone or do whatever I want, and 62 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: you'll be surprised how far you get with just that 63 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 3: little step. 64 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's all sorts of bits of time through the 65 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: day that are available for reading if we want to 66 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: use them. So I'm sure you and I are both 67 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: big fans of reading anything, But is there something in 68 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: particular to be well? First of all, What is a 69 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: classic you're talking about we're reading the classics? 70 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: What is a classic? 71 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I think that the way 72 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 3: I understand the classic is just a work that's, you know, 73 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: undergone the test of time. So it's something that's I 74 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: don't want to give an arbitrary cuff, but maybe more 75 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: than one hundred years old that people have really found 76 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 3: richness in over a period of years. What it's not 77 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 3: is an inherently challenging book, and I think that's a 78 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: mistake people make when they think about the classics. They're like, 79 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 3: it has to be hard and I have to hate 80 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: reading it, or it's not the classics, and then they say, well, 81 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: why aren't I reading more classics the books that I hate? 82 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: You know. So I think something that's been helpful for 83 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: me is to, especially if you're just getting started, start 84 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: with children's classics. Start with things like The Secret Garden 85 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: or A Little Princess that we have generations of readers 86 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: have enjoyed, so you know, there's a lot of value there. Basically, 87 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: I think the classics are just people over the years 88 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: have found these to be deeply moving and powerful books 89 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: that have changed their lives, and that should be the 90 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: cut off, not how challenging it is for you to read. 91 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: And is there anything particularly beneficial then with attempting to 92 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: read these? I mean, why should someone add classics to 93 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: their list if they're the sort of person who's already 94 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 2: you know, reading a lot of the good news stuff 95 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: that comes out these days. 96 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's what I find when I read 97 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: the classics is that they have with stood this test 98 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 3: of time for a reason. And it's often there's a 99 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: lot of really great contemporary literature, but it's sometimes hard 100 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: to judge what's going to really change your life or 101 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: really move you because there's so much there. And I 102 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: actually I would love to hear you interview someone about 103 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: contemporary literature because I don't usually know where to start there. 104 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: But I know that if I dig into say a 105 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: Charles Dickens or a Jane Austen, that's going to have 106 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 3: really moved someone changed someone's life before I got there, 107 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: and that means that has a good chance of changing mine. 108 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: Excellent, Excellent, And you mentioned that some of the more 109 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: accessible titles you mentioned using children's literature as a way 110 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: to get in that. I'm sure many people have fond 111 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: memories of say, reading Little House in the Big Woods 112 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: or something with their parents when they. 113 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: Were growing up. 114 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: I wonder if you could give me a few more 115 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: other accessible titles if somebody's new to this, what they 116 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: might start with. 117 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, So Francis Hodjet Burnett is one of my 118 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 3: favorite authors. She's the one who did a Little Princess 119 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 3: in a Secret Garden. She also has some lesser known 120 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 3: books like The Lost Prince is really really excellent. It's 121 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 3: almost out of print, it's kind of hard to find. 122 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 3: I love this writer called Rumored Godden. She wrote a 123 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 3: book called An Episode of Sparrows. She writes for a 124 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: span of younger audiences into older audiences. She has a 125 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 3: very moving book called In This House of Breed that 126 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: some of your listeners might have read. She is a 127 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: good place to start as well. And then I personally 128 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: love C. S. Lewis pretty much anything that he's written. 129 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: And let's see what else. Oh yeah, also very passionate 130 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 3: about the Ann of Green Gables books. I think people 131 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: don't always think of those as classics classics because they're 132 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: a little bit more recent and they're not super challenging, 133 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: but they've been read over the years and so loved 134 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: for so many reasons. And they really do have this 135 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: tendency that a lot of older books for children do, 136 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: which is they grow with the reader. So you start 137 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 3: with Ant of Green Gables, you could read that when 138 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: you're like ten or twelve, and the books go all 139 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 3: the way through when Anne's children are in the war, 140 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 3: So they become increasingly deep and increasingly like ready to 141 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 3: accompany you know, women through the stages of their lives. 142 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: And I think that's something we don't always realize that 143 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: there's more to dig into with those. 144 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and say CS Lewis isn't isn't quite thee hundred 145 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: year mark? 146 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: Is he yet? 147 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? See, this is why I say I don't really 148 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 3: want to cut something off. You know, it could be 149 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: and it could. 150 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: Be a classic still, although at about it, I mean 151 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: World War two eras stuff is still a while ago. Now, Yeah, 152 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: we're not talking recent and if generations have read it 153 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: since then, then then maybe that's are qualified. Well, We're 154 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: going to take a quick ad break and then I 155 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: will be back with more with Emily. Well, I am 156 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: back with Emily Kolinski. We are talking about reading the classics, 157 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: so books that have stood the test of time and 158 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: why we should include those in our TBR lists. So 159 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: you said there are some that are definitely more accessible, 160 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: but I will say that there is a difference that 161 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: I have noticed when I have attempted to read books 162 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: that are over one hundred years old, even ones that 163 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: seem fairly readable, like you know, I'll throw out there 164 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: for Moby Dick, who people assume that must be like 165 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: some ridiculous, dense thing, and it's actually quite entertaining. But 166 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: these people were writing before there was cable, before there 167 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: was you know, an internet that could grab your attention quickly. 168 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: So my experience is that sometimes things move a little slower. 169 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: They might be lengthier than you were planning on. The 170 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: sentences might be a little longer because again, you were 171 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: filling people's entertainment time. 172 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: Have you experienced any of this as well. 173 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: Definitely. Yeah, that's a really good point and something that 174 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: that brings to mind for me is part of the 175 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: reason why some of the books that I recommend, even 176 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: the children's books, are more recent, is because it's easier 177 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 3: to read more recent books because they have more in 178 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: common with our syntax. But I do think in my 179 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 3: experience of reading things by Saint Dickens or Austin or 180 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: even going back to Shakespeare. Once you've kind of unlocked 181 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 3: this dialogue pattern and you have time in a big 182 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: book like Moby Dick, it becomes a lot smoother. But 183 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: it does take time to kind of acclimate yourself to 184 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: that sound because it is still English. It's just it 185 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: takes a lot to kind of get over that initial hump. 186 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 3: So I guess the word of encouragement I would have 187 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 3: is the more you read them, the easier it will gets. 188 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 3: And probably the trick is not to over exert yourself 189 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: at the beginning. You know, if you jump right in 190 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 3: with a rough translation of Anna Karena No, you're going 191 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: to get really discouraged. Or just read it slowly though, right, Yes, 192 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: that's true too. 193 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: I mean, is that is that a technique you would suggest, Like, 194 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: don't try to read it all like as your only book, 195 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: for you know you're reading for two weeks. 196 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: Like to spread it out over a longer period of time. 197 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: And I think that's a good point too. It's helpful 198 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: to have a more challenging book and a less challenging 199 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: book that you're reading so that you have that habit 200 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: of reading. But you don't feel like the choice is 201 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 3: between you slogging your way through this tone and you 202 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 3: scrolling on your phone, because you're going to pick scrolling 203 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 3: on your phone, versus if you say, okay, well I'm 204 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 3: going to treat myself and read something a little bit easier, 205 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: you're still getting into that practice of picking up a 206 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 3: book and reading. 207 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so that's it. 208 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: So we're going to balance the older stuff maybe with 209 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: the newer and more accessible stuff. I mean, do we 210 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 2: have to learn to sort of like increase our level 211 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 2: of attention. I think there's something to that as well. 212 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: I think we do, and I think that is another 213 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: reason to read the classics. Like obviously they're good to 214 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: read on their own, but I also think they train 215 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: us to pay more attention and to read more slowly, 216 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: and to read with you know, this attention to detail 217 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: that we don't always have, especially when you're scrolling online. 218 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 3: There are some terrifying statistics about how people read articles online. 219 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: For anyone who writes articles online, they skim the first 220 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 3: like five. 221 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: They're not reading your article, they're not creating your article. 222 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: They're they're skimming the first lines. They're scrolling to the 223 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 3: bottom and they're reading the end, and you really can't 224 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: do that with a classic. You're going to miss something. 225 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 3: And I even to this day, we'll find myself saying, Okay, 226 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: well I read that paragraph, but I didn't really really 227 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: read it. I need to go back and take another 228 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: look at it. And instead of seeing that as a failure, 229 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: I think it's helpful to say, oh, this is a 230 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: good moment for me to practice paying attention. 231 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that whole TLDR too long, didn't read. I 232 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: mean the number of things I've seen that applied to 233 00:10:58,840 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: that are actually quite short. 234 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: That's like, well you. 235 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: Probably you probably could have read it if you wanted to. 236 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: Well after out here at sag Jashtin, some longtime listeners 237 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: have heard me talk about this. I have tried to 238 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: read longer works, just a couple pages at a time, 239 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: spread out over the course of many months, maybe even 240 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 2: a year. I read through Warren Peace that way. It 241 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: has three hundred and sixty one very very short chapters. 242 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: So you know, you can read four pages of Tolstoy. 243 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: Fourteen hundred pages of Tolstoy is a lot, but if 244 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: you only do four pages a day, you will get 245 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: through it in a year. I'm currently doing anacarin Ina 246 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: that way, say, I'm doing a chapter at a time, 247 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: and you definitely do see details that you would have 248 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: missed because I read through both of those books fairly 249 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: quickly at other stages of my life. 250 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: I think just trying to get through them. 251 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: I maybe I had to get through them forget reading 252 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: for school. But you know, you missed the little the 253 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: little details, and then you go back and you're like, oh, yeah, 254 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: oh that was in there. 255 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: Oh I didn't see that totally. 256 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: That's really inspiring because Warren Piece, to be honest with you, 257 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: is still on my list and I haven't done it, 258 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: but that's the best way to do it probably is 259 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: just one chapter at a time. 260 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: Well, what is on your list? 261 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: Like, what are some classics that you're hoping to take 262 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: on that you haven't yet. 263 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, warm pieces Actually, I 264 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: think toward the top, I am part of the way 265 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 3: through a Tale of Two Cities right now, which is 266 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: really good and also really challenging. I've found like a 267 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 3: lot of these books, you just don't expect them to 268 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 3: be funny, and they're just hilarious. Like Tale of Two 269 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: Cities is so funny, let's see what else am I 270 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: trying to read. I'm going to look at my bookshelf 271 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 3: because I've got I've got them kind of lined up. 272 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: Oh really, you have all just makes it. 273 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: Sound more organized than what I have. I have a 274 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 3: lot of books that I've bought that I haven't read. 275 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: That seems a little bit more accurate I've been. Yeah, 276 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 3: I have. I have my warm piece copy right here. 277 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, as it's standing out big. 278 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: Still working my way through Virginia Wolf. I think that 279 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: the goal that I have, probably for the next couple 280 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: of years is to read some of the classic like 281 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: Earnest time Way, William Faulkner, that kind of writing, because 282 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: I really missed in my education. I did a lot 283 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 3: of kind of the Turn of the century like or 284 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: Victorian stuff, and I've done a lot of Shakespeare, and 285 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: I haven't actually gotten into what again is completely breaking 286 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: my one hundred year cut off, the more contemporary American literature. 287 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 3: There's a lot of really good American stuff that I 288 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: just have not been able to get into. Yeah. 289 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: Well, something like Virginia Woolf is such a mix because 290 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: some of it is so accessible and some of it 291 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: is completely not Ye all she really kind of ran 292 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: the gamut there of it. And you know, I love 293 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: reading to the Lighthouse, like I try to read it 294 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: like once a year, and then I made myself get 295 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: through the Waves once and I'm like one. 296 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: Never again. 297 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: It's so impressionistic, you know. And yes, that's why I 298 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: do gravitate towards some of the Victorian or Russian stuff, 299 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: because there tends to be a linear story that I 300 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: can sink my teeth into and I want to come 301 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: back and find out what happens next. And the Waves 302 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: is like all over the place. But it's such a 303 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: cool impressionistic way of writing. So all right, I. 304 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: Will think of it as like seeing a Monet painting 305 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: and set So Emily, do you track your reading? Do 306 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: you write down? And do you take notes on what 307 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: you've been reading? I'm curious your approach there. 308 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting that you should ask, because I just recently, 309 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 3: probably a couple of months ago, got on good Reads 310 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 3: and I have loved it. I wouldn't. I didn't really 311 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: expect that I would find it interesting. I don't really 312 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 3: like social media overall, but I found a bunch of 313 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: friends from college who are avid readers and just having 314 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: that little way to track you know, what I'm reading, 315 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: how far I am in these books, and then have 316 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: people kind of cheer you on. And I've noticed I get, 317 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: you know, on my updates. I also read a lot 318 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: of self help and so you know my updates on 319 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: the self help books. People are kind of like, take 320 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: or leave it. But if I say, you know, I 321 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: finished the mill on the flow, so everyone's like yay, 322 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 3: So you get kind of you get a positive affirmation 323 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: feedback loop there. So that's pretty much all I do 324 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 3: to track. I definitely am a planning tracking type of person, 325 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: So I'm sure I've had things like bullet journal spreads 326 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 3: and stuff like that in the past. But the fact 327 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: is that by the time I went to trek the book, 328 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: I probably already didn't have the list. I really admire 329 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: people who have you tracked all the books they've read 330 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: in one notebook, But I'm not organized snuff for that. 331 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but when you were doing your PhD, I 332 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 2: mean I guess like as you were going I mean, 333 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: were you literally like going through each of the Shakespearean 334 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: plays or I mean, like, what was the approach to 335 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: reading there? 336 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the PhD was interesting and grad school in general 337 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 3: was interesting because it's really just such a different mode 338 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: of reading. You can't I definitely just immersed myself in 339 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 3: the plays, mostly in the sound like I would listen 340 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: to the plays over and over, I would watch them, 341 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: and that was kind of my primary source material. But 342 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: then as far as the secondary sources, there's just so 343 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 3: much that you really have to skim and pull. So 344 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: what I ended up with was just this giant Google 345 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 3: doc of passages from different stuff that I'd read, and 346 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: then I was able to go in and pull that out. 347 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: I went through a while where I was I'd read something, 348 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: I'd pull a bunch of quotes, and then i'd write 349 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: up a summary of you know what this is, what 350 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: this is doing for me where it does in the literature. 351 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: And that ended up, though it doesn't sound, you know 352 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 3: that romantic, and ended up being super practical and probably 353 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: more practical than doing some long hand note taking, which 354 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: I did a little bit of as well. 355 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: Excellent. 356 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: All right, Well we're going to take one more quick 357 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: bad break and then I'll be back with more from 358 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 2: Emily Kolinsky on reading the classics. 359 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Well, we are back. 360 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: I've been talking with Emily Kolinski, who has a PhD 361 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: in Shakespeare topics. You know about reading the classics, and 362 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: so I'm very curious. We talk a lot about daily 363 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: routines on this show. Do you have any daily routines 364 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: that help make you more productive? 365 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 3: That's a great question, so I'm very influenced by you. 366 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: So I do enjoy time blocking. For quite a while, 367 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 3: I was planning on Fridays out for the next week, 368 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: and nowadays because I just occasionally can't sleep that well, 369 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: I've found that tracking my sleep amount and then writing 370 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 3: up in the morning a realistic schedule for myself has 371 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: worked the best. So usually I reserve morning hours for writing. 372 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 3: It's my best thinking time. And when I just when 373 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 3: I wake up or when I'm starting my day, I'll 374 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: lay out, you know, this is how much sleep I got, 375 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: So this is the level at which I can expect 376 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: myself to be functioning. And then I try to block 377 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: out morning hours for writing. I take a break and 378 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: then I do email, you know, administrative stuff, posting that 379 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: kind of thing in the afternoon, and that's worked well 380 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: for me lately. I do think that as far as 381 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: a reading habit goes in my day, I one of 382 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 3: my biggest influences is my grandmother who always, always, always 383 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 3: has a book. She'll be like, I need to go 384 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 3: read my book, and she does a lot of that 385 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: late at night, so she'll, you know, the end of 386 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: the day, she sits in bed and she reads. So 387 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 3: on an ideal day, I sit in bed and I 388 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 3: read at the end of the day. If it's not 389 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 3: an ideal day, I try to take my book with 390 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: me where I go and kind of like we were 391 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 3: saying earlier about the just you know, making it easier 392 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: to do slightly higher effort stuff. If you bring your 393 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 3: book with you everywhere you have your phone, then that 394 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: option is at least available. And if I'm in the 395 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 3: dentist office or I'm you know, waiting in the car 396 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: wash line or something like that, I can choose to 397 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: read the book. And if I'm not choosing to read 398 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: the book, I know that it's intentional. So that's something 399 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 3: that's kind of helpful when I need to flex my 400 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 3: routine a bit. 401 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: I love the image of you, like sitting there reading 402 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: Virginia Wolf in the car wash line. Yea, the waves exactly, 403 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: the waves that would be the place to do it. 404 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: In fact, so were saying you note how much sleep 405 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: you got, and then plan your day based on the 406 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: energy for that. Is there like a you know, six 407 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: hours equals x. I mean, do you have like an 408 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: actual formula for this. 409 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. I think that it depends. 410 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 3: I think I just mostly select what I'm going to 411 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 3: be working on. So I try to really say, you know, 412 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 3: if I have hours in the morning and I've managed 413 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 3: to stave off meetings, which usually I can, I just 414 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 3: try to keep everything to the afternoon, then I'm going 415 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: to expect some sort of writing out of myself. But 416 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 3: if I got say, yeah, usually it's about six hours. 417 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 3: If I get six hours, I'm fine. If I get 418 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 3: less than six hours, or I get six hours multiple 419 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: days in a row, the writing's just not going to 420 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 3: be good and I'm going to have to go back 421 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 3: and edit a lot. So I spend that time on 422 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 3: editing or brainstorming or taking walks and coming up with 423 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 3: other ideas. That kind of thing. 424 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, I like that. All right, Well that's a 425 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: smart tip. 426 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 2: Planning our day is based on how much sleep we 427 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: manage to get. So Emily, what is something you have 428 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: done recently to take a day from great to awesome. 429 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: That's a good question. My favorite thing to do, I 430 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 3: think for and it'll take a day from great to Austin. 431 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 3: It'll also take a day from bad to okay, or even. 432 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: Bad to okay. It's probably even more important. 433 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, my go to is just taking a walk, and 434 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: especially taking a walk. Sometimes I'll have to bribe myself, say, 435 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 3: you know, you can listen to a podcast to one 436 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: point of this walk, and then you're gonna have to 437 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 3: take your earbuds out and actually appreciate the silence. And 438 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: I always come back with a new perspective, new ideas, 439 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 3: especially when you're when you have a job like mine, 440 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 3: which is all about ideas. You those are the currency 441 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 3: of what you work with. And I if I'm sitting 442 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 3: in my house, I often just don't have any and 443 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 3: I always do if I take a walk, it'll just 444 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 3: turn around my whole mood. 445 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, big fan of walking over here. So what 446 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: are you looking forward to right now? 447 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. Well, my husband recently was 448 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: admitted to Harvard Law School, so we're moving to Harvard, 449 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 3: and I'm very excited about that. That's something that I'm 450 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 3: that I'm excited about. A little bit. Uh, it's going 451 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 3: to be a lot of work as well as far 452 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: as the. 453 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, move is always a lot of work. 454 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: Do you have a lot of books that are going 455 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: to have to move with you? 456 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: Yes, that's the one thing we decided not to downsize. 457 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: You know, we got to downsize a bunch of stuff, 458 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: but we're going to keep all of our keep all 459 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: of our books. What else am I looking forward to? 460 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to spring. I think we're so 461 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: close and you can really feel it. I'm in Michigan. 462 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 3: The days are getting longer and I'm starting to feel 463 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: like we turn to the corner. So I'm excited for 464 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: long summer days and all the inspiration that that brings. 465 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, wonderful. Yeah, I'm so eager for it as well. 466 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, it hasn't even been that bad winter, 467 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: and it's been somewhat snowy, but you know, it's still 468 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: there's that moment where you're like, yes, I know spring 469 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 2: is coming. It's coming now, So why don't you tell 470 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: listeners a little bit about where they can find you. Now, 471 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: you can mention what Verily magazine is for people. 472 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: Who might not know that. 473 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so Verily magazine is a women's magazine, and our 474 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 3: motto is less of who you should be, more of 475 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 3: who you are. So we were the first photoshop free 476 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 3: magazine for women, and it's focused on women's lifestyle content, 477 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 3: you know, the things that that we have questions about, 478 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: you know, the things that we're thinking about. There's beauty 479 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: and fashion, and there's also cultural commentary and movie reviews 480 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: and you know, all the pieces of a woman's life. 481 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 3: It's meant to be holistic and so you can find 482 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: that a fairly mag dot com. We're also on Instagram. 483 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 3: I've written a few things over the years and we've 484 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 3: we've had some really excited. Someone wrote actually recently on 485 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 3: pride and prejudice and marriage, so people who are interested 486 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: in the classics would enjoy that. And then you can 487 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: also find me on substack. I write sign No More, 488 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 3: which is on Shakespeare and culture. And I think that's 489 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: I think that's about it for the moment. 490 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: I am yeah, yeah, yeah, sign no More. So everyone 491 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 2: sigh as an s I g H. Correct, that's right. 492 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: It's a line from much ado by nothing and much 493 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: to do about nothing exactly. All right, Well, Emily, thank 494 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 2: you so much for joining us. And thanks to everyone 495 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 2: who's been listening. If you have feedback on this or 496 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: any other episode, you can always reach me at Laura 497 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 2: at Laura. 498 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: Vandercam dot com. 499 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: In the meantime, this is Laura, Thanks for listening, and 500 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for 501 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, 502 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: you can reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 503 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts 504 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 505 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.